Blue Owl Capital Corp (OBDC) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Blue Owl Capital Corporation Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Call. As a reminder, this call is being recorded. At this time, I'd like to turn the call over to Mike Mosticchio, Head of BDC Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

大家早安，歡迎參加 Blue Owl Capital Corporation 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。提醒一下，本次通話正在錄音。現在，我想將電話轉給 BDC 投資者關係主管 Mike Mosticchio。請繼續。

Thank you, operator, and welcome to Blue Owl Capital Corporation's Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. Yesterday, Blue Owl Capital Corporation issued its earnings release and posted an earnings presentation for the second quarter ended June 30, 2025.

謝謝接線員，歡迎參加 Blue Owl Capital Corporation 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。昨天，Blue Owl Capital Corporation 發布了收益報告，並公佈了截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日的第二季財報。

These should be reviewed in connection with the company's 10-Q filed yesterday with the SEC. All materials referenced during today's call, including the earnings press release, earnings presentation and 10-Q are available on the Investors section of the company's website at bluelowlcapitalcorporation.com.

這些應該結合該公司昨天向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-Q 報表進行審查。今天電話會議上引用的所有資料，包括收益新聞稿、收益報告和 10-Q，均可在公司網站 bluelowlcapitalcorporation.com 的投資者部分查閱。

Joining us on the call today are Craig Packer, Chief Executive Officer; Logan Nicholson, President; and Jonathan Lamm, Chief Financial Officer. I'd like to remind listeners that remarks made during today's call may contain forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance or results and involve a number of risks and uncertainties that are outside of the company's control. Actual results may differ materially from those in forward-looking statements as a result of a number of factors, including those described in OBDC's filings with the SEC.

今天參加電話會議的有執行長 Craig Packer、總裁 Logan Nicholson 和財務長 Jonathan Lamm。我想提醒聽眾，今天電話會議上的言論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述並不能保證未來的績效或結果，並且涉及公司無法控制的一系列風險和不確定性。由於多種因素，包括 OBDC 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所述的因素，實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。

The company assumes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements. Certain information discussed on this call and in the company's earnings materials, including information related to portfolio companies, was derived from third-party sources and has not been independently verified. The company makes no such representations or warranties with respect to this information.

該公司不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。本次電話會議和公司收益資料中討論的某些資訊（包括與投資組合公司相關的資訊）來自第三方來源，尚未經過獨立核實。該公司不對此資訊作出任何陳述或保證。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Craig.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給克雷格。

Thanks, Mike. Good morning, everyone, and thank you all for joining us today. We delivered solid second quarter results, driven by the continued strong performance of our portfolio. As a reminder, our second quarter results reflect the first full quarter of combined company results following the merger with OBDE that closed in January.

謝謝，麥克。大家早安，感謝大家今天的參加。由於我們投資組合持續強勁的表現，我們在第二季度取得了穩健的業績。提醒一下，我們的第二季業績反映了 1 月份與 OBDE 合併後公司合併後的第一個完整季度的業績。

In the second quarter, we achieved an ROE of 10.6%, our 12th consecutive quarter of double-digit ROE based on adjusted NII per share of $0.40, reflecting the ongoing strength of our earnings power. As of quarter end, our net asset value per share was $15.03 down $0.11 from the prior quarter.

在第二季度，我們的 ROE 達到了 10.6%，這是我們連續第 12 個季度實現兩位數的 ROE（基於調整後的每股 NII 0.40 美元），這反映了我們盈利能力的持續強勁。截至季末，我們的每股淨資產價值為 15.03 美元，較上一季下降 0.11 美元。

Our portfolio continues to perform well, which we believe is a reflection of our investment approach that emphasizes downside protection by focusing on large, highly diversified recession-resistant businesses. The modest write-downs in Q2 occurred on a few companies that have been on our watch list for several quarters including some that have been impacted by tariffs. None of these are new underperforming names. In fact, given the uncertainty around tariffs, we are quite pleased with how our portfolio is performing, which is in line with our expectations given our business mix.

我們的投資組合持續表現良好，我們認為這反映了我們的投資方法，即透過專注於大型、高度多樣化的抗衰退企業來強調下行保護。第二季出現小幅減記的公司有幾家已經在我們的關註名單上好幾個季度了，其中包括一些受到關稅影響的公司。這些都不是表現不佳的新名字。事實上，考慮到關稅的不確定性，我們對我們的投資組合的表現感到非常滿意，這符合我們對業務組合的預期。

Overall, the fundamental performance across our portfolio remains strong, and we are not seeing any broader signs of stress. As Logan will dive into later, our borrowers continue to experience healthy fundamental trends including solid revenue and EBITDA growth. OBDC's great credit performance, as evidenced by our below industry average nonaccrual and loss rates as a result of our defensive strategy focusing on high-quality, upper middle market businesses.

總體而言，我們投資組合的基本表現仍然強勁，我們沒有看到任何更廣泛的壓力跡象。正如 Logan 稍後將深入探討的那樣，我們的借款人繼續經歷健康的基本趨勢，包括穩健的收入和 EBITDA 成長。OBDC 的信用表現非常出色，這體現在我們低於行業平均水平的未提列和損失率，這是因為我們採取了專注於高品質、中上層市場業務的防禦性策略。

Next, I want to talk about the current market environment and how we are approaching it, 2025 has been a more challenging deal environment as muted M&A has weighed on overall deal activity. Despite limited new supply and a strong broadly syndicated loan market, the spread pressure we experienced last year has troughed and generally stabilized. That said, our sourcing capabilities, which are enhanced by our scale across both Blue Owl Capital and our credit platform, allow us to continue to generate attractive deal flow.

接下來，我想談談當前的市場環境以及我們如何應對它，2025 年的交易環境將更具挑戰性，因為併購活動的低迷對整體交易活動造成了壓力。儘管新增供應有限且銀團貸款市場強勁，但我們去年經歷的利差壓力已觸底並整體趨於穩定。儘管如此，我們的採購能力（透過 Blue Owl Capital 和信貸平台的規模得到增強）使我們能夠繼續產生有吸引力的交易流。

As you've heard me talk about over the past year, we have expanded our broader business into other complementary strategies, including alternative credit and investment-grade credit, as well as data centers and digital infrastructures. With our expanded suite of products across the platform, we're able to access new attractive investment opportunities, while also adding financing tools that are valuable to our borrowers and sponsors. Given our deep expertise in these areas, we are able to better meet the diverse and ever evolving needs of our partners, which is especially important considering the more muted deal environment we have experienced this year.

正如你們在過去一年裡聽到我談論的那樣，我們已將更廣泛的業務擴展到其他互補策略，包括替代信貸和投資級信貸，以及資料中心和數位基礎設施。透過我們平台上擴展的產品套件，我們能夠獲得新的有吸引力的投資機會，同時也能增加對我們的借款人和贊助商有價值的融資工具。鑑於我們在這些領域的深厚專業知識，我們能夠更好地滿足合作夥伴多樣化和不斷變化的需求，考慮到我們今年經歷的較為低迷的交易環境，這一點尤為重要。

Our growing solution set has generated novel origination opportunities for our BDCs. While we aren't changing our fundamental strategy at OBDC, we are currently evaluating cross strategy opportunities. And at quarter end, we formed a cross-platform equipment leasing joint venture. This is an example of how Blue Owl's in-house expertise enables us to explore strategic equity and accretive joint venture investments to have the cash flow and credit profiles to provide consistent income, which is one of the hallmarks of our investment strategy.

我們不斷增長的解決方案為我們的 BDC 創造了新的起源機會。雖然我們不會改變 OBDC 的基本策略，但我們目前正在評估跨策略機會。在本季末，我們成立了一家跨平台設備租賃合資企業。這是一個例子，說明 Blue Owl 的內部專業知識如何使我們能夠探索策略性股權和增值合資投資，以獲得現金流和信用狀況來提供穩定的收入，這是我們投資策略的標誌之一。

Following the OBDE merger, closed earlier this year, we have incremental capacity to execute on these opportunities. Select's strategic equity and joint venture investments enhance our diversification and expand our reach in new investment areas that are unique to the Blue Owl platform and complement our core sponsor deal flow. To close, we believe our experienced team defensively constructed portfolio disciplined underwriting and highly durable funding model have positioned us to deliver strong risk-adjusted returns regardless of what lies ahead.

繼今年稍早完成的 OBDE 合併之後，我們擁有了更大的能力來抓住這些機會。Select 的策略股權和合資投資增強了我們的多元化，擴大了我們在 Blue Owl 平台獨有的新投資領域的影響力，並補充了我們的核心贊助商交易流程。最後，我們相信，無論未來如何，我們經驗豐富的團隊、防禦性建構的投資組合、嚴謹的承保和高度持久的融資模式使我們能夠提供強勁的風險調整回報。

Now I'll turn it over to Logan for additional color on portfolio performance.

現在我將把主題交給洛根，讓他進一步闡述投資組合的表現。

Thanks, Craig. Despite deal activity being relatively subdued in April after the initial tariff announcement, we continue to find attractive opportunities to commit capital in the second quarter. We deployed approximately $1.1 billion of new investment commitments with $906 million of fundings in the second quarter. We also saw a steady flow of repayments with $1.9 billion of paydowns this quarter, which resulted in net leverage landing at 1.17 times.

謝謝，克雷格。儘管在首次公佈關稅後，四月份的交易活動相對低迷，但我們仍然發現第二季有吸引人的資本投入機會。我們在第二季部署了約 11 億美元的新投資承諾，其中融資 9.06 億美元。我們也看到還款流穩定，本季還款額為 19 億美元，導致淨槓桿率達到 1.17 倍。

As you recall, reducing leverage back down to our target range was a priority following the onetime leveraging event from the merger with OBDE earlier this year, and we now have ample capacity to navigate going forward. As Craig mentioned earlier, our scale and incumbency creates a unique advantage. And in the uncertain market environment that persisted throughout the second quarter the majority of our originations came from existing borrowers.

您還記得，在今年早些時候與 OBDE 合併的一次性槓桿事件之後，將槓桿率降低到我們的目標範圍是當務之急，現在我們有足夠的能力來應對未來的挑戰。正如 Craig 之前提到的，我們的規模和在職經驗創造了獨特的優勢。在第二季持續存在的不確定的市場環境中，我們的大部分貸款來自現有借款人。

A recent example of this was Trucordia, an insurance brokerage firm that has been part of the Blue Owl portfolio, since 2020. At inception, we provided a creative financing solution that included a cash pay debt component plus an intentionally structured PIK component and a common equity co-investment. In the second quarter, the company completely recapitalized resulting in the payoff of our term loan, the collection of all accrued PIK interest on that loan and the realized gain on our common equity position. Additionally, an existing preferred equity investment was refinanced.

最近的一個例子是 Trucordia，這是一家保險經紀公司，自 2020 年以來一直是 Blue Owl 投資組合的一部分。在成立之初，我們提供了一種創造性的融資解決方案，其中包括現金支付債務部分加上有意建立的 PIK 部分和共同股權共同投資。在第二季度，公司完成了資本重組，償還了定期貸款，收回了該貸款所有應計的PIK利息，並實現了普通股收益。此外，現有的優先股投資也得到了再融資。

Overall, the transaction resulted in an IRR in the low double digits and a MOIC of approximately 1.4 times across our entire investment. This is yet another example of how structuring deals with PIK at inception can lead to more attractive returns. Additionally, given our deep and long-standing relationship with the borrower, Blue Owl was able to provide a new second lien term loan behind the broadly syndicated first lien as the sole lender in that tranche. The transaction highlights the strength of our incumbencies and our ability to provide customized flexible solutions to deliver attractive risk-adjusted returns for our shareholders.

總體而言，該交易的 IRR 達到了兩位數的低位，MOIC 達到了我們整個投資的約 1.4 倍。這又是一個例子，說明如何在開始時建立 PIK 交易可以帶來更具吸引力的回報。此外，鑑於我們與借款人之間長期深厚的關係，Blue Owl 能夠作為該部分貸款的唯一貸款人，在廣泛銀團的第一留置權之後提供新的第二留置權定期貸款。此交易凸顯了我們現有業務的實力以及我們提供客製化靈活解決方案的能力，從而為股東帶來有吸引力的風險調整回報。

Before we turn to the portfolio, as Craig noted earlier, we formed an equipment leasing joint venture at quarter end. It will allow us to efficiently invest in a diverse pool of high-quality equipment leases with a dedicated leverage facility. We expect it to generate attractive low double-digit yields once fully ramped, which should be accretive to fund level ROEs over time. This is yet another example of how we leverage the breadth of the Blue Owl platform to create value for shareholders.

在我們轉向投資組合之前，正如 Craig 之前提到的，我們在季度末成立了一家設備租賃合資企業。它將使我們能夠利用專用槓桿工具來有效地投資於多樣化的高品質設備租賃。我們預計，一旦全面投入運營，它將產生相當吸引力的低兩位數收益率，隨著時間的推移，這將有利於基金水平的淨資產收益率 (ROE)。這是我們利用 Blue Owl 平台的廣度為股東創造價值的另一個例子。

Now I'd like to touch on some portfolio metrics. We believe our long-standing and disciplined approach of investing in a diverse pool of upper middle market businesses and noncyclical sectors continues to drive strong portfolio results in all market environments. OBDC's average investment represents less than 45 basis points of the portfolio, minimizing our exposure to any single company. The median EBITDA of our portfolio borrowers is $133 million and weighted average EBITDA is $222 million, up from $120 million and $215 million in the prior quarter, respectively.

現在我想談談一些投資組合指標。我們相信，我們長期以來對多元化中上層市場企業和非週期性產業進行投資的嚴謹態度，將繼續在所有市場環境下推動強勁的投資組合績效。OBDC 的平均投資佔投資組合的不到 45 個基點，從而最大限度地減少了我們對任何單一公司的投資風險。我們投資組合借款人的 EBITDA 中位數為 1.33 億美元，加權平均 EBITDA 為 2.22 億美元，分別高於上一季的 1.2 億美元和 2.15 億美元。

Our debt portfolio sits at a conservative LTV of 42% on average, which we believe is key to protecting our downside and supporting robust recoveries during challenging times. As Craig highlighted, the fundamental performance of our portfolio company borrowers remain strong. Revenue and EBITDA increased by mid- to high single digits on a year-over-year basis, which accelerated slightly compared to prior quarter results. Interest coverage increased to 1.9 times based on current spot rates providing our borrowers with incremental cash flow cushion.

我們的債務組合平均貸款價值比保守為 42%，我們認為這是在困難時期保護我們的下行風險和支持強勁復甦的關鍵。正如克雷格所強調的，我們投資組合公司借款人的基本表現依然強勁。營收和 EBITDA 年成長率高個位數，與上一季的業績相比略有加速。根據目前現貨利率，利息覆蓋率增加至 1.9 倍，為我們的借款人提供了增量現金流緩衝。

And PIK income decreased again quarter-over-quarter, down to 9.1% of total investment income from 10.7% last quarter, primarily driven by refinancings of several PIC investments, including Trucordia, as I mentioned earlier. As we've highlighted in the past, the vast majority of our remaining PIK names were underwritten at inception rather than resulting from credit issues and these investments continue to perform as expected.

而 PIK 收入則再次環比下降，從上一季佔總投資收入的 10.7% 降至 9.1%，這主要是由於包括 Trucordia 在內的幾項 PIC 投資的再融資，正如我之前提到的。正如我們過去所強調的那樣，我們剩餘的 PIK 名稱中的絕大多數都是在成立之初承保的，而不是由於信用問題而產生的，並且這些投資繼續表現如預期。

Our internal ratings, which range from 1 to 5 as an indicator of portfolio health remains steady, and our watch list was down modestly at cost from the prior quarter. Further, we do not see any material pickup in amendment activity or other signs of material stress. Outside of our watch list, our portfolio is performing well, and our marks remained stable quarter-over-quarter. If you were to exclude the handful of names on our watch list, where we saw markdowns, the rest of our portfolio marks were flat quarter-over-quarter at $0.996 a par.

我們的內部評級（範圍從 1 到 5）作為投資組合健康狀況的指標，保持穩定，並且我們的關註名單與上一季相比略有下降。此外，我們沒有看到修正活動有任何實質回升或其他重大壓力的跡象。在我們的關註名單之外，我們的投資組合表現良好，並且我們的分數與上一季相比保持穩定。如果您排除我們關註名單中的少數幾個出現降價的股票，我們投資組合中的其餘股票的股價將與上一季持平，為每股 0.996 美元。

Our nonaccrual rate as of quarter end was 0.7% at fair value and 1.6% at cost compared to 0.8% and 1.4% in the prior quarter, reflecting the addition of one small position that has been on the watch list for several quarters. And finally, at the time of our first quarter call, we estimated that our tariff exposure was roughly mid-single digits of the portfolio. We're pleased to report that today, with the benefit of more time engaging our portfolio companies we believe our exposure is narrower than we had previously estimated.

截至季末，我們的不計提率以公允價值計算為 0.7%，按成本計算為 1.6%，而上一季分別為 0.8% 和 1.4%，這反映了在觀察名單上增加了一個小倉位，該倉位已連續幾個季度處於關注狀態。最後，在第一季電話會議時，我們估計我們的關稅風險敞口約佔投資組合的個位數中段。我們很高興地報告，今天，由於我們花了更多時間與投資組合公司打交道，我們相信我們的風險敞口比我們之前估計的要窄。

Our borrowers continue to manage these headwinds well and for the small substantive names impacted by anticipated tariffs, our sponsors continue to provide support and resources to diversify supply chains. In closing, I want to echo the sentiment Craig shared. Our second quarter results demonstrate the continued strength of our portfolio, which is bolstered by our differentiated origination funnel and conservative approach to underwriting.

我們的借款人繼續很好地應對這些不利因素，對於受預期關稅影響的小型實體，我們的贊助商繼續提供支持和資源以實現供應鏈多元化。最後，我想表達克雷格所分享的觀點。我們第二季的業績證明了我們的投資組合的持續強勁，這得益於我們差異化的發起管道和保守的承保方式。

And now I'll turn over the call to Jonathan to provide more detail on our second quarter financial results.

現在我將把電話轉給喬納森，讓他提供有關我們第二季度財務業績的更多詳細資訊。

Thank you, Logan. OBDC delivered another quarter of solid financial performance. We ended the quarter with total portfolio investments of nearly $17 billion, total net assets of nearly $8 billion and total outstanding debt of approximately $9 billion.

謝謝你，洛根。OBDC 又一個季度取得了穩健的財務表現。截至本季末，我們的投資組合總額接近 170 億美元，淨資產總額接近 80 億美元，未償債務總額約 90 億美元。

Our second quarter NAV per share was $15.03 down from $15.14 last quarter. Turning to the income statement. We earned adjusted net investment income of $0.40 per share, up $0.01 as compared to the prior quarter, driven primarily by an elevated level of onetime repayment income in the second quarter totaling $0.05 per share, which was about $0.03 per share higher as compared to our three-year average. This was partially offset by lower leverage.

我們第二季的每股資產淨值為 15.03 美元，低於上一季的 15.14 美元。轉向損益表。我們的調整後淨投資收益為每股 0.40 美元，較上一季增加 0.01 美元，主要原因是第二季一次性還款收入增加，總計每股 0.05 美元，比我們三年的平均水平高出約 0.03 美元。這被較低的槓桿率部分抵消。

Similar to prior quarters, we over earned our base dividend resulting in the Board declaring a $0.02 supplemental dividend based on our second quarter results, which will be paid on September 15 to shareholders of record as of August 29. The Board also declared a third quarter base dividend of $0.37, which will be paid on October 15 to shareholders of record as of September 30.

與前幾季類似，我們的基本股息超過了預期，因此董事會根據第二季度業績宣布派發 0.02 美元的補充股息，該股息將於 9 月 15 日支付給 8 月 29 日登記在冊的股東。董事會也宣布第三季基本股利為 0.37 美元，將於 10 月 15 日支付給截至 9 月 30 日登記在冊的股東。

We continue to believe OBDC is well positioned for the evolving rate environment. Our adjusted earnings covered our base dividend with 109% dividend coverage. Further, our spillover income remains healthy at approximately $0.33 per share and equates to nearly a full quarter's worth of base dividends. We believe having a meaningful undistributed spillover supports our goal of maintaining a steady dividend through volatile and varying market conditions.

我們仍然相信 OBDC 已做好充分準備應對不斷變化的利率環境。我們的調整後收益涵蓋了基本股息，股息覆蓋率為 109%。此外，我們的溢出收入仍然保持健康，約為每股 0.33 美元，相當於近一個季度的基本股息。我們相信，有意義的未分配外溢效應能夠支持我們在動盪多變的市場條件下維持穩定股利的目標。

Moving to the balance sheet. We finished the quarter with net leverage of 1.17 times, down from 1.26 times and within our target range of 0.9 to 1.25 times. As we made a concerted effort to lower leverage following our merger with OBDE, as Logan mentioned.

轉到資產負債表。本季結束時，我們的淨槓桿率為 1.17 倍，低於 1.26 倍，並處於我們的目標範圍 0.9 至 1.25 倍之內。正如 Logan 所提到的，我們在與 OBDE 合併後做出了一致努力來降低槓桿率。

Turning to liquidity. We ended the quarter with over $4 billion in total cash and capacity on our facilities, which was over 2 times in excess of our unfunded commitments. We believe we have positioned our balance sheet with significant capacity to invest as new opportunities come in.

轉向流動性。截至本季末，我們的設施總現金和容量超過 40 億美元，是未撥付承諾的兩倍多。我們相信，隨著新機會的出現，我們的資產負債表已經具備了強大的投資能力。

During the quarter, we further bolstered our liquidity by raising $500 million in new five-year notes, and we continue to optimize our capital structure post-merger with several refinancings and amendments of our secured facilities. As a result, we have no material short-term maturities, and our robust liquidity position provides us with more than ample unfunded capacity to meet any near-term funding needs. Overall, we remain very pleased with our results and believe that our balance sheet is well positioned for the environment ahead.

在本季度，我們透過發行 5 億美元五年期新票據進一步增強了流動性，並且在合併後，我們繼續透過多次再融資和對擔保設施的修改來優化資本結構。因此，我們沒有重大的短期到期債務，我們強勁的流動性狀況為我們提供了充足的未融資能力，可以滿足任何短期融資需求。總體而言，我們對我們的業績仍然非常滿意，並相信我們的資產負債表已為未來的環境做好了準備。

I'll now hand it back to Craig to provide final thoughts for today's call.

現在我將把發言權交還給 Craig，讓他對今天的電話會議做出最後的想法。

Thanks, Jonathan. To close, I want to reflect on where OBDC and the broader BDC market are today. Over the past year, we saw two trends that have impacted both OBDC and the broader leveraged finance markets.

謝謝，喬納森。最後，我想回顧一下 OBDC 和更廣泛的 BDC 市場目前的狀況。在過去的一年裡，我們看到了兩種影響 OBDC 和更廣泛的槓桿融資市場的趨勢。

First, interest rates declined 100 basis points from their peak as market expectations evolve. As a predominantly floating rate asset class, this has had a direct impact on our portfolio's earning power. Second, while direct lending spreads have been tighter, spreads have narrowed in all markets. Direct lending still commands a healthy premium to the broadly syndicated loan market, yielding a 150 to 200 basis point premium, which is generally in line with historical averages.

首先，隨著市場預期的變化，利率從高峰下降了100個基點。作為以浮動利率為主的資產類別，這對我們投資組合的獲利能力產生了直接影響。其次，雖然直接貸款利差有所收窄，但所有市場的利差均有所縮小。直接貸款仍比廣泛的銀團貸款市場具有較高的溢價，溢價幅度為 150 至 200 個基點，這基本上與歷史平均水平一致。

Despite these two headwinds, we believe our portfolio is positioned for strong, consistent performance. Absolute returns within direct lending continue to be compelling no BDC continues to deliver attractive relative returns, which we were once again able to demonstrate in the second quarter, generating a 10.6% ROE and a 10.4% dividend yield on net asset value.

儘管面臨這兩大不利因素，我們仍然相信我們的投資組合能夠實現強勁、持續的表現。直接貸款的絕對回報仍然引人注目，沒有 BDC 繼續提供有吸引力的相對回報，我們在第二季度再次證明了這一點，產生了 10.6% 的 ROE 和 10.4% 的淨資產價值股息收益率。

Looking ahead, spreads have generally stabilized. And while the rate outlook remains uncertain, the market is expecting modest additional rate cuts later this year. However, even with that assumption, we are confident that we will maintain our dividend level throughout the rest of the year.

展望未來，利差整體趨於穩定。儘管利率前景仍不明朗，但市場預計今年稍晚將進一步適度降息。然而，即使有這樣的假設，我們仍然有信心在今年剩餘時間內保持我們的股息水準。

On the deal environment, we are cautiously optimistic about a potential rebound in activity in the second half of this year. We've seen conversations with private equity sponsors have been encouraging. And if these discussions translate into new transactions, they could significantly boost deal flow. Regardless of whether these deals materialize, we are confident that our sourcing capabilities enhanced by the scale of our platform will continue to drive attractive deal flow going forward.

就交易環境而言，我們對今年下半年交易活動可能出現的反彈持謹慎樂觀的態度。我們看到與私募股權發起人的對話令人鼓舞。如果這些討論轉化為新的交易，那麼交易量將會顯著增加。無論這些交易是否實現，我們都相信，我們平台規模增強的採購能力將繼續推動未來有吸引力的交易流。

In closing, we feel very comfortable with our ability to deploy capital opportunistically and manage leverage appropriately. Our strong track record, combined with the scale of our platform, consistent investment philosophy positions OBDC to deliver attractive risk-adjusted returns to our shareholders across any economic environment. Thank you for your time today, and we will now open the line for questions.

最後，我們對自己適時部署資本和適當管理槓桿的能力感到非常滿意。我們出色的業績記錄，加上我們平台的規模和一致的投資理念，使得 OBDC 能夠在任何經濟環境下為股東帶來具有吸引力的經風險調整後的回報。感謝您今天的時間，我們現在將開放提問熱線。

(Operator Instructions) Brian McKenna, Citizens.

（操作員指示） 布萊恩·麥肯納，公民。

We're a couple of quarters removed now for the merger with OBDE. Where are we in terms of realizing the vast majority of those synergies. On the expense side, those are pretty straightforward. But just in terms of remixing some of the assets and also optimizing the funding side, I'm just trying to think through if there's any more upside to the 10.5% ROE from here, assuming all else equal?

我們已經與 OBDE 合併幾個季度了。我們在實現絕大多數綜效方面處於什麼位置？從費用方面來說，這些都很簡單。但是，就重新混合部分資產和優化融資方面而言，我只是想知道，假設其他所有條件相同，那麼 10.5% 的 ROE 是否還有上升空間？

Sure. Jonathan, why don't you handle the expense and financing side?

當然。喬納森，為什麼不處理費用和融資的問題？

Sure. So Brian, on the OpEx side, as we mentioned last quarter, the vast majority, really, all of that has came through immediately, and we've seen that -- we've seen those synergies take effect. On the financing side, it's a little bit of a slower burn just because we have certain financings in particular, on the secured side that have call dates or reinvestment periods that still need to come.

當然。因此，布萊恩，在營運支出方面，正如我們上個季度提到的那樣，絕大多數，實際上，所有這些都已經立即實現，我們已經看到 - 我們已經看到這些協同效應正在發揮作用。在融資方面，速度有點慢，因為我們有特定的融資，特別是在有擔保的融資方面，有贖回日期或再投資期間需要實現。

And so that will occur really over the course of -- the vast majority of it over the course of the next year or so, but it's happening piecemeal. So I would say that the vast majority there has not occurred, and then I'll hand it back -- about 20%, 25%.

因此，這將在未來一年左右的時間裡真正發生——其中絕大部分將發生，但它是零碎發生的。所以我想說，絕大多數情況都沒有發生，然後我會把它歸還——大約 20%、25%。

How much ROE firm benefit from additional financing synergies?

ROE 公司能從額外的融資綜效中獲益多少？

Another 50 basis points.

再增加50個基點。

On the portfolio rotation, that's going to take a little bit of time as well. Part of what we have been planning for as OBDE was not invested to the same extent as OBDC in some of the joint ventures that we have that generate a nice return -- so as we deploy capital into those strategies, we'll be able to essentially true up OBDC on a pro forma basis, which probably is another 25-plus basis points of ROE. So between the financing and the portfolio rebalancing, I think there's a potential for another 50, 75 basis points of ROE improvement over time as those things take effect.

對於投資組合輪換，這也需要一點時間。我們為 OBDE 規劃的部分投資並沒有像 OBDC 那樣在我們擁有的一些產生良好回報的合資企業中進行同等程度的投資 - 因此，當我們將資本部署到這些策略中時，我們將能夠在備考基礎上實質上平衡 OBDC，這可能是 ROE 的另外 25 個基點以上。因此，我認為，隨著融資和投資組合再平衡的實施，隨著時間的推移，ROE 有可能再提高 50 到 75 個基點。

Okay. That's really helpful. And then I appreciate all the detail on just kind of the broader capabilities across your credit platform, and you called these output in areas like alternative credit, digital infrastructure, et cetera. And it's great to hear the positive impact those businesses are having on just creating differentiated deal flow and really additional origination opportunities for OBC. I mean is there any way to quantify how much of year-to-date originations or commitments have come from these types of opportunities? And then is there a way to think about this mix longer term?

好的。這真的很有幫助。然後，我很欣賞您關於信用平台更廣泛功能的所有細節，您將這些功能稱為替代信貸、數位基礎設施等領域的產出。很高興聽到這些企業對創造差異化交易流程和 OBC 額外發起機會的正面影響。我的意思是，有沒有什麼方法可以量化今年迄今為止有多少起源或承諾來自這些類型的機會？那麼，有沒有辦法從長遠角度來考慮這種組合呢？

Sure. So look, I think that there's a couple of pieces to this, and I want to sort of separate them out. The first is Blue Owl as a platform has gotten into new lines of business that just we weren't in previously.

當然。所以看，我認為這裡有幾個部分，我想把它們分開。首先，Blue Owl 作為一個平台已經進入了我們以前沒有涉足的新業務領域。

As folks, I think know, but just to highlight, we acquired Atalaya Capital last year, which is in the business of what we call alternative credit, but some will call it asset-based lending. We also got into the business of managing data centers with our acquisition of IPI. Our real estate business has seen tremendous activity in the data center space.

我想大家都知道，但需要強調的是，我們去年收購了 Atalaya Capital，該公司從事我們所謂的替代信貸業務，但有些人稱之為資產抵押貸款。我們也透過收購 IPI 進入了資料中心管理業務。我們的房地產業務在資料中心領域表現十分活躍。

So the firm as a whole has a much broader opportunity set than ever before, and we are going to be selective, but many of those opportunities offer similar cash flow characteristics and return characteristics is what we've been doing in our direct lending business. And so we're going to be deliberate about what we would put in OBDC, but we have just a broader deal funnel, and we think that, that's valuable in and of itself, but especially in an environment where there's just less new sponsor deals.

因此，整個公司擁有比以往更廣泛的機會，我們將有所選擇，但其中許多機會提供類似的現金流特徵和回報特徵，這正是我們在直接貸款業務中所做的。因此，我們將慎重考慮在 OBDC 中投入哪些內容，但我們有一個更廣泛的交易管道，我們認為，這本身就很有價值，尤其是在新的贊助商交易較少的環境中。

So that's very attractive to us, it's early. And so I wouldn't -- looking backwards for this quarter and the previous quarters, I would say it's very modest because we're just getting that deal flow in place and just now in a position where we can commit to new deals and put them in the portfolios.

所以這對我們來說非常有吸引力，現在還為時過早。因此，回顧本季和前幾季，我會說這是非常溫和的，因為我們才剛開始進行交易流程，現在我們才能夠承諾新的交易並將其納入投資組合。

We've talked a couple of times in the script, we set up an equipment finance JV across our BDCs. So historically, it's had limited impact, but I will tell you the reason why we've mentioned it a couple of times today is we're seeing very consequential imbalance in this area. And so, I do think going forward, it's something that we will really benefit from. I kind of hesitate to quantify it on the fly, but if I would just sort of cuff it in the next couple of years, could you see 10% of the portfolio, 15% of the portfolio in some of these new strategies and don't hold me to that.

我們在腳本中已經討論過幾次了，我們在我們的 BDC 之間建立了一個設備融資合資企業。因此，從歷史上看，它的影響有限，但我要告訴你，我們今天多次提到它的原因是我們看到這個領域有非常嚴重的不平衡。因此，我確實認為，展望未來，我們會從中真正受益。我有點猶豫是否要即時量化它，但如果我在未來幾年內對其進行量化，你能否看到 10% 的投資組合、15% 的投資組合投入到一些新策略中，並且不要讓我局限於此。

But I want folks to know it can be meaningful, but I also want them to know it's not going to dominate our investing. But these are really, I think, attractive investments that will fit really well in our BDC and offer attractive risk-adjusted return. So just directionally meaningful but not change the overall complexion of the portfolio. We'll obviously keep everyone updated quarter-by-quarter as we start to make these types of investments.

但我希望人們知道它可以是有意義的，但我也希望他們知道它不會主導我們的投資。但我認為，這些都是真正有吸引力的投資，非常適合我們的 BDC，並提供有吸引力的風險調整回報。因此，這僅具有方向性意義，但不會改變投資組合的整體面貌。當我們開始進行此類投資時，我們顯然會按季度向大家通報最新情況。

Brian, to that end, 10% of Q1 originations were into these types of equity and JV investments.

布萊恩，為此，第一季 10% 的資金都投入了此類股權和合資投資。

Arren Cyganovich, Truist Securities.

Truist Securities 的 Arren Cyganovich。

You mentioned you're kind of cautiously optimistic about a rebound in activity in the second half. Maybe you could talk a little bit about what types of deals you're seeing? Are they predominantly M&A? Are they refinancing in how open our sponsors to getting deals done rather quickly?

您提到您對下半年經濟活動的反彈持謹慎樂觀的態度。也許您可以稍微談談您所看到的交易類型？他們主要進行併購嗎？他們是否對我們的贊助商進行再融資以便能夠快速完成交易？

Sure. I'll start and you can chime in. Look, we -- I always debate how much to lean in on this comment because we've been hopeful before and been disappointed before. But -- and we don't want to be -- we're not trying to lean in too much here. But there's been a noticeable pickup in engagement with sponsors in the last 60 days or so. That feels a little bit different. And if it were to really result in transactions, I think, can move the needle.

當然。我先開始，然後你可以加入。看，我們——我總是在爭論對這個評論該有多大程度的依賴，因為我們以前曾充滿希望，也曾感到失望。但是——我們也不想這樣——我們不想在這裡投入太多精力。但在過去 60 天左右的時間裡，與贊助商的合作明顯增加。感覺有點不同。如果它真的能夠促成交易，我認為，就能起到推動作用。

In terms of the flavors, it's a mix. We've seen inbounds on potential public to private activity, so public companies getting taken private, so that which would be brand new names to the market. Those are really exciting. There are still activity, where we're refinancing loans in the public market into the private markets. There's an ebb and flow there. There are certainly names going in the other direction from private to public, but there are syndicated loans that are getting refinanced in our market and then there's just good old-fashioned sponsors looking to potentially sell companies to other sponsors.

就口味而言，它是混合的。我們已經看到了潛在的上市公司私有化活動的出現，即上市公司被私有化，這對市場來說將是全新的名字。這些確實令人興奮。我們仍在進行將公開市場貸款再融資至私人市場的活動。那裡有潮起潮落。當然，也有一些公司從私人公司轉向公共公司，但在我們的市場上，銀團貸款正在獲得再融資，還有一些傳統的贊助商希望將公司出售給其他贊助商。

We continue to see a steady drumbeat of add-on acquisition financing for our portfolio that's been carrying us throughout. But I would say those first three buckets or so, there's been enough in each area that gives us some hope that this will translate into increased deal activity in the second half of the year. I'm always a believer like to see it actually happen versus predicting it will happen. But these deals are moving along in a nice clip, and hopefully, things will unstick here a bit.

我們繼續看到我們的投資組合中附加收購融資的穩定成長，這一直支撐著我們。但我想說的是，前三個領域已經有足夠的機會讓我們有希望轉化為下半年交易活動的增加。我始終相信，希望看到事情真正發生，而不是預測它會發生。但這些交易正在順利進展，希望事情能有所進展。

Got it. And then your leverage came back down within your target. Can you talk a little bit about where do you see leverage heading? Are you going to keep it around this level? Or might you lever it up, particularly if deal activity is starting to pick up.

知道了。然後你的槓桿率又回到了目標範圍內。能否稍微談談您認為槓桿的發展方向？你會保持這個水平嗎？或者你可能會加大槓桿，特別是當交易活動開始回升時。

Yes, sure. That was intentional. As we noted, we were comfortable at the higher end of our range last quarter, but we've delevered to just under 1.2 times. I think in this range, which is near the top end of our range is where you'll see us cover in terms of leverage. So very comfortable at this level and the onetime OBDE merger impact is now fully worked through. So high 115 to 120, the high end of our range, I think, is a good place to estimate.

是的，當然。那是故意的。正如我們所指出的，上個季度我們對區間的高端感到滿意，但我們的槓桿率已降至略低於 1.2 倍。我認為在這個範圍內，也就是接近我們範圍的頂端，你會看到我們在槓桿方面有所覆蓋。在這個水平上非常舒服，並且 OBDE 合併的影響現在已經完全解決了。因此，我認為，115 到 120 這個範圍的高端是一個很好的估計值。

Robert Dodd, Raymond James.

羅伯特多德、雷蒙德詹姆斯。

And if I can go back to your comment about these other strategies, Craig. I mean, I'll ask you a hypothetical and you can dodge it if you want. If the platform were to make a new acquisition of a new strategy tomorrow, what kind of time frame to onboard it, review it, maybe let it mature a little bit, then look, is it BDC appropriate and then build a structure?

克雷格，如果我可以回到你對這些其他策略的評論。我的意思是，我會問你一個假設的問題，如果你願意的話，你可以避開它。如果該平台明天要進行新的收購和新的策略，那麼在什麼樣的時間範圍內加入它、審查它、讓它成熟一點，然後看看它是否適合 BDC，然後建立一個結構？

I mean, is it -- if you made an acquisition tomorrow, it's like you might be onboarding those assets two years from now, if they're BDC appropriate? Or what's the time frame to view of whether something -- review and structuring, et cetera, et cetera, whether something is appropriate to add in terms of a new type of strategy to the BDC portfolio?

我的意思是——如果您明天進行收購，那麼您可能在兩年後才會收購這些資產，如果它們適合 BDC 的話？或者，在什麼時間範圍內可以查看某些內容 — — 審查和建構等等，是否適合以新類型的策略形式向 BDC 投資組合中添加某些內容？

Well, the acquisitions we've made are completely integrated and fully ramped deal flow is active, and our teams are integrated with those opportunities. We've already done all the work necessary to make sure investments can be appropriate structured properly, on pass muster in terms of allocation policies set up appropriate coordination.

嗯，我們所做的收購已經完全整合，交易流程也完全活躍，我們的團隊也已經融入了這些機會。我們已經完成了所有必要的工作，以確保投資能夠得到適當的結構調整，在分配政策方面符合要求並建立適當的協調。

So all the opportunities I mentioned earlier, that's all live now. And the delay is not from work internally, but just finding deals that work, and it takes time for deals to come in and we commit and they close. So it's just the life cycle of the deals at this point, not any holdups. We're live on this now, and we look weekly at opportunities that can fit across the platform and again, that's why we're saying -- we're talking about this because you're going to see as the third quarter investments show up that are a benefit of what we're talking about here.

因此，我之前提到的所有機會現在都已實現。而延遲並不是因為內部工作，只是尋找可行的交易，而交易的達成、我們做出承諾和完成都需要時間。因此，目前這只是交易的生命週期，沒有任何阻礙。我們現在正在對此進行關注，我們每週都會尋找適合整個平台的機會，這就是我們所說的 - 我們談論這個的原因，因為隨著第三季度的投資出現，您將看到這是我們在此討論的內容的好處。

In terms of your hypothetical, if you see us announce an acquisition at the Blue Owl level, once the deal closes, we're able to integrate and get things up and running really quickly measured in a month or two. It doesn't -- we're a nimble organization. We're ultimately a fairly focused and focused organization. We're in three major credit lines, credit, real assets and GP stakes by the time we announced the deal, you should assume we've diligenced it extraordinarily well and understand exactly how it's going to fit and whether it's appropriate and we can be investing in those strategies measured in months, but deals just have a cycle to themselves.

就您的假設而言，如果您看到我們宣佈在 Blue Owl 層級進行收購，那麼一旦交易完成，我們就能夠在一兩個月內快速整合並啟動和運行。事實並非如此——我們是一個靈活的組織。我們最終是一個相當專注且集中的組織。當我們宣布這筆交易時，我們已經擁有三大信貸額度，即信貸、實物資產和 GP 股份，您應該假設我們已經非常盡職地進行了調查，並且確切地了解它將如何適應以及是否合適，我們可以按月投資於這些策略，但交易本身有一個週期。

But I would just -- I would focus on the deals we've already announced rather than some hypothetical and just to say we're again, I think it's a huge positive for OBDC shareholders, why I'm highlighting it. These are really attractive risk-adjusted returns, originated and structured by teams with deep, deep, deep domain expertise and offer low double-digit plus ROEs.

但我只會——我會關注我們已經宣布的交易，而不是一些假設，只是想再次說，我認為這對 OBDC 股東來說是一個巨大的利好，這就是我強調這一點的原因。這些是真正有吸引力的風險調整回報，由擁有深厚領域專業知識的團隊發起和構建，並提供低兩位數以上的 ROE。

You know, Robert, you know well, like we've done this before, not at the acquisition level, but we've built joint ventures in aircraft and rail car finance and drug royalties and asset-based lending. I mean, these have been very accretive strategies. We're very deliberate about how we do them. But they offer additional diversification, additional consistent income on the benefits of scale. And I think it's a nice a nice way to allow us to continue to be very disciplined in our core sponsored lending business.

羅伯特，你知道，就像我們以前做過的那樣，不是在收購層面，而是我們在飛機和軌道車輛融資、藥品特許權使用費和資產抵押貸款方面建立了合資企業。我的意思是，這些都是非常有增值的策略。我們非常慎重地考慮如何做這些事。但它們提供了額外的多樣化，以及規模效益帶來的額外穩定收入。我認為這是一個很好的方式，讓我們能夠繼續嚴格遵守我們的核心贊助貸款業務。

Got it. Got it. I got one more on kind of related to the -- when we talk about public private markets, I mean, there's always swings that we're mad about. I mean there's a big sponsor, who's talking publicly or at least talking to Bloomberg about shifting a fair number of their deals in private credit to the syndicated loan market, which happens to be open right now with pretty tight spreads.

知道了。知道了。我還有一個與之相關的事情——當我們談論公共私人市場時，我的意思是，總是存在著令我們憤怒的波動。我的意思是，有一家大型贊助商正在公開談論或至少與彭博社談論將相當數量的私人信貸交易轉移到銀團貸款市場，而銀團貸款市場目前恰好開放，利差相當小。

Are you seeing anything in terms of like overall shifts in terms of share or anything like that? Or is that just another artifact of the noise that we currently see of swinging backwards and forwards between the two depending on points in the cycle.

您是否看到份額或類似方面的整體變化？或者這只是我們目前看到的噪音的另一個產物，根據週期中的點在兩者之間來回擺動。

I think it's a very healthy traditional market environment. I would say sponsors continue to shift more of their decisions and financing decisions to the private markets, especially for new deals. In terms of the trade balance in one direction or the other, it's pretty balanced, deals coming from public to private or from private to public. It's a healthy market where sponsors have two good choices and they're picking.

我認為這是一個非常健康的傳統市場環境。我想說的是，贊助商將繼續把更多的決策和融資決策轉移到私人市場，特別是對於新交易而言。就貿易平衡而言，無論是公私之間，或是私私之間，都是相當平衡的。這是一個健康的市場，贊助商有兩個不錯的選擇，他們正在挑選。

I mean, we've talked about this many times on these calls. There are going to be periods of times the typical order of fares as both markets are open and sponsors pick and that's the environment we're in now. There are going to be other periods of time, where the public markets are challenged and deal flow will swing to the private markets, but this is the way it should be. Both markets, there's plenty of deal flow to feed both markets and we continue to find that the sector shift is towards direct lending.

我的意思是，我們在通話中已經多次討論過這個問題。由於兩個市場都開放，贊助商會進行選擇，因此在某些時期票價會按照典型的順序排列，這就是我們現在所處的環境。在其他時期，公開市場將面臨挑戰，交易流將轉向私人市場，但這是應該的。這兩個市場都有大量的交易流來滿足這兩個市場的需求，我們繼續發現該行業正轉向直接貸款。

And then importantly, we continue to get a significant premium, better documentation, better diligence, and we continue to cherry pick, we think the best assets for the private markets. So I think it's a healthy functioning environment that suits us just fine.

然後重要的是，我們繼續獲得可觀的溢價、更好的文件、更好的盡職調查，我們繼續挑選我們認為最適合私人市場的資產。所以我認為這是非常適合我們的健康運作環境。

Mickey Schleien, Clear Street.

米奇‧施萊恩 (Mickey Schleien)，清晰街道。

Craig, this question may sound a little basic, but we're getting such mixed signals on the economy, whether we're looking at labor numbers or inflation or GDP growth. I just want to ask at a high level, where do you think we are in the credit cycle?

克雷格，這個問題聽起來可能有點基礎，但我們在經濟方面得到的訊號很複雜，無論我們關注的是勞動力數據、通貨膨脹還是 GDP 成長。我只是想從高層角度問一下，您認為我們處於信用週期的哪個階段？

So our companies continue to perform well. We talked about it in the script. They continue to grow modestly quarter-over-quarter, low single digits, more like double digits year-over-year. I would say, generally, we continue to see a modestly sort of expanding economy.

因此我們的公司繼續表現良好。我們在劇本中討論過這個問題。它們繼續保持季度環比小幅增長，增長率處於低個位數，但同比增長則接近兩位數。我想說，總體而言，我們將繼續看到經濟溫和擴張。

But I -- look, I know at one level, we have 300-plus portfolio companies at OBDC. And so investors will look to us as a barometer, but I just quickly rush to remind everyone, we are not a microcosm of the US economy. We are heavily concentrated in companies that we think are resistant to recession, particularly things like software and insurance brokerage and parts of health care, food and beverage and so we are not expecting to be an early warning sign of the US economy and weakness.

但我——看，我知道在某種程度上，我們在 OBDC 擁有 300 多家投資組合公司。因此，投資人會把我們視為晴雨表，但我只是想快速提醒大家，我們並不是美國經濟的縮影。我們高度集中在那些我們認為能夠抵禦衰退的公司，特別是軟體和保險經紀以及部分醫療保健、食品和飲料等行業，因此我們並不認為這會成為美國經濟疲軟的早期預警信號。

We have very few cyclicals, when you're reading about tariffs affecting auto. It's just not -- it's not something that impacts our portfolio. We have like no auto exposure. So I -- I read and consume economic information the same way I'm sure most investors do, and there's concern about the way the labor numbers and just general impact of tariffs and potential economic weakness. So I think the consensus is that growth is slowing in the US. But I'd say that's not what we're seeing. And I hope that if we got in a modest recession that, that would have even less impact on OBDC.

當您閱讀有關影響汽車的關稅時，我們發現週期性因素非常少。這不會影響我們的投資組合。我們沒有自動曝光。因此，我閱讀和消費經濟資訊的方式與大多數投資者一樣，我擔心勞動力數據以及關稅和潛在經濟疲軟的整體影響。因此我認為大家的共識是美國經濟成長正在放緩。但我想說，我們看到的並不是這樣的。我希望，如果我們陷入輕微的經濟衰退，這對 OBDC 的影響會更小。

And if, we do get into a recession or if things slow down meaningfully, and normally, we would see spreads widen in that sort of environment. And you mentioned, I think, in your prepared remarks that they may have troughed. Do you think that trough is sustainable given the amount of capital flowing into private credit? And are you seeing any signs of more pricing discipline in the market?

如果我們真的陷入經濟衰退，或者經濟明顯放緩，通常情況下，在這種環境下，我們會看到利差擴大。我認為，您在準備好的發言中提到，他們可能已經陷入低谷。考慮到流入私人信貸的資本數量，您認為這種低谷是可持續的嗎？您是否看到市場中出現了更多定價紀律的跡象？

My sense is spreads have troughed. I think that they've troughed and I'm hopeful at some point, they'll move -- they'll widen off the trough. I just -- I think the reason the spreads have gotten as tight as they are is only partly related to capital inflows into the private markets. It's also a white-hot syndicated loan market. And that market is at all-time tights and that we just talked about a minute ago, we compete with that market. And so that market, if that market widens, that will benefit private markets.

我的感覺是利差已經觸底。我認為它們已經觸底，我希望在某個時候它們會移動——它們會從低谷中走出來。我只是——我認為利差變得如此之小的原因只是部分與私人市場的資本流入有關。這也是一個白熱化的銀團貸款市場。而且那個市場一直處於緊張狀態，正如我們剛才討論的那樣，我們與那個市場競爭。因此，如果該市場擴大，私人市場將受益。

And that market tends to be fickle and cyclical. And so, if you go through a period of time where the syndicated market has some volatility, spreads will widen -- aero spreads are wide in the private markets, and then the deal flow environment continues to be modest. So I would say I'm not predicting it in the micro short term, but I would be hopeful that the next move in spreads is wider, not tighter, as any one of those factors comes into play more deal flow cooling public market or just some capital consumption in the private markets, where there's not quite as much capital out there for new deals.

而這個市場往往是變化無常且有週期性的。因此，如果經歷一段時間銀團市場出現一定波動，利差就會擴大──私人市場的航空利差很大，而交易流環境則會持續保持溫和。因此我想說，我不是在短期內進行預測，但我希望利差的下一步走勢是擴大，而不是縮小，因為任何一個因素都會發揮作用，更多的交易流會冷卻公開市場，或者只是私人市場的一些資本消耗，而私人市場中用於新交易的資本並不多。

Casey Alexander, Compass Point.

凱西‧亞歷山大 (Casey Alexander)，指南針點。

Craig, I'm just a little curious on the equipment leasing side. That market is often characterized by lower balance fixed rate, short duration type loans. Some which could be difficult to scale, particularly to the scale that OBDC is going to need for it to make a meaningful contribution to NII. So -- and it also often takes a large team of people in place to track collateral and things like that. So I'm curious how you guys plan to scale that business to something that's meaningful for OBDC?

克雷格，我只是對設備租賃方面有點好奇。該市場通常以較低餘額固定利率、短期貸款為特徵。有些可能難以擴展，特別是難以達到 OBDC 需要對 NII 有意義貢獻的規模。所以 — — 而且通常還需要一個龐大的團隊來追蹤抵押品和類似的東西。所以我很好奇你們計劃如何將這項業務擴展至對 OBDC 有意義的範圍？

Well, the reason we highlighted the equipment finance JV is not because we think it's going to be a massive investment. But to highlight the type of opportunities that we now have, particularly by our acquisition alternative credit space for equipment financing, joint ventures or other types of more asset-oriented joint ventures that can benefit OBDC. I think you're right, it will take time. It will take time for it to be meaningful. But as you know, we've done this before, Wingspire, which is one of the largest investments of OBDC has a very successful equipment financing business. Has a team, and it's a meaningful contributor, an important contributor to Wingspire results, which OBDC benefits from every quarter.

嗯，我們強調設備融資合資企業的原因並不是因為我們認為這將是一項巨大的投資。但要強調的是我們現在擁有的機會類型，特別是透過收購替代信貸空間進行設備融資、合資企業或其他類型的更注重資產的合資企業，這些都可以使 OBDC 受益。我認為你是對的，這需要時間。它需要時間才能變得有意義。但如你所知，我們以前做過這樣的事情，Wingspire 是 OBDC 最大的投資之一，擁有非常成功的設備融資業務。擁有一支團隊，並且是 Wingspire 成果的有意義的貢獻者、重要貢獻者，OBDC 每個季度都從中受益。

I would say, in the Equipment Finance business, one thing, and we'll share more detail on this when it's really impactful. So I don't want to spend too much time speculating. But particularly what's going on in data centers is creating the need for massive amounts of capital, where you're building out scale data centers and they have lots of financing needs for the data center itself and GPUs and the like. And you have some of the -- literally the most valuable companies in the world that are building these facilities and don't want to have assets on their books and it's creating very chunky opportunities for attractive, relatively short duration returns from potentially investment-grade counterparties.

我想說，在設備融資業務中，有一件事，當它真正產生影響時，我們會分享更多細節。所以我不想花太多時間去猜測。但特別是資料中心的發展需要大量的資金，當你建造大規模資料中心時，他們對資料中心本身、GPU 等都有大量的融資需求。而且，世界上一些最有價值的公司正在建設這些設施，並且不想在賬面上留下資產，這為從潛在的投資級交易對手那裡獲得有吸引力的、相對較短期限的回報創造了非常大的機會。

So these are the kinds of things that could be a bit chunkier than the really micro ticket equipment leasing that you're referring to. So it will be a mix. But I don't want to overemphasized the equipment leasing as being a needle mover for OBDC, but I do want shareholders to understand is that we're taking active steps to leverage our product capability to come up with ever more ways to diversify our portfolio and create consistent returns, and this will just be one of many tools.

因此，這些事情可能比您所指的微型設備租賃更為龐大。所以這將是一個混合體。但我不想過度強調設備租賃對 OBDC 的推動作用，但我確實希望股東明白，我們正在採取積極措施，利用我們的產品能力，想出更多方法來多樣化我們的投資組合併創造持續的回報，這只是眾多工具之一。

Finian O'Shea, Wells Fargo Securities.

富國證券的 Finian O'Shea。

Just a sort of a market level question on the non-tradeds, we wanted to ask given your position in that domain and of course, it's importance to direct lending. Seeing if you had thoughts on just the sort of tail off of gross inflows. And to be clear, industry-wide, post-April Liberation Day, they've continued to sort of tail in May and June. And then as it relates to direct lending and DSL, if this continues, do you think things can really cool down and spreads can (technical difficulty).

這只是關於非交易產品的一種市場層面的問題，我們想問的是您在該領域的地位，當然，它對直接貸款的重要性。看看您是否對總流入量的減少有什麼想法。需要明確的是，從整個產業來看，四月解放日之後，五月和六月的趨勢持續趨於平緩。然後，就直接貸款和 DSL 而言，如果這種情況持續下去，您認為情況真的會降溫，利差會（技術難度）。

What allows us to continue to sign up large transactions. So I think that picture is a very good one. And look, I think it really is showing the resilience of that channel despite what some might have predicted would be more negative. In terms of your question on spreads and the like, I covered this a minute ago, I think that there's three factors that are driving spreads to where they are now. Really strong public market, capital formation on the private side, modest M&A.

是什麼讓我們能夠繼續簽署大額交易。所以我認為這張照片非常好。而且，我認為這確實顯示了該頻道的彈性，儘管有些人可能預測結果會更加負面。關於利差等問題，我剛才已經提到過，我認為有三個因素導致利差達到目前的水平。公開市場真正強勁，私人資本形成，併購活動適中。

I think if any one of those three were to reverse core spreads widen of two of the three reverse course spreads will widen meaningfully I'd say of the 3, I'd bet on M&A and the public markets being towards the higher end of the list, not the lack of capital in the private space because of which continue to see a lot of interest from clients. Spreads, I'd like spreads to be tighter. I mean why (technical difficulty).

我認為，如果這三者中的任何一個能夠逆轉核心利差，那麼這三個中的兩個逆轉利差將顯著擴大，我想說，在這三個中，我押注併購和公開市場將位於列表的高端，而不是私人領域缺乏資本，因為這會繼續引起客戶的濃厚興趣。利差，我希望利差能更小一些。我的意思是為什麼（技術難度）。

Our alternative credit team has been in the leasing business for years and has been active in the space and if you look at regional bank pullback, things like health care equipment would be another great example, firms that have large capital spend equipment, don't have the benefit of regional bank balance sheets anymore. And so -- we think some of these environments for equipment leasing on the higher-end capital equipment side, are in a similar place that maybe direct lending was 10, 15 years ago as banks pull back, institutional capital has to step in. So I would anticipate it to be a diversified pool and there are some areas like data centers or health care equipment that we see that could be chunkier, but it should be a diversified pool, similar to how OBDC's portfolio is diversified.

我們的另類信貸團隊多年來一直從事租賃業務，並一直活躍於該領域，如果你看看區域銀行的撤資，醫療設備之類的東西就是另一個很好的例子，擁有大量資本支出設備的公司不再享有區域銀行資產負債表的好處。因此，我們認為高階資本設備方面的一些設備租賃環境與 10 到 15 年前的直接貸款環境類似，隨著銀行撤資，機構資本必須介入。因此，我預計它會是一個多元化的資金池，而且我們看到數據中心或醫療設備等一些領域的投資可能會更大，但它應該是一個多元化的資金池，類似於 OBDC 的投資組合多元化。

And then as a follow-up question, the recent Big Beautiful Bill, I believe, had accelerated depreciation. You can depreciate 100% in year 1. Was that a factor in deciding to go down the equipment financing group?

然後作為後續問題，我認為最近的“大美利堅法案”加速了人民幣貶值。您可以在第一年折舊 100%。這是決定加入設備融資集團的因素嗎？

No, it was not. It was something that we were thinking about well in advance of that.

不，不是。這是我們早就考慮過的事情。

Paul Johnson, KBW.

保羅·約翰遜，KBW。

I guess I'd ask, you guys have had pretty meaningful turnover over the last 18 months or so potentially a little bit higher than some of your peers. But as you're kind of looking at your back book of loans in the portfolio and then kind of spreads where they're at today, I think your average portfolio spread is about 5.8%. I mean, how do you kind of think about the spread differential of today's spreads, which seems like they've kind of troughed at this level and what's left in the back book.

我想問一下，你們在過去 18 個月左右的營業額相當可觀，可能比一些同行高一點。但是，當您查看投資組合中的貸款帳簿，然後查看它們目前的利差時，我認為您的平均投資組合利差約為 5.8%。我的意思是，您如何看待今天的利差差異，它似乎已經在這個水平上觸底，後面的賬簿上還剩下什麼。

I mean should we expect to kind of continue to see a little bit of incremental pressure on just general spread compression as things rotate out of the book? Or do you think at this point, they're close enough that the spread compression is sort of behind us.

我的意思是，隨著情況的變化，我們是否應該預期會繼續看到一般利差壓縮方面出現一點增量壓力？或者您認為此時它們已經足夠接近，價差壓縮已經落後於我們了。

Look, I think the vast majority of it has worked its way through. The sponsors are very -- the very efficient at identifying opportunities to refinance and reduce spread. Look, just to remind everyone, our loans, when we put a new loan in the book, typically have one, maybe two years of call protection where we get a premium after that, our loans are typically repayable at par.

瞧，我認為絕大多數問題都已經解決。發起人非常善於發現再融資和降低利差的機會。瞧，只是提醒大家，我們的貸款，當我們在賬簿上放入一筆新貸款時，通常都有一年，也許兩年的贖回保護期，在此期間我們會獲得溢價，之後我們的貸款通常按面值償還。

So one of the value propositions of direct lending is it's efficient for a sponsor in a loan that we're providing that is performing well and through its call protection for us to be able to have a conversation about a cost-effective refinancing. And so that happens. It's a lot easier, frankly, than the public markets. It's one of the reasons why the spot is like working with us.

因此，直接貸款的價值主張之一是，對於我們提供的貸款中表現良好的發起人來說，它是高效的，並且透過其贖回保護，我們能夠就具有成本效益的再融資進行對話。事情就是這樣發生的。坦白說，這比公開市場容易得多。這就是為什麼這個廣告就像是和我們一起工作的原因之一。

I think the vast majority of that has worked its way through. There's probably some modest amount that sponsors are holding off, either for call protection or they think they're going to exit a company, but I think a lot of it's worked its way through at this point. And you've seen that reflected, as you said, in the last 18 months. There's probably a few names, but most of them, I think, are pretty stable at this point.

我認為其中絕大部分已經解決。贊助商可能會保留一定數量的資金，要么是為了保護電話保護，要么是他們認為他們將要退出一家公司，但我認為目前大部分資金已經到位。正如您所說，在過去的 18 個月裡，您已經看到了這一點。可能有幾個名字，但我認為大多數名字目前都相當穩定。

Got it. Appreciate that. And then on that, as loans potentially refi into the BSL market as that happens, your junior capital exposure has declined quite a bit over the last few years. I mean is there an opportunity there kind of with the Truecordia deal to participate similar to the Truecordia deal to participate in a junior capital position as these investments move into the BSL market. I mean, is that a real investable opportunity that you see in the market? Or is that more kind of a one-off situation that presented itself?

知道了。非常感謝。然後，隨著貸款有可能重新融資到 BSL 市場，您的初級資本風險在過去幾年中已經下降了很多。我的意思是，當這些投資進入 BSL 市場時，是否有機會透過 Truecordia 交易參與類似於 Truecordia 交易的初級資本地位。我的意思是，您在市場上看到的是一個真正的投資機會嗎？或者這只是偶然出現的情況？

Look, I think it is an opportunity. I would characterize the opportunity though as closer to the one-off end of the spectrum, given where junior capital is pricing in the public markets as well. If you look at high yield spreads and the second lien spread environment for syndicated deals, they are very tight levels. And so -- when a deal goes BSL more often than not, it fully transitions that way. And so I think our relationship and incumbency and long-standing history with Truecordia was a differentiator for us.

看，我認為這是一個機會。不過，考慮到初級資本在公開市場的定價，我認為這個機會更接近一次性機會。如果你觀察一下銀團交易的高收益利差和第二留置權利差環境，你會發現它們處於非常緊張的水平。因此 —— 當一筆交易頻繁地採用 BSL 時，它就會完全轉向那種方式。因此，我認為我們與 Truecordia 的關係、在職經驗和長期歷史是我們與眾不同的因素。

And so I think that mattered quite a bit in this instance. If you look at the amount of discussion around names going back and forth, as Craig mentioned, it's actually pretty balanced though. And so I don't want to overplay names going to BSL not leaving us with a substantial junior capital opportunity. We're seeing an equal number of names come out of the BSL market and choose the direct markets, and we saw substantial volume in the last quarter from names transitioning out of the BSL market.

所以我認為在這種情況下這一點非常重要。正如 Craig 所提到的，如果你看一下圍繞名字的反覆討論量，你會發現它實際上是相當平衡的。因此，我不想誇大去 BSL 的名字，因為這不會為我們帶來大量的初級資本機會。我們看到相同數量的名稱從 BSL 市場中出來並選擇直接市場，我們在上個季度看到從 BSL 市場中轉出的名稱數量相當可觀。

So there is a balance between the two. And then new names, whether it be a new LBO or take private, new names continue to have that secular shift to choosing direct, which -- we continue to see and there hasn't been any shift there. So I think the opportunity set remains a very good one. And I think the junior capital side, if the public markets stay where they are, I think it will be more sporadic.

所以兩者之間存在著一種平衡。然後是新的名字，無論是新的槓桿收購還是私有化，新的名字繼續發生長期的轉向，選擇直接收購，我們繼續看到，那裡沒有任何轉變。所以我認為機會仍然非常好。我認為，就初級資本方面而言，如果公開市場保持現狀，我認為它會變得更加零散。

(Operator Instructions) We're showing no additional questions in queue at this time. I'd like to turn the floor over to Mr. Packer for closing comments.

（操作員指示）我們目前沒有顯示隊列中的其他問題。我想請帕克先生作最後發言。

Right. Well, we appreciate everyone's interest. We were really pleased with our quarter. I think it was one of the strongest in the industry and continued particularly terrific performance on the NII front and the dividend coverage front and the ROE front. So I appreciate everyone's interest and look forward to speaking with you again soon.

正確的。好吧，我們感謝大家的關注。我們對我們的季度感到非常滿意。我認為它是業內最強大的銀行之一，並且在 NII 方面、股息覆蓋率方面和 ROE 方面繼續保持著特別出色的表現。所以我感謝大家的關注，並期待很快能再次與你們交談。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's event. You may disconnect your lines or log off the webcast at this time, and enjoy the rest of your day.

女士們、先生們，今天的活動到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路或退出網路直播，享受剩餘的一天。