GEE Group Inc (JOB) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the GEE Group fiscal 2025 third quarter and year-to-date ended June 30, 2025 earnings and update webcast conference call. I am Derek Dewan, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of GEE Group. I will be hosting today's call. Joining me as a co-presenter is Kim Thorpe, our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Thank you for joining us today.

大家好，歡迎參加 GEE 集團 2025 財年第三季及截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日的年初至今收益及最新進展網絡直播電話會議。我是 GEE 集團董事長兼執行長 Derek Dewan。我將主持今天的電話會議。與我一同擔任共同主持人的還有我們的資深副總裁兼財務長金‧索普。感謝您今天蒞臨。

It is our pleasure to share with you GEE Group's results for the fiscal 2025 third quarter and year-to-date ended June 30, 2025 results and provide you with our outlook for the remainder of 2025 and the foreseeable future.

我們很高興與您分享 GEE 集團 2025 財年第三季及截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日的年初至今業績，並向您提供我們對 2025 年剩餘時間及可預見未來的展望。

Some comments Kim and I will make may be considered forward looking, including predictions, estimates, expectations and other statements about our future performance. These represent our current judgments of what the future holds and are subject to risks and uncertainties that actual results may differ materially from our forward-looking statements.

Kim 和我的一些評論可能被認為是前瞻性的，包括對我們未來表現的預測、估計、期望和其他聲明。這些代表了我們目前對未來發展趨勢的判斷，但存在風險和不確定性，實際結果可能與我們的前瞻性聲明有重大差異。

These risks and uncertainties are described below under the caption, Forward-Looking Statements Safe Harbor and in Wednesday's earnings press release and our most recent Form 10-Q, 10-K, and other SEC filings under the captions, Cautionary Statement Regarding Forward Looking Statements and Forward-Looking Statements Safe Harbor. We assume no obligation to update statements made on today's call.

這些風險和不確定性在下文“前瞻性聲明安全港”標題下進行了描述，並在周三的收益新聞稿以及我們最新的 10-Q 表格、10-K 表格和其他提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中，在“關於前瞻性聲明的警示性聲明”和“前瞻性聲明安全港”標題下進行了描述。我們不承擔更新今天電話會議上所作聲明的義務。

Throughout this presentation, we will refer to the periods being presented as this quarter or the quarter or this-year-to-date or the year-to-date, which refers to the three month or nine month periods ending June 30, 2025, respectively.

在本簡報中，我們將把所呈現的期間稱為本季或本季或今年迄今或年初至今，分別指截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日的三個月或九個月期間。

Likewise, when we refer to the prior year quarter or prior year-to-date, we are referring to the comparable prior three month or nine month periods ended June 30, 2024, respectively. During this presentation, we also will talk about some non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations and explanations of the non-GAAP measures we will address today are included in the earnings press release.

同樣，當我們提到上一年的季度或上一年的累積時間時，我們指的是截至 2024 年 6 月 30 日的相應三個月或九個月期間。在本次演講中，我們也將討論一些非GAAP財務指標。今天我們將討論的非GAAP指標的調整和解釋已包含在獲利新聞稿中。

Our presentation of financial amounts and related items, including growth rates, margins and trend metrics are rounded are based upon rounded amounts. For purposes of this call, and all amounts, percentages and related items presented are approximations accordingly. For your convenience, our prepared remarks for today's call are available in the Investor Center of our website, www.geegroup.com.

我們對財務金額及相關項目（包括成長率、利潤率和趨勢指標）的列示均以四捨五入後的金額為基礎。就本次電話會議而言，所有金額、百分比及相關項目均為近似值。為了方便您查閱，我們今天電話會議的發言稿已準備好，可在我們網站 www.geegroup.com 的投資者中心查看。

Now on to today's prepared remarks. Beginning in the second half of 2023 throughout 2024 and so far in 2025, we have encountered and continue to face very difficult and challenging conditions in the hiring environment for our staffing services. These have stemmed from various factors, including the over hiring that took place in '21 and '22 in the immediate aftermath of the pandemic and the macroeconomic uncertainty, interest rate volatility and inflation that followed. These conditions have produced a near universal cooling effect on US employment, including businesses use of contingent labor and the hiring of full-time personnel.

現在進入今天的發言環節。從 2023 年下半年開始，一直到 2024 年，以及 2025 年至今，我們在人力資源服務招募環境中遇到了非常困難和充滿挑戰的條件，並且這種情況還在持續。這些因素源自於多種方面，包括 2021 年和 2022 年疫情爆發後出現的過度招聘，以及隨之而來的宏觀經濟不確定性、利率波動和通貨膨脹。這些情況對美國就業產生了幾乎普遍的降溫效應，包括企業使用臨時工和僱用全職員工的情況。

Since 2023, many client initiatives such as IT projects and corporate expansion activities requiring additional labor in general, have been put on hold. Instead, many of these businesses we serve have implemented and proceeded with layoffs and hiring freezes and in many cases, have focused on retaining their existing employees rather than adding new employees. Companies and businesses are cautiously assessing the potential for interest rate cuts and changing market conditions to ensure their investments in technology and human capital are strategic and sustainable.

自 2023 年以來，許多客戶計劃，如 IT 專案和通常需要額外勞動力的企業擴張活動，都被擱置了。相反，我們服務的這些企業中有很多已經實施並繼續進行裁員和凍結招聘，而且在許多情況下，它們都專注於留住現有員工，而不是增加新員工。公司和企業正在謹慎評估降息的可能性和不斷變化的市場狀況，以確保其在技術和人力資本方面的投資具有策略性和可持續性。

Artificial intelligence, or AI, is gaining ground at an accelerated pace and is further complicating the demand for and use of human resources for certain tasks and is influencing project planning and capital expenditures. Collectively, these conditions have had a killing effect on our business and resulted in fewer job orders for both contract personnel and direct hire placements.

人工智慧（AI）正在以驚人的速度發展，進一步加劇了某些任務對人力資源的需求和使用，並影響專案規劃和資本支出。總的來說，這些情況對我們的業務造成了致命打擊，導致合約工和直接僱用的職位訂單減少。

Our financial results for the fiscal 2025 third quarter and year-to-date ended June 30, 2025, have been impacted by these conditions as well. The company's contract and direct hire placement services are currently provided under its Professional Staffing Services operating division or segment.

受這些情況的影響，我們2025財年第三季及截至2025年6月30日的年初至今的財務表現也受到影響。該公司目前的合約工和直接招聘服務均由其專業人員配置服務營運部門或業務板塊提供。

On June 2, 2025, we entered into an agreement for the sale of certain operating assets of the Industrial segment, including those of BMCH Inc. Triad Logistics, Inc. and our Triad Staffing brand. These results of the Industrial segment have been classified as discontinued operations and are excluded from the results of continuing operations reported below as well as in the unaudited consolidated condensed financial statements included in our quarterly report on Form 10-Q for this quarter, unless otherwise stated.

2025 年 6 月 2 日，我們達成協議出售工業部門的某些營運資產，包括 BMCH Inc.、Triad Logistics, Inc. 和我們的 Triad Staffing 品牌。這些工業部門的業績已被歸類為終止經營業務，除非另有說明，否則不包含在下文報告的持續經營業務業績以及本季度 10-Q 表格季度報告中包含的未經審計的合併簡明財務報表中。

Consolidated revenues were $24.5 million for the quarter and $73 million year-to-date. Gross profits and gross margins were $8.7 million and 35.4%, respectively, for the quarter and $25 million and 34.2% respectively, year-to-date. Consolidated non-GAAP adjusted EBITDA was negative $25,000 for the quarter and negative $918,000 year-to-date. We reported a net loss from continuing operations of $400,000 and or $0.00 per diluted share for the quarter and a net loss from continuing operations of $34 million or $0.31 per diluted share year-to-date.

本季合併收入為 2,450 萬美元，年初至今為 7,300 萬美元。本季毛利和毛利率分別為 870 萬美元和 35.4%，年初至今分別為 2,500 萬美元和 34.2%。本季合併非GAAP調整後EBITDA為負25,000美元，年初至今為負918,000美元。本季持續經營業務淨虧損 40 萬美元，即每股攤薄虧損 0.00 美元；年初至今持續經營業務淨虧損 3,400 萬美元，即每股攤薄虧損 0.31 美元。

We are aggressively taking actions to adapt to the current business climate and refine our strategic focus, growth plans to improve operating performance and financial results. These include streamlining our core operations and improving and adjusting our productivity to match our current business volume, which helped us improve our results in terms of non-GAAP adjusted EBITDA and EBITDA.

我們正在積極採取措施，適應當前的商業環境，並完善我們的策略重點和成長計劃，以提高營運績效和財務表現。這些措施包括簡化我們的核心運營，以及改進和調整我們的生產力以適應我們當前的業務量，這有助於我們在非GAAP調整後的EBITDA和EBITDA方面提高業績。

In addition to our ongoing cost reduction and system and business integration initiatives, we have a renewed focus on VMS and MSP sourced business, including the use of special recruiting resources and acceleration of the integration and use of AI technology into our recruiting, sales and other processes. Importantly, we anticipate continuing improvements in our productivity, aiding in restoring meaningful profitability as soon as practically possible.

除了我們持續推進的成本削減、系統和業務整合計劃外，我們還重新關注 VMS 和 MSP 來源的業務，包括利用特殊的招聘資源，並加快將人工智慧技術整合到我們的招聘、銷售和其他流程中。重要的是，我們預計生產效率將持續提高，有助於盡快恢復有意義的獲利能力。

In addition to the aforementioned near-term initiatives, we are working closely with our frontline leaders in the field across all of our verticals to support them as we all continue to aggressively pursue new business as well as opportunities to grow and expand existing client revenues. We are seeing some positive results, particularly in the direct hire placement business as the volatility and macroeconomic uncertainty currently gripping our economy and labor markets begin to subside, I am very confident we are well positioned to meet the increased demand from existing customers and win significant new business.

除了上述近期舉措外，我們還與各垂直領域的一線領導密切合作，為他們提供支持，因為我們將繼續積極尋求新業務以及發展和擴大現有客戶收入的機會。我們看到了一些正面的成果，尤其是在直接招募業務方面。隨著目前困擾我們經濟和勞動市場的波動性和宏觀經濟不確定性開始消退，我非常有信心我們能夠很好地滿足現有客戶不斷增長的需求，並贏得重要的新業務。

As you also know, we paused share repurchases on December 31, 2023, having repurchased just over 5% of our outstanding shares as of the beginning of the program. Share repurchases always will be considered as an alternative component of our capital allocation strategy and a bona fide alternative use of excess capital in the future if and when considered prudent.

如您所知，我們已於 2023 年 12 月 31 日暫停股票回購，截至該計劃開始之時，我們已回購了略高於 5% 的流通股。股票回購將始終被視為我們資本配置策略的替代組成部分，並且在未來，如果認為審慎，也是剩餘資本的合理替代用途。

We fully intend to successfully navigate through the challenges outlined previously and are laser-focused on revenue growth, expense reduction and profitability. GEE Group has a strong balance sheet with substantial liquidity in the form of cash and borrowing capacity. The company is well positioned to grow organically and to be acquisitive. We believe that our stock price will improve and that there is a good opportunity for upward movement once we are able to operate again in a more optimal economic environment with improved labor conditions.

我們完全有信心成功應對前面提到的挑戰，並將重點放在收入成長、成本降低和獲利能力上。GEE集團擁有強勁的資產負債表，現金及借貸能力等流動性充足。該公司具備實現自身有機成長和進行收購的良好條件。我們相信，一旦我們能夠在更有利的經濟環境和更好的勞動條件下重新運營，我們的股價將會上漲，並且存在良好的上漲機會。

Before I turn the call over to Kim, I wish to thank our dedicated employees and associates who work extremely hard every day to ensure that our clients get the very best service. They are a key ingredient in driving our company's success.

在將電話交給 Kim 之前，我想感謝我們敬業的員工和同事們，他們每天都非常努力地工作，以確保我們的客戶獲得最好的服務。他們是推動公司成功的關鍵因素。

At this time, I'll turn the call over to our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Kim Thorpe, who will further elaborate on our fiscal 2025 third quarter and year-to-date results. Kim?

此時，我將把電話轉交給我們的高級副總裁兼財務長金·索普，她將進一步詳細介紹我們 2025 財年第三季和年初至今的業績。金？

Thank you, Derek, and good morning, everyone. As Derek mentioned in his remarks, our former Industrial segment results are now excluded from continuing operations and comparisons I will address today.

謝謝你，德瑞克，大家早安。正如德里克在演講中提到的，我們以前的工業部門業績現在已從持續經營和比較中剔除，我今天將對此進行說明。

So consolidated revenues, again from continuing operations for the quarter and year-to-date were $24.5 million and $73 million down 9% and 10% from the comparable prior year periods. Professional contract staffing services revenues for the quarter and year-to-date were $21.3 million and $64.3 million, down 10% and 11%, respectively, from the comparable prior year periods. Direct hire revenues for the quarter and year-to-date were $3.2 million and $8.7 million, respectively, which were near breakeven compared with their comparable prior periods.

因此，本季和年初至今的合併收入（來自持續經營業務）分別為 2,450 萬美元和 7,300 萬美元，比上年同期分別下降 9% 和 10%。本季和年初至今的專業合約人員配備服務收入分別為 2,130 萬美元和 6,430 萬美元，與去年同期相比分別下降了 10% 和 11%。本季和年初至今的直接招聘收入分別為 320 萬美元和 870 萬美元，與之前的同期相比，基本達到損益兩平。

Our top line performance for the fiscal third quarter and year-to-date has continued to be directly impacted by the challenging macroeconomic and labor market conditions facing us and the staffing industry as Derek commented on a moment ago. Gross profit and gross margin for the quarter and year-to-date were $8.7 million and 35.4% and $25 million and 34.2% respectively, compared to $9.2 million and 34.1% and $27 million and 33.4%, respectively, from the comparable prior year periods. Our lower gross profit dollars were mainly attributable to lower volumes of our professional contract staffing services revenues.

正如德瑞克剛才所說，我們第三財季和年初至今的營收業績持續受到我們和人力資源產業面臨的嚴峻宏觀經濟和勞動力市場狀況的直接影響。本季及年初至今的毛利和毛利率分別為 870 萬美元和 35.4%，以及 2,500 萬美元和 34.2%，而去年同期分別為 920 萬美元和 34.1%，以及 2,700 萬美元和 33.4%。我們毛利下降的主要原因是專業合約人員配備服務收入減少。

By contrast, the net increases in our gross margin are mainly attributable to the increase in the mix of direct hire placement revenues, which have a 100% gross margin relative to total revenue as our direct hire volume remained near breakeven in the current and prior comparable periods. While professional contract staffing services revenues were lower.

相較之下，我們毛利率的淨成長主要歸功於直接招聘收入佔比的增加，由於我們目前和以前可比期間的直接招聘量接近盈虧平衡，因此直接招聘收入相對於總收入的毛利率為 100%。雖然專業合約人員配備服務的收入較低。

Selling, general and administrative expenses for the quarter and year-to-date were $9 million and $26.7 million, down 8% and 9%, respectively, compared with the prior year periods. Given the realities of our present environment, we continue to reduce cost and focus heavily on streamlining our core operations and on improving productivity. This has helped us improve our results in terms of non-GAAP adjusted EBITDA and non-GAAP EBITDA in both the current quarter and year-to-date as compared with the prior comparable periods.

本季及年初至今的銷售、一般及行政費用分別為 900 萬美元及 2,670 萬美元，與去年同期相比分別下降 8% 及 9%。鑑於我們當前環境的實際情況，我們將繼續降低成本，並專注於簡化核心營運流程，提高生產效率。與先前的可比較期間相比，這有助於我們提高本季和年初至今的非GAAP調整EBITDA和非GAAP EBITDA業績。

In addition to our ongoing cost reduction and integration initiatives, we have also placed a renewed focus on VMS and MSP source business including use of special recruiting resources and acceleration of the integration and use of AI technology in our recruiting, sales and other processes.

除了持續推進成本削減和整合計劃外，我們還重新聚焦於 VMS 和 MSP 來源業務，包括利用特殊招聘資源，並加快將人工智慧技術整合到我們的招聘、銷售和其他流程中。

I also want to reemphasize that our plans are intended to restore and enhance profitability as soon as practically possible. Our loss from continuing operations, net loss from continuing operations for the quarter was $400,000 or just under -- or under $0.01 a share as compared with a loss of $18.1 million or approximately $0.17 per diluted share for the prior year quarter. Loss from continuing operations year-to-date was $34 million or $0.31 per diluted share as compared with net loss of $20 million -- $20.5 million or $0.19 per diluted share for the prior year to date.

我還要再次強調，我們的計劃旨在盡快恢復和提高盈利能力。本季持續經營業務淨虧損為 40 萬美元，或略低於每股 0.01 美元，去年同期虧損為 1,810 萬美元，或每股攤薄虧損約 0.17 美元。今年迄今，持續經營業務虧損 3,400 萬美元，即每股攤薄虧損 0.31 美元，而去年同期淨虧損為 2,000 萬美元——2,050 萬美元，即每股攤薄虧損 0.19 美元。

The larger net losses I just mentioned, $18 million, $34 million, $20 million were all impacted by noncash write-offs of intangibles and goodwill. EBITDA, which is a non-GAAP financial measure for the quarter and year-to-date improved to negative $270,000 and negative $1.7 million, respectively, as compared with negative $524,000 and negative $2.5 million for the comparable prior year periods.

我剛才提到的較大淨虧損，1,800萬美元、3,400萬美元、2,000萬美元，都是由於無形資產和商譽的非現金減損造成的。本季及年初至今的非GAAP財務指標EBITDA分別改善至負27萬美元及負170萬美元，而上年同期分別為負52.4萬美元及負250萬美元。

Adjusted EBITDA, also a non-GAAP financial measure for the quarter and year-to-date improved to a negative $25,000 or near breakeven and a negative $918,000, respectively, as compared to negative $329,000 and a negative $1 million for the comparable prior year periods, due primarily to cost reduction initiatives, and our increased gross margin, we were able to improve our EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA results so far this year as compared with the prior comparable periods.

經調整的 EBITDA（也是非 GAAP 財務指標）在本季和年初至今分別改善至負 25,000 美元（接近損益兩平）和負 918,000 美元，而去年同期分別為負 329,000 美元和負 100 萬美元。這主要得益於成本削減措施和毛利率的提高，與去年同期相比，我們今年迄今的 EBITDA 和經調整的 EBITDA 業績均有所改善。

Our current or working capital ratio as of June 30 was 4.2:1. We had negative free cash flow, a non-GAAP financial measure, including cash flows from discontinued operations for the nine months of $1.9 million as compared with negative cash flow of $1.2 million for the prior nine months year-to-date.

截至 6 月 30 日，我們的流動或營運資本比率為 4.2:1。我們的自由現金流（非 GAAP 財務指標，包括終止經營業務的現金流量）為負 190 萬美元，而去年同期為負 120 萬美元。

Our liquidity position as of June 30, 2025, remained very strong with $18.6 million in cash, an undrawn ABL credit facility with availability of $6.6 million, overall net working capital of $24.1 million and no outstanding debt. Our net book value per share and net tangible book value per share were $0.46 and $0.23, respectively, as of June 30, 2025.

截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日，我們的流動性狀況依然非常強勁，擁有 1,860 萬美元現金、660 萬美元的未提取 ABL 信貸額度、2,410 萬美元淨營運資本，且無未償債務。截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日，我們的每股淨帳面價值和每股淨有形帳面價值分別為 0.46 美元和 0.23 美元。

In conclusion, as Derek mentioned, we remain cautiously optimistic and are preparing for the long term as well, including making modernization improvements and enhancements led by the integration of AI across all of our businesses. Before I turn it back to Derek, please note that reconciliations of GEE Group's non-GAAP financial measures discussed today with their GAAP counterparts can be found in the supplemental schedules included in our earnings press release.

總之，正如德里克所提到的，我們保持謹慎樂觀的態度，並為長遠發展做好準備，包括透過在所有業務中整合人工智慧來進行現代化改進和增強。在把問題交還給德里克之前，請注意，今天討論的 GEE 集團非 GAAP 財務指標與其 GAAP 對應指標的調節表可以在我們盈利新聞稿中包含的補充附表中找到。

Now I'll turn the call back over to Derek.

現在我把電話轉回給德瑞克。

Thank you, Kim. Despite the macroeconomic headwinds and staffing industry challenges impacting the demand for our services, we are aggressively managing and preparing our business to mitigate them and be prepared for an anticipated recovery.

謝謝你，金。儘管宏觀經濟逆風和人力資源行業挑戰影響了對我們服務的需求，但我們正在積極管理和準備我們的業務，以減輕這些不利因素的影響，並為預期的復甦做好準備。

What we hope to take away from our earnings press release and our remarks today is that we are focused on growing revenues and streamlining our operations to reduce costs and gaining efficiencies by implementing AI and other technology while preparing for a more conducive and growth-oriented labor market. We will continue to work hard for the benefit of our shareholders including consistently evaluating strategic uses of GEE Group's capital to maximize shareholder returns.

我們希望透過今天的獲利新聞稿和演講傳達的訊息是，我們專注於增加收入、精簡營運以降低成本、提高效率，同時透過實施人工智慧和其他技術來應對更有利和以成長為導向的勞動力市場。我們將繼續努力為股東謀取利益，包括不斷評估 GEE 集團資本的策略用途，以最大限度地提高股東回報。

Now Kim and I would be happy to answer your questions.

現在我和金很樂意回答你們的問題。

(Event Instructions) So the first question is regarding updating the website regarding the sale of Triad. And we will do that post haste and refresh the website with other current activities that we're doing.

（活動說明）所以第一個問題是關於更新網站上有關 Triad 出售的資訊。我們會盡快完成這項工作，並更新網站，發布我們正在進行的其他活動。

The second question is capital allocation. And it's essentially talking about acquiring a company versus share repurchases and the risk associated with both. We are bullish on both activities at the appropriate time. And I think strategically, when it comes to share repurchases, I want you to hear from Kim, our CFO, who has a position that we all believe in. Kim?

第二個問題是資本配置。它本質上是在討論收購公司與股票回購之間的區別，以及兩者相關的風險。我們看好這兩項活動，並會在適當的時機進行。我認為，從策略角度來看，在股票回購方面，我想讓大家聽聽我們的財務長 Kim 的看法，我們都認同他的觀點。金？

Yeah. Thanks. The first part of the question is how do we decide whether to either buy shares back or do acquisitions or invest in other growth initiatives. And the answer is that we do financial measurement on all these things. And where we come down to currently is that once we get our positive cash flow back, which we expect to happen in the next six months, at least, then at that point, as we're generating positive cash flow, we'll then again take a look at share repurchases.

是的。謝謝。問題的第一部分是，我們如何決定是回購股份、進行收購或投資其他成長計畫。答案是，我們對所有這些事情都進行了財務衡量。而我們目前的想法是，一旦我們恢復正現金流（我們預計至少在未來六個月內會發生），那麼屆時，當我們產生正現金流時，我們將再次考慮股票回購。

We don't look at it in terms of share repurchases or M&A or other things one versus the other. We believe the appropriate approach is a blend to continue to get good yielding acquisitive look for value-adding acquisitions, which are accretive that will help grow the company. Doing share repurchases alone sounds good and it's very good for the shareholders who remain in the company for temporarily, but it does not grow the company and it requires cash and other resources to do it. So it's a balance.

我們不以股票回購、併購或其他方式來比較二者。我們認為，合適的方法是將兩者結合起來，繼續尋求收益良好的收購機會，尋找能夠增加公司價值的收購，這些收購能夠提升公司價值，並幫助公司成長。單獨進行股票回購聽起來不錯，對暫時留在公司的股東來說也很好，但這並不能促進公司發展，而且需要現金和其他資源才能做到。所以這是一種平衡。

And let me add, there's a second question that talks about M&A. What's the status of our target list and how many do we have? What's the expectation and timing of closing deals?

另外，還有一個問題是關於併購的。我們的目標名單現況如何？我們目前有多少目標客戶？交易達成的預期目標和時間安排是什麼？

We have several deals that we've considered, done diligence on and, in fact, had letters of intent, nonbinding. We pulled back on most of those because as you know, the industry is in what I call a stagnant to down mode right now and their results have trailed downward. So what we don't want to do is purchase a company with declining revenue, and we're looking for stabilization. So the relationships are hot still, we keep those going. And when we see stabilization, we'll be able to move forward on the deals. So that's our strategic focus.

我們已經考慮過幾次交易，進行了盡職調查，實際上也簽署了意向書，但這些意向書不具約束力。我們撤回了其中大部分投資，因為正如你所知，目前該行業正處於我所說的停滯甚至下滑階段，它們的表現也持續走低。所以我們不想收購一家收入不斷下降的公司，我們尋求的是穩定。所以，這些關係依然很融洽，我們會繼續維持下去。當市場趨於穩定時，我們就能推進這些交易。這就是我們的策略重點。

And the other aspect of this is price expectation. So selling off of prior year or prior two years' results, doesn't cut it with us. We're focused on what's your current run rate, what's your current earnings rate and so forth and what kind of synergies can we get on the deal as well. So keeping all that in mind, discipline is very important here.

另一方面，價格預期也是一個重要面向。所以，僅僅依靠前一年或前兩年的業績來做決定，對我們來說是行不通的。我們關注的是你們目前的營運速度、目前的獲利能力等等，以及我們能從這筆交易中獲得什麼樣的綜效。所以，考慮到以上所有因素，紀律在這裡非常重要。

And as Kim said, our first and main objective is to restore positive cash flow from operations, and we're getting very close on that. And when we do that, that gives us the opportunity to also pursue share repurchases and other activities, but most importantly, it allows us to focus on acquisitions that are on the upswing or at least flat lined and not declining in terms of revenue growth and profitability.

正如金所說，我們的首要目標是恢復經營活動產生的正現金流，而我們離這個目標已經非常接近了。這樣做，我們就能有機會進行股票回購和其他活動，但最重要的是，這使我們能夠專注於那些正在上升或至少保持平穩而不是在收入增長和盈利能力方面下降的收購項目。

So it takes a lot of discipline and analysis to do the right deal. And we're very, very focused on looking deep down to make sure that whatever performance we look at today is sustainable and on the upward swing. Do you want to add anything, Kim?

所以，要達成正確的交易，需要很強的自律性和分析能力。我們非常注重深入分析，以確保我們今天所看到的任何業績都是可持續的，並且處於上升趨勢。金，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

The only thing I would add is, obviously, AI is top of mind for everyone today. It's all over everything we pick up and read here. It's a topic of every conversation we have. So we've sprinkled in that ingredient into our criteria so that when we look at other businesses, we want -- we're not suggesting they have to be AI champions at this point, but we also consider the opportunities of how AI can be used in our combined businesses going forward including looking at companies that might have AI tools for the staffing industry and under development and we have targets like that.

我唯一要補充的是，很顯然，人工智慧是當今每個人都非常關注的問題。在這裡，我們拿起來讀到的每一本書裡都充斥著這種內容。這是我們每次談話都會談到的話題。因此，我們將這一因素融入我們的標準中，這樣，當我們考察其他企業時，我們希望——我們並不是說他們現在必須成為人工智慧領域的領導企業，但我們也會考慮人工智慧在未來如何應用於我們合併後的業務，包括考察那些可能擁有用於人力資源行業的人工智慧工具，並且正在開發此類工具的公司，我們也有類似的目標。

Yes. And in our streamlining of cost process, AI is a big factor as well. And we also have an offshore recruiting component that we've expanded actually and will continue to grow to drop our cost structure and our recruiting costs, so -- and get maximum production for less money. I can talk more about AI and I think the appropriate thing to do is to update all of you subsequent to this call as we proceed with AI and publicly speak to what we've done and what our plans are regarding AI. I think it's very important. AI is here to stay.

是的。在我們簡化成本流程的過程中，人工智慧也是一個重要因素。此外，我們還有一個海外招聘部門，我們已經擴大了該部門的規模，並將繼續發展，以降低我們的成本結構和招聘成本，從而以更少的錢獲得最大的生產力。我可以更詳細地談談人工智慧，我認為合適的做法是在本次通話之後，隨著我們在人工智慧領域的進展，向大家報告最新情況，並公開談談我們已經做了什麼以及我們在人工智慧方面的計劃。我認為這非常重要。人工智慧已成為我們生活的一部分。

In some respects, and since we're on it, it has disintermediated some of the positions we typically would fill with personnel, with the human element. And that's across most of the verticals in accounting a bit -- you'll see it in IT on some of the entry level or what I call mundane type programming activities. However, there's still a lot to do out there, and we're focused on machine learning specialists, software, data scientists and so forth. So those are the high-demand skill sets, and that's why we need to tailor our focus particularly in our IT group.

在某些方面，既然我們正在研究它，它已經消除了我們通常用人事部門填補的一些職位中的人為因素。而且這種情況在會計領域的各個垂直行業都有所體現——在 IT 領域的一些入門級或我稱之為平凡的程式設計活動中也能看到這種情況。然而，還有很多工作要做，我們專注於機器學習專家、軟體、資料科學家等等。所以這些都是高需求技能，因此我們需要特別調整我們的IT團隊的重點。

On the accounting side, we're seeing robust movement at the upper end, CFOs, controllers, tax personnel at the high end. The lower mundane tasks of payables and payroll are the ones being replaced by AI. So it's both a benefit and a challenge, and we're up to it, and we're approaching our business on that model that AI is here to stay and will help us be more efficient, but that we've got to target the skill sets that are required in the marketplace to support it. And that's what we're doing.

在會計領域，我們看到高端人才市場出現了強勁的成長，包括財務長、財務長和稅務人員等。應付帳款和工資核算等較低階的日常工作正被人工智慧取代。所以這既是機會也是挑戰，我們已經準備好了。我們秉持著這樣的理念來開展業務：人工智慧將長期存在，並將幫助我們提高效率，但我們必須針對市場所需的技能組合來支援它。這就是我們正在做的。

Another question is that we've got here.

另一個問題是我們現在面臨的。

I think you've covered these three. I think this is the next one.

我認為你已經涵蓋了這三點。我認為這是下一個。

Okay. Kim, do you want to take that one?

好的。金，你想接那個嗎？

Yes. Can you please give us some color on the expected uses of cash that earmarked for M&A and hopefully, buybacks, et cetera.

是的。請您詳細說明一下，預留用於併購以及（希望）股票回購等方面的現金預期用途是什麼。

Yes, we -- as I just mentioned a minute ago, our approach to this is, especially since we're in the environment that we're currently in is to get cash flow positive again, which we are working at hard every day, and we're getting very close. We're very close to get cash flow positive again.

是的，正如我剛才提到的，我們採取的策略是，尤其是在我們目前所處的環境下，要再次實現正現金流，我們每天都在為此努力，而且我們已經非常接近目標了。我們很快就能再次實現正現金流了。

And then to use that cash, reconsider reinstating stock buybacks as one potential use of incrementally generated cash going forward, but keeping a nice pool of cash as large as we can hold on to for the eventuality of one or more good acquisitions. So it's hard to budget that out exactly because you don't know where the opportunities are 6 months from now on M&A, but that's how we're approaching it.

然後，為了利用這些現金，可以重新考慮恢復股票回購，作為未來逐步產生的現金的一種潛在用途，但同時也要保持盡可能多的現金儲備，以備將來進行一項或多項好的收購。因此很難準確地制定預算，因為你不知道 6 個月後併購機會在哪裡，但這就是我們採取的方法。

One of the questions in connection with M&A is what are you targeting? And also what staffing or non-staffing activities are you approaching?

併購中一個重要的問題是：你的目標是什麼？另外，你們正在著手進行哪些人員配備或非人員配備方面的活動？

So we're moving up the food chain toward the consultancy type businesses and thinking on of the box on what type of activities will grow in today's economy that are complementary to staffing, but not necessarily directly in the staffing/human resources business. So that was an excellent question, and that's absolutely a focus of our efforts on the M&A front.

因此，我們正在向食物鏈上游邁進，進入諮詢類企業，並跳出固有思維，思考在當今經濟中哪些類型的活動會發展壯大，這些活動與人員配備互補，但不一定直接屬於人員配備/人力資源業務。這是一個非常好的問題，這絕對是我們在併購方面工作的重點。

Let me add one more thing on that question. The question also says how should we be thinking about additional draws on cash to fund working capital needs, et cetera?

關於這個問題，我再補充一點。問題也提到，我們應該如何考慮額外提領現金來滿足營運資金需求等等？

Our business is very efficient. It's -- it probably has a 95% to 97% cash correlation with operations because -- and over the long term and especially now because we do have NOLs and so we're not in a high taxpaying position. Our EBITDA is a pretty good proxy for what our cash flow is. So that's a good way to think about it.

我們的業務效率非常高。它與營運的現金相關性可能高達 95% 到 97%，因為——而且從長遠來看，尤其是現在，因為我們有淨經營虧損，所以我們的稅務義務並不高。我們的 EBITDA 可以很好地反映我們的現金流狀況。所以，這是一種很好的思考方式。

Here's a very good question that I get often. Can you explain how other staffing companies are doing so much better than GEE Group?

這是一個我常被問到的好問題。你能解釋為什麼其他人資公司比GEE集團做得好那麼多嗎？

So we look at peer group analysis constantly to see what they're doing, how they're doing and so forth. A case in point is Robert Half, a very blue-chip staffing company, and that has a lot of the verticals that we have. So I analyze Robert Half's results. And if you dig in, you'll see that their permanent placement/direct hire business and contract staffing business both declined in the 10% to 12% range.

因此，我們會不斷進行同儕團體分析，看看他們在做什麼，做得怎麼樣等等。羅伯特·哈夫（Robert Half）就是一個很好的例子，這是一家非常優秀的人力資源公司，它擁有我們許多相同的垂直領域。所以我分析了羅伯特·哈夫的表現。如果你深入研究，你會發現他們的永久職位安置/直接招聘業務和合約人員配備業務都下降了 10% 到 12%。

However, their aggregate revenue decline was much less because of their Protiviti high-end consulting division. So that bears out that as a hedge against the downturn in the traditional staffing roles that we fill that the higher-end consultancy will offset that. So the decline is very similar to ours, unfortunately, but it's the reality.

然而，由於旗下擁有高端顧問部門 Protiviti，他們的總收入下降幅度要小得多。因此，這證實了，作為對沖傳統招聘職位下滑的手段，高端諮詢業務將抵消這種下滑的影響。所以，不幸的是，這種衰退與我們的情況非常相似，但這卻是現實。

Some of the other staffing companies are down somewhere between 6% and 12%. Interestingly, those that have international focus like Manpower, Adecco Group, Randstad, and so forth and to a lesser degree, Kelly and I'm using those because they are the behemoths that have a lot of foreign business or international business. The international segment outperformed the US segment.

其他一些人力資源公司的業績下滑幅度在 6% 到 12% 之間。有趣的是，像 Manpower、Adecco Group、Randstad 等那些具有國際視野的公司，以及在某種程度上，我和 Kelly 之所以使用這些公司，是因為它們是擁有大量海外業務或國際業務的巨頭。國際市場表現優於美國市場。

So that buffered some of the results. But when they report, they segment down to the US versus international, and their US decline is almost a mirror image of ours. That's not an excuse, though, for lack of performance because our share of the market can be increased irrespective of whether the growth in the industry takes place. So that's our approach.

這樣可以緩衝部分結果。但當他們發布報告時，他們會將數據細分為美國和國際數據，而他們在美國的數據下滑幾乎與我們的情況完全相反。但這並不是業績不佳的藉口，因為無論產業是否成長，我們的市佔率都可以增加。這就是我們的方法。

And I think being nimble and quick and good at what we're doing and provide the best resources to the customers, priced right is very important. But I hope that answers the question, and I do peer group analysis all the time. I hate to say misery does not love company. I can tell you that. And we're not satisfied in any respect to the decline in revenue.

我認為，靈活敏捷、有效率地做好我們所做的事情，並以合理的價格為客戶提供最好的資源，這一點非常重要。但我希望這能回答這個問題，而且我一直都在進行同儕團體分析。我不得不說，痛苦並不需要陪伴。我可以告訴你這一點。我們對收入下降的情況在任何方面都不滿意。

However, we're turning the corner on the profit side and with a boost in the revenue side, we should be able to produce some good results. So that's our approach, and we take it very seriously. And we're not burning through cash. If you notice the cash position has been fairly constant despite a little bit of negative cash flow, but we've been tightening the belt across the board. So look at the cash position, it hasn't moved much quarter-to-quarter.

然而，我們在獲利方面正在扭轉局面，隨著收入方面的成長，我們應該能夠取得一些不錯的成績。這就是我們的方法，我們非常重視。而且我們並沒有揮霍資金。如果您注意到，儘管現金流略有為負，但現金狀況一直相當穩定，不過我們一直在全面勒緊褲腰帶。所以看看現金狀況，它與上一季相比變化不大。

Next question. Well, there's another buyback question. Why not put it in similar to Berkshire Hathaway? And Again, I think Kim's point on getting the cash flow toward the positive and sustainable will help us consider more aggressive activities, including the share buyback.

下一個問題。嗯，還有一個回購問題。為什麼不把它像波克夏‧哈撒韋公司那樣對待呢？而且，我認為金提出的讓現金流轉正並實現永續發展的觀點，將有助於我們考慮更積極的活動，包括股票回購。

Can you elaborate more simply on the impact of AI on demand for staffing? I covered that somewhat and how it was disrupting staffing. In contrast to Robert Half, which said in its July call, there has not been a significant impact of AI on revenue. That's interesting because Robert Half, I pulled their press release and their report, I saw it, but when I looked at what they were doing. Robert Half, in many respects, doesn't staff some of the higher-end IT projects that we do and that AI has impacted the demand for the talent. So there is a difference in the type of business.

您能否更簡潔地闡述人工智慧對人員需求的影響？我對此有所提及，並解釋了它如何擾亂了人員配備。與 Robert Half 在 7 月的電話會議上所說的不同，人工智慧對收入沒有重大影響。這很有意思，因為我查閱了 Robert Half 的新聞稿和報告，我看到了，但當我查看他們正在做的事情時。在很多方面，Robert Half 並沒有為我們做的一些高階 IT 專案配備人員，而人工智慧已經影響了對人才的需求。所以，這兩種業務類型是有差別的。

Now on the flip side, on the recovery end, they won't benefit as much on the upside. But AI and -- that may be their opinion. But if you look across the board, if you look at CNBC or Fox business or any commentary, they're all talking about the impact of AI on employment in general, not just staffing companies. So AI is good. It's here to stay, and you have to be reactive to it, and not use it as a crutch saying, oh, we're not performing because AI.

但另一方面，在復甦階段，他們不會獲得那麼大的利益。但人工智慧——這或許是他們的觀點。但如果你放眼全局，看看 CNBC 或福斯商業頻道，或任何評論，他們都在談論人工智慧對整體就業的影響，而不僅僅是對人力資源公司的影響。所以人工智慧是好事。人工智慧已經成為我們生活的一部分，我們必須積極應對，而不是把它當作藉口，說「哦，我們表現不好是因為人工智慧」。

AI has its maximum yield so far and I would just say so far in recruiting. I mean, because it's a great recruit because it can go out -- if you can look at a lot of data quickly, it could send a lot of messages quickly and it can turn and call.

目前來看，人工智慧在招募方面已經發揮了最大作用。我的意思是，因為它是一個很棒的招募工具，因為它能夠快速查看大量數據，快速發送大量訊息，並且可以隨時發起通話。

And using AI agents on the sales side, we're all over that and on the recruiting side. And so to be able to grow without adding headcount and internal cost is the key and to streamline the existing business that we already have. So we've embraced AI, and we will make an announcement with the tools that we're using to talk more. I'll give you an example. We're doing away with phone systems. That's on the agenda replaced by traditional phone systems. And requiring more or relying more on cellular activities and outreach with AI.

在銷售方面，我們已經全面採用了人工智慧代理，在招募方面也是如此。因此，關鍵在於如何在不增加員工人數和內部成本的情況下成長，並精簡我們現有的業務。所以我們已經擁抱了人工智慧，我們將發佈公告，介紹我們正在使用的工具，以便進行更深入的探討。我給你舉個例子。我們正在逐步淘汰電話系統。這是被傳統電話系統取代的計劃之一。而且需要更多地依賴或更多地依賴蜂窩活動和人工智慧進行外聯。

We're updating our applicant and tracking systems and embedding AI into our applicant in a very big way.

我們正在更新申請人和追蹤系統，並將人工智慧大規模地嵌入申請人系統中。

In a very big way. So we're actually very excited about how AI will transform the industry. And also from an acquisition standpoint, the potential and possibility of acquiring a company that's bent toward AI. And I don't want to get too far ahead of it on that one. But those are the things we're doing right now. And we're embracing AI, not using it as a crutch for lack of performance.

非常大幅度地。所以，我們對人工智慧將如何改變這個產業感到非常興奮。從收購的角度來看，還有收購一家專注於人工智慧的公司的可能性。我不想在這件事上走得太遠。但這些正是我們目前正在做的事。我們正在擁抱人工智慧，而不是把它當作彌補效能不足的拐杖。

So what do we want to do? Will you be offering AI as a service or just from internal automate. That's an excellent question. The answer is offering AI as a service is on the agenda as well. You have mentioned AI tech for a few quarters, what products have you implemented? What are the results cost savings? That's a great one. And we'll come out publicly and talk about our cost savings and how AI is being used to help drive that. I think based on what we have. And it takes a little while to implement. So that's what we're in the process of right now.

那我們想做什麼呢？你們會提供人工智慧服務，還是只提供內部自動化服務？這是一個很好的問題。答案是，提供人工智慧服務也在計畫中。您在過去幾季中多次提到人工智慧技術，您已經實施了哪些產品？結果能節省多少成本？那真是個好主意。我們將公開談論我們的成本節約情況，以及人工智慧如何幫助推動成本節約。我認為，就我們目前所擁有的條件而言。而且實施起來需要一些時間。這就是我們目前正在進行的工作。

Do you regret buying Hornet? No, Hornet actually has helped us tremendously because there's cross utilization of the recruiting resources overseas. So that's been a good pickup. And the gentlemen that joined us leading the charts, Larry Bruce has embraced the entire organization and has helped the sales team in multiple engagements.

你後悔買了Hornet嗎？不，實際上「大黃蜂」對我們幫助很大，因為海外的招募資源可以交叉利用。所以這是一筆不錯的投資。加入我們並領導排行榜的先生們，拉里布魯斯已經融入了整個組織，並在多個項目中幫助了銷售團隊。

Yeah. We've -- in fact, we've more than doubled the international resource platform that we have for recruiting, and it's now being utilized in two of our other businesses, and it's growing. So that's going to be a good source for us going forward.

是的。事實上，我們已經將用於招募的國際資源平台擴大了一倍多，現在它正在我們另外兩家公司中使用，而且還在不斷發展壯大。所以這將會是我們未來一個很好的資訊來源。

Here's a good question. Just to be clear, are you developing your own AI staffing tools and/or are you using and implementing readily available AI tools? The answer is yes. So we have some internal development and then we have some shelf packages that we will be implementing as well. So it's a combination of both.

這是個好問題。為了明確起見，您是自行開發人工智慧人員配置工具，還是使用和實施現成的人工智慧工具？答案是肯定的。所以，我們有一些內部研發成果，同時我們也有一些現成的軟體包需要實施。所以它是兩者的結合。

How large is the offshore IT segment? Is this mainly used for cost cutting or solution-based work? It's mainly used for recruiting across the board.

離岸IT市場規模有多大？這主要用於降低成本還是以解決問題為導向的工作？它主要用於全面招聘。

Our goal is to grow that platform significantly. Like I said, it's more than doubled in size since January. So it's growing, and it's being embraced more and more by other counterparts in the business. So in fact, we'll talk about one project we recently did where we were able to recruit and onboard 80 individuals for a single project within a matter of days because of the additional resources we had through Hornet.

我們的目標是大幅發展這個平台。正如我所說，自一月份以來，它的面積已經擴大了一倍以上。所以它正在發展壯大，並且越來越受到業內其他同行的認可。事實上，我們將談談我們最近完成的一個項目，由於我們透過 Hornet 獲得了額外的資源，我們能夠在幾天之內為一個項目招募和培訓 80 名人員。

Yes. Another question. This is a good one. How are your competitors reacting to a weak environment? Are they reducing prices to get volume? Are they exiting the business since they can't make a profit?

是的。還有一個問題。這個不錯。面對疲軟的市場環境，你的競爭對手是如何應對的？他們是否為了提高銷售量而降低價格？他們是因為無法獲利而退出這個行業嗎？

Well, the answer is they're not exiting the business. And I think this is noteworthy about our performance. Our gross margins actually improved this quarter over last year, and they're significant. They're in the mid-30s. So when you look at us on a peer group basis, we're doing excellent on gross margin as is a Robert Half and somebody -- in fact, I looked at theirs, we may have been a little bit higher this quarter, at least on par with them. So we're doing pricing pretty good. However, we need more volume. And that's what we're holding the line. We're not discounting prices substantially at all. Our competitors might, but they don't -- they're not on the high end.

答案是，他們不會退出這個行業。我認為這是我們表現中值得注意的一點。本季我們的毛利率實際上比去年同期有所提高，而且增幅顯著。他們都三十多歲了。所以，從同行的角度來看，我們的毛利率表現非常出色，Robert Half 和其他一些公司也是如此——事實上，我看過他們的數據，我們這季度的毛利率可能略高一些，至少和他們持平。所以我們定價做得相當不錯。但是，我們需要更大的容量。這就是我們堅守的底線。我們根本沒有大幅降價。我們的競爭對手或許會這樣做，但他們不會——他們不是高端客戶。

Here we go. Many of your competitors are emphasizing consulting Protiviti, RHI, statement of work and other products. Do you see a migration toward that SOW and how are we responding? The answer is an absolute yes. That is a spot-on question. I gave you an analysis of Robert Half's result and how the consulting side buffered the staffing side.

開始了。你們的許多競爭對手都在強調諮詢 Protiviti、RHI、工作說明書和其他產品。您是否看到向該工作範圍的轉變？我們是如何應對的？答案是絕對肯定的。這真是個好問題。我向你分析了 Robert Half 的業績，以及顧問業務如何緩衝了人員配置的問題。

So we are moving aggressively toward that. And that's why we're not trying to do vanilla staffing acquisitions, okay? I call them vanilla because that's what they are. I think moving into SOW and specialty consulting services, I had a bench in my prior life and took advantage of that. So when we call it the bench, you actually have consultants similar to a big 4 or Protiviti over at Robert Half. ASGN also has that.

所以我們正在積極朝著這個方向努力。所以，我們不打算進行普通的員工招聘，懂嗎？我稱它們為香草味的，因為它們就是香草味的。我認為，轉行到SOW和專業諮詢服務領域，得益於我之前累積的經驗和優勢。所以當我們稱之為「人才儲備庫」時，實際上指的是像 Robert Half 的四大或 Protiviti 那樣的諮詢顧問團隊。ASGN也有這個功能。

One question is, would GEE consider joining a larger company? GEE will do whatever benefits the shareholder group as a whole. And that's as a public company, that's my responsibility and our Board's responsibility. So we always have to consider that for sure. And if shareholder value gets maximized.

一個問題是，GEE 是否會考慮加入更大的公司？GEE 將做任何有利於全體股東的事情。作為一家上市公司，這是我的責任，也是我們董事會的責任。所以我們必須始終考慮到這一點。如果股東價值最大化的話。

And so -- and we think the combination with synergies and all that works, then we'll do it. And likewise, we can do everything and anything that benefits the business as a whole and takes care of employees and move forward. So we're thrilled with that potential.

所以——如果我們認為這種結合綜效等因素能夠奏效，那麼我們就會去做。同樣地，我們可以做任何有利於企業整體發展、照顧員工並推動企業前進的事情。所以我們對這種潛力感到非常興奮。

Would you have consulting the question probably, we just not authorized buybacks even if you're not ready to repurchase?

您可能諮詢過這個問題，但我們目前沒有授權回購，即使您還沒準備好回購？

Let me answer that question. It only takes one single board action and then a quick call to our -- we have a broker on standby. The reason for not authorizing it and leaving it out there on use is because we think that's a little.

讓我來回答這個問題。只需董事會做出一個決定，然後快速給我們打個電話——我們有經紀人隨時待命。之所以不授權並任其使用，是因為我們認為這有點…

I don't want to be misleading. But let me tell you this. We have an account set up, we have funds in that account. We do for a potential buyback. So it's a matter of a few days to turn on the spigot when and if it's appropriate. So that's a great question. And it says you don't have to make an announcement. That -- so as a public company, we, in fact, do have to make an announcement and that's what's appropriate and required.

我不想誤導任何人。但我得告訴你一件事。我們已經開設了帳戶，帳戶裡也有資金。我們這樣做是為了將來可能回購。所以，如果時機合適，幾天內就可以打開水龍頭了。這是一個很好的問題。上面說你不需要發佈公告。所以，作為一家上市公司，我們確實需要發佈公告，這是適當且必要的。

What levered are you comfortable with after cash is exhausted? Well, typically borrowing on a cash flow basis, most of our borrowing would be against accounts receivable if and when we borrowed on the credit facility. But I would never go over 2.5 times EBITDA. And assuming you have positive EBITDA, that's kind of the benchmark for cash flow lending.

在現金耗盡後，您能接受的槓桿率是多少？通常情況下，我們會根據現金流進行借款，如果我們使用信貸額度進行借款，那麼我們的大部分借款將以應收帳款為抵押。但我絕對不會超過 EBITDA 的 2.5 倍。假設你的 EBITDA 為正，這算是現金流貸款的基準。

Are we investing in sales to help plant seeds during the -- so we can take advantage of the upturn? Absolutely.

我們是否在銷售方面進行投資，以幫助在經濟低迷時期播下種子，以便我們能夠在經濟回升時抓住機會？絕對地。

Hornet is a perfect example of that, relatively low cost. We got an outstanding sales professional in the industry.

Hornet 就是個很好的例子，成本相對較低。我們聘請了一位業界傑出的銷售專家。

And we're going after high-volume MSP business, and we now have the recruiting resources to be able to deliver that on a profitable and economical basis. Are there any other questions?

我們正在瞄準大批量 MSP 業務，現在我們擁有足夠的招聘資源，能夠以盈利和經濟的方式實現這一目標。還有其他問題嗎？

No, that's it.

不，就是這樣。

Okay. At this point, that concludes our call. We sincerely appreciate you joining us today, and we are very bullish on the future, and we'll navigate through troubled waters. Thanks again for joining us.

好的。通話到此結束。我們衷心感謝您今天加入我們，我們對未來充滿信心，並將克服一切困難。再次感謝您的參與。