Knowles Corp (KN) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Eric, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Q3 2025 Knowles Corporation earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的耐心等待。我叫艾瑞克，今天我將擔任你們的會議接線生。在此，我謹代表 Knowles 公司歡迎各位參加 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作說明）

I would now like to turn the call over to Sarah Cook. Please go ahead.

現在我將把電話交給莎拉庫克。請繼續。

Thank you, and welcome to our third quarter 2025 earnings call. I'm Sarah Cook, Vice President of Investor Relations. And presenting with me today are Jeffrey Niew, our President and CEO; and John Anderson, our Senior Vice President and CFO.

謝謝大家，歡迎參加我們2025年第三季財報電話會議。我是投資者關係副總裁 Sarah Cook。今天與我一起向大家介紹的是我們的總裁兼執行長 Jeffrey Niew，以及我們的資深副總裁兼財務長 John Anderson。

Our call today will include remarks about future expectations, plans and prospects for Knowles, which constitute forward-looking statements for purposes of the Safe Harbor provisions under applicable federal securities laws.

我們今天的電話會議將包括對 Knowles 未來預期、計劃和前景的評論，這些評論構成適用聯邦證券法安全港條款下的前瞻性陳述。

Forward-looking statements in this call will include comments about demand for company products, anticipated trends in company sales, expenses and profits and involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from current expectations. The company urges investors to review the risks and uncertainties in the company's SEC filings included, but not limited to, the annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2024, periodic reports filed from time to time with the SEC and the risks and uncertainties identified in today's earnings release.

本次電話會議中的前瞻性陳述將包括對公司產品需求、公司銷售、支出和利潤的預期趨勢的評論，並涉及許多風險和不確定性，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果與當前預期存在重大差異。本公司敦促投資者審查公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所列的風險和不確定性，包括但不限於截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度的 10-K 表格年度報告、不時向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期報告以及今天發布的收益報告中所列的風險和不確定性。

All forward-looking statements are made as of the date of this call, and Knowles disclaims any duty to update such statements, except as required by law. In addition, pursuant to Reg G, any non-GAAP financial measures referenced during today's conference call can be found in our press release posted on our website at knowles.com and in our current report on Form 8-K filed today with the SEC. This will include a reconciliation to the most directly comparable GAAP measure.

所有前瞻性陳述均截至本次電話會議之日，除法律要求外，諾爾斯公司不承擔更新此類陳述的任何義務。此外，根據 Reg G，今天電話會議中提及的任何非 GAAP 財務指標都可以在我們網站 knowles.com 上發布的新聞稿以及我們今天向美國證券交易委員會提交的 8-K 表格的最新報告中找到。這將包括與最直接可比較的GAAP指標進行核對。

All financial references on this call will be on a non-GAAP continuing operations basis with the exception of cash from operations or unless otherwise indicated. We've made selected financial information available in webcast slides, which can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website.

本次電話會議中的所有財務參考資料均以非GAAP持續經營為基礎，經營活動產生的現金流量除外，除非另有說明。我們已在網路直播幻燈片中提供了部分財務信息，您可以在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到這些幻燈片。

With that, let me turn the call over to Jeff, who will provide details on our results. Jeff?

接下來，我會把電話交給傑夫，他將為大家詳細介紹我們的結果。傑夫？

Thanks, Sarah, and thanks to all of you for joining us today. As we continue to execute our strategy of leveraging our unique technologies to design custom engineered solutions and then deliver them at scale for customers and markets that value our solutions, we achieved strong results in the third quarter of 2025. Revenue was $153 million, up 7% year-over-year. EPS of $0.33, up 22% year-over-year, and cash from operations was $29 million, all of which were above the midpoint of our guided range. I believe our results continue to demonstrate that our focus on the markets and products where we have significant competitive advantage is paying dividends and positions us well for future growth.

謝謝莎拉，也謝謝各位今天蒞臨。我們繼續執行我們的策略，即利用我們獨特的技術設計客製化的工程解決方案，然後大規模地將其交付給重視我們解決方案的客戶和市場，我們在 2025 年第三季取得了強勁的業績。營收為1.53億美元，年增7%。每股收益為0.33美元，年增22%，經營活動產生的現金流為2,900萬美元，所有這些數據均高於我們先前預期範圍的中點。我相信，我們的業績持續表明，我們專注於擁有顯著競爭優勢的市場和產品的做法正在獲得回報，並為我們未來的成長奠定了良好的基礎。

Now turning to the segment results. In Q3, Medtech & Specialty Audio revenue was $65 million, up 2% year-over-year. Our continued operational excellence, sustained success of new product adoption and cutting-edge technology is evidenced with our strong gross margins. I expect that Medtech & Specialty Audio will have revenue growth within the range of 2% to 4% over the year in 2025, and we are optimistic about our future growth opportunities we detailed at our Investor Day.

現在來看細分市場的結果。第三季度，醫療技術和專業音訊業務收入為 6,500 萬美元，年增 2%。我們持續卓越的營運、新產品推廣的持續成功以及尖端技術都體現在我們強勁的毛利率上。我預計 2025 年醫療科技與專業音響業務的收入成長率將在 2% 至 4% 之間，我們對在投資者日上詳細介紹的未來成長機會持樂觀態度。

In the Precision Devices segment, Q3 revenue was $88 million, up 12% year-over-year. We saw revenue growth across all our end markets: medtech, defense, industrial, and EV and energy. Our strong intimacy with our customers' applications has led to accelerating design wins. Coupled with robust secular trends in our end markets, I am confident in our ability to continue to grow revenue in the fourth quarter and beyond. While we are seeing growth across all our end markets, I would like to highlight the defense market as it was particularly strong with design wins and bookings outpacing other end markets.

在精密設備部門，第三季營收為 8,800 萬美元，年增 12%。我們在所有終端市場都實現了收入成長：醫療技術、國防、工業、電動車和能源。我們與客戶應用之間的緊密聯繫，加速了設計方案的成功交付。鑑於我們終端市場強勁的長期發展趨勢，我對我們能夠在第四季度及以後繼續實現營收成長充滿信心。雖然我們所有終端市場都實現了成長，但我還是要重點介紹國防市場，因為該市場表現尤為強勁，設計訂單和預訂量均超過了其他終端市場。

Our capacitors and RF microwave solutions serve a wide variety of military applications. We have a compelling product offering of RF filters being used in next generation of defense systems serving a broad base of applications from radar, detection and jamming to ground communications, ensuring reliable and secure military communications.

我們的電容器和射頻微波解決方案服務於各種軍事應用。我們擁有極具吸引力的射頻濾波器產品系列，這些產品應用於下一代國防系統，服務於從雷達、探測和乾擾到地面通訊等廣泛應用領域，確保可靠和安全的軍事通訊。

Our capacitors provide the electrical energy source needed for extremely harsh applications like munitions and detonation devices. Defense spending is increasing and shifting towards spending on electronic warfare where our products are in high demand.

我們的電容器為彈藥和爆破裝置等極為嚴苛的應用提供所需的電能。國防開支不斷增加，並且逐漸轉向電子戰領域，而我們的產品在該領域需求量很大。

In Q3, bookings in the PD segment remained strong, particularly in defense and with our distribution partners. We continue to believe that channel inventories are now at normalized levels as they are now matching orders to end market demand. We continue to collaborate with our customers leading to a robust pipeline of new design wins as our customers continue to choose our innovative and differentiated solutions across all the markets we serve.

第三季度，PD 領域的訂單量依然強勁，尤其是在國防領域以及與我們的分銷合作夥伴的合作方面。我們仍然認為通路庫存目前已恢復正常水平，因為訂單現在與終端市場需求相符。我們繼續與客戶合作，並不斷贏得新的設計訂單，因為我們的客戶在我們所服務的所有市場中都繼續選擇我們創新和差異化的解決方案。

We are positioned well for organic growth, and I expect the Precision Devices segment will grow at the high end of our stated growth range of 6% to 8% in 2025. I would like to reiterate the strategy we are executing across both of our business units.

我們已做好充分準備實現內生成長，我預計到 2025 年，精密設備部門的成長速度將達到我們既定成長範圍 6% 至 8% 的高端。我想重申一下我們兩個業務部門正在執行的策略。

We are leveraging our unique technologies, creating custom products through our customer application intimacy and then scaling into production with our world-class operational capabilities for end markets with strong secular growth trends. It is proving to be a winning combination, leading to year-to-date revenue growth of 5% and EPS growth of 15% on a year-over-year basis.

我們正在利用我們獨特的技術，透過與客戶應用的深入溝通來打造客製化產品，然後憑藉我們世界一流的營運能力，為具有強勁長期成長趨勢的終端市場擴大生產規模。事實證明，這是一個成功的組合，使得該公司今年迄今的收入同比增長了 5%，每股收益同比增長了 15%。

John will go through our Q4 guidance shortly, but as we stated on previous calls, we are expecting to finish the year strong with revenue and EPS growth accelerating in the second half of 2025. As we look to next year, with new design wins ramping and a very healthy backlog of existing orders, we expect to see organic growth rates at the high end of our stated range of 4% to 6% for the total company. This is an increase from historical levels, supported by strong secular growth trends in our end markets and new initiatives such as the expansion of our specialty film production coming online.

John 稍後會詳細介紹我們的第四季業績指引，但正如我們在先前的電話會議中所說，我們預計今年將以強勁的勢頭結束，營收和每股收益成長將在 2025 年下半年加速。展望明年，隨著新設計訂單的增加和現有訂單的充足儲備，我們預計公司整體的有機成長率將達到我們先前宣布的 4% 至 6% 的區間的高端。與歷史水平相比，這是一個增長，這得益於我們終端市場強勁的長期增長趨勢以及諸如特種薄膜生產擴張等新舉措的上線。

Cash generation from operations continued to be robust in the third quarter, allowing Knowles to purchase $20 million in shares and reduce outstanding bank borrowings by $15 million. We have a very strong balance sheet that will continue to support our growth as we pursue synergistic acquisitions and buy back shares while continuing to keep our debt at very manageable levels.

第三季度，公司經營活動產生的現金流依然強勁，使得 Knowles 能夠購買價值 2,000 萬美元的股票，並減少 1,500 萬美元的未償銀行貸款。我們擁有非常強勁的資產負債表，這將繼續支持我們的成長，我們將繼續進行協同收購和股票回購，同時繼續將債務保持在非常可控的水平。

In summary, as I said last quarter, I'm excited by the momentum and strength the business demonstrated and the growth opportunities that we have in front of us, both in the near and longer term. Our design wins continue to be strong across our product portfolio. This is driving increased demand for our products, which gives me confidence that we have entered a period of accelerated organic growth from historical levels. We are laser-focused on what we do best, designing custom engineered products and delivering them at scale for customers and markets that value our solution, positioning us well for growth in 2025 and beyond.

總而言之，正如我上個季度所說，我對公司展現出的發展勢頭和實力以及我們眼前的短期和長期成長機會感到興奮。我們在產品組合的各個方面都持續斬獲設計訂單。這推動了對我們產品需求的成長，這讓我相信我們已經進入了從歷史水準加速有機成長的時期。我們專注於我們最擅長的領域，即設計客製化工程產品並大規模交付給重視我們解決方案的客戶和市場，這使我們在 2025 年及以後的發展中佔據了有利地位。

Now let me turn the call over to John to detail our quarterly results and provide guidance for Q4.

現在我把電話交給約翰，讓他詳細介紹我們的季度業績並提供第四季度的展望。

Thanks, Jeff. We reported third quarter revenues of $153 million, up 7% from the year ago period and at the high end of our guidance range. EPS was $0.33 in the quarter, up $0.06 or 22% from the year ago period and also at the high end of our guidance range. Cash generated by operating activities was $29 million at the high end of our guidance range, driven by lower-than-expected net working capital.

謝謝你，傑夫。我們公佈的第三季營收為 1.53 億美元，比去年同期成長 7%，達到我們預期範圍的高端。本季度每股收益為 0.33 美元，比去年同期增長 0.06 美元或 22%，也達到了我們預期範圍的上限。經營活動產生的現金流為 2,900 萬美元，處於我們預期範圍的高端，主要原因是淨營運資本低於預期。

In the Medtech & Specialty Audio segment, Q3 revenue was $65 million, up 2% compared with the year ago period, driven by increased demand in the specialty audio market. Q3 gross margins were 53%, flat versus the year ago period. As expected, segment gross margins in the third quarter improved more than 200 basis points sequentially, and we expect gross margins to be above 50% for the full year 2025.

在醫療技術和專業音訊領域，第三季營收為 6,500 萬美元，比去年同期成長 2%，這主要得益於專業音訊市場需求的成長。第三季毛利率為 53%，與去年同期持平。如預期，第三季各業務部門的毛利率較上季提高了 200 多個基點，我們預計 2025 年全年毛利率將超過 50%。

The Precision Devices segment delivered third quarter revenues of $88 million, up 12% from the year ago period. Segment gross margins were 41.5%, up 150 basis points from the third quarter of 2024 as higher end market demand and production volumes in our ceramic capacitors and RF microwave product lines resulted in increased factory capacity utilization. These improvements were partially offset by higher production costs and lower-than-expected yields associated with the ramp-up of the specialty film product line.

精密設備部門第三季營收為 8,800 萬美元，比去年同期成長 12%。由於陶瓷電容器和射頻微波產品線的高端市場需求和產量增加，工廠產能利用率提高，該業務部門的毛利率為 41.5%，比 2024 年第三季增加了 150 個基點。這些改進被較高的生產成本和與特種薄膜產品線量產相關的低於預期的產量部分抵消了。

It's worth noting that specialty film output trends within the quarter were positive. And as we exited Q3, we are well positioned for both sequential growth and gross margin improvement in the fourth quarter.

值得注意的是，本季特種薄膜的產量趨勢呈上升趨勢。隨著第三季結束，我們已做好充分準備，迎接第四季的環比成長和毛利率提升。

On a total company basis, R&D expense in the quarter was $9 million, flat with Q3 2024 levels. SG&A expenses were $26 million, up $2 million from prior year levels, driven primarily by annual merit increases and higher incentive compensation costs. Interest expense was $2 million in the quarter and down $2 million from the year ago period as we continue to reduce our debt levels.

從公司整體來看，本季研發支出為 900 萬美元，與 2024 年第三季的水準持平。銷售、一般及行政費用為 2,600 萬美元，較上年同期增加 200 萬美元，主要原因是年度績效工資成長和激勵性薪酬成本增加。本季利息支出為 200 萬美元，比去年同期減少了 200 萬美元，因為我們繼續降低債務水準。

Now I'll turn to our cash flow and balance sheet. In the third quarter, we generated $29 million in cash from operating activities. Capital spending was $8 million in the quarter. We continue to expect to generate operating cash flow of 16% to 20% of revenues for full year 2025.

現在我將來看我們的現金流量表和資產負債表。第三季度，我們透過經營活動產生了 2,900 萬美元的現金。本季資本支出為 800 萬美元。我們仍預期 2025 年全年經營現金流將佔營收的 16% 至 20%。

During the third quarter, we purchased 940,000 shares at a total cost of $20 million. We exited the quarter with cash of $93 million and $176 million of debt, which includes borrowings under our revolving credit facility and an interest-free seller note issued in connection with the Cornell acquisition. The remaining balance of the seller note matures next month, and we expect to fund this payment with a combination of cash on hand and revolver borrowings.

第三季度，我們以 2000 萬美元的總成本購買了 940,000 股股票。本季末，我們持有現金 9,300 萬美元，負債 1.76 億美元，其中包括根據我們的循環信貸額度借款和與收購康乃爾大學相關的無息賣方票據。賣方票據的剩餘餘額將於下個月到期，我們預計將用手頭現金和循環貸款相結合的方式來支付這筆款項。

Lastly, our net leverage ratio based on trailing 12 months adjusted EBITDA was 0.6x, and we have liquidity of more than $350 million as measured by cash plus unused capacity under our revolver.

最後，根據過去 12 個月的調整後 EBITDA，我們的淨槓桿率為 0.6 倍，並且我們擁有超過 3.5 億美元的流動性，以現金加上循環信貸額度計算。

Before turning to the fourth quarter guidance, I want to give a brief update on the tariff situation as it relates to Knowles. While the situation remains fluid, we continue to believe our exposure to tariffs is less than 5% of revenue and 3% of cost of goods sold. We've had success in passing these additional costs on to our customers, and our expectation is to continue to do so without loss of business.

在談到第四季業績指引之前，我想先簡單介紹一下與 Knowles 相關的關稅情況。儘管情況仍不明朗，但我們仍然認為關稅對我們的影響不到收入的 5% 和銷售成本的 3%。我們已成功地將這些額外成本轉嫁給客戶，我們期望繼續這樣做，而不會造成業務損失。

Moving to our guidance. For the fourth quarter of 2025, revenues are expected to be between $151 million and $161 million, up 9% at the midpoint year-over-year. R&D expenses are expected to be between $8 million and $10 million. Selling and administrative expenses are expected to be within the range of $26 million to $28 million. We're projecting adjusted [EBIT] margin for the quarter to be within the range of 22% to 24%.

按照我們的指導進行操作。預計 2025 年第四季營收將在 1.51 億美元至 1.61 億美元之間，以年中位數計算，年增 9%。預計研發費用在 800 萬美元至 1,000 萬美元之間。預計銷售及管理費用將在 2,600 萬美元至 2,800 萬美元之間。我們預計本季調整後的[EBIT]利潤率將在22%至24%之間。

Interest expense in Q4 is estimated at $2 million and includes noncash imputed interest. We expect an effective tax rate of 7% to 11%. As we move forward, I expect the tax rate to increase in 2026 to the range of 15% to 19%. We're projecting EPS to be within a range of $0.33 to $0.37 per share. This assumes weighted average shares outstanding during the quarter of 87.2 million on a fully diluted basis.

第四季利息支出預計為 200 萬美元，其中包括非現金估算利息。我們預計實際稅率為 7% 至 11%。展望未來，我預計到 2026 年稅率將上升至 15% 至 19% 的範圍內。我們預計每股收益將在 0.33 美元至 0.37 美元之間。假設本季加權平均流通股數（完全稀釋後）為 8,720 萬股。

We're projecting cash generated by operating activities to be within the range of $30 million to $40 million. Capital spending is expected to be $12 million, and we expect full year capital spending to be approximately 5% of revenues as we've increased investments associated with capacity expansion related to our specialty film line.

我們預計經營活動產生的現金流量將在 3,000 萬美元至 4,000 萬美元之間。預計資本支出為 1,200 萬美元，由於我們增加了與特種薄膜生產線產能擴張相關的投資，預計全年資本支出將佔收入的 5% 左右。

In conclusion, our year-over-year revenue and earnings growth were strong in the third quarter. And with the backlog and increased order activity, we expect to continue to deliver both sequential and year-over-year revenue and earnings growth in the fourth quarter of 2025.

總之，我們第三季的營收和獲利年增強勁。憑藉積壓訂單和不斷增加的訂單活動，我們預計在 2025 年第四季將繼續實現環比和同比增長的收入和利潤增長。

I'll now turn the call back over to the operator for the questions-and-answers portion of our call. Operator?

現在我將把通話轉回給接線員，進行問答環節。操作員？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Christopher Rolland, Susquehanna

克里斯多福羅蘭，薩斯奎哈納

Hi guys, congrats, and thanks for the question. So I guess my first is going to be on specialty film. If you guys could just remind us on current capacity, your plans or even update us on your plans for capacity additions and how from a demand standpoint, you guys see revenue now into next year and whether you have high confidence on high-volume additional customer opportunities for this product in particular?

大家好，恭喜你們，感謝你們的提問。所以我想我的第一部作品將會是特種膠卷。如果你們能提醒我們一下目前的產能狀況、你們的計劃，或者更新一下你們的產能擴張計劃，以及從需求角度來看，你們如何看待現在到明年的收入，以及你們對這款產品能否獲得大量新增客戶機會有很高的信心，那就太好了？

Yes. Chris, let me separate that into two pieces of specialty film. Let me answer the first, which is a little bit easier, which is back to that energy order we received in Q1. So first, I think we're on track that starting really in the second quarter, but really fully ramping up at the end of the second quarter, that energy order will start to be delivered in the back half in full -- but starting in Q2, around $25 million or so. That's what we expect in that business.

是的。克里斯，讓我把它分成兩部分特殊膠卷。讓我回答第一個問題，這個問題比較容易，那就是回到我們在 Q1 中得到的能量順序。首先，我認為我們正按計劃推進，從第二季度開始，但真正全面加速，在第二季度末，能源訂單將在下半年開始全面交付——但從第二季度開始，大約是 2500 萬美元左右。這是我們在那個行業所期望的。

I think in the other portion of the specialty film business, right now, we have a backlog that's not counting again the energy order that's in excess of $25 million, close to $30 million backlog that to deliver on. And we see more orders coming. So we feel pretty comfortable as we look into next year that the specialty film line, probably is going to be in the $25 million to $30 million range this year. If you add the $25 million, it should be at least $55 million or $60 million next year. And we're expanding the capacity to fulfill those orders.

我認為在特種薄膜業務的另一部分，目前我們積壓的訂單還不包括超過 2500 萬美元、接近 3000 萬美元的能源訂單，這些訂單需要交付。我們預計還會有更多訂單。因此，展望明年，我們相當有信心特種薄膜產品線今年的銷售額將在 2,500 萬美元至 3,000 萬美元之間。如果加上這 2500 萬美元，明年至少應該有 5500 萬美元或 6000 萬美元。我們正在擴大產能以完成這些訂單。

Excellent. Thanks Jeff. And then perhaps we can talk about -- I think in the press release, you talked about design activity. I was wondering what you were alluding to and what underpins your high end of your target growth range? And just as we kind of think about Medtech or Precision Devices or any subsegment, what you would expect to be above and?

出色的。謝謝傑夫。然後或許我們可以談談——我想在新聞稿中，您談到了設計活動。我想知道你指的是什麼，以及你設定的目標成長範圍限制的依據是什麼？就像我們想到醫療技術、精密設備或任何細分領域時，你會期望在兩者之上看到什麼？

Yeah. So if you divide it that way, I think if I were to sit there right now, I would probably look at the Medtech & Specialty Audio business in '26 being in that 2% to 4% range for growth next year. I would sit there and say the Precision Device, which is now a business which is now obviously larger than the med tech is at the high end to maybe even slightly above the high end of the 6% to 8% that we provide for organic growth at the Investor Day. The underpinning of this, I wish I could point to and say beyond that energy order, which we highlight that it's like one customer or one application, we are just having a tremendous amount of success. And I would sit there and say, I really commend the teams within Knowles, Chris, in terms of execution.

是的。所以如果這樣劃分的話，我想如果我現在來預測，我可能會認為 2026 年醫療技術和專業音頻業務的增長率在 2% 到 4% 之間。我會坐在那裡說，Precision Device 現在的業務規模顯然比醫療技術業務更大，其有機增長率處於我們投資者日上給出的 6% 到 8% 的高端水平，甚至可能略高於高端水平。我希望我能指出並說明，除了能源訂單之外，我們強調，就像一個客戶或一個應用程式一樣，我們取得了巨大的成功。我會坐在那裡說，我真的要好好稱讚 Knowles 團隊的執行力，Chris。

It's taking our unique technologies and then customizing them for specific applications across med, industrial, defense, and then delivering them at scale with a world-class operation. And we're just having a tremendous amount of design win activity across the board. And that's why I think we feel comfortable right now when you look at the growth rates, coupled with that energy order we'll start to deliver that all our markets are up.

我們將獨特的技術進行客製化，使其適用於醫療、工業、國防等特定應用領域，然後透過世界一流的營運模式大規模交付。我們目前在各個設計領域都取得了巨大的成功。這就是為什麼我認為，從目前的成長率來看，再加上我們將開始交付的能源訂單，我們所有市場都在上漲，所以我們現在感到很安心。

I was even looking -- I think like even this year, we're kind of having quite a bit of success this year in EV. That's in '25, which obviously a lot of people aren't. And that's all about very specialized design wins in EV where we're having obviously very unique and differentiated products.

我甚至在觀察——我認為即使是今年，我們在電動車領域也取得了相當大的成功。那是 2025 年的事了，顯然很多人都不知道。而這一切都與電動車領域非常專業的設計勝利有關，我們顯然擁有非常獨特且差異化的產品。

Great. Thank you, guys.

偉大的。謝謝大家。

Bob Labick, CJS Securities.

Bob Labick，CJS Securities。

Congratulations. Also my congratulations as well on the strong performance.

恭喜。我也要祝賀你們取得如此優異的成績。

Yeah. So I just want to follow up on the kind of the specialty film. There's obviously lots of excitement going on in the capacitors. You talked about the energy order coming on next year and then the other specialty, I guess, I think you said medical and defense. And any way you can elaborate on some of the products that these are going into or the ability for follow-on orders in the non-big energy one and how that could progress over time?

是的。所以我想進一步了解這種特殊膠片的類型。顯然，電容器內部正在發生很多令人興奮的事情。你談到了明年即將推出的能源訂單，然後談到了其他專業領域，我想你提到了醫療和國防。您能否詳細說明這些產品將要應用到哪些領域，或在非大型能源領域後續訂單的可能性，以及隨著時間的推移，這種可能性將如何發展？

Yeah. I think I talked about a couple of them that we've talked about before, but they're growing pretty rapidly and doing well for us. But it all -- the specialty film really focuses around pulse power applications. It's applications where the capacitor is not being used in a traditional sense as a building block of an electronic circuit. It's actually being used to store a significant amount of energy that needs to be released in a very rapid pace in order to power something.

是的。我想我提到過其中幾個我們以前也討論過的項目，它們發展得非常迅速，而且對我們來說效果很好。但這一切——這種特種薄膜實際上主要針對脈衝功率應用。它指的是電容器並非以傳統方式用作電子電路的組成部分的應用。它實際上被用來儲存大量的能量，這些能量需要以非常快的速度釋放出來，才能為某些設備提供動力。

And we've talked about before about defibs. We talked about in the railgun application. We talked about more recently, radiotherapy is a great application for us. So there's a lot of applications that are emerging that are coming. I wouldn't -- beyond the energy ore, which is very unique in terms of the size, we have a lot of unique applications that are coming to market, and we continue to be called up on a weekly and daily basis. We seem to be in a very unique position, Bob, relative to the technology and the capability to deliver the solutions. And of course, it doesn't help to be US-based in manufacturing in the US as well.

我們之前也討論過除顫器。我們在電磁砲應用上討論過。我們最近也討論過，放射療法對我們來說是一個很好的應用領域。所以，未來會有很多新的應用程式出現。我不會——除了能量礦石（規模非常獨特）之外，我們還有很多獨特的應用即將進入市場，而且我們每週甚至每天都會接到諮詢電話。鮑勃，就技術和提供解決方案的能力而言，我們似乎處於一個非常獨特的地位。當然，如果企業總部設在美國，而且生產也在美國，那就更不利了。

Got it. Yes. It sounds like these are new applications solving problems may be better than before in kind of existing markets, but taking share from older technologies. Is that post --

知道了。是的。聽起來這些是能夠比以往更好地解決現有市場問題的新應用，但它們正在從舊技術手中奪取市場份額。那篇貼文--

I wouldn't say taking share. I would say this is like new applications that didn't exist before that are requiring like a significant amount of power to be delivered in a very rapid period of time in order to power the device. I think one of the ones that we alluded to, which is coming is downhole. And that's another application that, quite frankly, we're taking prototype orders for right now, but we could see down the road with all the work that we've been doing that these downhole applications where our capacitors would be in high heat environments, have to be taken downhole in order to be involved in fracking and cleaning of drill bits. There's a whole bunch of different applications here that we've been working on for like a year or two. And we're in the prototype phase right now, but everything indicates like that one is another application that would require pulse power.

我不會說是搶佔市場份額。我認為這就像以前不存在的新應用，需要非常短的時間內提供大量的電力才能為設備供電。我認為我們之前提到的即將推出的項目之一是「井下」。坦白說，這是我們目前正在接受原型訂單的另一個應用領域，但從我們所做的所有工作來看，未來這些井下應用（我們的電容器將處於高溫環境中）必須被帶到井下才能參與壓裂和鑽頭清洗。這裡有很多不同的應用程序，我們已經開發了大約一兩年了。我們現在正處於原型階段，但種種跡象表明，這將是另一個需要脈衝功率的應用。

Got it. Very exciting. And shifting gears, obviously, the balance sheet is in good shape. You're buying back stock. You've had M&A in the past. Can you just give us an update on the M&A environment? I don't know if it's like with tariffs, it slowed down. Has it like reopened up a little bit? Or what's the opportunity --

知道了。太令人興奮了。顯然，換個角度來看，資產負債表狀況良好。你在回購股票。你們過去有過併購經驗。能否簡單介紹一下目前的併購環境？我不知道是不是像關稅那樣，增速放緩了。它好像稍微重新開放了一些？或者說，機會是什麼？--

Yeah, we're definitely focused on this. I just think where we are today as a company is we have a great organic plan. And I think we want to make sure that if we do an acquisition, it becomes -- it's very obvious to our analysts, our shareholders why we did it. And so we're laser-focused on -- still on acquisitions. But I think we're in a position now where we're trying to be picky and making sure we're going to do something that makes sense, and that's really 1 plus 1 equals 3. I'm still hopeful we'll get something done over the next year or 2, but we want to make sure it's the right thing. I don't know, John, if you have any comments.

是的，我們肯定會重點關注這件事。我認為我們公司目前所處的位置是，我們擁有一個非常棒的有機成長計畫。我認為我們希望確保，如果我們進行收購，我們的分析師和股東能夠非常清楚地了解我們這樣做的原因。因此，我們仍然將重點放在收購上。但我認為我們現在所處的位置是，我們要精挑細選，確保我們做的事情是有意義的，而這實際上是 1 加 1 等於 3。我仍然希望我們能在未來一兩年內取得一些成果，但我們想確保這是正確的事情。約翰，我不知道你有什麼意見。

I think that the environment has improved from a quarter ago. There's more assets out there. Interest rates expectations are coming down. So again, we've got a good pipeline, but it's difficult to say when we're going to be able to complete. And as Jeff said, we're being disciplined.

我認為環境比一個季度前有所改善。還有更多資產等待發掘。利率預期正在下降。所以，我們目前有良好的管道，但很難說何時能夠完成。正如傑夫所說，我們正在接受紀律處分。

Okay, super, thanks very much.

好的，太好了，非常感謝。

Anthony Stoss, Craig Hallam.

安東尼·斯托斯，克雷格·哈勒姆。

Good afternoon guys. John, probably the first question for you. I'm curious if you can share the book-to-bill now and where it was maybe a quarter ago. And then palladium prices are up about 30% in the last 30 days. I know this impacted you guys early in 2022. I'm curious at what price of palladium do you think would have a negative effect on your gross margins?

各位下午好。約翰，這可能是你要問的第一個問題。我很想知道您能否分享一下目前的帳務結算比以及大約三個月前的情況。過去 30 天裡，鈀金價格上漲了約 30%。我知道這件事在 2022 年初對你們造成了影響。我想知道，您認為鈀金價格達到什麼水準會對您的毛利率產生負面影響？

So I'm going to let John take the palladium question first, and then I want to just cover the book-to-bill.

所以我打算先讓約翰回答鈀金的問題，然後我再來談談書本與帳單的對比。

Yes, Tony, you're right. The palladium costs have increased. I will say we're pretty good in terms of -- we've got prebuys. We have a pretty good position at least through the first half of next year, where we're kind of locked in at prices below today's market price. If they continue to elevate, I know looking back 12, 18 months ago, they got over $2,000 a troy ounce -- as you mentioned, they're $1,500.

是的，托尼，你說得對。鈀金價格上漲了。我想說，我們在預購方面做得相當好。至少到明年上半年，我們的處境相當不錯，價格基本上鎖定在低於當前市場價格的水平。如果價格繼續上漲，我知道回顧 12、18 個月前，金價曾超過每盎司 2000 美元——正如你提到的，現在是每盎司 1500 美元。

Again, we're monitoring this closely. If there are opportunities to prebuy even beyond the second half of next quarter -- sorry, of 2026, we'll do that. But I don't see this impacting our gross margins in a negative way at this point.

我們正在密切關注此事。如果到下個季度下半年之後（抱歉，是到 2026 年）還有預購機會，我們也會這麼做。但我認為目前這不會對我們的毛利率產生負面影響。

I mean we've had a kind of a -- when we went through this once before, obviously, we were able to raise prices. But I think one of the things that we've done is we've kind of fixed the price, as John said, through the middle of next year. So we're not subject to like big swings in volatility over a short period of time. And I would also add that if we get to the back half of next year and prices remain the same, I think we'll probably be having discussions with our customers about it. I mean, I don't think it's a big deal at this point.

我的意思是，我們之前經歷過一次這種情況，顯然，我們當時能夠提高價格。但我認為我們所做的一件事是，正如約翰所說，我們已經把價格固定到明年年中。因此，我們不會受到短期內劇烈波動的影響。我還要補充一點，如果到了明年下半年價格仍然不變，我想我們可能會和客戶就此進行討論。我的意思是，我覺得現在這不是什麼大事。

On the book-to-bill, our book-to-bill within PD was one for the quarter. And I just -- it's worth a little color here. It was the second largest order quarter in the last four quarters. I think what you're starting to see is, quite frankly, that one is the revenue is up significantly. And so it's getting a little bit more difficult to produce those crazy book-to-bills that we had in the first half, but we're starting to deliver on those.

在訂單結算方面，我們 PD 部門的訂單結算量為 1 季。我覺得——這裡值得增添一些色彩。這是近四個季度以來訂單量第二高的季度。坦白說，我認為你開始看到的是，收入大幅成長。因此，要達到上半年那種驚人的訂單出貨率變得越來越困難，但我們正在逐步實現這一目標。

But I will say this, it was -- we had a very strong, again, bookings quarter. When I said it's the second largest bookings quarter we've had in the last 12 months. I would also just say that the backlog is quite high as well. And that's why we put so many orders in the last three quarters, again, not even counting the energy order. And so I think we feel very comfortable about how bookings are.

但我必須說，我們的預訂量再次非常強勁。我說過，這是我們過去 12 個月中預訂量第二大的季度。我還要補充一點，積壓的工作量也相當大。這就是為什麼我們在過去三個季度下了這麼多訂單，這還不包括能源訂單。所以我覺得我們對目前的預訂情況非常滿意。

I did look just yesterday at where the bookings were month-to-date, and it appears we're having another strong bookings month in October. So I think that the trends continue. It was -- as I said in the prepared remarks, it was particularly strong, the bookings in defense and then in -- with our distribution partners. We had well above 100 distribution partners in the defense market.

我昨天查看了本月迄今的預訂情況，看來10月份的預訂量又將保持強勁增長。所以我認為這種趨勢還會持續下去。正如我在準備好的演講稿中所說，國防領域的預訂情況尤其強勁，然後是與我們的分銷合作夥伴的預訂情況。我們在國防市場擁有超過 100 家分銷合作夥伴。

If I could sneak in one more for John. You said it's good to hear that the thin film you're making improvements in Q4 on the gross margin side. How much or how many more quarters do you think that will last? And what kind of impact is it at now?

如果我能再偷偷給約翰加一個就好了。您說很高興聽到薄膜業務在第四季度毛利率方面取得了進步。你覺得這些錢還能用多久？或者說還能用幾個季度？現在它產生了什麼樣的影響？

Tony, I mean, in terms of -- you're talking about the specialty film line specifically?

東尼，我的意思是，你具體指的是特種底片系列嗎？

I mean margins, all I'll say in Q3 were -- we had a great quarter overall, but that was an area for opportunity improvement. Margins were well below the total company and the PD average. As I said, it's really a question of we're adding costs, both fixed overhead. We're incurring higher than normal scrap costs. We're seeing within the quarter -- within Q3, we saw some positive trends.

我的意思是利潤率，關於第三季度，我只能說——總體而言，我們這一季度表現很棒，但這方面還有提升的空間。利潤率遠低於公司整體水準和PD平均水準。正如我所說，這實際上是一個我們增加了成本的問題，包括固定開支。我們目前的廢料成本高於正常水準。我們看到，在本季——第三季度，出現了一些正面的趨勢。

So August was better than July. September was much better than August. So coming out of that, we're kind of trajectory is right.

所以八月比七月好。九月比八月好得多。所以從那以後，我們的發展軌跡算是正確的。

I think the question -- just -- I think you're not going to really see the full benefit of what we think the gross margin we can get to until probably late Q2 when the energy order starts to fully ramp. Because just remember, what's going on is we're hiring people, equipment is starting to run. We're putting overhead in place to deliver this energy order, but we're not actually delivering a lot of units yet or producing a lot of units. So it is impacting gross margin, and that's really not going to go away fully until mid- to late Q2.

我認為問題在於——我認為，直到第二季末能源訂單開始全面增加時，你才能真正看到我們預期毛利率所能達到的全部好處。請記住，現在的情況是我們正在招募人員，設備也開始運作了。我們正在投入資源來交付這份能源訂單，但實際上我們還沒有交付很多單位，也沒有生產很多單位。因此，這會影響毛利率，而且這種情況要到第二季中後期才會完全消失。

But I do, again, see sequential improvement from Q3 to Q4 in gross margins due to improved output and capacity utilization.

但是，我確實再次看到，由於產量和產能利用率的提高，毛利率從第三季到第四季有所較上季改善。

Very good, thanks guys.

太好了，謝謝各位。

Tristan Gerra, Baird.

特里斯坦·格拉，貝爾德。

Hi, good afternoon. Could you give us a sense of the gross margin leverage on incremental utilization rates and where utilization rates are currently? And also as a follow-up to the prior question, what is the gross margin impact from the ramp in specialty film in Q3? And assuming that impact, as you said, disappears by mid next year, is it kind of a linear decline? Or is it more of a decline that happens mostly when you start ramping in Q2 of next year?

您好，下午好。可否介紹一下毛利率對產能利用率提升的槓桿作用，以及目前的產能利用率水準？另外，作為前一個問題的補充，第三季特種薄膜產量增加對毛利率有何影響？假設如你所說，這種影響到明年年中消失，那麼這種影響是線性下降的嗎？或者說，這種下滑趨勢主要發生在明年第二季開始加速生產的時候？

Yeah. A lot of questions to unpack there, Tristan. I would say the first thing with respect to the gross margin utilization and capacity, you really have to look at it on a product line-by-product line basis. We have some product lines that are running close to full capacity within the ceramic capacitor business and others that we've got some capacity. So it's really difficult to kind of go and give you a blanket on what our capacity utilization is.

是的。特里斯坦，這裡有很多問題需要解答。關於毛利率利用率和產能，我想說的第一點是，你必須逐條產品線分析。在陶瓷電容器業務方面，我們有一些產品線接近滿載運轉，而其他一些產品線則還有一些產能。所以，我們很難籠統地告訴您我們的產能利用率是多少。

But generally speaking, like our drop-through on incremental revenue.

但總的來說，就像我們對增量收入的下降一樣。

I would say that question is easier to answer on average, again, it depends on product line. But overall, you can think of 35% to 40% dropping to the bottom line on every dollar of sales. Our variable -- you can see our gross margin is, call it, 45%. Our variable contribution margin is higher than that, obviously. And we don't have a lot of incremental operating expenses.

我認為這個問題一般來說比較容易回答，當然，這也取決於產品線。但總的來說，你可以想像每1美元的銷售額中，有35%到40%會落在最終利潤上。我們的變數－您可以看到我們的毛利率是，比如說，45%。顯然，我們的可變貢獻毛利高於這個數字。而且我們也沒有很多新增營運費用。

So if I was modeling this yes, every dollar of sales, kind of think of it as that 35% to 40%. Obviously, if it's MSA, it's going to be a little higher than that and certain areas within PD can be a little lower. But overall, kind of use that 35% to 40%.

所以如果我要建立模型，那麼每一美元的銷售額，都可以看成是 35% 到 40%。顯然，如果是 MSA，數值會比這高一些，而 PD 的某些區域數值可能會低一些。但整體而言，大概使用 35% 到 40%。

Maybe, John, if you agree, but I think what you're going to see is some linear improvement in Q4, Q1 and into Q2. And when you're going to see probably a bigger jump up in Q3 once we're fully running the production. So it's going to kind of be linear and then a jump up.

也許吧，約翰，如果你同意的話。但我認為你會看到第四季、第一季以及第二季出現一些線性改善。一旦我們全面投產，預計第三季產量將出現更大幅度的成長。所以它會先呈線性成長，然後突然上升。

Yes. The only thing I would say is sometimes Q1 has a little seasonality where in some --

是的。我唯一想說的是，第一季有時會有一些季節性因素，在某些方面。--

I'm talking about specialty film specifically. You will see linear sequential improvement Q3, Q4, Q4 to Q1, Q1 to Q2 and then a big jump up as we get into Q3.

我指的是特種膠片。你會看到 Q3、Q4、Q4 到 Q1、Q1 到 Q2 的線性連續改善，然後進入 Q3 時會大幅躍升。

But in some of our other business, like MSA, typically, Q4 is a really good -- Q3, Q4 are good quarters, and then we see a little dip down in Q1.

但在我們其他一些業務中，例如 MSA，通常情況下，第四季度業績非常好——第三季度和第四季度都是不錯的季度，然後我們會看到第一季略有下滑。

I think the overall theme, Tristan, is this. I still think that a number of our businesses, specifically the specialty film product category still has upside gross margin that should be -- help the overall company continue to start -- continue to raise EBITDA margins over time.

特里斯坦，我認為整體主題是這樣的。我仍然認為我們的許多業務，特別是特種薄膜產品類別，仍有毛利率上升的空間，這應該有助於公司整體繼續提高 EBITDA 利潤率。

Yeah. I would -- just last point on this. If we're going to finish somewhere 44% to 45% in 2025, there is opportunity to go higher in 2026, really driven by the -- in the back half of '26, driven by that ramp-up in the specialty film line.

是的。我只想補充最後一點。如果我們在 2025 年的最終目標達成率為 44% 到 45%，那麼在 2026 年就有機會進一步提高，這主要得益於——在 2026 年下半年，特種膠片生產線的快速增長。

Okay. That's very useful. And then for my second one, your exposure to distribution and industrial within PD, is that still around 40%? And you've mentioned that inventory levels are back to normal. Is that the case for industrial and distribution as well?

好的。那非常有用。那麼，我的第二個問題是，您在PD領域對分銷和工業的投資比例是否仍在40%左右？您也提到庫存水準已經恢復正常。工業和分銷領域的情況也是如此嗎？

And you've mentioned a very nice ramp in industrial. So should we assume that even in that segment, inventory levels have normalized? And if not, when do you think that happens?

你曾提到工業區裡一個非常漂亮的坡道。那麼我們是否應該認為，即使在該領域，庫存水準也已經恢復正常？如果不是，你認為這種情況什麼時候會發生？

I would say, generally speaking, a big portion of what we categorize in our distribution business is industrial, and that business is up. Now here's what I'd just say is it's a little opaque yet to answer the question on industrial growth year-over-year, because you're taking into account inventory burn down. But I can definitely say that if you look at the growth in distribution, we're going to have some pretty nice growth in our distribution business. And when we see their POS reports, they're seeing nice growth as well. And a big portion of that's industrial.

總的來說，我認為我們分銷業務中很大一部分是工業產品，而且這部分業務正在成長。現在我想說的是，要回答工業年成長的問題還有些不明確，因為要考慮庫存消耗。但我可以肯定地說，如果你看看分銷領域的成長情況，我們的分銷業務將會取得相當不錯的成長。當我們查看他們的POS報告時，也發現他們的成長勢頭良好。其中很大一部分是工業用地。

Now again, it's hard to actually say how much industrial is growing. But I can tell you is the inventory is for sure out. We're definitely seeing ordering trends that are saying that orders are lining up with demand as opposed to if we're burning out inventory, we don't really need that much to order that much from you.

現在，很難確切地說工業究竟成長了多少。但我可以肯定地告訴你，庫存已經全部售罄。我們確實看到訂購趨勢表明，訂單與需求相符，而不是像庫存告急那樣，我們其實並不需要那麼多庫存向你們訂購。

Great, thanks again, very useful.

太好了，再次感謝，非常有用。

There are no further questions at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining, and you may now disconnect.

目前沒有其他問題了。女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與，現在可以斷開連結了。