Liberty Global Ltd (LBTYB) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Liberty Global's third quarter 2024 investor call. This call and the associated webcast are the property of Liberty Global, and any redistribution, retransmission or rebroadcast of this call or webcast in any form without the expressed written consent of Liberty Global is strictly prohibited. (Operator Instructions) Today's formal presentation materials can be found under the Investor Relations section of Liberty Global's website at libertyglobal.com.

女士們、先生們，早安，謝謝大家的支持。歡迎參加 Liberty Global 2024 年第三季投資者電話會議。本次電話會議及相關網路廣播歸 Liberty Global 所有，未經 Liberty Global 明確書面同意，嚴禁以任何形式重新分發、重新傳播或重新廣播本次電話會議或網路廣播。（操作員指示）今天的正式簡報資料可以在 Liberty Global 網站 libertyglobal.com 的投資者關係部分找到。

After today's formal presentation, instructions will be given for a question-and-answer session. Page 2 of the slides details the company's safe harbor statement regarding forward-looking statements. Today's presentation may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including the company's expectations with respect to its outlook and future growth prospects and other information and statements that are not historical facts.

今天的正式演講結束後，將給予問答環節的說明。投影片的第 2 頁詳細介紹了公司關於前瞻性陳述的安全港聲明。今天的演示可能包含《1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法》所定義的前瞻性陳述，包括公司對其前景和未來成長前景的預期以及其他非歷史事實的資訊和陳述。

These forward-looking statements involve certain risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these statements. These risks include those detailed in Liberty Global's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its most recently filed Forms 10-Q and 10-K as amended. Liberty Global disclaims any obligation to update any of these forward-looking statements to reflect any change in its expectations or any conditions on which any such statement is based.

這些前瞻性陳述涉及某些風險，可能導致實際結果與這些陳述表達或暗示的結果有重大差異。這些風險包括 Liberty Global 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中詳述的風險，包括其最近提交的經修訂的 10-Q 表和 10-K 表。Liberty Global 不承擔更新任何這些前瞻性陳述以反映其預期或此類陳述所依據的任何條件的任何變更的義務。

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Mike Fries.

現在我想將電話轉給麥克·弗里斯先生。

Hello, everyone, and thanks for joining us today. As usual, we've got a lot of ground to cover and some pretty positive developments in our strategic plans to discuss with you. I'm going to kick it off with a handful of slides and then turn it over to Charlie to review our financial results. Of course, after that, we'll get to your questions, and I've got the full management team online with me today who will chime in as needed.

大家好，感謝大家今天加入我們。像往常一樣，我們有很多內容需要討論，我們的策略計劃中也有一些非常積極的進展需要與您討論。我將用幾張幻燈片開始會議，然後將其交給查理來審查我們的財務結果。當然，在那之後，我們會回答您的問題，今天我的整個管理團隊都會在線，他們會根據需要提供意見。

So let me start on the first slide with some Q3 highlights. I think as you'll see, while we had a good operational quarter, this update here focuses entirely on our strategic plans since there's really nothing more important right now than the work we're doing to drive value recognition in our share price. I'm sure you'd all agree.

那麼，讓我從第一張投影片開始介紹第三季的一些亮點。我想正如你所看到的，雖然我們有一個良好的營運季度，但這裡的更新完全關注我們的策略計劃，因為現在沒有什麼比我們為推動股價價值認可所做的工作更重要的了。我確信你們都會同意的。

In February, we announced a handful of initiatives to do just that, and we've made substantial progress on each of them. By far, the most impactful today is the pending spinoff of our Swiss subsidiary, Sunrise, which is now scheduled for November 12 after 99% approval of the transaction at our EGM last week. I'm sure you're all following this, but the average analyst today has an CHF8.2 billion enterprise value on Sunrise.

今年二月，我們宣布了一些實現這一目標的舉措，並且每一項都取得了實質進展。到目前為止，今天影響最大的是我們的瑞士子公司 Sunrise 即將進行的分拆，該交易在上週的特別股東大會上獲得 99% 的批准，目前定於 11 月 12 日進行。我相信大家都在關注這一點，但如今平均每位分析師對 Sunrise 的企業價值為 82 億瑞士法郎。

After adjustments for reduced debt levels, that results in the CHF3.6 billion equity value, which is $4.2 billion or roughly $12 per Liberty share. That valuation is underpinned by several factors, not the least of which is the intention to pay a $240 million tax advantaged dividend in mid-2025 and a progressive dividend policy thereafter.

經過降低債務水準進行調整後，其股權價值為 36 億瑞士法郎，相當於 42 億美元，或每股 Liberty 股票約 12 美元。該估值受多種因素支撐，其中最重要的因素是該公司計劃在 2025 年中期支付 2.4 億美元的稅收優惠股息，並隨後實施漸進式股息政策。

It's also important to point out that despite theoretically representing nearly 60% of our stock price today, according to analysts, Sunrise only represents 20% of our proportionate EBITDA in what we now call our Telecom Group, and that's before any value is attributed to our cash balance and our growth portfolio. And more on all of this in a moment.

還需要指出的是，儘管理論上 Sunrise 占我們目前股價的近 60%，但根據分析師的說法，它只占我們目前所謂的電信集團按比例計息稅折舊攤銷前利潤的 20%，而且這還未計入我們的現金餘額和增長投資組合的價值。稍後我們將對此進行更詳細的介紹。

In the UK, we continue to make progress on our plans to create and finance the UK's second largest fixed network company, or NetCo, fueled by an existing footprint of 17.8 million 1-gig homes, 5.6 million of which are already full fiber. I think anyone following the UK market today would know that quarter-by-quarter, things are slowly rationalizing on both fixed and mobile networks. An increasing number of altnets are beginning to either consolidate, seek recapitalization or shut down. Importantly, in this context, Virgin Media-O2 added broadband subs in the quarter and continues to grow ARPU on its fixed base.

在英國，我們繼續推進創建和資助英國第二大固定網路公司（NetCo）的計劃，該公司現有 1,780 萬戶 1G 家庭，其中 560 萬戶已經全光纖覆蓋。我認為任何關注當今英國市場的人都會知道，固定和行動網路的情況都在逐季度慢慢合理化。越來越多的替代網路開始整合、尋求資本重組或關閉。重要的是，在這種背景下，Virgin Media-O2 在本季度增加了寬頻用戶，並繼續在其固定基礎上增加 ARPU。

We also remain positive on the merger between Vodafone and Three in the UK market. We believe and have said publicly that the CMA should and will likely approve the deal, which will result in a more stable mobile market for everyone while yielding additional spectrum and mobile network benefits to Virgin Media-O2.

我們對沃達豐與Three在英國市場的合併仍持樂觀態度。我們相信並且已公開表示，CMA 應該而且很可能會批准這筆交易，這將為每個人帶來更穩定的行動市場，同時為 Virgin Media-O2 帶來額外的頻譜和行動網路優勢。

Now, there have been some key developments in the Benelux region. I'm very pleased to have Stephen van Rooyen now at the helm in the Netherlands. He's already brought a sharpened consumer and product focus to the market with a strong determination you can tell to drive market share across B2C and B2B. He's on the call today and available for any questions you might have. Welcome, Stephen.

目前，比荷盧三國地區已經取得了一些重要進展。我很高興史蒂芬範羅伊恩 (Stephen van Rooyen) 現在掌舵荷蘭隊。他已經為市場帶來了更敏銳的消費者和產品關注點，你可以看出他有堅定的決心來推動 B2C 和 B2B 市場的份額。他今天正在通話中，可以解答您可能提出的任何問題。歡迎光臨，史蒂芬。

Our arrangement is to cooperate with Proximus on the fiber rollout in Belgium are under review by the regulator there. As a reminder, if that deal is approved on terms acceptable to us, this would result in a large portion of our network having roughly 100% wholesale market share and the balance at 65%. That's really unprecedented. Even without the agreement, Wyre is a world-class infrastructure business with 65% wholesale market share across the footprint, which we believe is going to attract significant interest from PE and financing sources.

我們的安排是與Proximus合作在比利時鋪設光纖，目前正在接受當地監管機構的審查。提醒一下，如果該交易以我們可以接受的條款獲得批准，這將導致我們的大部分網路擁有約 100% 的批發市場份額，其餘份額為 65%。這確實是前所未有的。即使沒有該協議，Wyre 也是一家世界一流的基礎設施企業，佔據著全球 65% 的批發市場份額，我們相信這將吸引 PE 和融資來源的極大興趣。

And to be clear, we remain intrigued about the idea of putting these businesses together at some point, what we have dubbed Liberty Benelux, and we continue to see operational financial and tax synergies down the road if this were to happen.

需要明確的是，我們仍然對在某個時候將這些業務整合在一起的想法很感興趣，我們稱之為 Liberty Benelux，如果這種情況發生，我們將繼續看到未來的營運財務和稅收協同效應。

With respect to asset sales, we are optimizing our investment portfolio all the time as promised, exiting lower-growth businesses at substantial multiples of returns and putting that capital to work in both our telecom businesses like the debt pay down at Sunrise or into what we believe are more attractive long-term opportunities. In the last 12 months alone, we've realized $900 million in asset sales, towards the high end of our forecast, demonstrating our ability to both generate and capture value from these investments.

對於資產出售，我們始終按照承諾優化我們的投資組合，以相當多的回報退出低成長業務，並將這些資本投入到我們的電信業務中，例如 Sunrise 的債務償還，或投入到我們認為更具吸引力的長期機會中。僅在過去的 12 個月中，我們就實現了 9 億美元的資產銷售額，接近我們預測的最高值，證明了我們有能力從這些投資中創造和獲取價值。

I think a few examples here are appropriate and will help make the point. We're already aware of All3Media, which was sold for 12 times EBITDA, with proceeds used to pay down debt at Sunrise. We've now sold around 25% of VMO2's tower portfolio in two tranches for roughly 17 times to 18 times EBITDA, netting $350 million of proportionate value to Liberty Global.

我認為這裡的幾個例子很恰當，有助於說明這一點。我們已經知道 All3Media 以 12 倍 EBITDA 的價格出售，所得款項用於償還 Sunrise 的債務。目前，我們已分兩批出售了 VMO2 約 25% 的塔式資產組合，價格約為 EBITDA 的 17 倍至 18 倍，為 Liberty Global 帶來了 3.5 億美元的比例價值。

We recently sold a portion of our stake in EdgeConneX, a premier global data center business, which values our residual interest at $370 million and implies a 30% IRR on our total investment. And we just sold our interest in Pax8, a leading marketplace for procuring and managing cloud applications, realizing over $70 million on an investment of $20 million for a 36% IRR. So clearly, when it comes to our growth portfolio, we continue to prove out our ability to invest in strategic adjacencies, but just as importantly, exit those positions in a timely and profitable manner.

我們最近出售了全球頂級資料中心公司 EdgeConneX 的部分股份，這使我們的剩餘權益價值達到 3.7 億美元，意味著我們的總投資的內部收益率為 30%。我們剛剛出售了在 Pax8 的股權，Pax8 是採購和管理雲端應用程式的領先市場，我們以 2000 萬美元的投資獲得了超過 7000 萬美元的回報，內部收益率為 36%。因此顯然，當談到我們的成長投資組合時，我們繼續證明我們有能力投資於策略鄰接領域，但同樣重要的是，及時且有利可圖地退出這些頭寸。

And then finally, we also committed in February to repurchase 10% of our shares this year, and we are on our way to achieving that goal with 8% acquired year-to-date. And when you put it all together, this will end up being a record year for shareholder remuneration at Liberty Global. Our buyback will add up to around $700 million when it's complete. And with the Sunrise dividend at $4.2 billion, according to analysts, that totals nearly $5 billion of shareholder remuneration on a market cap of $7.6 billion.

最後，我們也在二月承諾今年回購 10％ 的股份，而我們正在朝著實現這一目標的方向前進，今年迄今我們已回購了 8％ 的股份。綜合考慮所有這些因素，今年將成為 Liberty Global 股東薪酬創紀錄的一年。當我們的回購完成後，總額將達到約 7 億美元。據分析師稱，Sunrise 股息為 42 億美元，在 76 億美元的市值下，股東報酬總額接近 50 億美元。

And as we'll cover today, we're not done. Now we assume that most of you have followed closely our progress on the Sunrise spin over the last eight months. Nonetheless, we provide on the following slide an update on the transaction, including all the key dates and trading details. This is a significant moment for Liberty Global shareholders, to say the least. So we are ramping up communications starting today as we draw closer to that distribution date.

正如我們今天所討論的，我們還沒有完成。現在我們假設你們中的大多數人在過去八個月中密切關注了我們在 Sunrise 旋轉方面的進展。儘管如此，我們在下面的幻燈片中提供了交易的最新情況，包括所有關鍵日期和交易細節。對於 Liberty Global 股東來說，至少可以說這是一個重要的時刻。因此，隨著分發日期的臨近，我們從今天開始加強溝通。

At 10:30 this morning, Sunrise management will be hosting their own Q3 results call, sort of a dry run, followed by another week-long investor road show. I can tell you, this management team is working very hard for you. And then on November 1, this Friday, Liberty and Sunrise will be hosting our second investor briefing call to address any and all remaining questions on the transaction itself and trading mechanics. In particular, between the record date of November 4 and the distribution date of November 12. We'll also cover key elements of the conversion from ADS to SIX shares. So we encourage you or your proxy to attend this session, please.

今天上午 10:30，Sunrise 管理層將召開他們自己的第三季業績電話會議，這是一種彩排，隨後將是另一場為期一周的投資者路演。我可以告訴你們，這個管理團隊正在為你們非常努力地工作。然後在 11 月 1 日，也就是本週五，Liberty 和 Sunrise 將舉辦我們的第二次投資者簡報電話會議，以解決有關交易本身和交易機制的所有剩餘問題。特別是在11月4日的登記日期和11月12日的分配日期之間。我們也將介紹從 ADS 轉換為 SIX 股票的關鍵要素。因此，我們鼓勵您或您的代理人參加本次會議。

On the right side, we simply repeat the compelling investor messages that are resonating with shareholders and analysts thus far, in particular the fact that Sunrise is a scale-based challenger operating in Europe's most attractive telecom market with world-class brands, significant network optionality and a compelling free cash flow story. It's also worth pointing out that we expect Sunrise A shares to be included on the Swiss performance index 5 trading days following the listing on SIX. That's an important moment.

在右側，我們只是重複了迄今為止引起股東和分析師共鳴的令人信服的投資者信息，特別是 Sunrise 是一家基於規模的挑戰者，在歐洲最具吸引力的電信市場運營，擁有世界一流的品牌、重要的網絡可選性和令人信服的自由現金流故事。另外值得一提的是，我們預計 Sunrise A 股票將在 SIX 上市後 5 個交易日內納入瑞士績效指數。這是一個重要的時刻。

Understandably, there's been quite a bit of focus on what's next and what happens now to Liberty Global after the Sunrise spinoff? And the following slide outlines this next phase of value creation. One of the big strategic pivots announced in February was a renewed focus on distributing assets to unlock value for shareholders when the time is right.

可以理解的是，人們非常關注下一步該做什麼，以及在 Sunrise 分拆之後 Liberty Global 會發生什麼？下面的幻燈片概述了價值創造的下一階段。二月宣布的一項重大策略轉變是重新專注於分配資產，以便在適當的時候為股東釋放價值。

Given Sunrise CapEx profile and free cash flow generation, it was the obvious first candidate. Moving forward, we remain squarely focused on managing our remaining telecom assets, what we now call Liberty Telecom, for the benefit of shareholders in that manner. We'll also continue to rotate capital out of other positions into strategic telecom transactions when that makes sense.

考慮到 Sunrise CapEx 的狀況和自由現金流的產生，它顯然是第一候選人。展望未來，我們仍將專注於管理我們剩餘的電信資產（現在稱為 Liberty Telecom），以這種方式造福股東。當有意義的時候，我們也會繼續把其他部位的資本轉入策略電信交易。

Now why is this exciting from our perspective? First of all, as I've already mentioned, despite representing 60% of our market cap according to analysts, Sunrise is a small piece of Liberty Telecom today, representing around 10% of RGUs, revenue and EBITDA on an aggregate basis. And as I said, closer to 20% of revenue and EBITDA on a proportionate basis.

那麼從我們的角度來看這為什麼會令人興奮呢？首先，正如我已經提到的，儘管根據分析師的說法，Sunrise 占我們市值的 60%，但目前它只是 Liberty Telecom 的一小部分，總計約佔 RGUs、收入和 EBITDA 的 10%。正如我所說，按比例計算，收入和 EBITDA 接近 20%。

So post the Sunrise spin, Liberty Telecom still represents, on an aggregate basis, over 80 million mobile and broadband connections, $22 billion of revenue and $8 billion of adjusted EBITDA. As with Sunrise, prior to our intention to spin, we believe we are getting very little, if any, value in our stock today for our interest in these assets.

因此，在 Sunrise 分拆之後，Liberty Telecom 仍然總計擁有超過 8,000 萬個行動和寬頻連線、220 億美元的收入和 80 億美元的調整後 EBITDA。就像 Sunrise 一樣，在我們打算分拆之前，我們認為，對於我們在這些資產上的權益，我們現在的股票價值非常小，甚至沒有價值。

As a result, we are pursuing a value creation strategy for each Liberty Telecom business that's intended to drive commercial momentum, monetize infrastructure where possible and deleverage into strategic transactions like the Sunrise spin or other types of crystallization opportunities. All four markets, Holland and Belgium, the UK and Ireland, are in that pipeline. I'm not going to address today each of these development opportunities in any detail, but we're going to keep you updated as the structure, shape and timing becomes clear.

因此，我們正在為 Liberty Telecom 的每項業務制定價值創造策略，旨在推動商業發展勢頭、盡可能將基礎設施貨幣化、去槓桿化為策略交易，例如 Sunrise 分拆或其他類型的結晶機會。所有四個市場（荷蘭、比利時、英國和愛爾蘭）都在這範圍內。今天我不會詳細討論每一個發展機遇，但是我們將在結構、形式和時間安排明朗後及時向大家通報。

One thing we know for sure, though, is that the European telecom sector is moving towards what I would describe as more rational behavior among competitors with a clearer picture of network and technology choices and an increasing regulatory support for investment. All of which means that Liberty Telecom, with marquee assets, premium brands and meaningful cash flow, should become even more valuable over time.

但有一件事是可以肯定的，那就是歐洲電信業正在走向我所描述的更理性的競爭對手行為，對網路和技術選擇有了更清晰的認識，監管部門對投資的支持也不斷增加。所有這些都意味著，擁有知名資產、優質品牌和可觀現金流的 Liberty Telecom 將隨著時間的推移而變得更加有價值。

And you'll notice here that we've rebranded what we previously described as Ventures to Liberty Growth. Why did we do that? For starters, this more accurately reflects both the assets in the portfolio today as well as our goal of investing into more scale-based businesses in tech, media, sports and digital infrastructure that have tailwinds or represent unique market opportunities to create value.

您會注意到，我們已將先前的 Ventures 更名為 Liberty Growth。我們為什麼這麼做？首先，這更準確地反映了當前投資組合中的資產以及我們投資於科技、媒體、體育和數位基礎設施等更具規模的業務的目標，這些業務具有順風或代表著創造價值的獨特市場機會。

Great examples of this include Formula E, which we believe is poised for growth as the only global championship focused on sustainable racing. AtlasEdge is another great example, a massive data center play in Europe owned together with one of the most successful investors in the infrastructure business.

電動方程式錦標賽就是一個很好的例子，我們相信，作為唯一專注於永續賽車的全球錦標賽，電動方程式錦標賽將有望成長。AtlasEdge 是另一個很好的例子，它是歐洲一家大型資料中心，由基礎設施業務中最成功的投資者之一共同擁有。

Liberty Growth, as you know, is a $3 billion portfolio today, and with our track record and focus on disciplined and strategic opportunities, we think it's going to add significant value to our story over time. Finally, you also see on this slide, what we call Liberty Services. We've talked in the past of our central technology platform, which provides $400 million of technology services and IP to each of our Liberty Telecom businesses today, pursuant to long-term contracts.

如您所知，Liberty Growth 目前的投資組合規模為 30 億美元，憑藉我們的業績記錄和對嚴謹戰略機遇的關注，我們認為，隨著時間的推移，它將為我們的故事增添重要價值。最後，您也可以在這張投影片上看到我們所謂的自由服務。我們過去曾談到我們的中央技術平台，該平台根據長期合同，為我們目前的每個 Liberty Telecom 業務提供價值 4 億美元的技術服務和 IP。

Similarly, Charlie's organization has separate units which provide over $100 million of financial services to these and other businesses within the family. We believe there's an excellent opportunity to build on these internal businesses by partnering with other professional service firms, growing in-house and third-party revenue and ultimately, monetizing these contracts, IP and talent over time. This is yet another underappreciated source of value creation and capital formation within the Liberty Global story.

同樣，查理的組織也有獨立部門，為家族中的這些企業和其他企業提供超過 1 億美元的金融服務。我們相信，透過與其他專業服務公司合作，增加內部和第三方收入，並最終隨著時間的推移將這些合約、智慧財產權和人才貨幣化，這是一個絕佳的機會來發展這些內部業務。這是自由全球故事中另一個被低估的價值創造和資本形成來源。

Now where will Liberty Global trade after the Sunrise spin off? Well, that math is for you to do. In our opinion, you can make an argument, if you trade right where it is today. The $15 of cash and Liberty growth assets, you don't need to assign heroic valuations to Liberty Telecom post Sunrise to get there, especially as we reduce complexity, create valuation transparency and continue demonstrating our ability to generate significant returns with our capital.

那麼，在 Sunrise 分拆之後，Liberty Global 將在哪裡進行交易？好吧，這個數學題目就由你來算了。我們認為，如果您在今天的市場上進行交易，您就可以提出論點。15 美元的現金和 Liberty 成長資產，您不需要在 Sunrise 之後為 Liberty Telecom 分配英雄般的估值來實現這一目標，特別是當我們降低複雜性、創建估值透明度並繼續展示我們利用資本創造可觀回報的能力時。

Before handing it over to Charlie, I'm going to walk through our operating results quickly on the next slide. I think the first point to make here is that taken together, all of our operations achieved sequential improvement in broadband and postpaid mobile adds in the third quarter, including a return to positive broadband adds in the UK and a particularly strong postpaid mobile quarter in Switzerland.

在將其移交給查理之前，我將在下一張投影片中快速介紹我們的營運成果。我認為這裡要指出的第一點是，總的來說，我們所有業務在第三季度的寬頻和後付費行動新增量都實現了連續增長，其中英國的寬頻新增量恢復正增長，瑞士的後付費移動新增量表現尤為強勁。

Starting with Sunrise at the top left, we see continued commercial improvement over the last four quarters, including another positive quarter of broadband net adds, supported by management's churn initiatives with the main brand. And that includes more premium positioning, loyalty programs and cross-selling into FMC.

從左上角的 Sunrise 開始，我們看到過去四個季度商業持續改善，包括寬頻淨增的另一個積極季度，這得益於管理層對主品牌的客戶流失舉措。其中包括更多高端定位、忠誠度計劃和向 FMC 的交叉銷售。

Meanwhile, the slowdown in fixed ARPU was impacted by the lapping of last year's price rise. As the team indicated at the Capital Markets Day, we've substantially completed the migration of UPC customers at Sunrise, with remaining migrations expected to be value neutral. In mobile, our dual brand strategy continues to drive growth, with 43,000 postpaid net adds. And while the negative result in mobile ARPU reflects lower-priced flanker brand growth and lower out-of-bundle usage, we still feel very positive about that business.

同時，固定ARPU值的放緩則受到去年價格上漲的影響。正如團隊在資本市場日所指出的那樣，我們已經基本完成了 Sunrise 的 UPC 客戶的遷移，剩餘的遷移預計不會對價值產生影響。在行動領域，我們的雙品牌策略持續推動成長，後付費淨新增用戶達 43,000 戶。儘管行動 ARPU 的負面結果反映了低價附加品牌的成長和捆綁服務外使用量的下降，但我們對該業務仍然持非常樂觀的態度。

Now the business also continues to benefit from a handful of innovations, including a new customer service AI tool, which supports five languages and allows customers to access help more seamlessly. Sunrise's Device-as-a-Service product, strong partnerships with hero brands like [Swiss Key] and [Sunrise Moments] loyalty program. So a lot of positive things happening at Sunrise, and you'll learn more about that on their call today and their roadshow to follow.

現在，該業務也繼續受益於一些創新，包括一種新的客戶服務 AI 工具，它支援五種語言並允許客戶更無縫地獲得幫助。Sunrise 的設備即服務產品，與 [Swiss Key] 和 [Sunrise Moments] 忠誠度計劃等英雄品牌建立了牢固的合作夥伴關係。Sunrise 發生了很多積極的事情，您將在今天的電話會議和隨後的路演中了解更多資訊。

And moving to Telenet on the top right, you'll see continued small improvements in commercial results over the last 3 quarters, including an improvement in net broadband losses despite a very competitive market. And this was supported in part by the launch of BASE in the South this past summer. BASE fixed customers already stand at over 10,000, and we expect this to reach over 25,000 by the end of the year. That's well above our forecast.

再看右上角的 Telenet，您會看到過去 3 個季度商業業績持續小幅改善，包括儘管市場競爭非常激烈，但淨寬頻虧損仍有所改善。這在一定程度上得益於今年夏天在南方啟動的 BASE。BASE固定客戶數已超過10,000個，我們預計到今年年底將達到25,000個以上。這遠高於我們的預測。

It's also worth pointing out, there has been another quarter of fixed ARPU growth supported by the June '24 price rise of 3.5%. In mobile, postpaid net adds of 1,000 reflect a return to modest growth in an increasingly promotional market, promotional -- where everyone is anticipating Digi's launch, including us. And while we're seeing higher value packages at a lower price, our BASE brand is well positioned in that context. And despite price discounting, we're able to keep postpaid ARPU stable year-over-year.

另外值得一提的是，受 24 年 6 月 3.5% 價格上漲的推動，固定 ARPU 又實現了一個季度的成長。在行動領域，後付費淨增用戶數達到 1,000 反映了在日益促銷的市場中恢復適度成長，在這個市場中，每個人都在期待 Digi 的推出，包括我們。儘管我們看到更高價值的套餐價格更低，但我們的 BASE 品牌在這種環境下處於有利地位。儘管價格有所折扣，我們仍然能夠維持後付費 ARPU 年比穩定。

And moving clockwise on VodafoneZiggo at the bottom right, you'll see modest sequential improvement in both broadband and mobile losses in the quarter. The broadband market remains very competitive with price-led promotions. While we continue to focus on our value over volume strategy, that's resulted in consistent fixed ARPU growth in four of the last five quarters. We did see higher fixed sales activity on the back of our UEFA football rights, which we believe provides an important differentiator in this marketplace and also a sales engine given our distribution through the Ziggo app.

沿著右下角的 VodafoneZiggo 順時針移動，您會看到本季寬頻和行動損失均有小幅改善。寬頻市場仍以價格主導促銷，競爭十分激烈。我們繼續專注於「價值重於數量」的策略，這使得我們在過去五個季度中的四個季度中實現了固定 ARPU 的持續成長。我們確實看到了憑藉歐足總足球轉播權而實現的更高固定銷售活動，我們認為這為這個市場提供了一個重要的區別因素，並且由於我們透過 Ziggo 應用進行分銷，因此也是一個銷售引擎。

Mobile postpaid performance improved sequentially, but was still impacted by some B2B port outs related to local government contracts. And mobile postpaid ARPU growth was strong. That's despite a 10% price rise a year ago. And then finally, Virgin Media-O2 at the bottom left had a much better quarter sequentially. Growth in broadband base was 16,000. That was supported by nexfibre sales as we continue to ramp up marketing on the new build footprint. Gross additions on the nexfibre footprint were over 40% higher than in the second quarter. We continue to see heavy discounting in the market as AltNets seek to build penetration, which has put some pressure on the BAU footprint, which we expected.

移動後付費業績環比提高，但仍受到與地方政府合約相關的一些 B2B 端口輸出的影響。移動後付費ARPU成長強勁。儘管一年前價格上漲了 10%，但情況仍然如此。最後，左下角的 Virgin Media-O2 本季的業績比上一季好得多。寬頻基數增加了16,000。隨著我們繼續增加新建足跡的營銷力度，這得到了 nexfibre 銷售的支持。nexfibre 足跡的總增量比第二季高出 40% 以上。由於 AltNets 尋求擴大滲透率，我們繼續看到市場大幅折扣，這給 BAU 足跡帶來了一些壓力，這正是我們預期的。

Despite the competitive environment, we continue to deliver on our value over volume strategy here as well with fixed ARPU growth of 2.2% in the quarter. This was supported by the price rise of 8.8% in April, but more importantly, our ability to better retain these price rises today through our investments in the customer experience as well as digital initiatives that allow us to have a much more personalized pricing capabilities.

儘管競爭激烈，我們仍持續實施「價值重於數量」的策略，本季固定 ARPU 成長率為 2.2%。這是由於 4 月份價格上漲 8.8% 所致，但更重要的是，透過對客戶體驗的投資以及數位化舉措，我們能夠更好地維持目前的價格上漲，從而使我們擁有更加個性化的定價能力。

In mobile, postpaid net losses of negative $15,000 was an 85% improvement over the second quarter, and that's due to reduced churn primarily at O2. We continue to see less activity at the premium end of the market, but we're well positioned to deliver across the whole market, with our Giffgaff and Tesco Mobile brands at the lower end.

在行動領域，後付費淨虧損為負 15,000 美元，較第二季改善了 85％，這主要歸功於 O2 的客戶流失減少。我們繼續看到高端市場活動減少，但我們已準備好在整個市場上提供服務，我們的 Giffgaff 和 Tesco Mobile 品牌位於低端。

By the way, our Volt FMC product has been very successful, continues to be very successful. And that customer cohort, we see higher ARPU, higher NPS and lower churn. Postpaid ARPU in the quarter was broadly stable given the inflation linked price rise from Q2, offset by continued impact of our customer mix. And as with all our businesses, Q4 will be a key trading period for VMO2 with major handset launches, Black Friday and Christmas trading. The team has a number of initiatives in place to improve O2 performance in particular, including O2 switch up, loyalty and building some same digital capabilities as in fixed.

順便說一句，我們的 Volt FMC 產品非常成功，並將繼續保持成功。對於該客戶群，我們看到更高的 ARPU、更高的 NPS 和更低的客戶流失率。由於第二季通膨掛鉤價格上漲，本季後付費 ARPU 基本上保持穩定，但客戶結構持續產生的影響抵消了這一影響。與我們所有的業務一樣，第四季度將是 VMO2 的關鍵交易期，包括主要手機發布、黑色星期五和聖誕節交易。該團隊已採取多項措施來提高O2的效能，包括O2轉換、忠誠度和建立與固定相同的一些數位能力。

Fortunately, Lutz is back in the office after a short health related matter, and I'm thrilled he's on the call here today to take your questions as needed. So now over to you, Charlie.

幸運的是，盧茨在處理完短暫的健康問題後已經回到了辦公室，我很高興他今天能來這裡回答你們的問題。現在輪到你了，查理。

Thanks, Mike. The next slide sets out a summary of the quarterly revenue and EBITDA performance in our four key markets. We saw broadly stable revenue and EBITDA across all the OpCos, with the exception of Virgin Media-O2, which experienced a decline in both revenue and EBITDA. Sunrise reported a revenue decline of 1.3%, driven largely by the annualization of last year's July price rise and partially offset by continued momentum in mobile subscriptions and B2B revenue.

謝謝，麥克。下一張投影片概述了我們四個主要市場的季度收入和 EBITDA 表現。我們發現所有 OpCos 的收入和 EBITDA 大致保持穩定，只有 Virgin Media-O2 例外，其收入和 EBITDA 雙雙出現下滑。Sunrise 公佈其營收下降 1.3%，主要原因是去年 7 月價格上漲的年化影響，但被行動用戶數和 B2B 收入的持續成長所部分抵消。

Telenet delivered stable revenue in Q3, driven by the one-off impact and the recognition of previously deferred revenues that's around $18 million. And this was partially offset by a decrease in mobile revenue due to soft handset sales and a decrease in B2B wholesale revenues related to the loss of the VOO MVNO contract.

受一次性影響和確認約 1800 萬美元的先前遞延收入的推動，Telenet 第三季度實現了穩定的收入。但這一增長被軟手機銷售導致的行動收入下降以及與 VOO MVNO 合約遺失相關的 B2B 批發收入下降部分抵消。

Virgin Media-O2 reported a revenue decline of 4.5%, excluding the impact of the nexfibre construction, and this was driven by continued headwinds in low-margin hardware and B2B fixed revenues. It was also impacted by the comparison with Q3 2023, when there was a one-off $48 million item.

Virgin Media-O2 報告稱，除去 nexfibre 建設的影響，其收入下降了 4.5%，這是由於低利潤硬體和 B2B 固定收入持續遭遇阻力所致。與 2023 年第三季相比，這也受到了影響，當時有一筆 4800 萬美元的一次性項目。

Despite these challenges, mobile service revenue and fixed service revenue remained stable again in Q3 and indeed year-to-date. And Virgin Media-O2 maintained positive fixed revenue growth in Q3, supported by ARPU growth of 2.2% year-on-year.

儘管面臨這些挑戰，行動服務收入和固定服務收入在第三季以及年初至今仍保持穩定。而維珍媒體-O2在第三季維持了正固定收入成長，得益於ARPU年增2.2%。

VodafoneZiggo delivered stable revenue driven by continued growth in mobile and B2B fixed revenues and offset by a decline in the B2C fixed customer base and a step down from the larger fixed price rises from 2023.

VodafoneZiggo 實現了穩定的收入，這得益於行動和 B2B 固定收入的持續增長，但受到 B2C 固定客戶群的下降和 2023 年固定價格上漲幅度下降的影響。

Moving on to our Q3 adjusted EBITDA performance. Sunrise reported stable adjusted EBITDA growth, driven by lower cost to capture and a decrease in labor costs, which offset the decrease in revenue.

繼續討論我們第三季調整後的 EBITDA 表現。Sunrise 報告調整後的 EBITDA 實現穩定成長，這得益於捕獲成本降低和勞動力成本下降，抵消了收入的下降。

Telenet delivered adjusted EBITDA growth of 5.2% in Q3, and this was driven by continued cost control, but also the profit on the $80 million one-off revenue item. This was partially offset by higher labor costs and an increase in sales and marketing expenses, driven by the launch of the BASE brand in the south of the country.

Telenet 第三季調整後 EBITDA 成長 5.2%，不僅得益於持續的成本控制，也得益於 8,000 萬美元一次性收入項目的利潤。由於在該國南部推出 BASE 品牌，勞動力成本上漲以及銷售和行銷費用增加，部分抵消了這一增長。

Virgin Media-O2's adjusted EBITDA decreased 4.1%, excluding nexfibre construction. The profit on the one-off revenue item in Q3 2023 was a key reason for this decline. And finally, VodafoneZiggo reported stable adjusted EBITDA, driven by cost savings, particularly in customer service, IT and procurement, as well as business contracting services and lower energy costs. However, these savings were partially offset by higher programming costs due to the UEFA Champions League broadcast, as well as labor cost increases related to the collective bargaining agreement.

不包括 nexfibre 建設，Virgin Media-O2 的調整後 EBITDA 下降了 4.1%。2023 年第三季一次性收入項目的利潤是造成這一下降的一個主要原因。最後，VodafoneZiggo 報告調整後的 EBITDA 保持穩定，這得益於成本節省，尤其是在客戶服務、IT 和採購以及業務承包服務和能源成本降低方面。然而，這些節省的部分被歐洲冠軍聯賽轉播導致的節目製作成本增加以及與集體談判協議相關的勞動力成本增加所抵消。

Turning to the next slide, we give an update on the key metrics supporting our capital allocation model. At the end of Q3 2024, the free cash flow profile for each of our key operating companies remained on track to achieve our full year free cash flow guidance.

在下一張投影片中，我們將更新支援我們資本配置模型的關鍵指標。截至 2024 年第三季末，我們各家主要營運公司的自由現金流狀況仍有望實現我們的全年自由現金流預期。

We continue to hold a substantial cash balance of around $3.5 billion at the end of Q3 2024. Cash inflow related to operations in Q3 was $112 million, and with the dividends from our JV is expected to be paid in Q4. We continued investing modestly in our growth assets and executed share buybacks of approximately $165 million in Q3, in line with our 2024 guidance to buy back up to 10% of our outstanding stock.

截至 2024 年第三季末，我們仍持有約 35 億美元的大量現金餘額。第三季與營運相關的現金流入為 1.12 億美元，預計將在第四季度支付合資公司的股息。我們繼續適度投資於我們的成長資產，並在第三季度執行了約 1.65 億美元的股票回購，符合我們 2024 年回購高達 10% 流通股的指導方針。

In our growth portfolio, we closed the quarter with a fair market value of $3 billion, making investments of around $73 million, largely in AtlasEdge and nexfibre, whilst executing disposals of part of our stakes in ITV and Laceworks. We did take a write-down on Televisa Univision of around $72 million based on operating performance.

在我們的成長投資組合中，我們在本季結束時的公平市價為 30 億美元，投資額約為 7,300 萬美元，主要投資於 AtlasEdge 和 nexfibre，同時出售了我們在 ITV 和 Laceworks 的部分股份。根據營運業績，我們確實對 Televisa Univision 進行了約 7,200 萬美元的減記。

And finally, turning to our sum of the parts, we wanted to highlight the key drivers of our stock on a per share basis. We continue to believe the share price of $20 to $21 per share still doesn't fully value the inherent value of the business. We believe the Sunrise spin is the first step towards closing this valuation gap and have been encouraged by the average analyst valuation for Sunrise of CHF8.2 billion, which implies a $12 per share contribution to the current Liberty Global share price. Following the execution of the Sunrise spinoff, our aim is to unlock the remaining value sitting in cash, our growth portfolio and indeed, the other FMCs.

最後，談到各部分的總和，我們想強調每股股票的關鍵驅動因素。我們仍然認為，每股 20 至 21 美元的股價仍未完全反映該業務的內在價值。我們相信，Sunrise 的分拆是縮小這一估值差距的第一步，分析師對 Sunrise 82 億瑞士法郎的平均估值令我們感到鼓舞，這意味著每股將為當前 Liberty Global 的股價貢獻 12 美元。在完成 Sunrise 分拆之後，我們的目標是釋放現金、成長投資組合以及其他基金管理公司的剩餘價值。

The book value of cash after the Sunrise deleveraging listed stakes and unlisted assets in our growth portfolio equals $15 per share. And when combined with the $12 per share for Sunrise, the implied value for each Liberty Global share is $27 per share. Now keep in mind, this doesn't attribute any value to the remaining FMC or indeed, services businesses that we retain.

我們成長投資組合中的上市股票和非上市資產在日出期去槓桿後，現金帳面價值相當於每股 15 美元。與 Sunrise 每股 12 美元的價格相加，Liberty Global 每股的隱含價值為 27 美元。現在請記住，這不會為我們保留的剩餘 FMC 或服務業務帶來任何價值。

Turning to our debt position. We maintain a strong position, with the average life of our debt at nearly five years. We continue to have significant consolidated cash and liquidity, with siloed debt stacks at the FMC assets.

談談我們的債務狀況。我們維持強勢地位，平均債務期限接近五年。我們繼續擁有大量合併現金和流動性，以及 FMC 資產中的孤立債務堆。

Our debt silos do not face any material maturities until 2028, and we remain proactive in extending maturities of our debt, facilitated by our extensive swap portfolio, which is independent of the underlying bank debt, which allows us to term out bank debt and not lose the benefit of those attractive swaps. This strengthens our overall debt position and allows us to remain opportunistic and strategic in the market.

我們的債務倉在 2028 年之前不會面臨任何重大到期日，而且我們仍然積極延長債務到期日，這得益於我們廣泛的掉期組合，該組合獨立於基礎銀行債務，使我們能夠償還銀行債務，而不會失去那些有吸引力的掉期帶來的好處。這增強了我們的整體債務狀況，並使我們能夠在市場上保持機會性和策略性。

Earlier this month, VodafoneZiggo successfully issued a green bond consisting of EUR575 million of senior notes due 2032. Now we used the proceeds from this to refinance the existing senior notes, which were due in 2027. This transaction was net leverage neutral, but resulted in an increase in the average life of VodafoneZiggo's debt.

本月初，VodafoneZiggo 成功發行了一隻綠色債券，包括 2032 年到期的 5.75 億歐元優先票據。現在我們利用這項收益來為 2027 年到期的現有優先票據進行再融資。這筆交易對淨槓桿率是中性的，但導致 VodafoneZiggo 的債務平均期限增加。

At Sunrise, we are finalizing the paydown of the debt so that they are on track to meet their target net debt to adjusted EBITDA range of 3.5 times to 4.5 times. The $1.4 billion cash injection will be completed prior to the record date from Liberty Global's corporate cash balance with the remainder coming from Sunrise free cash flow.

在 Sunrise，我們正在完成債務的償還，以便他們能夠實現其目標淨債務與調整後 EBITDA 比率的 3.5 倍至 4.5 倍範圍。14 億美元的現金注入將在記錄日期之前從 Liberty Global 的公司現金餘額中完成，剩餘部分來自 Sunrise 自由現金流。

And then lastly, as part of our 2024 guidance, I would like to remind you that we had refined Sunrise free cash flow guidance from CHF360 million to CHF400 million to CHF360 million to CHF370 million at the Capital Markets Day in September. I also wanted to reconfirm all our other remaining guidance metrics at Sunrise, Telenet, Virgin Media-O2 and VodafoneZiggo.

最後，作為我們 2024 年指引的一部分，我想提醒您，我們已在 9 月的資本市場日將 Sunrise 自由現金流指引從 3.6 億瑞士法郎至 4 億瑞士法郎修改為 3.6 億瑞士法郎至 3.7 億瑞士法郎。我還想再次確認 Sunrise、Telenet、Virgin Media-O2 和 VodafoneZiggo 的所有其他剩餘指導指標。

Now that concludes our prepared remarks for Q2, and I'd like to hand over to the operator for Q&A.

好了，我們對第二季的準備發言到此結束，我想將時間交給操作員進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) Robert Grindle, Deutsche Bank.

（操作員指示）德意志銀行羅伯特·格林德爾。

And thank you for taking us away from the UK budget. Look, I think there's a little bit of bad news for you on mix. But my question is on UK fiber, depending on how many Upp homes were incorporated. Organic build is perhaps closer to 200,000 homes in Q3 versus close to 300,000. Is this a change in momentum? Or just that it takes some effort to incorporate the Upp build? And at the same time, VMO2 fiber upgrade speed also seems to be modest versus your targets. Is there a tipping point on both builds, pending a UK NetCo wholesale deal? Or is it just the ebb and flow of the business?

感謝您讓我們不再關注英國預算。瞧，我認為對你來說，混合方面有一些壞消息。但我的問題是關於英國光纖，這取決於有多少 Upp 家庭被納入其中。第三季的有機新建房屋數量可能更接近 20 萬套，而非接近 30 萬套。這是勢頭的改變嗎？或者只是需要付出一些努力來融入 Upp 構建？同時，與您的目標相比，VMO2 光纖升級速度似乎也比較慢。在英國 NetCo 批發交易即將達成的情況下，這兩項建設是否都會有一個轉捩點？或者這只是商業的起伏？

Welcome back.

歡迎回來。

Yeah, sure. So we have built close to 300,000 nexfibre premises in the last quarter, which is not really a slowdown, Robert. And I think on Fibre Up, we have not disclosed the number. But overall, we are absolutely on plan to meet our internal budget.

是的，當然。因此，我們在上個季度建造了近 300,000 個 nexfibre 場所，這實際上並不是一個放緩，羅伯特。我認為在 Fibre Up 上我們尚未披露該數字。但總體而言，我們絕對可以按照計劃實現內部預算。

So I think we haven't disclosed Fibre Up numbers, but the overall Fibre Up number is higher than last year. And we are on our way to implement that. So there's no slowdown at all in any build. Neither on Fibre Up, nor or nexfibre. And yeah, it seems that NI will hit a bit our P&L, but let's see.

所以我認為我們還沒有透露 Fibre Up 的數字，但整體 Fibre Up 的數字高於去年。我們正在努力實現這一目標。因此，任何構建都不會出現任何減速。Fibre Up 和 nexfibre 皆不適用。是的，看起來 NI 會對我們的損益造成一點影響，但讓我們拭目以待。

Yeah. One addition there, Rob, there's I don't believe there's any Upp customers if you're referring to the acquisition of the altnet in the year-to-date figures. That's more of a -- Q4 and onwards. So I don't believe they've been impacted at all by the integration of Upp if that was your question.

是的。羅布，還有一點，如果您指的是年初至今的資料中對 altnet 的收購，那麼我認為沒有任何 Upp 客戶。這更像是—Q4 及以後。所以如果這是你的問題的話，我不認為他們受到 Upp 整合的任何影響。

Maurice Patrick, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的莫里斯·帕特里克。

Also, great, Lutz, to have you back. A couple for me, the quite dull modeling questions. But the first one is just to understand where 2024 central cash ends up. So if you start with your sort of $3.5 billion number that you gave for 3Q '24, just the moving parts. I think you have things like, for example, $120 million of Venture sales, you've got $220 million cash outperformance at (inaudible), presuming that's a Sunrise [1.4 billion], more buybacks. So just the moving parts to help us work out where you'll end up around Q4 will be helpful.

另外，盧茨，很高興你回來。對我來說，這是幾個相當無趣的建模問題。但首先我們只是想了解 2024 年中央現金的最終去向。因此，如果您從 2024 年第三季給出的 35 億美元數字開始，那麼只是變動部分。我認為你有這樣的情況，例如，1.2 億美元的創投銷售額，你有 2.2 億美元的現金超額表現（聽不清楚），假設這是 Sunrise [14 億美元]，還有更多的回購。因此，只需移動部件就能幫助我們確定您在第四季度的最終結果，這將會很有幫助。

And the second question, just on the Sunrise EV. It's obviously a very topical time with the spend that you're doing. I mean, you cite the number of CHF8.2 billion being a consensus of analysts. But I'm just curious to understand that the CHF8.2 billion makes adjustments for things like, for example, the CHF30 million TSA that I think Sunrise will pay Liberty post the spin. If you adjust for things like LTIPs, I think Sunrise will pay $25 million, $30 million a year, LTIP, for example. Just help us understand what's in the CHF8.2 billion?

第二個問題是關於 Sunrise EV 的。對於您所花的錢來說，這顯然是一個非常熱門的話題。我的意思是，你引用的 82 億瑞士法郎是分析師的共識。但我只是好奇，82 億瑞士法郎是否會對某些事情做出調整，例如，我認為 Sunrise 將在分拆後向 Liberty 支付 3000 萬瑞士法郎的 TSA。如果根據長期激勵計劃 (LTIP) 之類的因素進行調整，我認為 Sunrise 每年將支付 2500 萬美元、3000 萬美元的長期激勵計劃 (LTIP)。能不能幫我們了解一下82億瑞士法郎裡面有什麼？

Listen, I think on the CHF8.2 billion, Maurice, you're going to have to go to the analysts themselves. That's not a number that we're calculating or telling you is something. We're just taking the actual numbers that the analysts themselves have looked at. The $30 million, I think, is well understood and frankly, it was always embedded. And I don't know how they're treating LTIPs above or below the line.

聽著，莫里斯，我認為，關於 82 億瑞士法郎的問題，你必須親自去找分析師。這不是我們正在計算或告訴您的數字。我們只是採用分析師自己看到的實際數字。我認為，3000 萬美元這個數字是很好理解的，而且坦白說，它始終是隱含的。我不知道他們是如何對待高於或低於該標準的 LTIP 的。

But Michael, if you may have some general comments on those -- on that question, if you want to address it, you can quickly.

但是邁克爾，如果你對這些問題有一些一般性的評論，如果你想回答這個問題，你可以快速地回答。

Yeah. Thanks, Mike. I think you summed it up. It's just a general average of where we can see Sunrise valuations in the analysts' sum of the parts growth into the CMD and then for a number of analysts who published standalone reports after the CMD. And as you say, Maurice, I think most of those points were brought out of the CMD and largely factored in.

是的。謝謝，麥克。我認為你已經總出來了。這只是一個總體平均值，我們可以從中看到，Sunrise 估值在分析師對 CMD 各部分增長的總和中，以及在 CMD 之後發布獨立報告的分析師數量的平均值。正如你所說，莫里斯，我認為大多數觀點都是從 CMD 中提出的，並且已被廣泛考慮。

I think also to be fair, it's underpinned by this essentially tax-efficient dividend yield, which is well cut, to be fair, on a free cash flow of [360 million to 370 million], this is a [240 million] commitment next year. It's a pretty good coverage ratio. So I think that's the key annotation.

我認為公平地說，它的基礎是本質上具有稅收效率的股息收益率，公平地說，在 [3.6 億至 3.7 億] 的自由現金流下，這是明年的 [2.4 億] 承諾。這是一個相當不錯的覆蓋率。所以我認為這是關鍵的註解。

You want to get the cash question? Yeah.

您想了解現金問題嗎？是的。

Yeah. So I think, look, our cash liquidity will be in excess of $2 billion, probably a little bit higher, actually. But that doesn't include the liquid stakes where we have very liquid securities, ITV, Vodafone, Lionsgate. So you can make a case that our cash liquidity is nearly 2.5. And -- and 1 could argue that on a proforma market cap of 3, that again highlights Mike's point about there's a lot of value to unlock here.

是的。所以我認為，我們的現金流動性將超過 20 億美元，實際上可能會更高一些。但這不包括流動性非常強的證券，例如 ITV、沃達豐、獅門影業。因此你可以說我們的現金流動性接近 2.5。並且 — — 我可以爭辯說，在形式上的市值 3 上，這再次凸顯了邁克的觀點，即這裡有很多價值有待釋放。

Joshua Mills, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的 Joshua Mills。

I'd like to ask Stephen actually a couple of things on VodafoneZiggo having recently joined the business. I was interested going through the first comments you've made in your press release related to that business. And in that, you talked about your confidence in restoring the best network experience at VodafoneZiggo. I think it's obvious, from the comments and also the results, that you've been losing share and cutting price over the past few years with KPN and the AltNets have ramped up their fiber builds.

我實際上想問史蒂芬一些有關最近加入 VodafoneZiggo 的問題。我很感興趣閱讀您在新聞稿中就該業務所發表的第一條評論。在書中，您談到了對恢復 VodafoneZiggo 最佳網路體驗的信心。我認為，從評論和結果來看，很明顯，過去幾年裡，你們的市場份額不斷下降，價格不斷下降，而 KPN 和 AltNets 則加大了光纖建設。

So my question is, what do you think you need to do with this business in order to stabilize, if not grow the subscriber base going forward? Is it a case of upgrading DOCSIS 4? Do you need to invest in more fiber? And how do you get back to growth? And perhaps if I could just take a second kind of part to that question. You talked on the call about value over volume in the Dutch market. But that value may become harder to come by as the back book price increases are now coming in lower than previous years. So any comments you could give on how you plan to upsell customers? Perhaps any commentary on front book pricing trends as well with your relatives?

所以我的問題是，您認為需要對這項業務做些什麼才能穩定（如果不能擴大）未來的用戶群？這是升級 DOCSIS 4 的情況嗎？您需要投資更多的光纖嗎？那麼如何才能恢復成長呢？也許我可以從第二個方面來回答這個問題。您在電話中談到了荷蘭市場的價值重於數量。但由於過往書籍價格的漲幅低於前幾年，這一價值可能變得更加難以實現。那麼，您能就如何向客戶追加銷售給予什麼建議嗎？也許您的親戚對前書定價趨勢有什麼評論嗎？

Welcome. Thanks for the question. Can you hear me.

歡迎。謝謝你的提問。你聽得到我嗎。

Yeah.

是的。

Thank you for the question. Look, I think -- great. Look, I think it's a big question, and I'll remind you, I've been in the business less than a couple of months. But I'll give it a go and give you my first observations about where we're going to spend our time focusing.

感謝您的提問。瞧，我認為——很棒。聽著，我覺得這是一個大問題，而且我提醒你，我從事這個行業還不到幾個月。但我會嘗試一下，並就我們應該把時間花在哪些方面，向你提供我的第一手觀察。

So I think first and foremost, those familiar with the marketplace will know that this is very much a promotionally driven market at the moment and has been since they started the rollout of fiber. I think we've done pretty well actually considering the level of aggressiveness that we've seen in the marketplace on not fumble pricing but on promotions.

因此我認為，首先，熟悉市場的人都會知道，目前這是一個由促銷驅動的市場，自從他們開始推出光纖以來一直如此。我認為，考慮到我們在市場上看到的不是定價失誤而是促銷方面的積極程度，我們實際上做得相當不錯了。

My focus has very much been and will remain in the short term, looking at how we manage churn at this point. I think we have a fabulous proposition to take our consumers, to answer part of your second question. Beyond the speed which we bring today, and we reiterate our confidence in not only the network we have today, but the road map that we have with DOCSIS to bring faster speeds to our customers to compete, but also with the broader part of the portfolio.

我的重點一直是、並且仍將是在短期內，研究我們如何管理此時的客戶流失。我認為我們有一個極好的主張來帶給消費者，以回答您的第二個問題的一部分。除了我們今天帶來的速度之外，我們重申我們不僅對我們今天的網路有信心，而且我們與 DOCSIS 的路線圖也一樣，可以為我們的客戶帶來更快的速度來進行競爭，同時也能與更廣泛的產品組合進行競爭。

We've added UEFA, as you know, which we think gives us differentiation in the marketplace. We have a brilliant TV platform, which with the mini box we increasingly shipped to our customers, which is a fantastic and competitive experience.

如你所知，我們添加了歐足聯，我們認為這使我們在市場上脫穎而出。我們擁有出色的電視平台，並透過迷你盒子不斷向客戶發貨，這是一種奇妙且具有競爭力的體驗。

But also, we have, I think, so we still have headroom on FMC. We still have an incredible business in Vodafone, a great set of packages in prices. And when brought together, we think makes for a really fantastic and valuable service for our VodafoneZiggo customers.

但同時我認為，我們在 FMC 方面仍有發展空間。我們在沃達豐仍然擁有令人難以置信的業務，並提供一系列價格優惠的套餐。我們認為，當這些結合在一起時，將為我們的 VodafoneZiggo 客戶帶來真正出色和有價值的服務。

We also have Hollandsnieuwe, which is a flanker brand that allows us to compete more directly with sort of the price, takes the price meters. I think we can do more with that. In terms of pricing, I don't see things changing in the short term. We see everywhere where fiber rolls out, we go through a phase of just high competitiveness as they try and fill in networks. But my priority is to focus specifically on, as I said before, managing the churn part of it by bringing our customers more value with the Wyre proposition. And using our flanker brands to drive volume -- a bit more volume where we can. But you'll hear more on that in the sort of coming quarters as our plan for VodafoneZiggo evolves.

我們還有 Hollandsnieuwe，這是一個側翼品牌，讓我們能夠以價格更直接的方式競爭，採用價格計。我認為我們可以做得更多。就定價而言，我認為短期內不會改變。我們看到，在光纖鋪設的地方，人們都試圖填補網路空白，並經歷了一個高度競爭的階段。但正如我之前所說，我的首要任務是專注於管理客戶流失，透過 Wyre 的提議為我們的客戶帶來更多價值。並利用我們的側翼品牌來推動銷售量——在可能的情況下增加一些銷售量。但隨著我們對 VodafoneZiggo 的計劃不斷發展，您將在未來幾季聽到更多有關該消息的消息。

Steve Malcolm, Redburn.

史蒂夫·馬爾科姆，雷德伯恩。

Yeah. I'll go for two if I can. Just on sort of [remain co] shareholder distributions and thoughts on. Can you maybe just sort of give us an update on where your thinking is on that and when you might sort of come back to us and give us a clearer view on how you want to return upstream cash when the spin is done?

是的。如果可以的話我會去兩個。只是關於[繼續保持]股東分配和想法。您能否向我們更新您對此的想法，以及您什麼時候會回來告訴我們更清晰的信息，即在旋轉完成後您希望如何返還上游現金？

And then on just coming back to the UK, you mentioned the sort of the growing number of press stories or an augment distress and companies kind of almost giving up, got TalkTalk volumes trading in the kind of low 60s. Just maybe a sense from what and where we are on sort of market consolidation, whether you're seeing more companies knocking your door, whether we should expect 2025 to be a year of kind of fairly intense activity on that front? Because it feels like we're kind of waiting for the storm to hit, but it certainly hasn't quite happened yet, but that would be great.

然後回到英國，您提到了越來越多的新聞報導或日益增加的困擾以及公司幾乎放棄的情況，導致 TalkTalk 的交易量降至 60% 以下。也許從我們在市場整合方面的狀況和所處位置可以感覺到，是否會看到更多公司敲你的門，我們是否應該預計 2025 年將成為該方面活動相當激烈的一年？因為感覺我們正在等待暴風雨的來臨，但它肯定還沒到來，但如果有的話就太好了。

Listen, on the first question, chuckle because I have told everybody they're not allowed to use the word remain co in our company because when you do the math, actually, remain co is 90% as big as the current co. So when we talk about Liberty Global going forward, minus the Sunrise business, which is a fantastic business, but relatively small in the scheme of things.

聽著，對於第一個問題，您可能笑了，因為我已經告訴過所有人，在我們公司，他們不允許使用“保留”這個詞，因為如果您算一下，實際上，“保留”的規模是當前規模的 90%。因此，當我們談論 Liberty Global 的未來時，除了 Sunrise 業務，這是一項很棒的業務，但從整體來看規模相對較小。

It's exactly as I indicated in my prepared remarks, which is that with respect to the telecom businesses in the value creation strategy is going to look a lot like the Sunrise strategy. What do I mean by that? Well, we're going to be, first and foremost, driving commercial momentum and getting the businesses to perform the way they need to perform around revenue, EBITDA and free cash flow ultimately.

正如我在準備好的演講中所指出的，對於電信業務而言，價值創造策略將非常類似於日出策略。我這樣說是什麼意思？嗯，我們首先要推動商業發展勢頭，並讓企業最終按照其需要的方式運作，包括收入、EBITDA 和自由現金流。

Secondly, as we're doing in the UK and in Belgium and even in Ireland, infrastructure matters, and how we go about building, partnering, financing networks is both going to be, I think, a very positive thing for the operations, but also a positive thing for the story we're going to tell about these businesses and the end games when they arrive.

其次，正如我們在英國、比利時甚至愛爾蘭所做的那樣，基礎設施很重要，而我們如何建立、合作和融資網絡，我認為這不僅對營運有非常積極的影響，而且對我們講述這些業務以及它們到達時的最終結果也有積極的影響。

And then lastly, I mentioned deleveraging into strategic transactions, whatever those might look like. I think in each case, we see opportunity to create, whether it's listed companies, spin offs or other transactions where the unrecognized value today in our stock price would be clear as a bell, just as it has become with Sunrise. I could go back and describe every analyst report from three years ago. Nobody was putting $12 on Sunrise.

最後，我提到了去槓桿化進入策略交易，無論它們是什麼樣子。我認為在每種情況下，我們都看到了創造的機會，無論是上市公司、分拆或其他交易，今天我們股價中未被確認的價值將會清晰可見，就像 Sunrise 的情況一樣。我可以回顧並描述三年前的每一份分析師報告。沒人願意在 Sunrise 上投入 12 美元。

So I think we have to be patient, number one, because I don't want to get people too excited that something is going to be happening next week or next month or next quarter. But on the other hand, I can promise you that there is a sense of urgency and commitment on my part and on the part of management to continue to pursue these types of opportunities where we can create transparency around valuation and for the benefit of the stock price. Yeah, go ahead.

所以我認為我們必須要有耐心，這是第一，因為我不想讓人們對下週、下個月或下個季度將要發生的事情過於興奮。但另一方面，我可以向你們保證，我和管理階層都有一種緊迫感和承諾，我們會繼續尋求這類機會，使估值透明化，並有利於股價。嗯，請說。

Mike, just sort of clarify, I'm thinking more about the sort of pace of buybacks. Obviously, the Liberty Global post-Sunrise, excuse my description of remain co, it's going to be a smaller company. There's going to be a bit less liquidity out there. Should we still expect 100% of organic cash flow to be used to return to buy back shares? Just the thinking around that, clearly, you've got a million opportunity out there, but just buying back stock is going to be a little bit harder because liquidity is going to be lower. Just thoughts on that would be great.

麥克，請澄清一下，我更多考慮的是回購的速度。顯然，Liberty Global 在日出之後，請原諒我對留守公司的描述，它將成為一家規模較小的公司。外面的流動性將會減少一些。我們是否仍應預期 100% 的有機現金流用於回購股票？只要這樣想，顯然你就有百萬個機會，但回購股票就會變得有點困難，因為流動性會降低。只要想到這一點就很棒了。

Sure. Well, buying stock might be a little harder because the market cap may be smaller than we hope it's not. On the other hand, if the market cap is smaller than we're putting less capital to work to achieve the same results. So I think the buyback for us remains an important piece of the equation. And we've historically been in that 10% range. Let's see what 2025 guidance present. But at the same time, as the company becomes smaller because we are dividending to shareholders real value, then obviously continuing to be a buyer of our stock becomes a less cash requirement, a smaller cash requirement to do that.

當然。嗯，買股票可能會有點困難，因為市值可能比我們希望的還要小。另一方面，如果市值較小，我們投入的資本就會較少，以達到相同的結果。因此我認為回購對我們來說仍然是方程式中的一個重要部分。從歷史上看，我們的這一比例一直處於 10% 的範圍內。讓我們看看2025年的指導方針是什麼。但同時，由於我們向股東派發紅利，公司規模變得越來越小，那麼顯然繼續購買我們的股票對現金的需求就會減少，為此所需的現金需求就會減少。

So I'm not going to be specific with you here about when and how much, except to say that I think I would argue the buyback perhaps becomes even easier when you think about cash allocation or capital allocation because the market cap could be smaller, should be smaller given the distributions that we intend to make. On the UK AltNets, Lutz, do you want to jump in there? You heard my remarks on the call, but you can add to that anything you want.

因此，我不會在這裡具體告訴你何時回購以及回購多少，我只想說，當你考慮現金分配或資本分配時，回購可能會變得更加容易，因為考慮到我們打算進行的分配，市值可能會更小，應該更小。關於英國 AltNets，Lutz，你想加入嗎？您聽到了我在通話中的發言，但您可以補充任何您想補充的內容。

Yeah. Thank you. Well, for me, the picture of musical chairs, right? So the music still plays, and most of the AltNets are running around the table. But it becomes more and more clear that the majority of them are not sitting on a sustainable business model, right? The build costs have been too high. Penetration doesn't get where it needs to be, like some in certain niches have found their place, but the majority haven't found it.

是的。謝謝。嗯，對我來說，這是一張搶椅子的圖片，對吧？音樂仍在播放，大多數 AltNet 仍在桌子周圍跑動。但越來越明顯的是，其中大多數都沒有可持續的商業模式，對嗎？建設成本太高了。滲透率還沒有達到應有的水平，就像某些特定領域的一些人找到了自己的位置，但大多數人還沒有找到。

And I think what's happening is that, obviously, some of them get another funding round. Some of them merged together and inflates both of the equity and therefore keep dreaming. And most of them are also knocking on our door, and there's conversations, but the question is the valuation, right?

我認為現在的情況是，其中一些公司顯然獲得了另一輪融資。其中一些合併在一起並誇大了雙方的股權，因此繼續做夢。他們中的大多數人也都在敲我們的門，並且進行對話，但問題是估值，對嗎？

And so therefore, I think still it's hard to paint the picture, how will it all work out. But one thing is clear, it's not sustainable for AltNets to keep doing what they are doing, right? So something will happen. And we are prepared to participate in that. We are in a very small way impacted by these massive, aggressive promotions from AltNets, but also our churn didn't go through the roof, which if I turn it around, if -- right, I mean, we lost maybe 2,000, 3,000 more customers to churn this quarter compared to a year ago, AltNets can't live from that.

因此，我認為仍然很難描繪出這一切將會如何發展。但有一點很清楚，AltNets 繼續做現在的事情是不可持續的，對嗎？所以會發生一些事情。我們已準備好參與其中。我們受到 AltNets 這些大規模、激進促銷活動的影響很小，但我們的客戶流失率也沒有大幅上升，如果我反過來想的話，如果——對，我的意思是，與一年前相比，本季度我們可能流失了 2,000 到 3,000 名客戶，那麼 AltNets 將無法維持下去。

So therefore, I agree with Mike, the market will get more rational. But it's hard to predict these today, how it ultimately will work out. But I think we will be prepared to participate in that.

因此，我同意麥克的觀點，市場將變得更加理性。但今天很難預測最終結果會是如何。但我認為我們已準備好參與其中。

Ulrich Rathe, Bernstein Societe General Group.

伯恩斯坦法國興業銀行集團的烏爾里希‧拉特 (Ulrich Rathe)。

I wanted to ask about broadband net adds in the quarter in Switzerland and the Netherlands. So first on Switzerland. In the release, you talked about reduced churn, but you qualified that by saying you have reduced churn in the main brand. Could you comment a little bit about what the flanker brand is doing in broadband in Switzerland at the moment?

我想詢問瑞士和荷蘭本季的寬頻淨增量情況。首先談談瑞士。在新聞稿中，您談到了減少客戶流失，但您限定說您已經減少了主品牌的客戶流失。您能否評論一下 Flanker 品牌目前在瑞士寬頻領域的發展？

And the second question is on the Netherlands. There has been a slight step back in the quarter. I think in the release, you're talking about a slower quarter. The question I really have is, why is UEFA really no benefit at this point? I mean, you have started marketing it, as I understand it. Why don't we see a bigger effect than the sort of slight improvement? I think it was like 2,000 quarter-on-quarter improvement on the losses in broadband. Could you comment a little bit about what you expect from this UEFA marketing?

第二個問題是關於荷蘭的。本季略有倒退。我認為在發布會上您談論的是較慢的季度。我真正想問的是，為什麼歐足總現在真的沒有任何好處呢？我的意思是，據我了解，你們已經開始行銷它了。為什麼我們沒有看到比輕微改善更大的效果呢？我認為寬頻損失比上一季改善了 2,000%。能否稍微談談對此次歐足總行銷的期望？

Andre, you want to pick up the Swiss question first?

安德烈，你想先回答瑞士的問題嗎？

Sure. Yeah. So on the flanker brand, we have not seen any meaningful change quarter-on-quarter. But the reality is also that this is a quite young fixed customer base, in particular. And as such, we are seeing more customers running into the first time where they can actually churn off. Hence, we see some impact on that. But it's not a meaningful impact on the total number. So in total, really what drives the positive evolution is a good inflow and also in absolute terms, the overall churn reduction that we see across the brands.

當然。是的。因此，對於側翼品牌而言，我們沒有看到季度環比發生任何有意義的變化。但現實情況是，這是一個相當年輕的固定客戶群。因此，我們看到越來越多的客戶第一次真正流失。因此，我們看到了一定的影響。但這對總數並沒有產生重大影響。因此，總的來說，真正推動積極發展的是良好的流入，並且從絕對意義上講，我們看到各個品牌的整體客戶流失率有所減少。

James Ratzer, New Street Research.

詹姆斯‧拉澤 (James Ratzer)，New Street Research。

Yeah. Thank you very much --

是的。非常感謝--

(multiple speakers) I want to be sure we get to that question. Stephen, do you want to address that? Sorry, they awkwardly jumped in there. Go ahead, Stephen.

（多位發言者）我想確保我們能夠討論這個問題。史蒂芬，你想解決這個問題嗎？抱歉，他們笨拙地跳了進去。繼續吧，史蒂芬。

Yeah, Mike. No problem. I'll get that. So first and foremost, we're very pleased in the UEFA product for us. I think you got a question for timing issue. The first games only started at the end of August. It covers only really less than a month of our performance on UEFA. It will take some time to build. We've signed up a number of customers who are not part of Vodafone as we go through the Sky -- the Ziggo app, free app, which gives us a fabulous place to market to our customers. And so we did see, as you rightly mentioned, we did see some pickup in the quarter, but we haven't really seen the full force of UEFA through our marketing or through our numbers just yet. You have to wait for that.

是的，麥克。沒問題。我會明白的。因此首先，我們對歐足總的產品感到非常滿意。我認為你對時間問題有疑問。第一場比賽直到八月底才開始。它實際上只涵蓋了我們在歐足總不到一個月的表現。建造它需要一些時間。我們透過 Sky-Ziggo 應用程式（免費應用程式）簽署了許多不屬於沃達豐的客戶，這為我們向客戶推銷產品提供了絕佳的平台。因此，正如您所正確提到的，我們確實看到本季度有所回升，但我們還沒有透過行銷或數據真正看到歐足總的全部力量。你必須等待這一點。

Okay. Operator?

好的。操作員？

Yeah. Thank you. Mike, can you hear me?

是的。謝謝。麥克，你聽得到我說話嗎？

Yeah. Got you.

是的。明白了。

Yeah. Great. Yes, James here, yes. I'd be really interested if possible, focusing on slide 15 in your presentation pack in the appendix where you've got some helpful breakdown showing the revenue trends for consumer fixed and for consumer mobile service revenue across your four main businesses. So kind of eight metrics there. And what I can't help but notice this quarter is that all eight of those, the trends have got worse from Q2 to Q3. And six out of the eight are in negative territory. That's between gigs and mobile across the four businesses.

是的。偉大的。是的，詹姆斯在這裡，是的。如果可能的話，我會非常感興趣，請專注於附錄中簡報的第 15 張投影片，其中有一些有用的分類，顯示了您四個主要業務中的消費者固定和消費者行動服務收入趨勢。那裡有 8 個指標。本季我不禁注意到，所有這 8 家公司的趨勢從第二季到第三季都惡化。八個當中六個處於負值區域。這是四家公司在演出和行動業務方面的差距。

So I'm certainly thinking kind of looking ahead into 2025, 2026, what do you think you need to do to actually turn that trend around to be more positive? Does this rely on price rises? Does this rely on adding on ancillary products? How do we turn that revenue trend around to be more positive? And specifically, given you give the disclosure, I also can't help but notice that consumer mobile for Virgin Media slipped from minus 0.4% last quarter to now, minus 4.8%. That's quite a big change in the quarter. Just interested in digging into that one in a bit more detail as well, please.

所以我當然在思考展望 2025 年、2026 年，您認為需要做些什麼才能真正扭轉這種趨勢，使其變得更加積極？這靠漲價嗎？這是否依賴於添加輔助產品？我們如何扭轉收入趨勢，使其更加積極？具體來說，鑑於您披露的訊息，我不禁注意到維珍媒體的消費者行動業務從上一季的負 0.4% 下滑到現在的負 4.8%。這是本季的一個相當大的變化。我也想更詳細地探討一下這個問題。

Sure. So Lutz, you can get ready to deal with the VMO2 number specifically. And we do print this every quarter. We want you to see it. And historically, it's, I think, a good way to piece the -- break the business apart, understand the various bits. Every market has a different explanation. Right? I mean, we're still very green in VodafoneZiggo. You heard Stephen's comments, that's positive. This is both a value and a volume equation for each market. So price rises this year are much lower than prior years. And in the prior quarter from -- in Q2, Q3 last year, we were taking pretty big price rises.

當然。所以 Lutz，你可以準備好專門處理 VMO2 號碼。我們每季都會列印此頁。我們希望你能看到它。從歷史上看，我認為這是分解業務、了解各個部分的好方法。每個市場都有不同的解釋。正確的？我的意思是，我們 VodafoneZiggo 還處於初級階段。你聽到了史蒂芬的評論，這是正面的。對每個市場來說，這既是價值方程，也是數量方程。因此今年的價格漲幅比前幾年要低得多。而在上一季度，也就是去年第二季和第三季度，我們的價格上漲幅度相當大。

So I think inevitably, if you want to make general comments, a part of that is smaller price increases, or in the case of Switzerland, certainly no price increases this year. And that is always going to be a year-over-year comparator and impacting that number. And then every market, it's a slightly different storyline. And I think whether it's some cases getting back to high volumes as we're starting to do and hope to do in the UK In other cases, the price you want to just raise. I'm thinking of mobile specifically.

因此，我認為，如果你想做出一般性評論，不可避免的一部分是價格上漲幅度較小，或者就瑞士的情況而言，今年肯定不會漲價。這始終是一個同比比較的結果，並且會影響該數字。每個市場都有略微不同的故事情節。我認為，無論是在某些情況下，還是像我們在英國開始做的那樣，恢復到高銷量，還是在其他情況下，你只想提高價格。我特別考慮的是行動裝置。

I would say, though, that in fixed, we are seeing really strong ARPU, as you saw on the slide that I presented ARPU growth almost everywhere being pretty positive. And that, in the long run, as we get volume to pick up again, it's going to be a really positive thing. I'd much rather be holding ARPU and/or growing ARPU with the expectation of driving volume in broadband. And I think so we're well positioned going into '25 to try to do that. Lutz, do you want to speak about VMO2 specifically?

不過，我想說的是，在固定資產中，我們看到了非常強勁的 ARPU，正如你在幻燈片上看到的，我在幻燈片上展示了幾乎所有地方的 ARPU 成長都非常積極。從長遠來看，隨著交易量的回升，這將是一件非常積極的事情。我更願意維持 ARPU 值和/或提高 ARPU 值，以期推動寬頻業務量的成長。我認為，我們已經準備好在25年實現這一目標。盧茨，您想具體談談 VMO2 嗎？

Yeah. To build on that, so probably on the -- on the consumer fixed side -- I mean, first of all, you apply the price rise in the UK in quarter 2. And so therefore, it's clear that in quarter 3, customers had the chance already to react to it and to lower it. Now on the fixed side, we are very, very proud about the 2.4% growth because we have managed to keep the majority of the price rise in the customer growth. And this is when you look back, this is the first time again since three years. So we have absolutely a trend break in the UK fixed. And now -- since '21, the first year again, that we are growing in Q3 in fixed service revenue.

是的。在此基礎上，可能在——在消費者固定方面——我的意思是，首先，你應用英國第二季的價格上漲。因此，很明顯，在第三季度，客戶已經有機會對此做出反應並降低價格。現在在固定方面，我們對 2.4％ 的成長感到非常自豪，因為我們已成功將大部分價格上漲保持在客戶成長中。現在回想起來，這還是三年來的第一次。因此，我們完全確定了英國的趨勢突破。現在——自 21 年以來，這也是第一年，我們在第三季的固定服務收入成長。

I think on the mobile service revenue side, if I'm not mistaken, here the way Liberty Global has presented that there are the handset insurance sales in it. And so this is the one-off Charlie spoke about at the beginning of the call. And I think when you take that out, then you get to a mobile service revenue around minus 1.1%, if I'm not mistaken. And so it got a bit worse than Q2. Same thing, people reacting to price rise. And the last year's comparator is very tough because we did a price rise of 17% or something, if I'm not mistaken.

我認為在行動服務收入方面，如果我沒記錯的話，Liberty Global 所呈現的方式是其中包含手機保險銷售。這就是查理在通話開始時談到的一次性事件。我認為，如果你去掉這一部分，那麼行動服務收入將下降約 1.1%，如果我沒記錯的話。所以情況比第二季更糟。同樣的事情，人們對價格上漲做出反應。如果我沒記錯的話，去年的價格上漲了 17% 左右，因此與去年的比較非常困難。

And in the long term, how we will take it around on the mobile side to get also to the same green numbers than we see in fixed. It's what Mike said at the beginning, we have a very clear customer data of every customer in our customer base. We have now using AI and we have the personal pricing packaging, and that is a machine that helps us to optimize the retained revenue in fixed. And I think it wouldn't surprise anybody that we are building the same thing for mobile and then we can play it also for convergence.

從長遠來看，我們如何在行動端實現與固定端相同的綠色數字。正如 Mike 一開始所說的，我們對客戶群中的每位客戶都有非常清晰的客戶資料。我們現在使用人工智慧並且擁有個人化定價包裝，這是一台可以幫助我們優化固定留存收入的機器。我認為，我們為行動裝置建造相同的東西並且我們也可以將其用於融合，這並不會讓任何人感到驚訝。

Thanks, Lutz. Andre, you want to talk about (inaudible)? Yeah. Thanks. Andre?

謝謝，盧茨。安德烈，你想談談（聽不清楚）？是的。謝謝。安德烈？

Yeah. So I would say pretty much driven by the fact that our price rise last year was on the first of July. So we have a full annualization. That's why you see a quarter-on-quarter deterioration of the numbers, by and large. Then I would say on the fixed side, as you know, we are migrating many customers in the last quarter alone, 120,000 former UPC customers over to the Sunrise portfolio that comes with some right pricing pressure, and we have talked about that in our Capital Markets Day as well. That should come towards an end by the end of this year.

是的。因此，我想說，這很大程度上是由於我們去年的價格上漲是在 7 月 1 日。因此我們有一個完整的年度化資料。這就是為什麼你會看到數據總體上逐季惡化。然後我想說，在固定方面，如你所知，僅在上個季度，我們就將許多客戶，120,000 名前 UPC 客戶遷移到 Sunrise 投資組合，這帶來了一些正確的定價壓力，我們也在資本市場日討論過這個問題。這一狀況將在今年底結束。

And thirdly, I think an important element to note is also that the third quarter always has a higher seasonal exposure to roaming, and we are seeing more and more of the roaming consumption being included in larger tariffs, which we have been selling through more for more campaigns in the past year. So as such, those three components are explaining the evolution of the numbers from Q2 to Q3.

第三，我認為需要注意的一個重要因素是，第三季的漫遊季節性影響總是較大，而且我們看到越來越多的漫遊消費被納入更高的資費標準中，過去一年來，我們透過更多的活動銷售更多的漫遊消費。因此，這三個組成部分解釋了從第二季度到第三季度的數字的變化。

Dhruva Shah, UBS.

瑞銀的 Dhruva Shah。

Just digging into the postpaid net add momentum in the UK a bit more. So you obviously showed a marked improvement in the quarter this year. But is that due to any significant change in competitive dynamics in the market? And if not, what VMO2 done differently to minimize those losses? And then going forward, should we expect those losses to inflect into growth in Q4 and stay there in 2025?

只需深入研究英國的後付費網路增量動能即可。因此，您在今年季度顯然取得了顯著的進步。但這是否由於市場競爭態勢而發生了重大變化？如果不是，VMO2 採取了哪些不同措施來盡量減少這些損失？那麼展望未來，我們是否應該預期這些損失將在第四季度轉化為成長並在 2025 年保持這種狀態？

Lutz, do you want to address that?

盧茨，你想解決這個問題嗎？

Yes, sure. So we don't see any material changes in the market. So the market is very competitive. And the low end of the market, MVNO such as [IB Mobile], right, they are very aggressive, and this is the only part of the market where you really see growth. Why are we doing so much better?

是的，當然。因此我們沒有看到市場發生任何重大變化。所以市場競爭非常激烈。而在低端市場，諸如 [IB Mobile] 之類的 MVNO，他們非常積極，這是市場中唯一真正看到成長的部分。為什麼我們的表現這麼好？

I think three levers: one, we have optimized the way we are selling hardware, and we have, right, a very good deal with Apple, with Samsung, and we are passing this through to our customers in a good way. Second, we have optimized the way how we do upgrades and therefore lowing the churn. And thirdly, I mean, we have migrated all Virgin Mobile customers to become O2 customers. And not all of them did like that. And the ones who didn't like it have now left in the meantime. So you don't see these impact anymore.

我認為有三個槓桿：第一，我們優化了銷售硬體的方式，我們與蘋果、三星達成了非常好的協議，我們正在以良好的方式將這種協議傳遞給我們的客戶。其次，我們優化了升級方式，進而降低了客戶流失率。第三，我的意思是，我們已將所有 Virgin Mobile 客戶轉變為 O2 客戶。但並非所有人都這麼做。而那些不喜歡它的人現在已經離開了。所以你不再看到這些影響。

I mean, we are not giving a guidance for Q4. But we believe, right, I mean, Black Friday is coming. And we put a lot of effort in to have strong competitive offers. We have a great Christmas campaign, wait for it. And so we are here to grow, right? This is our ambition, but we don't give a guidance here. So it's absolutely our ambition to not see this trend break only in Q3, but also now in the most important quarter of the year.

我的意思是，我們沒有給出第四季的指引。但我們相信，對的，我的意思是，黑色星期五即將到來。我們付出了很多努力來提供具有競爭力的報價。我們有一個很棒的聖誕節活動，敬請期待。所以我們來這裡是為了成長，對嗎？這是我們的目標，但我們不在這裡提供指導。因此，我們的目標是不僅在第三季度看到這一趨勢被打破，而且現在在這一年中最重要的一個季度也看到這一趨勢被打破。

All right. I've got time for one more question, operator.

好的。接線員，我還有時間再回答一個問題。

There are no questions registered at this time. That will conclude the question-and-answer session.

目前還沒有登記任何問題。問答環節到此結束。

Thanks, everybody, for joining. And just a reminder, in 30 minutes, Andre and team will be back on with the Sunrise only earnings presentation. Hoping you could dial into that. And as a reminder, on November 1, we'll have a briefing for anyone focused on the mechanics of the spin itself. And we appreciate you joining, and we'll speak to you soon. Take care.

感謝大家的加入。提醒一下，30 分鐘後，安德烈和他的團隊將回來進行 Sunrise 的收益演示。希望您能撥打該號碼。提醒一下，11 月 1 日，我們將為所有人舉行簡報會，重點介紹旋轉本身的機制。我們感謝您的加入，我們很快就會與您聯繫。小心。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes Liberty Global's third quarter 2024 investor call. As a reminder, a replay of the call will be available in the Investor Relations section of Liberty Global's website. There, you can also find a copy of today's presentation materials.

女士們、先生們，Liberty Global 2024 年第三季投資人電話會議到此結束。提醒一下，此次電話會議的重播將在 Liberty Global 網站的投資者關係部分提供。您還可以在那裡找到今天的演示材料的副本。