Life Time Group Holdings Inc (LTH) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Life Time Group Holdings Q4 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Life Time Group Holdings 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to introduce you to your host Connor Wienberg, VP of Investor Relations and Capital Markets. Thank you, Connor. You may begin.

現在我很高興向您介紹主持人、投資者關係和資本市場副總裁康納溫伯格 (Connor Wienberg)。謝謝你，康納。你可以開始了。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us for the fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 Life Time Group Holdings earnings conference call. With me today are Bahram Akradi, Founder, Chairman and CEO; and Erik Weaver, Executive Vice President and CFO.

早安，感謝您參加 Life Time Group Holdings 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。今天與我在一起的有創始人、董事長兼首席執行官巴赫拉姆·阿克迪 (Bahram Akradi)；以及執行副總裁兼首席財務官埃里克·韋弗 (Erik Weaver)。

During the call, we will make forward-looking statements, which involve a number of risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from those forward-looking statements made today. There is a comprehensive discussion of risk factors in the company's SEC filings, which you are encouraged to review. The company will also discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures, including adjusted net income, adjusted EBITDA, adjusted diluted EPS, net debt to adjusted EBITDA, or what we refer to as net debt leverage ratio, and free cash flow.

在電話會議期間，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，其中涉及許多風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與今天的前瞻性陳述有重大差異。該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中對風險因素進行了全面的討論，建議你查看。該公司還將討論某些非 GAAP 財務指標，包括調整後的淨收入、調整後的 EBITDA、調整後的稀釋每股收益、淨債務與調整後的 EBITDA 比率（即我們所說的淨債務槓桿率）以及自由現金流。

This information, along with the reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included, when applicable, in the company's earnings release issued this morning, our 8-K filed with the SEC, and on the Investor Relations section of our website.

此資訊以及與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對帳（如適用）均包含在公司今天早上發布的收益報告、我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的 8-K 文件中以及我們網站的投資者關係部分中。

With that, I will turn the call over to Erik.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給艾瑞克。

Thank you, Connor, and good morning, everyone. As always, we appreciate you joining us for our business and financial update.

謝謝你，康納，大家早安。像往常一樣，我們感謝您加入我們的業務和財務更新。

2024 was an exceptional year for our company. We achieved many significant milestones and exceeded our expectations with our strong financial results.

2024年對我們公司來說是個不同尋常的一年。我們實現了許多重要的里程碑，強勁的財務表現超出了我們的預期。

Starting with our fourth-quarter results. Total revenue increased 18.7% to $663.3 million, driven by an 18% increase in our membership dues and enrollment fees and a 19.4% increase in our in-center revenue. Our comparable center revenue of 13.5% was the largest of the year. This was a result of both membership dues and in-center revenue having the largest comparable center revenue growth of the year in Q4, which is a direct result of the significant engagement we are seeing from our members.

從我們的第四季業績開始。總收入成長 18.7%，達到 6.633 億美元，其中會員費和入學費成長 18%，中心收入成長 19.4%。我們的可比中心收入達到 13.5%，是今年最高的。這是因為會員費和中心收入在第四季度都實現了今年最大的可比中心收入增幅，而這直接得益於我們的會員的積極參與。

Center memberships increased 6.4% compared to last year to end the quarter at more than 812,000 memberships. When combined with our digital on-hold memberships, total memberships ended the quarter at approximately 866,000. Average monthly dues were $201, up approximately 10% from the fourth quarter of last year, and average revenue per center membership was $796, up 12% from the prior year quarter. Net income was $37.2 million, up 57%, and adjusted net income was $60.3 million, up 59% from the prior year quarter. Adjusted EBITDA was $177 million, up 28.5% and our adjusted EBITDA margin of 26.7% increased 210 basis points versus the fourth quarter 2023 as we achieved leverage in both our center operations and general, administrative and marketing expense from increased revenue.

與去年同期相比，中心會員人數增加了 6.4%，本季末會員人數已超過 81.2 萬人。與我們的數位保留會員資格相結合，本季末的總會員人數約為 866,000。平均月費為 201 美元，比去年第四季成長約 10%，每個中心會員的平均收入為 796 美元，比去年同期成長 12%。淨收入為 3,720 萬美元，年增 57%，調整後淨收入為 6,030 萬美元，年增 59%。調整後的 EBITDA 為 1.77 億美元，成長 28.5%，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 26.7%，較 2023 年第四季度增加了 210 個基點，因為我們透過增加的收入在中心運營以及一般、行政和行銷費用方面都實現了槓桿作用。

Net cash provided by operating activities increased approximately 24% to $163 million as compared to the fourth quarter of 2023. For the third consecutive quarter, we achieved positive free cash flow. Free cash flow was approximately $27 million, and we had no sale-leaseback proceeds in the fourth quarter. For the full year, total revenue increased 18.2% to $2.621 billion, (sic - see press release, "$2.621 million") driven by a 19.1% increase in membership dues and enrollment fees and a 16% increase in in-center revenue. Average revenue percent of membership was $3,160, up 12.5% from the prior year. Net income increased 105% to $156.2 million and adjusted net income increased 55% to $200.5 million. Adjusted diluted earnings per share was $0.95 compared to $0.64 per share for the prior year.

與 2023 年第四季相比，經營活動提供的淨現金增加約 24% 至 1.63 億美元。我們連續第三個季度實現了正的自由現金流。自由現金流約 2,700 萬美元，第四季我們沒有售後回租收益。全年總收入成長 18.2% 至 26.21 億美元（原文如此 - 參見新聞稿「262.1 萬美元」），其中會員費和入會費增長 19.1% 以及中心收入增長 16%。會員平均收入百分比為 3,160 美元，比上年增長 12.5%。淨收入成長 105% 至 1.562 億美元，調整後淨收入成長 55% 至 2.005 億美元。調整後每股攤薄收益為 0.95 美元，去年同期為每股 0.64 美元。

In addition to an increase in income from operations in 2025, we expect net income to benefit from reduced cash interest expense due to our reduced debt levels and the refinancing we completed in the fourth quarter. Based on recent SOFR rates, we expect net interest expense of $90 million to $94 million. Adjusted EBITDA increased 26.1% to $676.8 million and our adjusted EBITDA margin of 25.8% increased 160 basis points compared to the full year 2023. As a result of our intentional and strategic repositioning of the company in prior years, which included the rewiring of our operations, we have continued to expand our operating margins and now expect to achieve adjusted EBITDA margins in excess of 26%.

除了 2025 年營業收入的增加之外，我們預計淨收入還將受益於現金利息支出的減少，這是由於我們的債務水平降低以及我們在第四季度完成的再融資。根據最近的 SOFR 利率，我們預計淨利息支出為 9,000 萬至 9,400 萬美元。調整後 EBITDA 成長 26.1% 至 6.768 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 25.8%，與 2023 年全年相比增加了 160 個基點。由於我們前幾年對公司進行了有意和策略性的重新定位，包括重新調整我們的業務，我們的營業利潤率不斷擴大，現在預計調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率將超過 26%。

With that, I will now pass the call over to Bahram.

說完這些，我現在將電話轉給巴赫拉姆 (Bahram)。

Thank you, Erik. Based on the strength of what we have seen so far this year, we raised both our revenue and adjusted EBITDA guidance for 2025 from what we had pre-announced in mid-January. Our revenue guidance is now $2,925 million to $2,975 million and adjusted EBITDA guidance is now $780 million to $800 million.

謝謝你，埃里克。根據今年迄今的表現，我們提高了 2025 年的收入和調整後 EBITDA 指引，這些指引與 1 月中旬預先宣布的指引一致。我們目前的營收預期為 29.25 億美元至 29.75 億美元，調整後的 EBITDA 預期為 7.8 億美元至 8 億美元。

Our core business continues to deliver impressive results. The main driver of our success has been delivering on our incredible member experience. This has resulted in the best retention in our 32-year history, which is one of the most important key performance indicators. We continue to fine-tune our operations to improve the desirability of our places, programs and performers. And therefore, we expect to exceed the 2024 retention levels in 2025.

我們的核心業務持續取得令人矚目的成績。我們成功的主要動力是提供令人難以置信的會員體驗。這使得我們取得了32年歷史上最好的保留率，這是最重要的關鍵績效指標之一。我們將繼續優化我們的運營，以提高我們的場地、節目和表演者的吸引力。因此，我們預計 2025 年的保留水準將超過 2024 年的保留水準。

In connection with our record membership retention, we're seeing record levels of revenue per membership driven both from dues and in-center businesses. Additionally, our new club pipeline is as robust as it's ever been. We expect to open 10 to 12 clubs in 2025, with the ability to extend the number of openings toward '26 and '27, given the depth of our pipeline. We intend to maintain our current debt levels of approximately $1.5 billion while we continue to grow revenue and EBITDA. This implies a net debt leverage ratio of less than 2 times by the end of this year. As a reminder, that number was just 2.28 times at the end of 2024, as you saw in our press release.

與我們創紀錄的會員保留率相關，我們看到來自會費和中心業務的每位會員的收入都達到了創紀錄的水平。此外，我們的新俱樂部管道一如既往地強大。我們預計在 2025 年開設 10 至 12 傢俱樂部，考慮到我們現有的儲備資源，我們有能力將開設俱樂部的數量延長至 2026 年和 2027 年。我們打算將目前約 15 億美元的債務水平維持在現有水平，同時繼續增加收入和 EBITDA。這意味著到今年年底淨債務槓桿率將低於2倍。提醒一下，正如您在我們的新聞稿中看到的那樣，到 2024 年底，這一數字僅為 2.28 倍。

We plan to use our operating cash flow and any proceeds from sale leasebacks to accelerate the number of new club openings in the future, taking advantage of our robust pipeline. Our Life Time brand is providing significant additional asset-light growth opportunities. First, LT Digital, our free digital subscription, which we launched last February, now has more than 1.7 million subscribers, and it's growing more than 100,000 subscribers per month, naturally and without any marketing effort. LTH nutritional supplements are seeing strong growth month after month. And MIORA, our health optimization and longevity offering, is progressing forward as planned, and we are about to open our second location next week.

我們計劃利用我們的營運現金流和售後回租所得來加速未來新俱樂部的開幕數量，並充分利用我們強大的管道。我們的 Life Time 品牌正在提供重要額外的輕資產成長機會。首先，我們去年二月推出的免費數位訂閱服務 LT Digital，現在擁有超過 170 萬訂閱用戶，每月新增訂閱用戶超過 10 萬，這自然而然，無需任何行銷努力。LTH 營養補充品逐月呈現強勁成長。我們的健康優化和長壽服務 MIORA 正在按計劃推進，我們即將在下週開設第二家門市。

With that, we're ready to answer your questions.

現在我們已經準備好回答您的問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Brian Nagel, Oppenheimer.

（操作員指示） Brian Nagel，奧本海默。

Congratulations on a fantastic quarter, fantastic year. So I have a couple of questions. First, I guess this is just more of a maybe a growth question, Bahram, your outlook here, you're talking about 10 to 12 new centers for '25. So with the balance sheet where it is now, you've done a great job of getting the debt ratios down to, I mean, frankly, below what you initially even targeted. But I guess, how are you thinking about the funding of that expansion? And particularly, I guess, the question I'm asking is with regard to the sale leaseback market, would you've been more active in lately?

恭喜您度過了一個出色的季度和出色的一年。我有幾個問題。首先，我想這可能更像是一個成長問題，巴赫拉姆，你在這裡的觀點是，你談論的是25年新建10到12個中心。因此，就目前的資產負債表而言，您已經做得很好了，將債務比率降至，坦白說，低於您最初的目標。但我想，您是如何考慮該擴張計畫的資金來源的？我想問的問題是，關於售後回租市場，您最近是否會更活躍？

Yeah. Thank you so much, Brian. We just -- I just had a conversation with the CEO of largest partner of ours, on sale-leaseback, a couple of days ago. We have agreements for them to step in, they want about $240 million to $250 million worth of sale leaseback from us for this year. And this is just phenomenal partners. We have incredible trust relationship. And so that is just one of the incoming demand for our buildings, as I've mentioned before, Brian, is -- there aren't that many opportunities to lease large square footage from singular tenant net lease where you have had a tenant who has basically continually paid rents even through the COVID period. So we have significant amount of demand for our real estate.

是的。非常感謝，布萊恩。幾天前，我剛剛與我們最大的合作夥伴的執行長就售後回租問題進行了交談。我們與他們達成了協議，他們希望今年向我們提供價值約 2.4 億至 2.5 億美元的售後回租服務。這真是出色的合作夥伴。我們之間存在著令人難以置信的信任關係。因此，這只是我們建築的新需求之一，正如我之前提到的，布萊恩，從單一租戶淨租賃中租賃大面積建築的機會並不多，在這種情況下，即使在 COVID 期間，租戶基本上一直在支付租金。因此，我們的房地產需求量很大。

I think the $250 million to $300 million, $350 million sales leaseback, it's sort of easily in the expectation for this year on the low end. We expect to sort of spread that out so that we take the money, the net proceeds from the sale leaseback and basically apply it to additional growth. The pipeline, as I mentioned in my remarks, it has never been as strong as it is today and we literally have opportunities coming everywhere, urban, suburban, semi-urban buildings with apartments, buildings with office, they need Life Time traffic and brand to sort of improve the returns on those. We have just the traditional suburban sites in incredibly robust demographics. So we just basically are balancing.

我認為 2.5 億美元到 3 億美元，3.5 億美元的銷售回租，很容易就在今年的低端預期中。我們希望將這一部分分散開來，這樣我們就可以將售後回租的淨收益用於額外的增長。正如我在演講中提到的那樣，管道從未像今天這樣強大，我們確實有機會無處不在，城市、郊區、半城市地區的公寓大樓、辦公大樓，他們需要終身流量和品牌來提高這些方面的回報。我們擁有人口結構極為強勁的傳統郊區站點。所以我們基本上只是在保持平衡。

As I mentioned, our expectation is to -- we have about $1.5 billion of debt as the -- we expect sometime this year to actually receive our BB rating for at least one more agencies. We have positive conversations with them. With that and where the sulfur will be our expectation is the cost of that debt is roughly 6%, so really, really great debt. With having $3.5 billion worth of owned market value real estate, $1.5 billion debt is virtually could apply that way or less than 2 times debt to EBITDA. So we don't need to reduce that debt at this point with the potential we have in our pipeline, we would like to just use all the free cash flow we generate after interest payments and modernization, and maintenance capital, take all of that plus any proceeds from sale leasebacks and just continue to grow the business.

正如我所提到的，我們的預期是——我們有大約 15 億美元的債務——我們預計今年某個時候我們將至少再獲得一家機構的 BB 評級。我們與他們進行了積極的對話。考慮到這一點以及硫磺的含量，我們預計這筆債務的成本約為 6%，因此這筆債務真的非常大。由於擁有價值 35 億美元的自有市值房地產，因此 15 億美元的債務實際上可以以此方式應用，或低於 EBITDA 債務的 2 倍。因此，考慮到我們目前所擁有的潛力，我們目前不需要減少債務，我們只想利用支付利息、現代化和維護資本後產生的所有自由現金流，加上售後回租的收益，繼續發展業務。

We are having amazing results on our same-store, we have amazing results on all of our new clubs. So we're really, really happy with the way the business is functioning, and it's just really pacing correctly and managing the growth of the business correctly, but we have plenty of opportunity there.

我們同店的業績令人驚嘆，我們所有新俱樂部的業績都令人驚嘆。因此，我們對業務的運作方式非常非常滿意，而且它確實在正確地步調和正確地管理業務成長，但我們在這方面還有很多機會。

That's very helpful, Bahram. And before I jump to my follow-up question, just quickly on that, so -- and I know this is a big focus for investors broadly, but I mean how are you thinking about the -- on the sale leaseback, other markets clearly wide open and there's lot of demand? How do you think about the rates?

這非常有幫助，巴赫拉姆。在我進入後續問題之前，我先快速回答一下這個問題，我知道這是廣大投資者關注的重點，但我的意思是，您如何看待售後回租，其他市場顯然很開放，而且需求很大？您覺得這些費率怎麼樣？

Rates are -- it's actually is crazy to me. Since we went private, the blended average of everything we've done is somewhere like 6.5% to 6.7%, 6.8%. And I expect everything will happen in that same like 6.5% to 7%, I won't touch 7%, but in that same range. So it's -- and frankly, if it was 25 basis higher or lower, it virtually has zero impact on the total economics of the business. The EBITDA margin for the business right now is so strong relative to our banner year of 2019 is 600 basis points better. So you're paying a quarter more on rent or something in the 25 basis points more on rent, it just is irrelevant. So we really aren't hindered by that, we can just take these sale leasebacks with the right partners. So long-term right partners. And just pace them in as we want to bring that cash.

利率——對我來說確實很瘋狂。自從我們私有化以來，我們所做的所有工作的綜合平均值大約在 6.5% 到 6.7%、6.8% 之間。我預計一切都將發生在 6.5% 到 7% 之間，我不會觸及 7%，但在同一範圍內。所以 — — 坦白說，如果它高出或低了 25 個基點，它對企業的整體經濟實際上沒有任何影響。目前，該業務的 EBITDA 利潤率與我們豐收的 2019 年相比非常強勁，高出了 600 個基點。因此，您多支付四分之一的租金或多支付 25 個基點的租金，這是無關緊要的。所以我們其實並沒有受到這些阻礙，我們可以和合適的合作夥伴進行這些售後回租。因此，我們需要長期的合作夥伴。因為我們想要帶現金，所以就按照他們的節奏來。

And there's no reason to do them too fast. If we can deploy that capital back into the market, there's really no value in doing it. But there is zero concern from my side that we would want to do a sell this back, then there wouldn't be somebody taking it. In the cap rate range that is acceptable to us.

而且沒有理由做得太快。如果我們可以將這些資本重新投入市場，那麼這樣做其實就沒有任何價值。但我一點也不擔心我們會把它賣回去，然後就沒有人拿走它了。在我們可以接受的資本化率範圍內。

That's very, very helpful. And so my second question, maybe more for Erik, but you look at that so you preannounced positively Q4 results in maybe basically in mid-January. So here we are a month later, a little bit more than a month later, and you're lifting guidance again or your lifting guidance, I guess, for '25 on the top line, but particularly on the EBITDA line, I mean, so I guess the question is, as you look at the business, is there anything in particular that changed over the last several weeks?

這非常非常有幫助。所以我的第二個問題，可能更多是針對埃里克的，但是您看一下，所以您預先宣布了積極的第四季度業績，可能基本上是在 1 月中旬。所以，一個月後，或者說一個多月後，您又上調了預期，或者上調了 25 年的營收預期，尤其是 EBITDA 預期，我的意思是，所以我想問題是，當您審視業務時，過去幾周是否發生了一些特別的變化？

Yeah. I mean, actually, as we started '25, we saw a couple of things. We saw very strong membership dues. And that's really a result of continued strong average dues retention has been incredibly strong. So for that to hit the top line has been better than our expectations. And we've also been very good on cost control.

是的。我的意思是，實際上，當我們開始25年時，我們看到了一些事情。我們看到會員費非常高。這實際上是持續強勁的平均會費保留率的結果。因此，達到營業額已經好於我們的預期。而且我們的成本控制也做得很好。

Megan Clapp, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的梅根·克拉普 (Megan Clapp)。

Hi, good morning. Can you guys hear me?

嗨，早安。你們聽得到我的聲音嗎？

We've got you.

我們抓到你了。

Awesome. Okay. First question is just a little bit of a clarification to some of the comments, Bahram, you made on leverage expectations and sale-leaseback. So I think in the release, the guide you called out, maintain leverage at or below 2.25 times. Bahram, I think you said in your prepared remarks, it would imply less than 2 times by the end of the year. So I just want to be clear on what exactly is your expectation as it relates to where leverage should end the year? Presumably, the level you're growing EBITDA at, unless there's some other cash flow dynamics going on, leverage should come down to end the year, but just want to make sure that I'm totally clear on that. And is sale-leaseback something you're embedding in your cash flow expectations today or that would be incremental?

驚人的。好的。第一個問題只是想稍微澄清一下 Bahram 您對槓桿預期和售後回租的一些評論。因此我認為，在發布中，您所指出的指導方針是將槓桿率維持在 2.25 倍或以下。巴赫拉姆，我想你在準備好的發言中說過，這意味著到今年年底這一數字將少於 2 倍。所以，我只是想明確一下，對於今年年底槓桿率應該達到什麼水平，您的預期到底是什麼？據推測，除非存在其他現金流動態，否則 EBITDA 的成長水平應該會在年底前下降，但我只是想確保我完全清楚這一點。售後回租是否是您目前現金流量預期中嵌入的內容，還是會以增量形式出現？

Great question. So what I said was that our expectation is to make sure we keep our debt-to-EBITDA under 2.25 times. That's the goal, is to stay under 2.5 times. That's the number that we understand we need to be to make sure we stay in that BB zone from the agencies. And that's a number I believe would be perfectly fine for the company to maintain anything under 2.25 times. In my remarks, I merely suggested that based on where we expect the EBITDA to finish end of the year, and if you maintain roughly that $1.5 million -- $1.5 billion of debt, you're going to end up naturally just under 2 times debt to EBITDA.

好問題。所以我說的是，我們的期望是確保我們的債務與 EBITDA 比率保持在 2.25 倍以下。這就是目標，保持在 2.5 倍以下。我們知道，我們需要這個數字來確保我們處於機構的 BB 區域內。我認為，公司將這個數字維持在 2.25 倍以下是完全沒問題的。在我的評論中，我只是建議，根據我們預計的 EBITDA 年底水平，如果你維持大約 150 萬美元到 15 億美元的債務，那麼你的債務與 EBITDA 之比自然會略低於 2 倍。

So those are -- the goal is to stay under 2.25 times. And the forecast is going to be -- if we keep the $1.5 billion of debt, then we're going to -- we should be under 2 times debt to EBITDA. That's the first part of your question for clarity. Is that helpful, Megan?

所以目標是維持在 2.25 倍以下。預測是 - 如果我們保留 15 億美元的債務，那麼我們的債務與 EBITDA 比率應該低於 2 倍。為了澄清起見，這是您問題的第一部分。這有幫助嗎，梅根？

Yes, crystal clear. Thank you.

是的，非常清晰。謝謝。

So now as far as the sale-leasebacks, so as we've run through the math, it looks like it's roughly around $500 million of cash flow generated, give or take $50 million or whatever. So you have that generated from the core business after debt and modernization and maintenance CapEx. So that $500 million, plus any proceeds from sale-leasebacks, allows us to just fund the continued growth of the build-out.

現在就售後回租而言，經過我們的計算，看起來它產生的現金流大約是 5 億美元，上下浮動約 5,000 萬美元。因此，您可以獲得核心業務扣除債務、現代化和維護資本支出後產生的收入。因此，這 5 億美元加上售後回租的收益足以讓我們支持持續的建設成長。

When we lease things that are upfront, the capital spend in those is not more than $25 million on average that we've talked about before. When we build from scratch, ground up, those will cost more than that $25 million. But when you're recycling the sale-leaseback dollars, you could basically, say for simplicity, take that $25 million to $30 million per opening and just apply that to however many. And then we just -- if they cost more than that on a ground-up, you can expect that piece of it that is more than $25 million, $30 million is coming from recycled capital from sale-leaseback.

當我們租賃預付的東西時，其中的資本支出平均不超過我們之前談到的 2,500 萬美元。如果我們從頭開始建造，其成本將超過 2500 萬美元。但是，當你回收售後回租資金時，為了簡單起見，你基本上可以假設每個開業地點拿出 2500 萬美元到 3000 萬美元，並將其應用於任意數量的開業地點。然後我們只是 - 如果它們的初始成本高於這個數字，那麼你可以預期其中超過 2500 萬美元到 3000 萬美元的部分將來自售後回租的回收資本。

I am trying to make this as simple as possible for everyone to follow is how we think about staying cash -- at this point, we don't need to be significantly free cash flow positive after growth -- after all the growth because the debt levels, as we mentioned, is in the right place. So now we want to have sort of a cash flow positive to neutrality, more or less in that range, for the debt standpoint, and then take all the rest of the opportunity and apply it to growth.

我試圖讓每個人都盡可能簡單地理解我們如何考慮保持現金流——在這一點上，我們不需要在增長後獲得顯著的自由現金流——畢竟增長之後，因為正如我們所提到的，債務水平處於正確的位置。因此，現在我們希望從債務的角度來看，現金流能夠處於正向到中性的水平，或多或少在這個範圍內，然後抓住所有剩餘的機會並將其應用於成長。

Maybe if I could just follow up on EBITDA margin. So 26.7%, I think, for the year, and you're guiding to that again in '25. So it was a couple of quarters ago, I think, where you were really sticking to 26%. And I think at the time, you commented on maybe not wanting to squeeze more and start hurting the member experience. So obviously, the business has performed well, and it's nice to see the leverage you've gotten as that's occurred. But how are you thinking about margins today, close to 27%? Does that comment still apply if you're not going to try and squeeze the business for more? Are there areas where you'd look to invest a bit more? Just how should we think about kind of how you're thinking about the EBITDA margin outlook broadly going forward?

也許我可以跟進 EBITDA 利潤率。所以我認為，今年的成長目標是 26.7%，而你預計 25 年的成長目標將再次達到這個水準。所以我認為，幾個季度前，你確實堅持 26%。我認為當時您評論說也許您不想擠壓更多並開始損害會員體驗。顯然，業務表現良好，並且很高興看到您在業務發展過程中獲得的槓桿作用。但是您如何看待現在接近 27% 的利潤率呢？如果您不打算嘗試從業務中榨取更多利潤，那則評論還適用嗎？您是否希望在哪些領域加大投資？我們該如何看待您對未來 EBITDA 利潤率前景的看法？

Once again, another great clarification question. I always said to you guys, here's what we would like you guys to sort of put in your models. I never said it can't be more. I did tell you guys, it can be more, just don't model more because we want to have the flexibility to invest in the quality of our offering. As the company is doing bigger dues, bigger revenues, bigger in-center, we are not compromising at all anything that is customer experience to generate more margins. The margins are beautiful. They're fantastic. I think that I would be happy to have any business to generate north of 25% EBITDA margin.

再一次，又一個很重要的澄清問題。我總是對你們說，這就是我們希望你們在模型中加入的內容。我從來沒說過不能再多了。我確實告訴過你們，它可以更多，只是不要建模更多，因為我們希望能夠靈活地投資於我們產品的品質。隨著公司業務量不斷增大，收入不斷增加，中心規模不斷擴大，我們不會為了獲得更多利潤而犧牲任何客戶體驗。邊緣很漂亮。他們太棒了。我認為，如果任何企業的 EBITDA 利潤率能超過 25%，我都會非常高興。

But it doesn't mean we can't do more. I just don't want to keep being pushed by The Street to have to do more and more and more because eventually, you're going to hurt your business, and we're not going to allow that to happen. So for right now, what we are telling you is the margin for 2025, I think it's a very healthy EBITDA margin. It possibly could be slightly more as time goes on. But we just want to make sure we keep everybody's expectations in check.

但這並不意味著我們不能做得更多。我只是不想繼續被華爾街逼著做越來越多的事情，因為最終你會損害你的生意，我們不會允許這種情況發生。所以就目前而言，我們告訴您的是 2025 年的利潤率，我認為這是一個非常健康的 EBITDA 利潤率。隨著時間的推移，這個數字可能會稍微多一點。但我們只是想確保滿足每個人的期望。

Understood. Thank you.

明白了。謝謝。

Alex Perry, Bank of America.

美國銀行的亞歷克斯·佩里。

Hi, thanks for taking my questions here, and congrats on a really strong quarter. I guess just given some of the commentary in the press release, is it fair to say that the comp center sales are sort of running above the 7% to 8% for the year in the first quarter, sort of given you've lifted your guide versus the pre-announcement just over a month ago? And then I think you raised your sort of implied EBITDA guide by 60 basis points versus your pre-announcement. What is the key driver there? I think the EBITDA guide sort of came up a bit more than the revenue guide. Can you just talk about how you're thinking about that? Thanks.

嗨，感謝您在這裡回答我的問題，並祝賀您本季度取得了非常強勁的業績。我想，鑑於新聞稿中的部分評論，是否可以公平地說，第一季綜合中心銷售額將略高於今年 7% 至 8% 的增長，考慮到你們已經上調了指導價格，而與一個多月前的預公告相比？然後我認為你將隱含的 EBITDA 指引較預先公告的指引提高了 60 個基點。其中的關鍵驅動因素是什麼？我認為 EBITDA 指南比收入指南略高一些。你能談談你對此的看法嗎？謝謝。

Yeah, I think you've got it right there, Alex. The 7% to 8% is kind of the full year there. And we're still -- we're lapping some of the strategic things that we did. So the expectation is that that would be a little bit higher in Q1. So that slope, you're thinking about that exactly right. So we would expect Q2, Q3, Q4.

是的，我認為你說得對，亞歷克斯。7% 到 8% 是全年的水平。我們仍在推進已完成的一些策略性工作。因此預計第一季的這一數字會略高一些。所以那個斜率，你想的完全正確。因此我們預期 Q2、Q3、Q4。

Again, in terms of how we started the year, just what we're seeing in the strong flow-through from the revenue, we're seeing strong average dues, we're seeing strong retention in both January and February. So that's really part of that flow-through directly attributable to the increased margin.

再次，就我們今年開局的情況而言，我們看到收入的強勁增長，看到平均會費的強勁增長，看到一月和二月的留存率強勁增長。所以這其實是直接歸因於利潤率增加的部分流通。

And then my follow-up question is maybe to piggyback on Megan's question from earlier. Do you -- in managing the club experience, do you have a desired club capacity number for your large-format clubs? And then how do you think about sort of the pricing opportunity as you start to approach that? What you see as the desired club capacity? It looks like you're starting to implement enrollment fees in a lot of your clubs. Is there a lot of continued embedded pricing opportunity as we look into the business this year?

然後我的後續問題可能是為了延續梅根之前提出的問題。在管理俱樂部體驗時，您是否對大型俱樂部的容量數量有期望？當您開始解決這個問題時，您如何看待定價機會？您期望的俱樂部容量是多少？看起來你們已經開始在許多俱樂部實行入會費制度了。當我們研究今年的業務時，是否還有很多持續嵌入的定價機會？

Alex, as always, you have great questions, great insight. So let me help out to everyone with your question here. Really, when you think about the club, there is a certain amount of visits you can generate within a particular club, not necessarily just based on square footage. It's based on all kinds of things, based on the flow of the club, the design of the club, the parking lot. And just basically, whatever is your bottlenecks, your biggest bottlenecks in a particular location is basically creates a natural number of how many people can visit a club successfully to our sort of incredible experiential visit for that customer. And that becomes your limiting factor on how many visits you have.

亞歷克斯，一如既往，你的問題很精彩，見解深刻。因此，讓我在這裡幫助大家解答您的問題。實際上，當您考慮俱樂部時，您可以在特定俱樂部內產生一定數量的訪問量，而不一定僅基於平方英尺。它是基於各種各樣的事物，基於俱樂部的流量、俱樂部的設計、停車場。基本上，無論您的瓶頸是什麼，您在特定位置的最大瓶頸基本上都會產生一個自然數，即有多少人可以成功訪問俱樂部，從而為該客戶提供令人難以置信的體驗式訪問。這將成為您造訪次數的限制因素。

And then if you take that number, say, okay, it's 12 visits a month, 13 visits a month, right, per customer, just gives you a number for how many members you can have in that club and deliver the Four Seasons, the Ritz-Carlton quality, that Life Time always delivers. To do that, basically gives you that number. Now your opportunities come very differently in different locations. If a particular club is significantly below that maximum comfort swipe number on a monthly basis, right? Then you can work on your programming, on your talent that you bring in, to try to have more visits in that particular club, which results in more members.

然後，如果您拿到這個數字，比如說，每個顧客每個月訪問 12 次或 13 次，這就給出了一個數字，表明這個俱樂部可以容納多少名會員，並提供四季酒店、麗思卡爾頓酒店的品質，這是 Life Time 一貫提供的。要做到這一點，基本上就是給你那個數字。現在，在不同的地方，你的機會將會有很大的不同。如果某一球團的每月刷卡次數明顯低於最高舒適度限額，對嗎？然後你就可以著手進行你的編程，發揮你所引進的人才，試著吸引更多人造訪該俱樂部，從而吸引更多的會員。

If you have reached a point where you -- club is saturated from that number of swipes, number of visits per day, now you have pricing opportunity. You have your wait list, then you start adding enrollment fees and you raise the dues to where the -- find the right equilibrium in that club. And then that will add more of that what we have talked to you guys about.

如果您的俱樂部已經達到了飽和狀態，因為每天的滑動次數和訪問次數已經達到飽和狀態，那麼您現在就有定價機會。您有等候名單，然後您開始添加入會費，並提高會費以找到該俱樂部的正確平衡點。然後，這將增加更多我們與你們討論的內容。

Like it's interesting to me. 1.5 years ago, we were having these conversations, and we had what, $17 million worth of dues per month if we had taken everybody who was not paying the rack rate for the rack rate. During the last 18 months, we have raised dues on those legacy customers, the people who were paying below, and now we're up to $20 million-plus of dues per month, which is the gap. Because as we've been managing the right value proposition in each club, to make sure we give the right experience, those rack rates naturally have come up, which then has not basically expanded that difference between -- differential between the non-rack paying customers to the rest.

就好像它對我來說很有趣。 1.5 年前，我們就進行了這樣的討論，如果我們讓所有不按標準價格繳費的人都按標準價格繳費，那麼我們每月的會費將達到 1700 萬美元。在過去的 18 個月裡，我們提高了那些傳統客戶（那些支付額低於這筆金額的客戶）的會費，現在我們每個月的會費高達 2,000 多萬美元，這就是差距。因為當我們在每個俱樂部中管理正確的價值主張時，為了確保我們提供正確的體驗，這些門市價格自然就會上調，而這基本上並沒有擴大非門市付費客戶與其他客戶之間的差異。

So now, when you look at our company, and we look in the next several years, three years, four years, five years, we expect that just a natural flow of the dynamics of everything we told you is going to generate strong same-store growth on the dues side. And then very, very interestingly, as we are focusing on this more affluent, sophisticated customer who really is only interested in the best experiences, which is what we are just very strategically getting more and more of that type of customer in the club, we have -- we experienced the lowest attrition rates with this customer base and we're experiencing the highest in-center spend on top of their dues.

所以現在，當你看看我們的公司，並展望未來幾年，三年，四年，五年，我們預計，我們告訴你的所有動態的自然流動將在會費方面產生強勁的同店增長。然後非常非常有趣的是，當我們把注意力集中在更富裕、更成熟的客戶身上時，他們實際上只對最好的體驗感興趣，這就是我們非常有策略地在俱樂部中吸引越來越多此類客戶的原因，我們在這個客戶群中經歷了最低的流失率，並且我們在會費之外的中心支出最高。

So right now, all the strategies we have implemented over the last five years, they are working individually and collectively. And so we have a strong momentum on the business. And we think we have so much momentum that even if there is some macroeconomic compression, which is likely to happen at some point, it wouldn't be felt through our numbers because of the backlog of opportunity, if that makes sense.

所以現在，我們在過去五年中實施的所有策略，它們都在單獨和集體地發揮作用。因此我們的業務發展勢頭強勁。我們認為，我們擁有如此強大的發展勢頭，即使出現一些宏觀經濟緊縮現象（這在某個時候可能會發生），由於機會的積壓，我們的數據不會感受到這種緊縮現象，如果這說得通的話。

Yeah. That's very helpful. Best of luck going forward.

是的。這非常有幫助。祝你未來好運。

Thank you so much, Alex.

非常感謝，亞歷克斯。

John Heinbockel, Guggenheim Partners.

古根漢合夥人公司的約翰‧海因博克爾 (John Heinbockel)。

Hey, Bahram, I wanted to start -- you now have -- you don't lack for capital, right? So if you think about gating factor, which is people. So how do you think about managing that higher level and then at the club level? And then your thoughts on org structure, operational org structure, and if you may want to make some changes there, such that you tighten up span of control, right, to safeguard the people aspect of growth.

嘿，巴赫拉姆，我想開始──你現在已經──你不缺資金，對嗎？因此，如果你考慮門控因素，那就是人。那麼您如何看待管理更高層次以及俱樂部層級的管理呢？然後您對組織結構、營運組織結構有什麼看法，以及您是否可能想在那裡做出一些改變，例如縮小控制範圍，以保障成長的人力方面。

Yes. It's an interesting question, John. Look, we have two elements that we have to be cognizant. Number one, I don't think anybody is asking what our company -- this is interesting because I'm sure you're not thinking this is a tech business. But I have been driving AI relentlessly for the last couple of years to our company. And my belief is if you are not implementing strong AI in every part of your business, you're going to fall behind miserably.

是的。這是一個有趣的問題，約翰。看，我們必須認識到兩個因素。首先，我認為沒有人會問我們的公司是什麼——這很有趣，因為我確信你不會認為這是一家科技公司。但在過去的幾年裡，我一直堅持不懈地推動我們公司人工智慧的發展。我相信，如果你沒有在業務的每個部分實施強人工智慧，你就會慘敗。

So then that breaks down to two categories with AI: AI as it relates to efficiency of operations and executing what to do, and those all will have impact on cost efficiencies; and then AI as it relates to the customer experience, which is our L.AI.C, which I simply cannot wait 'til sometime this summer, should we hold the investor conference, to basically unveil what our digital platform, coupled with L.AI.C, our Life Time AI companion, can do for customers and how it can serve as a gateway to healthy living and healthy aging for all people.

因此，人工智慧可以分為兩類：人工智慧與營運效率和執行任務有關，這些都會對成本效率產生影響；然後是與客戶體驗相關的人工智慧，也就是我們的 L.AI.C，我已經迫不及待地等到今年夏天的某個時候了，我們應該召開投資者會議，基本上揭曉我們的數位平台，加上我們的 Life Time AI 伴侶 L.AI.C，可以為客戶做些什麼，以及它如何成為所有人健康的生活和健康。

So we are in a moment in time, I believe it's revolutionary, not evolutionary in the next decade in how we can think about everything we do. So I don't necessarily believe that you need to have more people or more layers to deliver the best experiences to the customer. And it's basically, you have to have a vision for what that ultra high-end experiential delivery is and then figure out how you can deliver that most efficiently.

所以，我們正處於一個時代時刻，我相信，在未來十年，我們思考所做的一切事情的方式將是革命性的，而不是進化性的。所以我並不認為你需要更多的人或更多的層級來為客戶提供最好的體驗。基本上，你必須對超高端體驗交付有一個願景，然後弄清楚如何最有效地交付它。

And frankly, sometimes having significantly less layers, it actually improves the customers' experience, which is what has happened at Life Time over the last four years. We have -- like I mentioned before, which is only three -- my expectation, there is only three people to any decision. No more than three layers. More than that, you're just slowing things down, and I don't think you get anything for it.

坦白說，有時層數明顯減少實際上可以改善顧客的體驗，這正是 Life Time 在過去四年中發生的變化。正如我之前提到的，我們只有三個人，我的預期是，任何決定都只有三個人來做。不多於三層。不僅如此，你只是在拖慢事情的進程，而且我認為你不會得到任何回報。

So we are -- John, we're in a really, really great place. We have tons of initiatives internally on taking advantage of all that is happening with the technology both on customer experience and efficiencies in the company.

所以，約翰，我們現在處於一個非常非常好的位置。我們內部採取了大量舉措，充分利用科技帶來的一切優勢，提升客戶體驗和公司效率。

And then my follow-up is when you think about the 143 visits per year, I'm not sure what the best or the most loyal members, where they're at. I don't know if they're at 160, 170, 180, but any thoughts on that? And then sort of keep waiting, right, for the in-center revenue spend per month to start to accelerate, right? Because you've got all this traffic and you're improving DPT and other things and the wallet is there. I know you've wanted to do that organically, right? Let them find these services. So do you think the potential is there, but it's going to be slow or does anything accelerate that?

然後我的後續問題是，當你想到每年 143 次訪問時，我不確定最好的或最忠誠的會員在哪裡。我不知道他們是否達到了 160、170 或 180，對此您有什麼想法嗎？然後繼續等待，對吧，等待中心每月的收入支出開始加速，對吧？因為你已經獲得了所有這些流量，而且你正在改進 DPT 和其他東西，而且錢包就在那裡。我知道你一直想自然而然地做到這一點，對嗎？讓他們找到這些服務。那麼您是否認為存在潛力，但進程會很緩慢或有什麼可以加速這一進程？

Well, John, if you look at the same-store business of fourth quarter and why we are raising the guidance again just after five weeks, it's because of what you just said. We are seeing more throughput right now with our in-centers as well as the dues. We have record numbers on PT. We have record numbers of dynamic personal trainers that they are super engaged. We have record amounts of applicants high high-end, best-performing talent in health and wellness, wanting to come join Life Time because of the strength of our brand and our position. So I expect we grow dues, and I expect we grow in-centers.

好吧，約翰，如果你看看第四季的同店業務，就會知道為什麼我們在五週後再次上調業績預期，這是因為你剛才說的話。我們現在看到我們的中心和會費的吞吐量都在增加。我們在 PT 上創下了歷史新高。我們擁有創紀錄數量的充滿活力的私人教練，他們都非常投入。我們擁有創紀錄數量的申請者，他們是健康和保健領域的高端、表現最佳的人才，他們希望加入 Life Time，因為我們的品牌和地位的實力。因此，我預期我們會成長會費，也預期我們會成長中心。

Yes. And if I could just add to that, just to back up what Bahram said there. If I look at just PTE comparable revenue for this -- for Q4 this year versus last year, this year, that metric is nearly triple. So it's not a small thing. And again, those are in our comparable stores. So really large growth there.

是的。我可以補充一點，以支持巴赫拉姆 (Bahram) 所說的話。如果我只看 PTE 可比營收——今年第四季與去年同期相比，這個指標幾乎增加了三倍。所以這不是一件小事。再次強調，這些都是在我們的同類商店中。因此那裡的成長確實很大。

There's two things that I mentioned in my remarks. That we aren't interested in hyping our business, as you guys know, and you called me a sandbagger, I appreciate that, John. But we don't want to give some sort of a hype to the investors or analysts about things that might happen. That's not an engineer's mind. We need to deliver results. When we have mathematical projections, then we can give you guys some -- I expect by the summer, we can show you guys again, not only the growth of that digital. The digital has grown from zero. This is not existing members.

我在我的發言中提到了兩件事。正如你們所知，我們對炒作我們的業務不感興趣，而且你稱我為沙袋手，我很感激這一點，約翰。但我們不想向投資者或分析師誇大可能發生的事情。這不是工程師的想法。我們需要取得成果。當我們有數學預測時，我們可以給你們一些——我希望到夏天，我們可以再次向你們展示，而不僅僅是數字的成長。數字從零開始發展。這不是現有的成員。

So that if you take our members using the app, that's probably 1.5 million, 1.6 million total members on that 800,000-and-some memberships. Put that aside, in addition to that, within a year, we have acquired 1.7 million subscribers, free subscribers. We expect that number to get to 3 million to 4 million by end of this year. That foundationally is helping once again make the brand reach to a much broader number of eyeballs. Out of that comes some actual regular members who are coming out of that naturally without spending any money, it's creating more demand for the Life Time membership, that's the biggest win. But what's yet to come is, as you see the MIORA rollout over the next two, three years in the clubs in addition to LTH growth, these are additional opportunities that will continue to improve the opportunity to do more in-centers, so in-center revenue.

因此，如果您使用該應用程式來統計我們的會員，那麼在 80 多萬會員中，總會員數可能達到 150 萬到 160 萬。除此之外，在一年之內，我們已經獲得了 170 萬訂閱者，免費訂閱者。我們預計到今年底這個數字將達到 300 萬至 400 萬。這從根本上幫助該品牌再次吸引更廣泛的眼球。由此產生的是一些實際的常規會員，他們自然而然地就加入了，而不需要花任何錢，這就為終身會員創造了更多的需求，這是最大的勝利。但是，正如您所看到的，MIORA 將在未來兩三年內在俱樂部中推出，除了 LTH 的成長之外，這些都是額外的機會，將繼續改善在中心開展更多業務的機會，從而增加中心收入。

So we are -- as you guys can imagine, we're not sitting on our rear end and thinking oh results are good, so they're going to stay good. We are thinking, okay, what else can we do for our customer to make their life better, to create more of a one-stop shop for all aspects of their healthy living, healthy aging, health tracking in and out of our clubs, even if when they're away from Life Time. So all of that has incredible momentum. And again, we're super eager to find a day that makes sense sometime this early -- sometime early summer to get everybody together and share the new things that are above and beyond the current business model.

所以我們——正如你們可以想像的，我們不會坐在那裡想著哦，結果很好，所以結果會保持良好。我們正在思考，好吧，我們還能為我們的客戶做些什麼來讓他們的生活更美好，為他們在俱樂部內外的健康生活、健康老化、健康追蹤等各個方面創建一站式服務，即使他們遠離 Life Time。所有這一切都具有令人難以置信的勢頭。再說一次，我們非常渴望找到一個合適的時間——大概是初夏，讓大家聚在一起，分享超越當前商業模式的新事物。

Michael Hirsh, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的麥可‧赫什 (Michael Hirsh)。

Just to touch on your last point there, you're hinting at an Investor Day or something like that in early summer. So I'm wondering, are you looking to talk about maybe updated long-term targets? Or what are you hoping to accomplish with that?

我再談談你的最後一點，你暗示將在初夏舉行投資者日或類似的活動。所以我想知道您是否想談談更新後的長期目標？或者您希望透過此舉達到什麼目的？

Yes. What I'm hoping is to introduce the new opportunities that they're asset-light that we've been working on for the last several years, but we should be at a point. There would be no point having an Investor Day unless we are -- we're not going to just have people come in here, analysts coming, investors coming in to give them the regular update on the business moving forward nicely. That we do just like we're doing right now is we would be unveiling new opportunities out of the Life Time brand that, as I mentioned to you, we expect to deliver the perfect gateway for all people on health and well-being. So that's what we are working on, and I hope that we are at a place that we can is fully expecting that we would announce something for first week of August.

是的。我希望引入我們過去幾年一直致力於的輕資產新機遇，但我們應該處於一個階段。如果我們不這樣做，那麼舉辦投資者日是沒有意義的——我們不會只是邀請人們來這裡，分析師來這裡，投資者來這裡，定期向他們通報業務進展情況。我們所做的就像我們現在正在做的一樣，我們將透過 Life Time 品牌發掘新的機遇，正如我向您提到的，我們希望為所有人提供健康和幸福的完美途徑。這就是我們正在努力的事情，我希望我們能夠完全期待在八月的第一周宣布一些消息。

That's my goal right now, but we have to fine-tune that and confirm it. But that's our expectation at this point.

這是我現在的目標，但我們必須對其進行微調並確認。但這是我們目前的期望。

Okay. And then you've spoken about the LTE digital app quite a bit. So do you anticipate monetizing this app? Or beyond getting some incremental members from it, how should we think about the opportunity from the app?

好的。然後您又談了不少 LTE 數位應用。那麼您預計這款應用能獲利嗎？或者除了從中獲得一些增量會員之外，我們還應該如何看待該應用程式帶來的機會？

That's exactly what we want to unveil to you in the summer time frame. We are building the ecosystem for that. That digital platform, my expectation is that it will be able to help you register for any athletic events. It will allow you to track your health data. And it will have knowledge of how you use the club, if you're a member, if you're a non-member, your other activities. And it basically will become your companion by guiding and helping you on your health and wellness journey, with the expectation that we will deliver everything you would want from a streaming to on-demand, podcast, education, a real, real companion to help you with all of your health and wellness journey.

這正是我們想在夏季向您揭曉的內容。我們正在為此建構生態系統。我希望那個數位平台能夠幫助你報名參加任何體育賽事。它將允許您追蹤您的健康數據。它會了解你如何使用俱樂部，你是否是會員，你是否是非會員，以及你的其他活動。它基本上會成為您的伴侶，指導和幫助您完成健康和保健之旅，期望我們提供您想要的一切，從串流媒體到點播、播客、教育，一個真正的伴侶，幫助您完成整個健康和保健之旅。

Well, then how do you monetize that? I mean, the objective is to have something that is a one-stop shop for all people. And then monetization will happen naturally. As you build the most -- definitely most trusted nutritional products for me, which I take not 50, but 80 to 90 supplements a day, so I have energy for you, Michael, so I want to make sure what goes in my body has gone for the last 15, 20 years, it's something that has no negatives, this has all the right stuff. So we have been relentless on quality of LTH products for 20-plus years.

那麼，您如何將其貨幣化呢？我的意思是，我們的目標是為所有人提供一站式服務。然後貨幣化就會自然發生。當您為我打造最——絕對是最值得信賴的營養產品時，我每天服用的不是 50 種，而是 80 到 90 種補充劑，因此我有精力為您服務，邁克爾，所以我想確保進入我體內的東西在過去 15 到 20 年裡沒有產生任何負面影響，它含有所有正確的成分。所以二十多年來我們一直堅持不懈地保證 LTH 產品的品質。

But now it's that with under the LTH brand and the month-over-month growth we're seeing, we expect that business to be a $1 billion revenue business in the years to come. And the LT Digital with tens of millions of subscribers on it over the next four, five, six years, will become an easy natural foundation for the people to find the LTH product and be able to just easily buy it. And L.AI.C will help them answer any question they have about any product, coupled with understanding of who they are, how they're using their -- how their -- all their activity levels. So all of this has been being built for the last several years quietly. And we are at a point that I think we can demonstrate this and get you guys all super excited about it.

但現在，在 LTH 品牌的帶動下，我們看到了月度成長，我們預計未來幾年該業務將成為 10 億美元的收入業務。在未來四、五、六年內，LT Digital 將擁有數千萬訂閱用戶，成為人們輕鬆找到 LTH 產品並輕鬆購買的自然基礎。L.AI.C 將幫助他們解答有關任何產品的任何問題，同時了解他們是誰，他們如何使用他們的——他們的——他們的所有活動水平。所以這一切都是在過去幾年悄悄建造的。我認為我們現在可以證明這一點，並讓大家對此感到非常興奮。

Owen Rickert, Northland Securities.

北國證券公司的歐文‧瑞克特（Owen Rickert）

Hey, Bahram, Erik. Once again, congrats on the quarter and 2025 looking to be pretty great. But can we just dive a little bit deeper into this 1.7 million app subscriptions. I guess how do these figures compare to your club membership numbers? And are they separate or overlapping?

嘿，巴赫拉姆，艾瑞克。再次恭喜本季的成績，並期待 2025 年能取得如此出色的成績。但是，我們能否更深入地了解這 170 萬個應用程式訂閱。我猜這些數字與您的俱樂部會員人數相比如何？它們是分開的還是重疊的？

What a great question. No, that's all incremental to the club members. That's -- those are not any customer who is paying dues to use the club. So that question. That number is just free digital subscribers, nonmembers, non-access free subscribers to the app. And it's just a platform to bringing people in and give them the best on-demand content, the best streaming content, the best educational content, information on their health and wellness, and the profile is basically -- it's all one stop shop. Again, I called it -- my partner, John Danhakl called it the gateway to healthy living, healthy aging. I like that. It's basically a gateway to everything for your health and wellness.

這真是一個好問題。不，這對俱樂部成員來說都是增量。那就是——那些不是任何支付會費來使用俱樂部的顧客。所以這個問題。該數字只是免費數位訂閱者、非會員、無法存取該應用程式的免費訂閱者。這只是一個平台，吸引人們並為他們提供最好的點播內容、最好的串流內容、最好的教育內容、健康和保健訊息，基本上就是一站式服務。再次，我稱之為——我的伴侶約翰·丹哈克爾稱之為健康生活、健康老化的門戶。我喜歡這個。從根本上來說，它是通往您有關健康和保健的一切的門戶。

Perfect. That's clarify a lot. And then on another note, are new center openings, the 10 to 12 this year, still skewed more towards both asset-light opportunities versus ground-up builds? And then should we still expect that dynamic to shift more towards ground-up builds in 2026?

完美的。這澄清了很多。另外要說的是，今年新開幕的 10 至 12 家購物中心是否仍然更傾向於輕資產機會而非從頭開始建設？那麼，我們是否仍應期待這種動態在 2026 年更多地轉向從頭開始的建設？

Yes. Our pipeline is so robust right now on both fronts. Like literally, it's significant -- like it's -- we could do a lot more clubs in '26 or '27 if we didn't want to demonstrate the discipline of staying within that $1.5 billion of debt, right? And having the right experience to the customers, right?

是的。目前，我們在這兩個方面的管道都非常強勁。就像字面意思一樣，這很重要 - 就像 - 如果我們不想表現出保持在 15 億美元債務範圍內的紀律，我們可以在 '26 年或 '27 年建立更多的俱樂部，對嗎？並帶給顧客正確的體驗，對嗎？

But we -- again, as an investor, I think about do they have a chance that they can deliver enough growth? Of course, there is a chance, it's just not probable. We have such a pipeline and we can mix and match between some of the ones that they're basically going into already existing spaces and the ones we built from ground up. Frankly, I don't think we should try to guide to so many of this and so many of that at any given time because it has no value in it.

但我們——再一次，作為投資者，我想他們是否有機會實現足夠的成長？當然，有機會，但是可能性不大。我們有這樣的管道，我們可以將一些基本上已經進入現有空間的管道和我們從頭開始建造的管道進行混合搭配。坦白說，我認為我們不應該在任何時候試圖引導這麼多的東西，因為這沒有任何價值。

I think we really need to make sure we help the analysts to figure out a way that basically, they think about the total square footage growth and then the relative membership growth to that square footage and dues growth, et cetera. So -- but we are -- we really have significant opportunity on all fronts.

我認為我們確實需要確保幫助分析師找到一種方法，讓他們考慮總面積的增長，然後考慮相對於該面積的會員人數增長以及會費增長等等。所以 — — 但我們 — — 我們確實在各方面都擁有重大機會。

Awesome. Thanks so much for the colors, guys.

驚人的。非常感謝你們提供的顏色。

Jesalyn Wong, with Evercore ISI.

Evercore ISI 的 Jesalyn Wong。

Congrats on the results. Just a follow-up on Alex's question on comps. I mean, we saw accelerating of comps each quarter into the fourth quarter there. Based on your comments, it seems to suggest that year-to-date trend has been strong. Just curious, has comps accelerated year-to-date there?

恭喜你所取得的成果。這只是對 Alex 關於 comps 的問題的一個後續答案。我的意思是，我們看到第四季每季的同店銷售額都在加速成長。根據您的評論，似乎表明今年迄今為止的趨勢一直很強勁。只是好奇，今年迄今，那裡的同店銷售是否加速成長？

And when I think about the bookings, what's stopping the company to deliver low double comparable growth in 2025? Or maybe just another way to think about it, what is baked in your assumptions for comp to slow down to 7% to 8% in 2025?

當我考慮預訂量時，是什麼阻止了公司在 2025 年實現低倍可比成長？或者也許只是另一種思考方式，您對 2025 年薪資成長率將放緩至 7％ 至 8％ 的假設是什麼？

Yeah. So I can take that. Yes, our comps, to your point, have been accelerating as we talked about with Q4, obviously being the strongest. And we saw that really more strongly across our in-center businesses, but also with dues. So we're guiding like we've said, to 7% to 8%. And we're -- on the dues side, we're lapping some of the initiatives that we had done over the past year or two. So on the dues side, that's -- you would expect that to come down a little bit.

是的。所以我可以接受。是的，正如您所說，我們的同店銷售額一直在加速成長，第四季顯然是表現最強勁的。我們看到，這種現像不僅在我們中心業務中表現得更為明顯，在會費方面也同樣如此。因此，我們的指導價格正如我們所說的那樣，為 7% 至 8%。在會費方面，我們正在推動過去一兩年來採取的一些措施。因此，就會費方面而言，你會期望它會有所下降。

But look, there's nothing to say that there's additional growth accelerators. Bahram's talked about on things that we can do to increase those. But right now, we're comfortable guiding into that 7% to 8% range.

但是看看，沒有什麼可以說有額外的成長加速器。巴赫拉姆 (Bahram) 談到了我們可以採取哪些措施來增加這些數量。但目前，我們可以放心地將其控制在 7% 至 8% 的範圍內。

It doesn't mean there isn't more opportunities. Again, there's always balance between giving you guys a number that is certain, and then beyond that, it's extra potential and we are generally extremely conservative on what we commit to.

這並不意味著沒有更多的機會。再說一遍，在給你們一個確定的數字和除此之外的額外潛力之間總是存在著平衡，而我們對於所承諾的東西通常非常保守。

Got it. Just a follow-up on other revenues. I know it's a really small part of the business there, but it grew really well this quarter, up 2% there. What's driving that? And how should we think about this line item in terms of growth into the next year?

知道了。只是對其他收入的追蹤。我知道這只是那裡業務的一小部分，但本季成長非常好，成長了 2%。是什麼原因導致的呢？那麼，從明年的成長角度來看，我們該如何看待這項行動呢？

Yes. I mean that line is going to include things like our Life Time Living, our Life Time Work and a lot of our athletic events. So that can be a little bit lumpy just given the timing of events. We've kind of just penciled in roughly 5% to 6% growth. But again, that could be a little bit lumpy just given the time of year and the timing of those events.

是的。我的意思是，這條線將包括我們一生的生活、我們一生的工作以及我們的許多體育賽事。因此，考慮到事件發生的時間，這可能會有點不連貫。我們預計成長率約為5%至6%。但考慮到今年的時間和這些事件發生的時間，這可能會有點不平衡。

All right. Thank you, guys, and good luck.

好的。謝謝你們，祝你好運。

John Baumgartner, Mizuho Securities.

瑞穗證券的約翰‧鮑姆加特納 (John Baumgartner)。

Maybe in terms of the next steps for growth, I'm wondering, Bahram, if you could discuss a bit of the opportunities for recovery, which seems to be a topic of increasing interest for folks in the wellness space. We've seen the news of the rollout of the cold plunge. I'm curious if you can discuss your vision for the recovery space overall. Where you believe Life Time could take that? The intensity of CapEx required? And how do we think about recovery as a contributor to either in-center revenue or even a new driver for memberships growth going forward?

也許就下一步的成長而言，巴赫拉姆，我想知道您是否可以討論恢復的一些機會，這似乎是健康領域人們越來越感興趣的話題。我們已經看到了有關寒流來臨的消息。我很好奇您是否可以討論一下您對整體恢復空間的看法。您認為 Life Time 能有怎樣的成就？所需的資本支出強度是多少？我們如何看待復甦作為中心收入的貢獻者，甚至作為未來會員成長的新動力？

Yes. It's a great question. Look, it's really an interesting business that we're in. The customer is in front of you going through their experiences. So you can actually just observe and watch and see what are the things the customers are really interested in. We have been rolling out all of the last couple of years in a recovery space, every new club has recovery, all the old clubs have been getting the recovery space. We are systematically putting in cold plunges into the clubs as we can roll them out and pace them out correctly, depending on the opportunity of each club.

是的。這是一個很好的問題。瞧，我們所從事的確實是一項有趣的業務。客戶就在您面前講述他們的體驗。因此你實際上只要觀察一下就能知道顧客真正感興趣的東西是什麼。過去幾年來，我們一直在恢復空間內推行這項計劃，每個新俱樂部都有恢復空間，所有舊俱樂部也都獲得了恢復空間。我們正在有系統地在俱樂部中引入冷水浴，我們可以根據每個俱樂部的機會，正確地推出和安排冷水浴的節奏。

We are very, very optimistic on MIORA, our longevity business. It has literally been a very, very fast pace of my expectation. We opened MIORA last year, but we took 'till September to higher the physician assistance to actually have the teams and have them fully trained, and then deliver that customer experience that was like exceptional by September. We did that. By December, we were looking for a business that is generating substantial revenue and margins.

我們對我們的長壽業務 MIORA 非常非常樂觀。事實上，它的發展速度非常非常快，超出了我的預期。我們去年開設了 MIORA，但直到 9 月我們才提高醫生協助水平，真正組建團隊並對他們進行全面培訓，然後在 9 月提供卓越的客戶體驗。我們做到了。到了 12 月，我們開始尋找一家能夠創造可觀收入和利潤的企業。

And since then, we still -- January was a bigger month over December, February is growing over January despite lower number of days. That business is moving exactly as we had hoped. And it proves to be a business that can long term -- if it doesn't do what our personal training business will do, I think long term, that business can do at least 50% of our revenue of our personal training incrementally in our clubs.

從那時起，我們仍然——1 月份的銷售額比 12 月份的銷售額大，2 月份的銷售額雖然比 1 月份少，但仍比 1 月份增長。這項業務的進展正如我們所希望的那樣。事實證明，這是一項可以長期發展的業務——如果它不能達到我們的私人培訓業務所達到的效果，我認為從長遠來看，這項業務可以逐漸佔據我們俱樂部私人培訓收入的至少 50%。

So we are constantly digging to find out how else we can make the life of our members, their health and wellness journey, more complete so they can do more of the things they want to do related to health and wellness in one place with one trusted brand. So I fully expect we will continue to grow our in-center revenue from more nutritional products, more recovery, more dynamic stretch, more MIORA and -- but we are not going to bombard our customer by pushing promotional nonsense.

因此，我們不斷深入研究，尋找其他方式讓我們的會員的生活、健康和保健之旅更加完整，以便他們能夠在一個地方透過一個值得信賴的品牌做更多與健康和保健相關的事情。因此，我完全相信，我們將繼續透過提供更多的營養產品、更多的恢復產品、更多的動態拉伸產品、更多的 MIORA 產品來增加我們的中心收入——但我們不會透過推銷無稽之談的促銷產品來轟炸我們的客戶。

We deliver the best experiences for them. We deliver the best programs. We deliver the best service, and they come to us naturally. There's tons of companies who are trying to do this longevity things remotely or whatever, but their attrition rate is ridiculous. And our attrition rate on our MIORA customer is substantially below the attrition rate of our customer right now, which is the best it's ever been in 32 years. So we are really, really encouraged with the strategy that my team has put together, and the execution of that strategy, and is 100% focused from the customer point of view.

我們為他們提供最好的體驗。我們提供最好的節目。我們提供最好的服務，他們自然而然地就會來找我們。許多公司都在嘗試透過遠端或其他方式來實現這種長壽，但他們的人員流失率卻高得驚人。我們 MIORA 客戶的流失率遠低於我們目前的客戶流失率，這是 32 年來的最低水準。因此，我們對我的團隊制定的策略及其執行感到非常鼓舞，並且 100％ 專注於客戶的角度。

We've been committed to that for 30-some years, customer point of view. So our inventions, our creations, is how do we make your life as a member better? And then that's the results that you're receiving right now induced growth and in-center penetration is just because of our direct focus on making that experience more comprehensive and better for the customer.

從客戶的角度來看，我們 30 多年來一直致力於此。那麼我們的發明、我們的創造是如何讓您身為會員的生活變得更好呢？這就是您現在所獲得的結果，促進了成長和中心滲透，這僅僅是因為我們直接專注於讓客戶體驗更全面、更好。

And then as a follow-up, coming back to the digital investments, the L.AI.C, a lot of discussion this morning around the vision. But I'm curious what you're seeing already. The downloads have been very strong. At this point, can you parse anything out in terms of activity or engagement between members versus non-members? Maybe what features are seeing the most traffic, whether it's the online store, to health advice? Any takeaways thus far?

然後作為後續事宜，回到數位投資，L.AI.C，今天上午圍繞願景進行了大量討論。但我很好奇你已經看到了什麼。下載量非常強。此時，您能否從會員與非會員之間的活動或參與度方面分析出什麼呢？也許哪些功能的流量最多，無論是在線商店還是健康建議？到目前為止有什麼收穫嗎？

Yes. It's growing fast. We are adapting it fast. And we are learning in an incredible pace. We would love to take the next five or six months, continue to improve not only the number of subscribers, that's going to grow significantly. By the time we see you, we hope to be at '25, 2.5 million to 3 million subscribers. Then we like to have -- show you all the breakdown. What percentage of these people come in; how often they come in; what are they interested in; how do we incorporate L.AI.C for them to be completely and entirely customized to each individual subscriber with incredible AI attached to it?

是的。它正在快速成長。我們正在快速適應。我們的學習速度令人難以置信。我們希望在接下來的五、六個月內，不僅繼續提高訂閱用戶的數量，而且實現大幅成長。等到我們見到你們的時候，我們希望『25』號的用戶數量能達到 250 萬到 300 萬。然後我們想向你們展示所有的細目。這些人中有多少比例進來？他們多久來一次；他們對什麼感興趣；我們如何結合 L.AI.C，讓它們透過附加的不可思議的人工智慧，完全針對每個用戶進行客製化？

I am incredibly excited about it. We're working relentlessly on it. And I don't want to speak out of turn, I think summer is when we will be able to really put on a demonstration that would be satisfactory to me. And you will get -- all these great questions you're asking, we will be able to give you answers with enough data, that that data is meaningful. We just -- we need a lot more number of -- we just need a lot more engagement, a lot more data. We need a lot more so that those statistics are legitimately accurate. Does that make sense? It's a little early right now, but the early results are amazing. It's all I can say to you.

我對此感到無比興奮。我們正在為此不懈地努力。我不想說錯話，我認為夏天我們才能真正舉行一場令我滿意的示威活動。您將得到 - 您提出的所有這些重要問題，我們將能夠透過足夠的數據為您提供答案，這些數據是有意義的。我們只是──我們需要更多的──我們只是需要更多的參與，更多的數據。我們還需要更多資訊來確保這些統計數據真正準確。這樣有道理嗎？現在還有點早，但早期的成果是令人驚奇的。這就是我能告訴你的全部。

Alex Fuhman, Craig-Hallum Group.

克雷格-哈勒姆集團 (Craig-Hallum Group) 的亞歷克斯·福曼 (Alex Fuhman)。

Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my question, and congratulations on a really strong year. I wanted to ask about your kids offering. You have a really unique offering in the marketplace for families. Curious if you could kind of help quantify for us how many of your members or how much of your business is associated with members who have a kids membership associated with that member? And how much of an opportunity is that going forward?

大家好。感謝您回答我的問題，並祝賀您度過了一個非常豐碩的一年。我想詢問一下你孩子的奉獻。你們在市場上為家庭提供了真正獨特的產品。好奇您是否可以幫助我們量化您的會員數量或您的業務與擁有兒童會員資格的會員有多少關聯？那麼，這個未來的機會有多大呢？

Yes. Alex, that's a great observation. It's an incredible part of our business. It always has been part of the strategy to create unmatchable environments for families with children. And our kids camps, summer camps, Kids Academy, parents night out, all the different things we're doing there are a humongous part of Life Time's overall success.

是的。亞歷克斯，這是一個很棒的觀察。這是我們業務中令人難以置信的一部分。這始終是我們為有孩子的家庭創造無與倫比的環境的策略的一部分。我們的兒童營、夏令營、兒童學院、家長之夜以及我們在那裡進行的所有不同活動都是 Life Time 整體成功的重要組成部分。

We have never broken that information out to go ahead and pass it out. We, of course, have it, but we do not share that information. We haven't. We've got to be conscientious of how many different information we share on a regular basis because it can honestly become confusing to the potential investors. The overall factor, things I can tell you, is that our family memberships have the highest utilization as a utilization per membership, obviously, and they have the highest retention.

我們從來都沒有公開並傳播過這些訊息。我們當然有，但我們不會分享這些資訊。我們沒有。我們必須認真考慮我們定期分享多少不同的訊息，因為它可能會讓潛在投資者感到困惑。我可以告訴你的總體因素是，我們的家庭會員資格以人均會員利用率計算顯然是最高的，而且保留率也最高。

And it's more or less a part of the overall strategy that we laid out 30 years ago to create a facility that was the best experience for singles and the best experience for couples, and even better experience for families with kids. But it's part of the overall strategy of Life Time.

這或多或少是我們 30 年前製定的整體策略的一部分，旨在創建一個為單身人士提供最佳體驗、為夫妻提供最佳體驗、甚至為有孩子的家庭提供更好體驗的設施。但這就是 Life Time 整體策略的一部分。

Yes. And if I can just add to that. I mean it's a big differentiator for Life Time. But Bahram did mention we don't break out statistics. But what we can -- what I can tell you is this year, from an engagement standpoint and a penetration standpoint, some of the camps and things we do around our kids programming, we had some record participation. So it's just another component of the engagement we're seeing.

是的。我可以補充一下。我的意思是，這對 Life Time 來說是一個很大的區別因素。但巴赫拉姆確實提到過，我們不會公佈統計數據。但我們能夠——我可以告訴你們的是，今年，從參與度和滲透力的角度來看，我們圍繞兒童計畫開展的一些訓練營和活動，參與人數創下了紀錄。所以這只是我們所看到的參與的另一個組成部分。

Yes. And most of -- like a summer camps pretty much universally are sold out. We sell out long ahead of the season starting. So when we are seeing stronger trend right now than last year, and last year was an incredible year. So everything looks -- everything is looking great, Alex.

是的。大多數夏令營的門票幾乎都已售完。我們的商品在季節開始前就已經銷售一空。因此，我們現在看到的趨勢比去年更加強勁，而去年是令人難以置信的一年。所以一切看起來——一切看起來都很棒，亞歷克斯。

That's great to hear. I really appreciate all the color.

我很高興聽到這個消息。我非常欣賞所有的色彩。

Chris Woronka, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的克里斯‧沃倫卡 (Chris Woronka)。

Okay, thanks. Hey, guys, more than thanks for squeezing me in. So my question, I know there's been a lot covered, but I don't know that we talked a lot about the pretty recent launch of the online supplement sales and the in-center supplement sales. And, Bahram, I think it was about three or four months ago that you expanded the launch. So I'm just curious as to what -- how you look at it now, if it's going according to plan or better? And what kind of the next phases of growth are for that segment? Thanks.

好的，謝謝。嘿，夥計們，非常感謝你們擠時間給我。所以我的問題是，我知道已經涵蓋了很多內容，但我不知道我們是否談論了很多關於最近推出的線上補充銷售和中心補充銷售。巴赫拉姆，我想大約三、四個月前你們就擴大了發布範圍。所以我只是好奇——您現在如何看待它，它是否按計劃進行或是否更好？那麼該細分市場的下一階段成長將會是怎麼樣的呢？謝謝。

I believe it will be an incremental game changer for Life Time in the next two to three years. You're going to see explosive growth out of LTH. We are -- I would say we are in the super, super early stages of building the groundwork, basically the root system for all systems for LTH to go. But we're seeing strong, like 25% month-over-month. Like right now, February is 25% more than it was February of 2024. But I expect that number to get to 100% by sometimes this year versus what we were doing the same month the year before. So it's moving full system. All systems are go on that, and it will be a huge growth factor for Life Time in years to come.

我相信在未來兩到三年內它將會逐漸改變 Life Time 的格局。你會看到 LTH 的爆炸性增長。我想說我們正處於建立基礎的超級早期階段，基本上是 LTH 所有系統的根系統。但我們看到成長勢頭強勁，環比增長了 25%。就像現在一樣，2 月比 2024 年 2 月增加了 25%。但我預計，與去年同期相比，今年這一數字可能會達到 100%。因此它正在移動整個系統。所有系統都在以此方式運行，這將成為未來幾年 Life Time 的巨大成長因素。

Great. Thanks, Bahram.

偉大的。謝謝，巴赫拉姆。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to pass the floor back over to Connor for any closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我想將發言權交還給康納，請他做最後發言。

Yes. Thank you, everybody, for joining us today. We look forward to seeing you at the upcoming Bank of America and UBS consumer conferences. Otherwise, we'll see you at our next quarterly earnings call.

是的。感謝大家今天的參與。我們期待在即將召開的美國銀行和瑞銀消費者會議上見到您。否則，我們將在下次季度財報電話會議上見到您。

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的電話會議到此結束。現在您可以斷開您的線路。感謝您的參與。