Chicago Atlantic BDC Inc (LIEN) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Chicago Atlantic BDC quarter three 2025 earnings call.

大家好，歡迎參加芝加哥大西洋商業發展公司 (Chicago Atlantic BDC) 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded.

（操作說明）請注意，本次活動正在錄影。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Tripp Sullivan of IR. Please go ahead.

現在我將把會議交給 IR 的 Tripp Sullivan。請繼續。

Thank you. Good morning. Welcome to the Chicago Atlantic BDC conference call to review the company's results. On the call today will be Peter Sack, Chief Executive Officer; Tom Geoffroy, Interim Chief Financial Officer; and Dino Colonna, President.

謝謝。早安.歡迎參加芝加哥大西洋商業發展公司 (Chicago Atlantic BDC) 的電話會議，本次會議將回顧公司的表現。今天參加電話會議的有：執行長 Peter Sack；臨時財務長 Tom Geoffroy；以及總裁 Dino Colonna。

Our results were released this morning in our earnings press release, which can be found on the Investor Relations section of our website and in our supplemental earnings presentation followed with the SEC. A live audio webcast of this call is being made available today. For those who listen to the replay of this webcast, we remind you that the remarks made herein are as of today and will not be updated subsequent to this call.

今天上午，我們透過獲利新聞稿發布了業績報告，該新聞稿可在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到；隨後，我們向美國證券交易委員會提交了補充獲利報告。今天將提供本次電話會議的即時音訊網路直播。對於收聽本次網路直播回放的聽眾，我們提醒您，此處所作的發言僅代表截至今日的觀點，本次通話結束後將不再更新。

Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements that are not based on historical facts made during this call, including any statements related to financial guidance, may be deemed forward-looking statements under federal securities laws because such statements involve known and unknown risk and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these forward-looking statements.

在開始之前，我想提醒大家，本次電話會議中某些並非基於歷史事實的陳述，包括任何與財務指導相關的陳述，根據聯邦證券法可能被視為前瞻性陳述，因為此類陳述涉及已知和未知的風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與這些前瞻性陳述所表達或暗示的結果存在重大差異。

We encourage you to refer to our most recent SEC filings for information on some of these risk factors. Chicago Atlantic BDC assumes no obligation or responsibility to update any forward-looking statements. Please note that the information reported on this call speaks only as of today, November 13, 2025. Therefore, you are advised that time sensitive information may no longer be accurate at the time of any replay or transcript reading.

我們建議您參考我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以了解有關其中一些風險因素的資訊。Chicago Atlantic BDC 不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務或責任。請注意，本次通話中報告的資訊僅代表截至 2025 年 11 月 13 日的情況。因此，請注意，在重播或閱讀文字記錄時，時效性資訊可能不再準確。

I now turn the call over to Peter Sack. Please go ahead.

現在我將電話轉交給彼得·薩克。請繼續。

Thank you, Tripp. Good morning, everyone. During the third quarter, the results continued to demonstrate that Chicago Atlantic BDC is a uniquely positioned BDC with the experience and expertise to capture above market returns while protecting principal. We remain the only BDC focused on and able to lend to cannabis companies, together with a focus on the lower middle market commonly underserved by capital providers.

謝謝你，特里普。各位早安。第三季業績繼續表明，芝加哥大西洋 BDC 是一家具有獨特優勢的 BDC，擁有豐富的經驗和專業知識，能夠在保障本金的同時獲得高於市場平均水平的回報。我們仍然是唯一一家專注於並能夠向大麻公司提供貸款的商業發展公司，同時我們也專注於資本提供者通常服務不足的中低端市場。

We believe that this differentiation provides uncorrelated distinct credit opportunities. Net investment income per share was $0.42 for the third quarter of 2025, demonstrating the potential of the business model to generate a 12.5% yield to book value.

我們認為這種差異化提供了互不相關的獨特信貸機會。2025 年第三季每股淨投資收益為 0.42 美元，顯示該商業模式有潛力產生 12.5% 的帳面價值收益率。

For the third quarter, we are excited to announce that we executed on our pipeline and funded $66.7 million to 13 new investments, of which seven were new borrowers, which improved diversification of the portfolio and allowed us to utilize our credit facility. I'm proud to say that's a new originations record for us.

第三季度，我們很高興地宣布，我們已按計劃推進項目，為 13 項新投資提供了 6,670 萬美元的資金，其中 7 項投資來自新的借款人，這提高了投資組合的多元化程度，並使我們能夠利用信貸額度。我很自豪地說，這創造了我們新的原創歌曲數量紀錄。

I believe we're all familiar with the issues that are arising in the broader private credit markets borrowers defaulting, interest rate sensitivity, dividend coverage, and in some cases outright fraud. With our company seeming to trade as if these issues apply to us equally as well, it's worth pointing out some specifics when we say Chicago Atlantic is a differentiated BDC.

我相信我們都熟悉更廣泛的私人信貸市場中出現的問題，例如借款人違約、利率敏感性、股息覆蓋率，以及在某些情況下出現的徹頭徹尾的欺詐。鑑於我們公司似乎也同樣認為這些問題適用於我們，因此，當我們說芝加哥大西洋銀行是一家與眾不同的 BDC 時，有必要指出一些具體細節。

The public BDC industry data points that I'm about to mention are taken from Oppenheimer's Equity Research industry update as of August 20, 2025, except for the average yield which was taken from Raymond James BDC Weekly Insights as of October 3, 2025.

我即將提到的公開 BDC 行業數據點均來自 Oppenheimer 截至 2025 年 8 月 20 日的 Equity Research 行業更新報告，但平均收益率除外，該數據來自 Raymond James 截至 2025 年 10 月 3 日的 BDC 週報。

Our weighted average yield on debt investments as of September 30, 2025, was 15.8% compared to 11.4% for the average BDC. 99.5% of our portfolio is senior secured compared to other BDCs who have an average of 19.5% exposure to subordinated debt, equity, and JV investments. The balance of fixed to floating interest rates of the portfolio has improved, with 31% of the debt portfolio fixed and 69% floating, better positioning the company against a drop in interest rates.

截至2025年9月30日，我們的債務投資加權平均收益率為15.8%，而同期商業發展公司（BDC）的平均收益率為11.4%。我們的投資組合中99.5%為優先擔保債券，而其他BDC平均有19.5%的資金投資於次級債務、股權和合資企業。該投資組合中固定利率與浮動利率的平衡得到改善，其中 31% 的債務組合為固定利率，69% 為浮動利率，使公司能夠更好地應對利率下降。

We calculate that a 100-basis-point drop in rates only impacts 17% of the portfolio, which demonstrates the impact of high interest rate floors. Our unique investment strategy is focused on underserved markets, providing no overlap in investments made by any other public BDC that we are aware of. We conduct full due diligence on new credits ourselves instead of relying on underwriting conducted by banks or co-investors, and we carefully monitor the performance of each of our companies ourselves.

我們計算得出，利率下降 100 個基點只會影響 17% 的投資組合，這表明高利率下限的影響。我們獨特的投資策略專注於服務不足的市場，與我們所知的任何其他上市商業發展公司 (BDC) 的投資均無重疊。我們對新信貸進行全面的盡職調查，而不是依賴銀行或聯合投資者進行的承銷，並且我們自己會仔細監控我們每家公司的業績。

The portfolio is under levered with only $11 million of debt as of quarter end compared with the BDC average of 1.2 times debt to equity. Assuming full utilization of our $100 million credit facility during the year, we would still be well below industry averages.

截至季末，該投資組合的槓桿率較低，債務僅 1,100 萬美元，而 BDC 的平均負債權益比為 1.2 倍。即使假設我們全年充分利用 1 億美元的信貸額度，我們的業績仍遠低於行業平均水平。

Lastly, we have no non-accruals compared with an industry average of 3.5% of cost. Today we announced a $0.34 dividend marking the fifth consecutive quarter at that rate. This dividend is also well covered this quarter with net investment income per share of $0.42. As we continue executing our strategy, we'll focus on further diversifying the portfolio, utilizing the credit facility, and managing interest rate sensitivity while maintaining the overall strength of the portfolio.

最後，與行業平均成本的 3.5% 相比，我們沒有任何非應計項目。今天我們宣布派發每股 0.34 美元的股息，這是連續第五個季度維持該股息水準。本季每股淨投資收益為0.42美元，股息支付也完全可覆蓋。隨著我們繼續執行既定策略，我們將專注於進一步分散投資組合、利用信貸額度以及管理利率敏感性，同時保持投資組合的整體穩健性。

Now, I'll turn it over to Tom to discuss the numbers in greater detail.

現在，我將把發言權交給湯姆，讓他更詳細地討論這些數字。

Good morning. Thanks, Peter. I want to highlight our investor presentation that we filed with the SEC this morning that serves as our earnings supplemental. I'll start with the investment portfolio. We have 37 portfolio company investments. 24% of the portfolio is invested in non-cannabis companies across multiple sectors.

早安.謝謝你，彼得。我想重點介紹我們今天早上向美國證券交易委員會提交的投資者演示文稿，該文稿是我們的收益補充報告。我先從投資組合說起。我們投資組合中有37家公司。其中24%的投資組合投資於多個產業的非大麻公司。

The average credit investment size is approximately 2.4% of our debt portfolio. 69% of the portfolio has floating interest rates, and 58% of these loans have already reached their respective interest rate floors. The gross weighted average yield of the company's credit investment portfolio is approximately 15.8%, and all loans are performing. As of September 30, 2025, the company had $11 million of debt outstanding, all of which was drawn from the new credit facility.

平均信貸投資規模約占我們債務組合的2.4%。該組合中69%的貸款採用浮動利率，其中58%的貸款已達到各自的利率下限。該公司信貸投資組合的加權平均毛收益率約為 15.8%，所有貸款均正常發放。截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日，該公司未償債務為 1,100 萬美元，全部來自新的信貸額度。

As of November 12, 2025, the company had approximately $97.8 million of liquidity comprised of $92.5 million of borrowing capacity and $5.3 million of cash on the balance sheet, which is available to deploy. This gives us ample liquidity to deploy additional capital over the remainder of the year while remaining relatively under levered compared to other BDCs.

截至 2025 年 11 月 12 日，該公司擁有約 9,780 萬美元的流動資金，其中包括 9,250 萬美元的借款能力和資產負債表上可供使用的 530 萬美元現金。這使我們擁有充足的流動資金，可以在今年剩餘時間內投入更多資金，同時與其他商業發展公司相比，我們的槓桿率仍然相對較低。

Financial highlights for the third quarter were, gross investment income totaling $15.1 million compared to $13.1 million for the second quarter. Interest income included $1.9 million of one-time prepayment and make-whole fees from unscheduled repayments. Net expenses were $5.6 million which is net of the expense limitation agreement, compared to $5.4 million of net expenses in the second quarter.

第三季的財務亮點是，總投資收益為 1,510 萬美元，而第二季為 1,310 萬美元。利息收入包括 190 萬美元的一次性提前還款和補償費用（來自非計劃還款）。扣除費用限制協議後，淨支出為 560 萬美元，而第二季的淨支出為 540 萬美元。

Net investment income was $9.5 million or $0.42 per share, up from $7.7 million or $0.34 per share in the second quarter. Net assets totaled $302.9 million at quarter end, and the net asset value per share was $13.27, up from $13.23 in the second quarter. At quarter end, there were $22.8 million common shares issued and outstanding on a basic and fully diluted basis.

淨投資收益為 950 萬美元，即每股 0.42 美元，高於第二季的 770 萬美元，即每股 0.34 美元。截至季末，淨資產總額為 3.029 億美元，每股淨資產值為 13.27 美元，高於第二季的 13.23 美元。截至季末，已發行和流通的普通股總額為 2,280 萬美元（以基本和完全稀釋基準計算）。

I will now turn it over to Dino to talk about our origination efforts.

現在我將把發言權交給迪諾，讓他談談我們的創業歷程。

Thanks, Tom. During the third quarter, we funded $66.3 million in new debt investments to 11 portfolio companies, a record quarter for LIEN. Seven of these investments are new borrowers to the BDC. Of these new debt investments, 100% of them are senior secured and 84% are either fixed or floating rate loans at their respective floors as a quarter end.

謝謝你，湯姆。第三季度，我們向 11 家投資組合公司提供了 6,630 萬美元的新債務投資，這是 LIEN 創紀錄的一個季度。這七筆投資都是 BDC 的新借款人。在這些新增債務投資中，100% 為優先擔保貸款，84% 為固定利率或浮動利率貸款，利率以季度末各自的最低利率為準。

During the third quarter, we also had loan repayments and amortization totaling approximately $62.7 million, which included early principal payoffs of $59.6 million. As of the end of the third quarter, there was approximately $27 million in total unfunded commitments for the portfolio.

第三季度，我們的貸款償還和攤銷總額約為 6,270 萬美元，其中包括提前償還本金 5,960 萬美元。截至第三季末，該投資組合中約有 2,700 萬美元的未註資承諾。

To date in the fourth quarter, we have funded $5 million to one new borrower. We expect additional deployment activity between now and year end, but at a more measured pace than the robust gross originations activity we have seen in the last two quarters.

截至第四季末，我們已向一位新借款人提供了 500 萬美元的資金。我們預計從現在到年底，貸款發放活動將會增加，但成長速度將比過去兩季強勁的貸款發放活動更為穩定。

The pipeline across the Chicago Atlantic platform as of quarter end, which includes cannabis and non-cannabis opportunities, total approximately $610 million in potential debt transactions. The breakdown of the opportunity set includes approximately $415 million in cannabis opportunities and approximately $195 million in non-cannabis investments.

截至季末，芝加哥大西洋平台上的潛在債務交易項目（包括大麻和非大麻項目）總額約為 6.1 億美元。該投資機會細分包括約 4.15 億美元的大麻投資機會和約 1.95 億美元的非大麻投資機會。

As Tom mentioned, we have approximately $98 million of dry powder to grow the portfolio, but we will maintain our high bar when it comes to underwriting and structuring investments that deliver above market risk adjusted returns. We've had to show patience in the past when the markets around us seemed to underprice risk, and we will continue to adhere to that discipline when needed.

正如湯姆所提到的，我們有大約 9800 萬美元的可用資金來擴大投資組合，但我們將在承銷和構建能夠帶來高於市場風險調整後收益的投資方面保持高標準。過去，當周圍的市場似乎低估了風險時，我們不得不展現出耐心，必要時我們將繼續堅持這種原則。

Both the cannabis and non-cannabis verticals continue to show healthy performance in the portfolio and strong demand for new debt capital within the lower middle markets where our focus lies. As Peter noted earlier, this is in contrast to some middle and upper middle market credit lenders which are experiencing growing credit issues where there is some overlap among lenders and even certain challenges maintaining existing dividends.

無論是大麻產業還是非大麻產業，其投資組合都持續保持良好的業績，並且我們重點關注的中低階市場對新的債務資本有著強勁的需求。正如彼得之前指出的那樣，這與一些中型​​和中上型市場信貸機構形成了鮮明對比，這些機構正面臨日益嚴重的信貸問題，貸款機構之間存在一些重疊，甚至在維持現有股息方面也面臨一些挑戰。

At Chicago Atlantic, our focus has always been on building credit portfolios with attractive risk adjusted returns. We believe our approach to lending is unique, and our results thus far have highlighted our ability to create alpha in the private credit markets.

在芝加哥大西洋公司，我們一直專注於建立具有吸引力的風險調整後收益的信貸投資組合。我們相信我們的貸款方式是獨一無二的，而且到目前為止，我們的業績也突顯了我們在私人信貸市場創造超額收益的能力。

As a result of our direct origination model, 84% of our portfolio company investments are agented internally. This model allows us to be highly selective and not dependent on syndicated deals, which tend to have overlap among other public BDCs. Lastly, a rigorous approach to underwriting and structuring loans while maintaining pricing discipline has allowed us to craft a differentiated portfolio with strong credit metrics.

由於我們採用直接投資模式，我們投資組合公司 84% 的投資都是內部完成的。這種模式使我們能夠進行高度選擇性投資，並且不依賴聯合投資，而聯合投資往往與其他上市的商業發展公司有重疊。最後，我們採取嚴格的貸款承銷和結構設計方法，同時保持定價紀律，從而創造出具有強大信用指標的差異化投資組合。

Thank you for your continued support, and we look forward to updating you again next quarter. Operator, we're now ready for questions.

感謝您一直以來的支持，我們期待下個季度再次向您報告最新情況。接線員，我們現在可以開始接受提問了。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Pablo Zuanic, Zuanic & Associates.

Pablo Zuanic，Zuanic & Associates。

Thank you and good morning, everyone. Look, I mean, congratulations on deploying the large amount of new loans in the quarter, I think you said $65 million, $66 million. I guess, the question is more about the repayments of loans in the quarter, were they in line with your expectations or were there some repayments that were unexpected and did that in a way force you to be more aggressive in lending in the quarter to show some good growth if you can comment on that.

謝謝大家，大家早安。聽著，我的意思是，恭喜你們在本季度發放瞭如此多的新貸款，我想你們說過是 6500 萬美元，6600 萬美元。我想，這個問題更多的是關於本季度的貸款償還情況，是否符合您的預期，或者是否存在一些意料之外的償還，從而迫使您在本季度採取更積極的放貸策略以實現良好的增長？如果您能對此發表評論，那就太好了。

And then the second question. In the context of other lenders out there are sounding pretty bearish about the cannabis industry outlook, it seems to me that you have a more constructive view about the industry and that's allowing you to increase your book, but if you can comment on that. Thank you.

然後是第二個問題。在其他貸款機構對大麻產業前景普遍持悲觀態度的情況下，我認為您對該行業的看法更為積極，這也使您能夠增加貸款額，如果您能對此發表評論就更好了。謝謝。

Sure. Thank you, Pablo. Our pipeline is more longer -- takes a long time to develop, a long time to mature into deployment. And these are relationships that are nurtured over many months and sometimes years. And so while we had -- well we had a larger amount of repayments in Q3 than expected.

當然。謝謝你，帕布羅。我們的產品線比較長－開發需要很長時間，成熟到部署也需要很長時間。這些關係需要數月甚至數年的時間來培養。因此，儘管我們在第三季收到了比預期更多的還款。

That does not impact the pace of our deployment because our pipeline and deployment is simply not that reactive to liquidity for better or worse. I think we're extremely proud of our deployment. We executed 13 new investments. That's almost one investment per week in the quarter, to which seven were new borrowers. I think it's a testament to the work to build relationships and nurture relationships across the industry that goes back in time way before this quarter.

這不會影響我們的部署速度，因為我們的流程和部署對流動性的反應速度並不會那麼快，無論好壞。我認為我們對這次部署感到非常自豪。我們完成了13項新的投資。這相當於該季度平均每週一筆投資，其中七筆投資來自新借款人。我認為這證明了在整個行業內建立和維護關係所付出的努力，而這種努力可以追溯到本季之前很久。

With regards to our outlook on the industry as a whole, I think from the start of our involvement in the cannabis industry, we haven't viewed the industry as a monolith. That industry there, it's challenging to speak to the industry as one national industry because it's really a collection of 40 or 41 different jurisdictions in which adult use in medical markets are active.

就我們對整個行業的看法而言，我認為從我們涉足大麻行業之初，我們就沒有把這個行業視為一個整體。那裡的大麻產業很難作為一個全國性的產業來談論，因為它實際上是由 40 或 41 個不同的司法管轄區組成的，在這些司法管轄區中，成人醫療市場都很活躍。

And each of those reflects its own supply and demand dynamics, its own growth expectations, its own competitive dynamics. And our focus within each of those jurisdictions evolves over time as certain markets are growing, certain markets are declining, certain markets are facing more difficult margin pressure, and certain markets are facing less difficult margin pressure or none at all.

而每一種都反映了其自身的供需動態、成長預期和競爭動態。隨著某些市場成長、某些市場衰退、某些市場面臨更大的利潤壓力，以及某些市場面臨較小的利潤壓力或根本沒有利潤壓力，我們在每個司法管轄區內的關注點也會隨之演變。

And so I think this is where the investment in a very fulsome originations platform, a very fulsome underwriting platform pays off. It's the ability to be able to pivot from challenging markets to less challenging markets to be constantly developing relationships with the strongest borrowers possible and to maintain the broadest pipeline possible.

所以我認為，投資建造一個非常完善的貸款發起平台和一個非常完善的核保平台，就是為了獲得回報。它能夠從充滿挑戰的市場轉向挑戰較小的市場，不斷與最強大的借款人建立關係，並維持最廣泛的業務管道。

And pipeline and relationships is the lifeblood of our industry with ultimately the quality of our deployments is determined by the quality of -- our ultimate deployments is determined by the quality of the relationships that we can garner at the beginning of the process in the development of that pipeline.

通路和關係是我們產業的命脈，最終我們部署的品質取決於我們在通路開發初期能夠建立的關係的品質。

Right. Thank you for that. And again, congratulations on all the deployment in the quarter. Look, this is again, a bigger picture industry question. And I know, the bill was only signed last night, but some people have estimated the hemp derivatives industry to be north of $20 billion. I don't know if I totally agree with that number, but if that's the right number and that were to flow to the cannabis industry, that would be a big lift for the industry that we're all involved in, right?

正確的。謝謝。再次恭喜你們本季完成的所有部署工作。你看，這又是關乎業界大局的問題。我知道，這項法案昨晚才簽署，但有人估計大麻衍生性商品產業的規模超過 200 億美元。我不太確定我是否完全同意這個數字，但如果這個數字是正確的，並且這筆資金能夠流入大麻產業，那對我們所有人都在從事的這個行業來說將是一個巨大的推動，對吧？

Do you see it that way? Do you see a lot of that with -- a lot of hemp derivatives being recriminalized that type of volume flowing into cannabis players are benefiting the industry, and I know that this has just happened. But how do you think about that in terms of the industry outlook?

你也是這麼看的嗎？你是否看到很多這樣的情況——許多大麻衍生物被重新定為犯罪，這種規模的資金流入大麻企業，使該行業受益，我知道這種情況剛剛發生。但從產業前景來看，您如何看待這一點？

I think that part of price compression that we're seeing in many cannabis markets over the last year, while data is difficult to ascertain, I suspect that part of that price compression is driven by competition with the hemp derived THC markets. And so the closing of the hemp related loophole, I suspect is going to support state regulated markets and be a positive catalyst for most of our borrowers.

我認為，過去一年裡，許多大麻市場的價格壓縮，雖然數據難以確定，但我懷疑部分價格壓縮是由與大麻衍生的 THC 市場的競爭所驅動的。因此，我認為堵上與大麻相關的漏洞將有利於州監管市場，並對我們的大多數借款人產生積極的推動作用。

I think there -- I think on the flip side there are some negatives that are worth recognizing. I think that the hemp derived beverage market in particular was successful in expanding the pie and the market of users of the THC ecosystem. I think it brought consumers into the THC ecosystem that were not consumers previously.

我認為——我認為另一方面，也有一些值得注意的負面影響。我認為，特別是大麻衍生飲料市場，成功地擴大了 THC 生態系統的使用者群體和市場蛋糕。我認為它讓以前不是 THC 消費者的人也進入了 THC 生態系統。

And I think it is somewhat unfortunate that this area of the market that was not necessarily well served by dispensaries in the state licensed market won't exist anymore, but I think overall this is a -- this is -- overall it's an unequivocal positive for our target markets and for our investment base.

我認為，這部分市場（在州許可市場中，藥局服務可能並不完善）將不復存在，這多少有些令人遺憾。但總的來說，我認為這對我們的目標市場和投資基礎來說無疑是件好事。

Okay. And then one more, in terms of what you can share publicly, I know we've talked about 280 many times before. What we are hearing is that, I mean, obviously truly in their 10-Q disclose that there's a penalty being charged by the IRS, because of their uncertain tax provisions, and of course you're going to contest that. That's the only company that's disclosed that so far.

好的。還有一點，關於你可以公開分享的內容，我知道我們之前已經討論過 280 這個主題了。我們聽到的消息是，很明顯，他們在 10-Q 表格中披露，由於他們不確定的稅收條款，美國國稅局將對他們處以罰款，當然，你們會對此提出異議。目前為止，只有這家公司披露了此事。

We are hearing that other companies are starting to negotiate terms on those long-term uncertain tax provisions with the IRS, and they're beginning to pay them over time without interest, without penalties, but paying them over time. I don't know if you can comment in very general terms about what you are hearing in terms of how companies are starting to deal with paying back those long-term uncertain tax provisions that are in most companies' balance sheets. Again in terms of what you can share Peter.

我們聽說其他公司也開始與美國國稅局就這些長期不確定的稅收條款進行談判，他們開始分期付款，不計利息，不計罰款，而是分期支付。我不知道您是否可以就您聽到的關於公司如何開始處理償還大多數公司資產負債表中那些長期不確定稅收準備金的情況，發表一些非常籠統的評論。彼得，再說說你能分享些什麼。

Sure. I think our outlook and views on this are a little bit different, in that we assume that uncertain tax liabilities, unpaid tax liabilities, we view them as indebtedness that ultimately will have to be paid. When and under what terms is difficult to forecast, but we view it in no uncertain terms as a liability and obligation of our borrowers, and in our loan documents we aim to limit the occurrence of such liability as it does add ultimate risk to the balance sheet.

當然。我認為我們對此的看法和觀點略有不同，我們認為不確定的稅負、未繳稅負都是債務，最終都必須償還。何時以及在何種條件下發生難以預測，但我們毫不含糊地將其視為借款人的負債和義務，並且我們在貸款文件中力求限制此類負債的發生，因為它確實會增加資產負債表的最終風險。

And so I'm not surprised by such articles and not surprised that that companies ultimately do want to reduce the liabilities on their balance sheet because it leads to it leads to a healthier, healthy, more sustainable enterprise. But I don't have any -- I don't have additional information beyond what you've been reading, Pablo.

因此，我對這類文章並不感到驚訝，也不驚訝於公司最終確實希望減少資產負債表上的負債，因為這會帶來更健康、更永續的企業。但我沒有——除了你讀到的那些，我沒有其他資訊了，巴布羅。

Right, look -- and I apologies if there's more people on the queue here, but I'm going to ask a couple of more. Obviously because of a BDC structure you're able to lend against cash flow and not just real estate, bank loans, but a lot of these loans are to medium size, maybe smaller private companies, right? There's very few large public MSOs here, obviously Verano is a large one. There's a new loan to Cresco.

好的，聽著──如果這裡還有其他人在排隊，我先道個歉，但我還要再問幾個人。顯然，由於 BDC 的結構，你可以用現金流作抵押進行放貸，而不僅僅是房地產和銀行貸款，但這些貸款大多是給中型甚至小型私人公司的，對吧？這裡大型公共MSO很少，Verano顯然算是一個大型MSO。Cresco獲得了一筆新貸款。

I'm looking here in the 10-Q. But in general, they are mostly smaller mid-size companies in which we don't have a lot of visibility. I don't know if you want to comment on that. I mean from my perspective that would imply a little bit more risk, but maybe I'm reading it wrongly. I'm interpreting it wrongly.

我正在查看 10-Q。但總的來說，它們大多是規模較小的中型公司，我們對它們了解不多。我不知道你是否想對此發表評論。我的意思是，從我的角度來看，這意味著風險會稍微大一些，但也許是我理解錯了。我理解錯了。

I think in addition with smaller companies, we also have more leverage and bargaining power in order to negotiate greater assets of downside protection in our loans. And so with smaller companies we also find the ability to limit leverage, have greater negotiation power in structuring our loan documents, in structuring covenants, and structuring portfolio monitoring activities. And so I think we try to balance the risk of lending to smaller enterprises by -- with lower leverage with stronger portfolio monitoring characteristics, and with a very strong focus on the markets in which we're lending.

我認為，對於規模較小的公司，我們還有更大的談判籌碼和議價能力，以便在貸款中爭取更大的下行風險保障。因此，對於規模較小的公司，我們也能夠限制槓桿，在貸款文件、契約和投資組合監控活動的結構方面擁有更大的談判能力。因此，我認為我們試圖透過以下方式平衡向小型企業放款的風險——降低槓桿率，加強投資組合監控，並高度關注我們所放款的市場。

Right. Understood. That's all for me. Thank you.

正確的。明白了。我的內容就這些了。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Peter Sack for any closing remarks.

（操作說明）問答環節到此結束。我謹將會議交還給彼得·薩克，請他作總結發言。

Thank you, Pablo, for your questions, and thank you to our investors for your support. We look forward to finishing out the year on a strong note and reporting earnings in the first quarter. Thank you.

感謝Pablo的提問，也感謝各位投資人的支持。我們期待以強勁的勢頭結束今年，並在第一季公佈獲利情況。謝謝。

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議到此結束。感謝各位參加今天的報告會。您現在可以斷開連線了。