Liberty Broadband Corp (LBRDK) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Liberty Broadband 2023 Year-end Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded today, February 16, 2024.

歡迎參加 Liberty Broadband 2023 年年終收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次會議於今天（2024 年 2 月 16 日）錄製。

I would now like to turn the call over to Shane Kleinstein, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係高級副總裁 Shane Kleinstein。請繼續。

Thank you. Before we begin, we'd like to remind everyone that this call includes certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Actual events or results could differ materially due to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those mentioned in the most recent Forms 10-K filed by Liberty Broadband and Liberty TripAdvisor with the SEC. These forward-looking statements speak only as of the date of this call, and Liberty Broadband and Liberty TripAdvisor expressly disclaim any obligation or undertaking to disseminate any updates or revisions to any forward-looking statements contained herein to reflect any change in Liberty Broadband or Liberty TripAdvisor's expectations with regard thereto or any change in events, conditions or circumstances on which any such statement is based.

謝謝。在開始之前，我們想提醒大家，本次電話會議包含1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的某些前瞻性陳述。由於許多風險和不確定因素，實際事件或結果可能會存在重大差異，包括Liberty Broadband 和 Liberty TripAdvisor 向 SEC 提交的最新 10-K 表格中提到的內容。這些前瞻性陳述僅代表本次電話會議之日的情況，Liberty Broadband 和Liberty TripAdvisor 明確表示不承擔任何義務或承諾傳播本文中包含的任何前瞻性陳述的任何更新或修訂，以反映Liberty Broadband 或Liberty 的任何變更TripAdvisor 對此的期望或任何此類聲明所依據的事件、條件或情況的任何變更。

On today's call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures for Liberty Broadband, including adjusted OIBDA. Information regarding the comparable GAAP metrics, along with the required definitions and reconciliations, including preliminary note and Schedules 1 and 2, can be found in the earnings press release issued today as well as earnings releases for prior periods, which are available on Liberty Broadband's website.

在今天的電話會議上，我們將討論 Liberty Broadband 的某些非 GAAP 財務指標，包括調整後的 OIBDA。有關可比較GAAP 指標的信息，以及所需的定義和調節，包括初步說明和附表1 和附表2，可以在今天發布的收益新聞稿以及前期收益發布中找到，這些信息可在Liberty Broadband 網站上找到。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Greg Maffei, Liberty's President and CEO.

現在我想將電話轉給 Liberty 總裁兼執行長 Greg Maffei。

Thank you, Shane, and good morning. Today speaking on the call, we will have also Liberty Broadband's Chief Accounting Officer and Principal Financial Officer, Brian Wendling; Ron Duncan, CEO of GCI; and Pete Pounds of GCI will also be available to answer questions. During Q&A, we will also be available to answer questions related to Liberty TripAdvisor.

謝謝你，謝恩，早安。今天在電話會議上發言的還有 Liberty Broadband 的首席會計官兼財務長 Brian Wendling；羅恩鄧肯 (Ron Duncan)，GCI 執行長； GCI 的 Pete Pounds 也將出席並回答問題。在問答期間，我們也將回答與 Liberty TripAdvisor 相關的問題。

So I'm going to begin with Liberty Broadband. We resumed repurchases of our Liberty Broadband shares using proceeds from the Charter share repurchases sales in October. From the 1st of November to the end of January, we repurchased $385 million of proceeds -- received $385 million of proceeds from Charter sales and spent $255 million on LBRD repurchases.

我將從 Liberty Broadband 開始。我們使用 10 月的 Charter 股票回購銷售所得收益恢復了 Liberty Broadband 股票的回購。從 11 月 1 日到 1 月底，我們回購了 3.85 億美元的收益——從包機銷售中獲得了 3.85 億美元的收益，並花費了 2.55 億美元用於 LBRD 回購。

Similar to last year, under our 25 -- 26% fully diluted ownership cap, the early 2024 grants that Charter made slowed down their repurchases or our requirements to be repurchased. And therefore, we do not expect to sell into the Charter back -- buyback in the next few months. Once we exceed the cap of 26%, we plan to resume the LBRD buyback.

與去年類似，在我們 25% 至 26% 的完全稀釋所有權上限下，Charter 於 2024 年初發放的贈款減緩了他們的回購或我們的回購要求。因此，我們預計不會在未來幾個月內回購憲章。一旦超過 26% 的上限，我們計劃恢復 LBRD 回購。

Looking at Charter itself, we certainly acknowledge there were near-term headwinds in the quarter, which impacted broadband unit growth. The fourth quarter was also -- felt a delayed impact from the Disney dispute at the end of the third quarter. There's been a consistent trend in 2023 of increased competition from fixed wireless, but we do believe the competitive noise will lessen over time.

看看 Charter 本身，我們當然承認本季存在近期阻力，這影響了寬頻業務的成長。第四季也感受到了第三季末迪士尼糾紛的延遲影響。到 2023 年，固定無線網路的競爭將持續加劇，但我們相信，隨著時間的推移，競爭噪音將會減弱。

Fixed wireless assets will have capacity issues over the long term, and the operators have been clear on their limitations. And we do believe that bandwidth demands will continue to increase among consumers, which will favor higher speeds.

從長遠來看，固定無線資產將出現容量問題，營運商已經清楚其限制。我們確實相信消費者的頻寬需求將繼續增加，這將有利於更高的速度。

We are long-term shareholders. We are confident the strategic investments that Charter is making will generate excellent returns and accelerate growth over the next few periods. Charter assets will provide the highest speed and the converged of -- of a converged offering at the most competitive prices for consumers.

我們是長期股東。我們相信，Charter 正在進行的策略投資將在未來幾個時期產生豐厚的回報並加速成長。包機資產將以最具競爭力的價格為消費者提供最高的速度和融合產品。

Spectrum One is continuing to drive mobile growth and reducing churn. Charter was able to add 2.5 million mobile line net adds during 2023. That's a nearly 50% growth over the prior year. And we saw no uptick in churn from the initial cohorts who are rolling off the promotional periods in the fourth quarter.

Spectrum One 正在繼續推動行動業務成長並減少客戶流失。 Charter 在 2023 年期間淨增加了 250 萬行動線路用戶。這比前一年增長了近 50%。我們發現，第四季促銷期結束後的最初一批客戶的流失率並沒有上升。

As you would expect, the Internet-plus-mobile customers are stickier than Internet-only customers. Another positive news, the rural expansion is beating penetration, ARPU and ROI targets. The network evolution at Charter remains on course with fast, low-cost upgrades at about $100 per passing. We don't believe competitors can replicate that upgrade path over their footprint. As management has outlined, the long-term CapEx outlook excluding BEAD is expected to materially step down from 2027 to normalized levels.

正如您所料，互聯網+行動客戶比純網路客戶更具黏性。另一個正面消息是，農村擴張正在超越滲透率、ARPU 和投資回報率目標。 Charter 的網路發展仍在繼續，每次升級速度快、成本低，每次升級費用約為 100 美元。我們不相信競爭對手可以在其足跡上複製這種升級路徑。正如管理層所概述的，不包括 BEAD 的長期資本支出前景預計將從 2027 年大幅下降至正常化水準。

Let me touch on Liberty Trip. We filed an amendment to our 13D. We were authorized by the Board to engage in acquisition discussions, and we will not comment further on those discussions unless definitive documents are executed or the discussions are terminated.

讓我談談自由之旅。我們對 13D 進行了修訂。我們已獲得董事會授權參與收購討論，除非執行最終文件或討論終止，否則我們不會對這些討論進一步發表評論。

Looking at TripAdvisor itself. TripAdvisor had a strong 2023 operating results, particularly in the back half. Q4 revenue was up 10% over the prior year. Q4 EBITDA and margin expansion exceeded expectations. There was outperformance at the recently renamed brand, TripAdvisor. The Viator break-even profitability was reached earlier than anticipated. And there were marketing efficiencies at brand TripAdvisor and Viator that allowed us to have better-than-expected performance. And we continue to move on cost-saving actions, which are improving margins.

看看 TripAdvisor 本身。 TripAdvisor 2023 年的營運表現強勁，尤其是下半年。第四季營收比去年同期成長 10%。第四季 EBITDA 和利潤率擴張超出預期。最近更名的品牌 TripAdvisor 表現出色。 Viator 的損益兩平獲利能力比預期更早達到。 TripAdvisor 和 Viator 品牌的行銷效率使我們獲得了好於預期的績效。我們繼續採取節省成本的行動，從而提高利潤率。

We've seen great successful diversification of the revenue at TripAdvisor with the Viator and TheFork nearly being 50% of 2023 revenue. In comparison, they were less than 10% in 2015. And its experiences are now half -- almost half the level of brand TripAdvisor.

我們看到 TripAdvisor 的收入多元化取得了巨大成功，Viator 和 TheFork 幾乎佔 2023 年收入的 50%。相較之下，2015 年他們的比例還不到 10%。而現在它的體驗已經是 TripAdvisor 品牌水準的一半了。

We've also seen increased repeat rates among customers. For example, at Viator, the Q4 gross booking value from repeat customers exceeded new travelers for the first time. Management is focused on long-term strategic opportunities and GenAI-driven product enhancements like TRIP tools to drive engagement and growth, and we think we are optimistic about those results.

我們也發現客戶的重複率增加。例如，在 Viator，第四季回頭客的總預訂額首次超過了新旅客。管理層專注於長期策略機會和 GenAI 驅動的產品增強（例如 TRIP 工具），以推動參與和成長，我們認為我們對這些結果感到樂觀。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Brian to discuss the financials.

接下來，我會交給布萊恩討論財務問題。

Thank you, Greg. At quarter end, Liberty Broadband had consolidated cash and cash equivalents of $158 million, which includes $79 million of cash at GCI. The value of our Charter investment based on our shares held as of February 1 and Charter share price as of yesterday's close was $13.5 billion.

謝謝你，格雷格。截至季末，Liberty Broadband 的合併現金和現金等價物為 1.58 億美元，其中包括 GCI 的 7,900 萬美元現金。根據我們截至 2 月 1 日持有的股票和截至昨天收盤的 Charter 股價，我們的 Charter 投資價值為 135 億美元。

At quarter end, Liberty Broadband had a total principal amount of debt of $3.8 billion. Note that this excludes the preferred stock.

截至季末，Liberty Broadband 的債務本金總額為 38 億美元。請注意，這不包括優先股。

We are updating our annual tax rate guidance on our Charter sales for 2024 to low double digits. This conservatively assumes the DRD, the dividend received deduction, does not apply to charter sales for the book minimum tax under the Inflation Reduction Act. We are accruing for this higher tax rate in 2024, while additional guidance from the IRS and treasury is pending.

我們正在將 2024 年包機銷售的年度稅率指引更新為低兩位數。保守地假設 DRD（收到的股利扣除額）不適用於《通膨減少法案》下帳面最低稅的包機銷售。我們正在為 2024 年更高的稅率進行累計，同時美國國稅局和財政部的額外指導仍在等待中。

I note that any book minimum tax paid for 2024 will carry forward to offset regular income tax in future years to the extent regular income tax exceeds the book minimum tax, making this more of a timing impact. Consistent with prior years, we're not providing specific tax guidance beyond the current year.

我注意到，如果常規所得稅超過帳面最低稅額，2024 年支付的任何帳面最低稅額都將結轉以抵消未來幾年的常規所得稅，這更具時間影響。與往年一樣，我們不會提供本年度以外的具體稅務指導。

Looking at GCI, 2023 was a good year for the company with record revenue and adjusted OIBDA. GCI generated solid free cash flow and distributed $65 million of dividends to Liberty Broadband during the year. For the full year, revenue and adjusted OIBDA grew 1% to $931 million and $361 million, respectively, driven by the strong performance in business data revenue, offset by declines in other revenue, primarily video and voice. In the fourth quarter, revenue was flat and adjusted OIBDA decreased 1%. While we continue to see strong business data growth, this was offset by declines in other revenue and increased costs primarily in SG&A.

從 GCI 來看，2023 年對該公司來說是豐收的一年，營收和調整後的 OIBDA 均創歷史新高。 GCI 產生了穩定的自由現金流，並向 Liberty Broadband 派發了 6500 萬美元的股息。全年營收和調整後的 OIBDA 分別成長 1%，達到 9.31 億美元和 3.61 億美元，這得益於業務數據收入的強勁表現，但被其他收入（主要是視訊和語音）的下降所抵消。第四季營收持平，調整後的 OIBDA 下降 1%。雖然我們繼續看到強勁的業務數據成長，但這被其他收入的下降和主要是銷售管理費用的增加所抵消。

Operationally, GCI added 1,400 consumer cable modem subscribers and 4,800 consumer wireless customers in 2023. GCI's leverage as defined in its credit agreement was 2.9x at year-end, and GCI has $397 million of undrawn capacity under its revolver. We'd note that subsequent to year-end, GCI paid down an incremental $40 million under its revolving credit facility.

在營運方面，GCI 到2023 年將增加1,400 個消費者有線調變解調器用戶和4,800 個消費者無線用戶。截至年底，GCI 信貸協議中定義的槓桿率為2.9 倍，GCI 的循環資金下有3.97 億美元的未動用容量。我們注意到，年底後，GCI 根據其循環信貸安排支付了 4,000 萬美元的增量資金。

In 2023, GCI spent $216 million on capital expenditures net of proceeds received from federal and state grant funding. This is above prior expectations largely due to the timing of receiving certain grant proceeds. GCI's net capital expenditures for 2024 are expected to be approximately 200 million related to additional high-returning investments in middle- and last-mile connectivity with continued network expansion in our most important markets in rural Alaska, including Bethel and the AU-Aleutians fiber projects. Taking a proactive approach in rural connectivity projects is critical to securing necessary government funding.

2023 年，GCI 扣除聯邦和州撥款資金後的資本支出為 2.16 億美元。這超出了先前的預期，主要是由於收到某些贈款收益的時間。 GCI 2024 年的淨資本支出預計約為2 億美元，用於中途和最後一英里連接的額外高回報投資，以及阿拉斯加農村最重要市場（包括伯特利和非盟-阿留申光纖計畫）的持續網絡擴張。在農村互聯互通計畫中採取積極主動的做法對於確保必要的政府資金至關重要。

And with that, I'll turn call back over to Greg.

這樣，我會將電話轉回給格雷格。

Thank you, Brian. And to our listening audience, we appreciate your continued interest in Liberty Broadband and Liberty TripAdvisor.

謝謝你，布萊恩。對於我們的聽眾，我們感謝您對 Liberty Broadband 和 Liberty TripAdvisor 的持續關注。

And with that, operator, I'd like to open the line for questions.

那麼，接線員，我想開通提問專線。

(Operator Instructions) Our first questions come from the line of Michael Rollins with Citi.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Michael Rollins。

Two questions. First, what are your expectations as to whether or not the ACP program will be discontinued? And can you share your thoughts on the possible implications for each of GCI and Charter?

兩個問題。首先，您對 ACP 計劃是否會終止有何預期？您能否分享一下您對 GCI 和 Charter 可能產生的影響的看法？

And then secondly, just given the comments on being a long-term investor in Charter, does the current price for Charter change Liberty's interest to sell shares into Charter's buyback when needed to stay under the 26% cap?

其次，考慮到作為 Charter 的長期投資者的評論，Charter 目前的價格是否會改變 Liberty 在需要保持在 26% 上限以下時出售股票到 Charter 回購中的興趣？

Thank you for the question. I'll address ACP and the impact to Charter, my expectations. And then, Ron, maybe you'd like to talk about ACP and potential impact to GCI. And then I'll come back and talk about buyback.

感謝你的提問。我將討論 ACP 及其對憲章的影響和我的期望。然後，Ron，也許您想談談 ACP 以及對 GCI 的潛在影響。然後我會回來談論回購的事情。

So whether ACP will be renewed or not is certainly a guess into the wooly world of Washington. There is an enormous amount of support for it among many congressmen and senators, to our knowledge, and many of them are in red states, which actually received a majority of the ACP proceeds. So there is some reason for optimism, but trying to assume that there is a path forward that is clearing crisp in Washington is something that's beyond my capabilities.

因此，ACP 是否會續簽，肯定是華盛頓的羊毛世界的猜測。據我們所知，許多國會議員和參議員對此給予了大力支持，其中許多人來自紅色州，這些州實際上獲得了 ACP 收益的大部分。因此，我們有理由保持樂觀，但試圖假設華盛頓有一條清晰的前進道路超出了我的能力範圍。

The impact, a little unknown. Many of the ACP customers at Charter were customers prior to the ACP program. We think the demand for bandwidth, the requirements that customers have for bandwidth have only -- have grown. One of the complaints among some people in Washington is that this is a subsidy program, which isn't necessary because customers want the bandwidth. And that is a reason why some may not vote against it. That, of course, is not -- it's helpful for us in getting -- securing ACP funding, but it may also be correct that it indicates most customers will continue to take our broadband even in the absence of ACP. So it's hard to speculate on how much impact eliminating ACP would have or the cessation of ACP would have, but it's clearly not a positive on the margin.

影響，有點未知。 Charter 的許多 ACP 客戶都是 ACP 計劃之前的客戶。我們認為對頻寬的需求、客戶對頻寬的要求只會增加。華盛頓一些人的抱怨之一是，這是一項補貼計劃，沒有必要，因為客戶需要頻寬。這就是為什麼有些人可能不會投票反對的原因。當然，這對我們獲得 ACP 資金沒有幫助，但它表明即使沒有 ACP，大多數客戶也將繼續使用我們的寬頻，這也可能是正確的。因此，很難推測消除 ACP 或停止 ACP 會產生多大影響，但這顯然不是一個正面的邊際影響。

Ron, would you want to add anything?

羅恩，你想補充什麼嗎？

Just briefly, we're expecting minimal impact from an ACP discontinuance at GCI. Most of the customers on ACP were broadband customers to begin with. And we have budgeted a slight increase in bad debt and anticipate probably a little bit of an uptick in churn. I think ACP for us was doing more to reduce the churn ratio among customers who may struggle from build to bill.

簡而言之，我們預期 ACP 停產對 GCI 的影響極小。 ACP 上的大多數客戶一開始都是寬頻客戶。我們預計壞帳會略有增加，並預期客戶流失率可能會略有上升。我認為 ACP 對我們來說做了更多的工作來降低客戶的流失率，這些客戶可能會在從建造到帳單的過程中遇到困難。

But at the end of the day, I doubt that the effect of the ACP shift will be perceptible on the broadband side. I do believe there's an upside opportunity on wireless because nationwide, half of ACP goes to wireless providers. And with our GCI-plus offering in the market being hugely less expensive than the less -- than the least expensive AT&T and Verizon wireless offerings, the disappearance of ACP for wireless should create a competitive opportunity for us to grow wireless subs at the expense of AT&T and Verizon as they phase their customers off of ACP. So we see more positive coming out of it from the wireless side and expect very little impact on the wired side.

但歸根結底，我懷疑 ACP 轉變的影響是否會在寬頻方面顯現出來。我確實相信無線領域存在上升機會，因為在全國範圍內，一半的 ACP 流向了無線供應商。由於我們在市場上的 GCI+ 產品比最便宜的 AT&T 和 Verizon 無線產品便宜得多，無線 ACP 的消失應該為我們創造一個競爭機會，以犧牲AT&T 和 Verizon 正在逐步讓客戶不再使用 ACP。因此，我們看到無線方面會產生更多積極的影響，並且預計對有線方面的影響很小。

I'd just add on that, that all those statements about wireless and the impact are likely to have the same impact or affected Charter with how we're pushing our Spectrum One program.

我想補充一點，所有這些有關無線及其影響的聲明可能會對我們推動頻譜一計劃的方式產生相同的影響或影響憲章。

On the buyback issue, I think it's the case, we believe, Charter's long-term interest in -- and the question about whether to raise -- seek to raise the cap or continue and therefore not sell in shares to Charter or continue to buy back at our own on the LBRD, I think, look, you see us spending the majority of proceeds from Charter on LBRD repurchases. We've also seen some amount of debt reduction at LBRD use of the capital for that.

關於回購問題，我認為情況確實如此，我們相信，查特的長期利益以及是否籌集資金的問題尋求提高上限或繼續，因此不會向查特出售股票或繼續購買回到我們自己的LBRD，我想，你看，我們將Charter 的大部分收益用於LBRD 回購。我們也看到 LBRD 利用資金實現了一定程度的債務削減。

And the reality is because we're buying at a substantial discount to the LBRD price -- via the LBRD price to the underlying Charter, we still have the same set of incentives to use our capital for share repurchase and LBRD rather than raise the cap today because the discount is so much larger than the tax leakage. So I'm not sure it actually changes our program.

現實情況是，因為我們以相對 LBRD 價格大幅折扣的價格購買——透過基礎憲章的 LBRD 價格，我們仍然有同樣的激勵措施使用我們的資本進行股票回購和 LBRD，而不是提高上限今天，因為折扣比漏稅大得多。所以我不確定它是否真的改變了我們的計劃。

Our next questions come from the line of Barton Crockett with Rosenblatt Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自羅森布拉特證券公司的 Barton Crockett。

I guess 2 things. One, just kind of a big picture for Greg and then another kind of nuts and bolts on numbers. The bigger-picture question, Greg, is I was curious about your thought on some of the new skinny bundles or streaming bundles that are emerging from the media companies in terms of the legality or the appropriateness in an antitrust perspective. So specifically, the skinny sports bundle from Disney, Warner Bro.s, Fox, do you believe that Charter would have rights to offer the same kind of bundle or not? And do you think there's any kind of antitrust questions there?

我猜有兩件事。一，只是格雷格的一個大局，然後是另一個數字的具體細節。格雷格，更大的問題是，我很好奇您對媒體公司正在出現的一些新的瘦身捆綁或串流媒體捆綁從反壟斷角度的合法性或適當性的看法。那麼具體來說，迪士尼、華納兄弟、福克斯的瘦身體育捆綁包，你認為 Charter 是否有權提供相同類型的捆綁包？您認為其中存在任何類型的反壟斷問題嗎？

Similarly, I guess there are some reports that Comcast and Paramount have been discussing perhaps combining streaming efforts. And their streaming services include a lot of content from the broadcast networks, NBC, CBS. There's a prohibition at the FCC on dual network ownership and some antitrust, I think, questions about the video market there. So how do you feel about antitrust? And do you think that ends up being an issue that affects this? So that's kind of the big-picture question. And then I'll come back later with just a small numbers question.

同樣，我猜有一些報導稱康卡斯特和派拉蒙一直在討論或許合併串流媒體工作。他們的串流服務包括許多來自廣播網絡、NBC、CBS 的內容。我認為，聯邦通訊委員會禁止雙重網路所有權，並且存在一些有關視訊市場的反壟斷問題。那麼您對反壟斷有何看法？您認為這最終會成為影響這一問題的問題嗎？這是一個大局問題。然後我稍後會帶著一個小數字問題回來。

Okay, Barton. I'm only good on the big picture. So thank you for starting with that. The skinny bundles, I'm not sure how skinny that bundle is. But -- and I'm also uncertain about the antitrust implications. I've heard knowledgeable observers on both sides opine. And I really -- and I've not dug into it enough to have a firm view of my own.

好吧，巴頓。我只擅長大局觀。謝謝你從這個開始。瘦包，我不確定那個包有多瘦。但是——我也不確定反壟斷的影響。我聽到了雙方知識淵博的觀察家的意見。我真的——而且我還沒有深入研究它，無法對自己有一個堅定的看法。

The question about Charter, I think there is potentially an opportunity for -- as bundles are created that we are a distributor of that and as long-term positive than -- that we're making margin without risk. And we are continuing to drive demand for broadband as those packages shift. So I think in the -- while it's -- we certainly have not seen all of it at Charter and made a full evaluation of where it will go. On the margin, it feels positive to me both as an economic opportunity and as something which drives broadband.

關於 Charter 的問題，我認為，隨著捆綁包的創建，我們是其分銷商，並且從長遠來看，我們有可能在沒有風險的情況下賺取利潤。隨著這些套餐的變化，我們將繼續推動寬頻需求。因此，我認為，儘管如此，我們當然還沒有在憲章上看到所有這些，也沒有對它將走向何方進行全面評估。從某種程度上來說，這對我來說既是一個經濟機會，也是一個推動寬頻發展的正面因素。

Okay. Great. And then just a numbers question. I wanted to make sure I'm clear. When you say $200 million on CapEx this year, is that comparable to the $216 million? Or is that just on the expansion and the actual comparable number would be something different? There's that. And then your commentary on the tax rate for sales of Charter shares. Just -- I mean, can you give us just like a number? I'm not sure I quite followed what I should assume for a tax rate there.

好的。偉大的。然後只是一個數字問題。我想確保我說清楚了。當您說今年的資本支出為 2 億美元時，這與 2.16 億美元相當嗎？或者這只是在擴展上，實際可比較的數字會有所不同？就是這樣。然後是您對特許股票銷售稅率的評論。只是——我的意思是，你能給我們一個數字嗎？我不確定我是否完全遵循了我應該假設的稅率。

Yes. On the tax...

是的。關於稅...

Brian or Ron -- yes, go ahead, Brian. Thank you.

布萊恩或羅恩——是的，繼續吧，布萊恩。謝謝。

That's right. We're just giving you low double digits at this point, Barton. And then on the CapEx, yes, it's a comparable number, the $200 million to the $216 million.

這是正確的。巴頓，我們現在只給你低兩位數的數字。然後在資本支出方面，是的，這是一個可比較的數字，2 億美元到 2.16 億美元。

Our next questions come from the line of Ben Swinburne with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的本‧斯溫伯恩 (Ben Swinburne)。

I think these are big picture, so I think for you.

我認為這些都是大局，所以我也為你考慮。

Don't scare me with those details. Come on, Ben. Thank you.

別用這些細節嚇到我。來吧，本。謝謝。

I ask you the question I asked John back in November on Charter, which is why is 4.5x still the right leverage level. I think I know what your answer is, but obviously, the market has spoken, at least for now, on where they -- what they're thinking on Charter stock. So I'd be curious if there's a scenario where you think lower leverage is actually optimal.

我問你我在 11 月在 Charter 上問約翰的問題，這就是為什麼 4.5 倍仍然是正確的槓桿水平。我想我知道你的答案是什麼，但顯然，至少目前，市場已經表達了他們對 Charter 股票的看法。因此，我很好奇是否存在一種情況，您認為較低的槓桿率實際上是最佳的。

And then looking back on the Disney dispute, and you mentioned it in your prepared remarks that that's weighed on subs. Do you think that the objectives and the sort of what was extracted from that agreement by Charter has been worth some of the disruption in the business? And again, broadband net adds have an outsized impact on Charter stock versus their video business. So just wondering how you reflect on that.

然後回顧迪士尼的糾紛，你在準備好的發言中提到這對潛水艇造成了壓力。您認為憲章從該協議中提取的目標和內容是否值得對業務造成一些幹擾？與視訊業務相比，寬頻網路的增加對 Charter 的股票產生了巨大的影響。所以只是想知道你對此有何看法。

Well, I'll start with the -- obviously, with the leverage part. The question is, certainly, we have some shareholders asking the question, and we're weighing the relative merits. But we have at -- the Charter management team has shown the Board, I think, multiple scenarios about what lower leverage or high leverage might mean. And for the moment, we're pretty confident that right in the course given the diversity of maturities, the length of maturities, the likely movement in interest rates that even under most scenarios, we're better off holding the 4.5x leverage.

嗯，我將從——顯然是槓桿部分開始。當然，問題是，我們有一些股東提出了這個問題，我們正在權衡相對優點。但我認為，憲章管理團隊已經向董事會展示了關於低槓桿或高槓桿可能意味著什麼的多種情境。目前，我們非常有信心，鑑於期限的多樣性、期限的長短以及利率可能的變動，即使在大多數情況下，我們最好還是持有 4.5 倍的槓桿。

It's certainly a question that's open in the sense that we are responsive to our shareholders in general. I think the -- I can say for the 26% holder and I think probably -- not speaking for them, but correctly relaying their views for the 12% holder of advance in house. I think we're in agreement with management's proposal that 4.5% the right number. But we certainly look at it.

這當然是一個懸而未決的問題，因為我們總體上對股東做出了回應。我認為——我可以為 26% 的持有者說，我認為可能——不是為他們說話，而是為 12% 的預付款持有者正確地傳達他們的觀點。我認為我們同意管理層的建議，即 4.5% 是正確的數字。但我們確實會關注它。

And to the degree that there was massive pushback from shareholders you would want to pay attention, I don't think we've received that yet. I think we've received questions on the margin. And I think what's happened to the stock price is not a function. It may be exacerbated by the leverage, but it's a function of perception of broadband growth and how we're doing competitively in the marketplace rather than net leverage.

從股東的強烈反對程度來看，你可能會想要關注，但我認為我們還沒有收到這種反對意見。我想我們已經收到了一些關於邊緣的問題。我認為股價的變動不是一個函數。槓桿可能會加劇這種情況，但這是對寬頻成長的看法以及我們在市場上的競爭方式的函數，而不是淨槓桿。

Disney, look, I -- it's a long-term bet. It's a long-term play rather than just whether we feel that impacting a quarter or rolling -- bleeding into the second quarter on how to have a stable video business where we are more aligned and partnered with people like Disney. And I think you can make the same argument as we get to the sports bundle. But having that -- if it occurs or when it occurs, having ourselves align with them, having a role where we can be a distributor of that and having a role in these over-the-top offerings is the right strategy for the long term. And I think management still stands by that view, and I think we're on the same page.

迪士尼，看，我——這是一個長期的賭注。這是一個長期的遊戲，而不僅僅是我們是否認為會影響一個季度或滾動——在第二季度如何擁有穩定的視頻業務，讓我們與迪士尼等公司更加​​協調和合作。我認為你可以在我們談到體育捆綁時提出同樣的論點。但是，如果這種情況發生或發生時，讓我們與他們保持一致，發揮我們可以成為其分銷商的作用，並在這些頂級產品中發揮作用，從長遠來看是正確的策略。我認為管理層仍然堅持這一觀點，而且我認為我們的觀點是一致的。

Our next questions come from the line of Alex Nordhagen with Balyasny.

我們的下一個問題來自亞歷克斯·諾德哈根 (Alex Nordhagen) 和巴利亞斯尼 (Balyasny)。

I had 2 really around the cap stack. But on the first one, with the 20.51s, the half coupon, obviously, coupon that are put on callable from March '25, what is the kind of base case plan to deal with those, assuming that there isn't any sort of transaction? I would think you'd need to have a plan in place given the low cash balance at Liberty Trip right now. And then the second question I had was just in theory, if with respect to any acquisition discussions Certares was involved, would that need to be disclosed to the market or not?

我有 2 個真正的上限。但對於第一個，20.51s，半優惠券，顯然，從25年3月開始可贖回的優惠券，處理這些的基本情況計劃是什麼，假設沒有任何形式的交易？鑑於目前 Liberty Trip 的現金餘額較低，我認為您需要製定一個計劃。然後我的第二個問題只是理論上的，如果涉及任何收購討論 Certares，是否需要向市場披露？

Ben, are you there? Do you want to touch on the -- our plans. I think we're evaluating. We're not going to go reveal all. But Ben, what would you want to add?

本，你在嗎？您想談談我們的計劃嗎？我想我們正在評估。我們不會透露全部。但本，你想補充什麼？

Yes. I think we monitor it regularly, Alex. We think about what the different strategies are for addressing either a repayment of those securities or an extension of maturity. But we're probably not going to go into detail at this time.

是的。我想我們會定期監控它，亞歷克斯。我們思考解決這些證券的償還或期限延長的不同策略。但我們現在可能不會詳細討論。

And on -- I think I said I wouldn't comment any further, but I'll just say I think the disclosure we made about being approached is the only disclosure we'll make until we comment further and whether or not with Certares or anybody else who made the offer is really beyond what we're going to reveal today and what we're obligated, we think, under the 13D disclosure rules.

我想我說過我不會進一步發表評論，但我只想說，我認為我們所披露的有關被接觸的信息是我們在進一步發表評論之前所做的唯一披露，無論是否與 Certares 或提出要約的任何其他人確實超出了我們今天要披露的內容，也超出了我們認為根據13D 披露規則所承擔的義務。

Okay. And if I may just ask a follow-up then. With the depressed stock being callable from next month, 6 weeks away, do you have any intention to call it?

好的。那我可以問一下後續狀況嗎？低迷的股票從下個月開始，也就是六週後就可以贖回了，你有沒有打算贖回它？

I think I'd refer to Ben's comments earlier. We're evaluating all these things. We're looking at all our alternatives. But until and such time as we make that move, we are not going to -- if we do, we would not -- we're not going to disclose our intention.

我想我應該早點參考本的評論。我們正在評估所有這些事情。我們正在考慮所有的替代方案。但在我們採取這項行動之前，我們不會——如果我們這樣做，我們也不會——我們不會透露我們的意圖。

All right. Appreciate that.

好的。感謝。

Sorry to be unsatisfying, but at least I know you tried.

很抱歉讓您不滿意，但至少我知道您嘗試過。

Our last question will come from the line of Barton Crockett with Rosenblatt Securities.

我們的最後一個問題將來自羅森布拉特證券公司的巴頓·克羅克特（Barton Crockett）。

So I took the opportunity to come back. Greg, just -- hopefully, this qualifies as big picture just for you. Just curious, the statement that fixed wireless is competitive now but won't be over the longer term. Can you -- do you have any kind of sense in your mind of how long it is before fixed wireless ceases to become competitive and becomes more kind of a source of win back for cable. I say that just thinking that there's a lot of consumers out there that are feeling pretty stretched and I think would be pretty sticky for a low-price service, but there's technical constraints. So what do you think is the timing here?

於是我就趁機回來了。格雷格，希望這對你來說是一個大局。只是好奇，固定無線現在具有競爭力但從長遠來看不會有競爭力的說法。您是否知道，固定無線網路還需要多長時間才能不再具有競爭力，並成為有線電視的贏回來源？我這麼說只是因為有很多消費者感到捉襟見肘，而且我認為低價服務會很粘，但存在技術限制。那您認為現在的時機是什麼？

Barton, I think I would -- the way you initially stated the premise that fixed wireless isn't competitive, I would say that differently. I would say that there are certainly customers for home fixed wireless is the answer they believe they need. I think that customer set will be reduced over time as broadband demands grow and potentially as FWA becomes less interesting as that network has more users and performance is less attractive or less performant.

巴頓，我想我會——就像你最初提出固定無線沒有競爭力的前提一樣，我會用不同的方式來表達。我想說，肯定有一些客戶認為家庭固定無線是他們需要的答案。我認為，隨著寬頻需求的成長，隨著時間的推移，隨著 FWA 變得不那麼有趣，客戶群將會減少，因為該網路擁有更多用戶，並且效能吸引力較差或效能較差。

So I'm not saying it's a binary thing. I'm thinking it's a relative thing. It's the relative attractiveness and the relative need for increased bandwidth, relative attractiveness of that network and the relative needs among consumers for more bandwidth. I think those shift in our favor over time.

所以我並不是說這是一個二元的東西。我認為這是一個相對的事情。它是相對吸引力和增加頻寬的相對需求、網路的相對吸引力以及消費者對更多頻寬的相對需求。我認為隨著時間的推移，這些都會對我們有利。

And then the question of when capacity is constrained, I mean, T-Mobile has been pretty clear about what -- how many they're willing to go out with, and you can judge how quickly it is. Verizon has been less clear. I would argue, Verizon has been less clear about a lot of their plans in this space. But if you look at what reasonable expectations on what the run rate is, you could make your own judgment about when that starts to slow down. We've already seen it slow a little, and we've already seen T-Mo on the margin begin to increase prices for FWA, which seems to suggest that they're not that limitation, but they're recognizing that there's not an unlimited amount of capacity for FWA.

然後是容量何時受到限制的問題，我的意思是，T-Mobile 已經非常清楚他們願意推出多少，你可以判斷它的速度有多快。 Verizon 的情況不太清楚。我認為，Verizon 對於他們在這個領域的許多計劃不太清楚。但是，如果您查看對運行速度的合理預期，您可以對運行速度何時開始放緩做出自己的判斷。我們已經看到它有點慢了，而且我們已經看到 T-Mo 開始提高 FWA 的價格，這似乎表明他們並沒有那麼限制，但他們認識到沒有一個FWA 的容量不受限制。

I believe that is our last question today. Thank you all for joining. Thank you all for your interest in Liberty Broadband and Liberty TripAdvisor. And with that, operator, we will end today's call.

我相信這是我們今天的最後一個問題。感謝大家的加入。感謝大家對 Liberty Broadband 和 Liberty TripAdvisor 的關注。接線員，我們今天的通話就到此結束。

Thank you. This does conclude today's teleconference. We appreciate your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Enjoy the rest of your day.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與。此時您可以斷開線路。享受你一天剩下的時間。