Orange SA (ORAN) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Orange's Q1 2024 Results Conference Call. The call today will be hosted by Ms. Christel Heydemann, CEO; and Mr. Laurent Martinez, Chief Financial Officer, with other members of the Orange's Executive Committee for the Q&A session that will start after the presentation.

早安，女士們先生們，歡迎參加 Orange 2024 年第一季業績電話會議。今天的電話會議將由執行長 Christel Heydemann 女士主持；財務長 Laurent Martinez 先生以及 Orange 執行委員會的其他成員將在演示結束後開始問答環節。

With that, let me hand over the floor to Ms. Christel Heydemann. Please go ahead, ma'am.

接下來，請容許我將發言權交給克里斯特爾·海德曼女士。請繼續，女士。

Good morning, and welcome to our Q1 2024 results presentation that I will comment together with Laurent. Let's move to Slide 4, which presents the key highlights of the quarter.

早安，歡迎來到我們的 2024 年第一季業績演示，我將與 Laurent 一起發表評論。讓我們轉到投影片 4，它介紹了本季的主要亮點。

We began this year with the launch of our new brand signature, Orange is here, already launched in a dozen of countries and which has been positively received for its innovative and credible approach.

今年，我們推出了新的品牌標誌“Orange is here”，該品牌已在十幾個國家推出，並因其創新和可靠的方法而受到積極好評。

The main achievement this quarter, as expected, was the completion of the transaction with MASMOVIL to form a leading operator in Spain. This is a decisive step forward in our overall vision for a strong and thriving telecoms industry in Europe. As a consequence, from now on, we fully deconsolidate Spain from our group KPIs.

正如預期的那樣，本季度的主要成就是完成了與 MASMOVIL 的交易，組建了西班牙領先的營運商。這是我們在歐洲建立強大而繁榮的電信業的整體願景中向前邁出的決定性一步。因此，從現在開始，我們將西班牙從集團 KPI 中完全剔除。

Overall, we are very pleased by our Q1 operating results, excluding Spain, with revenues up by 2.1% and EBITDAaL growth of 2.3%, consistent with our full year guidance.

總體而言，我們對第一季的經營業績（不包括西班牙）感到非常滿意，收入增長了 2.1%，EBITDAaL 增長了 2.3%，與我們的全年指導一致。

In terms of innovation, we launched this quarter new offers, notably on GenAI for our B2B customers in France. We also expanded our partnership with Google Cloud to leverage AI and GenAI across our work streams and geographies. Through this partnership, we will accelerate on AI with a focus on operating smarter and more efficient networks while improving customer experience.

在創新方面，我們本季推出了新優惠，特別是在 GenAI 上為法國的 B2B 客戶推出的優惠。我們也擴大了與 Google Cloud 的合作夥伴關係，以便在我們的工作流程和地理中利用 AI 和 GenAI。透過此次合作，我們將加速人工智慧發展，並專注於營運更智慧、更有效率的網絡，同時改善客戶體驗。

Coming back to MASORANGE on Slide 5. This business combination creates the leading telecom operator in Spain with more than 40% customer market share, an extensive network coverage and undisputed NPS leadership. We benefit from strong financials that will enable us to win in this market, which has not been structurally changed by remedies.

回到投影片 5 上的 MASORANGE。我們受益於強勁的財務狀況，這將使我們能夠在這個尚未因補救措施而發生結構性改變的市場中獲勝。

The new joint management team is in place and their top priority is executing the synergies and deleveraging to 3.5x to focus on cash generation. The JV financing package was obtained at competitive conditions, thanks to our solid credit ratings.

新的聯合管理團隊已經就位，他們的首要任務是發揮協同效應並將槓桿率降低至 3.5 倍，以專注於現金生成。由於我們可靠的信用評級，合資企業融資方案是在具有競爭力的條件下獲得的。

Run rate synergies amount to about EUR 490 million with, in addition, a potential of commercial synergies of around EUR 100 million based on past transactions. These significant synergies compare to moderate net integration costs estimated at less than half a year of run rate synergies.

運行率協同效應約為 4.9 億歐元，此外，根據過去的交易，潛在的商業協同效應約為 1 億歐元。與估計不到半年運行率綜效的適度淨整合成本相比，這些顯著的綜效。

This flagship transaction with our 50% ownership of the JV is clearly creating value for Orange, taking into account the synergies and the EUR 4.4 billion cash upstream received at closing, keeping in mind that we have a path to control.

考慮到協同效應和交割時收到的 44 億歐元上游現金，我們擁有合資企業 50% 所有權的這一旗艦交易顯然為 Orange 創造了價值，同時記住我們有控制路徑。

Now let's have a closer look at our main financial KPIs on Slide 6. In the first quarter, the group delivered revenues of EUR 9.9 billion, up by 2.1% year-on-year, driven by solid retail services, up more than 3%, while wholesale decline slowed down this quarter, notably thanks to the unbundling tariff increase in France.

現在讓我們仔細看看幻燈片 6 上的主要財務 KPI。放緩，這主要歸功於法國分拆關稅的增加。

From a segment perspective, Middle East and Africa contributed most to group revenue growth with double-digit growth. And France grew by almost 1% with retail services growth offsetting wholesale decline while Orange Business remained flat. Europe revenue's slight decrease was due to low-margin activities decrease while retail services grew by almost 1%.

從細分市場來看，中東和非洲對集團收入成長的貢獻最大，實現了兩位數的成長。法國成長了近 1%，零售服務成長抵消了批發下降，而 Orange Business 則保持穩定。歐洲收入小幅下降是由於低利潤活動減少，而零售服務增加了近 1%。

Group EBITDAaL at EUR 2.4 billion accelerated in Q1 '24, up by 2.3%, notably fueled by retail services performance paving the way to our full year guidance.

集團 EBITDAaL 在 24 年第一季加速成長 2.3%，達到 24 億歐元，這主要得益於零售服務業績，為我們的全年指導鋪平了道路。

Finally, CapEx is at 14% of sales, consistent with our around 15% full year ambition.

最後，資本支出佔銷售額的 14%，與我們全年約 15% 的目標一致。

I will now hand over to Laurent for the review by business.

我現在將交給 Laurent 進行業務審核。

Thank you, Christel. Good morning, everyone. So let's start with our segment review with France on Slide 8. In France, revenues are back to growth this quarter with retail services growth offsetting wholesale decline. Retail services, excluding PSTN, is up 3% year-on-year, fully in line with our 2% to 4% ambition driven by our value strategy with ARPO up year-on-year. Wholesale revenues fell by less than previous quarters, benefiting from the unbundling tariff increase as of Jan '24.

謝謝你，克里斯特爾。大家，早安。因此，讓我們從幻燈片 8 中對法國的細分市場回顧開始。零售服務（不包括 PSTN）年增 3%，完全符合我們的價值策略推動的 2% 至 4% 的目標，ARPO 年成長。由於截至 24 月 24 日的分拆關稅上調，批發收入降幅小於前幾季。

We are pleased with ARPO evolution as a result of our value strategy. Moreover, with 5G and FTTH penetration at 35% and 70% of our customer base, there is still potential to drive value.

我們對 ARPO 因我們的價值策略而發生的演變感到滿意。此外，隨著我們客戶群的 5G 和 FTTH 滲透率分別達到 35% 和 70%，仍有潛力推動價值。

Regarding the commercial performance, we delivered a solid performance on mobile and continued solid momentum in FTTH despite slow market while FBB performance continued the trend of recent quarters.

在商業表現方面，儘管市場低迷，但我們在行動領域表現強勁，並在 FTTH 領域繼續保持強勁勢頭，而 FBB 表現延續了最近幾個季度的趨勢。

Finally, based on this Q1 solid financial performance, we fully confirm our global target to grow retail services, excluding PSTN, between 2% to 4% as expected and targeted in our Capital Markets Day and our target to stabilize EBITDAaL in France in 2024.

最後，基於第一季穩健的財務業績，我們完全確認了我們的全球目標，即按照資本市場日的預期和目標，將零售服務（不包括PSTN）增長2% 至4%，以及我們在2024 年穩定法國EBITDAaL 的目標。

Moving to Europe with results, which now are excluding Spain, as Christel explained. Revenue were down 2% this quarter with a solid performance on retail at almost plus 1% and decrease on low-margin activities such as equipment sales, IT&IS and wholesale impacted by the new regulatory decrease of termination rate as anticipated.

正如克里斯特爾所解釋的那樣，帶著結果搬到歐洲，現在不包括西班牙。本季營收下降 2%，其中零售業務表現穩健，幾乎增長了 1%，而設備銷售、IT&IS 和批發等低利潤活動則因新監管終止率按預期下降而下降。

On the retail side, growth in the quarter was driven by a balanced volume and value strategy with convergent services with a solid momentum of plus 7%.

在零售方面，本季的成長是由均衡的數量和價值策略以及融合服務推動的，成長勢頭強勁，成長了 7%。

Finally, after in-market consolidation, integration in Belgium and Romania is on track.

最後，在市場整合之後，比利時和羅馬尼亞的整合已步入正軌。

Overall, we expect Europe to deliver a low single-digit EBITDAaL growth in 2024 consistent with our group guidance.

總體而言，我們預計歐洲將在 2024 年實現較低的個位數 EBITDAaL 成長，符合我們的集團指引。

Moving to Spain on the next page. So even if Spain is no longer included in our group KPI, we want to highlight the continued strong performance of Orange Spain firmly putting MASORANGE on the value-creation path with retail services, which continued to grow in this quarter, fueled by convergent ARPO up 4.5%, including as well wholesale and equipment sales revenue are slightly down in the wake of regulated decrease of mobile termination rate. Consistent with last year, churn improved as well year-on-year. And finally, both FTTH and postpaid mobile customer base increased in the quarters.

下一頁將前往西班牙。因此，即使西班牙不再包含在我們集團的KPI 中，我們仍希望強調Orange Spain 持續強勁的業績，堅定地讓MASORANGE 走上零售服務價值創造之路，零售服務在本季度在融合ARPO 的推動下持續成長4.5%，其中批發和設備銷售收入也因行動終端費率下調而小幅下降。與去年一致，客戶流失率也較去年同期有所改善。最後，FTTH 和後付費行動客戶群在本季都有所成長。

Overall, we are very pleased by the Spanish performance over the last 2 years, a strong platform for MASORANGE performance ahead.

總體而言，我們對西班牙過去兩年的表現感到非常滿意，這是 MASORANGE 未來表現的強大平台。

Moving to MEA, which again demonstrated its extremely strong performance, fully in line with our targets, with Q1 up double digit for the fourth consecutive quarters, over 11%, fueled by our 4 strong drivers. A clear illustration, growth in mobile revenues driven by both volume and value with average mobile ARPO up 5.4% and an acceleration in mobile customer base growth. Nine out of our 16 countries posted double-digit growth this quarter.

轉向 MEA，它再次展示了其極其強勁的表現，完全符合我們的目標，在我們 4 位強大推動者的推動下，第一季連續第四個季度實現兩位數增長，超過 11%。一個明顯的例子是，行動收入的成長是由數量和價值共同推動的，平均行動 ARPO 成長 5.4%，行動客戶群成長加速。本季 16 個國家中有 9 個國家實現了兩位數成長。

In Egypt, devaluation was fully anticipated in our forecast and is offset by a very positive operational performance at 35% revenue growth, along historic figures, double-digit growth in Egypt and close to 9% in MEA.

在埃及，我們的預測充分預期了貨幣貶值，但根據歷史數據，埃及的兩位數增長和中東和非洲地區接近 9% 的收入增長 35% 的非常積極的運營業績抵消了貨幣貶值。

Looking ahead to 2024, we confirm at least high single-digit EBITDAaL growth for this region.

展望 2024 年，我們確認該地區 EBITDAaL 至少實現高個位數成長。

Lastly, turning to Orange Business. Revenues are stable while IT&IS is up 7.5% in Q1, improving by 2 points compared to the previous year. This growth was driven by Orange Cyberdefense, double-digit growth, and by solid performance as well on digital services.

最後，轉向 Orange Business。營收穩定，第一季IT&IS成長7.5%，比去年提高2個百分點。這一增長是由 Orange Cyber​​defense 的兩位數增長以及數位服務的穩健表現所推動的。

Looking at our turnaround, we successfully passed 2 key milestones: number one, we streamlined our product and services sales portfolio and reduced it by more than half to better focus on profitable offers as targeted; number two, the voluntary departure plan in France is now under execution with corresponding departures starting in the second half of 2024.

看看我們的轉變，我們成功地實現了兩個關鍵里程碑：第一，我們簡化了產品和服務銷售組合，並將其減少了一半以上，以更好地專注於目標盈利產品；第二，法國的自願離境計畫目前正在執行，相應的離境計畫將於2024年下半年開始。

Finally, we are pleased and proud that Gartner ranked Orange Business as the #1 connectivity provider in terms of ability to execute above all our peers including, to name a few, BT, Vodafone, DT and AT&T. Market recognition and customer satisfaction, as demonstrated by this solid NPS, will foster our business growth looking forward. These are all key steps to achieving our target to halve the EBITDAaL decrease this year before being back to growth in 2025.

最後，我們感到高興和自豪的是，Gartner 將 Orange Business 評為執行能力排名第一的連接供應商，其執行能力高於所有同行，其中包括 BT、沃達豐、DT 和 AT&T。這一可靠的 NPS 所證明的市場認可和客戶滿意度將促進我們未來的業務成長。這些都是實現我們今年 EBITDAaL 下降一半、2025 年恢復成長的目標的關鍵步驟。

Now Christel, back to you for the closing comments.

現在克里斯特爾請您發表結束語。

Thank you, Laurent. I would like to conclude this presentation simply by emphasizing that this first quarter's results underpin our confidence in achieving our full year guidance, which remains unchanged. We are more than ever laser-focused on executing our Lead the Future plan and on delivering sustainable value.

謝謝你，洛朗。我想在結束本次演講時強調，第一季的業績支撐了我們實現全年指引的信心，全年指引保持不變。我們比以往任何時候都更專注於執行「引領未來」計畫並提供永續價值。

Thank you for your attention. The floor is now open for questions.

感謝您的關注。現在可以提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Mr. Nicolas Cote-Colisson from HSBC.

（操作員指令）我們的第一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Nicolas Cote-Colisson 先生。

I have got one question on France. Essentially, it's quite a fact that fixed and mobile subscribers are not that strong. So what does it say about the change in competition pattern? Do you think it's a matter of pricing or it's just a one-off? Maybe driven by the new offers at Iliad, for example? I'm just trying to assess what's going on and what price actions are maybe enriching your offers. Can you really consider such context to drive your value growth?

我有一個關於法國的問題。從本質上講，固定用戶和行動用戶的數量並不那麼強大，這是事實。那麼競爭格局的變化說明了什麼？您認為這是定價問題還是只是一次性問題？例如，也許是受到《伊利亞德》新優惠的推動？我只是想評估正在發生的事情以及哪些價格行為可能會豐富您的報價。你真的可以考慮這樣的背景來推動你的價值成長嗎？

Thank you, Nicolas. I will let Jean-François comment on the market conditions in France.

謝謝你，尼古拉斯。我將讓讓-弗朗索瓦評論法國的市場狀況。

So talking about the conditions of the market in France. Actually, since last quarter, not much news, I mean, in terms of the way the French market is behaving, on the A brands, I mean, I think actors are really rather reasonable and there is still a fight on the B-brand markets and the lower segments of the market. So as you have seen, we have been behaving extremely strongly and we are posting positive net adds on mobile slightly better than Q1 last year.

那麼談談法國的市場狀況。事實上，從上個季度以來，沒有太多消息，我的意思是，就法國市場的表現而言，在A品牌上，我的意思是，我認為演員確實相當合理，而在B品牌上仍然存在戰鬥市場和低端市場。正如您所看到的，我們的表現非常強勁，我們在行動裝置上發布的淨增加值略好於去年第一季。

On the broadband, what we can say is that the churn is slightly better and that our FTTH sales are very strong if you look at 247,000 net adds. Nonetheless, it's sure that we are going to -- we have been extremely strong in working on the value equation. As you will remember, last year, we have cut the promotions from 12 months to 6 months. We have been doing a lot of price increases in our customer base, which are actually leading to this pretty strong 3% retail services increase in Q1.

在寬頻方面，我們可以說，客戶流失情況稍好一些，如果您看看 247,000 的淨增加量，我們的 FTTH 銷售非常強勁。儘管如此，我們肯定會——我們在價值方程式的研究上一直非常努力。您還記得，去年我們將促銷時間從 12 個月縮短到 6 個月。我們一直在對客戶群進行大量提價，這實際上導致第一季零售服務成長了 3%。

So we are pretty happy with the results. We are going to fine-tune this in the coming quarters in order to balance a little bit more the volume/price equation of our business. That's, I think, what I can comment on the French market.

所以我們對結果非常滿意。我們將在未來幾季對此進行微調，以便進一步平衡我們業務的數量/價格等式。我想這就是我對法國市場的評價吧。

Yes, the last point because you were referring to the launch of the Iliad offers 2 months before. What we can say -- although I'm not very keen on commenting on our competitors' launches, what we can say is, as I was saying, we don't see actually any effect on our broadband base. Again, I mean, our broadband churn, if we compare to Q1 last year, is slightly decreasing. So that's the only thing I can say about that. So no impact on our broadband base of this move.

是的，最後一點是因為你指的是兩個月前推出的《伊利亞德》優惠。我們能說的是——儘管我不太熱衷於評論我們競爭對手的發布，但我們能說的是，正如我所說，我們實際上並沒有看到對我們的寬頻基礎產生任何影響。我的意思是，與去年第一季相比，我們的寬頻流失率略有下降。所以這是我唯一能說的。所以此舉對我們的寬頻基礎沒有影響。

Okay. Sorry, if I may add one thing. So you mentioned price increases in the customer base. Are you referring to price increases from last year feeding into 2024? Or have you also increased prices in the last few months?

好的。抱歉，我可以補充一件事。所以你提到了客戶群的價格上漲。您指的是從去年到 2024 年的價格上漲嗎？或是最近幾個月你們也漲價了嗎？

Last year, as you remember, we have done two things. In the beginning of last year, we have done, let's say, a price increase of EUR 1 for each of our mobile subscriber and EUR 2 for each of our broadband subscriber. That was announced actually in the Q1 of 2023.

去年，正如你所記得的，我們做了兩件事。去年年初，我們對每個行動用戶漲價 1 歐元，對每個寬頻用戶漲價 2 歐元。這實際上是在 2023 年第一季宣布的。

And actually, in the second half of the year, we did more moves, more tactical moves, let's say, on half of the customer base that were not so massively communicated at the first move at the beginning of last year. But nonetheless, they are definitely delivering the growth you are seeing this quarter. And amongst this move was also the reduction of the promotions from 12 months to 6 months.

事實上，在今年下半年，我們做了更多的舉措，更多的戰術舉措，比如說，針對一半的客戶群，而這些客戶群在去年年初的第一次舉措中並沒有進行如此大規模的溝通。但儘管如此，他們肯定會實現您在本季看到的成長。其中一項舉措是將促銷時間從 12 個月減少到 6 個月。

So that's the two things we have been doing last year. One has been obviously, less obvious and less communicated, but nonetheless, very strong as well.

這就是我們去年一直在做的兩件事。其中一個顯然不太明顯，也較少溝通，但儘管如此，也非常強大。

And anything so far in Q1 or...

到目前為止第一季的任何事情或...

I mean, the tactical moves are still going on in Q1.

我的意思是，第一季的戰術舉措仍在繼續。

The next question comes from Mr. Nick Lyall from Bernstein.

下一個問題來自伯恩斯坦的尼克·萊爾先生。

It was a quick question firstly on labor expenses. I think for the first quarter, they were up about 5% after flat last year. Could you maybe just explain why I think, Laurent, you mentioned maybe some second half departures via the early leaving plans, so maybe it's timing. But could you help us with the outlook for labor expenses, please?

這是一個簡短的問題，首先是關於勞動力費用。我認為第一季的股價在去年持平後上漲了約 5%。你能否解釋為什麼我認為，勞倫特，你提到可能會通過提前離開計劃進行一些下半場的離開，所以也許是時候了。但是您能幫我們了解一下人工費用的前景嗎？

And then the second one was on Spain. I think also in the presentation, you mentioned not structurally changed by remedies, which seems fair. But could you tell us what you're imagining for price competition as we sort of get into the new sort of MASORANGE era, please?

第二個是關於西班牙的。我認為在演講中，您也提到補救措施不會在結構上改變，這似乎很公平。但是，當我們進入新的 MASORANGE 時代時，您能告訴我們您對價格競爭的設想嗎？

I will hand over to Laurent then to comment on the labor expenses. When it comes to Spain, it's -- I mean, it's difficult to comment on what's going to happen in the market in the future. But as you know, the Spanish market has been going through many changes. Very, very aggressive market on the low-cost brands for the past years, but also very disciplined in driving value in the high-end part of the market.

然後我將交給勞倫特來評論人工費用。說到西班牙，我的意思是，很難評論未來市場會發生什麼。但如您所知，西班牙市場一直在經歷許多變化。過去幾年，低成本品牌的市場非常非常激進，但在高端市場的價值驅動方面也非常有紀律。

As you know, the remedies, we don't expect them to bring structural change. As you know, Vodafone is exiting the market. We are combining with MASMOVIL, and the rest of the market remains smaller players. So we do expect the market to improve at least. We will drive our part in making sure we drive value in this market. But as I said, even more focused on delivering the synergies and also continuing to work on leading from a customer experience. We have the leading NPS when we combine MASMOVIL and Orange in Spain. So we will absolutely focus on this.

如您所知，我們並不期望這些補救措施帶來結構性改變。如您所知，沃達豐正在退出市場。我們正在與 MASMOVIL 合併，而市場的其餘部分仍然是較小的參與者。因此，我們確實預期市場至少會有所改善。我們將盡自己的一份力量，確保我們在這個市場上創造價值。但正如我所說，我們更注重提供協同效應，並持續致力於以客戶體驗為主導。當我們將 MASMOVIL 和 Orange 結合在一起時，我們在西班牙擁有領先的 NPS。所以我們絕對會關注這一點。

Orange, on its side, has been communicating on price increases in Q1 to customers that will keep -- that will impact our P&L starting April with some plus EUR 1 to plus EUR 3 increase, depending on football packages, but it's all on premium. And we also know that Movistar and Vodafone have also increased their ARPUs in the same range.

Orange 方面，一直在與客戶就第一季的價格上漲進行溝通，這將影響我們從 4 月開始的損益，根據足球套餐的不同，價格會上漲 1 歐元到 3 歐元，但這都是溢價。我們也知道，Movistar 和沃達豐也在同一範圍內提高了 ARPU。

So we do expect similar behavior. Premium market, very solid and focused on value. And a low-cost market, very aggressive, as always.

所以我們確實期望類似的行為。高端市場，非常穩固且注重價值。一如既往，低成本市場非常積極。

On the labor expenses, Nick, two factors into it. Number one, of course, global inflation and salary increase. We have completed salary increase negotiation in France specifically, which is impacting, of course, our quarter-to-quarter labor expenses. We need to bear in mind as well that we are expanding our labor cost on ongoing markets, specifically in EMEA. So there is a volume game into this. And there is some phasing as well into this, which is inherent to the labor expenses. So nothing to be concerned about.

關於人工費用，尼克認為有兩個因素。第一，當然是全球通貨膨脹和薪資上漲。我們已經在法國完成了加薪談判，當然會影響我們的季度勞動支出。我們還需要記住，我們正在擴大現有市場的勞動成本，特別是在歐洲、中東和非洲地區。所以這裡面有一個數量遊戲。這也有一些分階段，這是勞動力費用所固有的。所以沒什麼好擔心的。

Next question comes from Mr. Roshan Ranjit from Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Roshan Ranjit 先生。

I've got two, please. Firstly, on CapEx, we saw an increase for the first time in a while this quarter, I guess, in line with your 15% CapEx-to-sale guidance, but just to get a sense of the kind of, I guess, approximate split of the CapEx spend. I imagine most of it will be dedicated towards AME. But just to get the sense of how the, I guess, fiber investment in France continues to trend down. Any color you can give there will be super helpful, please.

我有兩個，拜託。首先，在資本支出方面，我想，本季度我們在一段時間內首次看到增長，這與你們 15% 的資本支出-銷售指導一致，但只是為了了解一下我想的近似情況。分配。我想其中大部分將專門用於 AME。但我想了解法國的纖維投資是如何持續下降的。您可以提供的任何顏色都會非常有幫助。

And secondly, on the Enterprise business, you mentioned the voluntary departure plan. How far are you through that? And again, in terms of the road to EBITDAaL recovery in '25, what is the kind of mix between the product shift and the underlying cost cuts, which you can implement in there?

其次，關於企業業務，您提到了自願離職計畫。你已經走了多遠？再說一遍，就 25 年 EBITDAaL 復甦之路而言，您可以在那裡實施的產品轉移和基本成本削減之間的組合是怎樣的？

Thank you, Roshan. So on CapEx, the Q1 figures are really -- there's a phasing impact in the year, but nothing to be worried about, and we are fully aligned with our ambition at group level to be at 15 -- around 15% eCAPEX to sales. So no concern.

謝謝你，羅山。因此，在資本支出方面，第一季的數據確實——今年會產生階段性影響，但沒有什麼可擔心的，我們完全符合集團層面的目標，即 15——約 15% 的 eCAPEX 佔銷售額。所以不用擔心。

And when it comes to the rollout of fiber in France, we are fully under control. We've signed an agreement with the French government to clarify a number of regulatory constraints that we had. But as we said already in the past, this was planned, fully included in our budget and forecast. So absolutely no change. And we continue to be focused on connecting customers to our fiber network.

當談到在法國推出光纖時，我們完全處於掌控之中。我們已與法國政府簽署了一項協議，以澄清我們面臨的一些監管限制。但正如我們過去所說，這是計劃好的，完全包含在我們的預算和預測中。所以絕對沒有改變。我們將繼續專注於將客戶連接到我們的光纖網路。

On the Enterprise recovery, so the voluntary departure plan was officially validated early April. So it's now in motion with, I mean, discussion and open to employees for volunteer. So this has started and will impact our financials in the second half of the year.

企業復甦後，自願離職計畫於四月初正式生效。因此，我的意思是，現在正在進行討論，並向員工開放志工。所以這已經開始並將影響我們下半年的財務狀況。

When it comes to the recovery towards a stable EBITDA in 2025 -- or EBITDAaL back to growth in 2025, it's, of course, the cost-cutting plan, which is not just about the head count in France and the voluntary departure plan. This is something that, of course, we drive not just in France, also at a worldwide level, but it's really a lot of actions around execution excellence. Of course, the portfolio pruning, but it's also the growth of our Cybersecurity business and really driving gross margin improvement in all our digital services.

當談到2025年實現穩定的EBITDA復甦，或2025年EBITDAaL恢復成長時，當然是成本削減計劃，這不僅僅是法國的員工人數和自願離職計劃。當然，這不僅是我們在法國推動的，也是在全球範圍內推動的，但這確實是圍繞卓越執行力採取的許多行動。當然，是投資組合的精簡，但這也是我們網路安全業務的成長，真正推動了我們所有數位服務毛利率的提高。

So it's -- I won't give you a number, but it's really a full comprehensive plan where, of course, cost-cutting, including the head count, but not just the head count is a key element.

所以，我不會給你一個數字，但這確實是一個全面的計劃，當然，削減成本，包括人員數量，但不僅僅是人員數量是一個關鍵因素。

Our next question comes from Mr. Mathieu Robilliard from Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 Mathieu Robilliard 先生。

First, I had a question around MASORANGE. So congratulations on getting the deal closed. I wanted to know what you meant in your slide deck presentation about the contract -- the wholesale contract you signed with DIGI when you talk about capacity-based fee. I wanted to understand, if possible, whether DIGI is paying a certain amount for a certain percentage of your network capacity is it based on the volume they use and ask you.

首先，我有一個關於 MASORANGE 的問題。恭喜您完成交易。我想知道您在幻燈片演示中關於合約的含義 - 當您談論基於容量的費用時，您與 DIGI 簽署的批發合約。如果可能的話，我想了解 DIGI 是否為一定比例的網路容量支付一定的金額，是否基於他們使用的容量並詢問您。

And the second question was around networks. Clearly, it seems to me at least that the decision by the EC to not impose structural remedy is a positive and I was wondering if there was scope for more network consolidation in Spain. As you flagged, Zegona is buying Vodafone and Zegona has made it very clear that they would like to enter into some deal on network sharing on the fixed side. So I would be curious to understand whether that is something you're hoping to theoretically.

第二個問題是關於網路的。顯然，至少在我看來，歐盟委​​員會不實施結構性補救措施的決定是積極的，我想知道西班牙是否還有更多網路整合的空間。正如您所指出的，Zegona 正在收購沃達豐，Zegona 已明確表示他們希望就固定端的網路共享達成一些協議。所以我很想知道這是否是您理論上所希望的。

And then the last question was on TOTEM. I realize that the growth is not very strong at the moment and I was wondering what was driving that? Are you seeing slower growth in towers over your footprint?

最後一個問題是關於TOTEM的。我意識到目前的成長不是很強勁，我想知道是什麼推動了這種成長？您是否發現您的足跡上的塔樓增長速度放緩？

And then, if I may follow up. You had said in the past that you would consider strategic options around TOTEM, but certainly after the deal closed in Spain. It's now closed. So I don't know if you have any updates you want to share with us in terms of how you view TOTEM. Lots of questions, sorry.

然後，我可以跟進一下嗎？您過去曾說過，您會考慮圍繞 TOTEM 進行戰略選擇，但肯定是在西班牙完成交易之後。現在已經關門了。所以我不知道您對於TOTEM的看法是否有任何更新想與我們分享。問題有點多，抱歉。

Thank you. So on the Spanish market, the remedies, first, to remind that the wholesale agreement that we have signed with DIGI is optional. So it's for DIGI to decide whether or not they want to activate it, knowing that today they are working on the Telefónica network. And remind you that this is an agreement that is at market conditions from a pricing standpoint.

謝謝。所以在西班牙市場上，補救措施，第一，提醒一下，我們和DIGI簽訂的批發協議是可選的。因此，DIGI 需要決定是否要啟動它，因為他們知道今天他們正在 Telefónica 網路上工作。並提醒您，從定價角度來看，這是一項符合市場條件的協議。

So at least -- I mean, no impact, of course, on our financials. And again, they have the option to exercise this wholesale agreement until '25 or '26. So it's not short term and they cannot exercise it after 2026. And it's, indeed, capacity-based fee pricing, but again at market conditions. So this would not, we believe, have impact on the retail market prices.

所以至少——我的意思是，當然，對我們的財務沒有影響。再次強調，他們可以選擇在「25」或「26」之前執行該批發協議。因此，這不是短期的，他們無法在 2026 年之後行使它。因此，我們認為這不會對零售市場價格產生影響。

When it comes to networks in Spain, you're absolutely right that the Spanish market is somehow overbuilt and we do plan, of course, to create synergies between Orange and MASMOVIL to start with. And so we will -- and that's part of the synergies that we expect. And we will, of course, be very focused on making sure that we increase the usage of our networks also through wholesale or any type of schemes.

說到西班牙的網絡，您說得對，西班牙市場在某種程度上已經過度建設，當然，我們確實計劃在 Orange 和 MASMOVIL 之間創造協同效應。所以我們會的——這是我們期望的協同效應的一部分。當然，我們將非常專注於確保透過批發或任何類型的計劃來增加我們網路的使用。

And symmetrically, we will also make sure that we are very focused when we invest in CapEx in Spain on avoiding overbuilt. And so we will also have a role as a leading player in Spain to drive as much as possible network efficiency across the market. But I don't have anything else to comment at this stage, but you can be reassured that this will be a key focus of the management team in Spain.

同樣，我們也將確保在西班牙投資資本支出時非常注重避免過度建設。因此，我們也將發揮西班牙領導企業的作用，盡可能提高整個市場的網路效率。但現階段我沒有其他要評論的內容，但你可以放心，這將是西班牙管理團隊的重點。

When it comes to TOTEM, nothing to comment from a strategic standpoint. And maybe I will hand over to Nicolas, the CEO of TOTEM, to comment on the performance and the market environment.

說到TOTEM，從戰略角度來說沒什麼好評論的。也許我會交給TOTEM執行長Nicolas來評論業績和市場環境。

So regarding the revenue of TOTEM, as you said, overall revenue are stable. Now when it comes to recurring revenue, hosting revenue, they are growing by 2.6% year-on-year, which is aligned with our budget. And the rest of it are revenues of low margins that are compensating this overall recurring revenue. So we are on a good train regarding TOTEM.

所以關於TOTEM的收入，正如你所說，整體收入是穩定的。現在，經常性收入、託管收入年增 2.6%，這與我們的預算相符。其餘部分是低利潤收入，用於補償整體經常性收入。所以我們正處於關於TOTEM 的良好列車上。

And when it comes to external revenues, I mean, revenues that are made with other customers in Orange, we are growing by 4.6%. And if I exclude MASORANGE, I'm talking of 11.6%. So we are on a good plan for external revenues.

當涉及外部收入時，我的意思是，與 Orange 的其他客戶一起獲得的收入，我們成長了 4.6%。如果我排除 MASORANGE，我指的是 11.6%。因此，我們正在製定一個良好的外部收入計劃。

Sorry, it's probably down to my English. But Christel, when you say capacity based, again, if you can maybe be more precise. Is that a percentage of the network at a certain price or is it a volume commitment as in they buy x megabytes or gigabytes per month or per quarter and they pay based on that and it varies according to the volume, the purchase from you, DIGI, that is.

抱歉，這可能是我英文的問題。但是克里斯特爾，當你再次提到基於能力時，如果你可以更精確的話。是按特定價格佔網路的百分比，還是數量承諾，例如他們每月或每季購買 x 兆字節或千兆字節，並據此付費，並且根據數量、從您那裡購買的數量而變化，DIGI ， 那是。

Yes. No, it's consumption-based price. So it's price per gigabyte used on the network.

是的。不，這是基於消費的價格。這是網路上使用的每 GB 的價格。

Our next question comes from Mr. Jakob Bluestone, BNP Paribas Exane.

我們的下一個問題來自法國巴黎銀行的 Jakob Bluestone 先生。

Just hoping if you could turn back to the Sosh KPIs in the French business. And I guess just if you can maybe just help us understand why you're not really benefiting from the large customer losses at SFR. We obviously saw in Q4, I think, it was 80,000 subs lost in fixed and over 200,000 in mobile. But that doesn't sort of seem to be -- it doesn't seem like the weakness at SFR is really helping your business. So if you could maybe just help us understand that.

只是希望您能回到法國業務中的 Sosh KPI。我想如果您能幫助我們理解為什麼您沒有真正從 SFR 的大量客戶流失中受益的話。我認為，我們顯然在第四季度看到，固定用戶流失了 8 萬名，行動用戶流失了超過 20 萬名。但事實似乎並非如此——SFR 的弱點似乎並沒有真正幫助您的業務。所以如果你能幫助我們理解這一點就好了。

And then just more broadly on fixed line. I mean, you've lost almost 150,000 broadband subs over the last year. Your ARPU growth does seem to be slowing a little bit now, I guess, as you annualize some of your price hikes. I mean, should we be expecting a slowdown going forward in that business? Or how do you sort of think about this rebalancing of volume versus value that you mentioned?

然後是更廣泛的固定線路。我的意思是，去年您失去了近 15 萬名寬頻用戶。我想，隨著您將部分價格上漲按年計算，您的 ARPU 成長現在似乎確實有所放緩。我的意思是，我們是否應該預期該業務未來會放緩？或者您如何看待您提到的數量與價值的重新平衡？

Thank you. I will let Jean-Francois comment.

謝謝。我會讓讓-弗朗索瓦發表評論。

So first of all, hello, please be reassured. I mean, we are benefiting from losses of customers from SFR. I mean, again, we are posting, as you've seen, positive net adds, 6,000 on mobile and very strong net adds on fiber, 247,000 in net adds on fiber this quarter. So obviously, this is not only coming from customers from Orange migrating from copper to fiber, but we are getting customers from the entire market and from all the operators, by the way, and indeed, you're right, especially from SFR.

首先，您好，請放心。我的意思是，我們正從 SFR 的客戶流失中受益。我的意思是，正如您所看到的，我們再次發布了積極的淨增加量，行動裝置淨增加量為 6,000，光纖淨增加量非常強勁，本季光纖淨增加量為 247,000。顯然，這不僅來自 Orange 從銅線遷移到光纖的客戶，而且我們還從整個市場和所有運營商那裡獲得客戶，順便說一句，事實上，你是對的，尤其是來自 SFR 的客戶。

I mean, once more, and you're right to stress that, if you look at our ARPUs year-on-year, they have been increasing very strongly. I mean, when we look at the fixed broadband ARPUs, they have been increasing by more than 5%. If you look at the convergent ARPUs, they've been increasing by more than 4%.

我的意思是，您再次強調，如果您逐年查看我們的 ARPU，您會發現它們一直在強勁增長。我的意思是，當我們觀察固定寬頻 ARPU 時，它們已經成長了 5% 以上。如果您查看融合的 ARPU，您會發現它們的增幅超過 4%。

So basically, what we can say is that, again, I mean, we are going to work on fine-tuning in the coming quarters, let's say, the volume/what we call value price increases. But we believe this is quite a strong quarter from this point of view.

所以基本上，我們可以說的是，我的意思是，我們將在未來幾個季度進行微調，比如說數量/我們所說的價值價格上漲。但從這個角度來看，我們認為這是一個相當強勁的季度。

And I remind that we have a broadband customer base of 12.7 million customers in France. So please refer with the numbers you see with this 12.7 million customer base.

我要提醒大家的是，我們在法國擁有 1,270 萬客戶的寬頻客戶群。因此，請參考您在這 1,270 萬客戶群中看到的數字。

Our next question comes from Mr. George Ierodiaconou from Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 George Ierodiaconou 先生。

Maybe a couple of follow-ups on France and I think both Nicolas and Jakob focused a bit on the pricing side. I just wanted to understand, you made a comment earlier that the churn on broadband is coming down in Q1 yet it looks like, overall, the KPIs are a bit weaker.

也許有一些關於法國的後續行動，我認為尼古拉斯和雅各都集中在定價方面。我只是想了解一下，您之前曾評論說第一季寬頻的流失率正在下降，但總體而言，KPI 似乎有點弱。

So I'm just curious if there is a market problem beyond what we saw last year, if there's a further slowdown in market growth or whether it's just one player being a bit more active than the others in the past quarter.

因此，我只是好奇是否存在超出我們去年所見的市場問題，市場成長是否進一步放緩，或者是否只是一個參與者在上個季度比其他參與者更活躍。

And going forward, you are going to pass down the anniversary of [pass-through] price increases last year. So is that a risk that we see actually some of this broadband growth slowing down quite materially from the second quarter?

展望未來，您將傳承去年[轉嫁]價格上漲的周年紀念日。那麼，我們是否會看到寬頻成長實際上從第二季開始大幅放緩，這是一種風險嗎？

And then the second question is more strategic and I think Mathieu earlier asked about consolidation of networks in Spain. I guess, in France, they are not parallel. But I'm just curious whether -- there's been a lot of reports about networks being available for sale, whether it's something of interest for Orange; from an antitrust perspective, whether you believe that's double. Any comments on that will be highly appreciated.

第二個問題更具策略性，我認為馬蒂厄早些時候問過有關西班牙網路整合的問題。我想，在法國，它們並不是平行的。但我只是好奇——有很多關於網絡可供出售的報道，Orange 是否對此感興趣？從反壟斷的角度來看，無論你是否認為這是雙重的。對此的任何評論都將受到高度讚賞。

Thank you. I will also hand over to Jean-François but maybe to comment on the overall market. We indeed see -- and that's not just for Q1, we already saw that second half of last year a slowdown in the market dynamic with less net adds and this is -- you look at the report from 2023, there has been less net adds compared to the year before. So there's definitely a market slowdown. And in that environment, indeed, we had a lower churn broadband in Q1. But you're right, there's overall a market slowdown in terms of net adds in the market.

謝謝。我還將把時間交給讓-弗朗索瓦，但也許會對整個市場發表評論。我們確實看到——這不僅僅是第一季的情況，我們已經看到去年下半年市場動態放緩，淨增加量減少，這是——你看看 2023 年的報告，淨增加量減少了與前一年相比。因此，市場肯定會放緩。事實上，在這種環境下，我們在第一季的寬頻流失率較低。但你是對的，就市場淨增量而言，整體而言市場放緩。

When it comes to consolidation of networks, there has been indeed a number of deals. As you know, TDF or XpFibre are very often communicated. It's, of course, for those players to comment what we see. At least what we hear is that the number of investment, the private equity firms or investment funds, are looking at it.

在網路整合方面，確實有許多交易。如您所知，TDF 或 XpFibre 經常進行通訊。當然，這是由那些玩家來評論我們所看到的。至少我們聽到的是，許多投資、私募股權公司或投資基金都在關注它。

When it comes to XpFibre, our analysis is that there are some antitrust complexities that would make it a possibility for us to position ourselves knowing that, of course, we have agreements already with XpFibre and we definitely benefit from their networks in our retail business in France.

當涉及XpFibre 時，我們的分析是，存在一些反壟斷的複雜性，這將使我們有可能定位自己，因為我們知道，當然，我們已經與XpFibre 達成協議，並且我們肯定會從他們在零售業務中的網路中受益。

Jean-Francois, on the -- nothing more to add on the broadband? Yes.

Jean-Francois，關於寬頻，還有什麼好補充的嗎？是的。

The next question comes from Stéphane Beyazian from ODDO.

下一個問題來自 ODDO 的 Stéphane Beyazian。

I've got three, if that's possible. Sorry to push a little more on the commercial performance in France, to start with. Is it just possible to have a sense of whether that weakness we are seeing is a little more on the Orange brand or on the Sosh brand because you mentioned more competition -- or still competition in the low end of the market. But the Sosh brand looks quite well priced to me, so I was just wondering whether you can give us some flavor of how the two brands are behaving.

如果可以的話我已經有3個了首先，抱歉要多介紹一下法國的商業表演。是否有可能了解我們所看到的弱點是否更多地出現在 Orange 品牌或 Sosh 品牌上，因為您提到了更多的競爭 - 或者仍然是低端市場的競爭。但 Sosh 品牌對我來說價格看起來相當不錯，所以我只是想知道你是否能給我們一些關於這兩個品牌的表現的資訊。

My second question is on AI. I mean we've seen Deutsche Telekom in that joint venture with some international telcos. And I think they are working especially on chatbot. So I was just wondering, and I guess you're probably working also on those topics, if you can give us an idea of what sort of savings you think are possible in your customer relationship center, and how much today you are doing internally versus outsourcing that customer relationship?

我的第二個問題是關於人工智慧的。我的意思是，我們已經看到德國電信與一些國際電信公司建立了合資企業。我認為他們特別致力於聊天機器人。所以我只是想知道，我想您可能也在研究這些主題，如果您能讓我們了解您認為您的客戶關係中心可以節省哪些類型的費用，以及您今天在內部和外部方面做了多少工作外包客戶關係？

And finally, just on probably a smaller topic. But can you tell us a little more about what could cost the Olympics for you and what you've projected on that?

最後，可能是一個較小的話題。但您能告訴我們更多關於您參加奧運的成本以及您對此的預期嗎？

So on the French commercial performance, I will let Jean-François comment. Go ahead, Jean-François.

那麼關於法國的商業表演，我會讓-弗朗索瓦來評論。繼續吧，讓-弗朗索瓦。

Yes. Your question about Sosh versus Orange. So when we look at both, I mean, indeed, I mean, both are performing pretty well. I mean, obviously, Sosh is a brand that is destined to, I would say, the segment of consumers that are eventually more interested in, let's say, lower-price segment. So this is performing well.

是的。你關於 Sosh 和 Orange 的問題。因此，當我們審視兩者時，我的意思是，確實，我的意思是，兩者都表現得相當不錯。我的意思是，很明顯，Sosh 這個品牌注定是個最終對低價市場更感興趣的消費者群體。所以這表現很好。

Again, I mean, on the broadband, churn is really under control, slightly decreasing. So as Christel was explaining to you, we see indeed an overall decrease in the French market, certainly due to the fact that we are post-COVID. So in COVID, we had huge appetite for broadband.

我再說一遍，在寬頻上，客戶流失率確實得到了控制，略有下降。正如克里斯特爾向您解釋的那樣，我們確實看到法國市場整體下降，這當然是因為我們正處於新冠疫情之後。因此，在新冠疫情期間，我們對寬帶著巨大的需求。

Second, I mean, it's true that with the inflation, I mean, the French population purchasing power is under pressure. So this is probably also explaining the overall slowdown of the market.

其次，我的意思是，隨著通貨膨脹，法國人口的購買力確實面臨壓力。因此，這也可能解釋了市場整體放緩的原因。

So when I said that churn is really under control on a base of 12.3 million broadband customers, I mean, you understood it clearly. I mean, this minus 43,000 in net adds on broadband are simply explained by the fact that we are slightly missing some sales and that's what I was explaining. We are in the coming quarters not only going to pursue the price and value strategy like we did. Again, our ARPUs on fixed broadband have been growing 5% quarter on -- year-on-year, sorry. Our convergent ARPO is more than 4.5% growing. So we are going to fine-tune a little bit and put some more -- a little bit some more pressure on the volumes. But again, we are going to do that on a very disciplined way. I remind, we are the leader of the French market and we are going to be as such.

因此，當我說 1,230 萬寬頻客戶的流失確實得到控制時，我的意思是，您已經清楚地理解了。我的意思是，寬頻淨增加量為負 43,000，這只是因為我們稍微缺少一些銷售，這就是我所解釋的。在接下來的幾個季度中，我們不僅會像以前一樣追求價格和價值策略。再次強調，我們的固定寬頻 ARPU 季度年增了 5%，抱歉。我們的融合 ARPO 成長超過 4.5%。因此，我們將進行一些微調，並對銷量施加更多壓力。但同樣，我們將以非常有紀律的方式做到這一點。我提醒一下，我們是法國市場的領導者，我們也將如此。

When it comes to your question on AI, so like similar to our peers in the industry, we have three main focus as a company: focused on driving smarter networks; of course, focused on improving our customer experience and especially when it comes to our customer relationship centers and call centers; and last but not least, augmenting our employees to be more efficient.

當談到你關於人工智慧的問題時，就像我們業內的同行一樣，我們作為一家公司有三個主要關注點：專注於推動更智慧的網路；當然，重點是改善我們的客戶體驗，特別是在我們的客戶關係中心和呼叫中心方面；最後但並非最不重要的一點是，提高我們的員工的效率。

We do not have a strategy to invest in equity and to invest directly, I would say, on language models, which I think you are referring to the Deutsche Telekom agreement, which they've done with the South Korean operator. We are working with several partners. So I commented this morning on our announcement with Google Cloud and especially adding AI capabilities on top of our existing Google Cloud partnership. But we are also working with Mistral, for instance, for our internal efficiency and for our customer relationship management.

我們沒有投資股權和直接投資語言模型的策略，我認為你指的是德國電信與韓國業者達成的協議。我們正在與多個合作夥伴合作。因此，我今天早上對我們與 Google Cloud 的公告發表了評論，特別是在我們現有的 Google Cloud 合作夥伴關係的基礎上添加了人工智慧功能。但例如，我們也與 Mistral 合作，以提高我們的內部效率和客戶關係管理。

And we have many, many initiatives. Very, very early to put some numbers on it. As every company, we are testing and really making sure we focus on what we should scale to drive indeed some material savings. But really too early to make any comment. And today, this is part of our overall financial guidance so included in our investment plans when it comes to, of course, investing in technology.

我們有很多很多倡議。非常非常早地給了一些數字。與每家公司一樣，我們正在測試並真正確保我們專注於我們應該擴展的內容，以確實節省一些材料。但現在發表任何評論還為時過早。今天，這是我們整體財務指導的一部分，因此當然也包含在我們的投資計劃中，包括技術投資。

On the Olympics, I don't know, Laurent, you want to comment?

關於奧運會，我不知道，勞倫特，你想發表評論嗎？

Yes. So in terms of cost, we are talking about a few tens of million euros, so not a very large amount. Of course, there is in front of this a lot of motivation for all of our employees and something, which is very strong in terms of the image of the group because we will be the, as you know, the unique partners when it comes to telecom on this event, which is now, I think, day minus 93 as we speak.

是的。所以就成本而言，我們談論的是幾千萬歐元，所以不是很大的數字。當然，在此之前，我們所有的員工都會有很大的動力，這對於集團的形象來說是非常強大的，因為正如你所知，我們將成為唯一的合作夥伴。認為現在是零下93 日。

Our next question comes from Mr. Andrew Lee from Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的安德魯李先生。

Just at risk of asking just too many questions on a couple of things. I just wanted to just come back to the DIGI wholesale offer. It's very clear your explanation, Christel, in terms of the market conditions and they've got the option until 2026.

只是冒著對一些事情提出太多問題的風險。我只是想回到 DIGI 批發報價。 Christel，你對市場狀況的解釋非常清楚，他們在 2026 年之前都有選擇權。

Could you just explain to us when was the first time DIGI was able to take advantage of the wholesale deal? I'm just trying to work out how much we should read into the fact that they haven't so far?

您能否向我們解釋一下 DIGI 第一次能夠利用批發交易是什麼時候？我只是想弄清楚我們應該對他們到目前為止還沒有了解的事實了解多少？

And if you could give us any kind of insight into what the deliberation is on TEF's existing deal versus yours and trying to help us understand like if it hasn't taken the wholesale deal yet, what would have to change for it to take that deal because obviously that's a key insight into whether there'll be market repair or whether that deal truly is no better than the TEF one than it already has? Any help on that would be really useful.

如果您能為我們提供有關 TEF 現有交易與您們的交易的審議情況的任何見解，並試圖幫助我們理解，如果它尚未接受批發交易，那麼需要做出哪些改變才能接受該交易因為顯然這是一個關鍵的洞察力，可以判斷市場是否會修復，或者該交易是否真的比TEF 交易更好？對此的任何幫助都會非常有用。

And then just a second, just a quick follow-up on the French competition side. Just bigger picture, obviously, you're driving for value over volume in France and now using -- you have used headline price rise and now using tactical moves, as you put it.

接下來是法國比賽的快速跟進。顯然，從更大的角度來看，你在法國追求的是價值而不是數量，現在你已經使用了總體價格上漲，現在使用了戰術舉措，正如你所說的那樣。

Are you surprised or disappointed by the response of your competitors? Do you try to lead those prices higher? Any kind of reflection on kind of how competitors are responding to what you're trying to do would be -- might be helpful.

您對競爭對手的反應感到驚訝還是失望？您是否試圖提高這些價格？任何關於競爭對手如何回應你正在嘗試做的事情的反思都可能會有所幫助。

Thank you, Andrew. So on the Spanish dynamic and the DIGI wholesale agreement, I believe we have a Ludovic Pech on the call and Ludovic was the CEO of Orange Spain until end of March. He's now the CFO of our JV. And so I will let him comment.

謝謝你，安德魯。因此，關於西班牙的動態和 DIGI 批發協議，我相信我們有 Ludovic Pech 參加了電話會議，Ludovic 在 3 月底之前一直擔任 Orange Spain 的執行長。他現在是我們合資公司的財務長。所以我會讓他評論。

But as we -- as I said earlier, the wholesale agreement today, I mean, we cannot comment, of course, on the Telefónica agreement. We don't know it, and as you can expect, we don't have the details. But today, they have this agreement. And with us, it's not a smooth process to migrate your, I would say, roaming agreement in such a market.

但正如我之前所說，今天的批發協議，我的意思是，我們當然不能對西班牙電信協議發表評論。我們不知道，正如你所料，我們沒有詳細資料。但今天，他們有了這個協議。對我們來說，在這樣的市場中遷移漫遊協議並不是一個順利的過程。

And I believe they can activate our contract until September '25, but I will hand over to Ludovic to provide you more colors.

我相信他們可以將我們的合約啟動到 25 年 9 月，但我會交給 Ludovic 為您提供更多顏色。

Yes. Thank you, Christel. And I would say very much to the point, as a follow-up to the information, which was already shared, I think it's important to remind that the remedy package is not focusing on providing efficiency increase to DIGI, but rather to provide continuity to DIGI.

是的。謝謝你，克里斯特爾。我想說的是，作為已經分享的資訊的後續行動，我認為重要的是要提醒大家，補救措施的重點不是提高 DIGI 的效率，而是為 DIGI 提供連續性。

That's the reason why, as Christel Heydemann was mentioning, this is an optional NRA at market condition. And in the event that they would not continue using the network of the incumbent and/or they would not be successful, I would say, in rolling their own network or for whatever reason, they would have this fallback solution that they can exercise no later than 2026, so end of 2025, and for a period of '23 to 2038 if they were to activate it. We consider that at market condition and standard.

正如 Christel Heydemann 所提到的，這就是為什麼在市場條件下這是可選的 NRA。如果他們不會繼續使用現任者的網路和/或他們不會成功，我想說，在推出自己的網路或出於任何原因時，他們將擁有這個後備解決方案，他們可以立即使用超過2026 年，所以到2025 年底，如果他們要啟動它，則持續時間為23 至2038 年。我們認為這是根據市場條件和標準。

And I think, importantly, we have not factored in MASORANGE any revenues coming from this wholesale agreement. Putting that in other words, if they were to choose to activate this option, obviously, that would be incremental to the revenue and EBITDA of MASORANGE. But I think it's important to remind that this is not to provide additional efficiencies, but to provide continuity to DIGI.

我認為，重要的是，我們沒有將 MASORANGE 來自該批發協議的任何收入計入其中。換句話說，如果他們選擇啟動此選項，顯然，這將增加 MASORANGE 的收入和 EBITDA。但我認為需要提醒的是，這並不是為了提供額外的效率，而是為了為 DIGI 提供連續性。

Thank you. Yes. Thank you, Ludovic. Very clear. On the -- on your question on the French market and the dynamic, I will again pass the floor to Jean-François.

謝謝。是的。謝謝你，盧多維奇。非常清楚。關於你關於法國市場和動態的問題，我將再次請讓-弗朗索瓦發言。

Thank you, Christel. Yes, on the French market, again, I mean, you were asking about how our competitors are reacting to the move we've been doing. I mean, indeed, what I can say is that on the A brands, we've seen rather disciplined movements of our competitors. I mean, even Free, as you have seen in the first quarter, has been launching an offer at EUR 60. So we saw that rather as a good move going into, let's say, higher price points.

謝謝你，克里斯特爾。是的，在法國市場上，我的意思是，您再次詢問我們的競爭對手對我們一直在採取的舉措有何反應。我的意思是，事實上，我能說的是，在 A 品牌上，我們看到競爭對手的動作相當有紀律。我的意思是，即使是 Free，正如您在第一季度看到的那樣，也已推出 60 歐元的報價。

It's true that on the B brands, so if we talk about RED, B&You, there, there has been quite some movement. We have seen, let's say, some kind of unrest from Bouygues Telecom because they changed 22 times the prices in Q1.

確實，在 B 品牌上，所以如果我們談論 RED、B&You，那裡已經發生了相當大的變化。比方說，我們已經看到布伊格電信的某種騷亂，因為他們在第一季將價格調整了 22 倍。

In face of that, we've been, again, I mean, behaving extremely disciplined keeping our head cool. I mean, we are, again, having positive net adds in Q1. We've been behaving as the leader with our second brand here in this market, Sosh. And well, this is, I would say, the French market in Q1 rather in continuity with what you've seen happen in the second half of last year, actually.

面對這種情況，我的意思是，我們再次表現得非常自律，保持頭腦冷靜。我的意思是，我們在第一季再次實現了正淨成長。我們的第二個品牌 Sosh 一直是這個市場的領導者。好吧，我想說，第一季的法國市場實際上與去年下半年發生的情況相當連續。

Can I just a quick follow-up. Are you in any way worried about kind of spin-down risk increasing given that low-end competition? Or do you think it's so removed from the rest of the market that it doesn't drag down pricing elsewhere?

我可以快速跟進嗎？鑑於低端競爭，您是否擔心某種類型的停產風險增加？或者您認為它與市場其他部分的距離如此之大，以至於不會拉低其他地方的定價？

No, I mean, if you look at our customer base, we've seen no spin-down. And again, I mean, look at our customer base, our ARPUs are growing. Would we have seen spin-down? You would obviously see that in our ARPUs and our ARPUs are extremely strong, our customer base, again, extremely strong.

不，我的意思是，如果你看看我們的客戶群，你會發現我們沒有看到業務下滑。我的意思是，看看我們的客戶群，我們的 ARPU 正在成長。我們會看到自旋下降嗎？您顯然會看到，我們的 ARPU 非常強大，我們的客戶群也非常強大。

Next question comes from Mr. Javier Borrachero from Kepler Cheuvreux.

下一個問題來自 Kepler Cheuvreux 的 Javier Borrachero 先生。

I have a question on Spain. Back to this -- the question of the network, and I appreciate very much your comment that you want to avoid overbuild and make all type of efficiencies. But at the same time, when the JV was presented a couple of weeks ago, the new CEO mentioned that MASORANGE had committed EUR 4 billion investment over the next 3 years.

我有一個關於西班牙的問題。回到這個問題——網路問題，我非常感謝您的評論，您希望避免過度建設並提高所有類型的效率。但同時，當幾週前介紹合資企業時，新任執行長提到 MASORANGE 已承諾在未來 3 年內投資 40 億歐元。

If I make this on a linear basis, this is probably more than what the two companies on a stand-alone basis were investing. And I think also some of the announcement were the idea of passing 6 million new homes -- fiber homes in the next year.

如果我以線性計算，這可能比這兩家公司單獨投資的金額還要多。我認為，此次宣布的一些內容還包括明年將建造 600 萬套新住宅——光纖住宅。

So my question would be how to reconcile these two messages: One, about investing more in your comment today about being more selective; and overall, the question would be if your marketing position in Spain is going to be trying to capture customers in the high -- the premium segment through this additional investment, maybe assuming you could lose some customers in the low-end segment. Or your strategy is going to be more simply trying to defend your customer base today?

所以我的問題是如何調和這兩個訊息：其一，關於今天關於更具選擇性的評論進行更多投入；總體而言，問題是您在西班牙的營銷定位是否試圖透過這項額外投資來吸引高端客戶——也許假設您可能會失去一些低端客戶。或者您的策略將更簡單地試圖捍衛您今天的客戶群？

Thank you. So on the Spanish investment plan, as I said, and of course, Meini, the CEO of the JV, is very determined to driving value. I can guarantee you that, of course, we have a business plan. We do plan to increase our 5G coverage. So this is absolutely part of the plan because we do want to capture the premium market. And we know that network excellence needs to -- I mean, we want to stay on top, and as Orange, we were lagging behind in terms of capacity of investment compared to Telefónica.

謝謝。因此，關於西班牙投資計劃，正如我所說，當然，合資公司執行長梅尼非常決心推動價值。我可以向你保證，我們當然有一個商業計劃。我們確實計劃擴大 5G 覆蓋範圍。所以這絕對是計劃的一部分，因為我們確實想佔領高端市場。我們知道，卓越的網路需求——我的意思是，我們希望保持領先地位，而作為 Orange，我們在投資能力方面落後於 Telefónica。

But when it comes to the EUR 4 billion, I mean, as you know, we are reviewing budget, approving budget every year and we have many initiatives. So the EUR 4 billion is not something that is given and that will be invested. We do review every investment plan and approve them, and I can guarantee you that we have a number of option to optimize this and we will absolutely drive this.

但說到 40 億歐元，我的意思是，正如你所知，我們每年都在審查預算、批准預算，我們有很多舉措。因此，40 億歐元不是給予的，也不是用來投資的。我們確實會審查並批准每項投資計劃，我可以向您保證，我們有多種選擇來優化這一計劃，並且我們絕對會推動這項計劃。

When I say that the team and the management team will be focused on cash flow generation, of course, we will make sure that we avoid spending CapEx when we have alternatives that drive better and earlier cash flow return. So ROCE and cash flow return will be the main focus. And from that standpoint, the EUR 4 billion CapEx investment is probably a maximum investment plan, and we will make sure that we drive, as I said, we drive an improvement in the market environment in Spain.

當我說團隊和管理團隊將專注於現金流產生時，當然，當我們有替代方案可以推動更好、更早的現金流回報時，我們將確保避免支出資本支出。因此ROCE和現金流回報將是主要關注點。從這個角度來看，40 億歐元的資本支出投資可能是最大的投資計劃，我們將確保我們推動，正如我所說，我們推動西班牙市場環境的改善。

When it comes to defending, I mean, the premium and all the market segments, as you know, we have many brands when we look at MASORANGE. And of course, we have some premium brands, some medium brands, some low-end brands. And so we do plan to grow in the B2B segment as well.

當談到捍衛時，我的意思是，溢價和所有細分市場，如你所知，當我們看到 MASORANGE 時，我們有很多品牌。當然，我們有一些高端品牌，一些中等品牌，一些低端品牌。因此，我們也計劃在 B2B 領域實現成長。

So it's not just -- of course, we do plan to defend our premium brands. And the team is working on the plan to continue to grow both, of course, in premium, but also in the entire market. And I insist on the B2B side because the pro and the B2B segment is probably a segment where we are undercovered compared to the size that we have today in the market with MASORANGE.

當然，我們確實計劃捍衛我們的優質品牌。該團隊正在製定計劃，以繼續在高端市場和整個市場上實現成長。我堅持 B2B 方面，因為與我們今天在 MASORANGE 市場上的規模相比，專業和 B2B 細分市場可能是我們尚未發現的細分市場。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Mr. Ondrej Cabejšek from UBS.

（操作員指令）我們的下一個問題來自UBS 的Ondrej CabejÅ¡ ek 先生。

I had a couple of questions, please. So maybe just one quick follow-up on Spain. You've always upgraded the kind of OpEx and CapEx synergies to EUR 498 million, but then you're talking about the option for further commercial synergies of about EUR 100 million. Can you just talk about what exactly they are, where they're coming from and what the likelihood is, like what do they depend on their delivery. So that's the follow-up on Spain.

我有幾個問題，請問。所以也許只是對西班牙的一個快速跟進。您總是將營運支出和資本支出協同效應升級至 4.98 億歐元，但隨後您談論的是約 1 億歐元的進一步商業協同效應的選項。您能否談談它們到底是什麼、它們來自哪裡以及可能性有多大，例如它們依賴於什麼交付。這就是西班牙的後續行動。

And then just two quick questions on 1Q and how that's kind of using that as a [way to cross into] 2024 in terms of, first of all, the wholesale progression in France. We've obviously made -- progressed on the top line and you're guiding for EUR 100 million roughly a decline in wholesale EBITDAaL in France. Can you walk us through the kind of dynamics there?

然後是關於第一季的兩個簡單問題，以及如何將其作為進入 2024 年的一種方式，首先是法國的整體進展。顯然，我們在營收方面取得了進展，預計法國批發 EBITDAaL 將大約下降 1 億歐元。您能為我們介紹一下那裡的動態嗎？

You've mentioned corporate rates obviously having gone up 5%, for example, the civil engineering pricing. Is that already in effect? And do you see therefore further improvement throughout the year?

您提到企業費率明顯上漲了 5%，例如土木工程費率。這已經生效了嗎？您認為全年會有進一步的改善嗎？

And then second follow-up basically on -- or question in terms of trends so specifically on Africa and Middle East, where you posted very strong results, especially in Egypt and previously the pound devalued by quite a bit. So can you talk us through some of the contingency measures that you're doing? And what kind of effect this could have on the total kind of operation with that in mind in 2024?

然後第二個後續行動基本上是關於趨勢的問題，特別是在非洲和中東，你們發布了非常強勁的結果，特別是在埃及，此前英鎊貶值了不少。那麼您能告訴我們您正在採取的一些應急措施嗎？考慮到 2024 年的情況，這會對整體營運產生什麼樣的影響？

Thank you. So on your first question on the Spanish synergies and the extra potential compared to what we had in the plan, I will let Ludovic comment on the wholesale in France before we go back to Spain. And then after, Jerome will comment on the Middle East and Africa performance and especially what we are driving in Egypt to address the devaluation.

謝謝。因此，關於您關於西班牙協同效應以及與我們計劃相比的額外潛力的第一個問題，我將讓盧多維奇在我們返回西班牙之前對法國的批發發表評論。之後，傑羅姆將評論中東和非洲的表現，特別是我們在埃及為解決貨幣貶值問題所採取的行動。

So on the wholesale in France, as you know, we've always said that we were expecting higher impact in '23 compared to the rest. And so indeed, starting in Q1, we have the effect of the unbundling price increase. And we have the civil work engineering increase, which is kicking only in March so you will get the full effect in the rest of the year, but we didn't have yet the full impact in Q1. So that's absolutely according to plan, and you see that already in the Q1 results.

因此，就法國的批發而言，如您所知，我們一直表示，與其他地區相比，我們預計 23 年會產生更大的影響。事實上，從第一季開始，我們就受到了分拆價格上漲的影響。我們有土木工程的增加，增加僅在三月開始，因此您將在今年剩餘時間內獲得全部影響，但我們在第一季尚未產生全部影響。所以這絕對是按照計劃進行的，你已經在第一季的結果中看到了這一點。

Ludovic, I don't know if you want to comment on the commercial synergies and the potential EUR 100 million increase?

Ludovic，我不知道您是否想對商業協同效應和潛在的1億歐元成長發表評論？

Yes, sure. Sure. The current run rate of synergies after year 3 are EUR 492 million that has been communicated are excluding commercial synergies. That's mostly cost synergies. As you've understood we were prevented prior to the closing of the operation to share on commercial items. So this is why these figures do not include commercial synergies.

是的，當然。當然。目前已通報的第 3 年後的綜效運行率為 4.92 億歐元，不包括商業綜效。這主要是成本協同效應。如您所知，我們在商業項目共享作業結束之前被阻止。因此，這就是為什麼這些數字不包括商業協同效應。

So the EUR 492 million basically cover for network synergies, which comes from the consolidation of the network and from the fact that we joined the 2 customer base on the Orange network, to make a long story short, and the rest are basically across all the different cost lines of the company.

因此，長話短說，4.92 億歐元基本上涵蓋了網絡協同效應，這來自網絡的整合以及我們加入了 Orange 網絡上的 2 個客戶群這一事實，其餘的基本上涵蓋了所有業務公司的不同成本線。

64% of those synergies are rather mechanical. Putting that in other words, they come from contractual terms or from just, I would say, migrating 1 network -- 2 network to 1 network, but that's relatively mechanical.

其中 64% 的協同效應相當機械。換句話說，它們來自合約條款，或者只是來自，我想說，將 1 個網絡 - 2 個網絡遷移到 1 個網絡，但這相對機械。

The commercial synergies come from the fact that there is a lot of movement between the company, intra-brand movements. Just to give you a sense of it, mostly 1/3 of the customers, which were churning from Orange were going to MASMOVIL and vice versa. By just making sure that those customers remain within the same system, obviously, you avoid expensing on commercial expenses, installation of new customers and/or on sending new installers to the home. So that's the assessment of the commercial synergies.

商業綜效來自於公司之間、品牌內部的大量變動。只是為了讓您感覺到這一點，大多數從 Orange 流失的客戶都去了 MASMOVIL，反之亦然。顯然，只要確保這些客戶保留在同一系統中，您就可以避免商業費用、新客戶的安裝和/或將新安裝人員送到家中的費用。這就是對商業協同效應的評估。

And based on external benchmark and previous operations, we understand that this could represent roughly 1% of total revenues. And I think we are on good track to deliver this around EUR 100 million additional synergies on top of the EUR 482 million we are mentioning.

根據外部基準和先前的營運情況，我們了解到這可能約佔總收入的 1%。我認為，除了我們提到的 4.82 億歐元之外，我們有望實現約 1 億歐元的額外協同效應。

Thank you, Ludovic. On Middle East and Africa performance and how we compensate or anticipate the devaluation in Egypt. Jerome?

謝謝你，盧多維奇。關於中東和非洲的表現以及我們如何補償或預測埃及的貶值。傑羅姆？

Yes. Thank you, Christel. Thank you for your question. And as we said, we posted this quarter for Middle East and Africa a very strong growth performance led by our 4 growth engines: double-digit growth on mobile data, fixed broadband, mobile money and B2B as well.

是的。謝謝你，克里斯特爾。謝謝你的問題。正如我們所說，本季度我們在中東和非洲的 4 個成長引擎的帶動下實現了非常強勁的成長業績：行動數據、固定寬頻、行動貨幣和 B2B 的兩位數成長。

Regarding -- and most of our countries, as stated by Laurent, have been posting a very strong growth, 9 out of 16 posting double-digit growth.

正如勞倫特所說，我們大多數國家都實現了非常強勁的成長，16 個國家中有 9 個國家實現了兩位數成長。

Regarding Egypt. First, we were expecting a devaluation during this first quarter. It took place in March in magnitude that we were forecasting. It was mostly offset, as stated by Laurent as well, by the organic performance of Orange Egypt both in volume and value. And by the way, Orange Egypt benefited from a price increase, the price-up mechanism agreed with the local regulator for all operators of around 15%, and posted a growth of 35.5%.

關於埃及。首先，我們預期第一季會出現貶值。它發生在三月份，其規模符合我們的預測。正如 Laurent 所說，這大部分被 Orange Egypt 在數量和價值方面的有機表現所抵消。順便說一下，Orange Egypt受益於價格上漲，與當地監管機構同意所有業者的價格上漲機制為15%左右，並實現了35.5%的成長。

And even with the ForEx conversational impact, the performance remains excellent with a double-digit growth of 12.5% on historic figures. So now we expect the ForEx to stabilize till the end of the year, but we are monitoring it very carefully, of course.

即使受到外匯對話的影響，業績仍然非常出色，比歷史數據增長了 12.5% 的兩位數。因此，現在我們預計外匯將穩定到今年年底，但當然，我們正在非常仔細地監控它。

That's very interesting. And if I may have one quick follow-up on this, please. The 15% agreement was the regulator to increase prices? Is that -- you think there is going to be more effect because obviously the devaluation was more than 3x. Is there a potential for that 15% to grow over the next couple of quarters or in any term in general?

這很有趣。請讓我快速跟進。 15%協議是監理層漲價？是不是——你認為會有更大的影響，因為顯然貶值幅度超過了 3 倍。在接下來的幾季或任何期間內，這 15% 是否有可能成長？

Is your question, do we expect more devaluation to come?

你的問題是，我們是否預期會出現更多貶值？

No, sorry, just because the price increases agreed with the regulator was 15%, you said 1-5, and then the devaluation was 50%. So I'm just asking if the -- there's potential for more kind of regulated price increases to compensate for the valuation.

不，抱歉，只是因為跟監管機構約定的漲價是15%，你說1-5，然後貶值了50%。所以我只是想問是否有可能進行更多受監管的價格上漲來補償估值。

There are always discussions going on with the NTRA in Egypt. There is nothing to announce about a new agreement between the industry and the regulator for a further price increase.

與埃及 NTRA 的討論一直在進行。關於產業與監管機構之間進一步提價的新協議，目前還沒有任何消息可宣布。

But again, we are very confident with our commercial dynamics there and the volume growth as well on top of value growth. And the ARPU growth is not only driven by the price increase, but as well by new services and very strong performance of Orange Cash, which is the Orange Money brand for Orange Egypt in particular.

但我們再次對我們在那裡的商業動態以及銷售成長以及價值成長充滿信心。 ARPU 的成長不僅受到價格上漲的推動，還受到新服務和 Orange Cash 強勁表現的推動，Orange Cash 是 Orange Egypt 的 Orange Money 品牌。

Okay. It looks like we have no further questions. I'll pass the line back to Christel for her concluding remarks.

好的。看來我們沒有其他問題了。我會將電話轉回給克里斯特爾，讓她作總結發言。

Thank you. So as I said earlier, Q1 is a very good start to the year. We have a strong momentum with, of course, the creation of our JV in Spain, MASORANGE. And we are fully confident and committed on our full year guidance, which we reconfirm, and focused on execution of our Lead the Future plan. Thank you all.

謝謝。正如我之前所說，第一季是今年的一個非常好的開始。當然，我們在西班牙成立的合資企業 MASORANGE 的發展勢頭強勁。我們對全年指導充滿信心並致力於這一點，我們再次確認了這一點，並專注於執行我們的「引領未來」計劃。謝謝你們。

Thank you very much. This concludes today's conference call. We'll now be closing all the lines. Thank you, and goodbye.

非常感謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。我們現在將關閉所有線路。謝謝，再見。