金德摩根 (KMI) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and thank you for standing by, and welcome to the quarterly earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

下午好，感謝您的耐心等待，歡迎參加季度財報電話會議。 （操作員指示）今天的會議正在錄音。 （操作員說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Mr. Rich Kinder, Executive Chairman of Kinder Morgan. Sir, you may begin.

現在我很高興將會議交給金德摩根執行主席 Rich Kinder 先生主持。先生，您可以開始了。

Okay. Thank you, Michelle. And before we begin, I'd like to remind you as usual that KMI's earnings release today and this call include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 as well as certain non-GAAP financial measures. Before making any investment decisions, we strongly encourage you to read our full disclosures on forward-looking statements and use of non-GAAP financial measures set forth at the end of our earnings release as well as review our latest filings with the SEC for important material assumptions, expectations and risk factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated and described in such forward-looking statements.

好的。謝謝你，米歇爾。在我們開始之前，我想像往常一樣提醒您，KMI 今天發布的收益報告和本次電話會議包含1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法》和1934 年《證券交易法》以及某些特定條款所界定的前瞻性陳述。非公認會計準則財務指標。在做出任何投資決定之前，我們強烈建議您閱讀我們在收益發布末尾列出的關於前瞻性陳述和使用非公認會計準則財務指標的完整披露，並查看我們向 SEC 提交的最新文件以獲取重要資料可能導致實際結果與此類前瞻性陳述中預期和描述的結果有重大差異的假設、預期和風險因素。

In my remarks at the beginning of our second quarter investor call, I talked about future demand for natural gas and why that makes us bullish about the future of KMI. The biggest portion of that growth in demand is attributable to LNG. So let me follow up on this call by reviewing the latest estimates regarding future U.S. speed gas demand to serve the country's LNG export facilities. S&P Global Commodity Insights estimates LNG feed gas demand at 13.1 Bcf a day for 2023 and projects that it will grow to 24.7 Bcf a day in 2028 and to 27.5 Bcf a day in 2023 (sic) [2030]. IEA estimates that U.S. LNG exports, as a share of global LNG supply, will grow from 20% in 2022 to almost 30% in 2026. All of these numbers demonstrate incredible growth, which is driven, of course, by new LNG export facilities that had been FID'd, most of which are currently under construction.

在第二季投資人電話會議開始時的演講中，我談到了天然氣的未來需求以及為什麼這讓我們看好 KMI 的未來。需求成長的最大部分來自液化天然氣。因此，讓我透過回顧美國未來液化天然氣出口設施服務的天然氣需求的最新估計來跟進這次電話會議。 S&P Global Commodity Insights 估計 2023 年液化天然氣原料氣需求為每天 13.1 Bcf，並預計 2028 年將增至每天 24.7 Bcf，2023 年將增至每天 27.5 Bcf（原文如此）[2030]。 IEA 估計，美國液化天然氣出口占全球液化天然氣供應的份額將從2022 年的20% 增長到2026 年的近30%。所有這些數字都顯示出令人難以置信的增長，當然，這是由新的液化天然氣出口設施推動的已完成最終投資決定，其中大部分目前正在建設中。

Now how does this increased demand affect the Midstream Energy segment and specifically Kinder-Morgan? To meet this increased feed gas demand, the country is going to need additional pipelines and not just header pipelines to the export terminals, but also significant expansion in the pipeline infrastructure upstream from those header systems and terminals. While we believe Haynesville production will grow the supply portion of this demand, because of its proximity to the LNG facilities in Louisiana and Southeast Texas, we will not be able to fulfill all these growth volumes and additional takeaway capacity from multiple basins will be required. Access to multiple basins is also important to help solve the excess nitrogen problem confirming LNG export facilities.

現在，這種需求的增加如何影響中游能源領域，特別是金德摩根？為了滿足不斷增長的原料氣需求，該國將需要額外的管道，而不僅僅是通往出口終端的總管，還需要大幅擴建這些總管系統和終端上游的管道基礎設施。雖然我們相信海恩斯維爾的產量將增加這一需求的供應部分，但由於其靠近路易斯安那州和德克薩斯州東南部的液化天然氣設施，我們將無法滿足所有這些增長量，並且需要來自多個盆地的額外外運能力。進入多個盆地對於幫助解決確認液化天然氣出口設施的過量氮問題也很重要。

While there are other midstream players will also benefit, we think Kinder Morgan, which is currently transporting a little less than half of all U.S. LNG feed gas, is in excellent position to take advantage of this tremendous opportunity because of the extensive footprint of our pipeline network particularly in Texas and Louisiana, where so much of the additional demand will occur.

雖然其他中游企業也將受益，但我們認為金德摩根目前運輸的液化天然氣原料氣占美國液化天然氣原料氣的一半不到，由於我們的管道覆蓋範圍廣泛，它處於充分利用這一巨大機遇的有利位置網絡，特別是在德克薩斯州和路易斯安那州，那裡將出現大量的額外需求。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Kim and the team.

接下來，我會將其交給 Kim 和團隊。

Okay. Thanks, Rich. I'll make a few overall points, and then I'm going to turn it over to Tom and David to give you more details. We had a solid quarter financially. We continue to find opportunities to add to our backlog. We repurchased $73 million in shares at an average price of $16.77. That brings us to $472 million of share repurchases year-to-date at a very attractive price of $16.58.

好的。謝謝，里奇。我將提出一些總體觀點，然後將其交給湯姆和大衛，讓他們向您提供更多細節。我們的季度財務狀況穩健。我們繼續尋找機會增加我們的積壓工作。我們以 16.77 美元的平均價格回購了 7,300 萬美元的股票。今年迄今為止，我們以 16.58 美元的極具吸引力的價格回購了 4.72 億美元的股票。

Financially, our portfolio of assets performed well with contributions from the segments up 5%, driven by increases in natural gas, products and terminals. Products had a particularly strong quarter, up 22%. Overall, our results were largely flat because of increased interest expense and sustaining CapEx, which we anticipated in our budget. For the year versus our budget, our expectations remain the same as what we communicated last quarter, slightly below our guidance, which can all be attributed to lower commodity prices. Versus the guidance we gave you last quarter, we have seen some benefit from improved commodity prices, but that was largely offset by other moving pieces, for example, delays in our ETV projects, all netting to leave us approximately in the same place for the full year that we discussed with you last quarter.

在財務方面，我們的資產組合表現良好，在天然氣、產品和碼頭成長的推動下，各細分市場的貢獻增加了 5%。產品季度表現尤其強勁，成長了 22%。總體而言，由於利息支出增加和資本支出持續增加，我們的業績基本上持平，這是我們在預算中預期的。對於今年的預算，我們的預期與上季傳達的預期相同，略低於我們的指導，這一切都可以歸因於大宗商品價格的下降。與我們上季度給您的指導相比，我們看到了大宗商品價格上漲帶來的一些好處，但這在很大程度上被其他變動因素所抵消，例如，我們ETV 項目的延遲，所有這些都使我們在我們上個季度與您討論過的全年。

We continue to see good opportunities to add to the backlog and we're more than able -- we're able to more than offset the projects that went into service with new additions. The backlog now stands at $3.8 billion with an average multiple of 4.7x. And we see opportunities beyond the backlog, especially in natural gas. As Rich said, demand is expected to grow by more than 20%, and the biggest driver of that growth is LNG, where many LNG exporters are interested in capacity further upstream to secure more competitively priced and diverse supply.

我們繼續看到增加積壓工作的好機會，而且我們有能力——我們能夠用新增加的項目來抵消已投入使用的項目。目前積壓訂單達 38 億美元，平均倍數為 4.7 倍。我們看到了積壓以外的機會，特別是在天然氣領域。正如 Rich 所說，需求預計將增加 20% 以上，而成長的最大推動力是液化天然氣，許多液化天然氣出口商對上游產能感興趣，以確保更具競爭力的價格和多樣化的供應。

Power demand and exports to Mexico also provide opportunities. We're seeing incremental power demand from new peaker plants in Texas and conversions from coal to natural gas, and that benefits our existing business as well as provides future opportunity and Tom will have more details on this in a minute. We also see additional opportunities for renewable diesel on the West Coast and are actively talking to customers about projects.

電力需求和對墨西哥的出口也提供了機會。我們看到德州新的調峰發電廠的電力需求不斷增加，以及從煤炭到天然氣的轉換，這有利於我們現有的業務，並提供未來的機會，湯姆很快就會提供更多詳細資料。我們也看到西海岸再生柴油的更多機會，並正在積極與客戶討論專案。

We're delivering according to the strategy we laid out many years ago. One, maintain a solid balance sheet. We ended the quarter at 4.1x, continuing to main some cushion versus our 4.5x long-term target. Two, invest in high-return projects that we internally fund. Since the second quarter of 2022, we added almost $1.2 billion to the backlog, and we continue to find good prospects. And three, return capital to our shareholders through a well-covered dividend and opportunistic share repurchase. We've returned $17.1 billion to our shareholders over the last 8 years which is about 45% of our market cap.

我們正在按照多年前製定的策略進行交付。第一，保持穩健的資產負債表。本季結束時，我們的回報率為 4.1 倍，與我們 4.5 倍的長期目標相比，繼續保持一定的緩衝。第二，投資我們內部資助的高報酬項目。自 2022 年第二季以來，我們的積壓訂單增加了近 12 億美元，並且我們繼續尋找良好的前景。第三，透過充分支付股利和機會性股票回購，向股東返還資本。在過去 8 年裡，我們向股東返還了 171 億美元，約占我們市值的 45%。

With that, I'll turn it over to Tom.

有了這個，我會把它交給湯姆。

Thanks, Kim. So starting with the natural gas business unit. Transport volumes increased by 5% which is about 1.9 million dekatherms per day for the quarter versus third quarter of 2022, driven by EP&G, Line 2000, return to service, increased natural -- LNG feed gas demand, increased power demand and increased industrial demand. These increases were partially offset by decreased exports to Mexico. Our natural gas gathering volumes were up 11% in the quarter compared to the third quarter of '22, driven by Haynesville volumes, which were up 23%, Bakken volumes, which were up 13%, and Eagle Ford volumes were up 7%. For the year, we expect gathering volumes to be up nicely, 16%, but about 4% below our plan, driven primarily by egress project delays and an asset sale.

謝謝，金。所以從天然氣業務部門開始。與2022 年第三季相比，本季運輸量增加了5%，即每天約190 萬十卡熱姆，這得益於EP&G、2000 號線恢復營運、天然液化天然氣原料氣需求增加、電力需求增加和工業需求增加。這些增長被對墨西哥的出口減少部分抵消。與2022 年第三季相比，本季的天然氣收集量增加了11%，其中海恩斯維爾天然氣收集量增加了23%，巴肯天然氣收集量增加了13%，伊格爾福特天然氣收集量增長了7%。今年，我們預計集油量將大幅成長 16%，但比我們的計畫低約 4%，這主要是由於出口項目延遲和資產出售所致。

As you can see from the overall growth in transmission and gathering volumes, the gas markets continue to be robust. Power demand was particularly notable this quarter. We set a new network peak demand day record of 11.1 million decatherms per day on August 24 and monthly total demand records, both in July and August, of 9.35 million and 9.81 million dekatherms per day, respectively. 16 of our 20 highest all-time network power demand days occurred this quarter. These statistics reinforce the critical role that our natural gas pipelines and storage assets play in support of the power sector.

從輸氣量和集輸量的整體成長可以看出，天然氣市場持續強勁。本季電力需求尤其引人注目。我們於 8 月 24 日創下了每日 1,110 萬十卡熱的新網路高峰需求日記錄，並在 7 月和 8 月分別創下了每日 935 萬和 981 萬十卡熱的月度總需求記錄。我們歷史上 20 個最高網路電力需求日中有 16 個發生在本季。這些統計數據強化了我們的天然氣管道和儲存資產在支持電力產業方面發揮的關鍵作用。

In our Products pipeline segment, refined products volumes were up slightly for the quarter versus third quarter '22. Gasoline volumes were up 1%, while diesel volumes were down 2% for the comparable quarter last year. Diesel volumes continue to be lower primarily in California as the growing renewable diesel volumes displacing conventional diesel, were initially transported by methods other than pipeline. However, the reduction in conventional diesel volumes does not reflect the true economic picture for us as the RD Hub projects we placed in service earlier this year are largely underpinned with take-or-pay contracts. So we get paid most of our revenue even if the volumes do not flow.

在我們的產品管道部門，本季煉油產品產量比 22 年第三季略有增加。與去年同期相比，汽油銷量成長了 1%，而柴油銷量則下降了 2%。主要在加州，柴油量繼續下降，因為再生柴油量不斷增長，取代了傳統柴油，最初是通過管道以外的方式運輸的。然而，傳統柴油銷售的減少並不能反映我們的真實經濟狀況，因為我們今年稍早投入使用的研發中心專案在很大程度上是以照付不議合約為基礎的。因此，即使銷量沒有流動，我們也能獲得大部分收入。

That said, renewable diesel volumes on our pipelines have been ramping up considerably since the RD hubs came online, up from 700 a day in Q1 of this year to 24,000 a day in Q3. Overall jet fuel volumes increased 5% for the quarter versus third quarter '22. Crude and condensate volumes were up 5% in the quarter versus third quarter '22, driven by higher Bakken and Eagle Ford volumes.

也就是說，自 RD 中心上線以來，我們管線上的再生柴油產量大幅增加，從今年第一季的每天 700 輛增加到第三季的每天 24,000 輛。與 22 年第三季相比，本季的航空燃油總量增加了 5%。受巴肯和伊格爾福特產量增加的推動，本季原油和凝析油產量比 22 年第三季成長了 5%。

In our Terminals business segment, our liquids lease capacity remains high at 95%. Excluding tanks out of service for required inspections, approximately 96% of our capacity is leased. Utilization at our key hubs at Houston Ship Channel and New York Harbor strengthened in the quarter versus third quarter '22, and we continue to see nice rate increases in those markets as the fundamentals improve. Our Jones Act tankers were 98% leased through 2024, assuming likely options or exercise. On the bulk side, overall volumes were down 5% in the third quarter '22, primarily from lower coal, grain and metals tonnage, partially offset by increases in petcoke and soda ash.

在我們的碼頭業務部門，我們的液體租賃能力仍保持在 95% 的高點。不包括因所需檢查而停止使用的儲罐，我們大約 96% 的容量是租賃的。與 22 年第三季相比，本季休士頓船舶航道和紐約港主要樞紐的利用率有所提高，隨著基本面的改善，我們繼續看到這些市場的運價大幅成長。假設有可能選擇或行使，到 2024 年，我們的《瓊斯法案》油輪 98% 已出租。在散裝方面，22 年第三季總銷量下降了 5%，主要是由於煤炭、穀物和金屬噸位下降，部分被石油焦和純鹼的增加所抵消。

Grain volumes have minimal impact on our financial results. So excluding grain, our book volumes were down about 3%. Financial results benefited from rate escalations in the quarter.

糧食數量對我們的財務表現影響很小。因此，如果不包括穀物，我們的書籍銷量就下降了約 3%。財務業績受惠於本季利率上調。

The CO2 segment experienced lower overall volumes and prices on NGLs, CO2 and oil production versus the third quarter '22. Overall oil production decreased by 2% from the third quarter last year, but was above our plan for this quarter. For the year, we expect net oil volume to exceed our plan, largely due to better-than-expected performance from projects as well as strong volumes post the February outage at SACROC. These favorable volumes relative to the '23 plan helped offset some of the price weakness that we've experienced.

與 22 年第三季相比，二氧化碳部門的液化天然氣、二氧化碳和石油產量的整體銷售和價格均有所下降。整體石油產量比去年第三季下降了 2%，但高於我們本季的計畫。今年，我們預計淨石油量將超過我們的計劃，這主要是由於該項目表現優於預期以及 SACROC 2 月停電後的強勁產量。相對於 23 年計劃而言，這些有利的銷售量有助於抵消我們所經歷的一些價格疲軟。

With that, I'll turn it over to David Michels.

有了這個，我會把它交給大衛米歇爾斯。

All right. Thanks, Tom. So for the third quarter of 2023, we're declaring a dividend of $0.2825 per share, which is $1.13 per share annualized or 2% up from last year's dividend. Before I get into the quarterly performance, a few highlights. We've continued with our opportunistic share repurchase program, as Tom mentioned, bringing our year-to-date total repurchases to 28.5 million shares at an average price of $16.58 per share, creating very good value for our shareholders. We ended the third quarter with net debt to adjusted EBITDA of 4.1x, which leaves us with good capacity under our leverage target of around 4.5x, despite $472 million of unbudgeted share repurchases during the year.

好的。謝謝，湯姆。因此，我們宣布 2023 年第三季的股息為每股 0.2825 美元，年化股息為每股 1.13 美元，比去年的股息成長 2%。在介紹季度業績之前，先介紹一些亮點。正如湯姆所提到的，我們繼續實施機會主義股票回購計劃，使我們今年迄今的回購總量達到 2850 萬股，平均價格為每股 16.58 美元，為我們的股東創造了非常好的價值。截至第三季末，我們的淨債務與調整後 EBITDA 比率為 4.1 倍，這使我們在 4.5 倍左右的槓桿目標下擁有良好的能力，儘管今年進行了 4.72 億美元的未預算股票回購。

And while, as Kim mentioned, we are forecasting to be slightly below budget on full year DCF and EBITDA, more than all of that can be explained by lower-than-budgeted commodity prices. Meanwhile, we continue to see better-than-budgeted performance in both our natural gas and terminals businesses.

正如 Kim 所提到的，我們預計全年 DCF 和 EBITDA 將略低於預算，但所有這些都可以用低於預算的商品價格來解釋。同時，我們的天然氣和碼頭業務的業績繼續好於預算。

Now on to the quarterly performance. We generated revenues of $3.9 billion, which is down from $5.2 billion in the third quarter of 2022, which is down $1.3 billion. Cost of sales was also down $1.3 billion, and that is due to the large decline in commodity prices from last year to this year. As you will recall, we entered into offsetting purchase and sales positions in our Texas intrastate natural gas pipeline system, and that results in an effective take-or-pay transportation service, but it leaves our revenue and cost and sales, both exposed to price fluctuations while meanwhile, our margin is generally not impacted by price.

現在來說說季度業績。我們的營收為 39 億美元，低於 2022 年第三季的 52 億美元，後者減少了 13 億美元。銷售成本也下降了 13 億美元，這是由於從去年到今年大宗商品價格大幅下降。您可能還記得，我們​​在德克薩斯州內天然氣管道系統中建立了抵消採購和銷售頭寸的協議，從而實現了有效的照付不議的運輸服務，但它使我們的收入、成本和銷售都受到價格的影響同時，我們的利潤一般不會受到價格的影響。

Interest expense was higher versus 2022 as we expected, driven by the higher short-term rates, which impacted our floating rate swaps. We generated net income attributable to KMI of $532 million, down $0.08 from the third quarter of last year. Our earnings per share was $0.24, which is $0.01 down from '22. Our adjusted earnings was $562 million, down 2% compared to the third quarter of '22, and our adjusted EPS was flat with last year. Excluding the impact from interest expense, we would have been favorable to last year. And our share count was down 23 million or 1% versus the third quarter of '22 due to our share repurchase efforts.

正如我們預期的那樣，由於短期利率上升影響了我們的浮動利率掉期，利息支出高於 2022 年。我們歸屬於 KMI 的淨利潤為 5.32 億美元，比去年第三季下降 0.08 美元。我們的每股收益為 0.24 美元，比 22 年下降了 0.01 美元。我們的調整後收益為 5.62 億美元，比 2022 年第三季下降 2%，調整後每股收益與去年持平。如果排除利息支出的影響，我們去年的業績會比較好。由於我們的股票回購努力，我們的股票數量比 2022 年第三季減少了 2,300 萬股，即 1%。

On our business segment performance, improvements in our natural gas terminals and product segments, which were all up, but were partially offset by lower contributions from our CO2 segment. The favorable natural gas segment performance was driven by greater sales margin on our Texas intrastate system, favorable rates on recontracting at our Mid-Continent Express pipeline as well as contributions from EP&G and those were partially offset by unfavorable recontracting impacts on our South Texas access. Our Product pipeline segment was up due to unfavorable pricing impacts in the second quarter of last year as well as rate escalations across multiple assets.

在我們的業務部門業績方面，我們的天然氣終端和產品部門的改善全部上升，但部分被二氧化碳部門的貢獻下降所抵消。天然氣部門的良好業績是由德克薩斯州內系統更高的銷售利潤、中大陸快線管道再承包的優惠利率以及EP&G 的貢獻推動的，而這些因素被我們南德克薩斯通道的不利再承包影響所部分抵消。由於去年第二季不利的定價影響以及多種資產的利率上升，我們的產品管道部門有所成長。

Our Terminals segment was up mainly due to improved contributions from our Jones Act tanker business and expansion project contributions. Our CO2 segment was down due to lower CO2 and NGL price and volume as well as higher power costs, and those were all partially offset by contributions from our renewable natural gas business.

我們的碼頭部門的成長主要是由於我們的瓊斯法油輪業務和擴建項目的貢獻有所改善。由於二氧化碳和液化天然氣價格和銷售下降以及電力成本上升，我們的二氧化碳業務有所下降，但這些都被我們的再生天然氣業務的貢獻所部分抵消。

Our adjusted EBITDA was $1.835 billion for the quarter, up 3% from last year. Our DCF was $1.094 billion, down 2% from last year. And our DCF per share was $0.49 equal to last year. Again, excluding interest expense, we were favorable to last year.

本季調整後 EBITDA 為 18.35 億美元，比去年成長 3%。我們的 DCF 為 10.94 億美元，比去年下降 2%。我們每股 DCF 為 0.49 美元，與去年持平。再次強調，排除利息支出，我們對去年的情況是有利的。

Moving on to our balance sheet. We ended the third quarter with $30.9 billion of net debt. Our net debt has decreased $9 million since the beginning of the year. And on a year-to-date basis, the reconciliation is as follows: We generated $4.17 billion of cash flow from operations. We've paid out $1.9 billion in dividends. We've also funded $1.85 billion in total capital expenditures, and that includes growth sustaining and contributions to JVs and settled through the third quarter, we had stock repurchases of $389 million. That gets you pretty close to the $9 million change in net debt year-to-date.

繼續我們的資產負債表。第三季末，我們的淨債務為 309 億美元。自年初以來，我們的淨債務減少了 900 萬美元。年初至今的調節表如下：我們的營運現金流量為 41.7 億美元。我們已經支付了 19 億美元的股息。我們還為總資本支出提供了 18.5 億美元的資金，其中包括維持成長和對合資企業的貢獻，並在第三季結算，我們回購了 3.89 億美元的股票。這使得今年迄今的淨債務變化非常接近 900 萬美元。

And with that, I'll hand it back to Kim.

然後，我會把它交還給 Kim。

And I think, David, on the share count, you mean it was down 23 million shares. Okay. With that, we will take questions. Ask when it is your turn to ask questions, you limit it to 1 and a follow-up in consideration of others waiting in the queue, but you're welcome to get back in line if you have additional questions after that.

我認為，大衛，就股票數量而言，你的意思是減少了 2300 萬股。好的。接下來，我們將回答問題。當輪到你提問時提問，考慮到其他人在隊列中等待，你將其限制為 1 次和後續提問，但如果之後你還有其他問題，歡迎你重新排隊。

So operator, Michelle, would you please open it up for questions.

接線員米歇爾，請打開它提問。

(Operator Instructions) Jeremy Tonet with JPMorgan.

（操作員指示）Jeremy Tonet 與摩根大通。

Just wanted to start off with a high-level question, if I could. And just coming back to some of the commentaries you said in the past, given that the business has worked through a lot of, I guess, adverse contract rolls and other kind of headwinds are in the past. If you think about the current portfolio, how do you think the EBITDA growth generation is for this asset base? Do you see this as low single-digit EBITDA growth, mid-single-digit EBITDA growth or any other, I guess, framework that you could provide for us would be helpful?

如果可以的話，我只想從一個高級問題開始。回到你過去所說的一些評論，考慮到該業務已經經歷了很多，我猜，不利的合約滾動和其他類型的逆風已經成為過去。如果您考慮目前的投資組合，您認為該資產基礎的 EBITDA 成長潛力如何？您認為這是低個位數 EBITDA 成長、中個位數 EBITDA 成長還是任何其他我認為您可以為我們提供的框架會有所幫助？

Sure. So I think we will go through our '24 budget in the next month, 6 weeks or so. I think that will give us a better idea for 2024. But just at a high level, you're right that we have had some contract rollovers. We published those for you for the last couple of years in our analyst conference. And we stopped doing that because the headwinds with respect to rollovers, et cetera, were not -- were no longer material. So I think the network and natural gas, as you know, the pipes have filled up. Average utilization has gone much higher. That allows you to charge higher rates. That also means that your customers need ancillary services.

當然。所以我認為我們將在下個月、六週左右的時間內完成 24 年預算。我認為這會讓我們對 2024 年有一個更好的想法。但就高水平而言，你說得對，我們已經進行了一些合約展期。我們在過去幾年的分析師會議上為您發布了這些內容。我們停止這樣做是因為與翻車等相關的阻力不再是實質的。所以我認為網路和天然氣，如你所知，管道已經填滿。平均利用率高得多。這使您可以收取更高的費率。這也意味著您的客戶需要輔助服務。

Storage rates have increased significantly. So we're able to charge more for storage. Obviously, on our contracts and Products and Terminals, we have inflation escalators, which help increase the EBITDA in those businesses. And we've seen some nice rate increases, especially as a result of improving markets, on the Terminal side, especially in the New York Harbor. And so those businesses have some nice tailwinds. I think in CO2, obviously, the forward curve right now is that it's a little bit below where we are right now. But I think on average, it is above where we have been. The 2024 curve is above 2023. I think rent prices in 2024 above '23 right now. We will have these projects that are in service.

儲存率顯著提高。因此我們可以收取更多的儲存費用。顯然，在我們的合約、產品和終端上，我們有通貨膨脹自動扶梯，這有助於增加這些業務的 EBITDA。我們已經看到了一些不錯的費率上漲，特別是由於碼頭方面，尤其是紐約港市場的改善。因此，這些企業有一些良好的推動力。我認為，顯然，在二氧化碳方面，目前的遠期曲線略低於我們現在的水平。但我認為平均而言，它高於我們以往的水平。 2024 年的曲線高於 2023 年。我認為 2024 年的租金價格目前高於 23 年。我們將讓這些項目投入使用。

So I think we have a lot of tailwinds coming in this business. I would say, the 1 thing that we have to manage is just the regulatory environment, which we've seen increase over the last couple of years. And so those are things we'll address as we go through the 2024 budget, but it's -- we've got a lot of project opportunities also on gas. To some -- a lot of which we have added to the backlog, but there's still many, many more that aren't in the backlog yet. And I went through some of those in my opening commentary. So it's hard to boil it all down to a rate until we get very specific on numbers. But I think in terms -- the tailwinds right now are very nice.

所以我認為我們在這個行業中有很多順風車。我想說，我們必須管理的第一件事就是監管環境，過去幾年我們看到監管環境增加。因此，這些都是我們在審議 2024 年預算時將解決的問題，但我們在天然氣方面也有很多專案機會。對於某些人來說，我們已經將其中許多添加到待辦事項中，但還有很多很多尚未列入待辦事項。我在開場評論中回顧了其中的一些內容。因此，在我們得到非常具體的數字之前，很難將其全部歸結為一個比率。但我認為，現在的順風非常好。

Got it. That's helpful. And maybe just kind of pivoting gears a little bit here towards capital allocation and see that the leverage is still at 4.1x, which I think is below the long-term target here. And it seems like most of the buybacks have been done below $17. And so when you think about capital allocation, do you think this buyback is below $17 sending the message to the market on how management thinks about the value of the stock? Or you see more value in retaining dry powder for acquisitions or growth CapEx? Just wondering if you could update us on your thoughts there.

知道了。這很有幫助。也許只是稍微調整一下資本配置，槓桿率仍處於 4.1 倍，我認為這低於長期目標。看起來大部分的回購都是在 17 美元以下完成。因此，當您考慮資本配置時，您認為本次回購是否低於 17 美元，向市場傳達了管理層如何看待股票價值的訊息？還是您認為保留乾粉用於收購或成長資本支出更有價值？只是想知道您是否可以向我們通報您的最新想法。

Sure. I mean, I think that where we have our return set with respect to projects, as we've stated a lot of times is in the mid-teens. And we move up and down from that depending on the risk of the project. And so those are going to be very nice returns and well above our cost of capital. And so the priority when we have our target returns set at that threshold are going to take priority over share repurchase. That being said, when we have excess cash flow, and we will do opportunistic share repurchase. And so we don't have unlimited cash flow to do share repurchases. And so we want to make sure that when we do those, we're getting a very attractive price.

當然。我的意思是，我認為我們在專案方面的回報率設定在十幾歲左右，正如我們多次所說的那樣。我們根據專案的風險來上下調整。因此，這些將是非常好的回報，並且遠高於我們的資本成本。因此，當我們將目標回報設定在該門檻時，優先事項將優先於股票回購。話雖這麼說，當我們有多餘的現金流時，我們就會機會性地進行股票回購。因此，我們沒有無限的現金流來進行股票回購。因此，我們希望確保當我們這樣做時，我們能夠獲得非常有吸引力的價格。

Our next caller is Jean Ann Salisbury with Bernstein.

我們的下一個來電者是伯恩斯坦的讓安·索爾茲伯里。

I think a mine are for Tom. I know you've talked a bit on prior calls about rates for gas storage rising and getting close to $3. I wanted to understand how much of KMI's 700 Bcf of storage should eventually be able to reset up to these higher rates and the time line of that occurring?

我認為湯姆有一個地雷。我知道您在之前的電話會議上談到天然氣儲存費率上漲並接近 3 美元。我想了解 KMI 的 700 Bcf 儲存中有多少最終能夠重置到這些更高的速率以及發生這種情況的時間軸？

Yes. I mean I'll give you a high level and then let Sital step in for more clarity. But yes, I mean much of that capacity is a single-cycle reservoir storage, smaller percentage of that is salt storage, which is really what the multi-cycle storage facilities, which garner those higher rates. As you know, part of our storage is in regulated services. So there's limits as to what rate increases we can charge for those services. But what we're seeing in those instances, we're getting much longer term. And we also have also, as you know, power services, which are another way where we can extract additional value that may not be limited by regulatory caps.

是的。我的意思是，我會給你一個高水平，然後讓西塔爾介入以提供更清晰的信息。但是，是的，我的意思是，大部分容量是單循環水庫存儲，其中較小比例是鹽存儲，這實際上是多循環存儲設施的容量，它獲得了更高的利用率。如您所知，我們的部分儲存位於受監管的服務中。因此，我們對這些服務收取的費率上漲是有限的。但我們在這些情況下看到的情況是，我們的目標是長期的。如您所知，我們還提供電力服務，這是我們可以獲得不受監管上限限制的額外價值的另一種方式。

And so it's hard to put a number to answer your question. But we do think whether it's through salt service that we sell, fee-for-service or these opportunistic power services, both short term and long term, that we do, as well as getting additional duration on our single cycle storage services. We're getting additional value out of this growing trend in storage.

因此很難用一個數字來回答你的問題。但我們確實認為，無論是透過我們銷售的鹽服務、按服務收費或這些短期和長期的機會主義電力服務，以及我們的單週期儲存服務的額外期限。我們從儲存的這種成長趨勢中獲得了額外的價值。

That makes sense. Great. And my other question was about the Wyoming interstate projects that I saw in the release. Is that basically just using currently unused capacity on WIC for the 400. And then CFD, I was wondering if there's any material CapEx associated with that? Or it's just -- you just start moving flow on empty pipeline?

這就說得通了。偉大的。我的另一個問題是關於我在新聞稿中看到的懷俄明州州際公路計畫。這基本上只是使用 WIC 上目前未使用的容量來處理 400。然後 CFD，我想知道是否有任何與之相關的實質資本支出？或者只是——你剛開始在空管道上移動流量？

This is Sital. So really, from a Kinder standpoint, we've got the minimal capital, mostly interconnect capital. We've been working with our partners for a long time on this. We see Bakken GRs rising significantly. And this is an example of a collaborative project that maximizes infrastructure that's in existence today and on our side, very little capital.

這是西塔爾。事實上，從 Kinder 的角度來看，我們擁有最少的資本，主要是互連資本。我們與合作夥伴在這方面已經合作了很長時間。我們看到巴肯遺傳資源顯著上升。這是一個協作專案的例子，該專案最大限度地利用了現有的基礎設施，而我們這邊的資本卻很少。

Our next caller is Brian Reynolds with UBS.

我們的下一個來電者是瑞銀集團的布萊恩雷諾茲。

Maybe to start off a little high level on Kinder's positioning to support this 20% increase in natural gas demand by 2028 that you put in the release. It seems like Kinder is well positioned for this growth, but we could see CapEx trend higher of that $1 billion to $2 billion range. So some of these projects that are helping debottleneck the Texas, Louisiana corridor, GCX expansion and potential more Permian greenfield that's needed. Just kind of curious, high level, can you talk about the opportunity sets that Kinder has just given Kinder's prior comments of looking to maintain that 50% market share around LNG supply going forward?

也許是從金德的定位開始，以支持您在新聞稿中提出的 2028 年天然氣需求增加 20% 的目標。 Kinder 似乎已經為這種成長做好了充分的準備，但我們可以看到資本支出趨勢在 10 億至 20 億美元範圍內走高。因此，其中一些項目正在幫助解決德克薩斯州、路易斯安那州走廊、GCX 擴張以及潛在所需的更多二疊紀綠地的瓶頸。只是有點好奇，高層，您能談談金德剛剛給出的機會集嗎？金德之前的評論是希望在未來保持液化天然氣供應的 50% 市場份額？

Yes. I'll make a couple of high-level comments about the opportunity side and then Sital and Tom can add in. I think there's multiple opportunities on the LNG front. So you've got the next decade down in South Texas. So that is going to require incremental pipeline infrastructure probably. You've got multiple facilities coming in along the Texas, Louisiana border, and those -- a lot of -- some of those have existing header pipes, some of them don't. Some of them are wanting to reach further back. As a result of the sucking sound of LNG on the Gulf Coast, you have a southeast market that is short supply. And so there's opportunities to try to expand pipeline capacity into the Southeast to help meet some of the demand there.

是的。我將就機會方面發表一些高層評論，然後 Sital 和 Tom 可以補充。我認為液化天然氣方面存在多種機會。因此，德州南部的未來十年即將到來。因此，這可能需要增量管道基礎設施。德州和路易斯安那州邊境沿線有多個設施，其中許多設施有一些現有的總管，有些則沒有。他們中的一些人想要追溯得更遠。由於墨西哥灣沿岸液化天然氣的吸吮聲音，東南市場出現供應短缺。因此，我們有機會嘗試擴大東南部的管道容量，以幫助滿足那裡的部分需求。

There is opportunities for exports to Mexico. I think they're building a number of new power plants, which don't have supply yet, some of that's out on the West Coast of Mexico. So there's opportunity to serve that new power plant load. There's also LNG facilities that are going on the West Coast of Mexico. And so there's incremental opportunity there. In California, they've just announced that they're extending the life of their natural gas facilities and they're increasing the capacity of Aliso Canyon. And so I think people are understanding that natural gas is going to play a big role for a longer period of time than what some people out there previously thought.

有向墨西哥出口的機會。我認為他們正在建造一些新的發電廠，但目前還沒有供應，其中一些位於墨西哥西海岸。因此，有機會為新的發電廠負載提供服務。墨西哥西海岸也有液化天然氣設施正在興建中。所以那裡有更多的機會。在加州，他們剛剛宣布將延長天然氣設施的使用壽命，並增加阿利索峽谷的容量。因此，我認為人們正在了解天然氣將在比一些人之前想像的更長的時間內發揮重要作用。

We're seeing, as Tom talked through all the power demand, we're still seeing some coal conversions to natural gas, which is driving demand. And then there's industrial growth on the Texas Gulf Coast. And so I think there are a number of -- there are a number of different factors driving the growth, but I think most of it is in the southern market. It's really hard to get infrastructure built into the Northeast. And so WoodMac shows 90% to 95% of the demand growth in natural gas occurring in Texas and Louisiana.

正如湯姆談到的所有電力需求一樣，我們看到，我們仍然看到一些煤炭轉化為天然氣，這推動了需求。然後是德克薩斯州墨西哥灣沿岸的工業成長。因此，我認為有很多不同的因素推動了成長，但我認為其中大部分是在南方市場。東北地區基礎建設確實很難。因此，WoodMac 顯示 90% 至 95% 的天然氣需求成長發生在德州和路易斯安那州。

I think the only thing I'll add to that, we're -- when you think about the competitive landscape, we're heavily competitive, right? And so I think what differentiates us is our network. I think what we'll bring to the table is our on-system storage, our balancing capabilities, and then more recently, we've been focused on expanding our ability to aggregate nitrogen. And I think that's what's going to help differentiate us from the competition.

我想我唯一要補充的是，當你考慮競爭格局時，我們的競爭非常激烈，對吧？所以我認為我們的與眾不同之處在於我們的網路。我認為我們將帶來的是我們的系統儲存、我們的平衡能力，然後最近，我們一直專注於擴大我們聚合氮的能力。我認為這將有助於我們在競爭中脫穎而出。

Yes. The other thing I'd say is that helps differentiate is the fact that we can provide shippers with multiple different outlets. So if an LNG shipper -- if the international markets change and the ships go somewhere else, we can, given the pipeline system that we have can help them redirect those flows if they have storage service into storage, but if they don't have storage service to other markets.

是的。我想說的另一件事是，我們可以為托運人提供多個不同的銷售點，這有助於實現差異化。因此，如果液化天然氣托運人——如果國際市場發生變化並且船舶前往其他地方，我們可以，因為我們擁有的管道系統可以幫助他們重定向這些流量，如果他們有存儲服務進入存儲，但如果他們沒有向其他市場提供儲存服務。

Great. Maybe as my follow-up to touch on just the CapEx backlog build multiple. It's got a lot of focus over the previous few quarters. So it seemed to trend a little bit higher this quarter with an increase of the backlog as well. So just kind of wondering if you can talk about the moving pieces there, whether it's new projects driving it or whether the rising rate environment is having an impact on future returns? Any color would be helpful.

偉大的。也許我的後續行動只是涉及資本支出積壓建構倍數。在過去的幾個季度中，它受到了很多關注。因此，隨著積壓訂單的增加，本季的趨勢似乎有所上升。因此，我想知道您是否可以談談那裡的變化，是否是新項目推動，或者利率上升環境是否對未來回報產生影響？任何顏色都會有幫助。

Sure. Absolutely. So one, let me start with the fact, and we talked a little bit about this last quarter that the backlog multiple is not our focus. What we focus on is the return on projects. And so -- and we run a long-term cash flow and assume a terminal value or not and assume a renewal or a partial renewal or not. And for you guys, what we do and the backlog is we just look at first year EBITDA and translate that into a multiple to try to help you understand sort of what these projects are going to generate.

當然。絕對地。所以，讓我從一個事實開始，我們在上個季度討論了一些問題，即積壓倍數不是我們的重點。我們關注的是項目的回報。因此，我們運行長期現金流，並假設是否有終值，並假設是否有更新或部分更新。對你們來說，我們所做的和積壓的工作只是查看第一年的 EBITDA 並將其轉化為倍數，以試圖幫助你們了解這些項目將產生什麼。

But the way -- so all I'm saying is that the multiple may move up or down on the backlog and these are still very attractive projects. So it's not like we only do projects that come into the backlog at 3x. And again, with kind of a mid-teens average unlevered IRR, and we're adjusting up or down that slightly based on cash flow risk. But this quarter, what we saw was the projects that went into service were about roughly 3x multiple the projects that we placed into the backlog, so that the added projects were about a 4x multiple.

但是，我想說的是，積壓的倍數可能會上升或下降，而這些仍然是非常有吸引力的項目。所以我們並不是只做積壓 3 倍的項目。再說一遍，平均無槓桿 IRR 約為 15 左右，我們將根據現金流量風險略微上調或下調。但本季度，我們看到投入使用的項目大約是我們放入積壓項目的 3 倍，因此添加的項目約為 4 倍。

And then on 1 of the existing projects in the backlog, we decreased the year 1 EBITDA. And the reason we did that was because we think that project is going to take a little longer time to ramp into the EBITDA. And so we'll get -- we think we'll get to the EBITDA that was in the backlog. It just won't happen until later in time. It won't be year 1. Now even if we never ramped on that project, that project is still a very attractive return. And I think we feel pretty good that we are going to add incremental volume there.

然後，對於積壓中的現有項目 1，我們減少了第一年的 EBITDA。我們這樣做的原因是我們認為該專案需要更長的時間才能實現 EBITDA。所以我們會得到——我們認為我們會得到積壓的 EBITDA。只是要到晚些時候才會發生。這不會是第一年。現在，即使我們從未加大該專案的力度，該專案仍然是一個非常有吸引力的回報。我認為我們感覺很好，我們將在那裡增加增量。

Our next call is Tristan Richardson with Scotiabank.

我們的下一個電話是豐業銀行的特里斯坦·理查森。

I guess just given the growth you guys you're seeing in the core transport business and certainly, volumes are growing in midstream, but as you said, volumes are a little below plan, and you guys are working on asset sales. I mean, do you see midstream continuing to contribute less to the business maybe as a percent over time, especially as we kind of look into next year?

我想，考慮到你們在核心運輸業務中看到的成長，當然，中游的數量也在增長，但正如你們所說，數量略低於計劃，而且你們正在致力於資產銷售。我的意思是，您是否認為隨著時間的推移，中游對業務的貢獻可能會繼續減少，尤其是在我們展望明年的時候？

And so when you say midstream, are you -- you're separating out the gathering and processing from all the Texas Intrastate business, which is also in midstream?

因此，當您說中游時，您是否將收集和處理與所有同樣位於中游的德克薩斯州內業務分開？

Correct.

正確的。

Particularly focused on gathering and processing.

特別注重採集和加工。

Yes.

是的。

I think the gathering and processing is going to decrease as a percentage of the overall business. I don't know the answer as a percentage of the overall business. What I can tell you is I don't anticipate the gathering and processing the EBITDA from gathering and processing on the natural gas side is going down, because we -- natural gas demand is growing, and we're going to continue to need more natural gas molecules. And our biggest position is in the Haynesville and in the Eagle Ford. And those are 2 places that are very close to the LNG demand. And as Rich and Sital have both mentioned, Eagle Ford has some gas -- has some very nice characteristics in that it has low nitrogen. And so I think that -- I think I would continue to expect to see growth in the volumes coming out of those basins.

我認為收集和處理佔整體業務的比例將會下降。我不知道答案佔整體業務的百分比。我可以告訴你的是，我預計天然氣方面的收集和加工產生的 EBITDA 不會下降，因為我們——天然氣需求正在增長，而且我們將繼續需要更多天然氣分子。我們最大的陣地是在海恩斯維爾和伊格爾福特。這兩個地方非常接近液化天然氣需求。正如里奇和西塔爾都提到的那樣，伊格爾福特有一些氣體——具有一些非常好的特性，因為它含有低氮。所以我認為——我認為我會繼續期望看到這些盆地的產量成長。

Yes. I mean I think the relative comparison as you secure some of these large projects, you might see a differential in overall percentage. But I think Kim is right, when we look at our gathering and processing systems, Bakken constrained, Eagle Ford approaching full processing capacity. And in the Haynesville, we're trying to keep up. And so I think that trend will continue as we see these LNG facilities come on. And as far as the proportionate -- the relative proportion, it all depends on if we're successful in getting these big LNG feeder projects in the line, and those are obviously material.

是的。我的意思是，我認為當您確保其中一些大型項目的相對比較時，您可能會看到總體百分比的差異。但我認為金是對的，當我們審視我們的收集和處理系統時，巴肯受到限制，鷹福特接近完全處理能力。在海恩斯維爾，我們正在努力跟上。因此，我認為當我們看到這些液化天然氣設施投入使用時，這種趨勢將會持續下去。至於比例——相對比例，這完全取決於我們是否成功地讓這些大型液化天然氣支線專案上線，而這些專案顯然是重要的。

So on the Haynesville being constrained, that means there's going to be opportunities for new projects as that volume increase on the processing capacity at -- being at capacity on processing in the Eagle Ford. There may be opportunities to charge incremental rate there. So just to clarify what Sital was saying.

因此，海恩斯維爾受到限制，這意味著隨著鷹福特加工能力的增加，新項目將有機會。那裡可能有機會收取增量費率。只是為了澄清西塔爾所說的話。

Appreciate it. And then a quick follow-up. Just on the energy transition venture side, maybe top of the funnel, commercial activity you're seeing around RNG maybe just a sense of overall potential capacity projects out there, particularly as you get past 2024 and Autumn Hills comes online?

欣賞它。然後快速跟進。就能源轉型風險投資方面而言，也許是漏斗的頂部，您在 RNG 周圍看到的商業活動可能只是對整體潛在產能項目的一種感覺，特別是當您過了 2024 年並且 Autumn Hills 上線時？

Yes. Tristan, it's Anthony. Yes. So as we look 2024 and beyond, we do have some additional projects within the North American natural acquisition, landfill gas and electric projects, which are potential RNG conversion opportunities. And so now we've got a little bit more clarity from the EPA on the RINs potential, we are now looking at those potential projects again. And we have a few other ones, I would say, that we're looking at in terms of organic growth potential, but our focus has really been getting our existing projects up and in service and operating well and going through the wind generation process. But yes, we do have some potential opportunities beyond Autumn Hills.

是的。特里斯坦，是安東尼。是的。因此，展望 2024 年及以後，我們在北美自然收購、垃圾掩埋氣和電力項目中確實有一些額外的項目，這些都是潛在的 RNG 轉換機會。現在我們從 EPA 那裡得到了關於 RIN 潛力的更多信息，我們現在正在再次研究這些潛在項目。我想說，我們還有其他一些項目，我們正在考慮有機成長潛力，但我們的重點實際上是讓我們現有的項目投入使用、運作良好，並完成風力發電過程。但是，是的，除了秋山之外，我們確實還有一些潛在的機會。

And just on the facilities, I mean for an update there, 2 of the 3 that we're bringing in service this year are in service. One, we've had a few operational issues. We think we've largely worked through. The other 1 is ramping up. And the third 1 we expect to be on by the end of the year.

就設施而言，我的意思是更新一下，我們今年投入使用的 3 個設施中，有 2 個已經投入使用。第一，我們遇到了一些營運問題。我們認為我們已經基本上解決了這個問題。另外1個正在加速。我們預計第三個項目將在今年底推出。

Our next caller is Neal Dingmann with Truist Securities.

我們的下一個來電者是 Truist Securities 的 Neal Dingmann。

You talked a bit about M&A. I guess my question is just perhaps on near-term M&A. I'm just wondering how you all would think about potentially adding natural gas pipelines, various other assets. I'm just wondering given your current footprint, is there a preference? Or are you sort of agnostic on looking at various assets?

您談到了一些關於併購的問題。我想我的問題可能只是關於近期的併購。我只是想知道你們會如何考慮增加天然氣管道和各種其他資產。我只是想知道，考慮到您目前的足跡，是否有偏好？還是您對各種資產持不可知論態度？

Yes. I think that acquisitions are easy to imagine and hard to do. And so I think that it's more -- acquisitions are more opportunistic is what I would say for the most part. And yes, we are always interested in acquisitions and have been since our inception, and we have a pretty disciplined process around looking at it. There are 3 criteria that are core for us to do an acquisition. One, the asset has to fit our strategy. So it needs to be fee-based, energy infrastructure. Two, it needs to have the right attractive economics around it, which means it needs to be accretive to DCF per share and have an attractive unlevered after-tax return. And three, it can't be -- we prefer that it not be dilutive to our long-term debt metric of 4.5x debt to EBITDA.

是的。我認為收購很容易想像，但很難做到。所以我認為，收購更具機會主義，這是我在很大程度上想說的。是的，我們一直對收購感興趣，自我們成立以來一直如此，我們有一個非常嚴格的流程來看待它。我們進行收購的核心標準有 3 個。第一，資產必須符合我們的策略。因此它需要收費的能源基礎設施。第二，它需要有合適的、有吸引力的經濟背景，這意味著它需要增加每股折現現金流，並具有有吸引力的無槓桿稅後回報。第三，它不可能——我們希望它不會稀釋我們的長期債務指標，即債務與 EBITDA 的 4.5 倍。

And generally, I don't think we would do something that is relative to that debt metric. It would have to be something that was very, very special.

一般來說，我認為我們不會做與債務指標相關的事情。它必須是非常非常特別的東西。

That all makes sense. And then, Kim, I think you mentioned earlier, you mentioned something about the RIN price. I'm just wondering, did you say you saw this increase in or maybe also could you speak to the direction of your -- of the D3 rents?

這一切都是有道理的。然後，Kim，我想你之前提到過，你提到了一些關於 RIN 價格的事情。我只是想知道，您是否說您看到了 D3 租金的增長，或者您是否也可以談談您的 D3 租金的方向？

On the D3 rent, they have gone to $3.40 right now, I think. So they were below $2 before June when the EPA came out with the new RBOs. Post that, they traded in and around $3. And in the last week or so, we've seen them go up to $3.40. And hard to pinpoint exactly what that is, but I think there may be people out there that haven't satisfied their '22 obligations yet, and that could be driving some of the '23 pricing. So I think RINs prices right now look pretty good for 2024.

我想，D3 的租金現在已經漲到 3.40 美元了。因此，在 6 月 EPA 推出新的 RBO 之前，它們的價格低於 2 美元。之後，他們的交易價格約為 3 美元。在過去一周左右的時間裡，我們看到它們漲到了 3.40 美元。很難準確指出這是什麼，但我認為可能有人尚未履行其 22 年義務，這可能會推動部分 23 定價。因此，我認為目前的 RIN 價格對於 2024 年來說相當不錯。

Our next call is Keith Stanley with Wolfe Research.

我們的下一個電話是沃爾夫研究公司的基斯‧史丹利。

Sorry if I missed this, but any updated comments on the potential to expand Gulf Coast Express and where things are in discussions with customers and how soon that could move forward.

抱歉，如果我錯過了這一點，但是關於墨西哥灣沿岸快車擴張潛力的最新評論，以及與客戶討論的情況以及進展的速度。

Yes. We continue to have discussions with customers and -- which is kind of where we were last quarter at this time. And I think there are people that are interested in that, but we don't have anything to announce yet.

是的。我們繼續與客戶進行討論——這就是我們上個季度此時的情況。我認為有人對此感興趣，但我們還沒有任何消息要宣布。

Okay. Second question, just on the 2023 commentary of being slightly below plan. It just -- it seems to me like the company was pretty much on budget in the first half of 2023 on the EBITDA line anyway. And Q3, maybe less than $50 million below budget. I mean, are we talking, when we're saying slightly below plan that maybe even like less than 1% below the EBITDA target? It just seems kind of small with you guys calling it out.

好的。第二個問題，只是關於2023年略低於計畫的評論。在我看來，無論如何，該公司 2023 年上半年的 EBITDA 幾乎都在預算之內。第三季度，可能比預算低不到 5,000 萬美元。我的意思是，當我們說略低於計劃甚至比 EBITDA 目標低不到 1% 時，我們是在談論嗎？你們大聲喊出來，似乎有點小。

Yes. Keith, it's David. Yes, it's -- that's why we said slightly below. It's not a material amount below. It's disappointing that we are below because we're having really strong performance across a number of categories in our base business. The commodity price impact is less impactful now that we've seen some improvement. But as we go through the year, we put on additional hedges and so forth. So we have less upside as the later part of the year improvement in commodity prices materialize. And we've continued to have some weakness in other parts of the business that offset some of that commodity price improvement.

是的。基思，我是大衛。是的，這就是我們在下面說的原因。下面並不是一個實質的金額。令人失望的是，我們的排名低於，因為我們在基礎業務的多個類別中都取得了非常強勁的表現。由於我們已經看到了一些改善，大宗商品價格的影響已不再那麼大。但隨著這一年的過去，我們會採取額外的對沖措施等等。因此，隨著今年下半年大宗商品價格的改善成為現實，我們的上漲空間將會減少。我們的其他業務領域繼續存在一些弱點，抵消了部分商品價格的上漲。

So net-net, it's -- unfortunately, I don't have additional detail for you with regard to a slightly determination. But yes, it's disappointing that we're still a little bit down, but it's not much.

所以，不幸的是，我沒有為您提供更多關於稍微確定的細節。但是，是的，令人失望的是我們仍然有一點下降，但並不嚴重。

Gabe Moreen with Mizuho, you may go ahead, sir.

加布·莫林（Gabe Moreen）和瑞穗（Mizuho），您可以繼續，先生。

Just a quick question on the fixed to floating and then back to fixed hedges, which you've got on, some of which are expiring soon. Just wondering how you're thinking about that with some of the hedges expiring in the not-too-distant future for interest expense for next year?

只是一個關於固定對沖，然後回到固定對沖的簡單問題，您已經得到了這些對沖，其中一些即將到期。只是想知道您如何看待一些對沖在不久的將來到期以支付明年的利息費用？

So we have about 25% of our deficit float. For 2023, we locked in about half of that. So we -- our floating rate for 2023, it was about 13%. Those hedges that we put on the '23 expired at the end of '23. And so you would expect us to go back to 25%. But we do have swaps that roll off in 2023 and swaps that roll off in 2024. Those swaps totaled $2.75 billion. We have not made a decision yet as to whether we will put swaps back -- put swaps on when those expire or just stay more fixed. We would -- if we just let all those swaps expire, did not put on any new swaps, we would be at 15% or 16% floating percentage.

因此，我們的赤字約有 25% 是浮動的。到 2023 年，我們鎖定了大約一半的目標。所以我們 2023 年的浮動利率約為 13%。我們對 23 年採取的避險措施在 23 年底到期。所以你會期望我們回到 25%。但我們確實有 2023 年滾動的掉期和 2024 年滾動的掉期。這些掉期總額為 27.5 億美元。我們還沒有決定是否要恢復掉期──在掉期到期時恢復掉期，或只是保持更固定。如果我們只是讓所有這些掉期到期，不進行任何新的掉期，我們的浮動百分比將是 15% 或 16%。

The -- our long-term strategy has been to float on a portion of our debt because the forward curve has generally overestimated future floating rates. And so we've made -- through last year, we've made $1.2 billion over the last 10 years on those swaps. This year, we gave back about $200 million. So we made about $1 billion. The 1 exception to -- that we've seen in the charts to the forward curve over predicting floating rates has been when you've been in a rate hike cycle. And so I think we're going to be flexible as to when we put new swaps back on.

我們的長期策略是部分債務浮動，因為遠期曲線普遍高估了未來的浮動利率。因此，截至去年，我們在過去 10 年透過這些掉期交易賺了 12 億美元。今年，我們回饋了約 2 億美元。所以我們賺了大約 10 億美元。我們在圖表中看到的預測浮動利率的遠期曲線的第一個例外是當您處於升息週期時。因此，我認為我們將在何時恢復新的互換方面保持靈活性。

So I think there's a reasonable likelihood that we may be at a lower floating percentage than 25% in 2024. And may wait for a period of time to put some new swaps back on. But in the future -- in the longer term, we may decide to put some of those swaps back on, but in no event do I think we would go above the 25%.

因此，我認為 2024 年我們的浮動百分比很可能會低於 25%。並且可能會等待一段時間才能重新啟用一些新的掉期。但在未來——從長遠來看，我們可能會決定重新啟用其中一些掉期，但在任何情況下我認為我們都不會超過 25%。

And then maybe if I can follow up with another question around the LNG opportunity and whether Kinder Morgan sees the need to perhaps develop more of a marketing presence outside the intrastates to aggregate supply for some of these pipeline opportunities around LNG and similarly, whether there's any thought to taking stakes in LNG export facilities yourselves to sort of marry up an integrated approach.

然後，也許我可以跟進有關液化天然氣機會的另一個問題，以及金德摩根是否認為有必要在州內之外發展更多的營銷存在，以聚集液化天然氣周圍的一些管道機會的供應，類似地，是否有任何考慮自己入股液化天然氣出口設施，以某種方式結合綜合方法。

Yes. So we actually do have a small gas marketing business right now and not really focused on LNG opportunities exclusively, but really just opportunities across the domestic market largely off of our assets. We'll see if there's incremental opportunities there. We may consider that, as you suggest. But I mean, we don't -- I don't see us going into an international market. That really hasn't been our footprint and our strategy. But we'll be open to consider things as opportunities develop, and we'll see where things go from there.

是的。因此，我們現在確實擁有小型天然氣行銷業務，並不是真正專注於液化天然氣機會，而實際上只是國內市場的機會，很大程度上來自我們的資產。我們將看看那裡是否有更多的機會。我們可能會考慮按照您的建議。但我的意思是，我們不——我不認為我們會進入國際市場。這確實不是我們的足跡和我們的策略。但隨著機會的發展，我們將持開放態度考慮這些事情，我們將看看事情的發展方向。

As far as our own LNG taking space out and an LNG facility, again, there's a lot of capital and a lot of risk related to doing that. And so we have tended to be more fee-for-service and provide LNG both capacity -- transportation capacity and as it pertains to Elba Island export facility for our customers to play in the international markets. And I don't see that changing much, if at all.

就我們自己的液化天然氣騰出空間和液化天然氣設施而言，這樣做需要大量資金和大量風險。因此，我們傾向於更多地按服務收費，並提供液化天然氣的能力——運輸能力以及與厄爾巴島出口設施相關的能力，以便我們的客戶在國際市場上發揮作用。我認為這種情況不會有太大改變（如果有的話）。

Our next caller is Zack (inaudible) with [DPH & Company].

我們的下一個來電者是 [DPH & Company] 的紮克（聽不清楚）。

Just want to go back up to the Bakken after seeing the announcements on the gas side, have you guys looked into or considered converting the HH pipeline to an NGL pipe to help diversify some of the takeaway options up there?

只是想在看到天然氣方面的公告後回到巴肯，你們是否研究過或考慮將 HH 管道轉換為 NGL 管道，以幫助那裡的一些外賣選擇多樣化？

We have, yes. We've -- and this is Dax. We've looked at several different options for repurposing that being one of them. And -- we are -- we continue to transport crude on the pipe. It's becoming more largely. We've got about 30 a day of residual contracts on that. It's becoming -- as those contracts roll, it's becoming more of a basis pipeline, which obviously has an incremental element of risk around it, but that's certainly something we would consider with the right deal.

我們有，是的。我們——這是達克斯。我們研究了幾種不同的選擇來重新調整用途，這是其中之一。而且 - 我們 - 我們繼續透過管道運輸原油。它變得越來越大。我們每天大約有 30 個剩餘合約。隨著這些合約的滾動，它正在變得更像是一個基礎管道，這顯然會增加風險因素，但這肯定是我們在正確的交易中會考慮的事情。

Got you. And then if you were to convert that, could we assume it's a similar capacity with NGLs? And are there any opportunities to expand that at all if you were to go that route?

明白你了。然後如果你要轉換它，我們可以假設它與 NGL 有類似的容量嗎？如果你要走那條路，是否有機會擴大這個範圍？

It depends on what you put it in. But ultimately, I think if it's still in liquid service, if you do NGLs, maybe a little bit more capacity with some pumps adds but still early.

這取決於你把它放進去的東西。但最終，我認為如果它仍然處於液體服務中，如果你做液化天然氣，也許會增加一些泵的容量，但還為時過早。

Yes. It's just like any time we have an underutilized asset. We're looking for other opportunities to utilize, I think this one is pretty early.

是的。就像我們擁有未充分利用的資產的任何時候一樣。我們正在尋找其他可以利用的機會，我認為這個還為時過早。

Sunil Sibal with Seaport Global Securities.

蘇尼爾西巴爾 (Sunil Sibal)，海港環球證券公司 (Seaport Global Securities) 的合夥人。

I apologize if I missed this. But I just wanted to touch upon what kind of sequential trends you saw in Q3 with regard to your gas gathering volumes in various basins and also on the crude and condensate systems.

如果我錯過了這一點，我深表歉意。但我只是想談談您在第三季度看到的關於各個盆地以及原油和凝析油系統的天然氣收集量的連續趨勢。

Sequential volumes. Hang on a second. Sequential volumes on gas gathering, they were down 1%, and they were down 1% on crude. So kind of flattish on a sequential basis.

連續卷。稍等一下。天然氣採集量連續下降 1%，原油下降 1%。依序來看有點扁平。

And that's fairly representative across the basin?

這在整個流域具有相當的代表性嗎？

They're different basins. And so that is total for Kinder Morgan. So in gas, that would be -- the primary basins would be Eagle Ford, Bakken, Haynesville, and some of those were up a little bit and some were down a little bit in net -- I mean, if minus 1, I could say that's kind of flattish, but down slightly. And on the crude, it's primarily Bakken.

它們是不同的盆地。這就是金德摩根的全部。所以在天然氣方面，主要盆地是 Eagle Ford、Bakken、Haynesville，其中一些盆地的淨值上升了一點，有些盆地的淨值下降了一點——我的意思是，如果負 1，我可以說是有點平坦，但稍微向下。就原油而言，主要是巴肯。

And at this time, I am showing no further questions.

此時，我沒有再提出任何問題。

Okay. Michelle, thank you very much. And everybody, have a good day and a good evening. Thank you.

好的。米歇爾，非常感謝你。祝大家有美好的一天和美好的夜晚。謝謝。

And thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may go ahead and disconnect at this time.

謝謝你。今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以繼續並斷開連線。