Korn Ferry (KFY) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the Korn Ferry third-quarter fiscal year 2025 conference call.

女士們、先生們，感謝大家的支持，歡迎參加光輝國際 2025 財年第三季電話會議。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded for replay purposes.

提醒一下，本次電話會議正在錄音，以便重播。

We have also made available in the Investor Relations section of our website at kornferry.com a copy of the financial presentation that we will be reviewing with you today.

我們也在我們的網站 kornferry.com 的投資者關係部分提供了一份我們將在今天與您一起審查的財務報告副本。

Before I turn the call over to your host, Mr. Gary Burnison, let me first read a cautionary statement to investors. Certain statements made in the call today, such as those relating to future performance, plans and goals, constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Although the company believes the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are based on reasonable assumptions, investors are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such statements. Actual results in future periods may differ materially from those currently expected or desired because of a number of risks and uncertainties which are beyond the company's control. Additional information concerning such risks and uncertainties can be found in the release relating to this presentation and in the periodic and other reports filed by the company with the SEC, including the company's annual report for fiscal year 2024 in the company's soon to be filed quarterly report for the quarter end of January 31, 2025. Also some of the comments made today may reference non-GAAP financial measures such as constant currency amounts, EBITDA, and adjusted EBITDA. Additional information concerning these measures, including reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure, is contained in the financial presentation and earnings release relating to this call, both of which are posted in the Investor Relations section of the company's website at www.kornferry.com.

在我將電話轉給主持人加里·伯尼森先生之前，請允許我先向投資者宣讀警告聲明。今天電話會議上所做的某些聲明，例如有關未來績效、計畫和目標的聲明，構成了 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》所定義的前瞻性聲明。儘管公司認為此類前瞻性陳述所反映的預期是基於合理假設的，但仍告誡投資者不要過度依賴此類陳述。由於一系列超出公司控制範圍的風險和不確定因素，未來期間的實際結果可能與目前預期或期望的結果有重大差異。有關此類風險和不確定性的更多信息，可在與本簡報相關的新聞稿以及公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期報告和其他報告中找到，包括公司 2024 財年的年度報告和公司即將提交的截至 2025 年 1 月 31 日季度的季度報告。此外，今天的一些評論可能參考非 GAAP 財務指標，例如固定匯率金額、EBITDA 和調整後的 EBITDA。有關這些指標的更多信息，包括與最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的對賬，包含在與本次電話會議相關的財務報告和收益報告內，二者均發佈在公司網站 www.kornferry.com 的投資者關係部分。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Mr. Burnison. Please go ahead, Mr. Burnison.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給伯尼森先生。請繼續，伯尼森先生。

Okay. Thanks, Rob, and good afternoon.

好的。謝謝，羅布，下午好。

Thanks for joining us. The team's going to get into our results in more detail, but overall, our execution has been outstanding. Korn Ferry drives our clients' organizational performance, and we continue to see demand for organizational and workforce transformations that are larger in scale and scope.

感謝您的加入。團隊將更詳細地介紹我們的結果，但總體而言，我們的執行情況非常出色。光輝國際致力於推動客戶的組織績效，我們不斷看到對更大規模和更廣泛的組織和勞動力轉型的需求。

In the quarter, we won significant transformation engagements, including a global energy company spanning 60,000 employees and wide-reaching leadership programs covering thousands of employees as one of the world's largest employers, as well as a leading global insurer. These engagements are meant to drive strategic transformation.

在本季度，我們贏得了重大的轉型項目，包括一家擁有 60,000 名員工的全球能源公司，以及作為全球最大雇主之一的覆蓋數千名員工的廣泛領導力計劃，以及一家領先的全球保險公司。這些合作旨在推動策略轉型。

And probably large post-merger integration solutions at a number of global household brands. These are just to name a few, but clearly illustrate the breadth and scale of today's Korn Ferry and demonstrate the power of our business and the strength of our diversification.

並且可能為許多全球家居品牌提供大型併購後整合解決方案。這些只是其中的幾個，但卻清楚地說明了當今光輝國際的廣度和規模，並展示了我們業務的實力和多元化的實力。

We do enable people and organizations to be more than. Clearly, the macroeconomic environment for consulting services has been less than ideal over the last eight quarters. But when one examines the durability of our consolidated revenue, it is very clear that our strategy is definitely winning.

我們確實使人們和組織能夠超越自我。顯然，過去八個季度諮詢服務的宏觀經濟環境不太理想。但當我們檢視我們合併收入的持久性時，就會發現我們的策略絕對是成功的。

The broadness of our solutions counterbalance each other, providing a durable growth foundation for tomorrow, not to mention the higher levels of profitability and balanced approach to capital allocation. And we are raising our dividend to shareholders. This diversification was evident once again during the quarter.

我們解決方案的廣泛性相互抵消，為未來提供了持久的成長基礎，更不用說更高的獲利水準和均衡的資本配置方法。我們正在提高股東股利。本季度，這種多樣化再次顯現出來。

With total company new business, 13% up driven by the Americas in EMEA. When one taps Google Earth, tomorrow's macro environment will be in circle. By a length supply, demand and balance requiring companies to reimagine and reskill their workforce, employ, develop, promote, and retain talent, as well as embrace technologies that bridge that labor imbalance, all of which presents tremendous opportunity for Korn Ferry.

公司新業務總額中，歐洲、中東和非洲地區美洲業務成長了 13%。當人們點擊谷歌地球時，明天的宏觀環境將呈現圓形。透過長期供應、需求和平衡，企業需要重新構想和重新培訓其勞動力，僱用、發展、提拔和留住人才，以及採用彌合勞動力不平衡的技術，所有這些都為光輝國際提供了巨大的機會。

Our strategy has indeed taken hold. We are purposefully aligning our capabilities in larger addressable markets. As a firm, we are now more versatile provider of wide ranging organizational and talent solutions. This evolution has changed the fundamental composition and scale of our business as we drive more sustainable large scale client engagements.

我們的策略確實已經奏效。我們正在有目的地將我們的能力擴展到更大的潛在市場。作為一家公司，我們現在是更廣泛的組織和人才解決方案的多功能提供者。隨著我們推動更永續的大規模客戶合作，這種轉變改變了我們業務的基本組成和規模。

Proof positive, our marquee and diamond accounts now represent 39% of our portfolio, and nearly all of our marquee clients are benefiting from at least three of our solution areas. The breadth, depth, and scale of our firm, expertise and offerings puts us in a category of one.

的確鑿的證據表明，我們的大型帳戶和鑽石帳戶目前占我們投資組合的 39%，幾乎所有大型客戶都受益於我們至少三個解決方案領域。我們公司的廣度、深度和規模、專業知識和產品使我們獨樹一幟。

And we are well-positioned for the future. We are firm driving opportunity through a team-based client management approach, yielding substantial client engagement, an organization with an immense cachet of IP and insights, a brand that has incredible license operating at the highest level of global organizations as we enable people and organizations to be more than.

我們已經為未來做好準備了。我們是一家透過以團隊為基礎的客戶管理方式來推動機會的公司，獲得了大量的客戶參與，是一家擁有巨大知識產權和洞察力的組織，是一家擁有令人難以置信的許可的品牌，可以在全球組織的最高層面上運營，因為我們使個人和組織能夠做到更多。

And a business that has grown in current and adjacent verticals, further reducing our overall volatility and generating more predictable, visible, and recurring revenue. Validating the confidence we have in our business and our positive outlook for future earnings and cash flow, we will increase our quarterly dividend of 30%, which is the 6th increase in our dividends in the last five years.

並且業務在當前和相鄰的垂直領域都有所增長，進一步降低了我們的整體波動性並產生了更可預測、更可見和更經常的收入。為了驗證我們對業務的信心以及對未來利潤和現金流的積極展望，我們將把季度股息提高 30%，這是我們過去五年來第六次增加股息。

We are well on our way to becoming the undisputed leader in powering organizational performance through town. By steering into the turn, we've aligned our business strategy, operations, and talent to drive performance and deliver meaningful impact and measurable results for our clients.

我們正朝著成為推動城鎮組織績效的無可爭議的領導者的方向前進。透過轉向，我們調整了業務策略、營運和人才，以推動績效並為我們的客戶提供有意義的影響和可衡量的成果。

With that, I'll now turn it over to Bob.

現在我將把發言權交給鮑伯。

Okay. Good morning, good afternoon, everybody.

好的。大家早安，下午好。

We are pleased with our results for the third quarter, which exceeded our expectations and really demonstrate the power of integrating our rich and unique IP data and content into solutions that drive organizational performance through talent.

我們對第三季的業績感到滿意，這超出了我們的預期，並真正展示了將我們豐富而獨特的 IP 數據和內容整合到透過人才推動組織績效的解決方案中的力量。

The unique value our firm provides is really realized when we align and collaborate, when we show up as and we are Korn Ferry. In the third quarter, we continue to see a positive inflection in executive search and RPO growth, and our profitability remains strong with year over year growth in adjusted EBITDA margins in all solutions.

當我們齊心協力、通力合作，當我們以光輝國際的身份出現時，我們公司所提供的獨特價值才得以真正實現。在第三季度，我們繼續看到高階主管搜尋和RPO成長的積極變化，我們的獲利能力保持強勁，所有解決方案的調整後EBITDA利潤率同比增長。

Now turning to company-wide highlights. Fee revenue in the third quarter was $669 million. That's a 2% year over year increase at constant currency. Our earnings and profitability continue to grow. Adjusted EBITDA increased 13% year over year to $114 million.

現在來談談全公司的亮點。第三季的費用收入為6.69億美元。以固定匯率計算，年增 2%。我們的收益和獲利能力持續成長。調整後 EBITDA 年成長 13% 至 1.14 億美元。

Adjusted EBITDA margin increased by an impressive 190 basis points year over year to 17.1% and adjusted EPS increased 11% year over year to $1.19. As Gary discussed, total company new business grew 13% year over year at constant currency, and that included $210 million of RPO new business, of which 65% was generated from new logos or new clients, which is really important to fuel future growth.

調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率較去年同期大幅增加 190 個基點，達到 17.1%，調整後的 EPS 年成長 11%，達到 1.19 美元。正如 Gary 所討論的，以固定匯率計算，公司新業務總額年增 13％，其中包括 2.1 億美元的 RPO 新業務，其中 65％ 來自新標誌或新客戶，這對於推動未來成長至關重要。

Excluding RPO, new business in the third quarter was up 1% at constant currency with particular strength in EMEA. We continue to diligently execute our go to market activities. Marquee and diamond accounts remain strong, very strong, at 39% of our total consolidated fee revenue.

不包括RPO，第三季的新業務以固定匯率計算成長了1％，其中歐洲、中東和非洲地區的表現尤為強勁。我們將繼續勤勉地執行我們的市場活動。大型客戶和鑽石客戶依然保持強勁，非常強勁，占我們總合併費用收入的 39%。

Our cross solution referrals also held strong at 25% of total consolidated fee revenue, and we continue to see success with the integration of our recent interim acquisitions, achieving now close to 1,100 cross referrals into or from interim since our first acquisition in 2021.

我們的交叉解決方案推薦也保持強勁，佔總合併費用收入的 25%，並且我們繼續成功整合我們最近的臨時收購，自 2021 年首次收購以來，現已實現近 1,100 次交叉推薦。

As we signaled in our Q2 earnings call, during Q3, we began to ramp up our investment hiring, bringing on almost 25 new fee earners in the quarter. Last, we continued our balanced approach to capital allocation. During the third quarter, we invested back into the business, spending approximately $45 million on the Trilogy acquisition.

正如我們在第二季財報電話會議上所暗示的那樣，在第三季度，我們開始加強投資招募力度，本季新增了近 25 名收費人員。最後，我們繼續採取平衡的資本配置方法。第三季度，我們重新對該業務進行了投資，斥資約 4,500 萬美元收購 Trilogy。

We also used about $18 million on share repurchases, and we paid $19 million in dividends. Year-to-date, we have repurchased slightly over 1 million shares, or about 2% of our outstanding share account, and returned $133 million to shareholders through both repurchases and dividends.

我們還花了約 1800 萬美元回購股票，並支付了 1900 萬美元的股息。年初至今，我們已回購了 100 多萬股，約占我們已發行股票帳戶的 2%，並透過回購和股息向股東返還了 1.33 億美元。

And as Gary mentioned earlier, we are increasing our quarterly dividend by 30%, and as you said, the 6th dividend increased in the last five years.

正如加里之前提到的，我們將季度股息提高 30%，正如您所說，過去五年來第六次股息都有所增加。

Now let me turn to some of the highlights by solution area. Starting with consulting. Our new business was $187 million. It's up 2% at constant currency. Our engagements greater than $500,000. So those are our larger engagements represented approximately 41% of new business in the third quarter, and that's up from 32% last year third quarter.

現在讓我來談談解決方案領域的一些亮點。從諮詢開始。我們的新業務價值 1.87 億美元。以固定匯率計算，上漲了 2%。我們的約定金額超過 50 萬美元。因此，這些較大的業務約佔第三季新業務的 41%，高於去年第三季的 32%。

Our hourly bill rate climbed 5% year over year to $461 per hour, and profitability remains strong with an adjusted EBITDA margin of 17.7%. That's up 100 basis points year over year. Fee revenue for digital was $91 million. That's up 3% in constant currency, with 39% of total fee revenue generated from subscription and licenses, and that compares to about 36% a year ago.

我們的小時費率較去年同期上漲 5%，達到每小時 461 美元，獲利能力依然強勁，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 17.7%。這比去年同期增加了 100 個基點。數位費用收入為9,100萬美元。以固定匯率計算，這一數字上漲了 3%，其中 39% 的總費用收入來自訂閱和許可，而一年前這一數字約為 36%。

Profitability remains strong there as well, with an adjusted EBITDA margin of 31.3%, and that's up 100 basis points year over year. Executive search fee revenue grew 4% at constant currency to $205 million with growth in three of the four regions, most notably in North America.

獲利能力依然強勁，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 31.3%，較去年同期成長 100 個基點。高階主管搜尋費用收入以固定匯率計算成長 4%，達到 2.05 億美元，四個地區中有三個地區成長，最明顯的是北美。

Our consultant productivity increased 7% year over year to approximately $1.5 million annualized per consultant, and profitability was strong with an adjusted EBITDA margin of 25%, up 320 basis points year over year.

我們的顧問生產力年增 7%，達到每位顧問年均約 150 萬美元，獲利能力強勁，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 25%，較去年同期成長 320 個基點。

Professional search and interim new business and fee revenue continued to stabilize and were flat year over year at constant currency. Our interim average hourly bill rate and perm placement consultant productivity remained strong at $129 per hour and $650,000 annualized per consultant respectively.

專業搜尋及中期新業務及費用收入持續保持穩定，以固定匯率計算較去年同期持平。我們的中期平均每小時帳單費率和永久安置顧問生產力保持強勁，分別為每小時 129 美元和每位顧問每年 650,000 美元。

Profitability was also strong with an adjusted EBITDA margin of 21%. That's up 280 basis points year over year. Finally, RPO fee revenue grew 6% to $85 million in the third quarter. Fee revenue under contract accelerated sharply higher to $752 million and about 42% of that is estimated to be recognized in the next four quarters.

獲利能力也很強勁，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 21%。這比去年同期增加了 280 個基點。最後，第三季的RPO費用收入成長了6%，達到8,500萬美元。合約費用收入大幅成長至 7.52 億美元，預計其中約 42% 將在未來四個季度內實現確認。

RPO profitability was also strong with an adjusted EBITDA margin of 15%, and that's up 360 basis points year over year.

RPO 獲利能力也很強勁，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 15%，較去年同期成長 360 個基點。

To summarize, we're encouraged by our third quarter results and expect this momentum to carry into the fourth quarter.

總而言之，我們對第三季的業績感到鼓舞，並預計這一勢頭將延續到第四季。

Turning to our outlook for the fourth quarter of fiscal '25. Assuming no further changes in worldwide geopolitical conditions, economic conditions, financial markets, and foreign exchange rates, we expect fee revenue in the fourth quarter of fiscal '25 will range from $680 million to $700 million.

談談我們對25財年第四季的展望。假設全球地緣政治條件、經濟狀況、金融市場和外匯匯率沒有進一步變化，我們預期25財年第四季的費用收入將在6.8億美元至7億美元之間。

Our adjusted EBITDA margin to remain approximately 16.8% to 17%. Our consolidated adjusted diluted earnings per share to range from $1.22 to $1.30 and our GAAP diluted earnings per share to range from $1.20 to $1.28.

我們的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率維持在約 16.8% 至 17% 之間。我們的合併調整後每股攤薄收益範圍為 1.22 美元至 1.30 美元，我們的 GAAP 每股攤薄收益範圍為 1.20 美元至 1.28 美元。

Now let me end the way we began. We have been and will continue to operate in an uncertain macroeconomic environment. As always, we'll continue to be focused on operating excellence and based on the results of our third quarter and our fourth quarter outlook, it is very clear that our strategy is working.

現在讓我以我們開始的方式結束。我們一直並將繼續在不確定的宏觀經濟環境中運作。像往常一樣，我們將繼續專注於卓越運營，根據我們第三季度的業績和第四季度的展望，很明顯我們的策略正在發揮作用。

As I've said in the past, I truly believe our best days lie ahead of us.

正如我過去所說的，我堅信我們最好的日子就在前方。

With that, we would be glad to answer any questions you may have.

因此，我們很樂意回答您的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Trevor Romeo, William Blair.

特雷弗·羅密歐，威廉·布萊爾。

Thanks for all the detail and the results and the commentary for the team.

感謝您提供的所有詳細資訊、結果以及對團隊的評論。

Just wanted to first touch on sort of margins and productivity. I think a lot of the productivity or revenue for consultant metrics across your segments are up quite nicely. I know you've been making some investments in technology, tools and such, and you recently started ramping up hiring again.

我首先想談談利潤和生產力的問題。我認為，你們各部門的顧問指標的生產力或收入都有了相當好的提升。我知道您在科技、工具等方面進行了一些投資，最近您又開始加大招募力度。

But what are some of the areas where you've seen the most success driving productivity for a lot of your businesses and how much room do you think you'd have to further increase productivity without seeing an uptick in your term market or macro demand?

但是，您認為在哪些領域最能成功地提高企業的生產力？在長期市場或宏觀需求沒有上升的情況下，您認為還有多少空間可以進一步提高生產力？

Well, I think there's definitely an opportunity to improve productivity. We made a conscious decision going back now a couple of years that we would purposefully pivot. We saw the economic environment that was on the horizon.

嗯，我認為這肯定是一個提高生產力的機會。幾年前，我們就做出了一個有意識的決定，我們要有意識地進行轉型。我們看到了即將出現的經濟環境。

And we made decisions to pivot to more profitable type work and you just see it across the board. You see it in, for example, the rate per hour, on both our consulting business, consulting solution and our interim solution.

我們決定轉向更有利可圖的工作，這一點您可以全面看到。例如，您可以從我們的諮詢業務、諮詢解決方案和臨時解決方案的每小時費率中看到這一點。

The consulting solution, the rate per hour is up to $461 an hour. I mean that was $300 an hour three or so years ago. And the interim business, we're staying at the high end, which is $129 an hour this last quarter. And when you look at our productivity, we're producing probably 35%, 40% more revenue than we did right before the pandemic with the same number of employees.

此諮詢解決方案每小時費率高達 461 美元。我的意思是三年前每小時是 300 美元。而臨時業務，我們的薪資仍處於高端，上個季度的薪資為每小時 129 美元。從生產力來看，在員工人數不變的情況下，我們創造的收入可能比疫情前高出 35% 到 40%。

And we made a conscious decision to manage the talent that we have in the company. And you'll see that for example in our PS&I solution, the number of the fee earners, client facing consultants that we have there is probably down 50% or so, 40% from where it was three years ago.

我們有意識地決定管理公司現有的人才。您會發現，例如在我們的 PS&I 解決方案中，收費人員、面向客戶的顧問的數量可能比三年前下降了 50％ 左右，下降了 40％。

So we still think we have room to go even if the environment stays as it is.

因此，即使環境保持不變，我們仍然認為我們還有前進的空間。

Hey, Trevor. This is Bob. The other thing I would say is just in terms of looking forward, we continue to stay very close to where AI, GenAI is going, the direction it's heading in. And so as that continues to evolve, become more reliable, and so on, we do expect to get more productivity into the delivery of our services. Kind of hard to quantify at this very moment, but we do believe that there's more there.

嘿，特雷弗。這是鮑伯。我想說的另一件事是，展望未來，我們將繼續密切關注 AI、GenAI 的發展方向。隨著它的不斷發展，變得更加可靠等等，我們確實希望在提供服務時提高生產力。目前還很難量化，但我們確實相信還有很多。

And then for my follow up. Wanted to touch on RPO, I guess. Could you help us understand the growth of the new business which again is really nice in the quarter? Is it mostly is it competitive takeaways or is it clients that haven't used RPO before that are now kind of looking to outsource, or are you kind of starting to see some increases in underlying hiring at your clients?

然後進行我的跟進。我想，想談談 RPO。您能否幫助我們了解本季新業務的成長情況？主要是因為它具有競爭力，還是以前沒有使用過 RPO 的客戶現在正在尋求外包，或者您是否開始看到客戶的基礎招聘增加？

Well, it's a combination of all of that. Two-thirds of the new business was new logos. A lot of it was around marquee and diamond accounts that we purposefully targeted and been working on for quite some time. A good part of it was from healthcare and to some extent, life sciences.

嗯，這是所有這些的結合。新業務的三分之二是新標誌。其中許多都是圍繞著大型帳戶和鑽石帳戶進行的，我們有針對性地瞄準這些帳戶，並且已經為此工作了相當長一段時間。其中很大一部分來自醫療保健，某種程度上也來自生命科學。

And so it's all of those things combined. And I think the broader outlook here that is extremely positive for us is that there is a significant supply and demand imbalance that is coming over the next several years. And you look at it at major economies around the world and the hard cold truth is there's going to be less people coming into the workforce.

所以這就是所有這些因素的結合。我認為，對我們而言極為積極的更廣泛前景是，未來幾年將出現嚴重的供需失衡。看看世界各主要經濟體，殘酷的事實就是，進入勞動市場的人數將會減少。

And take the US economy. Over the last five years, nonfarm payroll has only increased by $7 million or so over five years. And so what that means is people -- companies are going to have to make sure that they are reskilling their workforce, that they're retaining the workforce, that they're identifying the 20% that does the 80%, let alone the world in which we live today, which growth is elusive.

以美國經濟為例。過去五年，非農業就業人數僅增加了700萬美元左右。所以，這意味著公司必須確保他們對員工進行再培訓，確保他們能夠留住員工，確保他們能夠找到那 20% 的員工，而這 20% 的員工能夠完成 80% 的人口增長，更不用說在我們今天生活的這個增長難以捉摸的世界了。

So I think all of those things point to significant opportunity for us.

所以我認為所有這些事情都為我們帶來了重大機會。

George Tong, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的喬治通 (George Tong)。

Your digital new business trends inflected from 10% growth last quarter to an 8% decline in constant currency this quarter. Can you talk a little bit about what drove the decline in digital?

您的數位新業務趨勢從上個季度的 10% 成長轉變為本季以固定匯率計算的 8% 下降。您能否稍微談談導致數位化衰退的原因？

Yeah. It's quarter to quarter, you're going to see ebbs and flows. I mean a year ago, in the quarter, we had some significant, it's a tough compare. We had some significant deals that companies were licensing our top database and they were picking up several countries at a time.

是的。每個季度，你都會看到潮起潮落。我的意思是，一年前，在這個季度，我們有一些重大的，這是一個很難比較的。我們達成了一些重大交易，一些公司獲得了我們頂級資料庫的許可，而且他們一次選擇了幾個國家。

And that led to a pretty robust compare to a year ago. But when you step back and look at it, it's been very, very stable in an environment that again has been less than ideal for a good eight quarters here. So that's the specific reason it was on the licensing of the compensation database.

與一年前相比，這一表現相當強勁。但當你退一步來看時，你會發現儘管過去八個季度環境一直不太理想，但公司卻一直非常非常穩定。這就是關於補償資料庫許可的具體原因。

But overall, it's been pretty stable in a tough environment over the last eight quarters.

但總體而言，在過去八個季度的艱難環境下，它一直相當穩定。

And then we're seeing real time changes in the macro outlook given potential headwinds from tariff policies. What are you hearing from clients during this elevated period of uncertainty, and do you expect hiring activity to pull back given economic uncertainty?

鑑於關稅政策可能帶來的阻力，我們看到宏觀前景的即時變化。在這個高度不確定的時期，您從客戶那裡聽到了什麼？鑑於經濟的不確定性，您是否預期招募活動會減少？

There's always uncertainty. It's just clouded in the illusion of certainty. I do not think that that is going to pull back. I think the reality is when you look at Peak 65 and you consider that over the next three years or so, at least in the United States. And it would hold true for other countries around the world.

總是存在不確定性。它只是被確定性的幻覺所籠罩。我不認為這種情況會有所退縮。我認為現實情況是，當你觀察 65 號高峰並考慮未來三年左右的時間時，至少在美國是這樣。這對世界其他國家也同樣適用。

In US, you're going to lose probably 4 million, 5 million executives that are turning 65 a year. And I think the other thing is that when you look at the C-suite, the people that are in the C-suite were probably leading an organization through COVID.

在美國，每年可能會失去 400 萬到 500 萬名年齡在 65 歲之間的高階主管。我認為另一件事是，當你看看高階主管時，你會發現高階主管的人可能正在領導一個組織度過 COVID。

So from darkness to light in a very, very tough time. And then you had the great resignation and you had the pent up demand. And then you've got -- you saw companies raise prices, volumes were down, packaging got shrunk.

所以，在非常非常艱難的時期裡，我們從黑暗走向了光明。然後你就有了偉大的辭職，並且你有了被壓抑的需求。然後你會發現──你看到公司提高價格，銷量下降，包裝縮小。

And now there's real price inelasticity. It's hard for companies to raise prices. And so you've got a real cost of living crisis. And so you look at those people that are -- that led organizations through a very, very difficult time in humanity. And you probably have a lot of people saying, is this -- do I want something else in life?

如今，價格確實缺乏彈性。企業很難提高價格。因此，你們面臨真正的生活成本危機。所以你看看那些帶領組織度過人類歷史上非常非常艱難時期的人。可能很多人會問，這是──我的生活中我還想要別的東西嗎？

And I think we're actually seeing that play out. When you look at the search solution, the executive search solution, and you look at RPO, you're seeing -- we've seen significant uptick over the last three months or so. And I think it points to all of those factors combined.

我認為我們確實看到了這一幕。當您查看搜尋解決方案、高階主管搜尋解決方案以及 RPO 時，您會看到 - 我們在過去三個月左右看到了顯著的上升。我認為，這是所有這些因素的綜合結果。

And as I said, when you look out longer term, there's a significant imbalance between the supply and demand of labor. And as Bob said, he's right. How does that imbalance become rectified? Well, you look back in history and the way it gets rectified is through technology.

正如我所說，從長遠來看，勞動力的供需存在嚴重的不平衡。正如鮑勃所說，他是對的。如何修正這種不平衡現象？回顧歷史，我們會發現修正的方法是透過科技。

And so that's definitely a good part of the answer. But the other piece is that companies are going to have to do different things with their workforce because there's just not the supply of talent coming in. And so I think it's all of those things combined.

所以這絕對是答案的重要組成部分。但另一方面，由於人才供應不足，公司必須對員工採取不同的措施。所以我認為這是所有這些因素的綜合作用。

And I just -- I don't think -- the uncertainty that you've seen, it's been over the last couple of weeks. And that's people are negotiating that that's what's happening here. But I don't see that pulling back. I could be wrong, but it would be hard for me to believe that.

我只是 — — 我不認為 — — 您所看到的不確定性已經持續了幾週了。人們正在協商，這就是這裡發生的事情。但我並不認為這種情況會有所退縮。我可能是錯的，但我很難相信這一點。

Mark Marcon, Baird.

馬克馬康，貝爾德。

Congrats on the good results.

恭喜你取得好成績。

Gary, you started out your discussion, which unfortunately was a little bit muffled. I don't know if you had a bad connection at the time or not, discussing some of the big engagements that you've been recently winning.

蓋瑞，你開始了討論，但不幸的是，你的討論有點含糊不清。我不知道你們當時是否處於溝通不良的狀態，正在討論你們最近贏得的一些重約定。

And I was just wondering if you could elaborate a little bit further with regards to the size, scope of those big engagements. And how you were able to get those? Who you ended up winning them from? Like if who else was part of the RFPs? Just to a little elaborate how you're moving up the food chain in terms of being a thought leader.

我只是想知道您是否可以進一步詳細說明這些大型活動的規模和範圍。您是如何獲得這些的？您最後從誰手中贏得了它們？還有誰參與了 RFP 嗎？稍微闡述一下您是如何成為思想領袖並提升其地位的。

Yeah. It's definitely happened and sorry for that. Hopefully, and it's not not muffled now.

是的。這確實發生了，我對此感到抱歉。但願如此，現在它還沒有被掩蓋。

It's really a decision that we made several years ago that we would -- we want to get into more high impact engagements. And so what all of those engagements have in common is the environment today where growth is elusive.

這其實是我們幾年前就做出的決定，我們希望參與更多具有高影響力的活動。所有這些行動的共同點在於，當今的環境都面臨著難以實現成長的困境。

And so the question for leaders is around transformation. And how do you transform your workforce giving given a shift in strategic direction. And so those engagements are scaled engagements. I mean where you're touching literally thousands of employees at a particular client.

因此，領導者面臨的問題就是轉型。在策略方向轉變的情況下，您如何轉變您的勞動力？因此，這些交戰都是規模化的交戰。我的意思是，你實際上要接觸某個特定客戶的數千名員工。

And they involve largely either organizational design or far-reaching leadership development programs, professional development programs on how companies can shift their mindset and their employees' skill set to match a new strategic direction for the company.

它們主要涉及組織設計或深遠的領導力發展計劃以及專業發展計劃，即公司如何轉變思維方式和員工技能以適應公司的新策略方向。

And today, when you look at the consulting backlog, it's actually at an all-time high. And I think it's about 40% of that backlog are engagements that are definitely over $500,000 and actually could be over $1 million. Now there's good news, bad news.

如今，當你查看諮詢積壓量時，會發現它實際上已經達到了歷史最高水平。我認為，大約 40% 的積壓訂單價值肯定超過 50 萬美元，實際上可能超過 100 萬美元。現在有好消息，也有壞消息。

The good news is that those are predictable, durable, revenue sources. The more challenging news is that it takes multi quarters to implement. And so you're seeing in our results that the new business in consulting is significantly ahead of revenue.

好消息是，這些都是可預測、持久的收入來源。更具挑戰性的消息是，它需要多個季度才能實施。因此，您可以在我們的結果中看到，諮詢領域的新業務遠遠超過收入。

And so you're seeing a shift towards much more impactful assignments that take longer to implement. And then you're also seeing less quasi discretionary engagements than we've seen, say three or four years ago. And the primary reason for that is that companies don't have a lot of pricing power.

因此，您會看到一種趨勢，即任務變得更有影響力，但實施起來需要更長的時間。然後，你也會看到，與三、四年前相比，準自由裁量權的參與有所減少。而最主要的原因是公司缺乏定價權。

And they're cutting costs. And they've been cutting costs now for seven or eight quarters. And so anything that was somewhat discretionary is being put on hold.

他們正在削減成本。他們已經削減了七、八個季度的成本。因此，所有可自由決定的事情都被擱置了。

And Mark, I would add that the discretionary engagement that Gary is referring to are generally the ones that are smaller which convert to revenue much quicker. So you kind of get the dynamics of the larger engagements which convert over a longer period of time, a little bit compounded by the smaller discretionary stuff not happening.

馬克，我想補充一點，加里提到的自由支配的參與通常是規模較小的參與，但可以更快轉化為收入。因此，您可以獲得更大規模參與的動態，這些參與會在更長的時間內發生轉變，但由於較小的可自由支配的事情沒有發生，這種動態有點複雜。

Gary, again, I apologize, I just did not -- was not able to hear very much of what you said up front. Could you just, you mentioned the 60,000 employee global energy company. Like what sort of projects are you doing for those companies?

加里，我再次向您表示歉意，我沒有聽清您之前說的話。您剛才提到了擁有 60,000 名員工的全球能源公司。例如，您為這些公司做什麼樣的專案？

And you mentioned a global insurer. You mentioned another company that was a really large employer, but again it was muffled. So I didn't quite get all of that. But what exactly are you doing and who did you beat out in order to get those engagements?

您提到了一家全球保險公司。您提到了另一家僱用人數眾多的公司，但這又被掩蓋了。所以我不太明白這些。但是，您到底做了什麼以及您打敗了誰才獲得這些聘用呢？

Many times, it's the large strategy firms that we're winning work against. Sometimes it's the Big 4. And for example, that the energy company. It's really around success profiles. And given a strategic change in direction and transformation, going in and saying based on that strategy, what type of talent do you need and how is that talent different from the talent that you have in-house?

很多時候，我們都是在與大型策略公司競爭以贏得勝利。有時是四大。例如，那家能源公司。這確實與成功概況有關。考慮到方向和轉型的策略變化，根據該策略，您需要什麼類型的人才，以及這種人才與您內部的人才有何不同？

Part of it is licensing our IP. We have like 12,000 success profiles. And that's really what it entails. And the other two that I mentioned were also around strategic transformation. And those are large, large far-reaching leadership programs on moving a workforce from what you were to what you want to be.

其中一部分是授權我們的智慧財產權。我們有大約 12,000 個成功案例。這正是它真正的意義。我提到的另外兩個也與策略轉型有關。這些都是規模龐大、影響深遠的領導力計劃，旨在推動勞動力從原來的狀態轉變為理想的狀態。

And so it is in an essence reskilling a workforce, but it starts with the company's strategic direction for sure.

因此，這本質上是對勞動力的再培訓，但肯定要從公司的策略方向開始。

Are the decision makers in terms of who they're going with when you're -- when they're selecting you versus a McKinsey or a BCG or a Bain or against one of the Big 4, who's the decision maker? Is that the CEO, the COO, or is it within the realm of the Chief of HR?

當他們選擇你而不是麥肯錫、波士頓顧問集團、貝恩或四大之一時，決策者是誰？這是執行長、營運官，還是屬於人力資源主管的職責範圍？

It's all of the -- it's all of the above. And I can think of one a different energy company that it's actually -- it's coming from the CEO. So it really depends, Mark. But it's starting with the leader of the business. And a new strategy or a different strategy.

以上都是——以上都是。我想到另一家能源公司，它實際上來自執行長。所以這真的要視情況而定，馬克。但它是從企業領導者開始的。還有一種新策略或不同的策略。

And then where that gets purchased, sometimes it is the CEO or CFO and other times, it goes down to other parts of the organization including HR.

然後，購買者會是 CEO 或 CFO，有時，他會購買到組織的其他部門，包括人資部。

Well, congrats on that.

好吧，恭喜你。

And then on interim and professional search, you've obviously made a lot of different acquisitions there with different profiles. Can you just discuss like within this quarter and even going back to the last quarter, which ones are performing the best? Which segments are performing the best? Which ones are perhaps being impacted a little bit more by the uncertainty that's out there?

然後在臨時和專業搜尋方面，您顯然已經根據不同的情況進行了許多不同的收購。您能否討論一下本季甚至上個季度的表現如何？哪些部分錶現最好？哪些可能會受到更大的不確定性的影響？

And how does that inform what your future strategy is going to be in that space?

那麼這對您未來在該領域的策略有何啟示呢？

Huge market that has a visible predictable durable revenue streams. We are going to continue to lean in to the interim space. Today, that business is, that solution is probably $330 million something like that, $340 million, in that neighborhood.

巨大的市場，擁有可見、可預測的持久收入來源。我們將繼續傾向於過渡階段。今天，這項業務、這項解決方案的價值大概為 3.3 億美元，約 3.4 億美元。

I'll tell you that within the PS&I solution, where we have found the best success is where the company is operating at the higher end with really skilled talent. That's where our competitive advantage is. And I think we've been -- and Bob can clarify, I think we've landed something like 1,000 cross referral engagements since we've gotten into this business.

我會告訴你，在 PS&I 解決方案中，我們發現最好的成功之處在於公司以真正熟練的人才在高端運作。這就是我們的競爭優勢。我認為我們已經——鮑勃可以澄清一下，我認為自從我們進入這個行業以來，我們已經獲得了大約 1,000 個交叉推薦服務。

The ones where the least success and it's a little bit trickier for us is where the acquiree has a percentage of their business that is doing kind of contingent placement. That for us, on a number of dimensions is a little bit trickier, for sure given that our business is generally retained.

最不成功、對我們來說有點棘手的是，被收購者有一定比例的業務正在進行某種有條件的配售。對我們來說，從很多方面來說這都有點棘手，當然因為我們的業務總體上是保留的。

And so those businesses that would have a larger contingent portion in terms of hiring in the PS&I solution, those would be harder for us. And aren't -- they not as strategically aligned. So as we're looking at growing that solution to $1 billion, we're focused on the higher end of the interim business.

因此，那些在 PS&I 解決方案中招募時有較大偶然性部分的企業對我們來說會更加困難。而且他們不是——戰略上不是一致的。因此，當我們考慮將該解決方案的規模擴大到 10 億美元時，我們將專注於中期業務的高端。

And we would probably shy away from things that have a bigger contingent solution for sure. But I just -- I think that what you're seeing in this Peak 65, I think you're going to see people that may say, hey, I don't want to work full time, but I want to work part time. And I want to have a different work-life balance.

而我們可能會迴避那些需要更大應急解決方案的事情。但我只是——我認為你在 Peak 65 中看到的情況是，人們可能會說，嘿，我不想全職工作，但我想兼職工作。我想要一種不同的工作與生活的平衡。

They still want to contribute. And I think you're going to see more of that as people live longer. And I think with the impending supply demand imbalance on the labor front, I think that's going to play to that as well. At least that's how we're looking at things.

他們仍然想做出貢獻。而且我認為，隨著人們壽命的延長，你會看到更多這樣的情況。我認為，隨著勞動力方面即將出現供需失衡，這也將產生影響。至少我們是這樣看待事物的。

Yeah. Mark, when you think about the different verticals, the functional verticals that we have, they kind of -- with the diversification and being at higher levels in the organization as well as Gary just talked about the C-suite, I think that gives that business a bit more durability. When one of the particular verticals is up, no one might be down and vice versa at a later point in time.

是的。馬克，當你考慮到我們擁有的不同垂直部門、功能垂直部門時，它們有點——隨著組織的多樣化和處於更高的層次，以及加里剛才談到的高管層，我認為這會給該業務帶來更多的持久性。當某個特定垂直線處於上升狀態時，稍後可能沒有其他垂直線處於下降狀態，反之亦然。

I was just wondering if you could, Bob, you were beating me to the question in terms of the functional verticals. Which ones are you seeing the strongest performance in versus which ones may be challenged and how are you thinking about the IT vertical given that there's more and more discussion about AI potentially having an impact with regards to the need for coding or the increasing efficiency as it relates to coding?

鮑勃，我只是想知道你是否可以，在功能垂直方面，你已經搶先回答了我的問題。您認為哪些技術表現最為出色，哪些技術可能面臨挑戰？鑑於關於人工智慧可能對編碼需求或與編碼相關的效率提高產生影響的討論越來越多，您如何看待 IT 垂直領域？

Do you want me to take that?

你想讓我拿走它嗎？

Yeah, go ahead.

嗯，請說。

Yeah. So listen, I think as we sit there today, the IT vertical, it has some impact from the impending evolution of AI, GenAI, all that, although I would say today, it's still in the sort of what I would call infancy stages. It's making progress and it's accelerating. But it's still at a point where it's not particularly -- it doesn't have the efficacy yet that's needed.

是的。所以聽著，我認為，當我們今天坐在那裡時，IT垂直領域受到了即將到來的人工智慧、GenAI等的發展的一些影響，儘管我想說今天它仍然處於我所謂的起步階段。它正在取得進展，並且正在加速。但它仍處於不太明顯的階段——尚未達到所需的功效。

And I think as IT organizations are trying to deal with it, we have felt some impact there. I would say on the F&A side, we've seen a little bit of bounce back in that particular vertical where we are right now. So it's again the two kind of counterbalance each other.

我認為，當 IT 組織嘗試解決這個問題時，我們感受到了一些影響。我想說，在財務與行政方面，我們已經看到目前該特定垂直領域出現了一些反彈。所以這兩者又互相抵消了。

The C-suite area of the Patina acquisition as Gary mentioned is strong because of the dynamics that we're seeing in the Peak 65, if you will. And the other vertical we have is we play a little bit in the HR space and that one is kind of on the smaller side.

正如 Gary 所提到的那樣，由於我們在 Peak 65 中看到的動態，Patina 收購中的 C 套件區域非常強大。我們的另一個垂直領域是在人力資源領域，這個領域規模較小。

The thing I would say too is Gary's right on the contingent side, although it's not what I would call a massive part of our business at this point in time.

我想說的是，加里關於偶然性的觀點是正確的，儘管我目前認為這還不是我們業務的重要組成部分。

And then this last question and this is for Gary and Bob. Obviously, the uncertainty that's out there has recently unfolded and things are always uncertain. But what would you -- what would it take for you to see signs that, hey, maybe things are unfolding and even though we're going into Peak 65, the short term macro kind of overwhelms that?

最後一個問題，是問蓋瑞和鮑伯的。顯然，最近出現的不確定性已經顯現，而且事情總是不確定的。但是，您需要做什麼——您需要做什麼才能看到跡象，嘿，也許事情正在展開，儘管我們正進入 65 年的峰值，但短期宏觀因素會壓倒這一點？

What would you be looking for to say, hey, maybe we need to do even more contingency planning? I know you've always got contingency plans in place, but in terms of putting in place the playbook for things getting a little bit tougher.

你想說什麼？嘿，也許我們需要做更多的應急計畫？我知道你們一直都有應急計劃，但是製定應對方案方面的事情會變得更加艱難。

Well, I think if the cost of living crisis is exaggerated, I think that's the big issue. And anything companies do not have pricing power today. It's pricing inelasticity. And so I think anything that materially impacts the consumer's ability to live and affordability, that's a problem.

嗯，我認為如果生活成本危機被誇大了，那才是大問題。如今，任何公司都沒有定價權。這是定價缺乏彈性。因此我認為，任何對消費者生活能力和負擔能力產生重大影響的事情都是一個問題。

Now on the other side of it, I think you're going to see because we are a very global firm. And you see it in our results. I mean the thing that I that I step back and look at this this firm over the last eight quarters and look at the overall results and the profitability in just a very, very challenging environment.

現在從另一方面來看，我想你會看到，因為我們是一家全球性公司。您可以從我們的結果中看到這一點。我的意思是，我回顧一下這家公司過去八個季度的表現，看看它在非常非常具有挑戰性的環境下的整體業績和盈利能力。

I mean it gives me tremendous confidence and hope. The other side of that though is within EMEA. And the conversations around, for example, in Germany. That are going to lift that debt ceiling. And that, some countries there are going to be increasing their defense spending is very, very good for us.

我的意思是它給了我巨大的信心和希望。但另一方面，卻是在歐洲、中東和非洲地區。例如，在德國進行的對話。這將會提高債務上限。一些國家將增加國防開支，這對我們來說非常非常好。

And so that is definitely could be a positive for sure. But I think the most basic thing here is around the cost of living. And anything that makes things more expensive is not a good thing. And I view the last couple weeks, and I could be wrong, but I view the last couple of weeks as negotiation.

所以這肯定是一件正面的事情。但我認為這裡最基本的事情是生活成本。任何使東西變得更昂貴的事都不是好事。我看待過去幾週的情況，雖然我可能錯了，但我認為過去幾週是一次談判。

And it's just hard for me to get my mind around that somebody would actually, you would do something that's very, very harmful that would make the cost of living even higher for say in America, the average American.

我很難想像有人竟然會做出如此有害的事情，使得美國一般民眾的生活成本進一步上升。

And Mark, this is Rob. I'll look at it a bit more technically. So what I look at our new business every day, look at our unit counts and look at volumes, and for me that's the real driver of when you start to see trends. Or give you an example of exec search, the unit count in the third quarter was up 3%. In the month of February, it was actually up low double digits.

馬克，這是羅布。我將更從技術角度來看這個問題。因此，我每天都會關注我們的新業務，關注我們的單位數量和數量，對我來說，這才是開始看到趨勢的真正驅動力。或者舉一個高階主管搜尋的例子，第三季的單位數量增加了 3%。二月份，這一數字實際上上漲了兩位數。

But those are the things that I would pay attention to, myself is, okay, we've got the macro environment that Gary just went through and you have to understand all that, but then how does that translate to what we're seeing on a day by day basis in terms of levels of new business, volumes and so on.

但這些都是我會關注的事情，我自己的想法是，好吧，我們已經了解了加里剛剛經歷的宏觀環境，你必須了解所有這些，但是，這如何轉化為我們每天所看到的新業務水平、數量等。

And that would be one of the main drivers as we think about the need to take action or not.

當我們考慮是否需要採取行動時，這將是主要驅動因素之一。

Tobey Sommer, Truist Securities.

托比·索默（Tobey Sommer），Truist Securities。

This is Tyler Barishaw on for Tobey.

泰勒·巴里肖 (Tyler Barishaw) 代替托比 (Tobey) 出場。

You mentioned 25 new fee earners in the quarter. How should we think about that as a run rate going into fiscal year '26, or can you maybe bring some expectations for that?

您提到本季有 25 位新收費人員。我們應該如何看待 26 財年的運行率，或者您能否對此提出一些預期？

Well, I think that's probably fair. We've continued to actively manage the talent that we have within the organization. You're going to continue to see us do that. And we're out. We have been for many, many quarters continuing to promote from within creating opportunities within the firm where we're a coveted career destination.

嗯，我想這可能很公平。我們一直積極管理組織內的人才。您將會繼續看到我們這樣做。我們出去了。我們已經在很多、很多季度持續進行內部提拔，在公司內部創造機會，我們是令人垂涎的職業目的地。

We're going to continue that. Just a couple of months ago, we promoted 1,000 people across the organization. And we'll continue to augment that by looking at the outside. We don't really publish targets per se like that.

我們會繼續這樣做。就在幾個月前，我們在整個組織內提拔了 1,000 人。而且我們將繼續透過觀察外部來增強這一點。我們實際上不會發布這樣的目標本身。

But I think you're going to continue to see us make sure that we're pivoting towards profitable work. That we're raising the productivity, whether that's through technology and AI or other things, you're going to continue to see us do that. And we're going to aggressively bring in talent.

但我想你會繼續看到我們確保我們正轉向有利可圖的工作。我們正在提高生產力，無論是透過科技和人工智慧還是其他方式，你將繼續看到我們這樣做。我們將積極引進人才。

So it would be reasonable for the next quarter to kind of think about the number you said. But also that we're going to actively manage the workforce that we have today as well.

因此，下個季度考慮您所說的數字是合理的。而且我們也將積極管理現有的勞動力。

That's an important point, Gary, because I think the number is that we -- the 25 is a net number. So depending on what side of the equation you're leaning in on, it's going to influence that outcome.

加里，這一點很重要，因為我認為這個數字——25 是一個淨數字。因此，取決於你傾向於等式的哪一邊，它都會影響結果。

And then just you mentioned on the C-suite churn, a lot execs over 65. How should we think about the swing factor of like capital markets recovery? Should we expect that to have a meaningful impact on demand for exec search?

正如您所提到的，高階主管人員的流失，許多高階主管的年齡都超過 65 歲。我們該如何看待資本市場復甦之類的波動因素？我們是否應該期待這將對高階主管搜尋的需求產生有意義的影響？

The capital markets recovery, well, certainly there's a lot of pent up demand. There's no question about that. And there was a talk five, six weeks ago, there were a lot of animal spirits. In the last couple of weeks, that's been dampened a bit.

資本市場的復甦，當然有許多被壓抑的需求。這是毫無疑問的。五、六週前有一次談話，談到了很多動物精神。在過去的幾周里，這種勢頭有所減弱。

But I think the -- I actually think the bigger issue is the baby boomers. I think that's a big deal. I do believe that's going to have an impact. And it's going to create a significant imbalance along with lower birth rates when you look out a little bit longer term.

但我認為——我實際上認為更大的問題是嬰兒潮世代。我認為這是一件大事。我確實相信這會產生影響。從長遠來看，這將導致嚴重的不平衡以及出生率下降。

And I think the other thing too is that those leaders have guided organizations through arguably a very difficult time in humanity from COVID to the great resignation to a cost of living crisis. I think that's having an impact on executives as well.

我認為另一件事是，這些領導者帶領組織度過了人類歷史上非常艱難的時期，從新冠疫情到大規模辭職，再到生活成本危機。我認為這也對高階主管產生了影響。

So yes, clearly, I think the -- a swing in the capital markets could be for sure a positive. But I think the bigger thing that's just straight mathematics is the actual supply and demand imbalance that's heading our way. And that's good for Korn Ferry because it means that companies are going to have to do different things with their workforce.

是的，顯然，我認為資本市場的波動肯定是正面的。但我認為，更大的問題，也就是簡單的數學問題，就是我們實際面臨的供需失衡。這對光輝國際來說是件好事，因為這意味著公司必須對員工採取不同的措施。

How they empower, how they inspire, how they develop, how they reskill. All of those things that were talked about many, many years ago are actually at our doorstep and I think that creates opportunity for us.

他們如何授權、如何激勵、如何發展、如何重新獲得技能。許多年前談論的所有這些事情實際上都發生在我們面前，我認為這為我們創造了機會。

And just one final one. Looks like '25 is going to be another year margin or will be a year of large margin expansion. How should we think about margin expansion in '26?

最後一個。看起來 25 年將會是另一個利潤豐厚的一年，或者將是利潤率大幅擴張的一年。我們該如何看待26年的利潤率擴大？

Well, Bob could definitely correct me. We've targeted kind of 16% to 18% margins. And we want to make sure that we are simultaneously delivering increasing earnings for sure for shareholders, investing in the business and returning cash to shareholders.

好吧，鮑伯肯定可以糾正我。我們的目標是利潤率達到 16% 至 18%。我們希望確保同時為股東帶來不斷成長的收益、投資業務並向股東返還現金。

We're trying. And I think if you've looked, we've been very, very balanced around that. And I think right now as we sit here today, we're very comfortable with that 16% to 18%. We just have to make sure that we're not cutting our nose off, that we are investing in the places we need to invest to take advantage of what we think will happen over the next several years vis-a-vis labor and what companies are going to have to do differently.

我們正在努力。如果你觀察一下就會發現，我們在這方面一直都非常非常平衡。我認為現在我們坐在這裡，對 16% 到 18% 這個比例感到非常滿意。我們只是要確保我們不會自斷後路，我們要投資在需要投資的地方，以利用我們認為未來幾年在勞動力方面將會發生的變化以及公司將不得不採取的不同做法。

Josh Chan, UBS.

瑞銀的 Josh Chan。

This is Karan Singhania on for Josh.

卡蘭辛加尼亞 (Karan Singhania) 代替喬許 (Josh) 發言。

So we wanted to ask on the Q4 margin guide. Typically, Q4 margins are higher than Q3, but it looks like you're getting margins down this time. So just wondering if you could maybe like give a bit more color on what you're seeing across the businesses. And well, what is different than prior years in terms of that just that sequential progression.

因此，我們想詢問有關第四季度利潤率指南的問題。通常，第四季的利潤率高於第三季度，但看起來這次的利潤率有所下降。我只是想知道您是否可以更詳細地介紹您在各個企業看到的情況。那麼，與前幾年相比，有什麼不同呢？就連續進展而言。

Well, yeah, I mean I think you have to first and Bob, you can take it, but first, you have to step back and say, okay, hold on guys, when you adjust for the change of mix in our business, pro forma, our margins are up like 350 basis points over the last several years.

嗯，是的，我的意思是我認為你必須首先這樣做，鮑勃，你可以接受，但首先，你必須退一步說，好吧，夥計們，等一下，當你調整我們業務組合的變化時，預計我們的利潤率在過去幾年裡上升了 350 個基點。

These margins are incredibly healthy and whether it's 16.5 or 17.2, those are incredible margins. But Bob, I'll let you. Maybe you can.

這些利潤率令人難以置信地健康，無論是 16.5 還是 17.2，都是令人難以置信的利潤率。但是鮑勃，我會讓你的。也許你可以。

I'm not sure where you got -- I mean the margin, if it's lower, it's like 10 basis points. So it's not -- I don't think there's really a question there to be honest with you.

我不確定你從哪裡得到的 - 我的意思是利潤率，如果較低的話，它就像 10 個基點。所以這不是——老實說，我認為這裡不存在什麼問題。

And just like as my follow-up, I just wanted to ask on the North America executive search business. So growth in back came in strong at like 6%. And I think you briefly touched on that in one of the previous questions, but can you just elaborate on what drove that growth and can you expect a recovery in that business from your own?

正如我的後續問題一樣，我只想問一下北美高階主管搜尋業務的情況。因此，成長率強勁，達到 6%。我覺得您在之前的一個問題中已經簡要提到了這一點，但您能否詳細說明推動了這一增長的因素以及您是否預計您自己的業務會復蘇？

Look, we're -- that business, that solution is, we've seen real strength, over the last several months. And I do believe that yes, does that reflect the success of our strategy? Yes. But I also believe that it reflects all the things that I've been talking about including Peak 65 and cost of living crisis and work-life balance.

瞧，我們 — — 那個業務，那個解決方案，在過去的幾個月裡，我們已經看到了真正的實力。我確實相信，是的，這是否反映了我們策略的成功？是的。但我也相信，它反映了我一直在談論的所有事情，包括 65 歲高峰、生活成本危機和工作與生活的平衡。

I think it encompasses all of those things together. And this has been -- the last eight quarters have actually been quite unusual when you look at past employment cycles to see the temp penetration rate go down for almost three years and now it finally has kind of -- it looks like maybe it's stabilized at 1.6% to see the outsourcing solution that we have to see that go down at a time when companies are cutting costs.

我認為它涵蓋了所有這些內容。如果你回顧過去的就業週期，你會發現過去八個季度的情況相當不尋常，臨時工滲透率在近三年內一直在下降，而現在它終於有點穩定在 1.6% 左右，我們必須看到外包解決方案在公司削減成本的時候下降。

It's been a very, very strange eight quarters, and that's why I would step back and look at the firm in total. And the fact that we are impacting a client's organizational performance. We have durable revenue streams, the solutions look to counterbalance each other.

過去的八個季度非常非常奇怪，這就是為什麼我要回顧過去，並全面審視這家公司。事實上，我們正​​在影響客戶的組織績效。我們有持久的收入來源，解決方案看起來可以相互平衡。

And a macro trend ahead that would suggest that companies are going to have to do stuff, do things differently with their workforce. So that's how I look at the firm today. And the search is I think the -- it's the result of a lot of things we've been talking about on this call.

未來的宏觀趨勢表明，公司必須採取措施，以不同的方式對待員工。這就是我今天對公司的看法。我認為，搜尋是——這是我們在這次電話會議上討論的許多事情的結果。

And that ends our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Mr. Burnison.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我將把電話轉回給伯尼森先生。

Okay. Thank you, everybody. Again, I am enormously proud of our organization and how we have pivoted through a very, very difficult economic environment over the last eight quarters and have produced incredible results.

好的。謝謝大家。再次，我為我們的組織感到無比自豪，為我們如何在過去八個季度中度過了非常非常困難的經濟環境並取得了令人難以置信的業績感到自豪。

And more importantly, really driving clients' organizational performance. That's what Korn Ferry is all about, to enable people and organizations to do more than.

更重要的是，真正推動客戶的組織績效。這就是光輝國際的宗旨：幫助個人和組織做更多的事情。

So with that, thank you for your time. Rob, thank you for hosting this, and we'll talk to you next time.

所以，感謝您抽出時間。羅布，謝謝你主持這次節目，我們下次再聊。

Ladies and gentlemen, this conference call will be available for replay for one week starting today, running through the end, March 18, 2025, ending at midnight. You may access the Echo Replay Service by dialing 800-770-2030 and entering the access code 1529021 followed by the pound key.

女士們，先生們，從今天開始，本次電話會議將提供重播一周，直至 2025 年 3 月 18 日午夜結束。您可以撥打 800-770-2030 並輸入存取代碼 1529021 再按井號鍵來存取 Echo Replay 服務。

Additionally, the replay will be available for playback at the company's website, www.kornferry.com in the Investor Relations section.

此外，您也可以在公司網站 www.kornferry.com 的投資人關係欄位中播放重播內容。

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。