Blue Owl Capital Inc (OWL) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Blue Owl Q4 2023 Conference Call. Please note that today's call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

早上好，歡迎參加 Blue Owl 2023 年第四季電話會議。請注意，今天的通話正在錄音。 （操作員說明）

I will now turn the call over to Ann Dai, Head of Investor Relations. You may begin your conference.

我現在將電話轉給投資者關係主管 Ann Dai。您可以開始您的會議了。

Thanks, operator, and good morning, everyone. Joining me today are Marc Lipschultz, Co-Chief Executive Officer; and Alan Kirshenbaum, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝接線員，大家早安。今天加入我的是聯合執行長馬克‧利普舒爾茨 (Marc Lipschultz)；和我們的財務長艾倫‧科申鮑姆 (Alan Kirshenbaum)。

I'd like to remind our listeners that remarks made during the call may contain forward-looking statements, which are not a guarantee of future performance or results and involve a number of risks and uncertainties that are outside the company's control.

我想提醒我們的聽眾，電話會議中的言論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述不是對未來業績或結果的保證，並且涉及許多公司無法控制的風險和不確定性。

Actual results may differ materially from those in forward-looking statements as a result of a number of factors, including those described from time to time in Blue Owl Capital's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The company assumes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements. We'd also like to remind everyone that we'll refer to non-GAAP measures on the call, which are reconciled to GAAP figures in our earnings presentation available on the Investor Resources section of our website at blueowl.com.

由於多種因素，包括 Blue Owl Capital 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中不時描述的因素，實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。該公司不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。我們也想提醒大家，我們將在電話會議中提及非 GAAP 衡量標準，這些衡量標準與我們網站 blueowl.com 投資者資源部分的收益演示中的 GAAP 數據進行了核對。

Please note that nothing on this call constitutes an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to purchase an interest in any Blue Owl funds.

請注意，本次電話會議中的任何內容均不構成任何 Blue Owl 基金權益的出售要約或購買要約邀請。

This morning, we issued our financial results for the fourth quarter and full year of 2023, reporting fee-related earnings, or FRE, of $0.20 per share for the fourth quarter and $0.70 per share for the year and distributable earnings, or DE, of $0.18 per share for the fourth quarter and $0.65 per share for the year.

今天上午，我們發布了2023 年第四季和全年的財務業績，報告第四季度的費用相關收益(FRE) 為每股0.20 美元，全年每股收益為0.70 美元，可分配收益(DE)為第四季每股 0.18 美元，全年每股 0.65 美元。

We declared a dividend of $0.14 per share for the fourth quarter payable on March 5 to holders of record as of February 23, and also announced an annual fixed dividend of $0.72 for 2024 or $0.18 per quarter, starting with our 2024 first quarter earnings. During the call today, we'll be referring to the earnings presentation, which we posted to our website this morning. So please have that on hand to follow along.

我們宣布將於3 月5 日向截至2 月23 日的記錄持有人支付第四季度每股0.14 美元的股息，並宣布從2024 年第一季收益開始，2024 年年度固定股息為0.72 美元，即每季0.18 美元。在今天的電話會議中，我們將提及今天早上發佈在我們網站上的收益報告。因此，請準備好該文件以便進行後續操作。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Marc.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉給馬克。

Great. Thank you, Ann. We finished 2023 on a strong note with another consecutive quarter of management fee and FRE growth, 11 for 11 since we've been a public company, against a market backdrop that has been exceptionally volatile and uncertain. We're confident that our steady, strong and resilient growth continues to differentiate Blue Owl and highlight the benefits of our business model.

偉大的。謝謝你，安。在異常波動和不確定的市場背景下，我們以強勁的表現結束了 2023 年，管理費和 FRE 又連續一個季度增長，自我們成為上市公司以來，管理費和 FRE 增長了 11 個季度。我們相信，我們穩定、強勁和有彈性的成長將繼續使 Blue Owl 脫穎而出，並突顯我們業務模式的優勢。

Over the past year, we've operated in an environment where the ongoing impact of higher interest rates and future rate uncertainty have constrained capital market activity and capital deployment. And exiting this year, the short-term path of interest rates, geopolitical risk levels and economic growth trends remain heavily debating. By design, Blue Owl's growth has been distinctly more predictable, which is very thesis from the beginning. Our assets are generally permanent capital and our earnings don't include more volatile revenues such as carry and substantial capital markets fees.

在過去的一年裡，我們的營運環境中，利率上升和未來利率不確定性的持續影響限制了資本市場活動和資本部署。從今年開始，利率的短期路徑、地緣政治風險水準和經濟成長趨勢仍存在激烈爭論。按照設計，藍貓頭鷹的成長明顯更可預測，這從一開始就是一個非常重要的論點。我們的資產通常是永久性資本，我們的收入不包括波動性較大的收入，例如利差和大量資本市場費用。

We strive to be market leaders in the segments in which we operate, and our growth has been supported by structural demand for our strategies and secular tailwinds for those markets. We strive to generate strong growth in periods where market conditions are favorable, like in 2021. But importantly, to be able to offer strong and differentiated growth in much tougher environments like 2022 and 2023. I think we have certainly done that. We grew FRE and DE 25% this past year, following over 40% growth in both metrics since 2022. In the last 2 years, AUM has increased by over 75% and the over $50 billion we've added in equity and fee eligible debt over that period, represents over 80% of our starting fee paying AUM. This robust growth has allowed us to return significant capital to our shareholders.

我們努力成為我們經營的細分市場的市場領導者，我們的成長得到了我們策略的結構性需求和這些市場的長期順風的支持。我們努力在市場條件有利的時期（例如2021 年）實現強勁成長。但重要的是，能夠在2022 年和2023 年等更嚴峻的環境中提供強勁且差異化的成長。我認為我們確實做到了這一點。自2022 年以來，我們的FRE 和DE 成長了40% 以上，去年我們的FRE 和DE 成長了25%。過去2 年，AUM 成長了75% 以上，我們的股本和費用合格債務增加了超過500 億美元在此期間，占我們支付的 AUM 起始費用的 80% 以上。這種強勁的成長使我們能夠向股東返還大量資本。

And today, we announced our annual fixed dividend for 2024 of $0.72 or $0.18 per quarter. This dividend represents a 29% step-up from 2023, which follows a 22% dividend increase from 2022. Since our listing in May of 2021, total return for our shareholders has been over 60%. These are impressive results in any market environment and much more so given the conditions that we've observed.

今天，我們宣布 2024 年的年度固定股利為 0.72 美元，每季 0.18 美元。此次股利較 2023 年增加 29%，此前股利較 2022 年增加 22%。自 2021 年 5 月上市以來，股東的總回報率已超過 60%。在任何市場環境下，這些結果都是令人印象深刻的，考慮到我們觀察到的條件，更是如此。

Well, there are a multitude of successes across the business that I'd love to highlight, I'll call out just a few that I think represent the advances we are making at Blue Owl. In spite of the very difficult backdrop for real estate fundraising, our latest triple net lease fund was the single largest U.S. real estate fund raised in 2023. We expect to exceed our hard cap of $5 billion, more than doubling the size of the predecessor fund. Furthermore, our overall real estate platform performed admirably on both the relative and absolute basis, returning 9% for the year.

嗯，我想強調一下整個行業的許多成功，我只列舉其中一些我認為代表我們在 Blue Owl 取得的進步的成功。儘管房地產融資面臨非常困難的背景，但我們最新的三重淨租賃基金是 2023 年籌集的美國最大的單一房地產基金。我們預計將超過 50 億美元的硬上限，是前代基金規模的兩倍多。此外，我們的整體房地產平台在相對和絕對基礎上都表現出色，全年回報率為 9%。

In GP stakes, we saw robust investor demand and deployment pipeline, resulting in an initial close of over $2 billion for our sixth GP minority equity stakes fund, earlier than originally anticipated and despite having just held our final close for Fund V at the end of 2022.

在GP 股權方面，我們看到了強勁的投資者需求和部署管道，導致我們的第六隻GP 少數股權基金的初始收盤額超過20 億美元，比最初預期的要早，儘管我們剛剛在2017 年末完成了基金 V 的最終收盤。2022 年。

In addition, we announced a joint venture with Lunate, an Abu Dhabi-based global alternative investment manager, to provide growth capital to leading midsized private capital GPs. This will supplement our dominant position as a capital provider to large GPs and we feel this partnership will create a powerful and differentiated proposition for mid-market managers.

此外，我們也宣布與總部位於阿布達比的全球另類投資管理公司 Lunate 成立合資企業，為領先的中型私人資本普通合夥人提供成長資本。這將補充我們作為大型普通合夥人的資本提供者的主導地位，我們認為這種合作夥伴關係將為中端市場管理公司創造強大且差異化的主張。

In private wealth, the resources we've invested into scaling the business continue to pay dividends with Blue Owl remaining a top fundraiser in both the non-traded BDC and rechannels. Gross flows from our perpetually offered products were $1.9 billion during the fourth quarter, 65% higher than the first quarter. Inflows have been 6x greater than redemption requests, both in the quarter and for the last 12 months, and we think we are just getting started as far as what's possible in wealth over time.

在私人財富領域，我們為擴大業務而投入的資源繼續帶來紅利，Blue Owl 仍然是非交易 BDC 和再管道方面的頂級籌款者。第四季我們永續產品的總流量為 19 億美元，比第一季高出 65%。無論是在本季度還是在過去 12 個月中，流入量均是贖回請求的 6 倍，我們認為隨著時間的推移，財富的增長才剛剛開始。

Finally, a couple of weeks ago, Blue Owl Capital Corporation III, or OBDE, successfully listed on the New York Stock Exchange, delivering liquidity to those investors as promised. OBDE is the second of our BDCs to become a publicly traded company, and this listing follows the remarkable 2023 results of our first publicly traded BDC, OBDC which returned 40% in 2023. Our focus remains on providing our direct lending investors flexibility and optionality through product structure while retaining the excellent credit quality, attractive income, downside protection and scale benefits that Blue Owl is known for.

最後，幾週前，Blue Owl Capital Corporation III（OBDE）成功在紐約證券交易所上市，並按照承諾為投資者提供了流動性。 OBDE 是我們第二家成為上市公司的BDC，此次上市是繼我們第一家上市BDC OBDC 2023 年取得驕人業績之後，OBDC 於2023 年實現了40% 的回報。我們的重點仍然是透過以下方式為直接貸款投資者提供靈活性和選擇性：產品結構，同時保留藍貓頭鷹聞名的卓越信用品質、有吸引力的收入、下行保護和規模效益。

Moving on to business performance. In credit, we again saw booming trends in deployment in the fourth quarter with a constructive environment so far in 2024. Repayments were somewhat elevated, providing additional opportunities to redeploy capital. As Alan will detail, direct lending metrics remain strong, with no notable changes to the health of our portfolio companies.

轉向業務績效。在信貸方面，我們在 2024 年迄今的建設性環境中再次看到第四季度部署的蓬勃發展趨勢。還款有所增加，為重新部署資本提供了更多機會。正如艾倫將詳細介紹的那樣，直接貸款指標仍然強勁，我們投資組合公司的健康狀況沒有顯著變化。

We remain at 6 basis points of annualized realized loss since inception, which has been more than offset by realized gains and the underlying revenue and EBITDA growth of the portfolio are robust at low double digits on average. We are well positioned to benefit from incremental sponsor-driven activity and growing market share.

自成立以來，我們的年化已實現虧損保持在 6 個基點，這已被已實現收益所抵消，而且投資組合的基本收入和 EBITDA 增長平均保持在低兩位數的強勁水平。我們處於有利地位，可以從贊助商推動的增量活動和不斷增長的市場份額中受益。

In our GP stakes business, we continue to witness the resilience of larger cap GPs with the market share gains of these managers accelerating during more challenging fundraising environments. This phenomenon has been consistent across asset classes. And combined with LPs continuing to allocate more to alternatives broadly translates to the impressive growth we have seen in our partner managers. In addition, we are witnessing a rising pace of consolidation across alternatives, further substantiating the value of scale in this industry and creating incremental tailwinds for the investments in our funds.

在我們的普通合夥人股權業務中，我們繼續見證大盤普通合夥人的韌性，這些管理人的市場份額在更具挑戰性的融資環境中加速增​​長。這種現像在各種資產類別中都是一致的。再加上有限合夥人繼續向替代品分配更多資金，我們在合作夥伴經理中看到了令人印象深刻的成長。此外，我們也看到各種替代方案的整合步伐不斷加快，進一步證實了該產業的規模價值，並為我們的基金投資創造了增量順風。

In real estate, we continue to actively deploy capital at attractive cap rates close to 8% and have consistently monetized at meaningful spreads to our entry points. The scale benefits of our triple net lease strategy allow us to offer attractive risk return for essentially investment-grade secured credit, and this has resonated well with our investors looking for steady income enhanced live appreciation potential.

在房地產領域，我們繼續以接近 8% 的有吸引力的上限利率積極部署資本，並始終以有意義的利差貨幣化我們的切入點。我們的三重淨租賃策略的規模效益使我們能夠為投資級擔保信貸提供有吸引力的風險回報，這與尋求穩定收入和增強即時升值潛力的投資者產生了良好的共鳴。

Our more recent real estate funds have invested heavily into the demand created by the onshoring movement. With geopolitical tensions and supply chain issues continuing to dominate headlines, companies have elevated onshoring to the top of their priority list. This trillion-dollar opportunity represents, in our view, not a moment in time, but a transformational manufacturing renaissance in the U.S. The capital needs driven by this theme, combined with more constrained capital availability at large have created a very strong pipeline into which we continue to deploy capital.

我們最近的房地產基金已大力投資於本土化運動所創造的需求。隨著地緣政治緊張局勢和供應鏈問題繼續成為頭條新聞，企業已將在岸外包列為首要任務。在我們看來，這個數萬億美元的機會代表的不是一個時刻，而是美國製造業的轉型復興。這個主題驅動的資本需求，再加上更有限的資本可用性，創造了一個非常強大的管道，我們可以將其納入其中。繼續佈局資本。

We're very pleased with the outcomes we've achieved across Blue Owl in 2023. Looking ahead, there are a number of growth avenues we are pursuing to supplement the expansion of our existing platforms. We intend to launch a strategy focused on triple net lease in Europe, driven by deal flow we already see today. Our strategic equity strategy held a first close and committed to its first investment during the fourth quarter, and we expect that we'll continue to expand our alternative credit strategy. And in addition to further expanding our institutional and wealth distribution, we continue to evaluate ways to partner with other large long-duration pools of capital, such as insurance. Generally, we intend to grow organically where we have institutional expertise and the conviction to grow into market leadership. And we will look to acquire where we can benefit from immediate scale and strategic positioning. I speak to the entire team in saying we are very excited about what lies ahead for the business, and there's a lot to look forward to.

我們對 Blue Owl 在 2023 年的成果感到非常滿意。展望未來，我們正在尋求多種成長途徑來補充現有平台的擴展。在我們今天已經看到的交易流的推動下，我們打算在歐洲推出一項專注於三重淨租賃的策略。我們的策略股權策略進行了首次交割，並承諾在第四季度進行首次投資，我們預計將繼續擴大我們的另類信貸策略。除了進一步擴大我們的機構和財富分配之外，我們還繼續評估與保險等其他大型長期資本池合作的方式。一般來說，我們打算在擁有機構專業知識和成長為市場領導者的信念的地方實現有機成長。我們將尋求收購可以從直接規模和策略定位中受益的領域。我對整個團隊表示，我們對業務的未來感到非常興奮，並且有很多值得期待的事情。

With that, let me please turn it to Alan to discuss our financial results.

接下來，請允許艾倫討論我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Marc. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. To start off, we are pleased with our fourth quarter and full year 2023 results. Marc mentioned this, but I'd like to reiterate that this is our 11th consecutive quarter of both management fee and FRE sequential growth, the only alternative asset manager that has demonstrated this over this period. And along with that, as we show on Slide 5, we've been able to grow our dividend 57% over the past 2 years, driven solely by recurring and growing management fees.

謝謝你，馬克。大家，早安。感謝您今天加入我們。首先，我們對第四季和 2023 年全年業績感到滿意。 Marc 提到了這一點，但我想重申，這是我們管理費和 FRE 連續第 11 個季度實現連續增長，是此期間唯一證明這一點的另類資產管理公司。除此之外，正如我們在投影片 5 中所示，在過去 2 年裡，我們的股息成長了 57%，這完全是由經常性和不斷增長的管理費所推動的。

Let's go through some of the key highlights of our 2023 results on a full year comparative basis. Management fees are up 26%, and 92% of these management fees are from permanent capital vehicles. FRE is up 25%, and our FRE margin is right on top of our 60% target, which we continue to expect to be the target for the next few years. And DE is up 25%. To double-click on this a little bit, as Marc mentioned earlier, we built our business with the intention of driving strong growth, not only during favorable market conditions, but more importantly, in tougher environments, like we've seen over the past year or so. And we believe the fact that we were able to generate 25-plus percent growth across these key metrics when peers on average generated low teens management fee growth and DE declines over the past year, is a testament to how we are proving out our model.

讓我們在全年比較的基礎上回顧一下 2023 年業績的一些主要亮點。管理費上漲26%，其中92%來自永久資本工具。 FRE 成長了 25%，我們的 FRE 利潤率恰好超出了 60% 的目標，我們仍然預計該目標將成為未來幾年的目標。 DE 上漲了 25%。雙擊這一點，正如馬克之前提到的，我們建立業務的目的是推動強勁增長，不僅是在有利的市場條件下，而且更重要的是，在更艱難的環境中，就像我們過去看到的那樣年左右。我們相信，去年，當同業平均管理費成長較低且 DE 下降時，我們能夠在這些關鍵指標上實現 25% 以上的成長，這一事實證明了我們如何證明我們的模型。

Now I'd like to spend a moment on our fundraising efforts. As you can see on Slide 12, we raised $6.2 billion in the fourth quarter and $15.8 billion for the full year. Inclusive of debt capital, we raised $25 billion in 2023. I'll break down the fourth quarter numbers across our strategies and products. In credit, we raised over $2.5 billion. This includes $1.9 billion raised in our diversified and first lien lending strategies with $1.2 billion raised in our non-traded BDC, OCIC, up 30% quarter-over-quarter.

現在我想花點時間談談我們的募款工作。正如您在幻燈片 12 中看到的，我們在第四季度籌集了 62 億美元，全年籌集了 158 億美元。包括債務資本在內，我們在 2023 年籌集了 250 億美元。我將詳細介紹我們的策略和產品的第四季度數據。我們透過信貸籌集了超過 25 億美元。其中包括透過我們的多元化和第一留置權貸款策略籌集的 19 億美元，以及透過我們的非交易 BDC、OCIC 籌集的 12 億美元，環比增長 30%。

The remainder was raised across software lending and our newly launched strategic equity strategy. In GP Strategic Capital, we had an initial close of $2.1 billion for our sixth minority equity stakes funds as well as over $400 million in a co-investment fund for this strategy. In real estate, we raised approximately $1.1 billion with over $650 million for the sixth vintage drawdown fund, which brings that fund to $4.7 billion and over $350 million in our nontraded REIT ORENT, up roughly 20% quarter-over-quarter. We are starting to see early signs of production coming from the distribution platforms that added ORENT in late 2023 and look forward to expanding our presence further on each, while also adding incremental platforms in 2024.

其餘部分則透過軟體貸款和我們新推出的策略股權策略籌集。在GP策略資本中，我們的第六隻少數股權基金的初始募集額為21億美元，該策略的聯合投資基金募集超過4億美元。在房地產領域，我們為第六期提款基金籌集了約11 億美元，其中超過6.5 億美元，這使得該基金達到47 億美元，我們的非交易REIT ORENT 籌集了超過3.5 億美元，環比增長約20%。我們開始看到 2023 年底添加 ORENT 的分銷平台產生的早期生產跡象，並期待進一步擴大我們在每個平台的業務，同時在 2024 年添加增量平台。

As Marc alluded to earlier, the over $50 billion of fee-paying AUM we have added since Jan 1, 2022, represents over 80% growth in our fee-paying AUM since the end of 2021. While that number is notable in it of itself, I have to emphasize that this is also AUM that is largely permanent capital, so these assets will stay in our system and be the next layer in our layer case.

正如Marc 之前提到的，自2022 年1 月1 日以來，我們的付費AUM 增加了超過500 億美元，這意味著自2021 年底以來，我們的付費AUM 增長了80% 以上。雖然這個數字本身就很引人注目，我必須強調，這也是 AUM，很大程度上是永久性資本，因此這些資產將保留在我們的系統中，並成為我們層案例中的下一層。

During the quarter, we raised $4.6 for every dollar that was paid out as a result of distributions or redemptions. For context, last quarter, our peers on average raised $1.7 for every dollar that was paid out. And in addition to the staying power of existing AUM and the benefit of ongoing fundraising, we have substantial embedded earnings that we will unlock over time. AUM not yet paying fees was $14.5 billion at December 31, corresponding to roughly $200 million of incremental annual management fees once deployed. Separately, we had also previously talked about another $200-plus million of incremental management fees that would turn on upon the listing of our private BDCs over time. And as many of you know, one of those BDCs did, in fact, list recently. OBDE's listing translates to approximately $80 million of that $200-plus million of additional annual management fees to Blue Owl.

在本季度，我們透過分配或贖回支付的每 1 美元籌集了 4.6 美元。就背景而言，上個季度，我們的同行平均每支付 1 美元籌集 1.7 美元。除了現有資產管理規模的持久力和持續籌款的好處之外，我們還擁有大量的嵌入收益，隨著時間的推移，我們將釋放這些收益。截至 12 月 31 日，尚未支付費用的 AUM 規模為 145 億美元，相當於部署後每年增加的管理費約 2 億美元。另外，我們之前也討論過另外 2 億多美元的增量管理費，隨著時間的推移，這些管理費將在我們的私人 BDC 上市時生效。正如你們許多人所知，事實上，其中一個 BDC 最近確實列出了。 OBDE 的上市相當於 Blue Owl 每年額外支付的 2 億多美元管理費中的約 8,000 萬美元。

Moving on to our credit platform. We had gross originations of $8.1 billion for the quarter and net funded deployment of $3.2 billion. This brings our gross originations for 2023 to $17.6 billion with $8.2 billion of net funded deployment. Our credit portfolio returned 4% in the fourth quarter and almost 18% in 2023. Weighted average LTVs remain in the low 40s across direct lending and in the low 30s, specifically in our software lending portfolio.

繼續我們的信用平台。本季我們的總發起額為 81 億美元，淨資金部署額為 32 億美元。這使得我們 2023 年的總發起額達到 176 億美元，淨資助部署額為 82 億美元。我們的信貸投資組合在第四季度的回報率為4%，到2023 年將接近18%。直接貸款的加權平均LTV 仍處於40 多歲的低位，特別是在我們的軟體貸款投資組合中，LTV仍處於30 多歲的低位。

For our GP Strategic Capital platform, total invested commitments for our fifth GP stakes fund, including agreements in principle or over $11 billion of capital with line of sight into over $2 billion of opportunities, which if all signs would bring us through the remaining capital available in Fund V. And performance across these funds remained strong with a net IRR of 24% for Fund III, 43% for Fund IV and 17% for Fund V, which compare favorably to the median returns for private equity funds of the same vintages.

對於我們的GP 策略資本平台，我們第五個GP 股權基金的總投資承諾，包括原則上的協議或超過110 億美元的資本，以及超過20 億美元的機會，如果所有跡像都表明我們將利用剩餘的可用資本這些基金的表現依然強勁，基金 III 的淨內部收益率為 24%，基金 IV 為 43%，基金 V 為 17%，與同期私募股權基金的中位數回報率相比相當不錯。

And in our real estate platform, deployment activity remains robust with over $600 million deployed during the quarter. And our pipeline of opportunities remains strong, with nearly $6 billion of transaction volume under letter of intent or contract to close. With regards to performance, we achieved gross returns across our real estate portfolio of 9% in 2023 comparing very favorably to the broader real estate market as a result of our distinctive net lease strategy and the timing of capital deployment. The net lease structure insulates our returns from the expense inflation that many are experiencing, while the long duration and contractual rent escalators on our leases shield our portfolio from the declining rent growth trends that others across the industry are seeing. And most of our recent funds were raised and are being deployed into a capital scarce environment, which presents attractive risk-adjusted opportunities.

在我們的房地產平台中，部署活動依然強勁，本季部署了超過 6 億美元。我們的機會管道依然強勁，根據意向書或合約完成的交易額接近 60 億美元。就業績效而言，由於我們獨特的淨租賃策略和資本部署時機，我們的房地產投資組合在 2023 年實現了 9% 的總回報，與更廣泛的房地產市場相比非常有利。淨租賃結構使我們的回報免受許多人正在經歷的費用通膨的影響，而我們租賃的長期和合約租金自動扶梯則使我們的投資組合免受業內其他人所看到的租金增長下降趨勢的影響。我們最近籌集的大部分資金都被部署到資本稀缺的環境中，這提供了一個有吸引力的風險調整機會。

Okay. I'd like to end with a couple of comments on tax rates and FRE margins to set the stage for 2024 and beyond. On taxes, the headline here is we expect our effective tax rate to be lower for longer. We saw the impact of various tax benefits, keeping our effective tax rate for 2023 at a low 2%. For 2024, we are currently expecting that rate to be in the mid-single digits, say, 5%. And for 2025, we expect a high single-digit effective tax rate. We will be making our first cash TRA payment in the first quarter of 2024, which should result in an elevated rate in the mid-teens, say, 15%. For that quarter alone, before stepping down in the subsequent 3 quarters to approximately 2%, averaging for 2024, the roughly 5% I just noted.

好的。最後，我想就稅率和 FRE 利潤率發表幾點評論，為 2024 年及以後奠定基礎。在稅收方面，這裡的標題是我們預計我們的有效稅率將在更長時間內保持較低水準。我們看到了各種稅收優惠的影響，將 2023 年的有效稅率保持在 2% 的低水平。到 2024 年，我們目前預計該比率將達到中個位數，例如 5%。到 2025 年，我們預計有效稅率將達到個位數的高水準。我們將在 2024 年第一季進行第一筆現金 TRA 付款，這將導致費率上升到十幾歲左右，例如 15%。僅就該季度而言，在接下來的 3 個季度下降至約 2% 之前，2024 年的平均值約為我剛才提到的 5%。

And on FRE margins, I've spoken frequently about our 60% FRE margins, which we feel very comfortable operating in the business for the next few years and is among the best in the industry. Let's talk a bit more about why this is the right level for us. We're putting very valuable R&D dollars back into the business, investing in the future so that we can continue to lead the industry in revenue growth. So for every follow-on product launch that helps us scale our business, like our sixth real estate funds or GP stakes fund, we have a new product we're launching like strategic equity or European net lease.

關於 FRE 利潤率，我經常談到我們 60% 的 FRE 利潤率，我們對未來幾年的業務運作感到非常滿意，並且是業內最好的之一。讓我們多談談為什麼這個級別適合我們。我們將非常寶貴的研發資金重新投入到業務中，投資於未來，以便我們能夠繼續引領產業的營收成長。因此，對於每一個有助於我們擴大業務規模的後續產品的推出，例如我們的第六個房地產基金或普通合夥人股權基金，我們都會推出一個新產品，例如戰略股權或歐洲淨租賃。

We're also putting those valuable R&D dollars into continuing to grow and expand our wealth and institutional fundraising efforts. All the while, we're not sacrificing growth for FRE margin. Our revenue and dividend growth is among the best in the industry.

我們也將這些寶貴的研發資金用於持續成長和擴大我們的財富和機構籌款活動。一直以來，我們都不會為了 FRE 利潤率而犧牲成長。我們的收入和股息成長在業界名列前茅。

With that, I'd like to thank everyone who has joined us on the call today. Operator, can we please open the line for questions?

在此，我要感謝今天加入我們電話會議的所有人。接線員，我們可以開通提問線嗎？

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from Glenn Schorr with Evercore.

（操作員說明）您的第一個問題來自 Evercore 的 Glenn Schorr。

So I love all the growth, and I love the outlook stuff. You're doing everything that you said you were going to do. I know we've talked about this before, but I like hearing it continue. Your confidence in Owl defending its big fee premium. You do get paid well for what you do. You are putting up good returns, but your fees are towards the high side of the peer group. So can we just talk through that a little bit?

所以我喜歡所有的成長，也喜歡前景的東西。你正在做你說過要做的一切。我知道我們之前已經討論過這個問題，但我喜歡聽它繼續下去。您對 Owl 捍衛其巨額費用溢價的信心。你所做的事情確實得到了豐厚的報酬。您獲得了良好的回報，但您的費用在同行中偏高。那我們可以稍微討論一下嗎？

Sure. Well, without sounding snarky at all, I mean, look, to a degree of property, you get what you pay for. I mean we are offering an exceptional result with exceptional performance. And we have, very importantly, when you look at the average fee rate, and you know this, we have always been focused on the quality of our AUM, the quality of what we take on. And so as we've talked about before, we really don't focus on gathering AUM because that is exactly how you drive your average fee rates down.

當然。好吧，聽起來一點也不刻薄，我的意思是，看，在某種程度上財產，一分錢一分貨。我的意思是，我們正在以卓越的性能提供卓越的成果。非常重要的是，當你查看平均費用率時，你就會知道這一點，我們一直關注我們的資產管理規模的質量，以及我們所承擔業務的質量。正如我們之前討論過的，我們實際上並不專注於收集資產管理規模，因為這正是降低平均費率的方法。

You can depend whether that's good, bad or otherwise, but the reality is that we focus on where we can generate really high value-added returns for investors and, therefore, high value, high fee income for Blue Owl. So at the end of the day, you can grow a lot of AUM at ever lower fees or you can say, look, what I'm going to do is I'm going to take lesser AUM, relatively speaking, and I'm going to deliver really high-value results on that and get paid for it.

你可以取決於這是好、壞還是其他，但現實是，我們專注於能夠為投資者創造真正高附加價值回報的地方，為 Blue Owl 帶來高價值、高費用收入。因此，最終，您可以以更低的費用增加大量 AUM，或者您可以說，看，我要做的就是相對而言，我將減少 AUM，而且我將為此提供真正高價值的成果並為此獲得報酬。

So I think we also look at the end of the day, our pioneering different strategies where we can add that value. And again, people are willing to pay for that appropriately so. Take tech, right? We were really very, very early with the idea of focusing on software lending. And I can remember Clear's Day and the number of people that said, "Well, why would you do that?" And sitting here today, again, I don't say that with any arrogance or anything. But I think at the end of the day, today, I was like, "Well, of course, software loans are where you want to be."

因此，我認為我們最終也會著眼於我們開拓的不同策略，以增加價值。再說一遍，人們願意為此付出適當的代價。拿技術來說吧？我們非常非常早就有了專注於軟體借貸的想法。我還記得 Clear's Day 以及有多少人說：“好吧，你為什麼要這麼做？”今天我再次坐在這裡，我並沒有帶著任何傲慢或任何態度這樣說。但我想，今天，我想，“好吧，當然，軟體貸款就是你想要的。”

Well, we started that years ago and have pioneered in that space. And so I think that's really the way we do it by having distinctive strategies, having really a direct angle on triple net lease when everybody else's real estate products are suffering this year. We have a thriving real estate product as a differentiated strategy. So that's really the heart and soul of it. But at the end of the day, we got to keep delivering value for our investors, delivering great results. We know that and we plan to.

嗯，我們幾年前就開始了這項工作，並在該領域處於領先地位。因此，我認為這確實是我們做到這一點的方式，透過採取獨特的策略，在今年其他所有人的房地產產品都受到影響時，對三重淨租賃採取真正的直接角度。我們擁有蓬勃發展的房地產產品作為差異化策略。這確實是它的核心和靈魂。但歸根結底，我們必須繼續為投資者創造價值，創造出色的業績。我們知道這一點，並且我們計劃這樣做。

Can you update us on timing on health care, given Cowen and this conversation? I would think that health care product is right in line with this congo.

鑑於考恩和這次談話，您能否向我們介紹醫療保健的最新時間表？我認為保健品正好符合這個剛果。

Well, the health care product certainly is in line and -- or putting it another way, let me contextualize the Cowen acquisition. Health care has been another very active sector for us. And we have done, I think, about $11 billion actually of loans and investments in health care, including an ever expanded level of activity in royalties, which, again, you saw this year.

嗯，醫療保健產品當然符合條件，或者換句話說，讓我來介紹一下 Cowen 收購的背景。醫療保健是我們另一個非常活躍的領域。我認為，我們實際上已經在醫療保健領域進行了約 110 億美元的貸款和投資，其中包括不斷擴大的特許權使用費活動，這一點你今年也看到了。

And adding Cowen brings us yet another set of adjacent capabilities extremely deep on better -- the earlier part of that cycle, in particular, more of the pharma side, the science side. We have a series of PhDs that are part of that team that really understand the science on drug development and that's additive to where we've been more in health care services and in things like structured solutions for, as I said, royalties and the like.

考恩的加入為我們帶來了另一組非常深入的相鄰能力——該週期的早期部分，特別是更多的製藥方面、科學方面。我們擁有一系列博士，他們是團隊的一部分，他們真正了解藥物開發科學，這對我們在醫療保健服務以及正如我所說的版稅等方面的結構化解決方案有所幫助。

And so -- now we have a full suite, full life cycle of capabilities and by the way, as you've seen, the Cowen team has outstanding results, and they're really in a very, very interesting innovative area where they've dramatically outperformed their peers. So we now have all those pieces together. We see two big areas for growth. Health care is absolutely one of them. We've been starting to talk to investors. Again, we have to make sure we can come up with exactly the right structure, exactly the right product.

因此，現在我們擁有一整套、完整生命週期的功能，順便說一句，正如您所看到的，Cowen 團隊取得了出色的成果，他們確實處於一個非常非常有趣的創新領域，他們在其中「我們的表現遠遠超過了他們的同齡人。現在我們將所有這些部分組合在一起。我們看到兩大成長領域。醫療保健絕對是其中之一。我們已經開始與投資者交談。同樣，我們必須確保我們能夠拿出完全正確的結構、完全正確的產品。

To your good first question, we have to do it in a way that's distinctive, in a way that really adds value. We think we've got the pieces of that puzzle and now we've got to finish assembling that. So health care certainly has a meaningful analog to that tech story of 6 years ago. And then alternative credits, the other area, which we'll check just Jason, while we're talking about it, this area outside of the traditional sponsor credit, we've really been developing a lot of capabilities in-house on things like ABL and airplane leasing and that's another rich area that we're focused on. We think about credit opportunities for health care and alternative credit.

對於你提出的第一個問題，我們必須以一種獨特的、真正能增加價值的方式來做這件事。我們認為我們已經掌握了拼圖的各個部分，現在我們必須完成組裝。因此，醫療保健領域肯定與 6 年前的科技故事有著有意義的相似之處。然後是替代學分，另一個領域，我們將只檢查傑森，當我們談論它時，這個領域在傳統贊助商學分之外，我們確實在內部開發了很多功能，例如ABL 和飛機租賃是我們關注的另一個豐富領域。我們考慮醫療保健和替代信貸的信貸機會。

Your next question comes from Brian Mckenna with JMP Securities.

您的下一個問題來自 JMP 證券公司的 Brian Mckenna。

So the real estate business has had some terrific growth since you acquired Oak Street at the end of 2021, with AUM up about 80% in just 2 years. And then the outlook is pretty bright as well. Marc and the team have done a terrific job here. But one thing that stands out to me is their ability to source transactions and just the absolute level of deal flow. So can you talk about the size of the investment team today? What's their capacity from an origination perspective? And ultimately, how much AUM can the business support over time?

所以自2021年底收購Oak Street以來，房地產業務取得了驚人的成長，資產管理規模在短短兩年內成長了約80%。而且前景也相當光明。馬克和他的團隊在這裡做得非常好。但對我來說最突出的一件事是他們獲取交易來源的能力以及交易流的絕對水準。那麼您能談談今天投資團隊的規模嗎？從起源的角度來看，他們的能力是什麼？最終，隨著時間的推移，業務可以支援多少 AUM？

Well, Marc Zahr has done a spectacular job. So if I could -- thank you for that, and I'll join you in commending our partner there really has architected a unique business model, which its durability and attributes, of course, shine through this year. The business, as you know, with our new fund, we have now raised $5 billion, that's twice the size of the last fund, the largest fund -- real estate fund in the U.S. this entire year. And I will tell you that deployment is already off to a strong start. We already have hundreds of millions of dollars in LOIs and over 1 billion -- I'm sorry, in transactions and over $1 billion in LOIs.

馬克·扎爾（Marc Zahr）做得非常出色。因此，如果可以的話，謝謝您，我將與您一起讚揚我們的合作夥伴確實構建了一種獨特的商業模式，其耐用性和屬性當然在今年表現出色。如你所知，我們的新基金現在已經籌集了 50 億美元的資金，是上一個基金（美國今年最大的基金——房地產基金）規模的兩倍。我會告訴你，部署已經有了一個好的開始。我們已經有數億美元的意向書和超過 10 億美元的意向書——對不起，是交易和超過 10 億美元的意向書。

So right at this moment, I would say we're probably pacing ahead of the ordinary pace of our product. And the demand is high because it's an alternative solution to capital needs for large corporate users and much like private credit. There's this element of adaptation. People finding the product and ultimately using it in more disruptive markets like people have experienced over the last year, you get more people thinking about innovative ways to finance.

因此，就在此時此刻，我想說我們的步伐可能領先於我們產品的正常步伐。需求很高，因為它是大型企業用戶資本需求的替代解決方案，就像私人信貸一樣。這裡有一個適應的因素。人們發現該產品並最終在更具顛覆性的市場中使用它，就像人們在去年所經歷的那樣，你會讓更多的人考慮創新的融資方式。

And so we have, right, at this point, our overall backlogs are really running at record highs in terms of all the things in our pipeline over $10 billion. So we have plenty to focus on and, of course, also as we continue to extend that reach into Europe. So I don't want to say there's no constraint. I mean if you think about the massive amount of critical real estate owned by investment-grade institutions around the world, I mean, that is a very, very large and it's mostly a white space. It's just not an area that's transacted.

因此，就我們管道中的所有項目而言，目前我們的總體積壓訂單確實達到了歷史新高，超過 100 億美元。因此，我們有很多事情需要關注，當然，隨著我們繼續將業務範圍擴展到歐洲。所以我不想說沒有限制。我的意思是，如果你考慮世界各地投資等級機構擁有的大量關鍵房地產，我的意思是，這是一個非常非常大的空間，而且大部分都是空白。這只是一個沒有交易的區域。

So I'm not suggesting that every company is going to do it with every asset or even close, but if you kind of take a step back and contextualize what amounts to, of course, our biggest fund in this market are versus that marketplace, we're a fragment. So I don't think addressable market is in any manner a constraint. But we've got to keep going out there and finding the best product and developing the partnerships and proving that, that's a really innovative and effective way for these companies to finance. But clearly, people like Amazon have made that choice, and there's plenty of others that we have worked with that are likewise doing it.

因此，我並不是建議每家公司都會對每一項資產甚至關閉資產都這樣做，但如果你退後一步，考慮一下我們在這個市場上最大的基金與那個市場的情況，我們是一個碎片。因此，我認為潛在市場不會以任何方式構成限制。但我們必須繼續走出去，尋找最好的產品，發展合作關係，並證明，這對這些公司來說是一種真正創新且有效的融資方式。但顯然，像亞馬遜這樣的公司已經做出了這樣的選擇，而且我們合作過的許多其他公司也同樣這樣做了。

And last point, I guess I'd add is this new onshoring move, onshoring trend, which, of course, everyone is well aware of is going to be a potentially huge driver for this asset class. The amount of money that's being spent just right now on developing semiconductor production in the U.S. These are gigantic fab plants, for example. And the capital intensity, I think I was just reading that Sam Altman wants to raise some number of trillions of dollars to develop chip capacity. Every one of those things is a giant new facility. And in a world of -- not going to be so easy to find trillions of dollars of capital, you certainly don't have to own the real estate.

最後一點，我想我要補充的是這種新的在岸舉措，即在岸趨勢，當然，每個人都清楚這將成為該資產類別的潛在巨大驅動力。例如，目前在美國開發半導體生產所花費的資金是龐大的晶圓廠。至於資本密集度，我想我剛剛讀到薩姆·奧爾特曼希望籌集數萬億美元來開發晶片產能。每一件東西都是一個巨大的新設施。在一個不容易找到數萬億美元資本的世界裡，你當然不必擁有房地產。

So we've been very active in dialogues with chip companies, for example, and what a great asset for us. A core institutional asset that's going to run for a very long time, big dollars with many, many wonderful credit counterparties. So I -- we appreciate every day we have to work hard to find the best investments, but addressable market is sizable. Pipeline is very active right now. And then as I mentioned, as Europe is a whole another rich vein that we're continuing and working on how to mine best because the companies we work with are global. And they have real estate in Europe and they ask us about their real estate in Europe. So that's another leg of growth from our point of view.

例如，我們一直非常積極地與晶片公司進行對話，這對我們來說是一筆巨大的財富。核心機構資產將運作很長一段時間，是有很多很多優秀信用交易對手的巨額美元。所以我——我們很感激我們每天都必須努力工作才能找到最好的投資，但潛在的市場是巨大的。目前管道非常活躍。正如我所提到的，由於歐洲是另一條豐富的礦脈，我們正在繼續努力研究如何最好地開採，因為我們合作的公司是全球性的。他們在歐洲擁有房地產，他們向我們詢問他們在歐洲的房地產。從我們的角度來看，這是成長的另一條腿。

Super helpful. And congrats on another great quarter.

超有幫助。恭喜又一個偉大的季度。

Your next question comes from Alex Blostein with Goldman Sachs.

您的下一個問題來自高盛的 Alex Blostein。

I wanted to -- maybe zooming out a little bit, I just want to talk about fundraising a little bit more broadly. You guys had a really nice momentum exiting the year. And it's important to note, I think, that the flows are becoming a little bit more balanced between both channels and products.

我想——也許縮小一點，我只想更廣泛地談論籌款問題。你們今年的表現非常好。我認為，值得注意的是，通路和產品之間的流量正在變得更加平衡。

So as you're looking out into 2024, what is sort of the aspirations for fundraising for the firm as a whole? And more importantly, how should we think about the breadth of the flows that you're expecting to see next year?

那麼，當您展望 2024 年時，整個公司的融資意願是什麼？更重要的是，我們應該如何考慮明年預計會看到的流量廣度？

Thanks, Alex. And in the insightful phrasing of your question is an observation I just want to start with, which is fourth quarter did indeed reflect, I think, something important about the continuing evolution of the business, both in having the several adjacent legs and having several adjacent strategies, staying very much in our northbound highway. So to be clear, we have a strategy that is not all things all people back to the beginning of this conversation.

謝謝，亞歷克斯。在你的問題的富有洞察力的措辭中，我只想開始一個觀察，我認為第四季度確實反映了業務持續發展的一些重要內容，無論是在擁有幾個相鄰的腿還是在擁有多個相鄰的腿上策略，留在我們的北行高速公路上。所以要明確的是，我們有一個策略，並不是所有的事情都讓人們回到這次對話的開始。

But we do have more arrows in that quiver. And so what we saw well set in the fourth quarter was all of that starting to kind of show up in one period. Now I'm very cautious about focus in any quarter. We don't manage our business quarter-to-quarter. Fundraising, as you obviously know, is very episodic quarter-to-quarter just based on mandates and flagships and exact timing of product launches, so try to manage that way or sort of guess that way. But what you did see in the fourth quarter, which I think we will see repeat itself more is this breadth between products.

但我們的箭袋裡確實有更多的箭。因此，我們在第四季看到的一切都開始在一個時期內顯現出來。現在我對任何季度的關注都非常謹慎。我們不會按季度管理我們的業務。正如您顯然知道的那樣，籌款是非常間歇性的，僅基於任務和旗艦產品以及產品發布的確切時間，因此請嘗試以這種方式進行管理或以這種方式進行猜測。但你在第四季確實看到的是產品之間的廣度，我認為我們會看到更多的重複。

We have significant fundraising in credit, we have significant fundraise in real estate and we had significant fundraising in GP stakes, and we will continue to -- we expect to see that in 2024. Because again, we now have more multiple product points of access and multiple products.

我們在信貸領域進行了大量融資，在房地產領域進行了大量融資，在普通合夥人股權方面進行了大量融資，我們將繼續進行——我們預計在2024 年看到這一點。因為我們現在擁有更多的產品存取點以及多種產品。

And then between wealth and institutional, likewise, we've got both very much developing plenty of room to run. There's our -- real estate continues to offer a product, which is the only net inflow real estate product in the marketplace, is still only on a very few number of platforms and we're just have and are launching on many new platforms this year to offer that product. So I think that composition is exactly kind of the building block into 2024.

同樣，在財富和製度之間，我們都有很大的發展空間。我們的房地產繼續提供一種產品，這是市場上唯一淨流入的房地產產品，仍然只在極少數的平台上，我們今年剛在許多新平台上推出。提供該產品。所以我認為這種組成正是 2024 年的基石。

Again, there's always going to be the ebbs and flows of when a new flagship comes in or when we launch on a new platform, but I think we do feel like we're in a good place heading into 2024 in the balance between products and between channels. And wealth continues to be strong for us and institutional continues to be strong. We've seen some of those SMAs. We've long talked about start to actually convert and credit, and those are big chunky numbers as well.

同樣，當新旗艦產品問世或我們在新平台上推出時，總會有起起落落，但我認為，進入 2024 年，我們確實感覺在產品和服務之間的平衡方面處於一個良好的位置。通道之間。我們的財富持續強勁，制度持續強勁。我們已經看到了其中一些 SMA。我們長期以來一直在談論開始實際轉換和信貸，這些也是大而粗的數字。

Great. And then one strategic question for you guys, actually, a bit of a 2-parter, but I promise they're sort of related. On the balance sheet, so you mentioned insurance and you guys are looking to explore insurance opportunities for the firm. How do you think about structuring that? How do you think about minority ownership, majority ownership insurance companies that's kind of part one. And again, sort of related to the balance sheet, I saw you guys launched JV taking minority stakes with an asset manager in Abu Dhabi, maybe a little counterintuitive just given the fact that, that's what Dyal sort of does, obviously, a bigger scale. But why not do the strategy out of GP Solutions? What's the strategy behind partnering and doing a JV?

偉大的。然後向你們提出一個戰略問題，實際上，有點像兩方，但我保證它們是相關的。在資產負債表上，你們提到了保險，你們正在尋求為公司探索保險機會。您認為如何建構它？您如何看待少數股權、多數股權保險公司，這是第一部分。再說一遍，與資產負債表有關，我看到你們成立了合資企業，與阿布達比的一家資產管理公司持有少數股權，考慮到這就是Dyal 所做的，顯然，規模更大，這可能有點違反直覺。 。但為什麼不採用 GP Solutions 的策略呢？合作成立合資企業背後的策略是什麼？

Sure, and appreciate both questions. So first, with regard to insurance, look, it's an area that we have been for years, spending time on trying to develop a Blue Owl appropriate strategy. So let's start with this.

當然，並且感謝這兩個問題。首先，就保險而言，這是我們多年來一直致力於的領域，花時間嘗試制定適合 Blue Owl 的策略。那麼就讓我們從這個開始吧。

We have 2 terrific channels of capital access that we talked about today, wealth and institutional, traditional institutional. The one we don't have that, obviously, some of our peers have done so well with is insurance. We're aware of that. We've been working on that pretty thoughtfully. We may not be able to develop the right solution, but it's something we're focused on adding to bring that third key leg in that again, most others have developed.

我們今天討論了兩個很棒的資本獲取管道：財富管道和製度管道，傳統制度管道。顯然，我們的一些同行在這方面做得很好，但我們沒有保險。我們知道這一點。我們一直在深思熟慮地研究這個問題。我們可能無法開發出正確的解決方案，但這是我們專注於添加的東西，以再次將第三個關鍵部分引入其中，大多數其他解決方案已經開發出來。

From our point of view, we're going to stay true to our strategy. Look, we are in the asset management business. We are balance sheet light. Both of those will remain our focus. We do not aspire to own an insurance company. We aspire to become an insurance company. People have different strategies, so we're not opining on anybody else's strategy, have been enormously successful for other people. That's not our strategy.

從我們的角度來看，我們將堅持我們的策略。看，我們從事的是資產管理業務。我們的資產負債表很輕。這兩者都將仍然是我們的重點。我們並不渴望擁有一家保險公司。我們立志成為保險公司。人們有不同的策略，所以我們不會對其他人的策略發表意見，它對其他人來說已經取得了巨大的成功。那不是我們的策略。

So our strategy is much more about how do we access asset management, the insurance channel in a balance sheet light way. So that's really where our focus is. And it's -- it will continue to be an intense focus. Maybe an ever more intense focus as we head into 2024. And as we've now really gotten our other acquisitions integrated, and you can see kind of the cylinders firing in the fourth quarter.

因此，我們的策略更多是關於如何以資產負債表輕的方式進入資產管理和保險管道。這確實是我們的重點。這將繼續成為人們關注的焦點。當我們進入 2024 年時，可能會更加關注。而且我們現在已經真正整合了其他收購，您可以看到第四季度的動力。

With regard to -- sorry, what was your second question?

關於——抱歉，你的第二個問題是什麼？

Lunate.

月牙。

Yes, the Lunate JV. Yes. So just to be clear on the architecture, this is part of our GP solutions product and back to this point about having adjacencies that are highly strategic and additive where we can add value for our investors in a distinct way. So today, as you know, we really are the market for large cap GP solutions. And in fact, that fund, very much by design, focuses on large cap managers, the CBCs, the Veritas, the Silver Lakes. And so that's been an area we've built a distinct network. We have our BSP, our operational support resources and we love that space. And of course, we're in with our flagship where we got off to a good start in the fourth quarter.

是的，Lunate JV。是的。因此，為了明確架構，這是我們的 GP 解決方案產品的一部分，回到這一點，即具有高度策略性和附加性的鄰接，我們可以以獨特的方式為投資者增加價值。因此，如您所知，今天我們確實是大盤普通合夥人解決方案的市場。事實上，該基金在設計上主要關注大盤股管理公司、CBC、Veritas 和 Silver Lakes。因此，我們在這個領域建立了獨特的網絡。我們擁有 BSP、營運支援資源，我們喜歡這個空間。當然，我們的旗艦產品在第四季度取得了良好的開端。

There's another arena that has not been our focus, which are these more higher -- well, it may not be higher growth actually because those firms we grow quite substantially, but younger firms or smaller firms that have a lot of ongoing potential or the so-called middle market. So hence, our advantage fund in combination with Lunate is our way of coming with a value-added solution to that market.

還有另一個領域不是我們關注的焦點，這些領域更高——好吧，實際上可能不是更高的成長，因為這些公司我們成長相當大，但年輕的公司或較小的公司有很大的持續潛力或因此- 稱為中間市場。因此，我們的優勢基金與 Lunate 的結合是我們為該市場提供增值解決方案的方式。

In all our markets, again, I'll anchor back to what do we want to get paid for. When we're going to get paid for delivering outstanding risk-adjusted results, you have to have a value proposition for that. Well, we are now coming to the middle market, so to speak, the growing marketplace there and we're delivering 2 things with this partnership that are very distinctive. We're delivering our capabilities as, by far, the largest investor in GPs and the entire network that brings with it.

在我們所有的市場中，我再次將重點放在我們想要獲得報酬的問題上。當我們要因提供出色的風險調整結果而獲得報酬時，您必須為此制定價值主張。好吧，我們現在正在進入中間市場，可以說，那裡不斷增長的市場，我們透過這種合作關係提供了兩件非常獨特的東西。作為迄今為止全科醫生及其整個網絡的最大投資者，我們正在發揮我們的能力。

And the operational resources, which are -- certainly been valuable to many of our large cap GPs, but think about the value and impact of those resources to a firm that can't afford to hold all those themselves, right? If you manage $50 billion, $100 billion on Zahr, you can have a whole lot of operational capabilities in-house. But when we manage $5 billion and growing our ability to bring our BSP at all that capability around how to kind of best practice and support growth, that's real value. That's something people should consider beyond price.

營運資源對我們的許多大盤普通合夥人來說當然很有價值，但想想這些資源對於一家無力擁有所有這些資源的公司來說的價值和影響，對嗎？如果你在 Zahr 上管理 500 億美元、1000 億美元，你就可以在內部擁有大量的營運能力。但是，當我們管理 50 億美元並不斷增強我們的能力，讓我們的 BSP 具備最佳實踐和支援成長的能力時，這才是真正的價值。這是人們應該超越價格考慮的事情。

And Lunate is a very big investor and intends to continue to be a big investor to the best of our understanding in private equity. So we also bring along someone who's going to have a very, very strong and, obviously, positive view of anybody we partner with. So they'll make their own decision that goes with that, but we bring along this deep capital partner pool. So I think that brings us into a position to add real value in this middle market space, and we don't control that below $10 billion of AUM. So it's complementary. It's not -- it's really just filling out the pie, the puzzle, going all the way across the spectrum.

Lunate 是個非常大的投資者，據我們對私募股權的了解，打算繼續成為一個大投資者。因此，我們也帶來了一個對我們合作的任何人都抱有非常非常強烈、顯然積極的看法的人。因此，他們會做出自己的決定，但我們帶來了這個深厚的資本合作夥伴庫。因此，我認為這使我們能夠在這個中間市場空間中增加真正的價值，我們不會將其控制在 100 億美元以下的 AUM 之下。所以是互補的。它不是——它實際上只是填滿餡餅、拼圖，一路跨越整個範圍。

Your next question comes from Craig Siegenthaler with Bank of America.

您的下一個問題來自美國銀行的克雷格·西根塔勒。

So we wanted to circle back on private wealth fundraising. So we had OCICs flows roughly doubling in the quarter, which is pretty impressive. And ORENT's flows improved too, although a smaller amount, just given softer investor sentiment in real estate. But I wanted to see if you could comment on the sales trajectory of both products into early 2024. And it would also be helpful if you could provide an update on how many major platform shelves both products sit on today. And if you expect any major wirehouse or PB platform launches over the near term?

因此，我們想回到私人財富籌款上來。因此，本季 OCIC 的流量大約翻了一番，這是相當令人印象深刻的。 ORENT 的資金流量也有所改善，儘管金額較小，只是考慮到房地產投資者情緒疲軟。但我想看看您是否可以對這兩種產品到 2024 年初的銷售軌跡發表評論。如果您能提供這兩種產品目前在多少個主要平台上架的最新信息，也會很有幫助。您是否預計近期會推出任何主要的wirehouse 或PB 平台？

Great. It's been a channel we've been after since day 1. We're coming up on a decade, 8 years, I guess, and we started trying to build into that channel. And it's obviously great to be able to see the benefits of that investment. We have a lot of people focused on this. We've spent a lot of time building trusted partnerships.

偉大的。這是我們從第一天起就一直在追求的管道。我想我們已經有十年、八年了，我們開始嘗試建立這個管道。能夠看到這項投資的好處顯然是很棒的。我們有很多人關注這一點。我們花了大量時間建立值得信賴的合作關係。

So listen, we did have a very good fourth quarter and that momentum continues. The wealth channel interest in these products. In no small part, I'll keep coming back to it. At the end of the day, it's about delivering performance. And if you look since inception and our TIC product, it's delivered just about a 12% return. You look at our CIC product, just about a 10% return.

所以聽著，我們第四季的業績確實非常好，而且這種勢頭仍在繼續。財富管道對這些產品的興趣。在很大程度上，我會繼續回來討論它。歸根結底，這就是交付性能。如果您查看我們的 TIC 產品自成立以來的情況，您會發現它的回報率僅為 12% 左右。你看看我們的CIC產品，報酬率只有10%左右。

And our ORENT product delivering -- I mean, mammoth outperformance and stability with a 7% distribution rate that has tax advantages for many investors. So I always come back to that because that's the value-add part people hopefully are drawn to. So we continue to see great interest and growth in our core income and tech income products. That's on a lot of platforms.

我們的 ORENT 產品提供——我的意思是，巨大的表現和穩定性以及 7% 的分配率，為許多投資者帶來了稅收優惠。所以我總是會回到這一點，因為這是人們希望被吸引的增值部分。因此，我們繼續看到對我們的核心收入和技術收入產品的巨大興趣和成長。很多平台上都有這個。

Now I don't have all the numbers of platforms in front of me, so I can't answer that numerically. That's on a lot of platforms. There continue to be places that we work to penetrate. But I will say this, we've looked recently with one of our partner platforms. And you look, the penetration is still very low.

現在我面前沒有所有平台的數量，所以我無法用數字來回答這個問題。很多平台都有這個功能。我們仍然在努力滲透一些地方。但我要說的是，我們最近研究了我們的一個合作夥伴平台。你看，滲透率仍然很低。

The actual share of FAs who utilize the product is low. And frankly, the number of what so-called power users, the people that really use meaningful amounts of it. I mean that's really low. And so I think that speaks not just to Ball, that's the broader wealth channel. But I have looked at our stats, there's a lot to do inside of the existing platforms, say, our core income, our credit products, which are also the ones that are probably best understood today and most in favor for their attributes.

使用該產品的 FA 實際比例很低。坦白說，所謂的高級用戶的數量，即真正使用有意義數量的用戶的數量。我的意思是這真的很低。所以我認為這不僅適用於鮑爾，也適用於更廣泛的財富管道。但我查看了我們的統計數據，現有平台內部還有很多工作要做，例如我們的核心收入、我們的信貸產品，這些產品也是當今最容易理解、最受青睞的產品。

The ORENT piece, as you note, we had, again, certainly very nice growth, which reflected just the continued organic interest and the addition, I think we may have had a platform or so last year. But now we are adding and already have added a couple of new platforms and we expect several more during the course of this year.

正如您所指出的，ORENT 作品，我們再次取得了非常好的增長，這反映了持續的有機興趣和補充，我認為我們去年可能有一個平台左右。但現在我們正在添加並且已經添加了幾個新平台，我們預計今年還會添加更多平台。

And that is a kind of, therefore, a dual opportunity as the -- as people learn more about the product, and there is a certain virtuous circle in this area as you get adaptation of the product, adoption of the product. And then here, we have new platforms that we're launching on as well. So we view -- real estate has been our fastest-growing business, as you know, this last year in assets. And we continue to look at real estate as the potential to be our fastest-growing business because of the distinctive model we have and the adjacencies. We're still working into both channels of distribution, things like geography, I mentioned.

因此，這是一種雙重機會——隨著人們更多地了解該產品，並且隨著您對產品的適應和採用，該領域存在一定的良性循環。然後在這裡，我們也推出了新平台。所以我們認為，正如你所知，去年的資產成長最快的業務是房地產。由於我們擁有獨特的模式和鄰近地區，我們繼續將房地產視為我們成長最快的業務的潛力。我提到過，我們仍在研究兩個分銷管道，例如地理位置。

Europe, when we think ahead, we think about we're deep in credit. We're deep in real estate. We've talked about this before, real estate credit. It would be literally filling in something we have enormous strength in. So I think we're quite enthused about real estate and the opportunity, especially given the disruption.

歐洲，當我們展望未來時，我們會想到我們的信用很深。我們在房地產領域很深。我們之前已經討論過這個問題，房地產信貸。這實際上會填補我們擁有巨大優勢的東西。所以我認為我們對房地產和機會非常熱衷，特別是考慮到破壞。

Last thing I'll say is you said this very, very wisely. There is a -- for a good reason, a very negative sentiment about real estate. So we have to kind of sell through the up. You said those 2 words and then get down to number, wait, yes, it's a disruptive category, but here is the way you succeed in it. And that's actually showing in this manner, we're getting great cap rate purchases today, right? There's a bit of the baby pap water where people are saying, "Oh, real estate, but that's great by our measure, a triple net lease warehouse to an investment-grade client if we get the uplift of just negative sentiment, therefore, higher cap rates, we'll take it.

我要說的最後一件事是你說得非常非常明智。人們對房地產抱持非常負面的情緒，這是有充分理由的。所以我們必須在上漲時賣出。你說了這兩個詞，然後開始談數字，等等，是的，這是一個顛覆性的類別，但這就是你在其中取得成功的方法。這實際上以這種方式表明，我們今天的資本化率購買量很大，對嗎？人們會說，「哦，房地產，但以我們的衡量標準來看，這很棒，如果我們得到負面情緒的提升，那麼向投資級客戶提供三重淨租賃倉庫，因此，更高上限利率，我們會接受的。

Marc, if I can add to that on the institutional side because we obviously have a very strong wealth platform. We also have a very strong institutional platform. We're expecting a very strong year on the institutional side as well. We've got a number of products. And we saw 4Q, we saw very strong institutional numbers come in 4Q. We were already off to a strong start in 1Q this year already in institutional. And when you think about the breadth of 2024 and what we have out there, we have multiple products in the credit business. We have our strategic equity product. We have diversified lending strategies, first lien fund strategies. We've obviously got GP Stakes Fund VI.

馬克，如果我可以在機構方面補充一下的話，因為我們顯然擁有非常強大的財富平台。我們也擁有非常強大的機構平台。我們預計機構方面也將迎來非常強勁的一年。我們有很多產品。我們看到了第四季度，我們看到第四季度的機構數據非常強勁。今年第一季我們在機構方面已經有了一個好的開始。當你考慮 2024 年的廣度和我們現有的產品時，我們在信貸業務中有多種產品。我們有我們的策略股權產品。我們有多元化的貸款策略，首先是留置權基金策略。顯然我們已經有了 GP Stakes Fund VI。

We just did a very big initial close, but we have a long way to go here in 2024 and 2025, and we have some existing and new products in the real estate space that we think are going to be very interesting to institutional clients.

我們剛剛完成了一次非常大的初始交割，但2024 年和2025 年我們還有很長的路要走，我們在房地產領域擁有一些現有的和新的產品，我們認為機構客戶會對這些產品非常有興趣。

Great. Just for my follow-up on Dyal V. I recall the fundraising for this fund being very kind of barbelled with some big raises in the beginning and some at the end, a little hold out in the middle. Do you expect Dyal VI as raises to be more consistent? I know you just had about $2 billion in 4Q, but something like $2 billion every quarter or two until you get to that $13 billion target. And then I know you launched a new middle markets fund, should there be a first close for that over the near term still?

偉大的。就我對 Dyal V 的後續行動而言。我記得該基金的籌款過程非常艱難，開始時有一些大幅上漲，最後有一些，中間有點堅持。您預期 Dyal VI 的加薪會更一致嗎？我知道您在第四季度只有大約 20 億美元，但每兩個季度大約有 20 億美元，直到您達到 130 億美元的目標。然後我知道您推出了一隻新的中間市場基金，短期內是否應該首次收盤？

Sure. So happy to take that. On your last point, we did an initial close with Lunate so that we just got a press release out just in the last 24 or 36 hours.

當然。很高興接受這個。關於你的最後一點，我們與 Lunate 進行了初步的交流，因此我們在過去 24 或 36 小時內剛剛發布了一份新聞稿。

Yes. I should have mentioned, they're making also a large anchor commitment to the product when I was kind of listing the attributes here, gets us right out of the gates, but I'm sorry on that.

是的。我應該要提到的是，當我在這裡列出屬性時，他們也對產品做出了巨大的錨定承諾，讓我們走出了大門，但我對此感到抱歉。

No, no, not at all. And so we've got some -- we've got our first close there done. And we have a road ahead to continue to raise that product. We think there's going to be a lot of excitement and interest over that product. It's going to take some time to raise the product just like GP Stakes Fund VI. For Fund VI, we don't expect it to be barbelled like what we saw with Fund V that was right in the middle of when we did our listing for Blue Owl. And so we think it'll be more of a straight line there.

不，不，一點也不。所以我們已經完成了一些——我們已經完成了第一次關閉。我們還有一條路可以繼續提高該產品。我們認為該產品將會引起人們的興奮和興趣。就像 GP Stakes Fund VI 一樣，籌募產品也需要一些時間。對於 VI 基金，我們預計它不會像我們在 Blue Owl 上市時所看到的基金 V 那樣受到阻礙。所以我們認為那裡會更像是一條直線。

Look, it's going to ebb and flow a little between institutional and wealth. And so you'll see one quarter a little stronger institution, one quarter a little stronger wealth. It may take some time for us to get on all the wealth platforms that we'd like to. Don't forget for Fund V, we were really on one large platform. It was a big private bank. Now we have the ability to bring all the Blue Owl relationships to the table here and really get out on a lot more wealth platform. So we're very excited about that.

看，它會在機構和財富之間稍微波動。所以你會看到四分之一的機構稍微強大一點，四分之一的財富稍微強大一點。我們可能需要一些時間才能進入我們想要的所有財富平台。不要忘記對於第五基金，我們實際上是在一個大平台上。那是一家大型私人銀行。現在我們有能力將所有藍貓頭鷹關係帶到這裡，並真正在更多的財富平台上獲得發展。所以我們對此感到非常興奮。

And on the institutional side, if you recall, when we brought all these businesses together, we had single-digit percent overlap amongst our investor bases across our 3 businesses. Now we have the opportunity to cross-sell across all of those investors. And so we're very excited about that as well, Craig.

在機構方面，如果您還記得的話，當我們將所有這些業務整合在一起時，我們 3 項業務的投資者基礎之間的重疊率僅為個位數。現在我們有機會向所有這些投資者進行交叉銷售。因此，我們對此也感到非常興奮，克雷格。

But look, it's still as all alternative products, but certainly this one. It definitely has a bit of a front-end load and a back-end load. So we don't want to -- it will not be $2 billion the quarter. It's nowhere near that linear. Everyone on this -- everyone listening here knows the natural lumpiness of different timings of close. So we did have a particular attribute in Fund V with the acquisition at that time and then the IPO.

但你看，它仍然和所有替代產品一樣，但肯定是這個。它肯定有一點前端負載和後端負載。所以我們不想——本季不會達到 20 億美元。它遠遠不是線性的。每個人 - 每個在這裡聽的人都知道不同關閉時間的自然混亂。所以我們基金V確實有一個特殊的屬性，當時的收購，然後是IPO。

So we don't have that. But I think you should still anticipate more get first calls done. It's -- there's some period of time before we then do another close and then some period of time before you get to another close. So it will not be linear, but it will -- it should be quite as hold out in the middle.

所以我們沒有那個。但我認為您仍然應該期待更多的“第一次通話”完成。在我們進行另一次結束之前需要一段時間，然後在您進行另一次結束之前需要一段時間。所以它不會是線性的，但它會——它應該在中間保持不變。

Your next question comes from Bill Katz with TD Cowen.

您的下一個問題來自 TD Cowen 的 Bill Katz。

Just coming back to direct lending. It's been a theme that's been sort of coming up through the entire earnings season. Just wondering if you could comment a little bit on the volume as well as pricing outlook for the direct lending platform to the extent that competition picks up. Appreciate that maybe there's more unit growth out there. But nonetheless, I'd be particularly curious on how you sort of see the pricing side of things developing.

剛剛回到直接貸款。這是整個財報季一直出現的主題。只是想知道您是否可以就競爭加劇的直接貸款平台的數量和定價前景發表一些評論。欣賞也許有更多的單位成長。但儘管如此，我還是特別好奇你如何看待定價方面的發展。

Sure. It's certainly been and continues to be a very good environment for direct lending. You said a lot of people are talking about it. Dyal, I'm not chuckling, but it's a little bit point how much attention all of a sudden wants to talk about private credit, whether that is, in fact, a large part of their strategies or not. But we're happy about it.

當然。對於直接貸款來說，這確實是並將繼續是一個非常好的環境。你說很多人都在談論這個問題。戴爾，我不是在笑，但有一點點值得注意的是，突然間有多少注意力想要談論私人信貸，無論這實際上是否是他們策略的很大一部分。但我們對此感到很高興。

We're happy to -- we're perfectly satisfied to have a day in the sun. We also get that everything gets to stay in the sun. So look, we've been at this for a long time and are going to be at it for a very long time, delivering for our users, a capital solution in scale and in tailored fashion and doing that in a way that is reliable to them, and we don't compete with them in private equity.

我們很高興——我們非常滿意能在陽光下度過一天。我們也知道一切都應該留在陽光下。所以看，我們已經在這方面投入了很長時間，並將持續很長時間，為我們的用戶提供規模化、客製化的資本解決方案，並以可靠的方式做到這一點。我們不會在私募股權領域與他們競爭。

So I think we do have a distinct architecture here. And with all that said, look, it's a good environment today. I think to call it what it is, the economy is sound. We can all have different views. And of course, about where we'll be in 6 and 12 months. I will tell you that if you look at the performance of our portfolio, this -- the lag with the last full quarter, we have able to report from all our portfolio companies.

所以我認為我們這裡確實有一個獨特的架構。話雖如此，你看，今天的環境很好。我認為，無論如何，經濟是健康的。我們都可以有不同的看法。當然，還有我們 6 個月和 12 個月後的情況。我會告訴你，如果你看看我們投資組合的表現，這與上一個完整季度的滯後，我們可以從所有投資組合公司中報告。

Our revenue and EBITDA growth were higher than the prior quarter. In point of fact, the EBITDA growth on average across the platform was 15%. So now we obviously focus on some very, very attractive industries, attractive businesses with the biggest backers. I don't measure suggesting that's indicative of the economy or broadly all portfolios, but it does tell me we've got a very healthy portfolio. And certainly, not an unhealthy economy, and I think actually would be a good reason to think we have a pretty solid economy at this point from the micro -- we're not macro experts from the micro up here in the U.S. So that's good.

我們的營收和 EBITDA 成長高於上一季。事實上，整個平台的 EBITDA 平均成長率為 15%。所以現在我們顯然專注於一些非常非常有吸引力的行業、有吸引力的企業以及最大的支持者。我並不認為這表明了經濟或廣泛的所有投資組合，但它確實告訴我我們擁有一個非常健康的投資組合。當然，這並不是一個不健康的經濟，而且我認為實際上這是一個很好的理由，認為我們目前從微觀來看我們的經濟相當穩健——我們不是美國的微觀宏觀專家，所以這很好。

We continue to have strong demand. And from what I understand, and again, you all have better insights into this. But if you talk to the M&A community, they're seeing a lot of activity picking up here as we go into the first quarter. Those are natural cyclicality to all things that are M&A related, which is to say fourth quarter is obviously always a big quarter because people are finishing things and then first quarter, people are able to restart these new processes.

我們仍然有強勁的需求。據我了解，你們對此都有更好的見解。但如果你與併購界交談，他們會發現，隨著我們進入第一季度，這裡出現了很多活動。對於所有與併購相關的事情來說，這些都是自然的周期性，也就是說，第四季度顯然總是一個重要的季度，因為人們正在完成事情，然後第一季度，人們能夠重新啟動這些新流程。

So setting aside the natural timing. I think we feel like the sentiment is very strong. So the outlook to us feels very good in terms of likely activity this year. There's $2.5 trillion of private equity dry powder. And they obviously had a very tepid activity year last year. So I think we imagine that in a world that looks like this, expect there'll be a lot more activity.

所以擱置自然時間。我認為我們的情緒非常強烈。因此，就今年可能的活動而言，我們的前景非常好。私募股權投資有 2.5 兆美元的乾粉。去年他們的活動顯然非常不溫不火。所以我認為我們想像在一個看起來像這樣的世界中，預計會有更多的活動。

And more activity would be the one thing I would have liked to have in direct lending, it would be just more aggregate market activity. We love the credits. We love what we're getting done. We love our position and market share. But aggregate activity is still ultimately a boundary condition. So hopefully, and it seems reasonable to expect 2024 should be a more active year and we'll gladly take that.

更多的活動將是我希望在直接貸款中擁有的一件事，這將是更多的整體市場活動。我們喜歡學分。我們熱愛我們所做的事情。我們熱愛我們的地位和市場佔有率。但整體活動最終仍是一個邊界條件。因此，希望 2024 年會是更活躍的一年，這似乎是合理的，我們很樂意接受這一點。

So finally, to come on to your question about spreads competition. So it's true, of course, that more dollars have been raised in private credit, but no more in proportion than historically to private equity. And in fact, private equity obviously has been accumulating assets here that now have to get deployed. And so I think we feel like the market remains generally in balance and looking out, again, anticipating more activity, I -- we can't meet the needs of all the capital markets.

最後，談談你關於點差競爭的問題。因此，當然，私人信貸籌集了更多美元，但比例並不高於歷史上私人股本的比例。事實上，私募股權顯然一直在這裡累積資產，現在必須進行部署。因此，我認為我們感覺到市場整體保持平衡，並且再次期待更多的活動，我們無法滿足所有資本市場的需求。

We need the liquid markets to return to have a fully functioning capital market environment. And so while 2022, of course, it's a wonderful time for credits and spreads, and there was no meaningful public market, hopefully, what we'll have is more activity and a functioning public market. But overall, that big pie will take spreads, have come down from their peaks. We certainly saw them come back in from particularly wide levels. And that's okay. Remember, we operated in exactly that environment just a couple of years ago. We're still getting paid really well by our measure. Look, our -- since inception, we've done over $80 billion in loans, and our running loss rate has been 6 basis points.

我們需要恢復流動性市場，以擁有一個功能齊全的資本市場環境。因此，儘管 2022 年對於信貸和利差來說是一個美好的時光，而且沒有有意義的公開市場，但希望我們將擁有更多的活動和一個運作良好的公開市場。但整體而言，這塊大蛋糕將會擴大，並且從高峰迴落。我們當然看到他們從特別廣泛的層面回歸。沒關係。請記住，幾年前我們正是在這種環境中運作的。按照我們的衡量標準，我們的薪水仍然很高。看，自成立以來，我們已經發放了超過 800 億美元的貸款，我們的營運損失率為 6 個基點。

And in fact, that's been more than offset by realized gains. So for that kind of underlying credit performance, our ability to deliver double-digit returns. I mean, of course, we'll take a wider spread if we can have it, but we have a very attractive risk-return proposition as we originate today. And in the large end of the market, parting comment is, a lot of the activity in the articles and, of course, are new entrants, to your point, it's like the trendy topic.

事實上，這已經被已實現的收益所抵消。因此，對於這種潛在的信用表現，我們有能力提供兩位數的回報。我的意思是，當然，如果可以的話，我們會採取更廣泛的價差，但我們今天提出的風險回報提案非常有吸引力。在大型市場中，最後的評論是，文章中的許多活動，當然，都是新進入者，就您而言，這就像流行話題。

But that's a different part of the market we're in. We're in this pyramid that Doug has talked about before. At the top of the pyramid, we're doing the largest companies with the largest sponsors, which we like for credit reasons, not some other reason really headlines and the like, it's better credits in our view. That remains the domain of a handful of people, many of whom have raised a lot of money.

但這是我們所處市場的不同部分。我們處於道格之前談到的金字塔中。在金字塔的頂端，我們正在做最大的公司和最大的贊助商，我們喜歡這種做法是出於信用原因，而不是其他真正的頭條新聞之類的原因，在我們看來，這是更好的信用。這仍然是少數人的領域，其中許多人籌集了很多資金。

So the dollars -- if you look at the dollar flows, a lot of the dollars are in the hands of the same handful of people that had them before. So the top of the pyramid isn't really changing meaningfully. The bottom of the pyramid, there's definitely been a lot of new people jocking down there. It's not where we operate.

因此，如果你觀察美元的流動情況，你會發現很多美元都掌握在少數以前擁有美元的人手中。所以金字塔的頂端並沒有真正發生有意義的變化。在金字塔的最底層，肯定有很多新人在那裡嬉戲。這裡不是我們經營的地方。

Okay -- sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you. So my second question, Alan, for you, one housekeeping item, one bigger picture question within that. The transaction line was particularly strong this quarter. I was wondering if you could flesh out maybe what was going behind that. But the broader question is, you mentioned the 60% margin, which certainly is quite strong, and you continue to reinvest back into the business.

好吧——抱歉，我無意打擾你。所以我的第二個問題，艾倫，對你來說，是一項家務管理項目，其中還有一個更大的問題。本季的交易量尤其強勁。我想知道你能否具體說明一下背後的原因。但更廣泛的問題是，您提到了 60% 的利潤率，這當然是相當高的，並且您繼續對業務進行再投資。

A number of your peers who have started much later than Blue Owl in terms of trying to get particularly into the wealth management business have spent heavily in sort of signaling that they're on the other side of that investment spend cycle. I'm just sort of wondering if you could just unpack a little bit what's behind the still elevated spending for Blue Owl and then how quickly do you think that, that could ramp up production as an offset?

許多比 Blue Owl 更晚開始嘗試進入財富管理業務的同行已經投入巨資，以表明他們正處於投資支出週期的另一端。我只是想知道您是否可以稍微解釋一下 Blue Owl 支出仍然增加的背後原因，然後您認為這可以多快提高產量作為補償？

Sure. Thanks, Bill. So on the transaction fees, we've talked in the past about that generally follows the trend of gross originations. They don't follow lockstep. So we could have a bigger quarter, one quarter and a little lower transaction fees in the next quarter. 4Q was our second biggest ever growth origination quarter. So we had -- following that, we had a very strong transaction fee quarter.

當然。謝謝，比爾。所以關於交易費用，我們過去談到過，它通常遵循總起源的趨勢。他們不按部就班。因此，我們可能會在下一個季度有一個更大的季度，一個季度和更低的交易費用。第四季是我們有史以來第二大成長起源季度。因此，在那之後，我們的交易費用季度非常強勁。

On the 60% margin, look, we will -- we talk a lot about not being complacent in the industry and we're going to continue to put very valuable dollars back into fundraising. And we're focused on both institutional and wealth in those regards. And we have a very built-out institutional and wealth fundraising teams. We want to continue to grow that. We want to continue to expand. We want to expand both in the U.S., we want to expand both around the world for institutional and for wealth.

在 60% 的利潤率上，我們會——我們經常談論不要在這個行業自滿，我們將繼續將非常有價值的資金投入到籌款中。在這些方面，我們關注制度和財富。我們擁有非常完善的機構和財富籌款團隊。我們希望繼續發展這一點。我們希望繼續擴大規模。我們希望在美國擴張，我們希望在世界各地擴張，以實現制度和財富。

So we're going to continue to invest ours in that. We're also launching new products. And so when you think about each scale product, I think I talked about in my remarks, every big scale product that we raise like a real estate Fund VI or GP Stakes Fund VI. We have other new products we're launching that have much lower margins. And so everything blends back to that 60% that we see for the next few years.

因此，我們將繼續對此進行投資。我們也推出了新產品。因此，當您考慮每個規模產品時，我想我在演講中談到了我們籌集的每個大型產品，例如房地產基金 VI 或 GP 股權基金 VI。我們正在推出其他利潤率較低的新產品。因此，未來幾年一切都會回歸到我們看到的 60%。

Your next question comes from Steven Chubak with Wolfe Research.

您的下一個問題來自 Wolfe Research 的 Steven Chubak。

I wanted to ask on the Cowen Healthcare acquisition, which you gave some great color in response to an earlier question just on the broader strategy. It gives you a great foothold in the health care life sciences space. But what I was hoping to get a better sense of is how quickly you could scale the strategy. Should we think about it following a similar growth trajectory to some of your tech-focused funds? Or could it be even faster just given greater brand recognition, better distribution capabilities that you have today?

我想問關於 Cowen Healthcare 收購的問題，您在回答先前關於更廣泛策略的問題時給出了一些很好的解釋。它讓您在醫療保健生命科學領域站穩腳跟。但我希望更好地了解你可以多快地擴展該策略。我們是否應該考慮遵循與你們的一些以科技為重點的基金類似的成長軌跡？或者，如果您現在擁有更高的品牌知名度和更好的分銷能力，速度是否會更快？

Well, look, we certainly see a meaningful opportunity. These things take time to develop well and right and to be able to develop the value add. And so -- look, tech has been extraordinary, and I -- we're lucky and we appreciate that we are able to create that opportunity. I wish that was somehow the future of health care and maybe someday, it will.

好吧，看，我們確實看到了一個有意義的機會。這些事情需要時間才能良好、正確地發展，並且能夠發展附加價值。所以，看，科技是非凡的，我很幸運，我們很感激我們能夠創造這個機會。我希望這就是醫療保健的未來，也許有一天，它會的。

I don't think that's the template we would have in mind. I think this is about methodically building across the platform. It's already an area we're very active and to be clear. As I said, we've already done $11 billion of investments in this arena. So I think it's too early to really give you a lot of direction on scale and timing, but it is safe to say it's an area we're very focused on developing our platform.

我認為這不是我們想要的模板。我認為這是關於有條不紊地跨平台建構。需要明確的是，這已經是我們非常活躍的領域。正如我所說，我們已經在這個領域投資了 110 億美元。因此，我認為現在就規模和時間安排提供大量指導還為時過早，但可以肯定地說，這是我們非常專注於開發平台的領域。

Tech, I think, was a pretty special case. It is true we have a much more developed infrastructure and much more developed platform and a much more developed set of LPs. But software is such a mega trend, and we were so early with that. I think that was pretty special. But this is definitely an exciting opportunity.

我認為科技是一個非常特殊的例子。確實，我們擁有更發達的基礎設施、更發達的平台以及更發達的有限合夥人。但軟體是一個大趨勢，而我們很早就意識到了這一點。我認為這很特別。但這絕對是一個令人興奮的機會。

I'm talking about another huge part of the economy, and health care is certainly it. And we now have a complete set from life sciences to structured solutions to health care services capabilities. So we're going to work on it, and we'll certainly keep you all posted as we develop. And by the way, I love the -- nothing blue about 72 in your flash note. Thank you for that.

我說的是經濟的另一個重要部分，醫療保健無疑是其中之一。而我們現在擁有一整套從生命科學到結構化解決方案再到醫療保健服務的能力。因此，我們將努力解決這個問題，並且我們一定會在開發過程中隨時向大家通報情況。順便說一下，我很喜歡你的閃信中關於 72 的內容，沒有任何藍色的內容。謝謝你。

Your next question comes from Patrick Davitt with Autonomous Research.

您的下一個問題來自自主研究的派崔克戴維特。

This view out there that like middle market lending is less exposed to bank disintermediation and deal activity than the larger market where you play. So in that vein, what are you guys seeing in terms of that give and take between new deal volume and refinancing outflows from larger borrowers as the broadly syndicated and high-yield market opens back up.

這種觀點認為，與你所在的更大市場相比，中間市場貸款受到銀行脫媒和交易活動的影響較小。因此，在這種情況下，隨著廣泛的銀團和高收益市場重新開放，你們在新交易量和較大借款人的再融資流出之間看到了什麼。

So whether it's less susceptible to bank -- I mean, at the end of the day, the flow lines have been away from the traditional syndicated market toward us, not the other way back, of course, as you know. It's certainly true. You're not going to take small companies and do syndicated loans. But that's kind of part of the problem with the nature of those credits and the scalability. We always get offered brought these smaller transactions.

因此，無論它是否不太容易受到銀行的影響——我的意思是，最終，資金流線已經從傳統的銀團市場轉向我們，而不是相反，當然，正如你所知。這當然是真的。你不會接受小公司並進行銀團貸款。但這是這些信用的性質和可擴展性問題的一部分。我們總是收到這些較小交易的報價。

And listen, nothing -- not a one size fits all, but I can tell you on average, the credits are nowhere near as good and the terms are no better. So I genuinely don't understand the argument for the smaller cap alone strategy. It's a perfectly fine strategy. But somehow, I don't know if you want to try to position us, "Oh, here's an advantage over large cap." There isn't an advantage. That doesn't mean it's not a perfectly good business. With regard to banks and kind of the flows.

聽著，沒有什麼——不是一刀切的，但我可以告訴你，平均而言，積分遠沒有那麼好，條款也好不到哪裡去。所以我真的不懂單獨小型股策略的論點。這是一個非常好的策略。但不知何故，我不知道你是否想嘗試給我們定位，“哦，這是相對於大盤股的優勢。”沒有什麼優勢啊這並不意味著它不是一個完美的生意。關於銀行和資金流類型。

So you make a really good point. There's sort of 2 forces at work, and they'll show up in different ways in different times, which is the return of some functioning liquid market, and I think we are seeing the return of some function in liquid market. Again, with the kind of the asterixis on I'll say, we're happy about that. I mean we need that to have a good functioning and vibrant marketplace.

所以你說得非常好。有兩種力量在起作用，它們會在不同的時間以不同的方式出現，這就是某些功能性流動性市場的回歸，我認為我們正在看到流動性市場中某些功能的回歸。再說一次，我會說，對於那種撲翼樣震顫，我們對此感到高興。我的意思是，我們需要這樣才能擁有一個運作良好且充滿活力的市場。

The abstracts is, of course, it's nice when the market is entirely in the private hands. So there's an asterixis to that statement. But that's not a bad dynamic in aggregate. And then there's going to be this bidirectional point when those liquid markets return, of course, that means that's going to be an option for users when it wasn't an option.

當然，當市場完全掌握在私人手中時，摘要是很好的。所以這句話有一個星號顫音。但總的來說，這並不是一個糟糕的動態。然後，當這些流動性市場回歸時，就會出現雙向點，當然，這意味著當用戶不可以選擇時，這將成為用戶的選擇。

But remember, that was a wide open option in 2021 when we were thriving and having some of our biggest origination periods, which kind of speaks to the point that activity meets our value proposition ends up often being the net positive even when there's other people bumping around or even very active in the market. And what's happened over the last several years, and we've talked about this, I think, on a lot of the calls, once people try using the private solution, many, not all, decide that's absolutely what they want to do going forward.

但請記住，在2021 年，這是一個開放的選擇，當時我們正在蓬勃發展，並經歷了一些最大的創始期，這說明活動符合我們的價值主張，最終往往會帶來淨積極影響，即使有其他人在碰撞周圍甚至市場非常活躍。過去幾年發生的事情，我認為，我們在很多電話中都討論過這一點，一旦人們嘗試使用私人解決方案，許多人（不是所有人）就會決定這絕對是他們未來想要做的事情。

The value proposition of the 3Ps, predictability, privacy, partnership is something that has been now tested by many people, and they said, of course, it's true. And by the way, just I don't mean this to be, again, overly conclusive. I don't have anything like the knowledge every private equity investor asked, but I did do private equity for 20 years.

3P 的價值主張、可預測性、隱私性、夥伴關係現在已經被很多人測試過，他們說，當然，這是真的。順便說一句，我的意思並不是說這是過於結論性的。我沒有像每個私募股權投資者都要求的那樣的知識，但我確實做了20年的私募股權。

And I can say this, there is no private equity transaction that will work or not work from a return point of view because you paid a little bit more and we do charge more for the loans. And you had a stricter document. Look, if you're performing well, it won't matter if you have a stricter document. You get in trouble, it will matter, and that's of course, how we protect ourselves.

我可以這麼說，從回報的角度來看，沒有任何私募股權交易會起作用或不起作用，因為你多付了一點錢，而我們確實對貸款收取了更多費用。而且你有一份更嚴格的文件。你看，如果你表現得好，你的文件再嚴格一點也沒關係。你遇到麻煩了，這很重要，當然，這就是我們保護自己的方式。

And so at the end of the day, a lot of people, I think, are realizing the ease of execution having the predictability of terms, having a truly private capital structure, so I'm not dealing with quarterly reporting now to bondholders instead of stockholders. And most importantly, that phone call, when times change for better or worse, that partnership preferably for better.

因此，我認為，歸根結底，很多人都意識到，具有條款可預測性、真正的私人資本結構能夠輕鬆執行，所以我現在不處理向債券持有人提交季度報告，而是向債券持有人提供季度報告。股東。最重要的是，當時代變好或變壞時，那個電話，這種夥伴關係最好會變得更好。

And we've had a lot of that, people calling up and saying, "Hey, can I add on what an opportunity in 2022. No one else can buy right now. I want to buy. Can you provide me capital?" And our answer is, "Absolutely." So I think that will continue to thrive as an option. And then last, as you mentioned, there will be less, some things will go to the syndicated market. We are not suggesting otherwise. But something that in the syndicated market are going to come down to our market.

我們遇到過很多這種情況，人們打電話說：“嘿，我可以補充一下 2022 年的機會嗎？現在沒有人可以購買。我想買。你能給我資金嗎？”我們的答案是：“當然。”所以我認為這將作為一種選擇繼續蓬勃發展。最後，正如您所提到的，將會減少，有些東西將進入聯合市場。我們並不提出其他建議。但聯合市場中的一些東西將落在我們的市場上。

As you have noted with your question, and we've already seen that, right? We've done that with Finastra. We've done that with PetVet. Things that are coming out of that market, I would suggest there's probably a lot more opportunity for them to flow in that direction than people who have had a great experience in the private market saying, "Oh, I'm really excited to be back to the market of having 100 different lenders when I can otherwise deal with 1 or 2." So we take everybody seriously. And there's great value propositions. The banks do a great job. I think we do a great job and a healthy ecosystem as both of us doing our job.

正如您在問題中所指出的，我們已經看到了，對吧？我們已經透過 Finastra 做到了這一點。我們已經透過 PetVet 做到了這一點。從這個市場出來的東西，我建議他們可能有更多的機會朝這個方向流動，而不是那些在私人市場擁有豐富經驗的人說：「哦，我真的很高興能回來市場上有100 個不同的貸款人，而我可以處理1 或2 個貸款人。”所以我們認真對待每個人。而且有很大的價值主張。銀行做得很好。我認為我們做得很好，並且在我們雙方的工作中建立了健康的生態系統。

Helpful. A quick follow-up. The 15% EBITDA growth in the portfolio, obviously, great, but I assume that excludes the recurring revenue loans. So could you update us on what percentage of the portfolio is recurring revenue and how those borrowers are performing?

有幫助。快速跟進。投資組合中 15% 的 EBITDA 成長顯然很棒，但我認為這不包括經常性收入貸款。那麼您能否向我們介紹一下經常性收入佔投資組合的百分比以及這些借款人的表現如何？

Don't have the percentage in front of me. So I can't quite answer that, but I can say they're doing very well. That is to say that the software area continues to be extremely healthy. We continue to be in a place where we have not yet had a loss on a software loan.

我面前沒有百分比。所以我不能完全回答這個問題，但我可以說他們做得很好。也就是說，軟體領域仍然非常健康。我們仍然處於尚未出現軟體貸款損失的狀態。

In fact, we've not had a default on a software loan. And that continues to be true. So the recurring revenue loans are -- or those businesses continue to do very well. And when I think about the portfolio, I would stand by what we concluded 6 years ago. Software on average is -- are the best credit to the market, which is why we went there in the first place and why we go there now.

事實上，我們還沒有出現過軟體貸款違約的情況。這仍然是事實。因此，經常性收入貸款是──或者說這些企業繼續表現良好。當我考慮投資組合時，我會堅持我們 6 年前的結論。平均而言，軟體是對市場最好的信任，這就是我們首先去那裡的原因，也是我們現在去那裡的原因。

So the recurring revenue loans are doing very well. Remember, one other thing on recurring revenue loans because again, for reasons I understand, it gets a lot of attention in the sort of, hey, that's not what people traditionally pictured. But recurring revenue loan in the context of a big SaaS company is a company that has a lot of revenue, a tremendous amount of gross profit, right, 80%, 90% margins.

因此，經常性收入貸款表現非常好。請記住，關於經常性收入貸款的另一件事是，因為我理解的原因，它再次引起了很多關注，嘿，這不是人們傳統上想像的那樣。但在大型 SaaS 公司的背景下，經常性收入貸款是一家擁有大量收入、大量毛利的公司，對吧，80%、90% 的利潤率。

But is spending a lot of that to further grow their business and therefore, further grow those gross margin dollars at rates way above the average enterprise in the U.S. or elsewhere. As a lender to that company, you don't get to spend 50% of your revenues on marketing and sales, if you don't pay your interest bill. So I think one of the durability elements that has shown, and we thought to be true. And I think still though sometimes in this distinction, not to say it's lost, but I think it's undervalued.

但他們花費了大量資金來進一步發展他們的業務，因此，以遠高於美國或其他地方企業平均水平的速度進一步增加毛利率。作為該公司的貸款人，如果您不支付利息，您就不能將 50% 的收入用於行銷和銷售。所以我認為耐用性元素之一已經表現出來，我們認為這是正確的。我認為儘管有時在這種區別中，並不是說它已經丟失，但我認為它被低估了。

If I have $400 million of revenue and a 90% gross margin, I have $360 million to spend. And I may want to spend it all on growing my business. But I don't get to spend any of it until I pay for that 30%. And it's only on average by 30% and a fraction percent of my capital structure that Blue Owl has financed. So I feel very good about the stability of those positions, and we've experienced that when there have been questions raised. Those are some of the earliest people to say, "No problem, we got you." Like let's just talk this through. And we love our company, and we want to keep growing. So how about we put up some more money? How about we come up with something that works for everybody?

如果我的收入為 4 億美元，毛利率為 90%，那麼我就有 3.6 億美元可花。我可能想把所有的錢都花在發展我的業務上。但在我付清那 30% 之前我不會花掉其中的任何部分。平均而言，Blue Owl 只提供了我資本結構的 30% 和一小部分資金。因此，我對這些職位的穩定性感到非常滿意，當有人提出問題時我們也經歷過這一點。他們是最早說「沒問題，我們找到你了」的人。讓我們來談談這個吧。我們熱愛我們的公司，我們希望不斷發展。那我們再存點錢怎麼樣？我們想出一些對每個人都有效的方法怎麼樣？

Your next question comes from Brennan Hawken with UBS.

您的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的布倫南霍肯。

Covered a lot this morning. So hopefully, my questions aren't too long here. I was curious about what feedback has been from the listing so far. I know it's early days, but OBDE shares haven't traded that well. So curious whether or not that's impacted any of the reception. And maybe could you talk about any potential to consider a merger between some of the listed BDCs and what benefits those would bring to investors in those vehicles.

今天早上講了很多。希望我的問題不要太長。我很好奇到目前為止列表中的回饋是什麼。我知道現在還為時過早，但 OBDE 股票的交易情況還不是很好。很好奇這是否會影響任何接待。也許您可以談談考慮一些上市 BDC 之間合併的可能性，以及這些合併將為這些工具的投資者帶來哪些好處。

Of course, well, your questions are certainly not too long. I think we can all conclude there's any danger to my answers are too long. But we like to be transparent. So with that said, with regard to the listing, the listing has been extremely well received and here's why. We told people when we create these private vehicles that we will, in an orderly basis in an appropriate amount of time, create the option but not the obligation to -- for liquidity.

當然，你的問題肯定不會太長。我想我們都可以得出結論，我的答案太長有任何危險。但我們喜歡透明。話雖如此，關於上市，上市受到了極大的歡迎，原因如下。當我們創建這些私人工具時，我們告訴人們，我們將在適當的時間內有序地創建流動性的選擇，但不是義務。

People that had an illiquid position earning a wonderful return, now have a liquid position, earning a wonderful return. And so that no one has to sell anything and in fact, it remained I don't say a mystery to us, but we certainly would prefer to many investors that are considering direct lending, why wouldn't you buy BDCs in the public market at a discount to their NAV?

那些擁有非流動頭寸並獲得豐厚回報的人，現在擁有流動頭寸，獲得了豐厚回報。這樣就沒有人需要出售任何東西，事實上，這對我們來說並不是一個謎，但我們當然更喜歡許多正在考慮直接貸款的投資者，為什麼不在公開市場上購買 BDC其資產淨值有折扣嗎？

Now there's a reason for that. Some people don't want that level of volatility. So back to the point, create the ecosystem, create different access points, different people have different preferences for how they want to invest. But it's a heck of a fine proposition. So if you don't sell them these variances in trading really aren't going to matter, and you're going to get your dividends.

現在這是有原因的。有些人不希望出現這種程度的波動。那麼回到正題，創造生態系統，創造不同的接入點，不同的人對於投資方式有不同的偏好。但這是一個很好的提議。因此，如果您不出售它們，那麼交易中的這些差異實際上並不重要，您將獲得股息。

But if you want to sell because you have other priorities, adjusted for wherever that price may be, then great. Now you have that option that doesn't exist in a traditional fund. So I think it's been very well received because we -- for us, it's important to us to deliver on our commitments to our investors and our commitment was to deliver that option at the right time. So with regard to the possibilities going forward, mergers, maybe Alan, I'll turn it to you for that.

但如果你因為有其他優先事項而想出售，並根據價格進行調整，那就太好了。現在您擁有傳統基金中不存在的選擇。所以我認為它受到了很好的歡迎，因為對我們來說，履行對投資者的承諾對我們來說很重要，而我們的承諾是在正確的時間提供該選擇。因此，關於未來的可能性，合併，也許是艾倫，我會把它交給你。

Sure. Thank you, Marc. Brennan, thank you for the question. Look, we continue to evaluate the strategic options that are available to our BDC shareholders. On the diversified lending side, we have BDC 2, we have BDC III, which is now OBDE. We could continue to have that listed on the New York Stock Exchange. It could also be natural to over time merge something like OBDE into OBDC. But we continue to look at that and continue to talk to our shareholders.

當然。謝謝你，馬克。布倫南，謝謝你的提問。看，我們將繼續評估 BDC 股東可用的策略選擇。在多元化貸款方面，我們有 BDC 2，我們有 BDC III，現在是 OBDE。我們可以繼續讓它在紐約證券交易所上市。隨著時間的推移，將 OBDE 等內容合併到 OBDC 中也可能是很自然的事。但我們會繼續關注這一點，並繼續與我們的股東進行對話。

On the tech side, on the software lending side, we have 2 private to public BDCs, OTF and OTF II. And we continue to evaluate options for those shareholders as well. We have OTF, which is fully invested, fully deployed. It's fully levered. OTF II, we still are deploying some of the capital. We have not drawn down all the capital from our shareholders there. But over the course of this next year, we'll make a lot of progress there. And we'll continue to evaluate whether it makes sense to merge those 2 and then list them or to list one and then continue to look at that.

在技​​術方面，在軟體借貸方面，我們有 2 個私有到公有的 BDC：OTF 和 OTF II。我們也將繼續評估這些股東的選擇。我們有OTF，它已被充分投資、充分部署。它已經完全槓桿化了。 OTF II，我們還在部署一些資金。我們還沒有從那裡的股東提取全部資本。但在明年的過程中，我們將在這方面取得很大進展。我們將繼續評估合併這兩個然後列出它們是否有意義，或者列出一個然後繼續研究是否有意義。

Got it. And then I know it was only 3 months ago when you guys last spoke about the dividend and the potential risk to the dollar, but the environment does seem to be getting better. So you guys are putting up some nice growth in the dividend for this year. Has that risk to the dollar in 2025 diminished, given the improvement that you guys have seen in the environment? Or should we still consider those -- that outlook unchanged?

知道了。然後我知道你們上次談論股息和美元的潛在風險只是三個月前，但環境似乎確實在好轉。所以你們今年的股息成長很快。考慮到你們所看到的環境改善，到 2025 年美元面臨的風險是否有所減弱？或者我們仍然應該考慮那些事──前景不變嗎？

Listen, we remain on track to deliver in or around dollar. And certainly, we've taken another really nice step, right? We've raised the dividend 29% to $0.72. And fundamentals in the business are strong. So every time we step closer, obviously, that feels good in trying to get there and deliver. And obviously, you can give us all collectively more comfort. There's still enough variables here in 2025 that we in and around, we pick on purpose. The dollar remains our target. We feel good about being in that range. I think the really important point I want to come back to here is that because of the predictability of our model, the stability and the growth, we've now this year grown kind of all our key metrics 25%.

聽著，我們仍有望以美元或美元左右的價格交付。當然，我們又邁出了非常好的一步，對吧？我們將股息提高了 29% 至 0.72 美元。該業務的基本面十分強勁。因此，顯然，每當我們更接近目標並交付成果時，都會感覺很好。顯然，你可以為我們所有人帶來更多安慰。到 2025 年，我們仍然有足夠的變量，我們有目的地選擇。美元仍然是我們的目標。我們對處於這個範圍內感覺良好。我認為我想回到這裡的真正重要的一點是，由於我們模型的可預測性、穩定性和成長，我們今年所有關鍵指標都成長了 25%。

And that's more than kind of double the average of our many of our peers when we look at results, which are all good results, an incredible organization. So we've done that in a highly predictable way. Remember also where we are right now is exactly where we all talked about a year ago. And that is true. I think what maybe is most distinct about our performance this year is not just the pure strength of it, which, I mean obviously, we're very pleased with, but also the consistency and predictability despite all the changes in the market. We don't have carry in our numbers.

當我們查看結果時，這比我們許多同行的平均水平高出一倍多，這都是很好的結果，是一個令人難以置信的組織。所以我們以一種高度可預測的方式做到了這一點。也要記住，我們現在所處的位置正是我們一年前談論的位置。這是真的。我認為我們今年的表現最明顯的可能不僅僅是其純粹的實力，我的意思顯然是我們對此非常滿意，而且是儘管市場發生了所有變化，但其一致性和可預測性。我們的數字中沒有進位。

We did -- a lot of people have some really strong fourth quarters, but that was after people didn't expect things to be good in the fourth quarter. People didn't think there'd be much carry. So numbers came down. So I think that predictability gives us the following comfort. And every time you get closer, probably qualitatively a tighter band, the band around that dollar should be narrow. So our aim remains the dollar. We continue to see the pathway forward. But in any case, that band gets narrower and it should be within a narrow band given just the nature of our business.

我們確實做到了——很多人都有一些非常強勁的第四季度，但那是在人們沒有預期第四季度情況會好之後。人們認為不會有太多攜帶。所以數字就下降了。所以我認為可預測性為我們帶來了以下安慰。每當你接近時，可能在質量上是一個更緊的區間，圍繞該美元的區間應該很窄。所以我們的目標仍然是美元。我們繼續看到前進的道路。但無論如何，這個範圍會變得更窄，而且考慮到我們業務的性質，它應該在一個狹窄的範圍內。

So Marc, what I'd love to do for folks, and hopefully, Brennan, you and your colleagues will find this helpful. When we think about how do we paint the picture for you all of how do you get to the $1 a share in your modeling. It's really straightforward, and it's not that many things that have to happen. It's just keeping that real focus on a handful of things to get to that goal. So when I think about 2023 revenues of $1.6 billion to $1.7 billion. We have another $1 billion of revenue that we have line of sight on.

馬克，我很樂意為人們做些什麼，希望布倫南、你和你的同事會發現這很有幫助。當我們思考如何為你們描繪一幅圖畫時，你們如何在建模中獲得每股 1 美元的收益。這真的很簡單，而且不需要發生很多事情。只需將真正的注意力集中在少數事情上即可實現該目標。因此，當我想到 2023 年的營收為 16 億至 17 億美元時。我們預計還有另外 10 億美元的收入。

So what is that $1 billion? Some of that, by the way, about $400 million, $425 million of those revenues are not from raising any more equity fundraise dollars. And so we have a 25% growth in the 2023 revenues just from taking our AUM not yet earning fees and deploying that as well as the fee step-ups from our private to public BDCs. That's over $400 million that would represent 25% growth on our revenue line from 2023 without doing any fundraising whatsoever.

那這10億美元是什麼呢？順便說一句，其中約 4 億美元、4.25 億美元的收入並非來自籌集更多的股權融資。因此，僅透過將尚未賺取費用的 AUM 進行部署以及從私人 BDC 到公共 BDC 的費用遞增，我們 2023 年的收入就會增長 25%。這超過 4 億美元，意味著我們的收入從 2023 年開始將增長 25%，而無需進行任何籌款。

Then when you add fundraising for just a few products, our GP stakes 6 product and our non-traded BDCs, OCIC and OTIC, that's another $450 million to $500 million of revenues over the next 2 years, right? So we've talked about GP Stake VI. That's a 2-year -- we're targeting '24 and '25. As Marc commented, as I commented earlier, that's going to ebb and flow a little between closes, but that's a total of a 60% revenue growth.

然後，當你加上為少數產品籌集資金時，我們的普通合夥人持有6 個產品以及我們的非交易BDC、OCIC 和OTIC，這在未來2 年內又會帶來4.5 億至5 億美元的收入，對吧？我們已經討論了 GP Stake VI。這是兩年——我們的目標是「24 和 25」。正如 Marc 所評論的，正如我之前所評論的，收盤之間會有一點潮起潮落，但整體收入增長了 60%。

And so when you think about what do we need to do to hit the $1 a share, we need to keep fundraising on the wealth side. We have to raise -- continue to raise our nontraded products, CIC, TIC, ORENT, all of those are key to this. Fundraise for GP Stakes Fund VI. We've already listed OBDC III, now traded as OBDE. And then if we can list one, maybe both, but one of our software lending BDCs, there's an accretive M&A deal out there. We achieved our goal of $1 a share. It's not 12 things that have to happen.

因此，當你考慮我們需要做什麼才能達到每股 1 美元時，我們需要繼續在財富方面籌集資金。我們必須提高——繼續提高我們的非貿易產品，CIC、TIC、ORENT，所有這些都是關鍵。為 GP 股權基金募款 VI。我們已經列出了 OBDC III，現在以 OBDE 進行交易。然後，如果我們可以列出一個，也許兩個，但我們的軟體貸款 BDC 之一，那麼那裡就有一筆增值的併購交易。我們實現了每股 1 美元的目標。這不是必須發生的 12 件事。

When you look out beyond 2025, obviously, we're putting a number of coals in the fire to continue that growth, and we've talked about the 60% FRE margin and how we're putting a lot of that R&D dollars back into the business to keep a very strong growth rate out beyond 2025. And but it's a few things that have to happen for us to achieve that dollar a share dividend. It's going to take a lot of hard work, just to be clear, but it's not a lot of things that have to happen.

當你展望 2025 年之後，顯然，我們正在投入大量資金來繼續增長，我們已經討論了 60% 的 FRE 利潤率以及我們如何將大量研發資金重新投入到研發中我們的業務要在2025 年之後保持非常強勁的成長率。但要實現每股1 美元的股息，我們必須採取一些措施。這需要付出很多努力才能弄清楚，但這並不是很多必須發生的事情。

Your next question comes from Crispin Love with Piper Sandler.

您的下一個問題來自 Crispin Love 和 Piper Sandler。

Just one question for me. On the European net lease product, can you talk a little bit more about that? Is that expected to be done all organically over time? And if there are any major differences between the European and the U.S. product other than the obvious?

只是問我一個問題。關於歐洲網租產品，可以多談談嗎？隨著時間的推移，這預計會有機地完成嗎？除了明顯的差異之外，歐洲和美國的產品是否還有其他重大差異？

Yes, happy to. So today, we do some opportunities in Europe, but we have a U.S.-centric product, obviously, in a U.S.-centric focus. But the companies we work with are global. And so they have regularly come to us and said, "Hey, listen, this really great solution we have with you in the U.S., how about Europe?" And periodically, we do one. But what we need now is a dedicated pool of capital to expand what we have available to be able to meet that need, and we'll do that through a structure that's appropriate for Europe. And so we're really following our customers, really following the demand and that demand is substantial. Is there a difference?

是的，很高興。所以今天，我們在歐洲做了一些機會，但我們有一個以美國為中心的產品，顯然，是以美國為中心的。但我們合作的公司都是全球性的。因此，他們經常來找我們說：“嘿，聽著，我們在美國和你們一起提供了這個非常棒的解決方案，歐洲怎麼樣？”我們會定期這樣做。但我們現在需要的是一個專門的資金池來擴大我們現有的資金來滿足這一需求，我們將透過適合歐洲的結構來做到這一點。因此，我們真正關注我們的客戶，真正關注需求，而這種需求是巨大的。有差別嗎？

Well, the similarities is they're very high-quality companies. And in many cases, the same global enterprises, not obviously, in every case. So it expands our lens in terms of where we can work with our current customers. It expands the customers we can work with. The opportunity, therefore, for us is organic because we already are the leader in that market and have the distinctive skills. So this is an organic build, an opportunity. Are there any real differences?

嗯，相似之處在於它們都是非常高品質的公司。在許多情況下，同樣的全球企業，並非在所有情況下都如此。因此，它擴大了我們與當前客戶合作的範圍。它擴大了我們可以合作的客戶。因此，對我們來說，機會是有機的，因為我們已經是該市場的領導者並擁有獨特的技能。所以這是一個有機的構建，一個機會。有什麼真正的區別嗎？

The only thing when I talk to the team today, on average, the terms that is to say the lease terms, the opportunities are probably a little better in Europe right now. So I'd say, cap rates meet quality of credit, probably a little more attractive. But I don't know if that's statistically significant. At the end of the day, it's really doing what we do so well here and taking it to this marketplace and putting in place a structure that is optimized for doing so in Europe.

今天我與團隊談論的唯一一件事是，平均而言，即租賃條款，目前歐洲的機會可能更好一些。所以我想說，上限利率符合信貸質量，可能更具吸引力。但我不知道這是否具有統計意義。歸根結底，它確實做了我們在這裡做得很好的事情，並將其帶到這個市場，並建立了一個針對歐洲這樣做而優化的結構。

Your next question comes from Brian Bedell with Deutsche Bank.

您的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Brian Bedell。

Great. Alan, you answered my question with Brennan's question mostly. So I'm going to skip that one and go right to my follow-up. Maybe for Marc, just you mentioned earlier in your prepared remarks about the rising consolidation in the alternative asset management business. Certainly, we've been seeing this. Maybe if you can just talk about how you see that impacting your GP Solutions business, the opportunities that you can get from that. Whether there's also within that vein, opportunities on the direct lending size, maybe combine the deal activity. And then just maybe thoughts around -- considering that thoughts around the potential for the -- turning on Fund VI of NGP stakes, whether that's -- it sounds like that's probably more 2025 event, but I just wanted to check in on that.

偉大的。艾倫，你主要用布倫南的問題回答了我的問題。所以我將跳過這一點，直接進入我的後續部分。也許對於馬克來說，正如您之前在準備好的評論中提到的，另類資產管理業務的整合不斷加強。當然，我們已經看到了這一點。也許您可以談談您如何看待這對您的 GP 解決方案業務的影響，以及您可以從中獲得的機會。是否也存在這種情況下，直接貸款規模的機會，可能會與交易活動結合。然後也許只是一些想法 - 考慮到圍繞 NGP 股份的 VI 基金的潛力的想法，無論是 - 聽起來這可能是 2025 年的事件，但我只是想檢查一下。

Absolutely. And thank you. The consolidation activity in alts is -- it's clearly noticeable, right? It's happening in a pretty material fashion, and it seems like there's continuing to be a lot of activity out there in terms of pending conversations, explorations people are having. And so a few implications of that. And your question hits right on probably the most substantial one, which is, look, it's clearly a tailwind for our GP Strategic Capital business.

絕對地。謝謝你。另類市場的整合活動很明顯，對吧？它以一種相當物質的方式發生，而且似乎在人們正在進行的懸而未決的對話和探索方面仍然有很多活動。這有一些影響。你的問題可能正好擊中了最重要的一個問題，那就是，看，這顯然是我們普通合夥人戰略資本業務的順風車。

And I say that, I guess, in 2 ways. Most importantly, I was coming back to how do we deliver great results for our investors. We own a vast number of stakes in GPs, some of whom will end up selling themselves to other consolidated tours or other big products. We've already seen that, right? We've seen like [ArcBot] get purchased and that was a great result for us.

我想，我這樣說有兩種方式。最重要的是，我回到了我們如何為投資者提供出色成果的問題。我們擁有大量全科醫生的股份，其中一些最終將把自己賣給其他聯合旅行社或其他大型產品。我們已經看到了，對吧？我們已經看到 [ArcBot] 被收購，這對我們來說是一個很好的結果。

Perhaps there'll be some more IPOs, that tends to be a good path for us over time. So that consolidation is a lift in the potential valuation and realization of value in all our prior GP funds. So I'm going to start there, that's good for our investors. It also presents new opportunities, because on the other hand, you're also going to have people where there's one firm choosing to buy another and need capital to do it, right? So that's another great motivation for working with our GP Strategic Capital business is to provide the capital you might need to be one of the consolidators.

也許會有更多的首次公開募股，隨著時間的推移，這對我們來說往往是一條不錯的道路。因此，這種整合提高了我們之前所有普通合夥人基金的潛在估值和價值實現。所以我將從這裡開始，這對我們的投資者有好處。它也提供了新的機會，因為另一方面，當一家公司選擇收購另一家公司並且需要資金來做到這一點時，你也會有人，對嗎？因此，與我們的 GP 策略資本業務合作的另一個巨大動機是為您提供成為整合者之一可能需要的資本。

And so that creates more demand. We're active on the GP stake side. We have a lot of active conversations. We're largely through the commitments, as you know, of investing Fund V. In fact, we even did a little bridge co-investment vehicle that we mentioned here before, just to kind of bring us from Fund V to now Fund VI, where we've done this close. So it should be an active area. It is clearly a favorable dynamic to have more consolidation activity, both for portfolio and for deal activity. So it's a positive exactly how much of a positive we'll see as the year plays out, but it's a helpful trend.

這樣就創造了更多的需求。我們在 GP 股份方面很活躍。我們有很多積極的對話。如您所知，我們很大程度上透過投資基金 V 的承諾。事實上，我們甚至做了我們之前提到的一個小橋樑共同投資工具，只是為了讓我們從基金 V 到現在的基金 VI，我們已經做到瞭如此接近的地方。所以它應該是一個活躍的領域。對於投資組合和交易活動來說，進行更多的整合活動顯然是一種有利的動力。因此，隨著這一年的結束，我們將看到多少積極的事情，這是一個積極的趨勢，但這是一個有益的趨勢。

And on the Fund VI closing, just to close that out, Brian, we did our closing towards the end of the quarter. So we'll start to see a positive management fee impact starting in 1Q.

在基金 VI 的交割中，布萊恩，我們在本季末完成了交割。因此，我們將從第一季開始看到管理費的正面影響。

Your final question comes from Ken Worthington with JPMorgan.

您的最後一個問題來自摩根大通的肯沃辛頓。

Hard to imagine there's any questions left, but I've got one.

很難想像還有什麼問題，但我有一個。

Bring it home strong.

堅強地帶回家。

Yes. Real estate returns, you called out were negative in the quarter and triple net lease has held up really well versus other parts of the private real estate market this year and last year and the yield environment was sort of favorable in 4Q. So anything to kind of call out on the returns this quarter? Or what drove the negative?

是的。您指出，本季房地產回報率為負，與今年和去年私人房地產市場的其他部分相比，三重淨租賃表現非常好，第四季度的收益率環境有些有利。那麼本季的回報有什麼值得關注的嗎？還是什麼導致了負面影響？

So look, this has been a really wonderful durable strategy by design. I mean that is our reason to be. That's our value add and in high-risk on market, people -- it's hard to get that signal through the noise. And obviously, in this environment, the signal comes through loud and this is a brand that performs in all markets, and we've seen that here.

所以看，這在設計上確實是一個非常棒的持久策略。我的意思是，這就是我們存在的理由。這就是我們的附加價值，在市場上的高風險中，人們很難透過噪音獲得這個訊號。顯然，在這種環境下，訊號會大聲傳出，這是一個在所有市場都有表現的品牌，我們已經在這裡看到了這一點。

As for the loss, this very small loss this quarter, that was actually a portfolio has done really, really well. The slight negative for what it's worth was tied to a mark-to-market on the debt in our real estate business. But I -- not to haggle which direction. The aggregate result for the year is a pretty good template for where we are and where we've been. There was nothing peculiar about fourth quarter other than some peculiarities in this mark-to-market part, but nothing about performance. Performance remains extremely strong.

至於損失，本季這個非常小的損失，實際上是一個投資組合做得非常非常好。其價值的輕微負面影響與我們房地產業務的債務按市值計價有關。但我——不會去爭論哪個方向。今年的整體結果是我們現在和過去的情況的一個很好的模板。除了以市值計算的部分有一些特殊之處外，第四季沒有什麼特殊之處，但與業績無關。表現依然極為強勁。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Marc Lipschultz for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在，我將把電話轉回馬克·利普舒爾茨 (Marc Lipschultz)，讓其發表結束語。

Thank you all for your time. We really do appreciate the patience here this morning and spending the time with us. And we look forward to continuing to drive hard. We have a lot of work ahead, but we are excited about the starting point for this year and the opportunities and conditions to keep driving forward in our mission and goal to try to get to that $1 a share in 2025. Have a good day.

感謝大家抽出寶貴的時間。我們非常感謝今天早上在這裡的耐心和與我們共度的時光。我們期待著繼續努力。我們還有很多工作要做，但我們對今年的起點以及繼續推進我們的使命和目標（力爭在 2025 年實現每股 1 美元）的機會和條件感到興奮。祝您有美好的一天。

Thank you, everyone.

謝謝大家。

This concludes today's conference. You may now disconnect.

今天的會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。