Live Nation Entertainment Inc (LYV) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone. My name is John, and I will be your conference operator on today's call. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to Live Nation Entertainment's First Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

今天是個好日子。我的名字是約翰，我將在今天的電話會議上擔任您的會議接線員。在這個時候，我想歡迎大家參加 Live Nation Entertainment 的 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製中。 （操作員說明）

Before we begin, Live Nation has asked me to remind you that this afternoon's call will contain certain forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ, including statements related to the company's anticipated financial performance, business prospects, new developments and similar matters. Please refer to Live Nation's SEC filings, including the risk factors and cautionary statements included in the company's most recent filings on Forms 10-K, 10-Q and 8-K for a description of risks and uncertainties that could impact the actual results.

在我們開始之前，Live Nation 要求我提醒您，今天下午的電話會議將包含某些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受風險和不確定因素的影響，可能導致實際結果有所不同，包括與公司預期財務業績、業務前景相關的陳述、新進展及類似事項。請參閱 Live Nation 向 SEC 提交的文件，包括公司最近提交的 10-K、10-Q 和 8-K 表格中的風險因素和警告聲明，以了解可能影響實際結果的風險和不確定性的描述。

Live Nation will also refer to some non-GAAP measures on this call. In accordance with the SEC Regulation G, Live Nation has provided definitions of these measures and a full reconciliation to the most comparable GAAP measures in their earnings release or website supplement, which also contains other financial or statistical information to be discussed on this call.

Live Nation 還將在此次電話會議上提及一些非 GAAP 指標。根據 SEC 法規 G，Live Nation 提供了這些措施的定義，並在其收益發布或網站補充中提供了與最具可比性的 GAAP 措施的完全對賬，其中還包含將在本次電話會議上討論的其他財務或統計信息。

The release reconciliation and website supplement can be found under the Financial Information section on Live Nation's website at investors.livenationentertainment.com.

可以在 Live Nation 網站 investors.livenationentertainment.com 的“財務信息”部分下找到發布對帳和網站補充。

It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Michael Rapino, President and Chief Executive Officer of Live Nation Entertainment. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我很高興將會議轉交給 Live Nation Entertainment 總裁兼首席執行官 Michael Rapino。請繼續，先生。

Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us. 2023 is off to a tremendous start. For the first time in 3 years, all of our markets are fully opened. In the common theme we are seeing around the world that live experiences are a high priority for fans.

下午好，感謝您加入我們。 2023 年是一個偉大的開始。 3 年來，我們所有的市場首次全面開放。我們在世界各地看到的共同主題是，現場體驗是粉絲的重中之重。

In Q1, we delivered record results across all divisions as well as record support for artists. From ticket sales, to attendance, and on-site spend, every sign points to incredible demand for live events. In the first quarter, over 19 million fans attended our shows across 45 countries and we sold over 145 million tickets with record levels of activity across all markets.

在第一季度，我們在所有部門都取得了創紀錄的成績，並為藝術家提供了創紀錄的支持。從門票銷售到出席人數和現場消費，每一個跡像都表明對現場活動的需求令人難以置信。第一季度，超過 1900 萬粉絲觀看了我們在 45 個國家/地區的演出，我們售出了超過 1.45 億張門票，所有市場的活動都創下了歷史新高。

We delivered revenue of $3.1 billion and AOI of $320 million, up 73% and 53%, respectively, relative to Q1 last year. In general, all my comments will be relative to Q1 last year. This performance is indicative of a continued long-term growth and set the stage for a record 2023 as we are more positive than ever about artists touring, fans attending concerts to see their favorite artists, and our role helping make this happen.

與去年第一季度相比，我們實現了 31 億美元的收入和 3.2 億美元的 AOI，分別增長了 73% 和 53%。總的來說，我所有的評論都與去年第一季度有關。這一表現表明了持續的長期增長，並為 2023 年創紀錄奠定了基礎，因為我們比以往任何時候都更加積極地對待藝術家巡迴演出、歌迷參加音樂會看他們最喜歡的藝術家，以及我們在幫助實現這一目標方面的作用。

What is clear as we look at our results and operating metrics is that global demand for live events continues to reach new heights. Demand has been growing for a long time and is showing no signs of letting up. Talking to fans, they say that live experiences are the #1 leisure activity where they expect to spend more in the future. Naturally, this is leading to record levels of activity in both our concerts and ticketing business.

當我們查看我們的結果和運營指標時，很明顯全球對現場活動的需求繼續達到新的高度。長期以來，需求一直在增長，而且沒有放緩的跡象。在與粉絲交談時，他們表示現場體驗是排名第一的休閒活動，他們希望在未來花費更多。自然地，這導致我們的音樂會和票務業務的活動達到創紀錄水平。

First, in concerts, we sold nearly 90 million tickets for shows this year, tracking more than 20% ahead of this point last year. These are early sales and have been driven by a record number of stadium shows and continued strong growth in arena tours. With many major tours from Beyonce, Drake to Bruce Springsteen, demand has been so strong that even when artists add a number of additional shows, they still aren't able to meet all of the fan demand. As a further initiative to make tickets affordable to all fans, we launched today our Summer Concert Week, with $25 tickets available to nearly 4,000 shows.

一是演唱會，今年售票近9000萬張，比去年高出20%以上。這些都是早期的銷售，並且受到創紀錄數量的體育場表演和競技場巡迴演出的持續強勁增長的推動。從碧昂絲、德雷克到布魯斯·斯普林斯汀的許多大型巡演，需求如此強勁，以至於即使藝術家增加了一些額外的演出，他們仍然無法滿足所有粉絲的需求。為了讓所有歌迷都能買得起門票，我們今天推出了夏季音樂會周，近 4,000 場演出的門票價格為 25 美元。

When fans attend shows, they continued spending to enhance the experience. While our key outdoor season has not yet started, early reads from U.S. and European indoor venues that we operate demonstrate further growth in average per fan revenue. As we provide more elevated hospitality options for fans, we have launched Vibee, which hosts destination events centered around live music and launched this week with the sale of the U2 Sphere VIP packages selling out.

當粉絲參加演出時，他們會繼續花錢來提升體驗。雖然我們的主要戶外季節尚未開始，但我們運營的美國和歐洲室內場館的早期數據表明，每名粉絲的平均收入進一步增長。隨著我們為粉絲提供更多優質的款待選擇，我們推出了 Vibee，它舉辦以現場音樂為中心的目的地活動，並於本週推出 U2 Sphere VIP 套餐銷售一空。

We've also continued building our Venue Nation portfolio, with new venues expected to host nearly 3 million fans at 1,000 shows this year, driving long-term growth and profitability across all our businesses.

我們還繼續構建我們的場館國家組合，預計今年新場館將在 1,000 場演出中接待近 300 萬粉絲，推動我們所有業務的長期增長和盈利能力。

Our ticketing business benefits from the same structural tailwind as concerts with further growth driven by our success in adding new clients, notably in international markets. As a result, we sold 73 million fee-bearing tickets in the first quarter, up 40% and delivered $7.7 billion in fee-bearing GTV, up 60%. We are seeing growth in both volume and pricing across our global markets. This holds true across all event types from sports to concerts, from biggest superstars to new artists.

我們的票務業務受益於與音樂會相同的結構性順風，我們在增加新客戶方面取得的成功推動了進一步增長，尤其是在國際市場。結果，我們在第一季度售出了 7300 萬張收費門票，增長了 40%，交付了 77 億美元的收費 GTV，增長了 60%。我們看到全球市場的數量和價格都在增長。這適用於從體育到音樂會，從超級巨星到新藝術家的所有活動類型。

Our brand partners recognize the passion for live music has never been greater, and the Live Nation provides a unique on-site and online platform to connect with fans in meaningful ways on a global scale. And in the first quarter, we continued adding partners for 2023 and beyond, including Google Pixel, PayPal and Levi's. With this, we have commitments for over 80% of our planned sponsorship of the year.

我們的品牌合作夥伴認識到現場音樂的熱情從未如此強烈，Live Nation 提供了一個獨特的現場和在線平台，以有意義的方式在全球範圍內與粉絲聯繫。在第一季度，我們繼續增加 2023 年及以後的合作夥伴，包括 Google Pixel、PayPal 和 Levi's。有了這個，我們承諾提供超過 80% 的年度計劃贊助。

Equally important, fans are embracing the value brands can provide to the concert experience, with over 70% of live music goers agreeing that brands can enhance their time at the show. Our team is the best in the industry at working with brands to develop programs that deliver value to fans, which in turn grows our brand relationships and attracts new ones.

同樣重要的是，粉絲們正在接受品牌可以為音樂會體驗提供的價值，超過 70% 的現場音樂觀眾同意品牌可以增加他們在演出中的時間。我們的團隊在與品牌合作開發為粉絲提供價值的計劃方面是業內最優秀的，這反過來又發展了我們的品牌關係並吸引了新的品牌。

Our results for the first quarter demonstrate the success of our strategy and sets up for a strong growth in 2023. We expect to host a record number of fans this year, even against the 2022 comparison which benefited from rescheduled shows attended by 20 million fans. Ticketmaster should deliver record activity with around 600 million tickets managed globally this year. And our sponsorship business, even after incredible growth last year, looks to be on track for double-digit AOI growth this year. As we look to 2024 and beyond, we have all the necessary levers to build our flywheel globally and continue to compound AOI by double digits for the foreseeable future.

我們第一季度的業績表明我們的戰略取得了成功，並為 2023 年的強勁增長做好了準備。我們預計今年將迎來創紀錄的粉絲數量，即使與 2022 年的比較相比，2022 年得益於重新安排的演出，有 2000 萬粉絲參加。今年，Ticketmaster 將在全球範圍內管理約 6 億張門票，創下紀錄。我們的讚助業務，即使在去年取得了令人難以置信的增長之後，今年仍有望實現兩位數的 AOI 增長。展望 2024 年及以後，我們擁有所有必要的槓桿來在全球範圍內構建我們的飛輪，並在可預見的未來繼續以兩位數的速度複合 AOI。

With that, I will turn the call over to Joe to take you through more details.

有了這個，我會把電話轉給喬，讓你了解更多細節。

Thanks, Michael, and good afternoon, everyone. Building on 2022, we started out this year with a record Q1, our highest first quarter revenue, AOI fan count and ticket sales. All of our markets are fully open, selling tickets, hosting tours and connecting brands with fans. Our reported revenue of $3.1 billion for the quarter was $1.3 billion, better than Q1 2022, an increase of 73%.

謝謝，邁克爾，大家下午好。立足於 2022 年，我們以創紀錄的第一季度開局，第一季度收入、AOI 粉絲數量和門票銷售額均創下歷史新高。我們所有的市場都完全開放，售票、舉辦旅遊以及將品牌與粉絲聯繫起來。我們報告的本季度收入為 31 億美元，為 13 億美元，好於 2022 年第一季度，增長了 73%。

On a constant currency basis, our revenue was $3.2 billion for the quarter. So there was roughly a 2% unfavorable impact due to the slight strengthening of the U.S. dollar, primarily against the Canadian and Australian dollars. Given the limited FX impact on our numbers, the rest of my comments will just be reported currency.

按固定匯率計算，本季度我們的收入為 32 億美元。因此，由於美元略微走強（主要是兌加元和澳元），大約有 2% 的不利影響。鑑於外匯對我們數字的影響有限，我的其餘評論將只報告貨幣。

Our reported AOI of $320 million for the quarter was $111 million better than 2022, up 53% with an improvement of $65 million in ticketing, $50 million in concerts and $26 million in sponsorship. Over half of our AOI growth came from our Asia Pacific and Latin America markets where we are expanding our global touring activity and diversifying our historical seasonality. We converted roughly 59% of this AOI to adjusted free cash flow of $190 million, which is significantly higher than our 43% conversion in Q1 2022. In our deferred revenue, a key leading indicator of growth ended this quarter at $4.4 billion, up 28% from this point last year.

我們報告的本季度 AOI 為 3.2 億美元，比 2022 年增加了 1.11 億美元，增長了 53%，票務收入增加了 6500 萬美元，音樂會收入增加了 5000 萬美元，贊助收入增加了 2600 萬美元。我們 AOI 增長的一半以上來自我們的亞太和拉丁美洲市場，我們正在這些市場擴大我們的全球旅遊活動並使我們的歷史季節性多樣化。我們將大約 59% 的 AOI 轉換為調整後的 1.9 億美元自由現金流，這大大高於我們在 2022 年第一季度的 43% 轉換率。在我們的遞延收入中，增長的關鍵領先指標本季度末為 44 億美元，增長 28 % 從去年的這個點開始。

Let me give a bit more color on each division. First, in concerts, we had the highest concert attendance ever for Q1 with 19.5 million fans attending our shows of 79% compared to 2022 when we had approximately 11 million fans. Show count was 9,600 events, up 43% compared to 2022, with more fans per show due to a heavier mix of stadium and arena events and stronger than historical average attendance levels. As a result, our concerts revenue for the year grew by 89% to $2.3 billion, while we delivered $1 million in AOI, a $50 million improvement over Q1 2022. This is the beginning of what we see as a very solid year for our concert segment, including margin expansion relative to last year.

讓我給每個部門更多的顏色。首先，在音樂會方面，我們在第一季度的音樂會上座率達到了有史以來最高的水平，有 1950 萬粉絲參加了我們的演出，而 2022 年我們有大約 1100 萬粉絲，這一比例為 79%。演出數量為 9,600 場，與 2022 年相比增長了 43%，由於體育場和競技場賽事的混合更加頻繁，觀眾人數也高於歷史平均水平，因此每場演出的觀眾人數更多。因此，我們今年的音樂會收入增長了 89%，達到 23 億美元，而我們的 AOI 交付了 100 萬美元，比 2022 年第一季度增加了 5000 萬美元。這是我們認為音樂會非常穩健的一年的開始部分，包括相對於去年的利潤率擴張。

Looking a bit deeper at our fan metrics, we had strong growth across the board. Stadium attendance more than quadrupled to 3.3 million fans this quarter, up from 800,000 fans in 2022. This growth primarily came from our Asia Pacific and Latin American markets. Arena attendance was 6.7 million fans for the quarter, up $3 million or almost 80% from 2022, largely as a result of growth in Europe and Australia touring. Theater and fan club count was up 45%. And while it's not a large quarter for festivals, we did see festival fan count grow by 50% from our Mexico and Australia and New Zealand expansion.

更深入地觀察我們的粉絲指標，我們的整體增長強勁。本季度體育場的上座率從 2022 年的 80 萬增加到 330 萬，增長了四倍多。這一增長主要來自我們的亞太和拉丁美洲市場。本季度競技場的觀眾人數為 670 萬，比 2022 年增加了 300 萬美元或近 80%，這主要是由於歐洲和澳大利亞巡迴演出的增長。劇院和粉絲俱樂部的數量增加了 45%。雖然這不是節日的主要季度，但我們確實看到墨西哥、澳大利亞和新西蘭的擴張使節日粉絲數量增長了 50%。

Overall, our international markets drove fan count growth, accounting for over 90% of our increase versus 2022. This was due in part to the closure still in effect in Q1 2022. That said, we expect continued strength across all global markets through 2023, along with some seasonal shift towards Q1 activity. Last year, we discussed the various cost headwinds at our operated venues and festivals. Thus far this year cost pressures are declining and our operational cost per fan is down across our indoor buildings, and we are forecasting that cost increases will remain below general inflation levels for our festivals and amphitheaters. As a result of these improved conditions, we expect overall profitability per fan will again increase this year as cost increases are more than mitigated by increasing average revenue per fan pricing and on-site sponsorship.

總體而言，我們的國際市場推動了粉絲數量的增長，占我們與 2022 年相比增長的 90% 以上。這在一定程度上是由於 2022 年第一季度關閉仍然有效。也就是說，我們預計到 2023 年所有全球市場都將保持強勁勢頭，以及向第一季度活動的一些季節性轉變。去年，我們討論了我們運營的場館和節日的各種成本逆風。今年到目前為止，成本壓力正在下降，我們每個風扇的運營成本在我們的室內建築中有所下降，我們預測成本增長將保持在我們的節日和圓形劇場的一般通貨膨脹水平以下。由於這些條件的改善，我們預計今年每名球迷的整體盈利能力將再次增加，因為成本增加已被增加每名球迷定價和現場贊助的平均收入所抵消。

Next, in ticketing, where our numbers reflect growing fan demand for live experiences. In Q1 2023, we sold $72.6 million fee-bearing tickets, up 21 million tickets or 41% compared to 2022. Nearly 2/3 of the growth was driven by concert tickets as North America concert ticket sales increased by 35%. While international concert ticket sales increased even more by 65%. With this increased ticket volume GTV for the quarter was $7.7 billion, up 60% compared to 2022. At peak sales times during the quarter, Ticketmaster sold 15,000 tickets per minute in North America with more than 20 million fee-bearing tickets sold each month globally. And in Q1, over 99.9% of all TM transactions were processed without any issues.

其次，在票務方面，我們的數字反映了粉絲對現場體驗不斷增長的需求。 2023 年第一季度，我們售出了 7260 萬美元的收費門票，與 2022 年相比增加了 2100 萬張，增幅為 41%。近 2/3 的增長來自音樂會門票，北美音樂會門票銷售額增長了 35%。而國際音樂會門票銷售額增長了 65%。隨著門票數量的增加，本季度 GTV 為 77 億美元，比 2022 年增長 60%。在本季度的銷售高峰期，Ticketmaster 在北美每分鐘售出 15,000 張門票，全球每月售出超過 2000 萬張付費門票.在第一季度，超過 99.9% 的 TM 交易都得到了處理，沒有出現任何問題。

While secondary ticketing volume grew at a similar rate, ours continues to be largely a primary ticketing business with secondary ticketing accounting for only a mid-teens percent of our overall GTV. With these growing ticket sales, revenue for the quarter was $678 million and AOI was $271 million, delivering margin of 40%. It's hard to compare these margins to Q1 of last year, given the geographic mix shift and increased cost of ramping our staff back up over the course of last year. But these margins are ahead of our full year 2022 numbers, and we expect margins for the full year to continue being in the high 30s.

雖然二級票務量以類似的速度增長，但我們的主要票務業務仍然主要是二級票務業務，二級票務僅占我們整體 GTV 的百分之十五左右。隨著門票銷售額的增長，本季度的收入為 6.78 億美元，AOI 為 2.71 億美元，利潤率為 40%。考慮到地域組合的變化以及去年增加員工人數的成本增加，很難將這些利潤率與去年第一季度進行比較。但這些利潤率高於我們 2022 年全年的數字，我們預計全年的利潤率將繼續保持在 30 多歲的高位。

On the pricing front, average ticket prices on primary tickets rose by 16% compared to Q1 of 2022, driven by fan demand for the best seats, particularly at concerts. Average secondary ticket prices remain close to double that of a primary ticket, continuing to show the extent to which concerts and other live events remain price below market value. We also saw revenue from nonservice fees grow double digits as we further build ancillary revenue streams, including insurance, upgrades and other upsells.

在定價方面，與 2022 年第一季度相比，主要門票的平均票價上漲了 16%，這是由於粉絲對最佳座位的需求，尤其是在音樂會上。二級門票的平均價格仍然接近一級門票的兩倍，繼續顯示音樂會和其他現場活動的價格仍然低於市場價格的程度。隨著我們進一步建立輔助收入流，包括保險、升級和其他追加銷售，我們還看到來自非服務費的收入增長了兩位數。

Lastly, so far this year, we have signed clients accounting for nearly 8 million net new tickets, up 15% compared to this point last year, positioning us for ongoing growth.

最後，今年到目前為止，我們已經簽約客戶近 800 萬張淨新票，比去年同期增長 15%，為我們的持續增長奠定了基礎。

Finally, in our sponsorship business, top line revenue improved by $54 million or 47% to $170 million in Q1. Our AOI for this high-margin business was $96 million, up 37%. Sponsorship's growth during the quarter was driven by the reopening of international markets that were closed in Q1 of last year. The increase in high-profile artists on sales that attract premium marketing partners and the expansion of our venue network. We had double-digit growth in both on-site and online sponsorship with on-site sponsorship representing most of our AOI growth year-over-year.

最後，在我們的讚助業務中，第一季度的收入增加了 5400 萬美元或 47%，達到 1.7 億美元。我們對這項高利潤業務的 AOI 為 9600 萬美元，增長了 37%。本季度贊助量的增長受到去年第一季度關閉的國際市場重新開放的推動。吸引優質營銷合作夥伴的知名藝術家的銷售增加以及我們場地網絡的擴展。我們在現場和在線贊助方面都有兩位數的增長，其中現場贊助代表了我們 AOI 同比增長的大部分。

From a geographic perspective, our international markets delivered 54% growth in the quarter while North America had 26% growth. Contributing to our sustained growth since last year has been our strategic sponsors to generate over $1 million of revenue in the year. Relative to Q1 of last year, our number of strategic sponsors grew by 15%, while the revenue from those partners rose by over 20%. These marketing partnerships now account for 85% of our total sponsorship revenues.

從地域角度來看，我們的國際市場在本季度實現了 54% 的增長，而北美市場增長了 26%。自去年以來，我們的戰略贊助商為我們的持續增長做出了貢獻，在這一年創造了超過 100 萬美元的收入。與去年第一季度相比，我們的戰略贊助商數量增長了 15%，而來自這些合作夥伴的收入增長了 20% 以上。這些營銷合作夥伴關係現在占我們總贊助收入的 85%。

Sponsorship margins were slightly lower than average during the quarter as we had higher variable expenses due to artist activation costs for A-list talent presales with tickets sold for these key sponsor programs 4x that of last year. As timing plays out, we anticipate that for the full year, variable expenses and margins will be in line with 2022.

本季度的讚助利潤率略低於平均水平，因為我們的可變費用較高，原因是藝術家激活成本導致一線人才預售，這些主要贊助商節目的門票銷量是去年的 4 倍。隨著時間的推移，我們預計全年可變費用和利潤率將與 2022 年持平。

A few other points on 2023. We continue to project that CapEx will be approximately $450 million this year, with 2/3 on revenue-generating projects, including new venue builds and renewals as well as other organic investments to support growth. The remaining 1/3 is on maintenance CapEx as we catch up on deferred 2020 and 2021 maintenance.

關於 2023 年的其他幾點。我們繼續預計今年的資本支出約為 4.5 億美元，其中 2/3 用於創收項目，包括新場館建設和更新以及其他支持增長的有機投資。剩下的 1/3 用於維護資本支出，因為我們要趕上推遲的 2020 年和 2021 年維護。

We ended the quarter with $2.4 billion of available liquidity between free cash and untapped revolver capacity, giving us ample flexibility to continue investing in growth. We're comfortable with our leverage, particularly given the AOI growth ahead with approximately 87% of our debt at a fixed rate with an average cost of debt of roughly 4.7%. In addition, the majority of our debt is long dated and nothing is maturing within the next 18 months.

本季度結束時，我們在自由現金和未開發的循環能力之間擁有 24 億美元的可用流動性，這使我們有足夠的靈活性繼續投資於增長。我們對我們的槓桿率感到滿意，特別是考慮到未來的 AOI 增長，我們約 87% 的債務以固定利率計算，平均債務成本約為 4.7%。此外，我們的大部分債務都是長期債務，沒有任何債務會在未來 18 個月內到期。

The only notable change to our below-the-line guidance from Q1 is on accretion, due largely to assess as impressive growth above previous projections, we estimate that accretion will be approximately 40% higher than 2022, and this should be factored into your EPS estimates. At this point, we don't expect any material FX impact on revenue or AOI for the year.

我們從第一季度開始的線下指導的唯一顯著變化是增長，這主要是由於評估為高於先前預測的令人印象深刻的增長，我們估計增長將比 2022 年高出約 40%，這應該計入您的每股收益估計。在這一點上，我們預計今年的收入或 AOI 不會受到任何實質性的外匯影響。

With that, let me open the call for questions. Operator?

有了這個，讓我開始提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) And the first question comes from the line of David Karnovsky with JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自摩根大通的 David Karnovsky。

Michael, Joe, we've seen a couple of bills introduced in Congress to address ticketing practices and contracts. So wondering, first, how you think some of these items might impact your business, assuming they were fully enforced? And then just based on meetings you've had, do you think these bills largely meet the primary concerns of lawmakers as you've come to understand them?

邁克爾，喬，我們已經看到國會提出了一些法案來解決票務慣例和合同問題。所以想知道，首先，假設這些項目得到全面執行，您認為其中一些項目會如何影響您的業務？然後僅根據您舉行的會議，您認為這些法案在很大程度上滿足了立法者的主要關注點，因為您已經了解了這些法案？

Yes, we're kind of watching what's going on. And we believe that through all of the noise, most people are ending up in the industry and politics at exactly where we are and the principles of what the Fair Act is. So whether it's all in pricing, cleaning up deceptive practices and the secondary, giving artists more tools, those seem to be all the common themes coming out in all of these different bills, which we're fully supportive of, and having our own build Fair Act. We know Senator Cantwell and Cruz introduced theirs. Newman has got a bill coming. Senator Klobuchar and Cornyn, these are all in the same vein and the same thematic around helping the artist control their ticket and get them in the hands of the fans and be away of some of the practices and the secondary and the spec selling deceptive websites, hopefully better protection on bots, and we've always supported all in pricing.

是的，我們正在觀察正在發生的事情。我們相信，在所有的喧囂中，大多數人最終都會按照我們所處的位置和《公平法案》的原則進入行業和政界。因此，無論是定價、清理欺騙性做法還是次要的、為藝術家提供更多工具，這些似乎都是所有這些不同法案中出現的所有共同主題，我們完全支持這些法案，並擁有我們自己的構建公平法案。我們知道參議員 Cantwell 和 Cruz 介紹了他們的。紐曼收到了賬單。參議員 Klobuchar 和 Cornyn，這些都是同一個脈絡和相同的主題，幫助藝術家控制他們的門票並將他們交到粉絲手中，並遠離一些做法以及二級和規格銷售欺騙性網站，希望更好地保護機器人，我們一直支持所有定價。

So this is not LN versus any of these. We are aligned to all of these bills. We think all of these bills, we've said continually for a long time, is better for our business, because it helps us deliver a better on sale and fan experience. So right now it's the Wild West. We're doing our best, but any bills and these natures that start putting some better regulations and controls around the experience is going to help our overall business.

所以這不是閃電網絡與其中任何一個的對比。我們同意所有這些法案。我們認為所有這些賬單，我們已經說了很長時間，對我們的業務更好，因為它幫助我們提供更好的銷售和粉絲體驗。所以現在是狂野西部。我們正在盡力而為，但任何法案和這些性質開始對體驗進行更好的監管和控制，都將有助於我們的整體業務。

Okay. Then there is -- hoping you can expand a bit more on Vibee. Maybe can you frame the opportunities [the best]. Is this something you plan to build primarily for your major festivals and residencies, or is this -- is there a wider opportunity across your promotional footprint? And then just interested what drove the decision to kind of build this out internally versus maybe putting that out to bid for an events partner.

好的。然後是——希望您能在 Vibee 上做更多的擴展。也許你能把機會 [最好的] 框起來。這是你計劃主要為你的主要節日和駐地建造的東西，還是——你的宣傳足跡是否有更廣泛的機會？然後只是感興趣是什麼促使決定在內部構建它而不是將其用於競標活動合作夥伴。

Yes, we look at this segment overall. If you look at what we've been talking about on our Investor Day for the last few years, the premium business is a huge opportunity for us. I think I've said any time, this is an industry that has done a great job of being scaled GA, but not done a great job of doing a premium experience for customers. The sports and new arenas and stadiums are doing a great job on that. But as an industry, Live Nation and the music industry has not done that. And we think there's a great opportunity overall to launch more products and services that can provide a better premium experience for the customer. So this would just be an extension and a continual strategy towards what we call the premium experience.

是的，我們從整體上看這個細分市場。如果你看看過去幾年我們在投資者日談論的內容，就會發現高端業務對我們來說是一個巨大的機會。我想我在任何時候都說過，這是一個在擴展 GA 方面做得很好的行業，但在為客戶提供優質體驗方面做得不好。運動和新的競技場和體育館在這方面做得很好。但作為一個行業，Live Nation 和音樂行業並沒有這樣做。而且我們認為總體上有很大的機會推出更多可以為客戶提供更好的優質體驗的產品和服務。因此，這只是我們所謂的優質體驗的延伸和持續戰略。

We've got a company called VIP Nation. We'll do about 1,000 of those events this year. Those are based around the concert and the tour and going to a sound check or early experience or a meet and greet. So we've been the leader in that space and expanding that Ticketmaster's launch Ticketmaster travel, looking at ways we can put both the ticket and an airline or hotel together and take advantage of that scale, and we've been testing that in the U.K. with great success.

我們有一家名為 VIP Nation 的公司。今年我們將舉辦大約 1,000 場這樣的活動。這些都是基於音樂會和巡迴演出，以及進行試音或早期體驗或見面會。因此，我們一直是該領域的領導者，並擴大了 Ticketmaster 推出的 Ticketmaster 旅行，尋找將機票和航空公司或酒店結合在一起並利用這種規模的方法，我們一直在英國進行測試。取得了巨大的成功。

And Vibee is another product where we looked at Poland and we looked at [no long] location and CID and Clint and others that were doing it. The difference is, we have the scale, but we already have been doing it. We have the expertise. So we looked at our Insomniac team and built up Vibee launched it with the U2 experience sold out or close to $20 million in ticket sales around a high-end premium experience.

而 Vibee 是我們關注波蘭的另一種產品，我們關注 [不久] 位置以及 CID 和 Clint 以及其他正在做的人。不同的是，我們有規模，但我們已經在做。我們擁有專業知識。因此，我們審視了我們的 Insomniac 團隊，並建立了 Vibee 推出它，U2 體驗售罄或圍繞高端優質體驗的門票銷售額接近 2000 萬美元。

So we have the in-house expertise, and this is another product in our ongoing strategy, whether it's clubs, premium memberships, premium clubs, subscriptions, all the ways we're going to continue to look to say how do we turn the GA into a premium experience product.

所以我們擁有內部專業知識，這是我們持續戰略中的另一個產品，無論是俱樂部、高級會員、高級俱樂部、訂閱，我們將繼續尋找所有方式來說明我們如何轉變 GA成為優質體驗產品。

I know there's also the challenge of some of these other companies have is the expensive part about doing this is the right, and we don't have that problem. So when you're chasing the Olympic rights, you're chasing a business for premium, it's a little harder unless you're going in-house. So I'm sure our location does fabulous with their UFC experiences, [similar to that] we don't have to pay rights. These are our rights. So we can do it in-house. We don't have to outsource it and split any of that upside with anyone else but our own businesses.

我知道其他一些公司也面臨挑戰，那就是這樣做的昂貴部分是正確的，而我們沒有這個問題。因此，當你在爭取奧運權利時，你是在追求優質業務，除非你在內部進行，否則會有點困難。所以我敢肯定我們的位置對他們的 UFC 體驗來說非常棒，[類似於]我們不需要支付權利。這些是我們的權利。所以我們可以在內部進行。我們不必將其外包，也不必與我們自己的企業以外的任何其他人分享任何好處。

And the next question comes from the line of Brandon Ross with LightShed Partners.

下一個問題來自 LightShed Partners 的 Brandon Ross。

One on your fundamentals and then a follow-up to David's question on the sales and concerts. Actually, I'll start with that one. I think the Klobuchar bill very specifically attacks your venue exclusivity. Can you kind of just respond to that, Bill? And how important is the venue exclusivity model for you in North America? And then kind of on the fundamentals, last year was obviously a pretty depressed year in terms of concert margins. I know you take the word margins, Joe, but we'll go with it anyway. Should we see a real bounce back in that and continuing type of from 2030 and beyond into future year?

一個關於你的基礎知識，然後是大衛關於銷售和音樂會的問題的後續行動。實際上，我將從那個開始。我認為 Klobuchar 法案非常具體地攻擊了你的場地排他性。比爾，你能對此做出回應嗎？在北美，場館獨占模式對你們有多重要？然後就基本面而言，就演唱會利潤而言，去年顯然是相當低迷的一年。喬，我知道你會使用邊距這個詞，但無論如何我們都會使用它。我們是否應該看到從 2030 年及以後到未來一年的真正反彈和持續類型？

First of all, on the exclusivity point, I think first point I should make is, congratulations on the birth of your daughter. Glad to hear, everybody is doing well.

首先，關於排他性這一點，我想我應該說的第一點是，祝賀你女兒的出生。很高興聽到，每個人都做得很好。

But to the exclusivity point, I always start with, these are the venues rights. And the venues have been figuring out over time, how do they best monetize certain rights they have. What they have determined is the best way to monetize those rights in the U.S. is by auctioning them off for exclusivity. So I think it's, frankly, primarily were there to be (inaudible) is an exclusivity, it's the venues that would be hurt the most because they would lose the ability to fully maximize their rights. We're very confident with the quality of our systems, its ability to handle on sales in a way that no other system can do, has been shown both by the clients that we've been adding as well as you've seen in the press issues that other systems have with very modest on sales.

但就排他性而言，我總是從這些場地權開始。隨著時間的推移，場館一直在思考如何最好地將他們擁有的某些權利貨幣化。他們確定在美國將這些權利貨幣化的最佳方式是拍賣它們以獲得排他性。所以我認為，坦率地說，主要是（聽不清）是一種排他性，這是受到最大傷害的場所，因為他們將失去充分最大化其權利的能力。我們對我們系統的質量非常有信心，它以其他系統無法做到的方式處理銷售的能力，我們已經添加的客戶以及您在其他系統在銷售方面表現不佳的新聞問題。

So we're very confident in our ability to deliver. I think it's uncertain any bill -- in today's Congress, not just this one, but any bill that doesn't have bipartisan support out of the gate as its challenges. But more fundamentally, I think that you'd see the venues respond to that and probably push back because they would be hurt a lot more than we would.

所以我們對我們的交付能力非常有信心。我認為任何法案都是不確定的——在今天的國會中，不僅僅是這個，任何沒有得到兩黨支持的法案都是不確定的。但更根本的是，我認為你會看到場館對此做出反應並可能會反擊，因為他們受到的傷害會比我們大得多。

In terms of the performance of the business, I tried to give a lot of details in there. I think that, as you know, first of all, we look more at the cash profitability of the business, where that is, how that's operating on a profound basis, which, as I said, we expect to continue to grow this year.

在業務表現方面，我試圖在其中提供很多細節。我認為，正如你所知，首先，我們更多地關注業務的現金盈利能力，也就是說，它是如何在深刻的基礎上運作的，正如我所說，我們預計今年將繼續增長。

I also noted, I think, in the concert side, the last year was a bottom tick in terms of our margins. We expect it to be coming back this year. We don't assess over margins because, for instance, this year, we expect to be having a great stadium and arena year, as you could tell by the numbers we already gave for Q1. That's inherently going to be a lower-margin business than one of our applicator customers. We're still going to pursue that business, still a great business, but it impacts technically the margin while generating cash profitability. So I think that we're on an upward trajectory. I think 23% is going to be great. And every very early sign we have for '24 is continued success.

我還注意到，我認為，在音樂會方面，去年是我們利潤率的最低點。我們預計它會在今年回歸。我們不評估利潤率，因為例如，今年，我們預計將有一個偉大的體育場和競技場年，正如我們已經為第一季度提供的數字所表明的那樣。與我們的一位塗藥器客戶相比，這本質上是一項利潤率較低的業務。我們仍將繼續從事這項業務，這仍然是一項偉大的業務，但它在技術上影響利潤率，同時產生現金盈利能力。所以我認為我們正處於上升軌道。我認為 23% 會很棒。我們對 24 世紀的每一個早期跡像都是持續的成功。

Just 1 quick follow-up to that comment. I think there's concern about lapping the supply side for next year. Do you feel good about the supply side coming out of '22 and '23. I know you get asked this question every year as things grow, but do you feel confident with what you're seeing so far? That's all.

只需對該評論進行 1 次快速跟進。我認為人們擔心明年供應方面的問題。您對 22 年和 23 年的供應方面感覺良好嗎？我知道隨著事情的發展，你每年都會被問到這個問題，但你對目前所看到的有信心嗎？就這樣。

Yes. As you know, yes, we lived this in the -- I think the fall was all about the air pocket and would there be enough shows in '23. So hopefully, we put that to bed. We don't think this has anything to do with pent-up demand or COVID rescheduling. That stuff has long been clushed out in '22. This is all about regular business back to business. And I think we're thrilled that we're sitting here looking of a comparable last year but basically had almost 1.5 years combined into a year because of all those rescheduled shows of $20 million. To be sitting here today above and beyond last year's numbers, shows the global strength of the business, and it also shows the global strength of the business from the amphitheater and the stadium to the club to the festival. We're looking at all territories around the world, firing all cylinders.

是的。如你所知，是的，我們生活在這個——我認為秋天是關於氣穴的，23 年會有足夠的表演。所以希望我們能解決這個問題。我們認為這與被壓抑的需求或 COVID 重新安排沒有任何關係。這些東西在 22 年早就被淘汰了。這都是關於正常業務恢復正常的。而且我認為我們很高興我們坐在這裡尋找去年的可比性，但由於所有這些重新安排的 2000 萬美元的節目，基本上將近 1.5 年合併為一年。今天坐在這裡，超過去年的數字，展示了企業的全球實力，也展示了從圓形劇場和體育場到俱樂部再到節日的企業的全球實力。我們正在放眼世界各地，全力以赴。

We're looking at the kind of talent you see on the road right now. This isn't just the rolling stones, right? The question we always have to fight off. 6 of the top 10 artists were younger artists. You look at Lollapalooza Kochaal with Bad Bunny, Karol G, Rosaline, the Blackpink, the BTSs, Billie Eilish. I mean there's just a host of great new talent every year coming up, filling the pipe that we didn't know. Luke Combs was going to be selling stadiums out this year, 2 years ago. We had no idea Bad Bunny was going to be the largest selling artists last year.

我們正在研究您現在在路上看到的那種人才。這不僅僅是滾石，對吧？我們總是要解決這個問題。前 10 位藝術家中有 6 位是年輕藝術家。你看看 Lollapalooza Kochaal 和 Bad Bunny、Karol G、Rosaline、the Blackpink、防彈少年團、Billie Eilish。我的意思是，每年都會湧現出許多偉大的新人才，填補我們不知道的空缺。兩年前，Luke Combs 打算在今年出售體育場館。我們不知道 Bad Bunny 會成為去年銷量最高的藝術家。

So we just continue to see the supply/demand, we think, for the future, is really, really strong. There's more and more artists sitting in the studio right now on TikTok. The greater economy is alive and low and they all want to be the next Bad Bunny. And we said it before, we're also seeing this encouraging new supply strategy where for many years, it was all about a U.S. or U.K.-based artists that filled the charts and fill the stadium. And most other talent was domestic. It might have been big in Canada, it might have been big in Korea, but it didn't travel. This is the real breakout year where the world and the consumer are truly global. And now you can see artists coming from Latin America and Korea and becoming global superstars. That didn't happen for the last 30 years. It was a very top U.S. or U.K. controlled industry.

所以我們只是繼續看到供應/需求，我們認為，對於未來，真的非常強勁。現在在 TikTok 上有越來越多的藝術家坐在工作室裡。更大的經濟體充滿活力和低迷，他們都想成為下一個 Bad Bunny。我們之前說過，我們也看到了這種令人鼓舞的新供應策略，多年來，這都是關於美國或英國的藝術家佔據排行榜和體育場。大多數其他人才都是國內的。它在加拿大可能很大，在韓國可能很大，但它沒有傳播。今年是世界和消費者真正全球化的真正突破年。現在你可以看到來自拉丁美洲和韓國的藝術家成為全球巨星。這在過去的 30 年裡沒有發生過。這是一個非常頂級的美國或英國控制的行業。

So we think that alone gives the next kick to the supply chain for the next 10 years of young talent from -- it will be from India, South Africa, it's going to be everywhere overnight finding their way to TikTok and Spotify and other places to become these global stars that are still in arenas and stadiums out in their markets.

因此，我們認為，僅此一項就可以為未來 10 年的年輕人才提供下一個動力——來自印度、南非，他們將在一夜之間無處不在，找到通往 TikTok 和 Spotify 以及其他地方的途徑成為這些仍在其市場上的競技場和體育館中的全球明星。

And the next question comes from the line of Stephen Laszczyk with Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛集團的 Stephen Laszczyk。

Maybe for Michael, on underlying contract demand, setting aside the stadium and arena tours for the moment. Can you maybe talk about how demand for the average or even smaller amphitheater or club show is trending compared to what we saw for those types of shows last year? I think there's some concern that maybe the top shows are performing well this year, but it's perhaps coming at the expense of the smaller ones. So just love to hear your thoughts on how those -- the smaller and average size shows are performing?

也許對邁克爾來說，根據潛在的合同需求，暫時擱置體育場和競技場之旅。與我們去年看到的此類表演相比，您能否談談對普通或更小的圓形劇場或俱樂部表演的需求趨勢如何？我認為有些人擔心今年頂級節目的表現可能不錯，但這可能是以犧牲較小的節目為代價的。所以只是想听聽你對那些 - 較小和平均規模的節目表現如何的想法？

Yes. Just to give you the feel on that, we don't have a lot of amphitheaters yet just in the first quarter. But if you look at our theaters and clubs, which tend to be pretty strong at this point of the year, they're tracking around 8% ahead in terms of average attendance per show. We're doing that with also increased pricing, lower cost structure on a per fan basis. So those shows are performing very well for us.

是的。只是為了讓您感受一下，我們在第一季度還沒有很多圓形劇場。但如果你看看我們的劇院和俱樂部，它們在每年的這個時候往往非常強勁，他們在每場演出的平均上座率方面領先 8% 左右。我們正在這樣做，同時提高定價，降低每個粉絲的成本結構。所以這些節目對我們來說表現非常好。

And just to jump on Joe there. Unlike the movie theater kind of model, we're not a hit-driven industry, right, where we are a truly scaled business. And you're right, we looked at -- the Beyonce sits on the world that -- are always going to do the great numbers. But when you're sitting here today, looking at even our festivals, the Lollapalooza are the easy ones, but we have over 200 festivals onerous to 1-day festivals in smaller markets to our U.S. and international businesses. And all of it seems to be doing really, really well. So whether it's a middle of a road festival in a smaller market, whether it's a club act at all levels, there seems to be incredible demand and on a global basis. So we haven't seen just the top stuff selling and they're not coming to the other stuff. The demand seems to be uniformed from clubs to stadiums from Pittsburgh to Milan.

只是跳到喬那裡。與電影院那種模式不同，我們不是一個以熱門為導向的行業，對，我們是一個真正規模化的企業。你是對的，我們看到了——碧昂絲坐在世界上——總是會做很多事情。但是，當你今天坐在這裡，甚至看我們的節日時，Lollapalooza 都是簡單的節日，但我們在美國和國際業務的較小市場中有 200 多個繁重的節日到 1 天的節日。所有這一切似乎都做得非常非常好。因此，無論是較小市場中的公路音樂節，還是各個級別的俱樂部表演，在全球範圍內似乎都有令人難以置信的需求。所以我們還沒有看到最暢銷的東西，他們也沒有看到其他東西。從俱樂部到體育館，從匹茲堡到米蘭，需求似乎都統一了。

Great. And then maybe just 1 on the venues business. You called out in the press release, I think you expect to host 3 million incremental fans at new Live Nation venues this year. I'm curious, maybe for Joe, if you look at ambitions on the venue side, how many incremental fans or shows you think you can add to the flywheel over the next couple of years, maybe just given how the venue pipeline stands today?

偉大的。然後可能只有 1 個涉及場館業務。你在新聞稿中大聲疾呼，我認為你預計今年將在新的 Live Nation 場地接待 300 萬粉絲。我很好奇，也許對於喬來說，如果你看看場地方面的雄心壯志，你認為在未來幾年你可以增加多少粉絲或節目，也許只是考慮到場地管道今天的情況？

Yes. I think this year would be typical in what we would hope to add in the low millions per year from our own venues with a mix of some new amphitheaters, new arenas at the larger end, while continuing to build out the club and theater portfolio. So it continues to be a meaningful part of it, more robust. As I said earlier, you can scale the stadiums and arenas faster. But over time, we've learned we can deliver a very accretive return for our shareholders by operating it and being able to count the beer money and the sponsorship money as well.

是的。我認為今年將是典型的一年，我們希望每年從我們自己的場館中增加數百萬美元，其中包括一些新的圓形劇場，較大端的新競技場，同時繼續建立俱樂部和劇院組合。所以它仍然是其中有意義的一部分，更強大。正如我之前所說，您可以更快地擴展體育館和競技場。但隨著時間的推移，我們了解到我們可以通過運營它並能夠計算啤酒資金和讚助資金來為我們的股東帶來非常豐厚的回報。

And I think we laid that out in our November Investor Day, probably on a more macro level. We wanted to remind investors, we've been doing this for a long time. We have a large venue portfolio. We don't see that strategy changing. It's not incrementally different than it's been year after year. We bolt on and continue to look around the world at opportunist markets where there's a great return, and we keep adding a venue club theater an arena, if we can find the right market like Austin, where it's a big return. So we'll continue that strategy over time. And I think we laid out in November, cleaner in terms of how many and what numbers we look to subscribe to over time.

而且我認為我們在 11 月的投資者日可能在更宏觀的層面上提出了這一點。我們想提醒投資者，我們已經這樣做了很長時間。我們擁有龐大的場地組合。我們沒有看到該策略發生變化。與年復一年相比，這並沒有太大的不同。我們堅持並繼續在全球範圍內尋找回報豐厚的機會主義市場，並且我們不斷增加場地俱樂部劇院和競技場，如果我們能找到像奧斯汀這樣的合適市場，那將是一個巨大的回報。所以我們會隨著時間的推移繼續這個策略。而且我認為我們在 11 月進行了佈局，隨著時間的推移，我們希望訂閱的數量和數量更清晰。

And the next question comes from the line of Jason Bazinet with Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Jason Bazinet。

I just had a question about your cash balance. It seems like you guys used to run, I don't know, $0.5 billion or something and it's been 4x that or something over the last year. Do you just think that in the spirit of being cautious that it just makes sense to have more cash on hand? Or do you think there's some flexibility to deploy it in one way or another?

我只是想問問你的現金餘額。好像你們以前跑過，我不知道，5 億美元左右，去年是這個數字的 4 倍左右。你只是認為，本著謹慎的精神，手頭有更多現金才有意義嗎？或者您認為以某種方式部署它是否具有一定的靈活性？

No, I think just to make sure you have the cash numbers right, I think those cash numbers included untapped revolver capacity, right? So from that metric, it's probably not quite that extreme, but we continue to see a very strong set of opportunities to continue growing the business. We just talked about the venue business, which we've been in, but we think on a global basis has a lot of great opportunities to continue to build out the portfolio. And we think even within our existing portfolio, there's a lot of things that we can do to enhance the fan experience as Michael was talking about.

不，我想只是為了確保您的現金數量正確，我認為這些現金數量包括未開發的左輪手槍容量，對嗎？因此，從該指標來看，它可能並不是那麼極端，但我們繼續看到一系列非常強大的機會來繼續發展業務。我們剛剛談到了我們一直從事的場館業務，但我們認為在全球範圍內有很多很好的機會來繼續擴大投資組合。我們認為，即使在我們現有的產品組合中，我們也可以做很多事情來增強邁克爾所說的粉絲體驗。

So at the moment, we're -- maybe being a little conservative coming out of COVID, but looking to continue to grow the business, and we'll continue to reassess it and see what the right options are.

所以目前，我們 - 可能在 COVID 之後有點保守，但希望繼續發展業務，我們將繼續重新評估它，看看正確的選擇是什麼。

Can I just ask 1 follow-up. One of the more interesting things to me, looking at your stock price is, it seems so depressed relative to the fundamentals you guys have been putting up for the last year or so part of the DOJ related part of it fears of sort of COVID pent-up demand. But I was just surprised that you guys didn't sort of take advantage of that seeming disconnect with share repurchases.

我可以問 1 次跟進嗎？對我來說更有趣的事情之一是，看看你們的股價，相對於你們在過去一年左右的時間裡所提出的基本面，它似乎是如此沮喪-向上的需求。但令我感到驚訝的是，你們並沒有利用這種看似與股票回購脫節的情況。

Yes. I think the flip side of -- share repurchases tactically is 1 thing. I think we've also seen a lot of companies out there that embark on share repurchases and the market takes that as a signal that they are out of growth ideas. And I think that we have such a robust set of growth ideas that we wouldn't want that to be misunderstood.

是的。我認為另一方面——戰術上的股票回購是一回事。我認為我們也看到很多公司開始股票回購，市場將此視為他們失去增長理念的信號。而且我認為我們有一套如此強大的增長理念，我們不希望它被誤解。

Secondly, when you invest in growth, you deliver compounded returns over time. You can maybe get an attractive return from a stock if you think there's a dislocation but you lose out on the accretive compounding impact that you can have by investing in these growth opportunities.

其次，當你投資於增長時，你會隨著時間的推移獲得複合回報。如果您認為存在錯位，您也許可以從股票中獲得有吸引力的回報，但您會失去通過投資這些增長機會可以獲得的增值複合影響。

As I said, I think we'll continue to look at all the options as we move forward. But I think in the immediacy of coming out of it, that's been our thought process.

正如我所說，我認為我們會在前進的過程中繼續研究所有選項。但我認為，在立即擺脫困境的過程中，這就是我們的思考過程。

And the next question comes from the line of Stephen Glagola with TD Cowen.

下一個問題來自 Stephen Glagola 與 TD Cowen 的對話。

I had 2 specific questions around the proposed legislation and how that's going to potentially -- could potentially impact your business. So one on prohibition of ticket and exclusivity with venues. Can you just provide like, I guess, your color on the competitive position of Ticketmaster in international markets that you operate on an allocation or nonexclusive model, just to kind of glean insights on how the U.S. could be from that, like how renewals are trending there and new business there, one.

我有兩個關於擬議立法的具體問題，以及這將如何影響您的業務。因此，關於禁止門票和場館排他性的問題。我想，你能不能提供一下你對 Ticketmaster 在國際市場上的競爭地位的看法，你在分配或非排他性模式下運營，只是為了收集關於美國如何從中獲得的見解，比如續訂的趨勢那里和那裡的新業務，一個。

And then two, on this junk fee protection act, I believe there's a provision that the FTC can determine if mandatory ticketing fees are excessive. So I just wanted to know how would [CCAPs] impact your service fee revenue? Would that impact more what the venue collects or what the primary ticketing service collects as well?

其次，關於這項垃圾費用保護法案，我相信有一項規定 FTC 可以確定強制性票務費用是否過高。所以我只想知道 [CCAP] 將如何影響您的服務費收入？這是否會影響場地收集的內容或主要票務服務收集的內容？

I think you need to go through the Bad Bunny's interview. It will help you. The venue drivers, as Joe said, this is the venue business. I know everyone wants to subscribe towards the venue, demand most of the service fee and kind of do the auction for the ticket. So again, we think that the venue that's built in the $1 billion arena or multi-billion dollar stadium in that market, I think he's going to continually pretty strong and vocal about his rights and returns on what companies he can hire exclusively or not to services business. So whether it's Microsoft or CRM or Salesforce or Ticketmaster, I think they're going to look at all their options for their best return for their business. So we look at that from that perspective.

我想你需要接受 Bad Bunny 的採訪。它會幫助你。場地司機，正如喬所說，這是場地業務。我知道每個人都想訂閱場地，要求支付大部分服務費，並為門票進行拍賣。因此，我們再次認為，在那個市場上價值 10 億美元的競技場或價值數十億美元的體育場內建造的場館，我認為他將繼續非常強烈地表達自己的權利，並就他可以獨家僱用或不僱用哪些公司的回報發表意見服務業務。因此，無論是 Microsoft、CRM、Salesforce 還是 Ticketmaster，我認為他們都會考慮所有的選擇，以獲得最佳的業務回報。所以我們從這個角度來看。

We look at Europe just because we've always thrown out really lightly that international as an allocation in the U.S. is here. Just kind of for the trend. International is moving more towards an exclusive model than away from it. As new buildings are being built over there and you're building your arena, which really had been underdeveloped. It was mostly a soccer business or football. But as the new buildings are getting built, they are looking over here and realizing that this is another revenue stream that they should be leveraging. So I look at international probably moving closer to the U.S. model and the U.S. model moving to the international model because I think they're now realizing that they've been under valuing their exclusive ticketing rights for their venues.

我們之所以關注歐洲，是因為我們一直非常輕率地將國際作為美國的配置拋在了這裡。只是為了趨勢。 International 正在朝著一種獨特的模式發展，而不是遠離它。那裡正在建造新建築物，而您正在建造自己的競技場，而這實際上是不發達的。它主要是足球業務或足球。但隨著新建築的建成，他們正在看這裡，並意識到這是他們應該利用的另一個收入來源。因此，我認為國際可能會更接近美國模式，而美國模式可能會轉向國際模式，因為我認為他們現在意識到他們一直在低估他們場館的獨家票務權。

Now we do really well over there because we always will do well in an open market with the best technology. We sell more tickets than the competitor. So if you're an open allocated market and you're going to allocate to us and others, we're going to do really, really well because we're going to be the 1 that probably sells the most tickets for you, so you'll end up allocating more to us. But we don't think that model probably ends up here, more driven by the venue agenda than the ticketing agenda.

現在我們在那裡做得很好，因為我們總是會在開放的市場上用最好的技術做得很好。我們賣的票比競爭對手多。所以如果你是一個開放的分配市場，你要分配給我們和其他人，我們會做得非常非常好，因為我們將成為可能為你賣出最多門票的第一家，所以你最終會分配更多給我們。但我們認為這種模式可能不會在這裡結束，它更多地是由場地議程而不是票務議程驅動的。

And the next question comes from the line of David Katz with Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 David Katz 與 Jefferies 的對話。

You covered a lot. But I was hoping you could just talk about the secondary ticketing market, which seems to be an area of growth for new smaller entities, other approaches, technologies, et cetera. And I know you've talked about in the past how -- what their impact is on the market. What's new with respect to that? What can you do about it to protect yourselves better? And I'd just love an update there, please, if you could.

你涵蓋了很多。但我希望你能談談二級票務市場，這似乎是新的較小實體、其他方法、技術等的增長領域。我知道你過去曾談到過它們對市場的影響。這方面有什麼新內容？你能做些什麼來更好地保護自己？如果可以的話，我希望能更新一下。

I'll jump and then Joe will -- I just want to remind what we said earlier, of all the legislative noise, we've been swirling around for 6 months. The common theme in all of this legislation that you're seeing come forward is around limiting and putting some handcuffs around the scalper and the business. So we do see a lot of this legislation moving forward is going to help the primary ticket, the content holder, do a better job on that front. And it will be harder for the (inaudible) or the bot, deceptive website, spec selling, a lot of practices, drip selling, et cetera. So we do think that overall, this market right now, legislatively, is moving against the secondary business in general, not going to ban it, not going to cap it, but some of the cleanup legislation does help primary hertz secondary. That's a big move that hasn't happened in the last 10, 15 years.

我先跳，然後 Joe 會——我只是想提醒一下我們之前說過的話，關於所有的立法噪音，我們已經徘徊了 6 個月。你所看到的所有這些立法的共同主題是限制黃牛和企業並給他們戴上手銬。所以我們確實看到很多向前推進的立法將幫助主要門票，內容持有者，在這方面做得更好。對於（聽不清）或機器人、欺騙性網站、規格銷售、大量實踐、點滴銷售等，這將更加困難。所以我們確實認為，總的來說，這個市場目前在立法上正在反對一般的二級業務，不會禁止它，也不會限制它，但一些清理立法確實有助於初級赫茲次級。這是過去 10 年、15 年未發生過的重大舉措。

Yes. I think the other piece is you have to remember that secondary for sports is very different than secondary in concert. Secondary and sports is often used as a distribution platform where you sell the season ticket to the scalpers, they disaggregate it, and they're performing a function for the sports teams of guaranteeing them some upfront funding that has value to the teams, the value to the fans. You don't have that in concerts. The concerts, the issue is that, they're using illegal and deceptive practices to get tickets with the sole objective of increasing the price and selling them to the fans.

是的。我認為另一點是你必須記住，體育中學與音樂會中的中學有很大不同。 Secondary and sports 通常用作分銷平台，您可以在其中將季票出售給黃牛，他們將其分解，並且他們正在為運動隊履行一項功能，即保證他們獲得一些對球隊有價值的前期資金，價值給粉絲。你在音樂會上沒有那個。音樂會，問題在於，他們使用非法和欺騙手段來獲得門票，其唯一目的是提高價格並將其出售給歌迷。

So I think what you're seeing is, because the artists don't have the same sort of collective central power that (inaudible) does today, they can set up an NFL ticket exchange. You need to give the power back to the artists. So it's very clear that they can be the decision-maker. And then it becomes the owners of the secondary players to figure out how they're adding value. Like any other business today, you have to survive and adapt and grow because you're adding value to others in your ecosystem. That hasn't been what -- how the scalpers have done it in music over the past several years, and it's finally gotten another point where you're getting the putback now, from the artists, and that's being fully understood by our politicians.

所以我認為你所看到的是，因為藝術家們沒有像今天（聽不清）那樣的集體中央權力，他們可以建立一個 NFL 門票交換。你需要把權力還給藝術家。所以很明顯，他們可以成為決策者。然後它成為次要參與者的所有者，以弄清楚他們如何增加價值。與當今的任何其他企業一樣，您必須生存、適應和發展，因為您正在為生態系統中的其他企業增加價值。過去幾年，黃牛黨是如何在音樂中做到這一點的，這並不是什麼，現在終於到了另一個地步，你現在從藝術家那裡得到了挫折，而我們的政客們已經完全理解了這一點。

And to say next quarter would be understating beating by $100 million.

並且說下個季度將低估 1 億美元。

And the next question comes from the line of Ben Swinburne with Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自 Ben Swinburne 與摩根士丹利的對話。

Two questions. Michael, you also mentioned, I think, in your prepared remarks that the secondary prices are running about 2x primary. Last year -- I think it was last year, sort of that Bruce Springsteen, the moment about market pricing expectations that more artists would embrace that. I was wondering if you could just sort of update us today on sort of the trend in market pricing on primary and sort of pricing back house, front of house the right way. Where you feel the industry is and the business is today?

兩個問題。邁克爾，我想，你在準備好的發言中還提到，二級價格大約是一級價格的 2 倍。去年——我認為是去年，有點像布魯斯·斯普林斯汀，關於市場定價預期的時刻，更多的藝術家會接受這一點。我想知道您今天是否可以向我們介紹一下主要市場定價趨勢以及以正確的方式在後台和前台進行定價的趨勢。您覺得今天的行業和業務在哪裡？

And then secondly, you guys are always thinking pretty far ahead around technology. What are your thoughts on AI as an opportunity for Live Nation? Just broadly, it's obviously a huge topic these days. So would love to hear what you think.

其次，你們總是在技術方面想得很遠。您對 AI 作為 Live Nation 的機會有何看法？從廣義上講，這顯然是當今的一個大話題。所以很想听聽你的想法。

On pricing, I think we've been saying it for the last few years, the great transparency and sunlight of secondary has really helped the artist and the management team look at their pricing models. Historically, it was a fairly static pricing, 3 different maybe price points, same price points all across the country. It matter if there was a Friday in New York or Tuesday in Pittsburgh. So the business has gotten really, really sophisticated with our Pricemaster or different dynamic models that artists can now use. So we see that there's still years away between where the artist markets, the price and what the market is willing to pay.

關於定價，我想我們在過去幾年一直在說，二次元的透明度和陽光確實幫助藝術家和管理團隊審視他們的定價模型。從歷史上看，這是一個相當靜態的定價，可能有 3 個不同的價格點，全國各地的價格點相同。紐約是周五還是匹茲堡是周二，這很重要。因此，我們的 Pricemaster 或藝術家現在可以使用的不同動態模型使業務變得非常非常複雜。所以我們看到，藝術家的市場、價格和市場願意支付的價格之間還有數年的距離。

The artist is 1 of the few products in the world that's worth more than (inaudible), but they do that for their brand and accessibility. And I think that will continue. But I do think we've seen the artists looking at their ticket price and the whole manifest and how do we bring the prices down in the back, bring the prices up in the front, so we can sell out and make sure everyone gets a ticket at an affordable price, but let's not let secondary runway of the front row.

這位藝術家是世界上為數不多的價值超過（聽不清）的產品之一，但他們這樣做是為了他們的品牌和可訪問性。我認為這將繼續下去。但我確實認為我們已經看到藝術家們在看他們的票價和整個清單，我們如何在後面降低價格，在前面提高價格，這樣我們就可以賣光並確保每個人都能得到機票價格實惠，但我們不要讓副跑道排在前排。

So we think that we're still dramatically underpriced versus demand, and you see that every day on the secondary. And we think that's probably going to live for the next 5 to 10 years as the artist moves closer to market, probably never gets to market. But between here and where they feel comfortable, we think there's years of upside that they'll continue to look at.

所以我們認為我們的價格仍然遠遠低於需求，你每天都會在二級市場上看到這一點。我們認為隨著藝術家越來越接近市場，這種情況可能會持續 5 到 10 年，可能永遠不會進入市場。但在他們感到舒服的地方和他們感到舒服的地方之間，我們認為他們會繼續關注多年的上升空間。

AI, Joe, you can talk about the TM.

AI，Joe，你可以談談 TM。

Yes. I think, on AI, just to be clear, I think, it's all upside for us. There's no concern that somehow AI can never replace the live experience. For us, it's a -- I consider it an infrastructure tool for both efficiency and effectiveness. So if you think about using AI on recommendations, much better marketing, much better individual recommendation in terms of making you aware of shows that you might want to go to. Clearly, we're using machine learning now to help inform models on suggesting pricing that we were just talking about. AI is just the same thing to the next level of data input through that machine learning process. It will help us automate a lot of tools, the event creation process takes place at every venue being able to use much better data, machine learning, whatever -- what's going on elsewhere in the PM system will make that more efficient.

是的。我認為，在 AI 方面，我想明確一點，這對我們來說都是有利的。不用擔心 AI 永遠無法以某種方式取代現場體驗。對我們來說，它是——我認為它是一種提高效率和有效性的基礎設施工具。因此，如果你考慮在推薦中使用人工智能，更好的營銷，更好的個人推薦，讓你知道你可能想去看的節目。顯然，我們現在正在使用機器學習來幫助告知模型我們剛才談到的建議定價。人工智能與通過機器學習過程輸入的下一級數據是一回事。它將幫助我們自動化很多工具，事件創建過程發生在每個能夠使用更好的數據、機器學習等等的場所——PM 系統中其他地方發生的事情將使它更有效率。

All the chatbots that you have today, those will go to a whole another level of effectiveness, working with fans and be at a much lower cost than you have today. And then as we're fighting bots using AI to continue in our battles, to make sure we know who's a person or try to know who's a person [present or] not. So it kind of runs throughout all of our infrastructure. It's a lot of places that we're using machine learning today AI is really that to the next level.

你今天擁有的所有聊天機器人，它們將達到另一個層次的效率，與粉絲合作，而且成本比你今天低得多。然後當我們使用 AI 與機器人戰鬥時繼續我們的戰鬥，以確保我們知道誰是人或試圖知道誰是人 [在場或] 不在場。所以它貫穿了我們所有的基礎設施。今天，我們在很多地方都在使用機器學習，人工智能確實達到了一個新的水平。

And the next question comes from the line of John Healy with Northcoast Research.

下一個問題來自 Northcoast Research 的 John Healy。

I just wanted to ask a question on kind of the pace of growth. I mean when we look at deferred revenue, I think it's up almost 30%. You talked about the concert ticket sales at this point, up 20%. Any help you could give us just on if you think that type of pace of growth can be sustained this year. I think the message is clear, it's going to be a strong year, but would just love to get a little color and flavor about kind of the speed of what you could grow this year.

我只是想問一個關於增長速度的問題。我的意思是，當我們查看遞延收入時，我認為它增長了近 30%。你談到此時的音樂會門票銷售額，增長了 20%。如果您認為今年可以維持這種增長速度，您可以給我們任何幫助。我認為信息很明確，這將是強勁的一年，但我只想了解一下今年的增長速度。

Yes. I think that you generally start the year coming out of the gate fastest when you're led by stadiums and arenas. So that -- those are the shows that we've long talked about, put on sale earliest relative to the show date. So you've got great scalability in the stadiums, which are seeing 4x the level of activity. Good scalability in your arena. So that's driving your huge increase in attendance, strong increase in ticket sales at $90 million in your deferred revenue.

是的。我認為，當您以體育場館和競技場為首時，您通常會以最快的速度開始新的一年。所以——那些是我們長期討論的節目，相對於演出日期最早開始銷售。所以你在體育場館中獲得了巨大的可擴展性，活動水平是原來的 4 倍。在您的舞台上具有良好的可擴展性。因此，這推動了您的出勤率大幅增加，門票銷售額強勁增長，遞延收入達到 9000 萬美元。

I think as you get into more of the shows that take place in our buildings, across the festivals, amphitheaters to some extent, clubs, you generally have a lower level of scalability. You still have very solid growth but not the same level as you have with your stadiums and arenas. So I don't think we're ready to try to declare an exact number, but I think we recognize the level you have in Q1 is probably going to be the high point of the year.

我認為，隨著你越來越多地參加在我們的建築物、節日、圓形劇場（某種程度上）、俱樂部中進行的表演，你的可擴展性通常會降低。你仍然有非常穩健的增長，但與你的體育場館和競技場的水平不同。所以我不認為我們準備好嘗試宣布一個確切的數字，但我認為我們認識到你在第一季度的水平可能會成為今年的高點。

And I think -- sorry, I just want to jump on there for 1 second, John. And just what's more important to us is just helping both sides realize what's the future in '24 on. So we went through -- obviously, COVID was down and last year was an extraordinary year. The hurdles '23 and '24 start to look. And we're very optimistic. We look at this year as being a very strong year coming off what people probably thought we couldn't be last year. And we think, '24 into forward, you kind of look at what we historically have delivered. We've been a high single industry growth business and a high single-digit revenue AOI business year after year for many years. And we look at going forward, we think we're back to being a great strong growth business year-over-year off this foundation of business.

我想 — 抱歉，約翰，我只想跳到那裡 1 秒鐘。對我們來說更重要的是幫助雙方了解 24 世紀的未來。所以我們經歷了——顯然，COVID 下降了，去年是不平凡的一年。 23 年和 24 年的障礙開始顯現。我們非常樂觀。我們認為今年是非常強勁的一年，人們可能認為我們去年不可能做到。我們認為，'24 向前，你有點看看我們歷史上已經交付的東西。多年來，我們一直是一個高單一行業增長業務和一個高個位數收入的 AOI 業務。展望未來，我們認為我們將在這一業務基礎上恢復到同比強勁增長的業務。

So we think the industry is back bigger than ever. And we think there's years of industry growth we've shown you when the industry grows, we tend to do a rise with that tide and capture as much as industry growth or we tend to do a couple of points better. So industry has been growing about 8% or 9% a year. We tend to beat it. We look at this as a long-term continual growth story again.

所以我們認為這個行業比以往任何時候都更強大。而且我們認為，當行業增長時，我們已經向您展示了多年的行業增長，我們傾向於順應潮流並抓住行業增長的機會，或者我們傾向於做得更好。因此，該行業每年增長約 8% 或 9%。我們傾向於擊敗它。我們再次將此視為一個長期持續增長的故事。

Great. And then just as a big picture question I wanted to ask. I think you called out APAC and Latin America is fueling some growth at the start of the year. Just as we think about those businesses long term, is it safe to say that as they become a bigger piece of the pie, the margin level of the business should rise. Are those -- I always thought those businesses had potential to be maybe higher margin than the U.S. market, but was just kind of curious how you're thinking about those as they sit today.

偉大的。然後就像我想問的一個大問題。我認為你提到了亞太地區，而拉丁美洲在今年年初推動了一些增長。正如我們從長遠考慮這些業務一樣，可以肯定地說，隨著它們的份額越來越大，業務的利潤率水平應該會上升。是那些——我一直認為這些企業的利潤率可能比美國市場更高，但只是有點好奇你是如何看待它們今天所處的位置的。

Yes. I don't think we start with thinking about it as margin. We think about them as being massive growth potential markets, probably the least developed of our major markets. So having great growth opportunity to continue to drive more fans and more -- obviously, highly profitable fans. As we establish more venues in those markets, I'm sure that you can get some attractive margin [after the venues] operate, but I think more than starting with any margin focus we're looking at just what's the volume of fans and what's the overall concerts, ticketing, sponsorship, profitability, we can drive off that.

是的。我不認為我們首先將其視為保證金。我們認為它們是巨大的增長潛力市場，可能是我們主要市場中最不發達的市場。因此，擁有巨大的增長機會，可以繼續吸引更多的粉絲——顯然，是高利潤的粉絲。隨著我們在這些市場建立更多的場館，我相信你可以獲得一些有吸引力的利潤率 [在場館運營後]，但我認為我們不僅要關注任何利潤率，還要關注粉絲數量和整體音樂會、票務、贊助、盈利能力，我們可以解決。

At this time, we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. Now I would like to turn the floor back over to Michael Rapino for any closing comments.

此時，我們已經到了問答環節的尾聲。現在，我想將發言權轉回給 Michael Rapino，請他發表任何結束評論。

Appreciate everyone. Thank you. We'll talk to you in the summer.

感謝大家。謝謝。我們將在夏天與您交談。

Thank you, everyone. This does conclude today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation, and have a great day.

謝謝大家。今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。