Maxlinear Inc (MXL) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the MaxLinear fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Leslie Green, Investor Relations. Thank you, Leslie, you may begin.

大家好，歡迎參加 MaxLinear 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。現在我很高興介紹您的主持人，投資者關係部 Leslie Green。謝謝你，萊斯利，你可以開始了。

Thank you, Alicia, and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on today's conference call to discuss MaxLinear's fourth quarter 2024 financial results. Today's call is being hosted by Dr. Kishore Seendripu, CEO; and Steve Lichfield, Chief Financial Officer and Chief Corporate Strategy Officer.

謝謝你，艾莉西亞，大家下午好，謝謝你們參加今天的電話會議，討論 MaxLinear 2024 年第四季的財務表現。今天的電話會議由執行長 Kishore Seendripu 博士主持；以及財務長兼首席企業策略長史蒂夫·利奇菲爾德 (Steve Lichfield)。

After our prepared comments, we will take your questions. Our comments today include forward-looking statements within the meaning of applicable securities laws, including statements relating to our guidance for the first quarter of 2025, including revenue, GAAP and non-GAAP gross margin, GAAP and non-GAAP operating expenses, GAAP and non-GAAP interest and other expense, and GAAP and non-GAAP diluted share count.

在準備好評論後，我們將回答您的問題。我們今天的評論包括適用證券法含義內的前瞻性陳述，包括與我們對 2025 年第一季的指導有關的陳述，包括收入、GAAP 和非 GAAP 毛利率、GAAP 和非 GAAP 營業費用、GAAP 和非公認會計準則利息和其他費用以及公認會計準則和非公認會計準則稀釋股數。

In addition, we will make forward-looking statements relating to trends, opportunities, execution of our business plan, and potential growth and uncertainties, and various products and geographic markets, including without limitation statements concerning future financial and operating results, opportunities for revenue and market share across target markets, new products, including the timing of production and margins of such products, demand for the adoption of certain technologies and our total addressable market. These forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, including risks outlined in our risk factors section of our recent SEC filings, including our Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2024, which we filed today.

此外，我們將就趨勢、機會、業務計劃的執行、潛在成長和不確定性以及各種產品和地理市場做出前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於有關未來財務和營運績效、收入機會和目標市場的市場佔有率、新產品（包括此類產品的生產時間和利潤率）、採用某些技術的需求以及我們的整體目標市場。這些前瞻性陳述涉及風險和不確定性，包括我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中風險因素部分概述的風險，包括我們今天提交的截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的年度 10-K 表。

Any forward-looking statements are made as of today, and MaxLinear has no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements. The fourth quarter 2024 earnings release is available in the Investor Relations section of our website at maxlinear.com.

任何前瞻性陳述均截至今日作出，MaxLinear 沒有義務更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述。2024 年第四季財報可在我們網站 maxlinear.com 的投資者關係部分查閱。

In addition, we report certain historical financial metrics, including but not limited to, gross margin, operating margin, operating expenses, and interest and other expense of both GAAP and non-GAAP basis. We encourage investors to review the detailed reconciliation of our GAAP and non-GAAP presentations and the press release available on our website.

此外，我們也報告某些歷史財務指標，包括但不限於毛利率、營業利潤率、營業費用以及 GAAP 和非 GAAP 基礎的利息和其他費用。我們鼓勵投資者查看我們網站上提供的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 報告的詳細對帳表和新聞稿。

We do not provide reconciliation of non-GAAP guidance for future periods because of the inherent uncertainty associated with our ability to project certain future changes, including stock-based compensation and its related tax effects as well as potential impairments. Non-GAAP financial measures discussed today are not meant to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for comparable GAAP financial measures.

我們不提供未來期間的非 GAAP 指引的對賬，因為我們預測某些未來變化的能力存在固有的不確定性，包括股票薪酬及其相關稅收影響以及潛在減值。今天討論的非 GAAP 財務指標不應單獨考慮或取代可比較的 GAAP 財務指標。

We are providing this information because management believes it is useful to investors as it rich reflect how management measures our business. Lastly, this call is being webcast, and the replay will be available on our website for two weeks.

我們提供這些資訊是因為管理層認為這些資訊對投資者有用，因為它可以反映管理層如何衡量我們的業務。最後，本次電話會議將進行網路直播，重播將在我們的網站上提供兩週。

And now let me turn the call over to Dr. Kishore Seendripu, CEO of MaxLinear. Kishore?

現在，我將電話轉給 MaxLinear 執行長 Kishore Seendripu 博士。基肖爾？

Thank you, Leslie, and good afternoon, everyone. Our Q4 results exceeded the midpoint of a guidance at $92.2 million of revenue, non-GAAP gross margin of 59.1%, along with the significant reduction in operating expenses.

謝謝你，萊斯利，大家下午好。我們的第四季業績超過了預期中位數，收入為 9,220 萬美元，非 GAAP 毛利率為 59.1%，同時營運費用大幅減少。

We continue to see meaningful improvement in our customer order rates and backlog. The solid signs of recovery combined with new product traction and strategic growth areas such as high-speed interconnect. On slide 5, an Internet provide us confidence that you achieve continued growth and improvements in our financial results throughout this year.

我們繼續看到客戶訂單率和積壓訂單的顯著改善。強勁的復甦跡象與新產品的吸引力以及高速互連等策略性成長領域相結合。在第 5 張投影片上，網路讓我們相信您在今年全年將實現財務業績的持續成長和改​​善。

Looking at our key markets, in infrastructure, the expansion of cloud computing is driving significant growth in design activity that normalized speed optical data center connectivity. We made strong progress in '24. The design win traction and broader goals for our 5 nanometer Keystone PAM4 product.

縱觀我們的關鍵市場，在基礎設施方面，雲端運算的擴展正在推動設計活動的顯著成長，從而使光纖資料中心的連接速度標準化。我們在24年取得了長足的進步。該設計為我們的 5 奈米 Keystone PAM4 產品贏得了關注並實現了更廣泛的目標。

We exceeded our revenue targets in '24 and our position rigs earning growth in '25. As of this month, we have shipped approximately 1 million plus units total of Keystone products across multiple customers into high-volume opportunities. Our initial design wins and transceivers, active optical cables, and active electrical cables are ramping as expected.

我們在24年超額完成了收入目標，並且在25年我們的持倉鑽機收益實現了成長。截至本月，我們已向多個客戶大量運送了總計約 100 萬多台 Keystone 產品。我們最初的設計已獲得勝利，收發器、有源光纜和主動電纜正在按預期發展。

We anticipate initial qualification and rollout for our agents gigabit in 1.6 terabit data center applications throughout 2025 and into 2026. The superior power and performance advantages of Keystone continued to be the main street and focus for our differentiation even in our next generation Rushmore family of 200 gigabit per lane band for TIAs and DSPs were 1.6 terabit interconnections.

我們預計在 2025 年至 2026 年期間，我們的代理商將在 1.6 太比特資料中心應用中實現千兆位元的初步認證和推出。Keystone 的卓越功率和效能優勢繼續成為我們差異化的主要途徑和重點，即使在我們的下一代 Rushmore 系列中，TIA 和 DSP 的每通道 200 千兆位元頻段也達到 1.6 太比特互連。

In wireless infrastructure, our wireless 5G access O-RAN single chip radio unit and our backhaul transceivers and modems are essential for supporting increased mobile usage and data rates as well as new functions such as Edge AI. We believe we are positioned strongly for content growth and share gains this year as service provider CapEx spend improves and as our continued design wins the Tier 1 customers beginning to ramp particularly in the second half of 2025.

在無線基礎設施方面，我們的無線 5G 接入 O-RAN 單晶片無線電單元和回程收發器和數據機對於支援增加的行動使用和資料速率以及 Edge AI 等新功能至關重要。我們相信，隨著服務提供者資本支出的改善，以及我們持續的設計贏得一級客戶（尤其是在 2025 年下半年）的青睞，我們今年在內容成長和份額成長方面將佔據有利地位。

Also, within our interest structure revenues, our Panther III series hardware storage accelerators are providing exciting incremental growth opportunities. And the 2024 Supercomputing Conference in November, we announced a new software defined storage solution in partnership with Quanta to address the needs of AI high-speed computing and other data intensive applications.

此外，在我們的利益結構收入中，我們的 Panther III 系列硬體儲存加速器正在提供令人興奮的增量成長機會。並在11月的2024年超級運算大會上，我們與廣達合作宣布推出全新的軟體定義儲存解決方案，以滿足AI高速運算和其他資料密集型應用的需求。

This joint solution enables rapid access to massive data sets while enhancing both performance and scalability. As we look ahead, our path to product is strongly positioned within the data center, enterprise storage applications and at the edge of the network with multiple design means with major customers and value-added resellers across key geographies. In Ethernet connectivity, MaxLinear is one of the broadest and most competitive portfolios of 200 gigabit Ethernet switch and five products for the enterprise and small and medium business switch markets.

此聯合解決方案能夠快速存取海量資料集，同時提高效能和可擴展性。展望未來，我們的產品路線將牢牢定位在資料中心、企業儲存應用和網路邊緣，並擁有多種設計手段，涵蓋主要地區的主要客戶和加值經銷商。在乙太網路連接領域，MaxLinear 擁有最廣泛、最具競爭力的 200 千兆乙太網路交換器產品組合之一，並為企業和中小型企業交換器市場提供五種產品。

Swan Creek, our single chip integrated 8-port 5-inch switch is gaining traction across multiple enterprise customers, looking to upgrade the networks to 200 gigabit ethernet rates. Our Tier 1 North American enterprise OEM customer is expected to ramp to production in 2025 and contribute to significant ethernet revenue growth over the coming years. In addition, we are seeing widespread interest from next generation broadband gateways and routers.

Swan Creek 是我們的單晶片整合 8 埠 5 吋交換機，正在獲得多家企業客戶的青睞，他們希望將網路升級到 200 千兆乙太網路速率。我們的一級北美企業 OEM 客戶預計將在 2025 年投入生產，並在未來幾年為乙太網路收入的大幅成長做出貢獻。此外，我們看到人們對下一代寬頻網關和路由器的廣泛興趣。

Shifting to broadband and Wi-Fi connectivity are considerable focus and on PON to expand a broadband target addressable market in addition to a strong cable data offering of DOCSIS 3.1, Ultra DOCSIS and DOCSIS 4.2 solutions is bearing fruit. We have exciting design interaction for our single chip integrated fiber PON and 10 gigabit processor gateway SOC plus tri-band Wi-Fi 7 and single chip platform solution.

轉向寬頻和 Wi-Fi 連線是人們關注的重點，除了提供強大的有線資料服務（包括 DOCSIS 3.1、Ultra DOCSIS 和 DOCSIS 4.2 解決方案）外，透過 PON 擴大寬頻目標可尋址市場也正在取得成果。我們針對單晶片整合光纖 PON 和 10 千兆處理器閘道 SOC 以及三頻 Wi-Fi 7 和單晶片平台解決方案進行了令人興奮的設計互動。

We have a promising engagement at another Tier 1 North America carrier, which we believe can become a major opportunity for us in 2025 and '26. In conclusion, our strong product roadmap execution has begun to deliver meaningful traction and target at the same market expansion across several high value categories, including high-speed interconnect for data center, enterprise ethernet and storage accelerators, wireless infrastructure, multi-gibbon broadband access and Wi-Fi connectivity solutions.

我們與另一家北美一級航空公司有良好的合作，我們相信這可能成為我們在 2025 年和 2026 年的一個重要機會。總而言之，我們強大的產品路線圖執行力已開始產生有意義的牽引力，並瞄準多個高價值類別的同一市場擴張，包括資料中心的高速互連、企業乙太網路和儲存加速器、無線基礎設施、多臂寬頻存取以及Wi-Fi連線解決方案。

As we begin 2025, we're not only energized with the solid growth prospects in 2025, but we also feel confident achieving sustained revenue growth in the coming years. With that, let me now turn the call over to Steve Litchfield, our Chief Financial Officer and Chief Corporate Strategy Officer.

當我們迎來 2025 年時，我們不但對 2025 年穩健的成長前景充滿信心，而且我們也對未來幾年實現持續的收入成長充滿信心。現在，我將把電話轉給我們的財務長兼首席企業策略長史蒂夫·利奇菲爾德 (Steve Litchfield)。

Thank you, Kishore. Total revenue for the fourth quarter was $92.2 million, up 14% from $81.1 million in the previous quarter. Infrastructure revenue was $27 million. Broadband revenue for the fourth quarter was $29 million. Connectivity revenue was $20 million. And our industrial multi-market revenue was $16 million.

謝謝你，基肖爾。第四季總營收為 9,220 萬美元，較上一季的 8,110 萬美元成長 14%。基礎設施收入為2700萬美元。第四季寬頻收入為2900萬美元。連接收入為2000萬美元。我們的工業多市場收入為 1600 萬美元。

GAAP and non-GAAP gross margins for the fourth quarter were approximately 55.6% and 59.1% of revenue. The delta between GAAP non-GAAP gross margin in the fourth quarter was primarily driven by $3 million of acquisition related intangible asset amortization.

第四季 GAAP 和非 GAAP 毛利率分別約為營收的 55.6% 和 59.1%。第四季 GAAP 與非 GAAP 毛利率之間的差異主要是由於收購相關的 300 萬美元無形資產攤銷。

Fourth quarter GAAP operating expenses were $92.4 million and non-GAAP operating expenses were $61.3 million. The delta between GAAP and non-GAAP OpEx was primarily due to stock-based compensation and performance-based equity accruals of $20.4 million combined acquisition related costs of $7.3 million and restructuring costs of $3.1 million.

第四季 GAAP 營業費用為 9,240 萬美元，非 GAAP 營業費用為 6,130 萬美元。GAAP 和非 GAAP 營運支出之間的差異主要是由於股票薪酬和基於績效的權益應計費用共計 2,040 萬美元、合併收購相關成本 730 萬美元和重組成本 310 萬美元。

GAAP and non-GAAP loss from operations for Q4 2024 was 45% and 7% of net revenue. GAAP and non-GAAP interest and other income during the quarter was $351,000 and $677,000, respectively.

2024 年第四季的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 營業虧損分別為淨收入的 45% 和 7%。本季的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 利息及其他收入分別為 351,000 美元和 677,000 美元。

In Q4, cash flow used in operating activities was approximately $28 million. We exited Q4 of 2024 with approximately $120 million in cash, cash equivalents, and restricted cash.

第四季度，經營活動所用現金流約2,800萬美元。截至 2024 年第四季度，我們擁有約 1.2 億美元的現金、現金等價物和受限現金。

Our day sales outstanding was up in the fourth quarter to approximately 85 days. Our gross inventory was down versus previous quarter as we continue to make improvements with inventory turns slightly less than one. This concludes the discussion of our Q4 financial results.

我們的應收帳款週轉天數在第四季增加至約 85 天。由於我們不斷改進，庫存週轉率略低於 1，我們的總庫存較上一季下降。這就是我們第四季財務業績的討論。

With that, let's turn to our guidance for Q1 of 2025. We currently expect revenue in the first quarter of 2025 to be between $85 million and $105 million. Looking at Q1 by end market, we expect broadband and infrastructure to be up. Connectivity is expected to be approximately flat, and industrial & multimarket is expected to be down.

因此，讓我們來看看 2025 年第一季的指引。我們目前預計 2025 年第一季的營收將在 8,500 萬美元至 1.05 億美元之間。從終端市場來看第一季度，我們預期寬頻和基礎設施將會上升。預計連通性將大致持平，而工業和多市場預計將下降。

We expect first quarter GAAP gross margin to be approximately 54.5% to 57.5% and non-GAAP gross margin to be in the range of 57.5% and 60.5% of revenue. We expect Q1 2025 GAAP operating expenses to be in the range of $93 million to $99 million. We expect Q1 2025 non-GAAP operating expenses to be in the range of $56 million to $62 million.

我們預計第一季 GAAP 毛利率約為 54.5% 至 57.5%，非 GAAP 毛利率在 57.5% 至 60.5% 之間。我們預計 2025 年第一季 GAAP 營運費用將在 9,300 萬美元至 9,900 萬美元之間。我們預計 2025 年第一季非 GAAP 營業費用在 5,600 萬美元至 6,200 萬美元之間。

We expect our Q1 GAAP and non-GAAP interest and other expense needs to be in the range of approximately $1 million to $2 million. We expect $2.7 million tax expense on a GAAP basis and non-GAAP tax of zero. We expect our Q1 GAAP and non-GAAP diluted share count to be approximately $85.5 million each.

我們預計第一季的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 利息和其他費用需要在約 100 萬美元至 200 萬美元之間。我們預計，以 GAAP 計算的稅費為 270 萬美元，非 GAAP 計算的稅費為零。我們預計第一季 GAAP 和非 GAAP 稀釋股數各約為 8,550 萬美元。

In closing, another quarter of improvement in customer orders and continued new product traction give us confidence that we are entering our next stage of growth in 2025. We're excited that our innovation and investment and strategic applications such as optical, high-speed interconnects, wireless infrastructure, storage, Ethernet, Wi-Fi, and fiber broadband, access gateways are beginning to deliver tangible opportunities for near term and long-term growth. In addition, our strong focus on operational efficiency in 2024 is positioning us for positive leverage in our business model and a return and to profitability this year.

最後，客戶訂單量又連續一個季度改善，新產品的持續成長讓我們有信心在 2025 年進入下一階段的成長。我們很高興看到我們的創新和投資以及策略應用（如光學、高速互連、無線基礎設施、儲存、乙太網路、Wi-Fi、光纖寬頻、存取網關）開始為短期和長期帶來實際的機會。此外，我們將在 2024 年高度關注營運效率，這將為我們的業務模式帶來積極的槓桿作用，並在今年實現回報和盈利。

With that, we'd like to open up the call for questions.

現在，我們想開始回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Tore Svanberg, Stifel.

(操作員指令) Tore Svanberg，Stifel。

Yes, thank you. So my first question is, obviously, you're still relatively new entrant into the optical interconnect market. But you are the first one to report among your peer group. So I was just hoping, both Kishore or Steve, could you just talk a little bit about the events of this week, especially from Monday? How do you view this whole topic as far as potentially impacting the optical interconnect market?

是的，謝謝。所以我的第一個問題是，顯然你們仍然是光互連市場的新手。但在你們同儕中，你是第一個檢舉的。所以我只是希望，無論是 Kishore 還是 Steve，你們能否談談本週的活動，特別是從週一開始的活動？就潛在影響而言，您如何看待整個主題對光互連市場的影響？

Well, Tore, we're pretty excited that we now have recorded a strong 2024. We exceeded our own internal targets of revenues. We have design wins and shipments in various qualities and stages with all the 12 module makers in the world with their end customer spending across both China in the US.

好吧，托爾，我們非常高興我們在 2024 年取得了強勁的成績。我們超越了自己的內部收入目標。我們與全球所有 12 家模組製造商簽訂了不同品質和階段的設計和出貨合同，他們的終端客戶遍布中國和美國。

So that's the exciting part with regard to what happened this week. And I'm afraid that that's a question that really only democratizes and really expand the real possibility for our new entrants like us to really expand our share as the market grows. At the end of the day, we are a high-speed interconnect transport company.

這就是本週發生的事情令人興奮的部分。我擔心這個問題實際上只會使我們這樣的新進入者更加民主化，並真正擴大我們的真正可能性，以便隨著市場的成長真正擴大我們的份額。總而言之，我們是一家高速互聯互通運輸公司。

So no matter what happens in the compute, the links are going to more and we will be faster and speedier. And we have the right technology for low-power and high efficiency performance targets that these markets will require. So from my point of view, processing content is one thing. But the links are given, and they're going to be really needed. And I think it really democratizes for people like us to really, really part of the majorly what I call expanded and singularized market if that's going to take hold.

因此，無論計算中發生什麼，連結都會越來越多，我們的速度也會越來越快。我們擁有適合這些市場所需的低功耗、高效能目標的技術。所以從我的角度來看，處理內容是一回事。但已經給出了鏈接，而且它們確實是需要的。我認為，如果這一點能夠紮根的話，那麼對於我們這樣的人來說，這將真正實現民主化，讓我們真正成為我所說的擴大和單一化的市場的一部分。

Got it. That's great perspective. And as my follow up, the DSOs have been all over the place this year. They came down very nicely in Q3, but now they came back up again in Q4. Obviously, still not as bad as Q1, right? But help us understand what's going on there and how should we think about DSOs here in '25?

知道了。這是非常棒的觀點。根據我後續報道，今年 DSO 已經遍布各地。他們在 Q3 中表現非常出色，但現在他們在 Q4 中又重新崛起。顯然，仍然不像第一季那麼糟糕，對吧？但請幫助我們了解那裡發生了什麼，以及我們應該如何看待 '25 年的 DSO？

Yes. I think they're probably understand a little bit in Q3, it was really product mix and just some of the sales that we had there. So they did come up a little bit, but I would argue that in this 80 to 85 range is probably where you'd likely see it at the rest of the year.

是的。我認為他們可能對第三季度有所了解，這實際上是產品組合以及我們在那裡進行的部分銷售。因此它們確實有所上漲，但我認為，在 80 到 85 這個範圍內，很可能就是今年剩餘時間你最有可能看到的情況。

Got it. But that explains why -- I think your cash flow came down, was it $30 million? Was that the minimum?

知道了。但這解釋了原因——我認為你的現金流下降了，是 3000 萬美元嗎？這是最低限度嗎？

Yeah. Cash flow came down but that was already reflecting. We talked about that last quarter. A lot of that was -- I mean, there were some restructuring costs, but there is definitely in kind of movement around the balance sheet. But certainly, that was as expected in Q4.

是的。現金流下降了，但這已經反映出來了。我們上個季度討論過這個問題。其中很多是——我的意思是，存在一些重組成本，但資產負債表上肯定存在某種變動。但可以肯定的是，這是符合第四季預期的。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Ross Seymore, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的羅斯·西摩。

All right, guys. So I wanted to talk about the bookings in the backlog. I think the third quarter, you've seen those improve, so it's nice to see that corner being turn. Could you give us a little bit of color on where you see that happening either by end market or geography? And perhaps even is it company specific? Or is it just kind of the cycle is finally turning? Any sort of color like that on those metrics would be great.

好吧，夥計們。所以我想談談積壓的預訂情況。我認為在第三季度，你已經看到了這些進步，所以很高興看到情況出現轉機。您能否從終端市場或地理角度向我們介紹一下這種情況？或許甚至是公司特有的？或者這只是一種循環終於開始轉變了？根據這些指標，任何類似的顏色都是很好的。

Sure, Ross. Yes. Thanks for the question. Yes, we're definitely continuing to see really nice improvement on the booking side, starting backlog. I mean, going into this quarter versus the previous two or three quarters is much higher, so we're feeling much more confident.

當然，羅斯。是的。謝謝你的提問。是的，我們確實看到預訂方面和積壓訂單方面取得了非常好的改善。我的意思是，與前兩三個季度相比，本季的業績要高得多，所以我們感覺更有自信。

Visibility has certainly improved. Customers are starting to understand lead times and recognize that they can't get product when they ask for tomorrow. So we're seeing some nice improvements as far as visibility in forecasting. I mean your question is that MaxLinear versus everyone? I mean, look, we've -- in the broadband market, it certainly been a lot worse over the last two years. So I would say that that is starting to normalize a bit.

能見度確實提高了。客戶開始了解交貨時間，並認識到當他們要求明天時他們無法得到產品。因此，我們在預測的可見性方面看到了一些不錯的改進。我的意思是你的問題是 MaxLinear 與所有人相比？我的意思是，你看，在寬頻市場，過去兩年的情況肯定更糟。所以我想說，這種情況開始有點正常化了。

I also -- Kishore shortens a lot of his statements, talked about the new products. And I think as we look at 2025, I mean, certainly, we've got a recovery. I think that will be a nice tailwind. But I think what we're most excited about is these new products that are coming and these new programs that we've won. So there certainly market share gains that we're seeing and new products that are starting to ramp.

我還——基肖爾縮短了他的許多陳述，談論了新產品。我認為，展望 2025 年，我們肯定會實現復甦。我認為這將會是個很好的順風。但我認為，最讓我們興奮的是即將推出的這些新產品和我們贏得的這些新項目。因此，我們確實看到市場份額正在成長，新產品也開始出現。

Thanks for that. And I guess, Steve, probably this one's for you as well. Just on the restructuring efforts, not the fourth quarter impact per se, but just wanted to make sure that there's no big change. And I think you guys talked about what $2200 million plus or minus for full year on the OpEx side. Just wanted to see if that's still the right trajectory. And if there's any sort of lumpiness to the path on that between 1Q and 4Q?

謝謝。我想，史蒂夫，這可能也適合你。僅就重組工作而言，而不是第四季本身的影響，只是想確保不會發生太大的變化。我認為你們談論的是全年營運支出方面大約是 22 億美元加減數字。只是想看看這是否仍然是正確的軌跡。那麼，第一季和第四季之間的路徑是否存在任何不平衡？

Yes. I mean, so the restructuring certainly underway and the biggest portion of that was in Q3. And we had talked about kind of some residual that continues after that. But we're definitely seeing nice improvements in OpEx spending. I don't think the expectations have changed. I think it is -- I do expect it to be somewhere between 220 and 225 for the year. And I would expect as kind of some of these final effects take place that you'll kind of see it move down throughout the year modestly. It's not a huge change there, but it'll come down a little bit throughout the year.

是的。我的意思是，重組肯定正在進行中，其中最大部分是在第三季。我們討論過此後仍然存在的一些問題。但我們確實看到營運支出有了很大的改善。我認為期望沒有改變。我認為是的——我確實預計今年的數字將在 220 到 225 之間。而且我預計，隨著這些最終影響的發生，你會看到它在全年內會略有下降。這不是一個巨大的變化，但全年都會有所下降。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tim Savageaux, Northland Capital Markets.

北國資本市場 (Northland Capital Markets) 的 Tim Savageaux 。

Hi, good afternoon. Question on the optical front, I guess. I think you've been talking throughout the year and you've increased this range to more than $30 million in revenue for the year. I wonder if you could tell us kind of where that ended up coming in. And given your volume comments, seems like you must have had a pretty good January, I guess. So can we infer kind of a big step up there? I know you've guided infrastructure higher, just looking at the million-unit volume versus whatever your revenue may have been in '24. And I'll follow up from there.

嗨，下午好。我想，這是關於光學方面的問題。我想您全年都在談論這個範圍，並且您已經將全年收入範圍提高到 3000 萬美元以上。我想知道您是否可以告訴我們這件事的最終結果。從您大量的評論來看，我想您度過的一月一定相當不錯。那麼我們是否可以推論出這是一個很大的進步呢？我知道您已經將基礎設施的規模提高到了更高的水平，只看百萬單位的銷量，而不是24年的收入。我會繼續跟進。

Sure. Hey Tim, yeah, I mean, I think I'd probably echo what was said in the previous statements. I mean, I think we're really pleased. We came in higher than what we had expected. We didn't -- we're not breaking out the exact number, but we started the year between 10 and 30. And I think we probably landed shy of the 40 number that we were stretching to, but certainly well above the high end of the range that we set originally.

當然。嘿，提姆，是的，我的意思是，我想我可能會重複前面所說的話。我的意思是，我認為我們真的很高興。我們得到的回報超出了我們的預期。我們沒有——我們沒有公佈具體的數字，但今年年初我們的數字在 10 到 30 之間。我認為，我們可能沒有達到我們預期的 40 個數字，但肯定遠高於我們最初設定的範圍的上限。

So we're pleased with the progress. I think as we've talked about, I mean, a lot of our wins and future production revenues are really driven by 800 gig conversion. And those are just now happening this year. So it's an exciting time and looking forward to talking more about that in the coming quarters.

所以我們對進展感到滿意。我想正如我們所談論的，我們的許多勝利和未來的製作收入實際上都是由 800 千兆轉換驅動的。而這些就在今年發生了。這是一個激動人心的時刻，我期待在接下來的幾個季度中更多地談論這個問題。

Or perhaps on the next question. I wanted to see if you could -- if you would like to set a range for this year, similar to what you, not a similar range of numbers, of course, but conceptually similar, about what you think that optical business might be able to generate as you sit here in early '25.

或者也許是下一個問題。我想看看你是否可以——如果你想為今年設定一個範圍，類似於你認為光學業務可能能夠實現的，當然不是類似的數字範圍，而是概念上的類似。在這裡時產生。

Yeah, sure, Tim. Look, I don't think much has changed on this front. I think, I mean, we've talked about kind of the $60 million to $70 million number. I think that's a very reasonable number that you can target right here. Hopefully, these new data centers roll out as expected.

是的，當然，提姆。瞧，我認為在這方面沒有太大的改變。我想，我的意思是，我們討論的是 6,000 萬到 7,000 萬美元這個數字。我認為這是一個非常合理的數字，您可以立即將其作為目標。希望這些新的資料中心能夠如預期的那樣推出。

Some of that's out of our control, but certainly we're doing our part getting the wins and getting the qualifications completed. And so as soon as -- then we see our customer. I guess, in this case, our customers roll out these programs.

有些事情是我們無法控制的，但我們肯定會盡自己的努力去取得勝利並完成資格。一旦—然後我們就會看到我們的客戶。我想，在這種情況下，我們的客戶會推出這些計畫。

Okay. Last one for me. Just a little while ago, we saw an agreement. Well, actually, Amazon has been making a couple of agreements and announcements of late. But one with JBL, who I think is a module partner of yours dating back to OFC where Amazon took a bunch of warrants and JBL doesn't exactly indicate a 800 gig transceiver module relationship. But it seems like it could, I wonder if you have any comment on the potential impact of that agreement on MaxLinear?

好的。對我來說是最後一個。就在不久前，我們看到了一項協議。事實上，亞馬遜最近已經達成了一些協議並發布了一些公告。但與 JBL 合作，我認為它是你們的模組合作夥伴，可以追溯到 OFC，當時亞馬遜獲得了大量認股權證，而 JBL 並沒有明確表明存在 800G 收發器模組關係。但似乎是有可能的，我想知道您對該協議對 MaxLinear 的潛在影響有何評論？

Well, look, I'm not going to comment on those agreements. We'll confirm. As I think many of you have seen, we did demonstrate, and we've been working with those guys for some time. But we definitely -- I mean, we demonstrated this at OFC last year and they've been a good partner.

嗯，聽著，我不會對這些協議發表評論。我們將確認。我想很多人都已經看到了，我們確實進行了演示，而且我們已經與那些人合作了一段時間。但我們確實——我的意思是，我們去年在 OFC 上展示了這一點，他們一直是一個很好的合作夥伴。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

Yeah. Thanks, Tim.

是的。謝謝，蒂姆。

Quinn Bolton, Needham & Company.

奎因博爾頓，Needham & Company。

Yes. So Steve, I just wanted to follow -- sorry, to ask a question. You sort of follow-up on Tore's question. Cash standard about $120 million, guidance probably has you at a small few million, maybe mid-single-digit million net income -- non-GAAP net income loss in the March quarter. Are there any major changes in working capital, or any residual restructuring cash charges to hit you in the March quarter? Any sense where you think cash might -- what cash might do through the quarter?

是的。所以史蒂夫，我只是想跟進——抱歉，問一個問題。您對 Tore 的問題進行了類似跟進。現金標準約為 1.2 億美元，指導價可能為數百萬美元，也許是幾百萬美元的中個位數淨收入 - 3 月份季度的非 GAAP 淨收入損失。營運資本是否有任何重大變化，或者三月季度有任何剩餘重組現金費用對您造成影響嗎？您認為現金在本季可能扮演什麼角色？

Yeah, so good question, Quinn. I think as we've talked about cash, nothing's really changed on that front. We do expect inventory to continue to come down, so that's good. Working capital, I'm sure from -- as revenues start to recover here, and we burn down those inventories, we'll certainly have to replenish that.

是的，奎因，這個問題問得真好。我認為，正如我們所談論的現金一樣，這方面並沒有什麼改變。我們確實預計庫存將繼續下降，所以這是好事。我確信，隨著收入開始恢復，我們消耗掉這些庫存，我們肯定需要補充營運資金。

Out quarter revenues are certainly going to be above where they are today. So we'll have to start building on that, and we're doing our best to manage it. Of course, we've talked about cash flow break even somewhere kind of mid-year. And it's probably Q2, Q3. Likely Q3 is where I'd probably put it today. But we feel very comfortable with that, yeah.

本季的收入肯定會高於目前的水平。所以我們必須在此基礎上開始努力，並且盡最大努力去管理它。當然，我們已經討論過年中某個時候的現金流損益平衡問題。可能是第二季、第三季。我今天很可能會把它放在 Q3 上。但我們對此感到非常舒服，是的。

Okay. Thanks, Steve. And then I guess for Kishore, two questions. You talked about some design wins, a Tier 1 design win I think in the wireless infrastructure market, beginning to ramp in the second half of '25. Wasn't sure if that was for the Sierra product or if that was for the backhaul product. If you could provide any more detail there, that would be great.

好的。謝謝，史蒂夫。然後我想問 Kishore 兩個問題。您談到了一些設計勝利，我認為在無線基礎設施市場中，一級設計勝利將在 25 年下半年開始加速發展。不確定這是否適用於 Sierra 產品或回程產品。如果您可以提供更多詳細信息，那就太好了。

And then sort of similarly, I think you mentioned now a promising engagement with an additional North American Tier 1 on the PON side. I think, in the past, you've already talked about working with two of the largest in North America. So wondering if that is a third Tier 1 in North America, or maybe I misheard something. Thank you.

然後類似地，我認為您現在提到了在 PON 方面與另一個北美 Tier 1 的有希望的合作。我想，過去您已經談到與北美兩家最大的公司合作。所以想知道這是否是北美的第三個一級市場，或者也許我聽錯了。謝謝。

Well, first to answer your question of the ramp on the wireless infrastructure, the second half, there are two parts to it. There are -- they're both in our wireless backhaul transport business and also on the access side. And so it's for both the product lines, the one for Sierra O-RAN product and as well as our backhaul products.

嗯，先回答你關於無線基礎設施坡道的問題，後半部有兩個部分。它們既屬於我們的無線回程傳輸業務，也屬於存取端。它適用於兩條產品線，一條是 Sierra O-RAN 產品，另一條是我們的回程產品。

And primarily, this growth is coming through content expansion of these customers on the backhaul side. And obviously, our Sierra product is unique and is a leader. And it's the beginning of what would be a whole industry trend for merchant silicon to support both macro 5G and massive MIMO revenues in the future. So that design is a little bit of a timing uncertainty. Hopefully, you're at Mobile World Congress and you'll be able to catch a lot more glimpse of these products that I'm super excited about for sure.

這種成長主要來自於這些客戶在回程端的內容擴展。顯然，我們的 Sierra 產品是獨一無二的並且處於領先地位。這也是未來商用矽片同時支持宏 5G 和大規模 MIMO 收入的整個產業趨勢的開始。因此該設計在時間上存在一些不確定性。希望您能參加世界行動通訊大會，並且能夠更深入地了解這些讓我感到非常興奮的產品。

Regarding on the broadband side, a Tier 1 operator we refer to in engagement. We expect that to be a major driver in 2026 but could have a little bit of revenue '25 short. Now we talked about two major North American operators, but you must understand that we never talked about a gateway design per se in a Tier 1 operator. We talked about there are multiple product lines within these Tier 1 operators. but this would be a whole gateway design at a Tier 1 operator.

關於寬頻方面，我們在參與中提到的一級運營商。我們預計這將成為 2026 年的主要推動力，但 2025 年的收入可能會略有不足。現在我們討論了兩家主要的北美營運商，但您必須明白，我們從未討論過一級營運商的網關設計本身。我們討論過這些一級業者擁有多條產品線。但這將是一級運營商的整體網關設計。

Is that PON and Wi-Fi or just a PON chip?

那是 PON 和 Wi-Fi 還是只是 PON 晶片？

Yeah, it's both. When I tripped a gateway these days, it's de facto. It has Wi-Fi. It's a full PON 10 GS-PON gateway with a processor that supports 10Gbps speeds plus the world's first tri-band signal chip Wi-Fi access point solution along with our own Ethernet quad-port 2.5Gbps Ethernet 5.

是的，兩者都有。當我最近觸發網關時，它確實是如此。有無線網路。它是一個全PON 10 GS-PON 網關，配備支援10Gbps 速度的處理器，以及世界上第一個三頻訊號晶片Wi-Fi 存取點解決方案以及我們自己的乙太網路四埠2.5Gbps 乙太網路5 。

Perfect. Thank you, Kishore.

完美的。謝謝你，基肖爾。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Suji Desilva, ROTH Capital Partners.

羅仕證券 (ROTH Capital Partners) 的 Suji Desilva。

Hi, Kishore. Hi, Steve. Just wanted to see maybe double click down on the 1Q guidance, appreciate the segment color. But I'm just trying to understand if infrastructure is likely growing and continuing to ramp up here, where the offsets to that are? And what would -- have you be at the low end if you have a segment like infrastructure that's ramping strong? Just trying to understand some colors that puts and takes there.

你好，Kishore。你好，史蒂夫。只是想看看也許雙擊 1Q 指南，欣賞片段顏色。但我只是想知道，如果基礎設施可能在這裡成長並持續提升，那麼抵消因素在哪裡？如果您擁有像基礎設施這樣發展強勁的領域，那麼您處於低端的情況會怎麼樣？只是想了解一些放在那裡和帶走的顏色。

Yeah, look, I think we're excited. The infrastructure is probably the biggest grow for the year, and that's certainly the one that we've got a lot happening around. But I mean, we'll definitely see broadband grow as we stated in Q1 and likely at the end of year at a much higher level.

是的，看，我覺得我們很興奮。基礎設施可能是今年最大的成長，這也是我們進行許多工作的領域。但我的意思是，我們肯定會看到寬頻成長，正如我們在第一季所說的那樣，並且很可能在年底達到更高的水平。

I mean, the one that's been weak has been industrial. And I think we're still, like many of our peers, kind of working through that. Demand is soft. There's a little bit of inventory out there, but I think it's really more about demand. And certainly, connectivity is starting to recover as well as we talked about along with broadband.

我的意思是，最薄弱的是工業。我認為，像我們的許多同行一樣，我們仍在努力解決這個問題。需求疲軟。那裡有一點庫存，但我認為這更多的是與需求有關。當然，正如我們談到的，寬頻連線也開始恢復。

Okay. That's helpful Steve, thanks. And then maybe for Kishore, I know Tore asked about the news this week but maybe topically also CPOs being discussed whether it's in videos, in-house solution, or merchant vendors like Marvell. I'm just curious if you could update us on your thoughts and whether CPOs impact to your opportunities orthogonal, or whether it's a great opportunity, or whether it's something at risk. Any color there would help as people are looking for that in 800 1.6T.

好的。這很有幫助，史蒂夫，謝謝。然後也許對於 Kishore 來說，我知道 Tore 詢問了本週的新聞，但也許主題上也是正在討論的 CPO，無論是在視頻、內部解決方案還是像 Marvell 這樣的商家供應商中。我只是好奇您是否可以告訴我們您的想法，以及 CPO 是否會對您的機會產生正交影響，或者它是否是一個很好的機會，或者是否有風險。任何顏色都會有幫助，因為人們正在尋找 800 1.6T。

Well, you know, CPOs have now done the third incarnation in the discussion in the data center optical interconnect space, right? But there is always other vendors with optics, and CPOs are part of the discussion engagements we always constantly have. But our goal is a pure DSP PAM4 TIA type vendor story.

嗯，您知道，CPO 現在已經在資料中心光互連領域的討論中完成了第三次化身，對嗎？但是總會有其他光學器件供應商，而 CPO 是我們一直進行的討論活動的一部分。但我們的目標是純 DSP PAM4 TIA 類型供應商故事。

Whether it's linear, optical transceivers, if you will, or the next generation 400 gigabit per lambda -- silicon for that, that supports it. I look at our presence and focus on data center is beyond optics. And that's why we call that high-speed interconnects, right? Because we're a silicon provider, it spans not just the interconnect connection, but any kind of high throughput interconnects within a compute or storage environment target addressable market for us.

無論是線性光收發器，還是下一代 400 千兆位元/波長的矽，都可以支援它。我看到我們的存在和對資料中心的關注超越了光學。這就是我們稱之為高速互連的原因，對嗎？因為我們是矽片供應商，它不僅涵蓋互連連接，還涵蓋計算或儲存環境目標市場中的任何類型的高吞吐量互連。

So CPOs is one element of it. For that, you have to have your own optics and/or your partner with optics players to enable that. I just think that there's many, many years before CPOs. If ever become viable because of their various issues of quality, yield, power, and the footprint, and then how they lock in a lot of ASP on the quality front that it goes to waste if it is not really properly actualized.

因此，CPO 是其中一個要素。為此，您必須擁有自己的光學元件和/或擁有光學元件播放器的合作夥伴才能實現這一點。我只是認為距離 CPO 的出現還有很長的路要走。如果因為品質、產量、功率和占地面積等各種問題而變得可行，那麼他們如何在品質方面鎖定大量的 ASP，如果沒有真正正確地實現，那麼它就會被浪費。

Yeah. Great. Thanks, Kishore.

是的。偉大的。謝謝，基肖爾。

Karl Ackerman, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的卡爾‧阿克曼（Karl Ackerman）。

Hi, this is Sam Feldman on for Karl Ackerman. So you indicated that your DSP business will ramp in 2025 giving your engagements at hyperscalers. What gives you confidence it can double, given Amazon indicated that 800 gig may not rental 2026, positioning the DSP ramp (technical difficulty) 800 gig?

大家好，我是 Sam Feldman，代表 Karl Ackerman 報到。因此，您表示，鑑於您在超大規模領域的合作，您的 DSP 業務將在 2025 年實現成長。鑑於亞馬遜表示 2026 年可能無法出租 800G，DSP 的定位坡道（技術難度）為 800G，您如何相信它可以翻倍？

Look, there's a large, large opportunity that is 400 gig. And 800 gig really last for many, many years, and that also answers Suji's question about CPOs honestly. So our revenues are a mix of both 400 gig and 800 gig. And as Tore pointed out, we are new entrants in this market space and the third player. So we have a large revenues in the optically ticket that we can go and access.

你看，400Gig 是一個很大的機會。800Gig 確實可以使用很多年，這也誠實地回答了 Suji 關於 CPO 的問題。因此我們的收入是 400GiQ 和 800GiQ 的混合。正如托爾指出的，我們是這個市場領域的新進者和第三個參與者。因此，我們在可前往和訪問的光學票方面擁有巨大的收入。

Regarding -- there's two markets here. We have always maintained that. The line side is really delayed relative to what I call the compute side, which is the AI network and the very, very different markets. So the line-side markets are indeed delayed. Not delayed, I would say they've always been sort of (inaudible) becomes much later, and I think they're on track on the front.

關於——這裡有兩個市場。我們一直堅信這一點。相對於我所說的計算端，線路端確實存在延遲，計算端是人工智慧網路和非常非常不同的市場。所以線下市場確實有所延遲。並沒有延遲，我想說他們總是有點（聽不清楚）變得更晚，而且我認為他們正走在正軌上。

And Amazon is not the only one, right? There's Meta, there's Microsoft, and everybody else. And our roadmap, frankly, followed the cadence of the line-side markets. And we have always -- we have said that we are not a player in the NVIDIA market in terms of as being what happened in the past.

而且亞馬遜並不是唯一一家這樣的公司，對吧？有 Meta，有微軟，還有其他公司。坦白說，我們的路線圖遵循了線邊市場的節奏。我們一直都表示，就過去的情況而言，我們不是 NVIDIA 市場的參與者。

And so that is the reality of it. So I think that you are complaining about the markets and very different markets in terms of the timeline, how they're evolving. And same will be true for 1.6 terabits, by the way. I would say that it'll be a long while before 1.6 terabits or 200 gig per lambda becomes a meaningful portion of the shipment of the revenues. Until after 400 gig and 800 gig, that's really, really run their course.

這就是事實。所以我認為你抱怨的是市場，以及從時間表和發展方式來看非常不同的市場。順便說一句，1.6 太比特也是如此。我想說，1.6 太比特或每波長 200 千兆比特的傳輸量要成為收入中有意義的一部分還需要很長一段時間。直到 400Gi 和 800Gi 之後，它才真正走向成熟。

Understood. Thank you.

明白了。謝謝。

David Williams, Benchmark Company.

大衛威廉斯 (David Williams)，Benchmark Company。

Hey, good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my questions. I guess maybe first, and Kishore, I think you mentioned this in your script earlier, and I may have missed it. But just wondering if you could give us a little indication on that the 2.5G Ethernet and byproduct Swam Creek there.

嘿，先生們，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。我想也許是首先，還有 Kishore，我認為你之前在你的腳本中提到過這一點，但我可能錯過了。但我只是想知道您是否可以向我們介紹一下 2.5G 乙太網路和副產品 Swam Creek。

And I know you've talked about governments there and major Tier 1 enterprise OEM customers with multiple design wins. But how is that ramping? And maybe just say any of the color around that feedback or demand trends that you're seeing for the Swan Creek product line? Thank you.

我知道您已經談到了那裡的政府以及獲得多項設計的一級企業 OEM 主要客戶。但這是怎樣實現的？您能談談您對 Swan Creek 產品線的回饋或需求趨勢有何看法？謝謝。

So I think Swan Creek as a product goes probably one of the most successful products that we have ever designed and the kind of demand for the product. It's premier, it's highly differentiated. It's as out planned. Anybody's offering on the 200 gig -- 2.5 gigabit multi-port switch category.

因此，我認為 Swan Creek 產品可能是我們設計過的最成功的產品之一，而且產品的需求量很大。它是一流的，並且高度差異化。一切都如計劃中一樣。任何人都可以提供 200 千兆至 2.5 千兆多埠交換器類別。

And we, frankly, ourselves were quite surprised with the amount of traction it has. And it's pretty much designed with all the major players on routers and gateways and even on the industrial side as well. It's a very unique product. It can do multiple ports all the way from four to eight. And two of those switch ports can be compounded to do a 32-port solution as well.

坦白說，我們自己也對它的吸引力感到非常驚訝。它的設計幾乎與路由器、網關甚至工業方面的所有主要參與者都一致。這是一個非常獨特的產品。它可以支援從四個到八個的多個連接埠。其中兩個交換器連接埠可以組合起來，形成 32 連接埠解決方案。

So it's got extremely good traction. And with this Tier 1 OEM, we were supposed to have actually RAM stronger towards the end of last year. That has not happened, but it's gotten delayed. But the RAM continues in the sense that the plans remain intact. It's a major platform. And I believe that as we head towards the rest of the year, it will start ramping. And in '26, '27, '28, '29, it will be a pretty strong run rate position.

因此它具有極好的牽引力。有了這家一級 OEM，我們原本應該在去年年底就擁有更強大的 RAM。這事還沒發生，但是已經被延後了。但 RAM 仍在繼續，因為計劃仍然完整。這是一個重要的平台。我相信，隨著今年剩餘時間的臨近，這一趨勢將開始加速。在 26、27、28、29 年，它的運行率將相當強勁。

And the overall product really, we believe, can be $100 million per year revenue product line for ethernet over the next two to three years. And the mix would be single-fives and multi-port fives and switches in equal proportion are more tilted towards the multi-port fives and switch. Okay.

我們相信，在未來兩到三年內，整個產品線確實可以為乙太網路帶來每年 1 億美元的收入。並且組合將是單五線電纜和多端口五線電纜以及交換機，其比例相等，更傾向於多端口五線電纜和交換機。好的。

Thanks for the color there. Anything regionally that you're saying that speak of in terms of demand trends around maybe China or even North America. How are you seeing, I guess, geographically, how demand trends and anything you would point to there? Thank you.

感謝那裡的色彩。您所說的任何區域性的東西都涉及中國或甚至是北美的需求趨勢。我想，從地理角度來看，您如何看待需求趨勢以及您能指出的任何趨勢？謝謝。

Absolutely. Most of the -- all of these designs in these markets happened in Taiwan or China. And that's where most of our activity that support activities sales. That activity is up. So I would say that while the end markets are quite varied, but primarily the end markets are US and China centric, which you should expect, given the largest markets in the world, right? So we're quite happy about it.

絕對地。這些市場上的大多數設計都發生在台灣或中國。這就是我們的大多數支援活動銷售的活動。活動已開始。所以我想說，雖然終端市場相當多樣化，但主要的終端市場還是以美國和中國為中心，考慮到它們是世界上最大的市場，你應該預料到這一點，對嗎？所以我們對此感到非常高興。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Alec Valero, Loop Capital Markets.

Alec Valero 的 Loop Capital Markets。

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my question. This is Alek on for Ananda. I have two quick questions. So my first question is, as we go from 800G that 3.2T, you guys see yourself becoming -- do you guys see yourself as being more attractive to customers? If so, what do those dynamics look like?

嘿，夥計們，謝謝你們回答我的問題。這是 Alek 為 Ananda 表演的。我有兩個簡單的問題。所以我的第一個問題是，隨著我們從 800G 發展到 3.2T，你們認為自己變得——你們認為自己對客戶更有吸引力了嗎？如果是的話，這些動態是什麼樣的？

Look, really, really speaking with our -- you have the entrenched incumbents as one would duly give them credit for, which is both Marvell and Broadcom. They come at it very, very differently in terms of the competitive force, if you will.

看起來，真的，真的與我們交談 - 你擁有根深蒂固的現任者，正如人們所給予他們的信任一樣，他們是 Marvell 和 Broadcom。你可以這樣認為，從競爭力量的角度來看，他們的做法非常非常不同。

However, there's only one credible new entrenched on the optical transceiver space by far. There's nobody even close to what we offer. And what we offer is extremely low power in the 800 gigabit solution and 400 gigabit solution for 100 gig per lane design, which is the latest -- which is the newest generation of products that are ramping or will be ramping soon, like one of the analysts brought about the Amazon delay, for example.

然而，到目前為止，只有一家可靠的新公司在光收發器領域站穩了腳跟。沒有人能提供與我們相近的服務。我們提供的是800 千兆解決方案和400 千兆解決方案的超低功耗，適用於每通道100 千兆的設計，這是最新的——最新一代產品，正在或即將推出，就像其中一種例如，分析師導致亞馬遜的延遲。

So the differentiation really comes from extremely low power. And we all now know whether it's an AI network or any data center, power, power, power is the key and that's where we built our core competencies as a company. So I believe that -- and we also seen shortages on DSPs and optical module solutions in the last few years as all data centers try to upgrade to new technologies.

因此，差異化實際上來自於極低的功率。我們現在都知道，無論是人工智慧網路還是任何資料中心，電力都是關鍵，這也是我們作為一家公司建立核心競爭力的地方。所以我相信——而且由於所有資料中心都在嘗試升級到新技術，我們在過去幾年中也看到了 DSP 和光學模組解決方案的短缺。

So there's a genuine demand for a third supplier. It is where everybody wants a third supplier. And we hope to first build our position as a third supplier and then build from there. And that's been our game plan from day one. And the fact that we went to 0 to $40 million last year is proof of that. It's million units. That's pretty substantial. And hopefully, we can do much, much better this year and leading up to next year. And I think we are very pleased with the progress.

因此，對第三方供應商的需求是確實存在的。每個人都想要第三個供應商。我們希望先確立我們作為第三方供應商的地位，然後再以此為基礎進行發展。這就是我們從第一天起就制定的比賽計畫。而去年我們從 0 成長到 4,000 萬美元的事實就是證明。是百萬單位。這是相當重要的。希望我們今年和明年能夠做得更好。我認為我們對這一進展感到非常滿意。

Now, this has entailed a lot of investment on our side. I know, and all analysts, you always have OPEC's questions, but I just want to be very, very clear that this is a strategic area of interest, investment, a high-growth market area. And we intend to continue to invest very, very strongly in this space to expand our portfolio beyond the optical space.

現在，這需要我們投入大量的資金。我知道，和所有分析師一樣，你們總是對歐佩克有疑問，但我只想非常非常清楚地表明，這是一個策略利益領域、投資領域，一個高成長的市場領域。我們打算繼續在該領域投入大量資金，以擴大我們的產品組合，使其不再局限於光學領域。

Okay. I think that's where our strategic trust is right now in the infrastructure space.

好的。我認為這就是我們目前在基礎設施領域的策略信任。

Got it. Thank you. Just a quick follow up. So would you guys tech in the world of co-packaged optics? Do you guys believe that advantages you guys, disadvantages you guys, or is it net-neutral to you?

知道了。謝謝。只需快速跟進。那麼你們會涉足共封裝光學領域的技術嗎？你們認為這對你們有利，不利，還是對你們來說是網路中立的？

I would say it may be a net positive because if our competitors are invested in optics and they try to do a fully integrated CPO, there are more optics producers in the world who are more competent and really, really excellent at that. And the market capacity will require that those optics players are part of the supply ecosystem. And therefore, they need a pure-play silicon vendor and max absolutely the pure-play silicon player in this, no cables, no optics, and that sort of a thing.

我想說這可能是淨收益，因為如果我們的競爭對手在光學領域進行投資，並嘗試實現完全整合的 CPO，那麼世界上就會有更多更有能力、更出色的光學生產商。而市場容量將要求這些光學廠商成為供應生態系統的一部分。因此，他們需要一個純粹的矽片供應商和絕對純粹的矽片製造商，不需要電纜、不需要光學器件等等。

So I think it's a net positive for us from a sort of creating a pool for what we provide. And it would be the alternative that would attach the best optics along with our DSP.

所以我認為這對我們來說是一件好事，因為我們創建了一個資源池來提供我們提供的服務。這將是將最好的光學器件與我們的 DSP 連接在一起的替代方案。

Got it. Thank you for that. Appreciate it, guys.

知道了。謝謝你。感謝你們，夥計們。

Christopher Rolland, Susquehanna International Group.

薩斯奎漢納國際集團 (Susquehanna International Group) 的克里斯多福羅蘭 (Christopher Rolland)。

Hey, guys. Thanks for the question. I guess around optical, maybe if you had a range of optical units that we might expect in 2025. Like would there be a bull case to do 2 million units, or maybe even more, or put another way, maybe market share?

嘿，大家好。謝謝你的提問。我想在光學方面，也許如果你有一系列我們可能在 2025 年期待的光學單元。例如，是否有可能生產 200 萬台甚至更多，或者換句話說，也許是市場佔有率？

And maybe tying into this, Kishore, you talked about low power. How should we think about low power as you move to 4 nanometers, but competitors move to 3? Or are you still have that advantage?

或許與此相關，Kishore，您談到了低功耗。當您轉向 4 奈米而競爭對手轉向 3 奈米時，我們應該如何考慮低功耗？或者說你仍然有那個優勢？

So I'll let Steve talk to you about some of the colors on the -- I just want to add these things that obviously competitive advantages and power and performance are incredibly important. We take that seriously. And we are absolutely confident we'll come out this thing. And that's the secret sauce of our design and architectural capabilities. That's number one.

因此，我會讓史蒂夫跟你們談談一些顏色——我只想補充一點，顯然競爭優勢、力量和表現非常重要。我們對此非常重視。我們絕對有信心能夠解決這個問題。這就是我們的設計和建築能力的秘密。這是第一點。

And the other part is the whole thing is like last I checked the latest report, that 20 million units of transceiver modules are shipped. And we have told you that 1 million units we have shipped. So I know it's not about 10% right now. I'm pretty proud of the 5% market share, right? But that's the way I would give it.

另一部分是整件事情就像我上次檢查的最新報告一樣，收發器模組的出貨量為 2000 萬個。我們告訴過你們，我們已經出貨 100 萬台。所以我知道現在還不是 10% 左右。我對 5% 的市場份額已經很自豪了，對吧？但這就是我會給予的方式。

But beyond that, we don't provide color on these because there are various uncertainties on timing and that sort of a thing. But I would stand by the guidance that Steve earlier talked about, $60 million to $70 million. Yeah, you should expect that. Can we do better? I desperately want us to do much better than that. So that much I promise you. Okay.

但除此之外，我們不會提供這些細節，因為時間等方面有各種不確定性。但我堅持史蒂夫之前談到的指導價格，即 6,000 萬至 7,000 萬美元。是的，你應該預料到這一點。我們可以做得更好嗎？我迫切希望我們能做得更好。所以我就向你保證這麼多。好的。

Great. And Kishore, maybe just revisiting Tore's question and all this concern about DeepSeq this week. I mean, it had your stock off quite a bit itself, maybe not as much as others, but was still off. And I understand your comments about democratizing AI, but it seems like democratizing AI on open-source hardware is not very networking intensive.

偉大的。而 Kishore，也許只是重新審視 Tore 的問題和本週對 DeepSeq 的所有擔憂。我的意思是，它本身就讓你的股票下跌了不少，也許沒有其他股票下跌那麼多，但還是下跌了。我理解您關於人工智慧民主化的評論，但似乎在開源硬體上實現人工智慧民主化並不需要太多的網路密集。

And so I just kind of wanted to revisit this. How these more efficient architectures might affect either inference in your opinion or training in your opinion, and mega clusters, for example, that seem to be very optically intensive? Just in terms of DSPs units, transceiver volumes for you guys. And if there was some sort of a reset in order rates, when would we know? It doesn't sound like you've seen anything over the past week in terms of a reset, but any thoughts on how this would play out or when we would know?

所以我只是想重新回顧這一點。您認為這些更有效率的架構將如何影響推理或訓練，以及例如似乎非常光學密集的大型叢集？僅就 DSP 單元、收發器容量而言。如果有某種形式的訂單利率重置，我們什麼時候會知道？聽起來你在過去一周沒有看到任何重置方面的跡象，但你對這將如何進行或我們何時會知道有什麼想法嗎？

Well, this weakness is two chart, number one. Number two is that, look, these dynamics are beyond my understanding. And all I know is that we make extremely good products, very low power, high performance. And the demand is huge enough even otherwise.

嗯，這個弱點有兩張圖，第一張。第二，這些動態超出了我的理解範圍。我所知道的是，我們生產的產品非常優質，功耗極低，性能極高。即便如此，需求也夠巨大。

Before the AI world happened, that's when we started on the roadmap, right? There was chatGPT before, right? Nobody knew there was chatGPT and that would drive the market. And likewise, I don't know what DeepSeq is going to do. But all I know is that even if there were no AI networks present, the market was very, very huge.

在人工智慧世界出現之前，我們就已經開始製定路線圖了，對嗎？之前有 chatGPT 吧？沒有人知道有 chatGPT，而且它會推動市場發展。同樣，我不知道 DeepSeq 會做什麼。但我所知道的是，即使沒有人工智慧網絡，市場也是非常非常巨大的。

So from my point of view, it's a fantastic market. There is no reaction from me in any direction. Stay the course. The market will be exciting for us, for MaxLinier. And I really don't have thoughts about this, but I don't think we should be surprised of disruptive innovations. And that would make us more competitive.

所以從我的角度來看，這是一個非常棒的市場。我對此沒有任何反應。堅持下去。對我們、對 MaxLinier 來說，這個市場將會令人興奮。我確實沒有對此有過想法，但我認為我們不應該對顛覆性創新感到驚訝。這將使我們更具競爭力。

And we have a huge appetite as human beings, right? We just eat whatever comes, how much over cheap it is, right? So we'll just gobble more of it. But the tab dollars I don't expect to reduce, okay?

身為人類，我們的胃口很大，對嗎？隨便吃點什麼，多便宜啊，對吧？因此我們只會狼吞虎嚥地吃更多。但我不希望減少帳單金額，好嗎？

Great answer. Thanks, Kishore.

很好的答案。謝謝，基肖爾。

Tore Svanberg, Stifel.

托爾·思文伯格（Tore Svanberg），Stifel 公司。

Yes. I just had a follow-up, Kishore, because there was a lot of talk about your optical DSP business. But you have also announced getting into AEC, ACC. There is obviously a discreet TIA market out there. So can you just talk a little bit about that when we think about that $60 million, $70 million, is that predominantly optical DSP? Or are you also starting to see some contribution from AEC, ACC, and discreet TIAs?

是的。我剛剛進行了跟進，Kishore，因為有很多關於您的光學 DSP 業務的討論。但你們也宣布進入 AEC、ACC。顯然，存在一個謹慎的 TIA 市場。那麼，您能否稍微談一下，當我們想到 6,000 萬美元、7,000 萬美元時，這主要是光學 DSP 嗎？或者您也開始看到 AEC、ACC 和離散 TIA 的一些貢獻？

And one of your largest competitors just announced LPO here before the end of the year. So I assume, given your capabilities, you are now probably working on LPO as well, right?

你們最大的競爭對手之一剛剛在今年年底前宣布了 LPO。因此，我假設，鑑於您的能力，您現在可能也在從事 LPO 工作，對嗎？

Absolutely, I mean, LPO is just a derivative of what we do on the larger DSPs. I don't know why people make such a big deal about LPO. Anybody can do this with the DSP PAM4. There just needs to be three people, but still, number one.

當然，我的意思是，LPO 只是我們在更大的 DSP 上所做工作的衍生品。我不知道為什麼人們如此重視 LPO。任何人都可以使用 DSP PAM4 來做到這一點。只要有三個人就可以，但還是第一名。

Our revenues predominantly, they are 800 gig and some 400 gig, and they will be some AEC. Having said that, the AEC market is still pretty small. And we are -- and the market being small, and one data center until now trying to deploy AECs. It's still the verdict remains unclear whether it's going to be a sort of across the board promulgation because there are dynamics a copper side that are quite different.

我們的收入主要是800Giq和一些400Giq，有些是AEC。話雖如此，AEC 市場仍然很小。而且我們 — — 市場規模很小，到目前為止只有一個資料中心嘗試部署 AEC。目前還不清楚這是否會是一種全面的頒布，因為銅方面的動態有很大不同。

So without getting into the details, our own revenues are dominated by the 800 gig, 400 gig, and some AEC. We do have AECs that have already qualified, and therefore, we expect revenues to start. How big? I don't think it's still a big market there that would overrule many of the optical revenues that we will be generating.

因此，無需深入討論細節，我們自己的收入主要來自 800GiQ、400GiQ 和一些 AEC。我們確實有一些已經獲得資格的 AEC，因此我們預計收入將開始。有多大？我不認為那裡仍然有一個很大的市場，能夠影響我們所產生的大部分光學收入。

So regarding the LPO's, I think I've answered that question. ACC is even more tiny, and I think that verdict remains very questionable. If ACCs are questionable in terms of market size, ACC's propagation. But we have our eyes set on all of these targets, right? And we're not pulling back.

關於 LPO，我想我已經回答了這個問題。ACC 甚至更小，我認為這個判決仍然值得懷疑。如果ACC在市場規模、ACC的傳播上有疑問。但我們已經瞄準了所有這些目標，對嗎？我們不會退縮。

We are doing everything, design-ins and so on and so forth. But I'm just being an honest assessment of our own revenues where they are. So the answer to your question is affirmative.

我們做一切事情，設計等等。但我只是對我們的收入狀況進行誠實的評估。因此，對於你的問題，答案是肯定的。

On the TIAs, clearly, we are one of the three DSP vendors on the optical side. And we work with partners on the TIAs, but it is foolhardy for us to think that we will be able to sell TIAs to our other two competitors on their platforms, right? So the expectation for our TIAs is so much more predominantly controlling our own platform and destiny and being cost competitive and power competitive, not as much as trying to build a TIA business. So I'm just making sure you understand that TIAs as a revenue stream is really attached to our DSPs and not -- I'm not aware of anything outside of that environment in terms of our go-to-market plan.

就 TIA 而言，顯然我們是光學方面的三大 DSP 供應商之一。我們與合作夥伴共同開發 TIA，但我們認為能夠在其他兩個競爭對手的平台上向他們銷售 TIA 是愚蠢的，對嗎？因此，我們對 TIA 的期望主要是控制我們自己的平台和命運，並在成本和功率上具有競爭力，而不是試圖建立 TIA 業務。因此，我只是想確保你明白，TIA 作為收入來源確實與我們的 DSP 相關，而不是——就我們的市場進入計劃而言，我不知道該環境之外的任何情況。

Yeah, that's exactly the color I was looking for. Thank you, Kishore.

是的，這正是我想要的顏色。謝謝你，基肖爾。

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to pass the floor back over to Kishore for closing remarks.

謝謝。目前沒有其他問題。我想將發言權交還給基肖爾，請他作最後發言。

So thank you, operator. And I want to once again thank every one of you. Hey, Happy New Year. You all sounded muted. Just wake up. It's all exciting times moving forward, and I would wish you a happy new year once again.

所以謝謝你，接線生。我要再次感謝你們每一個人。嘿，新年快樂。你們聽起來都很沉默。快醒。這一切都是令人興奮的時刻，我再次祝您新年快樂。

And this quarter, we'll be presenting a number of financial conference and virtual events. We'll post the details on our investor relations page. Thank you very much, and happy new year once again to all of you.

本季度，我們將舉辦多場金融會議和虛擬活動。我們將在投資者關係頁面上發布詳細資訊。非常感謝大家，再次祝大家新年快樂。

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的電話會議到此結束。現在您可以斷開您的線路。感謝您的參與。