Liberty Global Ltd (LBTYA) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Liberty Global's First Quarter 2024 Investor Call. This call and the associated webcast are the property of Liberty Global, and any redistribution, retransmission or rebroadcast of this call or webcast in any form without the express written consent of Liberty Global is strictly prohibited. (Operator Instructions).

早安，女士們先生們，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 Liberty Global 2024 年第一季投資者電話會議。本次電話會議及相關網路廣播均屬於 Liberty Global 的財產，未經 Liberty Global 明確書面同意，嚴禁以任何形式重新分發、轉播或轉播本次電話會議或網路廣播。 （操作員說明）。

Today's formal presentation materials can be found under the Investor Relations section of Liberty Global's website at libertyglobal.com. After today's formal presentation, instructions will be given for a question-and-answer session. Page 2 of the slides details the company's safe harbor statement regarding forward-looking statements.

今天的正式簡報資料可以在 Liberty Global 網站 libertyglobal.com 的投資者關係部分找到。今天的正式演講結束後，將進行問答環節。投影片的第 2 頁詳細介紹了公司有關前瞻性陳述的安全港聲明。

Today's presentation may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including the company's expectations with respect to its outlook and future growth prospects and other information and statements that are not historical fact. These forward-looking statements involve certain risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these statements. These risks include those detailed in Liberty Global's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its most recently filed Forms 10-Q and 10-K as amended. Liberty Global disclaims any obligation to update any of these forward-looking statements to reflect any change in its expectations or in the conditions on which any such statement is based.

今天的簡報可能包含 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的前瞻性陳述，包括公司對其前景和未來成長前景的預期以及非歷史事實的其他資訊和陳述。這些前瞻性陳述涉及某些風險，可能導致實際結果與這些陳述明示或暗示的結果有重大差異。這些風險包括 Liberty Global 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中詳細說明的風險，包括最近提交的修訂後的 10-Q 表格和 10-K 表格。 Liberty Global 不承擔更新任何這些前瞻性陳述以反映其期望或任何此類陳述所依據的條件的任何變更的義務。

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Mike Fries.

我現在想把電話轉給麥克·弗里斯先生。

Hello, everyone, and thanks for joining our first quarter investor call. Charlie and I are going to handle the prepared remarks, as we usually do. And then during the Q&A, I'll get other folks from our management team involved as needed.

大家好，感謝您參加我們的第一季投資者電話會議。查理和我將像往常一樣處理準備好的發言。然後在問答過程中，我將根據需要讓我們管理團隊的其他人員參與其中。

And to get us started, I going to jump right in on Slide 4 with 3 key takeaways from Q1. First of all, on our last call, we articulated a strategic plan to both create and deliver value to shareholders. The rationale for that plan was pretty clear. Despite repositioning our operating perimeter over the last 5 to 7 years with timely market exits and end market consolidations, despite purchasing nearly 60% of our shares. And despite successful redomiciling to Bermuda, we continue to trade at a substantial discount to our sum of the parts or net asset value.

為了讓我們開始，我將直接跳到投影片 4，介紹第一季的 3 個關鍵要點。首先，在上次電話會議中，我們制定了一項策略計劃，旨在為股東創造和交付價值。該計劃的理由非常清楚。儘管在過去 5 到 7 年裡我們透過及時退出市場和終端市場整合重新定位了我們的經營範圍，儘管購買了我們近 60% 的股份。儘管成功遷至百慕達，但我們的交易價格仍較各部分總和或資產淨值大幅折扣。

So as we stated in February from this point forward, we are focused on maximizing the intrinsic value of our core assets and where possible, delivering that value to shareholders over time. Towards that end, we made 5 announcements last quarter. In the last 10 weeks or so, we've actually made some substantial progress on each of them, in particular, our plans to list our Swiss operating business and spin off those shares to our stockholders. More on all of these in just a moment.

因此，正如我們在二月所說，從現在開始，我們專注於最大化核心資產的內在價值，並在可能的情況下，隨著時間的推移向股東提供該價值。為此，我們上季發布了 5 項公告。在過去 10 週左右的時間裡，我們實際上在每個方面都取得了一些實質進展，特別是我們計劃將我們的瑞士營運業務上市並將這些股票分拆給我們的股東。稍後將詳細介紹所有這些內容。

Second, with continued uncertainty in the macro environment, particularly around interest rates. We think it's smart to keep reminding everyone of how strong our balance sheet is today and tomorrow. Charlie will cover the details, including recent refinancings, but we're sitting on $3.2 billion of consolidated cash, which rises to $3.9 billion if you include liquid securities, and we continue to benefit from a long-term fixed rate credit structure. We also remain extremely disciplined when it comes to capital allocation at the corporate level, whether it's our buyback program or selective deleveraging or strategic venture investments, each of these things will drive returns to the business and to shareholders over time.

其次，宏觀環境持續存在不確定性，特別是利率方面。我們認為不斷提醒大家我們今天和明天的資產負債表有多強是明智之舉。查理將介紹細節，包括最近的再融資，但我們擁有 32 億美元的綜合現金，如果包括流動性證券，這一數字將上升至 39 億美元，而且我們將繼續受益於長期固定利率信貸結構。在公司層級的資本配置方面，我們也保持嚴格的紀律，無論是我們的回購計畫還是選擇性去槓桿化或策略性創投，隨著時間的推移，這些事情都將為企業和股東帶來回報。

And then finally, we're investing for growth across our FMC telco footprint. For example, our fiber upgrade and extension plans in the U.K., in Ireland and Belgium are picking up speed, and we're on track to reach roughly 20 million fiber-to-the-home premises by the end of 2026, and that represents just about 50% of an expanded 40 million home footprint. 5G is the same story, where in addition to consumer and competitive retail benefits, we also are starting to see real B2B opportunities emerge for mobile private networks and network slicing and IoT applications. And then finally, like our peers, we believe the investments we're making in digital NII will be game changers for us.

最後，我們正在投資以促進 FMC 電信業務的成長。例如，我們在英國、愛爾蘭和比利時的光纖升級和擴展計劃正在加快步伐，到 2026 年底，我們預計將達到約 2000 萬個光纖到戶場所，這意味著僅佔擴大後的4000 萬戶住宅面積的50 %。 5G 也是同樣的情況，除了消費者和有競爭力的零售優勢之外，我們也開始看到行動專用網路、網路切片和物聯網應用出現真正的 B2B 機會。最後，與我們的同行一樣，我們相信我們在數位 NII 方面的投資將改變我們的遊戲規則。

Now let me dive into each of these over the next few slides. Beginning on Slide 5, which recaps the 3 core building blocks of the strategic plan we laid out for you last quarter and the steps we've taken since then. So starting on the left-hand side of the slide, first and foremost, we're focused on maximizing the value of our FMC telco operations in every market. As a reminder, these operations in the aggregate serve 85 million fixed to mobile connections, generate over $25 billion of annual revenue and $9.3 billion of annual EBITDA. They're generally #1 or #2 in just about every product with outstanding brands and outstanding management teams, and we believe they are valued at 0 in our stock price.

現在讓我在接下來的幾張投影片中深入探討其中的每一個。從幻燈片 5 開始，它回顧了我們上季度為您制定的戰略計劃的 3 個核心組成部分以及我們自那時以來採取的步驟。因此，從幻燈片左側開始，首先也是最重要的是，我們致力於最大限度地提高 FMC 電信業務在每個市場的價值。需要提醒的是，這些業務總共為 8,500 萬個固定到行動連線提供服務，產生超過 250 億美元的年收入和 93 億美元的年度 EBITDA。他們通常在幾乎所有產品中排名第一或第二，擁有出色的品牌和出色的管理團隊，我們相信他們的股價為 0。

Now needless to say, these are not easy businesses to manage. I think we make that point every quarter. Markets are competitive, consumers are under pressure and the capital intensity is high. But they are large subscription-based revenue streams with extremely attractive margins, and we're sitting at the center of the most exciting ecosystem on the planet. You name it, AI, digital, edge, metaverse, cloud, streaming all of these innovations driving unstop demand for bandwidth and connectivity. And whether we're driving better retail market share with digital and AI or expanding our B2B business with new 5G and ICT services or delayering to optimize the infrastructure values that are embedded in our operations. We think we have numerous strategic options for value creation in these FMC markets.

不用說，這些業務都不容易管理。我認為我們每個季度都會強調這一點。市場競爭激烈，消費者壓力大，資本密集度高。但它們是基於訂閱的巨大收入流，具有極具吸引力的利潤，而我們正處於地球上最令人興奮的生態系統的中心。你能想到的，人工智慧、數位、邊緣、元宇宙、雲端、串流媒體所有這些創新推動了對頻寬和連接的不間斷需求。無論我們是透過數位和人工智慧推動更好的零售市場份額，還是透過新的 5G 和 ICT 服務擴展我們的 B2B 業務，還是延遲優化我們營運中嵌入的基礎設施價值。我們認為，我們在這些 FMC 市場上有許多創造價值的策略選擇。

The second building block is our highly targeted and strategic investments in tech content and infrastructure that both support those core telco operations and provide the opportunity for significant value creation in their own right. It's hard to know how much of this $3 billion portfolio is being valued in our $6 billion market cap today, but we're actively managing these positions and where appropriate, crystallizing value. And then third is our renewed commitment to create and deliver value to shareholders. This will include continuing to shrink our equity, executing on the growth and strategic plans that should improve our trading multiples. And finally, where appropriate, putting value in your hands through spins and dividends and things like that.

第二個組成部分是我們對技術內容和基礎設施的高度針對性和策略性的投資，這些投資既支持這些核心電信業務，也提供了創造重大價值的機會。很難知道這個 30 億美元的投資組合在我們今天 60 億美元的市值中的價值是多少，但我們正在積極管理這些頭寸，並在適當的情況下具體化價值。第三是我們重新承諾為股東創造和交付價值。這將包括繼續縮減我們的股本，執行成長和策略計劃，以提高我們的交易倍數。最後，在適當的情況下，透過旋轉和股息等方式將價值交到您手中。

On the right-hand side of the slide, we provide an update on the 5 key steps we have publicly disclosed. Of course, there are many more initiatives we're not talking about today, but you should assume we're working on. Starting with our FMC champions, our plan is to carve out the fixed network in the U.K. and create a separate net code there are well underway. We've hired Deloitte and BCG to help us with the actual planning, processes and financials and without asking, have received significant inbound interest from infrastructure investors. That's not surprising. And this will be a substantial asset, which, if we were to include our next fiber JV, we'll reach 21 million fiber homes across the U.K. So stay tuned for more information about this. Secondly, we made good progress in the Benelux. Regarding our Benelux holdco, we continue to see the potential synergies across the Dutch and Belgium markets improve and that we're quietly entertaining indications of interest to actually invest in Liberty Global Benelux, at a meaningful premium I might add, to our trading multiple today.

在投影片的右側，我們提供了我們已公開披露的 5 個關鍵步驟的最新資訊。當然，還有更多的舉措我們今天沒有討論，但您應該假設我們正在努力。從我們的 FMC 冠軍開始，我們的計劃是在英國開闢固定網絡，並創建一個單獨的網絡代碼，目前正在順利進行中。我們聘請了德勤 (Deloitte) 和 BCG 來幫助我們進行實際規劃、流程和財務，並且無需詢問，就獲得了基礎設施投資者的大量入境興趣。這並不奇怪。這將是一筆巨大的資產，如果我們將下一個光纖合資企業納入其中，我們將涵蓋英國各地 2,100 萬個光纖家庭。其次，我們在比荷盧經濟聯盟取得了良好進展。關於我們的比荷盧控股公司，我們繼續看到荷蘭和比利時市場的潛在協同效應有所改善，並且我們正在悄悄地接受有興趣實際投資Liberty Global Benelux 的跡象，我可能會在我們今天的交易倍數中加入一個有意義的溢價。

On the ventures front, we have now received the approvals required to complete the sale of all 3 media for 12x EBITDA, and we expect that to close May 15. Again, this will result in $400 million of cash proceeds to us, which we then intend to invest in the Sunrise spin transaction. This is just one example of how our ventures portfolio creates valuable assets and then helps us fund our broader strategic initiatives. By the way, last year, we committed to realizing between $500 million and $1 billion in asset sales by the second half of '24. With the partial sell-down of towers in the U.K. and this all 3 media deal, we already surpassed $500 million, actually closer to $600 million. And just to let you know, we have an additional $300 million to $400 million in the pipeline which might be realized by year-end. And finally, we come to the main objective. And that, of course, is creating and delivering value to shareholders. Our stock buyback program remains a key part of that strategy, and we've now purchased approximately 3% of our shares year-to-date. And as you recall, we've authorized up to 10% of shares for 2024. And today, we have 372 million shares outstanding. That's down nearly 60% over 900 million shares at the end of 2017.

在創投方面，我們現在已收到完成所有3 個媒體的12 倍EBITDA 銷售所需的批准，我們預計該交易將於5 月15 日結束。收益，然後我們將擬投資Sunrise 分拆交易。這只是我們的創投組合如何創造有價值的資產，然後幫助我們為更廣泛的策略計畫提供資金的一個例子。順便說一句，去年我們承諾在 2024 年下半年實現 5 億至 10 億美元的資產出售。隨著英國塔樓的部分出售以及這 3 家媒體交易，我們已經超過了 5 億美元，實際上接近 6 億美元。想讓大家知道的是，我們還有 3 億至 4 億美元的資金正在籌備中，可能會在年底前實現。最後，我們來到了主要目標。當然，這就是為股東創造和交付價值。我們的股票回購計畫仍然是策略的關鍵部分，今年迄今我們已經購買了約 3% 的股票。正如您所記得的，我們已授權 2024 年最多持有 10% 的股份。截至 2017 年底，該股 9 億股下跌了近 60%。

Now perhaps most important of all is the value we expect to create with the separation and listing of Sunrise in Switzerland and then the subsequent spin-off of those shares in the fourth quarter of this year. And Slide 6 provides an update on where that transaction stands today. And perhaps just to recap the transaction rationale for a moment. I mean by listing Sunrise on the Swiss Exchange, the goal is to create a fully distributed local valuation for the company which will represent, we believe, a meaningful premium toward our stock trades or whatever value we're being attributed today. Now Sunrise equity story is compelling. Switzerland is a stable 3-player market where Sunrise stands out as the only pure-play national champion. Andre and the team have multiple growth levers in front of them. And then perhaps most importantly, significant free cash flow margins, which will underpin an attractive dividend story. We're targeting Q4 this year to complete the transaction, which will entail spinning off again 100% of the shares to Liberty Global shareholders. The current schedule is to file a confidential Form F-4 with the SEC next month.

現在也許最重要的是我們期望透過 Sunrise 在瑞士的分拆和上市以及隨後在今年第四季分拆這些股票所創造的價值。第 6 張投影片提供了該交易目前狀況的最新情況。也許只是回顧一下交易的基本原理。我的意思是，透過在瑞士交易所上市Sunrise，目標是為該公司創建一個完全分散的本地估值，我們相信，這將代表我們的股票交易或我們今天所賦予的任何價值的有意義的溢價。現在，Sunrise 股票的故事很引人注目。瑞士是一個穩定的三人遊戲市場，Sunrise 是唯一的純遊戲國家冠軍。安德烈和團隊面臨多種成長槓桿。然後也許最重要的是，可觀的自由現金流利潤率，這將支撐有吸引力的股息故事。我們的目標是在今年第四季完成交易，這將需要再次將 100% 的股份分拆給 Liberty Global 股東。目前的計劃是下個月向 SEC 提交一份機密的 F-4 表格。

As a reminder, we will be injecting CHF 1.5 billion or about $1.7 billion into Sunrise to delever the company pre-spin. Obviously, this will increase the equity value of the listed vehicle, which accrues directly to you in the form of a higher Sunrise stock price. And Charlie will talk about this math in a moment. And then funding the $1.7 billion will come from a combination of all 3 media proceeds, that's about $400 million. Sunrise free cash flow through the course of 2024, it's about plus or minus $400 million and then approximately $1 billion of corporate cash. Not surprisingly, at JPMorgan and UBS have been approached by both financial and strategic parties interested in potentially participating in this transaction, pre-listing. I'm still being -- going to say, we're in a listening mode, but we do not intend to slow the process down. And we are committed to proceeding either way. This transaction is happening.

提醒一下，我們將向 Sunrise 注入 15 億瑞士法郎（約 17 億美元），以消除該公司預分拆的槓桿作用。顯然，這將增加上市公司的股權價值，並以更高的 Sunrise 股價的形式直接為您帶來收益。查理稍後會討論這個數學。然後，17 億美元的資金將來自所有 3 家媒體收益的總和，約 4 億美元。 2024 年的日出自由現金流約為正負 4 億美元，然後是大約 10 億美元的企業現金。毫不奇怪，摩根大通和瑞銀都已與有意參與此項預上市交易的金融和策略方接洽。我仍然想說，我們處於傾聽模式，但我們並不打算放慢這個過程。我們致力於以任何一種方式進行。這筆交易正在發生。

And many of these groups are attracted to the dividend profile of Sunrise, which we expect will pay out a minimum of CHF 240 million per year, and that would rise over time. Just to put that in perspective for a moment. The dividend from Sunrise alone that I just mentioned would represent a 4% yield on the entire market cap of Liberty Global. Now so far, 11 analysts have figured that out and have published reports on the Sunrise spin which pegged the equity value in the range of $11 per Liberty share. And we're not commenting on these numbers, but it surely looks significant in relation to our $16 stock price. Your opportunity to learn more about this is coming up soon. The management team intends to conduct a Capital Markets Day in due course, followed by a complete roadshow.

其中許多團體都被 Sunrise 的股息狀況所吸引，我們預計該公司每年將支付至少 2.4 億瑞士法郎，隨著時間的推移，這一數字還會上升。只是暫時正確地看待這一點。我剛才提到的 Sunrise 股息就相當於 Liberty Global 整個市值的 4% 的收益率。到目前為止，已有 11 名分析師發現了這一點，並發布了有關 Sunrise 分拆的報告，該報告將 Liberty 的股權價值固定在每股 11 美元的範圍內。我們不會對這些數字發表評論，但相對於我們 16 美元的股價來說，它看起來確實很重要。您將有機會了解更多相關資訊。管理團隊打算適時舉辦資本市場日活動，然後進行完整的路演。

Now someone asked what happened to the remainder of Liberty Global after the spin-off. Before answering that, I think it's important to put things into context for a second. Sunrise only represents about 12% of our aggregate EBITDA and around 20% of proportionate EBITDA. So the bulk of our fixed mobile converged business remains unchanged for now. And as we've just talked about, we believe we have a lot of really strong opportunities to drive value in those remaining markets. Of course, our cash balance will be reduced by around $1 billion, but we still generate free cash flow of -- that we upstream. And as I mentioned, we continuously look at asset sales to replenish our cash. And then lastly, Sunrise, like all of our operating businesses and even those we've sold, by the way, will still be reliant on Liberty Global for certain technical product and administrative services, which will continue to offset a bunch of our central costs.

現在有人問分拆後 Liberty Global 的其餘部分發生了什麼。在回答這個問題之前，我認為有必要先了解一下背景。 Sunrise 僅占我們 EBITDA 總額的 12% 左右，佔 EBITDA 比例的 20% 左右。因此，我們大部分的固定行動融合業務目前保持不變。正如我們剛才談到的，我們相信我們有很多非常強大的機會來推動剩餘市場的價值。當然，我們的現金餘額將減少約 10 億美元，但我們仍然會產生上游的自由現金流。正如我所提到的，我們不斷尋求資產出售來補充現金。最後，Sunrise，就像我們所有的營運業務，甚至我們已經出售的業務一樣，仍然依賴 Liberty Global 提供某些技術產品和管理服務，這將繼續抵消我們的大量核心成本。

Now before handing it over to Charlie, I'll hit a couple of operating updates beginning on Slide 7, which shows broadband and postpaid mobile ads for each market over the last 5 quarters, as it's a slide we show every quarter. On the top left, you'll see that Virgin Media O2 delivered 5,000 broadband net adds in the quarter. That's despite a soft overall market with estimated industry sales of 7%. Our share of gross adds continues to rise, and that's supported by our greenfield next fiber expansion, which recently reached 1 million homes. Importantly, you'll notice that we added a blue box for each OpCo showing the evolution of fixed ARPU. VMO2's ARPU performance has improved every quarter with essentially flat ARPU in Q1 even before the benefit of a contractual 9% price rise, which kicks in April. Postpaid mobile sub growth in U.K. was impacted by a weaker handset market in Q1 that impacted O2 primarily. Our flanker brand meanwhile, continues to add customers. O2 was also impacted by churn attributable to a legacy IT migration. Despite that, mobile service revenues were up 4.2% in the quarter. Now Lutz is on the call, he can take questions, but we feel good about the investment he's making in the commercial machine. And we expect to see those benefits build as he returns to growth in 2025 and beyond.

現在，在將其交給查理之前，我將從幻燈片7 開始介紹一些營運更新，該幻燈片顯示了過去5 個季度每個市場的寬頻和後付費行動廣告，因為這是我們每季都會展示的幻燈片。在左上角，您會看到 Virgin Media O2 在本季度交付了 5,000 個寬頻淨增量。儘管整體市場疲軟，預計行業銷售額為 7%，但情況仍是如此。我們的總新增份額持續上升，這得益於我們綠地的下一個光纖擴張項目，該擴張項目最近已覆蓋 100 萬戶家庭。重要的是，您會注意到我們為每個 OpCo 添加了一個藍色框，顯示固定 ARPU 的演變。 VMO2 的 ARPU 表現每季都有所提高，即使在 4 月開始的合約價格上漲 9% 之前，第一季的 ARPU 基本持平。英國後付費行動用戶的成長受到第一季手機市場疲軟的影響，這主要影響了 O2。同時，我們的側衛品牌不斷增加客戶。 O2 也受到遺留 IT 遷移造成的客戶流失的影響。儘管如此，本季行動服務收入仍成長 4.2%。現在盧茨正在接聽電話，他可以回答問題，但我們對他在商用機器上的投資感到滿意。我們預計，隨著他在 2025 年及以後恢復成長，這些好處將會逐漸顯現。

Sunrise had a strong quarter across the board, returning to growth in broadband with 6,000 net adds, reflecting strong inflows and improved churn performance on the Sunrise brand and continued momentum on Yallo, the flanker brand. Consumer loyalty programs and a lower impact from the UPC migration drove those term benefits. And as we foreshadowed, fixed ARPU performance has improved every quarter since year-end '22. In mobile, the combination of Sunrise, Yallo and B2B drove another strong quarter of postpaid ads at 26,000. Looking forward, Andre and the team are implementing a number of initiatives to continue the commercial momentum, which bodes well for the second half of 2024 and of course, bodes well for the upcoming transaction.

Sunrise 的季度業績全面強勁，寬頻業務恢復成長，淨增 6,000 名用戶，反映出 Sunrise 品牌的強勁資金流入和客戶流失績效的改善，以及側翼品牌 Yallo 的持續成長勢頭。消費者忠誠度計劃和 UPC 遷移帶來的較低影響推動了這些期限效益。正如我們所預見的，自 22 年底以來，固定 ARPU 效能每季都有所改善。在行動領域，Sunrise、Yallo 和 B2B 的結合推動了後付費廣告又一個強勁的季度，達到 26,000 個。展望未來，Andre 和團隊正在實施多項舉措，以延續商業勢頭，這對 2024 年下半年來說是個好兆頭，當然也對即將進行的交易來說是個好兆頭。

Turning to the Netherlands. VodafoneZiggo saw a slight improvement in broadband net losses versus the last 3 quarters but continue to be impacted by promotions and high levels of fiber overbuild. This is the story there. And the value over volume strategy that Jeroen and the team have been pursuing is, in fact, paying off. And you can see that with fixed ARPU up about 4% in each of the last 3 quarters. Meanwhile, the mobile business is strong with another quarter of postpaid mobile growth and mobile service revenue up 6.5%. The Belgium market remains competitive with Telenet losing 6,000 broadband subscribers despite stronger gross sales and reinvigorated FMC marketing campaigns, the postpaid mobile base was largely stable. On the positive side, churn has improved in the second half of last year when John and the team were managing through some IT migration issues. In fact, they've seen major improvement in resolving those technical problems with customer service time back to normal. Looking forward, in our view and their view more personalized customer experiences, expansion into the south of the country, and the fiber upgrade that's underway with wire should drive better commercial momentum.

轉向荷蘭。與過去三個季度相比，VodafoneZiggo 的寬頻淨損耗略有改善，但仍受到促銷和光纖過度建設的影響。這就是那裡的故事。事實上，傑羅恩和團隊一直奉行的價值高於數量的策略正在獲得回報。您可以看到，過去 3 個季度的固定 ARPU 成長了約 4%。同時，行動業務表現強勁，後付費行動業務又成長了一個季度，行動服務收入成長了 6.5%。儘管銷售強勁且 FMC 行銷活動重振旗鼓，但比利時市場的競爭依然激烈，Telenet 失去了 6,000 名寬頻用戶，後付費行動用戶群基本穩定。從正面的方面來看，去年下半年 John 和團隊正在解決一些 IT 遷移問題時，客戶流失率有所改善。事實上，隨著客戶服務時間恢復正常，他們在解決這些技術問題方面取得了重大進展。展望未來，在我們和他們看來，更個人化的客戶體驗、向該國南部的擴張以及正在進行的有線光纖升級應該會推動更好的商業勢頭。

And now I'll end with a simple slide highlighting several of our active investment programs that will support the long-term growth and competitiveness of our FMC champions. On the top left, we summarize the status of our fixed networks. As you see at the end of 2022, we reached 32 million fixed homes, of which around 12% were on-net fiber homes, but importantly, 100% were capable of 1 gig speed, and that last point is key. We continue to have speed leadership in our markets. Just take the U.K., for example, where the average customer there of ours is getting 350 megabit speeds, and that's exceeding the average fiber customer speed according to Ofcom. Now by 2026, our footprint will have expanded by 25% to 40 million homes, and that's mostly through greenfield network extensions, but also include some wholesale arrangements. And those 8 million homes have and will continue to represent a significant growth opportunity as we've seen at Virgin Media through the last 5 to 6 years. And [thanking] the investments we're making in the U.K., Ireland and Belgium, nearly half of those 40 million homes in 2026 will be on net fiber homes.

現在，我將以一張簡單的幻燈片結束，重點介紹我們的幾個積極的投資計劃，這些計劃將支持我們的 FMC 冠軍企業的長期成長和競爭力。在左上角，我們總結了固定網路的狀態。正如您所看到的，到2022 年底，我們的固定家庭數量將達到3200 萬，其中約12% 是網內光纖家庭，但重要的是，100% 的家庭能夠達到1 GB 速度，最後一點是關鍵。我們在市場上繼續保持速度領先地位。以英國為例，我們的平均客戶獲得 350 兆位元的速度，根據 Ofcom 的數據，這超過了光纖客戶的平均速度。到 2026 年，我們的覆蓋範圍將擴大 25%，達到 4000 萬戶家庭，這主要是透過綠地網路擴展實現的，但也包括一些批發安排。正如我們在過去 5 到 6 年中在 Virgin Media 所看到的那樣，這 800 萬戶家庭已經並將繼續代表著巨大的成長機會。 [感謝]我們在英國、愛爾蘭和比利時的投資，到 2026 年，這 4,000 萬戶家庭中近一半將採用網路光纖家庭。

In 2 of those markets, Belgium and the U.K., we will have created NetCos that house, manage and derive revenue from those networks and you're aware of those value-creation opportunities. At the bottom, you can see our 5G coverage ratios in 2024, which range from 100% in Switzerland and Holland to 50% and greater in the U.K. and Belgium. Three of our 4 markets will reach 100% by 2026, with only the U.K. on a slightly slower path. I think it's important to point out that both fixed and mobile CapEx are not far from their peak periods. In fact, mobile CapEx peaks this year and fixed CapEx is not far behind that. And the point here is that we, like other European telcos, will start to benefit from even higher free cash flow margins when these programs either complete or are moved off balance sheet. And then on the right side, we are also beginning to reap the benefits of our considerable investment in digital as well as our more recent AI initiatives.

在其中兩個市場（比利時和英國），我們將創建網路公司來容納、管理這些網路並從中獲取收入，並且您將意識到這些價值創造機會。在底部，您可以看到 2024 年我們的 5G 覆蓋率，範圍從瑞士和荷蘭的 100% 到英國和比利時的 50% 或更高。到 2026 年，我們的 4 個市場中的 3 個將達到 100%，只有英國的速度稍慢。我認為必須指出的是，固定和移動資本支出距離高峰期已經不遠了。事實上，行動資本支出今年達到高峰，固定資本支出也緊跟在後。這裡的重點是，當這些計畫完成或移出資產負債表時，我們與其他歐洲電信公司一樣，將開始受益於更高的自由現金流利潤率。另一方面，我們也開始從數位化方面的大量投資以及最近的人工智慧計畫中獲益。

Just a few examples here. Having just completed our IT migrations of the O2 postpaid mobile base in the U.K. and Telenet's residential subs in Belgium, we're now operating nearly fully digital customer experience platforms for those customer bases. On the mobile front, with fully virtualized 5G SA cores under development in Belgium, the U.K. and Switzerland, we're going to be able to provide much greater scale, flexibility and cost benefits to customers. Network as a service is early stage. We talk a lot about it, but we've demonstrated both our technical readiness and the potential benefits of these use cases at Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. And on AI, we're focused on harnessing the power of predictive and generative AI to increase productivity and efficiency at scale across our network, customer and employee platforms, making our customers-facing agents smarter, predicting network outages and reducing power consumption and streamlining internal processes. There are just a few of the applications we're rolling out. Now many of these things are happening under the radar and we're all being careful not to overpromise. But our team is convinced that these, and similar innovations, will provide us and our sector more generally with a much needed source of both revenue growth and operating efficiencies.

這裡僅舉幾個例子。我們剛完成了英國 O2 後付費行動基地和比利時 Telenet 住宅分局的 IT 遷移，現在我們正在為這些客戶群運作幾乎完全數位化的客戶體驗平台。在行動方面，憑藉比利時、英國和瑞士正在開發的完全虛擬化 5G SA 核心，我們將能夠為客戶提供更大的規模、靈活性和成本效益。網路即服務尚處於早期階段。我們對此進行了很多討論，但我們已經在巴塞隆納世界行動通訊大會上展示了我們的技術準備以及這些用例的潛在優勢。在人工智慧方面，我們專注於利用預測性和生成性人工智慧的力量來大規模提高我們的網路、客戶和員工平台的生產力和效率，使我們面向客戶的代理更加智能，預測網路中斷並降低功耗和簡化流程內部流程。我們正在推出的應用程式只是其中的一小部分。現在，許多事情都在人們的關注下發生，我們都小心翼翼地不要做出過度承諾。但我們的團隊堅信，這些以及類似的創新將為我們和我們的行業提供更廣泛的收入成長和營運效率急需的來源。

With that, Charlie, let's take them through the financials.

查理，讓我們來了解一下財務狀況。

Thanks, Mike. The next slide sets out a summary of the revenue and EBITDA profile in our 4 key markets. We saw broadly stable reported revenues across all our cos in Q1. (inaudible) reported stable revenue. But excluding the impact of the next fiber construction, a revenue decline of 4%. This was driven by low margin handset and B2B fixed revenue declines, which we highlighted in Q4 as part of the softer revenue guidance. However, underlying service revenue performance did improve even before the Q2 price rises with stable fixed revenues and mobile service revenue growth accelerating versus the fourth quarter.

謝謝，麥克。下一張投影片概述了我們 4 個主要市場的收入和 EBITDA 概況。第一季我們所有公司的報告收入基本上穩定。 （聽不清楚）報告收入穩定。但剔除接下來光纖建設的影響，營收下降4%。這是由低利潤手機和 B2B 固定收入下降所推動的，我們在第四季度強調了這一點，作為收入指引疲軟的一部分。然而，即使在第二季價格上漲之前，基礎服務收入表現也確實有所改善，固定收入穩定，行動服務收入成長較第四季加速。

At VodafoneZiggo, revenue was up close to 2% this quarter supported by tailwinds from the 2023 price rises with another record quarter of mobile service revenue growth at over 7%. Fixed over pricing was supported by healthy ARPU growth as we captured the benefit of the mid-2023 price adjustments. And Telenet delivered stable revenue in Q1, supported by consumer mobile revenue underpinned by price adjustments last summer. Sunrise posted stable revenue in Q1, mainly lever the positive impact of the July price increase and continued momentum in B2B, offset by lower handset revenues. Moving on to our Q1 adjusted EBITDA performance. (inaudible) adjusted EBITDA decreased just under 2%, including next fiber construction as VMO2 invested in the future growth drivers that we laid out in the 2024 guidance. Specifically in Q1, there was a step-up in IT transformation costs and VMO2 has started scaling our marketing efforts in the next fiber areas.

在 2023 年價格上漲的推動下，VodafoneZiggo 本季營收成長了近 2%，行動服務營收成長再創歷史新季度超過 7%。由於我們受益於 2023 年中期價格調整，因此固定定價過高得到了 ARPU 健康成長的支持。 Telenet 在第一季實現了穩定的收入，這得益於去年夏天價格調整支撐的消費者行動收入。 Sunrise 第一季營收穩定，主要得益於 7 月價格上漲和 B2B 持續成長勢頭的正面影響，但被手機收入下降所抵消。接下來是我們第一季調整後的 EBITDA 表現。 （聽不清楚）調整後的 EBITDA 下降了近 2%，其中包括下一個光纖建設，因為 VMO2 投資於我們在 2024 年指導中列出的未來成長動力。特別是在第一季度，IT 轉型成本有所上升，VMO2 已開始擴大我們在下一個光纖領域的行銷力道。

VodafoneZiggo delivered close to 9% EBITDA growth driven primarily by the reversal of energy cost headwinds and, of course, the revenue growth. And Telenet delivered stable EBITDA for the quarter due to price increases, lower programming and interconnect costs, along with lower energy costs, which were offset by higher staff-related expenses following the mandatory 1.5% wage indexation increase. And Sunrise posted stable adjusted EBITDA growth, including cost to capture driven by lower OpEx and direct costs, and we expect cost optimization benefits to be more visible from Q2.

VodafoneZiggo 實現了近 9% 的 EBITDA 成長，這主要得益於能源成本逆風的逆轉，當然還有收入的成長。由於價格上漲、編程和互連成本降低以及能源成本降低，Telenet 本季度實現了穩定的 EBITDA，但強制性工資指數上漲 1.5% 後員工相關費用的增加抵消了這些成本。 Sunrise 公佈了穩定的調整後 EBITDA 成長，包括由較低的營運支出和直接成本驅動的捕獲成本，我們預計成本優化效益從第二季開始將更加明顯。

Turning to the next slide, we give an update on the key metrics underpinning our capital allocation model. Recurring upstream free cash flow from our wholly owned FMC OpCos and cash distributions from our 50% owned JVs, our holdco cash and liquidity and the fair market value of the Ventures portfolio plus listed stakes and finally, the underlying equity values of all our FMC champions. So starting on the top left, with the breakdown of our free cash flow profile for Q1 2024 by operating company along with full year guidance. Now as has been the case in previous years, Q1 is typically a modest cash outflow quarter given the timing of cash interest payments on our [debt stack] and with limited cash distributions from the JVs, which tend to be back-ended loaded to the second half of the year.

轉向下一張投影片，我們將提供支撐我們的資本配置模型的關鍵指標的最新資訊。來自我們全資擁有的FMC OpCos 的經常性上游自由現金流和來自我們持股50% 的合資企業的現金分配、我們的控股公司現金和流動性以及風險投資組合的公平市場價值加上上市股權，最後是我們所有FMC 冠軍企業的基礎股權價值。因此，從左上角開始，我們按營運公司細分 2024 年第一季的自由現金流狀況以及全年指引。與前幾年的情況一樣，考慮到我們的[債務堆疊]現金利息支付的時間以及合資企業的現金分配有限，第一季度通常是一個適度的現金流出季度，而合資企業往往會後端加載到下半年。

Turning to our cash position. Our consolidated cash balance was $3.2 billion at the end of Q1 2024. And in the chart, there is a walk versus the closing Q4 balance, including the modest cash outflow related to operations was about $0.2 billion in Q1, ventures investments, which were primarily in AtlasEdge and EdgeConneX of about $0.1 billion and share buybacks of around $180 million during Q1, which again is consistent with our guidance for up to 10% buyback in 2024.

轉向我們的現金狀況。截至2024 年第一季末，我們的綜合現金餘額為32 億美元。億美元，創投主要是第一季度，AtlasEdge 和 EdgeConneX 的投資額約為 1 億美元，股票回購額約為 1.8 億美元，這再次符合我們在 2024 年回購高達 10% 的指導。

Moving to ventures compared to the fair market value of our ventures portfolio. This increased in the quarter driven by an increase in the value of our stake in EdgeConneX plus our listed stakes including ITB, which was offset by a decline in tech valuations primarily Lacework. We made net investments in debentures in Q1 of approximately $100 million, primarily in AtlasEdge and EdgeConneX, and both assets are within our infra pillar, which is focused on the data center space, where we see strong growth potential and a clear right to play. And finally, to highlight on a per share basis, the key value drivers of our stock, largely speaking, analysts share our view that there's a significant discount in our stock, which is currently trending around $16 to $17 per share versus the average (inaudible) valuation of $26 a share. But as Mike indicated in our Q4 strategy update, we are keen to close that gap.

與我們創投組合的公平市場價值相比，轉向創投。這一季度的成長是由我們在 EdgeConneX 的股份價值增加以及包括 ITB 在內的上市股份價值的增加所推動的，但這一增長被主要是 Lacework 的科技估值下降所抵消。我們在第一季對債券進行了約1 億美元的淨投資，主要投資於AtlasEdge 和EdgeConneX，這兩項資產都屬於我們的基礎設施支柱，重點關注資料中心領域，我們看到了強勁的成長潛力和明確的參與權。最後，為了強調每股基礎上我們股票的關鍵價值驅動因素，基本上來說，分析師同意我們的觀點，即我們的股票存在大幅折扣，目前與平均水平相比，每股價格約為16 至17美元（聽不清楚） ）每股估值26美元。但正如麥克在第四季度戰略更新中指出的那樣，我們渴望縮小這一差距。

If we start with our $3.2 billion cash balance, and take out to summarize deleveraging injection of $1.7 billion, which is around $5 per share, we get to a value equivalent to $4 per share. Our venture portfolio regularly valued by an independent third party is worth $2.4 billion or $7 per share, while our listed equity stakes plus the cash we're going to get from the All3Media sale are worth a combined $1 billion or $3 per share.

如果我們從 32 億美元的現金餘額開始，取出 17 億美元的去槓桿化注入，大約每股 5 美元，我們得到的價值相當於每股 4 美元。我們的創投組合定期由獨立第三方評估，價值 24 億美元或每股 7 美元，而我們的上市股權加上我們將從 All3Media 出售中獲得的現金總計價值 10 億美元或每股 3 美元。

Now moving to the Sunrise spin, I'm assuming -- and only assuming the current average analyst valuation of the company of CHF 8 billion, we arrive at $11 per share pro forma for the cash injection of CHF 1.5 billion committed by Liberty Global. Now if you add all these up without any value attributed to the other FMC champions, the implied value of a Liberty Global share comes out to be around $25 per share, assuming 350 million shares around the time of the Swiss spinoff. Lastly, we highlighted in Q4 on a per comparable basis enterprise value to operational free cash flow. We believe that there's also significant equity value in our remaining proportionate interest in VMO2, VodafoneZiggo, Telenet and Ireland, with cash being upstreamed despite the current elevated investment cycles related to 5G and fiber to the home.

現在轉向Sunrise，我假設——而且僅假設該公司當前分析師平均估值為80億瑞士法郎，我們得出的Liberty Global承諾的15億瑞士法郎現金注入的預計每股價格為11美元。現在，如果你把所有這些加起來，不考慮其他 FMC 冠軍公司的任何價值，那麼 Liberty Global 股票的隱含價值約為每股 25 美元，假設瑞士分拆時持有 3.5 億股。最後，我們在第四季度強調了可比較企業價值與營運自由現金流的關係。我們認為，儘管目前與 5G 和光纖到戶相關的投資週期較長，但我們在 VMO2、VodafoneZiggo、Telenet 和 Ireland 的剩餘比例權益中也具有重要的股權價值，現金仍在上游。

Turning to our balance sheet. We continue to have a strong position and continue to do opportunistic refinancings. During March and April, we refinanced nearly all of the remaining 2027 maturities at VMO2. Now as opposed to the usual slide showing our silo debt by OpCo, this chart highlights our aggregate debt position, including the joint ventures where we own 50% by debt instrument. Overall, we have around half our aggregate debt in the form of bank debt and the other half in bonds. And as the chart shows, the bank debt typically has a shorter remaining duration versus our bonds as the latter are typically issued with around a 10-year maturity.

轉向我們的資產負債表。我們繼續保持強勢地位，並繼續進行機會主義再融資。 3 月和 4 月期間，我們對 VMO2 幾乎所有剩餘的 2027 年到期債券進行了再融資。現在，與通常顯示 OpCo 的筒倉債務的幻燈片不同，該圖表突出顯示了我們的總債務狀況，包括我們擁有 50% 債務工具的合資企業。整體而言，我們的總債務中約有一半是銀行債務，另一半是債券。如圖所示，銀行債務的剩餘期限通常比我們的債券更短，因為後者的發行期限通常約為 10 年。

Crucially, all of our variable bank debt is fixed using swaps typically until maturity, with the swaps independent, and that's really important, of the underlying bank debt. We would argue that these swaps totaling $23 billion for an average remaining life of 5.25 years are a significant asset. And indeed, in our balance sheet, we recorded an in-the-money valuation for our interest rate swaps of over $1.5 billion. Specifically, we have around $10 billion of notional swaps maturing in 2028 and $9 billion in 2029. This allows us to refinance near-term maturities and push out the tenor of our bank debt while still benefiting from the underlying swaps, which can remain in place until 2028 and beyond. And as a result, we have a limited debt repricing risk apart from any change in what's called the credit spread.

至關重要的是，我們所有的可變銀行債務通常都是透過互換固定的，直到到期為止，互換獨立於基礎銀行債務，這一點非常重要。我們認為，這些互換總額為 230 億美元，平均剩餘壽命為 5.25 年，是一項重要資產。事實上，在我們的資產負債表中，我們記錄的利率互換的價內估值超過 15 億美元。具體來說，我們有大約100 億美元的名義掉期將於2028 年到期，90 億美元將於2029 年到期。期限，同時仍受益於可以保留的基礎掉期。因此，除了所謂的信用利差的任何變化之外，我們的債務重新定價風險有限。

So as a case study, we took advantage of this at VMO2, proactively refinancing $2.4 billion across March and April, largely addressing the 2027 maturities with only a 20 basis point increase in spread. So overall, for VMO2, this extended the average life of the debt stack by 0.4 years at less than a 0.1% increase in the overall weighted average cost of debt. And lastly, as a reminder, all our debt is fully siloed and FX matched, and we intend to remain proactive in terms of pushing out our maturities to maintain turnup. Lastly, I wanted just to reconfirm all our 2024 guidance across all the OpCos which we set out in Q4 in February. Now I won't run through all the metrics again. But after a strong start to the year financially in Q1, we remain confident across all the OpCos in terms of hitting the numbers.

因此，作為一個案例研究，我們在 VMO2 中利用了這一點，在 3 月和 4 月主動再融資 24 億美元，主要解決 2027 年到期的問題，利差僅增加 20 個基點。因此，總體而言，對於 VMO2，這將債務堆疊的平均壽命延長了 0.4 年，而總體加權平均債務成本增加不到 0.1%。最後，提醒一下，我們所有的債務都是完全孤立的，並且與外匯相匹配，我們打算繼續積極主動地延長到期日以維持收益率。最後，我想再次確認我們在 2 月第四季制定的所有營運公司的所有 2024 年指引。現在我不會再遍歷所有指標。但在第一季財務狀況強勁開局之後，我們對所有營運公司實現目標仍然充滿信心。

And that concludes our prepared remarks. And operator, we're now ready to move to Q&A.

我們準備好的發言就到此結束。操作員，我們現在準備好進入問答環節。

(Operator Instructions). Our first question comes from the line of Joshua Mills with BNP Paribas.

（操作員說明）。我們的第一個問題來自約書亞米爾斯與法國巴黎銀行的對話。

I had a couple on the Netherlands and then one on the U.K., if that's okay. So I think in the VodafoneZiggo disclosure last night, you talked about improved Net Promoter Scores now related to FMC. It'd be great if you could share some detail about perhaps how your net promoter scores are performing in that business and if there's any green shoots there, which might point to a better net out trend through the course of the year. And then related to that, you mentioned as well in the call that fiber-to-the-home overbuild is 1 of the issues you're seeing in the Netherlands. I'd like to clarify whether that is coming from the altnet survivor from KPN.

我在荷蘭有一對，然後在英國有一對，如果可以的話。因此，我認為在昨晚的 VodafoneZiggo 披露中，您談到了現在與 FMC 相關的淨推薦值的提高。如果您能分享一些關於您的淨推薦值在該業務中的表現以及是否有任何新芽的細節，那就太好了，這可能表明全年會有更好的淨輸出趨勢。與此相關的是，您在電話中也提到光纖到府過度建設是您在荷蘭看到的問題之一。我想澄清這是否來自 KPN 的替代網路倖存者。

And then if I just move on to the U.K., my question there is if you could provide a bit more color around how much of the postpaid subscriber losses were related to this change in billing system and give an indication what the underlying surplus in the quarter would be, that would be much appreciated, too.

然後，如果我繼續前往英國，我的問題是，您是否可以提供更多關於後付費用戶損失有多少與計費系統的變化相關的信息，並說明本季度的基本盈餘是多少會的，那也會非常感激。

Thanks, Joshua. As you know, Jeroen Hoencamp, CEO of VodafoneZiggo for some time, has officially retired as of yesterday. So he's off on vacation. But we have Ritchy Drost, the CFO, you all know quite well on the call with us today. Ritchy, do you want to address the NPS point?

謝謝，約書亞。如你所知，曾擔任 VodafoneZiggo 執行長一段時間的 Jeroen Hoencamp 已於昨天正式退休。所以他去度假了。但今天我們有財務長 Ritchy Drost，你們都很熟悉。 Ritchy，您想解決 NPS 問題嗎？

Yes. Sure. Thank you, and thank you for passing on to me. What you do see -- we don't measure a VodafoneZiggo NPS, we do clearly measure it through the brands, Ziggo, Vodafone and (inaudible), on all 3 brands, we see a gradual step-by-step increase the NPS scores, leading to positive NPS is, for sure, also on the fixed side. And the latter has been one of our challenges in the past to address that. So all 3 brands are positive, which also then leads into, if you combine, let's say, the offer into FMC offers that you see a definitely, for sure, uptake on the NPS based on a couple of things we're doing is the value-add to the entertainment proposition, but also through a constant improved, I would call it, customer service profile. Hopefully, that addresses the question. And if you want, Mike, I can also take the second one...

是的。當然。謝謝你，也謝謝你轉告給我。你所看到的——我們不衡量 VodafoneZiggo NPS，我們確實透過 Ziggo、Vodafone 和（聽不清楚）這三個品牌進行了明確的衡量，我們看到 NPS 分數在逐步增加，導致正NPS 當然也是固定的。後者一直是我們過去解決這個問題的挑戰之一。因此，所有 3 個品牌都是積極的，這也會導致，如果您將 FMC 的報價結合起來，您會看到基於我們正在做的幾件事，您肯定會看到 NPS 的吸收娛樂主張的增值，也可以透過不斷改進（我稱之為客戶服務概況）來實現。希望這能解決這個問題。如果你願意，麥克，我也可以選擇第二個......

And on the (inaudible) point, Ritchy. Yes, go ahead. Go ahead.

關於（聽不清楚）這一點，Ritchy。好，去吧。前進。

Yes. So by now, both KPN, Odido and ourselves are public. So we have a pretty good feel on how the market is doing. I would always say that if you look at our churn, it's mostly triggered not by fiber, but by the sheer fact that the fiber players actually use price and promotions as 1 of the instruments to actually get traction on the fiber footprint. If you would slice and dice ourselves and compare it for instance to the incumbent KPN, KPN in itself has, on a like-for-like basis, also pretty let's say, moderate performance, I would say, both consumer and B2B, which basically then leads to the Odido results as well as Delta that didn't go public.

是的。所以到目前為止，KPN、Odido 和我們自己都是公開的。因此，我們對市場的表現有很好的了解。我總是會說，如果你看看我們的流失，你會發現它主要不是由光纖引發的，而是由以下事實引發的：光纖製造商實際上使用價格和促銷作為真正吸引光纖足蹟的工具之一。如果你將我們自己進行切片和切塊，並將其與現有的KPN 進行比較，那麼KPN 本身在同類基礎上也具有相當不錯的性能，我想說，無論是消費者還是B2B，這基本上都是然後就得出了 Odido 的結果以及未公開的 Delta 的結果。

If you combine Odido and Delta, they take effectively the growth in the market, which is predominantly the growth in new build homes taking broadband services. So that's a long way of saying that it's not the income of KPN and ourselves but the growth cost to the other 2 big players using price a lot as the instrument to gain volume.

如果將 Odido 和 Delta 結合起來，它們將有效地推動市場成長，其中主要是採用寬頻服務的新建住宅的成長。因此，從長遠來看，這不是 KPN 和我們自己的收入，而是其他兩大公司大量使用價格作為獲得銷售的工具的成長成本。

Yes. I think it's also important to point out that those other 2 players are building in discrete geographies. They're not overbuilding each other, and they're not building the entire market, between $1 million to $1.5 million each. So they're sort of -- it's fragmented. But from an outsider's point of view looking in, quite rational overbuild situation. Lutz, do you want to address the postpaid billing question in the U.K.?

是的。我認為還需要指出的是，其他兩家公司正在離散的地區進行建設。他們並沒有過度建造對方，也沒有建造整個市場，每個市場的規模在 100 萬到 150 萬美元之間。所以它們是支離破碎的。但從局外人的角度來看，過度建設的情況相當理性。 Lutz，您想解決英國的後付費帳單問題嗎？

Yes, sure. Yes, Joshua. So right, a couple of things here. I mean Q1 is typically a weak postpaid net add quarter. The delta compared to a year ago is 50,000. We have finished the migration of a double-digit million customer base, right, from one CRM system to a new one. And obviously, this has always an effect on some customers, which you are unable to migrate on the new system. We are not disclosing the number for sure. But I mean, you can see maybe similar CRM migrations in the market, and you will be astonished that the number is pretty good. And number three, what I want to iterate is you can look at postpaid net adds, but our strategy going forward is to have with O2, more the value brand and with (inaudible) they pay monthly brand for value seekers, right? One is premium, one is value. And you see that they start to pay off in our service revenue growth before price rise in mobile of 42%. So I hope that helps.

是的，當然。是的，約書亞。是的，這裡有幾件事。我的意思是，第一季通常是一個疲軟的後付費淨增加季度。與一年前相比，增量為 50,000。我們已經完成了數百萬客戶群從一個 CRM 系統到新系統的遷移。顯然，這總是會對某些客戶產生影響，您無法將其遷移到新系統上。我們不確定會透露這個數字。但我的意思是，您可能會在市場上看到類似的 CRM 遷移，您會驚訝地發現這個數字相當不錯。第三，我想重申的是，你可以看看後付費淨增加，但我們未來的策略是與O2 合作，更多地提供價值品牌，並且（聽不清楚）他們為價值尋求者每月支付品牌費用，對嗎？一是溢價，一是價值。您會看到，在行動價格上漲 42% 之前，我們的服務收入成長就開始帶來回報。所以我希望這會有所幫助。

I'll just add 1 point, which I think is important to remember. Since we formed this JV, we've grown the mobile contract base every year, and we've had consistent mobile service revenue growth. So I would view this as more of a blip than a long-term trend.

我只想添加 1 點，我認為記住這一點很重要。自從我們成立這家合資公司以來，我們的行動合約基礎每年都在成長，而且我們的行動服務收入也持續成長。因此，我認為這更多的是曇花一現，而不是長期趨勢。

Our next question comes from the line of Maurice Patrick with Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的莫里斯帕特里克。

If I could ask a question on the U.K. market, please, really relating to the net add trajectory and state of competition. So I'm sort of curious that the U.K. broadband market has grown in size over the last few years. The last 12 months seems to have topped out. Just curious if you think the market can grow maybe in the next 12 months. And just linked to it, if I look at some of the altnet data, it looks like in the last 12 months they've added about 0.5 million customers in the U.K. market. I wonder, you've historically, I think, talked down the impact of altnet. I wondered the extent to which those are now starting to impact your unit adds in your legacy footprint.

如果我可以問一個關於英國市場的問題，確實與淨成長軌跡和競爭狀況有關。所以我有點好奇英國寬頻市場的規模在過去幾年不斷擴大。過去 12 個月似乎已經見頂。只是好奇您是否認為市場在未來 12 個月內可能會成長。與之相關的是，如果我查看一些 altnet 數據，看起來在過去 12 個月裡他們在英國市場增加了約 50 萬客戶。我想知道，我認為您在歷史上一直在淡化替代網路的影響。我想知道這些現在開始在多大程度上影響您的單位，增加您的遺留足跡。

Lutz, why don't you address the net add question?

Lutz，為什麼不解決網路新增問題？

Yes, sure. So I mean, if you compare the net add development Q1 this year compared to Q1 '23, the data is 20,000. A couple of things here. Obviously, the market is a bit weaker. So according to our data, it's something like 7% less. Number two, we see some more impact on altnets, not incredible, right? I mean look at the delta 2 years ago. So we are not talking big numbers. But I mean, my view is the altnets are not getting to the penetration they want. And therefore, as a fact, they're getting more aggressive in promotions and you see some of this effect. The question is how long will this last? And then, right, we have obviously now added 1 million fiber homes, and we are starting to sell more into our expanded network. But also, this takes some time because it is fiber, right? So I mean, in Lighting, we were used to sell [quirks]. Fiber is, right, new video product, it's a different technology, and we really started to sell fiber mid of last year. So that machine week-over-week, we are selling more. So we're also confident here, but therefore, expect more impact into net adds out of next fiber. I hope that helps.

是的，當然。所以我的意思是，如果你將今年第一季的淨成長發展與 23 年第一季相比，數據是 20,000。這裡有幾件事。顯然，市場有點疲軟。因此根據我們的數據，大約減少了 7%。第二，我們看到了對替代網路的更多影響，這並不令人難以置信，對吧？我的意思是看看兩年前的三角洲。所以我們談的並不是大數字。但我的意思是，我的觀點是替代網路沒有達到他們想要的滲透率。因此，事實上，他們在促銷方面變得更加積極，你可以看到其中的一些效果。問題是這種情況會持續多久？然後，沒錯，我們現在顯然已經增加了 100 萬個光纖家庭，並且我們開始向我們擴展的網路出售更多光纖。而且，這需要一些時間，因為它是纖維，對吧？所以我的意思是，在照明領域，我們習慣銷售[怪癖]。光纖是，對，新的視訊產品，它是一種不同的技術，我們去年年中才真正開始銷售光纖。因此，我們每週都能賣出更多的機器。因此，我們對此也充滿信心，但因此預期下一代光纖對淨增加會產生更大的影響。我希望這有幫助。

I think the other point is we do talk about altnet every quarter, and we're by no means discounting the capital they've expended and the network they've already built. Typically, what we're describing to you is where we see the next 18 to 36 months and whether they have the capital and the ability to sustain that build and get to their hoped for build-out ambition. And I think the answer we're seeing unlikely. That doesn't mean with the network already constructed, and there's quite a bit as you know, they aren't going to penetrate. They're not weak to our knowledge, they're not reaching penetration levels that are going to sustain their businesses, high single digits, 10%. That is not, for the most part, going to work long term financially. But we don't -- but with -- the network has been built and they're going to do what they can to obviously create a return on that network. So they're active in the market. We -- that's for sure.

我認為另一點是我們每季都會談論替代網絡，我們絕對不會低估他們所花費的資本和他們已經建立的網絡。通常，我們向您描述的是未來 18 到 36 個月的情況，以及他們是否有資本和能力來維持這一建設並實現他們希望的擴建雄心。我認為我們看到的答案不太可能。這並不意味著網絡已經建成，而且正如你所知，有相當多的網絡，他們不會滲透。據我們所知，他們並不弱，他們還沒有達到維持其業務的滲透水平，高個位數，10%。在大多數情況下，這在經濟上並不能長期發揮作用。但我們沒有——但隨著——網絡已經建成，他們將盡其所能，顯然在該網絡上創造回報。所以他們在市場上很活躍。我們——這是肯定的。

And the market growing. So just -- do you think the market will grow -- the U.K. broadband market will grow over the next 12 months?

且市場不斷成長。那麼，您認為市場將會成長嗎？

Lutz, do you have an impression of that? I mean (inaudible) generally, there's a lot of swapping happening. There's certainly a lot of flux in the market. So we think our business will grow. The broader market generally does add every year, but we think we are getting more than our fair share. That's for sure.

路茲，你對此有印象嗎？我的意思是（聽不清楚）一般來說，會發生很多交換。市場上肯定有很多變化。所以我們認為我們的業務將會成長。一般來說，更廣泛的市場確實每年都會增加，但我們認為我們獲得的收益超出了我們應得的份額。這是肯定的。

Yes. But there's not a lot of growth, yes, in the market.

是的。但市場上的成長並不多。

Our next question comes from the line of Ulrich Rathe with Bernstein Societe Generale Group.

我們的下一個問題來自伯恩斯坦興業銀行的 Ulrich Rathe。

In the prepared remarks, Mike, you talked about the (inaudible) embedded in the network carve-outs. Now in Belgium, I think you had apartments pretty clear all this might work. In the U.K., it's maybe less clear. You talked about sort of unsolicited interest already. But could you just describe the value creation levers that you see of the carve-out? And if I may, just 1 point of clarification in the Netherlands. The distribution outlook there is up to $300 million available for distribution and nonrecurring investments. Could you narrow that down already at this point in time? Or is this simply something as the investment opportunities unfold that you would clarify how those might split?

麥克，在準備好的發言中，您談到了網路剝離中嵌入的（聽不清楚）內容。現在在比利時，我認為你的公寓很清楚所有這些都可能有效。在英國，情況可能不太清楚。你已經談到了某種不請自來的興趣。但您能否描述一下您所看到的剝離的價值創造槓桿？如果可以的話，我只想在荷蘭澄清一點。分配前景可用於分配和非經常性投資的金額高達 3 億美元。您現在能縮小範圍嗎？或者這只是隨著投資機會的出現，您會澄清這些機會如何分割？

Yes. Charlie or Ritchy, you can address the cash upstream question. listen, I think the value creation levers in the U.K. are many. For starters, we're able to isolate that network construction, network build, network asset into a vehicle that we believe could very well attract interest from strategic and financial parties. The benefits of that interest would be obviously capital raising. We believe at accretive multiples, but more importantly, the ability to potentially accelerate our activities in that marketplace. I mean we're going to already have announced that we expect to be at 5 million homes in nexfibre by 2026, and we would build out the balance of our upgraded network, what we call fiber up by 2028, 2029, but to the extent we can accelerate those builds as well as the migration of customers on to those fiber networks, all the better.

是的。查理或里奇，你可以解決現金上游問題。聽著，我認為英國的價值創造槓桿有很多。首先，我們能夠將網路建置、網路建設、網路資產隔離到一個工具中，我們相信這很可能吸引策略和財務方的興趣。這種興趣的好處顯然是籌集資金。我們相信成長倍數，但更重要的是，有能力加速我們在該市場的活動。我的意思是，我們已經宣布，預計到2026 年，nexfibre 家庭數量將達到500 萬戶，並且我們將在2028 年和2029 年之前建立昇級網路的平衡，即我們所說的光纖升級，但在一定程度上我們可以加速這些建置以及客戶向這些光纖網路的遷移，效果更好。

So we think, number one, it allows -- it creates financial flexibility and optionality to accelerate our activities in that market. And we all know that there are -- I don't know the exact number, but there's $2 trillion of private equity money flowing around. A big chunk of that is infrastructure capital, and we certainly believe that the infrastructure business is alive and well and that there is an interest certainly in these types of net codes that start life with 35%, 40% utilization, a lot of EBITDA and a clear plan. I mean we think our network, which will ultimately be 21 million homes will be the second network in the marketplace, and it will attract wholesale customers over time, but more importantly, give us a competitive advantage to retain and grow our broadband base.

所以我們認為，第一，它創造了財務靈活性和選擇性，以加速我們在該市場的活動。我們都知道——我不知道確切的數字，但有 2 兆美元的私募股權資金在流動。其中很大一部分是基礎設施資本，我們當然相信基礎設施業務仍然活躍且發展良好，並且人們對這些類型的網路程式碼肯定感興趣，這些程式碼以35%、40% 的利用率開始使用，有大量的EBITDA 和一個明確的計劃。我的意思是，我們認為我們的網絡最終將覆蓋2100 萬個家庭，將成為市場上的第二個網絡，隨著時間的推移，它將吸引批發客戶，但更重要的是，它會給我們帶來競爭優勢，以保留和發展我們的寬頻基礎。

So there's lots of goodness that comes from the -- we're not the first person obviously, to look at delayering our business. We've done it in Belgium. I think John is on the call, he can speak to what we're already seeing there with wire and the opportunities that, that's created for us in the Belgium market, not the least of which is potential cooperation with Proximus there to try to rationalize the construction of fiber so that we're not wasting capital. So there's lots of opportunities that come when you start this process, when you begin this journey that we think could be very accretive for Virgin Media O2.

因此，我們顯然不是第一個考慮推遲業務的人，這有很多好處。我們已經在比利時做到了。我認為約翰正在通話中，他可以談論我們已經透過電訊看到的情況以及為我們在比利時市場創造的機會，其中最重要的是與 Proximus 在那裡的潛在合作，以試圖合理化光纖建設，這樣我們就不會浪費資金。因此，當您開始這個過程時，當您開始這個旅程時，就會出現很多機會，我們認為這對 Virgin Media O2 來說是非常有利的。

Just on the shareholders, Ritchy, I don't know if you want to answer it. But obviously, one of the -- and obviously, one of the things that goes with telecom, so from time to time, there are spectrum auctions. We're obviously not allowed to comment on specific auctions. But I think we just want to make sure should one of these emerge that we didn't mislead our investors. So it's really related to that. I don't know, Ritchy, if you'd add anything to that.

就股東而言，Ritchy，我不知道你願不願意回答。但顯然，其中之一——顯然，這是與電信相關的事情之一，所以時不時就會有頻譜拍賣。顯然我們無權對具體拍賣發表評論。但我認為我們只是想確保如果其中一個出現，我們不會誤導我們的投資者。所以這確實與此有關。我不知道，Ritchy，你是否願意對此添加任何內容。

I think that's well said, Charlie. So we're reconfirming the up to $300 million with the remarks we made at the -- sorry, the year-end results in line with what you just said.

我認為這句話說得很好，查理。因此，我們根據我們在會議上的言論再次確認了高達 3 億美元的資金——抱歉，年終業績與您剛才所說的一致。

Our next question comes from the line of Robert Grindle with Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的羅伯特‧格林德爾（Robert Grindle）。

I'd like to ask about the Benelux holdco. The idea seems to have shaken out interest, as you said, Mike, from external investors. It sounds encouraging given the lower negative implied equity on the OpCos. Is this interest or contingent on fully controlling Ziggo or not necessarily? Is there any movement on Ziggo from your co-shareholder in Paddington? And if I could have a very quick follow-up on the U.K. net point. Do you need to offer more altnet like than VM prices to get customers on to nexfibre? Or so far, at least, do you think the Virgin brand carries the premium to what the other outlets are charging?

我想問一下比荷盧控股公司的情況。正如你所說，麥克，這個想法似乎動搖了外部投資者的興趣。鑑於 OpCo 的負隱含資產較低，這聽起來令人鼓舞。這種興趣是否取決於完全控制 Ziggo，或者不一定？ Paddington 的聯合股東對 Ziggo 有何動向？如果我能對英國網點進行快速跟進。您是否需要提供比 VM 價格更多的替代網路才能吸引客戶使用 nexfibre？或者至少到目前為止，您認為維珍品牌的收費是否高於其他商店的收費？

Lutz, you can work up an answer on the U.K. altnet point. Listen, I think the interest that private equity could have in the Odido Benelux asset is clear. You're talking about a defined region with a lot of similarities, $3 billion of EBITDA on a combined basis, potential synergies, if there's further consolidation of ownership interests and obviously undervalued assets that have good cash flow characteristics, et cetera. And I'll add lastly, unrealized value in infrastructure, whether that's through wire, the NetCo in Belgium or from towers, that haven't yet been monetized in Holland. So there's lots of interesting elements there to, I think, attract interest.

盧茨，你可以在英國替代網點上找到答案。聽著，我認為私募股權對 Odido Benelux 資產的興趣是顯而易見的。你談論的是一個有很多相似之處的特定區域，合併後的 EBITDA 為 30 億美元，潛在的協同效應，如果所有權權益進一步整合，以及具有良好現金流特徵的明顯被低估的資產，等等。最後我要補充一點，基礎建設中未實現的價值，無論是透過有線、比利時的 NetCo 或來自荷蘭的鐵塔，這些價值尚未貨幣化。因此，我認為其中有很多有趣的元素可以吸引人們的興趣。

Would it be contingent on getting control of the underlying asset? Not necessarily. It doesn't appear to us to have to be contingent on that. And I think you'll have to ask our friends in Paddington what their long-term game plan is with the Dutch business. At this moment, there is no -- nothing to report. And I think they've obviously been highly focused on the perimeter that they're building and exiting certain markets and doubling down in others, you have to ask them where Holland sits in that scheme of things, that's for them to answer not us. But obviously, we're good partners. We've been good partners for a while. We're making moves here that we think will add value to our stock price long term but also are strategically accretive, and we're going to make those moves either way. Let's see what they instigate if anything, but we're moving forward.

是否取決於取得標的資產的控制權？不必要。在我們看來，這似乎不必取決於此。我想你得問問我們在帕丁頓的朋友，他們對荷蘭企業的長期計畫是什麼。目前，沒有什麼可報告的。我認為他們顯然高度關注他們正在建立和退出某些市場並在其他市場加倍投資的範圍，你必須問他們荷蘭在這個計劃中的位置，這是他們應該回答的，而不是我們。但顯然，我們是很好的合作夥伴。我們已經成為好合作夥伴有一段時間了。我們在這裡採取的舉措，我們認為從長遠來看會增加我們股價的價值，但也具有策略性增值作用，無論哪種方式，我們都會採取這些舉措。讓我們看看他們會煽動什麼，但我們正在前進。

Yes. On your question is the ARPU -- yes, Robert. So the short answer is we keep the ARPU premium. So we are not selling Virgin Media in areas network expansion cheaper than in other areas. We are getting more and more to regional pricing, but this is then a question how we use this in the future. So we are not doing this. What we have just launched is the ability for customers also to record in with fiber or the TV content. And therefore, before that, we have sold stream and -- which is the low-end video product plus broadband. So if you add that, you get to a little lower ARPU, but this is not because of we don't get the premium for Virgin Media. This is because the 360 product, the box was missing so far and how this will change.

是的。你的問題是 ARPU——是的，羅伯特。所以簡短的回答是我們保持 ARPU 溢價。因此，我們不會以比其他地區更便宜的價格出售維珍媒體網路擴張地區的產品。我們越來越多地採用區域定價，但這就是我們未來如何使用它的問題。所以我們不這樣做。我們剛推出的是客戶還可以透過光纖或電視內容錄製的功能。因此，在此之前，我們已經銷售了串流媒體——這是低階視訊產品加上寬頻。因此，如果加上這一點，您的 ARPU 會稍低一些，但這並不是因為我們沒有獲得 Virgin Media 的溢價。這是因為360產品，到目前為止盒子不見了，這將如何改變。

Our next question comes from the line of Steve Malcolm with Redburn Atlantic.

我們的下一個問題來自 Redburn Atlantic 的 Steve Malcolm。

First of all, just on the sort of status of the retail relationship between VMO2 and nexfibre, obviously, part of the lowered guidance for this year was you're maybe a little slow at the blocks and kind of getting all your marketing ducks lined up for [nex]. Where are you on that journey? Are you kind of up and running? Are you -- the net adds were a little late? This point in the market was a bit weak, but do you feel like you're where you need to be in terms of marketing that footprint?

首先，就 VMO2 和 nexfibre 之間的零售關係狀況而言，顯然，今年下調的指導方針的一部分是你在街區上可能有點慢，並且讓你所有的營銷鴨子都排隊了對於[下一個]。這段旅程中你在哪裡？你準備好了嗎？你是——網路添加有點晚了嗎？市場的這一點有點薄弱，但您覺得在行銷該足跡方面您是否處於需要的位置？

And then secondly, just, Mike, you raised the point on kind of your Liberty post Sunrise spin. Clearly, there's still a lot of interesting aspects of the story. But 1 of the concerns I have is that if the share price doesn't move, the market cap is going to be kind of low, $2.5 billion, $3 billion. Liquidity maybe becomes an issue. Is that something you've thought about at all? And any sort of steps you can take to deal with that in terms of buybacks and things like that? Just curious to make your thoughts on liquidity post spin.

其次，麥克，你提出了關於《自由》日出後旋轉的觀點。顯然，這個故事還有很多有趣的面向。但我擔心的一個問題是，如果股價不變，市值將會很低，25 億、30 億美元。流動性可能會成為一個問題。你有想過嗎？您可以採取什麼措施來處理回購等問題？只是想知道您對分拆後流動的看法。

Yes. Thanks for the question, Steve. Lutz, you can work up on nexfibre, but let me address the first -- the second question first. I want to make sure I understand it. Listen, we obviously believe that the steps we're taking in particular, the steps around Sunrise will force the issue, if you will. And as shareholders, and we're all shareholders here, if we receive a share of stock of Sunrise of a material value and the RemainCo, if you will, doesn't trade, then we'll be looking at what sort of steps we need to take to bridge that gap or shrink that gap with the RemainCo or do other -- take other steps.

是的。謝謝你的提問，史蒂夫。 Lutz，你可以研究 nexfibre，但讓我先解決第一個問題——第二個問題。我想確保我理解它。聽著，我們顯然相信，如果你願意的話，我們正在採取的措施，特別是圍繞日出採取的措施將迫使這個問題發生。作為股東，我們都是這裡的股東，如果我們收到了具有物質價值的 Sunrise 股票，而 RemainCo（如果您願意的話）不進行交易，那麼我們將考慮採取什麼樣的步驟需要採取措施彌合這一差距或縮小與留歐派的差距或採取其他措施。

But it's one step at a time. That's certainly how we're looking at it. We're not anticipating anything but a re-rating, if you will, of Liberty Global as a result of that spin. And as we continue to demonstrate that we're executing on our growth plans and our strategic plans and the assets that we own and control and the ones we're partners with are underlying -- are valuable assets.

但這是一次一步。我們當然也是這麼看的。如果你願意的話，我們預計 Liberty Global 會因為這次旋轉而重新評級。當我們繼續證明我們正在執行我們的成長計劃和策略計劃時，我們擁有和控制的資產以及我們合作夥伴的資產都是寶貴的資產。

The $3 billion point, I mean, I'm not sure if I followed that. Maybe Steve, just clarify the question around $3 billion, just so I'm clear on what you're getting at.

我的意思是，我不確定我是否遵循了 30 億美元這一點。也許史蒂夫，只是澄清一下 30 億美元左右的問題，這樣我就清楚你的意思了。

I guess, Mike, my sort of -- I think one of the issues you face is you're clearly sort of quite an esoteric company. You're listed in the U.S., you operate over here, market cap is quite full. You're quite complicated. And as the market cap shrinks, it's -- it becomes harder for investors, I guess, to sort of spend the time and liquidity in the shares potentially drives off. I mean, obviously, you had the problem with Telenet, very, very small but slightly different. But are you worried at all that if the market cap doesn't adjust the steps you're taking, that buying back stock becomes more difficult because liquidity is potentially impacted by the small size of the company? And just how you're thinking about that post Sunrise likely as a potentially a much smaller company again?

我想，麥克，我認為你面臨的問題之一是你顯然是一家相當深奧的公司。你在美國上市，在這裡運營，市值已經相當滿了。你這個情況還挺複雜的。我想，隨著市值縮水，投資人將變得更難將時間和流動性花在可能會消失的股票上。我的意思是，顯然，您在 Telenet 方面遇到了問題，非常非常小，但略有不同。但您是否擔心，如果市值不調整您正在採取的步驟，回購股票就會變得更加困難，因為流動性可能會受到公司規模較小的影響？您如何看待日出之後可能再次成為規模小得多的公司？

Yes. I understand your point. I mean our expectation is that the RemainCo trades up from where it is today because we believe, obviously, depending on how the spin works and the value attributed to the shares, that in the remaining assets are equally undervalued. Now you make a point, hey, they might just continue to trade where they trade. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. At this point, our expectation is that the RemainCo will be re-rated and that the underlying businesses we continue to own in the U.K., in Belgium and other markets will be valued on a similar basis because we've demonstrated that there is intrinsic value not being recognized in the stock. If that doesn't occur, we'll cross that bridge when we cross it. And at this point, I'm not going to tell you prematurely what we may or may not do, but you raised good points, and let's see how it unfolds.

是的。我明白你的意思。我的意思是，我們的預期是，RemainCo 的交易價格會比現在的水平更高，因為我們相信，顯然，根據分拆的運作方式和股票的價值，剩餘資產同樣被低估。現在你提出一個觀點，嘿，他們可能會繼續在他們交易的地方進行交易。當我們到達那座橋時，我們就會過橋。目前，我們的預期是，RemainCo 將被重新評級，並且我們繼續在英國、比利時和其他市場擁有的基礎業務將在類似的基礎上進行估值，因為我們已經證明了其內在價值未在庫存中得到認可。如果這沒有發生，我們過橋時就會過橋。在這一點上，我不會過早告訴你我們可以做什麼或不可以做什麼，但你提出了很好的觀點，讓我們看看它是如何展開的。

I'm pretty confident that of 2 things. One, that the Swiss transaction is going to be a game changer and is going to happen, and we're all going to be very thankful that it does happen. And that secondly, it will reset how people view the Liberty Global in terms of how we're both approaching value creation as well as value distribution and where our heads are at in terms of the remaining businesses we own and control and how we build value with those businesses. But let's see. I understand your point. I'm not going to guess that -- things prematurely, let's see how things unfold.

我對兩件事非常有信心。第一，瑞士的交易將改變遊戲規則並且將會發生，我們都將非常感謝它確實發生。其次，它將重新設定人們對 Liberty Global 的看法，包括我們如何實現價值創造和價值分配，以及我們對我們擁有和控制的剩餘業務以及我們如何創造價值的思考。但讓我們看看。我明白你的意思。我不會猜測——事情還為時過早，讓我們看看事情如何展開。

Lutz, do you want to address the nexfibre point?

Lutz，你想解決下一個纖維問題嗎？

Yes. Yes. Yes. So I mean I agree, right? We have 1 million homes built and so therefore, now the sales machine is ramping, and it has to further ramp quarter-over-quarter over quarter. And our relationship with nexfibre is very good because, first, you need to build a network, right? And a year ago, the big question was, hey, you have to double your bill. Is this working, blah, blah, blah. And it did, right? We celebrated 1 million homes. And now the question is, do you get to the penetration we need for this network? And what the nexfibre team is able to see is what I said before that month over month, we are selling more, more and more.

是的。是的。是的。所以我的意思是我同意，對吧？我們已經建造了 100 萬套房屋，因此，現在銷售機器正在增加，必須逐季度進一步增加。我們與 nexfibre 的關係非常好，因為首先你需要建立一個網絡，對嗎？一年前，最大的問題是，嘿，你的帳單必須加倍。這還有用嗎，哈哈哈哈哈哈確實如此，對吧？我們慶祝了 100 萬個家庭。現在的問題是，你能達到我們這個網路所需的滲透率嗎？ nexfibre 團隊能夠看到的是我之前所說的，一個月又一個月，我們的銷售量越來越多。

And the driver for that first was get the fiber product ready, right? So therefore, we couldn't simply keep doing what we were doing with Lightning because that was Cox. And second now, we have to ramp the sales channels, especially field sales, right? As you can imagine, if you have now much more homes you want to penetrate, you need the field sales channel to target these customers where build is. And so we are ramping month-over-month also our field sales team and train them. And therefore, we are confident that we are getting to the number we have agreed with nexfibre end of this year.

首先的驅動力是準備好纖維產品，對嗎？因此，我們不能簡單地繼續做我們對閃電網路所做的事情，因為那是考克斯。其次，我們現在必須擴大銷售管道，尤其是現場銷售，對吧？正如您可以想像的那樣，如果您現在想要滲透更多的房屋，您需要現場銷售管道來瞄準這些正在建造的客戶。因此，我們也逐月加強我們的現場銷售團隊並對他們進行培訓。因此，我們有信心在今年年底達到與 nexfibre 商定的數字。

Our next question comes from the line of Matthew Harrigan with the Benchmark Company.

我們的下一個問題來自 Benchmark 公司的 Matthew Harrigan。

I actually have 2 questions. I think I'll do some -- the mundane 1 first. When you look at Liberty Global versus the U.S. and you've got some advantages in terms of greenfield JVs and all that. But if you look at the core business, you're doing better than the U.S. peers on units. Both of you are realizing pricing power, but they've got -- video business is just falling off a cliff. And I do think there's some decent contribution margin there, even though they really downplay it.

我實際上有兩個問題。我想我會先做一些平凡的事情。當你看看 Liberty Global 與美國的比較時，你會發現在綠地合資企業等方面有一些優勢。但如果你看看核心業務，你會發現你在單位方面比美國同行做得更好。你們倆都意識到了定價權，但他們已經意識到——視訊業務正在跌落懸崖。我確實認為那裡有一些不錯的邊際貢獻，儘管他們確實淡化了這一點。

When you look at your video business, you're losing some units, but certainly no sense if it's going off a cliff. And you really have the benefit from consumers and moving to streaming on the consumption side, you benefit in your broadband business. And I think you probably have a much better contribution margins as well as stability outside the U.K. on the continent on the video business. And it's obviously not something that's terribly planned, you don't talk about it very much. But do you have any thoughts on how that lays in strategically with what else you're doing on your core operations? And then I have a follow-up after that.

當你審視你的視訊業務時，你會發現你正在失去一些單位，但如果它跌落懸崖，那當然是沒有意義的。您確實可以從消費者那裡受益，並且在消費方面轉向串流媒體，您可以從寬頻業務中受益。我認為，在英國以外的歐洲大陸，視訊業務可能有更好的邊際貢獻和穩定性。這顯然不是一個經過精心計劃的事情，你也不會談論太多。但是，您是否認為這與您在核心業務上所做的其他事情在策略上有何關係？之後我會跟進。

Well, I think you've characterized it accurately, Matt. While we are dealing with many of the same trends that the U.S. operators are dealing with, we're not impacted nearly as severely. So our video losses are a fraction of the U.S. losses, for example. The trend is the same. We're not growing the video base. In some cases, we're trying to remain steady at the video base. We're migrating quickly to IP boxes. We've got every app integrated. So we're doing all the same things to make the video product as part of the bundle attractive to people, including very cheap and careful IP devices and making it easy, even subsidizing a certain streaming services. So we're trying to keep people connected as video customers, but we're not losing customers at the same clip and are unlikely to lose customers at the same clip as a U.S. guy. So that is absolutely the case. And we're not losing broadband subs in the same manner either. In fact, we're generally growing broadband some to the exception of really Holland, which has been a tough market, and we've discussed that every quarter. We're generally growing broadband customers and taking our fair share or more.

嗯，我認為你已經準確地描述了它，馬特。雖然我們面臨的許多趨勢與美國營運商面臨的趨勢相同，但我們受到的影響卻沒有那麼嚴重。例如，我們的視訊損失只是美國損失的一小部分。趨勢是一樣的。我們不會擴大視訊庫。在某些情況下，我們會努力保持視訊基礎的穩定。我們正在快速遷移到 IP 盒子。我們已經整合了每個應用程式。因此，我們正在做所有相同的事情來使視訊產品作為捆綁包的一部分對人們有吸引力，包括非常便宜和謹慎的 IP 設備並使其變得容易，甚至補貼某些串流媒體服務。因此，我們正在努力讓人們作為視訊客戶保持聯繫，但我們不會在同一剪輯中失去客戶，也不太可能像美國人一樣在同一剪輯中失去客戶。所以情況絕對是如此。我們也不會以同樣的方式失去寬頻用戶。事實上，除了荷蘭以外，我們普遍都在發展寬頻，荷蘭市場一直很艱難，我們每季都會討論這個問題。我們通常會增加寬頻客戶並獲得我們公平的份額或更多。

So I think there's -- and our contribution margins are, my guess, pretty good. I mean relative to the U.S. guys, I don't have their numbers to hand. Broadband margins are 90-plus percent. And our video margins, especially on the continent are probably 75%, 80%. So I think these businesses, while relatively small, the video business for us in the aggregate is more stable. Having said that, we're putting our effort on -- 50% of our revenue is now mobile. So the mobile business for us is not a hobby as it is in the U.S., it's a core revenue stream. And thankfully, it's growing every quarter. Mobile service revenue grows every single quarter. So we have a growth business, along with B2B. B2B and mobile are growing every quarter. And that, to us, is a fantastic accelerant and tailwind. It's the fixed business that we constantly look to improve, whether that's through -- on the broadband side and investments we're making in fiber bundling.

所以我認為——而且我猜我們的邊際貢獻相當不錯。我的意思是，相對於美國人，我沒有他們的數據。寬頻利潤率高達 90% 以上。我們的影片利潤率，尤其是在非洲大陸，可能是 75%、80%。所以我認為這些業務雖然規模相對較小，但總的來說，我們的影片業務更加穩定。話雖如此，我們正在努力工作——現在我們 50% 的收入來自行動端。因此，行動業務對我們來說並不像在美國那樣是一種愛好，而是一個核心收入來源。值得慶幸的是，它每個季度都在增長。行動服務收入每季都在成長。所以我們的業務以及 B2B 業務都在成長。 B2B 和行動裝置每季都在成長。對我們來說，這是一個極好的促進劑和順風車。我們不斷尋求改進的是固定業務，無論是透過寬頻方面還是我們在光纖捆綁方面的投資。

And so that's the piece of the puzzle that we're investing a lot of time and energy into as well as capital costs. And I think it's working. If you look at our fixed ARPUs over the last 4 or 5 quarters, they're either improving in every market or nicely positive. So I think we're having -- it's having an impact on us. And so we are in the same industry, of course, but we're not struggling or faced with the same headwinds and obstacles that the U.S. guys are. I think we're in a better position personally.

這就是我們投入大量時間和精力以及資本成本的難題。我認為它正在發揮作用。如果您查看過去 4 或 5 個季度的固定 ARPU，您會發現每個市場的 ARPU 值要么都在提高，要么非常積極。所以我認為我們正在對我們產生影響。當然，我們處於同一個行業，但我們並沒有像美國公司那樣苦苦掙扎或面臨同樣的逆風和障礙。我認為我們個人處於更好的位置。

What was your second question, Matt?

馬特，你的第二個問題是什麼？

Yes. More conjecturally, when you look at NetCos, I mean, over a period of time, intermediate, it seems like that could be a nice new growth sector and layers that need more complexity when your JVs already have JVs, unfortunately. But it's interesting when you look at NetCo and various consultancy studies, a lot of tech company and tech growth has kind of been almost a free rider phenomenon on your network, 5G as well over a period of time. Is there anything -- when you did NetCos, is there anything that makes the structure -- could make it structurally easier for you to capture growth in new tech businesses other than what you've done with your venture portfolio, which has already made a nice contribution just in terms of how the economics of that could lay out so you get more contribution from that?

是的。更進一步推測，當你看NetCos 時，我的意思是，在一段時間內，中間，這似乎可能是一個不錯的新增長部門和層次，不幸的是，當你的合資企業已經擁有合資企業時，它們需要更多的複雜性。但有趣的是，當你看看 NetCo 和各種顧問研究時，你會發現，在一段時間內，許多科技公司和科技成長幾乎成為你的網路、5G 上的搭便車現象。當你創建 NetCos 時，有什麼東西可以讓你在結構上更容易地捕捉新技術業務的增長，而不是你對風險投資組合所做的事情，風險投資組合已經取得了巨大的成功。貢獻只是就其經濟學如何佈局而言，以便您從中獲得更多貢獻？

Well, that's a good question. I mean, look, the NetCos that are embedded inside of our OpCos, if you will, are owned by the OpCo. So any benefit to the -- that comes from setting up a NetCo, financing a NetCo, selling a NetCo, partnering with a NetCo bringing in new revenue streams to that NetCo are going to accrue to the owners of the OpCo and that's not really our ventures portfolio as such. Having said that, we certainly are always looking at ways to create additional value in and around those NetCos. We're looking at metro fiber, for example, our investment in data centers and the edge. Those things all relate. The OpCos aren't pursuing those business opportunities, but we at the ventures are pursuing those kinds of business opportunities around the OpCos, if you will.

嗯，這是個好問題。我的意思是，如果你願意的話，嵌入我們 OpCo 內部的 NetCo 歸 OpCo 所有。因此，任何來自於建立 NetCo、為 NetCo 提供融資、出售 NetCo、與 NetCo 合作為 NetCo 帶來新的收入來源的任何好處都將歸 OpCo 的所有者所有，而這實際上並不是我們的利益。投資組合本身。話雖如此，我們當然一直在尋找在這些網路公司內部和周圍創造附加價值的方法。例如，我們正在關注城域光纖，我們對資料中心和邊緣的投資。這些事情都是相關的。 OpCo 並不追求這些商機，但如果你願意的話，我們這些合資企業正在圍繞 OpCo 尋求此類商機。

In some cases, we'll work together. There's opportunities for VMO2, too, to do work for us on our charging points what we're trying to build in the U.K. So there will be, I would say, synergies. But I think the ownership of these opportunities are pretty distinct. We have partners in the U.K. and what we do has to be something TEF wants VMO2 to do. So there's quite, I think, an appropriate set of governance rules there.

在某些情況下，我們會一起工作。 VMO2 也有機會為我們在英國嘗試建造的充電站開展工作。但我認為這些機會的所有權是非常明顯的。我們在英國有合作夥伴，我們所做的事情必須是 TEF 希望 VMO2 做的事情。因此，我認為，那裡有一套適當的治理規則。

But I think they do fuel each other. There are benefits for sure. And I think you'll see us take advantage of any and every opportunity to invest in infrastructure in and around our OpCos as those OpCos themselves take advantage of the infrastructure they've been sitting on for decades and try to finance those and identify value in those in a new way.

但我認為它們確實互相促進。肯定有好處。我想你會看到我們利用一切機會投資我們的營運公司及其周圍的基礎設施，因為這些營運公司本身利用他們已經坐擁數十年的基礎設施，並試圖為這些基礎設施提供融資並確定其中的價值。

I think operator we have time for one more question.

我想接線生我們還有時間再問一個問題。

Our final question comes from the line of Carl Murdock-Smith with Berenberg.

我們的最後一個問題來自卡爾·默多克·史密斯和貝倫貝格的關係。

On a kind of similar point, I'd like to address your waterfall chart on Slide 10, where you talk about your view that the equity is mispriced and valuing the FMC operations at 0. I think I agree that the equity is mispriced, but I disagree with the component parts of that slightly. And I guess my point would be on the Ventures portfolio and whether the Ventures portfolio is being priced at the value at which you are attributing to it. And I guess my question is, do you think that the share price is giving you a right to play in that market? Or is it being discounted unfairly in the share price?

在類似的一點上，我想談談幻燈片 10 上的瀑布圖，您在其中談到了您的觀點，即股權定價錯誤並將 FMC 業務估值為 0。不太同意其中的組成部分。我想我的觀點是關於創投組合以及創投組合的定價是否符合您所賦予的價值。我想我的問題是，您認為股價賦予您參與該市場的權利嗎？還是股價被不公平地折價了？

And with your comments that there could be another $300 million, $400 million additional pipeline monetization by the year-end, kind of will that be the start of a longer-term trend to seek to monetize those Ventures portfolios? Or I suppose the flip side is every time I hear talk about AtlasEdge or EdgeConneX, you sound very excitable. So the question is, is that -- should the size of that ventures portfolio go up, down on a longer-term view?

根據您的評論，到年底可能會有另外 3 億美元、4 億美元的額外管道貨幣化，這是否會成為尋求將這些風險投資組合貨幣化的長期趨勢的開始？或者我想另一面是每次我聽到有關 AtlasEdge 或 EdgeConneX 的談論時，你聽起來都非常興奮。所以問題是，從長遠來看，創投組合的規模應該增加還是減少？

Yes, it's a good question. I'll just make a couple of points upfront. We're not coming up with that value for the ventures portfolio. That's Deloitte coming up with that value. So we're very conservative and I think very rigorous in how value is ascribed to those assets within the portfolio. It's not like we're making it up. That's point one. Whether or not people are giving us full value for that is a judgment call. It's hard to know. Nobody is giving us their views on a day-to-day basis. I will say, however, that we just demonstrated with All3Media that an asset that was, if you're right, getting no value just we just sold for 12 times.

是的，這是一個好問題。我先提幾點。我們並沒有提出創投組合的價值。這是德勤提出的這個值。因此，我們非常保守，而且我認為對於如何賦予投資組合中的這些資產價值非常嚴格。這不像是我們在彌補。這是第一點。人們是否給予我們充分的價值取決於我們的判斷。很難知道。沒有人每天向我們提供他們的觀點。然而，我要說的是，我們剛剛與 All3Media 一起證明了一項資產，如果你是對的，我們只是出售了 12 次，就沒有任何價值。

So I think there is -- the truth is the portfolio consists of a number of verticals. Some of those verticals are perhaps at a different stage of development than others. I would say our content vertical, which is our largest has more in it to rationalize and potentially exit or monetize. And so we'll see how that goes. The infrastructure side of things is a bit of both. We've got some things that we could possibly monetize, but we're also excited by the infrastructure opportunities that are right in front of our noses and we have a right to play in those spaces. So that could be a bit of both. And the tech stuff pays for itself. I mean everything we invest in tech is more or less funded by exits that they are creating for themselves annually. And the benefit we get from tech is really accrues to the OpCos as much as anything because we're investing in AI companies, in cloud companies, in security companies, all of which we hope will be customers or partners and suppliers of our OpCos as well.

所以我認為事實是投資組合由許多垂直領域組成。其中一些垂直行業可能與其他行業處於不同的發展階段。我想說的是，我們最大的內容垂直領域有更多的內容需要合理化，並可能退出或貨幣化。所以我們會看看情況如何。基礎設施方面兩者兼而有之。我們有一些可以貨幣化的東西，但我們也對眼前的基礎設施機會感到興奮，我們有權在這些空間中發揮作用。所以這可能是兩者兼具。而科技產品本身就能回收成本。我的意思是，我們對科技的投資或多或少都是由他們每年為自己創造的退出來資助的。我們從技術中獲得的好處實際上也歸於營運公司，因為我們正在投資人工智慧公司、雲端公司、安全公司，我們希望所有這些公司都成為我們營運公司的客戶、合作夥伴和供應商。

So it's a bit of -- it's not a simple story. I appreciate that. But the 3 verticals have their own unique characteristics. We are where we are. These assets have been built over time, and it's the right question, what will it look like in 1, 2 and 3 years. And then we'll see. I'd say there's going to be a bit of both, a bit of monetization and a bit of investment and 3 could become 4, 3 could become 2. Let's see how it goes. We're not setting a target that it has to be a particular number, but we are very disciplined about it. And we are focused on things that we think investors will understand and appreciate, like infrastructure, for example. And we're making decisions that in light of the broader business we're in.

所以這不是一個簡單的故事。我很感激。但這三個垂直領域都有自己獨特的特色。我們就在我們所在的地方。這些資產是隨著時間的推移而建立的，這是正確的問題，1年、2年和3年後它會是什麼樣子。然後我們就會看到。我想說，兩者都會有一點，一點貨幣化和一點投資，3 可能變成 4，3 可能變成 2。我們並沒有設定一個必須是特定數字的目標，但我們對此非常嚴格。我們專注於我們認為投資者會理解和欣賞的事情，例如基礎設施。我們正在根據我們所處的更廣泛的業務做出決定。

So for example, exiting All3Media and putting that capital into Sunrise, was that accidental? Not really, right? We're thinking about right pocket, left pocket all the time. And I think we'll continue to look at this portfolio of assets as both an opportunity to create value, but an opportunity to redistribute value into other strategic initiatives that we hope will bridge the gap in our stock.

例如，退出 All3Media 並將資金投入 Sunrise，這是偶然的嗎？不是真的，對吧？我們一直在考慮右口袋、左口袋。我認為我們將繼續將這項資產組合視為創造價值的機會，也是將價值重新分配到其他策略舉措的機會，我們希望這些策略舉措能彌補我們的股票缺口。

So long answer, but I think we're looking at it in a flexible way, not a predetermined way. And that's how we'll focus on it going forward.

答案很長，但我認為我們正在以靈活的方式而不是預定的方式來看待它。這就是我們未來關注的重點。

Operator, I think that's it. So listen, everybody, appreciate you joining us today, as always, and hopefully, you got a lot out of what we had to say in the update in particular on the 5 initiatives and what we've been able to do in a short 10 weeks. In each of those instances, we're -- in the balance of the year, we're focused on growth, on strategic positioning of our OpCos and also trying to find ways to monetize or create value with the embedded assets that those OpCos have. And then ultimately delivering that value to you. So the Sunrise transaction is front and center for us. You should assume we're prioritizing things that we think will create value for shareholders, and we look forward to updating you on the next quarter. So thanks for joining us.

運營商，我想就是這樣。所以聽著，大家，感謝你們今天一如既往地加入我們，希望你們能從我們在更新中所說的內容中得到很多東西，特別是關於 5 項舉措以及我們在短短 10 年內能夠做的事情幾週。在每一種情況下，我們在今年餘下的時間裡，都專注於成長、營運公司的策略定位，並試圖找到利用這些營運公司擁有的嵌入式資產貨幣化或創造價值的方法。然後最終為您提供該價值。因此，日出交易對我們來說是首要和中心。您應該假設我們正在優先考慮我們認為將為股東創造價值的事情，並且我們期待在下個季度向您提供最新資訊。感謝您加入我們。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes Liberty Global's First Quarter 2024 Investor Call. As a reminder, a replay of the call will be available in the Investor Relations section of Liberty Global's website. There, you can also find a copy of today's presentation materials.

女士們先生們，Liberty Global 2024 年第一季投資者電話會議到此結束。請注意，Liberty Global 網站的投資者關係部分將提供電話會議的重播。在那裡，您還可以找到今天演示材料的副本。