Nordson Corp (NDSN) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by and welcome to the Nordson Corporation fourth quarter fiscal year-2024 conference call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的支持，歡迎參加諾信公司 2024 財年第四季電話會議。（操作員指令）

Thank you. I'd now like to turn the call over to Lara Mahoney, Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Communications. You may begin.

謝謝。現在，我想將電話轉給投資者關係和企業傳播副總裁 Lara Mahoney。你可以開始了。

Thank you. Good morning. This is Lara Mahoney, Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Communications. We welcome you to our conference call today, Thursday, December 12, 2024 to report Nordson's fiscal year 2024. fourth quarter and full year results.

謝謝。早安.我是投資者關係和企業傳播副總裁 Lara Mahoney。歡迎您參加我們今天（2024 年 12 月 12 日星期四）的電話會議，報告 Nordson 2024 財年第四季和全年業績。

I'm here with Sundaram Nagarajan, our President and CEO; and Dan Hopgood, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. You can find both our press release as well as our webcast slide presentation that we will refer to during today's call on our website at nordson.com/investors.

我和我們的總裁兼執行長 Sundaram Nagarajan 一起在場；以及執行副總裁兼財務長 Dan Hopgood。您可以在我們的網站 nordson.com/investors 上找到我們的新聞稿以及我們將在今天的電話會議上參考的網路廣播幻燈片簡報。

This conference call is being broadcast live on our investor website and will be available there for 14 days. There will be a telephone replay of the conference call available until December 19, 2024.

本次電話會議將在我們的投資者網站上進行現場直播，並將持續 14 天。該電話會議的回放將持續到 2024 年 12 月 19 日。

During this conference call, references to non-GAAP Financial metrics will be made. A complete reconciliation of these metrics to the most comparable GAAP metric has been provided in the press release issued yesterday.

在本次電話會議中，將會參考非公認會計準則財務指標。昨天發布的新聞稿已經提供了這些指標與最具可比性的 GAAP 指標的完整對照組。

Before we begin. Please refer to slide 2 of our presentation where we note that certain statements regarding our future performance that are made during this call may be forward-looking based upon Nordson's current expectations. These statements may involve a number of risks, uncertainties and other factors as discussed in the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission that could cause actual results to differ.

在我們開始之前。請參閱我們簡報的第 2 張投影片，我們指出，根據 Nordson 目前的預期，本次電話會議中關於我們未來業績的某些陳述可能是前瞻性的。這些聲明可能涉及公司提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中所述的許多風險、不確定性和其他因素，這些因素可能會導致實際結果有所不同。

Moving to today's agenda on slide 3, Naga will discuss fourth quarter and full year highlights. He will then turn the call over to Dan to review sales and earnings performance for the total company and the three business segments. Dan also will talk about the year-end balance sheet and cash flow. Naga will conclude with high level commentary about our enterprise performance, including an update on the ascend strategy as well as our fiscal 2025 full year and first quarter guidance.

轉到幻燈片 3 上的今天的議程，Naga 將討論第四季度和全年的亮點。然後，他會將電話轉給丹，讓他回顧整個公司和三個業務部門的銷售和獲利表現。丹也將討論年終資產負債表和現金流。Naga 將對我們的企業業績進行高層評論，包括上升策略的更新以及我們的 2025 財年全年和第一季指引。

We will then be happy to take your questions. With that, I'll turn to slide 4 and hand the call over to Naga.

我們將很樂意回答您的問題。說完這些，我將翻到投影片 4，並將電話交給 Naga。

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining Nordson's fiscal 2024 fourth quarter and full year conference call. In fiscal 2024 we continue to make progress on our ascend strategy, delivering record sales of $2.7 billion and record EBITDA dollars of $849 million or 32% of sales.

大家早安。感謝您參加 Nordson 2024 財年第四季和全年電話會議。2024 財年，我們繼續推動上升策略，實現創紀錄的 27 億美元的銷售額和創紀錄的 8.49 億美元的 EBITDA，佔銷售額的 32%。

This is a testament to our employees who have in the last four years deployed and delivered results with NBS Next, our growth framework despite dynamic global macro conditions and market changes, supply chain disruptions and more. The core elements of our business model have enabled us to deliver profitable growth throughout these challenges. This includes a steadfast focus on our customers commitment to innovation, diversified geographic and end market exposures and a high level of recurring revenue through aftermarket parts and consumables.

這證明了我們的員工在過去四年中儘管面臨著全球宏觀條件和市場變化、供應鏈中斷等因素的影響，但他們仍然透過我們的成長框架 NBS Next 部署並取得了成果。我們的商業模式的核心要素使我們能夠在這些挑戰中實現獲利成長。這包括堅定不移地專注於客戶對創新的承諾、多樣化的地理和終端市場曝光以及透過售後零件和消耗品實現的高水準經常性收入。

Since launching the ascend strategy in 2021 we've added new capabilities to our business model including the NBS Next growth framework and a division led structure which have empowered our teams to respond rapidly to changing market conditions.

自 2021 年啟動上升策略以來，我們為我們的業務模式添加了新的功能，包括 NBS Next 成長框架和部門主導的結構，使我們的團隊能夠快速回應不斷變化的市場條件。

I will speak more to the enterprise performance in a few moments, but I'll now turn the call over to Dan to provide more detailed perspective on our financial results for the quarter and fiscal year 2024.

稍後我將更多地談論企業業績，但現在我將把電話轉給丹，讓他更詳細地介紹我們 2024 年季度和財年的財務業績。

Thank you, Naga and good morning to everyone. I'll start on slide 5 which summarizes our overall results for the fourth quarter. You'll see fourth quarter 2024 sales were $744 million up 4% compared to the prior year’s fourth quarter, sales of $719 million. The increase included 6% growth from acquisitions primarily from the recent Atrion acquisition but also the final weeks of contribution from the ARAG acquisition that we completed in the prior year.

謝謝你，Naga，大家早安。我將從第 5 張投影片開始，該投影片總結了我們第四季的整體業績。您會發現 2024 年第四季的銷售額為 7.44 億美元，與去年同期的 7.19 億美元相比成長 4%。這一增長包括來自收購的 6% 的增長，主要來自最近對 Atrion 的收購，也包括我們在上一年完成的 ARAG 收購的最後幾週的貢獻。

Currency translation was favorable by 1% and organic sales were down 3% compared to the fourth quarter of the prior year. The organic sales decrease was driven by challenging year over year comparisons in our industrial precision solutions segment and year over year declines in selected product categories within our medical and fluid solutions segment.

與去年同期相比，貨幣換算有利 1%，有機銷售額下降 3%。有機銷售額下降是由於我們的工業精密解決方案部門同比出現挑戰以及醫療和流體解決方案部門部分產品類別同比出現下滑。

These were partially offset by a return to growth in our advanced technology solutions segment and I'll cover a bit more on each of our segments in a moment. Adjusted operating profit, which excludes $26 million in non-recurring costs related to the Atrion acquisition and one-time restructuring costs during the quarter with $205 million up 30 basis points from the prior year on a percentage of sales base.

這些損失被我們先進技術解決方案部門的恢復成長部分抵消了，稍後我將對我們每個部門進行更詳細的介紹。調整後營業利潤為 2.05 億美元，扣除與收購 Atrion 相關的 2,600 萬美元非經常性成本和本季的一次性重組費用，按銷售額百分比計算，比上年增長 30 個基點。

This was driven by gross margin improvements of about 110 basis points reflecting factory efficiency gains and a higher mix of parts revenue. Selling, general and administrative expenses as a percentage of sales increased about 80 basis points year-over-year, reflecting the addition of Atrion and continued investment in front end growth initiatives.

這是由於毛利率提高約 110 個基點，反映了工廠效率的提高和零件收入組合的增加。銷售、一般及行政開支佔銷售額的百分比較上年同期增加約 80 個基點，反映出 Atrion 的加入及對前端增長計劃的持續投資。

All in, this represents a 35% incremental operating margin for the company which is on the high end of our targeted performance. EBITDA for the fourth quarter increased 6% over the prior year to a record $241 million or 32% of sales. This is 200 basis points above our long term profitability target as articulated in our ascend strategy. This also compares to $227 million also at 32% of sales in the prior year fourth quarter, that translates into a 56% incremental EBITDA on our 4% overall sales growth for the quarter. A really strong quarter of both operational execution and the initial integration of the Atrion acquisition.

總的來說，這意味著公司的營業利潤率將增加35%，處於我們目標績效的高端。第四季的 EBITDA 較上年同期成長 6%，達到創紀錄的 2.41 億美元，佔銷售額的 32%。這比我們上升策略中闡明的長期獲利目標高出 200 個基點。相較之下，去年同期第四季的銷售額為 2.27 億美元，佔銷售額的 32%，這意味著本季整體銷售額成長 4%，EBITDA 增量為 56%。這是一個非常強勁的季度，無論是營運執行還是 Atrion 收購的初步整合。

Looking at non-operating income and expenses in the quarter, interest expense in the quarter increased nominally to $27 million, this modest increase is driven by higher net debt levels due to acquisitions compared to the prior year. As a reminder in September, we access the public debt markets raising $600 million in five year notes priced at 4.5% in order to finance the Atrion acquisition. The balance of the purchase price was funded with our revolver which we expect to pay down in the near term.

縱觀本季的非營業收入和支出，本季的利息支出名義上增加至 2,700 萬美元，這一小幅增長是由於收購導致的淨債務水準與上年同期相比有所上升。提醒一下，9 月份，我們進入公共債務市場，以 4.5% 的利率發行 6 億美元五年期債券，用於資助 Atrion 的收購。購買價格的餘額由我們的循環信貸提供資金，我們預計近期內將償還。

Other expense on a net basis increased $5 million year-over-year, primarily due to currency fluctuations and some reduction in pension income year-over-year. Tax expense was $26 million for the quarter, an effective tax rate of 17%. Our fourth quarter tax rate reflects changes in our mix of earnings due to acquisitions and other structural changes. It reflects a full year effective tax rate of approximately 20%. This improved mix is expected to continue going forward and you'll see this reflected in our 2025 guidance that Naga will cover a bit later.

其他淨支出較上年同期增加了 500 萬美元，主要原因是貨幣波動及退休金收入較上年同期減少。本季稅費為2600萬美元，有效稅率為17%。我們的第四季稅率反映了由於收購和其他結構性變化而導致的收益結構變化。它反映了全年約20%的有效稅率。預計這種改進的組合將繼續下去，您將在 Naga 稍後將介紹的 2025 年指引中看到這一點。

Debt net income totaled $122 million or $2.12 per diluted share. While adjusted earnings per share, excluding non-recurring acquisition and restructuring related expenses totaled $2.78 per share, a 3% increase over the prior year. Adjusted earnings per share were $0.19 above the midpoint of our guidance for the quarter reflecting equal contributions from strong operating performance during the quarter and the favorable tax rate differential that I just mentioned.

債務淨收入總計 1.22 億美元，即每股攤薄收入 2.12 美元。調整後的每股收益（不包括非經常性收購和重組相關費用）總計為每股 2.78 美元，比上年增長 3%。調整後的每股盈餘比我們本季預期的中點高出 0.19 美元，這反映了本季強勁的營運業績和我剛才提到的優惠稅率差異帶來的同等貢獻。

Now let's turn to slide 6 through 8 to review our fourth quarter segment, performance. Industrial precision solutions sales of $392 million decreased 3% compared to the prior year fourth quarter. Organically IPS decreased 5% in the quarter with the ARAG acquisition adding 1% and currency providing a favorable impact of another 1%.

現在讓我們翻到投影片 6 到 8 來回顧我們第四季的業績。工業精密解決方案銷售額為 3.92 億美元，較去年同期第四季下降 3%。本季 IPS 有機收入下降 5%，其中 ARAG 收購貢獻了 1%，而貨幣因素也帶來了另外 1% 的有利影響。

You'll recall that IPS delivered record sales in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2023 driven by record sales and industrial coating product lines and elevated deliveries in our polymer processing products. These create tough year over year comparisons for the segment and are driving the overall organic decline in the IPS segment for the quarter. For the full year IPS organic sales were flat with the prior year. EBITDA for the quarter was $143 million or 37% of sales reflecting consistent operational performance on slightly lower sales.

您會記得，IPS 在 2023 財年第四季度實現了創紀錄的銷售額，這得益於創紀錄的銷售額和工業塗料產品線以及聚合物加工產品交付量的提高。這些因素使得該部門的同比表現難以比較，並導致本季 IPS 部門整體有機下滑。IPS 全年有機銷售額與前一年持平。本季的 EBITDA 為 1.43 億美元，佔銷售額的 37%，反映出在銷售額略有下降的情況下，營運表現依然穩定。

Turning to slide 7, medical and fluid solution sales of $200 million increased 19% compared to the prior year's fourth quarter. This increase was primarily driven by the Atrion acquisition and a minor currency benefit offset by a decrease in organic sales volume of 3% or $5 million. The organic volume decline reflects some softness and medical interventional solutions product lines, partially offset by modest improvement in our fluid component and fluid dispense product lines.

第 7 頁，醫療和液體解決方案銷售額為 2 億美元，與去年同期第四季相比成長了 19%。這一增長主要得益於收購 Atrion 以及少量貨幣收益，但有機銷售額下降 3% 或 500 萬美元抵消了這一增長。有機銷售的下降反映了一些疲軟和醫療介入解決方案產品線，但被我們的流體組件和流體分配產品線的適度改善部分抵消。

Fourth quarter, EBITDA was $72 million or 36% of sales, which is an increase of 17% compared to the prior year EBITDA of $62 million or 37% of sales. EBITDA margins were slightly lower than the prior year due to the inclusion of the acquired Atrion business. You'll recall that we expect Atrion's EBITDA margins to improve over time as we continue to integrate the business and implement our NBS Next growth framework.

第四季度，EBITDA 為 7,200 萬美元，佔銷售額的 36%，較去年同期的 EBITDA 6,200 萬美元或占銷售額的 37% 增長 17%。由於納入收購的 Atrion 業務，EBITDA 利潤率略低於去年。您會記得，隨著我們繼續整合業務並實施 NBS Next 成長框架，我們預計 Atrion 的 EBITDA 利潤率將隨著時間的推移而提高。

Turning to slide 8, you'll see advanced technology solution sales of $152 million increased 5% compared to the prior year’s fourth quarter. This change included an increase in organic sales volume of 4% as well as a small currency benefit. Growth in the quarter was driven by improvement in selected test and inspection product lines as well as modest improvement within our electronics dispense product lines.

翻到第 8 張投影片，您會看到先進技術解決方案的銷售額為 1.52 億美元，與去年同期第四季相比成長了 5%。這項變化包括有機銷售額增加 4% 以及小幅貨幣收益。本季的成長得益於選定的測試和檢測產品線的改進以及電子分配產品線的適度改進。

Our sales and ATS reflect continued sequential improvement from the third quarter and a return to nominal year over year growth in this segment for the first time since the first quarter of fiscal 2023. We've seen electronics and semiconductor end markets continue to show signs of stable improvement.

我們的銷售額和 ATS 反映出自第三季以來的持續環比改善，並且自 2023 財年第一季以來該部門首次恢復名義同比增長。我們看到電子和半導體終端市場持續呈現穩定改善的跡象。

Fourth quarter, EBITDA was $41 million or 27% of sales an increase of $6 million from the prior year fourth quarter, EBITDA of 35 million or 24% of sales. We're really pleased with the segment's EBITDA performance particularly in a down cycle as the 27% EBITDA margin performance represents a significant step up from historical performance. It's a testament to the team's efforts to improve the structure of the base business and it positions us well when the electronics markets return to more meaningful growth.

第四季度，EBITDA 為 4,100 萬美元，佔銷售額的 27%，較去年同期的 EBITDA 3,500 萬美元（佔銷售額的 24%）增加 600 萬美元。我們對該部門的 EBITDA 表現感到非常滿意，尤其是在下行週期中，27% 的 EBITDA 利潤率表現較歷史表現有顯著提升。這證明了團隊為改善基礎業務結構所做的努力，並且當電子市場恢復更有意義的成長時，它將為我們帶來良好的地位。

Now, turning to slide 9, I'll share a few comments on our full year results. 2024 full year sales were a record $2.7 billion an increase of 2% compared to the prior year's, previous record sales results. This was driven by a 5% impact from acquisitions offset by an organic decrease of 3%. On a full year basis, the organic sales decrease is essentially all driven by our advanced technology solutions segment. Although we did see orders and sales continue to improve in our ATS product lines as we exited 2024.

現在，翻到第 9 頁，我將就我們的全年業績分享一些評論。 2024 年全年銷售額達到創紀錄的 27 億美元，比前一年創紀錄的銷售業績成長 2%。這是由於收購帶來的 5% 的影響，但被 3% 的有機下降所抵消。從全年來看，有機銷售額的下降基本上都是由我們的先進技術解決方案部門所推動的。儘管我們確實看到，在 2024 年即將結束時，我們的 ATS 產品線的訂單和銷售量持續改善。

The industrial precision solutions, medical and fluid solutions segments were essentially flat organically on a combined basis with industrial up slightly and medical down slightly for the year. Adjusted operating profit was $713 million or 27% of sales which was comparable to the prior year. EBITDA for the full year increased 4% to a record $849 million or 32% of sales. This represents a full year incremental EBITDA margin of 49% and it marks the fourth consecutive year of the ascend strategy delivering solid EBITDA growth.

工業精密解決方案、醫療和流體解決方案部門全年有機成長基本持平，其中工業部門略有上升，醫療部門略有下降。調整後營業利潤為 7.13 億美元，佔銷售額的 27%，與去年同期持平。全年 EBITDA 成長 4%，達到創紀錄的 8.49 億美元，佔銷售額的 32%。這意味著全年 EBITDA 利潤率增量為 49%，這也是升勢策略連續第四年實現穩健的 EBITDA 成長。

GAAP diluted earnings per share were $8.11 for the year and adjusted diluted earnings per share were $9.73 a 1% decrease from the prior year reflecting the higher interest costs associated with the ARAG and Atrion acquisitions. On balance, we're pleased with how we finished the year despite some near term weakness in certain end markets and we remain confident in our five year targets established at our October 2024 Investor Day.

全年 GAAP 攤薄每股收益為 8.11 美元，調整後每股攤薄收益為 9.73 美元，較前一年下降 1%，反映出與 ARAG 和 Atrion 收購相關的更高利息成本。總的來說，儘管某些終端市場短期內存在一些疲軟，但我們對今年的收官感到滿意，並且我們對 2024 年 10 月投資者日確定的五年目標仍然充滿信心。

Finally turning to the balance sheet and cash flow on slide 10. We had another strong cash flow year generating $492 million in free cash flow at a conversion rate of 105% on net income. While still strong, cash flow conversion was down from 2023 and this was due to higher capital investments and additional use of working capital both of which we expect to normalize going forward.

最後轉到第 10 頁的資產負債表和現金流量表。我們又度過了現金流強勁的一年，產生了 4.92 億美元的自由現金流，淨收入轉換率為 105%。現金流轉換雖然仍然強勁，但較 2023 年有所下降，這是由於資本投資增加和營運資本的額外使用導致的，我們預計這兩者都將在未來正常化。

While our debt balance increased in the quarter due to the Atrion acquisition, we continue to deploy cash efficiently. During the quarter, we increased our annual dividend by 15% marking our 61st year of consecutive annual increases. On a full year basis, excluding the impact of the Atrion acquisition, we repaid approximately $315 million of debt, paid out a $161 million in dividends and repurchased $28 million of shares on the open market.

雖然由於收購 Atrion，我們本季的債務餘額有所增加，但我們仍在繼續有效地部署現金。本季度，我們將年度股息提高了 15%，這是我們連續第 61 年增加年度股息。全年來看，不包括收購 Atrion 的影響，我們償還了約 3.15 億美元的債務，支付了 1.61 億美元的股息，並在公開市場上回購了價值 2,800 萬美元的股票。

Through our strategic capital deployment, we ended the year with a strong balance sheet with cash balances of $116 million and net debt at $2.1 billion resulting in a leverage ratio of 2.5 times based on trailing 12 months EBITDA, this is within our targeted long term range and also in line with our expectations for the year.

透過我們的策略資本部署，我們在年底擁有強勁的資產負債表，現金餘額為 1.16 億美元，淨債務為 21 億美元，基於過去 12 個月的 EBITDA，槓桿率為 2.5 倍，這在我們的長期目標範圍內，也符合我們對今年的預期。

So in closing, just to summarize our fourth quarter sales were in line with our previous guidance and we came in better from an overall profit conversion standpoint. We're very pleased to see our advanced technology segment continue to show signs of positive improvement in demand and our IPS and MFS segments continue to deliver strong operational performance, despite some near term demand weakness in selected product lines. We closed fiscal 2024 with a strong balance sheet and we steadily reinvested in the business positioning ourselves well, for a dynamic 2025.

最後，總結一下，我們第四季的銷售額符合先前的預期，而且從整體利潤轉換的角度來看，我們的表現更好。我們非常高興地看到，我們的先進技術部門繼續顯示出需求積極改善的跡象，儘管部分產品線的短期需求疲軟，但我們的 IPS 和 MFS 部門繼續提供強勁的營運業績。我們以強勁的資產負債表結束了 2024 財年，並穩步對業務進行再投資，為充滿活力的 2025 年做好了準備。

I'll now turn the call back to Naga.

我現在將電話轉回給 Naga。

Thank you Dan. As I reflect on the past four years since we launched our ascend strategy, we started from a position of strength with many competitive advantages, leadership position in diversified niche end markets, high recurring parts revenues, a direct to customer model and differentiated products built on deep knowledge of our customers demanding applications.

謝謝你，丹。回顧我們推出上升策略以來的過去四年，我們從一開始就具有強大的競爭優勢，在多元化利基終端市場佔據領導地位，擁有高額的經常性零件收入，採用直接面向客戶的模式，並基於對客戶苛刻應用的深入了解而打造出差異化產品。

In the past four years, we have added two new advantages to expand our competitive mode. The first is a renewed emphasis on our growth bias portfolio that has positioned us to accelerate profitable growth. Over time, we have strategically increased our mix of recurring revenue and we have expanded into the high growth end markets of medical and electronics. This mix has been strategically driven through organic and acquisitive means. In the short term end market cycles and unique macro conditions have slowed organic growth in these segments.

在過去四年裡，我們又增加了兩個新的優勢來擴展我們的競爭模式。首先，我們重新重視成長偏向投資組合，這使我們能夠加速獲利成長。隨著時間的推移，我們策略性地增加了經常性收入的結構，並擴展到醫療和電子等高成長終端市場。這種組合是透過有機和收購手段策略性地推動的。短期內，終端市場週期和獨特的宏觀條件已經減緩了這些領域的有機成長。

This increases the importance of balancing organic growth with acquisitions. Our recent Atrion medical acquisition is a great example of this strategy. This acquisition expands our fluid components, addressable market by more than 50% by adding products and solutions for infusion therapies and drug delivery. It also expands our current offering to top medical device customers and broadens not since exposure to significant single use consumables with recurring revenue streams.

這增加了平衡有機成長與收購的重要性。我們最近收購 Atrion 醫療公司就是這項策略的一個很好的例子。此次收購增加了用於輸液治療和藥物輸送的產品和解決方案，使我們的流體組件目標市場擴大了 50% 以上。它還擴大了我們目前向頂級醫療設備客戶提供的服務，並擴大了我們對具有經常性收入來源的重要一次性消耗品的接觸。

Atrion was a solid contributor to our fourth quarter revenue and it'll be a growth driver in fiscal 2025 and beyond. The second advantage that we have added to Nordson is the NBS Next growth framework. It drives profitable growth and creates value in our acquisitions. I'm very pleased with the implementation of NBS Next, which is becoming a competitive advantage.

Atrion 是我們第四季營收的重要貢獻者，並將成為 2025 財年及以後的成長動力。我們為 Nordson 增添的第二個優勢是 NBS Next 成長框架。它推動獲利成長並為我們的收購創造價值。我對 NBS Next 的實施感到非常高興，它正在成為我的競爭優勢。

Throughout 2024, I traveled to many of Nordson's sites including Europe, China and India in October and November. It is clear to me that the NBS next growth framework is now how we run our businesses. You can see the evidence in the fourth quarter results of our ATS segment.

整個 2024 年，我於 10 月和 11 月前往了 Nordson 的許多站點，包括歐洲、中國和印度。我很清楚國家統計局的下一個成長框架就是我們經營業務的方式。您可以在我們 ATS 部門第四季的業績中看到證據。

As Dan noted ATS achieved 27% EBITDA margins while still in the downside of the electronic cycle, due to its strategic repositioning. They'll be very well positioned to respond to customers when the market turns. At our Investor Day in October, we shared several examples of how NBS Next has driven improved performance in on time delivery and product quality, allowing the Nordson divisions to protect and grow market share. I encourage you to listen to the Investor Day webcast recording which is available in our investor website.

正如丹所指出的，由於策略性重新定位，ATS 在電子週期下行時期實現了 27% 的 EBITDA 利潤率。當市場發生變化時，他們將能夠很好地回應客戶的需求。在十月份的投資者日上，我們分享了幾個案例，說明 NBS Next 如何推動準時交付和產品品質的提高，從而使 Nordson 各部門能夠保護和擴大市場份額。我鼓勵您收聽投資者日網路廣播錄音，該錄音可在我們的投資者網站上找到。

As we work towards our new financial performance targets, NBS Next and ascend strategy have ample runway to enable the Nordson team to be successful in the next five years. Also at our Investor Day, we announced our 2025 to 2029 performance targets. In 2029, when we look back on our financial results, we expect to leverage the ascend strategy to deliver average annual growth of 6% to 8% in revenue, balance between organic and acquisitive growth and 10% to 12% in adjusted EPS growth.

在我們努力實現新的財務績效目標的過程中，NBS Next 和上升策略擁有充足的空間，使 Nordson 團隊能夠在未來五年取得成功。此外，在投資者日，我們也宣布了 2025 年至 2029 年的業績目標。2029 年，當我們回顧我們的財務表現時，我們預計利用上升策略實現收入年均增長 6% 至 8%，有機增長和收購增長之間取得平衡，調整後每股收益增長 10% 至 12%。

As this is an average annual growth target for that period, growth can be higher in some years and lower in others. We are entering 2025 prudently with conservative expectations for many of our end markets. We also recognize the level of change in the global micro environment which could cause our customers to be judicious in their spending in the near term. In our industrial precision solutions segment, although our current order entry trends are encouraging, we are expecting large capital investments to be muted in the near term based on customer conversations and reduced backlog levels.

由於這是該時期的平均年增長目標，因此有些年份的成長率可能較高，而其他年份的成長率可能較低。我們正謹慎地邁入 2025 年，對許多終端市場抱持保守的預期。我們也認識到全球微觀環境的變化程度，這可能會導致我們的客戶在短期內明智地支出。在我們的工業精密解決方案領域，儘管我們目前的訂單輸入趨勢令人鼓舞，但根據客戶對話和積壓水準的減少，我們預計短期內大規模資本投資將會減少。

For our large system businesses, particularly polymer processing product lines, reduced investment in areas such as recycling will be significant headwinds after two record sales years. Additionally, although European agriculture and market seems to have stabilized, we are cautiously awaiting meaningful growth. Within our medical and fluid solutions segment, medical device customers supply chain teams are being far more cautious with their inventory purchase patterns.

對於我們的大型系統業務，特別是聚合物加工產品線，在經歷了兩年創紀錄的銷售業績後，在回收等領域的投資減少將成為重大阻力。此外，儘管歐洲農業和市場似乎已經穩定下來，但我們仍在謹慎地等待有意義的成長。在我們的醫療和流體解決方案領域，醫療器材客戶供應鏈團隊對其庫存採購模式更加謹慎。

We currently see this impact in weakness within our interventional solutions product line which is approximately 47% of this segment's sales. Long term project pipelines remain solid and we continue to stay close to our customers and ensure we understand their post COVID supply chain product needs.

目前，我們看到這種影響體現在介入解決方案產品線的疲軟，該產品線約佔該部門銷售額的 47%。長期專案儲備依然穩健，我們將繼續與客戶保持密切聯繫，確保了解他們在 COVID 之後的供應鏈產品需求。

Modest growth from our fluid components and fluid dispense product lines will somewhat offset this pressure but we expect MFS growth to largely come from the Atrion acquisition in fiscal 2025. Positively, we expect to see continued steady improvement in sales from our electronics customers, that said we do not expect that a significant ramp in capital spending is eminent as customer purchasing patterns have been weary compared to prior electronic cycles, particularly in semiconductor applications. We remain close to our customers particularly with geopolitical issues in play.

我們的流體組件和流體分配產品線的適度增長將在一定程度上抵消這種壓力，但我們預計 MFS 的成長主要來自於 2025 財年對 Atrion 的收購。正面的一面是，我們預期電子客戶的銷售額將繼續穩定成長，但我們預期資本支出不會大幅成長，因為與先前的電子週期相比，客戶的購買模式一直比較疲軟，特別是在半導體應用領域。我們與客戶保持密切聯繫，特別是在解決地緣政治問題方面。

Now turning to the financial outlook on slide 14. We enter fiscal 2025 with approximately $580 million in backlog. The sequential backlog reduction is reflective of a pace return to more normalized levels. Based on the combination of order entry backlog, current foreign exchange rates and anticipated and market expectations, we anticipate delivering sales in the range of 2% to 7% above fiscal 2024 sales, full year 2025 adjusted earnings are forecasted to be in the range of neutral to 8% growth per diluted share.

現在我們來看看第 14 頁的財務展望。進入 2025 財年，我們的積壓訂單約為 5.8 億美元。連續的積壓減少反映了速度回歸到更正常化的程度。根據訂單積壓、當前外匯匯率以及預期和市場預期等因素，我們預計 2025 財年的銷售額將比 2024 財年增長 2% 至 7%，預計 2025 年全年調整後每股收益將保持在中性至 8% 的增長範圍內。

For modeling purposes in fiscal 2025 assume an estimated effective tax rate of 19% to 21% capital expenditures of approximately $50 million to $60 million and interest expense of approximately $90 million to $100 million. This full year guidance assumes a negative 1.5% impact from foreign exchange rates, no significant recovery in ramp in electronics or agriculture end markets and the Atrion acquisition contributing approximately 6% growth at the midpoint of guidance. If we see improvements in our end markets, we will adjust. Based on seasonality, we expect our fiscal first quarter to start modestly.

為了建立 2025 財年的模型，假設預期有效稅率為 19% 至 21%，資本支出約為 5,000 萬美元至 6,000 萬美元，利息支出約為 9,000 萬美元至 1 億美元。本全年指引假設外匯匯率產生 1.5% 的負面衝擊，電子或農業終端市場的成長沒有明顯復甦，而 Atrion 收購將貢獻指引中位數約 6% 的成長。如果我們看到終端市場有所改善，我們就會進行調整。根據季節性，我們預計第一財季開局溫和。

As you will see on slide 15, first quarter fiscal 2025 sales are forecasted in the range of $615 million to $655 million and adjusted earnings in the range of $1.95 to $2.15 per diluted share. Even in uncertain times, our team delivers operational excellence and strong cash flow due to our strong competitive advantages. As a growth compounder, we will continue to reinvest in the business while returning cash to our shareholders. Again, I want to thank our employees, customers and shareholders for your continued support.

正如您在第 15 張投影片上看到的，預計 2025 財年第一季的銷售額將在 6.15 億美元至 6.55 億美元之間，調整後每股收益將在 1.95 美元至 2.15 美元之間。即使在不確定的時期，我們的團隊仍憑藉強大的競爭優勢實現卓越的營運和強勁的現金流。作為一家成長複合型企業，我們將繼續對業務進行再投資，同時向股東返還現金。再次，我要感謝我們的員工、客戶和股東的持續支持。

We will now open the phone lines for questions.

我們現在將開通電話熱線來解答疑問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Mike Halloran, Baird.

麥克·哈洛倫，貝爾德。

Hey, good morning, everyone.

嘿，大家早安。

Morning, Mike.

早上好，麥克。

Appreciate all the thoughts at the end there on the outlook and the conservatism in the first quarter and some of the variable order patterns. But maybe you could frame up how you're thinking about growth as it works through the year. It doesn't sound like you're embedding any fundamental improvement, is the guidance assuming relatively normal seasonality and maybe just give some thoughts on what your customers are saying or how you see these end markets cadencing as we work through the year.

我很欣賞最後對第一季的前景和保守主義以及一些可變訂單模式的所有想法。但也許你可以構思一下你對全年成長的看法。聽起來你並沒有嵌入任何根本性的改進，指導是否假設相對正常的季節性，也許只是根據你的客戶的看法或你如何看待這些終端市場在我們全年工作過程中的節奏給出一些想法。

Mike, thank you for the question. We'll do it this way. Let me first give you, what we're seeing in the end markets and then Dan can walk you through the guidance and how we're thinking -- how we have built the outlook, right. So let's start with the -- all right, let's start with IPS.

麥克，謝謝你的提問。我們就這麼做。首先，讓我告訴你我們在終端市場看到的情況，然後丹可以向你介紹指導意見以及我們的想法——我們如何建立前景，對吧。那麼讓我們開始吧——好的，讓我們從 IPS 開始。

In IPS, what I would tell you is the our consumer, non-durable end markets seems to have a steady outlook and, there are parts that are really good and then there are parts that are steady. Further are recurring revenue in this business is fairly high as you know, and this has grown last year, we expect it to contribute nicely in the year.

在IPS中，我想告訴你的是，我們的消費者非耐用品終端市場似乎前景穩定，而且有些部分非常好，也有些部分比較穩定。此外，如您所知，這項業務的經常性收入相當高，去年有所成長，我們預計今年將做出良好貢獻。

On the headwinds, what I would share with you is that we are expecting large capital investments to be muted in the near term, based on customer conversations and reduced backlog, particularly in the polymer processing product line, we have seen reduced investments, after record two sales -- record years of two years of sales and reduce investment in recycling and also some push start investments in virgin polymer in Asia.

關於不利因素，我想告訴大家的是，根據客戶對話和積壓訂單的減少，我們預計短期內大型資本投資將會減少，特別是在聚合物加工產品線方面，在創下兩年銷售記錄之後，我們看到投資減少 - 創下兩年銷售記錄並減少對回收的投資，以及在亞洲推動對原生聚合物的一些投資。

They're also seeing slowness in automotive with our ICS business. Our Agriculture Precision Act business in Europe, things have stabilized and we're cautiously awaiting the return there. So that's the puts and takes in IPS. If you look at MFS, we do see modest growth in our fluid components business, which is sort of there is some exposure in biopharma, we're seeing order entry modestly pick up there.

他們也發現我們的 ICS 業務在汽車領域表現緩慢。我們在歐洲的農業精準行動業務已經穩定下來，我們正謹慎地等待那裡的回歸。這就是 IPS 的得失。如果你看看 MFS，我們確實看到我們的流體組件業務出現了適度增長，這在生物製藥領域有一定的曝光率，我們看到那裡的訂單量略有回升。

Fluid dispense business is also doing fairly steady. So these two businesses will offset the pressure we're seeing in our medical interventional business. In our medical interventional product category, what we're finding out is that, the OEM supply chain teams are far more conservative and cautious about their inventory purchases. And hence, we're seeing weakness in this product line and remind you this is about 47% of the segment's revenues.

流體分配業務也表現相當穩定。因此，這兩項業務將抵消我們在醫療介入業務中看到的壓力。在我們的醫療介入產品類別中，我們發現，OEM供應鏈團隊在庫存採購方面更加保守和謹慎。因此，我們發現該產品線有弱點，並提醒您，這約佔該部門收入的 47%。

Long term project pipelines look pretty strong for this product category. In addition, Atrion addressable market increase for our businesses has a very positive development and the growth in this segment would primarily come from Atrion acquisition. The ATS business segment, what you find there is steady improvement and positive order entry to sustain the kind of growth rates you saw in the fourth quarter.

對於該產品類別來說，長期專案儲備看起來相當強勁。此外，Atrion 可尋址市場的成長對於我們的業務具有非常積極的發展，而該領域的成長主要來自於對 Atrion 的收購。ATS 業務部門，您會發現其穩定改善和積極的訂單量以維持第四季度的成長率。

We don't -- our assumptions are there is not a significant ramp in capital spending, mainly we see the order patterns in this recovery, far more choppier than we have seen in the past. We remain close to our customer, there is a number of geopolitical issues that are at play here and that impacts this business. So that gives you sort of a broad overview of what we are experiencing in the end markets.

我們並不這麼認為——我們的假設是資本支出不會大幅成長，主要是我們看到此次復甦中的訂單模式比過去更加不穩定。我們與客戶保持密切聯繫，這裡存在著許多地緣政治問題，這些都對業務產生影響。這可以讓您大致了解我們在終端市場所經歷的情況。

And maybe let me have Dan walk you through how that plays into our outlook.

也許可以讓丹向您介紹這對我們的觀點有何影響。

Yeah, thanks Naga. And the only thing that I might add just on the market overview is just, and maybe this is more of a reminder, on our ag business while we've seen certainly our book and bill and order rates stabilize, we still have one quarter of tough comparables in Q1 in that business, as you recall, Q1 of last year, we were working off a large backlog in our ag business.

是的，謝謝 Naga。關於市場概況我唯一想補充的是，也許這更像是一個提醒，在我們的農業業務方面，雖然我們已經看到我們的賬面、賬單和訂單率已經穩定下來，但在第一季度，該業務仍然有一個季度的艱難可比性，正如你記得的，去年第一季度，我們正在處理農業業務中的大量積壓訂單。

So we've seen that, the underlying business as Nag said, is in a very good stable place, but we've got one more tough comparable in Q1 in the ag business due to the backlog work off last year. So that said Mike just to give you some color, if you think of the overall market outlook and basically think of flat organic growth for the year, what I would tell you is the sales profile, if you look at our Q1 guidance in the full year, it's pretty much right in line with the seasonality that we would typically see in the business.

因此，我們看到，正如納格所說，基礎業務處於非常穩定的狀態，但由於去年的積壓工作，我們在第一季的農業業務中又面臨著一個艱難的可比性。所以麥克說的話只是為了給你一些信息，如果你考慮整體市場前景，並基本上考慮今年持平的有機增長，我會告訴你的是銷售狀況，如果你看看我們全年第一季的指引，它幾乎與我們通常在業務中看到的季節性一致。

Well, Q1 is always our lowest quarter, typically around 23% of our annual sales if you look at history excluding acquisitions and so I think you'll see that play out in our guidance, the only anomaly that we see this year and it's not a big contributing factor, but it is a factor is the timing of Chinese New Year actually hits our first quarter this year, whereas it's hit our second quarter the last couple of years.

嗯，第一季度始終是我們銷售額最低的季度，如果從歷史上看，不包括收購，通常第一季度的銷售額只佔年銷售額的 23% 左右，所以我認為你會在我們的指導中看到這一點，這是我們今年看到的唯一異常，雖然不是一個很大的促成因素，但有一個因素是，今年農曆新年的時間實際上影響了我們的第一季度，而過去幾年都是影響我們的第二季度。

So if anything, that just means Q1 will be slightly weaker than normal because we lose that product -- that production in Q1 that would typically hit us in Q2. But other than that, it's pretty much right in line with our seasonality that we've seen historically.

因此，如果有的話，這僅意味著第一季的表現將比正常情況略弱，因為我們失去了該產品——第一季的產量通常會在第二季度對我們造成影響。但除此之外，它與我們歷史上看到的季節性基本一致。

Okay. That was really helpful. Thanks for that follow up. On the electronic side in the fourth quarter was there anything unusual? I mean, was there just kind of a flush that happened because I know we've had some delays that have materialized. Was it just an element of finally getting some of those projects pushed through?

好的。這確實很有幫助。感謝您的跟進。第四季電子方面有什麼異常嗎？我的意思是，是否發生了某種突發事件，因為我知道我們已經遇到了一些實際的延誤。這是否只是為了最終推動一些專案的一個因素？

Would you consider that the right run rate and then related, what are you seeing that gives you confidence that there's some modest improvement coming on the electronic side. I know the capital piece you're cautious on but any kind of more subtext on where that improvement is coming from on the electronic side, even if it is modest.

您是否認為正確的運行率以及相關的情況讓您相信電子方面會有一些適度的改善。我知道你對資本部分持謹慎態度，但對於電子方面的改進來自何處，即使是微不足道的改進，任何潛台詞都是如此。

Yeah. Look, there are a couple of things that I would point to, first and foremost, we certainly are seeing strong continued conversations with our customers around projects and things that are coming our way. So that's number one.

是的。看，我想指出幾件事，首先也是最重要的，我們確實看到我們與客戶就專案和即將發生的事情進行持續的密切對話。這是第一點。

Second, what we're beginning to see is those conversations beginning to translate into order entry and that order entry is allowing us to deliver the kind of growth we did in the fourth quarter, probably the first time in a long, long time.

其次，我們開始看到這些對話開始轉化為訂單，而訂單讓我們實現了第四季度所實現的成長，這可能是很長一段時間以來的第一次。

We are seeing parts revenue in that business also be pretty steady for us. The caution and conservatism is that we're not seeing significant capital spending. So essentially, we're trying to be conservative here in trying to call this as the significant uptick, but the positive order trends in the business gives us confidence that this would be a pretty, modest growth period for ATS in 2025.

我們看到該業務的零件收入對我們來說也相當穩定。謹慎和保守的原因是我們沒有看到大量的資本支出。因此，從本質上講，我們試圖保守地將此稱為顯著的上升，但業務中的積極訂單趨勢使我們相信，這將是 2025 年 ATS 的一個相當溫和的增長期。

And then just the fourth quarter piece, anything in the fourth quarter that you thought was an anomaly or is that relatively normal

然後是第四季度，你認為第四季有什麼異常情況，或相對正常嗎？

Pretty normal.

很正常。

Normal?

普通的？

Yeah.

是的。

(multiple speaker) Yeah. Appreciate that.

（多位發言者）是的。非常感謝。

Saree Boroditsky, Jefferies.

薩裡‧博羅迪茨基 (Saree Boroditsky)，傑富瑞 (Jefferies)。

Hi, thanks for taking the questions. A couple of small items, you cited the backlog including Atrion at $580 million. But could you just help us understand the backlog excess acquisition?

嗨，感謝您回答這些問題。有幾個小問題，您提到了包括 Atrion 在內的積壓訂單，價值 5.8 億美元。但是您能幫助我們了解積壓過量採購嗎？

Yeah, I think that Dan, you want to take that, please?

是的，我認為丹，你想接受這個，可以嗎？

Yeah. That it's the Atrion added about $35 million to the backlog. So, we'd be in the $550 million exclusive.

是的。Atrion 使積壓訂單增加了約 3500 萬美元。因此，我們將獲得 5.5 億美元的獨家代理權。

Okay, -- Saree, if I would add one more thing to your backlog question, I know you didn't ask this, but what I would give you some color around the backlog is remember the companies recurring revenue continues to expand. Today it is, north of 55% more like 57%. And if a significant portion of that is book and ship, so you going to, put that into context while you're thinking about the backlog reduction as well.

好的，--Saree，如果我要在你的積壓問題上再補充一點，我知道你沒有問這個問題，但我要給你一些關於積壓問題的信息，記住公司的經常性收入持續擴大。如今，這一比例已經超過 55%，更像是 57%。如果其中很大一部分是預定和運輸，那麼您在考慮減少積壓訂單時也要將其納入背景中。

Appreciate that. You mentioned the impact of the Chinese New Year on 1Q, I believe you've historically put this out of $15 million to $20 million sales impact. So, would that be similar this year? And does this just get pushed to the second quarter?

非常感謝。您提到了農曆新年對第一季的影響，我相信您過去認為這對銷售的影響在 1500 萬至 2000 萬美元之間。那麼今年的情況會類似嗎？這是否會被推遲到第二季度？

Yeah, I think typically be in the call it in the $10 million to $20 million range, I think that's still appropriate and yeah, it's just timing between Q1 and Q2.

是的，我認為通常在 1000 萬美元到 2000 萬美元之間，我認為這仍然合適，是的，這只是第一季和第二季之間的時間。

Thanks. And just lastly for me, you've talked a lot about entering this year with conservative estimates, what would get you to the higher end of your full year guidance or maybe how do you think about potential upside to guidance in a more positive scenario?

謝謝。最後，對我來說，您已經多次談到以保守的估計進入今年，什麼會讓您的全年預期達到更高的水平，或者在更積極的情況下，您如何看待預期的潛在上升空間？

You want me to take that Naga? I can touch.

你想讓我帶走那個娜迦嗎？我可以摸到。

Yes, please.

是的，請。

So no, it's a great question and look, I think if from the very hopefully you get some color with -- we're not trying to call recoveries markets and what I look at the upper end of our guidance that would anticipate stronger recovery in some of these end markets. If you think of precision ag, as you think of our ATS and technology businesses. And so I think that's, if I were to look at the upper end, it would be a stronger recovery in the semiconductor and electronics markets. It would be some strong recovery in some of the general industrial and other markets versus kind of the status quo that we're seeing right now.

所以不，這是一個很好的問題，而且我認為如果從一開始就希望你能得到一些資訊——我們並不是試圖稱之為復甦市場，而是我看到我們指引的上限，這將預期其中一些終端市場將出現更強勁的復甦。如果您想到精準農業，您就會想到我們的 ATS 和技術業務。因此我認為，如果從高端來看，半導體和電子市場將會更強勁地復甦。與我們現在看到的現狀相比，一些一般工業市場和其他市場將出現強勁復甦。

Appreciate that. Thank you so much.

非常感謝。太感謝了。

Christopher Glynn, Oppenheimer.

奧本海默的克里斯托弗·格林。

Yeah, thanks. No, I think early in the call, you talked about factory efficiency gains and did you say you have inflecting efficiency gains? Just looking for a little more color on, you calling that out early in the call today?

是的，謝謝。不，我想在通話開始時，您談到了工廠效率的提高，您是否說過您已經實現了效率的提高？只是想了解更多細節，您在今天早些時候的電話會議中就提到了這一點嗎？

Yeah, look, this is as we continue to deploy NBS Next and begin to see the impact of NBS Next in our businesses and you're also beginning to see product mix being helpful where when you have higher volume products, we are certainly making them a lot more efficiently than before.

是的，看，這是我們繼續部署 NBS Next 並開始看到 NBS Next 對我們業務的影響，並且您也開始看到產品組合很有幫助，當您擁有更高批量的產品時，我們肯定會比以前更有效地生產它們。

So it's a combination, a couple of different things. It is the choice of products, but it is also efficiency of making them in a better way. Our on time delivery has significantly improved in all of our businesses. That certainly helps us with efficiency. So number of different factors, but pretty pleased with the progress we're making.

所以它是幾種不同事物的組合。這是產品的選擇，更是更好地生產產品的效率。我們所有業務的準時交付率都有顯著提高。這無疑有助於提高我們的效率。有很多不同的因素，但我們對所取得的進展感到非常滿意。

Great. Thanks. And with Atrion looks like the revenue trends are solid and growing if we prorate to a full quarter. Our EBITDA margins back in that high 20s range and then curious what the DNA is now that you've owned it and probably the accounting settled out.

偉大的。謝謝。如果我們以整個季度按比例計算，Atrion 的收入趨勢看起來是穩固且不斷增長的。我們的 EBITDA 利潤率回到了 20% 的高位，然後很好奇現在你擁有了它，而且會計工作可能已經解決，它的 DNA 是什麼。

Yeah, let me maybe give you just some broad color and then Dan can sort of take some of the more financial questions. We're very pleased, we're very pleased with the integration. We're excited for our Atrion employees, who have joined and are a big part of our story in the coming year.

是的，我可能會先給你一些大致的介紹，然後丹可以回答一些更財務的問題。我們非常高興，我們對這次整合感到非常滿意。我們為 Atrion 的員工感到興奮，他們加入我們並將成為我們來年故事的重要組成部分。

Integration going well, revenue is progressing as we expected. We're making progress around the synergies that we had -- operating synergies that we have included in our model. All of that is coming out the way we think. Maybe let Dan, if you can provide some, some of those data points that Chris is looking for, that would be great.

整合進展順利，收入進展如我們預期。我們正在圍繞我們已有的協同效應——我們已將其納入模型的營運協同效應——取得進展。一切都正如我們想像的那樣。也許讓丹，如果你可以提供一些克里斯正在尋找的數據點，那就太好了。

Yeah, and if you think of number one, appreciate the question and yeah, the acquisition is off to a really good start and performing certainly in line or even slightly ahead of early expectations, right, it's early.

是的，如果您考慮第一個問題，那就理解您的提問了，是的，此次收購開局很好，而且表現肯定符合甚至略高於早期預期，對吧，現在還為時過早。

But from an EBITDA standpoint, yes, they are absolutely. We're very comfortable in that upper 20% range right now and we also still feel very comfortable with our path towards more Nordson like margins in the two year integration period.

但從 EBITDA 的角度來看，確實是的。目前，我們對 20% 的上限利潤率感到非常滿意，並且我們對於在兩年整合期內實現更像 Nordson 的利潤率的道路感到非常滿意。

From a D&A standpoint, it's their D&A is a little bit higher than ours, particularly when you factor in acquisition accounting. And so they'd be a little bit north of us from a percent standpoint on D&A, but not materially, And then, yeah, EBITDA and -- and I think we're pretty comfortable and I'd say two months, three months in now, even more comfortable with our path towards sustained margin improvement going forward.

從折舊及攤銷的角度來看，他們的折舊及攤銷比我們的要高一點，特別是當你考慮到收購會計時。因此，從折舊和攤銷前的利潤百分比來看，他們的利潤會比我們高一點，但不是實質性的，然後，是的，EBITDA 和 - 我認為我們非常放心，而且我想說，現在兩個月、三個月後，我們對未來持續提高利潤率的道路更加放心。

Great. Thank you for that color. If I could get a quick one on ATS, the implementation of NBS next growth framework helps mix leverage, we just talked about that. I'm curious if the revenue run rate today, which was very healthy in the quarter includes any things you've kind of treated or minimized in the holistic NBS next process.

偉大的。謝謝你的色彩。如果我可以快速了解 ATS，那麼 NBS 下一個成長框架的實施有助於混合槓桿，我們剛剛討論過這個。我很好奇，今天的收入運行率（本季非常健康）是否包括您在整體 NBS 下一個流程中處理或最小化的任何因素。

So let me tell you a couple of things that the team has done an incredible job of strategically repositioning this business during the downturn. And that is why you see the margin even at the beginning of a cycle, you can begin to see a 27% EBITDA. So well positioned that way, couple of additional points that I would make that our growth framework. This is allowed the team now to reposition the business.

所以，讓我告訴你們幾件事，在經濟低迷時期，團隊在策略性地重新定位這項業務方面做了出色的工作。這就是為什麼即使在一個週期開始時，你也能看到利潤率達到 27% 的 EBITDA。這樣定位很好，我想補充幾點，關於我們的成長框架。這使得團隊現在可以重新定位業務。

We have a new manufacturing and distribution location in India that the team has been working on. That this position does really well to address the needs of some of our customers who are trying to have a China-plus-one manufacturing strategy. So we are well positioned there. The growth from that location will begin to impact in 2025.

我們在印度有一個新的製造和分銷地點，團隊一直在為此努力。這個職位確實很好地滿足了我們一些試圖實施「中國加一」製造策略的客戶的需求。因此我們在這方面處於有利地位。該位置的增長將在 2025 年開始產生影響。

The second thing that I would tell you, the team has also used this time period to really invest in new products and innovation that will position us in the growth side of the applications that our customers have. And we're pretty excited about a couple of new products. One or two of them have won some very good industry recognition. And so, number of our strategy beginning to make an impact and our team strategically using this time to really position us for growth.

我想告訴你的第二件事是，團隊也利用這段時間真正投資新產品和創新，這將使我們處於客戶應用程式的成長端。我們對幾款新產品感到非常興奮。其中有一兩家已經贏得了非常好的業界認可。因此，我們的許多策略開始產生影響，我們的團隊策略性地利用這段時間來真正為我們的成長做好準備。

Thanks guys.

謝謝大家。

Matt Summerville, DA Davidson.

馬特·薩默維爾、DA 戴維森。

Yeah, thanks. Can you maybe talk about the monthly or order cadence you experienced in fiscal first quarter, what you're seeing thus far in fiscal Q1 and any discernible trends, you'd call out pre or post the election with respect to order patterns and then I will follow up.

是的，謝謝。您能否談談您在第一財季經歷的月度或訂單節奏，您在第一財季迄今為止看到的情況以及任何明顯的趨勢，您會在選舉前或選舉後就訂單模式提出任何建議，然後我會跟進。

Yeah, again, I would say if you look at our guidance, it's largely reflective of what we're seeing in the near term on the ATS side, the four -- we said we had 4% organic growth in Q4 and I think our order patterns would tell us that that looks pretty sustainable. We're not seeing a big uptick from there, but certainly we're seeing ongoing support for that, return to nominal growth.

是的，我再說一次，如果你看看我們的指引，它很大程度上反映了我們在 ATS 方面近期看到的情況，我們說我們在第四季度實現了 4% 的有機增長，我認為我們的訂單模式會告訴我們這看起來相當可持續。我們沒有看到大幅上漲，但我們確實看到了持續的支持，即回歸名義成長。

Similar story in our other segments, I would say, our order patterns, a support, the guidance that we've given and I think the one difference year over year that we're coming into now is, we have kind of worked back to a normalized backlog. So that's certainly a factor year over year.

我想說，我們其他部門的情況也類似，我們的訂單模式、支援、我們提供的指導，我認為我們現在逐年呈現的一個不同之處是，我們已經恢復到正常化的積壓水平。所以這肯定是逐年增加的因素。

I would say this -- we haven't seen any discernible shift post election. I think it's a bit early. I think, if I were to summarize what we're hearing, I think there's still some uncertainty. I think, frankly, some of our customers are trying to wait and see a little bit to see how things are going to play out here.

我想說的是──選舉後我們並沒有看到任何明顯的轉變。我認為還有點早。我想，如果我要總結我們所聽到的內容，我認為仍然存在一些不確定性。坦白說，我認為我們的一些客戶正在等待觀望，看看事情將如何發展。

And frankly, I think that's some of the uncertainty that we're seeing in our near term outlook. I think that'll settle down certainly as things play out, but I think it's still pretty early innings and people are still trying to figure out, what decisions they should make and what the implications are going to be. I mean, Naga, I don't know if you want to add anything further, but that's kind of what we're here.

坦白說，我認為這是我們近期前景中看到的一些不確定性。我認為隨著事態的發展，這個問題肯定會平息，但我認為現在還處於早期階段，人們仍在試圖弄清楚他們應該做出什麼決定，以及會產生什麼影響。我的意思是，Naga，我不知道你是否想添加更多內容，但這就是我們在這裡的內容。

Yeah. So what I would add is, it's certainly an uncertain macro environment, you see the same things we do. And I think that uncertain market environment is really playing into our conservative approach to what we're taking to the outlook. Look, this could be -- it could be significantly better or it could be more challenging than we expect. But in general, we feel like we have taken the appropriate steps to be conservative based on what we see today and based on what we know today.

是的。因此我想補充的是，這肯定是一個不確定的宏觀環境，你會看到和我們一樣的事情。我認為不確定的市場環境確實影響了我們對前景的保守態度。看，這可能——它可能比我們預期的要好得多，也可能更具挑戰性。但總體而言，根據我們今天所看到的情況和所了解的情況，我們覺得我們已經採取了適當的保守措施。

But I'll just remind you a couple of things. The company has a very strong operating model. We have a directed customer model, we have differentiated products, high recurring revenue, diversified end markets, and NBS Next, as a growth framework is beginning to be how we run the company.

但我只想提醒你幾件事。該公司擁有非常強大的營運模式。我們有一個定向客戶模型，我們有差異化的產品、高經常性收入、多樣化的終端市場，而 NBS Next 作為成長框架，正開始成為我們經營公司的方式。

So if you combine those trends and if you look at the operating excellence, the track record, this team has had, if you take all of '24 and if you look at the EBITDA margin conversion, the incremental margins, it's well north of where we had guided in our Investor Day.

因此，如果結合這些趨勢，並看看這支團隊的卓越營運和過往業績，如果把 24 年全年的情況考慮進去，再看看 EBITDA 利潤率轉換和增量利潤率，就會發現它遠高於我們在投資者日指導的水平。

So if you combine our competitive strengths, you combine our ability to operate under any different sets of conditions, gives us confidence that the environment will be the environment, but Nordson will figure out a way to operate it and do fairly well and deliver cash and deliver strong up EBITDA margins.

因此，如果結合我們的競爭優勢，結合我們在任何不同條件下運營的能力，我們就有信心，環境就是環境，但諾信將找到一種運營方式，做得相當好，提供現金，實現強勁的 EBITDA 利潤率。

Thanks just as a follow up based on Dan's commentary. It sounds like you at least expect modest organic growth in ATS in fiscal '25. If I understood him correctly, can you maybe just flush out then what your kind of baseline expectation is for organic at the segment level for IPS and MFS? Thank you.

謝謝，只是根據丹的評論進行跟進。聽起來你至少預計 25 財年 ATS 會達到適度的有機成長。如果我理解正確的話，您能否簡單說一下，您對 IPS 和 MFS 細分層面的有機成長的基本預期是什麼？謝謝。

Yeah, we typically don't -- I appreciate the question. Yeah, I think we typically don't give specific guidance on each of the segments, but I would say if you look at Q4, it's maybe a good precursor for what you'd expect going forward, right? Our IPS business is pretty stable. And even in the medical, we've got some pluses and minuses, but, generally they're kind of holding serve, I'll call it and given some of the uncertainty in the minimally invasive space.

是的，我們通常不會——我很感謝這個問題。是的，我認為我們通常不會對每個部分都給出具體的指導，但我想說，如果你看看第四季度，它可能是你未來預期的一個很好的先兆，對吧？我們的 IPS 業務非常穩定。即使在醫學領域，我們也有一些優點和缺點，但總的來說，它們都有一定的服務，我會稱之為，考慮到微創領域中的一些不確定性。

And so, yeah, if you look at it overall, maybe that's the best way to answer your question. If you peel back our guidance is it's essentially zero growth organically year over year with the growth coming from the Atrion on acquisition and then a slight offset from FX based on current FX ranges. And, if you factor in, let's call it, low single digit growth or ongoing growth in ATS, that kind of tells you what the answer is for the other segments.

所以，是的，如果你從整體上看，也許這是回答你的問題的最佳方式。如果仔細分析我們的指引，就會發現其同比有機增長基本上為零，增長主要來自於收購 Atrion，然後根據當前外匯範圍略微抵消了外匯的影響。而且，如果你考慮到 ATS 的低個位數成長或持續成長，這就會告訴你其他部分的答案。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Jeff Hammond, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

KeyBanc 資本市場公司的 Jeff Hammond。

Hi, good morning, everyone.

大家早安。

Good morning, Jeff.

早安，傑夫。

So just on backlog, I know backlog, got elevated during COVID and people kind of stretch out -- made more orders and given the lead time issues. But just wondering, if you think this backlog normalization is largely done and what businesses, would have seen the most kind of backlog normalization, over the last year that would maybe set up a little bit of a tough comp.

因此，就積壓訂單而言，我知道積壓訂單在 COVID 期間有所增加，人們有點捉襟見肘——下了更多訂單，並考慮到交貨時間問題。但只是想知道，如果您認為這種積壓訂單正常化基本上完成，那麼哪些企業在過去一年中會看到最多的積壓訂單正常化，這可能會帶來一些困難。

Yeah, let me start and then, Dan can add additional. Mostly it is our system businesses, large system businesses. I think, even a couple of quarters ago when we continue to talk about this, we continue to see a reduction in backlog from plastic processing is one of the large system businesses and industrial coatings is the other business. And to some extent, we have large system orders in, one part of our adhesive business. So those would be where we have typically seen order normalization and it has been ongoing for a year. And you rightly point out.

是的，讓我開始，然後丹可以補充一些。主要是我們的系統業務，大型系統業務。我認為，即使在幾個季度前，當我們繼續談論這個問題時，我們繼續看到塑膠加工積壓訂單的減少，這是大型系統業務之一，工業塗料是另一項業務。在某種程度上，我們有大量系統訂單，這是我們黏合劑業務的一部分。因此，這些就是我們通常看到的訂單正常化，而且它已經持續了一年。您正確地指出了這一點。

Okay, then on polymer processing is that just a tough comp dynamic? Is that a Europe issue? I think there was a some recycling activity or something else that's hitting that.

好的，那麼對於聚合物加工而言，這只是一個艱難的競爭動態嗎？這是歐洲問題嗎？我認為有一些回收活動或其他活動正在影響這一點。

Yeah, a couple of things there. Certainly tough comps, right. Two record years of sales, but you also have a reduction in investments in recycling in Europe, as well as reduction in investment in virgin polymer production in Asia, particularly China. So, this business has been a huge contributor of our growth in the last couple of years. And now, you have the cycle impacting them and they're going to be down this year.

是的，有幾件事。確實很艱難，對吧。連續兩年銷售創紀錄，但歐洲對回收的投資也有所減少，亞洲（尤其是中國）對原生聚合物生產的投資也有所減少。所以，這項業務在過去幾年對我們的成長做出了巨大貢獻。現在，這個週期正在影響他們，今年他們的業績將會下滑。

Yeah, I think the other thing just to make -- reiterate backlog normalization. Our percentage of, call it book and bill business continues to increase with our parts versus systems mix some of that's acquisition, some of that's also, what we've been doing organically. And so we're approaching 60% overall. I think we're 57% or right around there to close up as far as parts and services. And as you're looking historically at the backlog, I think that's an important thing to consider as well.

是的，我認為另一件事只是為了重申積壓正常化。我們的帳簿和帳單業務的百分比隨著我們的零件與系統組合而持續增加，其中一些是收購，有些也是我們一直在有機地做的事情。因此我們總體上已經接近 60%。我認為就零件和服務而言，我們的完成度已經達到 57% 左右。當你從歷史角度回顧積壓情況時，我認為這也是一個需要考慮的重要問題。

Yeah, and then interventional destock, what are your customers telling you in terms of where inventories are, what's kind of built into the guide, for when that kind of runs its course.

是的，然後是乾預性去庫存，您的客戶告訴您庫存在哪裡，指南中包含哪些內容，以及何時進行幹預去庫存。

Yeah, we're -- so as I said, if I were to put it in place, I would say, it feels like we're kind of middle -- somewhere in the middle innings as far as working through the supply chain changes in the interventional businesses or product lines in particular. And so, we have some return to normalization. But we think that still has a little way to go to play out. And that's kind of how we're thinking about the year and this works its way out in another quarter or two and then we kind of get back to normal from there.

是的，正如我所說，如果我把它落實到位的話，我會說，就介入業務或產品線的供應鏈變革而言，我們感覺自己處於中間階段——中間某個階段。因此，我們在一定程度上恢復了正常化。但我們認為，要實現這一目標還有一段路要走。這就是我們對今年的想法，這種情況將在未來一兩個季度內得到解決，然後我們將恢復正常。

The only other thing I would point out on that is, why we -- we've mentioned this in a couple of different conversations. We remain very comfortable with the long term outlook and the prospects for growth in that business. And our pipeline is really what supports that. We still see plenty of project activity line of sight to returning to normal growth in our interventional solutions business, we've already seen some of our component, medical components in other areas return to normal growth. So we're very comfortable with the long term prospects. It's really just trying to pick the exact timing of how this plays out is I think what we're, continuing to work through with our customers.

我唯一想指出的另一件事是，為什麼我們——我們在幾次不同的談話中提到過這一點。我們對該業務的長期前景和成長前景仍然非常滿意。我們的管道確實支持了這一點。我們仍然看到許多專案活動有望恢復介入解決方案業務的正常成長，我們已經看到我們的一些組件、其他領域的醫療組件恢復正常成長。因此，我們對長期前景非常滿意。這實際上只是試圖選擇這件事如何發生的確切時間，我認為我們正在繼續與我們的客戶合作。

One thing I would add to that is in our interventional business, this is an area again using NBS Next, our growth framework, portfolio approach to how we think about growth, over the past 12 to 18 months, we have been investing in additional capacity in new areas of growth where there were modest positions for us prior to COVID, post COVID and in the last 12 to 18 months, it's a new product category that we're investing in. And that will help us as we come out of this stocking situation.

我想補充一點，在我們的介入業務中，這是一個再次使用 NBS Next 的領域，這是我們的成長框架，也是我們對成長的思考方式的投資組合方法，在過去的 12 到 18 個月裡，我們一直在投資新的成長領域的額外產能，在 COVID 之前和 COVID 之後，我們在這些領域的地位並不高，在 COVID 之前這將幫助我們擺脫庫存困境。

Great. Thanks.

偉大的。謝謝。

Andrew Buscaglia, BNP.

英國國家黨安德魯‧布斯卡利亞 (Andrew Buscaglia)

Hey, good morning everyone.

嘿，大家早安。

Good morning, Andrew.

早安，安德魯。

So just back to the full year outlook. So you're assuming no -- let's call no or low, very low organic growth at the midpoint, but EPS at the midpoint is still up and I guess my confusion is MFS probably margins are flat or down just given, you have a that dilute of some solution with the acquisition. ATS probably up because of, if it grows and you got costs, you've taken costs out.

回到全年展望。因此，您假設沒有——我們稱之為中點的無或低，非常低的有機增長，但中點的 EPS 仍然上升，我想我的困惑是 MFS 的利潤率可能持平或下降，只是考慮到，您通過收購獲得了一些解決方案的稀釋。ATS 可能會上升，因為如果它成長並且你有成本，那麼你就已經扣除了成本。

So you have to assume some decent margin expansion IPS despite what you're -- what's implied to be probably a down or flat or down, probably down organic growth here. So how -- I guess are you -- is there additional cost cutting coming or what -- how are you getting to such margin expansion, I guess to get to the midpoint of that EPS.

因此，您必須假設一些不錯的利潤率擴張 IPS，無論您 — — 這意味著可能下降、持平或下降，可能是自然成長下降。那麼，我猜您是如何做到的呢？

Yeah. No, it's a great question and here's what I would tell you. I mean, if you look at our sales guidance and kind of take a normal incremental, I would say keep in mind that part of our MBS Next is continuing to run the company better and we've also made some -- taken some actions in the form of restructuring to improve the cost base of the business going forward. And so, you're going to get some additional performance from an incremental standpoint year over year from those actions.

是的。不，這是一個很好的問題，以下是我要告訴你的。我的意思是，如果你看看我們的銷售指引，並採取正常的增量，我會說請記住，我們的 MBS Next 的一部分是繼續更好地經營公司，我們也採取了一些行動——以重組的形式採取了一些行動，以改善未來業務的成本基礎。因此，從增量的角度來看，您將透過這些行動逐年獲得一些額外的績效。

In addition, keep in mind we're starting the year with our debt at a high point and as we de-lever throughout the -- which we've typically continue to do that will also create leverage as the year plays out. And then you factor in the last item which is a year over year improvement in our tax rate as we mentioned in the call, I think those three factors are, are kind of what drives that conversion.

此外，請記住，我們今年年初的債務處於高位，隨著我們在整個年度內去槓桿——我們通常會繼續這樣做，這也會在一年內產生槓桿。然後考慮到最後一項，也就是我們在電話會議中提到的稅率的逐年提高，我認為這三個因素是推動這種轉變的因素。

Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then MFS too, just maybe touching on that the margins there. It seems like things are going well as of now. But we -- you probably do see margins decline or do we see that, I don't know these costs -- the cost savings and that side of things taking hold, this year or mid year to get to some margin expansion in the back half.

是的。好的。好的。然後還有 MFS，可能只是觸及那裡的邊緣。目前看來事情進展順利。但是我們 - 你可能確實看到利潤率下降，或者我們是否看到，我不知道這些成本 - 成本節約和事情的那方面正在發揮作用，在今年或今年年中實現下半年的利潤率擴大。

You're talking specific to the MFS business to the MFS (inaudible)

你正在談論 MFS 業務的具體內容，即 MFS（聽不清楚）

Yeah, just MFS.

是的，只是 MFS。

Okay. And you really, I think you're asking about Atrion, I assume, right?

好的。我想你問的是 Atrion，對吧？

Yeah, because it'll be, it seems to be diluted but not, maybe not as much as we initially thought.

是的，因為它似乎會被稀釋，但可能沒有我們最初想像的那麼多。

Yeah, it's not, as I said, they're I think in a good path in the upper 20% range on EBITDA, but below our current, but to your point, not significantly diluted. And our model factored in improvements in the first one to two years and I think we're, largely on track with that. And so I think you'll start to see some of that play out certainly next year or in 2025 but some of that will play out even into 2026 as well.

是的，正如我所說，我認為他們的 EBITDA 處於良好的 20% 左右的範圍內，但低於我們目前的水平，但正如你所說，並沒有被顯著稀釋。我們的模型考慮到了前一到兩年的改進，我認為我們基本上已經按照這個計劃進行了。因此，我認為你肯定會在明年或 2025 年開始看到其中一些情況的發生，但其中一些情況甚至會持續到 2026 年。

Yeah. Okay.

是的。好的。

Right. Andrew, what I would add is integration going well, we made adjustments in cost structures early and, but then what Dan is indicating to you for you is that our model calls for us over the next year to two is when we, completely off -- deliver on the synergies that we committed to, but we're off to a very good start. And margins in MFS are called in pretty nicely.

正確的。安德魯，我想補充的是，整合進展順利，我們很早就對成本結構進行了調整，但丹向您指出的是，我們的模型要求我們在未來一到兩年內完全實現我們所承諾的協同效應，但我們已經有了一個非常好的開端。且 MFS 中的邊距呼叫得相當好。

Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you guys.

是的。好的。好的。謝謝你們。

Yeah.

是的。

Walt Liptak, Seaport.

沃爾特·利普塔克 (Walt Liptak)，海港。

Hi, thanks guys. Good morning.

嗨，謝謝大家。早安.

Good morning, Walt.

早上好，沃特。

Okay. I wanted to -- good morning. I'm going to try one, about, kind of orders and the comment that you made about not calling recoveries in the high end, with some recovery. So what we've seen from some other industrial companies that have exposure to, kind of medical and semicon is that -- they get, sort of blanket orders or early orders in the year like it -- at what point will we know that there's not the recovery happening? Do you find it in the December quarter, the quarter that we're in or is it in the first quarter? And how important do you think, for those larger systems, are sort of early year orders that you deliver later on in the year?

好的。我想——早安。我將嘗試一種關於訂單類型的評論，以及您提到的不要在高端呼叫恢復以及一些恢復的評論。因此，我們從其他一些涉及醫療和半導體行業的工業公司看到的情況是，他們獲得了類似於總體訂單或年初的訂單，那麼我們什麼時候才能知道經濟沒有復甦呢？您是在 12 月季度（即我們所處的季度）還是第一季發現它的？對於那些較大的系統來說，您認為年初的訂單和年底交付的訂單有多重要？

Yeah, I think maybe I'll take this, it's great, again. Maybe what I'll start with is I think what we're seeing now, supports our current outlook and I think the answer to your question is as Q1 and Q2 play out. I think we'll have, a much better viewpoint on how the second half is going to play out. Yeah, it's interesting. There's a lot of discussions that are going on but there's also a lot of hesitance.

是的，我想我可能會接受這個，這又很棒了。也許我首先要說的是，我認為我們現在看到的情況支持了我們當前的展望，我認為你的問題的答案將隨著第一季和第二季的發展而揭曉。我認為，我們會對下半場的比賽結果有更好的看法。是的，很有趣。目前正在進行許多討論，但也存在許多猶豫。

And so that's generally, kind of back to the earlier comments. I think that's what we're generally seeing is just some uncertainty and a lot of plans, but those plans, today are translated into, I'll say guarded investments. And that's kind of what we're seeing in the near term. And I think as Q1 and Q2 play out, we'll have a much better viewpoint and what this looks like for the year.

所以總的來說，這有點回到之前的評論。我認為我們普遍看到的只是一些不確定性和很多計劃，但這些計劃今天被轉化為，我會說是謹慎的投資。這正是我們近期所看到的情況。我認為隨著第一季和第二季的結束，我們將對今年的情況有更好的看法。

Okay, great. And --

好的，太好了。和--

Walt before you ask the follow one, let me just add one thing. Look, this is based on what we know today and should something change like you're suggesting might be or asking, we will adjust. And particularly in the IPS area where large system orders are -- is one of the areas of concern, but ATS though the current order entry, the momentum that we see there, clearly supports the kind of growth rate that we delivered in the fourth quarter. So.

沃特，在你問下一個問題之前，讓我補充一點。看，這是基於我們今天所知道的情況，如果發生某些變化（如您所建議或要求的那樣），我們會進行調整。特別是在 IPS 領域，系統訂單量巨大，這是令人擔憂的領域之一，但 ATS 透過目前的訂單量，我們看到的勢頭，清楚地支持了我們在第四季度實現的成長率。所以。

Okay, great. Okay. So the next question would be, as we're talking about the hesitancy, the interest rates, have been coming down, right? The election is over and then are we talking about sort of the tariff issue? And that's causing the uncertainty in the headwind? Is that what those comments are coming from or is it something else?

好的，太好了。好的。所以下一個問題是，當我們談論猶豫時，利率一直在下降，對嗎？選舉已經結束，我們現在討論關稅問題嗎？這是否造成了逆風中的不確定性？這些評論是不是因為這個原因，還是有其他原因？

Well, nobody obviously is telling us or describing why they're hesitant all we are -- what we can presume, certainly that may have some impact in their thinking. But what it will be difficult for us to tell you exactly why some of our customers are hesitant. All we can say is they're talking about projects, but there is a certain amount of hesitancy, that there is going to be change in EV battery investments, there's going to be change in maybe solar, who knows? Right.

嗯，顯然沒有人告訴我們或描述他們為什麼猶豫，我們可以推測，這肯定會對他們的想法產生一定影響。但我們很難確切地告訴您為什麼我們的一些客戶會猶豫不決。我們只能說他們正在談論項目，但存在一定程度的猶豫，電動車電池投資可能會發生變化，太陽能也可能發生變化，誰知道呢？正確的。

I mean, the lots the macro environment is different and certainly leads to some level of uncertainty and that manifests itself as hesitancy in our customers. The geopolitical environment is not all that great, it's not stable environment to be in right now. So.

我的意思是，很多宏觀環境都不同，這肯定會導致一定程度的不確定性，而這會表現為客戶的猶豫。地緣政治環境並不是那麼好，目前的環境並不穩定。所以。

Yes, absolutely. So there may be a last one for me is, thanks for pointing out the a ATS EBITDA margins being really nice on sort of the bottom-ish part of the cycle. Where do you think you can get the, like in a normalized market, a couple, two, three years from now, where do you think ATS margins go or maybe another way to look at it. What do you think the operating leverage will be as the revenue improves?

是的，絕對是如此。所以對我來說可能還有最後一個，感謝您指出 ATS EBITDA 利潤率在週期的底部表現得非常好。您認為，在正常化的市場中，從現在起兩三年後，ATS 利潤率將會達到什麼水平，或換個角度來看。您認為隨著收入的提高，營業槓桿將會是多少？

Yeah, I think it's really important to remember our ATS business at 27% EBITDA is probably a best in class among our peers, right? And it is an area where it requires a lot more investment in new products and technologies than any of our other businesses. We typically invest 14%, 15% of revenues in this area and you have to stay ahead of the competition.

是的，我認為記住我們的 ATS 業務的 EBITDA 為 27%，在同行中可能是最好的，對嗎？與我們的任何其他業務相比，這個領域需要在新產品和新技術方面進行更多的投資。我們通常將 14% 到 15% 的收入投資於這個領域，你必須保持領先於競爭對手。

But more importantly, to be able to fully support your customers needs about investing in technology as they bring out new. So, 27% EBITDA is a great place for us to be. We're looking to grow here. So any opportunity we can get to grow, we want to continue to grow this business rather than expand margins. If you look at the total company, while you've seen this story for us, we were in the 27%, 26% EBITDA margin. We're now running in that 31%, 32% zip code.

但更重要的是，能夠全力支持客戶在推出新產品時對技術投資的需求。因此，27% 的 EBITDA 對我們來說是一個很好的水平。我們希望在這裡發展。因此，只要有機會成長，我們都希望繼續發展業務，而不是擴大利潤率。如果你看一下整個公司，雖然你已經看到了我們的這個故事，但我們的 EBITDA 利潤率分別為 27% 和 26%。我們目前正在 31%、32% 的郵遞區號區域內運作。

Look, you're going to be a lot more happier as we continue to grow the top line of the company at strong incrementals rather than, focused on EBITDA margins. And I take the same comment for the company and apply to ATS, right? Really like 27%. We want to continue to grow the business.

你看，當我們繼續以強勁的增量增加公司的營業收入而不是專注於 EBITDA 利潤率時，你會更高興。我對該公司持同樣的意見並向 ATS 提出申請，對嗎？非常喜歡 27%。我們希望繼續發展業務。

Okay, great. Thank you very much.

好的，太好了。非常感謝。

And we have reached the end of our question and answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Naga for some final closing remarks.

我們的問答環節已經結束。現在我將把電話轉回給 Naga，請他作最後的總結發言。

Thank you for your time and attention on today's call. We're making great progress on the ascend strategy. We are positioned really well as we enter fiscal 2025. I wish you a happy holiday season.

感謝您在今天的電話會議上付出的時間和關注。我們在上升戰略上取得了巨大進展。進入 2025 財年，我們的定位非常有利。祝您節日快樂。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。