Nordic American Tankers Ltd (NAT) 2016 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to Q4 2016 Nordic American Tanker Earnings Conference Call.

美好的一天，歡迎參加 2016 年第四季北歐美國油輪獲利電話會議。

Today's conference is being recorded.

今天的會議正在錄製中。

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Herbjorn Hansson, Chairman and CEO please go ahead, sir.

現在，我想把會議交給董事長兼執行長 Herbjorn Hansson 先生主持，先生。

Thank you very much, ma'am. And to all of you, thank you very much. I just would like to state that today's presentation and discussion may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. And I would just like to have that as a starting comment.

非常感謝您，女士。非常感謝你們所有人。我只想指出，今天的演示和討論可能包含 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的前瞻性陳述。我只想以此作為起始評論。

Let me then, at the beginning, start out by giving you a little overview of Nordic American Tankers, Limited. For us, it is important that we have a sustainable business strategy in both strong and weak markets. And that strategy is based on simplicity, transparency, and predictability. That strategy has been the same essentially since we started out in 1995. And I would spend a few seconds on explaining, the strategy the main element, expansion of homogeneous fleet, cash flow essentially distributed to shareholders, a strong balance sheet, close customer relationships, maintain a top-quality fleet, interest-aligned shareholders management, low cash breakeven including low G&A costs, exposure to the time charter market and to some extent, the sport market with a focus on the customers. And we leverage our industry network.

首先，讓我先向您簡單介紹一下 Nordic American Tankers, Limited。對我們來說，無論在強勁或疲軟的市場中，我們都有可持續的業務策略，這一點很重要。該策略基於簡單性、透明性和可預測性。自從我們在 1995 年開始實施以來，這項策略本質上是一樣的。我會花幾秒鐘來解釋，策略的主要要素，同質機隊的擴張，基本上分配給股東的現金流，強大的資產負債表，密切的客戶關係，維持高品質的機隊，利益一致的股東管理，現金收支平衡低，包括低管理費用、定期租船市場以及在某種程度上以客戶為中心的體育市場。我們利用我們的行業網絡。

I'm sitting here in Norway together with a few friends, my number two-person, Turid, who was living in America in Houston, Texas for seven years, eight years. I'm also together with, Grosland, who was living in New York for about seven years, and myself according to my passport. I have been in America between 150 and 200 times. I have studied in America and have also a business degree from Norway.

我和幾個朋友坐在挪威，我的二號人物圖里德（Turid）在美國德州休士頓生活了七年、八年。根據我的護照，我和格羅斯蘭在一起，他在紐約生活了大約七年，還有我自己。我來過美國 150 到 200 次。我曾在美國學習，並在挪威獲得了商業學位。

I am very, very pleased with the work that's going on in Nordic American Tankers. I'm prepared to respond to any questions you may have. Please be critical and please be aggressive and please ask us about anything associated with this Company. I was very pleased to see yesterday, although I don't go in the market and assess the market day by day, but our investors -- the investors and our customers, they are the two most important constituencies. And our investors were very pleased yesterday with what they saw. We had another increase on the stock price of about 4%, and all the other major tanker companies were down by a percentage or two or even more.

我對北歐美國油輪公司正在進行的工作非常非常滿意。我準備好回答您可能提出的任何問題。請保持批判性和進取性，並詢問我們與本公司相關的任何資訊。昨天我很高興看到，雖然我不去市場，天天評估市場，但我們的投資者——投資者和我們的客戶，他們是兩個最重要的選民。我們的投資者昨天對他們所看到的感到非常滿意。我們的股價又上漲了約4%，而所有其他主要油輪公司的股價都下跌了一兩個百分點，甚至更多。

What I would like to stress is that there is no other company out there like Nordic American Tankers. I did review the nine, as I said, dimensions of the company for you, and you should not compare us with anybody else, because there is simply nobody that has the approach and the strategy that we have.

我想強調的是，沒有其他公司能像 Nordic American Tankers 一樣。正如我所說，我確實為您審查了公司的九個維度，您不應該將我們與其他任何人進行比較，因為根本沒有人擁有我們所擁有的方法和策略。

2016 was a very good year for NAT. The results for the fourth quarter was $21,600 on a time charter basis, which was solidly higher than the third quarter, which is $16,700 and 2017 has started out very nicely. Where we have time charter equivalent of $25,000 and slightly above that.

2016 年對 NAT 來說是非常好的一年。以期租計算，第四季的業績為 21,600 美元，明顯高於第三季的 16,700 美元，2017 年開局非常好。我們的定期租船費用相當於 25,000 美元，略高於此。

What we do see at this time is the benefits of an increasing fleet. You may have noticed that during the last year, only during December, we added five ships from our -- to our fleet. We bought four ships from Costa Lemos, the prominent Greek ship owner, and we had a new building being delivered in early September last year, a new building from SungDong. And now we are reaping the benefits of having a large fleet.

我們目前看到的是增加機隊的好處。您可能已經注意到，去年，僅在 12 月期間，我們就從我們的艦隊中增加了五艘船。我們從希臘著名船東 Costa Lemos 購買了四艘船，去年 9 月初我們交付了一座新建築，這是 SungDong 的新建築。現在我們正在享受擁有龐大機隊的好處。

We have the best total return, which is the same as profitability, since 1997 compared with all other the companies, shipping companies. Yet again, I remind you that this company is very different from all the others. And risk management, I would say, it's very important for a company in order to be successful in both a strong and a weak market.

自 1997 年以來，與所有其他公司、航運公司相比，我們擁有最好的總回報（與獲利能力相同）。我再次提醒您，這家公司與其他公司非常不同。我想說，風險管理對於一家公司要想在強市和弱市中取得成功都非常重要。

Let me tell you that homogeneous fleet, we have Suezmaxes only, and the growth of the homogeneous fleet is one of the key success factors of NAT. We have now, at the end of this month, we will have 30 ships trading, and they have a huge potential -- income potential.

我告訴你，同質船隊，我們只有蘇伊士型船，同質船隊的成長是NAT成功的關鍵因素之一。現在，到本月底，我們將有 30 艘船舶進行交易，它們具有巨大的潛力——收入潛力。

And we have a very, very close relationship with our customers. I mentioned the two main constituencies: that is customers and shareholders. And I'm not listening a lot to what the other companies are doing or saying. But it is quite noteworthy that there is almost no mention of the customers mentioned. The market may go up, the market may go down, or the market may stay where it is; but the most important constituency is our customers.

我們與客戶有著非常非常密切的關係。我提到了兩個主要支持者：即客戶和股東。我並沒有太多地聽其他公司在做什麼或說什麼。但相當值得注意的是，幾乎沒有提到提到的客戶。市場可能上漲，市場可能下跌，或市場可能保持原樣；但最重要的支持者是我們的客戶。

We should have no name-dropping here that Exxon Mobil, one of the biggest companies in the world and one of the best companies in the world, is an important customer of ours. I have personally met -- I don't know him, but I have met Rex Tillerson, who is now the Minister of Foreign Affairs in America. And we have a close relationship with Shell. We have a close relationship with British Petroleum; and also in particular, we have a close relationship with Chinese Interests.

我們不應該在這裡提及埃克森美孚，世界上最大的公司之一，世界上最好的公司之一，是我們的重要客戶。我親自見過——我不認識他，但我見過雷克斯·蒂勒森，他現在是美國外交部長。我們與殼牌有著密切的關係。我們與英國石油公司有著密切的關係；特別是，我們與中國利益有著密切的關係。

The biggest oil companies in the world. Last year, I was personally in China together with two of my colleagues. One of them is here, Mr. Tomstad. We were in China talking to UNIPEC, which is one of the largest oil companies in the world, and talking to the Chinese oil company and also the new teapot refineries. It's very stimulating to be in China and in the Far East, and that's really where the action is.

世界上最大的石油公司。去年，我和我的兩位同事親自到訪了中國。其中一位在這裡，湯姆斯塔德先生。我們在中國與聯合石化（UNIPEC）（世界上最大的石油公司之一）進行了交談，並與中國石油公司以及新的茶壺煉油廠進行了交談。在中國和遠東地區非常令人興奮，而這正是行動的所在。

We have about 20 ships in the Far East and about 10 on the Western side. China is very important for us and also along with India. We do a lot of business in India. And that has turned out very successfully. Our next trip to China will be in April and I will go there together with two of my colleagues and visiting our Chinese friends and strengthen the relationship with them.

我們在遠東地區有大約20艘船，在西部地區有大約10艘船。中國對我們以及印度都非常重要。我們在印度做很多生意。結果非常成功。我們的下一次中國之行將於四月進行，我將和我的兩位同事一起去那裡拜訪我們的中國朋友並加強與他們的關係。

And the market has been very nice to us and we enjoyed a very good relationship with big oil. Big oil is our friends. And we prioritize them to the maximum extent. We are also dealing with other companies including Glenn core and Shell and BP and Mercuria and Chevron. We also quite often go to Houston Texas, Houston Texas where Exxon have their new shipping center.

市場對我們非常好，我們與大型石油公司保持著非常好的關係。大石油是我們的朋友。我們會最大限度地優先考慮它們。我們也與其他公司打交道，包括格倫核心公司、殼牌公司、英國石油公司、摩科瑞公司和雪佛龍公司。我們也常去德州休士頓，德州休士頓，埃克森美孚在那裡有他們的新航運中心。

I can tell you something that you may not know, and that is we were, and I was personally involved in Lightering, which is transfer oil from the big ship coming from the Middle East to a smaller ship. And we started out in 1981 with that, when I was a senior executive in another company, and if somebody should be called professor of lightering, it should be my colleague Mr. Sissener. and myself. I was the chairman, and he was the CEO.

我可以告訴你一些你可能不知道的事情，那就是我們曾經，而且我個人參與了駁運，即將石油從來自中東的大船轉移到一艘較小的船上。我們從 1981 年開始，當時我是另一家公司的高階主管，如果有人應該被稱為打火機教授，那應該是我的同事西塞納先生。和我自己。我是董事長，他是執行長。

And we started the lightering business on a big commercial scale. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not bragging I'm just telling you the truth.

我們開始了大規模的商業規模的打火機業務。不要誤會我的意思，我不是吹牛，我只是告訴你真相。

If I can mention another thing for you, we have an average fleet age of about 12 or 13 years or so and I would note that shipping technology for crude tankers has not changed very much over the last 20 years. There is only one difference 20 years ago and now that is the consumption, speed consumption methods; they are slightly different now. When you go past, you consume more oil with a 15, 17, or 20 ships then a younger ship. But except for that the technology is very much stable.

如果我可以為您提及另一件事，我們的平均船齡約為 12 或 13 年左右，我要指出的是，原油油輪的運輸技術在過去 20 年中沒有太大變化。20年前和現在只有一個差別，就是消費，速度消費方式；他們現在略有不同。當您經過時，15、17 或 20 艘船比年輕的船消耗更多的石油。但除此之外，該技術非常穩定。

With me today here is also one of my good friends and technical director who has been living in Japan for a few years, and we started out in the early 80s ordering ships in Japan. Liquidity of the stock is essential for us in order for shareholders to buy and sell stock, whenever they wish.

今天和我在一起的還有我的一位好朋友兼技術總監，他在日本生活了幾年，我們從 80 年代初就開始在日本訂購船舶。股票的流動性對我們來說至關重要，以便股東可以隨時買賣股票。

And to make a long story short, I'm very, very pleased with what you are seeing. I'm very, very pleased with having all my colleagues here and I'm very pleased that so many people are joining this conference. Again, I summarize where I started, nobody has the same strategy as us. We are a very special company with a clear cut strategy that we have been following all the time. We had the highest total return that is profitability and I'm not ashamed to tell you that I like better hundred dollars than $50.

長話短說，我對你們所看到的感到非常非常滿意。我非常非常高興所有同事都來到這裡，也很高興有這麼多人參加這次會議。我再次總結我的出發點，沒有人有與我們相同的策略。我們是一家非常特別的公司，擁有我們一直遵循的明確策略。我們的總回報率最高，即盈利能力，我毫不羞恥地告訴你，我更喜歡 100 美元，而不是 50 美元。

And the point we are at now I'm very, very optimistic about the future, based upon our relationship with big oil. They like us because we have 30 and now coming to 33 ships, and that is why they would like to do business with us. Let me also say that next year we will have three more ships coming, and that will necessitate an outlay of about $116 million, and we had paid about $55 million already for these three ships.

基於我們與大型石油公司的關係，我對未來非常非常樂觀。他們喜歡我們，因為我們有 30 艘船，現在將增加到 33 艘，這就是他們願意與我們做生意的原因。我還要說，明年我們還將再建造三艘船，這將需要大約1.16億美元的支出，而我們已經為這三艘船支付了大約5500萬美元。

So I'm very proud and I will say modest and humble to be able to be chairman of this Company, which has served shareholders and which has served customers so well. And we're going to continue on that path and I'm very pleased that so many of you have joined us and please, ask any question, any question you have about everything associated with this Company.

因此，我非常自豪，我會說謙虛和謙虛，能夠擔任這家公司的董事長，該公司為股東和客戶提供瞭如此出色的服務。我們將繼續沿著這條道路前進，我很高興你們中有這麼多人加入我們，請提出任何問題，任何與本公司相關的問題。

Thank you, Madame, who is chairing the session, or who is managing this, and I give the word back to you.

女士，謝謝您主持會議，或負責主持會議的人，我把話轉達給您。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Fotis Giannakoulis, Morgan Stanley.

福提斯‧賈納庫利斯 (Fotis Giannakoulis)，摩根士丹利。

Yes, hello and thank you for this opportunity.

是的，你好，謝謝你給我這個機會。

You know this is the first call after a very long time, that you gave after earnings, and I'm wondering if this constitutes change in strategy or a more aggressive expansion strategy? I want to focus a little bit more on your expansion plan. Last year you acquired a number of vessels if I'm not mistaken, seven new vessels, what are the plans of the Company in terms of expansion for this year, and how are you planning to finance this expansion?

你知道這是很長一段時間後你在盈利後發出的第一次電話，我想知道這是否構成策略的改變或更積極的擴張策略？我想多關注你們的擴張計劃。去年，如果我沒記錯的話，你們買了一些船隻，七艘新船，公司今年的擴張計畫是什麼，你們打算如何為這次擴張提供資金？

Thank you for your questions, when it comes to the conference call, last time I believe we had it in 2012, according to TradeWind News, which is a reliable magazine I must say, we have always a communication challenge. We are trying to explain as well as we can, in our written reports, that unfortunately, many people don't read the reports not even the first 10 lines.

謝謝你們提出的問題，說到電話會議，我相信我們上次舉行電話會議是在2012 年，據《TradeWind News》（這是一本可靠的雜誌）報道，我必須說，我們一直面臨著溝通方面的挑戰。我們正在書面報告中盡力解釋，不幸的是，許多人沒有閱讀報告，甚至沒有閱讀前 10 行。

And secondly, some of them don't understand what's going on, and it's difficult to have that written dialog with somebody who doesn't understand what's going on. And that's why we wish now at this time to have this conference again, to urge to ask a lot of critical questions, or any questions if you can help you understand what we are doing, that would be great.

其次，他們中的一些人不明白發生了什麼，並且很難與不明白發生了什麼的人進行書面對話。這就是為什麼我們現在希望再次召開這次會議，敦促提出很多關鍵問題，或者任何問題，如果你能幫助你了解我們正在做的事情，那就太好了。

Coming back to your second question, Fotis, about expansion, I am hopeful that we shall be able to expand significantly. I cannot promise and say we will expand by so many ships by that date or by that date, but now we are at 33 ships, and I would say that our objective in the first phase, not this year but maybe this year or next year, maybe we should be at 40 ships. I'm not promise anybody 40 ships, but as long as we don't have expansion -- as long as we don't have ambitions, we are dead.

回到你的第二個問題，Fotis，關於擴張，我希望我們能夠大幅擴張。我不能保證並說我們會在那個日期或那個日期之前擴大這麼多船，但現在我們有33艘船，我想說我們第一階段的目標不是今年，而是可能是今年或明年，也許我們應該有40 艘船。我不會向任何人承諾擁有 40 艘船，但只要我們沒有擴張——只要我們沒有野心，我們就死定了。

And I can tell you that my colleagues and myself we are indeed ambitious, on behalf of our customers, and on behalf of our shareholders. So, is 40 okay for you?

我可以告訴你，我的同事和我自己，我們確實雄心勃勃，代表我們的客戶，也代表我們的股東。那麼，40歲適合你嗎？

Yes, that's very helpful, Herbjorn. If you will allow me to follow up on the expansion plans, I was wondering if this expansion would be potentially new building vessels, secondhand vessels, or even if you see opportunities for expansion through consolidation, combination with another entity?

是的，這非常有幫助，赫比約恩。如果您允許我跟進擴張計劃，我想知道這種擴張是否可能是新造船舶、二手船，或者即使您看到透過整合、與另一個實體合併進行擴張的機會？

And if you can comment opportunities for expansion through consolidation. We saw the offer Frontline that was rejected earlier this week, if you think that there is room in the industry to consolidate through mergers and if your company can be one of these consolidators?

您是否可以評論一下透過整合進行擴張的機會。我們看到了本週早些時候被拒絕的 Frontline 報價，您是否認為該行業有透過合併進行整合的空間？

Let me talk about consolidation, that is a popular word out there. You know, preferably you should consolidate with somebody who is like you and there's nobody like ourselves. I know the DHT people they are first-class people, I know very well Mr. Munthe who is heading up the thing. I did know his father, who was the most impressive academic in Norway during the 80s, Professor Munthe, and DHT is an excellent company. It's an excellent company, with a good fleet and good people.

我來談談整合，這是一個流行的詞。你知道，最好你應該與像你這樣的人聯合起來，而沒有人像我們一樣。我認識 DHT 的人，他們是一流的人，我非常了解領導這件事的 Munthe 先生。我確實認識他的父親，80年代挪威最令人印象深刻的學者Munthe教授，DHT是一家優秀的公司。這是一家優秀的公司，擁有優秀的機隊和優秀的員工。

I would like to say when it comes to consolidation, we have been thinking, I can tell you, my friends, about expanding into the VLCC business, we have been thinking about expanding into the Aframaxes business, but we have so far always come to the same conclusion, stay where you are. Do what you know best and do what you can best.

我想說，說到整合，我們一直在考慮，我可以告訴你們，我的朋友們，關於擴展到 VLCC 業務，我們一直在考慮擴展到阿芙拉型油輪業務，但到目前為止，我們總是同樣的結論，留在原地。做你最了解的事情，做你最能做的事情。

We have a saying here in this part of the world, that the holy shoemaker, shoemaker stay where you are and deal with shoes because that is what you think about. That is what your expertise is about. Where we would like to go, whether we would like to go for secondhand ships or new buildings, you know, it's a difficult question. If I should respond very bluntly, I would say, I don't know. That would be the first question and I don't know anybody who knows.

在世界的這個地方，我們有一句俗話，神聖的鞋匠，鞋匠留在你所在的地方，處理鞋子，因為這就是你的想法。這就是你的專業知識所在。我們想去哪裡，我們想買二手船還是新建築，你知道，這是一個很難回答的問題。如果我應該非常坦率地回答，我會說，我不知道。這是第一個問題，我不知道有誰知道。

But I believe we would have an inclination about going for possibly secondhand vessels. Possibly secondhand vessels. But I'm not promising anything on that score. But there's one thing that is absolutely essential, they must be good quality vessels. They must be good quality vessels.

但我相信我們會傾向於購買可能的二手船隻。可能是二手船。但在這一點上我不做出任何承諾。但有一點是絕​​對必要的，它們必須是高品質的船隻。它們必須是優質船隻。

We are not -- and that is perhaps one of our main strengths that we have high quality vessels, low-cost vessels, one type of vessels. I'm referring again to the reaction of the markets yesterday, I would tend to indicate secondhand vessels, but it could be both. It could also be new buildings, people are chasing us every day.

我們不是——這也許是我們的主要優勢之一，我們擁有高品質的船舶、低成本的船舶、一種類型的船舶。我再次提到昨天市場的反應，我傾向於指出二手船，但也可能兩者兼而有之。也可能是新樓，每天都有人追我們。

I can tell you every day, even today I got a message from a broker who is coming rushing afterwards. The good thing about we are located 1 1/2 hours from Oslo, and here in this office, we have several offices, and the best thing is our confidentiality, nobody knows what we are doing. Those of you who are brokers, normally you get very frustrated when you don't know what is happening. And our confidentiality is a very good strength of this Company.

我可以每天告訴你，甚至今天我都收到了隨後趕來的經紀人的消息。我們的好處是距離奧斯陸 1 1/2 小時車程，在這個辦公室裡，我們有幾個辦公室，最好的一點是我們的保密性，沒有人知道我們在做什麼。作為經紀人，當您不知道發生了什麼時，通常您會感到非常沮喪。我們的保密性是本公司的一個非常好的優勢。

And we are very pragmatic, if I should respond very precisely, again, is that we like to make money. You know, I say it as simple as that. And it is always, we have a saying also, that you must be able to have more than thought in your head at the same time. That is a saying here in this part of the world. And I would say here we must have many thoughts in the head at the one time.

我們非常務實，如果我應該非常準確地回答的話，那就是我們喜歡賺錢。你知道，我說的話就這麼簡單。我們也有句俗話說，你的頭腦中必須能夠同時擁有的不僅僅是想法。這是世界這個地區的一種說法。我想說的是，我們腦子裡必須同時有很多想法。

It's a question of the markets, it's a question of the ship building sector, it is a question of your customers, it is a question of your competitors, are they bankrupt and check their 11 and them have been there as you know. And there are many dimensions associated with that and I simply don't know what will happen.

這是市場的問題，這是造船業的問題，這是你的客戶的問題，這是你的競爭對手的問題，他們是否破產並檢查他們的11，正如你所知，他們已經在那裡了。與此相關的因素有很多，我根本不知道會發生什麼事。

But I'm not -- I focus on two things, firstly I'm focusing on expansion of this Suezmax fleet because it's a huge advantage to have ships of the same size that keep costs down, and it is a huge advantage to have a high quality fleet that we have, as reflected by vettings. Vetting is the inspection of the ships by the oil companies, and they are very impressed and we have the best vetting story in the business.

但我不是——我專注於兩件事，首先，我專注於蘇伊士型油輪船隊的擴張，因為擁有相同規模的船舶可以降低成本，這是一個巨大的優勢，而且擁有一個正如審查所反映的那樣，我們擁有高品質的機隊。審查是石油公司對船舶進行的檢查，他們對此印象非常深刻，我們有業內最好的審查故事。

Sorry for talking too much, Fotis.

抱歉說太多了，福蒂斯。

That's very helpful, Herbjorn. One last question, you mentioned that you like to make money but you also like to distribute dividends and your investors like it even more.

這非常有幫助，赫比約恩。最後一個問題，您提到您喜歡賺錢，但您也喜歡分配股息，您的投資者更喜歡它。

Your dividend is right now north of 9% yield. Can you give us your outlook for the market going forward that a lot of people have concerned about that a lot of people are confused about the potential changes in regulatory regime and indicators of the new administration? Given how close you are in your customers and to the different policymakers, can you give us your outlook over the next 18 months for the Suezmax market and the potential development of your dividends?

您的股息目前收益率高於 9%。您能否為我們介紹一下您對未來市場的展望？鑑於您與客戶以及不同政策制定者的關係有多密切，您能否向我們介紹一下您對未來 18 個月蘇伊士型油輪市場的展望以及您的股息的潛在發展？

Well, you know, I asked a friend of mine what you think about the market. And the friend of mine, very informed guy, he said, I don't have a clue, and if I did know something I wouldn't tell you. I shall not say that we're not in the guessing business. The market can go three ways. It can go up, it can go down, it can go sideways.

嗯，你知道，我問我的一個朋友你對市場的看法。我的朋友，消息靈通的人，他說，我不知道，如果我確實知道什麼，我不會告訴你。我不會說我們不是在猜測。市場可以走向三種方向。它可以上升，它可以下降，它可以橫著走。

And if you are a nervous person, you should not be in the tanker business, then you should look for something else to do, in my view. But to be honest with you, I don't know. I know that we have had a very good start of this year, and you must remember that at these rates which we indicated in our report of $35,000 a day on an tank charter basis, where we have a low cash breakeven for the whole company of about $11,000. We make tons of money.

在我看來，如果你是一個緊張的人，你不應該從事油輪行業，那麼你應該尋找其他事情做。但老實說，我不知道。我知道我們今年有一個很好的開端，您必須記住，按照我們在報告中指出的每天 35,000 美元的油罐租賃費率，我們整個公司的現金盈虧平衡點很低。我們賺了很多錢。

And that is not fully understood in the marketplace. But let me not kill any optimism here, I'm positive to the market. When I visit my colleagues, when I visit the far east, when I visit Exxon Mobil, when my colleagues are visiting Shell, I'm encouraged with what I see. So because the Company itself, you know we are in the business and we cannot exit the business, only the shareholders can exit the business, because what have a high liquidity, but I must admit that we are optimistic by nature.

市場尚未完全理解這一點。但我不要扼殺任何樂觀情緒，我對市場持正面態度。當我拜訪我的同事時，當我訪問遠東時，當我訪問埃克森美孚時，當我的同事訪問殼牌時，我對所看到的感到鼓舞。所以因為公司本身，你知道我們在做生意，我們不能退出這個業務，只有股東可以退出這個業務，因為流動性很高，但我必須承認我們本質上是樂觀的。

And we have been around for a long while. I started out I'm almost ashamed to tell you in 1974. After graduation from Norway, and afterwards I learned a little bit more also from studies in America, but I feel good about it, Fotis, that is it. And if you are nervous, find something else to do.

我們已經存在很長一段時間了。1974 年，我幾乎羞於告訴你。從挪威畢業後，後來在美國學習也學到了一些東西，但我感覺很好，Fotis，僅此而已。如果你感到緊張，那就找點別的事做。

Thank you very much. That's been very helpful.

非常感謝。這非常有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Mike Webber, Wells Fargo.

麥克韋伯，富國銀行。

Good morning, guys. How are you?

早安，夥計們。你好嗎？

Doing fine, thank you, and how are you?

很好，謝謝你，你好嗎？

I am good. I am good.

我很好。我很好。

Thanks for hosting the call. I wanted to backtrack a bit and just maybe get a bit more specific with some of the I guess some of the questions, specifically around the call. This the first one since 2012 and is something you guys expect to continue to do in the future?

感謝您主持此通話。我想回溯一下，也許可以更具體地回答一些我猜的一些問題，特別是圍繞著電話會議的問題。這是自 2012 年以來的第一次，你們希望未來繼續這樣做嗎？

I don't know.

我不知道。

Okay. In terms of the dividends, you're looking at expanding next year. That seems open ended. You've got a modest degree of leverage that you're using in part to help fund the dividends in kind of a countercyclical way. Is that dividend something you would expect to continue at or near the current level even while you are expanding?

好的。就股息而言，您希望明年擴大股息。這似乎是開放式的。你擁有一定程度的槓桿，部分是為了以反週期的方式為股息提供資金。即使您在擴張，您是否希望股息繼續保持或接近當前水平？

Let me talk to you about the dividend. Last time the dividend was $0.26 and now the dividend is $0.20, but last time there was at one-time income of about $5 million or something like that associated with the conclusion of a discussion we had litigation in Dubai. So if you take away that one-time thing, the dividend last time was $0.21, so in reality, the dividend has gone down from $0.21 to $0.20.

我來和你談股息的事。上次股息是 0.26 美元，現在股息是 0.20 美元，但上次我們在迪拜提起訴訟，一次性收入約為 500 萬美元或類似的金額。所以，如果你去掉一次性的東西，上次的股息是 0.21 美元，所以實際上，股息已經從 0.21 美元下降到 0.20 美元。

On a more general question, we will and shall do our utmost to pay dividends all the time. Dividend is a reflection of our focus on shareholders and investors, that's extremely important for us. I cannot envisage that we should not pay dividends, you know. Of course it depends on the future market, but as it stands now, we will pay dividend.

在一個更普遍的問題上，我們將並且將會盡最大努力始終支付紅利。股息反映了我們對股東和投資者的關注，這對我們來說極為重要。你知道，我無法想像我們不應該支付股息。當然這取決於未來的市場，但就目前的情況來看，我們會派息。

Whether the dividend goes up or goes down, or stays where it is, it's a different question. I couldn't tell you and I don't think anyone else could tell you either, simply because we don't know what the market. To put it differently, we will now pay our new buildings, we will which is important, we may do more business and what I can promise is one thing, we will do everything we can to keep dividends, to keep the dividend.

股息是上升還是下降，還是保持不變，這是一個不同的問題。我無法告訴你，我認為其他人也無法告訴你，只是因為我們不知道市場是什麼。換句話說，我們現在將為我們的新建築支付費用，這很重要，我們可能會做更多的業務，我可以承諾的是一件事，我們將盡一切努力保持股息，保持股息。

Whether it goes up, goes down, or sideways, is a different question. But we shall pay dividends as long as I'm the Chairman of this Company, and I warn you that can be pretty long.

至於它是上漲、下跌還是橫盤，則是另一個問題了。但只要我還是這家公司的董事長，我們就會支付股息，我警告你，這可能會很長。

That makes sense and was a good answer. Just to go back again to the growth strategy, to make sure I'm clear on this, you're looking at a standing into other asset classes, but you want to stay within crude. Did I get that correct? You mentioned being the best good shoemaker staying a good shoemaker, but we're talking the difference between shoes and sandals, here, we're not talking to building a car. So would you be looking at these and avarice the secondhand market as well?

這是有道理的，也是一個很好的答案。再次回到成長策略，為了確保我清楚這一點，你正在考慮其他資產類別的地位，但你希望保持在原油水準。我說得對嗎？你提到成為最好的鞋匠並保持一個優秀的鞋匠，但我們談論的是鞋子和涼鞋之間的區別，在這裡，我們不是在談論製造汽車。那麼您會在關注這些產品的同時也貪婪地進入二手市場嗎？

To be blunt about it, I would rate that probability as very low.

坦白說，我認為這種可能性非常低。

Okay.

好的。

It's very low. But you know what I say what we need yesterday, it's not the thing that you need tomorrow, but the probability is low. And therefore, we are like the shoemaker, we stay with our own business.

這是非常低的。但你知道我說我們昨天需要的東西，不是你明天需要的東西，但是機率很低。因此，我們就像鞋匠一樣，只做自己的生意。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

Around M&A in the space, I know what to look at NAV but within -- humor me, within the context of the equity markets today would you pay above NAV for a public entity, where you can add scale and acquire those assets quickly, given that your currency is at such a large premium and you could make that math work in a big way, when a number of your competitors can't.

圍繞該領域的併購，我知道如何看待資產淨值，但在當今的股票市場背景下，您是否會為公共實體支付高於資產淨值的費用，在該實體中，您可以擴大規模并快速收購這些資產，因為你的貨幣溢價如此之大，你可以讓數學發揮很大作用，而你的許多競爭對手卻做不到。

NAV has no relevance. It has absolutely no relevance, we are not the scrap dealer. When I'm talking to the senior guys of Exxon Mobil, they don't say, we don't like your NAV. NAV on the ships 17 is too low and NAV 35 is too high --

資產淨值沒有相關性。這完全沒有關係，我們不是廢品經銷商。當我與埃克森美孚的高層交談時，他們不會說，我們不喜歡你們的淨值。17 號艦的 NAV 太低，NAV 35 太高——

If you were going to look at a fleet, what valuation metric would you use?

如果您要檢視一支車隊，您會使用什麼估價指標？

I would look upon the valuation of the ship and if you can finance it with our good currency at a price that could be very advantageous, very advantageous.

我會考慮這艘船的估價，如果你能用我們良好的貨幣以非常有利的價格融資它，非常有利。

Okay, so the market value of the asset less the debt on the asset right. So would you pay -- if you look at that for fleets on the market right now for public fleets, would you pay -- basically would you pay a premium, a slight premium to be able to add that scale quickly? It's a big topic in the market right now and I think you kind of know what I'm getting at. But you have a currency that is that you can use that affords you flexibility that many others don't. So I'm just curious, how much do you value the ability to add scale?

好的，資產的市場價值減去資產權上的債務。那麼你會支付——如果你看看現在市場上公共車隊的車隊情況，你會支付——基本上你會支付溢價，稍微溢價才能快速擴大規模嗎？這是目前市場上的一個大話題，我想您已經知道我的意思了。但你擁有一種可以使用的貨幣，它為你提供了許多其他貨幣所沒有的靈活性。所以我很好奇，您對擴大規模的能力有多重視？

Let me reflect on it. When you go into a shop to buy a suit, you may not know the price of that suit when you get in there, but when you get in, you can start negotiating with the shopkeeper. And the point I'm making is if it is thus increase the value then we would do it. If it doesn't increase the value, we would not do it. What I do see in this business is that earnings per share don't take account of risk management.

讓我反思一下。當你去商店買一套西裝時，你進去的時候可能不知道那套西裝的價格，但是當你進去的時候，你就可以開始和店主討價還價。我想說的是，如果它能夠增加價值，那我們就會這麼做。如果它不能增加價值，我們就不會這麼做。我在這個行業中看到的是，每股盈餘沒有考慮風險管理。

We're talking about Lambert IRR and IRR, I was on the Board of a big company at one time, and I said I was 12 years and stepped out after I discovered that they couldn't calculate. Because they said, we can increase the IRR that needs return on equity, it's only to borrow more money, and we see how it goes when you borrow more money.

我們說的是Lambert IRR和IRR，我曾經是一家大公司的董事會成員，我說我12歲了，發現他們不會計算後就退出了。因為他們說，我們可以提高需要股本回報率的IRR，只是藉更多的錢，當你借更多的錢時，我們看看情況如何。

And also without going into the economics here, the left-hand side of the balance sheet, is the asset side. And the question how much money you make, and on the right-hand side, is the financing side, in this business many observers mix up the asset side and the financing side. They are two separate items, but my point is in summary, we are very pragmatic and we would prefer to buy assets instead of buying companies.

同樣，在不涉及經濟學的情況下，資產負債表的左側是資產方。你賺多少錢的問題，在右邊，是融資方面，在這個行業，許多觀察家混淆了資產方面和融資方面。它們是兩個獨立的項目，但我的觀點是，我們非常務實，我們更願意購買資產而不是購買公司。

That's very helpful. But one more for me and I'll turn it over. Along those lines and you mentioned the debt and how overleveraged the space can be, your leverage is increasing modestly at times as you're paying out a dividend, even through kind of tough quarters.

這非常有幫助。但再給我一份，我會把它翻過來。沿著這些思路，你提到了債務以及該領域的槓桿率有多高，當你支付股息時，你的槓桿率有時會適度增加，即使是在艱難的季度。

And the counter cyclical nature of that policy makes sense to us to a degree. At some point there is a limit to it. How far would you push your leverage, where would that threshold be before you would not be able to do that?

該政策的反週期性質在某種程度上對我們來說是有意義的。在某些時候它是有限制的。你會把你的槓桿作用推到什麼程度，在你無法做到這一點之前，門檻在哪裡？

We are very conservative, I've not seen a banker as conservative as we are. So I may have to ask you what you think, but you don't charter ships you know and you don't own ships you know.

我們非常保守，我還沒有見過像我們這樣保守的銀行家。所以我可能不得不問你的想法，但你不會租用你知道的船隻，你也不擁有你知道的船隻。

Unfortunately that's true.

不幸的是，這是真的。

This is a question of judgment. It is a question of judgment. I'm going to give a speech tomorrow evening, I seldom do that, to some of the top bankers in Norway, which is called the risk management international business.

這是一個判斷力的問題。這是一個判斷問題。明天晚上我要向挪威的一些頂尖銀行家發表演講，我很少這樣做，這被稱為風險管理國際業務。

I will not give you a percentage leverage, but I have seen in 1987, the equity in the Norwegian shipping was zero. Some of the big names were bankrupt. We have seen recently that companies have come into trouble, Chapter 11. We pioneered the transportation sector in America.

我不會給你一個槓桿百分比，但我看到在1987年，挪威航運的股本為零。一些大牌企業破產了。我們最近看到一些公司陷入了麻煩，第 11 章。我們是美國運輸業的先驅。

When we became listed in 1995, with the help of (inaudible) brothers and with the help of DNB, the big financing institution in Norway. And we have always been careful because I've seen ship owners go bankrupt all the time. And we will grow with low level of debt. That is a starting --

當我們1995年上市時，在（聽不清楚）兄弟的幫助下，在挪威大型金融機構DNB的幫助下。我們一直很小心，因為我一直看到船東破產。我們將以低債務水準實現成長。那是一個開始——

There is no redline at 40%, 50% leverage is there a line to get your attention?

40%、50%槓桿沒有紅線，有一條線可以吸引您的注意嗎？

Low, low. I would like to have 80% equity or even more you know, depends on our pricing.

低，低。我想要 80% 的股權，甚至更多，這取決於我們的定價。

Okay.

好的。

We have followed our strategy since 1997, and that strategy has been very helpful and very effective.

我們自 1997 年以來一直遵循我們的策略，該策略非常有幫助且非常有效。

That's true. That's absolutely true. I appreciate the time. I will hop back in the queue and let someone else have a chance. Thank you, guys.

這是真的。這絕對是真的。我很感激時間。我會跳回隊列中，讓其他人有機會。謝謝你們，夥計們。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Magnus Fyhr, Seaport Global.

馬格努斯·菲爾，海港全球公司。

Herbjorn, thanks for putting on the call. Hopefully this is something we can look forward to every quarter.

Herbjorn，感謝您撥通電話。希望這是我們每季都可以期待的事情。

I would remind the audience that Magnus is from Sweden, and my grandfather is from Sweden. Please continue, Magnus.

我想提醒觀眾，馬格努斯來自瑞典，我的祖父也來自瑞典。請繼續，馬格努斯。

I don't think we are related, Herbjorn.

我不認為我們有血緣關係，赫比約恩。

I don't think so.

我不這麼認為。

Except we are both Swedish extraction. Anyway, Herbjorn, most my questions have been answered, but a couple of things that I just want to key in on. Follow-up on Michael's question here on the debt level. You talked about being debt averse, but I just not specifically saying a level, but what's your plan for the next four ships that are coming on, is that going to be financed with debt, or how do you see financing those new ships remaining?

只不過我們都是瑞典血統。無論如何，Herbjorn，我的大部分問題都已得到解答，但有幾件事我只想強調一下。跟進邁克爾關於債務水平的問題。你談到了厭惡債務，但我只是沒有具體說一個水平，但是你對接下來即將開工的四艘船的計劃是什麼，是否將通過債務融資，或者你如何看待為剩下的新船提供融資？

The first of it is coming at the end of February. We will pay $32 million for that ship, and then three more ships are coming next year, in June, September and October. And they will, we have earnings going forward in the strong market, we will accumulate a lot of cash and in a weak market it's different. We don't plan for an offering to pay for these three ships.

第一個將於二月底到來。我們將為這艘船支付 3,200 萬美元，然後明年 6 月、9 月和 10 月還會有另外三艘船到來。他們會的，我們在強勁的市場中將獲得盈利，我們將積累大量現金，而在疲軟的市場中情況就不同了。我們不打算提供資金來支付這三艘船的費用。

But I was talking to you earlier about these expansion plans, and it is important to understand that of course somehow you must pay when you expand you know. So either we have the bank help us, we have the market help us, and our overall strategy. But we will be conservative. That is an important thing to remember because I've seen in this business, that people have expanded too quickly. Ship owners have a bad tendency to go bankrupt, and I know the breed from 40 or more years back.

但我之前曾與您討論過這些擴展計劃，重要的是要了解，當然，當您擴展時，您必須以某種方式付費，您知道。因此，要麼讓銀行幫助我們，要麼讓市場幫助我們，還有我們的整體策略。但我們會保守。這是一件需要記住的重要事情，因為我在這個行業中看到，人們擴張得太快了。船東很容易破產，我在 40 多年前就知道這種情況了。

And we will, as I indicated earlier, I wouldn't say if we expand, but when we expand, it will be done with a low level of debt. And I indicated to you, depending upon our judgment, I like equity of 80% or even more. I've seen so many people go bankrupt, and I'm not nervous because I know for a fact that we are not going into debt trap. The problem with ship owners is that they become overly optimistic. That we have seen over and over and over again, that is when greediness exceeds intelligence.

正如我之前指出的，我不會說我們是否會擴張，但當我們擴張時，將以較低的債務水平來完成。我向你表示，根據我們的判斷，我喜歡 80% 甚至更多的股權。我見過很多人破產，但我並不緊張，因為我知道我們不會陷入債務陷阱。船東的問題在於他們變得過於樂觀。我們已經一次又一次地看到，那就是貪婪超過了智慧。

All right. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Thanks, Magnus.

謝謝，馬格努斯。

Thank you for that answer. Maybe you could help me understand the focus on the Suezmax market. We've seen rates come down quite a bit here in the last couple of weeks. Do you think the relationship between VLCC and Suezmax, it's been widening quite a bit here, is that something structural or do you think this is just a temporary --?

謝謝你的回答。也許你可以幫助我了解對蘇伊士型油輪市場的關注。在過去的幾周里，我們看到這裡的利率下降了很多。你認為VLCC和蘇伊士型油輪之間的關係已經擴大了很多，這是結構性的還是你認為這只是暫時的？

It is not structural at all. As we say in our report the Suezmax market has been very strong this year, very strong, and now it varies almost from day to day, but our focus on customers is helping us a lot. And it is not at all structural, but of course we understand that the Suezmax can load 50% of VLCC.

它根本不是結構性的。正如我們在報告中所說，今年蘇伊士型油輪市場非常強勁，非常強勁，現在幾乎每天都在變化，但我們對客戶的關注對我們幫助很大。而且它根本不是結構性的，但我們當然知道Suezmax可以裝載50%的VLCC。

And we see split of cargoes taking place in West Africa, in Angola, above all and other places. And we see it in Singapore also, Suezmax is 1 million barrel ship and the VLCCs are 2 million barrels you know. So my anticipation though is there is more risk associated with VLCC than the Suezmax, so if you have a strong heart you should go for VLCCs. We're careful people.

我們看到貨物在西非、安哥拉，尤其是其他地方發生了分裂。我們在新加坡也看到了這一點，蘇伊士型油輪是 100 萬桶的船，而 VLCC 是 200 萬桶的船，你知道。因此，我的預期是，與蘇伊士型油輪相比，VLCC 的風險更大，所以如果你有一顆堅強的心，你應該選擇 VLCC。我們是細心的人。

All right, one last question, Herbjorn, and I'll let you go. The current market, let's call it 20,000 or less, at that level you generate about $1 per share in cash flow. The market outlook, I mean it's somewhat challenging I think in 2017, if rates don't improve from current levels, would you be consider financing these new buildings with all debt, up to 50%-60%, or would you address the dividend?

好吧，最後一個問題，赫比約恩，我就讓你走了。目前的市場，我們稱之為 20,000 或更低，在這個水平上，你每股產生大約 1 美元的現金流。市場前景，我的意思是，我認為2017年有點具有挑戰性，如果利率沒有從目前的水平改善，你會考慮用所有債務為這些新建築融資，高達50%-60%，還是會解決股息問題？

It depends what will be paid for the first new building. We pay for cash on hand. You know, at the end of this month you know, and you cannot answer that question because there are so many variables before that, but again, we'll see.

這取決於第一棟新建築的費用。我們用現有現金支付。你知道，到了這個月底你就知道了，你無法回答這個問題，因為在那之前還有很多變數，但我們還是拭目以待吧。

As Chairman of this Company I simply don't know the answers to the future because, as I said, if I did know the answer, I wouldn't told you because then any business would be easy if you know the answer to the future you know. But that's why I'm excited to live you don't know the answers. But generally speaking, we are very pragmatic and we are very clever also at changing our mind about what to do and not to do, that's important.

身為這家公司的董事長，我根本不知道未來的答案，因為正如我所說，如果我確實知道答案，我不會告訴你，因為如果你知道未來的答案，那麼任何生意都會變得容易你知道。但這就是為什麼我很高興生活在你不知道答案的情況下。但總的來說，我們非常務實，我們也非常善於改變該做什麼、不該做什麼的想法，這很重要。

But my conclusion on these various questions is we wish to stick with Suezmax. I would rate probability of the VLCC is another thing. We have started out very well this year, I saw a number of reports that my friend here working in New York for a number of years, there was no mention of the customers at all, you know. And that is quite amazing in my view because the customers and the shareholders, they are the most important constituencies in our business.

但我對這些不同問題的結論是我們希望堅持使用蘇伊士型油輪。我認為 VLCC 的機率是另一回事。今年我們開局很好，我看到很多報道說我的朋友在紐約工作了很多年，根本沒有提到客戶，你知道。在我看來，這是相當驚人的，因為客戶和股東是我們業務中最重要的支持者。

But we are optimistic about all this, and we enjoy this. I had a question whether we should do it more, if you enjoyed it and we enjoyed it, then we will probably do it more. But if you say in your ordering written materials, that guy, he's stupid, we cannot listen to him. Then I will not do it more.

但我們對這一切感到樂觀，並且享受這一切。我有一個問題，我們是否應該做得更多，如果你喜歡它，我們也喜歡它，那麼我們可能會做得更多。但是如果你在訂購的書面資料中說，那個人，他很笨，我們就不能聽他的。那我就不多做了。

If it's one recommendation I would give you is to keep this call on a quarterly basis, it's been very entertaining.

如果我給你的一個建議是每季舉行一次電話會議，那是非常有趣的。

Thank you. I like free advice. Thank you for saying so.

謝謝。我喜歡免費的建議。謝謝你這麼說。

Greg Lewis, Credit Suisse.

格雷格·劉易斯，瑞士信貸。

Yes, thank you, and good afternoon. Herbjorn, I would just reiterate Magnus's advice, it's been enjoyable. I guess my question is more related to the fleet. I mean you talk about expansion, just thinking about that you do have a handful or maybe a little bit more than a handful of vessels that are a little bit older, approaching the 20-year range where there can be some discrimination for those vessels in the market.

是的，謝謝，下午好。Herbjorn，我只想重申 Magnus 的建議，這很令人愉快。我想我的問題與艦隊更相關。我的意思是，你談論擴張，只是想一想，你確實有少數幾艘或可能比幾艘稍微老一點的船隻，接近20 年的範圍，在這種情況下，這些船隻可能會受到一些歧視。

We don't see that. But if you see it in your fleet, you know please tell us, but we don't see that.

我們沒有看到這一點。但如果您在您的機隊中看到它，請告訴我們，但我們看不到。

Hope --

希望 -

That's not true.

那不是真的。

Okay. So then as we think about those older vessels that are in the 20-year range, we should expect those to go into -- so for those vessels, as we think about it, how much should we think the special survey costs on those asset should be?

好的。因此，當我們考慮那些 20 年範圍內的舊船時，我們應該預期它們會進入 - 因此，對於這些船舶，正如我們所考慮的那樣，我們應該考慮對這些資產進行多少特別調查成本應該是？

As we have said repeatedly, they are almost all the same. The price of docking a ship which is 3 years is essentially the same as docking a ship which is 15 years. I have the table in front of me. Crew expenses, provisions, stores, spares, service and service repairs, safety and risk insurance, administration, because there is notion out there that older ships are more expensive. That's not true. It's not true.

正如我們一再說過的，它們幾乎都是一樣的。停泊3年的船舶的價格與停泊15年的船舶的價格基本相同。我面前有桌子。船員費用、給養、物資、備件、服務和服務維修、安全和風險保險、管理，因為人們認為舊船更貴。那不是真的。這不是真的。

And we're running the biggest fleet of them also, so we know this. And I have the piece of paper in front of me. Coming back to the question, Exxon Mobil, let's graph the Jones act ship just months or two or three ago of 38 years. 38 years. I'm not saying going on 38 years at all.

我們也經營最大的車隊，所以我們知道這一點。我面前有一張紙。回到這個問題，埃克森美孚，讓我們來繪製一下 38 年前幾個月或兩三年前的瓊斯法案船舶。38歲。我並不是說要持續 38 年。

We were with Exxon, they told us several years ago, these ships last until they are 30 years of age. And I'm not saying that, it is quite obvious that we will renew our fleet. That goes without saying, but I used to being on the Board of Intertanko, the tanker owners, and my good friend Nick Tsakos, who I'm sure many of you know, he and I totally agree it is a question of quality. If the quality is right, it's the same, it doesn't matter, and if the ships nothing new with the ships, I fully understand the question of consumption of oil and all of that thing, that is fully understood.

我們與埃克森公司合作，他們幾年前告訴我們，這些船可以使用到 30 年。我並不是這麼說，很明顯我們將更新我們的機隊。這是不言而喻的，但我曾經是 Intertanko 董事會、油輪船東和我的好朋友 Nick Tsakos 的成員，我相信你們很多人都認識他，他和我完全同意這是一個品質問題。如果品質合適，那就是一樣的，沒關係，如果船舶沒有什麼新的，我完全理解石油消耗的問題和所有這些事情，這是完全理解的。

But the thing is I spoke about shipbuilding technology, and we have been in the business and have been running ships for ages, some people say too long, you know, we must use our own judgment about that. But of course, we shall renew our fleet, everybody must do that. So I don't know if that's was an answer or not. But the notion that old ships are more expensive than new ships, that's simply not true. I have the proof in front of me here.

但問題是我談到了造船技術，我們從事這個行業並且已經經營船舶很長時間了，有些人說太久了，你知道，我們必須對此做出自己的判斷。但當然，我們將更新我們的艦隊，每個人都必須這樣做。所以我不知道這是否是一個答案。但舊船比新船更貴的說法根本不正確。我面前有證據。

And dry docking costs between $1.5 million and $2 million. That is really what you're talking about. And the point I would make at 15 to 20 of dry docking is much lower than some analysts seem to tell us, you know. That is really the point and we're actually owning the ships and we operate the ships, so we're probably the one to know this. And I'm not suggesting that you suggest we are lying, but I can tell you we are not lying.

幹塢成本在 150 萬至 200 萬美元之間。這確實是你所說的。你知道，我在 15 到 20 次乾船塢中提出的觀點比一些分析師似乎告訴我們的要低得多。這確實是重點，我們實際上擁有這些船隻並運營這些船隻，所以我們可能是知道這一點的人。我並不是說你認為我們在說謊，但我可以告訴你我們沒有說謊。

I'm sure you're not. Okay, guys. We're approaching up on the hour, so I thank you for the time.

我確信你不是。好吧，夥計們。我們快到了，謝謝您抽出時間。

Thank you.

謝謝。

James Young, Maxim Group.

詹姆斯楊，馬克西姆集團。

Hello. Thanks for taking my call today. So a lot of the questions have already been answered, but can you give us some insight into what your plans are with the older vessels with the upcoming environmental regulations?

你好。感謝您今天接聽我的電話。很多問題已經得到解答，但是您能否向我們介紹一下您對舊船的計劃以及即將出台的環境法規？

Let me say two things. Firstly, let me talk about the scrubbers. That's no problem whatsoever. Not at all. All our vessels are running and engines class approved to run 0.1 software high fuel oil or Marine gas oil. So when it comes to transfer, there's no issue at all.

讓我說兩件事。首先，我來說一下洗滌器。那是沒有問題的。一點也不。我們所有的船舶都在運行，且引擎等級已獲批准運行 0.1 軟體高燃油或船用瓦斯油。所以說在轉行的時候，完全沒有問題。

When it comes to the other thing, which is of course we're studying is the question of ballast water treatment installations. The ballast water treatment installations, they are they wish to prevent microbes, I believe you call it, microbes are moving from one part of the world to another part of the world. And there are rules governed by IMO, the International Maritime Organization, and these rules, if they do this correctly, we will can postpone the next docking by five years I believe -- is that correct?

至於另一件事，我們當然正在研究的是壓載水處理裝置的問題。壓載水處理裝置，他們是為了防止微生物，我相信你這麼稱呼它，微生物正在從世界的一個地方轉移到世界的另一個地方。國際海事組織（IMO）有一些規則，如果這些規則正確執行，我們可以將下一次對接推遲五年，我相信 - 這是正確的嗎？

By five years prior to.

到五年前。

Yes. We must stop the ships now and before September 9, but then we be getting five-year grace, if you wish you know. But we're looking at this question, I'm on the Board of the biggest maritime insurance company in the world, with the name of Gard and I am on the Board of SIGCO. Insurance Company, which is the center between the US Coast Guard and Gard and what we are seeing is that we can accommodate the rules that IMO is prescribing, and that the US Coast Guard is prescribing because we're fully cognizant of the fact that US is still running the world.

是的。我們必須在現在和 9 月 9 日之前停止船隻，但如果您願意的話，我們將獲得五年的寬限期。但我們正在考慮這個問題，我是世界上最大的海上保險公司 Gard 的董事會成員，也是 SIGCO 的董事會成員。保險公司，它是美國海岸防衛隊和 Gard 之間的中心，我們看到的是，我們可以適應 IMO 規定的規則，美國海岸防衛隊正在規定，因為我們充分認識到美國的事實仍在統治世界。

They say we provide for the rules and we are very not concerned, focused on keeping all the rules, also because of our name Nordic American Tankers, we have hundred thousand shareholders in America and we enjoy, if I should be a little bit immodest a good reputation in America. And I've been around with my colleagues all over the place of the West Coast and the East Coast and in Dallas and all over the place, so to be very clear, you from the Maxim Group, we are fine with these legislations activities. And we need to do a few dockings before September 9, and then when we do that we challenge our planning we do that we have a grace period of about five more years.

他們說我們制定了規則，我們非常不關心，專注於遵守所有規則，也因為我們的名字 Nordic American Tankers，我們在美國擁有數十萬股東，如果我應該有點不謙虛的話，我們會享受在美國有良好的聲譽。我和西海岸、東海岸以及達拉斯和其他地方的同事都去過，所以要非常明確的是，Maxim 集團的你們，我們對這些立法活動沒有意見。我們需要在 9 月 9 日之前進行幾次對接，然後當我們這樣做時，我們會挑戰我們的計劃，我們會再有大約五年的寬限期。

So and I can tell you, sir, that my experience over the years, is that all these regulations they are postponed and postponed and postponed. We had a double introduction in following the Exxon Valdez accident, in 1989, Exxon Valdez, the Exxon ship that with the ground in Puget Sound in Alaska. And that was of course introduction of the double thing and the last time a single-helm ship could trade was in 2010. So it took almost more than 20 years before the legislation was enacted to it became illegal if you wish to trade such a ship. In short, Maxim man it is soluble and we're confident on that.

因此，先生，我可以告訴你，我多年來的經驗是，所有這些規定都被推遲、推遲、推遲。1989年，埃克森·瓦爾迪茲號事故發生後，我們有雙重介紹，埃克森·瓦爾迪茲號這艘埃克森輪船停泊在阿拉斯加的普吉特灣。當然，這就是雙舵船的引入，單舵船最後一次可以進行貿易是在 2010 年。因此，幾乎花了20多年的時間，立法才頒布，如果你想交易這樣的船，它就變成非法的。簡而言之，馬克西姆先生，這是可以解決的，我們對此充滿信心。

Okay. So at what point does it make sense to I guess stop operating the older vessels? So what I want to know is what is old vessels (multiple speakers) Nordic --?

好的。那麼我認為什麼時候停止營運舊船才有意義呢？所以我想知道什麼是北歐老船（多揚聲器）——？

I have addressed that several times, as long as the assumption very nicely, I'm fine.

我已經多次提到這個問題，只要假設很好，我就可以。

I know you mentioned that you work with a lot of the oil majors, when you do the base processes especially with the older tonnage, are they giving market rates, comparable rates or --?

我知道您提到您與許多石油巨頭合作，當您進行基礎加工時，特別是舊噸位，他們是否給出市場費率、可比費率或——？

Yes, yes. There is misunderstanding out there, that older tonnage gets lower rates, that's not true. That's not true. And it is, as I mentioned, it is the quality and there is a notion of that a low ships. You know, Shell was vetting one of our ships yesterday, and we had zero observations, zero observations, nothing. And there is a misconception that old ships spend more money than new ships. That's not true.

是的，是的。人們有誤解，認為噸位越大，費率就越低，但事實並非如此。那不是真的。正如我所提到的，這是質量，並且有一種低船的概念。你知道，殼牌昨天正在審查我們的一艘船，我們的觀察結果為零，觀察結果為零，什麼都沒有。並且有一種誤解，認為舊船比新船花費更多。那不是真的。

On the contrary, some of the new ships are the contrary, and we have a huge customer base around the world, that we serve with all those ships you know. And that is why you have such a good report. And one of our friends and my colleagues was in London just 10 days ago, and he visited some of the major oil companies in London, and they are very appreciative of what we're doing.

相反，一些新船恰恰相反，我們在世界各地擁有龐大的客戶群，我們為您所知道的所有船舶提供服務。這就是為什麼你有如此好的報告。我們的一位朋友和同事十天前還在倫敦，他參觀了倫敦的一些主要石油公司，他們非常欣賞我們所做的事情。

Because the thing is the psychology is when -- this has to do the safety of the crew, safety for the environment and safety for assets. And when they go to bed in the evening, and lay on their pillow, they must feel good they are doing business with Nordic and they are doing business with Nordic it's good. That is the summary, my good friend.

因為問題在於心理──這必須關係到船員的安全、環境的安全和資產的安全。當他們晚上睡覺並躺在枕頭上時，他們一定會感覺很好，他們正在與 Nordic 做生意，而且他們正在與 Nordic 做生意，這很好。這就是總結，我的好朋友。

Okay. So in terms of I guess Suezmax sector in general for this year, it seems like there's going to be about 42 vessels delivered in the first half. And with the OPEC cut still in effect until I guess May, do you see any rate weakness leading up to that in Q1 and Q2? Rates have pulled back a little bit over the past two weeks right?

好的。因此，我猜測今​​年蘇伊士型油輪產業總體而言，上半年似乎將交付約 42 艘船。由於歐佩克減產仍然有效，我想在五月之前，您是否認為第一季和第二季會出現利率疲軟？過去兩週利率有回落，對嗎？

In our report, we said that we have made more than 25,000, and you know the market can go three ways, it goes up or goes down or stays where it is. We have even written that in our report from time to time.

在我們的報告中，我們說我們已經賺了超過 25,000 個，而且你知道市場可以走三種方式：上漲、下跌或保持原樣。我們甚至不時在報告中寫到這一點。

And I don't know OPEC. I'm not an expert on OPEC. I don't know anybody who's an expert on OPEC you know. I know I could make a long speech on the relationship between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and I could make a long speech on Trump, and I could make a long speech on international geopolitics, but that is outside the scope of this conference. Maybe I don't know.

我不知道歐佩克。我不是歐佩克專家。我不認識任何人是歐佩克專家。我知道我可以就沙烏地阿拉伯和伊朗的關係發表長篇演講，我可以就川普發表長篇演講，我可以就國際地緣政治發表長篇演講，但這超出了本次會議的範圍。也許我不知道。

Maybe if somebody comes with us with a very cheap vessel, then I may be very strongly as we buy that ship you know. So as I said earlier, we are not concern because if we were concerned or nervous we wouldn't have been in this business. Then we would have done something else.

也許如果有人帶著一艘非常便宜的船和我們一起來，那麼我可能會非常強烈地購買那艘船，你知道。正如我之前所說，我們並不擔心，因為如果我們擔心或緊張，我們就不會從事這個行業。那我們就會做別的事情。

Okay. So let me shift gears here, just one last question. All your vessels are South Korean built --

好的。那麼讓我換個話題，問最後一個問題。你們所有的船隻都是韓國製造的——

They are.

他們是。

Would you look to go to China --?

你想去中國嗎——？

Most of them are Korean built, about 26 I believe or something. And then we had a few from Japan. When I started out in this business commercially, then we ordered a lot of ships in Japan, and my friend Martime architect Lars sitting here. He was living in Japan, and then we moved to Korea and then now we have two ships from China I believe.

其中大多數是韓國製造的，我相信大約有 26 個。然後我們有一些來自日本。當我開始從事這項商業業務時，我們在日本訂購了很多船，我的朋友 Martime 建築師 Lars 就坐在這裡。他住在日本，然後我們搬到了韓國，我相信現在我們有兩艘來自中國的船。

We're discussing a lot with China you know on the chartering side above all you know. And I have a very good feeling for China, they are extremely intelligent, they are extremely clever, they will solve the pollution problem there is no doubt in my mind. I was in the Far East first time in 1975, when the fog in was so just like gravy today is clean and in 10 years time China will be clean.

我們正在與中國就租船方面進行許多討論。我對中國有很好的感覺，他們非常聰明，他們非常聰明，他們將解決污染問題，這是我心中毫無疑問的。1975年我第一次去遠東，當時的霧氣就像今天的肉汁一樣乾淨，十年後中國也會乾淨。

Asking about questions whether we should buy ships in China, I would say you would be one of the last I told. The Chinese are very clever. Let me put it like this, they are very clever.

當被問到我們是否應該在中國購買船舶的問題時，我想說你將是我最後告訴的人之一。中國人非常聰明。讓我這樣說吧，他們非常聰明。

Okay. So it would be fair to say you have no qualms about building new builds in China?

好的。那麼可以公平地說，您對在中國建造新建築沒有任何疑慮嗎？

I have no [qualms]?

我沒有[疑慮]嗎？

Qualms -- issues.

疑慮——問題。

No, I don't know. They like it simple. I like it simple. I like to do business with people I've done business before. And they like what we're doing and we like what they are doing and you know. There are so many things to worry about that we try to suppress these things and take them away you know, so it's not a big issue at all you know.

不，我不知道。他們喜歡簡單。我喜歡簡單的。我喜歡和我以前做過生意的人做生意。他們喜歡我們正在做的事情，我們也喜歡他們正在做的事情，你知道。有太多需要擔心的事情，我們試圖壓制這些事情並將它們帶走，所以這根本不是什麼大問題。

So I would also like to say that it depends on terms and quality of course. One of our older ships built in China is from 1997 I believe. Perhaps one of the best ships we have. We bought it from the prestigious Anders Wilhelmsen Group in England now. They are the largest shareholder in Royal Caribbean Cruise lines you know, that ship has served us very well. Sorry about my evasive way of responding.

所以我還想說，這當然取決於條款和品質。我相信我們在中國建造的一艘舊船是 1997 年建造的。也許是我們擁有的最好的船之一。我們現在從英國著名的Anders Wilhelmsen集團購買了它。他們是皇家加勒比遊輪公司的最大股東，你知道，這艘船為我們提供了很好的服務。很抱歉我的迴避方式。

That's helpful. Thanks again for doing the call. I'll drop off here for the next in line, thanks

這很有幫助。再次感謝您撥打電話。我會在這裡下車等待下一個隊列，謝謝

Anybody else who would like to --

還有誰願意——

Mike Mauskopf, MRM Capital.

邁克·莫斯科普夫 (Mike Mauskopf)，MRM 資本。

How much have you borrowed on the $500 million credit facility?

您在 5 億美元的信貸額度中藉了多少錢？

The net debt is about $10 million per ship. The total borrowing is 450 or something 447.

每艘船的淨債務約為1000萬美元。總借款是 450 或 447 左右。

So you borrowed $447 million over the $500 million?

那麼您在這 5 億美元中藉了 4.47 億美元？

Yes, then we have $100 million in cash in the Company, so that net debt -- it's really the net debt you should look at. The debt net is about $10 million per ship. So our debt is about $300 million or so. We have the best relationship to the bankers.

是的，那麼我們公司有 1 億美元的現金，所以淨債務——這確實是你應該關注的淨債務。每艘船的債務淨額約為1000萬美元。所以我們的債務大約是3億美元左右。我們與銀行家有著最好的關係。

The three ships --?

三艘船——？

All the time. All the time.

一直以來。一直以來。

The three ships that are going to be done completely by the second half of 2018, how much did they cost?

2018年下半年即將完工的三艘船，造價是多少？

Let me put it like this, in the mid-50s. Very advantageous.

讓我這樣說吧，在50年代中期。非常有優勢。

Mid-50s per ship?

每艘船五十多歲？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. So you raised $120 million on September 30, 2016, which should be paying for most of these ships, is that correct?

好的。那麼您在 2016 年 9 月 30 日籌集了 1.2 億美元，這應該支付大部分船舶的費用，對嗎？

Yes, that is a good assumption.

是的，這是一個很好的假設。

Okay.

好的。

We were the only company out there who had the credibility to buy the ships. To have the offering you know, we got the offering done. First one in two years.

我們是唯一一家有信譽購買這些船隻的公司。為了讓您知道產品，我們已經完成了產品。兩年來第一次。

So last question that I have is you bought with your son 100,000 shares back on August 17 at $11.16. You then bought 210,000 shares on August 30 at $10.95. Insiders and the Board of Directors bought another 534,000 shares when you did the second share okay. The stock being where it is right now, which is at $8.68, $8.70, give or take a few pennies, why wouldn't you guys have added to the position if you've been buying on the way down?

我的最後一個問題是，您和您的兒子在 8 月 17 日以 11.16 美元的價格購買了 100,000 股。然後您在 8 月 30 日以 10.95 美元的價格購買了 210,000 股。當你第二股表現良好時，內部人士和董事會又買了 534,000 股。股票目前的價格是 8.68 美元、8.70 美元，漲跌幾美分，如果你們一直在下跌過程中買入，為什麼不加倉呢？

Now, are we in the black period. We are not allowed to buy anything, you know. My son is living abroad. He's a very clever guy, he's living in southern France, living in London, and --

現在，我們正處於黑色時期嗎？你知道，我們不被允許買任何東西。我兒子住在國外。他是一個非常聰明的人，他住在法國南部，住在倫敦，而且——

Now that you've reported earnings, you're allowed to now to buy the stock if you wanted to.

現在您已經報告了收益，如果您願意，現在可以購買該股票。

What's that?

那是什麼？

You just reported earnings so your black out period is over.

您剛剛報告了收入，所以您的封鎖​​期已經結束。

There is one day between.

其間有一日。

It's normally I think 24 to 48 hours, isn't that correct?

我認為通常是 24 到 48 小時，對嗎？

48. So I may be asking you to lend me some money and then I can buy.

48.所以我可能會要求你借我一些錢，然後我就可以買了。

So you don't think your stock is cheap enough to buy here, when you bought it 25% higher is my question.

所以你認為你的股票不夠便宜，可以在這裡購買，當你買它的時候價格高了 25%，這是我的問題。

Well you know, I've millions and millions and millions of dollars in investments all over the world. And of course, although I would like it not to be the case, but also my resources are limited.

你知道，我在世界各地有數百萬美元的投資。當然，雖然我希望情況並非如此，但我的資源也是有限的。

Okay.

好的。

If you have some money to lend me, please do. I will pay a low interest.

如果你有錢可以藉我，請借我。我將支付低利息。

What I'm saying is that I've been buying stock for my clients and myself but --

我想說的是，我一直在為我的客戶和我自己購買股票，但是—

That's good. That's good. I hope so. That's good. I enjoyed your comments, sir.

那挺好的。那挺好的。我希望如此。那挺好的。我很喜歡你的評論，先生。

Thank you.

謝謝。

You're a shareholder in a good company. And I'm very relaxed, I must say. I'm very relaxed, either it goes up or down and I see that. And you can buy lower, you can tell your friends they can by lower, but it is not right of me to sit here and say what I'm going to do. That is the gist of all of this. Okay. Anybody else wishing to --

你是一家好公司的股東。我必須說，我非常放鬆。我很放鬆，無論它上升還是下降，我都看到了。你可以買得更低，你可以告訴你的朋友他們可以更低，但我坐在這裡說我要做什麼是不對的。這就是這一切的要點。好的。還有其他人希望──

Joseph DePaul, DePaul Capital.

約瑟夫‧德保羅，德保羅資本。

Yes, are you planning on scrapping any ships during the calendar year 2017?

是的，您是否計劃在 2017 年期間報廢任何船舶？

The answer is no.

答案是否定的。

Thank you. That's my only question.

謝謝。這是我唯一的問題。

That's good, should we do that you believe? If I ask you?

很好，我們應該按照你相信的那樣做嗎？如果我問你呢？

You have several ships that are approaching an age where other companies have scrapped ships.

您有幾艘船已接近其他公司報廢船舶的年齡。

Other companies in Chapter 11?

第11章中的其他公司？

I don't think so.

我不這麼認為。

Did you hear my comment about age and all that?

你聽到我關於年齡之類的評論了嗎？

Yes, I did. There's a lot of other opinions out there, that's all I will say.

是的，我做到了。還有很多其他的意見，我就說這麼多。

Opinions by people who don't own ships? And who don't have investments, more opinions, you should buy a ship. Then you can see what it is. So if you are suggesting we are stupid, please do that, we had the same thing since 1997, and they have said to us, your stock price is too high, and I say we can live with that. Okay sorry about I'm not going to take your advice on shipping at all. You will have to stick with stock.

不擁有船舶的人的意見？而沒有投資、沒有更多意見的人，應該買一艘船。然後你就可以看到它是什麼了。因此，如果您認為我們很愚蠢，請這樣做，自 1997 年以來我們也經歷過同樣的事情，他們對我們說，你們的股價太高了，我說我們可以忍受。好吧，抱歉，我根本不會接受你關於運輸的建議。你必須堅持庫存。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Thank you. Any more questions?

謝謝。還有其他問題嗎？

There are no further questions.

沒有其他問題了。

Okay. That's good. I would like to say thank you very much. It was a great pleasure to have you on the phone call. If I did offend somebody that was not the intention, but I enjoyed talking to you. And if I get good feedback from this, we get good feedback, I may view this more positively on the next occasion. Thank you very much and good evening.

好的。那挺好的。我想說非常感謝。很高興接到您的電話。如果我確實冒犯了某人，那不是我的本意，但我很喜歡和你說話。如果我從中得到良好的回饋，我們也會得到良好的回饋，我可能會在下一次更積極地看待這件事。非常感謝，晚上好。

That concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。女士們、先生們，感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。