NET Power Inc. (NPWR) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to Net Power Inc. fourth-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Bryce Mendes, Director of Investor Relations. Thank you. Please go ahead.

各位好，歡迎參加 Net Power Inc. 2025 年第四季財報電話會議。(接線員指示) 提醒各位，本次會議將被錄音。現在我很榮幸介紹本次會議主持人：投資人關係總監 Bryce Mendes。謝謝。請開始。

Thank you. Good morning everyone, and welcome to Net Power's fourth-quarter and full-year 2025 earnings conference call. With me on the call today, we have our Chief Executive Officer, Danny Rice; and our President and Chief Operating Officer, Marc Horstman.

謝謝。各位早安，歡迎參加 Net Power 2025 年第四季及全年財報電話會議。今天與我一同出席的有我們的執行長 Danny Rice，以及總裁兼營運長 Marc Horstman。

Yesterday, we issued our earnings release for the fourth-quarter and full-year ended December 31, 2025, along with an updated investor presentation. Both are available on our Investor Relations website at ir.netpower.com.

昨天，我們發布了截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日止之第四季及全年財報新聞稿，並同步更新投資人簡報。兩者皆可於我們的投資人關係網站 ir.netpower.com 取得。

During today's call, our remarks will include forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from those stated or implied by forward-looking statements due to risks and uncertainties associated with our business, which are discussed in our SEC filings. We assume no obligation to update any forward-looking statements.

在今天的電話會議中，我們的發言將包含前瞻性陳述。由於與本公司業務相關之風險與不確定性（已於我們向 SEC 提交的文件中討論），實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述所述或所暗示者有重大差異。我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述之義務。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Danny Rice, Net Power's Chief Executive Officer.

接下來，我將把電話交給 Net Power 執行長 Danny Rice。

Thanks, Bryce, and thanks, everyone, for joining us this morning. Marc and I are glad to be here and we have quite a bit of ground to cover. So I'd ask you to pull up the investor presentation and follow along as we walk through it. After our prepared remarks, we'll open the line for questions.

謝謝你，Bryce，也謝謝各位今天早上加入我們。Marc 和我很高興在此，今天要談的內容相當多。因此我想請各位打開投資人簡報，並在我們逐頁說明時一同跟進。在我們的準備發言結束後，將開放提問。

So let's start on slide 3, and I want to set the stage with a bit of framing before we get into the specifics. When we look at the executive summary on slide 3, what you're seeing is a company that made a decisive strategic call at the end of last year and is now executing against it. We pivoted away from oxy-combustion as our primary near-term commercial vehicle, and we did so deliberately. Oxy combustion is a remarkable technology, and we're preserving that work carefully.

那我們從第 3 頁開始，在進入細節之前，我想先做一些背景鋪陳。當我們看第 3 頁的執行摘要時，你會看到一家在去年年底做出果斷策略決策、並且正在落實執行的公司。我們將富氧燃燒（oxy-combustion）從近期主要商業化載體中轉移，這是我們深思熟慮後的選擇。富氧燃燒是一項卓越的技術，而我們也會謹慎地保留並延續這方面的成果。

Meanwhile, there's a pathway to the same destination. Natural gas power with greater than 90% carbon capture that can be executed with equipment that exists today on a timeline that matches the urgency of the market. That path is a combined cycle gas turbine paired with post-combustion carbon capture, GT plus PCC. Proven turbines, proven solvent-based capture technology, and with the right partner, Entropy, the integration of these two proven systems into a single bankable project is now within reach.

同時，也存在一條通往相同目的地的路徑。也就是以現有設備在符合市場緊迫性的時程內，實現碳捕集率超過 90% 的天然氣發電。這條路徑是：聯合循環燃氣渦輪機搭配燃燒後碳捕集（post-combustion carbon capture），也就是 GT 加 PCC。採用經驗證的渦輪機、經驗證的溶劑式捕集技術，並在合適的合作夥伴 Entropy 協助下，把這兩套成熟系統整合成一個可融資（bankable）的專案，如今已觸手可及。

So this is not a retreat from our mission. Net Power's mission has always been to transform natural gas into the lowest cost form of clean, firm power. That mission is unchanged. What changed is we found a more direct route to get there and the intellectual honesty required by us to take it.

因此，這不是對我們使命的退卻。Net Power 的使命一直是把天然氣轉化為成本最低的潔淨、可調度（firm）電力形式。這個使命沒有改變。改變的是：我們找到一條更直接的路徑抵達目標，而我們也以必要的理性與誠實做出轉向。

Now let me turn to slide 4, which covers the macro backdrop because I think this context is essential to understanding why we believe the timing of this decision is exactly right. We're in the early innings of what may be the most significant buildup of power generation infrastructure in American history.

接著請看第 4 頁，這一頁談的是宏觀背景；我認為這個脈絡對理解我們為何相信此決策的時點恰到好處至關重要。我們正處於可能是美國史上最重要的發電基礎設施擴建潮的早期階段。

AI data centers are the proximate cause, but it's bigger than that. You have AI-driven hyperscale compute demand. You have industrial re-onshoring. You have electrification of transportation and industry. All of this converging simultaneously on a grid that hasn't added meaningful baseload capacity in decades.

AI 資料中心是最直接的原因，但影響不止於此。你有 AI 驅動的超大規模（hyperscale）運算需求。你有製造業回流本土。你有交通與工業的電氣化。所有這些同時匯聚到一個數十年來幾乎未新增有意義基載容量的電網之上。

In ERCOT, the Texas grid, it's ground zero for this collision. The load growth being projected in West Texas alone over the next 5 to 10 years is staggering. It's not a theoretical forecast. You can see it in the permitting activity, in the interconnection cues, and in the conversations we're having. And what every one of those conversations comes back to is the same thing: speed and reliability.

在 ERCOT（德州電網）中，這場碰撞正發生在最前線。僅西德州在未來 5 到 10 年預估的負載成長就令人震撼。這不是理論上的預測。你可以從許可申請活動、併網排隊（interconnection queues），以及我們正在進行的對話中看見。而每一場對話最後都回到同一件事：速度與可靠性。

Power buyers are not sitting around waiting for the perfect clean solution, they are racing to secure any electrons they can trust to show up 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. What we're seeing is a pragmatic reordering of priorities. Environmental idealism hasn't gone away, but it's being subordinated to an immediate physical reality.

購電方並不是坐等完美的潔淨解決方案；他們正競相確保任何他們信得過、能夠一年 365 天、每週 7 天、每天 24 小時供應的電力。我們看到的是一種務實的優先順序重排。環境理想主義並未消失，但它正被眼前的物理現實所讓位。

You cannot run a hyperscale data center on intermittent power. You cannot build a $10 billion compute campus and hope the wind is blowing or that new nuclear can be built at a price never achieved before, and certainly not in this hyperinflationary cost environment for new infrastructure.

你無法用間歇性電力來運行超大規模資料中心。你也無法投資 100 億美元打造運算園區，卻寄望於風剛好在吹，或寄望於新核能能以過去從未達成的成本建成——尤其是在新基礎設施成本高度通膨的環境下更不可能。

But natural gas is different. The US has among the lowest cost natural gas reserves on Earth, 50 plus years of supply in proven basins from Appalachia to West Texas. The honest question is whether we can advance technology that reduces the environmental impact of natural gas combustion, because natural gas is what we have and is what we need right now. That's where we live.

但天然氣不同。美國擁有全球成本最低的天然氣儲量之一，從阿帕拉契亞到西德州的已證實盆地，供應可達 50 年以上。真正的問題是：我們能否推進技術以降低天然氣燃燒對環境的影響，因為天然氣是我們現有的資源，也是我們此刻所需要的。這就是我們所處的位置。

And if there was any doubt about how central domestic oil and natural gas are to this country's economic security and physical safety, the last three months have been about as clear a reminder as you could ask for. We just came through one of the harshest winters on record. The US kept the lights on without missing a beat, not because of solar, not because of wind, but because we have an abundant, reliable supply of natural gas in the generation infrastructure to dispatch it on demand.

如果還有人懷疑國內石油與天然氣對這個國家的經濟安全與實體安全有多核心，過去三個月已經提供了再清楚不過的提醒。我們剛經歷了有紀錄以來最嚴酷的冬季之一。美國電力供應全程穩定，並不是因為太陽能，也不是因為風能，而是因為我們擁有充足且可靠的天然氣供應，以及能在需要時隨時調度的發電基礎設施。

At the same time, we are actively engaged militarily and diplomatically to ensure that global oil supply chains remain in reliable hands, because the world does run on oil, and the US understands the consequences of that supply falling under the control of adversarial actors. These are not abstract geopolitical concerns. They are a direct expression of how important domestically produced fossil fuels remain to our national security and economic prosperity.

同時，我們也在軍事與外交層面積極投入，以確保全球石油供應鏈掌握在可靠的手中，因為世界確實依賴石油運轉，而美國也理解一旦供應落入敵對勢力控制之下會帶來的後果。這些並非抽象的地緣政治憂慮。它們直接反映出：國內生產的化石燃料對我們的國家安全與經濟繁榮仍然至關重要。

And they reinforce, in the starkest possible terms, why the answer to our energy challenge is not to wish away natural gas or oil, but to figure out how to produce more of it domestically and use it more responsibly and more cleanly. That is what we are doing.

而這也以最鮮明的方式再次強化：我們能源挑戰的答案不是一廂情願地否定天然氣或石油，而是要想辦法在國內生產更多，並以更負責、更潔淨的方式使用它。這正是我們正在做的事。

The good news is that the policy environment is beginning to confirm this view. The 45Q tax credit now provides parity between CO2 sequestration and CO2 utilization for enhanced oil recovery, and that's significant for us. EOR, or enhanced oil recovery, is the process by which captured CO2 is injected into oil formations to recover additional oil.

好消息是，政策環境正開始印證這個觀點。45Q 稅額抵免如今在 CO2 封存與將 CO2 用於提高採收率（EOR）之間提供了同等對待，這對我們而言意義重大。EOR（提高採收率）是將捕集到的 CO2 注入油藏地層，以回收更多原油的過程。

Beyond the incremental production benefit, the CO2 stays underground permanently, so you get a direct economic credit for the carbon capture. It supports domestic oil production and US energy security, and it enables a meaningful reduction in the cost of clean power. In West Texas, where we have both the Permian Basin's vast oil formations and abundant low cost gas, EOR is what makes the economics of our first project genuinely compelling. It's not a workaround; it's an integral part of the value chain.

除了增量產量的效益之外，CO2 也會永久留在地下，因此你能就碳捕集取得直接的經濟性抵免。它支持國內石油生產與美國能源安全，並能實質降低潔淨電力的成本。在西德州，我們同時擁有二疊紀盆地（Permian Basin）龐大的油藏地層與充足的低成本天然氣，EOR 正是讓我們第一個專案的經濟性真正具吸引力的關鍵。這不是權宜之計；它是價值鏈中不可或缺的一部分。

The bottom line in the macro is this the need for clean, firm baseload power has never been greater. The policy support for CCS has never been stronger, and the geography we're developing in West Texas is exactly where low-growth and energy resources are converging the fastest. We believe Net Power is in the right place with the right solution at the right time.

從宏觀角度來看，結論是：對於潔淨、穩定的基載電力之需求，從未如此迫切。對於 CCS 的政策支持也從未如此強勁，而我們在西德州所開發的地理位置，正是低成長與能源資源最快速匯聚之處。我們相信 Net Power 在對的時間、以對的解決方案、處於對的位置。

So with that, let me turn it over to Marc to walk you through what we've been building.

那麼，接下來我把時間交給 Marc，帶各位了解我們正在打造的內容。

Thanks, Danny. Good morning, everyone. I'm going to take you through the business progress across three areas: the status of our product development, where we stand on project permit, and how our commercial pipeline is developing. So let's start with slide 5.

謝謝你，Danny。各位早安。我將從三個面向帶各位了解我們的業務進展：產品開發的狀態、專案許可的進度，以及我們的商業管線如何發展。我們先從第 5 頁投影片開始。

The foundation of everything we're building is the integrated clean power product. Two Siemens SGT-A3 gas turbines prepackaged by Relevant Power Solutions, paired with Entropy's post-combustion capture system designed for greater than 90% CO2 capture. Our integrated clean power product represents something the market hasn't seen before: a fully pre-engineered power plant that combines a natural gas combined cycle with post-combustion carbon capture into a single standardized design.

我們所打造的一切，其基礎是整合式潔淨電力產品。兩台由 Relevant Power Solutions 預先封裝的西門子 SGT-A3 燃氣渦輪機，搭配 Entropy 的燃燒後捕集系統，設計目標為超過 90% 的 CO2 捕集率。我們的整合式潔淨電力產品代表市場前所未見的方案：一座完全預先工程化的電廠，將天然氣複循環與燃燒後碳捕集整合為單一標準化設計。

By working directly with Entropy, WSP, and our OEM partners to deliver modular pre-engineered components, we will have systematically reduced the execution risk that has historically plagued first-of-a-kind projects. The plant is entirely air cooled, eliminating water dependency, which dramatically expands the addressable geography and significantly relaxes a traditional siting constraint.

透過與 Entropy、WSP 以及我們的 OEM 合作夥伴直接合作，交付模組化的預先工程化組件，我們將系統性地降低過去首座示範（first-of-a-kind）專案長期以來所面臨的執行風險。該電廠採全空冷設計，消除對用水的依賴，這將大幅擴大可部署的地理範圍，並顯著放寬傳統選址限制。

Because our product is built on commercially proven technology configured to a repeatable standard, we enter Project Permian with high confidence in performance, reliability, and availability. And with each deployment our design matures, our procurement leverage grows, and our cost curve improves. We're not building one plant; we're building a product.

由於我們的產品建立在商業上已驗證的技術之上，並以可重複的標準進行配置，我們以高度信心進入 Permian 專案，確信其性能、可靠性與可用率。且隨著每一次部署，我們的設計會更加成熟、採購議價能力提升、成本曲線也會改善。我們不是在建一座電廠；我們是在打造一項產品。

This is the product that will be deployed at our first project called Project Permian in West Texas. We passed our conceptual design review, CDR, and we're now working with WSP Engineering to advance the detailed design. Major equipment packages are progressing as well. We have the two modular gas turbine packages on order.

這項產品將部署於我們在西德州的首個專案——Permian 專案。我們已通過概念設計審查（CDR），目前正與 WSP Engineering 合作推進詳細設計。主要設備套件也在同步推進。兩套模組化燃氣渦輪機套件已下單。

Delivery is targeted for early 2028, and we're working through the commercial selection and structure of our EPC. The product design CDR milestone is a meaningful de-risking event because it confirms that the integrated system can be engineered to specification and that our cost assumptions are grounded in real engineering, not just estimates.

交付目標為 2028 年初，我們也正在推進 EPC 的商業遴選與合約架構設計。產品設計 CDR 里程碑是一個重要的去風險事件，因為它確認整合系統可依規格完成工程設計，且我們的成本假設是建立在真實工程基礎上，而不僅是估算。

On the Entropy partnership, this is a critical work stream. Entropy is a global leader in solvent-based post-combustion carbon capture. Their technology has been deployed commercially in Canada at their Glacier facility, and we expect the Glacier phase two commissioning this summer to provide real-world validation data for the performance assumptions underlying our clean power product.

關於與 Entropy 的合作夥伴關係，這是一條關鍵工作主線。Entropy 是以溶劑為基礎之燃燒後碳捕集領域的全球領導者。其技術已在加拿大 Glacier 設施完成商業部署，我們預期今年夏天 Glacier 二期的試運轉將提供實際運行的驗證數據，用以驗證支撐我們潔淨電力產品之性能假設。

We are in the final stages of completing our joint development agreement with Entropy. We expect to finalize definitive agreements in Q2. Upon signing, Net Power will make a strategic equity investment in Entropy, and we will structure a joint venture for Project Permian with Entropy co-investor. Securing Entropy as an equity partner, not just a technology licenser, is an important structural element of how we design this partnership because it aligns their incentives and performance directly with ours.

我們正處於完成與 Entropy 共同開發協議的最後階段。我們預期在第二季敲定具約束力的最終協議。簽署後，Net Power 將對 Entropy 進行策略性股權投資，並將與 Entropy（作為共同投資人）為 Permian 專案設立合資架構。確保 Entropy 成為股權合作夥伴，而不僅是技術授權方，是我們設計此合作關係的重要結構性要素，因為這能使其誘因與績效與我們直接對齊。

I also want to spend a moment on product economics because this is an area where I think the market may still be underappreciating what we put together. When you benchmark our integrated GT plus PCC solution in West Texas against every other clean, firm power alternative nuclear, geothermal, solar plus storage, our product is cost competitive across a wide range of capital cost and gas price assumptions. That's not a promotional statement; it's the output of rigorous independent benchmarking we've done.

我也想花點時間談談產品經濟性，因為我認為市場可能仍低估了我們所組合出的方案。當你在西德州將我們的整合式「燃氣渦輪機（GT）+ 燃燒後碳捕集（PCC）」方案，與其他所有潔淨且穩定的電力替代方案——核能、地熱、太陽能加儲能——進行對標比較時，在廣泛的資本成本與天然氣價格假設下，我們的產品具備成本競爭力。這不是宣傳說法；而是我們所做嚴謹、獨立對標分析的結果。

With West Texas gas prices and utilizing the 45Q EOR credit pathway, this plant is in range that makes sense for power buyers and delivers returns that makes sense for equity investors. That's a combination that frankly, we weren't sure we'd be able to demonstrate when we started this process. We're much more confident in it now.

在西德州的天然氣價格條件下，並採用 45Q 的 EOR 抵減路徑，該電廠的經濟性落在一個對電力買方合理、也能為股權投資人帶來合理報酬的區間。坦白說，當我們啟動這個流程時，並不確定能否證明這樣的組合。但現在我們對此更有信心。

On that note, I want to flag an important upgrade to the plant design that occurred through the fourth quarter. When we last spoke with you in November, the plant was configured for approximately 60 megawatts of net electrical output. Through our design efforts and product engineering with Entropy, we restructured the configuration and now approximately have 80 megawatts of net electrical output, a roughly 33% increase in generation capacity from the same site footprint and roughly the same capital envelope.

在此我也要提示一項在第四季期間完成的電廠設計重要升級。我們上次在 11 月與各位交流時，電廠配置約為 60 兆瓦的淨發電輸出。透過我們與 Entropy 的設計工作與產品工程，我們重新調整了配置，現在淨發電輸出約為 80 兆瓦；在相同場址占地、且資本支出規模大致相當的情況下，發電能力提升約 33%。

Equally important, the redesign also reduced performance risk on the carbon capture site. We now have higher confidence in the capture rate assumptions underlying the project economics. That's a meaningful step forward on both the revenue side and the risk profile of the project.

同樣重要的是，這次重新設計也降低了碳捕集端的性能風險。我們對支撐專案經濟性的捕集率假設，現在更有信心。這在收入面與專案風險輪廓兩方面，都是一大進展。

Turning to slide 6 and path to our financial investment decision. Our FID target is the second half of 2026 with a targeted commercial operations date of early 2029. If we hit that date, Project Permian will be the first commercial natural gas plus CCUS project in the United States. That's a milestone that the industry and our customers will notice.

接著看第 6 頁投影片，以及通往財務投資決策的路徑。我們的 FID 目標為 2026 年下半年，商轉（COD）目標為 2029 年初。若能達成該時程，Permian 專案將成為美國首個商業化的「天然氣 + CCUS」專案。這將是一個產業與客戶都會注意到的里程碑。

To get to FID, there are four major work streams running in parallel right now. First, product and project engineering. We need to advance the detailed design to a point where we can execute our EPC contract and provide lenders with an independent engineer report they can stand behind.

為了達成 FID，目前有四條主要工作主線正同步推進。第一，產品與專案工程。我們需要將詳細設計推進到可執行 EPC 合約的程度，並能向放款人提供其可採信的獨立工程師報告。

Second, long lead equipment commitments. There are line items that require commitments well before FID in order to protect the COD timeline. We're targeting approximately $50 million in pre-FID long lead commitments by midyear, and we'll be coming back to update you on that as the year progresses.

第二，長交期設備承諾。為了確保 COD 時程，有些項目必須在 FID 之前就先行承諾。我們目標在年中前完成約 5,000 萬美元的 FID 前長交期承諾，並將隨著年度推進回來向各位更新。

Third, project financing. We are in the process of selecting a financial advisor to run the project finance process, and we have engaged with prospective lenders and co-equity investors. The project economics are strong, and we believe Project Permian is financeable. The project is designed to meet the return thresholds required by institutional infrastructure investors.

第三，專案融資。我們正在遴選財務顧問以主導專案融資流程，並已與潛在放款人及共同股權投資人展開接洽。專案經濟性強勁，我們相信 Permian 專案具備可融資性。該專案的設計可滿足機構型基礎建設投資人所要求的報酬門檻。

Fourth, offtake, which I'll cover in the next slide. And it is important to note site control is in place. We have an executed ground lease with Oxy. Grid interconnection is progressing with Oncor with a targeted interconnection date of 4Q 2028. The basic project infrastructure is established.

第四，承購（offtake），我會在下一頁投影片說明。同時也要強調，場址控制已到位。我們已與 Oxy 簽署地面租賃合約。與 Oncor 的電網併網正在推進，目標併網時間為 2028 年第四季。專案的基本基礎設施已建立。

Turning to slide 7, the commercial picture, securing uptake is the most important thing we'll do this year. Let me give you a sense of where we stand. Our most advanced discussion is with Oxy, our site landlord and a natural commercial partner. Oxy takes the CO2 uptake for enhanced oil recovery. That's the core of the EOR economics Danny described, and we are in active negotiation on the power purchase structure as well.

接著看第 7 頁投影片，從商業面來看，確保承購量是我們今年最重要的工作。我先讓各位了解我們目前的進度。我們最深入的討論對象是 Oxy——我們的場址出租方，也是天然的商業合作夥伴。Oxy 將承接用於提高採收率（EOR）的 CO2 用量。這是 Danny 所描述之 EOR 經濟性的核心，我們也正在就購電架構進行積極談判。

Beyond Oxy, we have a growing pipeline of prospective off-take relationships across industrial, utility, and data center verticals. There are discussions progressing with a hyper scale data center developer in West Texas for a potential behind the meter arrangement that could be significantly larger than Permian phase one.

除 Oxy 之外，我們在工業、公用事業與資料中心等垂直領域，正建立並擴大潛在承購關係的管線。我們也正與一家具超大規模（hyperscale）的西德州資料中心開發商推進討論，探討可能的表後（behind-the-meter）安排，其規模可能顯著大於 Permian 一期。

On the order of 300 megawatts, the breadth of this pipeline validates the thesis that our market for clean, firm, dispatchable power is real and growing. The conversations we're having today are categorically different from the conversations we're having even a year ago. Customers are not asking us whether they need clean baseload power; they're asking us how fast we can deliver it.

約300 兆瓦的規模，這條管線的廣度驗證了我們的論點：市場對於潔淨、穩定、可調度電力的需求是真實且正在成長。我們今天進行的對話，與甚至一年前的對話在本質上截然不同。客戶不再問我們是否需要潔淨的基載電力；他們問的是我們能多快交付。

Our goal for this year is to have a signed uptake agreement or MOU at pricing at or above $100 per megawatt hour, which is the level that supports project bankability and delivers returns we believe are appropriate for the risk profile of a first-of-a-kind project. We're working hard to get there and we expect to be able to share more on this front in coming quarters.

我們今年的目標，是以每兆瓦時至少 100 美元（或更高）的價格，簽署一份已簽訂的承購協議或 MOU（合作備忘錄）；這個價格水準足以支撐專案具備可融資性，並帶來我們認為與首創型專案風險輪廓相稱的報酬。我們正全力以赴達成目標，並預期在未來幾個季度能在這方面分享更多進展。

Before I head it back to Danny, I want to make one more point that I think is important context for how we've been thinking about the longer-term value of this site. Permian phase one is an 80-megawatt project, but this is not an 80-megawatt site. This location, with its land, its gas access, its CO2 offtake infrastructure with Oxy, and its interconnection, has the capacity to support a much larger power complex.

在我把話題交回 Danny 之前，我想再補充一點，我認為這是理解我們如何看待此場址長期價值的重要背景。二疊紀（Permian）第一期是一個 80 兆瓦的專案，但這不是一個只有 80 兆瓦容量的場址。這個地點具備土地、天然氣接入、與 Oxy 的 CO2 承購基礎設施，以及併網條件，足以支撐更大型的發電園區。

We believe this single site can scale to approximately 800 megawatts as we replicate and expand the plant configuration. That means the infrastructure we're building, the relationships we're establishing, and the operational knowledge we're accumulating with Permian phase one are not just the foundation for one project, they're the foundation for what could become one of the largest clean, firm power campuses in the country. That scale potential is a meaningful part of how prospective customers and co-investors are evaluating this opportunity, and Danny will say more about it.

我們相信，透過複製並擴展電廠配置，這個單一場址可擴展至約 800 兆瓦。這意味著我們正在建置的基礎設施、正在建立的合作關係，以及透過二疊紀第一期累積的營運知識，不僅是單一專案的基礎，更可能成為全國最大規模之一的潔淨、穩定電力園區的基石。這種可擴張的潛力，是潛在客戶與共同投資人評估此機會時的重要考量之一，Danny 也會進一步說明。

I'll hand it back to Danny.

我把話交回 Danny。

Thanks, Marc. So I want to cover two things before we open for questions. First is our financial position, and second is how we're thinking about the financing of Project Permian. And then we'll close with a few broader thoughts.

謝謝，Marc。在我們開放提問之前，我想先談兩件事。第一是我們的財務狀況，第二是我們如何思考二疊紀專案（Project Permian）的融資。最後我們會以幾點更宏觀的想法作結。

So we ended the fourth quarter with approximately $379 million in cash, cash equivalents and investments, which came in above our internal targets for the quarter. I think that really reflects the discipline of capital management through the transition.

我們在第四季結束時，現金、約當現金與投資合計約 3.79 億美元，高於我們對該季度的內部目標。我認為這確實反映了我們在轉型期間對資本管理的紀律。

We wound down work streams that were no longer core. We right sized our cost structure and we kept our powder dry. So we have the financial runway to execute the Permian phase one FID process deliberately, and that matters when you're making a first-of-its-kind investment decision.

我們逐步收斂不再屬於核心的工作流。我們調整成本結構至合適規模，並保留彈藥。因此，我們具備充足的財務跑道，能夠審慎推進二疊紀第一期的 FID（最終投資決策）流程；在做出首創型投資決策時，這一點很重要。

On project financing, I want to give investors a clear picture of how we're thinking about this because it's an important dimension of the Project Permian story. There are essentially three ways to fund a project like this. The first is a 100% equity, which is we and our co-investors write the full check, no external debt, simple, but it's very capital intensive.

在專案融資方面，我想讓投資人清楚了解我們的思考方式，因為這是二疊紀專案故事的重要面向。基本上，像這樣的專案有三種資金來源。第一種是 100% 股權出資，也就是我們與共同投資人全額出資、不使用外部負債；做法簡單，但資本占用非常高。

The second option is equipment financing. A meaningful portion of this plant's components, particularly the power island, the gas turbines, the HRSG, the steam turbine, the electric equipment, these are proven, commercially marketable assets that lenders understand well.

第二種選項是設備融資。本電廠相當一部分的組件，特別是動力島（power island）、燃氣渦輪機、HRSG（餘熱回收蒸汽發生器）、蒸汽渦輪機與電氣設備，都是經驗證、可商業交易的資產，放款機構也非常熟悉。

You can finance against them much like you'd finance a fleet of industrial equipment without requiring a full project finance structure. That gets the equity requirement down to roughly $0.75 to $0.80. Better, but we think we can do better still.

你可以用它們作為融資標的，類似於為一批工業設備車隊融資，而不必建立完整的專案融資架構。這可將股權需求降至約 0.75 到 0.80。這已經更好，但我們認為還能更進一步。

The third path is full project financing, non-recourse debt secured against the project's long-term contracted cash flows, and that's really what we're pursuing. And if done right, project financing gets the equity requirement down to roughly $0.25 to $0.35. The difference in capital efficiency between option one, 100% equity finance, and option three, the project finance, is enormous. And it's the difference between Project Permian phase one being a use of our balance sheet and being the launch of a capital-efficient, scalable platform.

第三條路徑是完整的專案融資：以專案長期合約現金流作為擔保的無追索權負債，而這正是我們正在追求的方向。若執行得當，專案融資可將股權需求降至約 0.25 到 0.35。選項一（100% 股權融資）與選項三（專案融資）在資本效率上的差異非常巨大。這也決定了二疊紀第一期究竟是消耗我們資產負債表的專案，還是啟動一個資本效率高、可擴張的平台。

Now I'll be direct about where the work is. Post-combustion carbon capture at this scale on a US natural gas power project is new. PCC, it's a bit like the Loch Ness Monster. Everyone's heard about it, but project finance lenders haven't seen it operating in the wild in the US power sector before.

我會直接說明工作難點在哪裡。在美國天然氣發電專案上，以這樣的規模導入燃燒後碳捕集（post-combustion carbon capture）是新的。PCC 有點像尼斯湖水怪。大家都聽過，但專案融資放款機構以前沒有在美國電力產業的實際運轉環境中看過它。

Entropy has been doing this commercially in Canada for years, so the technology itself is not speculative, but getting infrastructure lenders fully comfortable with PCC performance assumptions requires education. It requires data, and it requires some handholding. So that's part of the work ahead of us, and it's precisely why the Glacier 2, phase two commissioning that Entropy is doing this summer matters so much. Real operating data from a live commercial plant accelerates that conversation dramatically.

Entropy 多年來已在加拿大進行商業化運作，因此技術本身並非投機；但要讓基礎設施放款機構對 PCC 的性能假設完全放心，需要教育。需要數據，也需要一些手把手的引導。這是我們接下來要做的一部分工作，也正是 Entropy 今年夏天進行 Glacier 2 第二期試運轉（commissioning）如此重要的原因。來自正在運轉的商業電廠的真實營運數據，能大幅加速這些對話。

The other piece that unlocks project financing is strong offtake. Credit worthy, long-term power purchase agreements are what give lenders the cashless certainty to underwrite the debt, which is why, as Marc said, signing offtake is our single highest priority for the year.

另一個能解鎖專案融資的關鍵，是強勁的承購（offtake）。具信用、長期的購電協議（PPA）能為放款機構提供足夠的現金流確定性以承作負債；因此，如 Marc 所說，簽下承購是我們今年唯一最高優先事項。

And Marc's point about scale is really worth reinforcing because it directly informs the financing strategy. When a prospective lender or equity partner looks at Project Permian phase one as the anchor of a 500- to 800-megawatt campus, they're not just evaluating a small first-of-its-kind project, they're evaluating the first chapter of a major clean power platform in the fastest growing power market in the US.

而 Marc 關於規模的觀點也非常值得再次強調，因為它會直接影響融資策略。當潛在放款機構或股權夥伴把二疊紀第一期視為一個 500 到 800 兆瓦園區的基石時，他們評估的不只是小型的首創型專案，而是在評估美國成長最快的電力市場中，一個重大潔淨電力平台的第一章。

That framing changes the risk/reward conversation meaningfully. Every major data center developer we speak to is thinking in terms of gigawatts, not megawatts. The fact that we have a site that can grow into that demand, with established infrastructure and a proven operational model, is genuinely differentiating.

這樣的框架會在風險／報酬的討論上帶來實質改變。我們接觸的每一家大型資料中心開發商，思考的單位都是 GW（吉瓦），而不是 MW（兆瓦）。我們擁有一個可隨需求成長的場址，且具備既有基礎設施與已驗證的營運模式，確實具有差異化優勢。

So to close, the mission is clear, the strategy is decided, and the execution is underway. This year's milestones, the Entropy JDA, long lead appointment commitments, signed offtake, and project financing are what stands between us and FID. We're working every one of those work streams with urgency. We look forward to updating you on our progress in the quarters ahead.

最後總結：使命清晰、策略已定、執行正在推進。今年的里程碑——Entropy JDA、長交期項目（long lead）任命承諾、已簽承購，以及專案融資——就是我們與 FID 之間的關鍵差距。我們正以緊迫感推進每一條工作流。我們期待在接下來的季度向各位更新進展。

But with that, let's open the line for questions. Turning it over to the operator.

那麼，現在我們開放電話線路進行提問。交給接線員。

(Operator Instructions) Martin Malloy, Johnson Rice.

(接線員指示) Martin Malloy，Johnson Rice。

Just on the pricing on the offtake, I think you mentioned $100 a megawatt hour. Can you maybe give us some perspective for out in that area, what the competitive landscape looks like?

關於承購的定價，我想你提到每兆瓦時 100 美元。你能否就那個區間提供一些觀點，競爭格局大概是什麼樣子？

Hey, Marty. It's Danny. Good to hear from you. Yeah. I think -- I mean, it's really interesting. If you look at just what's transpired over the course of the last few years, we've certainly seen prices start to move up, not just on the merchant side of ERCOT. I think, if you go back a couple of years or shoot, you go back 12 months and you look at what's the forward curve suggesting power prices in ERCOT are going to be, if you went back last year or the year before last and you looked at the strip for '28, '29, 2030, that forward curve was at $40 to $45 per megawatt hour.

嗨，Marty。我是 Danny。很高興聽到你的聲音。是的。我想——我的意思是，這真的很有意思。如果你看過去幾年發生的事情，我們確實看到價格開始上移，不只是 ERCOT 的現貨（merchant）端。我想，如果你回到幾年前，或者說，你回到 12 個月前，看看遠期曲線對 ERCOT 電價的暗示；如果你回到去年或前年去看 2028、2029、2030 年的那段遠期曲線，當時大約是每兆瓦時 40 到 45 美元。

And if you look at that curve with where it is now, you're talking about $65 to $70. And this is just merchant unabated -- this is just power from the grid, so you've seen almost an 80% increase in just wholesale power prices in West Texas towards the end of this decade, which is when this plant's going to come online. So that's like what's actually there on the commercial merchant side.

而如果你看那條曲線以目前的位置來看，你談的是每兆瓦時 65 到 70 美元。而這只是純商業的 merchant（不受抑制）—這只是來自電網的電力，所以你已經看到在本十年末期、西德州的批發電價幾乎上漲了 80%，也就是這座電廠將要上線的時間點。所以這就像是在商業 merchant 端實際存在的情況。

I think where things are really interesting if you're looking at where power prices are for new contracted capacity for firm delivery, which means potential co-located, and ignoring the clean piece, we're hearing chatter of those conversations north of $100 per megawatt hour if you're trying to get new capacity on before the end of this decade. I think that really reflects the importance of reliability of speed, and I think equally important of the scale piece.

我認為真正有意思的是，如果你看的是為了「穩定交付」而簽約的新合約容量的電價（這意味著可能是共址），先不談潔淨那一塊，我們聽到的市場風聲是：如果你想在本十年結束前把新容量上線，相關對話的價格會在每兆瓦時 100 美元以上。我認為這確實反映了「可靠性」與「速度」的重要性，而同樣重要的還有「規模」這一塊。

I think what we haven't seen in the market is what are people willing to pay if it's fast, if it's scalable, if it's reliable, and it's lower carbon intensity. That's a market that just hasn't yet been established and I think we're going to be the first solution out there that establishes what that market is.

我認為我們在市場上還沒看到的是：如果它夠快、可擴展、可靠，而且碳強度更低，人們願意付多少錢。那是一個尚未被建立起來的市場，而我認為我們將會是第一個在外部推出、並界定那個市場是什麼的解決方案。

I think the really compelling piece for us is compared to where we were at on the oxy-combustion and you needed a power price well north of $130 to $150 per megawatt hour to be able to make the math pencil out, that's not a price point we need before this clean gas solution with Entropy. So I'll just say, like, I think we're going to be in that ZIP code where it's a compelling price for the counterparty and it's a compelling price for us that pencils out on project economics, both on the equity side but also on being able to support project finance on the debt side.

對我們來說真正很有吸引力的一點是，相較於我們先前在富氧燃燒（oxy-combustion）方案上的位置，當時你需要遠高於每兆瓦時 130 到 150 美元的電價，才能讓數字算得過去；但在與 Entropy 的這個潔淨天然氣解決方案下，我們不需要那樣的價格水準。所以我想說的是，我認為我們會落在那個「區間」：對交易對手而言是有吸引力的價格，對我們而言也同樣有吸引力，並且在專案經濟性上算得過去—不僅是股權端，也包括能夠支撐專案融資的債務端。

Okay. That's helpful. And then for my follow-up question, just want to ask about the potential for government support on the financing side. Anything to maybe mention there regarding the DOE?

好的。這很有幫助。那我追問一下，只是想問在融資面向上，政府支持的可能性如何。有沒有什麼可以提到、關於 DOE（美國能源部）的？

Yeah. I mean, I won't get into any of the specifics, but I think, if you look at what this administration is really pushing for and what they're really encouraging, it's really shoring up domestic energy supply. And that goes across the board. That's not just for fossil; it's for anything, from rare earth metals. But certainly as you look at just oil and gas and the importance that they both play in terms of just national energy security, those two are at the top of the list.

有。我的意思是，我不會談任何細節，但我認為，如果你看這個政府目前真正推動、也真正鼓勵的方向，就是強化國內能源供應。而這是全面性的。不只是化石能源；也包括任何東西，從稀土金屬等。但當然，當你看石油與天然氣，以及它們在國家能源安全上的重要性時，這兩項都排在最前面。

And so if you look at solutions that align with this administration, solutions that can utilize domestic energy supply, unlock new domestic energy supply, help firm up the grid, help bring down grid prices from where they're trending, and can do so in a responsible way for the environment, that's ultimately something that this administration is highly supportive of. And I think everybody on the call would agree with that.

因此，如果你看那些與本屆政府方向一致的解決方案—能夠利用國內能源供應、解鎖新的國內能源供應、協助強化電網、協助把電網價格從目前的趨勢拉下來，並且能以對環境負責的方式做到—那最終就是本屆政府高度支持的事情。我想在電話會議上的每個人都會同意這一點。

The interesting thing about this solution where we're using domestic natural gas, super low-cost natural gas to firm up the grid in a really, really scalable way that enables both the AI build out that is an existential threat if we don't win, while at the same time boosting domestic oil production, there's very few solutions -- actually there's zero solutions in the world that are trying to do that right now.

這個解決方案有趣的地方在於：我們使用國內天然氣、極低成本的天然氣，以非常、非常可擴展的方式來強化電網，這不僅能支撐 AI 的建置擴張—如果我們贏不了，那將是攸關存亡的威脅—同時也能提升國內原油產量；能同時做到這些的解決方案非常少—其實世界上目前沒有任何解決方案正在嘗試這麼做。

We are trying to do that right now because we think it's the right thing for the country. We think it's the right thing for consumers, and we think it's the right thing for the shareholders. And so this solution really does align with this administration.

我們現在正嘗試這麼做，因為我們認為這對國家是正確的事。我們認為這對消費者是正確的事，也認為這對股東是正確的事。因此，這個解決方案確實與本屆政府的方向一致。

And so certainly that does become something that, I would say, the government's not just potentially supportive of on a verbal piece, but I think potentially on a financial piece. Whether it's grants, whether it's loans, it's going to be a pathway that we pursue because this is probably one of the few solutions that fully aligns in a very comprehensive way across all of the energy solutions that this administration wants to see succeed.

所以當然，這就成為一件事：我會說政府不只是口頭上可能支持，我認為在財務層面也可能支持。不論是補助金（grants），或是貸款（loans），這都會是我們會去追求的路徑，因為這大概是少數能以非常全面的方式，橫跨本屆政府希望成功的各種能源解決方案、並且完全對齊的方案之一。

Wade Suki, Capital One.

Wade Suki，Capital One。

Just real quickly on the -- just to expand a little bit on, Marty's question on Project Permian, could you give us an updated sense for project cost, total project costs there?

很快問一下—就稍微延伸 Marty 對 Project Permian 的問題，你們能否更新一下那個專案成本、也就是總專案成本的概況？

Yeah. We can give you some like rough numbers on what we're seeing right now. Wait, I'll turn it over to Marc to give you some of his approach to it.

可以。我們可以給你一些我們目前看到的大概數字。等等，我把問題交給 Marc，讓他談談他的看法。

Yeah. Wade, hi. Marc Horstman. So just a little bit of background in the last couple of months, we've gone from, call it, the conceptual -- to the conceptual design of the product and as we continue to work with Entropy, we've worked with an EPC and then also major OEM vendors, to really spec out and understand the overall plant design.

好。Wade，你好。我是 Marc Horstman。先補充一點背景：過去幾個月，我們已經從概念階段—到產品的概念設計；隨著我們持續與 Entropy 合作，我們也與一家 EPC（工程、採購與施工承包商）以及主要 OEM 供應商合作，來真正把規格定出來並理解整體電廠設計。

So as we -- as you know, there's a lot of many, many factors that go into play relative to the TIC itself and then also relative to the, call it, the competitiveness of the LCOE. Right now, we're sitting in -- and we, just as I stated, passed through the conceptual design phase, we're sitting from a range of, call it, the upper 400s to the lower -- or to the upper 500s. So call it $475 to $575 is what we're looking for as a range, and that range supports, obviously, the economics that we talked about in the presentation today.

所以如你所知，關於 TIC（總安裝成本）本身，以及關於 LCOE（平準化發電成本）的競爭力，都有非常非常多因素會影響。目前我們處於—如我剛才所說，已經通過概念設計階段—我們目前的區間大概在 4 億多美元的高端到 5 億多美元的低端—或到 5 億多美元的高端。所以大概是 4.75 億到 5.75 億美元這個區間；而這個區間顯然支撐了我們今天簡報中談到的經濟性。

I think it's worthwhile noting, as we advance through the design ahead of FID, this will allow us to achieve that pre-engineered project, which will give us a, call it, a firmer view on cost as we move forward. I can tell you that as we look at our overall design and our product solution, the risk around that product solution, at least the risks that are that are out of our control is, as Danny has mentioned around the AI race and around the speed to power, those risks around OEM pricing and what that does or what it doesn't do is something that we're going to be looking at closely.

我認為值得注意的是，隨著我們在 FID（最終投資決策）之前推進設計，這將使我們能達到「預先工程化」的專案狀態，讓我們在往前推進時，對成本有更穩固的掌握。我可以告訴你，當我們看整體設計與產品解決方案時，圍繞該產品解決方案的風險—至少是那些不在我們控制範圍內的風險—如 Danny 提到的 AI 競賽以及「電力上線速度」（speed to power）；而 OEM 定價的風險，以及它會造成或不會造成什麼影響，是我們會密切關注的事情。

As we stated, we're in a pretty good position right now because we've secured the gas turbines and the gas turbine packages. And we look to begin to secure some of the other long lead equipment this summer even in advance of FID.

如我們所說，我們目前處於相當有利的位置，因為我們已經確保了燃氣渦輪機以及燃氣渦輪機套件。而我們也計畫在今年夏天、甚至在 FID 之前，就開始確保其他一些長交期設備。

Yeah and to add a little bit to that, on the CapEx piece -- the CapEx is a little bit higher than what we were projecting before. I think some of that is inflationary in nature where I think people are expecting. I think some of it is design changes.

對，再補充一點，在資本支出（CapEx）方面—CapEx 比我們先前預估的稍微高一些。我認為其中一部分是通膨性質的，這也是大家所預期的。我認為其中一部分則是設計變更。

Marc talked about us being able to boost the capacity of the facility from 60 megawatts to 80 megawatts. So there's CapEx associated with that, but all of that at the end of the day was -- is really intended to really drive down the LCOE. So I think when we look at things on an LCOE basis, they're still in that same range.

Marc 提到我們能把設施容量從 60 兆瓦提升到 80 兆瓦。所以這會帶來相應的 CapEx，但歸根結底，這一切的目的都是要真正把 LCOE 壓低。所以我認為，當我們以 LCOE 的角度來看，仍然是在同一個區間。

I think what's really helpful to understand is how does CapEx of the facility translate into equity needs of the project because I think at the end of the day, that's where the rubber really meets the road is what is our equity share of the capital spend going to be? And so if you're in that call like $550 million range and you're able to do -- we're able to get this thing fully contracted on the PPA side, on the offtake, we should be in a really good position to be able to secure project financing, which would be around 65% of the total capital spend.

我認為真正有助於理解的是，設施的資本支出（CapEx）如何轉化為專案的股權需求，因為我認為歸根結底，真正關鍵在於：我們在資本支出中的股權出資比例會是多少？因此，如果你是在大約5.5億美元的區間，而且我們能夠——我們能夠在PPA端、在承購（offtake）端把這件事做到完全簽約，那麼我們就會處於非常有利的位置，能夠取得專案融資，約為總資本支出的65%。

So that's around $350 million of debt. And so then that leaves an equity plug of $200 million and that's a $200 million equity check that would be, assuming Entropy and Brookfield participate alongside us for their equity share of the project, we would be at around $100 million, $105 million for our equity share of that first project. And we certainly have the capital on the balance sheet to be able to fund that. So we're sitting in a pretty good, position, but again, it requires those two things to come into place: the PPA and, certainly, securing the project financing as we get through this year.

所以那大約是3.5億美元的債務。那麼接下來就剩下2億美元的股權缺口（equity plug），而這2億美元的股權支票將會是——假設Entropy和Brookfield按其在專案中的股權比例與我們一同出資——我們在第一個專案中的股權份額大約會是1億到1.05億美元。而我們的資產負債表上確實有足夠的資本可以為此提供資金。所以我們目前處於相當不錯的位置，但再次強調，這需要兩件事到位：PPA，以及當我們在今年推進時，當然還包括確保取得專案融資。

The second question, I might have missed it in the presentation, just -- I always ask you about the commercial pipeline. I might have missed it, but is there any update on the MISO project or even beyond MISO? Or are you just focused on Project Permian for now?

第二個問題，我可能在簡報中漏看了——我只是——我總是會問你們商業管線的情況。我可能漏掉了，但MISO專案或甚至MISO以外有任何更新嗎？還是你們目前只專注在Permian專案？

Yeah. I think we really have the horse blinders on a little bit on West Texas in general, with a specific focus on the first project. On that one site that, I think, when you look at the slide, it's -- the first phase of that is this 80 megawatt project that Marc described in pretty good detail. But as you can see on that slide, that's a site that can accommodate 800 megawatts. So that's a pretty sizable block for clean firm power. So that area is the focus right now.

是的。我認為我們在整體西德州上確實有點戴上了馬眼罩，並且特別聚焦在第一個專案。在那個單一場址上，我想當你看那張投影片時——第一階段就是Marc相當詳細描述的這個80兆瓦專案。但如你在那張投影片上所見，那個場址可容納800兆瓦。所以那是一個相當可觀的潔淨穩定電力（clean firm power）區塊。因此目前的重點就在那個區域。

I think when you look at just the economics and where we can generate the lowest cost clean firm power, that is ground zero for it, certainly, more so than MISO. We still have optionality around that MISO site. I think everybody saw -- we disclosed -- we pulled out of the MISO queue late last year because of just rising costs of what the interconnect was going to be. It just didn't make sense for us to put that capital into MISO when we continue to see such great opportunities to reallocate that those money to West Texas.

我認為，當你只看經濟性以及我們能在哪裡產生最低成本的潔淨穩定電力時，那裡就是核心地帶，當然比MISO更是如此。我們在那個MISO場址仍保有選擇權。我想大家都看到——我們已揭露——我們在去年年底退出了MISO佇列，因為互連成本持續上升。當我們持續看到把資金重新配置到西德州有這麼好的機會時，把資本投入MISO的互連就不合理了。

So the focus, really, for the foreseeable future is going to be on the West Texas opportunity. I would say, a lot of it is economic driven and, I would say, like the other part is it's just opportunity driven. The opportunities that we're going to see in West Texas that we're seeing right now are worthy of us spending as much of our time there as possible.

所以在可預見的未來，重點確實會放在西德州的機會上。我會說，其中很大一部分是由經濟性驅動的，而另一部分則是由機會本身驅動。我們在西德州將會看到、而且現在正在看到的機會，值得我們盡可能把時間投入在那裡。

Noel Parks, Tuohy Brothers.

Noel Parks，Tuohy Brothers。

One thing I was, interested in was -- just to the degree you've been talking with these different potential customers around the outtake, I'm just wondering if you could kind of characterize the part you're talking with around why they're particularly interested in the Net Power solution as opposed to the handful of other, often, also gas related tech generation options they might have?

有一件我感興趣的是——就你們一直在和不同潛在客戶談承購（outtake）的程度而言，我想知道你們是否可以大致描述一下，你們談到的那一方為什麼特別對Net Power的解決方案感興趣，而不是他們可能有的少數其他——而且通常也與天然氣相關的——發電技術選項？

Yeah. Hey, Noel. It's Danny. I'll take a first crack at that, and Marc can certainly fill in all the holes. I think the reality of just the situation that we have at hand today is -- and maybe it's worth stepping back and just reviewing what's transpired over the last three to four years. Three to four years ago, I think the world and certainly, the broader tech community was thinking, we don't need new natural gas power generation.

是的。嗨，Noel。我是Danny。我先嘗試回答，Marc當然可以補上所有遺漏之處。我認為我們今天面臨的現實情況是——也許值得退一步回顧一下過去三到四年發生了什麼。三到四年前，我認為世界、尤其是更廣泛的科技社群在想：我們不需要新的天然氣發電。

We'll be able to go to nuclear. We'll be able to go to renewables. We're going to have battery storage. We don't need to build new natural gas power generation. We'll eventually be able to find a way to decarbonize without it.

我們可以轉向核能。我們可以轉向再生能源。我們會有電池儲能。我們不需要建新的天然氣發電。我們最終會找到一種方式在沒有它的情況下實現去碳化。

I think our -- and I think Net Power's singular mission has always been the best way to decarbonize is actually to just to capture the CO2; not to try to move away from natural gas, but continue to lean into natural gas and just, with new technologies, find ways to capture it, just given how low cost natural gas power generation is. So that that mission has always been there.

我認為我們——而且我認為Net Power一貫的單一使命一直是：最好的去碳化方式其實就是捕捉CO2；不是試圖遠離天然氣，而是繼續倚重天然氣，並且透過新技術找到捕捉的方法，因為天然氣發電的成本非常低。所以那個使命一直都在。

I think the thing that's really interesting now is you fast forward to where we are today, and I think everybody's just accepted that there's no way we're going to be able to meet this load growth without new natural gas power generation.

我認為現在真正有趣的是，你快轉到今天的位置，我想大家都已經接受：沒有新的天然氣發電，我們不可能滿足這樣的負載成長。

So it is a little bit of a conflict in a way of -- we don't -- there's this, maybe, some reluctancy to be able to use natural gas, but they need to embrace it, otherwise, they're not going to win. They're not going to be able to build the data centers. They're not going to win the AI race. They're not going to be relevant because somebody else will do it.

所以在某種程度上確實有點衝突——我們不——可能存在某種對使用天然氣的猶豫，但他們必須擁抱它，否則他們就不會贏。他們將無法建資料中心。他們將無法贏得AI競賽。他們將不再具有相關性，因為會有其他人去做。

And so I think everybody has fully embraced natural gas for what it is, which is the most reliable, most scalable, most affordable form of energy for power generation in history. And so everybody sees natural gas as the foundation of being able to win the AI race, to be able to meet the low growth that we're seeing across the entire electricity system.

因此我認為大家已完全接受天然氣的本質：它是史上最可靠、最可擴展、最可負擔的發電能源形式。所以大家都把天然氣視為能夠贏得AI競賽的基礎，也能夠滿足我們在整個電力系統中看到的負載成長。

And so how do you do that in a way while still not totally conceding your environmental goals? You need to find ways to be able to introduce new technologies that decarbonize. And I think it is quite remarkable. Well, I think there is this absolute focus on speed to power that that is absolutely paramount. I think that the opportunity that we see is, can we introduce carbonizing natural gas solutions that don't compromise on speed to power, to a certain extent, don't compromise on affordability of the power, while still giving them the reliability that they come to expect from natural gas power generation.

那麼，你要如何在不完全放棄環境目標的情況下做到這一點？你需要找到能導入新技術以實現去碳化的方法。而我認為這相當值得注意。我想大家對「快速供電（speed to power）」有著絕對的聚焦，這是至關重要的。我認為我們看到的機會是：我們能否導入不會在快速供電上妥協、在某種程度上不會在電力可負擔性上妥協，同時仍提供他們從天然氣發電所期待的可靠性的去碳化天然氣解決方案。

So those three key characteristics is what Marc and the team have been designing around. It's the speed piece. It's the reliability piece, and it's the certainty of capture. And that's certainly one of the reasons why we've partnered up with the Entropy folks is they're really the only proven PCC solution that's been out in the wild for the last few years. And they have great experience there. They understand how to do it.

所以Marc和團隊設計時圍繞的就是這三個關鍵特性。是速度。是可靠性，以及捕捉的確定性。而這當然也是我們與Entropy團隊合作的原因之一：他們基本上是過去幾年在實際環境中唯一被證實的PCC解決方案。而且他們在那方面有很好的經驗。他們知道怎麼做。

And when you pair that up with the availability of gas turbines, which they are available, and I think we've demonstrated that because we've secured a handful so far for the first project, all of a sudden, you're in a place where we can deliver the same sort of speed that you'd come to expect from anybody else that was going to build an unabated gas power plant. So I think the proposition is fairly straightforward.

當你再把它與燃氣渦輪機的可取得性結合起來——它們是可取得的——而且我認為我們已經證明了這點，因為我們迄今已為第一個專案取得了幾台——你突然就會來到一個位置：我們可以交付與任何其他要建未減排（unabated）燃氣電廠的人所能期待的同等速度。所以我認為這個價值主張相當直接。

You can have the speed to power. You can have the reliability of the power on the same timeline you would from an unabated gas power plant. But now, you can do it with 90% carbon capture, which essentially means 90% lower emissions than you would get from the unabated version.

你可以兼具快速供電能力。你也可以在與未加裝碳捕集的燃氣電廠相同的時程下，獲得同等的供電可靠性。但現在，你可以在90%碳捕集的情況下做到，這基本上意味著相較於未加裝版本，排放量可降低90%。

So I think there's going to be places where you won't be able to do the capture, which is most of the United States, but shoot, when you're in a place like West Texas where we are and we have a strategic partnership with Oxy, who has been a leader in CO2 sequestration for the last couple decades and needs as much CO2 as they can possibly get their hands on for EOR, it creates a pretty compelling setup where this isn't just a pathway to do a single project, a one-off project. It really is the project that becomes the cornerstone of many gigawatts of potential clean gas power that we can install in West Texas over the next five to seven years.

所以我認為有些地方你無法進行捕集——美國大多數地區都是如此——但老天，在像我們所在的西德州這樣的地方，我們與Oxy建立了策略合作夥伴關係；Oxy在過去幾十年一直是CO2封存的領導者，且為了EOR（提高採收率）需要盡可能取得大量CO2，這就形成了一個相當有吸引力的配置：這不僅僅是一條做單一專案、一次性專案的路徑。它確實是一個專案，將成為未來五到七年內我們能在西德州部署多個GW級潛在潔淨燃氣發電的基石。

So the speed piece, the scale piece, the reliability piece, all of it's there. You just get the added benefit of the clean piece that I think everybody at the end of the day is trying to figure out how are we going to do that, knowing that we're going to have to build a lot of natural gas power generation over the next decade.

所以速度、規模、可靠性，這些要素都具備了。你只是額外獲得了「潔淨」這一項好處；我想大家到頭來都在思考要如何做到這點，因為我們知道未來十年必須建設大量天然氣發電。

And what you were assessing this now sort of brings to mind something I have heard, some of the other alternative that generation technology vendors talk about. And that's -- that regarding contract terms with, for example, data center hyperscaler customers, they're saying that issues of timeliness, of course, are top of mind. Issues of price, there's so much urgency that it's -- not that that's totally on the backburner but certainly it's the urgency surge does seem to be swamping price to some degree.

而你現在所評估的內容，讓我想到我聽過一些其他替代發電技術供應商談到的事情。也就是——關於與例如資料中心超大規模（hyperscaler）客戶的合約條款，他們說時程問題當然是最優先考量。至於價格問題，因為需求非常急迫——並不是說價格完全被擱置，但確實看起來這波急迫性在某種程度上壓過了價格。

But one wrinkle I've heard a company talk about is that as far as agreement duration that they are seeing some focus on -- in the event that a behind the meter project for a power project for a data center. In the event that an interconnection becomes available, say, five years down the road, that they -- the customers are giving a lot of thought to what would that look like, the opportunity to connect to the grid.

但我聽到某家公司提到的一個變數是：就協議期限而言，他們看到一些焦點在——如果是表後（behind the meter）的資料中心供電專案。如果在例如五年後有了併網（interconnection）機會——他們的客戶正在非常認真地思考那會是什麼樣子，也就是連接到電網的機會。

With the technology that they have, of course, the stability and interruptibility issues that gas addresses will still be very much a high priority. But that there is possibly a transition point ahead looking out to that horizon. So I just wondered if that's something that had had come up in your discussions.

以他們的技術而言，天然氣所解決的穩定性與可中斷性（interruptibility）問題仍會是非常高的優先事項。但在展望那個時間點時，前方可能存在一個轉換點。所以我想問，這是否也曾在你們的討論中出現過。

Yeah. You're talking about the transition from behind the meter or fully islanded to eventually being grid connected, right?

是的。你指的是從表後或完全孤島式（fully islanded）運行，最終轉為併網，對嗎？

Yeah. The option emerging of -- they've been in the queue for half a decade and finally, it's within sight that the interconnect may be possible. And they're just thinking about how to -- how and to what degree to integrate into the grid then.

對。這個選項正在浮現——他們在排隊等候併網已經半個十年，終於看得到併網可能性了。他們正在思考屆時要如何、以及在多大程度上與電網整合。

Yeah. I think it's fairly widely known that the reliability that a lot of these large compute campuses need, like the reliabilities need to be extremely high. You're talking about whether it's 3.9 or 5.9s reliability, that's something you can typically get from the grid, which is why the grid becomes an ideal place to want to get your power from.

是的。我想大家都相當清楚，許多大型運算園區所需要的可靠性必須非常高。你說的是3.9或5.9個9的可靠性；這通常可以從電網取得，這也是為什麼電網會成為理想的取電來源。

I think a lot of these behind the meter solutions, if you're designing it right, you can achieve the same sort of 3.9s or 5.9s reliability. You certainly cannot do it with like a single large frame gas turbine or two large frame gas turbines. You won't be able to get there. You really need to fill in all the holes.

我認為許多表後解決方案，只要設計得當，也能達到同樣的3.9或5.9個9的可靠性。但你當然不可能只靠一台大型燃氣渦輪機，或兩台大型燃氣渦輪機就做到。你做不到那個水準。你真的需要把所有缺口都補齊。

But this is something that's really in Marc's swim lane. So maybe I'll let Marc talk a little bit about what that behind the meter configuration looks like. I would just say, what we're designing is really compatible with both applications.

不過這其實更在Marc的職責範圍內。所以也許我讓Marc談談表後配置長什麼樣子。我只想說，我們正在設計的方案，確實同時相容於這兩種應用。

Like we could put this power onto the grid and sell it on a virtual -- to a virtual PPA or in front of the meter PPA. We can also do the behind the meter solution, which is the fastest go-to-market for a lot of the potential customers today who want to skip the interconnect altogether.

例如我們可以把這些電力送上電網，透過虛擬——透過虛擬PPA或表前（in front of the meter）PPA來銷售。我們也可以做表後方案；對於今天許多潛在客戶而言，這是最快的上市路徑，因為他們想完全跳過併網。

Marc, do you want to add some color to that one?

Marc，你要不要補充說明一下？

Yeah. Thanks, Danny. And I think it goes back to our overall product design and design philosophy. We selected gas turbines that are known and reliable. They're able to load follow, couple that with the PCC technology that Danny spoke to before, that is proven; it allows us to meet the initial needs of the speed of power but also clean power in the timeframe that folks are looking for.

好的。謝謝，Danny。我想這要回到我們整體的產品設計與設計理念。我們選用的是已被驗證、可靠的燃氣渦輪機。它們能夠追隨負載（load follow），再搭配Danny先前提到、已被證實的PCC技術；這讓我們能在大家所期待的時間框架內，同時滿足快速供電的初始需求，以及潔淨電力的需求。

And what's key with that is the product selection puts us in a, call it, 80- to 90-megawatt block, which is a really nice block that most of our customers are looking for when they build data center applications and look at growing their data center demand. So you're able to phase that growth with the data center construction as well, which allows it to also, if a grid connection becomes available, this solution is excellent from the standpoint of being able to provide either that firming power or the load following that's needed when you have the intermittent renewables that are on the grid.

而其中的關鍵在於，產品選型讓我們落在一個可稱為80到90MW的模組區塊，這是一個非常理想的區塊規模，符合多數客戶在建置資料中心應用、並規劃資料中心用電需求成長時所尋求的配置。因此你可以把這樣的成長節奏與資料中心的施工進度相匹配；同時，如果未來電網併網可用，從能夠提供所需的穩定電力（firming power）或負載追隨能力的角度來看，這個方案也非常出色，特別是在電網上有間歇性再生能源的情況下。

So I think we've got the right product mix that that threads the needle, if you will, from the needs of the current demands but then also applies the power and the firming the need for the grid, basically where the project is located.

所以我認為我們擁有正確的產品組合，能夠在某種程度上「穿針引線」：既滿足當前需求，也能在專案所在地為電網提供所需的電力與穩定支撐（firming）。

Betty Jiang, Barclays.

Barclays的Betty Jiang。

I want to first ask about the offtake conversations, just given so important. Marc, do you characterize that as conversation looks -- is very different now than even a year ago. Can you just give some more color on what specifically the hyperscalers are looking for? Or what's, perhaps, holding them back? Is it the confidence in the technology? Is it the scalability, timing or what is it that that you guys need to address in the subsequent months to get them comfortable?

我想先問一下關於承購（offtake）洽談的情況，因為這非常重要。Marc，你會不會形容說，現在的洽談——甚至相較一年前——已經非常不同？你能否再多補充一些細節，超大規模業者（hyperscalers）具體在尋找什麼？或者，可能是什麼因素讓他們卻步？是對技術的信心嗎？是可擴展性、時程，還是其他？接下來幾個月你們需要解決哪些問題，才能讓他們更安心？

This is Marc, and then, certainly, Danny can jump in and add some color. I think it's a lot of the things that you just hit on. I think it's from the -- and I'll add a couple to it. I think from the standpoint of the actuality of folks being in the projects to bear, for the -- either the behind the meter solutions that they're looking for or the grid connections, the realities of bringing all the different aspects of the projects together are quite difficult.

我是Marc，當然Danny也可以補充一些看法。我想你提到的很多點都涵蓋到了。我從——我也再補充幾點。我認為從實務面來看，無論是他們想要的表後方案，或是電網併網，真正把專案的各個不同面向整合到位，其實相當困難。

And I think that Net Power, we sit in a unique position with the relationships that we have with the land and the work that we've done relative to our site that we're able to bring those solutions together. And with what I just spoke to before, the technology being existing technology that we're able to meet their speed to power demands, they certainly see this as a solution that that truly makes sense and something that is viable, that provides firm, clean power.

而我認為Net Power憑藉我們與土地相關的關係，以及我們針對場址所做的工作，處在一個獨特的位置，能把這些解決方案整合起來。再加上我剛才提到的，技術本身是既有技術，使我們能滿足他們對快速供電的需求；他們確實把這視為一個真正合理、可行的解決方案，能提供穩定且潔淨的電力。

I think also from the standpoint of being in West Texas, the abundance of gas and the ability to price the gas so competitively allows our solution to really fit in to provide that power and then also the clean power. And I think as we continue to work with those hyperscalers and, again, the product size, the ability to match their data center, their growth demand from the initial, call it, the initial phases, but then able to supply the 0.5 gig or solution that meets their overall demand, whether it be a behind the meter or a physical PPA, it has and will continue to change the conversation.

我也認為，從身處西德州的角度來看，天然氣資源充沛，加上能夠以極具競爭力的價格供氣，使得我們的解決方案非常契合，既能提供所需電力，也能提供潔淨電力。而且我認為，隨著我們持續與那些超大規模業者合作，再次強調，產品規模與其資料中心相匹配的能力，能夠從最初、姑且稱之為初期階段的成長需求開始對接，並且之後也能供應0.5GW的規模或能滿足其整體需求的解決方案，不論是表後（behind the meter）或實體PPA，這已經並將持續改變對話的方向。

And then I think as we progress the conversations, the overall acceptance or discussions around the use of EOR and, as Danny alluded to, our solution along with our partners, which really fits in with the, call it, the dare of shoring up the US grid capacity and the power and enabling gas supplied power generation, is really providing a unique solution that there's only a few that are able to provide.

接著我認為，隨著我們推進對話，整體對於EOR使用的接受度或相關討論也在提升；正如Danny所提到的，我們的解決方案結合合作夥伴，確實契合、姑且稱之為「強化美國電網容量與電力、並促成以天然氣供應的發電」這項挑戰，正在提供一個只有少數業者能夠提供的獨特方案。

And just on slide 7, the different phases, is that just -- the first part, is that for that single project? Is it an extension of Project Permian?

另外就第7頁投影片而言，這些不同階段，是不是——第一部分，是針對那一個單一專案？它是Permian專案的延伸嗎？

Yeah, so what it is that's exactly right. So right now we're calling that top rows Project Permit phase one. That's the, call it, first-of-kind, first-of-type proof of concept. And then as we look at deployments two and three, they could really be in whatever size range fits, ultimately, whatever offtaker that we would find.

是的，沒錯，正是如此。所以我們現在把最上面那一列稱為Project Permian第一階段。那是、姑且稱之為首例、首型的概念驗證（proof of concept）。接著當我們看第二與第三次部署時，實際上可以落在任何合適的規模區間，最終取決於我們找到的承購方（offtaker）。

So whether they need the 320 megawatts in deployment two or deployment three, then we would size that accordingly based -- typically it's based on the data center construction schedule. And the fact that our solution is gas turbine agnostic allows us to be really flexible from the standpoint of selecting gas turbines that are available in order to meet that time frame.

因此，不論他們在第二次或第三次部署需要320MW，我們都會依此調整規模——通常是依據資料中心的建置時程來決定。而且我們的解決方案不受特定燃氣渦輪機型限制（gas turbine agnostic），使我們在選擇可供應、可在該時程內交付的燃氣渦輪方面非常有彈性。

Sorry, one more follow-up if I may. Danny, just on the equity financing comment you made earlier assuming 55% of the project being financed, that's a bit higher than the earlier comment a best scenario of closer to 25%, 30%. Maybe just what's the risking that you took there and what do you think could happen for that equity component to be even lower?

抱歉，如果可以我再追問一個問題。Danny，關於你先前提到的股權融資評論，假設專案有55%由融資來支應，這比你先前提到的最佳情境、接近25%到30%要高一些。也許你可以談談你在那裡採取了哪些風險假設？以及你認為股權那一部分有可能更低的情況會是什麼？

Yeah. And Betty, maybe I misspoke, but we're targeting -- on project financing, we're targeting 65% debt, so 35% equity. And I think before, I was talking about the equity portion would be 25% to 35%. So yeah, we're targeting 65% debt, so 35% equity, which, on a $550 million headline CapEx number, you're talking about $100 million of equity net to Net Power. So that's what we're targeting.

好的。Betty，也許我剛剛口誤了；我們的目標是——在專案融資上，我們目標是65%負債，所以35%股權。我想之前我談的是股權部分會是25%到35%。所以是的，我們目標是65%負債、35%股權；以5.5億美元的名目資本支出（headline CapEx）來看，等於約1億美元的股權會淨歸屬於Net Power。這就是我們的目標。

It could certainly be higher if you get a solid PPA where you can support a higher debt service coverage ratio, which is just like the primary metric to utilize to right size the debt capacity. You could certainly see the equity portion be a little bit lower than that. But we feel like that 65% debt coverage is like the middle of the fairway target that we're going after.

如果你拿到一份穩健的PPA，能支撐更高的債務償付覆蓋率（debt service coverage ratio），也就是用來適當配置債務容量的主要指標，那麼負債比例當然可能更高。那你就可能看到股權比例比這個數字再低一些。但我們認為65%的負債比例大致是我們追求的、相當居中的目標區間。

Nate Pendleton, Texas Capital Bank.

Nate Pendleton，德州資本銀行（Texas Capital Bank）。

Perhaps for Marc, going back to slide 7 on the larger deployments. When your team is designing these modular plants, can you talk about the potential for cost reductions in these potential larger deployments? Would it just be on the front end with the site? Or could there be material cost reductions with any integration possible between the modules?

可能想請Marc回答，回到第7頁投影片談較大型的部署。當你們團隊在設計這些模組化電廠時，能否談談在這些潛在較大型部署中，成本下降的可能性？會只是前端的場址（site）部分嗎？還是模組之間若能進行某些整合，會帶來實質的成本降低？

Yeah. Thanks, Nate. It's actually both. Certainly, from the standpoint of the designing and developing a product allows us to have minimal engineering and when you're at it at the same site, you really have reduced engineering because you're redeploying that same product over and over again as the phases are needed. And that was a part of the key selection of the megawatt block that we were targeting to make sure that we hit that, call it, the construction phase or the power on phase that hyperscalers want for their data center growth.

是的。謝謝你，Nate。其實兩者都有。當然，從設計與開發產品的角度來看，這讓我們能把工程設計降到最低；而當你在同一個場址上部署時，工程設計會進一步降低，因為你是在不同階段需要時，一次又一次地重新部署同一套產品。這也是我們在選定目標MW模組區塊時的一個關鍵考量，確保能符合超大規模業者對其資料中心成長所期待的、姑且稱之為施工階段或通電（power on）階段的節奏。

And then as you hit the nail on the head, as you deploy more and more of the same product, your leverage with supply chain just continues to increase. As well as you're gaining productivity in the field, so your EPC or your general contractor that's doing the installation just continually gets better at the installation. And then that also continues on through the startup and commissioning process.

然後你也說到重點：當你部署越來越多相同的產品，你在供應鏈上的議價能力就會持續提升。同時你在現場的生產力也會提高，因此負責安裝的EPC或總承包商會在安裝上不斷變得更有效率。而這也會延伸到啟動與試運轉（startup and commissioning）流程，持續改善。

So the part of the looking at this as a product, as a product solution that allows us to capture lessons learned from the very first implementation of Project Permian phase one. And then we will ruthlessly apply those lessons learned prior to deploying the phase so that we can continue to drive costs down as we advance.

所以，把這件事視為一項產品、作為產品化解決方案的一部分，能讓我們從Project Permian第一階段的首次實施中汲取經驗教訓。接著在部署下一階段之前，我們會毫不留情地把這些經驗教訓落實應用，以便在推進過程中持續把成本壓低。

And I wanted to touch just for a moment on oxy-combustion. Given the prior partnership with Baker Hughes and their pursuit of the industrial scale oxy-combustion plant designs, can you provide some detail around if that use case is still being pursued? And maybe what the suspension of the JDA means in the context of future development of the oxy-combustion plants?

我也想稍微談一下富氧燃燒（oxy-combustion）。鑑於先前與Baker Hughes的合作，以及他們對工業規模富氧燃燒電廠設計的推進，你們能否提供一些細節，說明這個使用情境是否仍在推動中？以及JDA暫停在未來富氧燃燒電廠開發的脈絡下意味著什麼？

Yeah. I think the best way to sum it up is that both partners have suspended as we continue and we'll continue to evaluate the viability of the industrial product. We continue to work support that as much as we can. And once we have that determination, we'll certainly communicate it as necessary.

好的。我想最好的總結方式是：雙方合作夥伴都已暫停，因為我們仍在持續、也將持續評估該工業產品的可行性。我們會盡可能持續提供支援。一旦我們做出判斷，必要時我們一定會對外溝通。

Thank you. At this time I'd like to turn the floor back over to Danny Rice for closing comments.

謝謝。此時我想把時間交回給Danny Rice做結語。

All right. Thanks, everybody. Yeah. We just want to say thank you for the questions, for the support, for the trust you guys place in this team. You know what we are doing, which is commercializing natural gas power with full carbon capture at scale, it's never been done before and we're doing it in a market that's growing faster than anyone anticipated.

好的。謝謝各位。是的。我們只想說，感謝大家的提問、支持，以及各位對這個團隊的信任。你們知道我們正在做的事——把具備完整碳捕集、可規模化的天然氣發電商業化——這以前從未有人做到，而我們是在一個成長速度超出所有人預期的市場中推進。

So I think everybody appreciates that there are challenges. There will be challenges ahead, but we want you to know that this team comes to work every day with a deep sense of purpose because if we get this right, we'll have helped solve one of the most important problems facing our country in the world, which is how do we keep the lights on affordably and reliably while leaving a cleaner planet for the next generation.

所以我想大家都理解會有挑戰。未來也會有挑戰，但我們希望你們知道，這個團隊每天來上班都帶著強烈的使命感，因為如果我們把這件事做對了，我們就能協助解決我們國家乃至全世界所面臨最重要的問題之一：我們要如何在可負擔且可靠的前提下維持供電，同時為下一代留下更潔淨的地球。

So that is important to us. That's worth every ounce of our efforts, and we are grateful to have partners and shareholders who believe in that mission alongside us. So we will talk soon. Thanks again.

所以這對我們很重要。這值得我們投入每一分努力，而我們也很感激能有合作夥伴與股東與我們一同相信這項使命。我們很快會再與各位交流。再次感謝。

Gentlemen, this concludes today's event. You may disconnect your lines or log off the webcast at this time and enjoy the rest of your day.

各位先生，今天的活動到此結束。您現在可以掛斷電話或登出網路直播，祝您今天剩下的時間愉快。