NBT Bancorp Inc (NBTB) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone. Welcome to the conference call covering NBT's Bancorp's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2025 Financial Results. This call is being recorded and has been made accessible to the public in accordance with SEC Regulation FD. Corresponding presentation slides can be found on the company's website at nbtbancorp.com.

大家好。歡迎參加本次電話會議，會議內容涵蓋 NBT 銀行集團 2025 年第四季及全年財務表現。本次通話已被錄音，並根據美國證券交易委員會《公平揭露條例》向公眾公開。相關簡報可在公司網站 nbtbancorp.com 上找到。

Before the call begins, NBT's management would like to remind listeners that, as noted on slide 2, today's presentation may contain forward-looking statements as defined by the Securities and Exchange Commission. Actual results may differ from those projected.

在電話會議開始之前，NBT 的管理階層想提醒各位聽眾，正如投影片 2 所述，今天的簡報可能包含美國證券交易委員會定義的前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與預期結果有所不同。

In addition, certain non-GAAP measures will be discussed. Reconciliations for these numbers are contained within the appendix of today's presentation. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this call is being recorded.

此外，也將討論一些非GAAP指標。這些數字的核對說明包含在今天簡報的附錄中。（操作員說明）提醒您，本次通話正在錄音。

I will now turn the call over to NBT Bancorp President and CEO, Scott Kingsley for opening remarks. Mr. Kingsley, please begin.

現在我將把電話交給 NBT Bancorp 總裁兼執行長 Scott Kingsley，請他致開幕詞。金斯利先生，請開始。

Thank you, Sania. Good morning, and thank you for joining us for this earnings call covering NBT Bancorp's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2025 results. With me today are Annette Burns, NBT's Chief Financial Officer; Joe Stagliano, President of NBT Bank; and Joe Ondesko, our Treasurer.

謝謝你，薩尼亞。早安，感謝各位參加本次財報電話會議，本次會議將介紹 NBT Bancorp 2025 年第四季及全年業績。今天陪同我出席的有：NBT 財務長 Annette Burns；NBT 銀行總裁 Joe Stagliano；以及我們的財務主管 Joe Ondesko。

Our operating performance for the fourth quarter continued to reflect the positive attributes of productive fixed rate asset repricing trends the diversification of our revenue streams, prudent balance sheet growth and the additive impact of our merger with Evans Bancorp completed in the second quarter.

第四季度的經營業績繼續反映了以下積極因素：生產性固定利率資產重新定價趨勢、收入來源多元化、穩健的資產負債表增長以及我們在第二季度完成的與 Evans Bancorp 的合併所帶來的額外影響。

Operating return on assets was 1.37% for the second consecutive quarter with a return on tangible equity of 17.02%. These metrics demonstrate continued improvement over the prior year quarters and importantly, reflect the generation of positive operating leverage. Our tangible book value per share of $26.54 at year-end was 11% higher than a year ago.

連續第二個季度，資產經營報酬率為 1.37%，有形權益報酬率為 17.02%。這些指標表明，與去年同期相比，業績持續改善，更重要的是，反映了積極的經營槓桿效應的產生。截至年末，我們每股有形帳面價值為 26.54 美元，比上年同期成長 11%。

The continued remix of earning assets, diligent management of funding costs and the addition of the Evans balance sheet resulted in a 36-basis-point improvement in net interest margin year-over-year. Growth in noninterest income continues to be a highlight with each of our nonbanking businesses achieving record results in both revenue and earnings generation for 2025.

透過不斷調整獲利資產、認真管理融資成本以及收購埃文斯資產負債表，淨利差比去年同期提高了 36 個基點。非利息收入的成長仍然是一大亮點，我們所有非銀行業務在 2025 年的收入和盈利方面都取得了創紀錄的成績。

In the third quarter, we were pleased to announce to shareholders a year-over-year improvement of 8.8% to our dividend, marking our 13th consecutive year of annual increases. This is reflective of our strong capital position and our generation of consistent and improving operating earnings. Our capital utilization priorities focus on supporting NBT's organic growth strategies, as well as improving our dividend each year. In addition, our strong capital levels continue to allow us to evaluate a variety of M&A opportunities.

第三季度，我們很高興地向股東宣布，我們的股息年增 8.8%，這標誌著我們連續第 13 年實現年度增長。這反映了我們雄厚的資本實力以及我們持續不斷增長的經營利潤。我們的資本利用重點在於支持 NBT 的內生成長策略，以及逐年提高我們的股利。此外，我們雄厚的資本實力使我們能夠評估各種併購機會。

Finally, returning capital to shareholders through opportunistic share repurchases is also a component of our capital planning. And as such, we repurchased 250,000 of our own shares in the fourth quarter. Our transition and integration activities over the past eight months with the team members who joined us from Evans Bank have been highly successful and have reaffirmed our belief that we have added a customer and community-focused group of talented professionals to our ranks. We remain excited about our opportunities in the Western region of New York.

最後，透過機會性股票回購向股東返還資本也是我們資本規劃的一部分。因此，我們在第四季回購了 25 萬股本公司股票。在過去八個月裡，我們與從埃文斯銀行加入我們的團隊成員的過渡和整合活動非常成功，這再次印證了我們的信念：我們已經為我們的團隊增添了一群以客戶和社區為中心的優秀專業人士。我們仍然對我們在紐約西部地區的機會感到興奮。

Activities have continued to progress across Upstate New York semiconductor chip corridor in the fourth quarter, including the official groundbreaking of Micron's planned complex outside of Syracuse. Site development and construction of the first fabrication facility is expected to commence immediately with completed targeted in 2030.

第四季度，紐約州北部半導體晶片走廊的各項活動持續推進，其中包括美光公司在錫拉丘茲郊外規劃的綜合設施的正式破土動工。預計第一座製造廠的場地開發和建設將立即開始，目標是在 2030 年完成。

I will now turn the meeting over to Annette to review our fourth quarter results with you in detail. Annette?

現在我將把會議交給安妮特，讓她詳細地向大家介紹我們第四季的業績。安妮特？

Thank you, Scott, and good morning. Turning to the results overview page of our earnings presentation. For the fourth quarter, we reported net income of $55.5 million or $1.06 per diluted common share. On a core operating basis, which excludes acquisition-related expenses and securities gains, our operating earnings were $1.05 per share, consistent with the prior quarter.

謝謝你，斯科特，早安。接下來請看我們獲利報告的概覽頁面。第四季度，我們公佈淨利潤為 5,550 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.06 美元。以核心營運收入（不含收購相關費用和證券收益）計算，我們的營運收益為每股 1.05 美元，與上一季持平。

Revenue generation remained favorable and consistent with the prior quarter and grew 25% from the fourth quarter of the prior year, driven by improvements in both net interest income and noninterest income, including the impact of the Evans merger.

營收保持良好勢頭，與上一季持平，較上年第四季度增長 25%，這主要得益於淨利息收入和非利息收入的改善，其中包括埃文斯合併的影響。

The next page shows trends in outstanding loans. Including acquired loans from Evans, total loans were up $1.63 billion or 16.3% for the year. During 2025, commercial production remained strong, but we did experience a higher level of commercial real estate payoffs. We have captured quality C&I opportunities across our markets, which have provided growth in core deposits, consistent with our focus on holistic relationships. Our total loan portfolio of $11.6 billion remains very well diversified and is comprised of 56% commercial relationships and 44% consumer loans.

下一頁顯示了未償還貸款的趨勢。包括從埃文斯收購的貸款在內，全年貸款總額增加 16.3 億美元，增幅達 16.3%。2025 年，商業生產依然強勁，但我們也經歷了商業房地產收益的更高水準。我們在各個市場都抓住了優質的工商業機會，這帶來了核心存款的成長，與我們注重整體關係的概念一致。我們總額達 116 億美元的貸款組合仍然保持良好的多元化，其中 56% 為商業貸款，44% 為消費貸款。

On page 6, total deposits were up $2 billion from December 2024, including deposits from Evans. We experienced a favorable change in our mix of deposits out of higher cost time deposits and into checking, savings and money market products. 58% or $7.8 billion of our deposit portfolio consists of no and low-cost checking and savings accounts at a cost of 80 basis points.

第 6 頁顯示，截至 2024 年 12 月，存款總額增加了 20 億美元，其中包括 Evans 的存款。我們的存款結構發生了有利的變化，高成本的定期存款比例下降，支票帳戶、儲蓄帳戶和貨幣市場產品比例上升。我們存款組合中58%（即78億美元）為零成本或低成本的支票帳戶和儲蓄帳戶，成本僅80個基點。

The next slide highlights the detailed changes in our net interest income and margin. Our net interest margin for the fourth quarter decreased 1 basis point to 3.65% compared with the prior quarter, as lower earning asset yields were largely offset by a reduction in funding costs. In addition, a higher level of lower-yielding short-term interest-bearing balances in the fourth quarter reduced NIM by 1 basis point compared to the third quarter.

下一張幻燈片重點展示了我們淨利息收入和利潤率的詳細變化。由於獲利資產收益率下降，但融資成本降低，第四季淨利差較上一季下降 1 個基點至 3.65%。此外，第四季低收益短期計息餘額水準較高，導致淨利差比第三季下降了 1 個基點。

Net interest income for the fourth quarter was $135.4 million, an increase of $1 million above the prior quarter and $29 million above the fourth quarter of 2024. The increase in net interest income from the prior quarter was driven by the decrease in interest expense more than offsetting the decrease in interest income, as the decline in short-term interest rates impacted both earning asset yields and funding costs.

第四季淨利息收入為 1.354 億美元，比上一季增加 100 萬美元，比 2024 年第四季增加 2,900 萬美元。上一季淨利息收入的成長主要得益於利息支出的減少，而利息支出的減少超過了利息收入的減少，因為短期利率的下降同時影響了獲利資產的收益率和融資成本。

As a reminder, approximately $3 billion of earning assets repriced almost immediately with changes in the federal funds rate, while approximately $6 billion of our deposits, principally money market and CD accounts remain price-sensitive. The opportunity for further upward movement and earning asset yields will depend on the shape of the yield curve and how we reinvest loan and investment portfolio cash flows.

提醒大家，約有 30 億美元的生息資產會隨著聯邦基金利率的變化而幾乎立即重新定價，而我們約有 60 億美元的存款（主要是貨幣市場帳戶和定期存款帳戶）仍然對價格敏感。未來能否進一步上漲並獲得資產收益率，取決於收益率曲線的形狀以及我們如何對貸款和投資組合現金流進行再投資。

The trends in noninterest income are outlined on page 8. Excluding securities gains, our fee income was $49.6 million, a decrease of $1.8 million compared to the seasonally high third quarter and increased 17.4% from the fourth quarter of 2024. Our combined revenues from the retirement plan services, wealth management and insurance services exceeded $30 million in quarterly revenues.

第 8 頁概述了非利息收入的趨勢。不計證券收益，我們的手續費收入為 4,960 萬美元，比季節性高點的第三季減少了 180 萬美元，比 2024 年第四季成長了 17.4%。我們從退休計劃服務、財富管理和保險服務中獲得的季度總收入超過 3000 萬美元。

Consistent with historical trends, the fourth quarter is typically our lowest quarter in revenue generation for these businesses, while the third quarter is seasonally higher. Noninterest income represented 27% of total revenues in the fourth quarter and reflects the strength of our diversified revenue base. Total operating expenses, excluding acquisition expenses, were $112 million for the quarter, a 1.5% increase from the prior quarter, including higher technology, year-end charitable contribution and marketing costs.

與歷史趨勢一致，第四季度通常是這些業務收入最低的季度，而第三季度則因季節性因素而較高。第四季非利息收入佔總收入的 27%，反映了我們多元化收入基礎的實力。本季總營運支出（不包括收購支出）為 1.12 億美元，比上一季成長 1.5%，其中包括更高的技術投入、年末慈善捐款和行銷成本。

The effective tax rate for the fourth quarter was lower than the prior quarter at 20.3%, primarily due to the finalization of the assessment of the deductibility of merger-related expenses and the associated impact on the full year effective tax rate of 23%.

第四季的實際稅率為 20.3%，低於上一季度，這主要是由於合併相關費用的可扣除性評估最終確定，以及由此對全年實際稅率 23% 產生的相應影響。

The slide 10 provides an overview of key asset quality metrics. Provision expense for the three months ended December 31, 2025, was $3.8 million compared to $3.1 million for the third quarter of 2025. The increase in the provision for loan losses was primarily due to a slightly higher level of net charge-offs in the fourth quarter of 2025. Reserves were 1.19% of total loans and covered 2.5 times the level of nonperforming loans.

第 10 張投影片概述了關鍵資產品質指標。截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日止三個月的撥備支出為 380 萬美元，而 2025 年第三季為 310 萬美元。貸款損失準備金增加主要是因為 2025 年第四季淨沖銷額略有上升。準備金佔貸款總額的 1.19%，相當於不良貸款水準的 2.5 倍。

In closing, the current level of net interest income and fee-based revenues have produced solid results with meaningful positive operating leverage, supported by disciplined balance sheet management as we've navigated three federal funds rate cuts in late in 2025. Asset quality remains stable. And with our strong capital position, we are well positioned to pursue growth opportunities across all our markets. Thank you for your continued support.

總之，在2025年底經歷了三次聯邦基金利率下調後，我們透過嚴格的資產負債表管理，取得了穩健的淨利息收入和手續費收入，實現了顯著的積極經營槓桿效應。資產品質保持穩定。憑藉我們雄厚的資本實力，我們完全有能力在所有市場中尋求成長機會。感謝您一直以來的支持。

At this time, we welcome any questions you may have.

此時，我們歡迎您提出任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Feddie Strickland, Hovde Group.

（操作說明）Feddie Strickland，Hovde 集團。

Just -- and you mentioned in your opening comments, higher CRE payoffs for part of the slower loan growth. I mean, do you expect any larger payoffs on the commercial side in the next couple of quarters? And then broadly, how does that factor into overall loan growth keeping in mind the run-off portfolios?

正如您在開場白中提到的，較高的商業房地產收益可以部分彌補貸款成長放緩帶來的損失。我的意思是，你預計未來幾季在商業方面會有更大的收益嗎？那麼，從總體上看，考慮到已清算的貸款組合，這會對整體貸款成長產生怎樣的影響？

Thanks, Feddie. And yes, we have officially hurdled the 100-inch snow mark in Central New York. So I appreciate the sentiments on that. So your question is a good one.

謝謝，Feddie。是的，紐約中部地區的降雪量已經正式突破了100吋大關。我很贊同你的看法。所以你的問題問得很好。

So in 2025, we probably had $150 million to $175 million of unscheduled commercial real estate payoffs. And where do they go? Agency money and in certain of our markets, private equity or private funding, maybe the private funding more closely aligned with some of the more larger urban areas, Southern Hudson Valley and maybe some things in New England, closer to Boston, but meaningful.

因此，到 2025 年，我們可能會有 1.5 億美元到 1.75 億美元的非計劃商業房地產收益。它們都去了哪裡？機構資金，以及我們某些市場中的私募股權或私人融資，也許私人融資與一些較大的城市地區，如哈德遜河谷南部，以及新英格蘭地區靠近波士頓的一些地方，聯繫更為緊密，但意義重大。

So I think we think that that's an outsized number, but we're planning for -- that could be a risk for our growth attributes going forward this year as well, understanding that there's other people out there just looking for yield. And as rates have started to come down a little bit more, I think some of our sponsors are getting offers from agency, structures and other places that are too good to turn down.

所以，我們認為這是一個過大的數字，但我們正在為此做準備——這也有可能成為我們今年成長屬性的風險，因為我們也意識到，還有其他人只是在尋找收益。隨著費率開始進一步下降，我認為我們的一些贊助商收到了來自代理商、代理商和其他方面的優厚條件，他們很難拒絕。

Got you. And along those same lines, I mean, can you just update us on what you're seeing in terms of loan pipelines, opportunity in terms of tight geography I'm particularly curious about Rochester and Buffalo since you've mentioned them in your opening comments.

抓到你了。同樣地，您能否向我們介紹一下您在貸款管道方面看到的情況，以及在特定地理範圍內的機會？我特別想了解羅徹斯特和布法羅的情況，因為您在開場白中提到了它們。

Yes. Thank you. So across the franchise, from Buffalo to Portland, Maine from Louisburg, Pennsylvania to Burlington, demand is good. Pipelines are strong, stronger than they were at this point last year. And we feel pretty good about the opportunities we're getting to see.

是的。謝謝。因此，從布法羅到緬因州波特蘭，從賓州路易斯堡到伯靈頓，整個特許經營體系的需求都很好。輸油管狀況良好，比去年同期好得多。我們對目前所獲得的機會感到非常滿意。

We have a -- as you know, we tend to focus on things that are more holistic from a relationship standpoint. So CRE-only outcomes for us are not as attractive as something where there's real estate involved, but we get a full operating relationship with the sponsor or through C&I relationships. So no reason appears to have a real gap in demand.

如你所知，我們傾向於從關係的角度關注更全面的事情。因此，對我們來說，僅涉及商業房地產的收益不如涉及房地產但能與發起人建立全面運營關係或透過工商企業關係建立全面運營關係的收益那麼有吸引力。所以，似乎沒有任何理由存在真正的需求缺口。

I think certainly given the cost of building compared to maybe early or mid-2024, there's not as many projects underway on the multifamily housing side, which is where we tend to have a concentration. But those that are out there are good opportunities. I think the pipeline is good in Western New York in Rochester and Buffalo, I think the team is really energized. We've added a couple of really talented people to the group. And I think on a going-forward basis, we're pretty bullish on opportunities we'll see in Western New York.

我認為，考慮到目前的建築成本，與 2024 年初或年中相比，多戶住宅方面的在建項目肯定沒有那麼多，而這正是我們重點關注的領域。但那些存在的機會都是很好的機會。我認為紐約州西部羅徹斯特和布法羅的人才儲備充足，團隊士氣高昂。我們團隊新增了幾位非常有才華的人。展望未來，我認為我們對紐約西部地區的機會非常看好。

And I guess just to drill down on that. I mean, is kind of the mid- to lower single-digit growth rate a good number for '26?

我想就此展開深入探討一下。我的意思是，2026 年的中低個位數成長率算好嗎？

I think it is. And reminding people that we still continue to have our just south of $800 million, older loan portfolio that's in runoff. And we use last year as a marker for that that's moving downwards about $100 million a year. So we're seeing good activity around C&I, and we're seeing good opportunities on the CRE side in most of our marketplaces.

我認為是的。同時提醒大家，我們還有近 8 億美元的舊貸款組合正在逐步結清。我們以去年的數據作為參考，該數據每年下降約 1 億美元。因此，我們看到商業和工業地產領域活動活躍，而且在我們的大多數市場中，商業房地產方面也存在著良好的機會。

And again, we can exercise selectivity as to which ones we put our best foot forward for. And in fairness, starting in the fourth quarter, we saw better consumer lending activity, especially on the mortgage side. So upbeat that customers potentially who were thinking about moving for the last two or three years, can deal with a low 6% mortgage rate and given the dynamic of what most people have as equity in their home decide to do something else.

我們也可以有選擇地決定全力以赴爭取哪些機會。公平地說，從第四季度開始，我們看到消費信貸活動有所改善，尤其是在抵押貸款方面。如此樂觀，以至於過去兩三年可能一直在考慮搬家的客戶，能夠接受 6% 的低抵押貸款利率，並考慮到大多數人房屋的淨值，決定做其他事情。

Mark Fitzgibbon, Piper Sandler.

馬克·菲茨吉本，派珀·桑德勒。

First question I had, it looked like, Scott, you had boosted your reserve against the solar book this quarter by a decent amount. I was curious if anything had fundamentally changed there?

我的第一個問題是，史考特，看起來你這季大幅提高了太陽能專案的儲備金。我很好奇那裡是否發生了根本性的變化？

No fundamental change there. I think we were trying to kind of rightsize our coverage allowance, given that it is a runoff portfolio. So really, what you saw this quarter is kind of recalibration of that coverage ratio, but no trends or negative concerns as it relates to that book.

並沒有什麼根本性的改變。我認為我們當時是想調整一下我們的保險覆蓋範圍，因為這是一個清算投資組合。所以實際上，你在本季度看到的是對該覆蓋率的一種重新調整，但與該業務相關的沒有任何趨勢或負面擔憂。

Okay. And then secondly, I was curious how, if at all, the tensions between the US and Canada is impacting sort of the economy in the northernmost markets of your footprint?

好的。其次，我很好奇美國和加拿大之間的緊張關係是否對貴公司業務覆蓋範圍最北端市場的經濟產生了影響，以及這種影響是怎樣的？

Yes, a really good question. And I think I may have said this before, Mark, but we love the Canadians. We grew up with those people. And we have a lot of -- our customers have a lot of business that are cross-border, whether that's out in Western New York and Buffalo or whether that's up in Northern New York closer to Plattsburgh, it's a real issue.

是的，這確實是個好問題。馬克，我想我以前可能說過，但我們非常喜歡加拿大人。我們和這些人一起長大。我們有很多——我們的客戶有很多跨境業務，無論是在紐約西部和布法羅，還是在紐約北部靠近普拉茨堡的地方，這都是一個真正的問題。

I think that the Canadian customers are just frustrated, whether that means they come into the Adirondack for seasonal housing or just straight commerce. I think the unpredictability of where we've been with tariff rates and what things were going to be accessible to that point.

我認為加拿大顧客只是感到沮喪，無論他們是來阿迪朗達克度假住宿還是進行純粹的商業活動。我認為，關稅政策的不確定性以及當時能夠獲得的商品和服務都難以預測。

And I think, if I was kind of going through the underlying comments, what I have heard from people that I've talked to, is a sense of can we trust you still? And so I think that's caused hesitation and future investments or an existing investment moving forward. So problematic for us because those are not the highest areas of long-term growth anyways. So it's really important to have that connection to the Canadian base for some of our customers to do the things they want to do.

我覺得，如果我仔細分析這些評論背後的意義，我從和我交談過的人那裡聽到的是一種「我們還能信任你嗎？」的感覺。所以我認為這導致了猶豫，並影響了未來的投資或現有投資的進展。這對我們來說是個問題，因為這些領域本來就不是長期成長最快的領域。因此，對於我們的一些客戶來說，與加拿大總部保持聯繫對於他們實現目標至關重要。

Okay. Great. And then I guess changing gears a little bit. As you think about M&A, I'm curious, are the hurdle rates of return that you're looking for higher today than in the past, given that the market really hasn't been at -- enamored of many acquisitions in recent quarters and obviously, your own frustration with your stock price post-Evans.

好的。偉大的。然後我想，大概是稍微換個思路吧。在您考慮併購時，我很好奇，鑑於近幾個季度市場對許多收購並不熱衷，以及顯然您在埃文斯事件後對股價感到沮喪，您如今所尋求的最低迴報率是否比過去更高。

So a couple of things on bundler, but thank you for that. And yes, we think that -- if think about it, a combination of the Evans transaction and us improving our net interest margin, 35 or almost 40 basis points last year, has shifted the plateau of our earnings capacity from somewhere close to $0.80 a quarter to $1. And we think that's pretty noticeable. Worked hard to get to that point.

關於 Bundler 還有幾點需要說明，不過還是要謝謝你。是的，我們認為——仔細想想，埃文斯交易和我們去年將淨息差提高了 35 或近 40 個基點，這兩項因素結合起來，使我們的盈利能力從接近每季度 0.80 美元提高到了 1 美元。我們認為這一點非常明顯。我付出了很多努力才達到這個目標。

But at the same point in time, the construct around people worried about either the execution risk associated with M&A or the dilution of your attention to other strategic objectives. Not an issue for us. The Evans transaction went as good as we could have hoped for. Their folks are really engaged. We've had to put them through some changes to some of our systems, but they've really been good at bringing that alive. And I think that from a practical standpoint, they're looking forward going forward.

但同時，人們也開始擔心併購帶來的執行風險，或擔心併購會分散人們對其他策略目標的注意力。對我們來說不是問題。埃文斯的交易進行得比我們預想的還要順利。他們的家人非常投入。我們不得不對他們的一些系統進行一些改動，但他們真的做得很好，把這些改動變成了現實。我認為從實際角度來看，他們著眼於未來。

Your question on hurdle rate is a good one. We're a $16 billion bank now. So it's not so much what transaction is large enough for us to be interested in is that do we put our folks, our organization through an M&A opportunity that can't at least generate or 5% accretion? So if we're running kind of off a base of $4 a share, does something have to be north of $0.20 a share for us to really take a hard run at that.

你關於門檻收益率的問題問得很好。我們現在是一家資產達160億美元的銀行。所以，我們關注的重點不在於什麼樣的交易規模大到足以引起我們的興趣，而在於我們是否應該讓我們的員工和組織經歷一次無法產生至少 5% 收益的併購機會？所以，如果我們以每股 4 美元為基準，那麼股價是否必須高於每股 0.20 美元，我們才能真正全力以赴地實現這個目標？

Now you can look at a bunch of different things, and you can accomplish that in a bunch of different ways. But for us, it's generally been a modest extension of the franchise geographically or really productive fill-in opportunity where our concentration hasn't been as high as we'd like it to be. So still having lots of conversations. There's a lot of high-quality, like-minded smaller community banks across our seven states. So the opportunities are there. And that's how we kind of think about it from a capital deployment mark.

現在你可以專注於很多不同的事物，也可以用很多不同的方式來實現這些目標。但對我們來說，這通常是特許經營權在地理上的適度擴展，或者是一個非常有效的填補機會，因為我們的集中度還沒有達到我們希望的水平。所以，我們仍然有很多對話。在我們七個州，有許多高品質、理念相近的小型社區銀行。所以機會是有的。這就是我們從資本部署角度來考慮這個問題的方式。

Thomas Reed, Raymond James.

Thomas Reed，Raymond James。

This is Thomas on for Steve. Just wanted to start off, maybe as you guys are looking -- or as you look to deepen your presence in select markets to support growth, can you talk about maybe any planned hiring initiatives that you may have and whether those investments are already reflected in that expense guidance?

這是湯瑪斯替史蒂夫發言。首先我想問一下，你們在考慮——或者說在考慮深化特定市場的業務以支持增長時，能否談談你們是否有任何招聘計劃，以及這些投資是否已經反映在支出預期中？

Yes. And I might even ask Joe to help me a little bit on this one. So I think we believe that all of our geographies are investable today.

是的。我甚至可能會請喬在這件事上幫幫我。所以我認為我們相信，我們所有的業務區域現在都值得投資。

So I'll just use an example. We've added a couple of really high-quality folks to the team up in Maine. We have a really nice base of customers in Maine, but we never fully extended our reach from the standpoint of full holistic banking, and we're doing more of that. So the folks that we brought on board have C&I backgrounds. We've committed to a branch site off the wharf in Portland, our first true retail branch site, and we're about to make a commitment for another one up there.

那我就舉個例子吧。我們在緬因州的團隊中增加了幾位非常優秀的人才。我們在緬因州擁有非常好的客戶群，但我們從未從全面綜合的銀行服務角度充分擴展我們的業務範圍，而我們正在努力擴大這方面的業務。所以我們引進的人員都有工商企業背景。我們已承諾在波特蘭碼頭附近設立一家分行，這是我們第一家真正的零售分行，而且我們即將承諾在那裡再設立一家分行。

Joe?

喬？

Yes. Sure, Scott. Branch site, just off the wharf, we call it Bayside. It's a marginal way. We've also signed a letter of intent down in Scarborough. So building out our main presence are really important to us. And why is that? We have good quality bankers up there and adding good quality bankers to the team, which Scott just alluded to.

是的。當然可以，斯科特。分公司所在地就在碼頭附近，我們稱之為海濱。這是一種不太理想的方法。我們也與斯卡伯勒方面簽署了一份意向書。因此，建立我們的主要業務佈局對我們來說非常重要。這是為什麼呢？我們團隊裡有很多優秀的銀行家，而且還在不斷增加優秀的銀行家，而史考特剛才也提到了這一點。

Now over in Western New York, the same thing, really good quality hires across all parts of the bank. Including insurance and mortgage. Scott mentioned our mortgage results the last quarter. So we're seeing some really nice pipelines across our entire footprint.

現在，紐約西部的情況也一樣，銀行各部門都招募到了非常優秀的人才。包括保險和抵押貸款。斯科特提到了我們上個季度的抵押貸款業績。因此，我們看到我們整個業務範圍內都出現了一些非常好的管道項目。

So where are our focus areas? Definitely, New England, Maine, we mentioned, but also New Hampshire, the Greater Manchester market, a really important market for us, where we're looking for some growth opportunities with some new branches, as well as in Rochester, already looking at sites in Rochester.

那麼，我們的重點領域是什麼？當然，我們提到了新英格蘭和緬因州，還有新罕布夏州、大曼徹斯特市場，這對我們來說是一個非常重要的市場，我們正在那裡尋找開設新分店的成長機會，以及羅徹斯特，我們已經在羅徹斯特考察選址了。

We have a lot of intent that we've signed in the city and planning on moving a financial center there in downtown Rochester, as well as across other parts of the Western region. So still in targets, as well as some of our newer markets. We're excited about the prospects that they're going to bring to us.

我們在該市簽署了許多協議，計劃將金融中心遷至羅徹斯特市中心，並擴展到西部地區的其他地方。所以，這些目標市場以及我們的一些新興市場仍然在列。我們對他們將為我們帶來的前景感到興奮。

(Operator Instructions) David Konrad, KBW.

（操作說明）David Konrad，KBW。

Just had a question on the NIM outlook next year, it feels like maybe stability might be the key phrase. I'm not sure. But the great news is your deposit costs are down to 2%. The bad news is your deposit costs are down to 2%. It might be challenging to reprice.

剛剛收到一個關於明年淨利差展望的問題，感覺「穩定」可能是關鍵所在。我不知道。但好消息是，您的押金成本已降至 2%。壞消息是你的押金成本降到了 2%。重新定價可能會比較困難。

And your commercial book, now the portfolio seems to be pretty close to new originations. So maybe talk about the NIM outlook over the next few quarters?

而你的商業貸款組合，現在看來與新貸款發放量非常接近。那麼，或許可以談談未來幾季的淨利差前景呢？

Sure. I'll start on that one. So you're right. We have our net interest margin 3.65% is a very strong NIM. We can really throw off some nice core earnings with a NIM like that. We are neutrally positioned, so we've been actively managing through federal funds rate cuts over the last few months.

當然。我先從那件事開始。你說得對。我們的淨利差為 3.65%，這是一個非常強勁的淨利差。有了這樣的淨利差，我們就能實現相當可觀的核心獲利。我們採取中立立場，因此在過去幾個月裡，我們積極應對聯邦基金利率下調。

So when we think about our margin expansion, it's probably in that 2 or 3 basis points a quarter. Some of the factors that will influence our ability to reprice our book if you think about the lending side, probably our largest opportunity is in the residential mortgage book where we probably have somewhere in the 125 to 130 basis points of room there. Our other books are probably pretty close to market rates at this point.

所以當我們考慮到利潤率擴張時，大概就是每季 2 到 3 個基點。如果你從貸款方面考慮，一些會影響我們重新定價能力的因素，我們最大的機會可能在於住宅抵押貸款業務，我們可能還有 125 到 130 個基點的調整空間。目前我們其他書籍的價格可能已經非常接近市場價格了。

Another area where there's some opportunity is in our investment securities book, still have some repricing opportunity there, probably throws somewhere around $25 million in cash flows a month. You're spot on. We have very low funding costs. We talked about having right around $6 billion in deposits that we can actively reprice with market sensitivity.

另一個存在一些機會的領域是我們的投資證券帳簿，那裡仍然有一些重新定價的機會，每月可能會產生約 2500 萬美元的現金流。你說得完全正確。我們的資金成本非常低。我們討論過，我們擁有大約 60 億美元的存款，可以根據市場敏感性積極地重新定價。

Probably the biggest opportunity there is in our CD book, probably 77% of that reprices in the next two quarters. So I think there is some room, but probably not to the extent that we've seen in 2025, it's probably limited to a few basis points. Net interest income improvement is probably going to be more focused on our earning asset growth and the opportunities that we have there.

我們CD產品組合中可能存在最大的機會，其中約77%的產品將在未來兩季重新定價。所以我認為還有一些提升空間，但可能不會像 2025 年那麼大，可能只限於幾個基點。淨利息收入的改善可能會更集中在我們的獲利資產成長以及我們在這方面擁有的機會上。

Yes. And then I'll just follow up with that. A good observation, Dave, on the commercial crossover where for the quarter, new activity or new loans at a rate that was not terribly different than portfolio yields. Some of that was yield curve base during 2025. Remember that the two- to five-year point of the curve, kind of came down 60 to 75 basis points during the year when you started the year and said, hey, listen, I still got a gap between new production and portfolio yields, some of that got taken away with just natural market activity.

是的。然後我會跟進此事。Dave，你對商業交叉點的觀察很到位，該季度的新活動或新貸款的成長率與投資組合收益率並沒有太大差異。其中一部分是 2025 年的殖利率曲線基準。請記住，2 至 5 年期殖利率曲線在年初下降了 60 至 75 個基點，當時您說，嘿，聽著，新產量和投資組合收益率之間仍然存在差距，其中一些差距隨著自然的市場活動而消失了。

In a couple of our markets, we're seeing a little bit of pressure on spread. They typically are the best assets, and so needless to say, whether we're defending or seeing something new, we're very interested in those types of credits. But holding to a north of 200 or 225 spread above SOFR has been more difficult in recent months. And maybe that's just a function of market demand right now. There was a little bit of a -- a little bit of slowdown in the second half of the year.

在我們的一些市場中，我們看到價差面臨一些壓力。它們通常是最好的資產，所以毋庸置疑，無論我們是在捍衛現有資產還是在探索新事物，我們都對這類信貸非常感興趣。但近幾個月來，要維持高於 SOFR 200 或 225 以上的價差變得更加困難。也許這只是當前市場需求的體現。下半年增速略有放緩。

And then made the comment about our opportunity in -- on the CD book. CD duration today for everybody, not just us, is dam short, five- to seven- to nine-month instruments and whether we start to see some elongation from us or from others on that, so people can lock in some yields as it looks like the rate structure is more moving in a direction of down, not up.

然後，他談到了我們在CD書中的機會。如今，CD期限對所有人來說都非常短，不只是我們，只有五到七到九個月的工具。無論我們是否開始看到一些延期，或者其他人是否會延長期限，以便人們可以鎖定一些收益，因為利率結構看起來更像是向下而不是向上發展。

And lastly, I'll remind everybody that the customer used to getting the yield for the last three years. So if you're a customer with significant liquidity, whether you kept it on a bank balance sheet or moved it off, you're used to getting a yield. After going 13 or 14 years with no yield, you now know what that looks like. So I think people utilize the tools that we give them from a treasury management standpoint, and they're very smart with how they do funds management.

最後，我要提醒大家，客戶在過去三年裡一直都能獲得收益。因此，如果您是一位擁有大量流動資金的客戶，無論您是將資金保留在銀行資產負債表上還是將其轉移出去，您都習慣於獲得收益。經歷了 13 或 14 年的顆粒無收之後，你現在應該明白那是什麼滋味了。所以我認為人們會利用我們提供的資金管理工具，他們在資金管理方面非常聰明。

Daniel Cardenas, Janney Montgomery Scott.

丹尼爾卡德納斯，詹妮蒙哥馬利史考特。

So maybe just a quick question on competitive factors throughout your footprint on the lending side, would you say competition is fairly rational? Or are you beginning to see perhaps a pickup in pressure as people are looking for growth?

那麼，關於貴公司在貸款業務上的競爭因素，能否請您快速提問？您認為目前的競爭是否相當理性？或者，您是否開始注意到，隨著人們尋求發展，壓力可能會增加？

Yes. I would say a little bit as people are looking for growth, and if nothing else, a lot of defense when people have really solid customers where they're the incumbent, where they're defending. I don't think we've seen anything irrational from a structural standpoint. And those have seemed to make sense for us.

是的。我認為，這在某種程度上是因為人們都在尋求成長，而且，如果說還有什麼其他原因的話，那就是當人們擁有非常穩定的客戶群，並且他們是現有企業時，他們會採取很多防禦措施來捍衛自己的地位。從結構性角度來看，我認為我們還沒有看到任何不合理的現象。對我們來說，這些似乎都是合理的。

I mentioned before, some of our payoffs came from agency-based funding sources where, in fairness, both structure and rate is something that are better normally for the customer than what our standards actually allow for that way. But I don't think it's pervasive and we have so many different markets to be participating in that I wouldn't make a general construct out of that just today. But I will say this, if you're a highly rated company and you're doing well and you have a history of doing well, you've been able to demand a lower spread if you're interested in new money this year.

我之前提到過，我們的部分收益來自機構資金來源，公平地說，這些資金來源的結構和利率通常比我們實際允許的更好，更有利於客戶。但我認為這種現象並不普遍，而且我們有很多不同的市場需要參與，所以我今天不會就此形成一個普遍的理論架構。但我要說的是，如果你是一家評級很高、業績良好且有著良好業績記錄的公司，那麼如果你今年想獲得新的資金，你就可以要求更低的利差。

Good. And then on the deposits front, are there any markets that are better able to absorb a decrease in rates, as rates come down, are you going to be able to push down deposit costs in any markets better than others?

好的。那麼在存款方面，有沒有哪些市場更能承受利率下降呢？隨著利率下降，你能否在某些市場比其他市場更好地降低存款成本？

I would kind of frame it this way, and Annette, if you have something else, let me know. But we have such good market share in so many of our legacy markets that we've been able to do rational things as rates decline in those markets pretty uniformly.

我大概會這樣說，安妮特，如果你還有其他想法，請告訴我。但我們在許多傳統市場都擁有非常好的市場份額，因此，隨著這些市場利率的普遍下降，我們能夠採取理性的措施。

In some of our other markets where we don't enjoy that kind of a share, maybe we've had to keep rates a little higher for a little bit longer or we've got some concentration characteristics that haven't forced down the rates as fast as the Fed has moved.

在我們其他一些市場份額沒有達到那種程度的市場中，或許我們不得不將利率維持在較高水平一段時間，或者我們存在一些集中度較高的因素，導致利率下降的速度沒有美聯儲那麼快。

But generally speaking, the fourth quarter was pretty indicative of that. $3 billion of our assets reprice immediately upon a Fed's fund decline, and it takes us a little bit longer. There's a little lag there to get the funding cost down. Maybe we're a month or six weeks behind, but so far, we've been pretty diligent at getting it to that point.

但總的來說，第四季的情況很好地說明了這一點。聯準會下調基金利率後，我們30億美元的資產會立即重新定價，而我們則需要更長的時間才能完成調整。降低資金成本需要一些時間。或許我們落後了一個月或六週，但到目前為止，我們一直非常努力地朝著那個方向努力。

Great. And then just last question for me on the credit quality front. Any areas that you guys are perhaps tapping the brakes on? I mean, your credit metrics are good. Just wondering if maybe you're approaching any particular area with the -- a little bit more caution than maybe you were two or three quarters ago.

偉大的。最後，關於信用品質方面，我還有一個問題。你們有沒有打算放緩某些領域的步伐？我的意思是，你的信用指標很好。我只是想知道，你現在對待某些特定領域是否比兩三個季度前更加謹慎。

Not necessarily anything new. We have a pretty diversified book. So we pay attention to concentrations. We're probably a little less excited about hospitality or the office space, but that's not new. So I don't think we have anything that's specific emerging trend from something that we're going to shy away with continuing to just monitor as maturities come due and make sure we understand what our customers' position is and their ability to refi when that maturity happens.

未必是什麼新鮮事。我們的圖書種類相當豐富。所以我們關注濃度。我們可能對酒店業或辦公空間沒那麼感興趣，但這並不新鮮。所以我認為我們沒有任何具體的、正在興起的趨勢，我們會繼續密切關注到期日，確保我們了解客戶的財務狀況以及他們在到期時進行再融資的能力。

But also pretty well balanced as far as what our maturity, no large maturity walls or anything like that. So just navigating customers and paying attention to our industry composition, but really no emerging industry or anything we're avoiding at this point.

但就我們的成熟度而言，也相當平衡，沒有大的成熟度瓶頸之類的問題。所以，我們目前主要關注客戶，並留意我們所在產業的組成，但實際上並沒有刻意迴避任何新興產業或領域。

Matthew Breese, Stephens.

馬修·布里斯，史蒂芬斯。

I wanted to touch on charge-offs a little bit. For a while there, meaning for the years kind of proceeding COVID, charge-offs at NBTB could be anywhere from 30 to 35 basis points per quarter routinely. And with the consumer balances and wind down and coming down, should we reframe charge-off expectations here to something lower? And how would you kind of characterize normal with the makeup of the current book?

我想稍微談談沖銷問題。在一段時間內，也就是在新冠疫情爆發前的幾年裡，NBTB 的壞帳核銷通常每季會達到 30 到 35 個基點。隨著消費者餘額逐漸減少，我們是否應該降低對壞帳的預期？那麼，根據本書的構成，你會如何定義「正常」呢？

Yes, Matt, that's a good question. I -- back in maybe five or six years ago, our charge-off rates were probably somewhere in that 25 to 30 basis points. We had a fairly large unsecured consumer book with our LendingClub and Springstone portfolio, as well as our residential solar book, which is has much less of an impact. So those were throwing up a little bit higher charge-off rates.

是的，馬特，問得好。我——大概五、六年前，我們的壞帳率可能在 25 到 30 個基點左右。我們在 LendingClub 和 Springstone 投資組合中擁有相當龐大的無擔保消費貸款業務，此外還有住宅太陽能貸款業務，但後者受到的影響要小得多。所以這些案例導致了略高的壞帳率。

As those books wind down, we would expect to see more lower levels of charge-offs and kind of where we've been running at somewhere in the 20-basis-point range, 15 to 20 basis points range is probably kind of more normalized as those books become smaller and smaller. Just -- I think residential solar is somewhere in the 90% to 95% charge-off rate basis point charge-off rate -- versus probably somewhere closer to 8% to 10% with that prior book. So really, I think that that's kind of where we are in 2025 is kind of probably that new normalized rate.

隨著這些帳簿逐漸減少，我們預計核銷水平會進一步降低，而我們之前一直維持在 20 個基點左右的水平，隨著這些帳簿規模越來越小，15 到 20 個基點的水平可能會更加正常化。我認為住宅太陽能的核銷率在 90% 到 95% 之間，而之前的帳目核銷率可能接近 8% 到 10%。所以，我認為到 2025 年，我們大概就會達到這種新的正常水準。

And I think, Matt, if you think about it, that we've done such a good job in indirect auto lending and our losses historically. Have kind of been between 20 to 35 basis points. So despite the cars being way more expensive in 2026, than the last time that Matt Breese bought a car, we've held in very well on that, and the customers have performed quite well on that side.

我認為，馬特，如果你仔細想想，我們在間接汽車貸款方面做得非常好，而且我們歷史上的損失也很小。一直徘徊在 20 到 35 個基點之間。所以，儘管 2026 年的汽車價格比 Matt Breese 上次買車時貴得多，但我們在這方面做得非常好，客戶在這方面也表現得相當不錯。

Someone read to me the other day, a statistic that our combined mortgage losses from 2020 to 2025 were $31,000. So we continue to lead with that product. It's really, really important in our core marketplaces. And so many other opportunities present themselves once you're the core lender on the mortgage side. So I don't see us taking our focus away from that line of business either.

前幾天有人給我讀了一條統計數據，說我們2020年至2025年的抵押貸款總損失為31000美元。所以我們會繼續以該產品為主導。這在我們核心市場中真的非常非常重要。一旦你成為抵押貸款方面的核心貸款人，就會出現許多其他機會。所以我認為我們也不會將重心從這方面轉移開來。

Yes, not the greatest auto customer here. Annette, while you were discussing the reserve on solar, has the appetite to sell that book changed at all? And maybe I'm connecting the wrong dots, but one of my thoughts as you were discussing the recalibration there was whether or not you've been listening to bids or rethought kind of what the mark should be on that book?

是的，我可不是個愛車子如命的人。Annette，在你討論太陽能儲備金的時候，這本書的銷售意願有改變嗎？也許我理解錯了，但當你在討論重新調整定價時，我一直在想，你是否聽取了各方的出價，或者重新思考過那本書的定價應該是多少？

I'll start with that one, Matt, and then have Annette jump in as well. The dilemma we have is so much of our production was sort of in the 2020 to early 2023 timeframe where we experienced really productive, but substantial growth in that portfolio.

我先從這個問題開始，馬特，然後讓安妮特也加入進來。我們面臨的困境是，我們的大部分產品都集中在 2020 年至 2023 年初這段時間，而這段時間我們的產品組合也經歷了非常高效但實質性的增長。

And I think we all knew what the rate structures look like in the world then. So from a marketability of that portfolio, which we would move out of, if we could find something that made sense for us. But right now, it's really just a rate question. I think the assets are performing much better than most other solar portfolios in terms of loss rates and customer performance but the rates are low. And so for us to do that, would be a substantial outcome.

我想我們當時都很清楚世界利率結構是什麼樣的。因此，從該投資組合的市場價值來看，如果我們能找到對我們有意義的東西，我們就會退出該投資組合。但現在，這真的只是一個利率問題。我認為，就損失率和客戶滿意度而言，這些資產的表現遠優於大多數其他太陽能投資組合，但利率卻很低。因此，如果我們能做到這一點，將會是一個意義重大的成果。

And much like investment portfolio restructuring, we're kind of curious. If we can't find something that's got a terminal value above zero, we don't like to do it. So I think for us, we're hanging in there, waiting for the customer to pay us back and redeploy those proceeds and other things.

就像投資組合重組一樣，我們對此感到很好奇。如果找不到終值大於零的事物，我們就不願意去做。所以我覺得對我們來說，我們只能堅持下去，等待客戶還款，然後把這些收益重新投入其他方面。

Understood. And then last one is just on share repurchases. This quarter's level is a bit higher than I was expecting. What are some of the catalysts or triggers for you to repurchase stock? And is what we saw this quarter something we might see in early '26?

明白了。最後一點是關於股票回購的。本季的水準比我預期的要高一些。哪些因素會促使您回購股票？我們本季看到的現象，是否會在 2026 年初再次出現？

Yes. Great question, Matt. I said this last quarter, I thought I was going to get to go my whole career, and not buy shares. But truthfully, the opportunity presented itself. And to your point, two things. Value price, because somebody pointed out earlier, we think our valuation does not fully reflect the improvements we've had from an operating earnings standpoint.

是的。問得好，馬特。我上個季度說過，我以為我整個職業生涯都不會買股票。但說實話，機會是自己擺在眼前的。關於你提到的問題，有兩點需要說明。價值定價，正如之前有人指出的那樣，我們認為我們的估值並沒有完全反映我們在營運收益方面的進步。

And number two is capacity, right? So with our change of earnings capacity, essentially, those share repurchases that we did in the fourth quarter, a little over $10 million worth. We self-funded in the quarter and didn't change any of our capital ratios. So I think it presents an opportunity for us to follow that pattern like we did in the fourth quarter. Going into the future, and we probably have more capacity than that. But I'm saying we think we can self-fund the level that we bought in the fourth quarter every quarter.

第二點是容量，對吧？因此，隨著我們獲利能力的變化，我們在第四季度進行的股票回購，總額略高於 1000 萬美元。本季我們實現了自籌資金，資本比率沒有改變。所以我認為這為我們提供了一個機會，讓我們能夠像第四季一樣繼續保持這種模式。展望未來，我們的產能可能會超過這個水準。但我的意思是，我們認為我們可以每個季度都自籌資金，維持我們在第四季度購買的規模。

(Operator Instructions) Feddie Strickland, Hovde Group.

（操作說明）Feddie Strickland，Hovde 集團。

I had a couple of quick follow-ups. First on the margin. I did notice secretion income picked up some there. Just to clarify, the margin still increased in the first quarter even if that normalizes back down.

我還有一些後續問題需要快速解答。首先是邊緣部分。我確實注意到那裡的分泌物收入增加。需要澄清的是，即使利潤率最終會回落到正常水平，第一季的利潤率仍然有所增長。

So accretion, usually, there are a handful of accelerated payoffs or affecting accretion during the quarter, which are very hard to predict. We think working through some of the federal fund rate cuts that happened in December, the margin will probably be fairly stable, if not, maybe affected by a basis point or 2 barring any changes that are normalized accretion. So that's kind of how we're thinking about margin for the first quarter.

因此，通常情況下，季度內會有一些加速收益或影響收益的因素，這些因素很難預測。我們認為，隨著 12 月聯邦基金利率下調的影響逐漸消退，利差可能會相當穩定；即便不穩定，也可能只會受到一到兩個基點的影響，除非出現正常化的增值變化。所以，這就是我們對第一季利潤率的預期。

Okay. Got it. And then just on fees, I saw there was some seasonal activity-based fees in the wealth line. Do you have a sense for how much of the linked quarter growth was seasonal?

好的。知道了。然後，就費用而言，我發現財富產品線中有一些基於季節性活動的費用。您認為上一季的成長有多少是季節性因素造成的？

So probably somewhere around 300,000 to 400,000 was seasonal related on the wealth side. So just some activity-based fees. But all in all, a very strong quarter with organic growth, and our market helped a little bit with that. On fee income in general, there's probably somewhere around $1 million to $1.5 million of BOLI gains and other securities gains that are a little harder to predict the activity there. I think, BOLI, on a normal run rate basis is somewhere around $2.4 million.

所以，財富方面大概有 30 萬到 40 萬是季節性相關的。所以只是一些按活動收取的費用。但總的來說，這是一個非常強勁的季度，實現了內生成長，而我們的市場也對此起到了一定的推動作用。就手續費收入而言，可能包括 100 萬至 150 萬美元的 BOLI 收益和其他證券收益，這些收益的活動比較難以預測。我認為，以正常運行速度計算，BOLI 的金額大約在 240 萬美元左右。

Yes. And I even follow that up. And I think now that as we've gone to be a larger enterprise, the seasonality is a bit less noticeable for us. But -- kind of as a quick reminder, the insurance business tends to thrive in the first and the third quarter based on renewal time frames with a little lower activity in the second and the fourth benefits administration, the retirement plan administration business, usually solid first, second, third, with a little less activity fees in their fourth quarter.

是的。而且我還會繼續跟進。我認為，隨著我們發展成為更大的企業，季節性對我們來說已經不太明顯了。但——簡單提醒一下，保險業務往往在第一季和第三季蓬勃發展，這與續保時間有關，而第二季和第四季的活動則略低一些。福利管理、退休計畫管理業務通常在第一、第二、第三季表現穩健，而第四季的活動費則略低一些。

Your observation is astute. Wealth had a really, really strong year and a really strong finish to the year, and some of that was a bit seasonal, but generally speaking, we're in a really good lift off point on all of those businesses.

你的觀察非常敏銳。財富管理業務在過去一年表現非常強勁，年底也取得了非常亮眼的成績，其中一些增長可能與季節性因素有關，但總的來說，所有這些業務都處於一個非常好的起飛點。

I think the other thing, I think Annette has reminded people from time to time is that in our first quarter, we tend to have $0.04 or $0.05 of operating costs that are not usually reflected in some of the other quarters. Some of that is seasonality. It's just more expensive to plow and heat than it is to mow and air condition. So that's a basic one.

我認為還有一點，安妮特也時不時地提醒大家，那就是我們第一季的營運成本通常為 0.04 美元或 0.05 美元，這些成本通常不會反映在其他一些季度中。部分原因是季節性因素。犁地和暖氣比割草和開空調貴得多。這是個基本的例子。

But we also have higher payroll costs in the first quarter of the year and usually higher stock-based compensation expense just based on the protocol, the timing of how we grant new awards. So I think we always kind of think about this $0.04 to $0.05 carry that the first quarter has on the OpEx side that usually the other quarters don't have to work through.

但是，由於我們授予新獎勵的流程和時間安排，我們在第一季的工資成本也較高，而且通常股票選擇權費用也會較高。所以我覺得我們總是會考慮到第一季營運支出方面通常需要承擔的 0.04 到 0.05 美元的結轉，而其他季度通常不需要承擔這部分費用。

And I would now like to turn the call back to Scott Kingsley for his closing remarks.

現在我想把電話轉回給史考特·金斯利，請他作總結發言。

In closing, I want to thank everyone on the call for participating with us today, and we appreciate your interest in NBT. Stay warm. See you next time.

最後，我要感謝今天所有參加電話會議的各位，我們感謝大家對NBT的關注。注意保暖。下次見。

Thank you. Mr. Kingsley. This concludes today's program. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。金斯利先生。今天的節目到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線了。