Liberty Broadband Corp (LBRDA) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Liberty Broadband 2022 Year-end Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference will be recorded February 17.

您好，歡迎來到 Liberty Broadband 2022 年終收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）提醒一下，本次會議將於 2 月 17 日錄製。

I would now like to turn the call over to Shane Kleinstein, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead, Shane.

我現在想把電話轉給投資者關係副總裁 Shane Kleinstein。請繼續，謝恩。

Good morning. Before we begin, we'd like to remind everyone this call includes certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Actual events or results could differ materially due to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those mentioned in the most recent Form 10-K filed by Liberty Broadband and Liberty TripAdvisor with the SEC. These forward-looking statements speak only as of the date of this call, and Liberty Broadband and Liberty TripAdvisor expressly disclaim any obligation or undertaking to disseminate any updates or revisions to any forward-looking statements attained herein to reflect any change in Liberty Broadband or Liberty TripAdvisors expectations with regard thereto or any change in events, conditions or circumstances on which any such statement is based.

早上好。在我們開始之前，我們想提醒大家，本次電話會議包含 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的某些前瞻性陳述。實際事件或結果可能因許多風險和不確定性而存在重大差異，包括那些在最近由 Liberty Broadband 和 Liberty TripAdvisor 向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-K 表格中提到。這些前瞻性陳述僅在本次電話會議召開之日有效，Liberty Broadband 和 Liberty TripAdvisor 明確否認有任何義務或承諾傳播對此處獲得的任何前瞻性陳述的任何更新或修訂，以反映 Liberty Broadband 或 Liberty 的任何變化TripAdvisors 對此的期望或任何此類聲明所依據的事件、條件或情況的任何變化。

On today's call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures for Liberty Broadband, including adjusted OIBDA. Information regarding the comparable GAAP metrics, along with required definitions and reconciliations including preliminary notes Schedule 1 and 2 at the end of the earnings press release issued today as well as earnings releases for prior periods, which are available on Liberty Broadband's website.

在今天的電話會議上，我們將討論 Liberty Broadband 的某些非 GAAP 財務措施，包括調整後的 OIBDA。有關可比較的 GAAP 指標的信息，以及所需的定義和調節，包括今天發布的收益新聞稿末尾的附表 1 和 2 的初步說明，以及前期收益發布，這些信息可在 Liberty Broadband 的網站上獲取。

I'll just introduce Greg Maffei, Liberty's President and CEO.

我將介紹 Liberty 的總裁兼首席執行官 Greg Maffei。

Good morning. Thank you, Shane. Today speaking on the call, we will have Liberty Broadband's Chief Accounting Officer and Principal Financial Officer, Brian Wendling; Ron Duncan, CEO of GCI; and Pete Pounds, CFO of GCI will also be available to answer questions. Also during Q&A, we will answer questions -- we will be available to answer questions related to Liberty TripAdvisor.

早上好。謝謝你，謝恩。今天在電話會議上發言的有 Liberty Broadband 的首席會計官兼首席財務官 Brian Wendling； GCI 首席執行官羅恩·鄧肯 (Ron Duncan)； GCI 的首席財務官 Pete Pounds 也將回答問題。同樣在問答期間，我們將回答問題——我們將可以回答與 Liberty TripAdvisor 相關的問題。

Let me start with Liberty Broadband. As you mentioned in the last call in September, we began retaining approximately 50% of the cash flow from the Charter sales to address our near-term liabilities. We have approximately $1.5 billion related to the Charter exchangeables that is due by October based on current prices. Therefore, from about the first of November to the end of January, we repurchased -- we received $291 million of proceeds from Charter sales and spent only $177 million on Liberty Broadband repurchases. The look-through price to Charter on those repurchases was about $272 versus the current charter of just under [$400] a share. There's a slight mismatch on the timing of the proceeds when they come and when we spend them, and that may account for that being slightly more than 50%.

讓我從 Liberty Broadband 開始。正如您在 9 月的最後一次電話會議中提到的那樣，我們開始保留約 50% 的包機銷售現金流，以解決我們的近期負債。根據當前價格，我們有大約 15 億美元與將於 10 月到期的 Charter 可交換資產相關。因此，從大約 11 月 1 日到 1 月底，我們進行了回購——我們從 Charter 銷售中獲得了 2.91 億美元的收益，而在 Liberty Broadband 的回購上僅花費了 1.77 億美元。這些回購對 Charter 的透視價格約為 272 美元，而目前的 charter 每股價格略低於 [400 美元]。收益的到來時間和我們花費它們的時間略有不匹配，這可能是略高於 50% 的原因。

Going forward, we do plan to continue to apply 50% of proceeds from the Charter share sales towards Liberty Broadband purchases, we do also expect total proceeds from Charter to be lowered this year in 2023. Similar to last year, we are under the 26% fully-load ownership cap early in the year, driven by Charter's annual compensation grants. But as the year goes forward, we do expect lighter buybacks at Charter compared to 2022 due to the investments they are making at the company, and previously heard from them, and I will discuss more in a bit. We will revisit capital allocation later in the year after our debt maturities are addressed.

展望未來，我們確實計劃繼續將 Charter 股票銷售收益的 50% 用於購買 Liberty Broadband，我們也確實預計 Charter 的總收益將在 2023 年降低。與去年類似，我們處於 26在 Charter 的年度補償撥款的推動下，年初的滿載所有權上限百分比。但隨著時間的推移，我們確實預計 Charter 的回購會比 2022 年減少，因為他們在公司進行了投資，並且之前聽過他們的消息，我將在稍後討論更多。我們將在今年晚些時候解決債務到期問題後重新審視資本配置。

So let's look at Charter. We had lower broadband unit growth in 2022. Some of this is a COVID pull forward, no doubt. Some of it was lower move environment with fewer sales opportunities for a share taker like ourselves, fewer chances to get at the customer and increased competition from new entrants, including fixed wireless. Though we would note that, in many cases, fixed wireless has been a market expander not a share taker, and we do not view them over the long term as a competitor though we will surely feel them in the short term.

那麼讓我們看看憲章。我們在 2022 年的寬帶單位增長較低。毫無疑問，其中一些是 COVID 的推動。其中一些是較低的移動環境，像我們這樣的股票接受者的銷售機會較少，接觸客戶的機會較少，以及來自新進入者（包括固定無線）的競爭加劇。儘管我們會注意到，在許多情況下，固定無線一直是市場擴張者而不是份額接受者，我們不會將它們視為長期競爭對手，儘管我們肯定會在短期內感受到它們。

Nonetheless, Charter posted strong operating results. In the fourth quarter, 92,000 residential broadband units were added, and we had some sequential improvement over the prior 2 quarters. Spectrum One, our new pricing product is helping drive momentum in mobile, and we recorded a record 615,000 mobile net adds in the fourth quarter. It has been a huge success compared to other mobile operators. And I would note, cable share of mobile net adds in the third quarter -- in the fourth quarter, rather, was 35% and Charters was 22% of all global net adds. So Charter was nearly 1/4 of all of the mobile net adds, which is a stunning number.

儘管如此，Charter 公佈了強勁的經營業績。第四季度新增住宅寬帶用戶9.2萬戶，較前兩個季度有所改善。我們的新定價產品 Spectrum One 正在幫助推動移動領域的發展勢頭，我們在第四季度錄得創紀錄的 615,000 移動淨增加。與其他移動運營商相比，它取得了巨大的成功。我要指出的是，有線電視在第三季度的移動網絡增加份額——第四季度是 35%，而 Charters 佔全球所有網絡增加的 22%。因此，Charter 幾乎佔所有移動網絡新增用戶的 1/4，這是一個驚人的數字。

We believe this demonstrates the value of cost savings to customers through bundling and seamless connectivity. As Chris Winfrey outlined in December, Charter is undertaking a series of initiatives to accelerate growth and attack large connectivity opportunities. That includes accelerating our network evolution plan through high split, differentiated converged product offerings like Spectrum one and a rural build, which we think has attractive returns with penetration way above our expectations so far in initial builds, and we are targeting mid- to high-teens IRRs.

我們相信，這證明了通過捆綁和無縫連接為客戶節省成本的價值。正如克里斯·溫弗瑞 (Chris Winfrey) 在 12 月概述的那樣，Charter 正在採取一系列舉措來加速增長並抓住巨大的連接機會。這包括通過 Spectrum one 和農村建設等高拆分、差異化融合產品加速我們的網絡演進計劃，我們認為這些產品具有誘人的回報，其滲透率遠高於我們在初始建設中的預期，我們的目標是中高端青少年內部收益率。

By 2026, we do expect CapEx as a percent of revenue, excluding line extensions to be below 22% and declined further, but in the interim, these investments will increase that CapEx as a percent of revenue. Liberty here have had a long positive relationship working with Chris Winfrey and are excited by his strategy, that he's articulated both to the board and the marketplace even with the investments in the business, the increase in the stock price, Charter and Liberty Broadband both offer attractive free cash flow yield in a growth vehicle.

到 2026 年，我們確實預計資本支出佔收入的百分比（不包括產品線擴展）將低於 22% 並進一步下降，但在此期間，這些投資將增加資本支出佔收入的百分比。 Liberty 與克里斯·溫弗瑞 (Chris Winfrey) 建立了長期積極的合作關係，並對他的戰略感到興奮，即使在業務投資、股價上漲、Charter 和 Liberty Broadband 都提供時，他也向董事會和市場表達了自己的看法增長工具中有吸引力的自由現金流收益率。

I would note it's even more compelling relative value of Liberty Broadband. The Charter free cash flow yield is about 9.1% -- 9.1% despite their investments, and the Liberty Broadband look through '22 free cash flow yield was 12.9%.

我會注意到 Liberty Broadband 的相對價值更具吸引力。儘管有投資，Charter 的自由現金流收益率約為 9.1%——9.1%，而 Liberty Broadband 的 22 年自由現金流收益率為 12.9%。

Let me turn now to TripAdvisor. The travel recovery continued in the fourth quarter, exceeding management's expectations. Full year TRIP revenue was 96% of the 2019 number and the fourth quarter actually reached 106% of the 2019 number. The [hotel meta] recovery accelerated throughout the year. In the U.S. in 2022, hotel meta reached parity with 2019 with strength in both auction pricing and volumes, and we are driving more revenue from paid traffic and less from free revenue, which is obviously hitting our margins to a degree. I'm going to talk more about that in a second. Viator was up 115% in the fourth quarter over the prior year that would reduce losses despite the increased marketing spend. We continue to see benefits in improved conversion and repeat customers, and we are very confident in the growth of this experiences segment. Management is focused on the long-term strategic opportunities and using product enhancements to drive growth.

現在讓我談談 TripAdvisor。差旅復甦在第四季度繼續，超出了管理層的預期。全年 TRIP 收入為 2019 年的 96%，第四季度實際達到 2019 年的 106%。 [酒店元] 全年復蘇加速。在美國，2022 年酒店元數據與 2019 年持平，拍賣價格和數量均表現強勁，我們正在推動更多來自付費流量的收入，而不是來自免費收入的收入減少，這顯然在一定程度上影響了我們的利潤率。稍後我將詳細討論這一點。 Viator 在第四季度比去年同期增長了 115%，儘管營銷支出增加了，這將減少虧損。我們繼續看到提高轉化率和回頭客的好處，我們對這一體驗領域的增長充滿信心。管理層專注於長期戰略機遇，並利用產品改進來推動增長。

I would note they expect in 2022 to maintain flat margins through disciplined cost management and allocation despite increased investment in our growth segments, including experiences.

我要指出的是，他們預計到 2022 年將通過嚴格的成本管理和分配來保持穩定的利潤率，儘管我們增加了對包括經驗在內的增長領域的投資。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Brian to discuss the financials.

有了這個，我會把它交給布賴恩來討論財務問題。

Thank you, Greg, and good morning, everybody. At quarter end, Liberty Broadband had consolidated cash and cash equivalents of $375 million, which includes $85 million of cash directly at GCI. The value of our Charter investment based on our shares held as of February 1 and Charter share price at yesterday's close was $18.9 billion.

謝謝你，格雷格，大家早上好。截至季度末，Liberty Broadband 的合併現金和現金等價物為 3.75 億美元，其中包括直接在 GCI 的 8500 萬美元現金。根據我們截至 2 月 1 日持有的股份和昨日收盤時的 Charter 股價，我們的 Charter 投資價值為 189 億美元。

At quarter end, Liberty Broadband had a total principal amount of debt of $3.9 billion. Note that this excludes the indemnification obligation and preferred stock.

截至季度末，Liberty Broadband 的債務本金總額為 39 億美元。請注意，這不包括賠償義務和優先股。

I'll reiterate Greg's commentary that we expect reduced proceeds from Charter share sales to Charter in the early part of 2023. However, for the shares we do sell, we are updating our annual tax rate guidance for '23 to 7% to 13% compared to our previous guidance of 7% to 9%. The high end of the updated range assumes the DRD, dividend received deduction does not apply to Charter share sales for the book minimum tax under the Inflation Reduction Act.

我將重申 Greg 的評論，即我們預計在 2023 年初將 Charter 股票出售給 Charter 的收益減少。但是，對於我們出售的股票，我們正在更新我們的年度稅率指導，即 23 年至 7% 至 13%與我們之前 7% 至 9% 的指導相比。更新範圍的高端假設 DRD，收到的股息扣除不適用於《通貨膨脹減少法》下賬面最低稅的特許股份銷售。

We are accruing for a higher tax rate of '23, while additional IRA guidance from the IRS and the Treasury is pending. So we believe clarification is possible this year. I'd note that any book minimum tax paid for '23 will carry forward to offset regular income tax in future years to the extent regular income tax exceeds the VMC, making this more of a timing impact for us. We are not providing specific tax guidance beyond '23 as there are many variables outside our control, including cadence and pricing and Charter share repurchases and clarification around certain aspects of the Inflation Reduction Act.

我們正在累積 23 年更高的稅率，而 IRS 和財政部的額外 IRA 指南正在等待中。因此，我們認為今年有可能做出澄清。我會注意到，為 23 年支付的任何最低賬面稅都將結轉以抵消未來幾年的常規所得稅，只要常規所得稅超過 VMC，這對我們來說更具時間影響。我們不提供 23 年後的具體稅收指導，因為有許多我們無法控制的變量，包括節奏和定價以及 Charter 股份回購以及對《降低通貨膨脹法》某些方面的澄清。

Looking at GCI. 2022 is a great year for the company with record adjusted OIBDA despite headwinds from the roaming contract that impacted year-over-year comparisons through the third quarter. GCI generated solid free cash flow and distributed $110 million of dividends for Liberty Broadband during the year. GCI also paid an additional $40 million in dividends to Liberty Broadband year-to-date so far in '23, and we anticipate additional dividends will be paid this year.

看著 GCI。 2022 年對公司來說是偉大的一年，調整後的 OIBDA 創紀錄，儘管漫遊合同的不利因素影響了第三季度的同比比較。年內，GCI 產生了可觀的自由現金流，並為 Liberty Broadband 分配了 1.1 億美元的股息。 23 年迄今為止，GCI 還向 Liberty Broadband 額外支付了 4000 萬美元的股息，我們預計今年將支付額外的股息。

For the full year, revenue was flat and adjusted OIBDA grew 1% to $358 million, the company's highest ever adjusted OIBDA, driven primarily by data demand, which drove both subscriber and ARPU growth. In the fourth quarter, revenue was up 2%, and adjusted OIBDA was up 14%. This was also driven by strong data growth as well as lapping the impact of the roaming agreement that we entered into in 2021, which is positive long term that created negative comparisons from Q4 '21 through the third quarter of this year.

全年收入持平，調整後的 OIBDA 增長 1% 至 3.58 億美元，這是該公司有史以來最高的調整後 OIBDA，主要受數據需求的推動，這推動了用戶和 ARPU 的增長。第四季度，收入增長 2%，調整後的 OIBDA 增長 14%。這也是由強勁的數據增長以及我們在 2021 年簽訂的漫遊協議的影響所推動的，這是長期積極的，從 21 年第四季度到今年第三季度形成了負面比較。

Operationally, GCI added 5,300 consumer cable modem subscribers and 5,900 consumer wireless customers in 2022. The network quality continues to improve with growth in the 5G wireless network, increased satellite capacity and the completion of the fiber build to Dutch Harbor. The strength of the operating results led to continued deleverage. For the full year, GCI's net debt declined $57 million. Leverage as defined in the credit agreement was 2.8x at year-end and GCI has $397 million undrawn capacity on its revolver.

在運營方面，GCI 在 2022 年增加了 5,300 個消費者電纜調製解調器用戶和 5,900 個消費者無線用戶。隨著 5G 無線網絡的增長、衛星容量的增加以及到荷蘭港的光纖建設的完成，網絡質量不斷提高。強勁的經營業績導致持續去槓桿化。全年，GCI 的淨債務減少了 5700 萬美元。信貸協議中定義的槓桿率在年底為 2.8 倍，GCI 的循環利用能力為 3.97 億美元。

In 2022, GCI spent $156 million on net capital expenditures. This is net proceeds received from federal and state grant funding. CapEx spend was related primarily to improvements to the wireless and hybrid fiber coax networks and the Dutch Harbor fiber project.

2022 年，GCI 的淨資本支出為 1.56 億美元。這是從聯邦和州撥款資金中獲得的淨收益。資本支出主要與改進無線和混合光纖同軸電纜網絡以及荷蘭港光纖項目有關。

Net CapEx for '23, we expect to be approximately $185 million, which should be elevated due to the additional high-returning investments in middle and last mile connectivity with continued network expansion in rural Alaska, including the Bethel and AU-Aleutians fiber projects. We're taking a proactive approach in rural connectivity projects which we view as critical to securing the necessary government funding.

23 年的淨資本支出，我們預計約為 1.85 億美元，由於在阿拉斯加農村地區（包括伯特利和 AU-Aleutians 光纖項目）持續擴展網絡，對中間和最後一英里連接的額外高回報投資，這一數字應該會增加。我們在農村互聯互通項目中採取積極主動的方式，我們認為這些項目對於獲得必要的政府資金至關重要。

And with that, I'll turn the call back over to Greg.

有了這個，我會把電話轉回給格雷格。

Thank you, Brian. To the listening audience, we appreciate your continued interest in Liberty Broadband and Liberty TripAdvisor. And with that, operator, I'd like to open the line for questions.

謝謝你，布萊恩。對於聽眾，我們感謝您對 Liberty Broadband 和 Liberty TripAdvisor 的持續關注。有了這個，接線員，我想打開問題熱線。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Our first question today is coming from James Ratcliffe from Evercore ISI.

我們今天的第一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 James Ratcliffe。

Greg, 2, if I could. First of all, regarding the selling Charter selling the Charter buyback, can you -- you're creating cash at the moment, but does settling the Delaware litigation give you any additional flexibility around whether that 26.5% or 26% cap is -- remains in place over time? And would you be open to raising it if Charter board works, too? And secondly, you mentioned the exchangeables that are putable in October. Can you talk about the factors we should consider considering in terms of how to refi those or pay them down, assuming that they are in fact put?

格雷格，2 歲，如果可以的話。首先，關於出售 Charter 出售 Charter 回購，你能否 - 你目前正在創造現金，但解決特拉華州訴訟是否會給你任何額外的靈活性，無論是 26.5% 還是 26% 的上限 - 仍然存在隨著時間的推移到位？如果 Charter board 也有效，您會願意提出嗎？其次，您提到了 10 月份可回售的可交換資產。您能否談談我們應該考慮的因素，假設它們實際上已被放置，我們應該考慮如何重新調整或支付它們？

Thanks, James. I'll handle the first one, and I'll hand it to our Treasurer, Ben Oren, to give you some color on the second. So on the first, I think you're right. You can note that the litigation settlement does open up more opportunities for us to have fruitful discussions with Charter, and we've had some preliminary ideas about that. We would be open to raising the cap. And we do think that many shareholders, other than Liberty would view it as positive because given the increased investments in -- by Charter in 2023, many productive high-returning assets, nonetheless, they are investing more in the business and less in buybacks. The buyback will go down quite a bit, on a relative basis, and we would be able to ameliorate that or less than that by taking our 26% off the table, the 26% that goes to us. So I do think that is something that could get done, and we are optimistic it might get done in 2023, something we'd like to do. Ben?

謝謝，詹姆斯。我會處理第一個問題，然後將它交給我們的財務主管 Ben Oren，讓您了解第二個問題。所以首先，我認為你是對的。你可以注意到，訴訟和解確實為我們提供了更多機會與 Charter 進行富有成果的討論，我們對此有了一些初步的想法。我們願意提高上限。而且我們確實認為，除了 Liberty 之外，許多股東會認為這是積極的，因為考慮到 Charter 在 2023 年增加的投資，許多生產性高回報資產，儘管如此，他們正在更多地投資於業務，而不是回購。相對而言，回購會下降很多，我們可以通過減少我們的 26%，即屬於我們的 26%，來改善或改善這一點。所以我確實認為這是可以完成的事情，我們樂觀地認為它可能會在 2023 年完成，這是我們想做的事情。本？

Yes. With respect to the Charter exchangeables right, we are accruing a meaningful amount of cash. I think what we would say at this point is that we have the option to address those with some combination of cash on hand accessing the margin loan that we have related to Charter shares and potentially a new exchangeable with probably a slight preference between margin loan and a new Charter exchangeable, we'd probably prefer Charter exchangeable to maintain optimal liquidity.

是的。關於 Charter 可交換權，我們正在積累大量現金。我想我們現在要說的是，我們可以選擇解決那些手頭現金組合的問題，這些現金可以使用我們與 Charter 股票相關的保證金貸款，以及可能在保證金貸款和一個新的 Charter exchangeable，我們可能更喜歡 Charter exchangeable 以保持最佳流動性。

Next question is coming from Doug Mitchelson from Credit Suisse.

下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Doug Mitchelson。

I just was curious -- not quite sure the right way to ask this, but Look, I think -- the Street is looking for 2% EBITDA growth this year for Charter and Charters had high single-digit EBITDA growth with levered equity returns, and that was hard to beat. So I was just curious your outlook for Charter as an investment at this point, it's interesting that they're investing more versus buying back stock as we look through buyback for you, which is relatively riskless versus mid- to high returns on investing in CapEx. It's an interesting dynamic from a Liberty Broadband perspective versus a long-term Charter shareholders. So I guess -- my question for you is, ultimately, are you as excited about Charter as an investment as you were a few years ago? And what's the algorithm for Liberty Broadband in terms of returns from Charter looking forward?

我只是很好奇——不太確定問這個問題的正確方式，但看，我認為——華爾街正在為 Charter 尋找 2% 的 EBITDA 增長，而 Charters 的 EBITDA 增長高達個位數，並帶有槓桿股票回報，這很難被擊敗。所以我很好奇你目前對 Charter 作為投資的前景，有趣的是，當我們為你考慮回購時，他們投資更多而不是回購股票，相對於投資資本支出的中高回報而言，這是相對無風險的.從 Liberty Broadband 的角度來看，與長期的 Charter 股東相比，這是一個有趣的動態。所以我想 - 我的問題是，最終，您是否像幾年前一樣對 Charter 作為一項投資感到興奮？就 Charter 的預期回報而言，Liberty Broadband 的算法是什麼？

Thank you, Doug. A couple of points, I think. First, look, when we were doing all those 2 million upgrades on the existing -- additions on the existing network, with relatively little capital. Yes, that's a damn attractive business, okay? We'll stipulate. We'll all agree. The incremental capital that we have to spend is still a very attractive business and something we endorsed as Liberty at the board level, and we're enthused about what they're doing. We think the investments they're making on high split really do give us a lot of runway on the existing network and the rural build-outs are quite attractive on a return basis.

謝謝你，道格。我認為有幾點。首先，看一下，當我們在現有網絡上進行所有 200 萬次升級時 - 在現有網絡上增加，資金相對較少。是的，這是一個非常有吸引力的行業，好嗎？我們會規定。我們都會同意。我們必須花費的增量資本仍然是一項非常有吸引力的業務，我們在董事會層面將其視為 Liberty，我們對他們正在做的事情充滿熱情。我們認為他們在 high split 上所做的投資確實為我們提供了現有網絡的大量跑道，並且農村建設在回報基礎上非常有吸引力。

And more attractive these set would be the set of broadband investments made by state and local governments as well as the federal government than the RDOF bidding process, which, in many cases, led people to bid up higher and then not actually fulfill, but the whole market got pushed up, I think, these broadband initiatives are going to be very attractive IRRs. So we're enthused about them.

比 RDOF 招標過程更具吸引力的是州和地方政府以及聯邦政府進行的一組寬帶投資，在許多情況下，RDOF 招標過程導致人們出價更高，但實際上並沒有實現，但整個市場都被推高了，我認為，這些寬帶計劃將成為非常有吸引力的內部收益率。所以我們對他們充滿熱情。

Holding out comparing that to the buyback over the long term is interesting, but the buyback opportunity probably isn't going to go away. And yes, we are making these investments but we think they're worthwhile for the long haul, and we are attractive and on an offensive and defensive basis for Charter. So I remain -- Liberty remains quite enthused about Charter's prospects, and the fact that we're buying back and have continued to buy back all the way through is some indication of that, though we do have these issues around attacking our own exchangeable, which is effectively deciding how much of we're going to take on a current basis or the future basis given we're going to issue some kind of other likely equity [loan secured].

堅持將其與長期回購進行比較很有趣，但回購機會可能不會消失。是的，我們正在進行這些投資，但我們認為它們從長遠來看是值得的，而且我們對 Charter 具有吸引力，並且在進攻和防守的基礎上。所以我仍然 - Liberty 仍然對 Charter 的前景充滿熱情，我們正在回購併且一直在繼續回購的事實表明了這一點，儘管我們在攻擊我們自己的可交換性方面確實存在這些問題，這實際上決定了我們將在當前基礎上或未來基礎上承擔多少，因為我們將發行某種其他可能的股權 [貸款擔保]。

Do you see Charter returning to mid-single-digit or high single-digit EBITDA growth in the not too distant future?

您是否認為 Charter 在不久的將來會恢復到中個位數或高個位數的 EBITDA 增長？

Yes.

是的。

Our next question today is coming from Ben Swinburne from Morgan Stanley.

我們今天的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Ben Swinburne。

I guess following up a little bit on Doug's question around Charter. You guys are obviously favorable around financial leverage. That's obviously been John's approach for many years. Rates are higher than they were, growth is slower, capital intensity is up. Is there a -- I'm sure there's some scenario, but is there a scenario you see an optimal leverage level for Charter lower today than where they're running it? Do you think that actually it should be higher given the stock has come off quite a bit over the last 12 months? And then I was -- kind of a somewhat unrelated topic, although tied to charter. I was just curious if you guys are thinking about any implications from Gigi Sohn on becoming the FCC chairperson, which is something that seemingly may happen in short order. Obviously, she's got a lot of strong views on the broadband market in cable. But I'd be curious if you have any perspective on things you're concerned about or watching on that front?

我想跟進一下 Doug 關於 Charter 的問題。你們顯然對財務槓桿有利。這顯然是約翰多年來的做法。利率高於以往，增長放緩，資本密集度上升。有沒有 - 我確定有一些情況，但是有沒有一種情況你看到今天 Charter 的最佳槓桿水平低於他們運行它的地方？鑑於該股在過去 12 個月中大幅下跌，您認為實際上它應該更高嗎？然後我 - 有點不相關的話題，雖然與章程有關。我只是想知道你們是否在考慮 Gigi Sohn 對成為 FCC 主席的任何影響，這似乎可能會在短期內發生。顯然，她對有線電視寬帶市場有很多強烈的看法。但我很好奇你是否對你關心或關注的事情有任何看法？

Thanks, Ben. Look, on the leverage front, I think Charter can handle -- it might be more leverage, but the public markets today, equity markets, in particular, are not enthused about more leverage, so there's no reason to push that up, we're not in an environment where people are buying that. You're right to note about increased cost. But if you look at the stack of debt that Charter has, it's really only very little, which is floating or getting refinanced in any period. So the net increase in our actual borrowing cost is relatively de minimis, given how much is existing versus how much is getting rolled or floating. .

謝謝，本。看，在槓桿方面，我認為 Charter 可以處理 - 它可能會增加槓桿，但今天的公開市場，特別是股票市場，並不熱衷於增加槓桿，所以沒有理由提高它，我們'我們不在人們購買的環境中。您注意到成本增加是對的。但如果你看看 Charter 的債務堆，它真的很少，在任何時期都在浮動或再融資。所以我們實際借貸成本的淨增加是相對微不足道的，考慮到有多少是現有的，有多少是滾動或浮動的。 .

I think you could make a case for higher, as I said, I think it's harder to make a case for lower other than the capital markets are fearful. I don't think -- I think these businesses are very stable. We have a very sophisticated finance program, and I'm not worried about the leverage. And you're right to note the increased -- the environment with increased costs and increased investment, but I would note the stock is half of what it was. So you work that all out, it's still pretty attractive in my view.

我認為你可以提出更高的理由，正如我所說，我認為除了資本市場令人恐懼之外，更難提出更低的理由。我不認為——我認為這些業務非常穩定。我們有一個非常複雜的財務計劃，我不擔心槓桿作用。你注意到增加是正確的——成本增加和投資增加的環境，但我會注意到庫存是原來的一半。所以你全力以赴，在我看來它仍然很有吸引力。

And on the second point about regulatory, I mean, that has been a existing risk growth ever present risk in the cable business since the early '90s, right, but maybe earlier. John, here, he could tell me earlier, but I would say, certainly, from the time I've spent around it, really, (inaudible) cable -- regulatory has always been a risk. We went through a relatively activist regulatory environment during the Obama administration with Title II regulation that we navigated successfully. I think it's unlikely that we would see something more aggressive than that, but that is always one of the things that we are constantly vigilant about -- and I do think there are many voices in Washington, which are less aggressive and more extending the free market attractiveness and what a great job that broadband industry had done through COVID and building out now. So while it's certainly a risk. I don't look at it as an increased risk that we've ever seen over a various of times.

關於監管的第二點，我的意思是，自 90 年代初以來，這一直是有線電視業務中存在的風險增長，對，但可能更早。約翰，在這裡，他可以早點告訴我，但我肯定會說，從我花在它周圍的時間來看，真的，（聽不清）電纜——監管一直是一個風險。在奧巴馬政府期間，我們經歷了一個相對激進的監管環境，我們成功應對了 Title II 監管。我認為我們不太可能看到比這更具侵略性的事情，但這始終是我們一直保持警惕的事情之一——我確實認為華盛頓有很多聲音，這些聲音不那麼激進，而更多地擴大自由市場吸引力以及寬帶行業通過 COVID 和現在的建設所做的出色工作。所以雖然這肯定是一個風險。我不認為這是我們在不同時期見過的增加的風險。

Yes. And certainly, the CapEx investments in rural should help and fixed wireless still might be an actual silver lining at least in this context?

是的。當然，在農村的資本支出投資應該有所幫助，至少在這種情況下，固定無線仍然可能是一線希望？

I think that -- those are both good comments, Ben.

我認為 - 這些都是很好的評論，Ben。

Next question is coming from Barton Crockett from Rosenblatt Securities.

下一個問題來自 Rosenblatt Securities 的 Barton Crockett。

Okay. Yes, I'd like to ask 2 questions, if I could. One is just on DCI I mean we are looking at them. They seem to have some volatility in wireless subs after the year. I think it was down this quarter. Can you just explain what's going on with the wireless subscriber numbers there?

好的。是的，如果可以的話，我想問兩個問題。一個就在 DCI 上，我的意思是我們正在研究它們。年後，他們的無線用戶數量似乎有所波動。我認為這個季度有所下降。你能解釋一下那裡的無線用戶號碼是怎麼回事嗎？

Well, we could take a shot, but I'll first offer it up to our Alaskan counterparts. Ron, do you want to answer that or Pete?

好吧，我們可以試一試，但我會先把它提供給我們的阿拉斯加同行。羅恩，你想回答這個問題還是皮特？

I think what you're seeing the -- on postpaid wireless subs, we've been up for 11 consecutive quarters. There's volatility in the prepaid business, both due to seasonality. There's a very strong surge in the summer and the fall months with prepaid sales to the fishing industry in a number of our communities. And then those fall off. And then this year, there was an overall decrease in prepaid due to some problems we're having with the platform. We're working on improving the platform right now to make it more competitive, which will stabilize that. But the core measure of our wireless success is really on the postpaid side, and that has been uniformly up for the last almost 3 years, and we believe continue -- will continue to grow. We've got far and away the best 5G network, the best network in Alaska. If you look at speed test comparisons, we always rank #1 often by a factor of 2 or 3, and that plus the bundling with the high-speed data products is helping the postpaid sales.

我想你所看到的——在後付費無線訂閱方面，我們已經連續 11 個季度上漲。由於季節性，預付費業務存在波動。夏季和秋季幾個月，我們許多社區的漁業預付銷售量激增。然後那些掉下來。然後今年，由於我們在平台上遇到的一些問題，預付費整體有所下降。我們現在正在努力改進平台，使其更具競爭力，這將穩定這一點。但我們無線成功的核心衡量標準實際上是在後付費方面，並且在過去近 3 年裡一直在上升，我們相信繼續 - 將繼續增長。我們擁有最好的 5G 網絡，阿拉斯加最好的網絡。如果您查看速度測試比較，我們總是以 2 或 3 的係數排名第一，加上與高速數據產品的捆綁有助於後付費銷售。

I mean do you guys -- can you break down the postpaid and prepaid mix?

我的意思是你們——你們能分解後付費和預付費組合嗎？

I don't know that we published those numbers. Do we, Pete?

我不知道我們公佈了這些數字。是嗎，皮特？

No.

不。

All right. Then switching to a different topic. Greg, just -- I'm noticing with some interest news flow around the big RSN complex at Diamond, which is a big source of programming cost for the cable industry and they've acknowledged that they've missed an interest payment and their speculation that they're moving towards some type of bankruptcy. And this presents, I think, an opportunity for this to be we thought we considered. And I was -- you guys -- and you have a very interesting positioning on both sides as a distributor of these networks through Charter and as owner of sports team through the Braves on a different equity call, but maybe you can comment here a little bit. I was just wondering if you could talk about what you think is likely to play out -- does this present an opportunity for a reduction in programming cost of the cable companies? Is there some risk to the revenues for sports teams like Braves?

好的。然後切換到不同的主題。格雷格，只是——我注意到一些關於 Diamond 大型 RSN 綜合設施的有趣新聞流傳，這是有線電視行業節目製作成本的一個重要來源，他們已經承認他們錯過了利息支付和他們的猜測他們正在走向某種類型的破產。我認為，這提供了一個我們認為我們考慮過的機會。我是——你們——你們在雙方都有一個非常有趣的定位，作為這些網絡的分銷商，通過 Charter 和作為運動隊的所有者，通過勇士隊在不同的股權電話會議上，但也許你可以在這裡發表一些評論少量。我只是想知道你是否可以談談你認為可能會發生什麼——這是否為有線電視公司降低節目成本提供了機會？像勇士隊這樣的運動隊的收入是否存在風險？

Well, Barton, good question. It's a multiheaded hydro there. I think the Diamond situation is quite complicated. And I think -- you may recall, we've been very closely aligned with MLB and looking at it in ways to try and make it the best situation for baseball as well as an attractive investment. But first, putting on the Charter hat, I think over time, you will see reductions in RSN costs. That's just you'll see less carriage and reductions. That's just inevitable. Charter. I don't think it's public, but Charter can continually renews that. And renews on attractive terms for Charter as best it can, but I suspect those costs will continue to go down on a relative basis.

好吧，巴頓，問得好。那裡是多頭水電。我認為鑽石的情況相當複雜。我認為——你可能還記得，我們一直與 MLB 保持密切聯繫，並以各種方式審視它，試圖讓它成為棒球的最佳狀態，同時也是一項有吸引力的投資。但首先，戴上憲章帽子，我認為隨著時間的推移，你會看到 RSN 成本的降低。那隻是你會看到更少的運輸和減少。那是不可避免的。憲章。我不認為它是公開的，但 Charter 可以不斷更新它。並儘可能以有吸引力的條款續訂 Charter，但我懷疑這些成本將繼續相對下降。

On the cases of the -- on the looking at it from the Braves side, they have more than a dozen RSNs. My understanding from everything we know is for a lot of logical reasons, including the fact that we have the largest broadband territory, a very engaged fan base and a relatively modest, certainly compared to the Dodgers, a relatively modest RSN fee or payments from Diamond, the Braves are a very attractive, we believe their most profitable RSN. So even in the event has been speculated that there is a filing by Diamond we think they are unlikely not to accept or will not reject as our contract in bankruptcy because it's a very attractive RSN for them.

在這種情況下——從勇士隊的角度來看，他們有十幾個 RSN。我對我們所知道的一切的理解是出於很多合乎邏輯的原因，包括我們擁有最大的寬帶領域、非常活躍的粉絲群以及相對適度的事實，當然與道奇隊相比，相對適度的 RSN 費用或來自 Diamond 的付款，勇士隊非常有吸引力，我們相信他們最賺錢的RSN。因此，即使有人推測 Diamond 提交了一份文件，我們認為他們不太可能不接受或不會拒絕我們的破產合同，因為這對他們來說是一個非常有吸引力的 RSN。

What will happen over the long term? I suspect there will be a slim-down version of something that is owned by a Diamond or a Diamond successor that takes their profitable RSNs, maybe renegotiate some things, but it probably doesn't take all of them would be my speculation.

從長遠來看會發生什麼？我懷疑會有一個由鑽石或鑽石繼任者擁有的東西的精簡版本，它採用了他們有利可圖的 RSN，也許會重新談判一些事情，但我的猜測可能不會採用所有這些。

I mean you mentioned MLB, you're being aligned. I mean do you think there's an opportunity for the leagues to take ownership of the RSNs or the rights and do something else maybe?

我的意思是你提到了美國職業棒球大聯盟，你正在對齊。我的意思是你認為聯盟有機會獲得 RSN 的所有權或權利並做其他事情嗎？

I think there is some opportunity for the leagues to look at, but we'll see, as I said, it's complicated. Speculating -- honestly, it's just speculation more than that, Barton.

我認為聯盟有一些機會可以考慮，但正如我所說，我們會看到，這很複雜。推測——老實說，這不僅僅是推測，Barton。

Our final question today is coming from Michael Rollins from Citi.

我們今天的最後一個問題來自花旗銀行的邁克爾羅林斯。

Greg, you mentioned earlier in the call that you would revisit capital allocation later in the year after you get through the upcoming maturity. Can you give us a preview of your consideration set for Liberty Broadband? And then secondly, just curious if you could share how meaningful ACP has been for both GCI and Charter, if there's some quantification of that and your expectation for how this program will evolve to potentially sustain the program and funding given the characteristics of it is around a defined amount at the moment.

格雷格，你在電話會議的早些時候提到，你將在即將到來的到期日之後的今年晚些時候重新審視資本配置。您能給我們預覽一下您對 Liberty Broadband 的考慮嗎？其次，只是想知道您是否可以分享 ACP 對 GCI 和 Charter 的意義，是否有一些量化以及您對該計劃將如何發展以潛在地維持該計劃和資金的期望，因為它的特點是目前確定的數量。

Yes. I think on the first point, once we get through our financing, we'll look at the -- what the Charter stock price is, what the Liberty Broadband stock price is, if there's the discount, what our long term, if there's more clarity around the taxes, all of those factors will weigh, but it's quite possible and probably more likely that we'll be back to buying using 100% of free cash flow. I mean, free cash flow here defined for Liberty Broadband is basically what we get repurchased from Charter, that we'll be using that to buy back stock. I think that's the most likely case.

是的。我想在第一點上，一旦我們完成融資，我們就會看看——Charter 的股價是多少，Liberty Broadband 的股價是多少，是否有折扣，我們的長期目標是什麼，如果有更多稅收的明確性，所有這些因素都會產生影響，但我們很有可能而且更有可能回到使用 100% 的自由現金流進行購買。我的意思是，這里為 Liberty Broadband 定義的自由現金流基本上是我們從 Charter 回購的，我們將用它來回購股票。我認為這是最有可能的情況。

On the question of ACP, clearly, we saw that as an attractive program during COVID that help one of the reasons why -- and I'll let you comment on it, Ron as well. One of the reasons why we've seen such in declines in debt, a bad debt. It's one of the reasons why we see -- I think we saw such growth during COVID of the broadband units, our broadband adds, net adds. So I think it's been an attractive program. We'll see what the funding is. They're keeping track of all the funding in D.C. There are a lot of them going on. We'll see how much this one gets done. Ron, what might you add?

關於 ACP 的問題，很明顯，我們將其視為 COVID 期間的一項有吸引力的計劃，這有助於其中一個原因——我也會讓你對此發表評論，羅恩。我們看到債務下降的原因之一是壞賬。這是我們看到的原因之一——我認為我們在寬帶單元的 COVID 期間看到了這種增長，我們的寬帶增加，淨增加。所以我認為這是一個有吸引力的計劃。我們將看看資金是多少。他們正在跟踪華盛頓特區的所有資金。其中有很多正在進行中。我們將看看這個完成了多少。羅恩，你可以添加什麼？

We're -- we've been particularly benefited by ACP in Alaska. And I think it's the primary reason that our bad debt has run at such almost absurdly low levels, we were 0.6% of total revenue for bad debt last year versus an industry norm and a GCI norm pre-COVID of 1.2% to 1.5%. And we've got a material number of subs less than 10,000, but a material number of subs. In Alaska, we qualify for the tribal benefit. So we're getting $75 a month. And I think what it's doing is it's taking the lowest end of our subscriber base that would ordinarily turn on and off and making them good stable customers. That said, we're projecting the benefits of that program to go away sometime early in '24 and our bad debt to return to more normal levels because we think in the current political environment with the Republicans in control of the house, it's unlikely that the funding necessary to continue ACP would be provided and the actual termination date of the program when it runs out of money is unknown, but it's likely in the first half of '24. It depends on the ongoing expenditure rate.

我們——我們特別受益於阿拉斯加的 ACP。我認為這是我們的壞賬處於如此低得幾乎荒謬的水平的主要原因，去年我們的壞賬佔總收入的 0.6%，而行業標準和 GCI 標准在 COVID 之前為 1.2% 至 1.5%。我們的潛艇數量少於 10,000，但潛艇數量確實很多。在阿拉斯加，我們有資格享受部落福利。所以我們每個月能拿到 75 美元。而且我認為它正在做的是它正在佔據我們用戶群的最低端，這些用戶群通常會打開和關閉，並使他們成為穩定的好客戶。也就是說，我們預計該計劃的好處將在 24 年初的某個時候消失，我們的壞賬將恢復到更正常的水平，因為我們認為在共和黨控制眾議院的當前政治環境下，不太可能將提供繼續 ACP 所需的資金，並且當資金用完時該計劃的實際終止日期未知，但很可能在 24 年上半年。這取決於持續的支出率。

So with that, operator, I think we're done. Thank you very much for your interest in both Liberty Trip and Liberty Broadband. We look forward to talking to you next quarter.

所以，操作員，我想我們已經完成了。非常感謝您對 Liberty Trip 和 Liberty Broadband 的關注。我們期待在下個季度與您交談。

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference and webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的電話會議和網絡廣播到此結束。您可以在此時斷開您的線路，並度過美好的一天。我們感謝您的參與。