Liberty Global Ltd (LBTYK) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Liberty Global second quarter 2025 investor call. This call and the associated webcast are property of Liberty Global, and any redistribution, retransmission, or rebroadcast of this call or webcast in any form without express written consent of Liberty Global is strictly prohibited.

女士們、先生們，早安，謝謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 Liberty Global 2025 年第二季投資者電話會議。本次電話會議及相關網路廣播屬於 Liberty Global 的財產，未經 Liberty Global 明確書面同意，嚴禁以任何形式重新分發、重新傳輸或重新廣播本次電話會議或網路廣播。

(Operator Instructions) Today's formal presentation materials can be found under the investor relations section of Liberty Global's website at libertyglobal.com. After today's formal presentation, instructions will be given for a question and answer session.

（操作員指示）今天的正式簡報資料可在 Liberty Global 網站 libertyglobal.com 的投資者關係板塊找到。今天的正式演示結束後，將安排問答環節。

Page 2 of the slides details the company's safe harbor statement regarding forward-looking statements. Today's presentation may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including the company's expectations with respect to its outlook and future growth prospects and other information and statements that are not historically fact.

投影片的第 2 頁詳細介紹了公司關於前瞻性陳述的安全港聲明。今天的演示可能包含《1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案》所定義的前瞻性陳述，包括公司對其前景和未來成長前景的預期以及其他非歷史事實的資訊和陳述。

These forward-looking statements involve certain risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these statements. These risks include those detailed in Liberty Global's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its most recently filed forms, 10-Q and 10-K, as amended.

這些前瞻性陳述涉及某些風險，可能導致實際結果與這些陳述所表達或暗示的結果有重大差異。這些風險包括 Liberty Global 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中詳述的風險，包括其最近提交的經修訂的 10-Q 和 10-K 表格。

Liberty Global disclaims any obligation to update any of these forward-looking statements to reflect any change in its expectations or in the conditions on which any such statement is based. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Mike Fries.

Liberty Global 不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明以反映其預期或此類聲明所依據的條件的任何變更的義務。現在我想把電話轉給麥克‧弗里斯先生。

Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone. We appreciate you joining us today for our second quarter results call. Hope your summers off to a great start, wherever you may be. As you know by now we try to keep these calls fairly consistent, which means I've got my key leadership team on here with me, and as soon as Charlie and I finish with the prepared remarks, we'll get right to your questions.

謝謝您，接線生。大家好。感謝您今天參加我們的第二季業績電話會議。無論您身在何處，祝您夏天有個美好的開始。正如您現在所知，我們試圖保持這些通話的一致性，這意味著我的核心領導團隊已經和我一起在這裡，一旦查理和我完成準備好的發言，我們就會直接回答您的問題。

Now, we do speak from slides, and I'm going to get us started on slide 3 with some highlights. Really, I think the key messages from the quarter. And the first point should not be a surprise to anyone on this call. When you cut through it all, this management team, this Board remain 100% focused on creating and delivering value for shareholders.

現在，我們根據投影片進行發言，我將從投影片 3 開始介紹一些重點內容。確實，我認為本季的關鍵訊息是這樣的。對於參加這次電話會議的任何人來說，第一點都不應該感到驚訝。當你完成這一切時，這個管理團隊、這個董事會仍然 100% 專注於為股東創造和提供價值。

We do that through three core platforms Liberty Telecom, Liberty Growth, and Liberty Services, beginning with Liberty Telecom, where our goal is to drive commercial momentum and unlock value for you as we did with our Swiss subsidiary Sunrise.

我們透過三個核心平台 Liberty Telecom、Liberty Growth 和 Liberty Services 來實現這一目標，首先是 Liberty Telecom，我們的目標是推動商業發展勢頭並為您釋放價值，就像我們對瑞士子公司 Sunrise 所做的那樣。

I'll come back to how we might do this at the end of my remarks, but let me first make some operational comments. I think the main takeaway here is that our markets remain highly competitive with new entrants like Altnets in the UK. And low cost providers typically MBNOs impacting both gross ads and churn.

我在發言結束時會再次討論我們如何做到這一點，但首先讓我就操作方面發表一些評論。我認為這裡的主要結論是我們的市場仍然具有很強的競爭力，並且有英國 Altnets 等新進入者。低成本提供者通常是 MBNO，它對廣告總量和客戶流失都有影響。

In the face of these headwinds, our subscriber results are mixed, with some markets seeing improved churn in green shoots and others facing continued pressure in both sales and net ads. Despite these challenges, we're performing regionally well financially, delivering revenue and [EBITDA] in line with guidance expectations, and that's helped in part by price increases and strong ARPU results.

面對這些不利因素，我們的用戶績效好壞參半，有些市場的用戶流失率有所改善，而其他市場則持續面臨銷售額和淨廣告的壓力。儘管面臨這些挑戰，我們在區域財務方面表現良好，收入和 [EBITDA] 符合指導預期，這在一定程度上得益於價格上漲和強勁的 ARPU 結果。

Not surprisingly, every market is employing similar strategies to drive commercial momentum using fixed mobile convergence or FMC and flanker brands to support mobile sales, AI-based retention and marketing tools to improve churn, and speed upgrades and loyalty programs to bolster MPS and harden the base.

毫不奇怪，每個市場都在採用類似的策略來推動商業發展勢頭，利用固定行動融合或 FMC 和側翼品牌來支援行動銷售，利用基於人工智慧的保留和行銷工具來改善客戶流失率，並加快升級和忠誠度計劃來支援 MPS 並鞏固基礎。

We're also committed to having the highest quality networks everywhere we operate, and to that end, our fiber and 5G upgrade plans are on track. We've acquired spectrum in the UK, which will be very beneficial, and we recently expanded our footprint in the Netherlands.

我們也致力於在我們經營的所有地方擁有最高品質的網絡，為此，我們的光纖和 5G 升級計劃正在按計劃進行。我們已經在英國獲得了頻譜，這將非常有益，而且我們最近還擴大了在荷蘭的業務範圍。

We're also focused on monetizing these networks where and when we can. And we have both tower and fiber transactions planned for the second half of the year to support growth and deleveraging. I'll talk about those.

我們也致力於在可能的情況下將這些網路貨幣化。我們計劃在今年下半年進行塔和光纖交易，以支持成長和去槓桿。我會談論這些。

Now, moving to Liberty growth, our strategy here also remains the same. Today our portfolio is worth $3.4 billion, representing a small increase from Q1, primarily driven by additional investments in favorable FX movements, and this is a highly concentrated group of assets. I know we keep telling you that I think it's important to remind folks the top six investments comprise over 80% of the value here. Three investments in media, two in infrastructure, and that's along with our tech portfolio.

現在，轉向自由成長，我們的策略也保持不變。今天我們的投資組合價值 34 億美元，較第一季略有成長，主要受有利外匯走勢的額外投資推動，這是一組高度集中的資產。我知道我們一直在告訴你，我認為有必要提醒大家，前六項投資佔這裡價值的 80% 以上。我們在媒體領域進行了三項投資，在基礎設施領域進行了兩項投資，此外還有我們的技術投資組合。

The goal moving forward is simple. We want to rotate capital into higher return investments in sectors that have tailwinds and where appropriate, use some of that capital for creative transactions at Liberty Telecom like we did with Sunrise.

前進的目標很簡單。我們希望將資本轉向具有順風優勢的行業，並進行更高回報的投資，在適當的情況下，將部分資本用於 Liberty Telecom 的創意交易，就像我們對 Sunrise 所做的那樣。

Now our guidance for the year is to sell assets totaling $500 million to $750 million. We believe this is achievable, but of course we won't sacrifice price just to get to an end date. In other words, if it takes us into Q1, for example, that should be fine. Along those lines, we've exited our position in Vodafone, which netted around 10% to 15% of the goal. Happy to take questions about that.

現在我們今年的預期是出售總額為 5 億至 7.5 億美元的資產。我們相信這是可以實現的，但當然我們不會為了趕上截止日期而犧牲價格。換句話說，如果它能讓我們進入第一季度，那就沒問題了。依照這樣的思路，我們退出了沃達豐的股份，該股份的淨利潤約為目標的 10% 至 15%。很高興回答有關這個問題。

Now jumping into a couple of updates, I could not be more excited about Formula E's progress this season. Our London race last weekend capped off an extraordinary year. And you may have seen that we just announced an extension to our exclusive license with the FIA covering all electric single-seater racing through 2053.

現在來看看一些更新，我對電動方程式賽車本賽季的進展感到無比興奮。我們上週末在倫敦舉行的比賽為非凡的一年畫上了圓滿的句號。您可能已經看到，我們剛剛宣布將與國際汽聯的獨家許可延長至 2053 年，涵蓋所有電動單座賽車比賽。

30 years is a lifetime in this sport, especially with the step changes we're seeing every two years in the speed and performance of these cars, as well as the growth in fans around the world, which now total $400 million.

在這項運動中，30 年就像一輩子，尤其是我們看到每兩年賽車的速度和性能就會發生重大變化，而且世界各地的車迷數量也在不斷增長，目前車迷的總收入已達 4 億美元。

Finishing up on Liberty Growth, our commitment to digital infrastructure continues to expand both through investments and businesses like Atlas Edge and the value attributable to existing assets like Edge Connects, a data center platform of one of our largest and most successful investments to date. And I'll finish up on this slide.

在 Liberty Growth 的基礎上，我們對數位基礎設施的承諾繼續透過投資和業務（如 Atlas Edge）以及現有資產（如 Edge Connects，這是我們迄今為止最大、最成功的投資之一的資料中心平台）的價值來擴大。我將用這張投影片結束演講。

A few comments on our service platforms and corporate operating model. Trust me, when analysts deduct $8 to $10 per share off your stock price for this stuff, it's worth a minute or two. I'll start with Liberty Bloom, which delivers a multitude of business solutions for 36 enterprise customers, over a third of which are external to the Liberty family.

對我們的服務平台和企業營運模式的一些評論。相信我，當分析師因這些事情從你的股價中扣除每股 8 到 10 美元時，這是值得花一兩分鐘的時間。我先從 Liberty Bloom 開始，它為 36 家企業客戶提供多種業務解決方案，其中超過三分之一的客戶不屬於 Liberty 家族。

This new division is on track to exceed $100 million of revenue and generate positive EBITDA this year. I'm excited about the organic and inorganic growth plans of Bloom, which is a great example of how we're taking corporate capabilities and turning them into valuable enterprises. I can tell you, Charlie's goal is to build a billion dollar company here, to which I say, go get it.

這個新部門今年的營收預計將超過 1 億美元，並產生正的 EBITDA。我對 Bloom 的有機和無機成長計畫感到非常興奮，這是我們如何利用企業能力並將其轉化為有價值的企業的一個很好的例子。我可以告訴你，查理的目標是在這裡建立一家價值十億美元的公司，對此我說，去實現它吧。

Similarly, our Liberty Tech platform generates $475 million in revenue and has been driving ever increasing profitability over the last few years with sophisticated outsourcing arrangements. I think, we've been updating you on these, but you may or may not have paid attention. These arrangements keep our team in control of IP and product development, but they reduce our cost serve, and there could be more of these types of deals down the road.

同樣，我們的 Liberty Tech 平台創造了 4.75 億美元的收入，並且在過去幾年中透過複雜的外包安排推動了獲利能力的不斷增長。我想，我們一直在向您通報這些情況，但您可能已經注意到了，也可能沒有。這些安排使我們的團隊能夠控制智慧財產權和產品開發，但它們降低了我們的成本，並且未來可能會有更多此類交易。

Perhaps most importantly, we've been acutely focused on our own net corporate costs. Our guidance for the year was to spend a bit less than $200 million. When you'd add it all together, and we are today improving that guidance by at least $25 million as we begin to reshape our operating model.

也許最重要的是，我們一直高度關注我們自己的企業淨成本。我們今年的預算是支出略低於 2 億美元。當你把所有這些加在一起時，我們今天將把這項指導金額提高至少 2500 萬美元，因為我們開始重塑我們的營運模式。

Now this is really a good news story, and you should stay tuned for more information throughout the rest of the year. We're confident we can continue to optimize this number through both revenue generation and strategic reshaping.

這確實是一個好消息，您應該在今年剩餘時間繼續關注更多。我們有信心透過創造收入和策略重塑來繼續優化這一數字。

Finally, at the end of the quarter, our cash balance is $1.9 billion. We bought back about 3% of our shares, and depending on asset sales, we expect that cash figure to be higher at the end of the year. So with that as background, I'm going to spend a few minutes double clicking on our telecom business before handing over to Charlie for the numbers.

最後，在本季末，我們的現金餘額為 19 億美元。我們回購了約 3% 的股份，根據資產銷售情況，我們預計年底的現金金額將會更高。因此，以此為背景，我將花幾分鐘雙擊我們的電信業務，然後再將數字交給查理。

Now I'm on slide 4, which presents some key headlines for each operation, starting with Virgin Media 2. Where we're really excited to be nearing the completion of our merger with Daisy, which will create a B2B powerhouse in the UK and the second largest solutions provider to small and medium enterprises with GBP1.4 billion of revenue and even to have [$150 million].

現在我看的是第 4 張投影片，其中介紹了每項業務的一些關鍵標題，從 Virgin Media 2 開始。我們非常高興與 Daisy 的合併即將完成，這將創造英國 B2B 巨頭，成為英國第二大中小企業解決方案提供商，營收達 14 億英鎊，甚至[1.5億美元]。

As with most of our deals, synergies are substantial, with an MTV of GBP600 million, including integration costs, and that's based on an annual run rate savings estimate of around GBP70 million by 2030. So this is a great deal.

與我們的大多數交易一樣，協同效應非常顯著，MTV 為 6 億英鎊（包括整合成本），這是基於到 2030 年每年約 7000 萬英鎊的運行率節省估算。所以這是一件很棒的事。

On the mobile front, DMO2 recently closed on the purchase of 80 megahertz of Spectrum from Vodafone 3 and was following the completion of their merger and part of that deal, and this brings our share of Spectrum in the market to 30%, which is really significant. It secures our competitive position in the mobile market for a very long time.

在行動領域，DMO2 最近從 Vodafone 3 手中收購了 80 兆赫的 Spectrum，並完成了合併和部分交易，這使我們在 Spectrum 的市場份額達到 30%，這非常重要。它確保了我們在行動市場的長期競爭地位。

And then finally [Luz] and the team are hard at work driving commercial momentum, including a customer service transformation plan that has more than halved Virgin Media complaints year over year. That's an incredible achievement.

最後，[Luz] 和團隊正在努力推動商業發展勢頭，包括一項客戶服務轉型計劃，該計劃使維珍媒體的投訴量逐年減少了一半以上。這是一個令人難以置信的成就。

Also, he's been working on product enhancements like data rollover on 02 premium plans and multi-SI capabilities for the Volt proposition. There's a lot of work going on here. I'm sure there'll be plenty of questions on the UK.

此外，他還致力於產品改進，例如 02 高級計劃的資料轉移和 Volt 提案的多 SI 功能。這裡有很多工作正在進行中。我確信會有很多關於英國的問題。

So let me move to Vodafone's Zigo, where, as I mentioned, we're starting to see some green shoots as a result of management's strategic pivot in the market. I'll come back to this in the next slide. On the M&A front, the sale of our Dutch towers is progressing well, and we anticipate completion in the second half. The proceeds likely to be used to leverage the business. And finally we announced a great deal with Delta in the market, that gives us access to another 600,000 homes, greenfield homes really off net in the South. That makes us a true nationwide operator.

那麼讓我來談談沃達豐的 Zigo，正如我所提到的，由於管理階層在市場上的策略轉變，我們開始看到一些復甦的跡象。我將在下一張幻燈片中再次討論這個問題。在併購方面，我們荷蘭塔的銷售進展順利，我們預計將在下半年完成。所得款項可能用於促進業務發展。最後，我們宣布與 Delta 在市場上達成一項重要協議，這使我們能夠獲得另外 60 萬套住房，即南部地區尚未建成的綠地住房。這使我們成為真正的全國性營運商。

In Belgium, we continue to make good progress with Proximus on a fixed network sharing deal. I'll touch on this in a moment, but it's really shaping up to be a great example of regulators seeing the bigger picture on the need for infrastructure investment.

在比利時，我們與 Proximus 在固定網路共享協定方面繼續取得良好進展。我稍後會談到這一點，但這確實是一個很好的例子，顯示監管機構看到了基礎設施投資需求的全局。

Two more quick headlines here in the south of Belgium. Our launch of Base over a year ago continues to perform well and unlock 2 million greenfield homes in that part of the country. And after a material investment in 5G over the last three years, I'm sure you've been following that, it was great to see Telenet recognized by the government as providing the best 5G coverage in Belgium, both indoor and outdoor.

比利時南部還有兩則新聞頭條。我們一年前推出的 Base 項目持續表現良好，並在該地區解鎖了 200 萬套綠地住宅。我相信您一直在關注，在過去三年對 5G 進行了大量投資之後，很高興看到 Telenet 被政府認可為在比利時提供最佳的 5G 覆蓋範圍（包括室內和室外）。

So well done, John and the team. And then in Ireland we're racing towards completion of our full fiber rollout with 80% coverage expected by year end, with the balance built in the first half of next year. Both with DOCSIS and with fiber, we are the speed leader throughout the country. We recently launched Ireland's first 5 gigabit fiber broadband service.

約翰和他的團隊做得很好。在愛爾蘭，我們正在努力完成光纖網路的全面鋪設，預計今年年底將達到 80% 的覆蓋率，其餘部分將在明年上半年完成。無論是 DOCSIS 還是光纖，我們的速度都是全國領先。我們最近推出了愛爾蘭首個 5 千兆光纖寬頻服務。

And importantly, we also just added our third wholesale fiber customer in this market. So after Sky and Vodafone, and that helps to bring our utilization on the fiber network to 16%, which is great as we've just gotten started.

重要的是，我們也剛剛在這個市場上增加了第三個批發光纖客戶。因此，繼 Sky 和 ​​Vodafone 之後，這有助於將我們的光纖網路利用率提高到 16%，這對於剛起步的我們來說非常好。

And then finally we're picking up momentum in mobile in Ireland with the launch of our 15 for Life offer in May, an opportunity for us to be disruptive. Now, okay, just three more slides before I hand it to Charlie. I want to be sure that we provide a bit more detail on two significant strategic developments in the Benelux region.

最後，隨著 5 月推出 15 for Life 服務，我們在愛爾蘭的行動領域獲得了發展勢頭，這是我們實現顛覆性創新的一個機會。現在，好的，在我將其交給查理之前，還剩下三張幻燈片。我想確保我們能提供更多關於比荷盧經濟聯盟地區兩項重大戰略發展的細節。

Beginning in the Netherlands, where our last call, I think we outlined Steven and the management team's new strategic and operating plan for the Dutch market. The plans organized here on slide 5 into four core initiatives, and I'll touch on it briefly. Spices say things are coming together well.

從荷蘭開始，這是我們的最後一次通話，我想我們概述了史蒂文和管理團隊針對荷蘭市場的新策略和營運計劃。投影片 5 的計畫分為四項核心舉措，我將簡單介紹一下。香料說一切都進展順利。

Beginning with the recent implementation of a more agile operating model, and that's been characterized by exactly what you'd think you'd see, simplified processes, accelerating decision making, optimize costs, and all of that will result in significant OpEx savings, but more importantly, a more competitive posture, vis a vis KPN. Mostly, Steven has instilled a culture of winning and pride across the organization. That's exactly what we needed here. I love that.

從最近實施的更靈活的營運模式開始，其特點正是您所想的，即簡化流程、加速決策、優化成本，所有這些都將帶來顯著的營運支出節省，但更重要的是，相對於 KPN 而言，它將帶來更具競爭力的態勢。最重要的是，史蒂文在整個組織中灌輸了一種勝利和自豪的文化。這正是我們所需要的。我喜歡這個。

Second major initiative revolves around repositioning broadband pricing, which happened in April, and after one month, really a one month lag, May and June saw a 50% improvement in churn intent compared to April. That's supported by moving to a 24 month contract, but so far so good. Those are green shoots. Above all else was particularly important. To finalize a clear network strategy in this market.

第二項重大措施圍繞著重新定位寬頻定價，該措施於 4 月實施，經過一個月（實際上是滯後一個月），5 月和 6 月的客戶流失意圖與 4 月相比改善了 50%。這是透過轉為 24 個月的合約來實現的，但到目前為止一切都很好。這些都是綠芽。最重要的是特別重要。最終確定該市場的明確網絡策略。

Analysts have penalized us forever, based on what I think is a false belief that we need to build fiber here. Let me be clear. And the HFC network in Holland is incredibly robust today and capable of lightning fast broadband speeds tomorrow.

我認為，分析師一直在懲罰我們，因為他們錯誤地認為我們需要在這裡建造光纖。讓我說清楚。如今，荷蘭的 HFC 網路非常強大，未來能夠實現閃電般的寬頻速度。

So perhaps to put a pin in it, we will maximize the 1 gig speeds we have today across the HFC footprint. We will aggressively roll out 2 gigs speeds using the current DOCSIS 301 technology, and we will accelerate our upgrade of DAXAS 4 with 8 gigs speeds expected in 2026. It might also be worth reminding everyone that the cost of DOCSIS 4 in the Netherlands, including the 1.8 gig network upgrade, is 90% cheaper than building fiber.

因此，也許可以肯定地說，我們將在 HFC 覆蓋範圍內最大限度地提高我們目前擁有的 1Gb 速度。我們將積極利用目前的 DOCSIS 301 技術推出 2 千兆速度，並將加快 DAXAS 4 的升級，預計在 2026 年達到 8 千兆速度。或許也值得提醒大家的是，荷蘭的 DOCSIS 4 成本（包括 1.8 千兆網路升級）比建造光纖便宜 90%。

90%. So pretty clear decision there. And lastly, the team is reinvesting the Vodafone Ziggo's core strengths, in particular, our brands, our loyalty programs, our FMC propositions. This has come to life with things like a new Wi-Fi guarantee, the relaunch of the Vodafone brand, and a renewed investment in our flanker brand. So hopefully that gives you a slightly deeper understanding of the organic plans the team are busy rolling out, all of which have given us more optimism about 2026 and beyond in Holland.

90%。所以這個決定非常明確。最後，團隊正在重新投資沃達豐 Ziggo 的核心優勢，特別是我們的品牌、我們的忠誠度計畫、我們的 FMC 主張。這一目標透過新的 Wi-Fi 保障、沃達豐品牌的重新推出以及對我們的側翼品牌的重新投資等措施得以實現。因此，希望這能讓您更深入地了解團隊正在忙於推出的有機計劃，所有這些計劃都讓我們對荷蘭 2026 年及以後的發展更加樂觀。

And next, just a quick update on Belgium and in particular our discussions with Proximus to rationalize fixed networks. As a reminder, Proximus and fiber on one side and Telenet and Arnetco called Wire on the other side have made significant progress on an agreement to collaborate on the acceleration of fiber across Flanders.

接下來，我們簡單介紹一下比利時的情況，特別是我們與 Proximus 就合理化固定網絡的討論。需要提醒的是，一方是 Proximus 和光纖，另一方是 Telenet 和 Arnetco（簡稱 Wire），雙方已就合作加速法蘭德斯地區光纖發展的協議取得了重大進展。

And I know this has taken quite a while, but the teams have been working very closely with local regulators, the BCA and BIPT, really from the beginning. And we expect that they will launch a market test of our arrangement in September, which is really good news.

我知道這花了很長時間，但從一開始，團隊就一直與當地監管機構 BCA 和 BIPT 密切合作。我們預計他們將在九月對我們的安排進行市場測試，這確實是個好消息。

In fairness, this is a complicated deal, so the right hand side of this slide attempts to clarify for everyone what's going on here. To simplify, there are 4.1 million homes in Flanders and Brussels. About 1.4 million of those homes, or roughly 35%, are in areas that we would consider dense and urban.

公平地說，這是一筆複雜的交易，因此這張投影片的右側試圖向每個人闡明這裡發生的事情。簡單來說，佛蘭德斯和布魯塞爾共有 410 萬戶家庭。其中約有 140 萬戶家庭（約佔 35%）位於我們認為人口密集的城市地區。

And in those territories they're denoted in gray on the pie chart. Both Proximus and wire will continue to build fiber on their own and compete as we currently do. But in the balance of the market represented here in different shades of green, we will collaborate really for the benefit of consumers in the end.

在這些地區，它們在餅圖上以灰色表示。Proximus 和 wire 都將繼續自行建造光纖並像我們目前一樣競爭。但在這裡以不同綠色色調代表的市場平衡中，我們最終將真正合作，造福消費者。

In the medium dense territories representing 2 million homes or the lighter green on this chart, wire and Proximus will split the market up with Wire building 60% or 1.2 million of those homes, and Proximus building the remaining 40% or 800,000 fiber homes. But regardless of who builds where and regardless of which territories, all parties will use the same network for distribution of their services, which means that wire, for example, in those light green areas.

在代表 200 萬戶家庭（即本圖表中較淺的綠色部分）的中等密度地區，Wire 和 Proximus 將瓜分市場，Wire 將建造其中 60% 或 120 萬戶家庭，而 Proximus 將建造剩餘的 40% 或 80 萬戶光纖家庭。但無論誰在哪裡建設，也無論在哪個地區，所有各方都將使用相同的網路來分配他們的服務，這意味著，例如在那些淺綠色區域內的電線。

We have 85% utilization of its fiber network and a 100% market share of the wholesale business again on those 1.2 million fiber homes. In addition, and this was a bonus, in the 700,000 homes that are considered rural, Proximus will use and migrate their customers to our existing HFC network. So we're really excited about this transaction which improves on what is already a great story in Belgium.

我們的光纖網路利用率為 85%，並且在 120 萬光纖家庭的批發業務中佔有 100% 的市場份額。此外，這是一個額外的好處，在 70 萬個被視為農村的家庭中，Proximus 將使用並將其客戶遷移到我們現有的 HFC 網路。因此，我們對這筆交易感到非常興奮，它進一步鞏固了比利時已經取得的偉大成就。

By the way, there's some additional value creation steps for us to take here, including creating unique capital structures for wire and Telenet, bringing new equity investors into wire, and driving free cash flow at Telenet, the Servco from 2026 as CapEx starts to decline. So a lot of positive things in Belgium.

順便說一句，我們還可以採取一些額外的價值創造步驟，包括為有線和 Telenet 創建獨特的資本結構，為有線引入新的股權投資者，以及從 2026 年起推動 Telenet 和 Servco 的自由現金流，因為資本支出將開始下降。比利時有很多積極的事情。

Let me move to my last slide then, it's number 7, I believe, which is really the main message I want to leave you with today. I started my remarks by repeating our mission, so to speak, and that's to create and deliver value to shareholders. Before we spun off Sunrise eight months ago, it was valued at around 5.5 times EBITDA as part of Liberty Global.

那麼，讓我轉到最後一張投影片，我相信是第 7 張，這也是我今天想要傳達的主要訊息。我在演講一開始就重申了我們的使命，那就是為股東創造和提供價值。在我們八個月前剝離 Sunrise 之前，作為 Liberty Global 的一部分，它的估值約為 EBITDA 的 5.5 倍。

Today, as a Swiss public company, Sunrise trades at 8 times [EBITDA] with an 8% dividend yield. Now I looked at it in a different way. Prior to the spinoff, Sunrise represented about 20% of our proportion at EBITDA.

如今，作為一家瑞士上市公司，Sunrise 的本益比為 [EBITDA] 的 8 倍，股息殖利率為 8%。現在我以不同的方式看待它。在分拆之前，Sunrise 約占我們 EBITDA 份額的 20%。

Today, the market cap of Sunrise exceeds the market cap of Liberty Global, where the remaining 80% of that proportion of EBITDA resides, along with over $15 of cash and growth investments. Clearly there is a big disconnect here, and we intend to bridge that GAAP.

如今，Sunrise 的市值超過了 Liberty Global 的市值，而 EBITDA 的剩餘 80% 都歸屬於 Liberty Global，此外還有超過 1500 億美元的現金和成長投資。顯然，這裡存在著很大的脫節，我們打算彌合這一 GAAP。

Now you're probably asking the question, how do we do that? How do we continue to unlock value? Well, the simple answer is to continue separating out the parts. So we're sharing with you today that we are currently working very hard on how and when we might be able to separate out the remaining operating assets from Liberty Global.

現在您可能會問這個問題，我們該怎麼做？我們如何持續釋放價值？嗯，簡單的答案就是繼續分開各個部分。因此，我們今天要與大家分享的是，我們目前正在努力研究如何以及何時能夠將剩餘的營運資產從 Liberty Global 中分離出來。

The rationale here is straightforward. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As I just said, the opportunity to eliminate that conglomerate discount on our stock is substantial. We've shown we can do it, and we have built-in advantages to achieve that that others don't. Whether it's our silo debt structure, or our tax position, or our Bermuda domicile, or our NASDAQ listing, we have a wide menu of options available to us, including spin-offs, tracking stocks, IPOs, et cetera.

這裡的理由很簡單。這對任何人來說都不應該感到驚訝。正如我剛才所說，消除集團對我們股票的折扣的機會是巨大的。我們已經證明我們可以做到這一點，並且我們擁有其他人無法實現的內在優勢。無論是我們的獨立債務結構、稅務狀況、百慕達註冊地或納斯達克上市，我們都有多種選擇，包括分拆、追蹤股票、首次公開發行 (IPO) 等等。

On the right hand side of the slide, you'll see our portfolio of businesses and assets today, including Sunrise, which is now owned by all of us, the Liberty Shareholders. We believe that over time each one of these businesses can be tracked, spun off, or listed, by the way, in multiple combinations. Now, what's the timing here? And this is where I need to be careful, and not to be too vague, but we believe we can complete one or more of these transactions in the next 12 months to 24 months.

在幻燈片的右側，您將看到我們今天的業務和資產組合，包括 Sunrise，它現在由我們所有人（Liberty 股東）擁有。我們相信，隨著時間的推移，這些業務中的每一項都可以以多種組合進行追蹤、分拆或上市。現在，時間是什麼時候？這就是我需要小心的地方，不能太含糊，但我們相信我們可以在未來 12 個月到 24 個月內完成一項或多項交易。

Rest assured, as we get closer to definitive plans, we will surely let you know what those are. It's also important to say that these transactions are not dependent on any M&A, and that includes our joint venture markets. You can read into what I'm saying there. We don't need to consolidate to get these things done.

請放心，當我們接近最終計劃時，我們一定會讓您知道這些計劃是什麼。同樣重要的是，這些交易不依賴任何併購，包括我們的合資市場。你可以讀一下我在那裡說的話。我們不需要合併就能完成這些事。

The key takeaway is that the strategy illustrated here will not change. Our goal is to use all means available to reduce and essentially eliminate. The discount in our stock, and I'm confident that we can do that. Charlie, over to you.

關鍵點在於，這裡闡述的策略不會改變。我們的目標是利用一切可用手段來減少並從根本上消除。我們的庫存有折扣，我相信我們可以做到這一點。查理，交給你了。

Thanks, Mike. Moving on to our operating highlight slide and starting with Virgin Media 02. In broadband, despite delivering our highest market share of gross ads during the quarter, net ads saw a similar decline to Q1, and this was driven by a continuation of higher churn due to the competitive pressure in the UK market, largely from the old mats, as well as the impact of one-touch switching. Fixed ARPU was stable after four consecutive quarters of growth.

謝謝，麥克。接下來是我們的營運亮點幻燈片，從 Virgin Media 02 開始。在寬頻領域，儘管我們在本季度佔據了最高的廣告市場份額，但淨廣告卻出現了與第一季類似的下滑，這是由於英國市場的競爭壓力導致客戶流失率持續上升，這主要源於舊版墊子的出現，以及一鍵切換的影響。固定ARPU連續四個季度成長後趨於穩定。

In postpaid, the decline in net ads was primarily driven by lower value B2B disconnects in the quarter, but encouraging the 02 postpaid churn fell year-over-year, and we continue to drive initiatives to improve performance going forward and see growing momentum on the Giffgaff brand. We continued recent growth in mobile postpaid ARPU supported by price adjustments which were implemented from April.

在後付費方面，淨廣告的下降主要是由於本季 B2B 斷線價值較低，但令人鼓舞的是，02 後付費客戶流失率同比下降，我們將繼續推動舉措，以提高未來的業績，並看到 Giffgaff 品牌的成長勢頭。由於 4 月實施的價格調整，我們的行動後付費 ARPU 持續保持成長。

Moving to VodafoneZiggo, in broadband, despite the continued competitive fixed market dynamics, we saw encouraging early signs of the new strategy with a modest improvement in broadband net ads supported by lower churn through the quarter.

轉向寬頻領域的 VodafoneZiggo，儘管固定市場競爭持續激烈，但我們看到了新策略令人鼓舞的早期跡象，寬頻網路廣告略有改善，並在本季度客戶流失率較低的情況下有所改善。

On fixed ARPU, despite the front book repricing impact starting to flow through, ARPU continues to have some support from the prior year price adjustments. Postpaidnet ads were again impacted by B2B port outs, but it's worth noting that consumer net ads did grow modestly in the quarter. And mobile churn also improved, including the impact of our Bee Brand, Hollands Neuer.

對於固定 ARPU 而言，儘管前期帳簿重新定價的影響開始顯現，但 ARPU 仍然受到上一年價格調整的一些支撐。後付費網路廣告再次受到 B2B 連接埠輸出的影響，但值得注意的是，本季消費者網路廣告確實出現了小幅成長。行動客戶流失率也有所改善，包括我們的 Bee Brand、Hollands Neuer 的影響。

Turning to [Telenet], we returned to broadband net out growth supported by improving churn and some easing on the competitive front. We continue to gain momentum with bases fixed mobile convergent offering, including expansion in the south of Belgium, and we delivered strong fixed ARPU growth driven by the earlier implementation of the price adjustment across Telenet from April, which was compared to June in the prior year.

談到[Telenet]，我們恢復了寬頻淨成長，這得益於客戶流失率的改善和競爭方面的一些緩和。我們繼續透過基礎固定行動融合服務來獲得發展勢頭，包括在比利時南部的擴張，並且我們實現了強勁的固定 ARPU 成長，這得益於從 4 月開始在 Telenet 上實施的價格調整，而去年同期的價格為 6 月。

Encouragingly, we saw positive postpaid ads during the quarter, leveraging base to defend against the impact of Digi's launch in the market late last year. However, Belgian mobile postpaid ARPU remains under pressure from the competitive environment, especially Bee Brand price points in the market.

令人鼓舞的是，我們在本季度看到了積極的後付費廣告，利用基礎來抵禦 Digi 去年年底在市場上推出產品的影響。然而，比利時行動後付費 ARPU 仍面臨來自競爭環境的壓力，尤其是市場上 Bee Brand 的價格點。

And then lastly, turning to Virgin Media Ireland, broadband performance was impacted by an intensified competitive environment, resulting in higher churn during the quarter. Now despite this, our growing wholesale traffic is acting as an offset and supporting strong fiber uptake. Fixed ARPU also remains under pressure due to the pricing environment. An Irish Post-pay mobile saw an improvement in performance following the launch of new mobile offers in May.

最後，談到維珍媒體愛爾蘭公司，寬頻效能受到激烈的競爭環境的影響，導致本季客戶流失率上升。儘管如此，我們不斷增長的批發流量正在起到抵消作用，並支持強勁的光纖吸收。由於定價環境，固定 ARPU 也仍面臨壓力。自 5 月推出新的行動服務以來，愛爾蘭後付費行動電話的效能已提升。

The next slide sets out a summary of the quarterly revenue and EBITDA performance in our key markets. VMO2 reported a modest revenue decline of 0.4% on a guidance basis in Q2, which was primarily driven by lower B2B fixed revenue, whilst overall fixed and mobile service revenue remains stable.

下一張投影片概述了我們主要市場的季度收入和 EBITDA 表現。VMO2 報告稱，第二季營收按預期小幅下降 0.4%，主要原因是 B2B 固定收入下降，而整體固定和行動服務收入保持穩定。

VodafoneZiggo reported a revenue decline of 2.4% during the quarter, mainly driven by a decline in the fixed base and the impact of the front book repricing, which was partially offset by improved monetization of Ziggo Sport and the UEFA content. Telenet reported a revenue increase of 0.6%, supported by growth in both cable subscriptions at the back of an earlier price adjustment, and continued strong programming revenues.

VodafoneZiggo 報告本季營收下降 2.4%，主要原因是固定基數下降和前期帳簿重新定價的影響，但 Ziggo Sport 和歐足總內容貨幣化的提高部分抵消了這一影響。Telenet 報告稱，其收入增長了 0.6%，這得益於早前價格調整後有線電視訂閱量的增長以及節目收入的持續強勁。

Moving to our Q2 adjusted EBITDA performance, BMO2s adjusted FDA grew 1.1% on a guidance basis, supported by lower year on year operating expenses, and VodafoneZiggo's adjusted EBITDA declined 1.1% in the quarter, driven by the fixed-base decline and the impact of its new strategy and in particular the repricing of its front book. Telenet adjusted EBITDA grew 2.8%, supported by price adjustments and lower direct costs.

轉向我們第二季度調整後的 EBITDA 業績，BMO2 的調整後 FDA 在指導基礎上增長了 1.1%，這得益於同比運營費用的下降，而 VodafoneZiggo 的調整後 EBITDA 在本季度下降了 1.1%，這主要是由於固定基數下降以及其新戰略的影響，特別是其定價前賬簿的重新定價。受價格調整和直接成本降低的推動，Telenet 調整後的 EBITDA 成長了 2.8%。

The next slide provides an update on our key capital allocation metrics. Now starting from the top left, in the first half of the year, we saw cash flow generation in line with our expectations and with our full year guidance. As has been the case in previous years, we have limited cash distribution from the JBs in the first half, which tend to come in Q4.

下一張投影片提供了我們關鍵資本配置指標的最新資訊。現在從左上角開始，在上半年，我們看到現金流產生符合我們的預期和全年指引。與往年一樣，我們在上半年從 JB 獲得的現金分配有限，通常發生在第四季度。

Moving to the bottom left, I wanted to reinforce a number of midterm free cash flow drivers. Firstly, there's no expected material US tax expenses at Liberty Corporate from 2026, with the US transition tax now behind us, and that's been around $100 million a year annual headwind.

移到左下角，我想強化一些中期自由現金流驅動因素。首先，從 2026 年起，Liberty Corporate 預計不會產生重大美國稅費支出，因為美國過渡稅已經過去，而這每年帶來的不利影響約為 1 億美元。

As we noted earlier in the year, [Tex] Servcofree cash flow is expected to turn positive from 2026 as 5G and digital CapEx spend falls away. Similarly, with the significant progress made on the Irish fiber to the home rollout, CapEx is expected to fall from 2026, driving free cash flow back into positive territory at Virgin Media Ireland.

正如我們今年稍早指出的那樣，隨著 5G 和數位資本支出的減少，[Tex] Servcofree 現金流預計將從 2026 年開始轉為正值。同樣，隨著愛爾蘭光纖到府計畫取得重大進展，資本支出預計將從 2026 年開始下降，推動維珍媒體愛爾蘭公司的自由現金流重回正值。

Turning to our cashwalk in the top right, our consolidated cash balance sits at $1.9 billion at the end of Q2, that modestly from our Q1 closing balance of $2.1 billion. We saw outflows in the quarter related to continued investments in the Liberty Growth portfolio and the execution of our share buyback program.

轉到右上角的現金流，我們第二季末的綜合現金餘額為 19 億美元，與第一季 21 億美元的期末餘額相比略有下降。我們發現本季的資金流出與對 Liberty Growth 投資組合的持續投資以及股票回購計畫的執行有關。

Moving to the Liberty Growth walk in the bottom right, the fair market value of our Liberty Growth portfolio increased by around $100 million during Q2 to reach $3.4 billion. This was primarily driven by the increase in dollar terms of our largely European currency denominated investments, as well as additional investments in EdgeConneX and Formula E. Additionally, the exit of our Vodafone collar position generated around $82 million in proceeds.

轉到右下角的自由成長，我們的自由成長投資組合的公平市場價值在第二季增加了約 1 億美元，達到 34 億美元。這主要是由於我們以歐洲貨幣計價的投資中美元計價的投資增加，以及對 EdgeConneX 和 Formula E 的額外投資。此外，我們退出沃達豐領圈部位產生了約 8,200 萬美元的收益。

Turning to our Treasury updates, we maintain a strong balance sheet position with our debts split equally between bank debt and bonds. We maintain a siloed and portable debt capital structure at our operating businesses where the variable bank debt is fixed using independent swaps, allowing us to refinance the credit spreads on our near term maturities whilst also benefiting from the full term of the swaps.

談到我們的財務更新，我們保持了強勁的資產負債表狀況，我們的債務在銀行債務和債券之間平均分配。我們在營運業務中維持了孤立且可轉移的債務資本結構，其中可變銀行債務使用獨立掉期固定，這使我們能夠為近期到期的信用利差進行再融資，同時還可以從掉期的整個期限中受益。

Across the op cos and the cost of debt is around 4% to 5%, with an average tenner of approximately five years. Now, in general, we look to manage our debt maturities so there are no material refinancing commitments over the next two years to three years.

整個營運成本和債務成本約為 4% 至 5%，平均期限約為五年。現在，總的來說，我們希望管理我們的債務到期日，以便在未來兩到三年內沒有重大的再融資承諾。

During the quarter, we remained very active, completing an $850 million dollar private tap to extend the 2028 maturities of BMO2. And we also successfully completed just over $1.3 billion of debt financing for the daisy acquisition by BMO2, which closed today.

在本季度，我們仍然非常活躍，完成了 8.5 億美元的私人增資，以延長 BMO2 的 2028 年到期日。我們也成功完成了 BMO2 收購 Daisy 的 13 億美元債務融資，該交易於今日完成。

In aggregate, we've completed $5.5 billion of refinancings during 2025 at attractive spreads. We remain opportunistic and flexible in our financing approach, and we intend to continue to proactively push out existing maturities to maintain tenor.

總體而言，我們在 2025 年以具有吸引力的利差完成了 55 億美元的再融資。我們的融資方式依然具有機會主義和靈活性，我們打算繼續積極地延長現有期限以維持期限。

Turning to our guidance slide, we are improving guidance on two metrics. At Telenet, we're tightening our adjusted EBITDA guidance, which we now expect to be low single digit decline, which is an improvement and at the top end of our previous guidance range. And this has really been supported by a strong first half performance by the company.

談到我們的指導幻燈片，我們正在改進兩個指標的指導。在 Telenet，我們正在收緊調整後的 EBITDA 指導，目前我們預計其將出現較低的個位數下降，這是一種進步，並且處於我們之前指導範圍的最高端。這確實得益於公司上半年強勁的業績。

The revised guidance continues to include the tough comparator coming up at Q3. Due to the prior year having a EUR17 million one-off deferred revenue benefit in Q3 of 2024. And at Liberty Services and Corporate we're upgrading our adjusted EBITDA guidance to be around negative $175 million as opposed to $200 million. We are reconfirming all the remaining guidance metrics of BMO 2, VodafoneZiggo, and Telenet.

修訂後的指引繼續包括第三季的嚴格比較。由於上一年度在 2024 年第三季有 1,700 萬歐元的一次性遞延收入收益。在 Liberty Services and Corporate，我們將調整後的 EBITDA 預期從 2 億美元上調至負 1.75 億美元左右。我們正在重新確認 BMO 2、VodafoneZiggo 和 Telenet 的所有剩餘指導指標。

Now that concludes our prepared remarks for Q2, and I'd like to hand over to the operator for the questions and answers.

現在，我們對第二季的準備發言就結束了，我想將問題和答案交給操作員。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Robert J. Grendel, Deutsche Bank.

羅伯特·J·格倫德爾，德意志銀行。

Yeah, hi there. I'd like to ask about Telefonica's comments on the UK NETCO. So is this just not a good idea for one of the parties and that's it, or is it an idea to be debated further? Why do you think the idea has not landed in Madrid? Thank you.

是的，你好。我想問Telefonica對英國NETCO的評論。那麼，這對其中一方來說不是一個好主意，還是一個需要進一步討論的想法？您認為這個想法為什麼沒有在馬德里實現？謝謝。

Thanks, Robert. Look, and I think our partner has been pretty clear, and you can read into their remarks. They did their call the other day, around their position on the ownership of networks, the financing of networks, and so I'm not going to go back through that, but I would make this point, which is there are other ways to achieve some of the very same goals that they seem to be supported. So we have a great joint venture called Next fiber together with Inrovia.

謝謝，羅伯特。瞧，我認為我們的合作夥伴已經說得很清楚了，你可以讀他們的評論。前幾天他們就網路所有權、網路融資等問題發表了看法，所以我就不重複了，但我想指出的是，還有其他方法可以實現他們似乎支持的一些相同目標。因此，我們與 Inrovia 成立了一家名為 Next fiber 的合資企業。

Next fiber is in the midst of building, has already built over 2 million fiber homes, it's well capitalized and represents a terrific vehicle for exploring all net consolidation, for example. There's a lot of strategic and fiscal cooperation that BMO2 can do with Next fiber. So I do see us playing a role in the consolidation, which was one of the main benefits of the Netco project that we were exploring together.

Next fiber 正在建造中，已經建造了超過 200 萬個光纖家庭，其資本充足，是探索全網路整合的絕佳工具。BMO2 可以與 Next fiber 進行許多策略和財務合作。因此我確實看到我們在整合中發揮了作用，這是我們共同探索的 Netco 專案的主要好處之一。

I think they -- there is an open mind to, playing a significant role in salvation, just perhaps doing it through different vehicles and in a different manner. So -- yeah, as we get closer to having specific either transactions or structures to communicate, we will, but we have a very good dialogue on this front. I think there are many things about the Netco strategy that Telefonica would agree with and other aspects they don't. And so as good partners, we'll work to find the areas of agreement and head forward, so that's the that's the answer.

我認為他們——以開放的心態，在救贖中發揮重要作用，只是可能透過不同的途徑和不同的方式來實現。所以——是的，當我們越來越接近具體的交易或結構進行溝通時，我們會這樣做，但我們在這方面進行了非常好的對話。我認為，Telefonica 會同意 Netco 策略的許多方面，但也會不同意其他方面。因此，作為良好的合作夥伴，我們將努力尋找一致的領域並繼續前進，這就是答案。

I got it, Mike. Is the HFC upgrade, piece to the strategy still moving ahead?

我明白了，麥克。作為該策略的一部分，HFC 升級是否仍在推進？

Sure, we are upgrading HFC homes to fiber at a relatively strong clip, with economics on those upgrades looking very similar. Remember today but VMO2 has about access to about 18.5 million homes. If you include the next fiber homes in that number, and of those 18.5 million, 7 million are already -- over 7 million are fiber.

當然，我們正在以相對快速的速度將 HFC 家庭升級為光纖，這些升級的經濟效益看起來非常相似。記住今天，但 VMO2 可以訪問大約 1850 萬個家庭。如果將下一個光纖家庭也算入這個數字，那麼在這 1850 萬戶中，已經有 700 萬戶——超過 700 萬戶是光纖家庭。

So there's an 18.5 million footprint that VMO2 markets to today, of which 7 million are already fiber. It's a combination of Next fiber and our own upgrades at VMO2. So we're already a very large player in the fiber business in the UK and I expect that we will continue to get larger.

因此，VMO2 目前已覆蓋 1,850 萬個市場，其中 700 萬個已經是光纖。它是 Next 光纖和我們自己在 VMO2 的升級的結合。因此，我們已經是英國光纖業務領域中規模非常大的參與者，我預計我們的規模將繼續擴大。

Indeed, thanks, Mike.

確實，謝謝你，麥克。

Joshua Muls, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的 Joshua Muls。

Hi guys, thanks for taking the question. Coming back to slide number 7, which is a helpful outline of the rationale you're putting forward for taking more corporate action. Firstly, if you could maybe just clarify when you talk about timing in the next 12 months to 24 months. Is that focused on the Liberty Telecom assets, or could we see Liberty Growth and Liberty Services assets monetized in some way first before coming to the Telecom assets?

大家好，感謝你們回答這個問題。回到第 7 張投影片，它對您提出的採取更多企業行動的理由進行了有益的概述。首先，當您談論未來 12 個月到 24 個月的時間時，您是否可以澄清一下。這是專注於 Liberty Telecom 資產嗎？還是我們能否先看到 Liberty Growth 和 Liberty Services 資產以某種方式貨幣化，然後再轉向電信資產？

And then secondly, if I look at the telco businesses and you correctly point out that Sunrise created a lot of value. Yeah, I guess that asset has a relatively stable revenue in EBITDA growth profile, visibility on the network upgrades, and subsequent to your cash injection brought leverage down to 4.5 times.

其次，如果我看一下電信業務，您正確地指出 Sunrise 創造了很多價值。是的，我猜該資產在 EBITDA 成長方面具有相對穩定的收入、網路升級的可見性，並且在您注入現金後槓桿率降至 4.5 倍。

Given that the leverage for VMO2 instance goes somewhere above that and Telenet is in the midst of big network upgrade at the moment, how many steps do we have to go through for each of these assets before they're in a position where they could be spun off in IPOs, and do you think that leverage or operational performance is the key thing you need to get in place before you take corporate activity on the delivery Telecom assets? Thanks.

鑑於 VMO2 執行個體的槓桿率高於該水平，而 Telenet 目前正處於大規模網路升級之中，我們需要對這些資產中的每一項採取多少步驟才能將它們分拆到 IPO 中，並且您是否認為在對交付電信資產採取企業活動之前，槓桿率或營運績效是您需要實現的關鍵因素？謝謝。

Excellent questions, all of them, and I'm glad we got a chance to talk about it further. The timing, and there are a lot of -- a few issues we're trying to dance around here and our lawyers and our tax people want us to be very thoughtful about what we're committing to, what we're talking about, because these are a lot, there are a lot of moving parts here. So without not trying to be vague, I'm just trying to be careful, that's point.

這些問題都非常好，我很高興我們有機會進一步討論這個問題。時間問題，還有很多——我們正在試圖解決的一些問題，我們的律師和稅務人員希望我們非常認真地考慮我們所承諾的、我們所談論的內容，因為這裡有很多、有很多活動的部分。所以，我不想含糊其辭，我只是想小心一點，這就是重點。

12 months to 24 months seems like a window in which one or more of these ideas can come to fruition, as you rightly point out. It could be one or more assets in the growth portfolio, it could be one or more assets in the Telecom portfolio in multiple combinations depending on what makes sense.

正如您正確指出的那樣，12 個月到 24 個月的時間似乎是這些想法中的一個或多個可以實現的窗口期。它可以是成長投資組合中的一項或多項資產，也可以是電信投資組合中的一項或多項資產，根據情況可以進行多種組合。

The main message here is that we do have the quote unquote technology to be flexible in terms of figuring out which of these businesses and which of these assets presents the most realistic opportunity and the most value creating opportunities. So that's the main point.

這裡的主要訊息是，我們確實擁有所謂的技術，可以靈活地確定哪些業務和哪些資產提供了最現實的機會和最有價值的創造機會。這就是重點。

In terms of your question about growth versus leverage, I think they're both important. Sunrise, as you well know, is not a high growth business, but a very profitable business and committed to a dividend strategy that is quite popular and should be, especially among Swiss institutions. An 8% tax-free dividend yield in a market with 0% interest rates is pretty appealing. And in that particular case, it's worked well.

關於您關於成長與槓桿的問題，我認為它們都很重要。眾所周知，Sunrise 不是高成長企業，但卻是一家利潤豐厚的企業，並且致力於實施頗受歡迎的股息策略，尤其是在瑞士機構中。在利率為 0% 的市場中，8% 的免稅股息殖利率相當有吸引力。在那個特定案例中，它效果很好。

I think, the number one thing on the operational side isn't so much growth at the [EBITDA] revenue line, but can you deliver free cash? Is there a dividend strategy with the telecom asset that can support long-term investor interest from that perspective? And I think all of these assets, as you well know, the bigger ones in particularly do generate free cash. Your leverage point is also a good one. In the case of Sunrise, we did deleverage that business.

我認為，營運方面最重要的事情不是 [EBITDA] 收入的成長，而是能否提供免費現金？從這個角度來看，電信資產的股利策略是否能夠支持長期投資者的利益？我認為所有這些資產，特別是較大的資產確實能產生免費現金。您的槓桿點也很好。就 Sunrise 而言，我們確實降低了該業務的槓桿率。

Relatively materially down to 4.5 times, but it doesn't appear that investors need further delivering for that business to be attractive. So if we think that 4.5 times is a good spot, then I think we have to be creative and aggressive in how we might get there, and I'm not going to be specific on this call about ideas, but we have plenty of them.

相對而言，下降至 4.5 倍，但投資者似乎不需要進一步交付才能使該業務具有吸引力。因此，如果我們認為 4.5 倍是一個好數字，那麼我認為我們必須富有創造力和積極性，以達到這個目標，我不會在這次電話會議上具體談論想法，但我們有很多想法。

The Last point I'll make is, we can spin an entire business or track an entire business as we did with Sunrise. We can also track or spin an interest in a business. That's what I meant with my M&A comment. I'm not suggesting we would do it, but if we decided to simply, track or spin our interest in DMO2, for example, we could do that. And give investors an opportunity to own directly are the shares that we own or an interest in the shares that we own in that business.

我要說的最後一點是，我們可以像 Sunrise 一樣旋轉整個業務或追蹤整個業務。我們也可以追蹤或激發對某個企業的興趣。這就是我對併購評論的意思。我並不是建議我們這樣做，但如果我們決定簡單地追蹤或轉移我們對 DMO2 的興趣，我們就可以這樣做。並為投資者提供直接擁有我們所擁有的股份或我們在該業務中所擁有的股份權益的機會。

And now I'm not suggesting we will do that. I'm just simply pointing out that there are a multitude of options here, which in my opinion, is exciting because, we know that there is a path to shrinking that value GAAP and it's nice to have a lot of opportunities to do it in different ways.

現在我並不是建議我們這樣做。我只是簡單地指出這裡有很多選擇，在我看來，這是令人興奮的，因為我們知道有一種方法可以縮小價值 GAAP，並且很高興有很多機會以不同的方式做到這一點。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Polo Tang, EBS.

波羅唐，EBS。

Hi, thanks for taking the question. The question on the UK for looks. So if you look at Virgin Media to posted a second successive quarter of heavy broadband declines, but can you comment in terms of your view in terms of what has driven the declines and how optimistic are you that the level of broadband declines can reduce going forward? So do you need to accelerate the upgrade of the cable network to fiber? Do you need to accelerate footprint expansion with next fiber, and what have you seen in terms of broadband net ads in July? Thanks.

你好，謝謝你回答這個問題。關於英國外貌的問題。因此，如果您看到維珍媒體連續第二季出現寬頻業務大幅下滑的情況，您能否評論一下導致下滑的原因，以及您對未來寬頻業務下滑幅度能否降低有多樂觀？那麼是否需要加速有線網路向光纖的升級呢？您是否需要透過下一條光纖來加速覆蓋範圍的擴展，您在七月份的寬頻網路廣告方面看到了什麼？謝謝。

Let's go ahead.

我們繼續吧。

Yes, sure. So, I mean, so your observation is right? Second quarter we lost as much six customers as we did in Q1. The only driver for that is churn. So our share on gross sales are pretty strong, and this is the cross next fiber and our existing coverage. So we absolutely don't have a sales problem with a churn challenge. The churn challenge comes from predominantly one time which in combination with a very aggressive competitive market, right, as you might know.

是的，當然。那麼，我的意思是，你的觀察是正確的嗎？第二季我們失去了 6 位客戶，與第一季一樣多。造成這種情況的唯一驅動因素是客戶流失。因此，我們的總銷售額份額相當高，這是跨下一代光纖和我們現有的覆蓋範圍。因此，我們絕對不存在銷售問題和客戶流失問題。客戶流失的挑戰主要來自於一個時期，與非常激烈的競爭市場結合，對吧，正如你可能知道的。

Competitors are paying GBP300 to really buy a customer out of the existing contract length. And therefore, customers joint less retention, they are leaving us before even talking to us. And the reason for leaving is only one, is price. That is the only reason. So we are not losing a single customer because of technology.

競爭對手支付 300 英鎊來真正買下客戶現有的合約期限。因此，客戶的保留率較低，甚至在與我們交談之前就離開了。而離開的原因只有一個，就是價格。這是唯一的原因。因此，我們不會因為技術而失去任何一個客戶。

So what are we doing? We are -- but we have put together a very sophisticated retention machine which lets us to the fact that we have been growing up over the course of the last 18 months in this market, sitting on the highest ARPU in this market.

那我們在做什麼？確實如此——但我們已經建立了一個非常複雜的保留機器，這讓我們意識到，在過去 18 個月中，我們一直在這個市場上成長，並擁有這個市場上最高的 ARPU。

And now we have to create a similar preventing machine. Because we simply have to extend customers into customer lifetime value into new contracts, and this is what we are doing. So a significant number of customers now are sitting in a minimum contract length and also a minimum contract length exceeding six months.

現在我們必須創建一個類似的預防機器。因為我們必須將客戶終身價值延伸到新合約中，這就是我們正在做的事情。因此，現在有相當多的客戶簽訂了最低合約期限，而且最低合約期限也超過了六個月。

Your last question, how was July? Is it better? Yeah, but it is still tough, and we are not giving a guidance, as right, on six nets on a quarterly basis. But what I can say is we're getting our arms around in the prevention machine. We have more customers within the minimum contract length, and we are confident that we will stabilize the situation. Hope that helps.

您的最後一個問題是，七月過得怎麼樣？好些了嗎？是的，但這仍然很艱難，而且我們並沒有給出每季 6 個網路的指導。但我可以說的是，我們正在全力進行預防工作。我們在最低合約期限內擁有更多客戶，我們有信心穩定局勢。希望有幫助。

Great, thanks.

太好了，謝謝。

Matthew Harrigan, The benchmark company.

馬修‧哈里根 (Matthew Harrigan)，標竿公司。

Thank you. I was just curious what you see on the broadband consumption front that is driving, consumer utility and pricing power, maybe as AI agents, live sports, streaming, gaming, low lag apps. But do you see the consumers being more facile and in the use of broadband or is it fairly, plain vanilla.

謝謝。我只是好奇，您在寬頻消費方面看到了什麼，推動著消費者效用和定價權，也許是人工智慧代理、體育直播、串流媒體、遊戲、低延遲應用程式。但是，您是否看到消費者對寬頻的使用變得更加靈活，還是說這只是相當普通的現象？

And then secondly, as you're well aware, I mean, Charter, has had some post comments on DOCSIS for, really talking about some of the expensive network requirements, clearly, I guess your network topology in the Netherlands is very favorable and as people know, it's very dense population and flat topology, but it's still pretty striking that it's 90% less expensive than doing fiber all the way. It seems like a bit of an anomaly. Could you just clarify that? Thanks.

其次，如您所知，Charter 對 DOCSIS 發表了一些評論，真正談論了一些昂貴的網路要求，顯然，我猜您在荷蘭的網路拓撲非常有利，眾所周知，它人口非常稠密，拓撲平坦，但仍然相當引人注目的是，它比全程光纖便宜 90%。這看起來有點異常。你能澄清一下嗎？謝謝。

Sure, Matt, on the broadband consumption side, it's interesting, we don't have the chart here on the deck or in the appendix, but I would say consumption both on mobile and on fixed is not growing as fast as it did historically. Consumers, I'm not suggesting consumers have stopped or in any way don't have a lot of things they want to do or continue to do or do more of. It's just that whereas before we might see a 20% to 30% increase in consumption.

當然，馬特，在寬頻消費方面，這很有趣，我們在簡報或附錄中沒有圖表，但我想說，行動和固定的消費成長速度並不像歷史上那麼快。消費者，我並不是說消費者已經停止或以任何方式不再有很多他們想做或繼續做或做更多的事情。只不過，之前我們可能會看到消費量增加 20% 到 30%。

Particularly on mobile, I think the consumption patterns are leveling off a little bit. Now they might spike again. Withdraw all the reasons that you indicated, whether it's streaming or, AI apps or things of that nature, it's very possible. But, and that's a, but that's a good news story for us because it's giving us the ability to provide greater quality, perhaps invest a tiny bit less in capacity, and we'll see how it transpires, but if we're at a moment now where that rapid appreciation or increase in consumption is starting to level off just a little bit.

特別是在行動裝置上，我認為消費模式正在趨於平穩。現在它們可能會再次飆升。撤回你指出的所有理由，無論是串流媒體還是人工智慧應用程式或類似的東西，這都是很有可能的。但是，這對我們來說是一個好消息，因為它使我們能夠提供更高品質的產品，也許在產能上投資會少一點，我們會看看它如何發生，但如果我們現在處於消費快速升值或成長開始趨於平穩的時刻。

Our pricing power really comes from the quality of the network we provide and the speeds that matter, and the apps that people want to use, they want them to -- they want it to be quick, fast, lightning fast, and so that's really what they're paying for versus massive consumption or knowing even how much they're consuming.

我們的定價能力實際上來自於我們提供的網路品質和重要的速度，以及人們想要使用的應用程序，他們希望它能夠快速、快捷、閃電般快速，所以這才是他們真正付費的原因，而不是大量消費，或者甚至不知道他們消費了多少。

On the doc's for side, I'm happy to let Enrique chime in here. There are quite a few differences between the US and the Netherlands, I mean, we already start, for example, with an 862 megahertz network and getting to 1.2 megahertz is not as complicated and we will get our way to 1.8 megahertz, so the network upgrade piece of it is not in any way complicated for us.

從醫生的角度來說，我很高興讓恩里克 (Enrique) 加入進來。美國和荷蘭之間存在相當多的差異，我的意思是，例如，我們已經開始使用 862 兆赫的網絡，而達到 1.2 兆赫並不那麼複雜，我們將達到 1.8 兆赫，因此網絡升級部分對我們來說並不復雜。

And we believe we're getting access to the right equipment and the right technology on a timely basis to start trialing and rolling out sometime next year, speeds up to 8 (inaudible) gigs. Now we -- the other benefit we have, which I think charter and comcast take advantage of as well, is the ability to squeeze more capacity out of the doc [3.1] network and perhaps get all the way to 2 gig to 3 gig. And that's a pretty good number for most consumers.

我們相信，我們將及時獲得合適的設備和技術，以便在明年某個時候開始試用和推出，速度高達 8（聽不清楚）千兆。現在我們擁有的另一個優勢，我認為 Charter 和 Comcast 也利用了這一點，那就是能夠從 doc [3.1] 網路中擠出更多容量，甚至可能達到 2G 到 3G。對大多數消費者來說，這是一個相當不錯的數字。

So we're not -- we feel pretty good about the time frame and the cost envelope, which is essentially happening within our existing CapEx allocations, we don't see a massive spike in the CapEx costs here, and the -- out on the enrique, you want to add anything to that in particular or even the relative cost of fiber versus DOCSIS (inaudible) not for in the market.

因此，我們不是 - 我們對時間框架和成本範圍感到非常滿意，這基本上發生在我們現有的資本支出分配範圍內，我們沒有看到資本支出成本大幅飆升，而且 - 在恩里克（enrique）上，你想特別添加任何東西，甚至光纖與 DOCSIS 的相對成本（聽不清）不在市場上。

Yeah, nothing really too bad. I mean, we've been, together with the other cable lab members developing the technology over the last few years. We're pretty confident we've done live demonstrations, of DOCSIS for in the VodafoneZiggo network.

是的，沒什麼太糟糕的。我的意思是，過去幾年我們一直與其他有線電視實驗室成員一起開發這項技術。我們非常有信心我們已經在 VodafoneZiggo 網路中完成了 DOCSIS 的現場演示。

As Mike pointed out, we're not, going all the way from where we are today [34], we're also doing upgrades on 3.1. So we're pretty confident these numbers are accurate and as you pointed out in the question, the Vodafone Sio network is quite friendly to the upgrade, so we're certainly taking advantage of that.

正如麥克指出的那樣，我們不會完全沿用目前的[34]版本，我們也在對3.1版本進行升級。因此，我們非常有信心這些數字是準確的，而且正如您在問題中指出的那樣，沃達豐Sio網路對升級非常友好，所以我們肯定會利用這一點。

And if you don't mind, one follow on actually prompted by -- sorry. -- earlier answer, I mean, you can see in the US on Postpaid, I mean, T-Mobile is just ripping away share for various reasons, and you dominate the switching share and kind of the matrix, and it's kind of like a very happy, fluid dynamics problem.

如果您不介意的話，接下來的問題實際上是由——抱歉——之前的回答引起的，我的意思是，您可以在美國的後付費領域看到，T-Mobile 因各種原因搶走了市場份額，而您則主導著交換份額和矩陣類型，這有點像一個非常快樂的流體動力學問題。

But I don't understand with all the stresses in the UK on the economy and the financial condition of the alternates and the city fiber doing what it just did, how can people possibly be willing to pay [$300] of a customer's contract. I mean this just doesn't seem like economically rational behavior and it's not like people haven't had a lot of time to figure this out. It feels like some people are pretty slow learners here. Sorry.

但我不明白，鑑於英國經濟、替代能源的財務狀況以及城市光纖的現狀，人們怎麼可能願意支付客戶合約中的 [300 美元]。我的意思是，這看起來不像是經濟理性的行為，人們也不是沒有花很多時間來弄清楚這一點。感覺這裡有些人學得相當慢。對不起。

Especially old nets are under pressure, right? I mean, cost of capital is high, they have to refinance and investors are desperate to see higher usage of the network they have built, which is nothing else than penetration, and they don't have anything other than price, right?

尤其是老網路壓力很大，對吧？我的意思是，資本成本很高，他們必須再融資，投資者迫切希望看到他們所建立的網絡的使用率更高，這只不過是滲透率，除了價格之外他們沒有別的了，對嗎？

And so what they do is they come up with very aggressive pricing and they are buying customers out of existing contracts and if you are on your back foot, this is what you do. It's absolutely, I agree with you, it is not a long term sustainable position for the market.

因此，他們的做法是製定非常激進的定價，並從現有合約中購買客戶，如果你處於劣勢，你就會這樣做。我同意你的觀點，這絕對不是市場長期可持續的狀態。

Great, thanks, Mark. Thanks, both.

太好了，謝謝，馬克。謝謝你們兩位。

James Ratzer, New Street Research.

詹姆斯‧拉澤 (James Ratzer)，新街研究公司 (New Street Research)。

Yes, good morning, Mike. Thank you for taking the question. So the question be asking me given some hints around kind of cash flow generation for 2026, where you're kind of calling out changes in CapEx at Telenet and in Ireland.

是的，早上好，麥克。感謝您回答這個問題。所以問題是要求我給一些關於 2026 年現金流產生的提示，其中你提到了 Telenet 和愛爾蘭的資本支出變化。

So I was wondering if we could just dig into that in a bit more detail to understand the magnitude there. I think, Irish CapEx currently running around $180 million a year, pre the fiber upgrade it was at about [80], so do we kind of fall back to that kind of level and then in Telenet.

所以我想知道我們是否可以更詳細地研究這個問題以了解其嚴重程度。我認為，愛爾蘭的資本支出目前每年約為 1.8 億美元，在光纖升級之前約為 [80]，所以我們是否會回到那個水平，然後在 Telenet 也是如此。

Because we, I mean, you're saying that's going to go to free cash positive in the serve code, but we don't have guidance on the Netco. So I think, total CapEx this is for Telenet's going to be around $1.1 billion. Where do you see that going to next year?

因為我們，我的意思是，你說這將在服務代碼中轉化為免費現金，但我們沒有關於 Netco 的指導。所以我認為，Telenet 的總資本支出將在 11 億美元左右。您認為明年會怎樣？

Well, I appreciate the question. And those are good ones. I'm pretty sure we're not going to be able to give you guidance for 2026 on this call, but Charlie, do you want to manage that?

嗯，我很感謝你的提問。這些都是很好的。我很確定我們無法在這次電話會議上為您提供 2026 年的指導，但是查理，您想管理這個嗎？

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I'm afraid it's almost like saying give us guidance to '26, it's just too early. I do understand why you'd want to know that, but, we have to be allowed to go through our planning process, but what we can say is that certainly the case of the Telenet circle, which I agree we haven't clearly, showing the separation that's one of the things might reference in his slides. We have seen the peak level of CapEx, particularly on 5G and also on digital, so there should be a positive free cash flow profile, from next year onwards.

是的，我的意思是，說實話，恐怕這幾乎就像是說給我們 26 年的指導，現在還為時過早。我確實明白你為什麼想知道這一點，但是，我們必須被允許完成我們的規劃過程，但我們可以說的是，當然是 Telenet 圈的情況，我同意我們還沒有清楚地表明分離是他在幻燈片中可能會提到的事情之一。我們已經看到資本支出達到峰值，特別是在 5G 和數位領域，因此從明年開始應該會出現積極的自由現金流狀況。

Same with Ireland.

愛爾蘭也一樣。

Sorry, I was just going to say another way you say 5G digital CapEx fall. I mean, how much should that fall by if you're willing to make the comment in the presentation on Irish FTTH?

抱歉，我只是想用另一種方​​式來表達您所說的 5G 數位資本支出下降。我的意思是，如果您願意在有關愛爾蘭 FTTH 的演示中發表評論，那麼這個數字應該會下降多少？

Yeah, we're not going to give you the specifics. I mean, these are directional statements. We clearly understand why you want them and we're not trying to duck it, but, you have to understand we've established a principle of not giving forward guidance in the middle of the summer for the following year. We have to be allowed to go through our processes and make some strategic decisions as well.

是的，我們不會告訴你具體細節。我的意思是，這些都是方向性的陳述。我們清楚地理解您為什麼想要它們，我們也不想迴避它，但是，您必須明白，我們已經制定了一項原則，即在夏季中旬不提供下一年的前瞻性指引。我們必須被允許完成我們的流程並做出一些戰略決策。

Got it. Okay, thank you.

知道了。好的，謝謝。

David Wright, Bank of America.

美國銀行的戴維·賴特。

Yeah, hi, guys. So I guess just following on from Josh's question, I believe it was and your answer, Mike, I'm just trying to think about these opportunities for tracking, spinning, IPO or revolutions of that. You did mention, I think, Mike, that maybe analysts were, not recognizing or penalizing you guys, on the sort of cable side of networks versus fiber.

是的，大家好。所以我想繼續 Josh 的問題，我相信這是你的答案，Mike，我只是在嘗試思考這些跟踪、旋轉、IPO 或革命的機會。麥克，我想你確實提到過，也許分析師沒有認可你們，或者在網路的有線方面和光纖方面對你們進行懲罰。

I'm just thinking it was clear, and you alluded to this, that the Sunrise asset always had a real fighting chance because of the interest rate environment in in Switzerland, but that is quite unique. Why do you think analysts would value any of the other assets, any differently from where Liberty Global is currently. I appreciate that the market's a lot smarter than analysts. I'm not going to argue that one.

我只是認為，很明顯，正如您所提到的，由於瑞士的利率環境，日出資產始終具有真正的競爭機會，但這非常獨特。您認為分析師對其他資產的估值為何會與 Liberty Global 目前的估值有所不同？我很欣賞市場比分析師聰明得多。我不想爭論這一點。

But what do you think creates value when these assets come out of the Liberty Global Group? Is it maybe just that, a lot more European PMs can buy them within their mandate? Is just a technical kind of opportunity there instead of buying the US list? But what gives you confidence that the markets would value these assets any higher than they currently are in the Liberty Global Group?

但是，您認為當這些資產脫離自由全球集團時，會創造什麼價值呢？是不是只是更多的歐洲總理可以在其任期內購買它們？除了購買美國名單之外，這是否只是一種技術機會？但是，什麼讓您有信心市場對這些資產的估值會高於自由全球集團目前的估值呢？

I think it's a few things, David, I think it's a few things. Number one, you pointed to, this, there is a demand among European institutions to own either pure play or local telecom assets. You see that across the Board. As a NASDAQ listed company, we're able to attract some of those investors. But many don't look at it either because it's perceived to be offshore, not on shore, or perhaps has a layer of complexity that makes it challenging for them to assess value.

我認為有幾件事，大衛，我認為有幾件事。首先，正如您所指出的，歐洲機構需要擁有純粹的或本地的電信資產。你可以在各個方面看到這一點。作為一家納斯達克上市公司，我們能夠吸引一些投資者。但許多人並不關注它，因為人們認為它是在離岸，而不是在岸，或者它可能具有一定的複雜性，使他們難以評估其價值。

But when you can create a pure play Telecom as that as we did in Switzerland, I think number one, you start to look at peers more in a different light. While Swiss com is an excellent tier, KPN might be even better, trade to 9 times, even and when you line VodafoneZiggo up to KPN on almost any operating metric when it comes to physicals or financials, it looks pretty good.

但是，當你能夠像我們在瑞士那樣創建一家純粹的電信公司時，我認為，首先，你會開始以不同的眼光看待同行。雖然瑞士電信處於優秀水平，但 KPN 可能表現更佳，交易額達到 9 倍，甚至當您在幾乎所有營運指標上將 VodafoneZiggo 與 KPN 進行比較時，當涉及到實物或財務數據時，它看起來相當不錯。

What are the differences? The difference of the balance sheet, of course, you've already raised that point, leverage, and squeezing free cash flow out of the out of the operations. And I think, if those are the only two hurdles to a higher multiple on VodafoneZiggo, for example, as a pure play standalone business, I'm pretty sure we can find a way to improve that.

有什麼區別？當然，您已經提到了資產負債表的差異、槓桿以及從營運中擠出自由現金流。我認為，如果這些是 VodafoneZiggo 作為純粹的獨立企業實現更高倍數的唯一兩個障礙，那麼我確信我們可以找到一種方法來改善這一點。

Second big difference is investors in Europe, and investors of European telecom assets like dividends, clearly, and that's most of our peers, if not all of our peers, a large dividend. The Sunrise is demonstrating that an 8% dividend yield, even with that higher yield, it's trading at a great multiple.

第二個主要區別是歐洲的投資者，歐洲電信資產的投資者顯然喜歡股息，而我們的大多數同行，即使不是所有同行，也都喜歡大額股息。Sunrise 顯示出 8% 的股息收益率，即使收益率更高，其交易價格也很高。

I think the dividend yield at KPM is maybe 5%. So can you generate enough free cash in these businesses to adopt a capital markets strategy or a balance sheet strategy that delivers dividends to investors on a reasonable, predictable long-term basis.

我認為 KPM 的股息殖利率大概是 5%。那麼，你能否在這些業務中產生足夠的自由現金來採用資本市場策略或資產負債表策略，以合理、可預測的長期方式向投資者提供股息。

Those are not hard equations to solve when you have stable businesses as we do. I understand it's not immediately obvious how we do those things, but trust me when I say that to put a slide like this up on the screen implies we believe we have a path in each of these instances, to create a story that will be -- should be appealing to investors, and that's how I'd leave it.

當你像我們一樣擁有穩定的業務時，這些問題並不難解決。我知道我們做這些事情的方式並不是顯而易見的，但請相信我，將這樣的幻燈片放在螢幕上意味著我們相信在每種情況下我們都有一條路徑，可以創造一個對投資者有吸引力的故事，這就是我要說的。

No, it's interesting, Mike. Thanks.

不，這很有趣，麥克。謝謝。

You got it.

你明白了。

Carl McDart Smith, Citigroup.

花旗集團的卡爾·麥克達特·史密斯。

That's great. Thank you very much. I was just wondering if you could expand a little bit more and talk about your turnarounds in [Boddigo] and early evidence, both competitively and operationally in terms of how that's going, wondering if you could talk a bit more. Thank you.

那太棒了。非常感謝。我只是想知道您是否可以再詳細一點，談談您在 [Boddigo] 方面的轉變以及早期證據，包括競爭力和運營方面的進展情況，想知道您是否可以多談一點。謝謝。

Sure, I'll let Steven do that. We did, I don't know if you were on for the remarks, but there's a whole slide in the deck on this, but Steven, why don't you add some more to that.

當然，我會讓史蒂文來做。我們確實這樣做了，我不知道您是否在場，但幻燈片上有一整張有關此內容的幻燈片，但是史蒂文，為什麼不補充一些內容呢？

I think this slide that you published Mike, earlier in the slide deck is probably the best summary of it. So we've got four specific areas that we've looked at as an organ as I came into the organization. We've tucked in behind each of those four. We've reset our organizational model. It gave us an opportunity to take some costs out as well, which we needed to do.

我認為 Mike 您之前在幻燈片中發布的這張投影片可能是對此最好的總結。因此，當我加入該組織時，我們作為一個機構專注於了四個特定領域。我們緊跟在後。我們已經重置了我們的組織模式。這也給了我們一個削減一些成本的機會，這是我們需要做的。

Specifically pointed at, being more aggressive in the marketplace. I think over the last couple of years, we've taken a step back from that. Secondly, as part of that, getting broadband pricing right for the market, I think we're at a kilter with the marketplace, and getting that, as a first step right was important.

具體來說，在市場上更加積極主動。我認為在過去的幾年裡，我們已經退後了一步。其次，作為其中的一部分，讓寬頻定價適合市場，我認為我們與市場是一致的，而第一步做好這一點非常重要。

Like loots tackling the churn problem. We don't have a gross ads problem either. We have a churn problem. Part of the solution set there was, fixing our pricing, but also fixing our trading practices and our contracting. You are seeing the green shoots, May and June were pleasing to us, having -- implemented much of this In April or May, the overhang of, are we a good enough, broadband network. We've taken away. We're fully backed the plan to roll off, to roll out HFC. We've got an aggressive plan. I think over the next 18 months to land that.

就像解決客戶流失問題的戰利品。我們也沒有嚴重的廣告問題。我們有一個客戶流失問題。解決方案的一部分是確定我們的定價，同時也確定我們的貿易慣例和合約。您看到的是綠芽，五月和六月令我們感到高興，我們已經實施了其中的大部分內容，在四月或五月，我們面臨的問題是，我們的寬頻網路是否足夠好。我們已經拿走了。我們全力支持推出 HFC 的計畫。我們有一個積極的計劃。我認為在接下來的 18 個月內就能實現這一目標。

And then I think we were short on marketing. We were short on positioning as a brand, where it needed to be back in the connectivity world. We were short on investing in FMC, which you'll see coming soon. And we think there's a great opportunity for us to attack with Holland (inaudible) We think there's a market space for us to go after that.

然後我認為我們在行銷方面有所欠缺。我們缺乏品牌定位，無法讓它重回連結世界。我們對 FMC 的投資不足，您很快就會看到這一點。我們認為，我們有很大機會與荷蘭（聽不清楚）合作，我們認為我們有市場空間可以開拓。

So I think just tightening everything up, being more focused, and bringing organization behind a plan that puts us -- as I said, on the front foot, and in the attack, and that's where we are today, and you'll see more from us over the next 12 months.

所以我認為，只要把一切都安排好，更加專注，並組織好計劃，讓我們——正如我所說的，處於主動地位，處於進攻狀態，這就是我們今天所處的位置，在接下來的 12 個月裡，你會看到我們取得更多成績。

That's great, thank you. And then just as a follow up, just, looking at the voluntary redundancy scheme that was announced, the other day, and then also the improvements in the services and corporates guidance today, should we be drawing a line between those two things or not. And given the timing within the year, could that potentially mean that next year could see further improvements within that kind of services and corporate EBITDA line?

太好了，謝謝。然後作為後續行動，看看前幾天宣布的自願裁員計劃，以及今天服務和企業指導的改進，我們是否應該在這兩者之間劃清界限。考慮到今年的時間表，這是否意味著明年此類服務和企業 EBITDA 業務將進一步改善？

Thanks. Yeah, I want to be really thoughtful on commenting on internal restructuring or employee matters, as they should be that that article was obviously not authorized by us, but suffice to say at the trajectory we're trying to illustrate here is a good one. And there are lots of tools in the toolbox to ensure and deliver an operating structure. That is more flexible and more aligned and fit for purpose.

謝謝。是的，我希望在評論內部重組或員工問題時認真考慮，因為他們應該認為那篇文章顯然沒有得到我們的授權，但可以說，我們試圖在這裡說明的軌跡是好的。工具箱中有很多工具可以確保和交付操作結構。這更加靈活、更加一致並且更適合目的。

All that really means is, yes, I think you can assume that over time, we will be through either new revenue sources or new operating models, we will be providing to you guidance for that number, which is lower and lower and lower.

這實際上意味著，是的，我認為你可以假設隨著時間的推移，我們將透過新的收入來源或新的營運模式，我們將為你提供這個數字的指導，這個數字會越來越低。

So I do think if you're one of those analysts that puts a big multiple on it, I would get the pencil out, start determining on your own what that number could be, might be, and hopefully that's a tailwind to your target price.

因此，我確實認為，如果你是那些對其估值較高的分析師之一，我會拿出鉛筆，開始自己確定這個數字可能是多少，希望這對你的目標價有幫助。

That's great. Thanks, Mike.

那太棒了。謝謝，麥克。

You have time for maybe one or two more.

您也許還有時間再做一兩件事。

Stephen Malcolm, Russ trial and Company Redburn.

史蒂芬·馬爾科姆、拉斯·特賴爾和雷德伯恩公司。

Yeah, hi there. I want to come back to the UK and maybe a sort of slightly less your question, but clearly your turn is a problem. Part of that, I guess, has always stemmed from the fact that you don't cover the entire UK and it seems like your ambitions to do so have slowed a bit in the last 12 months. I mean, next fiber is being thoughtful, I guess, on whether to deploy fiber in areas where there are already two providers.

是的，你好。我想回到英國，也許你的問題稍微少一點，但顯然你的轉變是一個問題。我想，部分原因在於你們沒有涵蓋整個英國，而且似乎你們這樣做的雄心壯志在過去 12 個月裡有所放緩。我的意思是，我想，Next Fiber 正在考慮是否在已經有兩家供應商的地區部署光纖。

You talked about that consolidation, I guess it's a kind of two-part question. One is it something you give a lot of thought to is how you bridge that GAAP. Openreach covers [30 million] lines, you cover [18 million]. And then secondly, how do you think about the op opportunity of bridging that GAAP?

您談到了合併，我想這是一個由兩部分組成的問題。一是你要認真思考如何實現 GAAP。Openreach 涵蓋 [3000 萬] 條線路，您覆蓋[1800萬]其次，您如何看待跨越 GAAP 的營運機會？

And would you consider -- you haven't wholesale from Openreach for a while, but it seems a pretty obvious that, given the mismatch between your fix and your mobile footprints to do so, just to sort of expand your addressable market and possibly deal with some of those churn. Natural churn impediments you face, just curious to know your thoughts on that.

您是否考慮過——您已經有一段時間沒有從 Openreach 進行批發了，但考慮到您的解決方案和移動足跡之間的不匹配，這樣做似乎很明顯，只是為了擴大您的目標市場並可能處理其中的一些客戶流失。您面臨的自然流失障礙，只是好奇想知道您對此的想法。

Thanks, Steve. It's the right question and it's a good one. As you point out, we do reach 18.5 million homes, it's not the entire marketplace. Obviously, we do look at other means of reaching, another 10 million homes, let's say.

謝謝，史蒂夫。這是正確的問題，也是個好問題。正如您所指出的，我們的業務確實涵蓋了 1850 萬戶家庭，但這並不是整個市場。顯然，我們確實在尋找其他途徑來覆蓋另外 1000 萬戶家庭。

And I'm not going to be specific on this call except to say it is the right long-term strategic move for VMO2 to be a national player on fixed as it is in mobile. How we get there, with whom we get there, those are, more technical questions which I'm not going to get into this morning, but you're right to ask us about it and we see it similarly.

我不會在這次電話會議上具體說明，只想說，對於 VMO2 來說，成為固定和移動領域的全國性參與者是正確的長期戰略舉措。我們如何實現這一目標，與誰一起實現這一目標，這些都是技術性更強的問題，我今天早上不會討論這些問題，但你問我們這個問題是對的，我們也有類似的看法。

Okay, so, but -- and all options are on the table, Mike, in your consideration, is that fair?

好的，但是——所有選項都在考慮範圍內，麥克，在你看來，這公平嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yeah, thank you.

是的，謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

One more question, operator.

還有一個問題，接線生。

Ulrich Rathe, Bernstein's Associate General Group.

伯恩斯坦副總經理 Ulrich Rathe。

Thank you, Mike. My questions, most of my questions have been answered. So let me ask this. Mike, I think in your prepared remarks, you said you would actually frame the exit from Vodafone but maybe I missed it, but -- could you just frame that for us a little bit? How you look at what happened there, why you exited at this point in time and give us context. Thank you.

謝謝你，麥克。我的問題，我的大部分問題都已得到解答。所以讓我問一下。麥克，我想在你準備好的發言中，你說過你會真正闡述退出沃達豐的計劃，但我可能錯過了，但是——你能為我們稍微闡述一下嗎？您如何看待那裡發生的事情，為什麼您此時退出並給我們提供背景資訊。謝謝。

Sure, and I will say right up front, I don't necessarily. We want you to assume that the reason we've exited the position is because we don't have faith in the stock or margarita. That's not the case. We just have to look at what's the best use of our capital. We had really limited exposure to the stock given the color structure of the position anyway, and there was not much strategic value in the end to the position. So I think it's the right move for us to put our capital into the best possible use and in this case, I don't think that long term holding was achieving that. So that's really the only color I can give you on that.

當然，我首先要說的是，我不一定會如此。我們希望您認為我們退出該頭寸的原因是我們對股票或瑪格麗塔酒沒有信心。事實並非如此。我們只需要考慮如何最好地利用我們的資本。無論如何，考慮到部位的顏色結構，我們對該股票的曝險確實有限，而且該部位最終也沒有太多的戰略價值。因此，我認為將我們的資本用在最合適的地方是正確的舉措，但在這種情況下，我認為長期持有並不能實現這一點。所以這確實是我能給你的唯一解釋。

-- when you actually bought it.

——當您真正購買它時。

Not necessarily. I think we didn't know at the time what the future held. We were optimistic perhaps that there might be more tailwinds and a different result, but in the end, we just like you, we have to make decisions about our where we put our cash every day, and this is just a decision that would put more in that category than any sort of long-term strategic view of Vodafone as a company.

未必。我想我們當時並不知道未來會發生什麼事。我們可能樂觀地認為可能會有更多的順風和不同的結果，但最終，我們就像你們一樣，我們必須決定每天把現金投向何處，而這個決定比沃達豐作為一家公司的任何長期戰略觀點都更符合這一類別。

Anyway, I appreciate everybody joining the call. We're at the hour here. The markets are challenging. You got that message, but we are not sitting still and the management teams you're listening to here really are on their game, investing, innovating, winning, and lastly, just our value creation is our North star, we like to say, right?

無論如何，我感謝大家參加這次電話會議。我們這裡正值這個時間。市場充滿挑戰。您已經明白這個意思了，但我們並沒有停滯不前，您在這裡聽到的管理團隊確實在全力以赴，投資、創新、取勝，最後，我們喜歡說，我們的價值創造就是我們的北極星，對吧？

So it's shareholders turns here to try to see that value creation realized. We got a lot of optionality, as you pointed out. We will look for the executable strategies and communicate those when they become executable and clear, and whether we succeed in those or not, they will lead to outcomes, which I think is exactly what we need to do here. So one way or the other, it we we're really confident about the opportunity to create value for you. Hope you have a great summer and thanks for joining everybody.

因此，股東開始嘗試實現價值創造。正如您所指出的，我們有很多選擇。我們將尋找可執行的策略，並在這些策略變得可執行且清晰時進行溝通，無論我們是否成功，它們都會帶來成果，我認為這正是我們需要做的。因此，無論如何，我們都對為您創造價值的機會充滿信心。希望您度過一個愉快的夏天並感謝大家的加入。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes Liberty Global second quarter 2025 investor calls. As a reminder, a replay of the call will be available in the investor relations section of Liberty Global's website. There you can also find a copy of today's presentation materials.

女士們、先生們，Liberty Global 2025 年第二季投資人電話會議到此結束。提醒一下，Liberty Global 網站的投資者關係部分將提供此電話會議的重播。您還可以在那裡找到今天的演示材料的副本。