柯爾百貨 (KSS) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to the Kohl's Corporation fourth-quarter 2024 results conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Trevor Novotny, Senior Manager of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

早安，歡迎參加科爾百貨集團 2024 年第四季業績電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次電話會議正在錄音。現在我想將電話轉給投資者關係高級經理 Trevor Novotny。請繼續。

Thank you. Certain statements made on this call, including projected financial results and the company's future initiatives are forward-looking statements. Such statements are subject to certain risks and uncertainties which could cause Kohl's actual results to differ materially from those projected in such forward-looking statements.

謝謝。本次電話會議上的某些陳述，包括預期的財務結果和公司未來計劃，都是前瞻性陳述。此類聲明受某些風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致科爾的實際結果與此類前瞻性聲明中的預測有重大差異。

Such risks and uncertainties include but are not limited to those that are described in item 1A in Kohl's most recent annual report on Form 10-K and as may be supplemented from time to time in Kohl's other filings with the SEC, all of which are expressly incorporated here and by reference. Forward-looking statements relate to the date initially made, and Kohl's undertakes no obligation to update them.

這些風險和不確定性包括但不限於 Kohl's 最新的 10-K 表年度報告第 1A 項中所述的風險和不確定性，以及 Kohl's 不時向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中補充所述的風險和不確定性，所有這些文件均在此明確納入並通過引用。前瞻性陳述與首次作出的日期有關，Kohl's 不承擔更新這些陳述的義務。

In addition, during this call, we may make reference to non-GAAP financial measures including adjusted net income, adjusted diluted earnings per share, and adjusted free cash flow. Please refer to the cautionary statement regarding non-GAAP measures and reconciliation of these measures included investor presentation filed as an exhibit to our Form 8-K is filed with the SEC and available on our investor relations website.

此外，在本次電話會議中，我們可能會參考非公認會計準則財務指標，包括調整後的淨收入、調整後的每股稀釋收益和調整後的自由現金流量。請參閱關於非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 指標的警示聲明，這些指標的對帳包括作為我們 8-K 表附件提交的投資者介紹，該介紹已提交給美國證券交易委員會 (SEC)，並可在我們的投資者關係網站上查閱。

Please note that this call will be recorded. However, replays of this call will not be updated. So if you are listening to a replay of this call, it is possible that the information discussed is no longer current, and Kohl's undertakes no obligation to update such information.

請注意，本次通話將會被錄音。不過，此次通話的重播將不會更新。因此，如果您正在收聽此通話的重播，則所討論的資訊可能不再是最新的，而 Kohl's 不承擔更新此類資訊的義務。

With me this morning are Ashley Buchanan, our Chief Executive Officer, and Jill Tim, our Chief Financial Officer. I will now turn the call over to Ashley.

今天早上與我在一起的有我們的執行長阿什利·布坎南 (Ashley Buchanan) 和我們的財務長吉爾·蒂姆 (Jill Tim)。現在我將電話轉給阿什利。

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Kohl's fourth quarter earnings call. I would like to start today by saying thank you to the Kohl's organization and our Board of Directors for giving me a warm welcome to Kohl's. I'm very excited to lead this great company, and as you will hear today, I believe Kohl's has a substantial opportunity to build on its solid foundation and position the company for future success.

大家早安，歡迎參加科爾百貨第四季財報電話會議。今天，我首先要感謝科爾公司和董事會對我來到科爾公司的熱烈歡迎。我很高興能夠領導這家偉大的公司，正如你們今天所聽到的，我相信科爾士有很大機會在其堅實的基礎上再接再厲，為公司未來的成功做好準備。

I have been in the retail industry for nearly 20 years now. I've held leadership positions at Sam's Club, Walmart, and most recently served as the CEO of the Michael's companies for the past 5 years. I love the fast pace of the retail industry and the challenge of meeting changing customer expectations during the ongoing retail evolution. To stay ahead, we need to take a data informed approach to listen to the customer and meet them where they desire to be met.

我從事零售業已經近20年了。我曾在山姆會員店、沃爾瑪擔任領導職務，最近 5 年一直擔任 Michael's 公司的執行長。我喜歡零售業的快速發展以及在零售業不斷發展的過程中滿足不斷變化的客戶期望的挑戰。為了保持領先，我們需要採取數據知情的方法來傾聽客戶的意見並滿足他們的要求。

My review of the business is still ongoing, but today, I want to share my initial takeaways and discuss a few opportunities that we have identified to reposition ourselves for improvement in 2025 and to lay the groundwork for future progress and initiatives. Jill will then address our fourth quarter and year end performance.

我對業務的審查仍在進行中，但今天，我想分享我的初步收穫，並討論我們發現的一些機會，以便重新定位自己，在 2025 年取得進步，並為未來的進步和舉措奠定基礎。然後吉爾將談到我們的第四季和年終業績。

Since joining Kohl's in mid-January, I have taken time to analyze our current business trends, review our strategic framework, and assess our operational structure. I've been engaging with teams across the company, using numerous stores, and most importantly, getting to know our customers' perceptions and expectations of Kohl's.

自從一月中旬加入科爾士百貨以來，我一直在分析我們當前的業務趨勢、審查我們的策略框架並評估我們的營運結構。我一直與公司各個團隊接觸，使用眾多商店，最重要的是，了解我們的客戶對 Kohl's 的看法和期望。

It is very clear to me that Kohl's is built on a solid foundation that includes operating more than 1,100 conveniently located stores nationwide. Serving over 60 million customers, with 30 million of those customers being Kohl's loyalty members. With this foundation in place, it was a tremendous opportunity to build on our strength, address key areas of opportunities and better serve our customers more consistently every day.

我很清楚，Kohl's 擁有堅實的基礎，包括在全國經營 1,100 多家位置便利的商店。服務超過 6000 萬客戶，其中 3000 萬客戶是 Kohl's 的忠誠會員。有了這個基礎，我們就有絕佳的機會來鞏固自己的實力，抓住關鍵領域的機遇，並每天更持續、更好地服務我們的客戶。

Kohl's customers expect great product, great value, and a great experience. Over the past few years, we have implemented a significant amount of change across our assortment, value strategies and store experience in an effort to attract new customers.

Kohl's 的客戶期望獲得優質的產品、巨大的價值和絕佳的體驗。在過去幾年中，為了吸引新客戶，我們在產品組合、價值策略和商店體驗方面進行了重大變革。

While the intention of the strategy to engage a new customer has been important, it has also caused friction with our core customer. We need to reprioritize our initiatives to deliver on these key tenants to better serve all of our customers, both new and existing.

雖然吸引新客戶的策略意圖很重要，但它也造成了我們與核心客戶的摩擦。我們需要重新調整我們的計劃的優先順序，以實現這些關鍵原則，以便更好地服務我們的所有新舊客戶。

When examining recent performance, we have fallen short of fully delivering what our customers want and expect from Kohl's. Most of what we need to do is in our control and can be achieved by setting a clear vision and holding ourselves accountable to executing at a higher standard.

在審查最近的表現時，我們發現我們未能完全滿足客戶對 Kohl's 的需求和期望。我們需要做的大多數事情都在我們的掌控之中，並且可以透過設定清晰的願景並嚴格按照更高的標準執行來實現。

As you will see from the financial guidance we're giving today, I want to set the expectations that this turnaround, while very achievable, is going to take some time. Progress starts with the actions we are taking in 2025 to address opportunities and better serve our customers. This marks the initial phase of actions from my ongoing assessments.

正如您將從我們今天提供的財務指導中看到的，我想設定這樣的預期：這種轉變雖然很容易實現，但仍需要一些時間。進步始於我們在 2025 年採取的行動，以抓住機會並更好地服務我們的客戶。這標誌著我正在進行的評估行動的初始階段。

Let me now discuss a few areas of focus. First, offer a curated more balanced assortment that fulfills needs across all our customers. Second, re-establish Kohl's as a leader in value and quality. And third, deliver a frictionless shopping experience.

現在我來討論幾個重點領域。首先，提供精心挑選的、更均衡的產品組合，滿足所有顧客的需求。其次，重新確立科爾士百貨在價值和品質上的領先地位。第三，提供順暢的購物體驗。

Let me begin with offering a curated, more balanced assortment that fulfills needs across all our customers. As we are working through our merchandise strategies, our goal will be driving improved assortment clarity across all categories with a purpose behind each brand and each product.

首先，我要提供精心挑選的、更均衡的產品組合，以滿足所有顧客的需求。當我們制定商品策略時，我們的目標是提高所有類別的商品組合清晰度，並明確每個品牌和每種產品的目的。

Recently, our focus has been heavily weighted on new products to attract new customers, and we have de-emphasized the products and categories that our core customers love. Kohl's began to recognize this in 2024 and immediately began to refocus attention on categories where we had lost traction, including fine jewelry, petites, and proprietary brands.

最近，我們將重點放在推出新產品以吸引新客戶上，而較少強調核心客戶喜愛的產品和類別。Kohl's 在 2024 年開始意識到這一點，並立即開始將注意力重新集中在我們失去吸引力的類別上，包括高級珠寶、小件商品和自有品牌。

Now, we're encouraged with the improved trends we're seeing with the majority of the recovery still ahead of us. While we readjust these categories, I want to be clear. We will also continue to prioritize our key growth categories that are resonating with our customers, including Sephora, Home Decor, and Impulse.

現在，我們看到了令人鼓舞的改善趨勢，大部分復甦仍在我們眼前。當我們重新調整這些類別時，我想明確一點。我們也將繼續優先考慮與客戶產生共鳴的關鍵成長類別，包括絲芙蘭、家居裝飾和 Impulse。

We have built solid momentum in these categories in 2024 and know there's an additional growth potential in each of these areas. We're working diligently to find the right balance within our assortment, and we deliver what our customers want and expect from Kohl's.

我們在 2024 年在這些類別中建立了強勁的發展勢頭，並且知道每個領域都有額外的成長潛力。我們努力在我們的產品組合中找到適當的平衡，並滿足客戶對 Kohl's 的需求和期望。

Re-establish ourselves as a leader in quality and value by offering great products at great price and enhancing our promotions to drive even more value. We will start by rebalancing our assortments to match customer needs by elevating our focus on our proprietary brands. These brands provide quality, value, and an exclusive reason to shop at Kohl's. They resonate with our core loyal customers, and we have an opportunity to re-engage this customer by unlocking the full potential of our proprietary brands.

透過提供價格優惠的優質產品並加強促銷以創造更多價值，重新確立我們在品質和價值方面的領先地位。我們將首先重新平衡我們的產品組合，透過提高對專有品牌的關注來滿足客戶需求。這些品牌提供優質、超值的產品，以及在 Kohl's 購物的獨特理由。它們與我們的核心忠實客戶產生了共鳴，我們有機會透過充分發揮我們專有品牌的潛力來重新吸引這些客戶。

Kohl's has amazing proprietary brands such as SONOMA and Flex that our customers love. They serve an important purpose in our value proposition, offering lower price points on great products for our customers.

Kohl's 擁有 SONOMA 和 Flex 等深受顧客喜愛的專有品牌。它們在我們的價值主張中發揮著重要作用，為我們的客戶提供價格更低、品質更高的產品。

Strengthening our proprietary brand offering is key to our success. We will build on brands like SONOMA and Flex, enhancing our current brand portfolio to become a destination for affordable, quality products you can only get at Kohl's. We'll also look for opportunities to introduce new products that fill a purpose for our customer and drive productivity with our merchandise portfolio.

加強我們的專有品牌供應是我們成功的關鍵。我們將以 SONOMA 和 Flex 等品牌為基礎，增強我們現有的品牌組合，使其成為您只能在 Kohl's 購買到價格實惠、品質優良的產品的首選之地。我們還將尋找機會推出新產品，以滿足客戶的需求並透過我們的商品組合提高生產力。

Our national brands also play an integral role in our commitment to quality and value. Key national brands bring a known sense of quality in their assortments. We know our customers love national brands and they trust to buy these brands at Kohl's knowing they got a great deal.

我們的民族品牌在我們對品質和價值的承諾中也發揮著不可或缺的作用。主要的國家品牌在其產品系列中展現出眾所周知的品質感。我們知道我們的客戶喜愛國家品牌，並且他們相信在 Kohl's 購買這些品牌會為他們帶來很大的實惠。

Kohl's has historically delivered additional value through exceptional promotions, coupons, and Kohl's cash. Promotions have always been a key part of our value proposition. Over the years, our list of excluded brands on our coupon has grown too large, with the percent of sales that are excluded from coupons reaching an all-time high in 2024. This has created confusion and frustration with our loyalist customer. We're in the process of reversing some of these exclusions to simplify the experience and allow our customers to shop with our promotional coupons more consistently.

科爾百貨歷來透過特殊促銷、優惠券和科爾百貨現金來提供附加價值。促銷一直是我們價值主張的關鍵部分。多年來，我們的優惠券中排除的品牌名單變得越來越長，優惠券中排除的品牌銷售額的百分比在 2024 年達到了歷史最高水平。這給我們的忠實客戶帶來了困惑和沮喪。我們正在取消其中一些排除規定，以簡化體驗並允許我們的客戶更一致地使用我們的促銷優惠券購物。

In addition to promotions, our customers want more clarity in our price and value messages. We will continue to work to simplify our messaging by reducing the complexity of our offers, as well as amplify our great prices, as we have seen this start to resonate with our customers.

除了促銷之外，我們的客戶還希望我們的價格和價值資訊更加清晰。我們將繼續努力簡化訊息傳遞，降低報價的複雜性，並擴大我們的優惠價格，因為我們已經看到這開始引起客戶的共鳴。

Our goal is to offer quality products at great prices across our entire brand portfolio, so our customers can more clearly see the value they're getting with their purchase. Making these pivots will allow us to simplify our promotion and clarify our value messaging to create a better shopping experience. Which leads us to our third priority, enhancing our omnichannel platform to deliver a frictionless experience to our customers.

我們的目標是透過我們的整個品牌組合提供價格優惠的優質產品，以便我們的客戶可以更清楚地看到他們購買的產品所獲得的價值。透過這些轉變，我們可以簡化促銷活動，明確我們的價值訊息，以創造更好的購物體驗。這引出了我們的第三個優先事項，即增強我們的全通路平台，為我們的客戶提供無摩擦的體驗。

We want our customers to have a consistent experience across all channels, restoring trip assurance for key items, increasing inspiration in store and online, and providing more consistent store and digital experience so our customers can easily shop co at any store or online in any platform.

我們希望我們的客戶在所有管道中獲得一致的體驗，恢復關鍵商品的行程保證，增加店內和線上的靈感，並提供更一致的店內和數位體驗，以便我們的客戶可以輕鬆地在任何商店或任何平台的線上購物。

We can improve the customer experience for more consistent in stocks for high volume items, particularly our basic and essentials. We will continue to manage inventory highly, but need to restore trip assurance for our customers through greater buy depth and supply chain agility.

我們可以改善客戶體驗，使大宗商品（特別是基本商品和必需品）的庫存更加穩定。我們將繼續嚴格管理庫存，但需要透過更大的購買深度和供應鏈靈活性為我們的客戶恢復出行保證。

The optimization of store layout will be done through a combination of productivity and adjacency analysis. This will provide clarity to the customer of the purpose of each brand. We will also thoughtfully improve category placement to create an easier shopping experience for customers to find their frequently purchased items and discover new and relevant choices, achieving a successful omnichannel platform requires both the store and digital business to work together in tandem.

商店佈局的優化將透過生產力和鄰近分析的結合來進行。這將使顧客清楚地了解每個品牌的宗旨。我們還將精心改善類別佈局，為顧客創造更輕鬆的購物體驗，讓他們能夠找到經常購買的商品並發現新的相關選擇，實現成功的全通路平台需要商店和數位業務的協同合作。

While our store and digit business do have some synergies, there are many aspects in how we operate that we can do better. We have identified opportunities in our omnichannel business and some of the initial work is already underway.

雖然我們的商店和數位業務確實具有一些協同作用，但我們在營運方式上還有很多方面可以做得更好。我們已經發現了全通路業務中的機遇，並且一些前期工作已經在進行中。

While it's too early to share any details, we're excited about the opportunity to leverage technology. We have more to say share later in the year we develop these plans. The goal of all this work is to make shopping in Kohl's a more enjoyable and reliable experience.

雖然現在分享任何細節還為時過早，但我們對利用科技的機會感到非常興奮。今年稍後我們將製定這些計劃，屆時我們將分享更多資訊。所有這些工作的目標是使在科爾百貨購物成為更愉快和可靠的體驗。

Importantly, while these areas will be the focus in our near term, it is also my expectation that every association in our organization has a commitment and a role in driving operational excellence. Simply put, we will work to create a more efficient organization that will focus on reducing costs to allow us to invest in our future growth.

重要的是，雖然這些領域將是我們近期的關注重點，但我也期望我們組織中的每個協會都致力於推動卓越營運並發揮作用。簡而言之，我們將努力創建一個更有效率的組織，專注於降低成本，以便我們能夠投資未來的成長。

We know that part of setting up the business for future success is to have a high level of discipline on managing costs. To summarize my comments today, I'd like to reiterate my takeaways.

我們知道，為未來的成功建立業務的一部分是在成本管理方面有高度的紀律。總結我今天的評論，我想重申我的要點。

First, Kohl's is a strong company built on a very solid foundation, with over 1,100 stores serving more than 60 million customers. The opportunity that lies ahead of us is substantial. Kohl's serves an important role in the retail landscape, and we have the ability to better execute and serve our customers.

首先，科爾士百貨是一家實力雄厚的公司，擁有超過 1,100 家門市，為超過 6,000 萬名客戶提供服務。我們面前的機會是巨大的。科爾士在零售領域扮演著重要角色，我們有能力更好地執行並服務我們的客戶。

Second, we have identified areas that are repositioning us for improved results as a better align with our customers want and expect from Kohl's, including offering a curated or balanced assortment that fulfills needs across all customers, re-establishing Kohl's as a leader in value and quality, enhancing our omnichannel platform to deliver a frictionless experience.

其次，我們確定了重新定位的領域，以更好地滿足客戶對科爾士的需求和期望，從而提高業績，包括提供精選或均衡的商品組合，滿足所有客戶的需求，重新確立科爾士在價值和品質方面的領先地位，增強我們的全通路平台以提供無摩擦的體驗。

And last, this will take some time. I want to be realistic in how we're setting our expectations. My full review of the business and go forward strategy is still ongoing. The actions we are taking in 2025 are a step in the right direction, but there's more work to be done to unlock the full potential of this company. We will have the details on additional initiatives later in the year, and I'll hand over the call to Jill.

最後，這需要一些時間。我希望我們能夠以現實的態度來設定我們的期望。我對業務和未來策略的全面審查仍在進行中。我們在 2025 年採取的行動是朝著正確方向邁出的一步，但要充分發揮公司的潛力，還有很多工作要做。我們將在今年稍後公佈有關其他舉措的細節，然後我會把電話交給吉爾。

Thank you, Ashley. And good morning, everyone. I'll provide details on our fourth quarter performance and then discuss our guidance for 2025.

謝謝你，阿什利。大家早安。我將詳細介紹我們第四季的業績，然後討論我們對 2025 年的指導。

Net sales declined 9.4% in Q4 and 7.2% for the year. Comparable sales decreased 6.7% in Q4 and 6.5% for the year. The variance between net sales and comparable sales in Q4 is primarily due to the 53rd week last year, which we previously stated was worth $164 million.

第四季淨銷售額下降 9.4%，全年下降 7.2%。第四季可比銷售額下降 6.7%，全年下降 6.5%。第四季淨銷售額與可比較銷售額之間的差異主要歸因於去年第 53 週，我們先前聲明該週的銷售額為 1.64 億美元。

From a channel perspective, our store comparable sales declined 3.1% in Q4, and we're down 5.6% for the year. Store sales benefited from strong average transaction value and saw improvement throughout the quarter with January having the strongest performance.

從通路角度來看，我們商店的可比銷售額在第四季度下降了 3.1%，全年下降了 5.6%。門市銷售受益於強勁的平均交易價值，並在整個季度得到改善，其中 1 月表現最為強勁。

We experienced underperformance in our digital business during Q4, with comparable sales declining 13.4% in the quarter and down 8.7% for the year. Digital sales were pressured from softness in home, particularly in legacy home, which over penetrates into our online business.

我們的數位業務在第四季表現不佳，本季可比銷售額下降 13.4%，全年下降 8.7%。數位銷售受到家居銷售疲軟的壓力，尤其是傳統家居銷售，這過度滲透到了我們的線上業務。

We also saw headwinds in our digital conversion in Q4. Part of the conversion headwind was due to an online inventory suppression issue that impacted our availability. We've corrected this issue and are seeing an improved conversion and performance quarter to date.

我們在第四季的數位轉型中也遇到了阻力。轉換阻力的部分原因是由於線上庫存抑制問題影響了我們的可用性。我們已糾正了這個問題，並且看到本季迄今的轉換率和效能有所提高。

Turning to line of business results. Nearly all lines of business improve their comparable sales performance versus Q3. Sephora continued to be a strong sales driver, with comparable beauty sales increasing 13%, and acceleration from the third quarter.

轉向業務線成果。與第三季相比，幾乎所有業務線的可比銷售業績都有所提升。絲芙蘭持續成為強勁的銷售推動力，美容產品同店銷售額成長 13%，且較第三季有所加速。

Fragrance, Bath and Body, and skincare continued their outperformance in the quarter. Our expanded offerings of gift sets designated extremely well with our customers. And we continue to see brands such as Sol de Janeiro, Lineage, YSL, and Summer Fridays perform especially well in the quarter.

香水、沐浴及身體護理產品以及護膚品在本季持續表現出色。我們不斷擴展的禮品套裝產品範圍得到了客戶的一致好評。我們繼續看到 Sol de Janeiro、Lineage、YSL 和 Summer Fridays 等品牌在本季度表現尤為出色。

In addition, our accessories business, excluding Sephora, had a flat comp for the quarter. This was driven by our investment back into jewelry with strong performance in fashion and bridge jewelry, as well as fashion accessories and our impulse business. We have made good progress on rebuilding our proprietary brand inventory position through the quarter.

此外，我們的配件業務（絲芙蘭除外）本季表現持平。這是由於我們對珠寶的投資重新增長所致，時尚珠寶和橋樑珠寶以及時尚配件和衝動性業務均表現強勁。本季我們在重建專有品牌庫存地位方面取得了良好進展。

As we received fresh receipts in our proprietary brands, we saw a relative sales lift throughout the quarter. This helped deliver a notable comparable sales improvement in our apparel businesses when compared to Q3. We expect these businesses to continue to improve in 2025 as we rebalance our inventory.

隨著我們專有品牌的銷量不斷增長，我們看到整個季度的銷售額相對提升。與第三季相比，這有助於我們的服裝業務實現顯著的可比銷售額成長。我們預計，隨著我們重新平衡庫存，這些業務將在 2025 年繼續改善。

Last, we continue to see collective outperformance in our key growth categories, including impulse, gifting, home decor, and baby gear. However, this outperformance was not enough to offset our legacy home business, which remained challenged in the fourth quarter. Our kitchen electrics, floor care, and bedding continued to underperform.

最後，我們繼續看到衝動消費、送禮、家居裝飾和嬰兒用品等主要增長類別的集體優異表現。然而，這種優異的表現不足以抵消我們傳統家居業務在第四季度仍然面臨挑戰的影響。我們的廚房電器、地板護理和床上用品持續表現不佳。

Moving down the P&L, other revenue was $222 million in Q4, a $24 million decrease versus last year. The decrease was driven by a decline in credit revenue due to lower revolving credit balances and lower late fees. Gross margin in Q4 was 32.9%, an increase of 49 basis points. The year-over-year increase was driven primarily by optimizing our promotional events as well as lower digital penetration.

損益表中，第四季的其他收入為 2.22 億美元，比去年減少 2,400 萬美元。下降的原因是由於循環信用餘額減少和滯納金減少導致信用收入下降。第四季毛利率為32.9%，增加49個基點。年比成長主要得益於我們促銷活動的優化以及數位滲透率的降低。

For the full fiscal year 2024, gross margin increased 50 basis points to 37.2%. SG&A expenses in Q4 decreased 4.5% to $1.5 billion deleveraging approximately 148 basis points versus last year. The decrease to last year was driven primarily by lower spending in stores, marketing, and supply chain.

2024財年全年毛利率增加50個基點至37.2%。第四季銷售、一般及行政開支下降 4.5% 至 15 億美元，與去年相比，槓桿率下降約 148 個基點。去年的下降主要是由於商店、行銷和供應鏈支出的減少。

For the full year, SG&A decreased 3.7%. Depreciation expense was $183 million in Q4 and with $743 million for the full year. As compared to last year, depreciation expense declined $4 million and $6 million respectively, driven by reduced technology capital spends.

全年銷售、一般及行政開支下降 3.7%。第四季折舊費用為 1.83 億美元，全年折舊費用為 7.43 億美元。與去年相比，由於技術資本支出減少，折舊費用分別下降了 400 萬美元和 600 萬美元。

Interest expense in Q4 was $74 million and $319 million for the full year. Relative to last year, interest expense decreased $8 million in Q4 and $25 million for the year, driven by the retirement of $113 million of debt in Q2 this year. Our tax rate was 17% in Q4 and was 12% for the fiscal year.

第四季利息支出為 7,400 萬美元，全年利息支出為 3.19 億美元。與去年相比，第四季的利息支出減少了 800 萬美元，全年減少了 2,500 萬美元，這主要是因為今年第二季償還了 1.13 億美元的債務。我們的稅率在第四季為 17%，整個財政年度的稅率為 12%。

Adjusted net income for the quarter was $106 million and adjusted earnings per diluted share was $0.95. For the year, adjusted net income was $167 million and adjusted earnings per diluted share was $1.

本季調整後的淨收入為 1.06 億美元，調整後的每股攤薄收益為 0.95 美元。全年調整後淨收入為 1.67 億美元，調整後每股稀釋收益為 1 美元。

During the fourth quarter, the company announced the closure of 27 underperforming stores and 1 e-commerce fulfillment center. These measures are part of the company's ongoing effort to increase efficiency and support the health and future of its business. The impact of this decision resulted in a one-time charge of $76 million and earnings per diluted share of $0.52 and have been excluded from the numbers discussed.

第四季度，該公司宣布關閉 27 家業績不佳的商店和 1 家電子商務履行中心。這些舉措是公司不斷努力提高效率、支持業務健康和未來發展的一部分。該決定的影響導致了 7,600 萬美元的一次性費用和每股 0.52 美元的攤薄收益，因此已被排除在討論的數字之外。

Moving to our balance sheet and cash flow, we ended the year with $134 million of cash and cash equivalents. Inventory was up 2% compared to last year, driven by our investments to rebuild our proprietary brand inventory.

至於我們的資產負債表和現金流，我們截至年底的現金和現金等價物為 1.34 億美元。由於我們投資重建專有品牌庫存，庫存比去年增加了 2%。

Operating cash flow is $596 million in Q4 and $648 million for the full year. Capital expenditures for the quarter were $99 million and $466 million for the year.

第四季營運現金流為 5.96 億美元，全年營運現金流為 6.48 億美元。本季的資本支出為 9,900 萬美元，全年資本支出為 4.66 億美元。

In 2024, we retired $113 million of bonds and returned $222 million to shareholders through the dividends. We ended the year with $290 million outstanding on a revolver.

2024年，我們償還了1.13億美元的債券，並透過股息向股東返還了2.22億美元。截至年底，我們的循環貸款未償還餘額為 2.9 億美元。

Now, let me provide details on our outlook for 2025. As you heard from Ashley this morning, Kohl's is a solid company with substantial opportunity, but this will take time. We've undergone a lot of change over the last couple of years. Some changes were positive, while other changes led to some missteps. As we approach 2025, our guidance outlook recognizes both the time needed to make the necessary changes, as well as the uncertainty in the macro environment.

現在，讓我詳細介紹一下我們對 2025 年的展望。正如您今天早上從阿什利那裡聽到的，科爾士百貨是一家實力雄厚的公司，擁有巨大的機遇，但這需要時間。過去幾年我們經歷了許多變化。有些變化是正面的，而其他變化導致了一些失誤。隨著我們接近 2025 年，我們的指導展望既認識到做出必要改變所需的時間，也認識到宏觀環境中的不確定性。

For the full year, we currently expect net sales to be in the range of a 5% decrease to a 7% decrease versus 2024. Comparable sales to be in the range of a 4% decrease to a 6% decrease. Comp sales will have an approximately 90 basis points benefit from net sales due to store closures. Operating margins to be in the range of 2.2% to 2.6%. And earnings per share to be in the range of $0.10 per diluted share to $0.60 per diluted share.

就全年而言，我們目前預計淨銷售額將比 2024 年下降 5% 至 7%。可比銷售額下降幅度在 4% 至 6% 之間。由於門市關閉，同店銷售額將從淨銷售額中獲益約 90 個基點。營業利益率在2.2%至2.6%之間。每股收益在每股攤薄收益 0.10 美元至每股攤薄收益 0.60 美元之間。

Now, let me share some additional guidance details. We expect other revenue to be down 12%. The decrease is due to an accounting change that requires us to move a portion of our credit expenses from SG&A to net against credit revenue. As well as lower accounts receivable balances driven by sales underperformance in 2024, especially by our credit customer.

現在，讓我分享一些額外的指導細節。我們預計其他收入將下降 12%。下降是由於會計變更，變更要求我們將部分信貸支出從銷售、一般和行政費用轉移到信貸收入淨額。2024 年銷售業績不佳（尤其是我們的信用客戶）導致應收帳款餘額下降。

Gross margin to expand 30 basis points to 50 basis points driven by continued inventory management, increased proprietary brand sales, and optimizing promotional offers. SG&A dollars to be in the range of down 3.5% to down 5%. These savings will be driven by our Q4 actions resulting in lower store payroll and supply chain costs, as well as lower marketing expenses and a benefit from a portion of the credit expenses moving into other revenue, as I previously mentioned.

受持續庫存管理、自有品牌銷售增加和促銷優惠優化的推動，毛利率將擴大 30 個基點至 50 個基點。銷售、一般及行政開支將下降 3.5% 至 5% 之間。這些節省將得益於我們第四季度採取的行動，從而降低商店工資和供應鏈成本，以及降低行銷費用，並受益於部分信貸費用轉入其他收入，正如我之前提到的。

Depreciation and amortization of $730 million. Interest expense of $315 million and a tax rate of 18%. As we anticipate the new initiatives to take time to have an impact, we expect a sales build throughout the year.

折舊和攤提為 7.3 億美元。利息支出為3.15億美元，稅率為18%。由於我們預計新措施需要一段時間才能產生影響，因此我們預計全年銷售額都會成長。

And although we are pleased with our start to Q1, there's a lot of quarters still ahead of us. Given the uncertainty in the macro environment, we will stay prudent and expect Q1 comparable sales to be at the low end of our sales guidance range for the year, with the remaining metrics balanced by quarter.

儘管我們對第一季的開局感到滿意，但未來還有很多個季度。鑑於宏觀環境的不確定性，我們將保持謹慎，預計第一季可比銷售額將處於今年銷售指導範圍的低端，其餘指標將按季度平衡。

Next, I would like to discuss how we are prioritizing our capital allocation for 2025. In 2025, our focus will be rebuilding our cash balance, reducing our reliance on the revolver, and capitalizing on opportunities to further reduce our debt and overall leverage.

接下來，我想討論我們如何優先安排2025年的資本配置。2025 年，我們的重點將是重建現金餘額，減少對循環信貸的依賴，並利用機會進一步減少債務和整體槓桿率。

We will be addressing our July 2025 maturities this spring with the intention to refinance the debt. We expect capital expenditures to be in the range of $400 million to $425 million. CapEx in 2025 will include investments to complete the rollout of Sephora, expand impulse queuing fixtures, and omnichannel enhancements. Additionally, we'll be opening 2 small stores in the first quarter.

我們將於今年春季解決 2025 年 7 月到期的債務問題，並打算進行再融資。我們預計資本支出在 4 億至 4.25 億美元之間。2025 年的資本支出將包括完成絲芙蘭 (Sephora) 的推出、擴大衝動排隊裝置和全通路增強的投資。此外，我們將在第一季開設 2 家小店。

Given our priority to rebuild our cash balance, the Board has made the decision to reduce the dividends. Although we remain committed to returning capital to shareholders, this reduction allows for greater balance sheet flexibility. This morning, the Board declared a quarterly cash dividend of $0.12.50 per share payable to shareholders on April 2.

鑑於我們優先重建現金餘額，董事會決定減少股利。儘管我們仍致力於向股東返還資本，但此次減免將帶來更大的資產負債表彈性。今天上午，董事會宣布向股東派發每股 0.12.50 美元的季度現金股息，並將於 4 月 2 日支付。

With that, Ashley and I are happy to take your questions at this time.

因此，阿什利和我很樂意回答你們的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Mark Altschwager, Baird.

馬克·阿爾特施瓦格，貝爾德。

Could you talk us through your assessment of what has been working, what hasn't been working with the merchandizing strategy, where you believe you can affect the most change in the near term, what may take longer to implement? And this bigger picture, what gives you confidence that Kohl's can return to growth?

您能否向我們介紹您對行銷策略的評價，哪些策略有效，哪些策略無效，您認為哪些策略可以在短期內產生最大的影響，哪些策略可能需要更長時間才能實施？從更大的角度來看，什麼讓您有信心 Kohl's 能夠恢復成長？

Yeah, thanks for the question. Yeah, what I saw, obviously, before I took the job was when I assessed the entire business, I just saw opportunity, right? I saw an opportunity around the products we offer, the value that we're offering and the quality of the product, how we allocate, how we run the stores, and most importantly, how we do an omnichannel experience. We had a lot of friction to the customer piece.

是的，謝謝你的提問。是的，顯然，在我接受這份工作之前，當我評估整個業務時，我看到了機會，對嗎？我看到了有關我們提供的產品、我們提供的價值和產品品質、我們如何分配、我們如何經營商店以及最重要的是我們如何實現全通路體驗的機會。我們在客戶方面遇到了很多摩擦。

And I thought, a lot of the issues really were probably self-inflicted over many years of the decisions, and you could just see what I saw from a customer base that we have a very loyal customer. I mean, when I toured stores, all I heard was how much they love Kohl's and what I realized is that we're kind of making it hard for them to love us a little bit, right?

我認為，很多問題實際上可能是我們多年來在決策過程中自己造成的，從客戶群來看，我們擁有非常忠誠的客戶。我的意思是，當我參觀商店時，我所聽到的都是他們有多喜歡 Kohl's，而我意識到我們讓他們很難喜歡我們，對嗎？

And with that being said, you could just see the opportunity in front of us as far as how we offer the customer value and product, and I just knew that we could do better, and I think the customers expect us to do better.

話雖如此，您可以看到我們面前的機遇，即我們如何為客戶提供價值和產品，而且我知道我們可以做得更好，而且我認為客戶期望我們做得更好。

I'm just -- and then I think the last thing that really kind of got me was I was amazed at our associates in the field, how committed they were, and how they were just truly customer focused. So that's, I mean, that's actually very harder to create, I think in retail sometimes is very dedicated associate base that really wants to serve customers. And so I knew if you have that and you can offer the right value proposition, I knew it could turn.

我只是——然後我想最後真正讓我感動的是，我對我們在該領域的同事感到驚訝，他們是多麼的投入，他們是多麼的真正以客戶為中心。所以，我的意思是，這實際上是非常難以創造的，我認為在零售業中有時需要非常專注的員工群體，他們真正想要為客戶服務。所以我知道如果你擁有這個並且可以提供正確的價值主張，我知道它就會轉變。

It's going to take a little time. The things I laid out, they're really short term and tactical in that sense. I'm still creating the long-term strategy and the greater value proposition, but if you look at the three things we laid out, they're kind of no regret moves. I mean, really leaning into our proprietary brands, which our customers come to expect from us.

這需要一點時間。從這個意義上來說，我所列出的東西其實都是短期和戰術性的。我仍在製定長期策略和更大的價值主張，但如果你看看我們列出的三件事，你會發現它們都是不會後悔的舉措。我的意思是，真正依靠我們的專有品牌，我們的客戶對我們的期望也是如此。

Reimplementing some of the categories we got out of. The categories we and the category we put in were the right ones. They attracted new customers. It was really, I think, in the execution of how we did it. We took away really productive space and products, which I think we could have done it probably a little bit differently and done both.

重新實現一些我們脫離的類別。我們選擇的類別和我們放入的類別都是正確的。他們吸引了新顧客。我認為，這確實取決於我們如何執行。我們拿走了真正高效的空間和產品，我認為我們本可以採取稍微不同的方式來完成這兩項工作。

So, and then you can look at how we do omnichannel. It's clear in our results that there's a bifurcation between us and our peers and our particular e-com business of performing. I was really pleased actually in the fourth quarter, we saw a pretty good trends in our store base, which is kind of an anomaly in the retail landscape. That being said, we saw bifurcation in the e-com business, which, given my experience, I feel very confident over time that we can adjust that trend and get back in line where we expect.

然後您可以看看我們如何實現全通路。從我們的結果可以清楚地看出，我們與同行以及我們特定的電子商務業務表現存在分歧。事實上，我很高興在第四季看到我們的門市基礎呈現出相當好的趨勢，這在零售業中是一種異常現象。話雖如此，我們看到電子商務業務出現了分叉，根據我的經驗，我非常有信心，隨著時間的推移，我們可以調整這種趨勢並回到我們預期的水平。

And just follow up, I guess either for Ashley or Jill. What are the implications from a margin perspective as you aim to elevate the quality of the private brands while also broadening the brand inclusion with the promotional offers. And on the promotional offer side, what has been the feedback from your brand partners initially?

然後繼續跟進，我猜是針對 Ashley 還是 Jill。當您的目標是提升自有品牌的質量，同時透過促銷優惠擴大品牌包容性時，從利潤角度來看，這會產生什麼影響？在促銷優惠方面，您的品牌合作夥伴最初的回饋是什麼？

Well, I mean, if you look at how we're doing, I mean, we started the proprietary, private brand it's really been Q4 before I got here, and the customer was resonating. We kind of lost trip assurance on basically the key basic. So it's not really private versus national. It's really just reserving, I would think from an inventory level, what our customers expect our core customers around our proprietary brands.

嗯，我的意思是，如果你看看我們的表現，你會發現我們創立了專有的私人品牌，在我來這裡之前就已經是第四季度了，客戶對此產生了共鳴。我們基本上失去了最關鍵的基礎旅行保障。因此，這實際上並不是私人與國家之間的問題。我認為，從庫存水準來看，這實際上只是保留我們的客戶對我們的專有品牌的核心客戶的期望。

So, and how we get there from a from a discounting perspective, how we do promotions and where we put our markdowns, I think there's a lot of opportunity and particularly how we allocate product and where we send products. There's a lot of opportunity on the efficiency of that and we could take a lot of cost out of that and put that into the price point. But over time, if you just look at it, our mix of what has been excluded from the coupon has gotten too high and that you, that's clear. I mean, without a -- there's really little doubt from a customer perspective, particularly our core loyal customer, that we've excluded too many brands from that, which then has an impact on obviously how they view value from us.

所以，從折扣的角度來看我們如何實現這一目標，如何進行促銷以及我們在哪裡降價，我認為有很多機會，特別是我們如何分配產品以及我們將產品發送到哪裡。在提高效率方面有很多機會，我們可以從中節省很多成本，並將其納入價格點。但隨著時間的推移，如果你看一下，你會發現我們從優惠券中排除的內容的混合比例已經變得太高了，這是很清楚的。我的意思是，從客戶的角度來看，特別是我們的核心忠實客戶，毫無疑問，我們排除了太多品牌，這顯然會影響他們如何看待我們的價值。

And I don't think -- I think we can do both, and we've done it in the past. If you look at the mix between proprietary and national brands, obviously, proprietary brands have a better margin mix. We've been create -- I guess, it creates a lot of fuel for productivity on price. So, it's going to take a lot of time to get there because I mean if you think about it, we've already bought pretty much through Q3. So I'm not saying this is an overnight piece, but I'll know how we get there over time as the mix changes and we can drive national brands while we increase our proprietary brands.

我不認為——我認為我們可以同時做到這兩點，而且我們過去也這樣做過。如果你看一下專有品牌和國家品牌之間的組合，顯然專有品牌有更好的利潤組合。我們一直在創造——我想，它為價格生產力的提升創造了很大的動力。所以，要達到這個目標還需要花費很多時間，因為我的意思是，如果你仔細想想，我們已經購買了相當多的第三季產品。因此，我並不是說這是一夜之間就能實現的，但我知道，隨著產品組合的變化，我們如何隨著時間的推移實現這一目標，並且能夠在增加專有品牌的同時推動國家品牌的發展。

Dana Telsey, Telsey Group.

達娜‧特爾西 (Dana Telsey)，特爾西集團 (Telsey Group)。

And as you think about the store profile, we just heard about the 27 store closings that was announced like a month or so ago. How do you think of the store base? What are you looking for? We always knew that they had that they were profitable stores. What's the right mix to be both size and number?

當您考慮商店概況時，我們剛剛聽說大約一個月前宣布的 27 家商店關閉消息。您如何看待門市基礎？你要買什麼？我們一直都知道，他們是有獲利的商店。尺寸和數量的正確組合是什麼？

And then if you look at the merchandise assortment, given the reset that's going on and we've been through active, we've been through numbers of different things. What do you want the mix to look like and what kind of margins do you think it's attainable for the business?

然後，如果你看一下商品分類，考慮到正在進行的重置，我們已經經歷了活躍階段，我們已經經歷了許多不同的事情。您希望這種組合是什麼樣的？您認為這種組合對於企業能達到什麼樣的利潤？

We -- I mean, there's very few stores that are not for all profitable, so we're really blessed in that sense. We have a very productive prototype, particularly our main 80,000 plus prototype, it's very productive and very profitable. As we look at -- so I don't really see, obviously, we always do a healthy evaluation every year of our store base but going into the very few that are -- they are not profitable at this point.

我們——我的意思是，很少有商店不盈利，所以從這個意義上來說我們真的很幸運。我們擁有非常高效的原型，特別是我們的主要 80,000 多個原型，它非常有效率且利潤豐厚。正如我們所看到的——所以我顯然沒有看到，我們每年都會對我們的門市基礎進行健康的評估，但對於極少數的門市來說——它們目前還沒有盈利。

So, with that being said, if you look at inside the box, right, how we allocate space among categories and products and adjacencies, I think we've lost a little bit of discipline on that part, and there's a lot of opportunity. I mean, just a simple thing we've done just recently before I got here is realigning casual pants next to the dress pants and you saw an increase, right? It's just the traditional how the customer shops and the adjacent CTs.

所以，話雖如此，如果你看一下盒子內部，對吧，我們如何在類別、產品和鄰接之間分配空間，我認為我們在這方面失去了一些紀律，並且有很多機會。我的意思是，在我來這裡之前我們最近做了一件簡單的事情，就是將休閒褲與正裝褲重新調整在一起，你看到了增長，對吧？這只是顧客購物和相鄰 CT 的傳統方式。

As far as margin piece, I'm not going to go into the forecast portion, but like I said, it's a very productive box. I mean, we're still thinking through the smaller format piece as how we build out cost and the productivity of that. Obviously, we built several in the last few years. I think it's still a work in progress on the 33,000. The 55s actually are doing pretty well. I still have a lot of opportunity, I think, on how we do the build out and the return. But we're still learning, but our workhorse is still the 80,000 and it's a highly productive prototype.

至於利潤部分，我不會深入討論預測部分，但就像我說的，這是一個非常有效率的領域。我的意思是，我們仍在思考如何解決小尺寸尺寸產品的成本和生產力問題。顯然，我們在過去幾年裡建造了好幾個。我認為 33,000 的目標仍在進行中。55 年代其實表現相當不錯。我認為，在如何進行建設和回報方面，我仍然有很多機會。但我們仍在學習，我們的主力機器仍然是 80,000，而且它是一個高效的原型。

And just any comments on your customer, what you're seeing from the customer, how they performed exiting the fourth quarter and what you're looking for them going forward.

以及您對客戶的任何評論、您從客戶那裡看到了什麼、他們在第四季度結束時的表現如何以及您對他們未來的期望。

I mean if you break down the customer, I think, from a macro perspective, you see a pretty decent bifurcation among income level. We don't see it too much geographically per se. But when you look at income level, if you're making less than 50, that consumer is pretty constrained from a discretionary standpoint. If you're making less than 100, it's also pretty challenging.

我的意思是，如果你從宏觀角度分析客戶，你會看到收入水準有相當大的差異。從地理本身來看，我們並沒有看到太多這樣的情況。但當你看一下收入水準時，如果你的收入低於 50 美元，那麼從可自由支配的角度來看，消費者的消費能力就會受到很大限制。如果您的收入少於 100，那麼這也是相當有挑戰性的。

And you see that very clearly in numbers and obviously, we hear the inflation numbers we're, they're coming down or 2% to 3%, but they're still pretty elevated from a particularly from a grocery and rent perspective in the last few years but they haven't actually deflated. So -- and I'm not sure wages have kept up with that. So in that -- if you're in that income cohort, which we do have a decent portion of our customer base in that, it's a headwind from a macro perspective. You definitely see that in them they're seeking out value. You see it in the mix of the product we're selling. You see it in the promotions that we are doing. They're definitely seeking value.

您可以從數字中清楚地看到這一點，顯然，我們聽到的通貨膨脹數字正在下降或為 2% 至 3%，但從過去幾年的食品雜貨和租金角度來看，它們仍然相當高，但實際上並沒有通貨緊縮。所以——我不確定薪水是否跟上了這一水平。因此，如果你屬於那個收入群體，而我們的客戶群中確實有相當一部分屬於這個收入群體，那麼從宏觀角度來看，這是一個阻力。你肯定會發現他們正在尋求價值。您可以從我們銷售的產品組合中看到這一點。您可以從我們正在進行的促銷活動中看到這一點。他們肯定在尋求價值。

I don't think we're an anomaly in that. If you listen to the other retailers that have come before us and else, they keep talking about people are looking for value. And that will probably expand probably across income cohorts over the next probably 3 or 4 months, I would assume. And I think that's really how we're positioning ourselves, which I let off the quality and value, which I think will resonate with our customers, particularly in this time.

我不認為我們在這方面是個異常現象。如果你聽聽在我們之前的其他零售商的意見，你會發現他們一直在談論人們正在尋求價值。我認為，在未來 3 到 4 個月內，這種現象可能會在各個收入群體中擴大。我認為這正是我們的定位，我強調品質和價值，我認為這會引起客戶的共鳴，特別是在這個時候。

Oliver Chen, TD Cowen.

奧利佛陳（Oliver Chen），TD Cowen 公司。

We were curious about which initiatives would be earlier versus later and what's your take on what might be more difficult to achieve versus longer -- lower hanging fruit?

我們很好奇，哪些舉措會提前，哪些會推遲，以及您認為哪些舉措更難實現，哪些舉措需要更長的時間才能實現——更容易實現？

And Jill, you, you've had the experience of many changes at Kohl's over the years, as well as management. What are your thoughts about how this may be different and comparing it and contrasting it to aspects of the past?

吉爾，這些年來，您經歷了科爾百貨的許多變革以及管理變革。您認為這可能有何不同？與過去相比和對比如何？

And Jill, as we model free cash flow, it's certainly less than last year. Are there puts and takes in networking capital and CapEx that we should know about to help inform the decline? We're modeling like less than half of the free cash flow this year versus last.

吉爾，當我們對自由現金流進行建模時，它肯定比去年少。我們是否應該了解網路資本和資本支出的利弊，以幫助了解衰退的原因？我們預測今年的自由現金流將比去年減少一半以上。

Yeah. I mean, like I referenced, it's going to take some time. Obviously, the three things I laid out in 2025 or I call them, almost tactical, short-term, no regret moves. I mean, it's a long lead time business if anybody's been around, we're looking at 9 months in some cases to get product. And so, the things that we have, the changes that we are implementing, we'll take a little bit of time, right? We probably won't even see the initial thing until next year.

是的。我的意思是，正如我所提到的，這需要一些時間。顯然，我在 2025 年提出的三件事，或者我稱之為的三件事，幾乎是戰術性的、短期的、不會後悔的舉措。我的意思是，如果有人了解的話，這是一個需要很長的準備時間的業務，在某些情況下我們需要 9 個月的時間才能獲得產品。所以，我們所擁有的事情、我們正在實施的變革，都需要一點時間，對嗎？我們可能要等到明年才能看到最初的樣子。

Obviously, there's a lot of things around how we operate the store from a cost perspective, how we do promotions, how we do some of our pricing and the proprietary mix are more short term. The longer-term piece around the value proposition and how we go to market. We're still developing, but it -- like I said, this is a long lead time business and so it takes a little bit of time to turn the ship, just the nature of how the product flows and it works.o

顯然，從成本角度來看，我們如何經營商店、如何進行促銷、如何定價以及專有組合等很多事情都更具短期性。長期來看，這涉及價值主張以及我們如何進入市場。我們仍在發展，但正如我所說，這是一項需要很長準備時間的業務，因此需要一點時間來扭轉局面，這就是產品流動和運作的本質。

And in terms of free cash flow, Oliver, I think what we're going to see this year is obviously, we came into the year with our inventory up a little bit as we're building back into our proprietary brands. We talked on the call that January was actually our strongest month. We said we had a strong start to February, so as we build back into that brand portfolio, we're seeing it really resonate with customers because it does give them value.

就自由現金流而言，奧利弗，我認為我們今年將看到的情況顯然是，隨著我們重新打造我們的專有品牌，我們的庫存在今年會略有增加。我們在電話中說，一月其實是我們最強大的月份。我們說過，我們二月有一個良好的開端，因此，當我們重新建立該品牌組合時，我們看到它確實引起了客戶的共鳴，因為它確實為他們帶來了價值。

We're doing that, we're not going to get as much benefit out of inventory, particularly in the front half of the year. We'll continue to work that down and I'll expect by for the full year our inventory turn will be flat, which does mean our receipts will have to be down. But you'll see that the aggressive decline in receipts as the year moves on, so you won't get as much of a working capital benefit from inventory in '25 as you did in '24.

我們這樣做，我們就不會從庫存中獲得太多利益，特別是在今年上半年。我們將繼續努力，我預計全年我們的庫存週轉率將持平，這意味著我們的收入必須下降。但隨著時間的推移，您會看到收入急劇下降，因此您在 25 年從庫存中獲得的營運資金收益不會像 24 年那麼多。

And Jill, what's your context for the nature of what needs to be done now, relative to your experience?

吉爾，根據您的經驗，您認為現在需要做什麼？

Yeah, I think that how Ashley's outlined it, some of the steps we took were probably a little too far, and we really polarized our core customer, and they're the ones who took some of the brunt from it. You see that a little bit on the credit side, particularly in the credit revenue that customer really came to look for value, wanted to use their coupon, wanted the familiarity of brands that we actually took away from them. They over penetrated in jewelry or petites. So, some of those actions I think were harmful to that core customer. So we need to move back and build that brand love with them again.

是的，我認為正如 Ashley 所概述的那樣，我們採取的一些措施可能有點過頭了，我們的核心客戶確實兩極分化了，他們承受了大部分的衝擊。您可以看到，在信用方面，特別是在信用收入方面，客戶真正尋求的是價值，想要使用他們的優惠券，想要我們實際上從他們那裡奪走的品牌熟悉度。他們在珠寶或小件物品上滲透過多。所以，我認為其中一些行為對核心客戶有害。所以我們需要回頭與他們重新建立這種品牌熱愛。

What I would say is we did bring in a lot of new customers. I mean, obviously, Sephora was helpful from that perspective, and we're driving those customers into our loyalty program. But we really just really need to establish that we have a great experience when you come to the store. We have trip assurance so that we have that depth of inventory when you come to the store, you can get what you're looking for, and we have the brands that you've come to love and look at for clothes from a value perspective. So I think, again, just some of the basics, but I think as we moved farther away from that was what really became harmful, and it really became that core customer from our perspective that we have to bring back in.

我想說的是，我們確實吸引了許多新客戶。我的意思是，顯然，從這個角度來看，絲芙蘭是有幫助的，我們正在將這些顧客納入我們的忠誠度計劃。但我們確實需要確保當您來到商店時能擁有良好的體驗。我們有行程保證，因此當您來到商店時，我們有足夠的庫存，您可以找到您想要的東西，而且我們擁有您喜愛的、從價值角度關注的服裝品牌。所以我認為，這只是一些基本問題，但我認為，隨著我們遠離這些問題，問題變得真正有害，從我們的角度來看，這確實成為了我們必須帶回來的核心客戶。

And finally, just to follow up, Ashley, as you think about value intensely, what's the interplay between supply chain speed and agility relative to value? I think we're in a permanent phase of like unprecedented levels of volatility, which may require shorter lead times, but I know you're often balancing that against price and, transport costs.

最後，阿什利，只是為了跟進，當你深入思考價值時，相對於價值，供應鏈速度和敏捷性之間的相互作用是什麼？我認為我們正處於前所未有的波動階段，這可能需要更短的交貨時間，但我知道你經常會在價格和運輸成本之間進行權衡。

What I've noticed over the last, I got 3 to 4 years is the semi-shocks seem to be more frequent over time, particularly from a supply chain and the way the world supply chains are becoming kind of rethought and obviously rebuilt. I was very pleased when I got here, that Kohl's was actually kind of on the forefront of supply chain diversity and product assurance. I mean they started really back in '18 diversifying their supply base, which I would say is probably 2 to 3 years ahead of most people that I'm aware of. So I was very pleased to, that there was a really strategic plan dating all way back probably to '18 of having kind of a diverse agile supply chain.

過去三、四年來我注意到，隨著時間的推移，半衝擊似乎變得更加頻繁，特別是來自供應鏈以及世界供應鏈的方式正在被重新思考和重建。當我來到這裡時，我感到非常高興，科爾士實際上處於供應鏈多樣性和產品保證的前沿。我的意思是，他們早在 2018 年就開始實現供應基礎多元化，我想說，這可能比我所知道的大多數人提前了 2 到 3 年。所以我很高興，早在 18 年我們就制定了一個真正的策略計劃，旨在打造多樣化、敏捷的供應鏈。

And one of our biggest, I guess the impressive parts is how well our supply chain actually works here at Kohl's. It is a well-oiled machine. There's a lot of opportunity on the allocation part from, say, the corporate side as far as the supply chain. I've been very pleased with how this, that part of the company operates. And like I said, I think it was a they saw the dominoes falling well in advance and around how getting supply chain diversity around security supply. So not really over indexed in the individual country, which has been quite helpful.

我想，我們最令人印象深刻的部分之一是我們的供應鏈在 Kohl's 的運作情況非常好。這是一台運作良好的機器。從企業方面到供應鏈的分配方面來看，存在著許多機會。我對公司這個部門的運作方式非常滿意。正如我所說的，我認為他們提前預見了多米諾骨牌倒下，並預見瞭如何實現圍繞安全供應的供應鏈多樣性。因此，單一國家的指數實際上並沒有被過度指數化，這是非常有幫助的。

Michael Binetti, Evercore.

邁克爾·比內蒂 (Michael Binetti)，Evercore。

Could you maybe help us -- can you speak to the expectations going forward for Sephora, this year in both, the same store sales or store editions?

您能幫我們談談對絲芙蘭今年同店銷售和店內版本的期望嗎？

I guess, secondly, could you explain the comment that the changes the last few years have caused some friction with the legacy existing core Kohl's customer, maybe your answer was embedded in a couple of the other answers you have here. I just wanted to ask specifically what you saw with that comment.

我想，其次，您能否解釋一下這個評論，即過去幾年的變化已經與現有的核心 Kohl's 客戶產生了一些摩擦，也許您的答案嵌入在您在此處提供的其他幾個答案中。我只是想具體問一下您在那條評論中看到了什麼。

And then also elaborate a little bit on the comment of how you're addressing promotions where there's a lot of efficiency that you can take costs out but push the savings into the price point just so we understand a little bit more tactically what you mean by that.

然後，再詳細闡述您關於如何應對促銷的評論，在促銷中，您可以提高效率，降低成本，但將節省的資金投入到價格點，這樣我們就能從策略上更深入地理解您的意思。

Yeah, so I think this year, we will complete -- we opened 140 stores in 2024. We'll complete our rollout this year in 2025 for the remaining stores. Those will all be small shops though because they're going to go into our smaller format stores so the contribution from Sephora will become less.

是的，所以我認為今年我們將完成——我們將在 2024 年開設 140 家門市。我們將於今年（2025 年）在剩餘的門市完成推廣。但那些都是小店，因為他們將進入我們的小型商店，因此絲芙蘭的貢獻將會變少。

Now, we're excited that we actually saw a 13% comp in the quarter. It actually accelerated from Q3, so we continue to see it really resonate with our customer, particularly it's a trip driver for that customer. It's a new customer coming in, and we see that customer about 35% of the time buying something else that while they're at Kohl's. So we have a big opportunity to continue to expand that basket, and I think that's where a lot of that opportunity land.

現在，我們很高興看到本季的年成長率達到了 13%。它實際上從第三季開始加速，因此我們繼續看到它確實引起了客戶的共鳴，特別是它是該客戶的出行驅動力。這是一位新顧客，我們發現該顧客大約有 35％ 的時間會在 Kohl's 商店購買其他商品。因此，我們有很大的機會繼續擴大這個籃子，而且我認為很多機會都在這裡。

The newness continues to resonate. We've called out a lot of great brands, and I know we have newness as we come into 2025 as well. That will help continue to drive that, but obviously, won't have the continued contribution of having new store openings. So you'll see a little bit less of that contribution to the overall comp in 2025 just because you have less new stores opening this year than you did last year.

新鮮感繼續產生共鳴。我們已經推出了許多優秀的品牌，我知道，在進入 2025 年時，我們也將迎來新氣象。這將有助於繼續推動這一趨勢，但顯然不會帶來新店開幕帶來的持續貢獻。因此，到 2025 年，對整體業績的貢獻會稍微減少一些，因為今年開設的新店數量比去年還少。

And the part to the question, On the core customer piece, if you look at -- so when we added these initiatives over time, we took away, I would call it, highly productive, highly incremental product. I mean, Sephora went in, it was actually wildly successful, brought in a new customer base, did all the metrics that you would expect it to do, and they've been a fantastic partner.

問題的部分是，在核心客戶方面，如果你看一下 - 所以當我們隨著時間的推移添加這些舉措時，我們帶走了我稱之為高生產力，高增量的產品。我的意思是，絲芙蘭進軍該領域確實取得了巨大的成功，吸引了新的客戶群，達到了所有預期指標，他們是出色的合作夥伴。

It went into the jewelry section, right? Which if you look at the way jewelry works, there really is no substitute. You come in for it. It's not like you're going to buy, well, I'm going to go buy a shirt now. It was highly incremental and actually highly productive, labor intensive but highly productive. Instead of just moving that and I would say removing duplicative or duplicated product elsewhere or less productive space on the floor, it was just gotten rid of, right? Well, that's a core customer that really there's no other place for it to go.

它進入了珠寶區，對嗎？如果你看一下珠寶的作用，你會發現實際上沒有什麼可以取代它。你來吧。這不像你要買的，好吧，我現在要去買一件襯衫。它是高度漸進的，實際上也是高生產力的，勞動密集的，但生產力很高。我不認為只是移動它們，而是將重複的產品移到其他地方或地板上生產效率較低的空間，而是直接把它們處理掉，對嗎？嗯，這是一個核心客戶，實際上沒有其他地方可以去。

And then you replicate that among petites, big and tall, and you have this kind of a rolling piece of where the ideas that were put in were right. I think it goes back to how you reallocate the space from a data perspective and making sure you're looking at the profit incrementality because petite again, it's 100% incremental because you can't really find that product anywhere else because it's the size fit these. So, the ideas were good. I think we could have done both if you look in retrospect, obviously, easily when you're sitting here in my chair, years later, but it definitely caused friction over time with our core customer that was used to that product, even though we attracted different customers.

然後，你在小個子、大個子和高個子之間複製這個過程，你就會得到這種滾動的效果，其中輸入的想法是正確的。我認為這又回到了你如何從數據的角度重新分配空間，並確保你正在查看利潤增量，因為小巧再次，它是 100％ 增量，因為你無法在其他任何地方找到該產品，因為它的尺寸適合這些。所以，這些想法是好的。如果你回想起來，我認為我們本來可以同時做到這兩點，顯然，當你多年後坐在我的椅子上時，這很容易做到，但隨著時間的推移，它肯定會與習慣於該產品的核心客戶產生摩擦，儘管我們吸引了不同的客戶。

And then the promotion comment.

然後是促銷評論。

And your question on promotion comment, it was.

您關於促銷評論的問題就是這樣的。

Yeah, I just wanted to see if you could elaborate on the comment that you see an opportunity to make the promotions efficient, take some the cost out and push that those savings into the price point, just for us spreadsheet folks, what does that actually mean a little bit more tactically on a retail floor.

是的，我只是想看看您是否可以詳細說明一下這一評論，您看到了一個讓促銷更有效率的機會，削減一些成本，並將節省的資金投入到價格點，對於我們這些電子表格人員來說，這在零售層面上實際上意味著什麼。

I probably -- my comments probably won't help you with your spreadsheet, but from philosophically though, if you look at what we promote, how we promote it, the depth of what we promote it, and the efficiency and the incrementality of it, you get a little bit of a peanut butter spreading across many categories where some are actually way more elastic than others too. We tend to give away a lot of, I'll call it, markdowns at the register. If you look at tactically how we do it, the customer comes in and is not asking for that deal, and we tend to give it to them.

我的評論可能不會對您的電子表格有所幫助，但是從哲學角度來看，如果您看看我們推廣什麼、我們如何推廣、推廣的深度以及推廣的效率和增量，您就會發現，很多類別的推廣方式都很類似，其中一些類別實際上比其他類別更有彈性。我們傾向於在收銀台贈送大量我稱之為的折扣商品。如果你從策略來看我們的做法，你會發現，客戶進來時並沒有要求達成交易，但我們傾向於將交易交給他們。

And so if you think about those two components, you're spending a lot of money at the point where the customer really doesn't. It's not asking for that as opposed to them putting it into things that are highly elastic that the customer is really looking for. So there's some interesting ways that we operate, and it's just a legacy way of doing it. It's pretty typical sometimes when you see in retail, but you can take that money and probably get a higher return that the customers recognize more versus probably just at the register.

因此，如果你考慮這兩個因素，你會發現你花了很多錢，而客戶實際上並不需要。這並不是要求這樣做，而是將其投入到客戶真正需要的高彈性事物中。我們的運作方式有一些有趣，這只是一種傳統方式。在零售業中，這種情況有時很典型，但你可以利用這些錢獲得更高的回報，而客戶可能比在收銀台更能認可這種回報。

Ashley Helgans, Jefferies.

傑富瑞 (Jefferies) 的阿什利·赫爾甘斯 (Ashley Helgans)。

So to start, maybe you could just talk about what sort of kind of consumer health level is embedded in the guide for this upcoming year. And then Ashley, for you, how are you thinking about the right mix of private label versus national brands?

因此首先，您可以談談今年的指南中涵蓋了什麼樣的消費者健康水平。那麼阿什利，對於您來說，您如何看待自有品牌和國家品牌的正確組合？

Sure. I think, overall, we know that there's a lot of uncertainty with the customer and you know we try to definitely take a prudent approach with our guidance. So really our outlook both recognizes the time needed that we have to make the necessary changes that we've outlined today as well as the uncertainty that the consumer is facing in the macro environment. And I think you know that's why, we came out a little bit lower to make sure that we were addressing that uncertainty and the time needed. So I would say it's incorporated in everything we gave you today.

當然。我認為，總的來說，我們知道客戶存在著許多不確定性，而且我們在指導時一定會採取審慎的態度。因此，我們的展望實際上既認識到了我們做出今天概述的必要變革所需的時間，也認識到了消費者在宏觀環境中面臨的不確定性。我想你知道這就是為什麼我們會把標準放低一點，以確保我們能夠解決這種不確定性並留出所需的時間。所以我想說它已經融入我們今天提供給你們的所有內容。

It's a very common question. What's the right mix and what is your target? In my 20 plus years, I have found that to be a very dangerous thing that you throw out, particularly to merchandisers here in retail, because you can tell them to hit a target, and they will hit a target. What I would say would be the customer will decide the mix in the end.

這是一個非常常見的問題。什麼是正確的組合？您的目標是什麼？在我二十多年的從業生涯中，我發現拋棄這一點是非常危險的，特別是對零售業的銷售人員來說，因為你可以告訴他們達到一個目標，他們就會達到目標。我想說的是，客戶最終會決定組合。

I think there'll always be a place for high quality, high value proprietary brands, and then putting that in front of the customer. Along with pretty quality national brands that people recognize and then you let the customer decide.

我認為高品質、高價值的專有品牌永遠有一席之地，並將其呈現在客戶面前。除了人們認可的優質民族品牌之外，您還可以讓客戶做出決定。

Historically, when you set kind of artificial targets that this category is going to be 20% or 30%, I think it kind of takes the customer lens out and you're kind of forcing that upon the customer a little bit. So ultimately, I think the customer decide. I used -- I get the question, I used to get the question all the time like, what does your e-com mix want to want it to be, what your store makes want it to be, whatever the customer, our job is to meet the customer wherever they want to be met.

從歷史上看，當你設定一些人為的目標，例如這個類別將達到 20% 或 30% 時，我認為這會有點脫離客戶的視角，你會有點強迫客戶接受這一點。所以最終我認為還是由客戶來決定。我曾經——我曾經得到過這樣的問題，我曾經一直得到這樣的問題，例如，你的電子商務組合想要它是什麼，你的商店想要它是什麼，無論客戶是誰，我們的工作就是在他們希望的任何地方滿足客戶。

And we can do a better job of that, but I won't give a target because then they'll just hit it. What I want them to do is offer great products at great values, and then let the customer decide and then tell them effectively. That's -- I know that sounds like probably not what you're looking for, but that's really the answer that it deserved for this organization for sure.

我們可以做得更好，但我不會設定目標，因為他們會直接達到目標。我希望他們做的是提供物美價廉的優質產品，然後讓客戶決定，然後有效地告訴他們。這是——我知道這聽起來可能不是你想要的，但這確實是這個組織應得的答案。

Charles Grom, Gordon Haskett.

查爾斯·格羅姆、戈登·哈斯凱特。

Regaining traction with lost customers can be hard and oftentimes can take a long time. I'm curious what steps you're taking to improve on this front. You talked about rebuilding the private brand mix, I'm just curious like what else you can do to go back to those customers, you have a big file, how are you attacking that and is there a cost associated with that as well?

重新獲得失去的客戶的支援可能很困難，而且往往需要很長時間。我很好奇您將採取哪些措施來改善這方面。您談到了重建自有品牌組合，我只是好奇您還可以做些什麼來回饋那些客戶，您有一個大文件，您如何解決這個問題，是否也會產生相關成本？

Yeah, it's good. I mean, obviously, it's easier to keep a customer and regain it historically right in retail. First, we actually have to make the changes and let's start with that. We actually have to go back proprietary brands. We have to put the categories back effectively in the store base. We have to get the brands that our customers want back on the coupon, and then we have to effectively tell them.

是的，很好。我的意思是，顯然，在零售業中留住客戶並重新獲得客戶更容易。首先，我們實際上必須做出改變，讓我們從此開始。我們實際上必須回歸專有品牌。我們必須將類別有效地放回商店基礎中。我們必須從優惠券中找到顧客想要的品牌，然後有效地告訴他們。

The great news is we have a large, very large, customer file that's still existing. We have a large database of active and deactivated customers that we can still reach out to. That part will take a little time. I don't think there's that much incremental cost associated with it given our marketing budget, but that part will take a little bit of time.

好消息是，我們有一個仍然存在的龐大的客戶文件。我們擁有龐大的活躍客戶和已停用客戶的資料庫，我們仍然可以聯繫到這些客戶。這部分需要一點時間。考慮到我們的行銷預算，我認為不會有那麼多的增量成本，但這部分需要一點時間。

You have to do the first part before you can tell them. I think the worst thing you could do is tell them there's something different when it hasn't changed yet, but you can see that in history of retail to be very precarious situation. So for us, it's about getting the proposition right and then bringing them back, not in the reverse order.

你必須先完成第一部分，然後才能告訴他們。我認為你能做的最糟糕的事情就是在事情還沒改變的時候告訴他們情況有所不同，但你可以看到，在零售業的歷史上，這是一個非常不穩定的局面。因此對我們來說，關鍵是要提出正確的主張，然後把它們帶回來，而不是相反的順序。

And then on the store fleet, you're closing 27 stores, and a lot of your peers are more aggressive on that front. I'm curious like what was the logic behind the 27 and I guess why not close more stores and I guess are you prohibited because of the Sephora deal of the closing stores, so that's why you're not getting more aggressive on that front?

在門市數量方面，你們關閉了 27 家門市，而你們的許多同行在這方面的舉措都更為積極。我很好奇這 27 家門市背後的邏輯是什麼，為什麼不關閉更多門市呢，我猜是不是因為絲芙蘭的交易，你們被禁止關閉門市，所以這就是為什麼你們在這方面沒有更積極主動的原因？

I think we've always talked about the fact that our fleet is incredibly healthy, and we didn't have a lot of stores that were underperforming. We're generating cash, for all cash, for more profit out of the vast majority of all of our stores, so there's really not a need to close the doors.

我想我們一直在談論這樣一個事實：我們的車隊非常健康，我們沒有很多表現不佳的商店。我們正在從絕大多數商店中創造現金、獲得更多利潤，因此真的沒有必要關閉。

I look at these 27 stores as hygiene, and that's something we should be doing all the time. We look at it annually, we look at the stores that are underperforming, and we're closing those. Regardless, there's no limitations on which we could close and what makes the most sense.

我認為這 27 家商店是衛生的，這是我們應該一直做的事情。我們每年都會進行審查，找出表現不佳的商店，然後關閉它們。無論如何，對於我們可以關閉哪些內容以及什麼是最有意義的，沒有任何限制。

I think as we come up in the next several years, we have a lot of leases coming due, which then affords you an opportunity to relook at should we be relocating that store, downsizing that store, closing that store, but typically, because we're generating profit and cash in these stores, it's a pretty easy decision to continue moving forward.

我認為，在接下來的幾年裡，我們有很多租約即將到期，這將給你一個機會來重新考慮我們是否應該搬遷那家店、縮小那家店的規模、關閉那家店，但通常情況下，因為我們在這些商店中創造了利潤和現金，所以繼續前進是一個相當容易的決定。

As Ashley mentioned, we could make the four walls more productive inside them, but as it is today, there's just not a reason to have to make a lot of closures. In fact, I think if you look forward, we're testing into these small store formats. We've talked a lot about the 55k and 35k. So it's more about where and how can we expand once we figure out the four walls of our box to say how can we get into some of these more rural markets that we know we have opportunities to serve with our format.

正如阿什利所提到的，我們可以讓四面牆內的工作更有效率，但就目前情況而言，沒有理由必須做出很多關閉。事實上，我認為如果你向前看，我們正在測試這些小型商店格式。我們已經討論過很多有關 55k 和 35k 的問題。因此，更重要的是，一旦我們弄清楚了我們的領域，我們該在哪裡以及如何擴展，說說我們如何進入一些我們知道有機會用我們的方式服務的農村市場。

Matthew Boss, JP Morgan.

摩根大通 (JP Morgan) 的馬修‧博斯 (Matthew Boss)。

So Jill, could you speak to the overall health and composition of inventories exiting the fourth quarter? And then just with the cost structure, maybe if you could speak to further areas of rationalization or is 1% to 2% still the comp required for SG&A leverage in the model.

那麼吉爾，你能談談第四季度庫存的整體健康狀況和組成情況嗎？然後就成本結構而言，也許您可以談論進一步的合理化領域，或者 1% 到 2% 仍然是模型中銷售、一般和行政費用槓桿所需的補償。

Sure, I think from an inventory perspective, I feel really good with the health, although it was up 2%, as we mentioned, we made that investment back into our proprietary brands and also, actually into some of the brands we exited like jewelry, we did have a strong presence of that in the fourth quarter. We thought it resonate with our customers and as we talked about, we saw a flat comp and accessories without Sephora by going back to that category.

當然，我認為從庫存的角度來看，我對健康狀況感到非常滿意，儘管庫存增長了 2%，但正如我們所提到的，我們將這筆投資重新投入到我們的專有品牌中，而且實際上在我們退出的一些品牌中，例如珠寶，我們在第四季度確實佔有強大的地位。我們認為這會引起顧客的共鳴，正如我們所討論的，透過回到該類別，我們看到沒有絲芙蘭的同店和配件表現持平。

So I think as we move into the first quarter, we have an opportunity both with Valentine's Day and Mother's Day to take advantage of that category. So I feel good with the health and the composition of the inventory. Like I mentioned, we're going to continue to rationalize our receipts based on the sales guidance we gave today and for the year look for our turn to be flat, but I feel like we've done everything we need to do from a health of inventory as we entered into the year to set us up well for '25.

因此我認為，隨著我們進入第一季度，我們有機會利用情人節和母親節來利用這個類別。因此，我對庫存的健康和組成感到滿意。正如我所提到的那樣，我們將根據今天給出的銷售指導繼續合理化我們的收據，並期待全年銷售持平，但我覺得我們在進入新的一年時已經從庫存健康狀況方面做了我們需要做的一切，為25年做好了準備。

In terms of the cost structure, obviously, with the guidance down we're down 3.5% to 5%, so we are showing both in '24 and '25 we've cut costs at a more aggressive rate than the typical, 1% to 1.5% comp leverage point that we've given you. So I think if you run your model, you'll see we'll be well beyond that with the guide that we gave for '25. So I think if we look at these opportunities we continue to -- we close an (inaudible). We closed the 27 stores. We've done some headcount rationalization as well, so we continue to look for big ways to optimize.

就成本結構而言，顯然，隨著指導價的下降，我們下降了 3.5% 至 5%，因此，我們表明，無論是在 24 年還是 25 年，我們都以比我們給您的典型的 1% 至 1.5% 的槓桿點更激進的速度削減成本。因此，我認為如果你運行你的模型，你會看到，我們將遠遠超出我們為 25 年給出的指導。因此，我認為，如果我們看清這些機會，我們就會繼續下去——我們結束（聽不清楚）。我們關閉了 27 家商店。我們也進行了一些員工人數合理化調整，因此我們將繼續尋找優化的重大方法。

As we move into 2025, we have some other areas such as lowering our marketing costs. We've talked about, moving that A to F goal down year on year to become more efficient there so we'll continue to lean into that and always looking for ways to optimize our store payroll. We still have 250 stores with self-checkout so as we test and learn there, how can we become more efficient from that labor pool as well.

隨著我們進入 2025 年，我們還將採取一些其他措施，例如降低行銷成本。我們已經討論過，將 A 到 F 的目標逐年降低，以提高效率，因此我們將繼續朝這個方向努力，並始終尋找優化商店工資單的方法。我們仍有 250 家商店提供自助結帳服務，因此，我們在那裡進行測試和學習的同時，也研究如何利用這些勞動力資源來提高效率。

And then as we have been rationalizing down the inventory, that also alleviates labor both in our distributions and in our stores. And so, those type of items will continue as we move into 2025. So I think, the point that I like looking at 11 have comp, but we've clearly done better than that in '24 and the guidance we gave for '25.

隨著我們不斷合理化減少庫存，這也減輕了我們分銷和商店中的勞動負擔。所以，到 2025 年，這些類型的物品仍將繼續存在。因此我認為，我喜歡看的 11 家公司都有可比性，但我們在 24 年和 25 年給出的指導中顯然做得更好。

Brooke Roach, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的布魯克·羅奇。

Ashley, I was hoping we could follow up on Mark's question and speak to the process of reversing the brand exclusions on the coupon program. What does that look like in practice and are you seeing any headway on brand conversations in getting those exclusions removed?

阿什利，我希望我們可以跟進馬克的問題，並談談撤銷優惠券計劃中的品牌排除的過程。這在實務上是什麼樣的？您是否看到品牌對話在消除這些排除方面取得了任何進展？

And then for Jill, I was hoping you could provide some additional color on what you're seeing in your credit business excluding the accounting change, how is the co-branded partnership scaling and how should we be thinking about the contribution from balances and your credit customer health?

然後對於吉爾，我希望您可以提供一些額外的信息，說明您在信貸業務中看到的情況（不包括會計變更），聯合品牌合作夥伴關係的規模如何，以及我們應該如何考慮餘額的貢獻和您的信貸客戶健康狀況？

I mean, we're currently in the process of evaluating every brand. Obviously, some brands that we've carried have always been excluded. I'm not going to sit here and say that we're taking them all off. Actually, they'll always be very large national brands that will always be excluded. I won't name them, but those are -- but they were over the last, I don't know, several years, there have been many brands that didn't ask to be excluded, we excluded them unilaterally if that makes sense.

我的意思是，我們目前正在評估每個品牌。顯然，我們所經營的一些品牌一直被排除在外。我不會坐在這裡說我們要把他們全部撤掉。事實上，它們永遠都是那些被排除在外的大型全國性品牌。我不會說出它們的名字，但這些品牌——我不知道，在過去的幾年裡，有很多品牌沒有要求被排除在外，我們單方面將它們排除在外，如果這有意義的話。

And you do a little bit, every year over the last 3 to 4 or 5 years, and it adds up pretty quickly. And those are really the brands I'm talking about are larger. Some of the larger brands that's always been excluded, I don't really see a change in that value proposition. But there's hundreds upon hundreds of brands that we unilaterally did that our customers over time added up and say, well, this is becoming too excluded when you add up all the product, and those are the ones we're actually looking at and it doesn't really require that much of a conversation because they didn't ask for it and sometimes they actually have asked us to repeal it so those are the easier ones.

在過去的 3、4 或 5 年裡，每年你都會做一點，很快就會累積起來。而我談論的這些品牌確實規模較大。一些一直被排除在外的大品牌，我並沒有看到其價值主張有任何改變。但是，我們單方面取消了數百個品牌，隨著時間的推移，我們的客戶將這些品牌加起來並說，好吧，當你把所有的產品加起來時，這變得太排除在外了，而這些是我們實際正在關注的品牌，而且實際上並不需要那麼多的對話，因為他們沒有要求這樣做，有時他們實際上要求我們廢除它，所以這些是比較容易的。

Obviously, we'll have strategic conversation joint business planning with our much larger national brands and see where they are strategically. I don't see that those worlds will change that much in the short term, but those are between they're really enjoying business planning together and how we drive our brand and their brand together. But over time, we've just excluded unilaterally a lot of brands and those are the ones that I will actively look at on a more immediate basis.

顯然，我們將與更大的全國性品牌進行策略對話，制定聯合業務規劃，並了解他們的策略地位。我不認為這些世界在短期內會發生太大的變化，但他們確實享受著共同的商業規劃，以及我們如何共同推動我們的品牌和他們的品牌。但隨著時間的推移，我們單方面排除了許多品牌，而這些品牌正是我將積極關注的品牌。

Sure. And in terms of credit, as we called out with our sales being softer, we saw that softness more in our core customer, particularly in our credit customer. So that has been the softness that we've talked about in our credit revenue line is that AR balance has kind of continued to be reduced as the sales are down. We have less revolving balances, so that I think as we've projected will go back into 2025. The SDA shift obviously makes that revenue look lower in '25. Without that shift, our credit revenue would be better than the sales comp guide that we had given from a a decreased perspective.

當然。在信貸方面，正如我們所指出的，我們的銷售表現疲軟，我們發現核心客戶，尤其是信貸客戶的表現更為疲軟。所以，我們在信用收入線中談到的疲軟因素是，隨著銷售額的下降，應收帳款餘額持續減少。我們的循環餘額減少了，所以我認為正如我們預期的那樣，這將持續到 2025 年。SDA 的轉變顯然使得 25 年的收入看起來更低。如果沒有這種轉變，我們的信貸收入將會比我們從下降角度給出的銷售補償指南更好。

In terms of the co-brand, we actually just fully completed the co-brand conversion to cap one in February, so that's been successfaully completed from that perspective. We did see though that we gave a little bit less line increases with this last cohort than we had done with the original cohort we had done, and when we do that, we saw a little bit less spend. As the, I think macro environment gets better, that provides us an opportunity to have a line increase which will help generate more sales from that perspective.

就聯合品牌而言，我們實際上剛剛在二月完成了向 cap one 聯合品牌的轉換，因此從這個角度來看，這已經成功完成了。不過，我們確實發現，對於最後一批客戶，我們給予的線路增長比原來的一批客戶要少一些，而當我們這樣做時，我們看到支出也減少了一些。我認為，隨著宏觀環境的改善，這將為我們提供一個增加產品線的機會，從這個角度來看，這將有助於創造更多的銷售。

But I would say right now, we have an opportunity in front of us to really generate more sales for that core customer in general, which would then help lift our total credit revenue as we move forward. But obviously, in the guide, we're looking at this being a little bit better than what we had seen from a total sales perspective X the SDA shift.

但我想說，現在我們面前有機會真正為核心客戶創造更多的銷售額，這將有助於我們在未來提高總信用收入。但顯然，在指南中，我們認為這比我們從整體銷售角度 X SDA 轉變所看到的情況要好一些。

We're out of time for questions today. This will conclude today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, you may now disconnect.

今天我們已經沒有時間回答問題了。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。