AG Mortgage Investment Trust Inc (MITT) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

(Operator Instructions) Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the AG Mortgage Investment Trust Inc third-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) I'd now like to turn the call over to Jenny Neslin, General Counsel for the company. Please go ahead.

（操作說明）您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 AG Mortgage Investment Trust Inc 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。（操作員指示）現在我想把電話轉交給公司總法律顧問珍妮‧內斯林。請繼續。

Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the third quarter of 2025 earnings call for AG Mortgage Investment Trust. With me on the call today are TJ Durkin, our CEO and President; Nick Smith, our Chief Investment Officer; and Anthony Rasciello, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝。各位早安，歡迎參加 AG Mortgage Investment Trust 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。今天和我一起參加電話會議的有：我們的執行長兼總裁 TJ Durkin；我們的首席投資長 Nick Smith；以及我們的財務長 Anthony Rasciello。

Before we begin, please note that the information discussed in today's call may contain forward-looking statements. Any forward-looking statements made during today's call are subject to certain risks and uncertainties which are outlined in our SEC filings, including under the headings cautionary statement regarding forward-looking statements, risk factors, and management discussion and analysis.

在開始之前，請注意，今天電話會議中討論的資訊可能包含前瞻性陳述。今天電話會議中所做的任何前瞻性陳述均受某些風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性已在我們的美國證券交易委員會文件中列出，包括有關前瞻性陳述的警示性聲明、風險因素以及管理層討論和分析等標題下的內容。

The company's actual results may differ materially from these statements. We encourage you to read the disclosure regarding forward-looking statements contained in our SEC filings, including our most recently filed Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2024, and our subsequent reports filed from time to time with the SEC. Except as required by law, we are not obligated and do not intend to update or to revise or review any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise.

本公司的實際業績可能與這些聲明有重大差異。我們鼓勵您閱讀我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中包含的有關前瞻性聲明的披露信息，包括我們最近提交的截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日止年度的 10-K 表格，以及我們隨後不時向美國證券交易委員會提交的報告。除法律要求外，我們沒有義務也不打算更新、修改或審查任何前瞻性聲明，無論是由於新資訊、未來事件或其他原因。

During the call today, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to our SEC filings for reconciliation to the most comparable GAAP measures. We will also reference the earnings presentation that was posted to our website this morning. To view the slide presentation, turn to our website www.agmit.com and click on the link for the Q3 2025 earnings presentation on the homepage.

在今天的電話會議中，我們將提及一些非GAAP財務指標。請查閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以了解與最可比較的公認會計準則指標的調節情況。我們也會參考今天早上發佈在我們網站上的收益報告。要查看幻燈片演示，請訪問我們的網站 www.agmit.com，然後點擊首頁上的 2025 年第三季收益演示文稿連結。

Again, welcome to the call, and thank you for joining us today. With that, I'd like to turn the call over to TJ.

再次歡迎您參加本次電話會議，感謝您今天的參與。那麼，我想把電話交給TJ。

Thank you, Jenny. I'm pleased to report MIT's third-quarter results in which the company had one of its most active and successful quarters in recent memory. During the third quarter, we were able to increase our book value from $10.39 to $10.46, inclusive of our previously announced strategic acquisition of an additional 21.4% -- 24% of Arc Home through the issuance of approximately 2 million shares, creating a one-time dilution event of 1.8% while also fully supporting our $0.21 dividend. The company continues to provide stability and book value performance, navigating both challenging markets, and executing on growth initiatives like the one I just mentioned. We continue to believe growing the company's size and float is in the long-term best interests of its shareholders.

謝謝你，珍妮。我很高興地向大家報告麻省理工學院第三季的業績，這是該公司近年來最活躍、最成功的一個季度。第三季度，我們透過發行約 200 萬股股票，對 Arc Home 進行了策略性收購，增持了 21.4% 至 24% 的股份，從而將帳面價值從 10.39 美元提高到 10.46 美元，這造成了一次性 1.8% 的股權稀釋，同時也完全支持了我們 0.21 美元的股息。公司持續保持穩定，帳面價值表現良好，既能應付充滿挑戰的市場，又能執行像我剛才提到的成長計畫。我們仍然認為，擴大公司規模和增加流通股符合股東的長期最佳利益。

Moving on to earnings, we increased our EAD to $0.23 per share, driven by strong earnings from our core investment portfolio. In this first quarter, with our larger ownership percentage of Arc Home, we are happy to report it contributed $0.03 towards EAD as the business continues to execute on its growth and profitability objectives. Lastly, it is important to note we were able to deliver this growth in the EAD despite turning off the accrual of our legacy WMC CRE loans this year as we work through the monetization process.

接下來談談收益，由於核心投資組合的強勁收益，我們將每股收益預期提高至 0.23 美元。在本季度，隨著我們對 Arc Home 的持股比例增加，我們很高興地報告，該公司為 EAD 貢獻了 0.03 美元，因為該公司繼續執行其成長和獲利目標。最後，值得注意的是，儘管我們今年停止了對傳統 WMC CRE 貸款的累積，並推進了貨幣化進程，但我們仍然能夠在 EAD 實現這一增長。

So as we look forward, the ability to rotate this equity capital currently invested in the CRE loans into our residential securitization strategy combined with Arc Home profits should enable us to unlock even more earnings power from our portfolio in the coming quarters.

展望未來，將目前投資於商業房地產貸款的股權資本輪換到我們的住宅證券化策略中，再加上 Arc Home 的利潤，應該能夠讓我們在未來幾個季度從我們的投資組合中釋放出更大的盈利能力。

I'll now turn the call over to Nick.

現在我將把電話交給尼克。

Thanks, TJ. The company had an extremely active quarter. We have made significant progress in rotating equity into core strategies, growing the investment portfolio, de-risking and optimizing financing, and accelerating growth at our portfolio company, Arc Home, along with other significant steps forward.

謝謝你，TJ。該公司本季業務非常活躍。我們在將股權輪調到核心策略、擴大投資組合、降低風險和優化融資以及加速投資組合公司 Arc Home 的成長等方面取得了重大進展，此外還取得了其他重大進展。

Getting into specifics. Starting with rotation. We monetized close to $55 million market value of legacy WMC securitized non-QM positions, after restructuring these holdings and unwinding expensive and under advanced debt that came with the WMC acquisition. I will speak more about this later.

深入細節。從旋轉開始。在重組這些持股並解除 WMC 收購帶來的昂貴且不足的債務後，我們實現了 WMC 遺留的非合格證券化頭寸近 5,500 萬美元的市場價值。我稍後會詳細談談這個問題。

An additional $11 million of equity came back from a legacy WMC's CMBS position that paid off at par. In aggregate, the company freed up nearly $66 million of equity for redeployment. With this capital, we significantly increased the investment portfolio by over 20% this quarter. We acquired over $1.7 billion of residential mortgage loans. Approximately $900 million was allocated to agency-eligible investor loans and over $800 million to home equity loans, including both closed and seconds and HELOCs. Most of these acquisitions were immediately financed into four separate securitizations. We'd like to point out that this significant growth was achieved without incurring risks to the company through outsized gestation periods or warehouse financing exposure.

WMC 先前持有的 CMBS 部位獲得了額外的 1,100 萬美元股權，以面額償還。總計，該公司釋放了近 6,600 萬美元的股權用於重新部署。憑藉這筆資金，我們本季大幅增加了投資組合，增幅超過 20%。我們獲得了超過17億美元的住宅抵押貸款。其中約 9 億美元分配給了符合機構資格的投資者貸款，超過 8 億美元分配給了房屋淨值貸款，包括已完成的貸款、二次貸款和房屋淨值信用額度貸款。這些收購項目大多立即透過四項獨立的證券化融資完成。我們想指出，這一顯著增長是在沒有因過長的培育期或倉儲融資風險而給公司帶來風險的情況下實現的。

Likewise, the company's leverage increased modestly from [1.3 to 1.7] terms quarter over quarter, which we see as more normal levels. Moving on to the company's financing activity. As alluded to earlier and mentioned briefly in our previous quarter's prepared remarks, we refinanced high cost, inefficient debt backed by retaining interests and WMC issued non-ANC securitizations.

同樣，該公司的槓桿率環比小幅上升，從 1.3 倍增加到 1.7 倍，我們認為這是較正常的水平。接下來談談公司的融資活動。如同先前所提到的，並在我們上一季的準備發言稿中簡要提及，我們對高成本、低效的債務進行了再融資，這些債務由保留利息支持，並且 WMC 發行了非 ANC 證券化產品。

This refinancing freed up $55 million of equity to redeploy and materially lowered the cost of capital while significantly increasing the market value advance. This quarter's EAD was boosted by approximately $0.03 by this refinancing, which normalizes to $0.04 to $0.05 for a full quarter looking forward.

此次再融資釋放了 5,500 萬美元的股權可供重新部署，大幅降低了資本成本，同時顯著提高了市場價值。由於此次再融資，本季 EAD 增加了約 0.03 美元，預計未來一個完整季度的 EAD 將恢復至 0.04 美元至 0.05 美元。

Moving on from financing to Arc Home. Simultaneous with the announcement of last quarter's earnings, we acquired an additional 21.4% ownership of Arc Home. We are happy to report earnings of over $2 million this quarter, which contributes approximately $1.2 million to MIT, the highest since the end of 2021. In September, they achieved record block volumes. We believe this growth and profitability is sustainable as the non-ANC market continues to increase its share.

接下來從融資方面轉向Arc Home。在公佈上一季收益的同時，我們收購了 Arc Home 的額外 21.4% 股份。我們很高興地宣布，本季獲利超過 200 萬美元，其中約 120 萬美元將捐贈給麻省理工學院，這是自 2021 年底以來的最高水準。9月份，他們的區塊交易量創下歷史新高。我們相信，隨著非ANC市場價值的持續成長，這種成長和獲利能力是可持續的。

Before passing the call over to Anthony, I'd like to touch upon an item others have been addressing call rights. Prior to quarter end, we initiated the sale of the underlying collateral to a third-party in connection with the termination of a transaction issued in 2022. We see significant value in call rights from transactions issued in 2022 and 2023. We expect the termination of this transaction, along with others in the future to return capital that can be opportunistically redeployed into our core higher returning investment strategies. Over to you, Anthony.

在將電話交給安東尼之前，我想談談其他人一直在討論的問題，即通話權利。在季度末之前，我們啟動了將基礎抵押品出售給第三方的程序，以終止 2022 年發行的一項交易。我們認為 2022 年和 2023 年發行的交易中的贖回權具有重要價值。我們預計此交易的終止，以及未來其他交易的終止，將釋放出資金，這些資金可以伺機重新部署到我們核心的高回報投資策略。接下來就看你的了，安東尼。

Thank you, Nick, and good morning. The third quarter was a pivotal one for MIT. We rotated a significant amount of capital from legacy WMC assets, boosting our earnings power, executed four securitizations, acquired an additional 21.4% interest in Arc Home, and delivered EAD in excess of our dividend.

謝謝你，尼克，早安。第三季對麻省理工學院來說至關重要。我們從WMC的傳統資產中輪換了大量資金，提高了我們的盈利能力，完成了四項證券化交易，收購了Arc Home的額外21.4%股份，並實現了超過我們股息的EAD。

During the quarter, book value rose 0.7% to $10.46 per share. Including our dividend of $0.21 per share, we generated a 2.7% economic return for our shareholders. It's worth noting that our book value grew even after accounting for 1.8% dilution from the shares issued for the additional Arc Home interest, which underscores the strong performance of our investment portfolio.

本季，帳面價值成長0.7%，達到每股10.46美元。包括每股 0.21 美元的股息在內，我們為股東創造了 2.7% 的經濟回報。值得注意的是，即使計入因收購 Arc Home 額外股份而導致的 1.8% 的股權稀釋，我們的帳面價值仍然增長，這凸顯了我們投資組合的強勁表現。

GAAP net income available to common shareholders was $14.6 million or $0.47 per share. Strong asset appreciation driven by spread tightening on residential mortgage loans and non-agency RMBS offset the dilution from Arc Home and unrealized losses on commercial investments.

歸屬於普通股股東的GAAP淨利為1,460萬美元，即每股0.47美元。房屋抵押貸款和非機構RMBS利差收窄推動的強勁資產增值抵消了Arc Home的稀釋效應和商業投資的未實現損失。

Residential investments continue to drive earnings, with net interest income increasing by $1.7 million, or 9% from prior quarter, resulting from refinancing high-cost legacy WMC debt and rotating a significant portion of capital into higher yielding assets. EAD increased to $0.23 per share from $0.18 in Q2. Net interest income, including interest from our hedges, was $0.67 per share, and exceeded our operating expenses, income taxes, and preferred dividends of $0.47, resulting in net earnings of $0.20 per share.

住宅投資繼續推動盈利，淨利息收入較上一季增加 170 萬美元，增幅達 9%，這得益於對高成本遺留 WMC 債務進行再融資，並將相當一部分資本輪換到收益更高的資產中。EAD 從第二季的每股 0.18 美元增至每股 0.23 美元。包括對沖利息在內的淨利息收入為每股 0.67 美元，超過了我們的營運費用、所得稅和優先股股息 0.47 美元，從而實現了每股 0.20 美元的淨收益。

In addition to EAD growth from our investment portfolio, Arc Home contributed $0.03 per share to EAD, supported by continued growth in originations and margins. We grew our investment portfolio by 21% to $8.8 billion through securitization activity and continue to operate with a low level of economic leverage at $1.7 billion terms. During the quarter we purchased and simultaneously securitized $764 million of agency eligible loans and $647 million of close and second liens.

除了投資組合帶來的 EAD 成長外，Arc Home 還為 EAD 貢獻了每股 0.03 美元，這得益於貸款發放量和利潤率的持續成長。我們透過證券化活動將投資組合成長了 21%，達到 88 億美元，並繼續以 17 億美元的低經濟槓桿水準運作。本季我們購買並同時證券化了 7.64 億美元的機構合格貸款和 6.47 億美元的結清貸款和第二留置權貸款。

We also securitized $301 million of helocks held on warehouse at June 30. And purchase an additional $122 million to continue growing that portfolio. Since expanding into home equity in the fourth quarter of 2024, our investment portfolio includes $1 billion of loans and $52 million of non-agency RMBS collateralized by home equity loans, now representing 30% of our equity allocation.

我們也對截至 6 月 30 日存放在倉庫中的價值 3.01 億美元的海洛克進行了證券化。此外，還將斥資 1.22 億美元用於繼續擴大投資組合。自 2024 年第四季拓展至房屋淨值領域以來，我們的投資組合包括 10 億美元的貸款和 5,200 萬美元的非機構房屋淨值抵押貸款支持證券 (RMBS)，這些貸款和證券均以房屋淨值貸款作為抵押，目前占我們權益配置的 30%。

As mentioned earlier, we acquired an additional 21.4% interest in Arc Home for $16 million bringing our ownership to 66%. This investment was completed through the issuance of 2 million shares of restricted common stock and as discussed last quarter, will continue to be reported as an equity method investment at fair value.

如前所述，我們以 1,600 萬美元收購了 Arc Home 的額外 21.4% 股份，使我們的持股比例達到 66%。這項投資是透過發行 200 萬股限制性普通股完成的，並且正如上個季度所討論的那樣，將繼續作為權益法投資以公允價值進行報告。

Lastly, we ended the quarter with total liquidity of approximately $104 million consisting of $59 million in cash, $44 million of committed financing available on unlevered home equity loans, and $1 million of unencumbered agency RMBS.

最後，本季末我們的總流動資金約為 1.04 億美元，其中包括 5,900 萬美元現金、4,400 萬美元可用於無槓桿房屋淨值貸款的承諾融資，以及 100 萬美元無抵押機構 RMBS。

This concludes our prepared remarks, and we now like to open the call for questions.

我們的演講稿到此結束，現在我們歡迎大家提問。

(Operator Instructions) Doug Harter, UBS.

（操作說明）道格·哈特，瑞銀集團。

Thanks. Hoping you could expand a little bit more about the call, right. Either the amount of capital that could be freed up or how you think about the return differential on the call deals versus freshly deployed capital?

謝謝。希望您能再詳細說明一下這次通話的情況，好嗎？是考慮可以釋放多少資金，還是考慮選擇權交易與新投入資金之間的回報差異？

Certainly, so near term, we see call $15 million to $30 million of equity that can be redeployed, more of an intermediate term, call it three to four quarters that could be $50 million-plus. If you think about 2022 and '23, the capital markets were fairly inefficient, spreads were relatively wide wide. So given where interest rates have retraced along with credit spreads, we see a good amount of upside to be able to unlock that, redeploy the equity. Obviously, we could just refinance those, but I think our current strategy -- given how those loans are performed well, there's a good chance that we'll look to recycle that equity via the sale loans, but are open to other alternatives. But either way, accretive versus how we currently hold those positions.

當然，短期內，我們預計可以重新部署 1,500 萬至 3,000 萬美元的股權；中期來看，大約三到四個季度，可能會達到 5,000 萬美元以上。回顧 2022 年和 2023 年，資本市場效率相當低下，利差也相對較大。鑑於利率和信用利差已經回落，我們看到了釋放這些資金、重新部署股權的巨大上漲空間。顯然，我們可以對這些貸款進行再融資，但我認為我們目前的策略——鑑於這些貸款表現良好，我們很有可能會透過出售貸款來回收這些股權，但我們也對其他替代方案持開放態度。但無論如何，與我們目前持有這些部位的方式相比，都是增值型的。

Great. And then can you give us an update on the on the CRE loans, the non accrual? What's their status potential for timing of resolution?

偉大的。那麼，您能否向我們介紹一下商業房地產貸款和非應計利息的最新情況？它們的狀態在解決時間上有什麼潛在影響？

Yeah, sure. So the hospitality loans are still progressing towards our original resolution plan. At this point we think it's realistic to have that capital return in the first half of 2026. So that's just kind of going through the original motions. I think the retail property actually just hit its maturity date this quarter, and so we're in the early stage of working through the options there. On that note, I would say, Doug, it's important -- that note is actually still cash flowing from the underlying property. So I think we have some more options there as well.

當然可以。因此，酒店業貸款問題仍在按照我們最初的解決方案計劃推進。目前我們認為在 2026 年上半年實現資本回報是現實的。所以這只是重複之前的步驟而已。我認為該零售物業實際上在本季度剛剛到期，因此我們目前還處於研究各種方案的早期階段。說到這裡，我想說，道格，這一點很重要——這張票據實際上仍然是來自標的房產的現金流。所以我覺得我們在這方面還有一些選擇。

And can you just remind us the amount of capital that could come back on the hospitality?

您能否提醒我們一下，旅館業能帶來多少資本回報？

Well, it's $30 million on the total. I think it's about $23 million on the hospitality. And then $7.5 million on the (inaudible).

總共是3000萬美元。我認為酒店招待方面的花費大約是 2300 萬美元。然後還有750萬美元（聽不清楚）

Great, appreciate it. Thank you.

太好了，謝謝。謝謝。

Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

克里斯平·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

Thank you, good morning, everyone. First, can you talk a little about securitizations. Just how the receptivity has been you did four in the quarter. And just as you look forward, what do you think a normal cadence could be on the securitization side?

謝謝大家，早安。首先，您能談談證券化嗎？你們這季做了四項，反應如何？展望未來，您認為證券化的正常節奏會是什麼樣的呢？

Yeah. The expectation going forward is probably not as many as we did this quarter, but it's probably more like one to two a quarter. The securitization markets themselves are healthy. If anything, we've sort of transitioned into positive net supply, and if anything, the inflows across different investment-type vehicles companies have been robust and have met that supply. We are off of the beginning of the year tights at the top of the capital stack, but the bottom of the capital stack is a good amount tighter. We see issuance as a relatively healthy period.

是的。預計未來一段時間內，數量可能不會像本季那麼多，但可能每季會有一到兩個。證券化市場本身運作健康。如果有什麼變化的話，那就是我們已經某種程度上過渡到了正淨供應，而且，不同投資型工具公司的資金流入一直很強勁，滿足了這一供應需求。我們已經擺脫了年初資本結構頂端的緊縮局面，但資本結構底部的緊縮程度要大得多。我們認為發行期是一個相對健康的時期。

Okay, perfect. And then just if you could just share your thoughts on credit broadly, and then within -- they started to be some concerns, some from from banks, obviously some fraud involved, some weakness in the consumer. But curious on your thoughts on credit and then drilling down into MIT whether it's non-QM or other areas. I know the delinquency metrics are still fairly low, but just want to get your sense there.

好的，完美。然後，如果您能分享您對信貸的看法，以及在信貸內部的一些擔憂——顯然，有些擔憂來自銀行，有些涉及欺詐，有些是消費者自身的弱點。但我很好奇你對學分的看法，然後深入探討麻省理工學院，無論是非量子力學領域還是其他領域。我知道目前的違約率仍然很低，但我只是想了解你的看法。

Are you focusing on like performance or the the fraud issues?

你們關注的是業績表現還是詐欺問題？

Performance.

表現。

On the performance side, look, we've had a differentiated strategy. Our book has outperformed both on the agency eligible investor side and non-QM side, along with the home equity side. I think it's worth noting, and we've thrown these statistics out in the past, that our agency-eligible investor book is actually performing better than Prime Jumbo, and our non-QM continues to outperform the broader markets issuance. So I think there's a credit selection story there.

從業績方面來看，我們採取了差異化的策略。我們的產品在符合機構投資者資格的投資者、非合格抵押貸款投資者以及房屋淨值投資者方面都表現出色。我認為值得一提的是，我們過去也曾提到過這些統計數據，那就是我們符合機構資格的投資者債券組合實際上表現優於Prime Jumbo債券組合，而且我們的非合格市場債券繼續跑贏更廣泛的市場發行債券。所以我認為這裡面涉及信用選擇的問題。

We have seen some slight weakness in other people's production, but we feel like that's isolated, and I feel like the housing story is well telegraphed that, while there is some weakness geographically, it's in places where, supply has been reverted or gone through 2018, '19, '20 levels. But we believe that is contained and we feel strongly about our current position and our current portfolio.

我們看到其他人的生產略有疲軟，但我們覺得這只是個別現象。而且我覺得房屋市場的情況已經很明顯了，雖然在某些地區存在疲軟，但這些疲軟都發生在供應已經恢復到 2018 年、2019 年、2020 年水準的地方。但我們相信這種情況是可以控制的，我們對目前的狀況和投資組合充滿信心。

Great, thank you. I appreciate you taking my questions.

太好了，謝謝。感謝您回答我的問題。

Bowes George, KBW.

鮑斯·喬治，KBW。

Hey, guys, good morning. Given the timing of the purchase of the Arc, the incremental piece, did you guys get the full quarter of that this quarter, or is there a catch up on that as well?

嘿，各位，早安。考慮到購買 Arc 的時間，也就是增量部分，你們這季是否已經收到全部款項，還是也需要補交？

No. For the transaction was executed on August 1, so it's really only two months of that EAD that you see coming through. So to the extent, performance continues to have a pick up in our quarters.

不。由於交易是在 8 月 1 日執行的，所以你實際看到的 EAD 卡有效期只有兩個月。因此，就目前而言，我們各季度的業績持續改善。

Okay. And your commentary suggested that the EAD there should be flat up up going forward just given the trends you've seen there.

好的。你的評論表明，鑑於你所看到的趨勢，那裡的 EAD 未來應該會保持平穩上升。

That's right.

這是正確的。

Okay, great. And then can you give us an update on book value quarter to date?

好的，太好了。那麼，您能否提供本季迄今的帳面價值數據？

Yeah just given where we are in the process, we don't have an update for you today.

是的，鑑於我們目前的進展情況，今天我們無法向您提供最新消息。

Okay, that's fair. And then if you guys noted that growing the company is in the best interests of shareholders, which makes sense, what are some of the options and it is buying in more of Arc a possibility? Can you just talk about potential options for you guys?

好吧，這很合理。如果你們認為發展公司符合股東的最佳利益（這很有道理），那麼有哪些選擇？增持 Arc 的股份是否可行？你們能談談有哪些可能的選擇嗎？

Yeah, I mean, I think we're very inquisitive on other types of opportunities to build a more robust investment platform for the company. So whether that's working with other originators or other platforms, obviously being conscious of solution, et cetera. But I think, we're certainly open to other ideas.

是的，我的意思是，我認為我們對其他類型的機會非常感興趣，以便為公司建立一個更強大的投資平台。所以，無論是與其他發起人還是其他平台合作，顯然都要有意識地尋找解決方案等等。但我認為，我們當然樂於接受其他想法。

Okay, great, thank you.

好的，太好了，謝謝。

Trevor Cranston, JMP.

Trevor Cranston，JMP。

Hey, thanks. Good morning. Can you just give us an update on where you guys see the ROE and economics on doing new securitizations, given the spread tightening we saw during the third quarter? And how it compares to where things were earlier in the year? Thanks.

嘿，謝謝。早安.鑑於第三季利差收窄，你們能否更新一下對新證券化產品的淨資產收益率和經濟效益的看法？與今年早些時候的情況相比，現在的情況如何？謝謝。

So probably where you can place debt versus the tightening still shakes out to largely similar equity returns. Obviously, that matters on you know what part of the capital stack you're attaching to and the amount of leverage you take. Given our current leverage profile and the assets that we're trafficking in, we still see comfortable -- comfortably equity returns with modest leverage in the mid- to high-teens.

所以，無論你選擇哪種債務投資方式，緊縮政策最終帶來的股權回報可能仍然與債務投資大致相同。顯然，這取決於你了解你投資的是資本結構的哪一部分以及你採取的槓桿幅度。鑑於我們目前的槓桿水平和我們交易的資產，我們仍然認為，在適度槓桿的情況下，股權回報可以達到15%到10%的水平，相當可觀。

Got it. Okay. And then with the rally we've seen in mortgage rates, have you guys seen any notable increase in pre-pay speeds on either the non-QM or the agency eligible part of the portfolio? And does that have any sort of meaningful impact on the expected returns on those retained investments?

知道了。好的。隨著抵押貸款利率的上漲，你們是否注意到，無論是非合格抵押貸款還是符合機構貸款條件的貸款組合，提前還款的速度都有明顯的加快？這會對這些留存投資的預期回報產生任何實質影響嗎？

Yeah, so we have seen some uptick in pre-payments, albeit modest and albeit relatively early on. From a return standpoint, we feel like the portfolio was well balanced between the derivative portions and then the credit portions. And don't expect book value to be materially impacted by large pickups.

是的，我們已經看到預付款增加，儘管增幅不大，而且出現的時間也相對較早。從收益的角度來看，我們認為該投資組合在衍生性商品部分和信貸部分之間達到了良好的平衡。而且，不要指望大宗收購會對帳面價值產生實質影響。

In pre-payments, it is worth noting that there are large portions of the portfolio that even into a pretty meaningful rally are still wildly out of the money, which provides a good amount of stability even into a right rally.

值得注意的是，在提前還款方面，即使出現相當大的上漲行情，投資組合中仍有很大一部分資產處於嚴重價外狀態，這即使在右傾上漲行情中也能提供相當程度的穩定性。

Okay, that makes sense, thank you.

好的，明白了，謝謝。

And there are no additional questions at this time. I'd like to turn the program back over to Jenny Neslin for any closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我謹將節目交還給珍妮·內斯林，請她作總結發言。

Thank you, everyone, for joining us, and very much appreciate your questions. Look forward to speaking to you again next quarter. Have a great day.

感謝各位的參與，也非常感謝大家提出的問題。期待下個季度再次與您交流。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you for your participation. This does conclude today's program. You may disconnect at any time.

感謝您的參與。今天的節目到此結束。您可以隨時斷開連線。