Natura &Co Holding SA (NTCO) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Natura &Co's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings. On this call today are Fabio Barbosa, CEO of Natura &Co; and Guilherme Castellan, CFO of Natura &Co. Joao Paulo Ferreira, CEO of Natura &Co Latin America will join for the Q&A session. The presentation that we'll be referring to during this call is available on the Natura &Co Investor Relations website.

歡迎閱讀 Natura &Co 2023 年第三季財報。 Natura &Co 執行長法比奧·巴博薩 (Fabio Barbosa) 出席了今天的電話會議；以及 Natura &Co. 財務長 Guilherme Castellan。 Natura &Co 拉丁美洲執行長 Joao Paulo Ferreira 將參加問答環節。我們在本次電話會議中提到的簡報可在 Natura &Co 投資者關係網站上找到。

I will now hand over to Fabio Barbosa.

現在我將把發言權交給法比奧·巴博薩。

Good morning or good afternoon to all of you, and thank you for joining us today. I'm very happy to be with you again. Natura &Co third quarter's performance continued the trend of the first 2 quarters of the year showing a strong expansion of growth, gross and EBITDA margin versus the previous year. Despite a small deceleration in revenues, mainly caused by the Wave 2 implementation letter and the continued decline trend sales at the Body Shop.

大家早安或下午好，感謝您今天加入我們。我很高興再次和你在一起。 Natura &Co 第三季的業績延續了今年前兩季的趨勢，與前一年相比，成長、毛利率和 EBITDA 利潤率均強勁成長。儘管收入略有下降，但這主要是由於 Wave 2 實施函和 Body Shop 銷售額持續下降的趨勢造成的。

The main highlight of the quarter was the launch of Wave 2 in Brazil, which showed positive initial results, delivering combined year-on-year revenue growth in the CFT category. Productivity remains gains and cross-selling more than offset the expected channel count reduction. Peru and Colombia have continued the rollout of the integration started in the first half of the year, showing further improvements in the productivity. Although there has been temporary challenge in the channel, we have seen the actions implemented by the team using early signs of recovery ahead of the holiday season. We are encouraged by the margin expansion of those countries in the most recent cycles which is the main objective of Wave 2.

本季的主要亮點是在巴西推出 Wave 2，該專案取得了積極的初步成果，實現了 CFT 類別的綜合收入同比增長。生產力仍然提高，交叉銷售足以抵消預期的管道數量減少。秘魯和哥倫比亞繼續推進上半年開始的一體化進程，生產力進一步提高。儘管管道中遇到了暫時的挑戰，但我們已經看到團隊利用假期前復甦的早期跡象所採取的行動。我們對這些國家在最近幾個週期中的利潤擴張感到鼓舞，這是第二波浪潮的主要目標。

Avon International posted as planned, broadly stable top line and further margin improvement, reaching the high single-digit adjusted EBITDA margin. The proceeds from the sale of Aesop closed in late August, enabled us to quickly advance in our liability management plan with more than half of our debt already prepaid by the end of the quarter. This is an important step to unlock sustainable value for our investors and deliver on our financial priorities of maintaining a strong capital structure, strict financial discipline on costs and expenses and boosting cash conversion.

雅芳國際按計畫公佈了整體穩定的營收和進一步改善的利潤率，達到了高個位數的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率。出售 Aesop 的收益已於 8 月底完成，使我們能夠快速推進負債管理計劃，到本季末已預付一半以上的債務。這是為我們的投資者釋放可持續價值並實現我們的財務優先事項的重要一步，即維持強大的資本結構、嚴格的成本和費用財務紀律以及促進現金轉換。

On the latter, we reached a neutral cash generation this quarter despite the normal season cash conception to build up inventories for the holiday season. Furthermore, making the third year of our sustainable -- sustainability division after having made substantial progress to -- our goals in September 2020. Our approach has evolved. We have realigned our metrics and targets to address the pressing concerns of our time. We have been a partner of the Union for Ethical Biotrade for over 15 years. And together, we will work toward Natura &Co's adoption of regenerative practice to deliver even more positive impact.

就後者而言，儘管正常季節現金概念是為假期季節建立庫存，但本季我們仍實現了中性現金產生。此外，在 2020 年 9 月實現我們的目標取得重大進展之後，我們的永續發展部門已進入第三年。我們的方法已經發生了演變。我們重新調整了指標和目標，以解決當今時代的緊迫問題。 15 年來，我們一直是道德生物貿易聯盟的合作夥伴。我們將共同努力，推動 Natura &Co 採用再生實踐，以產生更積極的影響。

Finally, this morning, we have just announced a buying agreement with Aurelius Investment Advisory Limited to sell the Body Shop. The transaction has an enterprise value of GBP 207 million, including an amount of GBP 90 million. This is another important step to continue to streamline our business, a journey that started in second half of 2022.

最後，今天早上，我們剛宣布與 Aurelius Investment Advisory Limited 達成出售 Body Shop 的購買協議。此次交易的企業價值為2.07億英鎊，其中金額為9000萬英鎊。這是我們繼續精簡業務的另一個重要步驟，這趟旅程始於 2022 年下半年。

With that, let me now hand over to Guil to comment on third quarter's performance in greater detail.

現在，讓我請 Guil 更詳細地評論第三季的業績。

Thank you, Fabio, and hello to everyone. I'll start with Natura &Co consolidated revenue on Slide 5, which stood at BRL 7.5 billion, down 0.7% in constant currency. In reais, sales were down 10.5% reflecting the depreciation of some operating currencies versus the reais. We will look at the performance (inaudible) shortly. But in a nutshell, we posted solid constant currency growth at Natura brands and broadly stable trend at Avon International, offset by another challenging quarter at the Body Shop and the expected reduction at Avon Lat Am amid Wave 2 rollout in Peru, Colombia and Brazil and also in preparation for other countries.

謝謝你，法比奧，大家好。我將從幻燈片 5 上的 Natura &Co 合併收入開始，該收入為 75 億雷亞爾，以固定匯率計算下降 0.7%。以雷亞爾計算，銷售額下降 10.5%，反映出一些營運貨幣相對雷亞爾的貶值。我們將很快查看性能（聽不清楚）。但簡而言之，我們公佈了Natura 品牌穩定的貨幣穩定增長和雅芳國際的基本穩定趨勢，但被美體小舖又一個充滿挑戰的季度以及雅芳拉丁美洲在秘魯、哥倫比亞和巴西推出第二波浪潮期間預期的下降所抵消。也在為其他國家做準備。

We turn to the adjusted EBITDA margin on Slide 6 which stood at 10% in Q3, marking another strong improvement of 190 bps year-on-year, with solid expansion across our businesses. These reflect the different moving parts with a strong 310 bps improvement in gross margin, SG&A efficiencies at the Body Shop and year-over-year improvement in selling expenses at Avon International, driven by transformational savings being implemented for some quarters already. These were partially offset by mainly 3 factors: first, the continued investments at the Natura brand notably in market; and finally, an increase in G&A at Avon International.

我們轉向幻燈片 6 中調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率，第三季為 10%，標誌著同比再次強勁改善 190 個基點，我們的業務穩步擴張。這些反映了不同的變化因素，在某些季度已經實施的轉型節約的推動下，Body Shop 的毛利率、SG&A 效率大幅提高了 310 個基點，以及雅芳國際 (Avon International) 的銷售費用同比改善。這些主要被三個因素部分抵消：首先，對 Natura 品牌的持續投資，尤其是在市場上的投資；最後，雅芳國際的一般行政費用增加。

On Slide 7, we focus on net income and underlying net income. Net income in Q3 was BRL 7 billion, which compares to a net loss of BRL 160 million in the corresponding period last year. The bottom line benefited from the capital gain from the disposal of Aesop. Q3 underlying net income, which is net income excluding transformational costs, restructuring costs, discontinued operations and PPA effects, thus excluding the Aesop capital gain, was BRL 745 million. This compares to a loss of BRL 198 million in the third quarter of 2022. This quarter, the one-off effects in net financial income and expenses related to the liability management of BRL 896 million and the tax shield related to such expenses of BRL 305 million were also adjusted.

在投影片 7 中，我們將重點放在淨利潤和基礎淨利潤。第三季淨利為 70 億雷亞爾，而去年同期淨虧損為 1.6 億雷亞爾。淨利受益於出售伊索的資本利得。第三季的基本淨利潤為 7.45 億雷亞爾，即不包括轉型成本、重組成本、終止營運和購電協議影響（因此不包括伊索資本利得）的淨利。相較之下，2022 年第三季虧損1.98 億雷亞爾。本季度，與負債管理相關的淨財務收入和支出的一次性影響為8.96 億雷亞爾，與此類支出相關的稅盾為305 雷亞爾。萬元也進行了調整。

Let's turn on Slide 8 to our cash flow. Q3 free cash flow from continuing operations was an outflow of BRL 1.6 billion, which compares to an outflow of BRL 39 million in the previous year. It's important to highlight that this quarter was particularly impacted by the liability management process with a cash outflow from non-underlying expenses of BRL 1.5 billion with an impact on the interest on debt and derivative settlement line. Excluding these one-off effects, free cash flow will be an outflow of BRL 57 million, broadly in line with the same period last year.

讓我們打開幻燈片 8 來了解我們的現金流。第三季持續經營業務產生的自由現金流流出 16 億雷亞爾，而前一年流出 3,900 萬雷亞爾。需要強調的是，本季尤其受到負債管理流程的影響，非基礎費用現金流出達 15 億雷亞爾，對債務利息和衍生性商品結算額度產生了影響。排除這些一次性影響，自由現金流將流出 5,700 萬雷亞爾，與去年同期基本持平。

Higher adjusted net income after operational impacts of discontinued operations was offset by inflow of BRL 47 million from working capital, lower than the inflow of BRL 470 million in Q3 2022. Working capital was impacted by the following: inventories due to the holiday build up at Natura &Co Lat Am and Avon International. Accounts payable consumptions of BRL 103 million during the quarter, mainly related to lower costs and expenses and the mix impact due to the lower weight of Home & Style category. Despite seeing overall improvements in accounts payables days year-over-year. This was offset by other assets and liabilities, mostly driven by higher restructuring and transformational expenses and phasing of expenses.

終止經營業務對營運影響後調整後淨利的增加被4,700 萬雷亞爾的營運資本流入所抵消，低於2022 年第三季的4.7 億雷亞爾流入。營運資本受到以下因素的影響： 假期期間庫存增加Natura &Co Lat Am 和雅芳國際。本季應付帳款消耗為 1.03 億雷亞爾，主要與成本和費用降低以及家居與時尚品類權重降低帶來的混合影響有關。儘管應付帳款週轉天數較去年同期有所改善。這被其他資產和負債所抵消，主要是由於重組和轉型費用以及分階段費用增加所致。

On Page 9, we look at our liquidity profile, which is marked by a return to a net cash position. We ended the quarter with a cash balance of BRL 6.8 billion, up from BRL 3.7 billion in the previous quarter and BRL 4.6 billion in the year ago quarter. We ended the quarter with a net cash position of BRL 700 million which compares with a net debt position of BRL 10 billion in Q2 as a result of the sale of Aesop for an enterprise value of $2.6 billion. The net debt-to-EBITDA ratio stood at minus 0.37x compared to plus 4.17x at the end of Q2 and 2.85x in Q3 of last year. This shows a very strong balance sheet that allows us to invest with discipline in our strategic priorities.

在第 9 頁，我們查看了我們的流動性狀況，其標誌是淨現金頭寸的回報。本季結束時，我們的現金餘額為 68 億雷亞爾，高於上一季的 37 億雷亞爾和去年同期的 46 億雷亞爾。本季結束時，我們的淨現金部位為 7 億雷亞爾，而第二季因以 26 億美元的企業價值出售 Aesop，淨負債部位為 100 億雷亞爾。淨負債與 EBITDA 比率為負 0.37 倍，而第二季末為正 4.17 倍，去年第三季為正 2.85 倍。這顯示了非常強大的資產負債表，使我們能夠在策略重點上進行嚴格的投資。

Note that in Q3, in connection with the conclusion of the sale of Aesop, Natura &Co Luxembourg Holding repaid almost $1.6 billion of debt plus accrued interest. This amount comprises of $468 million in disbursements under the revolving credit facility with maturity in October 2024. $250 million in a Club Loan maturing in November 2025. $550 million in a Tender Offer for Bonds maturing in May 2028 and $330 in a Tender Offer for Bonds maturing in April 2029. This repayment is part of our continued average management and our plan to deleverage the company after the completion of Aesop's disposal, as mentioned in our material fact dated April 3, 2023.

請注意，在第三季度，隨著 Aesop 的出售完成，Natura &Co Luxembourg Holding 償還了近 16 億美元的債務加上應計利息。該金額包括2024 年10 月到期的循環信貸安排下的4.68 億美元支出。2025 年11 月到期的俱樂部貸款中的2.5 億美元。2028 年5 月到期的5.5 億美元債券要約收購和2028年5 月到期的330 美元債券要約收購將於2029 年4 月到期。正如我們在2023 年4 月3 日的重要事實中所述，這筆償還是我們持續平均管理的一部分，也是我們在完成Aesop 處置後對公司去槓桿化的計劃的一部分。

As you see on the second chart, our cash position of BRL 6.8 billion is higher than the total of our debt payments. The average maturity of our debt is 5.7 years. And we faced limited debt repayments until 2028. Before turning to our performance by business unit, let's update you on our progress in the rollout of Wave 2. In Peru and Colombia, CFT productivity continued to show results above expectations, mostly driven by cross-sell, which led to further improvements in profitability year-on-year. As expected, the reduction in the beauty consultants count was concentrated in less productive ones. Short-term temporary operational disturbances were experienced during Wave 2 rollout in Peru and to a lesser extent in Colombia, caused by the reorganization of sales leaders, changes in our commercial incentives, radical Home & Style portfolio optimization, rebalance of product mix and transportational services optimization. Remediation initiatives were put in place in both countries, first signs of recovery are already seen.

正如您在第二張圖表中看到的，我們的現金部位為 68 億雷亞爾，高於我們的債務支付總額。我們的債務平均期限為 5.7 年。直到2028 年，我們面臨的債務償還有限。在討論我們按業務部門劃分的業績之前，讓我們先介紹一下我們在推出第2 波浪潮方面的最新進展。在秘魯和哥倫比亞，CFT 生產力繼續顯示出高於預期的結果，這主要是由跨部門推動的銷售，使得獲利能力較去年同期進一步改善。正如預期的那樣，美容顧問數量的減少主要集中在生產力較低的顧問身上。 Short-term temporary operational disturbances were experienced during Wave 2 rollout in Peru and to a lesser extent in Colombia, caused by the reorganization of sales leaders, changes in our commercial incentives, radical Home & Style portfolio optimization, rebalance of product mix and transportational services最佳化.兩國都採取了補救措施，復甦的初步跡像已經顯現。

Consultant satisfaction level is showing positive trends. In Brazil, the initial results of Wave 2 in the country show CFT revenue year-over-year growth. Cross-sell and productivity are already benefiting from the rollout more than offsetting the planned channel contraction. Brazil faced temporary operational disturbances similar to those seen in Peru and Colombia. And learnings from those markets are shortening the stabilization period. During the quarter, CFT in Brazil, Natura and Avon combined, show positive year-on-year growth.

顧問滿意度水準呈現正面的趨勢。在巴西，該國第二波投資的初步結果顯示 CFT 收入年增。交叉銷售和生產力已經從推出中受益，而不僅僅是抵消了計劃中的管道收縮。巴西面臨與秘魯和哥倫比亞類似的暫時性營運混亂。從這些市場中學到的教訓正在縮短穩定期。本季度，巴西、Natura 和雅芳的 CFT 合計呈現年比正成長。

Let's now look at performance by business unit starting with Natura &Co Lat Am. Total net sales were up by 2.5% in constant currency and down 9.4% in reais. This was driven by a solid double-digit growth of 18.6% at the Natura brand at constant currency, while the Avon brand was down in the low teens in the beauty category. The recently renamed Home & Style category, previously called Fashion & Home, saw a sharper decline as we continue to radically reduce its portfolio. The Natura brand continued to post strong momentum with year-on-year growth of 10.5% in Brazil on the back of a tougher comparable base than in Q2.

現在讓我們從 Natura &Co Lat Am 開始，按業務部門來看看業績。以固定匯率計算，總淨銷售額成長 2.5%，以雷亞爾計算下降 9.4%。這是由 Natura 品牌以固定匯率計算 18.6% 的兩位數穩健增長推動的，而雅芳品牌在美容類別中的銷量則下降到十幾歲。最近更名為「家居與時尚」類別（以前稱為「時尚與家居」）的下降幅度更大，因為我們繼續大幅減少其產品組合。由於可比基礎比第二季更加嚴格，Natura 品牌持續保持強勁勢頭，在巴西同比增長 10.5%。

Sales regained momentum as we roll out Wave 2 after decelerating temporarily in the run-up phase. In Hispanic Lat Am, net revenue was up 37.1% in constant currency. Excluding Argentina, revenue in Hispanic markets was up in low-single digits, still impacted by a softer yet positive performance in Mexico.

在啟動階段暫時減速後，隨著我們推出第二波銷售，銷售恢復動能。在拉丁美洲拉美地區，以固定匯率計算，淨收入成長了 37.1%。除阿根廷外，拉美裔市場的收入僅出現低個位數成長，但仍受到墨西哥疲軟但正面表現的影響。

At the Avon brand Lat Am, net revenue in beauty category was down 11.6% in constant currency. In Brazil, net revenues decreased 24.8% year-on-year, mainly due to the preparation Wave 2 in the region.

在雅芳品牌拉丁美洲，以固定匯率計算，美容類別的淨收入下降了 11.6%。在巴西，淨收入年減24.8%，主要是由於該地區正在準備第二波浪潮。

During the quarter, the Avon beauty category was impacted by the adjustments made to the commercial model, before the combination shows some top line recovery after the actual rollout of H2, leading to year-over-year growth of the combined safety category during the combined 2 cycles.

本季度，雅芳美容品類受到商業模式調整的影響，但在下半年實際推出後，合併後的營收出現了一定程度的恢復，導致合併後的安全品類比同比增長。2個週期。

In Hispanic markets, net revenue decreased by 1.5% in constant currency and by 18.7%, excluding Argentina. As already explained, some recent temporary challenges impacted the brand's performance in Peru and Colombia. In the Home & Style category, formerly known as Fashion & Home, Avon posted a decline of 38.7% in constant currency overall. This reflects our strategic focus on the beauty category with a radical optimization of our portfolio. In the Hispanic market, the decrease was 37.6% versus the same period last year, while in Brazil, the decrease was 41.6%.

在西班牙市場，淨收入以固定匯率計算下降了 1.5%，不包括阿根廷則下降了 18.7%。正如已經解釋的那樣，最近的一些臨時挑戰影響了該品牌在秘魯和哥倫比亞的表現。在家居與時尚類別（以前稱為時尚與家居）中，雅芳公佈以固定匯率計算整體下降了 38.7%。這反映了我們對美容品類的策略重點，並對我們的產品組合進行了徹底優化。在西班牙裔市場，與去年同期相比下降了37.6%，而在巴西，下降了41.6%。

We now turn to Natura &Co Lat Am's Q3 adjusted EBITDA and margin. As shown in the graph, adjusted EBITDA was BRL 645 million, and adjusted EBITDA margin was up by 100 bps to 12.3%. Margin expansion was driven by a 320 bps improvement in gross margin to 63.7%, benefiting from the carryover effect of price increases, richer category mix and marketing efforts. This was partially offset by SG&A investments, mainly related to Natura's marketing and energy expenses, as mentioned in the previous quarters. Furthermore, some SG&A pressure were driven by reduction of top line and mid-Wave 2 preparation in some countries where we did not explore the full opportunity coming from selling logistics and G&A expenses to be delivered when the integration is completed.

現在讓我們來看看 Natura &Co Lat Am 第三季調整後的 EBITDA 和利潤率。如圖所示，調整後 EBITDA 為 6.45 億雷亞爾，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率成長 100 個基點至 12.3%。由於價格上漲、更豐富的品類組合和行銷努力的結轉效應，毛利率提高了 320 個基點至 63.7%，推動了利潤率的擴張。如前幾季所述，這被 SG&A 投資部分抵消，主要與 Natura 的營銷和能源支出相關。此外，一些SG&A壓力是由於一些國家的收入減少和第二波中期準備工作的減少造成的，在這些國家，我們沒有充分利用銷售物流和整合完成後交付的G&A費用的機會。

Let's now move to Avon International. Revenue was broadly stable versus the same period last year, down 2.3% in constant currency and down 11.6% in reais. As higher pricing mix were offset by the expected reduction in the number of active representatives amid the commercial model adjustments with a particular focus on leaders' incentives and the structure. The beauty category posted another quarter of growth, up 1.8% year-on-year, mostly driven by fragrances. The Home & Style category for its part, continued last quarter's strength, with a decline amid the planned portfolio reduction. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 8%, up solid 440 bps year-on-year. Improving profitability was driven by a very strong 490 bps expansion in gross margin to 64.5%. Adjusted EBITDA margin evolution was also supported by a year-on-year decrease in selling expenses amid transformational savings, partially offset by an increase in G&A impacted by phasing of expenses and FX pressure. This quarter also show an evolution of our long-term goal to pursue healthy contribution margins in every region to which Avon international is exposed.

現在讓我們轉到雅芳國際。營收與去年同期相比基本穩定，以固定匯率計算下降 2.3%，以雷亞爾計算下降 11.6%。由於商業模式調整（特別關注領導者的激勵和結構）中活躍代表數量的預期減少抵消了較高的定價組合。美容類別再創季度成長，年增 1.8%，主要由香水推動。家居與時尚品類則延續了上季度的強勁勢頭，但由於計劃削減投資組合而出現下滑。調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 8%，較去年穩定成長 440 個基點。毛利率強勁成長 490 個基點至 64.5%，推動了獲利能力的提高。調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率演變也受到轉型節省中銷售費用同比下降的支持，但部分被分階段費用和外匯壓力影響的一般管理費用增加所抵消。本季度也顯示了我們的長期目標的演變，即在雅芳國際所涉足的每個地區追求健康的邊際貢獻。

We now move to the Body Shop. Q3 net revenues declined by 13.2% in constant currency and 15% in reais. Combined sales of core business distribution channels, in other words, stores, e-commerce and franchisees show a high single-digit decline in constant currency, a slight deterioration compared to the trend observed in the previous quarter, mostly driven by stores closure. Retail sales through core business distribution channels show sell-out same-store sales of minus 5%. Gross margin again show a timid improvement in Q3 expanding by 30 bps to 76.6%. This was mainly driven by mix and pricing. Despite significant operating deleverage, adjusted EBITDA margin improved again this quarter by 140 bps to 7.7%, driven by the slight gross margin improvement and strict cost control in line with the previous quarters.

我們現在前往 Body Shop。第三季淨收入以固定匯率計算下降 13.2%，以雷亞爾計算下降 15%。核心業務分銷管道（即商店、電子商務和加盟商）的合併銷售額以固定匯率計算呈現高個位數下降，與上一季觀察到的趨勢相比略有惡化，主要是由於商店關閉所致。透過核心業務通路的零售額顯示，同店銷售額已售罄-5%。第三季毛利率再次出現小幅改善，擴大 30 個基點至 76.6%。這主要是由組合和定價所驅動的。儘管經營去槓桿化程度很高，但由於毛利率略有改善以及與前幾季保持一致的嚴格成本控制，本季度調整後 EBITDA 利潤率再次提高 140 個基點至 7.7%。

Let me now hand back to Fabio for his concluding remarks.

現在讓我請法比奧作總結發言。

Thank you, Guil. I will conclude now with our key takeaways. First of all, with the announcement just made, I would like to highlight that streamlining our business continues to be a top priority for the company. We continue the simplification journey announced almost a year ago, which will allow us to prioritize our key markets and core business model. This laser-focused strategy combined with enhanced capital structure and improved cash flow conversion should unlock sustainable shareholder value, driven by our triple bottom line agenda.

謝謝你，吉爾。我現在將總結我們的要點。首先，在剛發布的公告中，我想強調，精簡我們的業務仍然是公司的首要任務。我們繼續實施近一年前宣布的簡化進程，這將使我們能夠優先考慮我們的關鍵市場和核心業務模式。在我們的三重底線議程的推動下，這種聚焦於雷射的策略與增強的資本結構和改善的現金流轉換相結合，應該會釋放可持續的股東價值。

Thank you very much for your attention and Guil, JP and I are now happy to take your questions.

非常感謝您的關注，Guil、JP 和我現在很樂意回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions). Our first question comes from Danniela Eiger with XP Investimentos.

（操作員說明）。我們的第一個問題來自 XP Investimentos 的 Danniela Eiger。

The first, I had some doubts regarding the material factors published around the Body Shop sale. So it would be great to have some additional information. Essentially how much debt the company currently has? What is the timing of the payment ex earnout? You mentioned that for 5 years, but just wondering the first installment, when it should be? And also the expected closing for the sale. And also something that was kind of not clear and not just for me but some clients as well. The GBP 207 million is including the earnout, that is GBP 117 million, excluding it, right? Just wanted to check that.

首先，我對圍繞 Body Shop 銷售發布的實質因素有一些疑問。因此，如果能獲得一些額外的資訊就太好了。主要是公司目前有多少債務？付款前的付款時間是什麼時候？你提到這個已經有五年了，但只是想知道第一期應該在什麼時候？以及預計的銷售結束。還有一些不清楚的事情，不僅對我來說，對某些客戶來說也是如此。 2.07 億英鎊包括收益，即 1.17 億英鎊，不包括收益，對嗎？只是想檢查一下。

Just -- and the second one, probably it would be to JP around Wave 2. If you could just share a little bit more details on these operational challenges that you are already facing in Brazil, especially the impact on sales of the leaders reorganization and also which actions you're implementing to mitigate that? And also on logistics, we've been seeing some challenges on logistics. Especially as we are consultants ourselves. And that is interesting, given that integration is still not in place. So it would be great to understand what are the main drivers behind this challenge.

只是——第二個，可能是第二波左右的 JP。如果您能分享一下您在巴西已經面臨的這些運營挑戰的更多細節，特別是領導者重組和銷售對銷售的影響。您正在採取哪些措施來緩解這種情況？在物流方面，我們也看到了物流上的一些挑戰。尤其是我們自己也是顧問。這很有趣，因為整合仍然沒有到位。因此，如果能夠了解這項挑戰背後的主要驅動因素，那就太好了。

Yes. Thanks for the question. Yes, as Fabio mentioned, again, we announced this important milestone today, right? As you know, since the second half of last year, we have started a big change in strategy, right, simplifying our business. Debt started, as you can probably remember, with the significant reduction and the scope of the holding group here, as well as the announced divestments of the (inaudible) basically to stabilize our capital structure and our -- and mitigate our debt.

是的。謝謝你的提問。是的，正如法比奧再次提到的，我們今天宣布了這一重要的里程碑，對吧？大家知道，從去年下半年開始，我們開始了策略上的一大轉變，對吧，簡化我們的業務。正如您可能還記得的那樣，債務開始於這裡控股集團的大幅縮減和範圍，以及宣布的（聽不清）撤資，基本上是為了穩定我們的資本結構和我們的債務，並減輕我們的債務。

Simultaneously, basically, we started a very important project with a very high focus in Lat Am, which is the Wave 2 project, (inaudible), led by Joao and the team. And we continue, of course, as you probably saw this quarter, the optimization of the margins of Avon International, which again achieved high single margins adjusted this quarter. So the divestment of the Body Shop just announced today, it fits that strategy of focus in our key regions and our core business model. And we're quite happy with that announcement.

同時，基本上，我們在拉丁美洲啟動了一個非常重要的項目，高度關注，即由 Joao 和團隊領導的 Wave 2 項目（聽不清楚）。當然，正如您可能在本季度看到的那樣，我們繼續優化雅芳國際的利潤率，該公司在本季度調整後再次實現了較高的單一利潤率。因此，今天剛宣布的 Body Shop 撤資符合我們重點關注重點區域的策略和我們的核心業務模式。我們對此公告感到非常滿意。

At this point, we will only disclose what it is -- in published in the earnings release. As you saw an enterprise value of approximately GBP 200 million, there are some payments throughout the period with the less payment completed in year 5 as it is disclosed. And to your point, yes, you're correct, it [doesn't] include the [$90 million] of earn-outs, right? So if you want to see the total value excluding the earn-outs, you just take the $90 million out of it.

目前，我們只會在收益報告中揭露具體內容。正如您看到的企業價值約為 2 億英鎊，整個期間有一些付款，其中披露的第 5 年完成的付款較少。就你的觀點而言，是的，你是對的，它[不]包括[9000萬美元]的收益，對吧？因此，如果您想查看不包括盈利的總價值，只需從中取出 9000 萬美元即可。

I'll now pass the word to JP, so he can basically talk about the second question.

我現在轉告JP，讓他基本上可以談第二個問題。

Thanks, Guil. Good morning, Danniela. So as regards the pause implementation issues that we faced in Peru, Colombia and Brazil, I can summarize them in basically 3 different natures. Product availability, late deliveries and field management.

謝謝，吉爾。早上好，丹妮拉。因此，對於我們在秘魯、哥倫比亞和巴西面臨的暫停實施問題，我可以將其概括為基本上三種不同的性質。產品可用性、延遲交貨和現場管理。

So as regards to the first, the combined mix of products and brands changed significantly in -- for a few brands or SKUs from what we used to have separately and that poses additional pressure on making those SKUs available in time. So we are seeing shortages in those operations.

因此，就第一個問題而言，產品和品牌的組合組合與我們過去單獨擁有的一些品牌或 SKU 相比發生了顯著變化，這對及時提供這些 SKU 造成了額外的壓力。因此，我們看到這些業務存在短缺。

The second one is to do our deliveries. We are combining transportation services in a few regions. And we have also sort of inherited addresses from the Avon database, which required some intimacy from truck drivers to actually know precisely where to drop the orders. So that takes a while to be reestablished.

第二個是我們的送貨。我們正在合併一些地區的運輸服務。我們也從雅芳資料庫繼承了地址，這需要卡車司機的一些親密程度才能真正準確地知道在哪裡下訂單。所以需要一段時間才能恢復。

Finally, as regards to the field management, as we changed a substantial part of the sales managers and the sales leaders, they are reestablishing the connections with the consultants. So this is, by and large, what we face in the 3 markets. We put corrective measures on all of them. The Peruvian operation is getting close, very close to stability already. Colombia is following. And in Brazil, we are basically still seeing a bit of issues with the shortages and late deliveries, which we expect to have stabilized before the year-end.

最後，關於現場管理，隨著我們更換了很大一部分銷售經理和銷售領導，他們正在重新建立與顧問的聯繫。總的來說，這就是我們在三個市場中面臨的情況。我們對所有這些都採取了糾正措施。秘魯的業務已經非常接近穩定。哥倫比亞緊隨其後。在巴西，我們基本上仍然看到一些短缺和延遲交貨的問題，我們預計這些問題將在年底前穩定下來。

Our next question comes from Joseph Giordano with JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的約瑟夫·佐丹奴。

Hello, good morning, everyone. (inaudible) I'd like to explore a little bit a few thing. So first, capital structure. So now we are at net cash position. Obviously, we have a turnaround ahead of us that blurs a little bit visibility. But my question to you is, how should we think about the capital structure, particularly now that you should be receiving proceeds from the Body Shop sale.

大家早安。 （聽不清楚）我想探索一些事情。首先是資本結構。所以現在我們處於淨現金狀況。顯然，我們面臨著一個轉機，但它的可見度有點模糊。但我向您提出的問題是，我們應該如何考慮資本結構，特別是現在您應該從 Body Shop 出售中獲得收益。

The second question goes on the tax structure. So we saw a materially higher efficiency and tax efficient company this quarter. So how should we be thinking about the recurring tax rate for the business. And last but not least, we still have some extra divestments that could take place, particularly related to assets of Avon in Brazil's real estate here. So if you could update us on that front, that will be great as well. Thank you very much.

第二個問題涉及稅收結構。因此，本季我們看到一家效率和稅收效率顯著提高的公司。那我們應該如何考慮企業的經常性稅率。最後但並非最不重要的一點是，我們仍然可能進行一些額外的撤資，特別是與雅芳在巴西房地產中的資產相關的撤資。因此，如果您能為我們提供這方面的最新信息，那就太好了。非常感謝。

Hi, Joe, thank you for the question. Always great to talk to you. Yes. So I think you touched in a few good points. I'll cover them in the order you asked. So the first one basically related to the capital structure. Again, as we announced before, we are in -- finally, in a moment that we're able to show a positive net cash position. Remember, keep in mind that given the seasonality of our business, basically Q4 is the quarter where we generate the most cash. So we're quite where we thought we will be basically with our current cash position at the end of Q3.

嗨，喬，謝謝你的提問。很高興與你交談。是的。所以我認為你提到了一些很好的觀點。我將按照您要求的順序介紹它們。所以第一個基本上與資本結構有關。再次，正如我們之前宣布的那樣，我們終於能夠展現出正的淨現金頭寸了。請記住，考慮到我們業務的季節性，基本上第四季度是我們產生最多現金的季度。因此，我們認為在第三季末我們將基本上保持目前的現金狀況。

And as you mentioned, we were quite happy and confident with where the business is (inaudible) to go with the Avon integration in Lat Am. As Joao mentioned, even though we may face some potential issues on this integration, the results are coming, right? As we saw in the last few cycles, the margin improvement is significant, and that gives us a lot of reasons to believe about the future of the business.

正如您所提到的，我們對雅芳在拉丁美洲的整合的業務進展（聽不清楚）感到非常高興和充滿信心。正如Joao所提到的，儘管我們在這種整合上可能會遇到一些潛在的問題，但結果即將到來，對嗎？正如我們在過去幾個週期中看到的那樣，利潤率的改善是顯著的，這讓我們有很多理由相信業務的未來。

At the same time, you can see the improved results and the trend that we're showing led by, of course, Angela and the team on the margin of Avon International, which, again, mainly driven by gross margin, but also with a significant SG&A savings, right, also [poise] us, of course, to increase significantly our cash flow generation outside Latin America. So we're happy with that.

同時，您可以看到我們所展示的改善結果和趨勢，當然是由安吉拉和雅芳國際邊緣團隊領導的，這又主要是由毛利率驅動的，但也有當然，顯著的SG&A 節省也使我們能夠大幅增加拉丁美洲以外地區的現金流量。所以我們對此感到滿意。

But yes, look, we have a (inaudible) still ahead of us, right? We don't want to minimize the efforts of the team and of course, the complexity of the execution. As we discussed in the past, there is no reason for a company as Natura, to continuously, in the long-term to operate with a net cash position, right? We discuss about our optimal capital structure and that optimal capital structure has to be leveraged, right?

但是，是的，看，我們前面還有一個（聽不清楚），對吧？我們不想最小化團隊的努力，當然還有執行的複雜性。正如我們過去討論的那樣，像 Natura 這樣的公司沒有理由持續、長期地以淨現金頭寸運營，對吧？我們討論我們的最佳資本結構，最佳資本結構必須利用槓桿，對嗎？

We understand that we have to be around 1x to 1.5x leverage in the long-term. But again, in the short-term, we are -- we understand the issues that we have. And of course, we are going to make sure that we have firepower even to potential [open] invest in the levers that are growing, right? We have important levers that we believe that can unlock a lot of value for our shareholders.

我們知道，從長遠來看，我們的槓桿率必須保持在 1 倍到 1.5 倍左右。但再次強調，從短期來看，我們了解我們所面臨的問題。當然，我們將確保我們有足夠的火力，甚至可以對正在增長的槓桿進行潛在的[開放]投資，對吧？我們擁有重要的槓桿，我們相信可以為股東釋放大量價值。

Again, you're seeing the strong performance of the Natura brand. But as well, again, other levers that we have communicated in the past that should become a priority for us as other countries in Latin America, highlighting here, Mexico and, of course, the overall deployment of our omnichannel strategy which has already paid yields with a very good performance of our retail in the last 2 quarters.

您再次看到了 Natura 品牌的強勁表現。但同樣，我們過去傳達的其他槓桿應該成為我們和拉丁美洲其他國家一樣的優先事項，這裡強調的是墨西哥，當然還有我們已經帶來收益的全渠道戰略的整體部署過去兩個季度我們的零售業績非常好。

So at the same time, look, we are confident on where we are. But again, in the short-term, we're glad with the firepower that we have. And of course, with any changes related to that, we will announce to the market but there is no forecast to do that in the short term.

所以同時，我們對自己的處境充滿信心。但從短期來看，我們對我們擁有的火力再次感到高興。當然，如果有任何與此相關的變化，我們將向市場宣布，但預計短期內不會這樣做。

On the tax side, this is also a very important topic for us as we continue to evolve and increase our margin worldwide, most of our countries, they become, of course, profit-making countries, right, through profit-making entities. This is quite important for us because, as you know, we still had in the past, countries that were basically generating losses, and of course, those losses cannot be deducted from other countries that generate profit. At the same time, with the integration of some business in Lat Am through Project (inaudible), the Wave 2, right, to the extent the law allows us in those countries, especially in Brazil. We will, of course, continue to take advantage of losses in the past. So it's very difficult, and we don't give guidance in terms of tax rate, but what you should continue to expect is a significant improvement in the next 3 years of our tax rate which, of course, as we have mentioned in the past, is going to be one of the key levers for our cash flow generation.

在稅收方面，這對我們來說也是一個非常重要的主題，因為我們在全球範圍內不斷發展和增加我們的利潤，我們大多數國家，當然，他們透過獲利實體成為獲利國家。這對我們來說非常重要，因為正如你所知，我們過去仍然有一些國家基本上在產生損失，當然這些損失不能從其他產生利潤的國家中扣除。同時，透過專案（聽不清楚）整合了拉丁美洲的一些業務，Wave 2，對，在法律允許的範圍內，我們在這些國家，尤其是巴西。當然，我們將繼續利用過去的損失。所以這是非常困難的，我們沒有給出稅率方面的指導，但是你應該繼續期待的是我們的稅率在未來3年會有顯著的改善，當然，正如我們過去提到的那樣，將成為我們產生現金流的關鍵槓桿之一。

And in the third point, you're right, we still have some fixed assets to sell. Of course, we are analyzing the market momentum for, of course, the divestment of those assets. We don't have, of course, now any rush to do anything, given our cash position. We want to do what is right in terms of value. But that is going to be an important lever as we disclosed in the past, to offset the transformational process that we're going to face in Lat Am, which again, they are quite high this year, but we should continue to expect them to remain high in 2024. And these divestments of assets, as you mentioned, they're going to be an important lever to offset. So yes, I think I cover all your 3 questions. Yes, I mean if you have any follow-ups, we can talk offline. Thank you.

第三點，你是對的，我們還有一些固定資產可以賣。當然，我們正在分析這些資產剝離的市場動能。當然，考慮到我們的現金狀況，我們現在並不急於採取任何行動。我們想做價值正確的事。但這將成為我們過去披露的一個重要槓桿，以抵消我們將在拉丁美洲面臨的轉型過程，今年的轉型過程再次相當高，但我們應該繼續期望它們2024 年仍處於高位。正如您所提到的，這些資產剝離將成為抵銷的重要槓桿。所以，是的，我想我已經回答了你所有的 3 個問題。是的，我的意思是，如果您有任何後續行動，我們可以線下交談。謝謝。

Our next question comes from Joao Soares with Citibank.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的若昂·蘇亞雷斯。

First, congratulations on management for restructuring the operation assess as you did. So I have 2 questions. First one, I just wanted to understand a bit of the cash proceeds dynamics as of Aesop, right. There's a clear breakdown when we look into the financial statements. There's a clear breakdown on how much this flow through the P&L, and there is an income statement and social contribution line of BRL 3.9 billion. So my question is pretty simple. I mean how do you expect -- is there -- how should we see potential cash payments of taxes on the transactions or any other cash payments here. I just want to understand, I mean, we saw the gross amount here in the cash flow of the proceeds, but I just wanted to understand if there are any other cash payments on taxes or I don't know, transaction costs, okay?

首先，恭喜管理層像您一樣重組了營運評估。所以我有兩個問題。第一個，我只是想了解一些伊索的現金收益動態，對吧。當我們查看財務報表時，可以看到明顯的細分。損益表中對這筆資金的流量進行了明確的細分，損益表和社會貢獻線為 39 億雷亞爾。所以我的問題很簡單。我的意思是，你認為我們應該如何看待交易稅或任何其他現金支付的潛在現金支付。我只是想了解，我的意思是，我們在收益現金流中看到了總金額，但我只是想了解是否還有其他現金支付稅款，或者我不知道，交易成本，好嗎？

The second point that I wanted to explore is there's a comment on the release, JP, about some setbacks during the Wave 2, and this affected the performance of Natura brand in Brazil. So I just wanted to understand if we can quantify those setbacks and understand the underlying results of Natura in Brazil?

我想探討的第二點是關於發布的 JP 的評論，關於第 2 波期間的一些挫折，這影響了 Natura 品牌在巴西的表現。所以我只是想了解我們是否可以量化這些挫折並了解 Natura 在巴西的潛在結果？

Hi, João. Thanks for the question. Yes, so if I understood correctly, your first question and then I'm going to try to tackle that and pass the second to Joao. Mainly related to the taxes on Aesop, is that correct? I understood that correctly?

嗨，喬奧。謝謝你的提問。是的，所以如果我理解正確的話，你的第一個問題，然後我將嘗試解決這個問題並將第二個問題傳遞給若奧。主要與伊索的稅收有關，對嗎？我理解正確嗎？

Yes. How should we see the cash payment on those taxes? If you can provide.

是的。我們該如何看待這些稅金的現金支付？如果你能提供的話。

So again, the -- I think the P&L (inaudible), as we have [disclosed] that is part of the continued operations alongside with the gain that we have, of course, compared to the book value. Again, as we have disclosed also in the past, we're not giving any specific guidance related to the taxes on Aesop. But of course, you can assume that, again, we -- and basically, João, just to be clear, we have until basically December 31, right, to have a better view on that.

再說一次，我認為損益表（聽不清楚），正如我們所[披露的]，這是持續運營的一部分，當然，與賬面價值相比，我們還獲得了收益。同樣，正如我們過去所披露的那樣，我們沒有提供與伊索稅收相關的任何具體指導。但當然，你可以假設，我們——基本上，João，需要澄清的是，我們基本上要到 12 月 31 日才能對此有更好的看法，對吧。

But you can assume that, again, to the extent that the law allows us, again, we can use any losses in the year, right? Related basically to any other potential divestments, such as the Body Shop right now or any other thing to offset part of -- part of the payment, right? So we're still working on that. Of course, again, we're making, of course, simplification on our structure, which, again, from a strategic perspective, that is very important. But of course, we continue to work on this tax issue. And of course, once we have more clarity to the market, we will disclose that more broadly.

但您可以再次假設，在法律允許的範圍內，我們可以使用當年的任何損失，對吧？基本上與任何其他潛在的撤資有關，例如現在的 Body Shop 或任何其他可以抵消部分付款的事情，對吧？所以我們仍在努力。當然，我們正在簡化我們的結構，從策略角度來看，這非常重要。當然，我們會繼續努力解決這個稅務問題。當然，一旦我們對市場有了更清晰的認識，我們就會更廣泛地揭露這一點。

I'll pass the word to Joao so he can answer the second question.

我會把這個訊息轉達給若奧，好讓他回答第二個問題。

Yes. João, as I said before, I mean, the issues we face are of 3 natures, late deliveries, product shortages, field management. In the case of Brazil, yes, indeed, there has been some late shipments at the end of the quarter which eventually overflow into Q4. So that affected the entire operation, both Natura and Avon.

是的。 João，正如我之前所說，我的意思是，我們面臨的問題有三個性質：交貨延遲、產品短缺、現場管理。就巴西而言，是的，確實在本季度末出現了一些延遲發貨，最終溢出到了第四季度。這影響了 Natura 和雅芳的整個營運。

The amount on Natura in Brazil is -- you cannot quantify, right?

巴西的 Natura 數量是——你無法量化，對吧？

I can quantify. I cannot tell you, though. We actually quantified it, but I cannot disclose that. Sorry.

我可以量化。但我不能告訴你。我們實際上量化了它，但我不能透露這一點。對不起。

Our next question comes from Irma Sgarz with Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的 Irma Sgarz。

Just quickly, 2 questions. Can you talk a little bit about what you see ahead in terms of channel size in Brazil as you go through the Wave 2 implementation? How does it compare to Peru and Colombia when you were at a similar stage of Wave 2 and where -- and were there any positive or negative surprises so far when it comes to specifically to the type of reps that you lost or the engagement of the base that you've retained?

很快，有 2 個問題。您能否談談您在實施 Wave 2 時對巴西渠道規模的看法？當您處於第二波類似階段時，它與秘魯和哥倫比亞相比如何？到目前為止，在具體涉及您失去的代表類型或代表的參與度時，是否有任何積極或消極的驚喜你保留的基礎？

And then the second question, how should we think about the outlook for transformation integration expenses especially at Natura &Co Lat Am. I think you alluded to, Guil, to those transformation costs still remaining high into 2024. But is it correct to think that the largest is now behind us? Or should it remain quite substantial and very helpful that you brought the breakdown of these or rough breakdown of this in the press release, but again, like how should we think about this breakdown also going forward? Should it be similar? Are there any buckets that are potentially going away?

然後是第二個問題，我們應該如何看待轉型整合費用的前景，尤其是 Natura &Co Lat Am。 Guil，我想您提到到 2024 年，轉型成本仍然居高不下。但是，最大的轉型成本現在已經過去的想法正確嗎？或者，您在新聞稿中對這些問題進行了細分或粗略細分，這應該仍然是相當實質性和非常有幫助的，但同樣，我們應該如何考慮未來的這種細分？應該是類似吧？是否有任何可能會消失的桶子？

JP here. I'll take the first and then Guil takes the second. So as it comes to negative surprises, I would say that the decline in Fashion & Home was steeper than I expected, although we planned for that, we said that before, we are aiming at higher productivity and cash generation. But that decline was steeper than I expected in all those markets. When it comes to the contraction of the size of the network, where we're seeing Brazil is similar to what we saw in the other countries at a similar stage. Basically, the smallest, least productive consultants face higher difficulties to keep their activities. Not a surprise. So we've been managing that accordingly. And so far, so good, I would say.

太平紳士在這裡。我拿第一個，然後吉爾拿第二個。因此，說到負面意外，我想說的是，時尚和家居的下降幅度比我預期的要大，儘管我們對此有所計劃，但我們之前說過，我們的目標是提高生產力和現金生成。但所有這些市場的跌幅都超出了我的預期。當談到網路規模的收縮時，我們在巴西看到的情況與我們在類似階段在其他國家看到的情況類似。基本上，規模最小、生產力最低的顧問在維持其活動方面面臨更大的困難。不足為奇。所以我們一直在相應地進行管理。我想說，到目前為止，一切都很好。

Guil, would you take the second on restructuring costs?

Guil，關於重組成本，你會選第二個嗎？

Yes, absolutely. Thanks, Irma. I think you probably remember the presentation that we had on the way to -- in August, right? There we show a little bit of the impact of the transformational costs for Lat Am, right. Look, we do expect that the worst is behind us in terms of year. But as we have mentioned before, we should expect, still to see high transformation costs, especially related to Project (inaudible), right? And again, we just want to highlight that I think that's back to the point that you raised on the breakdown of those costs, right? Those are really specific costs related to the implementation of (inaudible), right, all one-off costs. Again, as you can see, there is a significant part in Lat Am, specifically coming out of (inaudible) and then a significant part coming out of transition costs, right, which basically, as we mentioned, it's related to events, brochures, specialized communications, et cetera, et cetera, which is extremely linked to the implementation of the integration of both brands.

是的，一點沒錯。謝謝，艾爾瑪。我想您可能還記得八月我們在途中進行的演示，對嗎？在那裡，我們展示了拉丁美洲轉型成本的一些影響，對吧。看，我們確實預計最糟糕的一年已經過去了。但正如我們之前提到的，我們應該預料到，仍然會看到高昂的轉型成本，特別是與專案相關的成本（聽不清楚），對吧？再次，我們只是想強調，我認為這又回到了您提出的關於這些成本細目的問題，對嗎？這些確實是與實施（聽不清楚）所有一次性成本相關的具體成本。同樣，正如您所看到的，拉丁美洲有很大一部分，特別是（聽不清楚），然後很大一部分來自過渡成本，對吧，基本上，正如我們提到的，它與活動、小冊子、專業化的溝通等等，這與兩個品牌整合的實施密切相關。

So we just want to highlight that, that again, it's -- those are not generic costs. Those really one-off costs that we see linked to that integration. But we should still expect to see that level, especially in Lat Am. But also in Avon International as we continue to, of course, to execute a transformational agenda and improve our adjusted EBITDA margin. We should continue to expect to see that hearing out in 2024, again, with expectations that, again, the worst is behind us, as you mentioned.

因此，我們只是想再次強調，這些不是一般成本。我們認為這些真正的一次性成本與整合有關。但我們仍然應該期望看到這一水平，尤其是在拉丁美洲。當然，雅芳國際也將繼續執行轉型議程並提高調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率。我們應該繼續期待在 2024 年再次聽到這樣的聲音，正如您所提到的，最糟糕的時期已經過去了。

Our next question comes from Andrew Ruben with Morgan Stanley. Mr. Ruben, your line is open.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的安德魯魯本。魯本先生，您的線路已接通。

Our next question comes from [Maria Clara] (inaudible) from Itaú Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自義大利銀行的 [Maria Clara]（聽不清楚）。

Hello, I have 2. They are related to the implementation of Wave 2 in Brazil. So the first one is that you commented in the release that we should expect further channel contraction. So I just wanted to understand when should we expect a normalization of (inaudible), days ahead. And also, if you could give us more granularity on the cross-sell opportunities that you recognized? What are the main product categories that saw the highest cross-sell and do you see further room to optimize this cross-sell in these categories or see room for improvement in other ones?

您好，我有 2 個。它們與巴西實施第 2 波有關。第一個是您在新聞稿中評論說我們應該預期頻道會進一步收縮。所以我只是想了解我們什麼時候該期待未來幾天（聽不清楚）的正常化。另外，您能否更詳細地介紹您所認知到的交叉銷售機會？交叉銷售最高的主要產品類別是什麼？您是否認為這些類別中的交叉銷售還有進一步優化的空間，或者認為其他類別中還有改進的空間？

Hi, [Maria Clara], JP here. So yes, we expect the channel still to contract for at least 6 campaigns after the implementation, that takes us to the beginning of the year and from then onwards, we should see a sort of a regular management of our network of consultants.

你好，[瑪麗亞·克拉拉]，這裡是太平紳士。所以，是的，我們預計該管道在實施後仍將簽訂至少 6 個活動合同，這將我們帶到今年年初，從那時起，我們應該看到對我們的顧問網絡進行某種定期管理。

As regards to cross-selling, we are seeing cross-selling in all categories there. I mean in the case of Brazil, the opportunities are somewhat limited. As we said before, we have not yet integrated the operation into one single order. Consultants have to place 2 separate orders. And as much as we created some shortcuts for them to bring some items from the second brand so to say, that is still limited. That's why we said we see yet many opportunities going ahead because the levers for cross-selling that we are operating in the other countries, are still somewhat limited -- in Brazil, sorry.

至於交叉銷售，我們在所有類別中都看到了交叉銷售。我的意思是，就巴西而言，機會是有限的。正如我們之前所說，我們尚未將操作整合到一個訂單中。顧問必須下兩個單獨的訂單。儘管我們為他們創建了一些快捷方式來從第二個品牌帶來一些物品，但可以說，這仍然是有限的。這就是為什麼我們說我們看到了未來的許多機會，因為我們在其他國家/地區運營的交叉銷售槓桿仍然有限 - 在巴西，抱歉。

Our next question comes from Robert Ford with Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的羅伯特福特。

Big congratulations on the improvements. JP, can you talk a little bit about the quality of sales that you're dropping in Wave 2. And additionally, can you is the intended pricing architecture to the consumer and how you're preserving that given the scale discounts to your more productive consultants?

非常恭喜您的改進。 JP，您能談談您在第二波浪潮中下降的銷售品質嗎？此外，您能否向消費者介紹一下預期的定價架構，以及考慮到規模折扣可以提高您的生產力，您如何保持這一架構？顧問？

And then Fabio mentioned strict discipline in (inaudible) costs. And Guil, how do you think about the overall cost structure for Natura, given the smaller scope of the company, particularly in Brazil? And are you happy with where the business is now? Or is there room to fund greater brand investment by improving administrative efficiencies in the core business.

然後法比奧提到了（聽不清楚）成本的嚴格紀律。 Guil，考慮到 Natura 的規模較小，特別是在巴西，您如何看待該公司的整體成本結構？您對目前的業務狀況滿意嗎？或者是否有空間透過提高核心業務的管理效率來資助更大的品牌投資。

I'll start and Guil takes the second. Bob, I'm not sure I totally got it, but let me give you it a try. So when it comes to the product mix, we see, first of all, Natura benefiting more than Avon from the combination. I think that is a relevant information. We've created price -- we designed price corridors to place each one of our brands along those price corridors in Avon as more affordable offerings than Natura at a higher price position, and we've been trying to execute accordingly. We are learning how to manage the combined portfolio on a more dynamic basis, so not to tell you that everything that we design has already hit the operation.

我先開始，吉爾第二個。鮑勃，我不確定我是否完全明白，但讓我給你嘗試一下。因此，當談到產品組合時，我們首先看到，Natura 從組合中受益比雅芳更多。我認為這是相關資訊。我們創造了價格——我們設計了價格走廊，將雅芳的每個品牌放在這些價格走廊上，作為比 Natura 更實惠的產品，價格定位更高，我們一直在努力執行相應的措施。我們正在學習如何在更動態的基礎上管理組合投資組合，所以並不是要告訴您我們設計的所有內容都已經投入使用。

So there are many things we need to practice to be able to comply with those price corridors. But overall, I think that we've covered a very broad space in terms of the various price tiers across the various categories in beauty. And I think this -- that gives us a lot of power to play the different market opportunities in different cycles of the economy. So I hope that helps.

因此，我們需要練習很多事情才能遵守這些價格走廊。但總的來說，我認為我們已經涵蓋了美容各個類別的不同價格等級的非常廣闊的空間。我認為這給了我們很大的力量來利用不同經濟週期中的不同市場機會。所以我希望這會有所幫助。

Yes. Sorry Bob, can I take the second question?

是的。抱歉鮑勃，我可以回答第二個問題嗎？

Oh, yes, please.

哦，是的，請。

Yes. Perfect. So yes, no, I think, look, you're right. I think as you can see, the efforts that we're doing, I think, is twofold, right, related to our cost structure. First one is, of course, the efforts on each one of the BUs. And of course, part of that is disclosed -- only part, of course, it disclosed the transformational costs. But of course, there are, meanwhile, significant agenda to deliver savings on other SG&A lines while we continue to overinvest in our key priorities, key brands such as Natura and again, in marketing as we disclosed, right, this quarter as well, that was one of the points of the SG&A in Lat Am, right?

是的。完美的。所以是的，不，我想，你是對的。我認為正如你所看到的，我們正在做的努力是雙重的，與我們的成本結構有關。第一個當然是每個BU的努力。當然，其中的一部分被披露了——當然，只有一部分，它披露了轉型成本。但當然，與此同時，我們還有重要的議程來節省其他銷售、管理和行政費用，同時我們繼續對我們的關鍵優先事項、Natura 等關鍵品牌以及營銷方面進行過度投資，正如我們在本季度所揭露的那樣，是拉丁美洲 SG&A 的要點之一，對嗎？

But to the extent that we have a smaller business and of course, to the extent that the operational deleverage will hit us also, there's a big effort going on at the more broader central location, right? The more, the more broader, let's say, fixed costs, right, that we do believe and we are already working, there have to be, of course, significantly reduced as well in order for us not to suffer any potential fallbacks in EBITDA margin. So we're -- again, we are confident that we're going to be able to deliver that and continue our margin expansion story.

但就我們的業務規模而言，當然，就營運去槓桿化也會對我們造成的打擊而言，我們正在更廣泛的中心位置做出巨大努力，對吧？固定成本越多、越廣泛，我們確實相信並且我們已經在努力，當然，也必須大幅降低，以便我們不會遭受 EBITDA 利潤率任何潛在的下降。 。因此，我們再次相信，我們將能夠實現這一目標並繼續我們的利潤擴張故事。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our question and answer session for today. I would like to invite Fabio Barbosa to proceed with his closing statements. Please go ahead, sir.

女士們先生們，今天的問答環節到此結束。我想邀請法比奧·巴博薩繼續他的總結陳詞。請繼續，先生。

Thank you very much. I just want to stress the 2 accomplishments that are in line with what we agreed and proposed about 1.5 years ago. Number one is the focus on EBITDA margin and cash flow generation as opposed to a major focus only on growth and revenues. Thus, what you'll see is sometimes stable revenues, but always an improving EBITDA margin. That is by design and be it for more focus on CFT at the expense of focus on Home & Style, but also in terms of the CFT, which are the (inaudible) margin. So that's the first one that we are delivering.

非常感謝。我只想強調兩項成就，這與我們大約 1.5 年前的共識和提議是一致的。第一是專注於 EBITDA 利潤率和現金流生成，而不是只專注於成長和收入。因此，您有時會看到穩定的收入，但 EBITDA 利潤率始終在提高。這是設計使然，是為了更專注於 CFT 而犧牲對家居和風格的關注，而且也是在 CFT 方面，這是（聽不清楚）利潤。這是我們交付的第一個。

Number 2 has to do with strengthening the balance sheet by focusing the company on what we believe the company can do better. I mean, the strengthening of the balance sheet you see by yourselves, but also in part to see including with the announcement of the Body Shop today, that we continue with the idea that back to basics to focus on what are our areas of expertise and namely direct sales and the omnichannel that follows the direct sales where we start. That's where we believe we can do better. And that's what we are doing in Latin America. That's what we are doing, when we say we are internationally in the 7 countries where we are present and we will continue to strengthen the presence based on that, thus, being much more focused than we were when we went into an international expansion.

第二點與透過將公司重點放在我們認為公司可以做得更好的事情上來加強資產負債表有關。我的意思是，您自己看到了資產負債表的加強，但也部分看到了，包括今天宣布的 Body Shop，我們繼續堅持回到基礎知識的想法，專注於我們的專業領域和即直銷和繼直銷之後的全通路。這就是我們相信我們可以做得更好的地方。這就是我們在拉丁美洲所做的事情。這就是我們正在做的事情，當我們說我們在 7 個國家開展業務時，我們是國際化的，我們將在此基礎上繼續加強業務，因此，比我們進行國際擴張時更加專注。

Now back to basics, we are going to do what we believe we do best. So that's the message I want to stress. Thank you, everybody. Have a great day.

現在回到基礎，我們將做我們認為自己最擅長的事情。這就是我想強調的訊息。謝謝大家。祝你有美好的一天。

That does conclude the Natura &Co teleconference for today. Thank you very much for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines. Have a great day.

今天的 Natura &Co 電話會議到此結束。非常感謝您的參與。現在您可以斷開線路。祝你有美好的一天。