KKR Real Estate Finance Trust Inc (KREF) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the KKR Real Estate Finance Trust Inc. Second Quarter 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Jack Switala. Please go ahead.

早上好，歡迎參加 KKR 房地產金融信託公司 2023 年第二季度財務業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意此事件正在被記錄。我現在想把會議交給傑克·斯維塔拉。請繼續。

Great. Thanks, operator, and welcome to the KKR Estate Finance Trust Earnings Call for the Second Quarter of 2023. As the operator mentioned, this is Jack Switala. Today, I'm joined on the call by our CEO, Matt Salem; our President and COO, Patrick Mattson; and our CFO, Kendra Decious.

偉大的。感謝操作員，歡迎參加 KKR 房地產金融信託 2023 年第二季度收益電話會議。正如操作員提到的，我是 Jack Switala。今天，我們的首席執行官馬特·塞勒姆 (Matt Salem) 加入了我的電話會議。我們的總裁兼首席運營官 Patrick Mattson；以及我們的首席財務官 Kendra Decious。

I'd like to remind everyone that we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures on the call, which are reconciled to GAAP figures in our earnings release and in the supplementary presentation, both of which are available on the Investor Relations portion of our website. This call will also contain certain forward-looking statements which do not guarantee future events or performance. Please refer to our most recently filed 10-Q for cautionary factors related to these statements.

我想提醒大家，我們將在電話會議上提及某些非 GAAP 財務指標，這些指標與我們的收益發布和補充演示文稿中的 GAAP 數據進行了核對，這兩種數據均可在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。本次電話會議還將包含某些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述不保證未來的事件或業績。請參閱我們最近提交的 10-Q，了解與這些聲明相關的警示因素。

Before I turn the call over to Matt, I'll provide a brief recap of our results. For the second quarter of 2023, we reported a GAAP net loss of $25.8 million or negative $0.37 per diluted share, including a CECL provision of $56.3 million or $0.82 per diluted share.

在將電話轉給馬特之前，我將簡要回顧一下我們的結果。 2023 年第二季度，我們報告的 GAAP 淨虧損為 2580 萬美元，即稀釋後每股虧損 0.37 美元，其中包括 CECL 撥備 5630 萬美元，即稀釋後每股虧損 0.82 美元。

Distributable earnings this quarter were $33.1 million or $0.48 per share. Book value per share as of June 30, 2023, was $16.38, a decline of 4.5% quarter-over-quarter. Our CECL allowance increased to $3.30 per share from $2.48 per share last quarter. The increase was primarily due to additional reserves on risk-rated 5 senior office loans as well as macroeconomic conditions.

本季度可分配收益為 3,310 萬美元，即每股 0.48 美元。截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日，每股賬面價值為 16.38 美元，環比下降 4.5%。我們的 CECL 津貼從上季度每股 2.48 美元增加到每股 3.30 美元。這一增長主要是由於風險評級 5 高級辦公貸款的額外準備金以及宏觀經濟狀況。

Finally, in June, we paid a cash dividend of $0.43 per common share with respect to the second quarter. Based on yesterday's closing price, the dividend reflects an annualized yield of 13.5%. With that, I'd now like to turn the call over to Matt.

最後，在 6 月份，我們支付了第二季度每股普通股 0.43 美元的現金股息。根據昨日收盤價計算，股息年化收益率為13.5%。有了這個，我現在想把電話轉給馬特。

Thanks, Jack. Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. KREF generated another quarter of strong distributable earnings of $0.48 per share relative to our $0.43 per share dividend. Distributable earnings continue to benefit from the higher interest rate environment. While higher interest rates are beneficial from an earnings standpoint, this dynamic has created challenges for commercial real estate with little capital markets liquidity and declining asset valuations.

謝謝，傑克。早上好，感謝您今天加入我們。 KREF 又一個季度實現了每股 0.48 美元的強勁可分配收益，而股息為每股 0.43 美元。可分配收益繼續受益於較高的利率環境。雖然從盈利的角度來看，較高的利率是有利的，但這種動態給商業房地產帶來了挑戰，因為資本市場流動性很少，資產估值不斷下降。

We anticipate the current dislocation and associated volatility will persist for the foreseeable future. Regional banks have begun pulling back from the market while larger money center banks remain cautious. Borrowers will need to recapitalize, take equity infusions or sell assets as approximately $1 trillion of commercial real estate loans mature in 2023 and 2024.

我們預計當前的混亂和相關的波動將在可預見的未來持續存在。地區性銀行已開始退出市場，而大型貨幣中心銀行則保持謹慎態度。由於大約 1 萬億美元的商業房地產貸款將於 2023 年和 2024 年到期，借款人將需要進行資本重組、注資或出售資產。

Notably, the CRE lending market is highly competitive for stabilized in-favor assets with insurance capital very active. This environment warrants patience and discipline, with a particular focus on liabilities with duration and durability, considerations we have had front of mind in building KREF.

值得注意的是，商業地產貸款市場對於穩定的熱門資產競爭激烈，保險資金非常活躍。這種環境需要耐心和紀律，特別關注具有期限和持久性的負債，這是我們在構建 KREF 時首先考慮的因素。

Despite the volatility, we have seen progress on a number of initiatives. First, we're in the late stages of a sales process on our risk-rated 5 Philadelphia loan. Second, our borrowers marketing a risk-rated 4 D.C. office asset with initial indications above our $162 million loan amount after significant progress on the business plan. The property is near stabilization having signed over 70,000 square foot of leases year-to-date with total occupancy increasing from the low 60s to the high 80s.

儘管存在波動，我們還是看到許多舉措取得了進展。首先，我們的風險評級為 5 的費城貸款正處於銷售過程的後期階段。其次，我們的借款人在商業計劃取得重大進展後，營銷了一項風險評級為 4 D.C. 的辦公資產，初步跡象表明貸款金額高於我們的 1.62 億美元貸款金額。該物業已接近穩定，今年迄今已簽署超過 70,000 平方英尺的租約，總入住率從 60 多平方英尺增加到 80 多平方英尺。

Third, many of our other office sponsors are signing leases. Excluding the leases I just mentioned, our office assets have signed over 435,000 square feet of leasing year-to-date, including the largest lease in Philadelphia in 18 months.

第三，我們的許多其他辦公室贊助商正在簽署租約。除去我剛才提到的租賃，我們的辦公資產今年迄今已簽訂了超過 435,000 平方英尺的租賃合同，其中包括費城 18 個月以來最大的租賃合同。

Finally, subsequent to quarter end, our Oakland, California office loan was paid down by 68% in connection with the lease modification and PACE financing, and we expect full repayment in the summer of 2024.

最後，在季度末之後，由於租賃修改和 PACE 融資，我們在加利福尼亞州奧克蘭的辦公室貸款已償還 68%，我們預計將在 2024 年夏季全額償還。

KREF's steady focus on building non-mark-to-market financing sources and maintaining high levels of liquidity over the past few years has proved crucial in navigating this kind of environment. We continue to have ample liquidity, ending the quarter with $800 million of availability, including $208 million of cash and $560 million of corporate revolver capacity. We had no new loan originations this quarter as we focused on maintaining a robust liquidity position.

事實證明，過去幾年 KREF 始終致力於建立非按市價計價的融資來源並保持高水平的流動性，這對於應對這種環境至關重要。我們繼續擁有充足的流動性，本季度末可用資金為 8 億美元，其中包括 2.08 億美元的現金和 5.6 億美元的公司循環能力。本季度我們沒有發放新貸款，因為我們專注於維持強勁的流動性狀況。

At quarter end, nearly 70% of our portfolio was comprised of multifamily, industrial, and risk-rated 3 office property types. The multifamily portion of our portfolio continues to perform well with weighted average rent increases of 7.5% year-over-year.

截至季度末，我們投資組合的近 70% 由多戶型、工業型和風險評級 3 種辦公物業類型組成。我們投資組合中的多戶住宅部分繼續表現良好，加權平均租金同比增長 7.5%。

In the second quarter, loan repayments totaled $339 million, creating a net portfolio reduction of $162 million. With floating rate coupons at mid-8% today versus takeout financing closer to 6% for stabilized properties, we are beginning to see borrowers opt for fixed rate refinancings.

第二季度，貸款償還總額為 3.39 億美元，投資組合淨減少 1.62 億美元。目前，浮動利率為 8%，而穩定房產的外購融資利率接近 6%，我們開始看到借款人選擇固定利率再融資。

Beyond KREF, KKR is actively lending across diverse CRE capital base, including bank and insurance SMAs and private debt funds, which allows us to stay active in the market to service our strong client relationships. Our integration with KKR's broader real estate business that manages $65 billion of assets provides us with real-time market knowledge across both debt and equity. Our team of approximately 150 professionals has a strong reputation as a best-in-class capital solutions provider.

除了 KREF 之外，KKR 還在不同的 CRE 資本基礎上積極提供貸款，包括銀行和保險 SMA 以及私人債務基金，這使我們能夠在市場上保持活躍，為我們強大的客戶關係提供服務。我們與 KKR 管理著 650 億美元資產的更廣泛的房地產業務的整合為我們提供了債務和股權的實時市場知識。我們的團隊由大約 150 名專業人士組成，作為一流的資本解決方案提供商享有盛譽。

We also continue to benefit from our long-standing banking relationships as part of the broader KKR franchise. As we have previously stated, we expect the portfolio to turn over modestly in 2023 and anticipate future funding should be offset by future repayments for the full year.

作為更廣泛的 KKR 特許經營權的一部分，我們還繼續受益於我們長期的銀行關係。正如我們之前所說，我們預計投資組合將在 2023 年實現溫和周轉，並預計未來的資金將被未來全年的還款所抵消。

A lack of capital market liquidity continues to challenge the office sector. We increased reserves this quarter, primarily driven by a higher reserve on an existing watch list loan that was downgraded to a risk rating of 5 in the quarter. At this point, we believe we have identified all the potential office issues in our watch list and do not anticipate further ratings migration within the 3-rated office loans. While we are focused on long-term solutions to resolve watch list loans, we are seeking to maximize shareholder value, and where there is a dearth of liquidity, we have tools at our disposal to seek other options, including modifying loans and taking title and managing properties. I expect we'll have various outcomes as we work through the 5-rated loans.

資本市場流動性缺乏繼續給寫字樓行業帶來挑戰。我們本季度增加了準備金，主要是由於現有觀察名單貸款的準備金增加，該貸款在本季度風險評級被下調至 5。至此，我們相信我們已經確定了觀察名單中的所有潛在寫字樓問題，並且預計 3 級寫字樓貸款不會出現進一步的評級遷移。雖然我們專注於解決觀察名單貸款的長期解決方案，但我們正在尋求股東價值最大化，並且在流動性缺乏的情況下，我們可以使用工具來尋求其他選擇，包括修改貸款、取得所有權和管理財產。我預計在處理 5 級貸款時我們會取得不同的結果。

KREF was built for moments like this. We are operating KREF with $800 million of liquidity. 76% of our secured financing as of quarter end was fully non-mark-to-market. We upsized a master repurchase agreement from $240 million to $400 million, all while succeeding and terming out our debt with KREF having no corporate debt or final facility maturities due until late 2025. And we have a robust real estate business with a strong reputation across real estate equity, debt and asset management.

KREF 就是為這樣的時刻而構建的。我們運營的 KREF 擁有 8 億美元的流動資金。截至季度末，我們 76% 的擔保融資完全不按市值計價。我們將主回購協議從 2.4 億美元擴大到 4 億美元，同時成功償還了我們與 KREF 的債務，直到 2025 年底為止，KREF 沒有公司債務或最終貸款到期。我們擁有強大的房地產業務，在房地產股權、債務和資產管理領域享有盛譽。

Finally, it is worth mentioning our managers' ownership of approximately 14% of KREF's shares outstanding today, which we believe is the highest percentage held by a manager in the mortgage REIT sector and demonstrates meaningful alignment between KKR and KREF. With that, I'll turn the call over to Patrick.

最後，值得一提的是，我們的管理人員擁有 KREF 目前已發行股票的約 14%，我們認為這是抵押 REIT 領域管理人員持有的最高比例，並表明 KKR 和 KREF 之間具有有意義的一致性。這樣，我就把電話轉給帕特里克。

Thank you, Matt. Good morning, everyone. I'll begin by providing a CECL reserve and watch list update, followed by our efforts on the capital and liquidity front. This quarter, we recorded a $56 million increase in our CECL reserve for a total reserve of $228 million or 304 basis points of our loan principal balance. This increase in our reserve was due mainly to additional reserves taken on our office loans risk-rated 5, most notably with the addition of the Mountain View, California office loan that had a principal balance of $200 million at June 30.

謝謝你，馬特。大家，早安。我將首先提供 CECL 儲備和觀察名單更新，然後介紹我們在資本和流動性方面的努力。本季度，我們的 CECL 準備金增加了 5600 萬美元，準備金總額達到 2.28 億美元，即貸款本金餘額的 304 個基點。我們準備金的增加主要是由於我們對風險評級為 5 的辦公室貸款採取了額外的準備金，最顯著的是增加了加利福尼亞州山景城的辦公室貸款，該貸款截至 6 月 30 日的本金餘額為 2 億美元。

Approximately 2/3 of our total CECL reserve is held against our 3, 5-rated loans. The Mountain View office loan was initially placed on the watch list in third quarter 2022. The properties are recently renovated, very high-quality Class A office campus but is located in a more challenged leasing market. And we transitioned the asset to non-accrual status in June. At this time, we are considering next steps for the asset, which may include taking ownership as we work with the sponsor on a transition plan. As we have noted in prior quarters, when loans move from a 4 to 5 risk rating, there's generally a meaningful increase in our loss expectation.

我們的 CECL 儲備總額的大約 2/3 是針對我們的 3、5 級貸款持有的。山景城寫字樓貸款最初於 2022 年第三季度被列入觀察名單。這些物業最近經過翻新，是非常高質量的甲級寫字樓園區，但位於更具挑戰性的租賃市場。我們在六月份將該資產轉為非應計狀態。目前，我們正在考慮該資產的後續步驟，其中可能包括在與讚助商合作制定過渡計劃時取得所有權。正如我們在前幾個季度所指出的，當貸款風險評級從 4 級升至 5 級時，我們的損失預期通常會大幅增加。

Regarding our $194 million Minneapolis office, we have decided to modify the loan after testing the sales market. The loan was restructured this quarter with a 2-year term and bifurcated into a $120 million fully funded senior mortgage loan and a $79 million mezzanine note, including $5 million of proceeds for future leasing. The senior loan is current on contractual interest payments through July. This property is well positioned to capture tenant demand as it's one of the best buildings in the market in terms of both quality and location and has leased over 100,000 square feet over the last 18 months.

對於我們價值 1.94 億美元的明尼阿波利斯辦事處，我們在測試銷售市場後決定修改貸款。該貸款於本季度進行了重組，期限為 2 年，分為 1.2 億美元的全額高級抵押貸款和 7,900 萬美元的夾層票據，其中包括 500 萬美元的未來租賃收益。高級貸款按合同利息支付直至七月份。該物業處於捕捉租戶需求的有利位置，因為它是市場上質量和位置最好的建築之一，並且在過去 18 個月內已出租超過 100,000 平方英尺。

The renovated Class A property is nearly 80% leased with adequate cash flow to cover the senior debt service. And as tenants seek space in well-capitalized buildings that can offer attractive leasing packages, we expect further positive momentum. The loan extension ensures the building is capitalized to fund leasing costs as we feel this approach preserves optionality to optimize the value of the asset for KREF.

翻新後的甲級房產近 80% 已出租，現金流充足，可用於償還高級債務。隨著租戶在資本充足的建築中尋求空間，以提供有吸引力的租賃套餐，我們預計將出現進一步的積極勢頭。貸款延期可確保建築物資本化以資助租賃成本，因為我們認為這種方法保留了優化 KREF 資產價值的選擇權。

On the risk-rated 5 Philadelphia office loan, we are working with the existing sponsor on a short sale process in which we will provide financing to a new equity sponsor. If the sale occurs, we'll recognize a loss through our cash metric of distributable earnings.

對於風險評級為 5 的費城辦公樓貸款，我們正在與現有保薦人合作開展賣空流程，在該流程中我們將為新的股權保薦人提供融資。如果出售發生，我們將通過可分配收益的現金指標確認損失。

We added 1 Boston office loan to the watch list this quarter, which is secured by a Class A office located in Downtown Boston on Cambridge Street. The property is currently 90% leased, though given our conservative approach to identifying assets of concern, we downgraded this loan, given the elevated loan-to-value ahead of the loan's initial maturity in first quarter 2024.

本季度我們在觀察名單中添加了 1 筆波士頓辦公室貸款，該貸款由位於波士頓市中心劍橋街的一間 A 級辦公室提供擔保。該房產目前 90% 已出租，但考慮到我們在識別關注資產方面採取保守方法，我們下調了這筆貸款的評級，因為在 2024 年第一季度貸款初始到期之前，貸款價值比有所上升。

Away from the watch list are risk-rated 3 office portfolio, which equates to just under half of the outstanding principal balance of the office segment, continues to perform well and has attractive credit metrics.

觀察名單之外的是風險評級為 3 的寫字樓投資組合，相當於寫字樓部門未償本金餘額的近一半，繼續表現良好，並具有有吸引力的信用指標。

In aggregate, the 7 properties representing these underlying risk-rated 3 office properties are 93% leased with a weighted average debt yield of 8.9% and a median 8.4 years of weighted average lease term remaining. Importantly, as Matt mentioned earlier, we don't foresee any negative ratings migration on our remaining 3-rated office loans.

總體而言，代表這 3 處潛在風險評級辦公樓的 7 處房產的出租率為 93%，加權平均債務收益率為 8.9%，加權平均剩餘租賃期中位數為 8.4 年。重要的是，正如馬特之前提到的，我們預計剩餘的 3 級辦公貸款不會出現任何負面評級遷移。

The average risk rating of the portfolio was 3.2, consistent with the prior quarter and 83% of our portfolio is risk-rated 3 or better. Our portfolio is 99% floating rate. And in the second quarter, we completed our transition to SOFR, and now all our floating rate assets and liabilities are benchmarked to the market convention rate.

投資組合的平均風險評級為 3.2，與上一季度一致，我們 83% 的投資組合風險評級為 3 或更高。我們的投資組合是99%的浮動利率。第二季度，我們完成了向 SOFR 的過渡，現在我們所有的浮動利率資產和負債都以市場慣例利率為基準。

One of KREF's key differentiators is the composition of its financing structure. 76% of our outstanding financing remains fully non-mark-to-market, and the remaining balance is marked-to-credit only. We continue to optimize and in the second quarter, we upsized a $240 million master repurchase agreement to $400 million.

KREF 的主要區別之一是其融資結構的組成。我們的未償融資中 76% 完全不按市價計價，其餘餘額僅按信用計價。我們繼續優化，在第二季度，我們將 2.4 億美元的主回購協議擴大到 4 億美元。

Excluding match-term secured financing, there are no corporate debt or final facility maturities until fourth quarter 2025. KREF is well capitalized with a debt-to-equity ratio of 2.2x and total look-through leverage ratio of 4.0x as of quarter end. As of June 30, KREF had $208 million of cash and $560 million of corporate revolver capacity available. The resiliency of our financing structure, coupled with our independence from the public capital markets, buffers KREF on the liability side during times of capital markets volatility. Thank you for joining us today. Now we're happy to take your questions.

不包括匹配期限擔保融資，到 2025 年第四季度為止，沒有公司債務或最終融資到期。截至季度末，KREF 資本充足，債務股本比率為 2.2 倍，總透視槓桿率為 4.0 倍。截至 6 月 30 日，KREF 擁有 2.08 億美元的現金和 5.6 億美元的公司左輪手槍產能。我們的融資結構具有彈性，加上我們獨立於公共資本市場，在資本市場波動期間可以緩衝 KREF 的負債。感謝您今天加入我們。現在我們很高興回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) The first question today comes from Rick Shane with JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）今天的第一個問題來自摩根大通的 Rick Shane。

Though 1 disadvantage of being first is I'm still kind of pulling some data to -- for the background on this question so if I trip some things up, I apologize. I'd like to talk a little bit about the Minneapolis transaction. Obviously, you cut the spread on the deal on the floating rate portion by about 150 bps. The PIK component on the mezz and this is, I think, the thing that surprises me, is fixed rate, and it's actually below the coupon on the senior.

儘管成為第一的一個缺點是我仍然需要提取一些數據來了解這個問題的背景，所以如果我出錯了，我深表歉意。我想談談明尼阿波利斯的交易。顯然，您將浮動利率部分交易的利差削減了約 150 個基點。中間層的 PIK 組件是固定利率，我認為這讓我感到驚訝，而且它實際上低於高級層的優惠券。

So I guess a couple of things. Did the sponsor put in additional equity? And to the extent this deal was restructured and extended, where is the upside for you? What is the optionality that if this is presumably sort of buy the sponsor additional time in order to sell the property, where do you guys participate in the benefit of that transaction?

所以我猜有幾件事。發起人是否投入了額外股本？如果這筆交易得到重組和延長，對您來說有什麼好處？如果這大概是為贊助商購買額外的時間以出售房產，那麼你們有什麼選擇權，你們從哪裡參與交易的好處呢？

Rick, I'll take the question, it's Patrick. So to answer specifically, no, there was no additional sponsor equity into this deal. As we've said and as you know, this is a cash flowing asset. So one of the benefits that we have here is that we've got an asset that is nearly 80% leased. It's got cash flow that can support debt service and the structuring really allowed us to play the asset forward here, continue to finance it at an attractive basis, gives clearly the sponsor some optionality here but also gives us optionality to not sell into what's obviously not a great capital markets environment.

里克，我來回答這個問題，我是帕特里克。所以具體來說，沒有，這筆交易沒有額外的讚助商股權。正如我們所說且如您所知，這是一項現金流資產。因此，我們在這裡獲得的好處之一是我們擁有近 80% 的資產已出租。它的現金流可以支持償債，而且結構確實使我們能夠在這裡發揮資產的作用，繼續以有吸引力的基礎為其提供融資，明確地為贊助商提供了一些選擇權，但也讓我們可以選擇不在顯然不是很好的資本市場環境中出售資產。

So we're able to play it forward and look for a better time to sort of exit the asset. At the same time, we can continue to work with the sponsor, continue to maintain leasing at this asset, like I said, look for a better capital markets exit.

因此，我們能夠向前推進並尋找更好的時機來退出該資產。同時我們可以繼續和發起人合作，繼續維持這個資產的租賃，就像我說的，尋找更好的資本市場退出。

Got it. Patrick, so 2 follow-ups to that. One is that you guys have made the comment that it is covered on a cash flow basis but that's at the -- on the senior side at the $120 million. Would it have been covered at the prior coupon at the prior note size or just shrinking the note and shrinking the spread put you in that situation?

知道了。帕特里克，所以有兩個後續行動。其一是，你們評論說，它是以現金流為基礎的，但那是在高級方面，1.2 億美元。它是否會以先前的票據尺寸以先前的優惠券覆蓋，或者只是縮小票據並縮小點差讓您陷入這種情況？

And then the other side of this is, and this is what I was trying to look up, was the loan on non-accrual before so you will actually see a pickup in reported interest income because this loan goes from non-accrual to accrual even if it's smaller at a tighter spread?

另一方面，這就是我試圖查明的，之前的貸款是非應計的，所以你實際上會看到報告的利息收入有所增加，因為這筆貸款從非應計變為應計，即使它的利差較小？

I'll take the second part first, Rick. You're right and observant there. We will see some pickup on this asset as we move it off of non-accrual and this senior now will be a performing loan. And so you'll see that flow through our net interest. The asset prior to the restructuring was very close to a 1x DSCR. Clearly, with the recut here and the senior loan being smaller and at a lower coupon, that allows for excess cash to be captured within the -- within this asset and that cash then can be utilized very proactively to continuing the leasing efforts here.

我先看第二部分，瑞克。你是對的，而且很細心。隨著我們將其從非應計利息中剔除，我們將看到該資產有所回升，並且該高級貸款現在將成為不良貸款。所以你會看到我們的淨利息的流動。重組前的資產非常接近 1 倍 DSCR。顯然，隨著這裡的削減和優先貸款規模較小且息票較低，這允許在該資產內捕獲多餘的現金，然後可以非常主動地利用這些現金來繼續這裡的租賃工作。

Got it. And I apologize to my peers, I'm going to ask 1 last question. Is there a -- will there be a catch-up in the third quarter related to the reversal of non-accrued principal that was captured running through the interest line or anything like that? I just want to make sure there's no noise that we need to be thinking about.

知道了。我向我的同事道歉，我要問最後一個問題。第三季度是否會出現與通過利息額度或類似情況捕獲的非應計本金逆轉相關的追趕？我只是想確保沒有我們需要考慮的噪音。

No, there's no recapture.

不，沒有重新奪回的可能。

The next question comes from Sarah Barcomb with BTIG.

下一個問題來自 BTIG 的 Sarah Barcomb。

So we saw both the Boston office added to the watch list and the Mountain View office, see that downgrade there. Both of those were originated post-COVID. And I'm hoping you can speak to the issues cropping up in that post-COVID office bucket, just given we've seen more issues, of course, in the pre-COVID bucket but starting to see some of those issues crop up. Can you talk about how expectations have changed for that group since, call it, early 2021 to now?

因此，我們看到波士頓辦事處和山景城辦事處都被添加到觀察名單中，看到那裡的降級。這兩者都起源於新冠疫情之後。我希望你能談談在新冠疫情之後的辦公室中出現的問題，當然，在新冠疫情之前我們已經看到了更多的問題，但也開始看到其中一些問題的出現​​。您能否談談自 2021 年初到現在對該群體的期望發生了怎樣的變化？

Sarah, it's Matt. Thank you for the question and for joining us this morning. I can try to take that. I don't think that whether it's pre-COVID or post-COVID, the properties or the loans are experiencing anything particularly different. I think it's just an overall market illiquidity and fundamental softness as well as we just adjust to work-from-home and what the real demand is on office space.

莎拉，我是馬特。感謝您提出問題並今天早上加入我們。我可以嘗試接受。我認為無論是在新冠疫情之前還是之後，房產或貸款都沒有發生任何特別不同的情況。我認為這只是整體市場流動性不足和基本面疲軟以及我們剛剛適應在家工作以及對辦公空間的真正需求。

So it's the same underlying theme that's impacting when -- either when a loan was made pre- or post-COVID. I would say our bar for lending on office certainly was raised materially when we think about the world post-COVID, and maybe that's what you're highlighting here a little bit.

因此，無論是在新冠疫情之前還是之後發放貸款時，影響的根本主題都是相同的。我想說，當我們思考新冠疫情后的世界時，我們的辦公室貸款門檻肯定大幅提高，也許這就是您在這裡強調的一點。

The Boston asset was -- wasn't really a transitional asset. It was a fully leased asset. It's 90% leased today so it was almost a stabilized office building and still is. It's just a question of value now as with the market illiquidity and the cap rates have moved out.

波士頓資產並不是真正的過渡資產。這是一項完全租賃的資產。如今，它的 90% 已出租，因此它幾乎是一座穩定的辦公樓，而且仍然如此。現在這只是一個價值問題，因為市場流動性不足，上限利率已經取消。

The Mountain View one is a little bit different. That's clearly a lease-up strategy from origination. But just given the overall quality of that particular asset, this is not going to be subject to some of the same concerns around occupancy as we may have on some of the more generic office space in the market, this asset will 100% get leased someday. It's a very high-quality asset. It's just going to come down to how long that takes and what's the lease rate at that point in time. So hopefully, that gives you just a little bit more context to that question.

山景房有點不同。這顯然是一種從一開始就採取的租賃策略。但考慮到該特定資產的整體質量，這不會像我們在市場上一些更通用的辦公空間上可能遇到的那樣，受到有關入住率的一些同樣的擔憂，該資產有一天將 100% 被出租。這是一項非常優質的資產。這只是取決於需要多長時間以及當時的租賃率是多少。希望這能為您提供有關該問題的更多背景信息。

Okay, yes. And then maybe just to move over to the other side of the balance sheet for a moment here. I was hoping you could speak more to how you're thinking about liquidity and capital raising in the current environment, depending on the messaging that we hear at the Fed meeting on Wednesday. Just given the amount of office exposure that's still on repo, combined with the growing watch list especially for assets where we've seen more of a valuation reset and where KREF has lower net equity.

好吧，是的。然後也許只是暫時轉移到資產負債表的另一邊。我希望您能根據我們在周三的美聯儲會議上聽到的信息，更多地談談您對當前環境下流動性和融資的看法。考慮到仍在回購的寫字樓風險敞口數量，再加上觀察名單不斷增加，特別是對於我們看到更多估值重置以及 KREF 淨資產較低的資產。

And you also mentioned in the prepared remarks that the money center banks are pretty cautious. So I'm just trying to gauge how you're thinking about your liquidity needs going forward. At what point would you tap the corporate debt markets, the Term Loan B markets? How are you thinking about that?

您在準備好的發言中還提到，貨幣中心銀行非常謹慎。所以我只是想了解一下您如何看待未來的流動性需求。您會在什麼時候進入公司債務市場、定期貸款 B 市場？你覺得怎麼樣？

Yes, I can take that. It's Matt again. I'd say first of all, we have ample liquidity so anything we would do would be more opportunistic in nature. It's not -- we're not looking at the market saying, we absolutely need to do something. There's really no immediate need for liquidity right now. You can see we have $800 million of liquidity, so there's ample liquidity there.

是的，我可以接受。又是馬特。我首先要說的是，我們擁有充足的流動性，因此我們所做的任何事情本質上都更加機會主義。這並不是——我們沒有通過市場來表示，我們絕對需要做點什麼。目前確實沒有立即需要流動性。你可以看到我們有8億美元的流動性，所以流動性充足。

I'd say number two, we're going to continue to monitor all these markets [we've] recovered along with the broader markets. So to the extent we find something attractive, we could certainly look at that. The 1 thing that's in the back of our mind is we did pay off our convert this past quarter. It was small but we paid it off. So if there was an opportunity to turn that out at some point in time down the road, we may look at a potential opportunity to do that. But overall, I'd say we're just kind of watching the market and waiting for a moment where it could be attractive, but really no immediate need.

我想說第二，我們將繼續監控所有這些市場（我們已經）與更廣泛的市場一起復蘇。因此，只要我們發現一些有吸引力的東西，我們當然可以考慮它。我們腦海中浮現的一件事是，我們在上個季度確實還清了我們的皈依者。雖然金額很小，但我們還是付清了。因此，如果有機會在未來的某個時間點實現這一點，我們可能會尋找一個潛在的機會來做到這一點。但總的來說，我想說我們只是在觀察市場並等待它可能具有吸引力的時刻，但實際上並沒有立即需要。

The next question comes from Jade Rahmani with KBW.

下一個問題來自 KBW 的 Jade Rahmani。

And good to see some positive updates on the office side. So the first question would be how far along through the scoping of credit risks do you feel we are? Would you say halfway is a fair assessment or much more long than that? I think you did take pains to mention that on the risk 3-rated office loans, you don't expect any negative surprises and that portfolio is well leased with long duration. However, we haven't touched on multifamily, hotels, industrial and even life sciences, where we've seen a few hiccups. So can you just comment on that broad question?

很高興看到辦公室方面的一些積極更新。因此，第一個問題是，您認為我們在信用風險範圍界定方面走了多遠？您認為一半是公平的評估還是比這更長的時間？我認為您確實煞費苦心地提到，對於風險 3 級辦公貸款，您預計不會出現任何負面意外，而且該投資組合的租賃期限較長。然而，我們還沒有涉及多戶住宅、酒店、工業甚至生命科學，在這些領域我們已經看到了一些問題。那麼你能對這個廣泛的問題發表評論嗎？

Sure, Jade. It's Matt, I'll take that. Thank you for joining. Well, let's start with the office because obviously, that's much further along. I think with the office side of it, we feel like we are towards the end of certainly identifying where there could be potential issues. I don't think all the 4-rated loans end up migrating to 5 and this is a question of what happens with some of those as we continue to kind of walk down those -- the path there.

當然，傑德。是馬特，我會接受的。感謝您的加入。好吧，讓我們從辦公室開始，因為顯然，那是更遠的地方。我認為在辦公室方面，我們覺得我們即將確定可能存在潛在問題的地方。我不認為所有 4 級貸款最終都會遷移到 5 級，問題是當我們繼續沿著這些道路走下去時，其中一些貸款會發生什麼。

As it relates to the 5-rated loans, that feels like we've got pretty sizable reserves against those and appropriate reserves. The office, I think we've been pretty transparent. I think we've been a little bit more front-footed than some of our peers in identifying issues and reserving loans. So I think for us, we're -- we feel pretty far down the road, not finished but pretty far down the road on the office side.

由於它涉及 5 級貸款，感覺我們有相當大的準備金來應對這些貸款和適當的準備金。我認為辦公室一直相當透明。我認為我們在發現問題和保留貸款方面比一些同行更先發製人。所以我認為對我們來說，我們感覺還很遙遠，還沒有完成，但在辦公室方面已經很遙遠了。

As it relates to the other property types, I mean, it's hard to say. It's obviously, could be early because we haven't seen any issues there. And clearly, real estate values have changed across the board with the increased cost of capital. But the valuation changes have not been anywhere near as severe than what we see on the office side, which obviously is getting hit from fundamentals as well as higher cost of capital as well as capital markets and liquidity, so it's a little bit of a perfect storm there.

我的意思是，由於它與其他財產類型相關，所以很難說。顯然，這可能還為時過早，因為我們還沒有看到任何問題。顯然，隨著資本成本的增加，房地產價值發生了全面變化。但估值變化並沒有我們在寫字樓方面看到的那麼嚴重，寫字樓顯然受到了基本面、資本成本以及資本市場和流動性上升的打擊，所以這有點像一場完美風暴。

So we're watching the portfolio very closely. But even if you look beyond our broader portfolio outside of KREF, we've got almost a $30 billion mortgage portfolio across all the different accounts that we service or manage. Really we haven't seen any issues outside of office. So I think a lot of those property types are well positioned, and that's not to say that there won't be issues down the road because the cost -- the debt burden is quite high today. And so that will impact certain sponsors.

因此，我們正在非常密切地關注投資組合。但即使您超越 KREF 之外更廣泛的投資組合，我們在我們服務或管理的所有不同賬戶中也擁有近 300 億美元的抵押貸款投資組合。事實上，我們在辦公室之外沒有看到任何問題。所以我認為很多這樣的房產類型都處於有利位置，但這並不是說未來不會出現問題，因為成本——今天的債務負擔相當高。這將影響某些贊助商。

But I don't think even if you have issues, you're going to see the level -- I would doubt you'll see a level of severity that we're seeing on the office side, which again have kind of caught that perfect storm. So it's a hard question to answer but we're certainly monitoring it, and we haven't seen anything in our broader portfolio or KREF's portfolio yet on -- outside of office.

但我認為，即使你遇到問題，你也不會看到問題的嚴重程度——我懷疑你會看到我們在辦公室方面看到的嚴重程度，辦公室方面再次陷入了完美風暴。所以這是一個很難回答的問題，但我們肯定會對其進行監控，而且我們在我們更廣泛的投資組合或 KREF 的投資組合中還沒有看到任何東西——在辦公室之外。

And on the multifamily side, you mentioned the rent growth, 7.5%. I mean we have seen multifamily performance being pretty resilient so far. Nevertheless, for those loans to be able to successfully refinance, we're seeing some interesting dynamics where lenders are providing preferreds in order to have the LTV meet other senior lender requirements because the preferred gets counted as equity. Do you think that the multifamily deals can stomach a 6.5% or 6% type interest rate?

在多戶住宅方面，您提到了租金增長，7.5%。我的意思是，到目前為止，我們已經看到多戶住宅的表現相當有彈性。儘管如此，為了使這些貸款能夠成功再融資，我們看到了一些有趣的動態，貸款人提供優先權，以使貸款價值比滿足其他高級貸款人的要求，因為優先權被計為股權。您認為多戶住宅交易可以承受 6.5% 或 6% 的利率嗎？

I think there's a timing issue there. And the question is, what's the long-term tenure rate? I think there's a lot of sponsors today that are looking at their multifamily assets and trying to basically bridge the period of time from now. So when you get into a little bit lower interest rate environment, at which point they're going to feel pretty good about the value of their asset.

我認為這裡存在一個時間問題。問題是，長期保有率是多少？我認為今天有很多贊助商正在關注他們的多戶資產，並試圖從現在開始基本上彌合這段時間。因此，當你進入稍微低一點的利率環境時，他們會對自己的資產價值感到非常滿意。

And the question is, does your sponsor have the liquidity to bridge that gap? And there's going to certainly be business plans that are in the middle and they're in middle of renovating and upgrading units that people will get caught in this a little bit, it's my view. But I'd say for at least our portfolio within KREF, like we feel pretty good about it. It's mostly Class A real estate. It's in liquid markets.

問題是，你的讚助商是否有足夠的流動性來彌補這一差距？我認為，肯定會有一些商業計劃處於中間，他們正處於翻新和升級單位的中間，人們會有點陷入其中，這是我的觀點。但我想說，至少對於我們在 KREF 內的投資組合來說，我們感覺非常好。大部分是A級房地產。它位於流動市場。

And the 1 thing I -- it always surprises me about the multi sector is the amount of liquidity there. There is a tremendous amount of liquidity on both the debt and the equity side. And I think that propped up values a little bit and muted some of the issues that may be under the surface on the multi side. So I think to answer your question directly, I think that, that cost of capital is more temporary, and so people are thinking about it on a more intermediate basis.

關於多部門，我總是感到驚訝的一件事是那裡的流動性數量。債務和股權方面都有大量的流動性。我認為這稍微支撐了價值觀，並淡化了多邊層面可能隱藏的一些問題。所以我想直接回答你的問題，我認為資本成本是暫時的，所以人們會在更中間的基礎上考慮它。

The next question comes from Don Fandetti with Wells Fargo.

下一個問題來自富國銀行的 Don Fandetti。

I was wondering if you're seeing any opportunistic capital forming in the industry for office, whether it's on the equity or debt side. I mean obviously, sentiment has been extremely negative. Is that still the case or are you sort of seeing some green shoots?

我想知道您是否看到辦公室行業中存在機會主義資本，無論是股權還是債務方面。我的意思是，顯然，人們的情緒非常消極。情況仍然如此，還是您看到了一些萌芽？

Don, it's Matt. I can answer that. I would say it's limited. I think part of the challenge with office is, it's a large property type on -- and most investors, whether you're a debt investor or an equity investor, you have significant exposure to it. And everyone is kind of dealing with their existing assets and reserving whatever capital they have [with those.]

唐，是馬特。我可以回答這個問題。我想說這是有限的。我認為辦公室面臨的部分挑戰是，它是一種大型房地產類型，而大多數投資者，無論您是債務投資者還是股權投資者，都對它有很大的敞口。每個人都在處理他們現有的資產並保留他們擁有的任何資本。

And it should be a pretty extraordinary investing opportunity, certainly given the illiquidity that we're seeing in the market today. But I think we're seeing really large institutional capital being raised around office.

考慮到我們今天市場上的流動性不足，這應該是一個非常難得的投資機會。但我認為我們看到圍繞辦公室籌集了大量的機構資本。

The next question comes from Stephen Laws with Raymond James.

下一個問題來自斯蒂芬·勞斯和雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Patrick, would love to follow up. I think you made a comment on the short sale in the Philly office. Can you maybe help us get a gauge of how much the specific reserve -- of the reserve, it's roughly 2/3 on the 5-rated loans kind of applies to that? And is that a 3Q event or sometime over the second half as far as timing goes?

帕特里克，很樂意跟進。我想您對費城辦事處的賣空活動發表了評論。您能否幫助我們衡量一下具體儲備金的多少——大約是 5 級貸款的 2/3？就時間安排而言，這是第三季度的活動還是下半年的某個時間？

We didn't give a specific number there, but if you look at what's implied by the numbers, you're talking about loss expectations that are potentially north of 25% on that asset and the other 3-rated assets. We're obviously still working through that sales process and so I want to be mindful of that.

我們沒有給出具體數字，但如果您看看這些數字所暗示的內容，您會發現該資產和其他 3 級資產的損失預期可能超過 25%。顯然我們仍在完成銷售流程，所以我想注意這一點。

I think in terms of the timing, it's difficult to predict right now. On one hand, it feels like things are progressing well. And as Matt said, we're in the later stages here so there certainly could be a 3Q event. But in this kind of market for these types of transactions to slip, a couple of weeks or a month is certainly not impossible. And so that's why we're seeing could be a 3Q event but we would certainly expect it to happen by 4Q.

我認為就時間而言，現在很難預測。一方面，感覺事情進展順利。正如馬特所說，我們正處於後期階段，因此肯定可能會有第三季度的活動。但在這種市場中，此類交易下滑幾週或一個月當然不是不可能的。這就是為什麼我們看到這可能是第三季度的事件，但我們當然預計它會在第四季度發生。

Great. And repayments came in a little higher than I was looking for, a bit higher than I was looking for actually. But can you talk to that a little bit? It seems like you reiterated today kind of expect modest repayments over the year, which is consistent with last quarter. But it looks like maybe a multifamily asset in Florida, a small resi condo loan, I think, in Manhattan. But can you talk about what repaid during the quarter and any trends we can read into that?

偉大的。還款額比我想要的要高一點，比我實際想要的要高一點。但你能談談這一點嗎？看來您今天重申了預計全年適度還款的預期，這與上季度一致。但它看起來可能是佛羅里達州的多戶資產，我認為是曼哈頓的小型住宅公寓貸款。但您能談談本季度的回報以及我們可以從中解讀到的任何趨勢嗎？

Sure, Stephen. You're right. And we did have our condo asset, which is near Hudson Yards, had its last units sell and that asset paid off. There were 3 other multis that actually paid off. They were paid off through a fixed-rate refinancing. And so we're continuing to see as some of these assets, in particular, on the multifamily side reach on their business plans, a real opportunity to take coupons that are in the 8% to 9% when you look at the margin plus the SOFR index and refinance at a rate that's closer to 6%. So we saw some of that activity.

當然，斯蒂芬。你說得對。我們確實擁有靠近哈德遜廣場的公寓資產，其最後的單位已售出並且該資產得到了回報。還有另外 3 個多重項目確實得到了回報。他們通過固定利率再融資獲得了償付。因此，我們繼續認為，隨著其中一些資產，特別是在多戶家庭方面實現其業務計劃，當你查看保證金加上 SOFR 指數並以接近 6% 的利率進行再融資時，這是一個獲得 8% 至 9% 優惠券的真正機會。所以我們看到了一些這樣的活動。

And then we had a smaller number of partial repayments on some of our industrial loans, where there were -- where they're asset sales. And I guess 1 thing I would just highlight, Stephen, as we think about those repayments, those multifamily loans that paid off were certainly risk-rated 3. But if you recall, at 1 point, the condo asset was a risk-rated 4 asset and obviously, clearly was paid out at par here. So a pretty good quarter in terms of repayments.

然後，我們的一些工業貸款的部分償還數量較少，其中有資產出售。我想我要強調的一件事是，斯蒂芬，當我們考慮這些還款時，那些還清的多戶貸款肯定是風險評級為 3 的。但如果你還記得，在 1 點上，公寓資產是風險評級為 4 的資產，顯然，這裡顯然是按面值支付的。因此，就還款而言，這是一個相當不錯的季度。

I think as we look forward, we still expect the back half of the year to be muted in terms of repayment expectations. And if we see those, I would think that they're more toward the fourth quarter as opposed to third quarter.

我認為，展望未來，我們仍然預計下半年的還款預期將較低。如果我們看到這些，我認為它們更傾向於第四季度，而不是第三季度。

Great. Lastly, Matt, what are you guys looking forward to think about new originations here? I mean, it seems like you feel pretty good about having identified problems in your office and feel good about what's currently remaining 3-rated. .

偉大的。最後，馬特，你們對這裡的新起源有何期待？我的意思是，您似乎對發現辦公室中的問題感覺良好，並且對目前仍處於 3 級的情況感覺良好。 。

Are you looking for rates to top out? Is it more macro? Or what are the deals look like that you're looking at the past couple of months you've decided not to do? And kind of what do you need to see improve to start doing those?

您是否正在尋找最高的利率？是不是更宏觀一些？或者過去幾個月您考慮過哪些交易而決定不做？您需要在哪些方面進行改進才能開始這樣做？

Sure. It's a very interesting lending environment today, so I'd say we're very much looking forward to being able to get back into the market and create some new opportunities in the portfolio. I would say really, it comes down to just working through some of these watch list items and just making sure that we get through them, we find a home, we get that equity returning to working. And then it will come down to that.

當然。今天的貸款環境非常有趣，所以我想說，我們非常期待能夠重返市場並在投資組合中創造一些新的機會。我想說的是，歸根結底，就是要完成其中的一些觀察清單項目，並確保我們完成這些項目，我們找到一個家，我們讓股權重新發揮作用。然後就歸結為這一點。

And outside of that, I think once we're through that moment, then as we get repayments, we can go out and reinvest it. So that's really part of the reason why we have been more aggressive with dealing with some of these issues, identifying them, trying to get through them is because we very much want to make sure that we have the opportunity to take advantage of the current market environment. But it's going to come down really to the existing portfolio because I think what we're seeing in the market today is very attractive.

除此之外，我認為一旦我們度過了那一刻，當我們獲得還款時，我們就可以出去進行再投資。因此，這就是我們更加積極地處理其中一些問題、識別它們、試圖解決它們的部分原因，因為我們非常希望確保我們有機會利用當前的市場環境。但這實際上取決於現有的投資組合，因為我認為我們今天在市場上看到的非常有吸引力。

The next question comes from Arren Cyganovich with Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Arren Cyganovich。

I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the West Hollywood loan that you modified in June. What was the reasoning behind that and the outcome there?

我想知道您是否可以談談您在六月份修改的西好萊塢貸款。其背後的原因和結果是什麼？

Sure. Arren, it's Patrick. I'll take that one. The real starting point here was just the interest rate movement and the cap renewal that had to be executed. When we did the modification, as part of the modification, the sponsor agreed to put additional capital into the asset. So in addition to buying a cap, added additional capital to help cover debt service, we agreed as part of the loan structure to add some additional capital as well that will help carry this asset through its initial maturity date, and as part of that modification, entered into some profit participation above our basis.

當然。阿倫，是帕特里克。我會接受那個。這裡真正的起點只是利率變動和必須執行的上限更新。當我們進行修改時，作為修改的一部分，發起人同意向該資產投入額外資本。因此，除了購買上限、增加額外資本以幫助償還債務之外，我們還同意作為貸款結構的一部分增加一些額外資本，這將有助於使該資產度過其初始到期日，並且作為修改的一部分，我們在我們的基礎之上參與了一些利潤參與。

So net-net, it puts the asset on sort of better footing for this current rate environment. The asset from an occupancy standpoint continues to operate in the sort of mid-80s here. And that's something, obviously, we're watching closely. But at the end of the day, this is a really high-quality asset in a great location, and we feel really good about our basis here.

因此，它使該資產在當前的利率環境中處於更好的基礎。從入住率的角度來看，該資產在 80 年代中期仍在運營。顯然，這是我們正在密切關注的事情。但歸根結底，這是一個位置優越、真正優質的資產，我們對我們在這裡的基礎感覺非常好。

The next question comes from Steve Delaney with JMP Securities.

下一個問題來自 JMP 證券公司的 Steve Delaney。

I was prepared when we started the Q&A or actually starting the call to ask you about the 3 5-rated loans and if you saw any potential solution short of an actual foreclosure, and lo and behold, you've showed us 2 of the 3, you've worked something out, so congrats on that progress.

當我們開始問答或實際開始打電話詢問您有關 3 項 5 級貸款的情況時，我已經做好準備，如果您看到除了實際取消抵押品贖回權之外的任何潛在解決方案，您瞧，您已經向我們展示了 3 項中的 2 項，您已經解決了一些問題，所以恭喜您取得了進展。

Just curious if we were to look at this, I know these are moving pieces, right, both on the sale of Philly and the restructuring of Minneapolis. But maybe in a general -- from a general perspective, as you look at those 2 transactions and the accounting as you move forward, you have specific reserves, I assume, on all these 5-rated loans. Do you think that your resolutions, as you model them out, your specific reserve will be sufficient to kind of net you out flat once those 2 transactions are recorded?

只是好奇，如果我們看看這個，我知道這些都是令人感動的事情，對吧，無論是出售費城還是重組明尼阿波利斯。但也許總的來說——從一般的角度來看，當你查看這兩項交易和前進的會計時，我認為你對所有這些 5 級貸款都有特定的準備金。你認為你的決議，當你模擬它們時，你的特定儲備足以在這兩筆交易被記錄後讓你淨利歸零嗎？

Steven, it's Matt. Thank you for joining us. Sure, yes I mean, yes, I think that when we look at the sale and the modification, we think these reserves kind of match the current value expectations. I think that's a question you're trying to get through is I think we're appropriately reserved on those 2 assets.

史蒂文，是馬特。感謝您加入我們。當然，是的，我的意思是，是的，我認為當我們考慮銷售和修改時，我們認為這些儲備與當前的價值預期相符。我認為這是你試圖解決的一個問題，我認為我們對這兩項資產進行了適當的保留。

Exactly. And when those -- obviously, whatever reserve you had and whatever -- will there be any kind of accounting issue that we -- we all struggle with this, the GAAP and then the distributable. Do you think these transactions, will there be a distributable impact that the analysts that we should be thinking about with respect to model -- modeling? Jack, we can follow up off-line. I'm just trying to understand and get it out there that this could be -- is this going to be an issue with respect to distributable beyond the fact that you're well reserved on CECL?

確切地。當這些——顯然，無論你有什麼儲備等等——是否會出現任何類型的會計問題時，我們——我們都在努力解決這個問題，公認會計原則，然後是可分配的。您認為這些交易是否會產生我們應該考慮的分析師在模型方面的可分配影響？傑克，我們可以線下跟進。我只是想了解並弄清楚這可能是——除了您在 CECL 上充分保留這一事實之外，這是否會成為可分發方面的一個問題？

Yes. So I mean, if we have a loss, the CECL is going to translate through to D/E. I think we mentioned that on the prepared remarks as well. So the most obvious one is if we get to a sale on Philly, our CECL reserve, where we think we're appropriate reserved will flush through, if you will, D/E at sale. So we'll see what we get to. But yes, at some point in time, you'd expect some of these CECL reserves to be realized.

是的。所以我的意思是，如果我們遭受損失，CECL 將轉化為 D/E。我想我們在準備好的發言中也提到了這一點。因此，最明顯的一個是，如果我們在費城進行銷售，我們的 CECL 儲備金（我們認為我們適當的儲備金）將在銷售時衝入 D/E（如果您願意的話）。所以我們會看看我們能得到什麼。但是，是的，在某個時間點，您會期望其中一些 CECL 儲備能夠實現。

Great. Now in the case like that you actually take a property back, let's say, you foreclose on Mountain View. At that point, I assume and you're going to hold it and you're going to operate it, optimize it for a year to couple of years, that REO would come on at fair value. So if you actually do foreclose, convert it from a loan to REO, is that also a situation where the REO would be booked at current fair value that could trigger a realized loss?

偉大的。現在，在這種情況下，您實際上收回了財產，比方說，您取消了山景城的贖回權。到那時，我假設你將持有它並運營它，優化它一年到幾年，REO 將以公允價值出現。因此，如果您實際上取消抵押品贖回權，將其從貸款轉換為 REO，這是否也是 REO 將以當前公允價值入賬的情況，從而可能引發已實現的損失？

Yes, yes. If we went to title, like you said, we would value the asset and we would take a realized loss on the difference between our basis and that value.

是的是的。如果我們像你說的那樣去獲得產權，我們會對資產進行估值，並且我們會根據我們的基礎和該價值之間的差額來承擔已實現的損失。

Okay, great. That's helpful. And I guess this is not a question but maybe a request. So as these situations play out with respect to actual closings of these anticipated, it'd be great if you guys could consider an 8-K or maybe a press release, just alerting the analysts and the investment community that, that transaction is now closed.

好的，太好了。這很有幫助。我想這不是一個問題，而可能是一個請求。因此，當這些情況與預期的實際結束相關時，如果你們可以考慮發布 8-K 或新聞稿，只是提醒分析師和投資界該交易現已結束，那就太好了。

And therefore, like in 3Q, Matt mentioned, could it happen in 3Q or [is it going to] slide to 4Q? We'd love to have the opportunity to tweak so that we're not out of line, if you will, with respect to where you see your distributable comment, your D/E. So thanks for -- I'll just leave it there, and thank you very much for your comments.

因此，就像第三季度一樣，馬特提到，它會在第三季度發生還是會滑到第四季度？如果您願意的話，我們很樂意有機會進行調整，以便我們不會在您看到可分發評論、D/E 的位置上出格。所以謝謝——我就把它留在那裡，非常感謝你的評論。

(Operator Instructions) The next question comes from Jade Rahmani with KBW.

（操作員說明）下一個問題來自 KBW 的 Jade Rahmani。

Just curious, if you have a borrower where you have multiple deals and one of the deals you're in discussions on, because it's having issues, do you make relationship-based decisions or everything is case by case with respect to an individual deal?

只是好奇，如果您有一個借款人有多項交易，並且您正在討論其中一項交易，因為它有問題，您是否會做出基於關係的決策，或者就單個交易而言，一切都視具體情況而定？

I mean, it's really a case-by-case basis, Jade. I mean, we're trying -- if we've got an issue and we're dealing with a sponsor, we very much are trying to optimize the outcome on the issue loan. So I think we're taking those individually and seeing what kind of outcome we can get to.

我的意思是，這確實是具體情況具體分析，傑德。我的意思是，我們正在努力 - 如果我們遇到問題並且正在與讚助商打交道，我們會非常努力地優化問題貸款的結果。所以我認為我們正在單獨考慮這些問題，看看我們能得到什麼樣的結果。

So on Minneapolis, let's say the sponsor there has several other deals that they're not in the same position but they could have some issues down the road that you're aware of and anticipating, it's just not at the same risk level. You're not going to talk holistically?

因此，在明尼阿波利斯，假設贊助商還有其他幾筆交易，他們的處境不同，但他們可能會遇到一些您已經意識到和預期的問題，只是風險水平不同。你不打算全面談談嗎？

It really depends. I mean, although you say same sponsor, in many cases, it may be the same sponsor but you have different funds or different equity capital involved, we may have it in different portfolios as well.

這確實取決於。我的意思是，雖然你說的是同一個贊助商，但在很多情況下，它可能是同一個贊助商，但你有不同的基金或不同的股權資本，我們也可能有不同的投資組合。

So to the extent it's just KREF on a bilateral negotiation with a sponsor that has the same equity base and they want us to talk about a holistic solution, like, of course, we could have that conversation. That's not typically how it goes. You're usually just in front of them on 1 deal and negotiating that.

因此，在某種程度上，這只是 KREF 與具有相同股權基礎的讚助商進行雙邊談判，他們希望我們談論整體解決方案，當然，我們可以進行這樣的對話。通常情況並非如此。你通常就在他們面前就一筆交易進行談判。

Okay. The second question, just to really put a fine point on what Steve Delaney was asking and also what Steve was asking earlier, the Philadelphia sale, the short sale, is that going to hit book value further than what's already reserved?

好的。第二個問題，只是為了真正明確史蒂夫·德萊尼所問的問題以及史蒂夫之前所問的問題，即費城出售、賣空，這是否會比已經保留的賬面價值進一步影響？

It's not our anticipation. Nothing's done in this market until it's done. But we think we're appropriately reserved at the kind of current expectation of sale price.

這不是我們的預期。在完成之前，這個市場上什麼也沒有完成。但我們認為，我們對目前的銷售價格預期持適當保留態度。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Jack Switala for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回傑克·斯維塔拉（Jack Switala）發表閉幕詞。

Great. Thanks, operator, and thanks, everyone, for joining today. You can reach out to me or the team here with any questions. Take care.

偉大的。謝謝操作員，也謝謝大家今天的加入。如有任何問題，您可以聯繫我或這裡的團隊。小心。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連接。