OneSpan Inc (OSPN) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the OneSpan third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Joe Maxa, Vice President of Investor relations. Please go ahead.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 OneSpan 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。現在我謹將會議交給今天的第一位發言人，投資者關係副總裁喬·馬克薩。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining the OneSpan third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. This call is being webcast and can be accessed on the investor relations section of OneSpan's website at investors.onespan.com.

謝謝接線生。大家好，感謝各位參加 OneSpan 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。本次電話會議將進行網路直播，可透過 OneSpan 網站投資者關係頁面 investors.onespan.com 存取。

Joining me on the call today is Victor Limongelli, our Chief Executive Officer; and Jorge Martell, our Chief Financial Officer.

今天與我一起參加電話會議的有我們的執行長 Victor Limongelli 和我們的財務長 Jorge Martell。

This afternoon after the market closed, OneSpan issued a press release announcing results for our third quarter 2025. To access a copy of the press release and other investor information, please visit our website.

今天下午股市收盤後，OneSpan 發布新聞稿，公佈了 2025 年第三季業績。如需新聞稿副本和其他投資者信息，請訪問我們的網站。

Following our prepared comments today, we'll open the call for questions. Please note that statements made during this conference call that relate to future plans, events, or performance, including the outlook for full year 2025 and other long-term financial targets, are forward-looking statements.

今天我們作完準備好的發言後，將開放提問環節。請注意，本次電話會議中有關未來計畫、事件或業績的聲明，包括 2025 年全年展望和其他長期財務目標，均為前瞻性聲明。

These statements involve risks and uncertainties and are based on current assumptions. Consequently, actual results could differ materially from the expectations expressed in these forward-looking statements.

這些陳述涉及風險和不確定性，並且是基於當前的假設。因此，實際結果可能與這些前瞻性聲明中所表達的預期有重大差異。

I direct your attention to today's press release and the company's filings with the US Securities and Exchange Commission for a discussion of such risks and uncertainties.

請各位注意今天的新聞稿以及公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，其中討論了這些風險和不確定性。

Also note that certain financial measures that may be discussed on this call are expressed on a non-GAAP basis and have been adjusted from a related GAAP financial measure.

另請注意，本次電話會議中可能會討論的某些財務指標是按非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 計算的，並且已根據相關的公認會計準則 (GAAP) 財務指標進行了調整。

We have provided an explanation for and reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures in the earnings press release and in the investor presentation available on our website.

我們已在獲利新聞稿和我們網站上提供的投資者簡報中，對這些非GAAP財務指標與最直接可比較的GAAP財務指標進行了解釋和調節。

In addition, please note that all growth rates discussed on this call refer to a year-over-year basis unless otherwise indicated.

此外，請注意，除非另有說明，本次電話會議中討論的所有成長率均指同比增速。

The date of this conference call is October 30, 2025.

本次電話會議日期為2025年10月30日。

Any forward-looking statements and related assumptions are made as of this date.

所有前瞻性陳述及相關假設均截至本日期為止。

Except as required by law, we undertake no obligation to update these statements as a result of new information, future events, or for any other reason.

除法律另有規定外，我們不承擔因新資訊、未來事件或其他任何原因而更新這些聲明的義務。

I will now turn the call over to Victor.

現在我將把通話轉給維克多。

Thank you, Joe. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. Before turning to our results, I'd like to recap our progress in the transformation of OneSpan. 2024 was about fixing the cost structure of the business, ensuring that we could operate both business units in a profitable manner.

謝謝你，喬。大家好，感謝各位今天收看我們的節目。在介紹我們的表現之前，我想先回顧一下OneSpan轉型過程中所取得的進展。 2024年的重點是優化公司的成本結構，確保兩個業務部門都能獲利運作。

The OneSpan team did a great job working through those challenges, and we entered this year in a much improved operating position. In fact, that improved operating position will enable us to return about $25 million to shareholders between dividends and buybacks by the end of this year.

OneSpan 團隊出色地克服了這些挑戰，使我們今年的營運狀況有了很大的改善。事實上，營運狀況的改善將使我們能夠在今年年底前透過股利和股票回購向股東返還約 2,500 萬美元。

And in addition, we also completed an acquisition and made a strategic investment. All funded by cash generated by the business.

此外，我們還完成了一項收購並進行了策略性投資。全部資金均來自企業本身產生的現金流。

2025, as we have discussed previously, has been about putting the pieces in place while continuing to operate with strong profitability to enable growth. It has been a remarkable year in that respect. Indeed, today we announced that our software business, now over 80% of the overall business, delivered double-digit subscription revenue growth and ARR growth.

正如我們之前討論過的，2025 年的重點在於在保持強勁盈利能力的同時，為實現成長做好各項準備工作。從這個角度來看，今年是非同尋常的一年。事實上，我們今天宣布，我們的軟體業務（目前佔整體業務的 80% 以上）實現了兩位數的訂閱收入成長和 ARR 成長。

Turning to the specific components that we've been putting in place to drive growth. First, right before the year started, we hired a new CTO, Ashish Jain, to lead our R&D efforts and improve our internal development efforts. Second, in June, we acquired Nok Nok, bringing the best FIDO2 software product called S3 to our portfolio.

接下來，我們來看看為推動成長而採取的具體措施。首先，在年初之前，我們聘請了新的技術長 Ashish Jain 來領導我們的研發工作，並改善我們的內部開發工作。其次，在 6 月份，我們收購了 Nok Nok，將最好的 FIDO2 軟體產品 S3 納入了我們的產品組合。

I'm happy to report that in the first four months since the acquisition, we've already closed two new logos for S3, both in the low six-figure range, and we have built additional pipeline for Q4. We believe that there is a large opportunity in the coming years for S3 as FIDO2 becomes more widely adopted.

我很高興地報告，自收購以來的頭四個月裡，我們已經為 S3 簽下了兩個新訂單，每個訂單金額都在六位數左右，並且我們已經為第四季度建立了額外的銷售管道。我們認為，隨著 FIDO2 的更廣泛應用，S3 在未來幾年將迎來巨大的發展機會。

Initially, we see the US and Japan as the leading markets for FIDO2, but over the coming years, we expect passkeys to become the standard around the world.

最初，我們認為美國和日本是 FIDO2 的主要市場，但在未來幾年，我們預計密碼將成為全球標準。

Third, in October, we announced the strategic investment in and partnership with ThreatFabric to further enhance our value proposition to customers by offering mobile threat intelligence and fraud risk insights. We are in the midst of sales enablement so that our team can effectively sell the ThreatFabric products and are optimistic that those products will add to growth in 2026.

第三，10 月份，我們宣布對 ThreatFabric 進行策略性投資並與其建立合作夥伴關係，以透過提供行動威脅情報和詐欺風險洞察，進一步增強我們為客戶提供的價值主張。我們正在進行銷售賦能，以便我們的團隊能夠有效地銷售 ThreatFabric 產品，並且樂觀地認為這些產品將在 2026 年促進成長。

Finally, you should not in any way consider OneSpan to be finished in our efforts to improve the value that we provide to customers and hence our growth prospects as a business.

最後，您絕不應認為 OneSpan 在提升我們為客戶提供的價值以及我們作為企業的成長前景方面已經止步不前。

We are working on additional initiatives. While there might not be announcements each and every quarter, we will never be done improving our value proposition to customers, whether through internal development, through acquisitions, or through strategic partnerships.

我們正在推進其他項目。雖然我們可能不會每個季度都發佈公告，但我們將不斷改進我們為客戶創造的價值，無論是透過內部研發、收購還是策略合作。

And we expect these efforts to drive growth, particularly in our software business, as we continue to work towards achieving a Rule of 40 performance level.

我們期望這些努力能夠推動成長，尤其是在我們的軟體業務方面，因為我們將繼續努力實現 40 法則的績效水準。

Turning to our results, I'm pleased with the team's efficiency, which drove another strong quarter of profitability and cash generation, including $17.5 million of adjusted EBITDA, or 31% of revenue, and $11 million in cash from operations.

談到我們的業績，我對團隊的效率感到滿意，這推動了又一個強勁的季度盈利和現金流，其中包括 1750 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA（佔收入的 31%）和 1100 萬美元的經營活動現金流。

I'm especially proud that over the first nine months of the year, we generated record adjusted EBITDA of $58 million representing 32% of revenue, and $47 million in cash from operations.

我特別感到自豪的是，在今年前九個月，我們實現了創紀錄的調整後 EBITDA 5800 萬美元，佔收入的 32%，並且營運現金流為 4700 萬美元。

We ended the quarter with annual recurring revenue of $180 million, up 10% year over year.

本季末，我們實現了1.8億美元的年度經常性收入，年增10%。

In regards to revenue, we have seen strong bookings in certain regions, including our security business in North America, our Latin America business, and the southern portion of our EMEA region.

就收入而言，我們看到某些地區的預訂量強勁，包括我們在北美的安全業務、我們在拉丁美洲的業務以及我們 EMEA 地區的南部地區。

I'm also heartened by the progress in APAC, and our DA business grew subscription revenue by double digits.

亞太地區的進展也令我感到鼓舞，我們的DA業務訂閱收入實現了兩位數的成長。

And as I mentioned a few minutes ago, we're encouraged by the progress we've seen with our new S3 product acquired as part of the Nok Nok deal.

正如我幾分鐘前提到的，我們對收購 Nok Nok 而獲得的新 S3 產品所取得的進展感到鼓舞。

With respect to hardware, as we've discussed many times, there has been a long-term secular shift away from consumer banking tokens, to the point that in the first nine months of the year, hardware was less than 20% of our overall business. That trend is part of what drives us to broaden and strengthen our product offerings.

關於硬體方面，正如我們多次討論的那樣，消費者銀行代幣的需求已經出現了長期的長期趨勢，以至於今年前九個月，硬體業務在我們整體業務中所佔比例不到 20%。這種趨勢也是促使我們擴大和加強產品供應的部分原因。

In the quarter, total revenue grew 1% to $57 million, driven by double-digit organic subscription revenue growth. This growth was primarily offset by a reduction in security hardware revenue due to the shift described earlier in consumer banking strategies in EMEA and APAC, where banks continue adopting mobile-first authentication approaches.

本季總營收成長 1% 至 5,700 萬美元，主要得益於兩位數的有機訂閱收入成長。這一增長主要被安全硬體收入的減少所抵消，這是由於前面提到的 EMEA 和 APAC 地區消費者銀行業務策略的轉變所致，在這些地區，銀行繼續採用行動優先的身份驗證方法。

Subscription revenue grew 12%, led by 13% growth in security, and 11% growth in digital agreements. The increase in security subscription revenue was driven by both cloud and on-prem authentication software, along with mobile app shielding software.

訂閱收入成長了 12%，其中安全業務成長了 13%，數位協議業務成長了 11%。安全訂閱收入的成長主要得益於雲端和本地身份驗證軟體以及行動應用防護軟體。

Both business units remained solidly profitable at the segment level, with digital agreements delivering record-high segment operating income. Security absorbed a modest cost impact from the Nok Nok business in Q3, although we expect it to be accretive to security’s operating income in Q4.

兩個業務部門在分部層級均保持了穩健的獲利能力，其中數位協議帶來了創紀錄的分部營業收入。雖然我們預計 Nok Nok 業務將在第四季度增加保全部門的營業收入，但安保部門在第三季仍受到一定程度的成本影響。

As I mentioned earlier, we continue to generate significant cash from operations, $47 million in the first nine months of the year and we ended the third quarter with $86 million in cash on hand.

正如我之前提到的，我們繼續從經營活動中產生大量現金，今年前九個月為 4700 萬美元，第三季末我們手頭現金為 8600 萬美元。

In Q3, we used $6 million to repurchase shares of our common stock, and combined with our quarterly dividend payments, we returned more than $20 million to shareholders in the first nine months of 2025.

第三季度，我們用 600 萬美元回購了普通股，加上季度股息支付，我們在 2025 年前九個月向股東返還了超過 2,000 萬美元。

We also used cash to make the strategic acquisition of Nok Nok, and after the third quarter ended, to obtain a 15% equity stake in ThreatFabric.

我們也利用現金對 Nok Nok 進行了策略性收購，並在第三季結束後獲得了 ThreatFabric 15% 的股權。

Our investment in ThreatFabric, as well as our acquisition of Nok Nok in Q2, and our internal development efforts are designed to enhance our product portfolio and move faster to deliver great products that provide additional value to our customers.

我們對 ThreatFabric 的投資，以及我們在第二季度對 Nok Nok 的收購，還有我們的內部研發工作，旨在增強我們的產品組合，並更快地交付能夠為客戶帶來更多價值的優秀產品。

To that end, we will continue investing in internal R&D and pursuing targeted technology-driven investments with proven market fit to enhance our product portfolio.

為此，我們將繼續投資內部研發，並進行有針對性的、技術驅動型的、具有市場適應性的投資，以增強我們的產品組合。

Our board remains committed to a balanced capital allocation strategy, weighing shareholder returns, organic investments, and targeted M&A. Accordingly, the board will consider additional share repurchases and has approved another $0.12 per share dividend to be paid in the current quarter.

我們的董事會仍然致力於平衡的資本配置策略，權衡股東回報、內生投資和有針對性的併購。因此，董事會將考慮追加股票回購，並已批准在本季派發每股 0.12 美元的股息。

In summary, we're making solid progress in building the foundation for growth in our journey towards achieving Rule of 40 performance.

總而言之，我們在為實現「40法則」績效目標奠定成長基礎方面取得了堅實進展。

At the same time, we remain committed to driving efficient revenue growth while maintaining strong profitability and cash generation and returning capital to shareholders.

同時，我們將繼續致力於推動高效的收入成長，同時保持強勁的獲利能力和現金流，並將資本返還給股東。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Jorge.

這樣，我就把電話交給豪爾赫了。

Thank you, Victor, and good afternoon, everyone.

謝謝你，維克多，大家下午好。

I am pleased that we reported another strong quarter of adjusted EBITDA and cash generation, and that we are making good progress in building our long-term growth foundation.

我很高興我們又實現了強勁的季度調整後 EBITDA 和現金流，並且在建立長期成長基礎方面取得了良好進展。

Before I review our third quarter results, I want to remind you that our acquisition of Nok Nok Labs, which closed in June 2025, modestly contributed to our Q3 operating results this year, but did not contribute to the same period in 2024.

在回顧我們第三季業績之前，我想提醒各位，我們在 2025 年 6 月完成的對 Nok Nok Labs 的收購，對我們今年的第三季經營業績做出了適度貢獻，但對 2024 年同期沒有做出貢獻。

ARR increased 10% to $180 million and NRR, our net retention rate, increased sequentially to 103%. Third quarter revenue was $57.1 million, an increase of 1% compared to last year's Q3.

ARR 成長 10% 至 1.8 億美元，淨留存率 NRR 較上季成長至 103%。第三季營收為 5,710 萬美元，比去年同期成長 1%。

Subscription revenue grew 12%, including 10% organically, and was largely offset by the secular decline in our hardware token business, which is directly related to banks continuing with a mobile-first authentication approach and, to a lesser extent, maintenance and professional services revenues.

訂閱收入成長了 12%，其中 10% 為有機成長，但這一成長很大程度上被硬體令牌業務的長期下滑所抵消，這與銀行繼續採用行動優先驗證方法直接相關，並且在較小程度上與維護和專業服務收入的下滑相關。

Third quarter gross margin was 74%, consistent with last year's Q3.

第三季毛利率為74%，與去年第三季持平。

GAAP operating income was $8.2 million compared to $11.3 million in Q3 of last year. The change in operating income primarily reflects an increase in operating expenses, including share-based compensation and other non-recurring items, along with the expected dilution related to our acquisition of Nok Nok.

以美國通用會計準則計算，本季營業收入為 820 萬美元，而去年同期為 1,130 萬美元。營業收入的變化主要反映了營業費用的增加，包括股份支付和其他非經常性項目，以及我們收購 Nok Nok 帶來的預期股權稀釋。

As a reminder, we expect the acquisition of Nok Nok to be accretive to earnings in Q4 2025. GAAP net income per share was $0.17 as compared to $0.21 in the same period last year.

再次提醒，我們預計收購 Nok Nok 將在 2025 年第四季增加收益。以美國通用會計準則計算，每股淨收益為 0.17 美元，去年同期為 0.21 美元。

Earlier this year, we made changes to our non-GAAP net income and non-GAAP net income per share reporting framework to better reflect our profitability trajectory and to ensure consistency across interim periods in 2025 and in future years.

今年早些時候，我們對非GAAP淨收入和非GAAP每股淨收入報告框架進行了修改，以更好地反映我們的獲利軌跡，並確保2025年及未來幾年各中期期間的一致性。

Please refer to our 2025 quarterly earnings releases and investor presentations for additional details.

更多詳情請參閱我們 2025 年季度收益報告和投資者簡報。

Non-GAAP earnings per share was $0.33 in both the third quarter of 2025 and 2024. This metric excludes long-term incentive compensation and related payroll taxes, amortization, restructuring charges and other nonrecurring items and the impact of tax adjustments.

2025 年第三季和 2024 年第三季的非 GAAP 每股盈餘均為 0.33 美元。此指標不包括長期激勵性薪資及相關薪資稅、攤提、重組費用和其他非經常性項目以及稅務調整的影響。

Adjusted EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA margin was $17.5 million and 30.7% compared to $17 million and 30.2% in the same period of last year.

經過調整的 EBITDA 和經調整的 EBITDA 利潤率分別為 1,750 萬美元和 30.7%，而去年同期分別為 1,700 萬美元和 30.2%。

Turning to our cybersecurity business. ARR increased 11% to $115.5 million. Revenue decreased 1% to $40.3 million. Subscription revenue grew 13% driven by cloud and on-prem authentication software, including a modest contribution from Nok Nok and app shielding software. This growth was offset by the expected decline in hardware revenue and, to a lesser extent, maintenance and professional services revenues.

接下來談談我們的網路安全業務。年度經常性收入成長11%，達到1.155億美元。營收下降1%至4030萬美元。訂閱收入成長了 13%，這主要得益於雲端和本地身份驗證軟體的成長，其中 Nok Nok 和應用程式防護軟體也做出了適度的貢獻。這一成長被硬體收入的預期下降所抵消，維護和專業服務收入的下降幅度也較小。

Subscription revenue primarily benefited from expansion of licenses and to a lesser extent, new logos. The acquisition of Nok Nok and conversion of customer contracts to multiyear terms. Gross margin was 74.4%, and similar to last year's third quarter gross margin of 74.7%. The change in gross margin was primarily driven by product mix. Operating income was $16.7 million or 41% of revenue compared to $20.2 million or 49% of revenue in the prior year quarter. The year-over-year change primarily reflects increased operating expenses related to the Nok Nok acquisition, higher share-based compensation and other nonrecurring expenses, such as advisory related expenses.

訂閱收入主要受惠於授權範圍的擴大，其次是新商標的推出。收購 Nok Nok 並將客戶合約轉換為多年合約。毛利率為 74.4%，與去年第三季的毛利率 74.7% 相近。毛利率的變化主要是由產品組合變化所引起的。營業收入為 1,670 萬美元，佔營收的 41%，而上年同期為 2,020 萬美元，佔營收的 49%。與去年同期相比，主要變化反映了與收購 Nok Nok 相關的營運費用增加、更高的股權激勵費用以及其他非經常性支出，例如諮詢相關費用。

Turning to digital agreements. ARR grew 8% to $65 million. Revenue grew 9% to $16.7 million. New SaaS contracts, expansion of renewal contracts and an increase in onetime revenue was partially offset by reduced maintenance revenue from the sunsetting of our on-prem e-signature product. Subscription revenue grew 11% year-over-year to $16.7 million. Maintenance and support revenue was negligible compared to $0.3 million in Q3 of last year. The year-over-year decline is attributed to the sunsetting of our on-premise e-signature solution.

轉向數位化協議。年度經常性收入成長8%，達到6500萬美元。營收成長9%，達1670萬美元。新的 SaaS 合約、續約合約的擴大以及一次性收入的增加，部分被我們本地部署的電子簽名產品停產導致的維護收入減少所抵消。訂閱收入年增 11%，達到 1,670 萬美元。與去年第三季的 30 萬美元相比，維護和支援收入微乎其微。年比下降的原因是我們的本地電子簽名解決方案已停止使用。

As mentioned previously, we have substantially completed the transition to a SaaS business model in our digital agreements business. Gross margin was 72% and consistent with last year's third quarter. Segment operating income was $4.2 million or 25% of revenue compared to $3.4 million or 22% of revenue in Q3 of last year. The year-over-year increase in operating income was driven by increased revenue.

如前所述，我們的數位協議業務已基本完成向 SaaS 商業模式的轉型。毛利率為72%，與去年第三季持平。該部門營業收入為 420 萬美元，佔營收的 25%，而去年第三季為 340 萬美元，佔營收的 22%。營業收入年增主要得益於營收成長。

Now turning to our balance sheet. We ended the quarter with $85.6 million cash and cash equivalents compared to $92.9 million at the end of Q2 and $83.2 million at the end of 2024. We generated $11 million in operating cash flow during the quarter. Uses of cash in the quarter included $6.3 million to repurchase approximately 450,000 shares of common stock, $4.7 million to pay our quarterly cash dividend and $1.9 million deferred consideration payment related to our acquisition of Nok Nok among other items. We have no long-term debt as of the end of Q3 2025.

現在來看我們的資產負債表。本季末，我們的現金及現金等價物為 8,560 萬美元，而第二季末為 9,290 萬美元，2024 年底為 8,320 萬美元。本季我們實現了1,100萬美元的營運現金流。本季現金用途包括：630萬美元用於回購約45萬股普通股；470萬美元用於支付季度現金股利；以及190萬美元用於支付與收購Nok Nok相關的遞延對價，此外還有其他項目。截至 2025 年第三季末，我們沒有長期債務。

Geographically, our revenue mix was 46% from the Americas, 38% from EMEA and 17% from APAC. This compares to 39%, 40% and 21%, respectively, in the third quarter of last year. The year-over-year changes by region were primarily driven by growth in the e-signature business and mobile application security in North America. The acquisition of Nok Nok in June 2025, which has its largest presence in North America, growth in hardware revenue in Latin America and a decline in hardware revenues in both Europe and Asia Pacific, consistent with mobile first strength in those regions.

從地理來看，我們的收入組成中，46%來自美洲，38%來自歐洲、中東和非洲地區，17%來自亞太地區。相比之下，去年第三季這三個數字分別為 39%、40% 和 21%。各地區年比變化主要由北美電子簽名業務和行動應用程式安全業務的成長所驅動。2025 年 6 月收購 Nok Nok，該公司在北美擁有最大的市場份額，拉丁美洲的硬體收入增長，而歐洲和亞太地區的硬體收入下降，這與這些地區以行動優先為主導的優勢相一致。

Moving to some modeling notes on our financial outlook. We are very pleased with our Q3 profitability and cash generation and the progress we've made in positioning the company for long-term growth. As Victor mentioned, we are seeing strong bookings in most geographic regions but have also seen challenges in some regions largely due to the secular shift away from consumer banking hardware tokens. We are working hard to improve our sales momentum in all regions and believe the steps we have taken this year, combined with our continuous focus on improving the value proposition we provide to customers better positions us for stronger growth in future years.

接下來談談我們對財務前景的一些建模說明。我們對第三季的獲利能力和現金流以及我們在為公司長期成長做好準備方面取得的進展感到非常滿意。正如 Victor 所提到的，我們看到大多數地區的預訂量都很強勁，但也看到一些地區面臨挑戰，這主要是由於消費銀行硬體代幣的長期趨勢轉變所致。我們正努力提升各地區的銷售勢頭，並相信今年我們採取的措施，加上我們不斷專注於提升為客戶提供的價值主張，將使我們在未來幾年實現更強勁的成長。

For the full year 2025, we are updating our revenue guidance to be in the range of $239 million to $241 million as compared to our previous guidance range of $245 million to $251 million. We expect software and services revenue to be in the range of $190 million to $192 million, representing an increase of between 3% and 4% in 2025. We also expect hardware revenue to be in the range of $49 million to $50 million, representing an approximately a 16% decline from 2024. As Victor mentioned previously, OneSpan as a business is approximately 80% software and 20% hardware. We are updating our ARR guidance to be in the range of $183 million to $187 million, up from $180 million at the end of the third quarter as compared to our previous guidance range of $186 million to $192 million, and we are maintaining our adjusted EBITDA guidance in the range of $72 million to $76 million.

對於 2025 年全年，我們將營收預期更新為 2.39 億美元至 2.41 億美元，而我們先前的預期範圍為 2.45 億美元至 2.51 億美元。我們預計到 2025 年，軟體和服務收入將在 1.9 億美元至 1.92 億美元之間，成長 3% 至 4%。我們也預計硬體收入將在 4,900 萬美元至 5,000 萬美元之間，比 2024 年下降約 16%。正如 Victor 之前提到的，OneSpan 的業務大約 80% 是軟體，20% 是硬體。我們將年度經常性收入 (ARR) 預期值更新為 1.83 億美元至 1.87 億美元，高於第三季末的 1.8 億美元，也高於我們先前的預期值 1.86 億美元至 1.92 億美元；同時，我們維持調整後 EBITDA 預期值在 7,200 萬美元至 7,600 萬美元之間。

That concludes my remarks. I will now turn the call over to Victor.

我的發言到此結束。現在我將把通話轉給維克多。

Thanks, Jorge. To recap, we are making progress in strengthening our foundation for long-term growth. while continuing to deliver strong profitability and cash generation and returning capital to shareholders. We are working hard to deliver greater value to our customers and to create value for our shareholders.

謝謝你，豪爾赫。總而言之，我們在夯實長期成長基礎方面取得了進展，同時繼續保持強勁的獲利能力和現金流，並向股東返還資本。我們正努力為客戶創造更大價值，並為股東創造價值。

Jorge and I will now be happy to take your questions.

現在我和豪爾赫很樂意回答大家的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Anja Soderstrom, Sidoti.

安雅·索德斯特羅姆，西多蒂。

Hi, and thank you for taking my question.

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。

I'm just curious, what are you saying now compared to last quarter that led you to scale back on the revenue and ARR guidance, if you can just double to that a bit more.

我只是好奇，與上個季度相比，您現在下調收入和年度經常性收入預期的原因是什麼？如果您能再稍微提高一點預期就好了。

There were some feedback. So can you repeat your question for me?

收到了一些回饋意見。那麼，你能再說一次你的問題嗎？

Yes. Can you just sort of double-click on what you're seeing now compared to last quarter that led you to scale back on the revenue and ARR guidance for the year?

是的。能否請您雙擊查看一下您現在看到的情況與上個季度相比有哪些變化，正是這些變化導致您下調了今年的收入和年度經常性收入預期？

Yes, I can start, and then Vic if you want to chime in as well. So there's a couple of things, Anja. First is we saw a little bit of a higher headwinds with respect to our hardware business, about a couple of million dollars. I think the other large component was on the security business, specifically we saw lower activity with respect to net expansions and new logos, primarily net expansions as we have a large market share in our security business outside of North America. So I think EMEA and APAC have some of that, primarily EMEA.

是的，我可以先開始，Vic，如果你也想加入的話。安雅，有兩件事要說。首先，我們的硬體業務遇到了一些較大的阻力，損失大約有幾百萬美元。我認為另一個重要因素是安防業務，具體來說，我們在淨擴張和新客戶開發方面活動減少，主要是淨擴張減少，因為我們在北美以外的安防業務市場份額很大。所以我認為歐洲、中東和非洲地區以及亞太地區都存在這種情況，尤其是歐洲、中東和非洲地區。

Now I don't think -- I think it's an important thing to understand a couple of questions. One is, when we think about I'm -- I'm hearing some feedback. One is when you think about where we are with our guide -- our updated guidance of, say 240 at the midpoint, that is modestly lower versus prior year you're about 1% lower, Anjau. And I think we need to take a step back in terms of understanding the position of the company is today versus what it was, say, 12 months ago. We've done a lot of good work, as Victor mentioned in his remarks with respect to building the foundation for growth, the Nok Nok acquisition that we did very, very good capabilities that we're adding to our product portfolio.

現在我不認為——我認為理解幾個問題很重要。一是，當我們想到「我」的時候——我聽到了一些回饋。一方面，想想我們目前的指導方針——例如我們更新後的指導方針，中點為 240，這比前一年略低，大約低了 1%，Anjau。我認為我們需要退後一步，重新審視一下公司目前的處境，並與 12 個月前的情況進行比較。正如 Victor 在演講中提到的，我們在為成長奠定基礎方面做了很多好事，例如收購 Nok Nok，我們獲得了非常好的能力，並將這些能力添加到我們的產品組合中。

ThreadFabric strategic investment that we are very excited about as well. So we're looking at enhanced. We've been enhancing our product portfolio this year to deliver on that software. And it's really when you think about what we've done is primarily on the software areas, right? So we really enhanced our software product portfolio and capabilities to really position the company for future growth in the next few years. And so more and more as the hardware sector, the client continues. So that's going to be less and less impactful to us. And we mentioned this software is about 80% of our business, hardware is 20% and potentially lower in the next few quarters.

ThreadFabric 的策略性投資也讓我們感到非常興奮。所以我們正在研究增強型方案。今年我們一直在完善產品組合，以實現該軟體的目標。仔細想想，我們所做的一切主要都集中在軟體領域，對吧？因此，我們切實增強了軟體產品組合和能力，為公司未來幾年的發展奠定了堅實的基礎。因此，隨著硬體產業的不斷發展，客戶的需求也越來越高。所以這對我們來說影響會越來越小。我們之前提到過，軟體業務約占我們業務的 80%，硬體業務佔 20%，未來幾季硬體業務佔比可能會下降。

And all of this with, obviously, the strong cash flow generation and profitability and that we should expect to continue. And so I just want to take a step back and walk you through it because what we're doing is really transforming the product capabilities for the organization. And so the decline in the guide, although due to partly the hardware and also a little less activity, we're really thinking about 2025 as a foundation here to build in blocks from our product capability. I don't know Vic if you have any additional thoughts.

顯然，所有這一切都建立在強勁的現金流和獲利能力之上，我們應該期待這種情況能夠持續下去。所以我想退後一步，帶大家了解一下，因為我們所做的實際上是在改變組織的產品能力。因此，儘管部分原因是硬體問題以及活動減少，但指南的下滑實際上是由於 2025 年作為基礎，從我們的產品能力中逐步建立。維克，我不知道你還有沒有其他想法。

Yes. Let me just add to what Jorge said. So obviously, the specifics he gave are correct. But if I zoom out a little bit and just think about the business from when I joined almost two years in a few months, and two years ago, about athird of our revenue was hardware. And now it's about 20%. We ended 2023 years ago with AR of $155 million and the midpoint of our guidance for the last quarter would have us ending up at $185 million, so $155 million to $185 million. And a couple of years ago, from a product standpoint, we had not introduced any new capabilities in quite some time. In fact, you saw sunsetting products so it was important for us to, first of all, build the foundation of profitability so that we could invest back in the business while returning capital to shareholders. .

是的。我只想補充一下豪爾赫剛才說的話。所以很明顯，他給的具體資訊是正確的。但如果我稍微放眼長遠，回想一下我加入公司時（差不多兩年了）的情況，兩年前，我們大約三分之一的收入來自硬體。現在大約是 20%。2023 年末，我們的應收帳款為 1.55 億美元，而我們對上一季的業績預期中位數為 1.85 億美元，因此應收帳款在 1.55 億美元至 1.85 億美元之間。幾年前，從產品角度來看，我們已經很久沒有推出任何新功能了。事實上，我們看到一些產品即將停產，因此對我們來說，首先重要的是要建立獲利基礎，以便我們能夠將資金再投資於業務，同時向股東返還資本。。

And we've started to do that, not just with the acquisition and the strategic investment, but also internally with the hiring of a new CTO and internal investment. And so that's what we're working on to transform the business. And keep in mind, that the Nok Nok acquisition happened in June, the ThreadFabric strategic investment was October. So we'll get some positive impact from Nok Nok but we expect to in the future and ThreatFabric is largely a 2026 story. And we're continuing to work on other things as we continue to try to improve the value proposition that we're offering to our customers.

我們已經開始這樣做，不僅透過收購和策略投資，而且透過內部招募新的技術長和內部投資。所以，這就是我們正在努力的方向，目的是改變這個現狀。請記住，Nok Nok 的收購發生在 6 月，ThreadFabric 的策略投資發生在 10 月。所以 Nok Nok 會為我們帶來一些正面影響，但我們預期未來才會看到這些影響，而 ThreatFabric 的故事主要要到 2026 年才會發生。我們將繼續努力，改進我們為客戶提供的價值主張，同時也持續研究其他方面。

Okay. And then in terms of the hardware, do you see that being shipped out to the right? Or is it just sort of a decline in demand overall?

好的。那麼就硬體方面而言，您認為這些硬體會運往右邊嗎？或者說，這只是整體需求下降？

Well, if you talk to our customers, 10 to 12 years ago, customers in EMEA and in APAC, they might have had 100% of their consumers. -- using consumer banking tokens to log on to authenticate. I was in Europe last month, and we had a meeting with eight banks and we were surveying them. What percentage are using hardware now it was about 20%. So most of their customers have moved over to mobile authentication. And we see that in our business. Look at our business 10 years ago took what it is on the hardware side, it's probably 20% of the size. We don't think that number is going to zero, by the way. There are people who prefer hardware, and we don't -- maybe that goes down to 15% of their consumers or 12%. So we don't think it's going to zero. But that's been a long-term trend. And it's important for us to manage around that, not only with our mobile authentication offerings that we entered 6 years ago, but also with newer protocols like FIDO that we acquired through the Nok Nok acquisition.

如果你和我們的客戶談談，你會發現，10到12年前，歐洲、中東和非洲以及亞太地區的客戶，他們可能100%的客戶都使用消費者銀行令牌進行登入驗證。我上個月去了歐洲，我們與八家銀行舉行了會議，並對它們進行了調查。現在使用硬體的使用者比例約為20%。因此，他們的大部分客戶都已轉向行動身份驗證。我們在自己的業務中也看到了這一點。回顧我們 10 年前的業務，就硬體方面而言，規模可能只有現在的 20%。順便說一句，我們認為這個數字不會變成零。有些人喜歡硬件，而我們不喜歡——也許這部分消費者只佔他們的 15% 或 12%。所以我們認為它不會降到零。但這其實是一種長期趨勢。對我們來說，管理好這一點非常重要，不僅包括我們 6 年前推出的行動身分驗證產品，還包括我們透過收購 Nok Nok 獲得的 FIDO 等較新的協議。

Okay, thank you. And then in terms of the margin, how should we think about that? It seems like even though we'll have more hardware in the fourth quarter, this quarter compared to last year's fourth quarter. The gross margin is going to be higher. I get it right here. But how should we think about the gross margin altogether? And then also on the operating expenses. Do you see that now after you done all your tops, how should we think about growth in that in the coming years?

好的，謝謝。那麼，就利潤率而言，我們該如何考慮呢？雖然第四季度我們將擁有更多硬件，但與去年第四季相比，本季似乎仍會有所減少。毛利率將會更高。我明白了。但我們該如何整體看待毛利率呢？此外還有營運費用。現在你已經完成了所有的上半部分，你是否意識到，在未來幾年裡，我們應該如何看待這方面的成長？

Yes, I can answer that. Thanks for the question. So from a hardware perspective, I think it's probably going to be even with last year, Anja, the hardware revenue, we mentioned that during the last call in terms of the split and that we see what we have today. And then from a gross margin perspective, is going to be, I would say, probably similar to last year's Q4, Anja. And so that will put the full year gross margin in around 73-ish percent slightly higher than last year's, which I think was [72%] and then from an operating expense perspective, one thing to keep in mind in the year-over-year is the Nok Nok acquisition.

是的，我可以回答這個問題。謝謝你的提問。所以從硬體的角度來看，我認為今年的硬體收入可能與去年持平，Anja，我們在上次電話會議上提到了硬體收入的分配情況，以及我們今天所看到的。從毛利率的角度來看，我認為可能會與去年第四季類似，安雅。因此，全年毛利率將達到 73% 左右，略高於去年的 72%。從營運費用的角度來看，同比數據中需要注意的一點是 Nok Nok 的收購。

So for the quarter, it's around -- I'm just going to do a round number. It's around $2 million on a run rate basis that we'll be adding year-over-year. And then obviously, we've done some also incremental investments in R&D and things like that. And I don't expect it sequentially to increase dramatically compared to what you saw in Q3. but there will be maybe a modest increase because of that. Thanks.

所以這個季度大概是──我就取個整數吧。以年計算，我們將每年增加約 200 萬美元。當然，我們也對研發等方面進行了一些增量投資。我預計與第三季相比，環比成長不會非常顯著，但可能會因此出現小幅成長。謝謝。

Okay, great. Thank you, that was all for me.

好的，太好了。謝謝，我的話就這些了。

Catherine Trebnick, Rosenblatt Securities.

Catherine Trebnick，Rosenblatt Securities。

Oh, thanks for taking my question. Can you just in a snapshot, your product road map, where you feel that the deficiencies, these headwinds that you've been experiencing just really, what are the two or three products do you think in the next 12 to 24 months are going to make up for this gap we've been having. Thanks.

哦，謝謝你回答我的問題。能否簡單介紹一下您的產品路線圖，您認為目前存在的不足和遇到的困難是什麼？您認為在未來 12 到 24 個月內，哪兩三款產品能彌補我們目前面臨的差距？謝謝。

Yes, sure. Let me talk a little bit about that. I don't know that I would describe it as a deficiency. We have very good mobile authentication technology. But as you know, multifactor authentication has been around for a long time. Everyone is familiar with getting in the US, you get an SMS text message with it or you might get an e-mail and overseas onetime passcodes are widely used as well, although not SMS. So everyone is very familiar with multifactor authentication. So that protocol or approach has been widely adopted.

當然可以。讓我稍微談談這方面。我不太確定這是否算是一種缺陷。我們擁有非常先進的行動身份驗證技術。但正如您所知，多因素身份驗證技術已經存在很長時間了。在美國，大家都熟悉取得驗證碼的方式，你會收到一封簡訊或一封電子郵件；海外也廣泛使用一次性驗證碼，儘管不是透過簡訊。所以大家都很熟悉多因素身份驗證。因此，該協議或方法已被廣泛採用。

And as Jorge mentioned, we have good market share there. And even our NRR in security in Q3, I think it was 101 or it will be about 101 for the year. So it's very solid. But over time, technology has changed, and we're seeing that with the adoption of passkeys. With FID02, we're going to see much broader adoption of passkeys as we move through the rest of the decade. And we think it's important for us to broaden our offering so that we have not just the mobile authentication on top of the hardware authentication that existed many years ago and still exists for a portion of their customers but also enables passkeys at a very, very scalable level. It also has very good latency and we've proven it out at scale with many different customers. So we think that's going to be a very interesting area for growth.

正如豪爾赫所提到的，我們在那裡擁有良好的市場份額。即使是我們第三季的安保業務淨收入，我認為也是 101，或者說全年應該也會是 101 左右。所以它非常堅固。但隨著時間的推移，技術發生了變化，我們從密碼鎖的普及中就可以看到這一點。隨著 FID02 標準的實施，在接下來的十年裡，我們將看到通行密鑰得到更廣泛的應用。我們認為，擴大我們的產品和服務範圍非常重要，這樣我們不僅能在多年前就已存在、現在仍然為部分客戶提供的硬體身份驗證之上提供移動身份驗證，還能以非常非常可擴展的方式實現通行密鑰。它的延遲也非常好，我們已經透過與許多不同客戶的大規模合作證明了這一點。所以我們認為這將會是一個非常有趣的成長領域。

Thank you. That was very helpful. And then anything you can add on digital agreements and what you're seeing there? And how you expect growth there to pan out in the next 12 months?

謝謝。那很有幫助。那麼，關於數位協議以及您看到的情況，您還有什麼要補充的嗎？您預計未來 12 個月該地區的成長情況會如何？

Yes. We've been doing pretty well there. I think if you look at the growth, it's been in the mid- to upper single digits, and we expect it's October 30. So you can't be too certain about how Q4 is going to go, but we feel pretty good about the Q4 pipeline. And we think we have an opportunity to not just expand with customers we already have, but also to land some new ones. And that's an area where our internal development, I mentioned internal development, and that's an area where we'll be using AI in the product more in the coming 12 months. That's an area for us, a focus area for us in the coming months. So we think that's going to be a strong product, continue to be a strong product.

是的。我們在那裡做得相當不錯。我認為，從成長情況來看，成長率一直保持在個位數中高段，我們預計到 10 月 30 日將達到這個數字。所以你無法非常確定第四季會如何發展，但我們對第四季的計畫進展感覺相當樂觀。我們認為我們不僅有機會拓展現有客戶群，而且還有機會贏得一些新客戶。而這正是我們內部研發的重點領域，我剛才提到了內部研發，在未來 12 個月內，我們將在產品中更多地使用人工智慧。這是我們的工作領域，也是我們未來幾個月的重點工作領域。所以我們認為這將是一款強勁的產品，並且會一直保持強勁的市場地位。

And obviously, we're always trying to do better and have better results. But I think we're making very good progress on the DA business. And the other piece, Catherine, on the DA business, Jorge mentioned this, is record operating income this quarter, I think, 25%. So when you layer that on top of the growth there, the numbers start to -- that business starts to look more and more appealing.

顯然，我們一直在努力做得更好，取得更好的成績。但我認為我們在DA業務方面取得了非常好的進展。凱瑟琳，關於DA業務的另一部分，豪爾赫也提到過，本季營業收入創歷史新高，我認為是25%。所以，當這些因素疊加到當地的成長之上時，這些數字就開始——這項業務看起來越來越有吸引力了。

All right.. Thank you very much.

好的..非常感謝。

Erik Suppiger, B. Riley Securities.

Erik Suppiger，B. Riley Securities。

Yeah, thanks for taking the question. First off you're taking a lot of steps this year to start accelerating growth as you get into '26 and it's mostly on the software side, can we assume that your subscription revenue growth in '26 should accelerate over '25, if we anticipate double-digit growth in '25. Can it accelerate from there in '26.

好的，謝謝你回答這個問題。首先，您今年採取了許多措施來加速成長，尤其是在進入 2026 年之際，而且這些措施主要集中在軟體方面。如果我們預期 2025 年的訂閱營收成長將達到兩位數，那麼我們可以假設 2026 年的訂閱營收成長將比 2025 年更快嗎？2026年它能否從那裡開始加速？

Jorge, I don't know if you want to talk about the specifics, but that's absolutely, our aim is to continue to improve the software business. I think software as a percentage of revenue, we're at 80% now, and it probably gets to, I don't know, 82% or 83% next year. Jorge, I don't know if you want to talk to any of the specifics on --

豪爾赫，我不知道你是否想談談具體細節，但我們的目標絕對是繼續改進軟體業務。我認為軟體收入佔總收入的比例現在是 80%，明年可能會達到 82% 或 83%。豪爾赫，我不知道你是否想談具體細節。--

Yes. So I think just the one thing that I would add is Erik, is the -- I think the subscription, yes. I think when you look at the different components of revenue for security, you have to take into account maintenance and some of that -- those dynamics in terms of the perpetual term -- so main will be a little bit choppy, right? But I think if you are focused on the subscription security. I think that's a fair, assessment.

是的。所以我覺得我唯一要補充的是，Erik，是——我認為是訂閱，是的。我認為，在考慮安保收入的不同組成部分時，必須考慮到維護成本以及其他一些因素——這些因素與永久期限有關——所以主要收入會有些波動，對吧？但我認為，如果您關注的是訂閱安全。我認為這是一個合理的評價。

Okay. Good. Good. I know you don't have much exposure to federal, but any comments on federal and if the shutdown is giving you any pause? .

好的。好的。好的。我知道你對聯邦政府了解不多，但你對聯邦政府有什麼看法？政府停擺是否讓你有所顧慮？。

We have a ton of exposure. Yeah, go ahead, Jorge.

我們獲得了大量的曝光機會。好的，請便，豪爾赫。

I would say no. I think we're lucky in that sense, Erik, that we really haven't felt it. We have a little bit exposure in our digital agreements business but it has not been anything material at all luckily, knock on wood. And so I think from that standpoint, the shutdown has been a nonevent for us.

我會說不。艾瑞克，從這個意義上說，我認為我們很幸運，因為我們還沒有真正感受到這一點。我們在數位協議業務方面有一些風險敞口，但幸運的是，目前為止還沒有造成任何實質損失，但願以後也不會有太大影響。所以我覺得從這個角度來看，停擺對我們來說並沒有造成任何影響。

Okay. And then lastly, just a follow-up on Catherine's question. What is -- is there any change or any -- has there been any intensity of competition? Or has the market dynamics changed at all in terms of software solution -- software authentication for banks? Is there any change in that market?

好的。最後，我想就凱瑟琳的問題補充一點。情況如何？是否存在任何變化？競爭強度是否有增加？或者說，就銀行軟體認證等軟體解決方案而言，市場動態是否發生了任何變化？那個市場有什麼變化嗎？

No. I think if you actually look at our business, we've been doing quite well in North America. We started in North American security sales effort about 15 months ago, July of '24. But that's a small -- historically, a small portion of our business. So although the -- there's been good progress, it's from a small base. So we're doing well there. We've mentioned on previous calls quite a few times, I think, that the economic environment in Europe was a little bit more challenging for us. And I think that that's historically been a very large part of our business. So I think that has impacted us to a certain extent, it hasn't been the strongest economy there.

不。我認為，如果你仔細觀察我們的業務，你會發現我們在北美做得相當不錯。我們大約在 15 個月前，也就是 2024 年 7 月，開始了北美安防銷售工作。但從歷史上看，這只是我們業務的一小部分。所以儘管——已經取得了不錯的進展，但基礎仍然很小。所以，我們那邊進展順利。我想，我們在先前的電話會議中已經多次提到，歐洲的經濟環境對我們來說更具挑戰性。我認為這在歷史上一直是我們業務中非常重要的一部分。所以我認為這在某種程度上影響了我們，那裡的經濟一直不太強勁。

Okay. But it's not -- there's no particular change from a competitive perspective?

好的。但事實並非如此——從競爭角度來看，並沒有特別的改變？

No. No. If anything, I think we're becoming more competitive as we add new capabilities I've mentioned S3 a few times, but it has some large customers that were going to start rolling out. And I think it overall helps our competitive position compared to six months ago.

不。不。如果有什麼改變的話，我認為隨著我們不斷增加新功能，我們的競爭力反而增強了。我之前提到過 S3 幾次，它有一些大客戶即將開始部署。我認為這總體上提升了我們的競爭力，比六個月前更有優勢。

Then last question. In terms of the FIDO2 push, how -- what progress have you made with channel partners? Have you been -- what progress have you made with channel partners on that front?

最後一個問題。就 FIDO2 的推廣而言，您在與通路夥伴的合作中取得了哪些進展？您在這方面與通路夥伴取得了哪些進展？

Well, I want to talk in general about the FIDO2 push in the S3 product. I mentioned we got our first two new logos, which is good within within four months of closing the deal. And we have others in line, some of which are from channel partners. One of those two actually was from a channel partner, one of those two new logos I mentioned. And we think that, that is obviously going to be an important method for sales heading into 2026. That product, I mean, just to FIDO2 is an open protocol, right? So you can stand up your FIDO2 server if you want. But what you get from is S3 is extreme scalability, where you can scale it up to millions and millions and millions of users.

我想大致談談 S3 產品中 FIDO2 的推廣情況。我提到過，我們在交易完成後的四個月內就拿到了前兩個新標誌，這很不錯。我們還有其他產品正在排隊，其中一些來自通路合作夥伴。這兩個標誌中有一個實際上來自通路合作夥伴，就是我提到的那兩個新標誌之一。我們認為，這顯然將是2026年銷售的重要方法。我的意思是，該產品僅支援 FIDO2，FIDO2 是一個開放協議，對吧？所以，如果你願意的話，可以搭建自己的 FIDO2 伺服器。但 S3 的優勢在於其極強的可擴展性，可以擴展到數百萬甚至數百萬用戶。

I alluded to this earlier, you get excellent performance with respect to latency. A great management console to make it easy to administer and also flexible deployment. This is something that we're well known for. You can deploy it in the cloud or on-prem and there are customers with both deployment modes. So it's a very appealing offering, I think, in the financial services world because some banks, as everyone knows, some large banks still prefer on-prem. So we give them maximum flexibility.

我之前提到過，在延遲方面，這款產品性能優異。強大的管理控制台，方便管理，部署靈活。這是我們非常擅長的。您可以將其部署在雲端或本地，並且有些客戶同時採用了這兩種部署模式。所以我認為，這在金融服務領域是一個非常有吸引力的產品，因為眾所周知，一些大型銀行仍然更喜歡本地部署。所以我們給予他們最大的彈性。

Are those customers buying the tokens from you as well, the FIDO2 tokens?

這些客戶也是跟你們購買 FIDO2 代幣嗎？

So the FIDO2 tokens, this is an interesting another area, right? So we started developing those internally. That was internal development. And we feel good about that business as we move forward. We have quite a bit of pipeline. We're expecting orders. We've gotten some orders already. And we expect that to be a more meaningful revenue contribution in 2026 than it is today. So if you think about consumer banking tokens, if that continues to decline, the FIDO2 security keys could perhaps offset some of the secular consumer banking token decline.

所以，FIDO2 代幣，這是另一個有趣的領域，對吧？所以我們開始在內部開發這些產品。那是內部研發。我們對這項業務的未來發展充滿信心。我們有很多管道。我們正在等待訂單。我們已經收到一些訂單了。我們預計到 2026 年，這將比現在帶來更顯著的收入貢獻。因此，如果你考慮消費銀行代幣，如果它繼續下降，FIDO2 安全金鑰或許可以抵消消費銀行代幣的長期下降趨勢。

Very good. Thank you.

非常好。謝謝。

Gray Powell, BTIG.

Gray Powell，BTIG。

Okay, great. Thanks for taking the questions. Hey look, I only have one question, but I'm going to break it down into 27 parts. Is that okay?

好的，太好了。謝謝您回答問題。嘿，聽著，我只有一個問題，但我會把它分成 27 個部分來問。這樣可以嗎？

Sure, Gray. Go ahead. Okay.

當然，格雷。前進。好的。

Now just -- okay, so just really just two questions on my side. And more or less hit on this. When a customer elects to not renew hardware tokens, I'm going to assume it creates an opportunity to upsell your mobile security suite and then I just -- like, is that the case, like it is a direct shot? Or is there more of a jump ball situation where you have to fend off that customer from other competitors?

現在，好吧，我其實只有兩個問題。基本上說對了。當客戶選擇不續訂硬體令牌時，我會認為這是一個推銷行動安全套件的機會，然後我就——就像，情況真是這樣嗎，就像這是一個直接的推銷機會？或者，情況更像是爭球，你必須從其他競爭對手手中搶走這個客戶？

Well, it could be a jump ball situation. But in a lot of these cases, I alluded to customers saying they have 20% of their consumers using hardware. So in many cases, it's already happened. They were a dozen years ago at 100% of their consumers using hardware. And now they've moved over to mobile for the majority of their consumers, younger consumers, new accounts, and they might have been five years ago, 40% of their consumers using hardware. And so that number has been declining over time. It does tend, by the way, to have heavier use cases in the corporate banking market where you might see 50% of consumers -- not consumers, but companies using hardware tokens, why is that the case? .

嗯，這可能是一場爭球。但在許多情況下，我暗示客戶表示，他們有 20% 的消費者在使用硬體。所以很多情況下，這種情況已經發生了。十二年前，他們的消費者100%都使用硬體。現在，他們的大部分消費者，尤其是年輕消費者和新用戶，都轉向了行動裝置。而五年前，他們可能只有 40% 的消費者使用硬體設備。因此，隨著時間的推移，這個數字一直在下降。順便一提，硬體令牌在企業銀行市場往往有更重的應用場景，你可能會看到 50% 的消費者——不是消費者，而是公司——在使用硬體令牌，這是為什麼？。

Well, corporate banking very often still happens in front of a large screen in front of a computer, not on a mobile phone. The more you're using a mobile phone, the more mobile authentication is likely to be used. So Gray, when you see a bank go from 40% consumer banking token, to 20%. It's not really a jump ball situation. Yes, there's more opportunity for mobile authentication licenses. But we're not getting as much revenue upfront from those as we are from the hardware tokens.

嗯，企業銀行業務通常仍然是在電腦前的大螢幕前進行的，而不是在手機上進行的。你使用手機的頻率越高，就越有可能使用行動身分驗證。所以格雷，當你看到一家銀行的消費銀行業務從 40% 降至 20% 時，你會怎麼想？這其實不是一個需要爭搶球權的情況。是的，行動身份驗證許可證方面有更多機會。但是，我們從這些代幣中獲得的初始收入不如從硬體代幣中獲得的收入那麼多。

Understood. That's helpful. And I guess maybe the bigger question for me personally, just on the ARR side, can you talk about the visibility you have on late-stage deals and pipeline just like the overall confidence level you have in the Q4 ARR guide just because it does imply a decent uptick in the pace of net adds from what we've seen the last four or five quarters. And look, I know it's Q4, which is some seasonality. But any color there would be greatly appreciated.

明白了。那很有幫助。我個人認為，就 ARR 而言，更重要的問題是，您能否談談您對後期交易和銷售管道的可見性，以及您對第四季度 ARR 指引的整體信心水平，因為這確實意味著淨新增用戶速度較過去四五個季度有了顯著提升。我知道現在是第四季度，這有一定的季節性因素。但任何顏色都會非常受歡迎。

Jorge, you can talk about the model. I'm happy to talk about the outlook. So go ahead, and I'll let you start.

豪爾赫，你可以談談這個模型。我很樂意談談前景。那麼，請開始吧。

Well, I think -- so from a model perspective, so we obviously take into account what is going to renew, Gray, what is the potential expansion based on opportunities that we see in pipeline and obviously, talking to our sales leaders and all that. So we have weekly call, we have visibility to that. And that is part of how we build our ARR forecast, okay? What is the risk? Is there any slippage going in it, obviously, as you know, with term and something falls out of it for more than 90 days, we take it out of ARR. And so it's an active -- it's an active discussion that comes in with the sales to understand what is the potential rate, what is the potential expansion. And this applies to both business units. These are agreements as well as security. And it's an active dialogue. And so it is sort of like a bottoms up if you where we try to -- we model a forecast, it is when it's Q1 or the same quarter, it is sort of a bottoms up, Greg, and it's all about execution, making sure that we can close those. And not everything is going to be perfect like everything else. Sometimes it's art, it's not a science, but we try to -- so we do have I would say, within the quarter, some visibility, right?

嗯，我認為——從模型的角度來看，我們顯然會考慮到哪些方面將會更新，Gray，以及基於我們在銷售管道中看到的機會的潛在擴張，當然，我們還會與我們的銷售主管進行溝通等等。所以我們每週都會進行電話會議，我們可以了解會議內容。這就是我們建立 ARR 預測的一部分方法，好嗎？風險是什麼？顯然，如您所知，如果期限超過 90 天，並且有東西從期限中消失，我們會將其從 ARR 中扣除。因此，銷售人員會積極參與討論，以了解潛在的成長率和潛在的擴張幅度。這一點適用於這兩個業務部門。這些既是協議，也是保障。而且，這是一場正面的對話。所以，如果我們嘗試建立預測模型，這有點像是自下而上的方法——無論是在第一季度還是同一季度，這都是一種自下而上的方法，格雷格，關鍵在於執行，確保我們能夠完成這些目標。但並非所有事情都會像其他事情一樣完美。有時候它是藝術，而不是科學，但我們努力做到——所以我想說，在這個領域內，我們確實有一定的知名度，對吧？

There are some bluebirds that happen that we don't anticipate. Like we mentioned, the HDFC? situation last quarter. And sometimes, we see some contraction. And that's because our sales leader or the client is not -- they don't know yet. So those we have less visibility. But for the most part, I think within the quarter, we have a fair amount of visibility.

有些藍鳥的出現是我們意想不到的。正如我們之前提到的，HDFC？上季的情況。有時，我們會看到一些收縮。那是因為我們的銷售主管或客戶還不知道——他們現在還不知道。所以，我們對這些領域的了解比較少。但總的來說，我認為在本季內，我們對業績有相當程度的了解。

So I'll turn it to you Vic to talk about the other component?

那麼，維克，接下來就交給你來談談另一個部件吧？

Yes. I mean, we feel pretty good about it. I mean it's it's October 30. So we have pretty good visibility. You don't know for sure what's going to close. I think our sales team, and if you could go back in time, 12 months to now feels a lot better about our competitive position. I mean we've introduced the FIDO security keys. We bought Nok Nok. We have the partnership with Threat fabric. There's a lot of exciting stuff happening and a lot of good conversations happening. You can't book exciting conversations and people feeling good about things, but it's definitely an optimistic vibe.

是的。我的意思是，我們對此感覺相當不錯。我的意思是，今天是10月30日。所以我們能見度很好。你無法確定哪些店家會關門。我認為我們的銷售團隊，如果可以回到過去，12 個月到現在，都對我們的競爭地位感到更加滿意。我的意思是，我們已經引入了FIDO安全金鑰。我們買了 Nok Nok。我們與Threat fabric建立了合作關係。這裡發生了很多令人興奮的事情，也進行了很多有益的對話。你無法預訂激動人心的對話和人們的良好心情，但這絕對是一種樂觀的氛圍。

Understood. All right, thank you very much.

明白了。好的，非常感謝。

Rudy Kessinger, D.A. Davidson.

魯迪·凱辛格，D.A.戴維森。

Hey, thanks. Kind of just a follow-up to some questions that have been asked. Just with respect to the cut for this year, specifically on revenue and ARR, is that more so related to gross churn? Is it more so related to lower than previously expected new logo or lower than expected -- lower than previously expected cross-sell and upsell. Thank you.

嘿，謝謝。算是對之前一些問題的補充。就今年的收入和年度經常性收入削減而言，這是否與總流失率有關？這更多是因為新標誌銷售低於預期，還是交叉銷售和向上銷售銷售低於預期？謝謝。

Jorge, can give you the details. Go ahead, Jorge.

豪爾赫可以提供詳細資訊。請繼續，豪爾赫。

Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Victor. So it is primarily related to lower activity in net expansions. We did have, I would say, this quarter in Q3 that impacted one contraction. But I think overall, taking a step backward Rudy, it is primarily the lower activity for expansions. New logos was to a lesser extent, but it's primarily more the net expansions.

是的。謝謝。謝謝你，維克多。所以這主要與淨擴張活動減少有關。我想說，第三季確實出現了一次經濟萎縮。但我認為整體而言，魯迪，退一步來看，主要是擴張活動減少。新標誌的推出程度較輕，但主要還是網路擴張。

Well, and also hardware, right, to a certain extent versus we have $2 million of hardware lower than -- on the revenue side, yes.

嗯，還有硬件，對吧，在某種程度上，相比之下，我們的硬體投入比收入方面低了 200 萬美元——是的。

Yes. Okay. And I guess, as we think about maybe '26, I mean do you feel like -- give us maybe kind of a time line maybe for when you think you might start to see some more traction in some of these newer products and maybe you might be able to reignite growth here?

是的。好的。我想，當我們展望 2026 年的時候，我的意思是，您覺得——能否給我們一個大致的時間表，例如您認為什麼時候這些新產品會開始獲得更多市場認可，也許您能夠重新點燃增長的勢頭？

Yes. So let me talk a little bit about I think we're going to see traction in '26 with S3. I think we've already seen traffic with a couple of deals closing and more pipeline in Q4. But keep in mind that if that business grows 30% or 40% next year. That will be a vast acceleration over what they were doing prior to the acquisition. But that will have a $3 million or $4 million impact on our business in terms of bookings. So the scale of it will take a little bit of a while to build, even if we can accelerate growth to a much faster growth rate than the business was before or than we have been as a business over the past number of years.

是的。所以讓我稍微談談我認為我們在 2026 年會看到 S3 取得進展。我認為我們已經看到客流量有所增長，幾筆交易已經達成，而且第四季度還有更多項目正在籌備中。但請記住，如果該業務明年成長 30% 或 40%。這將比收購前他們的發展速度大幅提升。但這將對我們的預訂業務造成 300 萬至 400 萬美元的影響。因此，即使我們能夠將成長速度加快到比以前或過去幾年更快的水平，其規模的建立也需要一段時間。

ThreatFabric is our partnership and an investment. And that's going to -- it's a little bit harder to tell because it's only been three weeks but we think that will contribute not as meaningfully as Nok Nok. But for our business, like every bit of improvement helps. If we pick up $3 million or $4 million of ARR somewhere, I think that is a real positive for us overall. And of course, we're not -- we alluded to this on the prepared remarks, we're not just doing one thing. We're working on lots of different things, trying to get lots of -- we can score a bunch of runs by hitting a bunch of singles. It doesn't all have to be a home run.

ThreatFabric 是我們的合作夥伴和投資項目。至於這將會產生什麼影響——現在還很難說，因為才過了三週，但我們認為它不會像 Nok Nok 那樣產生實質性的影響。但對我們公司來說，就算一點點的改進都有幫助。如果我們能從某個地方獲得 300 萬或 400 萬美元的年度經常性收入 (ARR)，我認為這對我們整體來說是一個非常積極的結果。當然，我們並非──我們在準備好的發言稿中也提到這一點──我們並非只做一件事。我們正在研究很多不同的東西，試圖獲得很多東西——我們可以通過擊出很多安打來獲得很多分。並非每件事都必須一帆風順。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you, Rudy.

謝謝你，魯迪。

This does conclude the question-and-answer session. And I'd now like to turn it back to Joe Maxa for closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。現在我想把時間交還給喬·馬克薩，讓他做總結發言。

Thank you, everyone. I'm glad you could join us today. We look forward to sharing our results with you again next quarter. Have a great night.

謝謝大家。很高興你今天能來。我們期待下個季度再次與您分享我們的業績。祝你有個美好的夜晚。

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program, and you may now disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的會議。程式到此結束，您可以斷開連線了。