Live Nation Entertainment Inc (LYV) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. My name is John, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to Live Nation's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings call. I would now like to turn the call over to Ms. Yong. Thank you, Ms. Yong, you may begin your conference.

午安.我叫約翰，今天我將擔任您的會議主持人。現在，我歡迎大家參加 Live Nation 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。現在我想把電話轉給楊女士。謝謝您，楊女士，您可以開始您的會議了。

Good afternoon, and welcome to the Live Nation full year and fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. Joining us today is our President and CEO, Michael Rapino, and our President and CFO, Joe Berchtold. We would like to remind you that this afternoon's call will contain certain forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ, including statements related to the company's anticipated financial performance, business prospects and new developments and similar matters.

下午好，歡迎參加 Live Nation 2024 年全年及第四季財報電話會議。今天與我們一起出席的有我們的總裁兼執行長 Michael Rapino 和總裁兼財務長 Joe Berchtold。我們想提醒您，今天下午的電話會議將包含某些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果有所不同，其中包括與公司預期財務業績、業務前景和新發展及類似事項有關的陳述。

Please refer to Live Nation's SEC filings, including the risk factors and cautionary statements included in the company's most recent filings on forms 10-K, 10-Q and 8-K for a description of risks and uncertainties that could impact the actual results. Live Nation will also refer to some non-GAAP measures on this call. In accordance with the SEC regulation G, Live Nation has provided definitions of these measures and a full reconciliation to the most comparable GAAP measures in our earnings release. The release reconciliation can be found under the financial information section on Live Nation's website.

請參閱 Live Nation 向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 提交的文件，包括公司最近提交的 10-K、10-Q 和 8-K 表格中包含的風險因素和警示聲明，以了解可能影響實際結果的風險和不確定性。Live Nation 也將在本次電話會議上參考一些非 GAAP 指標。根據美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 的 G 條例，Live Nation 在我們的收益報告中提供了這些指標的定義以及與最具可比性的 GAAP 指標的完整對帳。您可以在 Live Nation 網站的財務資訊部分找到發布對帳單。

With that, we will now take your questions. Operator?

現在我們將回答大家的提問。操作員？

Thank you. We will now be conducting a question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star, one, on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate that your line is in the queue. You may press star, two, to remove yourself from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. We ask that you please limit yourself to one question and one follow up. Thank you. One moment please, while we poll for questions.

謝謝。我們現在將進行問答環節。如果您想提問，請按電話鍵盤上的星號 1。確認音將表示您的線路已在排隊中。您可以按星號二將自己從佇列中移除。對於使用揚聲器裝置的參與者，可能需要先拿起聽筒，然後按星號鍵。我們要求您只提出一個問題並進行一次跟進。謝謝。請稍等片刻，我們正在調查問題。

And the first question comes from the line of Stephen Laszczyk with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed with your question.

第一個問題來自高盛的 Stephen Laszczyk。請繼續您的問題。

Hey, guys, thanks for taking the questions. Maybe to start it off for Michael on consumer demand. You guys have put a lot of stadium supply on the market over the last few months. I'm curious if you maybe could talk a little bit more about the demand trends you're seeing play out across the slate so far this year? Is there anything that you're seeing that makes you any more constructive or perhaps any more cautious on the demand front since we last caught up in November before a lot of the supply went on sale?

嘿，夥計們，感謝你們回答問題。或許麥可可以從消費者需求著手。過去幾個月裡，你們向市場投放了大量體育場館供應。我很好奇，您是否可以再多談談今年到目前為止您所看到的整個需求趨勢？自從我們上次在 11 月大量供應尚未出售之前趕上需求形勢以來，您是否看到了什麼，讓您在需求方面更加有建設性或更加謹慎？

Thank you, Stephen. As you said, we've had a great start to the year. We've got a lot of inventory in the marketplace. We are seeing continued strong demand. We're seeing sell through rates at the stadium level higher than any previous year. We look at one stat, the first week on sales, we're selling through over 75%, and that's much higher than the last year. So, we're seeing consumers buying up those stadium dates faster than ever, up year-over-year, or any comparable base. So, no slow down at all. Lots of inventory, but equally great demand, selling most of these stadiums, out or close to being sold out by the time we get to the show dates.

謝謝你，史蒂芬。正如您所說，我們今年有一個好的開始。我們在市場上有大量庫存。我們看到需求持續強勁。我們看到體育場級別的銷售率比往年任何一年都高。我們來看一個統計數據，銷售第一周，我們的銷售量就超過 75%，比去年高得多。因此，我們看到消費者購買體育場館門票的速度比以往任何時候都快，同比增長，或任何可比基數都有所增長。因此，根本沒有減速。庫存很多，但需求也同樣巨大，到演出日期時，大多數體育場的門票都已售罄或接近售罄。

That's great. And then maybe a follow up for Joe. Given that inventory that Michael spoke to on the stadium side this year and the mix shift in that direction, I'm curious, Joe, if you could speak a little bit more about the puts and takes on concert segment margin, or maybe how we should think about AOI growth this year? How does the mix shift back towards stadiums in '25 impact that? And I'm curious as well, the visibility you feel like you have on the Venue Nation amphitheater side of the equation this year, now, that factors into the AOI growth for the segment?

那太棒了。然後也許可以問一下喬。考慮到邁克爾今年談到的體育場館庫存，以及市場結構朝著這個方向的變化，喬，我很好奇，你能否再談談演唱會部分利潤的利弊，或者我們應該如何看待今年的AOI增長？25 年混合風格轉向體育場會對此產生什麼影響？我也很好奇，您覺得今年 Venue Nation 露天劇場的知名度如何，這對該領域的 AOI 成長有什麼影響？

Yeah. Thanks, Stephen. I think that this year is going to be more like a '23 year, as we look at how we're growing the business. With all this stadium volume leading the way, I'd expect to see some good revenue growth. I think Ticketmaster, first and foremost, will be a big beneficiary. I talked a lot about last year on the other side, that it took 10 amp shows to deliver the kind of revenue for Ticketmaster as one stadium show. Now we have all those stadium shows. So, I think you'll really see that benefiting on the Ticketmaster side.

是的。謝謝，史蒂芬。我認為今年將更像是 23 年，因為我們將著眼於如何發展業務。隨著體育場館數量的不斷增加，我預計收入將會有不錯的成長。我認為 Ticketmaster 首先會成為最大的受益者。另一方面，我去年談了很多，Ticketmaster 需要 10 場演出才能帶來一場體育場演出的收入。現在我們有所有這些體育場表演。所以，我認為您確實會看到這對 Ticketmaster 有利。

I think that we continue to have a sponsorship business that's performing extremely well. We note here, 75% sold, up double-digits. So, you expect that to continue to deliver some ongoing strong growth. Then on the concert side, all these shows, all these stadium shows, we're absolutely making money on, attractive returns. We just don't get to count the beer money and the parking money, as we do with our own venues. So, I think it will ultimately come down to the pace of revenue growth versus the pace of AOI growth, which we don't know yet because we haven't gotten into the amp season.

我認為我們的贊助業務繼續表現得非常好。我們注意到，銷量已達 75%，成長了兩位數。因此，您預計這將繼續帶來持續強勁的成長。然後在音樂會方面，所有這些演出，所有這些體育場演出，我們絕對都在賺錢，獲得可觀的回報。我們只是不必像在自己的場館那樣計算啤酒費和停車費。因此，我認為最終將取決於收入成長速度與 AOI 成長率的關係，由於我們尚未進入 amp 季節，因此我們還不知道。

To the latter part of your question on how much growth do we get on our per caps, at our amps, at our festivals, theaters and clubs, over the course of the year, all of that will just help determine the exact balance of revenue growth versus AOI growth there. But we expect to see all of the businesses performing well this year. And as Michael said, in aggregate, continuing to deliver double-digit AOI growth for the business.

對於您問題的後半部分，即在一年的時間裡，我們的場館、節日、劇院和俱樂部的人均收入增長了多少，所有這些都將有助於確定收入增長與 AOI 增長之間的確切平衡。但我們預計今年所有業務都會表現良好。正如邁克爾所說，總體而言，繼續為業務帶來兩位數的 AOI 成長。

That’s great. Thank you both.

那太好了。謝謝你們兩位。

And the next question comes from the line of Brandon Ross with LightShed Partners. Please proceed with your question.

下一個問題來自 LightShed Partners 的 Brandon Ross。請繼續您的問題。

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking the questions. Something that stood out in the release to me was that Ticketmaster transacted ticket volume. You said was up only 3%, and then the event-related deferred at 11%. I thought that would have been much higher, given the pipeline, and frankly, the answer that you gave to Stephen's last question. Can you guys explain the disconnect for me?

嗨，大家好。感謝您回答這些問題。對我來說，發布中引人注目的是 Ticketmaster 交易的票務量。您說只上漲了 3%，然後與事件相關的遞延上漲了 11%。我認為，考慮到頻道，以及坦率地說，考慮到你對史蒂芬的最後一個問題的回答，這個數字會高得多。你們能為我解釋一下斷開的原因嗎？

Sure. Let me take the two different pieces, because I think they're slightly different in terms of what's going on. So, Ticketmaster transacted volume, as you noted, is up 3% while our concert tickets are up 10%. So, if you look at the numbers, our concert tickets are up around 6 million, the TM transacted tickets, which is everything at the high end of all of our tickets to at the lower end, family shows and other lower price things, up 3%, but off of roughly almost double the base.

當然。讓我來談談這兩個不同的部分，因為我認為它們在發生的事情上略有不同。因此，正如您所說，Ticketmaster 的交易量增長了 3%，而我們的音樂會門票數量增長了 10%。所以，如果你看一下數字，你會發現我們的音樂會門票增加了約 600 萬張，TM 交易的門票（包括所有門票中的高端門票和低端門票、家庭演出和其他低價門票）增加了 3%，但幾乎是基數的兩倍。

So, what you have is, at this point of the year, strong growth in the Live Nation concerts that Ticketmaster has been selling. You have a bit less activity in some of the other, whether they're promoters or some of the other activity in the Ticketmaster buildings, but we're still very early in the Ticketmaster scheme. It's about 100 million tickets, and we ended up the year last year at about 330 million tickets. We expect to see growth off of that. So, we're at a pretty early point for the Ticketmaster volume, as opposed to somewhat further along on the Live Nation side. So, I think it's a bit early to read too much into that number.

因此，在今年這個時候，Ticketmaster 銷售的 Live Nation 音樂會票銷售呈現強勁成長。在其他一些方面，無論是發起人還是 Ticketmaster 大樓內的其他活動，我們的活動都比較少，但我們在 Ticketmaster 計劃中仍處於非常早期的階段。大約有 1 億張票，去年年底我們大約售出了 3.3 億張票。我們期望看到由此帶來的成長。因此，就 Ticketmaster 的銷量而言，我們還處於相當早期的階段，而 Live Nation 的銷量則稍微領先一些。所以，我認為現在對這個數字進行過度解讀還為時過早。

Then in terms of the deferred, I think the onsale timing this year was slightly different than what we saw last year. This year, because we had such a strong stadium lineup, that really owned the fourth quarter in terms of the majority of the onsales. So that drove growth, but we didn't have as early of onsales on the arenas and the amphitheaters as we had last year. Last year because we didn't have the stadium volume, at the end of '23, we saw some earlier onsales on the arena and amphitheater side. So that's, in effect, why you got at the double-digit level of deferred growth at that point.

然後就延期而言，我認為今年的發售時間與去年略有不同。今年，由於我們擁有如此強大的體育場陣容，因此在第四季度，我們確實佔據了大部分的銷售份額。這推動了成長，但我們在體育館和露天劇場的銷售不如去年那麼早。去年，由於我們沒有達到體育場的票房規模，在 23 年底，我們看到了競技場和露天劇場的一些早期銷售。所以，實際上，這就是為什麼你在那個時候實現了兩位數的延遲成長。

Great. And then, Michael, you talked a lot about the strong demand for stadium shows in answering Stephen's question, but just optically, I look at some of these shows, and I see a lot of high-priced tickets still on sale for high profile shows. Do you think ticket pricing is getting ahead of itself, or is there some other explanation for that? And how should we expect apples-to-apples ticket prices to grow this year, so stadium versus stadium?

偉大的。然後，邁克爾，在回答史蒂芬的問題時，你談了很多關於體育場演出的強勁需求，但從表面上看，我看了其中一些演出，發現很多高價門票仍在出售，這些都是備受矚目的演出。您是否認為票價過高，或有其他原因？那麼，我們該如何預期今年體育場與體育場之間的同類門票價格會成長呢？

Yeah. I think you're seeing, the artist in general every cycle is a little more educated on what's the best way to price my ticket, how do I keep it accessible to my fans, but make sure scalpers don't run away with the front of the house. So, we love seeing these stadiums sitting somewhere around 95% sold out right now. The instant we sold out at 10:00 a.m. means we transferred a lot of wealth to the scalpers. If you see any of those tickets--any tickets you're talking about are going to be the high-end tickets sitting on the market. Those will flush out between now and show date.

是的。我想你看到了，每個週期的藝術家總體上都會更加了解票價的最佳定價方式，如何讓我的粉絲能夠買到票，但要確保黃牛不會搶走演出門票。因此，我們很高興看到這些體育場的門票目前已售出約 95%。我們在上午10點賣出的那一刻，意味著我們把大量的財富轉移給了黃牛。如果您看到任何一張門票——您所說的任何門票都將是市場上的高端門票。從現在到演出日期之間，這些將會被清除。

So, we think these artists on their stadium pricing are priced at almost perfection, where there is strong, strong demand. They also added more venues, which we love. So, they're helping consumers get to more shows at a good price but also making sure that it's priced closer to market, which means you'll have a few high-end tickets sit around the rim until we get closer to show date. So that's the perfect on sale and land the plane on show day model.

因此，我們認為這些藝術家在體育場的定價幾乎是完美的，因為需求非常強烈。他們還增加了更多場地，我們很喜歡。因此，他們不僅幫助消費者以優惠的價格觀看更多演出，還確保票價更接近市場價格，這意味著在接近演出日期之前，你會有一些高端門票閒置。因此，這是完美的銷售和展覽日飛機降落模型。

So, would it be silly to partially think about it as you're taking away from secondary ticketers or ticket platforms, and that's moving more to primary now?

那麼，當你從二級售票處或售票平台中抽身而出，轉向一級售票處時，部分地考慮這一點是否很愚蠢？

Yes, for sure. I think the artists—we’ve been saying this for years, every tour is looking at that P1 and making sure that if their fan is going to buy it, they would rather buy it from them, direct on show day than two days later from a secondary site, ours included. So yes, artists are going to figure out how to keep pricing the P1s a little more aggressively. Price the bottom back end of the house, lower, so we get a great sell through.

是的，當然。我認為藝術家們——我們多年來一直在說這個——每次巡演都會關注 P1，並確保如果他們的粉絲要購買它，他們寧願在演出當天直接從他們那裡購買，而不是兩天后從二級網站購買，包括我們的。所以，是的，藝術家們會想辦法讓 P1 的定價更加激進一些。將房屋的底端定價得較低，這樣我們就能獲得很好的銷售量。

Those artists you're talking about, any inventory you see, we could sell that out in a minute if we drop the price. Right? So, finding that right combination where you're making sure demand and supply kind of march along on the way to the show date versus the 10:00 a.m. fire sale.

您所談論的那些藝術家，您看到的任何庫存，如果我們降低價格，我們都可以在一分鐘內完成。正確的？因此，找到正確的組合，確保需求和供應在展會期間順利進行，而不是在上午 10 點的大甩賣期間。

Thanks, Michael.

謝謝，麥可。

And the next question comes from the line of Cameron Mansson-Perrone with Morgan Stanley. Please proceed with your question.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Cameron Mansson-Perrone。請繼續您的問題。

Thank you. First, just want to say thoughts go out to you guys and everyone in the LA office, after everything that's happened this year. Pretty tough. Hope everyone's hanging in as well as can be expected. But Michael, one high-level question for you. As we frame the opportunity you've laid out for sustained double-digit AOI growth over the next few years, I just, I'd love to hear your thoughts on whether you expect the drivers of that performance to evolve over that time frame, or whether it's really just down to executing against a similar playbook as what supported the growth that you delivered here in '24?

謝謝。首先，我只想對你們以及洛杉磯辦公室的每個人表示慰問，感謝你們今年發生的一切。相當艱難。希望每個人都能像預期的那樣堅持下去。但是邁克爾，我想問你一個高層次的問題。當我們為未來幾年持續兩位數的 AOI 成長制定機會時，我很想聽聽您的想法，您是否預計這種表現的驅動因素會在這段時間內發生變化，或者這是否真的只是按照與支持您在 24 年實現的增長的類似的策略執行？

And then one for Joe, on the outlook for $900 million CapEx in '25, another big increase similar to what we saw in ‘24, what would you say investors should take away from the decision to ramp that so healthily in terms of ROI you're seeing from that spend so far? And any help with framing the timing from kind of investment outflow to the returns showing up on the P&L will be helpful. Thanks.

然後問喬一個問題，關於 25 年 9 億美元資本支出的前景，與我們在 24 年看到的類似，這是又一次大幅增長，從您迄今為止看到的投資回報率來看，您認為投資者應該從如此健康地增加這一支出的決定中得到什麼？任何有助於確定從投資流出到損益表上顯示的回報的時間的幫助都是有幫助的。謝謝。

I'll go back to your first question, if I can remember it. But yeah, listen, we love consistency over here. So, if you've been following our stock and you've been to our investor days the last few years, we haven't deviated really from what we think our thesis of why the industry is a great industry. On a global basis, we think Live has a real global unlock and will be a high-single, double-digit kind of industry for the next decade, as we saw our Coldplay show in India sell out, largest single concert in history, 125,000 people. We saw those dates sell out instantly.

如果我記得的話，我會回到你的第一個問題。但是，是的，聽著，我們喜歡這裡的一致性。因此，如果您一直在關注我們的股票，並且在過去幾年中參加過我們的投資者日，您會發現我們並沒有偏離我們對這個行業為何是一個偉大行業的論點。從全球範圍來看，我們認為現場演出具有真正的全球解鎖性，並將在未來十年內成為一個高個位數、兩位數的行業，正如我們所見，酷玩樂隊在印度的演出門票銷售一空，是歷史上規模最大的單場音樂會，共有 125,000 人觀看。我們發現這些日期的門票很快就售罄了。

So, we've been talking a lot about the globalization of consumer. Supply, demand of the globalization. Untapped markets to grow still. So, our model is the same. We're 100 offices in about 40 countries, keep growing those offices, growing our market share in those underdeveloped markets, and we will continue to follow that global trend of more consumers wanting to go to shows from Pittsburgh to the Philippines. So, we think the industry is growing. We tend to grow better than the industry and be able to capture the revenue from our consumers walking in the door.

我們一直在談論消費者的全球化。全球化的供給、需求。尚未開發的市場仍在成長。所以，我們的模型是一樣的。我們在大約 40 個國家設有 100 個辦事處，並將繼續增加這些辦事處的數量，擴大我們在欠發達市場的市場份額，我們將繼續順應全球趨勢，即更多消費者希望從匹茲堡到菲律賓觀看展會。因此，我們認為該行業正在成長。我們往往比產業發展得更好，並且能夠從上門的消費者那裡獲取收入。

And Cameron, I think in some regards, your second question is the same as your first question, right, which is, if our thesis is we're going to grow to 200 million fans is the next step, and the different levers we have, and venue side is a key piece of it, then certainly our capital deployment is going to mirror the delivery of that AOI growth. So, I think we should take from the fact that we're increasing our capital spend as we're continuing to see a lot of opportunities that have very attractive returns globally. Again, heavily focused internationally at the arena level. Globally, focused on these large theaters, both types of venues that can, not just, deliver attractive returns, but also move some reasonable volume of fans, expand our shows, grow the market.

卡梅倫，我認為在某些方面，你的第二個問題與你的第一個問題是一樣的，對吧，也就是說，如果我們的論點是下一步我們要發展到 2 億粉絲，並且我們擁有不同的槓桿，而場館方面是其中的關鍵部分，那麼我們的資本部署肯定會反映 AOI 增長的實現。因此，我認為我們應該從增加資本支出這一事實中獲益，因為我們在全球範圍內繼續看到許多具有非常誘人回報的機會。再次，高度關注國際舞台層面。在全球範圍內，我們專注於這些大型劇院，這兩種類型的場館不僅可以帶來可觀的回報，還可以吸引一定數量的粉絲，擴大我們的演出規模，擴大市場。

So, that's the biggest takeaway I take from that. In terms of the timing, these projects are all different in terms of how long they take from shoveling the dirt through growing it out. What we're trying to do, and we gave you some pieces here, is some understanding of when or what venues opening to how many millions of fans to give you some guide for how we're seeing the impact roll in.

所以，這是我從中得到的最大收穫。從時間上看，這些項目從鏟土到長出所需的時間各不相同。我們正在嘗試做的，以及我們在這裡為您提供的一些信息，是了解何時或哪些場館向多少百萬粉絲開放，以便為您提供一些指導，讓您了解我們如何看待影響。

Got it. Helpful. Thank you both.

知道了。很有幫助。謝謝你們兩位。

And the next question comes from the line of David Karnovsky with J.P. Morgan. Please proceed with your question.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的 David Karnovsky。請繼續您的問題。

Hi. Thank you. So just wondering, music labels and DSPs have recently come to agreements that may allow for super premium tiers, and wondering if you've thought of, potentially, about the role of live music within some of these offerings, maybe with something like ticket access. Is there inventory that could be made available, and could this be a potential sponsor opportunity?

你好。謝謝。所以我只是想知道，音樂廠牌和 DSP 最近達成了可能允許超高端層的協議，並且想知道您是否考慮過現場音樂在其中一些產品中的作用，也許包括門票訪問之類的功能。是否有可提供的庫存？這是否是一個潛在的贊助機會？

Yeah. Thanks, David. Yeah. We currently, our job is to use that inventory that we've acquired from the artist and maximize it through sponsorship currently, and we have a lot of pre-sale programs in place with, you've seen them all, Verizons and Citi Banks, etc. So, our job is always to look at that show, work with the artist, and figure out, is there ways to maximize that inventory, to business, as well as consumers.

是的。謝謝，大衛。是的。我們目前的工作是利用從藝術家那裡獲得的庫存，並透過贊助將其最大化，並且我們與許多銀行（你們都看到了，包括 Verizons 和花旗銀行等）合作實施了許多預售計劃。因此，我們的工作始終是專注於演出，與藝術家合作，並找出是否有辦法將這些庫存最大化，以惠及企業和消費者。

As far as the latest round from Spotify and Apple and Amazon, they've approached us all. We've talked to them all about ideas on if they wanted inventory. There's a cost to that, and we would entertain and look at that option if it made sense for us in comparison to other options, we have for that pre-sale, which is a very valuable asset. The artists themselves tend to do their own deals. We do deals for the artist, but ultimately, the artist has control of it, and that artist's job is to maximize the revenue from it. They're not giving that away to anyone for free.

就 Spotify、Apple 和 Amazon 的最新一輪融資而言，他們已經與我們所有人進行了接洽。我們已經與他們討論了他們是否需要庫存的所有想法。這是有成本的，如果與其他選擇相比，這個選擇對我們來說更有意義，我們會考慮並研究這個選擇，這是我們預售的一項非常寶貴的資產。藝術家們往往自己做交易。我們為藝術家做交易，但最終控制權掌握在藝術家手中，而藝術家的工作就是最大限度地提高收入。他們不會免費將其贈送給任何人。

So, whether we partnered with them and found sponsors or we paid for it, it's valuable, and wouldn't surprise me, of course, the labels or the distributors, if they're trying to add a $5 premium to a monthly subscription, and they don't have enough of their own inventory in terms of music or free songs. It's always the easy, go-to, let's give them pre-sale access. The hard part about pre-sale is just scaling it. Everybody wants Beyonce pre-sale, and that's hard to scale. So, we've been working with all three of them, trying to find a model that may work for us and them, and assume they're talking to others also.

因此，無論我們是與他們合作並找到贊助商，還是我們自己付費，這都是有價值的，當然，如果唱片公司或分銷商試圖在每月訂閱費中增加 5 美元的額外費用，而他們自己的音樂或免費歌曲庫存又不夠，我也不會感到驚訝。這總是很容易做到的，讓我們給他們預售權限。預售的困難部分在於擴大規模。每個人都希望碧昂絲進行預售，但這很難擴大規模。因此，我們一直在與他們三人合作，試圖找到對我們和他們都適用的模型，並假設他們也在與其他人交談。

And then maybe just separate, the DOJ antitrust nominee recently indicated some openness to settlements where effective remedies can be put into place. Just wondering kind of what room you see to advance discussions with the agency, or relative to the prior administration? And then, I don't know, just separate to this, are there any updates you can give on just the trial in terms of timing or kind of notable dates to be aware of?

然後也許只是單獨的，司法部反壟斷提名人最近表示對可以實施有效補救措施的和解持開放態度。只是想知道您認為與該機構或相對於前任政府有哪些進一步討論的空間？然後，我不知道，除此之外，您能否提供有關試驗時間或值得注意的日期方面的任何更新？

Yeah, this is Joe. The trial process continues to move a pace, as it has, targeting early next year for a trial date. So, question is, is over the course of this year, is there a path towards a resolution with the DOJ that doesn't lead to the trial? We've said in the last administration, there was really no interest in any discussion on settlement. So, we're hoping that this DOJ returns to a more traditional approach and is open, because they don't own it in the same way, to those discussions. But we haven't had any discussions yet. The person that you would discuss it with has not been approved yet, not been appointed. So, until that happens, there's nothing we can do, and we'll see how that plays out in the coming months. But nothing really, substantively new.

是的，我是喬。審判進程仍在持續推進，預計明年年初開庭。那麼，問題是，今年是否有一條途徑可以與司法部達成解決方案，而不導致審判？我們說過，上屆政府對任何和解討論其實都不感興趣。因此，我們希望司法部能夠恢復更傳統的方式，並對這些討論持開放態度，因為他們對這些討論的態度與以往不同。但我們尚未進行任何討論。您要與之討論此事的人尚未獲得批准，也尚未被任命。所以，在那之前我們無能為力，我們將在接下來的幾個月中看看事情會如何發展。但實際上並沒有什麼實質的新內容。

Ok.

好的。

And the next question comes from the line of Peter Supino with Wolfe Research. Please proceed with your question.

下一個問題來自 Wolfe Research 的 Peter Supino。請繼續您的問題。

Hi, everybody. A question on Venue Nation capital. Wondering if the 2025 budget, which I think you detailed as being $200 million or $300 million greater than 2024, is showing any change in the mix of U.S. versus International? And then a parallel question on the large arenas. For the 15,000 to 20,000 seat segment, I'm wondering if those opportunities are coming any faster or slower than you imagined, and whether your appetite to invest in that particular segment has shifted at all? Thank you.

大家好。關於場地國家資本的一個問題。想知道 2025 年的預算（我認為您詳細說明為比 2024 年多 2 億或 3 億美元）是否顯示美國和國際的組合有任何變化？然後是關於大型競技場的類似問題。對於擁有 15,000 至 20,000 個座位的細分市場，我想知道這些機會來得比您想像的要快還是要慢，以及您對該特定細分市場的投資興趣是否有所轉變？謝謝。

I'll do the second question. Joe can do the first. Oh, sorry. I was just going to jump on the second. The large opportunities on an international basis are coming consistently, ongoing. So, continues to see that ramp up. We tend to be the first, second phone call if you're a developer thinking about building or have land and want to use that land or have a venue you want to sell. So, we see that pipeline growing, and our appetite still remains very large to expand on that platform.

我來回答第二個問題。喬可以做第一件事。噢，對不起。我正要跳到第二步。國際上的巨大機會正在不斷湧現。因此，我們將繼續看到這種增長。如果您是開發商，正在考慮建造或擁有土地並想使用該土地，或者擁有想要出售的場地，我們往往是您第一個或第二個聯繫的對象。因此，我們看到該管道正在不斷增長，我們仍然非常渴望在該平台上進行擴展。

And just on that same thread, Michael just answered the first question too, which is, I think that in general, you'll see a trend towards more of the capital being deployed internationally because of the attractiveness and volume of those arena opportunities.

就在同一個主題上，麥可也回答了第一個問題，那就是，我認為總的來說，你會看到一種趨勢，即更多的資本被部署到國際上，因為這些競技場機會的吸引力和數量。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And the next question comes from the line of Peter Henderson with Bank of America. Please proceed with your question.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的彼得·亨德森 (Peter Henderson)。請繼續您的問題。

Hi, everyone. So just wondering, I mean, there's been some concerns over the softness of U.S. consumer, particularly on the low end recently. It doesn't sound like you guys are experiencing any of that, but coming back to sort of Brandon's question as well, are you seeing any trade down from more affluent cohorts, and what are you seeing, sort of from the more value conscious consumer? And just related to that, I'm wondering, you recently announced that there will not be a lawn pass program in '25 and I'm wondering if you give any color on sort of the size of that and why the decision was made to end that program, and what other programs you're considering?

大家好。所以我只是想知道，最近人們對美國消費疲軟，特別是低端消費，感到有些擔憂。聽起來你們似乎沒有經歷過這些，但回到布蘭登的問題，你是否看到富裕群體的消費下降，以及你看到更注重價值的消費者的消費下降是什麼？與此相關，我想知道，您最近宣布 25 年將不再有草坪通行證計劃，我想知道您是否說明過該計劃的規模以及為什麼決定終止該計劃，以及您正在考慮哪些其他計劃？

Yeah. I mean, overall, the demand we're seeing for the concert. And I assume the NFL has got the similar answer. We're seeing no pullback. It's still on a global basis. We're seeing strong demand. We're seeing it in a small to big, so yes, Beyonces are always going to have incredible demand, but if you look at my club business, we're going to do 30,000 club shows in a year. Our club business is up 17% year-over-year. So that's kind of the simplest way to say, bottom end on a Tuesday in Indianapolis, my business is doing better. Consumers are coming to the club to see the young bands.

是的。我的意思是，總的來說，我們看到了對音樂會的需求。我認為 NFL 也得到了類似的答案。我們沒有看到任何回調。它仍然是全球性的。我們看到了強勁的需求。我們看到這種情況從小到大都有，所以是的，碧昂絲總是會有令人難以置信的需求，但如果你看看我的俱樂部生意，我們一年要舉辦 30,000 場俱樂部表演。我們的俱樂部業務年增17%。用最簡單的方式來說，在印第安納波利斯的一個星期二，我的生意做得更好了。消費者來到俱樂部是為了觀賞年輕樂團的表演。

So, we're seeing our festivals, which are on sale already, they're selling at record levels. So, I'm seeing no pullback in any festivals, from EDM to our country festival. As we always say, someone will write about one that gets canceled, or a dog here and there, but generally, overall, macro-ly, our festival business globally is stronger than ever. Our club and theater business is stronger than ever, and obviously our stadium business is on fire. So, whether it's geographical, whether it's venue type, or whether it's festival, we're still seeing strong, strong consumer across the board in terms of buying tickets for the '25 season.

因此，我們看到我們的節日商品已經開始銷售，其銷售量達到了創紀錄的水平。因此，我認為從 EDM 到鄉村音樂節，任何音樂節都沒有衰退的跡象。正如我們常說的那樣，有人會寫一些關於被取消的活動，或者到處都是狗的事情，但總的來說，從宏觀上講，我們的全球節日業務比以往任何時候都更加強勁。我們的俱樂部和劇院業務比以往更加強勁，而且顯然我們的體育場業務也十分火爆。因此，無論是地理位置、場地類型還是節日，我們仍然看到消費者在購買 25 年演出季門票方面表現強勁。

As far as the Lawn Pass, it's a very small program, and we put some new leadership in charge of venues this year. We expanded Jordan Zachary's role and put some new thinking around, how do we sell the summer amphitheater? I think our belief was we were discounting too much, too early with some of the programs we had. So, it was to pull back and relaunch, which we always do, our Annual Concert Week, is kind of our big, if you want to call that, our Amazon Prime Day, our Concert Week earlier in the spring, beginning of the summer. That's kind of our big, big deal where we sell all of our volume that matters. So, we're going to just consolidate around that bigger idea, and we're going to eliminate some of the smaller programs that were selling, small, small volume of tickets overall.

就草坪通行證而言，這是一個非常小的項目，今年我們任命了一些新的領導者來負責場館。我們擴大了喬丹·扎卡里的角色，並提出了一些新的想法，我們如何銷售夏季露天劇場？我認為我們認為我們對某些項目的折扣太大、過早。因此，我們像往常一樣，撤回並重新啟動我們的年度音樂會週，這是我們的盛事，如果你想這樣稱呼它，我們的亞馬遜 Prime Day，我們在春季初、夏季初舉辦的音樂會週。這是我們的一個大事，我們要賣掉所有重要的產品。因此，我們將圍繞這個更大的想法進行整合，並取消一些總體售票量較小的小型項目。

Thanks.

謝謝。

And the next question comes from the line of Jason Bazinet with Citibank. Please proceed with your question.

下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Jason Bazinet。請繼續您的問題。

I'm a big fan of the CapEx you're spending, so don't take this the wrong way. It's just a clarifying question. When I look historically at Venue Nation, you’d owned, I don't know, less than 10% of the venues, most were leased or operated or whatever. Is this CapEx really moving more overtly into outright ownership of these arenas? Is that what we're talking about? Or is it spending CapEx and then having the right to lease it at a lower rate or operate it?

我非常贊同你所花費的資本支出，所以不要誤解這一點。這只是一個澄清問題。當我回顧 Venue Nation 的歷史時，我發現你們擁有的場館不到 10%，大多數都是租賃或經營的，或者其他方式。這些資本支出是否真的會更公開地轉向這些競技場的完全所有權？這就是我們正在談論的嗎？還是花費資本支出，然後有權以較低的價格租賃或經營它？

A chunk of it is absolutely owning it. Every situation is different, but we're following your advice and trying to own more, go upstream. So, if we're in a situation where we can own it, dirt on up, we do. Sometimes we can't own the dirt. We'll own the building. If we can't own the building, we'll do as much of the capital build out and minimize our lease. So, you don't always pick exactly what you want, but we're absolutely pushing it further upstream, if you will.

其中很大一部分是絕對擁有的。每個人的情況都不同，但我們會聽從您的建議，努力擁有更多，逆流而上。所以，如果我們處於可以擁有它的境地，那麼我們就會這麼做。有時我們不能擁有污垢。我們將擁有這棟建築。如果我們不能擁有這棟建築，我們將盡可能進行資本建設，並盡量減少租賃。因此，您並不總是能準確選擇自己想要的東西，但如果您願意的話，我們絕對會將其進一步推向上游。

That’s great. Thank you.

那太好了。謝謝。

And the final question comes from the line of Kutgun Maral with Evercore ISI. Please proceed with your question.

最後一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 Kutgun Maral。請繼續您的問題。

Great. Thanks for taking the question. Another one on Venue Nation. You provided a lot of great color at the investor day on the midterm outlook. I know the impacts to the model gets a bit tricky, because, as Joe mentioned, timelines vary greatly depending on how the shovel to dirt to growing the venue out process looks like, but it's an area where we get a lot of questions on. So, I was hoping you could help us think about what the AOI impacts of Venue Nation, maybe was in 2024 and a little bit more specifics around how you see that evolving in 2025, just given the growing venue base there. Thank you.

偉大的。感謝您回答這個問題。另一個是關於 Venue Nation 的。您在投資者日就中期展望提供了許多精彩的見解。我知道對模型的影響有點棘手，因為正如喬提到的那樣，時間表差異很大，取決於從鏟土到場地擴大的過程，但這是我們遇到很多問題的領域。因此，我希望您能幫助我們思考一下 Venue Nation 對 AOI 的影響，也許是在 2024 年，並且考慮到那裡不斷增長的場館基礎，您能更具體地說明這種影響在 2025 年將如何發展。謝謝。

Yeah. We haven't really tried to break it out for you guys as a segment. First of all, part of it, or a good chunk of it, obviously, comes from the sponsorship side. And we've talked that two-thirds of sponsorship is venue driven. So, you've got a component over there, then you've got the operating component, which is heavily driven by your beer and by your parking and so on. So, we haven't really tried to fully model it and break it out that way for you, unfortunately. We try to use what we present at Liberty as the overall guideposts over a midterm basis, as you said, to then try to back in and say, how are these pieces potentially going to roll out? How do they maintain this sort of growth profile over the next several years? And am I comfortable they're going to be able to do it? But we're not really in a place that we're going to break out and give you the standalone Venue Nation business model.

是的。我們還沒有真正嘗試將其作為片段來向你們分解。首先，其中一部分，或者很大一部分，顯然來自贊助方。我們已經說過，三分之二的贊助是由場地驅動的。所以，你在那裡有一個組件，然後你就有了操作組件，它很大程度上受到你的啤酒和停車等的影響。因此，遺憾的是，我們還沒有真正嘗試對其進行全面建模並以這種方式為您分解。正如您所說，我們嘗試將我們在 Liberty 上提出的內容作為中期總體指導方針，然後再回過頭來說，這些部分將如何潛在地展開？他們如何在未來幾年保持這種成長勢頭？我是否確信他們能夠做到這一點？但我們實際上並沒有突破現狀，並為您提供獨立的 Venue Nation 商業模式。

Worth a shot. Thanks, Joe.

值得一試。謝謝，喬。

And I'd like to pass the floor back over to Michael Rapino for any closing remarks.

最後，我想將發言權交還給麥可‧拉皮諾 (Michael Rapino)，請他做最後發言。

Thank you, everybody. Look forward to talking about Q1 in May.

謝謝大家。期待討論五月份的第一季。

Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude today's teleconference. We thank you for your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與。現在您可以斷開線路。