NerdWallet Inc (NRDS) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the NerdWallet, Inc.'s Third Quarter 2024 earnings conference call (Operator Instructions).

謝謝你的支持。歡迎參加 NerdWallet, Inc. 2024 年第三季財報電話會議（操作員說明）。

And now I would like to introduce your host for today's program, Caitlin MacNamee, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我想介紹一下今天節目的主持人，投資者關係主管凱特琳·麥克納米 (Caitlin MacNamee)。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Welcome to the NerdWallet Q3 2024 earnings call. Joining us today are Co-founder and Chief Executive Officer, Tim Chen; and Chief Financial Officer, Lauren St. Clair.

謝謝你，接線生。歡迎參加 NerdWallet 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天加入我們的是共同創辦人兼執行長 Tim Chen；財務長勞倫·聖克萊爾。

Our press release and shareholder letter are available on our Investor Relations website and a replay of this update will also be available following the conclusion of today's call. We intend to use our Investor Relations website as a means of disclosing certain material information and complying with disclosure obligations under SEC Regulation FD from time to time. As a reminder, today's call is being webcast live and recorded.

我們的新聞稿和股東信函可在我們的投資者關係網站上獲取，並且在今天的電話會議結束後也將提供此更新的重播。我們打算使用我們的投資者關係網站作為揭露某些重大資訊並不時遵守 SEC 法規 FD 規定的揭露義務的一種方式。提醒一下，今天的電話會議正在進行網路直播和錄音。

Before we begin today's remarks and question-and-answer session, I would like to remind you that certain statements made during this call may relate to future events and expectations and as such, constitute forward-looking statements. Actual results and performance may differ from those expressed or implied by these forward-looking statements as a result of various risks and uncertainties, including the risk factors discussed in reports filed or to be filed with the SEC. We urge you to consider these risk factors and remind you that we undertake no obligation to update the information provided on this call to reflect subsequent events or circumstances. You should be aware that these statements should not be considered a guarantee of future performance.

在我們開始今天的演講和問答環節之前，我想提醒您，本次電話會議中所做的某些陳述可能與未來的事件和預期有關，因此構成前瞻性陳述。由於各種風險和不確定性，包括已提交或將提交給 SEC 的報告中討論的風險因素，實際結果和業績可能與這些前瞻性陳述中明示或暗示的結果和業績有所不同。我們敦促您考慮這些風險因素，並提醒您，我們沒有義務更新本次電話會議中提供的資訊以反映後續事件或情況。您應該知道，這些陳述不應被視為對未來績效的保證。

Furthermore, during this call, we will present both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP measures is included in today's earnings press release, except where we are unable without reasonable efforts to calculate certain reconciling items with confidence.

此外，在本次電話會議中，我們將介紹 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。今天的收益新聞稿中包含了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 指標的調節，除非我們在不採取合理努力的情況下無法自信地計算某些調節項目。

With that, I will now turn it over to Tim Chen, our Co-Founder and CEO. Tim?

現在，我將把它交給我們的聯合創始人兼執行長 Tim Chen。提姆？

Thanks, Caitlin. In Q3, we exceeded our outlook for both revenue and non-GAAP operating income despite continued headwinds in organic search and an anemic loans end market. Our business is cyclical, but headwinds and tailwinds will offset each other over time. So our priority is growing from cycle to cycle. To that end, I am especially proud of the share gains we have made cycle over cycle in insurance and small- and medium-sized businesses, which are more than offsetting lending headwinds.

謝謝，凱特琳。儘管自然搜尋和貸款終端市場疲軟，但第三季的收入和非公認會計原則營業收入仍超出了我們的預期。我們的業務是週期性的，但隨著時間的推移，逆風和順風會相互抵消。因此，我們的首要任務是從一個週期到另一個週期不斷成長。為此，我對我們在保險和中小企業領域取得的一個又一個週期的份額增長感到特別自豪，這足以抵消貸款逆風。

Our insurance business has grown 6 times versus the 2021 peak pre-hard market. While this is partly due to higher than normal levels of re-shopping happening as premiums have increased, we have also made significant investments to improve our insurance shopping experience. These efforts have enabled us to scale performance marketing in the category more efficiently as both carrier and consumer demand have increased. At the same time, premiums have increased dramatically since 2021, increasing the size of the end market.

與 2021 年預硬市場高峰相比，我們的保險業務成長了 6 倍。雖然這在一定程度上是由於保費增加導致重新購買的數量高於正常水平，但我們也進行了大量投資來改善我們的保險購物體驗。隨著營運商和消費者需求的增加，這些努力使我們能夠更有效地擴大該類別的效果行銷。同時，自2021年以來保費大幅成長，終端市場規模不斷擴大。

Similarly, in Q3, our SMB vertical saw double-digit year-over-year growth, driven by our renewals business and SMB products categories in spite of a tough macro environment in SMB loans. With these strong results in insurance and SMB, we grew revenue 25% year-over-year. However, credit cards revenue declined 16% year-over-year. We attribute this to both underwriting constraints and pressure in organic traffic in certain subcategories.

同樣，在第三季度，儘管中小企業貸款的宏觀環境嚴峻，但在續訂業務和中小企業產品類別的推動下，我們的中小企業垂直業務仍實現了兩位數的同比增長。憑藉保險和中小企業的強勁業績，我們的營收年增了 25%。然而，信用卡收入較去年同期下降16%。我們將此歸因於某些子類別的承保限制和自然流量壓力。

After a stronger start of the quarter, we saw some additional deterioration in our search visibility in mid Q3. While traffic to our monetizing shopping-oriented content started to rebound as we exited the quarter, traffic to our non-monetizing learning-oriented content did not. As a result, monthly unique users were down 7% year-over-year in Q3.

在本季開局強勁之後，我們發現第三季中期的搜尋可見度進一步惡化。雖然在本季結束時，以貨幣化購物為導向的內容的流量開始反彈，但以非貨幣化學習為導向的內容的流量卻沒有。因此，第三季每月獨立用戶數較去年同期下降 7%。

Looking forward, we expect to see a full quarter of impact from search headwinds to our higher volume learning-oriented content in Q4, which means MUU growth, will decelerate. However, we anticipate eventual normalization back to year-over-year MUU growth.

展望未來，我們預計第四季度搜尋逆風會對我們更高容量的學習型內容產生整整一個季​​度的影響，這意味著 MUU 成長將會放緩。然而，我們預計最終 MUU 成長將恢復正常。

We earned $23 million in non-GAAP operating income, up $13 million year-over-year. We are on track to deliver the $30 million in annualized savings from the reduction in force we announced in July 2024, and we will see our first full quarter of benefit in Q4. We also adjusted the seasonality of our brand spend to drive more impact, spending less year-over-year in Q3, but with plans to spend more year-over-year in Q4.

我們的非 GAAP 營業收入為 2,300 萬美元，年增 1,300 萬美元。我們預計透過 2024 年 7 月宣布的裁員計畫實現每年 3000 萬美元的節省，並且我們將在第四季度看到第一個完整季度的效益。我們也調整了品牌支出的季節性，以產生更大的影響力，第三季的支出較去年同期減少，但計畫第四季的支出較去年同期增加。

In my Q2 shareholder letter, I outlined strategic areas of investment as we sought to operate more efficiently while investing in our vision. One of them is vertical integration, which I believe will be key to bringing more people to us directly by improving our shopping experiences and building deep and reoccurring relationships.

在我的第二季股東信中，我概述了策略投資領域，因為我們在投資於我們的願景的同時尋求更有效率的營運。其中之一是垂直整合，我相信這將是透過改善我們的購物體驗和建立深入且重複的關係來直接吸引更多人來找我們的關鍵。

We recently closed the acquisition of Next Door Lending, a mortgage brokerage to provide mortgage shoppers with more hands-on guidance. I have really enjoyed getting to know Next Door Lending's principles, Doug and Jonathon, through this process. They are kindred spirits who bootstrap their business and share our focus on operational efficiency as well as a consumer first orientation with the customer reviews to match. While the upfront deal consideration is small, the strategic alignment presents a significant opportunity for us to drive better outcomes for consumers, lenders and NerdWallet.

我們最近完成了對 Next Door Lending 的收購，這是一家抵押貸款經紀公司，旨在為抵押貸款購買者提供更多實踐指導。我真的很高興透過這個過程了解 Next Door Lending 的原則、Doug 和 Jonathon。他們是志趣相投的人，共同開創了自己的業務，並與我們一樣注重營運效率以及消費者至上的導向，並與客戶評論相匹配。雖然前期交易考慮的金額很小，但策略調整為我們提供了一個重要的機會，可以為消費者、貸款人和 NerdWallet 帶來更好的結果。

We expect the acquisition to contribute approximately 1 to 2 percentage points of growth to our Q4 '24 revenue outlook. Although I have highlighted vertical integration as a key focus area for our team, we continue to drive progress across all of our strategic pillars in Q3, land and expand, vertical integration and registrations and data-driven engagement. Our land and expand efforts increase the breadth and depth of guidance we provide across financial topics as well as the diversity of our audience.

我們預計此次收購將為我們 24 年第 4 季的營收前景貢獻約 1 至 2 個百分點的成長。儘管我強調垂直整合是我們團隊的重點領域，但我們將繼續推動第三季所有戰略支柱的進展，包括土地和擴張、垂直整合和註冊以及數據驅動的參與。我們的土地和擴展努力增加了我們提供的金融主題指導的廣度和深度以及受眾的多樣性。

In Q3, we continued our early expansion efforts in Australia with the launch of our first comparison shopping marketplace for this audience. Additionally, we're seeing our efforts to nurture our Smart Money podcast audience pay off. Our analysis shows that our Smart Money podcast audience is increasingly valuable, and we have scaled monthly average downloads to 250,000. We will continue to invest in meeting consumers where they are on podcast platforms, YouTube and TikTok to drive brand loyalty and expand our overall audience.

第三季度，我們繼續在澳洲進行早期擴張，為該受眾推出了第一個比較購物市場。此外，我們還看到我們培養 Smart Money 播客受眾的努力得到了回報。我們的分析表明，我們的 Smart Money 播客受眾越來越有價值，我們已將月平均下載量擴大到 250,000 次。我們將繼續投資在播客平台、YouTube 和 TikTok 上與消費者見面，以提高品牌忠誠度並擴大我們的整體受眾群體。

As I shared, this quarter, we have made significant investments in vertical integration or the process of pairing NerdWallet's brand and reach with best-in-class user experiences. Efforts included extending human-assisted support to our home and life insurance experiences. Additionally, our SMB team continued our efforts to improve our sales concierge experience to improve our renewal process. I look forward to taking learnings from our acquisition of Fundera, the origin of our SMB business and applying them to Next Door Lending in our mortgage vertical, especially as the rate environment improves for shoppers.

正如我所分享的，本季度，我們在垂直整合或將 NerdWallet 的品牌和影響力與一流的用戶體驗配對的過程中進行了大量投資。我們所做的努力包括將人工輔助支援擴展到我們的家庭和人壽保險體驗。此外，我們的 SMB 團隊繼續努力改善我們的銷售禮賓體驗，以改善我們的續約流程。我期待著從收購 Fundera（我們中小企業業務的起源）中汲取經驗教訓，並將其應用到我們抵押貸款垂直領域的 Next Door Lending 中，尤其是在購物者的利率環境有所改善的情況下。

The acquisition is an exciting step forward in our ability to offer more "do it together" and "do it for me" services. As with Fundera, we believe we have an opportunity to leverage NerdWallet's trusted brand to enhance Next Door Lending's existing business during a cyclical recovery while providing our consumers with a better experience. We believe this partnership will enable us to build deep and reoccurring relationships with consumers and take more market share while improving mortgage unit economics.

此次收購是我們在提供更多「一起做」和「為我做」服務的能力方面邁出的激動人心的一步。與 Fundera 一樣，我們相信我們有機會利用 NerdWallet 值得信賴的品牌在週期性復甦期間增強 Next Door Lending 的現有業務，同時為我們的消費者提供更好的體驗。我們相信，這種合作關係將使我們能夠與消費者建立深厚的、經常性的關係，並獲得更多的市場份額，同時改善抵押貸款單位的經濟效益。

Part of the reason for our focus on vertical integration is that these improved shopping experiences allow us to register more consumers, in turn allowing us to reengage them over time with new features and opportunities to save or earn more money.

我們專注於垂直整合的部分原因是，這些改進的購物體驗使我們能夠註冊更多的消費者，進而使我們能夠隨著時間的推移透過新功能和機會重新吸引他們，以節省或賺更多錢。

As in Q2, the enhancements to our insurance shopping flows drove significant registered user growth this quarter with cumulative registered users now over 23 million. Additionally, we continue to invest in NerdWallet+, our new membership product. As a reminder, NerdWallet+ rewards members for making smart financial decisions and provides access to exclusive rates on certain products from participating financial institutions.

與第二季一樣，保險購物流程的增強推動了本季註冊用戶的大幅成長，累計註冊用戶現已超過 2,300 萬。此外，我們繼續投資新的會員產品 NerdWallet+。提醒一下，NerdWallet+ 獎勵做出明智財務決策的會員，並提供參與金融機構的某些產品的獨家利率。

This quarter, we launched insurance assistant, a tool that analyzes members' insurance rates and automatically re-shops for better policies if available as well as a treasury bills account.

本季度，我們推出了保險助手，該工具可以分析會員的保險費率並自動重新購買更好的保單（如果有）以及國庫券帳戶。

Although NerdWallet+ is in its early days, we have already seen that members have a higher lifetime value than other registered users who themselves have 5 times the lifetime value of overall visitors, suggesting significant opportunity as we relentlessly improve the product.

儘管NerdWallet+ 還處於早期階段，但我們已經看到會員的終身價值高於其他註冊用戶，而其他註冊用戶的終身價值是整體訪客的5 倍，這表明我們在不斷改進產品的過程中存在著巨大的機會。

Before I pass it over to Lauren, I want to extend my thanks to her. As you may have read, Lauren will be leaving NerdWallet in March. Lauren joined NerdWallet in 2020 to lead our initial public offering and transition to a public company, and she has been a great partner to me in this process. In particular, she has done a fantastic job of building a great team. I'm grateful that we will have Lauren's assistance with ensuring an orderly transition. In the meantime, thank you, Lauren.

在我把它交給勞倫之前，我想向她表示感謝。您可能已經讀到，勞倫將於三月離開 NerdWallet。Lauren 於 2020 年加入 NerdWallet，領導我們的首次公開發行和向上市公司的轉型，在這個過程中她一直是我的重要合作夥伴。特別是，她在建立一支優秀團隊方面做得非常出色。我很感激勞倫能夠幫助我們確保有序過渡。同時，謝謝你，勞倫。

Thanks, Tim. It's been an incredible journey. And since I will be here for a little while longer, we'll have time for goodbyes next earnings call. For now, we're focused on closing the year out strong. To that end, let's get into our Q3 results.

謝謝，蒂姆。這是一趟不可思議的旅程。由於我將在這裡待一段時間，我們將有時間在下一次財報電話會議上告別。目前，我們的重點是強勁地結束這一年。為此，讓我們來看看第三季的結果。

We ended the quarter above our revenue guidance range, delivering Q3 revenue of $191 million, up 25% year-over-year. Our revenue growth was primarily driven by the resurgence we have seen in our insurance vertical as well as SMB, though we continue to face a cyclically depressed lending environment.

本季結束時，我們的收入超出了我們的指導範圍，第三季營收達到 1.91 億美元，年增 25%。我們的收入成長主要是由保險垂直領域以及中小企業的復甦推動的，儘管我們仍然面臨週期性低迷的貸款環境。

Let's take a deeper look at the revenue performance during the quarter within each category.

讓我們更深入地了解本季每個類別的收入表現。

Credit cards delivered Q3 revenue of $45 million, declining 16% year-over-year. Growth decelerated versus Q2 as underwriting tightened a bit, combined with the pressures in organic search traffic that have been a bit more pronounced within credit cards. While we've seen a recovery in other verticals, we still have room to improve in some areas of credit cards. Conversely, on the issuer side, we believe we are seeing some early signals of issuer appetite returning and have made some headway in improving areas of the organic search experience that we believe will help provide tailwinds to our credit cards vertical in the long run.

第三季信用卡營收為 4,500 萬美元，年減 16%。由於承保稍微收緊，再加上信用卡內部自然搜尋流量的壓力更為明顯，與第二季相比，成長放緩。雖然我們看到其他垂直領域的復甦，但信用卡的某些領域仍有改進的空間。相反，在發行人方面，我們相信我們正在看到一些發行人興趣恢復的早期信號，並且在改善有機搜索體驗方面取得了一些進展，我們相信從長遠來看，這將有助於為我們的信用卡垂直領域提供動力。

Loans generated Q3 revenue of $24 million, declining 28% year-over-year. Our personal loans vertical declined 49% year-over-year and down 8% sequentially as the end market remains challenging. Despite the recent rate cuts, we still believe that there is a backlog of consumer demand in personal loans as high loan rates continue to dampen consumer appetite to refinance credit card debt, while elevated delinquency rates have kept underwriting standards tight.

第三季貸款收入為 2,400 萬美元，年減 28%。由於終端市場仍充滿挑戰，我們的個人貸款垂直年減 49%，較上季下降 8%。儘管最近降息，但我們仍然認為，個人貸款的消費者需求積壓，因為高貸款利率繼續抑制消費者為信用卡債務再融資的興趣，而拖欠率上升則導致承保標準吃緊。

Partially offsetting the decline in personal loans was growth in mortgages. Q3 saw accelerating mortgage revenue growth as we are beginning to see the benefit of rate reductions in this vertical.

抵押貸款的成長部分抵消了個人貸款的下降。第三季抵押貸款收入成長加速，因為我們開始看到該垂直領域降息的好處。

However, with the vast majority of household mortgages reported at under 5% rates, we do not expect to see significant acceleration in growth beyond these levels in the near term. The growth in mortgages is still primarily driven by strength in home equity products as consumers access the record levels of equity in their homes. We believe that we remain in a prime position to take advantage of further increasing loan demand as it surfaces.

然而，由於絕大多數家庭抵押貸款利率低於 5%，我們預計短期內不會出現超過此水準的顯著加速成長。抵押貸款的成長仍然主要由房屋淨值產品的強勁推動，因為消費者的房屋淨值達到了創紀錄的水平。我們相信，我們仍然處於有利地位，可以利用貸款需求進一步增加的機會。

As Tim mentioned, we expect to see approximately a 1 to 2 percentage point benefit to our Q4 revenue growth from the recent acquisition of Next Door Lending and the revenue going forward will be reported as part of our loans revenue category.

正如蒂姆所提到的，我們預計最近收購 Next Door Lending 將使我們第四季度的收入成長受益約 1 到 2 個百分點，並且未來的收入將作為我們貸款收入類別的一部分進行報告。

SMB products delivered Q3 revenue of $28 million, growing 12% year-over-year. We continued to see pressure in SMB loan originations with rates remaining elevated and underwriting remaining tight. However, this was more than offset by growth in our renewals portfolio, which showcases the benefit of our vertical integration strategy and the reoccurring nature of the vertical when we pursue a higher touch experience.

中小企業產品第三季營收為 2,800 萬美元，較去年同期成長 12%。我們繼續看到中小企業貸款發放面臨壓力，利率仍然較高，承保仍然緊張。然而，這被我們續訂產品組合的成長所抵消，這展示了我們垂直整合策略的好處以及當我們追求更高的觸控體驗時垂直的重複性。

We also delivered growth with our other product offerings. While we do not expect to see a materially accelerating growth profile in the near term, we believe there is substantial opportunity to grow both the loans and other products businesses in the long term.

我們也透過其他產品實現了成長。雖然我們預計短期內成長不會大幅加速，但我們相信，從長遠來看，貸款和其他產品業務有大量發展機會。

Finally, our emerging verticals, formerly named our other verticals revenue product category, finished Q3 with revenue of $94 million, growing 129% year-over-year. As a reminder, after the regrouping of SMB products revenue, emerging verticals consist of areas such as banking, insurance, investing, and international.

最後，我們的新興垂直產業（以前稱為其他垂直產業收入產品類別）在第三季完成時營收為 9,400 萬美元，較去年同期成長 129%。提醒一下，中小企業產品收入重組之後，新興垂直產業包括銀行、保險、投資和國際等領域。

Insurance revenue grew 916% year-over-year in Q3, more than offsetting pressure in banking. We entered the quarter seeing consistently improving demand from both consumers and partners and believe that the end market will stay robust, assuming inflation remains stable.

第三季保險收入年增916%，足以抵銷銀行業的壓力。進入本季度，我們看到消費者和合作夥伴的需求持續改善，並相信，假設通膨保持穩定，終端市場將保持強勁。

Growth was also aided by our ability to improve the product experience by collecting a bit more information upfront to better route customers to relevant products for them. Partially offsetting this growth, banking declined 26% year-over-year as we saw demand continue to decline alongside interest rates.

我們透過預先收集更多資訊來改善產品體驗，從而更好地引導客戶找到相關產品，這也有助於我們的成長。由於需求隨著利率的下降而持續下降，銀行業年減了 26%，部分抵銷了這一增長。

Moving on to investments and profitability. During Q3, we delivered $22.9 million of non-GAAP operating income above our Q3 guidance range. Despite incremental in-period cost savings during Q3, the non-GAAP profitability outperformance was not as large as revenue due to our success in scaling performance marketing.

轉向投資和獲利能力。第三季度，我們實現了 2,290 萬美元的非 GAAP 營業收入，高於第三季的指導範圍。儘管第三季期間成本節省不斷增加，但由於我們在擴大績效行銷方面取得了成功，非公認會計準則獲利能力的表現並不如收入那麼大。

The meaningful year-over-year margin accretion was driven by both the partial quarter impact of our cost actions we announced at the end of July as well as reducing our brand investment within the quarter as campaign timing shifted into October. We believe continuing to invest in brand advertising even through cyclical troughs will benefit the brand in the long term, and we will be data-driven on the levels at which we spend during shorter time frames.

利潤率較去年同期顯著增加的原因包括我們在 7 月底宣布的成本行動對部分季度的影響，以及隨著活動時間移至 10 月而減少的品牌投資。我們相信，即使經歷週期性低谷，繼續投資品牌廣告將使品牌長期受益，而且我們將根據數據來確定較短時間範圍內的支出水平。

We also earned over $37 million of adjusted EBITDA. In the third quarter, we earned GAAP operating income of $6.6 million and net income of $0.1 million, which includes $7.8 million of restructuring expenses and a $7.7 million income tax provision. Similar to what we've mentioned in previous quarters, we expect to be a cash taxpayer for the foreseeable future. Please refer to today's earnings press release for a full reconciliation of our GAAP to non-GAAP measures.

我們還獲得了超過 3700 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA。第三季度，我們的 GAAP 營業收入為 660 萬美元，淨利潤為 10 萬美元，其中包括 780 萬美元的重組費用和 770 萬美元的所得稅撥備。與我們在前幾個季度提到的類似，我們預計在可預見的未來將成為現金納稅人。請參閱今天的收益新聞稿，以了解我們的 GAAP 與非 GAAP 指標的全面調整。

Consumers continue to turn to the Nerds for their money questions. We provided trustworthy guidance to 22 million average monthly unique users in Q3, down 7% year-over-year. The broad organic traffic challenges that we have been experiencing is the primary driver of the decline. We are seeing the largest pressure to our year-over-year growth occur in our learn traffic, which is typically non-monetizing in the near-term, though an important brand engagement tool for long-term relationships with consumers.

消費者繼續向書呆子尋求金錢問題。第三季度，我們為 2,200 萬平均每月獨立用戶提供了值得信賴的指導，年減 7%。我們所經歷的廣泛的有機流量挑戰是下降的主要驅動因素。我們發現，我們的年成長面臨的最大壓力來自學習流量，儘管它是與消費者建立長期關係的重要品牌參與工具，但短期內通常無法獲利。

We expect to continue to see MUUs decline year-over-year in the short-term as we await normalization from these new levels and are comparing to a second half of 2023 that grew MUUs over 20% year-over-year.

我們預計短期內 MUU 將繼續同比下降，因為我們正在等待這些新水平的正常化，並與 2023 年下半年的 MUU 同比增長超過 20% 進行比較。

Despite near-term challenges, MUUs this quarter had a 2-year compounded annual growth rate of 7%, showcasing our ability to drive increasing consumer demand through the NerdWallet brand.

儘管近期面臨挑戰，但本季 MUU 的 2 年複合年增長率為 7%，這展示了我們透過 NerdWallet 品牌推動不斷增長的消費者需求的能力。

On to our financial outlook. As shown in our Q3 results, we expect to continue delivering significantly improved levels of revenue growth despite many of our verticals facing cyclical headwinds. We expect to deliver fourth quarter revenue in the range of $164 million to $172 million, which at the midpoint would increase 26% versus prior year.

關於我們的財務前景。正如我們第三季的業績所示，儘管我們的許多垂直行業都面臨週期性阻力，但我們預計收入成長水準將繼續顯著提高。我們預計第四季營收將在 1.64 億美元至 1.72 億美元之間，中間值將比去年同期成長 26%。

To give you more color on our Q4 revenue expectations, we would typically expect to see a seasonal decline of roughly low double digits in revenue from Q3 to Q4, which our outlook reflects. The primary driver of year-over-year revenue growth in the fourth quarter is still expected to come from insurance. And while we expect to continue facing tight lending conditions across both credit cards and loans, we will have slightly easier year-over-year comps in personal loans in Q4.

為了讓您更清楚地了解我們對第四季營收的預期，我們通常預期第三季到第四季營收會出現約兩位數的季節性下降，這也是我們的前景所反映的。預計第四季營收年增的主要動力仍來自保險。儘管我們預計信用卡和貸款將繼續面臨嚴格的貸款條件，但第四季度個人貸款的年比情況將略有改善。

Moving to profitability. We expect Q4 non-GAAP operating income in the range of $8 million to $11 million. Our non-GAAP operating income outlook assumes a full quarter of our expected cost reductions as a result of the actions we announced in July. And as a reminder, last quarter, we provided an outlook for Q3 brand expenses to be lower year-over-year and for Q4 brand expenses to be higher year-over-year.

轉向盈利。我們預計第四季非 GAAP 營業收入在 800 萬美元至 1,100 萬美元之間。我們的非 GAAP 營業收入展望假設，由於我們 7 月宣布的行動，我們預計成本將減少整整一個季​​度。提醒一下，上個季度，我們預計第三季品牌費用將年減，第四季品牌費用將比去年同期上升。

Our Q3 results and Q4 outlook are consistent with that guidance as Q3 brand expenses were down approximately $7.5 million year-over-year and Q4 is expected to be up a bit less than that year-over-year. As we look at the second half in aggregate, at the midpoint of our Q4 guidance, we expect to improve non-GAAP OI margin by over 1 point year-over-year.

我們第三季的業績和第四季的前景與該指引一致，因為第三季的品牌費用比去年同期下降了約 750 萬美元，而第四季的增幅預計將略低於去年同期。當我們整體來看下半年時，在我們第四季度指導的中點，我們預計非 GAAP OI 利潤率將年增 1 個百分點以上。

Our Q4 guidance equates to an expected full year 2024 non-GAAP OI margin of approximately 5.8% to 6.2% of revenue and adjusted EBITDA margin in the range of 14.75% to 15% of revenue. The main driver of our expectations being near the bottom of our prior range is we see a larger portion of our revenue growth coming from paid marketing.

我們第四季的指引相當於預期 2024 年全年非 GAAP OI 利潤率約為營收的 5.8% 至 6.2%，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率約為營收的 14.75% 至 15%。我們的預期接近先前範圍底部的主要驅動力是我們看到收入成長的很大一部分來自付費行銷。

As we've mentioned in the past, we view paid marketing as a means to an end, and we'll continue to spend in a disciplined manner with the aim to be paid back within the quarter in which we spend and expect paid marketing to remain a larger component of our monetizing traffic in the future.

正如我們過去提到的，我們將付費行銷視為達到目的的一種手段，我們將繼續以有紀律的方式支出，目標是在我們支出的季度內得到回報，並期望付費行銷能夠未來仍然是我們貨幣化流量的更大組成部分。

Should there be further federal funds rate reductions, we would expect a recovery in the interest rate sensitive areas of our business to come from both unpaid and paid channels that will help with overall margin accretion. This gives us confidence that there is still a path to the medium- and long-term targets that we issued back in March. While we are not guiding to any 2025 expectations at this time, we do expect to deliver margin accretion next year as we scale revenue and maintain cost discipline across our business.

如果聯邦基金利率進一步降低，我們預期我們業務中利率敏感領域的復甦將來自無償和有償管道，這將有助於整體利潤率的成長。這讓我們有信心實現我們三月發布的中長期目標。雖然我們目前沒有對 2025 年的任何預期進行指導，但隨著我們擴大收入並維持整個業務的成本控制，我們確實預計明年將實現利潤成長。

I would also like to take a minute to talk about capital allocation. Our philosophy has not changed. We will continue to be acquisitive when the timing, opportunity and price are right, and we also plan to opportunistically repurchase our shares. We seek to allocate capital towards uses that drive the highest risk-adjusted rate of return. That being said, our strategy will be to apply different discount rates to each form of discretionary capital allocation.

我還想花一點時間談談資本配置。我們的理念沒有改變。當時機、機會和價格合適時，我們將繼續進行收購，我們也計劃趁機回購我們的股票。我們尋求將資本分配給能夠帶來最高風險調整報酬率的用途。話雖這麼說，我們的策略是對每種形式的可自由支配資本配置應用不同的折扣率。

During Q3, we repurchased 5.8 million shares at an average price of $12.29 per share. Subsequent to the end of the third quarter, we have exhausted the remainder of the $15 million share repurchase authorization that the Board authorized in September, and the Board has approved a new authorization of $25 million. We also opportunistically entered the mortgage brokering market during a cyclical trough with the acquisition of Next Door Lending.

第三季度，我們以每股 12.29 美元的平均價格回購了 580 萬股股票。第三季末後，我們已經用完董事會在 9 月授權的 1,500 萬美元股票回購授權的剩餘部分，董事會已批准了 2,500 萬美元的新授權。我們也在週期性低潮期間透過收購 Next Door Lending 趁機進入抵押貸款經紀市場。

We are making progress on ensuring we meet our commitments to you, our shareholders, and remain proud of the way our Nerds have rallied around an evolving landscape amidst organizational changes and are working as hard as ever to improve the things within our control.

我們在確保履行對您、我們的股東的承諾方面取得了進展，並為我們的書呆子們在組織變革中圍繞不斷變化的形勢團結起來並一如既往地努力改進我們控制範圍內的事情感到自豪。

With that, we're ready for questions. Operator?

至此，我們就可以回答問題了。操作員？

Michael Infante from Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的麥可‧因凡特 (Michael Infante)。

Tim, I just wanted to follow up on some of your organic traffic comments. Like if I just generally think about how your share of a particular query has evolved over time, how are you sort of thinking about some of the key initiatives that you have in place to sort of mitigate the impact of some of the things that we're seeing in terms of both AI Overviews, Reddit, et cetera? I know you're obviously in the process of mix shifting your revenue composition towards the existing installed base over time. But I'm curious your views in terms of how you anticipate some of the medium-term dynamics to play out? Thanks.

蒂姆，我只是想跟進您的一些自然流量評論。就像如果我只是一般性地思考您在特定查詢中所佔的份額如何隨著時間的推移而變化，那麼您如何考慮您為減輕我們所採取的某些措施的影響而採取的一些關鍵舉措？您是否了解AI 概述、Reddit 等？我知道隨著時間的推移，您顯然正在將收入構成轉向現有的安裝基礎。但我很好奇您對如何預測一些中期動態的看法？謝謝。

Thanks for the question. So yes, just as a reminder for everyone, we've historically talked about learn and shop traffic as it pertains to organic search visibility. So I'll just provide a little bit more color there and then dive into the rest of the question.

謝謝你的提問。所以，是的，提醒大家，我們歷來討論過學習和商店流量，因為它與有機搜尋可見性有關。因此，我將在那裡提供更多的顏色，然後深入討論問題的其餘部分。

Our learn bucket is not as commercial and includes things like how much should I save for retirement. Our shop traffic is highly commercial and includes things like best mortgage rate comparison. So during our Q2 call, our search visibility was broadly stabilizing and actually starting to rebound a little bit. And then soon after our Q2 call, things took a turn for the worse. So with our shopping traffic, things got worse in August and September. But then going into October, rebounded back to a level that was a bit better even than where we were when we did the Q2 call. We think we did some things on our end to clean up the user experience that were a net positive.

我們的學習桶並不那麼商業化，包括諸如我應該為退休儲蓄多少錢之類的事情。我們的商店客流量高度商業化，包括最佳抵押貸款利率比較等內容。因此，在我們第二季的電話會議中，我們的搜尋可見度大致穩定，並且實際上開始略有反彈。在我們第二季電話會議後不久，情況就變得更糟了。因此，隨著我們的購物流量，八月和九月的情況變得更糟。但進入 10 月後，反彈至甚至比我們進行第二季電話會議時的水平還要好一些的水平。我們認為我們做了一些事情來改善用戶體驗，這些都是正面的。

Now there were some exceptions. So for example, parts of credit cards and personal loans are still lagging. But overall, we got a pretty good place or we got to a pretty good place on shopping pages and feel like we figured out what to improve.

現在有一些例外。例如，部分信用卡和個人貸款仍然滯後。但總的來說，我們得到了一個非常好的位置，或者說我們在購物頁面上得到了一個非常好的位置，並且感覺我們找到了需要改進的地方。

Conversely, for that far bigger bucket of education-oriented traffic that is less commercial in nature, things got progressively worse throughout the quarter and recently stabilized at a lower level. So what's happening there is a renewed push by search engines to incorporate their own answers directly into the search results, like you mentioned AI Overviews as an example.

相反，對於規模更大、商業性較少的以教育為導向的流量，整個季度情況逐漸惡化，最近穩定在較低水平。因此，搜尋引擎正在重新推動將自己的答案直接合併到搜尋結果中，就像您提到的人工智慧概述一樣。

So for those of you who have been following search over the years, this isn't really anything new. So for example, at one point, when you search for the weather, it didn't show up directly in the results. And eventually, a module was inserted there. That trend towards the simpler stuff being pulled into search results is inevitable, and we've always been more insulated from that.

因此，對於多年來一直關注搜尋的人來說，這並不是什麼新鮮事。例如，在某一時刻，當您搜尋天氣時，它並沒有直接顯示在結果中。最終，一個模組被插入其中。將更簡單的內容拉入搜尋結果的趨勢是不可避免的，而我們一直更能避免這種情況。

But historically, it happens in waves and sometimes haircuts our MUUs. So we've generally seen a re-baselining after any major changes and then eventual growth from there as you lap the impact. Oftentimes, those changes are rolled back. And so over the last 10 years, I'd say these changes come in waves, and we're in the middle of a big wave. And as long as we focus on delivering consumer value, we're steering in the right direction and things tend to sort themselves out.

但從歷史上看，這種情況會一波又一波地發生，有時甚至會削弱我們的 MUU。因此，我們通常會看到在任何重大變化之後都會重新設定基線，然後隨著影響的影響而最終增長。通常，這些變更會被回滾。所以在過去的十年裡，我想說這些變化是一波又一波的，我們正處於一個大浪潮的中間。只要我們專注於為消費者提供價值，我們就會朝著正確的方向前進，事情就會自行解決。

So this headwind is driving our outlook for further MUU deceleration in Q4 because of the full-quarter impact of some of the stuff that happened with those headwinds. Now, in the long run, I do think an improving search experience is a win for the overall ecosystem and keeps it healthy and growing. And really, I'd say the silver lining here is that Q3 was pretty brutal as far as some of the headwinds we faced in organic search, especially in highly commercial areas, and being able to hit like a 12% NGOI margin in Q3 in spite of that headwind is really a testament to some of the progress we've made in building a brand and a direct relationship with our users and our increasing competitiveness in other channels.

因此，這種逆風正在推動我們對第四季度 MUU 進一步減速的預期，因為這些逆風所發生的一些事情對整個季度都有影響。現在，從長遠來看，我確實認為改善搜尋體驗對於整個生態系統來說是一場勝利，並使其保持健康和發展。事實上，我想說這裡的一線希望是，就我們在有機搜尋中面臨的一些逆風而言，第三季度是相當殘酷的，特別是在高度商業化的領域，並且能夠在第三季度達到12 % 的NGOI 利潤率儘管如此，逆風確實證明了我們在建立品牌、與用戶建立直接關係以及我們在其他管道中日益增強的競爭力方面取得的一些進展。

And so to your question, I mean, I think NerdWallet is doing a really good job registering a lot more users over time, especially as people are shopping. And then we're doing a better job re-engaging them. That's a big area of focus in our third growth pillar, registration and data-driven engagement.

所以對於你的問題，我的意思是，我認為 NerdWallet 做得非常好，隨著時間的推移，註冊了更多的用戶，特別是當人們購物時。然後我們會更好地重新吸引他們。這是我們第三個成長支柱——註冊和數據驅動的參與——的一個重點領域。

And then also just -- I think Next Door Lending is a great example, of vertical integration as is Fundera. With those things, we naturally end up building deep reoccurring relationships with consumers over time. And we saw, for example, the renewals book of Fundera really shining this quarter in spite of a pretty tough loan origination market. So those are two of the growth pillars that we think will really help us continue to grow there.

然後，我認為 Next Door Lending 是垂直整合的一個很好的例子，就像 Fundera 一樣。有了這些東西，隨著時間的推移，我們自然會與消費者建立深厚的、反覆出現的關係。例如，我們看到，儘管貸款發放市場相當艱難，但 Fundera 的續約書在本季確實表現出色。因此，我們認為這兩個成長支柱將真正幫助我們繼續在那裡發展。

Appreciate that, Tim. I just wanted to follow up on some of the insurance strength. Obviously, really impressive growth. You sort of alluded to the fact that you're expecting that to persist into 4Q. Do you think that will persist in terms of at least into first half of '25 as well? I'm just trying to parse some of your commentary on some of the organic traffic and MUU deceleration, which is being more than offset by some of the insurance strength as well as some of the more interest rate-sensitive verticals.

很欣賞這一點，提姆。我只是想跟進一些保險實力。顯然，成長確實令人印象深刻。您提到您預計這種情況將持續到第四季度。您認為這種情況至少會持續到 25 年上半年嗎？我只是想解析一下你們對一些有機流量和 MUU 減速的評論，這些評論被一些保險實力以及一些對利率更敏感的垂直行業所抵消。

Short answer is yes. So what I'd say is our insurance revenue, right, up 10x year-over-year. And there was almost a binary impact of the insurance carriers being able to reset their pricing and return to profitability. So we're back on now, right?

簡短的回答是肯定的。所以我想說的是，我們的保險收入比去年同期成長了 10 倍。保險公司能夠重新定價並恢復獲利能力幾乎產生了雙重影響。所以我們現在又回來了，對嗎？

And there's, for sure, share gains happening and a super cycle happening at the same time. So I'll try to disaggregate that a little bit. In terms of the share gains, I compare us back to 1Q '21 right before that hard market. We're up 6 times there. We think we've really gained share due to product improvements. And that comes from better matching customers with the most relevant products.

毫無疑問，股票上漲和超級週期同時發生。所以我會嘗試稍微分解一下。就份額收益而言，我將我們與硬市場之前的 21 年第一季進行比較。我們在那裡上升了 6 倍。我們認為，由於產品改進，我們確實獲得了市場份額。這來自於更好地將客戶與最相關的產品相匹配。

And yes, we continue to see benefits from that roll in in Q3. It allows us to do, for example, paid marketing more profitably. In terms of the super cycle, there's a double tailwind and some puts and takes, right? So the double tailwind is as carriers finally get approval to raise those prices, they suddenly, one, want new customers again, but two, consumers are also re-shopping as they see premiums go up.

是的，我們繼續看到第三季帶來的好處。例如，它使我們能夠更有利地進行付費行銷。就超級週期而言，有雙重順風和一些看跌期權，對嗎？因此，雙重推動因素是，當營運商最終獲得提高價格的批准時，他們突然想要再次獲得新客戶，但第二，消費者在看到保費上漲時也會重新購物。

But the offsetting factor to consider is that the end market is growing, too. So as the rising actuarial risk from climate change, for example, is a huge tailwind on overall premiums, so premiums are up a lot since 2021, and we think that's more structural in nature.

但需要考慮的抵銷因素是終端市場也在成長。例如，由於氣候變遷導致的精算風險不斷上升，對整體保費產生巨大推動作用，因此自 2021 年以來保費上漲了很多，我們認為這本質上更具結構性。

And also lastly, I'd say, in terms of diversification, today, our insurance category is heavily weighted towards auto and heavily indexed towards the digital channel. So looking forward, we're investing and diversifying in things like human-assisted integrations in home and life as well as our insurance assist product NerdWallet+, where we monitor your policies and let you know when there's a better deal.

最後，我想說，就多元化而言，今天，我們的保險類別主要側重於汽車保險，並高度重視數位管道。因此，展望未來，我們正在對家庭和生活中的人工輔助整合以及我們的保險輔助產品 NerdWallet+ 等領域進行投資和多元化，我們可以在其中監控您的保單並在有更優惠的交易時通知您。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Justin Patterson from KeyBanc.

來自 KeyBanc 的賈斯汀·帕特森。

Great. Two, if I can. First, just on performance marketing. I know you've talked about it in the past, but could you talk a little bit about just some of the guardrails you have on there? How much of that's really incremental in nature versus responding to some of the traffic headwinds? And how do you plan on managing that going forward? And then secondly, I would love to hear more about just how some of the new products like NerdWallet+, NerdUp, and Nerd AI are resonating.

偉大的。兩個，如果可以的話。首先，就效果行銷而言。我知道您過去曾談論過這個問題，但是您能簡單談談您那裡的一些護欄嗎？與應對一些交通逆風相比，其中有多少本質上是真正增量的？您打算如何管理未來的狀況？其次，我很想了解更多有關 NerdWallet+、NerdUp 和 Nerd AI 等新產品如何引起共鳴的資訊。

Thanks, Justin. I'll cover the first one on performance marketing, and then Tim will take the question around new products. And so in terms of performance marketing, despite the recent challenges, we still see that over 70% of our traffic comes through organic or unpaid channels, and that's allowed us to reinvest in more acquisition channels like brand and performance marketing. I just want to reiterate and be incredibly clear, our approach on how we operate performance marketing hasn't changed. We do so in a disciplined way, aiming to be in-quarter profitable and adding incremental non-GAAP OI dollars.

謝謝，賈斯汀。我將討論第一個關於績效行銷的問題，然後提姆將回答有關新產品的問題。因此，在效果行銷方面，儘管最近面臨挑戰，我們仍然看到超過 70% 的流量來自有機或免費管道，這使我們能夠再投資於更多的獲取管道，例如品牌和效果行銷。我只是想重申並且非常明確的是，我們運作效果行銷的方法並沒有改變。我們以嚴格的方式做到這一點，目標是實現季度利潤並增加增量非 GAAP OI 美元。

And keep in mind that performance marketing is a variable expense from our perspective and will dial up or down depending on the returns. And we also view this as a means to an end as part of our registration and engagement initiatives. We see increased spend as a positive as performance marketing is a flexible lever to add incremental non-GAAP OI dollars, get more folks the opportunity to register, and to continue taking share.

請記住，從我們的角度來看，效果行銷是一項可變費用，會根據回報而增加或減少。我們也將其視為達到目的的一種手段，作為我們註冊和參與計劃的一部分。我們認為增加支出是正面的，因為績效行銷是增加增量非 GAAP OI 美元、讓更多人有機會註冊並繼續佔據份額的靈活槓桿。

Yes. And in terms of the newer products, like our third growth pillar is registration and data-driven engagement. So with products like NerdWallet+, NerdUp, and NerdWallet Advisors, it all really falls into that camp, right? We're trying to build deeper reoccurring relationships with our consumers and small businesses.

是的。就新產品而言，我們的第三個成長支柱是註冊和數據驅動的參與。那麼像 NerdWallet+、NerdUp 和 NerdWallet Advisors 這樣的產品，真的都屬於這個陣營，對吧？我們正在努力與消費者和小型企業建立更深層的經常性關係。

So I guess, broadly saying, I'd say it's pretty early days across the board, but the cohort data is looking positive. I mean people are engaging beyond that 5 times that we see on the typical registered user. And so we think that trend is good. It's really about continuing to iterate and improve on those products and drive more people into those experiences.

所以我想，總的來說，我認為現在還處於早期階段，但隊列數據看起來很積極。我的意思是，人們的參與度超出了我們在典型註冊用戶身上看到的 5 倍。所以我們認為這個趨勢是好的。這實際上是為了繼續迭代和改進這些產品，並推動更多的人獲得這些體驗。

Peter Christiansen from Citi.

花旗銀行的彼得‧克里斯蒂安森。

Thank you for the question here and best of luck to Lauren. It's been great working with you. If I look back to the, I think you called out 2021 as the previous cycle that you're seeing on the insurance side and the fact that you're indexed high to auto, which is typically like a 6-month renewal period, I think. Does that suggest -- can you talk to -- I'm sorry, outside of the auto sector, can you talk a little bit about the strength that you're seeing in non-auto and how much of a component that was to the surge in revenue that you saw this quarter?

感謝您在這裡提出問題，祝勞倫好運。和你一起工作真是太好了。如果我回顧一下，我認為您將 2021 年稱為您在保險方面看到的上一個週期，事實上您對汽車的索引很高，這通常類似於 6 個月的續保期，我思考。這是否意味著——你能談談嗎——對不起，在汽車行業之外，你能談談你在非汽車領域看到的實力，以及對汽車行業的影響有多大嗎？收入激增嗎？

For all intents and purposes, I'd say the strength came from auto. I mean it's the biggest end market by far for us. And yes, so I’d really index there. I mean I do think home is going to be a bit of a longer delay in recovery. I know there's more premiums working their -- increases working their way through the system there. And it's also just a smaller end market. We are investing there as well as in life and Medicare, but those are still relatively nascent for us.

出於所有意圖和目的，我想說力量來自汽車。我的意思是，這是我們迄今為止最大的終端市場。是的，所以我確實在那裡建立了索引。我的意思是，我確實認為回家的恢復時間會更長。我知道有更多的保費通過該系統發揮作用。這也只是一個較小的終端市場。我們正在投資那裡以及人壽和醫療保險，但這些對我們來說仍然相對新生。

That's helpful. And then as you think about strength in that particular vertical, did you see any noticeable contribution to your registered user growth in the quarter stemming from what you kind of saw in insurance as a call out there?

這很有幫助。然後，當您考慮該特定垂直領域的實力時，您是否看到本季度註冊用戶成長的任何明顯貢獻源於您在保險領域看到的呼籲？

So we're really focused on increasing the personalization around the insurance shopping experience. And so it naturally leads to registrations and getting to know more about the consumer. And so strength in growing our auto business does actually drive more registrations for us as well.

因此，我們真正專注於提高保險購物體驗的個人化。因此，它自然會導致註冊並更多地了解消費者。因此，我們汽車業務的發展實力實際上也為我們帶來了更多的註冊量。

And yes, the end game there -- I mean, clearly, the more we know about people, the more helpful we can be. And so we try to leverage that to breadcrumb our consumers into a deeper relationship with us just by being helpful where we can.

是的，最終的結果是——我的意思是，很明顯，我們對人了解得越多，我們就越能提供幫助。因此，我們試圖利用這一點，透過盡我們所能提供幫助，讓我們的消費者與我們建立更深的關係。

Yes, that totally makes sense. Clearly, an opportunity to cross-sell into other verticals there. And last one for me on the banking side. I know that you -- I think you've called out weakness in balance transfer for last couple of quarters. Just curious if you're still seeing that particular trend within banking and perhaps maybe that being a signal for the overall lending segment as well, just on a timing perspective. Just any views there.

是的，這完全有道理。顯然，這是一個交叉銷售到其他垂直領域的機會。最後一個是我在銀行方面的。我知道你——我認為你已經指出了過去幾個季度餘額轉移的弱點。只是好奇您是否仍然看到銀行業的這種特殊趨勢，也許這也是整個貸款領域的一個信號，只是從時間角度來看。只是那裡的任何意見。

So what I'd say there is, underwriting is still tight in pretty much all credit card categories. But yes, on the flip side, we're seeing more normal balance sheet appetite where issuers have gone from capping the amount of lending they want to take on to really opening up the taps when it comes to taking qualified borrowers, they'll take all we can give them. It's getting back in that direction. So that's a net positive macro backdrop.

所以我想說的是，幾乎所有信用卡類別的承保仍然緊張。但另一方面，我們看到資產負債表的胃口變得更加正常，發行人已經從限制他們想要承擔的貸款金額轉向真正開放水龍頭，當涉及到合格的借款人時，他們會接受我們能為他們提供的一切。它正在回到那個方向。所以這是一個淨積極的宏觀背景。

However, yes, like in our credit card business, there's still parts of it where organic search hasn't bounced back, and that's creating headwinds in terms of us being able to capitalize on that improving issuer backdrop. But yes, bigger picture, we think we've got a lot of room to grow there. We're still only single-digit market share in cards.

然而，是的，就像我們的信用卡業務一樣，仍有部分有機搜尋尚未反彈，這為我們利用不斷改善的發行人背景帶來了阻力。但是，是的，從更大的角度來看，我們認為我們在那裡有很大的成長空間。我們在卡片領域的市佔率仍然只有個位數。

And then I guess on the banking -- on the call it, the banking side, the depository accounts, our ability to forecast trajectory of banking is admittedly a bit weaker given we haven't been through this type of interest rate cycle before. And just a quick context reminder, the Fed funds rate target increased by about 450 bps between March of 2022 and March of 2023, which drove a lot of deposit shopping. And the rate hikes ended in the first quarter of 2023.

然後我想在銀行業方面——銀行業方面，存款帳戶，我們預測銀行業軌蹟的能力無疑有點弱，因為我們以前沒有經歷過這種類型的利率週期。簡單提醒一下，2022 年 3 月至 2023 年 3 月期間，聯邦基金利率目標提高了約 450 個基點，這推動了大量存款購買。加息於 2023 年第一季結束。

So not too surprising, we're seeing year-over-year declines there as consumers have a little less interest in searching for savings accounts. So our revenue was down 26% year-over-year in the third quarter, and it's just a tougher comp going into a declining rate environment.

因此，我們看到同比下降並不奇怪，因為消費者對尋找儲蓄帳戶的興趣有所減弱。因此，我們第三季的營收年減了 26%，而且在利率下降的環境下，我們的業績變得更加艱難。

For us, the big question is how much re-shopping are consumers going to do on the way down as your savings rate gets less competitive? Do you pick your head up and look around for a new savings account? If so, things could turn out better than we anticipate. We think big picture, though, if rates stay above 0, we'd expect to see a higher new normal in banking. And to highlight this point, Q3 remains about 3x higher than in 4Q '21 before the rate hike started. So essentially, any non-zero rate means deposits are valuable to banks, and it also provides incentive for consumers to comparison shop.

對我們來說，最大的問題是，隨著儲蓄率競爭力下降，消費者在下降過程中會進行多少次購物？您是否抬起頭四處尋找新的儲蓄帳戶？如果是這樣，事情的結果可能會比我們預期的更好。不過，我們認為，從大局來看，如果利率維持在 0 以上，我們預期銀行業將出現更高的新常態。為了強調這一點，第三季仍比升息開始前的 21 年第四季高出約 3 倍。因此，從本質上講，任何非零利率都意味著存款對銀行來說很有價值，而且還激勵消費者進行比較。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Ralph Schackart from William Blair.

威廉布萊爾的拉爾夫沙卡特。

In the prepared remarks, you talked about seeing some issuers return within the credit card segment. Just kind of curious if you could provide some more color on that. Was that something that occurred in Q3 and extended to where we are today? Just anything you could provide in terms of more detail on that? And then I have a follow-up.

在準備好的發言中，您談到看到一些發卡機構重返信用卡領域。只是有點好奇你是否可以提供更多的顏色。這是第三季發生的事情並延續到了我們今天的情況嗎？能提供更多詳細資訊嗎？然後我有一個後續行動。

Yes. So I guess what we were seeing in prior quarters, sometimes issuers were walking away from qualified borrowers. Our read on that was that they may have been a little bit conservative with managing their balance sheet in terms of coming post SVB, right, and just maybe a bit of a weaker capital markets environment. So we think a lot of that has reversed course and it is starting to look a little more normal.

是的。所以我想我們在前幾個季度所看到的情況是，有時發行人會放棄合格的借款人。我們對此的解讀是，在矽谷銀行之後，他們在管理資產負債表方面可能有點保守，對吧，而且資本市場環境可能有點疲軟。所以我們認為很多事情已經扭轉了方向，開始看起來變得更正常了。

Great. And then maybe one for Lauren. Last quarter, I think for Q3 with a lot of the uncertainty that you saw with organic traffic, you talked about a higher level of conservatism implied in the guide for Q3. Just curious in terms of Q4, what level of conservatism did you apply there? Was it sort of the same as Q3? Has-- that sort of stance changed? Just any color you could add on that would be great.

偉大的。然後也許是給勞倫的。上個季度，我認為對於第三季度，您在自然流量方面看到了很多不確定性，您談到了第三季度指南中隱含的更高水平的保守主義。只是好奇第四個問題，你在那裡應用了何種程度的保守主義？跟Q3有點一樣嗎？這種立場有改變嗎？只要添加任何顏色就可以了。

Yes. Maybe I'll take the opportunity to talk a little bit more about the revenue guide in total, and then I'll address your specific question about conservatism as part of that. So just as a reminder, the Q4 revenue guide was $164 million to $172 million, which at the midpoint would be a 26% year-over-year growth rate, but down 12% quarter-over-quarter.

是的。也許我會藉此機會更多地討論總體收入指南，然後我將回答您關於保守主義的具體問題。提醒一下，第四季的營收指引為 1.64 億美元至 1.72 億美元，中間值年成長率為 26%，但環比下降 12%。

And some additional context from Q3 to Q4, we tend to see a low double-digit decline due to seasonality in areas such as credit cards, student loans and mortgages. Our guidance for Q4 assumes normal seasonality for the business overall as well as most of our verticals. But we expect slightly worse than seasonal Q3 to Q4 in credit cards as a result of a full quarter of the commercial search traffic pressure, but a better than seasonal Q4 in insurance as we see success in scaling and taking share.

從第三季到第四季的一些其他背景，由於信用卡、學生貸款和抵押貸款等領域的季節性因素，我們往往會看到兩位數的低點下降。我們對第四季度的指導假設整個業務以及我們的大多數垂直行業都具有正常的季節性。但由於整個季度的商業搜尋流量壓力，我們預計信用卡業務將比季節性第三季至第四季略差，但保險業務將比季節性第四季好，因為我們看到在擴展和占有份額方面取得了成功。

So we've been pleased that we've been able to continue to drive revenue growth despite some of these organic search traffic challenges. We do not expect to see any major impact from rate decreases in the short term, but we are confident in our readiness to take advantage of a lower rate environment should rates come down. And so I would say that our conservatism is the same in terms of our assumptions around Q3 and Q4 and the impact of the organic search trends being offset by some of the strength that we've talked about in insurance.

因此，我們很高興儘管面臨一些自然搜尋流量挑戰，但我們仍能夠繼續推動收入成長。我們預計短期內降息不會產生任何重大影響，但我們相信，如果利率下降，我們已準備好利用較低的利率環境。因此，我想說，就我們對第三季和第四季的假設而言，我們的保守主義是相同的，有機搜尋趨勢的影響被我們在保險領域討論的一些優勢所抵消。

This does conclude the question-and-answer session of today's program. I'd like to hand the program back to management for any further remarks.

今天節目的問答環節到此結束。我想將該程序交還給管理層以徵求進一步的意見。

We did get a last-minute question just popped up in the queue. And our final question then for today comes from the line of Jed Kelly from Oppenheimer.

我們確實在最後一刻收到了一個剛剛出現在隊列中的問題。今天我們的最後一個問題來自奧本海默的傑德凱利。

Just two questions. One on insurance and scaling the performance marketing. Can you talk about how your performance marketing benefits as you start to deliver more volume to carriers? And then just around mortgages, can you talk about the strategy of leaning more into a brokerage versus partnering with a variety of lenders that might give you a little more breadth in terms of lending partnerships?

只有兩個問題。一篇關於保險和擴大績效行銷。您能否談談當您開始向運營商提供更多銷售時，您的效果行銷將如何受益？然後，就抵押貸款而言，您能否談談更多地依靠經紀業務而不是與各種貸方合作的策略，這些貸方可能會給您帶來更廣泛的貸款合作夥伴關係？

Sure. Why don't I take the first one on performance marketing scaling and insurance? And then Tim, you can talk a little bit more about the acquisition and mortgage. So as we've talked about, our approach to performance marketing has not changed. We'll continue to do it in a disciplined way. And our goal is to be in-quarter profitable, adding incremental non-GAAP OI dollars. And so that applies to all of our verticals, especially in areas where we see incredibly fast-paced growth, and we see a robust end market. And so you'll expect us to continue to lean in where we see good returns.

當然。為什麼我不選擇第一個關於績效行銷規模和保險的問題？然後提姆，你可以多談談收購和抵押貸款的問題。正如我們所討論的，我們的效果行銷方法並沒有改變。我們將繼續以有紀律的方式來做這件事。我們的目標是實現季度盈利，增加非 GAAP OI 美元。因此，這適用於我們所有的垂直領域，特別是在我們看到令人難以置信的快速成長的領域，並且我們看到了強勁的終端市場。因此，您會期望我們繼續向我們看到良好回報的領域傾斜。

And if we're not seeing those returns, we can very quickly and easily pull back as well. But we also -- I'll just remind everyone again, see performance marketing as a way to get more folks registered and then reengage with them over time as we continue to expand and develop our growth pillar around registration and data-driven reengagement.

如果我們沒有看到這些回報，我們也可以非常快速、輕鬆地撤回。但我們也——我再次提醒大家，將效果行銷視為一種讓更多人註冊並隨著時間的推移重新與他們互動的方式，因為我們將繼續圍繞註冊和數據驅動的重新參與來擴展和發展我們的成長支柱。

I'd probably just tack on two thoughts there. Yes, clearly, personalization is helpful. When we know more about the audience, we can better match them with people who are well -- or carriers who are well suited to serve that. And then the second thing is insurance is a growing area for us, and our insurance carrier partners are quite quantitative, right?

我可能只想補充兩個想法。是的，顯然，個人化是有幫助的。當我們更多地了解受眾時，我們可以更好地將他們與能力良好的人或非常適合為其提供服務的運營商相匹配。第二件事是保險對我們來說是一個不斷成長的領域，我們的保險公司合作夥伴是相當定量的，對嗎？

So as they look at the quality of referrals that are coming through, that can have a positive feedback loop over time on saying like, hey, NerdWallet has customers who really understand the insurance product, who really understand why we're the best carrier for them, and that can create a positive feedback loop as well.

因此，當他們查看建議的品質時，隨著時間的推移，可以產生積極的反饋循環，例如，嘿，NerdWallet 的客戶真正了解保險產品，真正了解為什麼我們是最好的承運人。可以創造一個正向的回饋循環。

On the mortgage brokering side, we really try to provide choice there on the brokered experience. You get access to a lot of wholesale lenders there when you work through a broker, and that can be really helpful in terms of shopping around on rates. Like if my mom called me and told me she needed a mortgage, I tell her to call Doug and Jonathon.

在抵押貸款經紀方面，我們確實嘗試在經紀體驗方面提供選擇。當您透過經紀人工作時，您可以接觸到許多批發貸款機構，這對於貨比三家利率非常有幫助。就像如果我媽媽打電話告訴我她需要抵押貸款，我會讓她打電話給道格和喬納森。

I mean, during our diligence process, we found that they have great rates and great customer service. So letting NDL shop around for you amongst a bunch of lenders is, I think, a really great option whether you're buying or refinancing.

我的意思是，在我們的盡職調查過程中，我們發現他們的價格很高，客戶服務也很棒。因此，我認為，無論您是購買還是再融資，讓 NDL 在眾多貸方中為您貨比三家都是一個非常好的選擇。

Thank you. This does conclude the question-and-answer session. I'd now like to hand the program back to management for any further remarks.

謝謝。問答環節到此結束。我現在想將該程序交還給管理層以徵求進一步的意見。

Thanks all for your questions. Our results this quarter speak not only to NerdWallet's diversification and durability, but also to the Nerds’ resilience. After a tough decision coming out of Q2, I'm incredibly proud of the way our team has risen to the occasion. The Nerds have remained committed to relentlessly improving our business on behalf of consumers, partners and shareholders. Thank you, Nerds.

感謝大家的提問。我們本季的業績不僅證明了 NerdWallet 的多元化和耐用性，還證明了 Nerds 的韌性。在第二季做出艱難決定後，我對我們團隊應對這項挑戰的方式感到非常自豪。書呆子們仍然致力於代表消費者、合作夥伴和股東不懈地改善我們的業務。謝謝你們，書呆子們。

With that, we'll see you next quarter.

就這樣，我們下個季度再見。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect. Good day.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們參加今天的會議。這確實結束了該程式。您現在可以斷開連線。再會。