林德集團 (LIN) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Linde First Quarter 2023 Earnings Teleconference Webcast. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) I'd now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

美好的一天，謝謝你的支持。歡迎收看林德 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議網絡直播。 （操作員說明）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。 （操作員說明）我現在想將會議交給投資者關係主管 Juan Pelaez 先生。請繼續，先生。

Chris, thank you. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for attending our 2023 first Quarter Earnings Call and Webcast. I'm Juan Pelaez, Head of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by Sanjiv Lamba, Chief Executive Officer; and Matt White, Chief Financial Officer.

克里斯，謝謝你。大家早上好，感謝您參加我們的 2023 年第一季度財報電話會議和網絡直播。我是 Juan Pelaez，投資者關係主管，今天上午，首席執行官 Sanjiv Lamba 加入了我的行列；和首席財務官 Matt White。

Today's presentation materials are available on our website at linde.com in the Investors section. Please read the forward-looking statement disclosure on Page 2 of the slides and note that it applies to all statements made during this teleconference. The reconciliations of the adjusted numbers are in the appendix to this presentation. Sanjiv will provide some opening remarks, and then Matt will give an update on Linde's first quarter financial performance and outlook, after which, we will wrap up with Q&A. Let me now turn the call over to Sanjiv.

今天的演示材料可在我們網站 linde.com 的投資者部分獲取。請閱讀幻燈片第 2 頁的前瞻性聲明披露，並註意它適用於本次電話會議期間所做的所有聲明。調整後數字的對賬在本演示文稿的附錄中。 Sanjiv 將提供一些開場白，然後 Matt 將介紹林德第一季度財務業績和前景的最新情況，之後，我們將以問答環節結束。現在讓我把電話轉給 Sanjiv。

Thanks, Juan, and a very good morning, everyone. We had a strong start to the year as Linde employees once again delivered on their commitments, irrespective of the geopolitical and economic headwinds. Earnings per share, operating margin and return on capital, all reached new record highs. Robust pricing coupled with dependable return on capital have more than compensated for a weaker economy. Just like the last 4 years, Linde's ability to consistently deliver earnings growth in any environment is a testament to the resilient portfolio, operating excellence and capital discipline.

謝謝，胡安，大家早上好。林德員工再次兌現了他們的承諾，無論地緣政治和經濟逆風如何，我們今年開局良好。每股收益、營業利潤率和資本回報率均創歷史新高。穩健的定價加上可靠的資本回報率足以彌補疲軟的經濟。與過去 4 年一樣，林德能夠在任何環境下持續實現盈利增長，這證明了其具有彈性的投資組合、卓越的運營和資本紀律。

And when global economies recover, which they always do, there's an opportunity to further leverage the base volume growth just as we've demonstrated in 2021. However, during uncertain times like today, we continue to execute our strategy of optimizing our base business every day, capitalizing on growth projects, including high-quality clean energy projects, all of this while maintaining our industrial gases model, coupled with a disciplined approach to capital allocation.

當全球經濟復甦時（他們總是這樣做），就有機會進一步利用基礎銷量增長，正如我們在 2021 年所展示的那樣。但是，在像今天這樣的不確定時期，我們將繼續執行我們的戰略，以優化我們的基礎業務今天，利用增長項目，包括高質量的清潔能源項目，所有這一切，同時保持我們的工業氣體模型，加上嚴格的資本分配方法。

Slide 3 provides a brief update on clean energy including key projects that are both under construction and an example of a project being developed. Let me begin by reiterating our strategy with respect to clean energy. And you'll notice it hasn't changed over the last 3 years, which it shouldn't.

幻燈片 3 簡要介紹了清潔能源的最新情況，包括正在建設中的重點項目和正在開發的項目示例。首先讓我重申我們在清潔能源方面的戰略。你會注意到它在過去 3 年裡沒有改變，這是不應該的。

Let's start with the first principle. We will stick to the core of industrial gases model. This has been a cornerstone of our strategy for decades. We are experts at designing, building, operating and distributing industrial gases and equipment. We serve many markets where our customers are experts at what they do, making our customers more productive and competitive through our core strengths is what makes Linde successful. This has been true for the last 100 years, and I expect it will continue to be true for the next 100.

讓我們從第一個原則開始。我們將堅持工業氣體模型的核心。幾十年來，這一直是我們戰略的基石。我們是設計、建造、運營和分配工業氣體和設備的專家。我們服務於許多市場，在這些市場中，我們的客戶是他們所做工作的專家，通過我們的核心優勢讓我們的客戶提高生產力和競爭力是林德成功的原因。過去 100 年都是如此，我預計未來 100 年也將如此。

Another certainty within our industry is how customers demand the same 3 requirements for the gas supply, which are safety, reliability and lowest total cost of ownership. This holds irrespective of the molecule, the end market or supply mode. This is why a key element of our strategy is to leverage our world-class engineering capabilities and existing asset network of our $3 billion hydrogen business to deliver the most reliable and lowest-cost supply systems for our customers.

我們行業內的另一個確定性是客戶如何對氣體供應提出相同的 3 項要求，即安全性、可靠性和最低的總擁有成本。這與分子、終端市場或供應模式無關。這就是為什麼我們戰略的一個關鍵要素是利用我們世界一流的工程能力和我們價值 30 億美元的氫業務的現有資產網絡，為我們的客戶提供最可靠和成本最低的供應系統。

Following these principles, we've successfully won and advanced many clean energy projects, of which I'd like to highlight just a few. The left side represents projects currently under construction. These are projects with executed contracts, fixed payments and incremental growth with predictable returns with project CapEx of just under $2 billion, including the new OCI project in Texas, where Linde will supply nitrogen and clean hydrogen by capturing CO2 for underground sequestration through our partner, ExxonMobil.

遵循這些原則，我們成功贏得併推進了許多清潔能源項目，我想重點介紹其中的幾個。左側代表目前正在建設中的項目。這些項目具有已執行的合同、固定付款和增量增長以及可預測的回報，項目資本支出略低於 20 億美元，包括德克薩斯州的新 OCI 項目，林德將通過我們的合作夥伴捕獲用於地下封存的二氧化碳來供應氮氣和清潔氫氣，埃克森美孚。

Currently, this project makes up the majority of clean energy projects in our backlog since most electrolyzer investments are designated for the merchant market and therefore, considered base CapEx. There are a few projects like the recently announced Evonik agreement that meet backlog criteria. But even here, we support local network and supply high-purity clean hydrogen to electronics and other industrial customers as well. Currently, we view these electrolysis -- electrolyzer projects as modules in our local supply network for supply of merchant hydrogen.

目前，該項目構成了我們積壓的大部分清潔能源項目，因為大多數電解槽投資指定用於商業市場，因此被視為基本資本支出。有一些項目符合積壓標準，例如最近宣布的 Evonik 協議。但即使在這裡，我們也支持本地網絡，並為電子和其他工業客戶提供高純度清潔氫氣。目前，我們將這些電解 - 電解槽項目視為我們當地供應商氫供應網絡中的模塊。

They're often integrated into our existing hydrogen network, sometimes side-by-side, leveraging the same storage and transportation infrastructure, helping optimize distribution costs. Furthermore, these projects leverage various electrolyzer technologies, including PEM and alkaline to provide the best fit to customer needs. Sale of plant is another avenue for Linde to participate in growth opportunities, which may have different customer demands or which may not benefit from integration with our existing supply network.

它們通常集成到我們現有的氫網絡中，有時並排集成，利用相同的存儲和運輸基礎設施，幫助優化分銷成本。此外，這些項目利用各種電解槽技術（包括 PEM 和鹼性電解槽）來提供最適合客戶需求的技術。出售工廠是林德參與增長機會的另一個途徑，這些機會可能有不同的客戶需求，或者可能無法從與我們現有供應網絡的整合中受益。

Now in addition to these projects being constructed, we have over 200 different projects under development. Of course, the probability of these projects being approved or won by us varies from project-to-project. On the right side of the slide, I'd like to highlight one such opportunity which was recently made public by our customer.

現在除了這些正在建設的項目外，我們還有200多個不同的項目正在開發中。當然，這些項目被我們批准或拿下的概率因項目而異。在幻燈片的右側，我想強調一個最近由我們的客戶公開的這樣的機會。

Dow recently announced that it has selected Linde as an industrial gas partner for supply of clean hydrogen and nitrogen for its proposed net zero carbon emissions integrated ethylene cracker site in Alberta, Canada. Under the framework agreement, Linde will complete the design and engineering for a Linde-owned and operated world-scale air separation, auto-thermal reformer and carbon capture complex. This complex will potentially be integrated with Linde's existing operations in Alberta.

陶氏最近宣布，它已選擇林德作為工業氣體合作夥伴，為其擬議的加拿大阿爾伯塔省淨零碳排放綜合乙烯裂解裝置供應清潔氫氣和氮氣。根據框架協議，林德將完成林德擁有和運營的世界級空分、自動熱重整和碳捕集綜合設施的設計和工程。該綜合設施可能會與林德在艾伯塔省的現有業務整合。

Engineering work is underway, and both companies are working to obtain their respective board approvals and regulatory approvals. Final investment decision is anticipated by end of the year, so I don't really have many additional details until then.

工程工作正在進行中，兩家公司都在努力獲得各自的董事會批准和監管批准。預計最終投資決定將在今年年底做出，所以在那之前我真的沒有太多額外的細節。

We continue to work on a number of other projects aligned with our strategy to decarbonize our own operations, help customers decarbonize their operations, such as the Dow project above and address new market needs such as the OCI project. Overall, total opportunities are likely to exceed $50 billion over the next decade, representing one of the best long-term growth environments I've seen in a long time.

我們繼續致力於其他一些與我們的戰略相一致的項目，以實現我們自身運營的脫碳，幫助客戶實現運營脫碳，例如上述陶氏項目，並滿足新的市場需求，例如 OCI 項目。總體而言，未來十年的總機會可能超過 500 億美元，這是我長期以來見過的最好的長期增長環境之一。

Of course, time will tell how many we ultimately sign and announce but you can see we are making meaningful progress. And despite the many differences across these projects, our full suite of offerings, coupled with a strong balance sheet will enable us to win more than our fair share. But rest assured, our participation will consistently follow our strategy and proven investment criteria.

當然，時間會證明我們最終簽署和宣布的數量，但您可以看到我們正在取得有意義的進展。儘管這些項目之間存在許多差異，但我們的全套產品以及強大的資產負債表將使我們能夠贏得比我們應得的份額更多的收益。但請放心，我們的參與將始終遵循我們的戰略和成熟的投資標準。

I'll now turn the call over to Matt to walk you through the financial numbers.

我現在將電話轉給馬特，讓您了解財務數字。

Thanks, Sanjiv. Please turn to Slide 4 for an overview of first quarter results. The sales of $8.2 billion were flat with last year, but up 4% sequentially. Versus prior year, FX was a 3% headwind. Although, we continue to see foreign currencies strengthen as evidenced by the sequential tailwind. Cost pass-through was also a headwind as energy prices have fallen in most parts of the world.

謝謝，桑吉夫。請轉到幻燈片 4 了解第一季度業績概覽。銷售額為 82 億美元，與去年持平，但環比增長 4%。與上一年相比，外匯逆風 3%。儘管如此，我們繼續看到外幣走強，這一點從連續的順風中可以看出。由於世界大部分地區的能源價格下跌，成本轉嫁也是一個不利因素。

As a reminder, we passed through power and natural gas costs contractually, which have no effect on profit dollars but will impact profit margins. Net divestitures resulted in a 2% decrease as the sale of GIST and deconsolidation of Russia more than offset the recent nexAir acquisition in the United States. Engineering is down 2% since we have not lapped the impact from sanctioned Russian projects which ceased Q2 of last year.

提醒一下，我們通過合同傳遞了電力和天然氣成本，這對利潤美元沒有影響，但會影響利潤率。淨資產剝離導致 2% 的下降，因為 GIST 的出售和俄羅斯的分拆抵消了最近在美國的 nexAir 收購。工程下降了 2%，因為我們沒有考慮去年第二季度停止的受制裁俄羅斯項目的影響。

Excluding these items, underlying sales increased 8% from last year and 3% sequentially. Inflation levels remain elevated in most countries and thus are driving higher pricing. As mentioned in prior calls, globally weighted inflation tends to be the best proxy for our price changes since most contracts have clauses that specifically address local inflation. Volumes were flat from prior year as contribution from project start-ups offset lower base volumes.

排除這些項目，基礎銷售額比去年增長 8%，環比增長 3%。大多數國家的通貨膨脹水平仍然很高，因此推動了更高的價格。如之前的電話所述，全球加權通貨膨脹往往是我們價格變化的最佳代表，因為大多數合同都有專門針對當地通貨膨脹的條款。由於項目啟動的貢獻抵消了較低的基礎銷量，銷量與上一年持平。

When looking at segment base volumes, Americas are growing due to the U.S. APAC is mostly flat since volume recovery is offset by prior year equipment sales. And EMEA is lower, primarily from on-site customers adjusting to slower economic conditions. From a supply mode perspective, we continue to see resilient or growing packaged and merchant volumes. Although certain on-site customers are lower from a combination of weaker conditions and planned turnarounds.

在查看細分市場基礎量時，美洲正在增長，因為美國亞太地區基本持平，因為銷量恢復被上一年的設備銷售所抵消。而 EMEA 較低，主要是由於現場客戶適應較慢的經濟狀況。從供應模式的角度來看，我們繼續看到有彈性或不斷增長的包裝和商家數量。儘管某些現場客戶因較弱的條件和計劃中的周轉而減少。

Sequential volumes are flat as U.S. pipeline recovery from Q4 weather offset seasonal slowdown in APAC and Latin America. Despite flat volumes, operating profit of $2.2 billion, increased 16% from prior year and 10% sequentially. This growth was driven by project start-ups and prudent inflation management through price increases and cost productivity efforts. These actions resulted in a record operating margin of 26.9%. And you can see to the right that every segment contributed to this improvement.

由於美國管道從第四季度的天氣恢復抵消了亞太地區和拉丁美洲的季節性放緩，環比銷量持平。儘管銷量持平，營業利潤為 22 億美元，比上年增長 16%，環比增長 10%。這種增長是由項目啟動和通過價格上漲和成本生產率努力進行審慎的通貨膨脹管理推動的。這些行動使營業利潤率達到創紀錄的 26.9%。您可以在右側看到每個部分都對這種改進做出了貢獻。

In the appendix, you'll notice the Engineering segment once again delivered an operating margin in excess of 25%, above the low to mid-teens we view as a long-term run rate. Similar to last quarter, this is due to favorable timing from the wind down of sanctioned projects. While this led to favorable benefits on the income statement, it also resulted in unfavorable cash timing, which I'll discuss on the next slide.

在附錄中，您會注意到工程部門的營業利潤率再次超過 25%，高於我們認為長期運行率的低至中等水平。與上一季度類似，這是由於受制裁項目結束的有利時機。雖然這給損益錶帶來了有利的好處，但也導致了不利的現金時機，我將在下一張幻燈片中討論。

For the next few quarters, Engineering results may continue to be lumpy as we wind down the remaining projects. However, we did not include any potential profit upside in the earnings guidance. EPS of $3.42, was 17% above last year or 20% higher when excluding the effects of currency. This represents the tenth quarter in a row of growing EPS ex FX, 20% or more. From a cash flow perspective, CapEx increased 28% from growth investments in both base and project CapEx.

在接下來的幾個季度中，隨著我們結束剩餘項目，工程結果可能會繼續起伏不定。但是，我們沒有在盈利指引中包括任何潛在的利潤增長空間。 EPS 為 3.42 美元，比去年增長 17%，如果不包括貨幣影響，則增長 20%。這代表 EPS ex FX 連續第十個季度增長 20% 或更多。從現金流的角度來看，基礎和項目資本支出的增長投資使資本支出增加了 28%。

Furthermore, ROC reached another record at 24%. As we continue to deliver double-digit percent profit growth on a stable capital base. Slide 5 provides more details on the first quarter capital management. While cash trends are relatively steady, the Q1 operating cash flow to EBITDA ratio was 64% or 11% lower than last year. The majority of this difference relates to timing of engineering working capital, both from a reduction in contract liabilities and an outflow from accruals and payables. To say differently, we met a contractual milestone this quarter and thus booked current income related to a customer cash deposit received over a year ago.

此外，中華民國創下了 24% 的新紀錄。隨著我們在穩定的資本基礎上繼續實現兩位數的利潤增長。幻燈片 5 提供了有關第一季度資本管理的更多詳細信息。雖然現金趨勢相對穩定，但第一季度經營現金流與 EBITDA 的比率比去年下降了 64% 或 11%。這種差異主要與工程營運資金的時間安排有關，包括合同負債的減少以及應計費用和應付款項的流出。換句話說，我們在本季度達到了合同里程碑，因此計入了與一年多前收到的客戶現金存款相關的當前收入。

In addition, we paid third-party vendors for work related to that project. Normally, you wouldn't experience a cash flow swing of this magnitude but the lumpy and accelerated wind-downs of sanctioned projects are creating this effect. Excluding engineering timing, working capital levels remain quite healthy across the company. Overall, I expect our long-term operating cash flow to EBITDA ratio to remain in the low to mid-80% range.

此外，我們還為與該項目相關的工作向第三方供應商付款。通常情況下，您不會經歷如此幅度的現金流波動，但受制裁項目的快速停產正在產生這種影響。排除工程時間安排，整個公司的營運資金水平仍然相當健康。總體而言，我預計我們的長期經營現金流與 EBITDA 的比率將保持在 80% 的低至中等範圍內。

But the next few quarters could be more volatile as we continue to wind down remaining projects. And recall, this ratio in 2021 was 96% driven by customer prepayments related to these sanctioned projects. So the multiyear average is a better indicator of performance. Available operating cash flow, which represents operating cash flow less base CapEx is stable at approximately $1.5 billion per quarter.

但隨著我們繼續結束剩餘項目，接下來的幾個季度可能會更加不穩定。回想一下，2021 年這一比例有 96% 是由與這些受制裁項目相關的客戶預付款驅動的。因此，多年平均值是一個更好的績效指標。可用經營現金流量，即經營現金流量減去基本資本支出，穩定在每季度約 15 億美元。

We continue to deploy cash to growth initiatives, dividends and share repurchases as part of our stated capital allocation policy. I'll wrap up with guidance on Slide 6.

作為我們既定資本分配政策的一部分，我們繼續將現金用於增長計劃、股息和股票回購。我將在幻燈片 6 上提供指導。

For full year 2023, we're raising guidance $0.30 at the bottom and top end for a new range of $13.45 to $13.85. This represents a growth rate of 9% to 13% versus 2022. Note, we do not assume any FX impact since currencies have mostly recovered. The $0.30 raise comes from the outperformance of the first quarter. In other words, we left alone the remaining quarters for now.

對於 2023 年全年，我們將最低和最高指導價提高 0.30 美元，新範圍為 13.45 美元至 13.85 美元。這表示與 2022 年相比增長率為 9% 至 13%。請注意，我們不假設任何外匯影響，因為貨幣已基本恢復。 0.30 美元的加薪來自第一季度的出色表現。換句話說，我們暫時不用管剩下的宿舍。

In addition and consistent with our prior approach, this assumes no economic improvement and hence, no base volume improvement. This does not represent our macro projection, but rather is just a placeholder. So you can insert your own view of the economy and adjust accordingly. If the economy improves, we'll be above this range. And if not, we'll take actions to mitigate. The second quarter EPS guidance range is $3.40 to $3.50, representing 10% to 13% growth from 2022 or 11% to 14% when excluding a 1% FX headwind.

此外，與我們之前的方法一致，這假設沒有經濟改善，因此也沒有基礎量改善。這並不代表我們的宏觀預測，而只是一個佔位符。因此，您可以插入自己對經濟的看法並進行相應調整。如果經濟好轉，我們將高於這個範圍。如果沒有，我們將採取措施緩解。第二季度每股收益指導範圍為 3.40 美元至 3.50 美元，較 2022 年增長 10% 至 13%，如果不包括 1% 的外匯逆風，則增長 11% 至 14%。

Similar to the full year, this assumes no economic improvement from current levels. Although on a sequential basis, it reflects some seasonal recovery, partially offset by lower engineering. Overall, we had a strong start, but one quarter doesn't make a year. We believe it's appropriate to remain cautious while continuing to manage the things within our control, including price, cost and capital discipline. But regardless of how the year unfolds, we're highly confident we can continue to deliver compound value for our shareholders by executing on the basics and securing high-quality customer contracts for long-term growth.

與全年類似，這假設當前水平沒有經濟改善。雖然按順序計算，但它反映了一些季節性複蘇，部分被較低的工程所抵消。總的來說，我們有一個良好的開端，但四分之一不如一年。我們認為，在繼續管理我們控制範圍內的事情時保持謹慎是適當的，包括價格、成本和資本紀律。但無論今年如何發展，我們都非常有信心，我們可以通過執行基本原則和確保高質量的客戶合同以實現長期增長，繼續為股東創造複合價值。

I'll now turn the call over to Q&A.

我現在將電話轉到問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Our first question is from Mike Leithead with Barclays.

我們的第一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 Mike Leithead。

First question, I wanted to focus on EMEA segment. Can you just speak to the step change in profitability here this quarter? I appreciate you don't really give segment level guidance. But the business used to be running, call it, $300 million, $400 million quarterly EBIT, we averaged around $500 million a quarter last year and now in a pretty uneven macroenvironment we broke $600 million, so is this sort of the right run rate going forward? Or is there something else kind of underlying the step up here.

第一個問題，我想關注 EMEA 部分。你能談談本季度盈利能力的逐步變化嗎？感謝您沒有真正提供細分級別的指導。但該業務過去一直在運行，可以稱之為 3 億美元、4 億美元的季度息稅前利潤，去年我們平均每季度約 5 億美元，現在在一個相當不平衡的宏觀環境中，我們突破了 6 億美元，所以這種正確的運行率是否會繼續下去向前？或者是否還有其他某種潛在的原因。

Sure, Mike. Let me start off by just kind of going back and telling you how the EMEA business has been looking at, actions they need to take, management actions. So the underlying impact that we're seeing come through is driven by two levers: pricing and productivity. Productivity are actions that they've been undertaking for an extended period of time, as you're aware, we've talked about it over the last couple of years now.

當然，邁克。讓我先回顧一下 EMEA 業務的情況，他們需要採取的行動，管理行動。因此，我們看到的潛在影響是由兩個槓桿驅動的：定價和生產力。生產力是他們在很長一段時間內一直在採取的行動，正如你所知，我們在過去幾年裡一直在談論它。

So they've reset their cost base effectively and continue to do that every quarter. That obviously has an impact on the run rate that you're seeing going forward. But more importantly, we are obviously seeing some upside from pricing come through. And you might recall, if you go back late 2021 when inflation started moving up, we explained to you that there is a catch-up that happens around pricing particularly around merchant and package businesses. Of course, in the current environment, when energy costs are coming down as an example, we're getting some uplift as a result of that as well, which you can see in that pricing number pretty impressive 13% that they have posted. So you have to keep those in account as you think about EMEA's business, but underlying performance driven primarily around pricing and productivity.

因此，他們已經有效地重新設定了成本基礎，並繼續每個季度都這樣做。這顯然會影響您看到的運行率。但更重要的是，我們顯然看到了定價帶來的一些好處。你可能還記得，如果你回到 2021 年底，當通脹開始上升時，我們向你解釋說，在定價方面會出現追趕，尤其是在商家和包裹業務方面。當然，在當前環境下，以能源成本下降為例，我們也因此得到了一些提升，你可以從他們發布的定價數字中看到相當令人印象深刻的 13%。因此，當您考慮 EMEA 的業務時，您必須考慮到這些因素，但基本績效主要取決於定價和生產力。

The next question is from Nicola Tang with BNP Paribas.

下一個問題來自法國巴黎銀行的 Nicola Tang。

I wanted to ask a little bit more about this $50 billion opportunity that you're talking about now in terms of clean hydrogen. I think 2 quarters back, when you talked about that greater than $30 billion opportunity, you're talking about the U.S. alone, but you broke it down into those 3 buckets of decarbonized Linde, decarbonized customers and new market. So I was wondering if you could do the same on this expanded -- this extra $20 billion, which I guess is outside of the U.S. And perhaps in terms of geography, you could talk about where you expect to see the most momentum in the next couple of years in terms of project signings.

我想多問一點關於你現在談論的清潔氫方面的這個 500 億美元的機會。我想兩個季度前，當你談到超過 300 億美元的機會時，你只是在談論美國，但你將其分解為脫碳林德、脫碳客戶和新市場這 3 個桶。所以我想知道你是否可以在這個擴展上做同樣的事情——這額外的 200 億美元，我想這是在美國以外的地方。也許就地理而言，你可以談談你希望在下一個地方看到最大的勢頭幾年的項目簽約。

Thanks, Nicola. So again, just to remind you, we -- I talked about earlier in my remarks, 200 -- more than 200 projects that we are currently developing. The way I will segment that for you is by application, that should help. So there are 3 key buckets in which we see these projects being developed. There is a mobility bucket, then there is industrial applications, the ones in our wheelhouse, the ones where we are currently working with existing industrial customers to help them decarbonize and then the last piece is really around energy and power, where hydrogen or its carrier, ammonia or methanol will play a role.

謝謝，尼古拉。因此，再次提醒您，我們——我在前面的發言中談到了 200 個——我們目前正在開發 200 多個項目。我將為您細分的方式是按應用程序，這應該會有所幫助。因此，我們看到正在開發的這些項目有 3 個關鍵部分。有一個移動桶，然後是工業應用，在我們的駕駛室中，我們目前正在與現有工業客戶合作以幫助他們脫碳的應用，最後一個是真正圍繞能源和電力的應用，其中氫或其載體，氨水或甲醇會發揮作用。

So let's split them down in -- when I think about the $50 billion, let's split them down and say, well, mobility is around 10% of that. We see industrial applications really the dominant part of that opportunity set at about 60% and the balance is large, but fewer projects around energy and power. So that's one way to think about it. As you know, and as you mentioned, Nicola, we've already reached out and said previously $30 billion plus in the U.S. driven, of course, with momentum coming out of the IRA driving a lot of that development. So you see the balance $20-odd billion that we're talking about outside of the U.S.

因此，讓我們將它們分解為 - 當我考慮 500 億美元時，讓我們將它們分解並說，好吧，流動性大約是其中的 10%。我們看到工業應用確實佔據了該機會的主要部分，約為 60%，而且餘額很大，但圍繞能源和電力的項目較少。所以這是一種思考方式。正如你所知，正如你提到的，尼古拉，我們已經伸出援手，並表示之前在美國有 300 億美元以上的資金驅動，當然，愛爾蘭共和軍的勢頭推動了很多發展。所以你看到我們在美國以外談論的 20 多億美元的餘額

We're seeing growth opportunities in our pipeline out of the Middle East. We're seeing growth opportunities come out of Mainland Europe, some in the U.K. And then, we are seeing a little bit of a buildup happen out of Australia and Asia but it does look like they will be behind the curve relative to what the U.S. and Europe is likely to see.

我們在中東以外的管道中看到了增長機會。我們看到增長機會來自歐洲大陸，一些來自英國。然後，我們看到澳大利亞和亞洲出現了一些增長機會，但看起來它們確實會落後於美國。歐洲很可能會看到。

The next question is from Jeff Zekauskas with JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Jeff Zekauskas。

In late January, ExxonMobil indicated that it wanted to build a hydrogen facility or hydrogen complex in the United States that would generate about 1 billion standard cubic feet per day of hydrogen, which is gigantic. Can you talk about how you see the hydrogen market evolving in North America now that it seems that ExxonMobil wants to enter it, do you see other integrated oil companies entering the hydrogen market as well? Do you see them [selling] hydrogen in a way that's different from the way you sell it? Can you give us an idea of what that market looks like over the next few years competitively?

1 月下旬，埃克森美孚表示，它希望在美國建造一個氫氣設施或氫氣綜合設施，每天將產生約 10 億標準立方英尺的氫氣，這是一個巨大的數字。既然埃克森美孚似乎想進入北美，您能談談您如何看待北美氫市場的發展，您是否看到其他綜合石油公司也進入氫市場？您是否看到他們 [銷售] 氫氣的方式與您的銷售方式不同？你能告訴我們未來幾年這個市場的競爭情況嗎？

Sure, Jeff. So as you think about the evolution of the hydrogen market, there are 3 aspects to keep in mind. The first that a lot of the development around clean hydrogen is driven through a range of partnerships. And you'll recall, when Linde laid out our strategy, we said that partnerships are a key component of that. And you heard me speak earlier and mentioned that ExxonMobil will be a partner for us as we look at sequestering the CO2 downhole as well.

當然，傑夫。因此，當您考慮氫市場的發展時，需要牢記三個方面。首先，圍繞清潔氫的許多發展都是通過一系列合作夥伴關係推動的。你會記得，當林德製定我們的戰略時，我們說合作夥伴關係是其中的一個關鍵組成部分。你聽過我早些時候的講話，並提到埃克森美孚將成為我們的合作夥伴，因為我們也考慮在井下封存二氧化碳。

So just to keep in mind that that's one of those developments, and we are actually partnering with a number of players, including IOCs and NOCs that have an intent to try and develop their own projects around hydrogen because they lean on us to provide either technology, operating experience or indeed, sometimes the benefit of our network. So that's one.

所以請記住，這是其中一項發展，我們實際上正在與許多參與者合作，包括國際石油公司和國家石油公司，它們有意嘗試圍繞氫開發自己的項目，因為他們依靠我們提供任何一種技術，操作經驗或確實，有時我們的網絡的好處。這就是一個。

The second thing to keep in mind is we have the ability to leverage our existing infrastructure that we have built over decades that supports that $3 billion business that we have in the U.S. Gulf Coast. And really, I think that's where a competitive advantage for Linde turns up. Very often, other partners or potential partners reach out to us because they recognize the impact and advantage that we carry as a result of that infrastructure investment and want to partner with us as well.

要記住的第二件事是，我們有能力利用我們數十年來建立的現有基礎設施，這些基礎設施支持我們在美國墨西哥灣沿岸擁有的價值 30 億美元的業務。實際上，我認為這就是林德的競爭優勢所在。很多時候，其他合作夥伴或潛在合作夥伴會與我們聯繫，因為他們認識到我們因基礎設施投資而帶來的影響和優勢，並且也希望與我們合作。

So that's the other piece to kind of keep in mind. The last, a number of players will want to decarbonize their operations. And what you're speaking about the specific example, Jeff, is driven around decarbonization of their operations in Baytown. Here, what they're attempting to do is to actually produce significant hydrogen. You mentioned 1 billion stuff. And a large portion, if not most of that will actually go into decarbonizing their own operations.

所以這是另一件要記住的事情。最後，一些參與者希望將他們的運營脫碳。傑夫，你所說的具體例子是圍繞他們在 Baytown 的業務脫碳而推動的。在這裡，他們試圖做的是實際生產大量氫氣。你提到了 10 億個東西。並且很大一部分，如果不是大部分，實際上將用於他們自己的運營脫碳。

Obviously, the support from 45Q makes that more attractive, makes that hydrogen going as an input into their crackers, into their chemical systems, downstream into the refining systems, a lot more attractive from a pricing point of view. And you're seeing that is the development that's happening. I'm pretty hopeful that we will have a role to play in those projects that people like ExxonMobil and others will undertake through the provision of our technology and operating capabilities as well.

顯然，來自 45Q 的支持使其更具吸引力，使氫氣作為輸入進入他們的裂解裝置、化學系統、下游進入煉油系統，從定價的角度來看更具吸引力。你看到的是正在發生的發展。我非常希望我們也能通過提供我們的技術和運營能力，在像埃克森美孚和其他人這樣的人將承擔的那些項目中發揮作用。

And Jeff, this is Matt. Maybe just one other thing I'd add. I think another way to think about it is when you look at the hydrocarbon market today for sort of transportation and energy, it's somewhere in the order of a $6 trillion market. My number may not be exact, but it's something in that order. And when you look at the industrial gas industry, our participation in that market is a fraction of a percent.

傑夫，這是馬特。也許只是我要補充的另一件事。我認為另一種思考它的方式是，當你看看今天的碳氫化合物市場的運輸和能源時，它大約是一個 6 萬億美元的市場。我的號碼可能不准確，但它是按順序排列的。當你看看工業氣體行業時，我們在該市場的參與度僅為百分之幾。

So in my view, a lot of that $6 trillion market is what is being addressed and potentially converted to things like hydrogen and so if that happens, I think that actually creates opportunities in areas that we had a very, very small participation in the past. But time will ultimately tell.

所以在我看來，這個 6 萬億美元的市場中有很多正在被解決並可能轉化為氫等東西，所以如果發生這種情況，我認為這實際上在我們過去參與非常非常小的領域創造了機會.但時間最終會證明一切。

The next question is from Duffy Fischer with Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的 Duffy Fischer。

Two questions really. One, around the projects. So the OCI, the Dow, roughly, what would be the cadence you would expect announcements like that over the next 3 or 4 years? Is it 3 or 4 a year? Is it more than that? And then two, Matt, on your guidance, you said you're putting in no volume improvement, but that's not your base case. Could you talk about just what you're seeing macro-wise volume and what you would expect this year? What would be a decent base case?

真的有兩個問題。一是圍繞項目。那麼 OCI，道瓊斯指數，大致來說，您預計在未來 3 或 4 年內發布此類公告的節奏是什麼？一年3還是4次？不止於此嗎？然後兩個，馬特，根據你的指導，你說你沒有增加音量，但這不是你的基本情況。您能否談談您看到的宏觀交易量以及您對今年的預期？什麼是體面的基本案例？

Duffy, I'll start off by just talking about the clean energy projects. And I think, the important thing to remember there is that these projects have a life cycle that they need to go through before they get announced, there is no way to predict what types of announcements and frequency of announcements you would see on these projects. But I think it's important to maybe remind you of just the project development stages they go through.

達菲，我先談談清潔能源項目。而且我認為，要記住的重要一點是，這些項目在宣布之前需要經歷一個生命週期，無法預測您會在這些項目上看到什麼類型的公告和公告頻率。但我認為提醒您他們所經歷的項目開發階段很重要。

So typically, a project of this size will go through a feasibility study followed by a pre-feed followed by a feed, which is where you actually get to a point where you've got the quantities and the investment requirements in place based on the detailed engineering and design, which results in the FID. That -- all of those stages put together would take anywhere between 18 to 24 months, in some cases, if it's a complex projects stretching up to 2.5 years.

因此，通常情況下，這種規模的項目將先進行可行性研究，然後進行預供料，然後進行供料，這是您實際到達的地方，您已經根據詳細的工程和設計，這導致了 FID。那 - 所有這些階段放在一起將需要 18 到 24 個月之間的任何時間，在某些情況下，如果它是一個長達 2.5 年的複雜項目。

Beyond that, you would then see another 2.5 to 3 years in execution before final start-up happens. So that's the way I think about the frequency that you would expect to see projects. These projects have been under development for a while, and you kind of continue to see those announcements reflecting the different stages these projects are at.

除此之外，您還需要 2.5 到 3 年的執行時間才能最終啟動。這就是我考慮您期望看到項目的頻率的方式。這些項目已經開發了一段時間，您會繼續看到反映這些項目所處不同階段的公告。

And as far as the guidance, Duffy, so I'll start with -- and as you probably know, when you think about two economic metrics that might be proxies to think about would be industrial production and then CPI for inflation. I'm not going to tell you what we think because whatever it is, it's wrong, nobody knows what the future will bring on that. But what I can say is we continue to internally focus on a model that can quickly adapt to whatever does happen.

至於指導，Duffy，所以我將從 - 正如你可能知道的那樣，當你考慮兩個可能代表考慮的經濟指標時，工業生產和通貨膨脹的 CPI。我不會告訴你我們的想法，因為不管它是什麼，都是錯誤的，沒有人知道未來會發生什麼。但我能說的是，我們繼續在內部專注於能夠快速適應任何情況的模型。

And clearly, we're seeing inflation continue to be elevated, and we need to make sure that we can locally manage that through our contract structures to capture that inflation through pricing to make sure that we can continue to stay on top of that. On the volume side, we are well positioned to capture when it recovers. As you know, we are a contractual business.

很明顯，我們看到通貨膨脹繼續上升，我們需要確保我們可以通過我們的合同結構在本地進行管理，通過定價來捕捉通貨膨脹，以確保我們能夠繼續保持領先地位。在交易量方面，我們有能力在它恢復時捕捉到。如您所知，我們是一家合同企業。

As Sanjiv mentioned, we demonstrated that in 2021 with the recovery if and when that comes back, we will be very well positioned to do that. But for now, we just left out this sort of flat, no-improvement view similar to what we've been doing over the last 2 to 3 years. And we'll see how it plays out. But I feel quite good that no matter what it does bring, we'll be prepared to quickly adapt and manage it.

正如 Sanjiv 提到的那樣，我們證明了在 2021 年隨著經濟復甦，如果經濟復甦，我們將完全有能力做到這一點。但就目前而言，我們只是忽略了這種類似於過去 2 到 3 年我們一直在做的事情的平坦、無改善的觀點。我們將看看結果如何。但我感覺很好，無論它帶來什麼，我們都會準備好快速適應和管理它。

The next question is from David Begleiter with Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 David Begleiter。

Sanjiv and Matt, just on EMEA pricing, with energy prices now falling, how should that flow through will be -- energy price or the pricing realization in Q2 and the rest of the year?

Sanjiv 和 Matt，就 EMEA 定價而言，隨著能源價格的下跌，這種情況應該如何流動——能源價格或第二季度和今年剩餘時間的定價實現？

So David, I mentioned briefly when responding to Mike earlier on that. In terms of pricing, as we've explained before -- I'll take a step back and just remind you that when we think about pricing, we think about a pass-through mechanism that is the on-site contracts, where we have a direct correlation between what happens to costs and energy costs, in particular, but inflation and how we pass that through.

所以大衛，我在早些時候回應邁克時簡要提到了這一點。在定價方面，正如我們之前解釋過的——我會退後一步，提醒你，當我們考慮定價時，我們考慮的是一種傳遞機制，即現場合同，我們有成本和能源成本發生的變化之間存在直接關聯，特別是通貨膨脹以及我們如何通過它。

The balance is also a pricing mechanism. We've explained previously as inflation was picking up in 2021 that there is usually a lag that happens at the beginning of that cycle. We are now at the back end of that cycle where you're seeing energy costs go down. And again, that same lag applies over here. We've said the lag is between 1 to 2 quarters, and we're seeing a little bit of that lag and benefiting us, of course, in terms of the pricing that we are seeing on the merchant and package side of our business.

餘額也是一種定價機制。我們之前已經解釋過，隨著 2021 年通貨膨脹率上升，通常在該週期開始時會出現滯後。我們現在處於該週期的後端，您會看到能源成本下降。同樣，同樣的滯後也適用於這裡。我們已經說過滯後時間在 1 到 2 個季度之間，我們看到了一點滯後並使我們受益，當然，就我們在業務的商家和包裹方面看到的定價而言。

Of course, pricing takes a lot of hard work, as I've said previously on a number of occasions, and our team over there has done a tremendous job in making sure that we continue to push that base price through. And of course, instances where you have surcharges, to the extent possible, we have a continuous process of converting those surcharges into base product pricing, ensuring that we have those price numbers that pricing actions stick longer term as well.

當然，正如我之前多次說過的那樣，定價需要付出很多努力，我們那邊的團隊在確保我們繼續推動基本價格方面做了大量工作。當然，在您有附加費的情況下，我們會盡可能將這些附加費轉化為基本產品定價，以確保我們擁有那些定價行動也能長期堅持的價格數字。

Very good. And just on EMEA volumes, do you expect EMEA volumes to be down for the rest of the year in all 3 quarters?

非常好。就 EMEA 銷量而言，您是否預計 EMEA 銷量在今年餘下時間的所有 3 個季度都會下降？

So in terms of EMEA volumes, what we are seeing -- I'll tell you, clearly, year-on-year, we are seeing some softness in EMEA volumes. Tends to be around the on-site business, in particular, chemicals and energy more specifically. On the on-site, I'd have to say sequentially, we are seeing a little bit of a pickup. It's slight particularly around metals and steel production in EMEA. So there is a little bit of a movement. Sequentially, on-site volumes are up just a little bit.

因此，就 EMEA 銷量而言，我們所看到的——我會清楚地告訴你，與去年同期相比，我們看到 EMEA 銷量有些疲軟。傾向於圍繞現場業務，尤其是更具體的化學品和能源。在現場，我不得不依次說，我們看到了一點回升。歐洲、中東和非洲地區的金屬和鋼鐵生產尤其如此。所以有一點動靜。隨後，現場交易量略有上升。

So that's kind of on the on-site side. Merchant and package has been pretty flat. Now that's good news because we're obviously watching to see industrial activity pick up with the relative stability in energy costs that we're seeing and as that happens, we will see some volume leverage come through in the rest of the year. Of course, we're tracking this carefully. I'm not going to try and predict what's likely to happen in Europe given the many factors that are at play. But if that happens, we are well positioned to kind of find the leverage around our base volume growth that's likely to happen as a consequence.

所以這是在現場。商家和包裹一直很平淡。現在這是個好消息，因為我們顯然正在觀察工業活動隨著我們所看到的能源成本的相對穩定而回升，當這種情況發生時，我們將在今年剩餘時間看到一些數量槓桿。當然，我們正在仔細跟踪。考慮到許多因素在起作用，我不會嘗試預測歐洲可能會發生什麼。但如果發生這種情況，我們就可以很好地找到圍繞我們可能因此發生的基本數量增長的槓桿作用。

The next question is from Peter Clark with Societe Generale.

下一個問題來自法國興業銀行的彼得克拉克。

Two questions. First, on -- back on the pricing and the sequential price you're still getting in America is the question. One of your competitors was mentioning a big kickup in medical gas pricing, and I think that was led by the Americas for them as well. So I'm just wondering if your medical gas prices seem to kick or you're already ahead of the pack on that.

兩個問題。首先，回到定價問題，你在美國仍然獲得的連續價格是個問題。您的一位競爭對手提到醫用氣體價格大幅上漲，我認為這也是由美洲為他們帶來的。所以我只是想知道你們的醫用氣體價格是否似乎在上漲，或者你們已經在這方面領先了。

And then the second question around Europe on the cylinder business. You've alluded to the fact it's been doing pretty well, certainly on the pricing and the margin side. I'm just wondering if it's leading that because, again, we're hearing it's still very robust on pricing. The volumes for your competitors also were pretty good in Europe on the cylinder side. So just wondering if that is a real driver between that margin you're seeing underlying in Europe?

然後是關於歐洲氣缸業務的第二個問題。你已經提到它一直做得很好，當然是在定價和利潤方面。我只是想知道它是否領先，因為我們再次聽說它在定價方面仍然非常穩健。在汽缸方面，您的競爭對手在歐洲的銷量也相當不錯。所以只是想知道這是否是您在歐洲看到的潛在利潤率之間的真正驅動因素？

Thanks, Peter. So on pricing, I can say to you that you've seen robust pricing over the last 3 quarters, consistently across all our segments, and I think we're pretty happy with how pricing has played out. I'm not going to get into the details around what is specifically happening around medical or healthcare feeds. But across the board, most of our businesses, most end markets have seen strong pricing growth. And I think, we're pretty satisfied with where we are, and we tend to lead the industry as far as that pricing growth is concerned.

謝謝，彼得。所以關於定價，我可以告訴你，你在過去 3 個季度看到了穩健的定價，在我們所有的細分市場中始終如一，我認為我們對定價的表現非常滿意。我不打算詳細介紹圍繞醫療或保健提要具體發生的事情。但總體而言，我們的大多數業務、大多數終端市場都出現了強勁的定價增長。而且我認為，我們對我們所處的位置非常滿意，就定價增長而言，我們傾向於引領行業。

In Europe package, that's a great question. I think we watch this very carefully. The good news is on the volume side, those volumes have been holding well. And have been very resilient through the last 18 months or so. So that's really been an important piece. Pricing has been very good. I mentioned EMEA pricing more broadly. Clearly, the package side of that has benefited from that as well and has shown strong pricing performance over that entire period, including the first quarter that we are now referencing.

在歐洲套餐中，這是一個很好的問題。我認為我們非常仔細地觀察了這一點。好消息是成交量方面，這些成交量一直保持良好。並且在過去 18 個月左右的時間裡一直非常有彈性。所以這真的是一個重要的部分。定價非常好。我更廣泛地提到了 EMEA 定價。顯然，包裝方面也從中受益，並且在整個時期內顯示出強勁的定價表現，包括我們現在參考的第一季度。

I certainly expect to see, as industrial activity picks up -- so an important factor in all of that was stability in energy costs. That seems to be in place at the moment, Peter. I think it's still open what longer-term impacts there might be. But at least in the short to medium term, we are seeing that stability play a role in some level of a very slight pickup, if you will, in industrial activity across the board and that certainly helps the merchant and packaged business. So I would expect to see that volume trend play out as we see those developments continue.

我當然希望看到，隨著工業活動的回升——所有這一切的一個重要因素是能源成本的穩定。彼得，這似乎已經到位了。我認為它仍然存在可能產生的長期影響。但至少在中短期內，我們看到穩定性在某種程度上非常輕微的回升中發揮了作用，如果你願意的話，在整個工業活動中，這肯定有助於商人和打包業務。因此，隨著我們看到這些發展繼續下去，我希望看到這種成交量趨勢。

The next question is from Steve Byrne with Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Steve Byrne。

I would like to better understand the mechanisms by the pass-through cost. Is there a month or multiple months delay in how that is passed through, given natural gas costs in the U.S. and Europe have plunged and yet your cost pass-through was fairly neutral. Is that another lag effect similar to the comment you made on European pricing. You have this lag effect. These two things combined; did they represent some operating profit in those regions in the first quarter that really was just driven by lag.

我想通過轉嫁成本更好地理解機制。考慮到美國和歐洲的天然氣成本暴跌，但您的成本轉嫁相當中性，轉嫁方式是否有一個月或數月的延遲。這是不是類似於您對歐洲定價的評論的另一種滯後效應？你有這種滯後效應。這兩件事結合起來；它們是否代表了第一季度這些地區的一些營業利潤，而這些利潤實際上只是由滯後驅動的。

Steve, so let me start off by just kind of providing a headline that says as far as pass-through is concerned, there is no impact on our operating profit in dollar terms. It kind of adds to the top, and it doesn't add anything to the OP, and when it's on its way down as it is at the moment, it goes away from the top and doesn't add any dollars from an OP point of view.

史蒂夫，讓我首先提供一個標題，說明就傳遞而言，以美元計算對我們的營業利潤沒有影響。它有點增加到頂部，它不會向 OP 添加任何東西，當它像現在這樣下降時，它會離開頂部並且不會從 OP 點添加任何美元看法。

Of course, it does impact the margin numbers and the mathematical computation of the margin does improve as a consequence of that when you're in a down cycle as far as costs are concerned. Addressing your specific question, contractually, we are able to manage the pass-through on, I would say, what I would consider real-time basis. So effectively, our contractual invoicing methodology would allow us to pass it on every week, fortnight or month depending on how the contracts are structured. There isn't any significant lag, as I mentioned, on the pricing action for merchant and package where there tends to be a lag of 1 to 2 quarters, not in the case of pass-through.

當然，它確實會影響利潤率數字，並且就成本而言，當您處於下行週期時，利潤率的數學計算確實會因此而改善。根據合同解決您的具體問題，我們能夠管理傳遞，我會說，我認為是實時的。如此有效，我們的合同發票方法將允許我們每週、每兩週或每月傳遞一次，具體取決於合同的結構。正如我所提到的，商家和包裹的定價行動沒有任何明顯的滯後，往往滯後 1 到 2 個季度，而不是在傳遞的情況下。

The next question is from Michael Sison with Wells Fargo.

下一個問題來自富國銀行的 Michael Sison。

Nice start to the year. Just a follow-up on the clean energy opportunities. How much of your sale of gas backlog is clean energy now? And then if you're successful in winning your fair share, how big do you think that backlog will be for clean energy down the road? And is there a limit on how much you can put in your backlog?

開年不錯。只是對清潔能源機會的跟進。現在，您銷售的積壓天然氣中有多少是清潔能源？然後，如果您成功贏得公平份額，您認為未來清潔能源的積壓量會有多大？積壓工作中的數量是否有限制？

So Mike, at the moment, I think I referenced this earlier. We've got about just under $2 billion. That's what the slide would show you. In the sale of gas, we've got about just under $2 billion of backlog coming out of decarbonizing projects, if you will. Our expectation is that in the next 2 to 3 years, we will be making investment decisions anywhere between $9 billion to $10 billion worth. This is based on the projects we're developing, which are further advanced than others. And those decisions depending on the ones that we pursue and win and sign up will then get moved into the backlog and would then start providing the impact that we look for once they start up in due course.

邁克，此刻，我想我之前提到過這個。我們有大約不到 20 億美元。這就是幻燈片向您展示的內容。在天然氣銷售中，如果您願意的話，我們從脫碳項目中獲得了大約 20 億美元的積壓訂單。我們預計在未來 2 到 3 年內，我們將做出價值 90 億到 100 億美元的投資決策。這是基於我們正在開發的項目，這些項目比其他項目更先進。那些取決於我們追求、贏得和註冊的決定將被轉移到積壓工作中，然後將開始提供我們在適當的時候開始尋找的影響。

So you can expect the backlog to continue to grow. I do not expect it to peak up and down. I expect it to be a reasonably steady growth in the backlog over the years ahead. And that decision -- those decisions that we make in clean energy projects that I've referenced before of anywhere between $9 billion to $10 billion over the next 3 years will determine what finally happens in that backlog.

因此，您可以預期積壓將繼續增長。我不希望它上下波動。我預計未來幾年積壓工作將保持相當穩定的增長。這個決定——我們在清潔能源項目中做出的那些決定，我之前提到過，未來 3 年價值在 90 億到 100 億美元之間的任何地方，將決定積壓的最終結果。

The next question is from Vincent Andrews with Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的文森特安德魯斯。

I just wanted to ask on the buyback. I would have guessed given the delisting from Frankfurt that -- and the big cash balance at the end of the year that you might have put more money to work in the first quarter in the buyback, but it didn't look like you had to. So given that you're still sitting with a pretty large cash balance, I guess you did the packaged gas acquisition. But how are you thinking about using that cash balance and the incremental capital you generate in free cash flow this year in terms of return of capital to shareholders?

我只是想問一下回購。考慮到從法蘭克福退市，以及年底的巨額現金餘額，我猜你可能會在第一季度的回購中投入更多資金，但看起來你不必這樣做.因此，鑑於您仍然擁有大量現金餘額，我猜您進行了打包天然氣收購。但是，您如何考慮將現金餘額和您今年在自由現金流中產生的增量資本用於向股東返還資本？

Sure, Vincent. This is Matt. Specifically to Q1, you may recall for pretty much the month of January, we were officially blacked out from any buybacks at all given the nature of the merger structure that was used to do the delist. So we lost about a month or so, and therefore, we had less days to act. But we did get pretty, I would say, aggressive leading right up to it, as we saw some good opportunity there. But looking forward, it really is just going to be a consistent approach to our long-standing steady simple capital allocation model. And to reiterate for those on the call, it starts with our underlying mandate, which is we're going to maintain a single A rating and grow the dividend every year.

當然，文森特。這是馬特。具體到第一季度，您可能還記得在 1 月份的大部分時間裡，鑑於用於退市的合併結構的性質，我們被正式禁止進行任何回購。所以我們損失了大約一個月左右的時間，因此，我們可以採取行動的天數減少了。但我們確實變得漂亮，我會說，積極進取，因為我們在那裡看到了一些很好的機會。但展望未來，這真的只是對我們長期穩定的簡單資本配置模型的一致方法。並重申那些在電話中的人，它從我們的基本任務開始，即我們將保持單一的 A 評級並每年增加股息。

That is a mandate and then our priority after meeting that mandate is to invest in the business. And that is anything that meets our investment criteria. Its acquisitions, its decaps, its projects, its base CapEx. We treat them the same as we should because these are long-term investments, and we need to evaluate them on risk return against our core model.

這是一項任務，然後我們在完成該任務後的首要任務是投資業務。那就是符合我們投資標準的任何東西。它的收購、它的解封、它的項目、它的基本資本支出。我們以應有的方式對待它們，因為它們是長期投資，我們需要根據我們的核心模型對它們進行風險回報評估。

And then whatever is left over is going to be buybacks. So based on our current cash profiles, we continue to have substantial capital left over. And therefore, we will be buying in the market pretty much almost every day. And as we continue to see opportunities, we'll step that up. But that capital allocation policy will be very consistent through good macro times and bad macro times, and that's something that you can rely on for us through the long haul.

然後剩下的就是回購。因此，根據我們目前的現金狀況，我們仍然有大量剩餘資本。因此，我們幾乎每天都會在市場上購買。隨著我們繼續看到機會，我們將加強這一點。但這種資本配置政策在宏觀經濟好時期和宏觀經濟壞時期都將非常一致，從長遠來看，這是我們可以依賴的東西。

The next question is from Laurence Alexander with Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Laurence Alexander。

This is Dan Rizzo on for Laurence. You mentioned earlier, I think, about your outlook having not assuming any really improvement in the macro environment. I don't know if I missed this, but can you meet your guidance if the macro environment in North America in particular, significantly weakens?

這是勞倫斯的丹·里佐。我想你之前提到過你的前景並沒有假設宏觀環境有任何真正的改善。我不知道我是否錯過了這一點，但如果特別是北美的宏觀環境顯著減弱，你能滿足你的指導嗎？

Sure. This is Matt. I can handle that. As I mentioned in the prepared remarks, and first of all, our approach is very consistent in how we've been approaching this for the last couple of years, frankly. And we believe our view of the economy is not going to be any more accurate than anyone else's. So we'll just put a baseline there and no improvement and let you put your house view in whatever that may be.

當然。這是馬特。我能應付。正如我在準備好的發言中提到的那樣，首先，坦率地說，我們的方法與過去幾年來處理這個問題的方式非常一致。而且我們相信我們對經濟的看法不會比其他人的更準確。所以我們只是在那裡設置一個基線，沒有任何改進，讓你把你的房子放在任何可能的地方。

So in the case of if the macro deteriorates, we will take actions to mitigate. Clearly, we saw that in 2020 and we took actions. And you may recall, our full year EPS growth rate in 2020 was close to 12% growth rate. So those actions did help mitigate what was a pretty unexpected macro decline from the pandemic.

所以在宏觀環境惡化的情況下，我們會採取行動來緩解。顯然，我們在 2020 年看到了這一點，並採取了行動。您可能還記得，我們 2020 年的全年每股收益增長率接近 12%。因此，這些行動確實有助於緩解大流行帶來的相當出乎意料的宏觀衰退。

Similarly, last year, in 2022, we saw some macro softness related to the energy crisis and obviously, the invasion. And so given those, we have a track record of being able to act in case those disruptions happen, and as I mentioned to Duffy, that's how we build our operating rhythm is to be able to quickly respond when things are different in the macro than what was expected.

同樣，去年，在 2022 年，我們看到一些與能源危機相關的宏觀經濟疲軟，顯然與入侵有關。因此，鑑於這些，我們有能夠在發生這些中斷的情況下採取行動的記錄，正如我對 Duffy 提到的那樣，這就是我們建立運營節奏的方式，以便能夠在宏觀上的情況不同於什麼是預期的。

So I view this the same. Time will tell. But given our base is very local, we can react locally to what happens locally because, as you know, the macro in every country may be different. And that's how we need to approach it.

所以我對此持相同看法。時間會證明一切。但鑑於我們的基地非常本地化，我們可以在本地對本地發生的事情做出反應，因為如您所知，每個國家/地區的宏觀環境可能不同。這就是我們需要處理它的方式。

The next question is from Kevin McCarthy with Vertical Research Partners.

下一個問題來自 Vertical Research Partners 的 Kevin McCarthy。

Sanjiv, can you provide an update on your carbon offtake strategy. Last quarter, I think you indicated you were in discussions with 3 companies. And earlier this month, we learned that you've chosen to partner with ExxonMobil. My understanding is that partnership relates to OCI Beaumont specifically. So a couple of questions would be, in the case of future blue hydrogen projects, do you need to navigate the offtake each time on a case-by-case basis? And also, can you comment on the costs and recovery of those costs as you negotiate these projects?

Sanjiv，您能否提供有關碳排放策略的最新信息。上個季度，我認為您表示您正在與 3 家公司進行討論。本月早些時候，我們了解到您已選擇與埃克森美孚合作。我的理解是，合作關係具體與 OCI Beaumont 相關。因此，有幾個問題是，對於未來的藍色氫項目，您是否需要每次都根據具體情況進行處理？此外，您能否在談判這些項目時評論這些成本的成本和回收？

Thanks, Kevin. So the last time we spoke about this, I mentioned that there are 2 ways in which we look at the storage -- the capture and storage of CO2, particularly for blue hydrogen projects in the U.S. And really, that's driven around the IRA benefits that come out of 45Q providing that $85 per ton of CO2 to be captured and sequestered. And the 2 models I mentioned was a tipping fee, i.e., where Linde would own the capture and would create a pipeline that would then provide that CO2 to a partner who would take a tipping fee and sequester and manage that storage underground.

謝謝，凱文。所以上次我們談到這個問題時，我提到我們有兩種方式來看待封存——二氧化碳的捕獲和封存，特別是美國的藍氫項目。實際上，這是圍繞 IRA 的好處推動的從 45Q 出來，提供每噸 85 美元的二氧化碳被捕獲和封存。我提到的 2 個模型是一個小費，即林德將擁有捕獲並創建一條管道，然後將 CO2 提供給一個合作夥伴，該合作夥伴將收取小費並封存並管理地下封存。

The other option was for us to sell the CO2 that we have and allow the partner to take the benefit of whatever tax credits that come as part of the 45Q through their ownership of the carbon capture and sequestration process and the assets that they build in order to achieve that. We mentioned that we were in conversations with a number of players. And as you read from the announcement, we selected and worked with ExxonMobil to continue down that path.

另一種選擇是我們出售我們擁有的二氧化碳，並允許合作夥伴通過他們對碳捕獲和封存過程的所有權以及他們按順序建造的資產，利用作為 45Q 一部分的任何稅收抵免實現這一目標。我們提到我們正在與許多玩家進行對話。正如您從公告中讀到的那樣，我們選擇了埃克森美孚並與埃克森美孚合作，繼續沿著這條道路前進。

That's where the OCI -- the CO2 coming out of the OCI assets and the production of blue hydrogen would be passed on or offtaken by ExxonMobil and sequestered by them and managed long term. As we think about new projects and that we are currently developing, we have an opportunity to work with partners, including ExxonMobil and others to look at it on a case-by-case basis. Given that we have a well-established model with ExxonMobil, we will pursue that with them but it does depend, in some extent, to some extent, on the geology and the infrastructure available for us to be able to sequester this in dorms on the ground and therefore, we will work with other partners as well in the U.S. to kind of progress and move forward on that basis.

這就是 OCI——來自 OCI 資產的二氧化碳和藍色氫氣的生產將由埃克森美孚傳遞或吸收，並由它們隔離並長期管理。當我們考慮新項目和我們目前正在開發的項目時，我們有機會與包括埃克森美孚和其他公司在內的合作夥伴合作，逐案研究。鑑於我們與埃克森美孚建立了一個完善的模型，我們將與他們一起追求，但這在某種程度上確實取決於地質情況和我們可用的基礎設施，以便我們能夠將其隔離在宿舍中因此，我們將與美國的其他夥伴合作，在此基礎上取得進展並向前邁進。

As far as cost and recovery is concerned, the 45Q credits are reasonably well understood. The fact that for the first 5 years, we have a direct pay mechanism that for the balance period of 7 years to make up that 12, we have a tax credit that goes below the line. I mean recognizing that we're trying to build as much flexibility into the operating models that we want to pursue in those conversations we're having. One of those has been decided with ExxonMobil, the others will just follow and we'll kind of work that on a case-by-case basis.

就成本和回收而言，45Q 的信用是相當容易理解的。事實上，在前 5 年，我們有一個直接支付機制，在 7 年的餘額期間彌補了 12，我們有一個低於線的稅收抵免。我的意思是認識到我們正試圖在我們正在進行的對話中想要追求的運營模式中建立盡可能多的靈活性。其中一項已與埃克森美孚決定，其他人將緊隨其後，我們將根據具體情況進行工作。

Next question is from Geoff Haire with UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Geoff Haire。

I just had a quick question on Asia. I noticed that on volumes, you were sequentially down 4%. I just wonder how that plays out for the rest of the year or there was something specific in Q1? And then just one small question additional, if you don't mind. I think Matt, you said that there were some issues around the engineering business and the cash flow. How does that play out for the rest of the year, just given obviously, as you wind down the Russian businesses or projects.

我剛剛有一個關於亞洲的快速問題。我注意到在交易量上，你們連續下降了 4%。我只是想知道今年餘下時間的情況如何，或者第一季度有什麼具體的事情？然後再問一個小問題，如果您不介意的話。我想馬特，你說過工程業務和現金流存在一些問題。當你結束俄羅斯的業務或項目時，這在今年餘下的時間裡會如何發揮作用，這很明顯。

Thanks, Geoff. So I'll take the Asia piece, and I'll let Matt respond to you on the cash flow. So -- just as a quick reminder, Geoff, the first quarter in Asia is usually impacted by seasonality. The Lunar New Year has a big impact across that region. So you'll see that.

謝謝，傑夫。所以我會拿亞洲的那塊，我會讓馬特對你的現金流做出回應。所以——快速提醒一下，傑夫，亞洲的第一季度通常會受到季節性的影響。農曆新年對該地區產生了重大影響。所以你會看到的。

And when you see sequential movements, that's something to keep in mind. However, let me just give you kind of a snapshot of what we're seeing in Asia anyway. Year-on-year sales are growing. We are pretty strong across food and beverage, healthcare, chemicals and energy, manufacturing, Electronics also was strong growth in the first quarter but that was primarily due to new start-ups. As far as electronics is concerned, we are seeing some marginal weakness. So you can see that in the sequential movement in the end markets slide that we provided. We think most of that is coming out of memory. Feedback from customers suggest that we're likely to see that kind of a normalization of activity in the second half, probably towards the back end.

當您看到連續運動時，請牢記這一點。但是，無論如何，讓我簡要介紹一下我們在亞洲看到的情況。銷售額逐年增長。我們在食品和飲料、醫療保健、化工和能源、製造、電子等領域相當強勁，第一季度的增長也很強勁，但這主要是由於新的初創企業。就電子產品而言，我們看到了一些微不足道的弱點。因此，您可以在我們提供的終端市場幻燈片的連續移動中看到。我們認為其中大部分是出於記憶。來自客戶的反饋表明，我們可能會在下半年看到這種活動正常化，可能是在後端。

I've also mentioned previously, and I think we see that trend continue, Geoff, in terms of China, steel volumes being soft. We continue to see that in Q1 as well. And of course, one of the things to keep in mind when you think about the year-on-year movements is that we had some SOE, sale of equipment, sales that happened last year, which kind of doesn't help with the comps when you look at year-on-year. But sequentially, primarily Chinese New Year impact or the Lunar New Year impact across the region and then the movement that I mentioned to you across the different end markets. Matt?

我之前也提到過，我認為我們看到這種趨勢繼續下去，傑夫，就中國而言，鋼鐵量疲軟。我們在第一季度也繼續看到這一點。當然，當你考慮同比變動時要記住的一件事是我們有一些國有企業，設備銷售，去年發生的銷售，這對補償沒有幫助當你看同比時。但依次地，主要是農曆新年對整個地區的影響，然後是我在不同終端市場向你們提到的運動。馬特？

Yes, sure. Thanks, Sanjiv. So Geoff, I can start with when you think about engineering, it follows what's called percent of completion accounting. And the basics of that, for the most part, we get paid in advance. So it's negative working capital, which is a good thing. And essentially, what happens is the customer will pay us in advance of a project, and then we will debit cash and then we will credit what's called a contract liability.

是的，當然。謝謝，桑吉夫。所以 Geoff，當你考慮工程時，我可以從它開始，它遵循所謂的完成百分比會計。最基本的是，在大多數情況下，我們會提前獲得報酬。所以這是負營運資金，這是一件好事。本質上，發生的事情是客戶會在項目之前向我們付款，然後我們將藉記現金，然後我們將貸記所謂的合同負債。

And then over time, we work against that contract. And then as we recognize that work, that would go to the income statement and then we would reverse a portion of that liability and it would go and be recognized as revenue. And in a normal project, that's about a 3, maybe 4 year very structured, very well disciplined and defined engineering build rate. And that's what you've seen from us, essentially since the merger, right, for the last 4 years.

然後隨著時間的推移，我們會違背該合同。然後，當我們確認這項工作時，它將進入損益表，然後我們將撤銷該負債的一部分，並將其確認為收入。在一個正常的項目中，這大約是 3 年，也許 4 年非常結構化，非常有紀律和定義的工程構建率。這就是你從我們這裡看到的，基本上是自合併以來，對，在過去的 4 年裡。

In the case of the sanctioned projects that obviously created an event where we needed to immediately stop all work in Q2 of last year. Now the good news is our contracts address this. They have what's called the suspension clause. But you can imagine in these contracts, what we do primarily is what's called E&P, engineering and procurement. We really don't do much construction. So with the E, that's our labor internally and the P are things we are procuring around the world from vendors in China or Europe or the United States. So when you get a contract in suspension like we've had due to sanctions, you have lots of work you've accomplished, but you have to go through a process to determine at what point and how to bill that with the customer. So that takes time. Sometimes, many quarters, and it could be very lumpy.

對於受制裁的項目，這顯然造成了我們需要立即停止去年第二季度所有工作的事件。現在好消息是我們的合同解決了這個問題。他們有所謂的暫停條款。但你可以想像在這些合同中，我們主要做的是所謂的 E&P、工程和採購。我們真的沒有做太多的建設。因此，E 是我們內部的勞動力，P 是我們在全球範圍內從中國、歐洲或美國的供應商那裡採購的東西。因此，當您像我們因制裁而獲得暫停合同時，您已經完成了很多工作，但您必須通過一個流程來確定在什麼時候以及如何向客戶開具賬單。所以這需要時間。有時，很多季度，而且可能非常顛簸。

And so that's what's creating this volatility. And what you'll see in the 10-Q when we issued that later today, is the total contract liabilities for engineering as of the balance sheet date, so end of March, stands at about $4 billion. So again, what that means is we received $4 billion essentially in customer payments, of which we have yet to work off.

這就是造成這種波動的原因。當我們今天晚些時候發佈時，您將在 10-Q 中看到，截至資產負債表日，即 3 月底，工程合同負債總額約為 40 億美元。因此，這再次意味著我們收到了 40 億美元的客戶付款，其中我們尚未完成。

Now within that, $1.8 billion are specifically part of projects that's have been sanctioned. So that's kind of the number we're working within. Within that $1.8 billion, $1.2 billion is one specific project called RCA, that will probably take some time to address. My view is it could be a year or more. So it's the remaining $600 million that are a handful of projects that were substantially close to complete, we've done a substantial amount of work and that's the portion that will probably create some volatility looking ahead in the next few quarters as we resolve.

現在，其中有 18 億美元專門用於已獲批准的項目。這就是我們正在處理的數字。在這 18 億美元中，有 12 億美元是一個名為 RCA 的特定項目，可能需要一些時間才能解決。我的觀點是可能需要一年或更長時間。因此，剩下的 6 億美元是少數幾個基本接近完成的項目，我們已經完成了大量工作，這部分可能會在我們解決的未來幾個季度中造成一些波動。

But I would say all in, these are projects that had good contracts. We were paid in advance, and we've done a substantial amount of work, and it will just take time to get the final recognition given the process of suspension that the contracts address.

但我要說的是，這些項目都有很好的合同。我們獲得了預付款，並且我們已經完成了大量工作，考慮到合同規定的暫停流程，獲得最終認可還需要時間。

The next question is from John Roberts with Credit Suisse.

下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的約翰羅伯茨。

Do you think the new EPA greenhouse gas proposed rules for power plants will drive U.S. adoption of ammonia combustion which could help your hydrogen backlog? Or do you think it's going to simply accelerate the replacement of coal-fired power plants.

您認為新的 EPA 溫室氣體提議的發電廠規則是否會推動美國採用氨燃燒，這可能有助於您的氫氣積壓？或者你認為它會簡單地加速燃煤電廠的更換。

John, that's a very complex question. I'm not sure I'm going to do justice to it in this call, but I would say to you there are 3 things that we are considering. Clearly, when we think about the thermal power plants, they have a couple of avenues to work through. What we're seeing in Japan and Korea, as an example, is ammonia blending. So it is possible they currently have a number of pilots successfully operating there, going up to 20% to 30% of ammonia in thermal plant usage to bring down emissions by a significant amount. So yes, I do believe that we will see some level of ammonia blending as part of the development to manage emissions around thermal power plants.

約翰，這是一個非常複雜的問題。我不確定我是否會在這次電話會議中公正地對待它，但我想告訴你，我們正在考慮 3 件事。顯然，當我們考慮火力發電廠時，它們有幾個途徑可以解決。例如，我們在日本和韓國看到的是氨混合。因此，他們目前有可能在那裡成功地進行了一些試點，將熱電廠使用的氨增加到 20% 到 30%，以大幅減少排放。所以是的，我確實相信我們會看到一定程度的氨混合，作為管理火力發電廠周圍排放的發展的一部分。

The other piece that is obviously being worked on at the moment is to see if direct injection of ammonia, 100% into new power turbine would be effective. Again, there's a 40-megawatt power turbine that's currently operational, being piloted on this. Initial results seem to suggest that it looks promising. And therefore, I would see ammonia potentially benefit longer term as a direct power source for such power turbines as and when they get kind of deployed and installed.

目前顯然正在研究的另一部分是看看將氨直接注入新動力渦輪機 100% 是否有效。同樣，目前有一台 40 兆瓦的渦輪機正在運行，正在試驗中。初步結果似乎表明它看起來很有希望。因此，我認為氨在部署和安裝時作為此類動力渦輪機的直接動力源可能會長期受益。

Lastly, there is always the option to consider, right? It's hard to abate. But there's always the option to consider given the geology in the U.S. in particular, the opportunity to try and capture even though it's small kind of levels of CO2 in the emissions to try and capture that and sequester it as another option, particularly made a little more attractive with the 45Q tax credits that become available as well. So we think there will be a combination of things that will happen. We are working with OEMs on the ammonia injection. We're working with partners to look at ammonia developments to support that injection but all of that will take time to play out.

最後，總是要考慮的選項，對吧？很難消退。但是，考慮到美國的地質情況，總是有考慮的選擇，特別是有機會嘗試和捕獲，即使排放物中的二氧化碳含量很小，也可以嘗試捕獲它並將其作為另一種選擇進行封存，特別是做了一點45Q 稅收抵免也變得更具吸引力。因此，我們認為將會發生各種事情的組合。我們正在與原始設備製造商合作進行氨噴射。我們正在與合作夥伴一起研究氨的發展以支持這種注入，但所有這些都需要時間才能發揮作用。

The next question is from Christopher Parkinson with Mizuho.

下一個問題來自瑞穗的克里斯托弗帕金森。

Great. You had on this a little on your backlog commentary and what you plan to deploy. But can you just talk about the prioritization and [about the $3 billion of capture] -- Linde-specific projects you've previously been highlighting.

偉大的。您對積壓評論和您計劃部署的內容有一些了解。但是你能不能談談優先次序和[關於 30 億美元的捕獲]——你之前一直強調的林德特定項目。

Chris, you're right. So I mean when we go back and look at what we put out earlier on when we talked about the $30-plus billion we said decarbonizing our own operations, we expect to invest about $3 billion. We have about 11 assets in the U.S. Gulf Coast that we think would qualify for that. There is active work happening. And in fact, later today, I'll have a discussion on one of those first projects that we're looking in that space.

克里斯，你是對的。所以我的意思是，當我們回頭看看我們早些時候談到我們所說的 30 多億美元脫碳我們自己的業務時，我們預計將投資約 30 億美元。我們在美國墨西哥灣沿岸擁有大約 11 處資產，我們認為這些資產符合條件。有積極的工作正在進行。事實上，今天晚些時候，我將討論我們正在該領域尋找的首批項目之一。

I'd be upfront and tell you that I'm looking at a combination of two things when we make those decisions on that $3 billion that we talked about. Obviously, the timing is in our control. But what I am looking at is to make sure that we have an asset that has a long-term contract underpinning it so that I have the ability to generate blue hydrogen and provide that back into my customer network.

我會提前告訴你，當我們就我們談到的 30 億美元做出這些決定時，我正在考慮兩件事的結合。顯然，時間在我們的控制之中。但我正在考慮的是確保我們擁有一項資產，該資產有長期合同作為支撐，這樣我就有能力產生藍色氫並將其提供回我的客戶網絡。

And the second is to just make sure that I have an effective project that meets that investment criteria we set out. While I'm clearly committed to reducing our emissions for Scope 1, which is what happens when I decarbonize our own operations. At the same time, I'm also committed to making sure that we provide appropriate returns to our shareholders as a consequence of putting assets or money on the ground in terms of assets. We're trying to match those two to make sure that we have customers who have willingness to offtake the blue hydrogen and allow us to then go ahead with projects like that. I certainly expect to see that momentum building up in the next 5 to 7 years, we'll see a lot more of that happen.

第二是確保我有一個符合我們設定的投資標準的有效項目。雖然我明確承諾減少範圍 1 的排放量，這就是我對自己的運營進行脫碳時發生的情況。同時，我還致力於確保我們通過投入資產或以資產形式投入資金，為股東提供適當的回報。我們正試圖將這兩者相匹配，以確保我們有願意購買藍色氫氣的客戶，然後讓我們繼續進行這樣的項目。我當然希望看到這種勢頭在未來 5 到 7 年內增強，我們會看到更多這樣的事情發生。

The next question is from Andreas Heine with Stifel.

下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Andreas Heine。

Most questions have been answered. Only two small ones are left. If I look on the EMEA margin, compare that with Americas and the difference, if I look on Q1, it's just 100 basis points. As you outlined that the sales margin is function of energy prices and energy prices in Europe are obviously significantly higher than in Americas. I would come to the conclusion that at this stage, your unit margin in EMEA is basically substantially higher than America. Is that a fair conclusion? That's the first.

大多數問題已得到解答。只剩下兩個小的了。如果我看一下 EMEA 利潤率，將其與美洲進行比較，如果我看第一季度，則差異僅為 100 個基點。正如您所概述的那樣，銷售利潤率是能源價格的函數，歐洲的能源價格明顯高於美洲。我得出的結論是，在這個階段，你們在 EMEA 的單位利潤率基本上大大高於美國。這是一個公平的結論嗎？這是第一個。

And secondly, could you give some flavor how big this Dow contract might be as it is more the energy part than the product itself, you're delivering to, I would assume that the Dow project would be significantly smaller than that of OCI. And these are 2, my questions.

其次，你能否介紹一下這份道指合約可能有多大，因為它更多的是能源部分而不是你要交付的產品本身，我認為道指項目將比 OCI 的項目小得多。這些是 2，我的問題。

Andreas, let me start with the Dow contract. I'll let Matt give you a little more color on the margins. Although I do want to remind everyone on the margin improvement we've seen in EMEA, which has been pretty solid. On the Dow contract, all I can say at this stage is there are many learnings that we're getting out of the OCI contract that we are applying to what we see in the Dow side -- Dow project that we are currently doing are feed on.

安德烈亞斯，讓我從道指合約開始。我會讓馬特在頁邊空白處給你多一點顏色。儘管我確實想提醒大家注意我們在歐洲、中東和非洲看到的利潤率改善，這是非常穩固的。關於道指合約，現階段我能說的是，我們從 OCI 合約中學到了很多東西，我們正在將它們應用到我們在道指方面看到的東西——我們目前正在做的道指項目是 feed在。

We feel pretty good about the size and scale in terms of those learnings being applied over here. But really beyond that, at this stage, it's too early to tell. We'll get to an FID before the end of the year I expect, and I think at that stage, we'll be able to kind of properly define and tell you what their investment looks like and what the size of that asset looks like.

就在這裡應用的這些知識而言，我們對規模和規模感到非常滿意。但除此之外，現階段下結論還為時過早。我預計我們將在今年年底之前完成 FID，我認為在那個階段，我們將能夠適當地定義並告訴你他們的投資是什麼樣子以及該資產的規模是什麼樣子的.

Just on margins before I hand over to Matt, I just want to remind you that sometimes people forget, but I go back to quarter 4, 2018 now, margins in EMEA were at about 17.5%. Since then, we've seen EMEA margins improve every year not just driven by energy but driven by all the management actions that we thought were necessary by almost 1,000 basis points, getting us to that 27.9% that we're talking about today. So there has been a fantastic amount of effort put in by the EMEA team, and I do want to just laud that effort and say that, that gradual improvement has been absolutely spectacular in many ways. Matt, anything else to add on the margins?

在我交給馬特之前，就利潤率而言，我只是想提醒你，有時人們會忘記，但我現在回到 2018 年第 4 季度，歐洲、中東和非洲地區的利潤率約為 17.5%。從那以後，我們看到 EMEA 的利潤率每年都在提高，這不僅受到能源的推動，而且受到我們認為必要的所有管理措施的推動，提高了近 1,000 個基點，使我們達到了今天所說的 27.9%。因此，EMEA 團隊付出了巨大的努力，我確實想稱讚這種努力，並說，這種逐步改進在很多方面都非常壯觀。馬特，還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Sure. And Andreas, and maybe it also kind of gets a little bit to Mike's first question. I think you can analyze the margins on the increment in a lot of different ways. But from my perspective, I think the way to think about it is the broader longer-term view and something we've said a lot on many calls going back for several years now, which is when you look at the 3 geographic segments of APAC, EMEA and Americas, we view them internally as essentially homogeneous-type businesses on how we operate and how we run them.

當然。還有安德烈亞斯，也許邁克的第一個問題也有點問題。我認為您可以通過多種不同方式分析增量的利潤率。但從我的角度來看，我認為考慮它的方式是更廣泛的長期觀點，我們在過去幾年的許多電話會議上都說過很多話，那就是當你查看亞太地區的 3 個地理區域時、歐洲、中東和非洲以及美洲，我們在內部將它們視為本質上同質類型的業務，就我們的運營方式和運營方式而言。

And based on that view, in theory, they should all be able to achieve similar margin profiles. And to Sanjiv's exact point, 2018 is the baseline when we initially merged, we had very disparate margin profiles across 3 geographic regions that we viewed essentially homogeneously. And through the years, through a lot of great hard work, this is not something that's easy, and it's something that takes time. We have started to see them converging. Now clearly, the Americas, who's the leader now, they're not stopping, they're not resting on their laurels. They are doing things to help continue to improve the quality of their business, and that's a lot of different actions across many fronts.

基於這種觀點，從理論上講，它們都應該能夠實現類似的利潤率。對於 Sanjiv 的確切觀點，2018 年是我們最初合併時的基線，我們在 3 個地理區域的利潤率分佈非常不同，我們認為這些地理區域基本上是同質的。多年來，通過大量艱苦的工作，這不是一件容易的事，而且需要時間。我們已經開始看到它們正在融合。現在很明顯，美洲，誰是現在的領導者，他們並沒有停止，他們沒有滿足於他們的成就。他們正在做一些事情來幫助繼續提高他們的業務質量，這是在許多方面採取的許多不同行動。

But what you are seeing is a convergence, you're seeing EMEA start to catch up. You're seeing APAC start to catch up. And in my view, in theory, all 3 should be quite similar in the long run. And so, that's how I would think about it in terms of a long-range view rather than individual quarterly analysis because at the end of the day, these businesses are quite similar.

但你看到的是一種融合，你看到 EMEA 開始迎頭趕上。你看到亞太地區開始迎頭趕上。在我看來，從理論上講，從長遠來看，這三者應該非常相似。因此，這就是我從長遠觀點而不是個別季度分析的角度來考慮它的方式，因為歸根結底，這些業務非常相似。

And maybe, Matt, if I add to this, the margin you elucidate to are still sales margin. If I look on that, the energy prices and energy is a very, very big input factor for industrial gases, are completely different across these regions. If I then say that the investment might be similar for a given unit, then the capital return at the same margin would be much higher in Europe than in other regions. Is that fair looking at how energy...

也許，馬特，如果我加上這個，你闡明的利潤率仍然是銷售利潤率。如果我這麼看，能源價格和能源是工業氣體的一個非常非常大的輸入因素，在這些地區是完全不同的。如果我然後說給定單位的投資可能相似，那麼歐洲在相同利潤率下的資本回報率將比其他地區高得多。看看能量如何公平嗎？

Yes. I actually would disagree with that. I think we're talking about a couple of different things here and maybe we can sort of talk about them. From a return perspective, the energy will make no difference to us, right? When we look at project investments, we look at unlevered after-tax IRRs. And as you know, in these investments, we pass through energy. So from that perspective, the energy price really does not have any bearing on how we look at cash returns. Separate and distinct, when you are in a gas region that is high energy costs that may create high inflation and hence, high pricing, to your point, and what we're seeing in EMEA is a higher pricing environment because of that inflation but also realize there is a lot higher pass-through in general, which also dilutes margins.

是的。我實際上不同意這一點。我想我們在這裡談論的是幾件不同的事情，也許我們可以談談它們。從回報的角度來看，能量對我們沒有影響，對吧？當我們查看項目投資時，我們會查看無槓桿的稅後 IRR。如您所知，在這些投資中，我們傳遞能量。因此，從這個角度來看，能源價格確實與我們如何看待現金回報沒有任何關係。獨立且不同的是，當您處於高能源成本的天然氣地區時，可能會造成高通脹，從而導致高定價，就您的觀點而言，我們在 EMEA 看到的是由於通貨膨脹而導致的更高定價環境，但也意識到總體上有更高的傳遞率，這也稀釋了利潤率。

So it tends to work both ways. When you see high inflation, you may have more pricing, but you also have higher pass-throughs which will have no effect on the operating profit dollars, will create a dilution effect on the margins. So this is a part of something we've been seeing for decades across many countries with inflation movements, pass-through movements but at the end of the day, our investment view is irrespective of energy and then the way the profile works within each segment will be a function of pricing and pass-through, but these margins we view should eventually start to converge over time.

所以它往往是雙向的。當你看到高通脹時，你可能會有更多的定價，但你也會有更高的轉嫁，這對營業利潤美元沒有影響，會對利潤率產生稀釋效應。因此，這是我們幾十年來在許多國家看到的通貨膨脹運動、傳遞運動的一部分，但歸根結底，我們的投資觀點與能源無關，也與每個細分市場中的配置文件運作方式無關將是定價和轉嫁的函數，但我們認為這些利潤率最終應該會隨著時間的推移開始收斂。

We will now take our final question from Mike Harrison with Seaport Research Partners.

我們現在將接受 Seaport Research Partners 的 Mike Harrison 的最後一個問題。

Congrats on a nice quarter. A couple of questions. First of all, in terms of concerns around recession in the U.S., you guys actually do have some interesting leading indicators that you can look at for manufacturing within the U.S. packaged gas business. I'm curious what you're seeing on the hard goods side in areas like capital equipment and robotics. Are you seeing any signs of a slowdown?

祝賀一個不錯的季度。幾個問題。首先，就對美國經濟衰退的擔憂而言，你們實際上確實有一些有趣的領先指標，您可以查看美國包裝氣體行業的製造業。我很好奇您在資本設備和機器人技術等領域的硬商品方面看到了什麼。您是否看到任何放緩的跡象？

And my second question is now that you've brought nexAir into the fold, maybe talk a little bit more about how that deal is helping to expand your footprint and drive potential synergies? And do you see further opportunities to consolidate in U.S. packaged gases?

我的第二個問題是，現在您已經將 nexAir 納入其中，也許可以多談談這筆交易如何幫助擴大您的足跡並推動潛在的協同效應？您是否看到進一步整合美國包裝氣體的機會？

Thanks, Mike. Both good questions. So let me start with the U.S. packaged gas business. And again, just to kind of recap, we had double-digit sales growth in the quarter. So that is pretty solid. Even base volumes for both gases and hard goods grew mid-single digits. Now I have to say, within the hard goods space that we did see towards the -- toward the back end of the quarter, we saw particular in equipment, which you are referring to, that growth was starting to trend down. Still growth year-on-year but starting to trend down a little bit. And I expect that we will continue to see that as we move forward as well.

謝謝，邁克。兩個好問題。因此，讓我從美國包裝天然氣業務開始。再一次，回顧一下，我們在本季度實現了兩位數的銷售增長。所以這是非常可靠的。甚至氣體和耐用品的基本銷量也增長了中等個位數。現在我不得不說，在我們確實看到的耐用品領域——在本季度末，我們看到特別是你所指的設備領域，增長開始呈下降趨勢。仍然同比增長，但開始有一點下降趨勢。我希望我們在前進的過程中也能繼續看到這一點。

So I think those -- I mean that's a leading indicator, as you've pointed out, and we're obviously watching it carefully. I'd say to you, I'm not going to try and speculate that there will be a recession or not, but I'll say to you that whatever we're seeing at this point in time would suggest and if there is a little bit of a downturn, it is going to be just that a little bit of a downturn.

所以我認為那些 - 我的意思是，正如你所指出的那樣，這是一個領先指標，我們顯然正在仔細觀察它。我想對你說，我不會試圖推測是否會出現經濟衰退，但我會告訴你，無論我們在這個時間點看到什麼，都會表明，如果有一點點的低迷，只是一點點的低迷。

But we'll wait and see what the economy really does and track that. As far as nexAir is concerned, firstly, very happy with the fact that we closed it. As you know, we announced it has about $400 million in top line. We have a great platform in our LG&E business, the Linde gas and equipment business that we run in the U.S., which manages our packaged gas to integrate onto that platform, to get benefit from synergies and particularly that part of the country is seeing a lot of inbound investment, and we see that through the nexAir footprint that we now have in the geography in Southeast U.S. as being very healthy as we see new projects emerge and that should drive growth and provide an opportunity for us to cross-sell more into the established network that already exists.

但我們將拭目以待，看看經濟的真正表現並加以追踪。就 nexAir 而言，首先，我們對關閉它感到非常高興。如您所知，我們宣布它的收入約為 4 億美元。我們在我們的 LG&E 業務中擁有一個很好的平台，我們在美國經營的林德氣體和設備業務管理我們的包裝氣體以整合到該平台上，從協同效應中獲益，特別是該國的部分地區看到了很多入境投資，我們看到，通過我們現在在美國東南部地區的 nexAir 足跡，我們看到新項目的出現非常健康，這應該會推動增長，並為我們提供更多交叉銷售的機會已經存在的已建立網絡。

As far as further consolidation, Mike, I'm all for going and getting as many tuck-in acquisitions as we can. I don't think we can do many large ones. I'd love to do them if we could. But I think between FTC and others, I don't think that's a climate that affords that. But all small tuck-in acquisitions, we continue to do -- we do a number of these every year, and I certainly expect to see as many, if not more this year.

至於進一步整合，邁克，我完全贊成盡可能多地收購。我不認為我們可以做很多大的。如果可以的話，我很樂意去做。但我認為，在 FTC 和其他機構之間，我不認為這是一種能夠提供這種情況的氣候。但是所有小規模的收購，我們都會繼續做——我們每年都會做很多這樣的事情，我當然希望今年能看到同樣多的，如果不是更多的話。

I'd now like to turn the call back over to Juan Pelaez for any additional or closing remarks.

我現在想將電話轉回給 Juan Pelaez，以徵求任何補充意見或結束意見。

Chris, nice job. And everyone online, thank you for participating. If you have any further questions, feel free to reach out to me directly. Have a great day.

克里斯，幹得好。還有大家在線，謝謝大家的參與。如果您有任何其他問題，請隨時直接與我聯繫。祝你有美好的一天。

That will conclude today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. Ladies and gentlemen, you may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。女士們先生們，你們現在可以斷開連接了。