LegalZoom.com Inc (LZ) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to LegalZoom's third-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 LegalZoom 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the conference over to your first speaker today, Madeline Crane, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給今天的第一位發言者，投資者關係主管瑪德琳·克蘭 (Madeline Crane)。請繼續。

Thank you, Operator. Welcome to LegalZoom's third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. Joining me today is Jeff Stibel, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Noel Watson, our Chief Operating Officer and Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝您，接線生。歡迎參加 LegalZoom 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天與我一起的還有我們的董事長兼執行長 Jeff Stibel 和我們的營運長兼財務長 Noel Watson。

As a reminder, we will be making forward-looking statements on this call. These forward-looking statements can be identified by the use of words such as believe, expect, plan, anticipate, will, intend, and similar expressions, and are not and should not be relied upon as a guarantee of future performance or results. Such forward-looking statements are based on management's assumptions and expectations and information available to us as of today's date. These forward-looking statements are also subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from such statements. These risks and uncertainties are referred to in the press release we issued today and in the risk factor section of our most recent quarterly report on Form 10-Q filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Except as required by law, we do not plan to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of any new information, future events, or otherwise.

提醒一下，我們將在本次電話會議中做出前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述可以透過相信、期望、計劃、預期、將、打算等詞語和類似表達來識別，並且不是且不應被視為對未來業績或結果的保證。此類前瞻性陳述是基於管理階層的假設和預期以及截至今天我們所掌握的資訊。這些前瞻性陳述也受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與此類陳述有重大差異。這些風險和不確定性在我們今天發布的新聞稿中以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的最新 10-Q 表季度報告的風險因素部分中有所提及。除法律要求外，我們不打算公開更新或修改任何前瞻性聲明，無論是由於任何新資訊、未來事件或其他原因。

In addition, we will also discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures. We use non-GAAP measures in making decisions regarding our business, and we believe these measures provide helpful information to investors. These non-GAAP financial measures are not intended to be considered in isolation, or as a substitute for results prepared in accordance with GAAP. Reconciliations of all non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are set forth in the Investor Relations section of our website at investors.legalzoom.com.

此外，我們也將討論某些非公認會計準則財務指標。我們在製定有關我們業務的決策時使用非公認會計準則指標，我們相信這些指標為投資者提供了有用的信息。這些非 GAAP 財務指標並非旨在單獨考慮，或作為根據 GAAP 編制的結果的替代方案。所有非 GAAP 指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對帳表均列在我們網站 investors.legalzoom.com 的投資者關係部分。

I will now turn the call over to Jeff.

現在我將電話轉給傑夫。

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining the call. Today, I'll be providing an overview of our third-quarter results before diving into detail on the progress we've made in our three key focus areas.

大家下午好，感謝大家參加電話會議。今天，我將概述我們第三季的業績，然後詳細介紹我們在三個重點關注領域的進展。

During the quarter, we focused on reimagining transactional products towards subscriptions and enhancing the value of our subscription products. We also began updating our customer education and pricing to better reflect the value we provide. Our efforts were guided by customer learnings and feedback as we focused on delivering best-in-class expertise and improving the customer experience.

在本季度，我們專注於重新構想交易產品以實現訂閱功能並提高訂閱產品的價值。我們也開始更新我們的客戶教育和定價，以更好地反映我們提供的價值。我們的努力以客戶的學習和回饋為指導，因為我們專注於提供一流的專業知識和改善客戶體驗。

If there is a single message we hope to get across during this call, it is that we are focused on driving durable results, improving the predictability of our business by re-accelerating subscription revenue growth and leading the business toward increasing profitability.

如果我們希望在這次電話會議中傳達一個訊息，那就是我們專注於推動持久的成果，透過重新加速訂閱收入成長來提高業務的可預測性並引領業務提高獲利能力。

Let's jump in. We achieved third-quarter revenue at the high end of our guidance of $169 million. Our subscription revenue grew 5% year-over-year from strength in our compliance-related subscriptions. Our transaction revenue declined 7% year-over-year, largely due to softer business formations.

讓我們開始吧。我們第三季的營收達到了 1.69 億美元的預期高點。由於合規相關訂閱業務的強勁成長，我們的訂閱收入年增了 5%。我們的交易收入年減 7%，主要是因為業務組成較為疲軟。

Census EIN applications declined 9% year-over-year in Q3. And we saw a decline in our market share of business formations, which was expected as we conducted important testing with a goal of narrowing our focus to high-value customers. Market share versus quality share will be a key topic I will be discussing today. Overall, we're pleased with our early progress against shifting our business towards recurring revenue to drive long-term durability.

第三季度，人口普查 EIN 申請數量較去年同期下降 9%。我們發現，我們的業務組建市場份額有所下降，這是意料之中的，因為我們進行了重要的測試，目標是將重點縮小到高價值客戶。市場佔有率與品質佔有率將是我今天討論的關鍵議題。總體而言，我們對將業務轉向經常性收入以推動長期持久性的早期進展感到滿意。

We also achieved strong bottom-line performance this quarter. Third quarter adjusted EBITDA came in well above forecast at $47 million, which reflected a record 28% margin for us as a public company. While the outperformance included the benefit of certain one-time items, which Noel will discuss, it also reflects success and key tests that we ran in support of our goal to acquire customers more efficiently and shift our business towards high-margin subscription offerings. This reinforces our conviction that we can drive durable margin expansion in 2025.

本季我們也取得了強勁的獲利業績。第三季調整後的 EBITDA 遠高於預期，達到 4,700 萬美元，反映出我們作為一家上市公司的利潤率達到了創紀錄的 28%。雖然優異的表現包括某些一次性項目的好處（諾埃爾將會討論），但它也反映了我們為支持我們的目標而進行的成功和關鍵測試，即更有效地獲取客戶並將我們的業務轉向高利潤的訂閱產品。這增強了我們的信念：我們能夠在 2025 年實現利潤率的持續成長。

This quarter, we spent considerable time listening to our customers and to our employees who are closest to our customers, particularly in sales, fulfillment, and service. Two things became abundantly clear.

本季度，我們花了大量時間傾聽客戶和最接近客戶的員工的意見，特別是在銷售、履行和服務方面。有兩件事變得十分清楚。

First, our small business customers are meeting us early in the tenure of their company building. They come to LegalZoom because they don't have time to spend hours researching how to form and maintain a compliant business. Similarly, our estate planning customers often come to us before speaking with other experts and are eager to plan ahead for their future.

首先，我們的小型企業客戶在公司成立初期就與我們進行了會面。他們來到 LegalZoom 是因為他們沒有時間花數小時研究如何組建和維護合規業務。同樣，我們的遺產規劃客戶經常在與其他專家交談之前來找我們，並渴望為他們的未來提前規劃。

They come to LegalZoom because without expensive attorney help, they don't know the steps they need to take to protect their loved ones. Our customers depend on us to guide them through the process.

他們來到 LegalZoom 是因為如果沒有昂貴的律師幫助，他們不知道需要採取什麼措施來保護他們的親人。我們的客戶依靠我們來引導他們完成整個過程。

As I noted on our last call, our customer experience has been lacking education on the problems we solve and the long-term value we provide. We will weave this education into our technology and our service. Prioritizing education will cultivate trust, engagement, and reinforce why customers need LegalZoom to be successful.

正如我在上次通話中提到的，我們的客戶體驗缺乏對我們解決的問題和我們提供的長期價值的教育。我們將把這種教育融入我們的技術和服務中。優先考慮教育將培養信任、參與度，並強化客戶為什麼需要 LegalZoom 才能取得成功。

Second, we created the online legal services sector back in 2001, and we continue to be viewed as a leader in this industry. These points roll up to a clear message that our brand promises. LegalZoom is a trusted partner of needed legal and compliance services. It represents our core, and in order to succeed, We need to embrace this fact.

其次，我們早在 2001 年就創建了線上法律服務領域，並且我們繼續被視為該行業的領導者。這些要點概括出我們品牌承諾的明確訊息。LegalZoom 是所需法律和合規服務的值得信賴的合作夥伴。它代表了我們的核心，為了成功，我們需要接受這個事實。

Our focus is to build the best core products we can, partner with others who offer best-of-breed ancillary products, and provide service that not only empowers but wows our customers. That will require some changes, and it will take some time. But we are confident that the outcome will drive long-term, sustainable growth.

我們的重點是打造最好的核心產品，與其他提供一流輔助產品的公司合作，並提供不僅能為客戶提供支援而且讓他們讚歎的服務。這將需要一些改變，也需要一些時間。但我們確信，結果將推動長期、可持續的成長。

Let's now turn to an update on the progress we made during the quarter. In Q3, we made important commercialization changes related to customer education and pricing for the value we provide. These will help drive the key goals I laid out in August. First, demonstrate the value of our subscription offerings, which will build trust, add value to customers, and support retention. And second, improve the quality of our subscriber base towards high-value customers as we focus on growing lifetime value.

現在讓我們來更新本季的進展。在第三季度，我們對客戶教育和我們提供的價值的定價做出了重要的商業化改變。這些將有助於實現我在八月提出的關鍵目標。首先，展示我們的訂閱服務的價值，這將建立信任、為客戶增加價值並支持保留。其次，我們專注於提高終身價值，提高用戶群的質量，使其成為高價值客戶。

We know that higher-value products attract customers who build stronger businesses. This also drives a stronger survival rate for businesses and reduced churn for LegalZoom. We see this with our customers. Those who purchase, for example, between $500 to $750 worth of our services during their initial order have over a 10% higher retention rate than our customers who form, by way of example, for between $100 to $250. It is clear to us that higher-intent customers are higher-value customers and build more durable businesses.

我們知道，價值更高的產品能夠吸引那些建立更強大業務的客戶。這也提高了企業的生存率，並減少了 LegalZoom 的客戶流失。我們在我們的客戶身上也看到了這一點。例如，那些在首次訂購時購買價值 500 至 750 美元服務的客戶的保留率比那些購買價值 100 至 250 美元的客戶高出 10% 以上。我們清楚知道，意向更高的客戶是價值較高的客戶，並且能夠建立更持久的業務。

In September, we started the process of revamping our formation lineup to attract higher-intent customers through education of the long-term SMB journey and the value of our subscription products. The results, while early, were a shift away from freemium purchases to more high-intent products. We did so by first updating our $0 or Basic Formation SKU messaging to make it clear that customers could be left without important tools they need to effectively run their business and remain compliant.

9 月份，我們開始重塑我們的陣容，透過對長期中小企業發展歷程和訂閱產品價值的教育來吸引更有意向的客戶。雖然結果還處於早期階段，但人們已經從免費增值購買轉向了更具高意向性的產品。我們首先更新了我們的 $0 或基本形成 SKU 訊息，以明確表示客戶可能失去有效經營業務和維持合規所需的重要工具。

We also expanded the offerings in our Pro and Premium SKUs and enhanced our messaging on the value these services provide. These SKUs now include a mix of compliance solutions, business management subscriptions, one-on-one legal advice, and trials for some of our subscription offerings. We are still testing the right mix, but so far, we've seen a mix shift from our $0 basic formation SKU to our $249 pro and $299 premium formation SKUs, which has yielded positive results.

我們也擴展了 Pro 和 Premium SKU 中的產品範圍，並加強了對這些服務所提供的價值的宣傳。這些 SKU 現在包括合規解決方案、業務管理訂閱、一對一法律諮詢以及部分訂閱產品的試用。我們仍在測試正確的組合，但到目前為止，我們已經看到組合從 0 美元的基本組成 SKU 轉變為 249 美元的專業組成 SKU 和 299 美元的高級組成 SKU，並取得了積極成果。

Next, we reverted to historical pricing on certain compliance solutions with promising outcomes. Despite being a market leader in formation and compliance, many of our prices have declined over the past several years. while operating in an inflationary economy. Pricing is a leading indicator of value, and in this case, we may have sent an inappropriate message to customers who expect us to be the best in the industry. We are testing our way into these changes, and the paradox is with these changes, we expect to see lower revenue churn over time.

接下來，我們恢復了某些具有良好成果的合規解決方案的歷史定價。儘管我們在資訊和合規方面處於市場領先地位，但過去幾年來我們的許多價格都有所下降。在通貨膨脹的經濟環境中運作。定價是價值的領先指標，在這種情況下，我們可能向期望我們成為行業最佳的客戶發出了不恰當的信息。我們正在測試這些變化，矛盾的是，隨著這些變化，我們預計隨著時間的推移收入流失會降低。

In 2023, we reduced the price of a registered agent product by 20%. Just this September, we returned our registered agent subscription to its historic pricing level for new customers with strong initial success. Given the value of this product and the peace of mind it provides, our attach rates have remained relatively consistent. Our long-term goal is to have our pricing speak to the value we provide our customers. We are actively testing price points across our product portfolio as we focus on attracting high-value customers who will grow with LegalZoom over the long term.

2023年，我們將註冊代理產品價格降低了20%。就在今年 9 月，我們針對新客戶將註冊代理訂閱價格恢復到歷史水平，並取得了巨大的初步成功。考慮到該產品的價值及其帶來的安心，我們的附加率一直保持相對穩定。我們的長期目標是讓我們的定價反映我們為客戶提供的價值。我們正在積極測試我們產品組合的價格點，因為我們專注於吸引將與 LegalZoom 長期共同成長的高價值客戶。

During Q3, we also focused on reimagining transactional products into subscription offerings. We ran successful tests to reorient two of our transactional offerings, the Beneficial Ownership Information Report, or BOIR, and business licenses for subscription services by adding more value to these product offerings.

在第三季度，我們也致力於將交易產品重新設計為訂閱產品。我們進行了成功的測試，透過為這些產品增加更多價值，重新調整了我們的兩個交易產品、實際所有權資訊報告 (BOIR) 和訂閱服務的商業授權。

Reorienting our products towards subscriptions is a key driver of growing the lifetime value of our customers. It's also what our customers need from us to succeed. Staying current with legal and compliance business requirements is not transactional by nature. It's an ongoing obligation.

將我們的產品重新定位為訂閱式產品是提升客戶終身價值的關鍵驅動力。這也是我們的客戶成功所需要的。滿足法律和合規業務要求本質上並不是交易性的。這是一項持續的義務。

Beginning with BOIR, there is a recurring nature to this report, but more importantly, customers see it as a compliance requirement. In August, we began testing an online promotion where our BOIR product was integrated with an annual subscription that included BOIR and our compliance subscription alongside a standalone BOIR transaction at an equal price. To little surprise, we saw a meaningful increase in the attach of our compliance subscription, significantly improving the expected lifetime value of these customers.

從 BOIR 開始，該報告就具有重複性，但更重要的是，客戶將其視為合規性要求。8 月份，我們開始測試一項線上促銷活動，將我們的 BOIR 產品與年度訂閱相結合，其中包括 BOIR 和我們的合規訂閱，以及以相同價格進行的獨立 BOIR 交易。毫不奇怪，我們看到合規訂閱的附加價值顯著增加，從而顯著提高了這些客戶的預期生命週期價值。

We've also seen similar traction in our sales center, with our sales associates now emphasizing the value of our compliance subscription bundle versus the standalone BOIR transaction when speaking with our customers.

我們的銷售中心也看到了類似的趨勢，我們的銷售人員現在在與客戶交談時強調我們的合規訂閱套餐相對於獨立 BOIR 交易的價值。

Another product that lends itself to a subscription offering is business licenses. On average, small businesses need over five licenses to operate legally. Remaining compliant is a time-consuming and error-prone process. And failure to comply can materially impact a business through fines or temporary closures. Our transactional business license offering, launched in November of 2023, matched a small business profile with relevant licenses and permits using a proprietary database, but through a one-time transactional product.

另一種適合訂閱的產品是商業授權。平均而言，小型企業需要超過五個許可證才能合法經營。保持合規是一個耗時且容易出錯的過程。不遵守規定可能會對企業造成嚴重影響，包括罰款或暫時關閉。我們於 2023 年 11 月推出的交易營業執照產品使用專有資料庫將小型企業資料與相關執照和許可證進行匹配，但透過一次性交易產品進行。

This September, we repackaged our business licenses into a subscription offering by adding more value to our customers. The new subscription product includes license storage, license sharing, notification of due date renewals, and alerts regarding any changes where a business may no longer be compliant due to changing regulations. This is a smaller product offering, but an important test case where we believe the expected lifetime value of these customers will increase as a result of these changes. Looking ahead, We'll be rolling out new promotions, products, features, and offerings more broadly across our customer base to enrich our subscription offerings.

今年九月，我們將商業授權重新包裝成訂閱產品，為客戶增加更多價值。新的訂閱產品包括許可證存儲、許可證共享、到期日續訂通知以及由於法規變化導致企業可能不再合規的任何變化的警報。這是一個較小的產品系列，但卻是一個重要的測試案例，我們相信這些客戶的預期終身價值將因這些變化而增加。展望未來，我們將在客戶群中更廣泛地推出新的促銷、產品、功能和產品，以豐富我們的訂閱產品。

Turning to our consumer channel, over the past few years, we've been singularly focused on our small business opportunity. This is a market we have largely neglected as a result, and given our strong historical brand recognition and our market position, we feel reinvestment in consumer is warranted.

談到我們的消費者管道，在過去幾年裡，我們一直專注於小型商業機會。因此，我們基本上忽略了這個市場，但鑑於我們強大的歷史品牌認知度和市場地位，我們認為對消費者進行再投資是合理的。

Further, as I noted on our last call, every business has an owner behind it that needs estate planning products. In August, we launched a marketing campaign for National Make-A-Will Month, which included a limited-time discount on estate plan products. We saw strong traction during the campaign, including an increase in estate plan sales to our existing small business customer base during the promotion period. We're continuing to invest in this area of our business including a complete redesign of the user experience for our state plan offerings. This includes an improved customer experience via simplified customer intake questionnaires. We believe enhancements such as data validation tools will result in higher completion rates and instantaneous document generations, saving our customers time.

此外，正如我在上次通話中提到的，每個企業背後都有一個需要遺產規劃產品的所有者。8 月份，我們啟動了全國立遺囑月行銷活動，其中包括遺產規劃產品的限時折扣。我們在活動期間看到了強勁的吸引力，包括在促銷期間針對我們現有的小型企業客戶群的房地產計劃銷售額有所增加。我們將繼續對該業務領域進行投資，包括徹底重新設計我們國家計劃產品的用戶體驗。這包括透過簡化客戶問卷來改善客戶體驗。我們相信，資料驗證工具等增強功能將提高完成率並實現即時文件生成，從而節省客戶的時間。

This will also drive increased efficiency within our fulfillment and service centers. Our long-term goal is to better lean these products towards subscription offerings to help our customers over their lifetimes. This is a market where we believe we can create an enduring subscription channel that can be used to offset periods of weakness in small business starts.

這也將提高我們的履行和服務中心的效率。我們的長期目標是讓這些產品更傾向於訂閱服務，以幫助我們的客戶一生。我們相信，在這個市場中，我們可以創造一個持久的訂閱管道，用於抵消小型企業創業時期的疲軟時期。

Finally, I'd like to provide an update on our AI efforts. The first prong of our AI strategy is to build a foundation from which we can leverage our 20-plus years of Legal Documents and Business Formation Experience. LegalZoom has robust data that we can utilize across nearly 4.3 million estate planning documents and over 4.5 million business formations.

最後，我想介紹一下我們在人工智慧方面的最新進展。我們的人工智慧策略的第一步是建立一個基礎，以便我們可以利用我們 20 多年的法律文件和業務組建經驗。LegalZoom 擁有豐富的數據，我們可以利用這些數據來處理近 430 萬份遺產規劃文件和超過 450 萬份商業活動。

We are working to capitalize on this in an ethical way by first scrubbing personally identified data using privacy-enhancing technology. The outcome will enable our artificial intelligence engines to leverage a vast number of legal documents that have worked for our customers over many, many years, alongside edits, changes, and the legal nuances that come only from having a rich historical record dating back to our founding in 2001.

我們正在努力以合乎道德的方式利用這一點，首先使用隱私增強技術清除個人識別資料。這項結果將使我們的人工智慧引擎能夠利用多年來為我們的客戶服務的大量法律文件，以及自 2001 年成立以來豐富的歷史記錄所帶來的編輯、更改和法律細節。

Our service and fulfillment teams will leverage these tools with a goal of providing faster, more efficient, and personalized customer service. And over time, our goal is to use this intelligence and other AI tools to empower our own law firm, LegalZoom Legal Services, as well as our network of over 1,000 independent attorneys who support our customers. This will require more time and care to ensure that we are empowering and not displacing the experts that drive our business forward. But once unlocked, we believe these tools can drive significant efficiencies for our legal experts and faster, more cost-effective legal services for our customers.

我們的服務和履行團隊將利用這些工具，以提供更快、更有效率和個人化的客戶服務為目標。隨著時間的推移，我們的目標是利用這種智慧和其他人工智慧工具來增強我們自己的律師事務所 LegalZoom Legal Services 以及為我們的客戶提供支援的 1,000 多名獨立律師網路的能力。這將需要我們投入更多的時間和精力，以確保我們能夠授權而不是取代推動我們業務發展的專家。但一旦解鎖，我們相信這些工具可以顯著提高我們的法律專家的效率，並為我們的客戶提供更快、更具成本效益的法律服務。

It is important to remember that generative AI alone cannot replace attorney advice. LegalZoom stands apart from our competitors as a technology platform that sits alongside an established network of independent attorneys available to leverage the power of AI to unlock what we believe is a massive opportunity.

重要的是要記住，生成式人工智慧本身無法取代律師的建議。LegalZoom 作為一個技術平台，與我們的競爭對手有所不同，它與一個成熟的獨立律師網絡並駕齊驅，可以利用人工智慧的力量來釋放我們認為的巨大機會。

Finally, we are working on launching more AI-powered tools to help our customers. We know that finding a valid and available business name is a clear point of friction. Last month, we introduced an AI-powered business name generator to help our customers with this important and often difficult first step. As this product rolls out and is perfected, we expect it to help increase close rates and become a natural path to cross-selling other products, such as trademarks and website domains.

最後，我們正在致力於推出更多人工智慧工具來幫助我們的客戶。我們知道，找到一個有效且可用的企業名稱顯然是一個困難。上個月，我們推出了一款人工智慧的商業名稱產生器，以幫助我們的客戶踏出這重要且往往困難的第一步。隨著該產品的推出和完善，我們預計它將有助於提高成交率，並成為交叉銷售其他產品（如商標和網站域名）的自然途徑。

In closing, I'm very pleased with the hard work we've accomplished during a very short period of time in just about a quarter. I am proud of our teams for embracing our new priorities and driving immediate, tangible results.

最後，我對我們在短短一個季度的時間內所完成的辛勤工作感到非常高興。我為我們的團隊接受新的優先事項並取得立竿見影的實際成果而感到自豪。

As a final word, I want to follow up on our ongoing commitment to transparency and communication. Despite hitting the top end of our revenue guidance, our year-over-year revenue growth was still only 1% this quarter. I'm nevertheless proud of the team for delivering at the top end. But we still have a long way to go. We are early in our roadmap of execution against our new initiatives and laying the foundation for the future trajectory of our business. This includes changes in our execution to enable us to disconnect from our dependence on small business formations for growth and accelerate our subscription revenue, both of which will improve predictability of our business and Drive Continued Margin Expansion over time. We will continue to communicate with you openly and transparently on our progress driving durable results.

最後，我想繼續履行我們對透明度和溝通的一貫承諾。儘管達到了我們收入預期的最高水平，但本季我們的營收年增仍僅為 1%。儘管如此，我還是為團隊的出色表現感到自豪。但我們還有很長的路要走。我們剛開始製定新措施的執行路線圖，為未來業務的發展奠定基礎。這包括我們執行方式上的變化，使我們能夠擺脫對小型企業發展的依賴，並加速我們的訂閱收入，這兩者都將提高我們業務的可預測性，並推動利潤率持續擴大。我們將繼續以公開透明的方式與您溝通我們所取得的進展，以取得持久成果。

With that, I will hand the call over to Noel to discuss our third-quarter results and outlook in more detail. Noel?

說完這些，我將把電話交給諾埃爾，更詳細地討論我們的第三季業績和展望。諾埃爾？

Thanks, Jeff, and good afternoon, everyone. I'll now turn our focus to our third-quarter financial performance. Please note, all comparisons will be on a year-over-year basis unless otherwise stated.

謝謝傑夫，大家下午好。現在我將把重點轉向我們第三季的財務表現。請注意，除非另有說明，所有比較均以同比為基礎。

Total revenue was $169 million for the quarter, or up 1%. Our results met the high end of our outlook, with strength coming from subscription revenue.

本季總營收為 1.69 億美元，成長 1%。我們的業績達到了預期的高點，主要動力來自訂閱收入。

Looking at our revenue performance in more detail, transaction revenue was $58 million, down 7%. We recorded 255,000 transaction units in the quarter. The 8% increase was primarily due to an increase in non-formation business-related transaction products, such as our new BOIR offering, offset by a lower volume of formation units.

更詳細地看一下我們的收入表現，交易收入為 5,800 萬美元，下降 7%。本季我們記錄了 255,000 個交易單位。8% 的成長主要由於非組成業務相關交易產品（例如我們新推出的 BOIR 產品）的增加，但組建單位數量的減少抵消了這一增長。

We recorded 113,000 business formations in the quarter, an 18% decline year-over-year. The decrease was due to a softer business formations macro, with Census EIN applications falling 9% year-over-year.

本季度，我們記錄了 113,000 家企業成立，年減 18%。下降的原因在於企業組成宏觀因素較弱，人口普查 EIN 申請數量較去年同期下降 9%。

In addition, we performed important testing related to our go-to-market strategy, which also pressured our formations as we focused on attracting high-value customers. Average order value was $227 for the quarter, down 13% year-over-year due to a higher mix of lower-priced transactions, including BOIR. We expect a similar trend for AOV in the fourth quarter and continue to expect a high single-digit decline in AOV for the full year 2024 versus 2023. Subscription revenue was $111 million, up 5% year-over-year from stronger compliance-related subscriptions and legal advisory subscriptions. This growth was partially offset by our tax product due to our decision to pause new customer acquisition as well as the exit of certain channel partners in Q3 of 2023.

此外，我們也進行了與市場進入策略相關的重要測試，這也給我們專注於吸引高價值客戶帶來了壓力。本季平均訂單價值為 227 美元，年減 13%，原因是包括 BOIR 在內的低價交易比例較高。我們預計第四季度 AOV 將呈現類似的趨勢，並繼續預計 2024 年全年 AOV 將較 2023 年出現高個位數下降。訂閱收入為 1.11 億美元，由於合規相關訂閱和法律諮詢訂閱的增加，較去年同期成長 5%。由於我們決定在 2023 年第三季暫停新客戶獲取以及某些通路合作夥伴的退出，這一增長被我們的稅收產品部分抵消。

We ended the quarter with over 1.7 million subscription units, up 10% year-over-year, as we saw an increase in forms and e-signature and bookkeeping subscriptions, due to the bundling of these products into certain business formation offerings, as well as growth in virtual mail subscriptions. This growth was partially offset by the impact from the exit of legacy partner relationships, which have now largely transitioned from our platform. Our pool came in at $264 for the quarter, down 1%.

截至本季度，我們的訂閱單位數量超過 170 萬個，比去年同期增長 10%，這是由於表格、電子簽名和簿記訂閱量有所增加，這是由於這些產品捆綁到某些業務組建產品中，以及虛擬郵件訂閱量有所增長。這一增長被傳統合作夥伴關係退出的影響部分抵消，這些關係目前已基本從我們的平台轉移。本季我們的資金池為 264 美元，下降了 1%。

Looking at our subscription performance on a sequential basis, subscription revenue increased 2% primarily due to a 7% increase in units from the bundling of forms, e-signature, and bookkeeping subscriptions into certain business formation offerings, as well as higher compliance-related subscriptions.

從連續角度來看我們的訂閱表現，訂閱收入增長了 2%，這主要由於將表格、電子簽名和簿記訂閱捆綁到某些業務組建產品中帶來的單位增長了 7%，以及合規相關訂閱的增加。

Turning to expenses and margins, where all of the following metrics are on a non-GAAP basis. Third-quarter gross margin was 71%, compared to 67% in Q3 2023. The year-over-year improvement was primarily driven by lower filing fees as a percentage of revenue, due to the lower information volumes. Margins were also supported by lower headcount expenses associated with our tax product, as well as automation and process improvements in our service delivery operations.

談到費用和利潤，以下所有指標均基於非 GAAP 基礎。第三季毛利率為 71%，而 2023 年第三季為 67%。年比成長的主要原因是，由於資訊量減少，申請費佔收入的百分比降低。利潤率也受到與我們的稅務產品相關的員工費用降低以及我們服務交付營運中的自動化和流程改進的支持。

Sales and marketing costs were $43 million, or 26% of revenue, a decline of 10% from last year. Customer acquisition marketing costs declined 4%. During the quarter, we executed several performance marketing spend tests to better understand incremental efficiency. This helps us further optimize our marketing spend levels and allows us to reallocate certain investments to longer-term brand initiatives.

銷售和行銷成本為 4,300 萬美元，佔收入的 26%，比去年下降 10%。客戶獲取行銷成本下降了 4%。在本季度，我們執行了幾項績效行銷支出測試，以更好地了解增量效率。這有助於我們進一步優化行銷支出水平，並允許我們將某些投資重新分配給更長期的品牌計劃。

Non-[CAM] sales and marketing expense was down $3 million, or 25%, due to the impact from our sales reorganization in Q4 of last year. Technology and development costs were $15 million, down $1 million, or 5%. General and administrative expenses were $14 million, a decrease of $1 million, or 4%. Our performance drove adjusted EBITDA of $47 million or a 28% margin. This represents a 40% year-over-year increase as compared to adjusted EBITDA of $34 million for the same period last year.

由於去年第四季銷售重組的影響，非[CAM]銷售和行銷費用下降了 300 萬美元，即 25%。技術和開發成本為 1500 萬美元，下降 100 萬美元，即 5%。一般及行政開支為 1,400 萬美元，減少 100 萬美元，即 4%。我們的業績推動調整後 EBITDA 達到 4,700 萬美元，利潤率為 28%。與去年同期 3,400 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA 相比，成長了 40%。

As a reminder, our adjusted EBITDA margins are seasonally higher in the back half of the year due to lower volume of business formation. Adjusted EBITDA was supported by our revenue performance, which came in at the higher end of our expectations. Additionally, we saw a 300-basis point increase in our subscription revenue mix, which supports our performance given the higher margin nature of these products.

提醒一下，由於業務組成量較低，我們調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率在下半年出現季節性上升。調整後的 EBITDA 受到我們收入表現的支撐，達到了我們預期的高點。此外，我們的訂閱收入組合增加了 300 個基點，鑑於這些產品的利潤率較高，這對我們的業績提供了支持。

These results were also driven by certain one-time factors, including lower CAM spend from the aforementioned testing and better-than-expected savings from our reduction in force last quarter.

這些結果也受到某些一次性因素的影響，包括上述測試導致的 CAM 支出降低以及上個季度裁員帶來的好於預期的節省。

Excluding these factors, adjusted EBITDA would still have exceeded the high end of our outlook due to the solid revenue performance and as we drive ongoing efficiencies in our business.

即使排除這些因素，由於穩健的營收表現和我們不斷提高業務效率，調整後的 EBITDA 仍將超過我們預期的高端。

Deferred revenue decreased by $3 million in the quarter, which was in line with our expectations and the typical seasonality of our business.

本季遞延收入減少了 300 萬美元，這符合我們的預期和我們業務的典型季節性。

Free cash flow was $22 million compared to $19 million for the same period in 2023. We ended the quarter with cash in equivalence of $112 million. We remain debt-free with no outstanding borrowings under our $150 million revolving credit facility.

自由現金流為 2,200 萬美元，而 2023 年同期為 1,900 萬美元。截至本季末，我們的現金等價物為 1.12 億美元。我們仍然沒有債務，在 1.5 億美元的循環信貸額度下沒有未償還借款。

During the third quarter, we repurchased 3.8 million shares of our common stock for a total of $25 million. This reduced our share count by approximately 2%. Since our first share repurchase program beginning in the first quarter of 2022, we have returned approximately $313 million to shareholders in the form of share repurchases, reducing our share count prior to the program by approximately 17%.

第三季度，我們回購了 380 萬股普通股，總額為 2,500 萬美元。這使我們的股份數量減少了約2％。自 2022 年第一季開始實施首個股票回購計畫以來，我們以股票回購的形式向股東返還了約 3.13 億美元，使計畫實施前的股票數量減少了約 17%。

Subsequent to the end of the quarter, our Board of Directors approved a $40 million increase in our share repurchase program authorization, bringing the total amount authorized to $215 million. Following the increase, we had approximately $50 million available under the share repurchase authorization as of today. We are continuing to balance our share repurchase program alongside maintaining a flexible cash position to support our capital allocation priorities.

本季結束後，我們的董事會批准將股票回購計畫授權增加 4,000 萬美元，使授權總金額達到 2.15 億美元。增加之後，截至今天，我們根據股票回購授權有大約 5000 萬美元可用。我們將繼續平衡我們的股票回購計劃，同時保持靈活的現金狀況以支持我們的資本配置重點。

Finally, turning to our outlook. We are updating all components of our outlook today to reflect three quarters of actual financial results and our latest expectations regarding macro trends and business initiatives in the fourth quarter.

最後，談談我們的展望。我們今天更新了展望的所有組成部分，以反映三個季度的實際財務表現以及我們對第四季度宏觀趨勢和商業計劃的最新預期。

For the fourth quarter, we expect revenue in the range of $158 million to $162 million, or 1% year-over-year growth at the midpoint. On a sequential basis, we expect fourth-quarter revenue performance to reflect a sequential improvement in transaction revenue growth, driven by an anticipated increase of BOIR filings in advance of the December 31 deadline, as well as fulfillment timing, and a sequential deceleration in subscription revenue growth due to headwinds in our tax product following our decision to pause new customer acquisition.

對於第四季度，我們預計營收將在 1.58 億美元至 1.62 億美元之間，中間值將年增 1%。從環比來看，我們預計第四季度營收表現將反映出交易收入成長的環比改善，這得益於預計在 12 月 31 日截止日期之前 BOIR 申請將增加以及履行時間的增加，以及由於我們決定暫停新客戶獲取後稅收產品遇到阻力導致訂閱收入增長環比減速。

For the full year, we expect revenue in the range of $678 million to $682 million, or 3% year-over-year growth at the midpoint. Our revenue outlook continues to reflect the impact from a mid- to high-single-digit decline in the Census EIN formations macro for the full year 2024.

我們預計全年營收將在 6.78 億美元至 6.82 億美元之間，中間值年增 3%。我們的收入前景繼續反映 2024 年全年人口普查 EIN 形成宏觀中高個位數下降的影響。

Turning to adjusted EBITDA, we expect to achieve adjusted EBITDA in the range of $40 million to $44 million in the fourth quarter, which reflects a 26% margin at the midpoint. For the full year, we've raised our adjusted EBITDA expectation to be in the range of $144 million to $148 million, or a margin of 21% at the midpoint. Finally, we expect free cash flow to be in the range of $80 million to $85 million.

談到調整後的 EBITDA，我們預期第四季度調整後的 EBITDA 在 4,000 萬美元至 4,400 萬美元之間，中間值為 26%。對於全年，我們已將調整後的 EBITDA 預期上調至 1.44 億美元至 1.48 億美元之間，中間值為 21%。最後，我們預計自由現金流在 8,000 萬美元至 8,500 萬美元之間。

In closing, I'd like to thank the entire LegalZoom team for their hard work this quarter. We are beginning to see evidence of the positive trends our key execution priorities are having in our business, and I look forward to updating you on our continued progress in the coming quarters.

最後，我要感謝整個 LegalZoom 團隊本季的辛勤工作。我們開始看到證據，表明我們的關鍵執行重點在我們的業務中呈現正面趨勢，我期待在未來幾季向您通報我們持續取得的進展。

And with that, let's please open the call for questions.

現在，讓我們開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Andrew Boone, JMP Securities.

(操作員指示) Andrew Boone，JMP Securities。

Jeff, I wanted to ask a little bit about the pricing test that you talked about in the quarter. Can you talk about where pricing could go going forward? And then just related to the larger move across the industry of moving to free that we've seen over the last couple of years.

傑夫，我想問您在本季談到的定價測試。能談談未來的定價走勢嗎？這與我們過去幾年看到的整個行業轉向免費的更大舉措有關。

And then for my second question, can you talk about the broader opportunity with MyLZ and some of the components of selling subscription after the core formation? How do we think about conversion later in entrepreneurs' lifecycle as it relates to LegalZoom? Thanks so much.

然後對於我的第二個問題，您能談談 MyLZ 的更廣泛的機會以及核心形成後銷售訂閱的一些組成部分嗎？我們如何看待與 LegalZoom 相關的企業家生命週期後期的轉換？非常感謝。

Sure thing. Let me take the first question about pricing first and unpack that a bit. In terms of where we think pricing can go, again, it's not a function of higher or lower necessarily. It's a function of matching pricing to the value that we're offering and the value and the promise that our brand derives. So we have done a series of price tests, higher and lower, and this is not dissimilar to what you see with many different companies.

當然可以。讓我先回答關於定價的第一個問題並稍微解釋一下。關於我們對定價走向的看法，這並不一定是上漲或下跌的結果。它的作用是將定價與我們提供的價值以及我們的品牌所帶來的價值和承諾相匹配。因此，我們進行了一系列價格測試，有高有低，這與您在許多不同公司看到的情況並沒有什麼不同。

I think that there is a lot more opportunity for price on the high end for certain products, particularly we're offering higher value-added services, and where we're mapping both our product to the expertise that we deliver.

我認為某些產品的高端價格還有很大的提升空間，特別是我們提供更高附加價值的服務，並且我們將我們的產品與我們所提供的專業知識進行匹配。

And there are going to be some areas where pricing can be lower. And a good example of that is with our free product, which we did not shut down. We just started repositioning so that our customers knew exactly what they were getting.

有些地區的價格可以更低一些。一個很好的例子就是我們的免費產品，我們並沒有關閉它。我們剛開始重新定位，以便我們的客戶確切地知道他們得到了什麼。

With respect to the competitive landscape, just to be clear, some companies offer a free product. But I put quotes around that free product. Some offer a free product, which is really just a 12-month trial, and then you run into a subscription. Some offer a free product so long as you're a member and you have to subscribe to that membership. And then others offer a free product alongside an attachment to other products and services. So it's a bit of a misnomer to think that the market is going towards free.

關於競爭格局，需要明確的是，有些公司提供免費產品。但我在那個免費產品上加了引號。有些提供免費產品，實際上只是 12 個月的試用期，然後您就需要訂閱。只要您是會員並且您必須訂閱該會員資格，有些就會提供免費產品。然後其他人提供免費產品以及其他產品和服務的配件。因此，認為市場正在走向自由有點用詞不當。

And customers need to be aware that you get what you pay for. And with respect to free, that is an important thing to understand. And we get what we pay for. We've seen some Secretary of States go to free only to find out that they're ending up with a lot of fraud and bad actors and then stopping that. So we're hypersensitive to how we're looking at pricing and making sure that it matches to what we're trying to deliver strategically.

而客戶需要知道，您得到的是與您支付的費用相符的。對於免費，理解這一點很重要。我們付出多少，就得到多少。我們看到一些國務卿自由行事，結果卻發現他們陷入了大量詐欺和不良行為，然後他們阻止了這種情況。因此，我們對定價非常敏感，並確保其與我們試圖提供的策略產品相符。

With respect to the second question and MyLZ, I mean MyLZ for us is a platform. Customers will buy a LegalZoom product or service and we will want to meet those customers where they do business. In some cases that means we're pushing to them, in some cases that means we will be on the phone with them if that's what they feel is best. But where we can, we want to deliver those services on our platform.

關於第二個問題和 MyLZ，我的意思是 MyLZ 對我們來說是一個平台。客戶將購買 LegalZoom 產品或服務，我們希望在他們開展業務的地方與這些客戶會面。在某些情況下，這意味著我們正在向他們施壓，在某些情況下，這意味著如果他們認為這樣最好，我們將透過電話與他們聯繫。但只要我們有能力，我們希望在我們的平台上提供這些服務。

And that's what MyLZ was designed for. And we are leveraging lifecycle marketing and management to bring more and more customers over time to MyLZ. And our strong belief is that will, in part, help us to deliver greater upsells and cross-sells post-formation. And while we're in the early innings of that, because it wasn't a core focus, we expect to be able to deliver more post-formation and post-initial purchase because of that, the MyLZ platform, because of future investments in other things like mobile and our sales force and other areas where we can offer more value-added services to our customers who are clamoring for these over time.

這正是 MyLZ 的設計目的。我們正在利用生命週期行銷和管理來隨著時間的推移為 MyLZ 帶來越來越多的客戶。我們堅信，這將在一定程度上幫助我們在組建後實現更多的追加銷售和交叉銷售。雖然我們還處於早期階段，但這不是我們的核心重點，我們希望能夠透過 MyLZ 平台提供更多的後期形成和初次購買服務，也希望未來我們在行動、銷售團隊和其他領域進行投資，以便為隨著時間的推移迫切需要這些服務的客戶提供更多增值服務。

And just to build on that, Andrew, one example where we've seen the benefit of MyLZ in terms of helping us monetize customers post-formation is with the Beneficial Ownership Information Reports, or BOIR, where we primarily monetize it through the MyLZ experience. So to Jeff's point, it is still early innings. There's more that we can do there, but we are seeing examples where it's creating a benefit, in addition to the benefits that it creates around helping customers through our process. So where they can get status updates, there's other benefits that they see beyond just monetization that helps with the overall customer experience.

安德魯，在此基礎上，我們看到了 MyLZ 在幫助我們在客戶組建後實現盈利方面的優勢的一個例子是實際所有權資訊報告 (BOIR)，我們主要透過 MyLZ 體驗將其盈利。所以正如傑夫所說，現在還處於早期階段。我們能做的事情還有很多，但我們看到的例子是，除了透過我們的流程幫助客戶所創造的好處之外，它還創造了好處。因此，當他們能夠獲取狀態更新時，除了貨幣化之外，他們還看到了其他好處，有助於提升整體客戶體驗。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ron Josey, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Ron Josey。

Jeff, I wanted to talk a little bit more, understand your comments on market share versus quality share, and just understand just how we're going to market overall, how the business is shifting the subscriptions, and maybe how this might impact market share going forward and that metric in particular.

傑夫，我想再多講一點，了解一下你對市場份額和品質份額的評論，以及我們整體上如何營銷，業務如何轉變訂閱，以及這可能會如何影響未來的市場份額以及具體的指標。

And then, Noel, on sales and marketing, we heard on the call both you and Jeff talked about more efficiently acquiring customers. Executing more tests to get there. Any insights on what you're doing here to more efficiently acquire customers would be helpful. Thank you, guys.

然後，諾埃爾，關於銷售和行銷，我們在電話中聽到您和傑夫都談到了更有效地獲取客戶。執行更多測試以達到目的。為了更有效地獲取客戶，您在這裡採取的任何行動的任何見解都會很有幫助。謝謝你們。

Thank you, and I'll take that first part, which is an important question, because this concept of market share and how we define it is very narrow. It's limited to our share of formations that come in through the United States.

謝謝，我將回答第一部分，這是一個重要的問題，因為市場份額的概念以及我們對它的定義非常狹隘。它僅限於我們通過美國進入的編隊份額。

And the reality is there is a certain amount of formations that aren't going to generate high value for a group like LegalZoom. In the end, we are providing legal and business services to customers. So if you have someone who's forming an LLC for no other reason than to try to protect an asset, It is unlikely that that will turn into a recurring revenue customer or a customer who is buying anything more.

而現實情況是，有一定數量的組織不會為像 LegalZoom 這樣的團體創造高價值。最終，我們為客戶提供法律和商業服務。因此，如果某人成立有限責任公司只是為了試圖保護資產，那麼他不太可能成為經常性收入客戶或購買更多產品的客戶。

There is also more fraud when you focus purely on free. And then you end up with a lot more transients as well, which tends to clog your systems even if it is a customer who might be intending to start a business by way of example but doesn't actually form that business or doesn't engage deeply in that business.

當你只注重免費時，也會出現更多的詐欺行為。然後，您最終也會遇到更多的瞬時客戶，這往往會阻塞您的系統，即使這個客戶可能打算創業，但實際上並沒有形成該業務或沒有深入參與該業務。

So we are deeply focused on quality sharing. It's one of the things that I learned in my first 90 days and perhaps one of the most important things which is once you understand our customers, they are looking on to us for quality. And in return, we should be looking for those quality customers, customers who will stay with us and endure with us and will grow with us. So we are, again, early in this journey and life cycle, but we've already seen pretty strong green shoots of shifting positively to focusing on quality by education, by pricing, by packaging, and by launching some new products that would inner, particularly to customers who are high intent.

因此，我們非常注重優質共享。這是我在前 90 天學到的事情之一，也許是最重要的事情之一，一旦你了解了我們的客戶，他們就會期待我們的品質。作為回報，我們應該尋找那些優質客戶，那些願意留在我們身邊、與我們一起長久並與我們一起成長的客戶。因此，我們再次處於這個旅程和生命週期的早期階段，但我們已經看到了相當強勁的綠芽，透過教育、定價、包裝以及推出一些新產品來積極轉向關注質量，特別是針對那些有高意向的客戶。

Yeah, and then, Ron, on the sales and marketing side, so starting with marketing, I think primarily just retesting spend levels within -- even at a campaign level to understand and regularly recheck incrementality, right, so that we're constantly optimizing against those campaigns, and then also looking at spending into newer channels to us and testing different formats there, so things like radio and direct mail and spending more on social and in different formats there. So I think the combination of those two things alongside doing some reinvesting in our brand as well and testing different messages around our brand.

是的，然後，Ron，在銷售和營銷方面，從營銷開始，我認為主要只是重新測試內部支出水平 - 即使在活動級別也了解並定期重新檢查增量，對吧，這樣我們就可以不斷針對這些活動進行優化，然後還要考慮在我們更新的渠道上支出，並在那裡測試不同的格式，比如廣播和直郵格式，以及在社交和不同格式上投入更多資金。因此，我認為將這兩件事結合起來，同時對我們的品牌進行一些再投資，並圍繞我們的品牌測試不同的訊息。

And then also on the sales side, implementing various tests to help us optimize there. I think we're still, there's still a lot of training that we're investing in there, testing different comp structures, expanding our up-sell capabilities. So those are all things that we're regularly advancing and looking to generate more effectiveness and efficiency from.

然後在銷售方面，實施各種測試來幫助我們進行最佳化。我認為我們仍在投入大量培訓，測試不同的薪資結構，擴大我們的追加銷售能力。所以，這些都是我們不斷前進並希望提高效力和效率的事情。

And Ron, to add to what Noel is saying, from any good marketers' perspective, all marketing is performance marketing if it's done well. So we're looking at ways to complement the marketing we're already doing, and then really testing the assumptions on the pure performance marketing in terms of the last dollars. So, you know, what you would see from the outside in is us doing some pretty deep testing on Pulse advertising, Pulse marketing, how we deliver customers to the website and to our sales force, and making sure that we are bringing in the right customers who are going to be able to be upsold and cross-sold into subscriptions over the long term.

羅恩，補充諾埃爾所說的話，從任何優秀行銷人員的角度來看，如果做得好，所有行銷都是績效行銷。因此，我們正在尋找方法來補充我們已經進行的行銷，然後根據最後的資金情況真正測試純績效行銷的假設。所以，你知道，從外部你會看到我們對 Pulse 廣告、Pulse 行銷、如何將客戶引導至網站和我們的銷售團隊進行相當深入的測試，並確保我們引入合適的客戶，這些客戶將能夠在長期內透過追加銷售和交叉銷售進行訂閱。

Thank you, Jeff. Thank you, Noel.

謝謝你，傑夫。謝謝你，諾埃爾。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Josh Beck, Raymond James.

喬許貝克、雷蒙詹姆斯。

This is Kish Patel. I'm for Josh Beck. As you look across S&B, how would you characterize the competitive environment with some others like Zen Business and then maybe also who's more relevant on the consumer side? And in addition, can you discuss the macro environment as it relates to current customer spending patterns as well as new business formations, and maybe how we should think about a rebound in 2025?

這是 Kish Patel。我支持喬許·貝克。當您縱觀 S&B 時，您如何描述它與 Zen Business 等其他公司的競爭環境，以及在消費者方面誰更相關？此外，您能否討論與當前客戶消費模式以及新業務形成相關的宏觀環境，以及我們應該如何看待 2025 年的反彈？

Sure. Why don't I take the first part from -- I think the most important thing to focus on is what is that competitive set? When you look at our addressable market or TAM, it is inclusive of companies like a Zen business, as you mentioned.

當然。我為什麼不從第一部分開始呢——我認為需要關注的最重要的事情是競爭對手是什麼？當你查看我們的潛在市場或 TAM 時，它包括像 Zen 業務這樣的公司，正如你所提到的。

But the majority of share is actually going to lawyers. These are small law firms and small individual attorneys who are picking up most of Main Street and the consumer market. That's the real focus. It was historically, it always should be.

但實際上，大部分份額都歸律師所有。這些小型律師事務所和小型個人律師佔據了大部分主要街道和消費者市場。這才是真正的重點。從歷史上看，它一直都應該如此。

So rather than us fighting on price, looking at someone who is an online competitor, I would much rather be inclined towards going after that larger TAM with the higher value-added products and services where we can build enduring relationships with customers at a much lower price than what they would get by going down the street and into a individual attorney.

因此，與其打價格戰，尋找線上競爭對手，我更傾向於追求擁有更高附加價值產品和服務的更大潛在市場，這樣我們就能以比他們到街上找個人律師低得多的價格與客戶建立持久的關係。

And in many cases, our business is uniquely set up to tackle that addressable market because we have rich and robust technology that makes it sufficient. But we also have a law firm and a legal network of attorneys that can provide that expert advice, which I think is a combination that no one else can offer or afford. So as you see what we are doing to reposition our business and our company, it really is focused and based on the customer learnings that we've gathered to actually address their problems as opposed to just selling them a product.

在許多情況下，我們的業務具有獨特的優勢，能夠滿足這一潛在市場的需求，因為我們擁有豐富且強大的技術。但我們也有一家律師事務所和一個律師網絡，可以提供專業建議，我認為這是其他任何人都無法提供或承受的組合。因此，正如您所看到的，我們正在重新定位我們的業務和公司，它確實集中並基於我們收集的客戶資訊來實際解決他們的問題，而不是僅僅向他們出售產品。

You want to take the macro question, Noel?

諾埃爾，你想回答宏觀問題嗎？

Sure. As it relates to the macro, obviously, the macro is very difficult to predict and project. And there's been lots of change. And even this morning, news of new change and unclear as to exactly how it'll impact it.

當然。至於宏觀，顯然宏觀是很難預測和預測的。並且已經發生了很多變化。甚至今天早上，仍有關於新變化的消息，但尚不清楚它將如何影響。

Overall, the macro thus far this year is softer than last year, right? And it started off, it was down 2% in Q1, and then 6% in Q2, and now 9% in Q3. So we're in a generally soft environment relative to prior year, but structurally, materially higher than pre-pandemic levels. And so as we look forward, there are certain tailwinds that are driving, I think, that structural increase, including remote work.

整體來說，今年到目前為止的宏觀經濟比去年還要疲軟，對嗎？一開始，第一季下降了 2%，第二季下降了 6%，現在第三季下降了 9%。因此，與前一年相比，我們總體上處於疲軟狀態，但從結構上看，實質上高於疫情前的水平。因此，展望未來，我認為有一些順風因素正在推動這種結構性成長，其中包括遠距工作。

The fact that it's never been easier to get a business operational with very low cost of capital and with enterprise-like capabilities. And then at the same time, there's the fact that the growth rate that we've experienced in formations overall in the last four years has been higher than the historical CAGR. So there's the potential for it to regress towards that mean.

事實上，以極低的資本成本和類似企業的能力來開展業務從未如此簡單。同時，過去四年來，我們經歷的整體編隊成長率高於歷史複合年增長率。因此，它有可能回歸到該平均值。

So, all in all, to say it's very hard to project. We're kind of taking a middle-of-the-road view on it right now and waiting to see until we have some more data points.

所以，總而言之，這很難預測。我們現在對此持一種中間觀點，並等待獲得更多數據點。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Patrick Millway, William Blair.

派崔克·米爾韋、威廉·布萊爾。

So, further to the changes on pricing for your compliance products, just understanding that those are a sizable portion of your subscription revenue, how should we think about the timing and potential eventual impact of those changes to your overall subscription revenue?

那麼，關於您合規產品定價的變化，只要理解這些變化只佔您訂閱收入的很大一部分，我們應該如何考慮這些變化對您的整體訂閱收入的時間和最終潛在影響？

Sure, Pat. So, we're still in the process of unpacking this now, both with the new pricing out on the website, the pricing that we're testing with the Salesforce, and then potential pricing changes to the existing base. In all cases, we think it will be a net positive to, you know, to revenue and EBITDA.

當然，帕特。因此，我們現在仍處於解決這個問題的過程中，包括網站上公佈的新定價、我們正在與 Salesforce 測試的定價以及現有基礎上的潛在定價變化。在所有情況下，我們都認為這將對收入和 EBITDA 產生淨正面影響。

But this is relatively new. So we have to make sure that we're doing it in a way that is accretive to the business and to our customers. So we're making sure that we're adding both pricing changes and value changes and that we're accreting again to what we were saying earlier, which is quality share versus market share.

但這相對較新。因此，我們必須確保我們的做法能夠對業務和客戶有利。因此，我們要確保同時增加價格變化和價值變化，並且再次強調我們之前所說的內容，即品質份額與市場份額。

And you know that that's a lot to unpack knowing that we really just launched this about 45 days ago. So I suspect we'll have more to say at the next earnings call on this one. And you shouldn't think of this as limited specifically to compliance, because we're looking across our entire base of customers and product offerings to make sure that we're matching pricing to value and matching our brand and reputation to everything that we're doing.

您知道，考慮到我們大約 45 天前才剛啟動這項計劃，還有很多事情需要解決。因此，我猜我們會在下次財報電話會議上對此有更多要說的。而且您不應認為這僅限於合規性，因為我們正在審視我們的整個客戶群和產品供應，以確保我們的定價與價值相匹配，並將我們的品牌和聲譽與我們所做的一切相匹配。

Okay. I understand that it's early, so that's helpful. Thanks, Jeff. And then just on rebuilding the consumer channel, the strategy makes total sense given what you've all talked through today. But just in contrast to what we saw this quarter, I mean, should we expect a re-ramp in the CAM spend as you pursue that initiative? Or how should we think about the implications of that push?

好的。我知道現在還早，所以這很有幫助。謝謝，傑夫。然後，僅就重建消費者管道而言，根據大家今天的討論，該策略是完全合理的。但與本季的情況相比，我的意思是，當您實施該計劃時，我們是否應該預期 CAM 支出會再次增加？或者我們應該如何思考這項推動的影響？

I don't think the implications are going to be spending money on marketing. And to the extent that we do, again, that marketing budget is largely fungible because when you're spending on consumer, you're effectively spending on brand and it should inert to the S&B side as well. And as we've said repeatedly and believe deeply, Well, it's a fact. Of course, we believe it deeply.

我不認為其意義是在行銷上花錢。就我們所做的而言，行銷預算在很大程度上是可替代的，因為當你在消費者身上花錢時，你實際上就是在品牌上花錢，而且它也應該對 S&B 方面產生影響。正如我們反覆說過並深信不疑的那樣，這是事實。當然，我們深信這一點。

All small businesses have an owner behind them, and those owners need wills and trusts, and a very small percentage of consumers actually have a will or trust. So I think we have everything that we need to go to market from a marketing perspective.

所有小型企業背後都有一個所有者，而這些所有者需要遺囑和信託，而實際上只有極小比例的消費者有遺囑或信託。因此我認為，從行銷角度來看，我們已經具備了進入市場所需的一切。

However, what we do need to do is refresh the products that we offer in two respects. Number one, they need to be best in class. And then number two, they need to be recurring in nature. And I'm not just specifically speaking to the business model. I mean, we can't leave customers stranded. And a will cannot be done in a vacuum and then left alone. So that's the real focus.

然而，我們確實需要從兩個方面更新我們提供的產品。首先，他們必須是班上的佼佼者。第二，它們需要具有重複性。我並不是只具體談論商業模式。我的意思是，我們不能讓顧客陷入困境。遺囑不能在真空中立下，然後置之不理。所以這才是真正的重點。

And the way in which we're going to drive that home is with what we were saying on the call, which is through real expertise. That's the clear focus and the number one thing that was lacking before. We were over-automating to a fault.

我們將透過電話中所說的內容來讓大家明白這一點，也就是透過真正的專業知識。這是明確的重點，也是之前所缺乏的最重要的事。我們的自動化程度過高，以致出現錯誤。

And we, in some cases, will need to slow down the process so that our consumers can get a better understanding and knowledge and education of what it is they need to be buying. And then once they buy, what it is they need to do to ultimately be successful with these products.

在某些情況下，我們需要放慢這一進程，以便我們的消費者能夠更好地理解和了解他們需要購買什麼。一旦他們購買了這些產品，他們需要做什麼才能最終成功使用它們？

Understood. Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate it.

明白了。謝謝，傑夫。非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) Elizabeth Porter, Morgan Stanley.

（操作員指示） 摩根士丹利的伊麗莎白波特。

This is [Katie Kuser] for Elizabeth tonight. I wanted to double-click on the customer education piece. What are some of the initiatives that have been most impactful to broadening out the scope of the portfolio to the broader customer base? Is there a specific point in the formations flow where education has been most successful? And kind of looking ahead when customers are more engaged, kind of in practice, what's that first tangible step in moving from discovery to monetization? Thanks a lot.

這是伊麗莎白今​​晚的 [Katie Kuser]。我想雙擊客戶教育部分。哪些措施對於擴大產品組合範圍以涵蓋更廣泛的客戶群最為有效？在形成流程中是否存在教育最為成功的特定點？展望未來，當客戶參與度更高時，在實踐中，從發現到貨幣化的第一步切實可行的步驟是什麼？多謝。

You bet. Thank you, Katie. I'll give you three high-level pieces, and then, Noel, if you want to jump in more specifically, especially from a historical perspective.

當然。謝謝你，凱蒂。我會給你三個高級部分，然後，諾埃爾，如果你想更具體地了解，特別是從歷史的角度。

But the three areas where we've had the most success is, first, during the initial sign-up. So, in the formation process, that's in our questionnaire. We introduce other products and services through education in that flow. The probably archetype case studies would be compliance, which is in our first questionnaire, and we introduce that as part of something that is necessary when you form a company.

但我們最大成功的三個領域是：首先，最初的註冊階段。因此，在形成過程中，這都在我們的問卷中。我們透過該流程中的教育來介紹其他產品和服務。可能的典型案例研究是合規性，這在我們的第一個問卷中，我們將其作為成立公司時必需的一部分來介紹。

The second is a registered agent service and we put that in the second questionnaire at least for now and that is required whether you are doing it or whether we do it on your behalf as well, so we educate about what that is and why you need it and what the value is, and we'll continue to do more.

第二個是註冊代理服務，至少目前我們把它放在了第二份問卷中，無論是您自己做還是我們代表您做，這都是必需的，所以我們會告訴您這是什麼、為什麼您需要它以及它的價值是什麼，我們將繼續做更多。

The second is through something we talked about earlier which is MyLZ or our platform/platforms. So once we have someone onboarded while they are using our products, when we see what they are doing and how they are doing it, we will offer other value-added products and services to them.

第二個是透過我們之前談到的 MyLZ 或我們的平台。因此，一旦有人在使用我們的產品時，我們了解他們在做什麼以及他們如何做，我們就會向他們提供其他增值產品和服務。

And then the final piece where I think that there is a lot of opportunity and we're in the early innings again in, but have historically been very strong, is with regards to our sales, service, and legal expert teams. And each one of these individual groups provides a level of expertise. So whether someone is calling in with a customer service need, whether they're calling in because they need a new product or service, or they're calling to talk to a lawyer or an accountant.

最後，我認為我們還有很大的機會，而且我們又處於早期階段，但從歷史上看，我們的銷售、服務和法律專家團隊一直表現得非常強大。每個獨立團體都具備一定程度的專業知識。因此，無論某人是因為需要客戶服務而打電話，還是因為他們需要新產品或服務而打電話，或者他們打電話來想與律師或會計師交談。

In each of these cases, we have the opportunity to educate and then upsell and cross-sell. That is an area of deep focus right now because we think that has huge opportunity to not just drive cross-sell and upsell, but to bring our customers up the value chain.

在每種情況下，我們都有機會進行教育，然後進行追加銷售和交叉銷售。這是目前我們重點關注的領域，因為我們認為這不僅可以帶來巨大的交叉銷售和追加銷售機會，還可以提升我們的客戶的價值鏈。

Yeah, the only thing I build on there is to add personalization, which is an area we're investing in and doing some testing around now to early kind of success, which is between identifying by industry or by the questions that are answered by the entrepreneur on the site. We then provide them more specific copy related to educating them in areas that are meaningful, and/or showing them products that are more appropriate for them that we think they would need to remain compliant. So really getting specific throughout that questionnaire flow, depending on what the customer is telling us and being smart about what we're showing them from an education standpoint in terms of the material and from a product standpoint.

是的，我唯一要做的事情就是增加個人化，這是我們正在投資的領域，現在我們正在進行一些測試，以取得早期的成功，即透過行業進行識別或透過網站上企業家回答的問題進行識別。然後，我們會向他們提供更具體的文案，在有意義的領域對他們進行教育，和/或向他們展示更適合他們的產品，我們認為他們需要保持合規。因此，在整個問卷調查過程中，我們要根據客戶告訴我們的內容，從教育的角度和產品的角度，巧妙地向他們展示內容，以便真正做到具體化。

And that's a great case study and example, Noel, because this is something new that we have recently introduced, and you can see it if you go through our formation flow right now. There are certain categories where we have them highly targeted and highly personalized so that they're actually getting a different set of questions, a different set of educational tools, and that's yielding success, again, early innings in testing, but success with upsell, cross-sell, and conversion.

諾埃爾，這是一個很好的案例研究和例子，因為這是我們最近推出的新東西，如果你現在了解我們的形成流程，你就可以看到它。在某些類別中，我們對他們進行高度針對性和高度個性化，以便他們實際上獲得不同的問題集、不同的教育工具集，並且這會產生成功，再次，在測試的早期階段，但在追加銷售、交叉銷售和轉化方面會取得成功。

Super helpful. Thank you.

超有幫助。謝謝。

Ella Smith, JPMC.

史密斯 (Ella Smith)，摩根大通。

So Jeff, first for you, you continue to see strength in your compliance subscriptions, but of course the overall business formation environment right now is challenged. I would think that compliance subscriptions are generally cross-attached at formation. So can you please help me impact the strength and compliance subscriptions in the current environment?

傑夫，首先，您繼續看到合規訂閱的強勁成長，但當然，目前的整體業務形成環境面臨挑戰。我認為合規訂閱在形成時通常是交叉附加的。那麼，您能幫助我影響當前環境下的強度和合規性訂閱嗎？

Sure. I think it's really just a function of the calculus of our business. You have a very large addressable market that we have not captured fully. We don't dominate this market. No one does, which means even when you have an environment of falling TAM, in this case, falling formations, you can still increase your business and you can do it one of two ways. You go after market share or you can go after quality share.

當然。我認為這實際上只是我們業務計算的一個功能。您擁有非常大的潛在市場，但我們尚未完全佔領。我們並沒有主宰這個市場。沒有人能做到，這意味著即使在您處在 TAM 下降的環境中，在這種情況下，形態下降，您仍然可以增加業務，並且您可以透過以下兩種方式之一來實現。您可以追求市場份額，也可以追求品質份額。

And in this case, that was a leading question. I appreciate it, Ella. In this case, what we have done is we have pivoted from trying to bring in free customers just to increase share at the expense of other things to trying to educate customers right out of the gate saying if you're coming to us, our expectations of you as a customer is that you're trying to, again, in this case, build a viable, going-concern in business.

在這種情況下，這是一個引導性問題。我很感激，艾拉。在這種情況下，我們所做的是，從試圖引入免費客戶以增加份額（以犧牲其他東西為代價），轉變為試圖從一開始就教育客戶，告訴他們，如果你來找我們，我們對你作為客戶的期望是，在這種情況下，你試圖建立一個可行的、持續經營的業務。

And if you do, you need to be compliant. And that is difficult and challenging so that if you don't have your own general counsel, if you don't have an outside law firm, you should leverage our products and services because they are going to be far more cost effective than ending up being fined down the road or worse, being shut down temporarily or permanently. And we've had early success in that respect, pivoting some of these customers both to our higher-value formation products and upselling and moving them into compliance at higher prices.

如果你這麼做，你就需要遵守規定。這是困難且富有挑戰性的，因此，如果您沒有自己的總法律顧問，如果您沒有外部律師事務所，您應該利用我們的產品和服務，因為它們的成本效益遠高於最終被罰款，或更糟的是被暫時或永久關閉。我們在這方面已經取得了早期的成功，將部分客戶轉向我們更高價值的形成產品，並以更高的價格進行追加銷售並使他們達到合規要求。

Yeah, just to build on that, one of the ways that we've done that is leveraging BOIR, for example. So BOIR is an example of how remaining compliant for a business owner is becoming increasingly complex. And so, the fact that they're paying attention to this new requirement that's come up has allowed us to also provide additional education on the other compliance-related products that we offer and be able to shift some of those customers into those subscriptions.

是的，為了在此基礎上再接再厲，我們所採用的方法之一就是利用 BOIR。因此，BOIR 就是一個例子，說明對企業主來說，維持合規變得越來越複雜。因此，他們關注這項新要求的事實使我們能夠對我們提供的其他合規相關產品進行額外教育，並能夠將部分客戶轉移到這些訂閱中。

That's really helpful. Thank you so much, Noel and Jeff. And as a quick follow-up, I know you talked about testing higher price points with a few products, one of which was registered agent service. Are there any other products and services that you call out that you think there might be some pricing power in?

這真的很有幫助。非常感謝，諾埃爾和傑夫。作為一個快速的跟進，我知道您談到了用一些產品測試更高的價格點，其中之一就是註冊代理服務。您認為還有哪些產品和服務可能有定價權？

All of them, if I can be blunt. It's not just about the elasticity curve in this business. It's about the value that we're driving and the way we want our business to be considered by our customers. And it's what our customers are telling us as well.

我可以直言不諱地說，全部都是。這個行業不僅涉及彈性曲線。這關乎我們所追求的價值以及我們希望客戶如何看待我們的業務。我們的客戶也這麼告訴我們。

What we deliver is peace of mind. And there's huge value in going with the industry leader to get that peace of mind. We are way cheaper and probably always will be than going to a law firm. And we have been in a race to the bottom for far too long, and we don't think it's doing our company a service. It is cheapening our brand. So I think we are looking at this in almost all cases.

我們傳遞的是安心。與產業領導者合作對於獲得這種安心具有巨大的價值。與去律師事務所相比，我們的做法更便宜，而且可能永遠都是如此。我們已經在這場逐底競爭中待了太久了，我們認為這對我們公司沒有任何好處。這正在貶低我們的品牌。所以我認為我們在幾乎所有情況下都在關注這個問題。

That doesn't mean that there aren't going to be certain areas where we want lower pricing, whether that's from a marketing perspective or because we think that that's the right value-to-price equation. But for the most part, we're more inclined to be the value-priced provider, not the low-cost provider.

這並不意味著我們不會在某些領域降低價格，無論是從行銷角度來看，還是因為我們認為這是正確的價值與價格等式。但大多數情況下，我們更傾向於成為物有所值的供應商，而不是低成本的供應商。

That's really helpful, Jeff. Thanks so much.

這真的很有幫助，傑夫。非常感謝。

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time, so I'd like to thank everyone for your participation in today's conference. Since the program is concluded, you may now disconnect. Thank you.

謝謝。現在沒有其他問題了，感謝大家參加今天的會議。由於程式已結束，您現在可以斷開連線。謝謝。