景順投信 (IVZ) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by and welcome to Invesco's Fourth Quarter Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Today's call is being recorded.

感謝您的支持，歡迎參加景順第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）今天的通話正在錄音。

Now I turn the call over to Greg Ketron, Invesco's Head of Investor Relations. Sir, you may begin.

現在我將電話轉給 Invesco 投資者關係主管 Greg Ketron。先生，您可以開始啦。

Thanks, Cedric, and to everyone joining the call today. In addition to today's press release, we have provided a presentation that covers the topics we plan to address. The press release and presentation are available on our website at Invesco.com. This information can be found by going to the Investor Relations section of the website.

謝謝塞德里克以及今天參加電話會議的所有人。除了今天的新聞稿之外，我們還提供了涵蓋我們計劃討論的主題的簡報。新聞稿和簡報可在我們的網站 Invesco.com 上找到。您可在網站的「投資者關係」部分找到此資訊。

Our presentation today will include forward-looking statements and certain non-GAAP financial measures. Please review the disclosures on slide 2 of the presentation regarding these statements and measures, as well as the Appendix for the appropriate reconciliations to GAAP. Finally, Invesco is not responsible for and does not edit nor guarantee the accuracy of our earnings teleconference transcript provided by third parties. The only authorized webcasts are located on our website.

我們今天的介紹將包括前瞻性陳述和某些非公認會計準則財務指標。請查看簡報第 2 張投影片中有關這些報表和措施的揭露，以及附錄中與 GAAP 適當的對帳。最後，景順不對第三方提供的收益電話會議記錄負責，也不編輯或保證其準確性。唯一授權的網路廣播位於我們的網站上。

Andrew Schlossberg, President CEO; and Allison Dukes, Chief Financial Officer, will present our results this morning, and then we'll open up the call for questions. I'll now turn the call over to Andrew.

總裁兼執行長 Andrew Schlossberg；財務長 Allison Dukes 將於今天上午介紹我們的業績，然後我們將開始提問。我現在將電話轉給安德魯。

Thanks a lot, Greg, and good morning to everyone. I'm pleased to be speaking with you today. During the fourth quarter and throughout 2024, we continue to make meaningful progress in executing our strategic priorities and leveraging our competitive advantages to improve on several key performance drivers. Amid a backdrop of volatile markets across the world, mixed economic signals, and geopolitical risks, our focus remains steadfast. This enabled us to deliver for clients and shareholders and meaningfully improve our operating results. I want to thank my colleagues around the world for their focus and teamwork throughout the year.

非常感謝，格雷格，大家早安。我很高興今天能與您交談。在第四季和整個 2024 年，我們將繼續在執行策略重點和利用競爭優勢來改善幾個關鍵績效驅動因素方面取得有意義的進展。在全球市場動盪、經濟訊號混雜和地緣政治風險的背景下，我們的重點仍然堅定。這使我們能夠為客戶和股東提供服務並顯著提高我們的經營業績。我要感謝世界各地的同事們一年來的專注和團隊合作。

But before we get into the specifics of the fourth quarter, we thought it would be helpful to look at the whole of 2024 and the progress made against the eight key financial measures that are noted on slide 4 of our presentation. The combination of strong long term net inflows of $65 billion or a 5% organic growth rate, higher revenues, and disciplined expense management while reinvesting into the business drove an increase in operating income to $1.4 billion. We generated positive operating leverage of over 100 basis points and improved our operating margins to over 31% for the year and 34% for the fourth quarter, marking good sequential momentum throughout 2024.

但在了解第四季度的具體情況之前，我們認為回顧一下整個 2024 年以及我們簡報第 4 張投影片中列出的八項關鍵財務指標所取得的進展會有所幫助。650 億美元的長期強勁淨流入或 5% 的有機成長率、更高的收入、嚴格的費用管理以及對業務的再投資，推動營業收入增加至 14 億美元。我們產生了超過 100 個基點的正營業槓桿，並將全年營業利潤率提高至 31% 以上，第四季度營業利潤率提高至 34%，標誌著 2024 年全年保持良好的連續發展勢頭。

While client demand and net flows remained more narrowly focused in the aggregate, we continued to gain market share and revenue growth in key high-demand strategic capabilities, including our global ETF, fixed income, and SMA product ranges, all of which are highly scalable. We saw momentum build throughout the year for private and alternative credit strategies, both for institutional and wealth management clients.

雖然客戶需求和淨流量在整體上仍然較為集中，但我們在關鍵的高需求策略能力方面繼續獲得市場份額和收入成長，包括我們的全球 ETF、固定收益和 SMA 產品系列，所有這些產品都具有高度可擴展性。我們看到，全年私人和替代信貸策略的勢頭強勁，無論是針對機構客戶還是財富管理客戶。

Geographically, our net long-term flows remain positive across all three of our regions, with a notable pickup through the second half of the year in both our Asia Pacific and EMEA markets. Specifically in Asia Pacific, we generated 10% organic growth, marking its best year since 2021.

從地理上看，我們的三個地區的長期淨流量均保持正值，其中亞太地區和歐洲、中東和非洲地區下半年均出現明顯回升。具體來說，在亞太地區，我們實現了 10% 的有機成長，這是自 2021 年以來最好的一年。

Throughout 2024, we remain highly focused on retaining and selectively growing our fundamental equity investment strategies against the backdrop of outflows in the industry and for Invesco. This remains a key focus for the firm.

在整個 2024 年，在產業和景順資金流出的背景下，我們仍高度專注於保留和選擇性地發展我們的基本股權投資策略。這仍然是該公司關注的重點。

As we stressed throughout 2024, strengthening our balance sheet continues to be a priority. Through disciplined execution, we made strong progress and improved the financial flexibility of the firm. During the year, we reduced our debt, we improved our operating leverage and ended the year with a net cash position of nearly $100 million.

正如我們在 2024 年所強調的那樣，加強我們的資產負債表仍然是我們的首要任務。透過嚴格的執行，我們取得了長足的進步，並提高了公司的財務靈活性。在這一年中，我們減少了債務，提高了營運槓桿，年底的淨現金狀況接近 1 億美元。

Additionally, after commencing a more consistent share buyback program in the second half of the year, we returned 54% of earnings to common shareholders through buybacks and dividends in 2024, which was an increase from the previous year. Our success in 2024 gives us conviction in our focus, strategic priorities, our execution mindset, and our ability to continue to deliver enhanced and consistent operating performance and returns for our shareholders.

此外，在下半年啟動更一致的股票回購計畫後，我們在 2024 年透過回購和股利向普通股股東返還了 54% 的收益，比上一年有所增加。2024 年的成功使我們對我們的重點、策略重點、執行思維以及繼續為股東提供更好、更穩定的營運績效和回報的能力充滿信心。

Turning now to slide 5 and focusing on the fourth quarter, growth continues to be led by our highly innovative ETF and index platform, which had near -- historic organic long-term flows of $30 billion, which is a 25% annualized organic growth rate. Importantly, we continue to see our flows for ETFs broadened by asset classes in factors across our clients in all three regions.

現在轉到第 5 張投影片並關注第四季度，成長繼續由我們高度創新的 ETF 和指數平台引領，該平台擁有接近歷史性的 300 億美元的長期有機流量，即年化有機成長率為 25%。重要的是，我們繼續看到我們的 ETF 流量隨著三個地區客戶的資產類別而不斷擴大。

Growth in the US market continues to be led by our S&P 500 Equal Weight strategy; our equity momentum strategies, which accounted for nearly $5 billion of the net flows; and our Innovation Suite, which is headlined by QQQM, which garnered $3 billion of net inflows. This fund, which was launched just over four years ago, had one of its best quarters on record and has grown to nearly $40 billion in assets today. We also saw strong ETF growth from the EMEA, region with nearly $11 billion of net inflows on a source basis, with our locally listed S&P 500 topping the list.

美國市場的成長持續由我們的標準普爾 500 等權重策略引領；我們的股票動量策略，佔淨流量的近 50 億美元；我們的創新套件以 QQQM 為代表，已獲得 30 億美元的淨流入。該基金成立僅四年多，經歷了有史以來最好的季度之一，目前資產已增長至近 400 億美元。我們也看到 EMEA 地區的 ETF 成長強勁，按來源計算，該地區的淨流入資金接近 110 億美元，其中我們當地上市的標準普爾 500 指數位居榜首。

We also continue to innovate at scale. In the fourth quarter, we launched a new ETF that we customized in partnership with a Finnish pension insurer to meet climate-focused investment objectives. This ETF began trading with nearly $2.5 billion in assets, and set a new milestone as the largest ETF launched on record. Our ETF platform finished the quarter with record AUM and revenues. Revenue growth remained strong, up 7% from the third quarter and 31% from the fourth quarter last year. We remain very well positioned to continue to gain market share and use this scale platform for profitable growth.

我們也將持續大規模創新。第四季度，我們推出了一隻新的 ETF，該 ETF 是我們與一家芬蘭養老保險公司合作定制的，以滿足以氣候為重點的投資目標。該ETF開始交易時資產規模接近25億美元，創下了有史以來發行的最大ETF的新里程碑。我們的 ETF 平台在本季的資產管理規模和收入均創下了歷史新高。營收成長維持強勁，較第三季成長7%，較去年第四季成長31%。我們仍然處於非常有利的位置，可以繼續獲得市場份額，並利用這個規模平台來實現獲利成長。

Shifting to fundamental fixed income. After a strong third quarter, we saw modest net long-term outflows in the fourth quarter, primarily driven by stable value, which continues to be out of favor in the current rate environment, as money market yields are paying a premium to stable value.

轉向基本固定收益。在第三季表現強勁之後，我們看到第四季度出現了溫和的長期淨流出，這主要受到穩定價值的推動，但在當前利率環境下，穩定價值仍然不受青睞，因為貨幣市場收益率高於穩定價值。

Excluding this specific US-defined contribution product, our fundamental fixed income strategies continue to see solid flow growth of $1.5 billion in the quarter. Within the fundamental fixed income category, flow growth was led by our municipal bond strategies and driven by our fast-growing SMA platform, which reached $28 billion in AUM or 33% organic growth rate. Additionally, revenue generated from fundamental fixed income strategies grew by 9% in the fourth quarter as compared with the same quarter in '23.

除此特定的美國固定繳款產品外，我們的基本固定收益策略在本季持續實現 15 億美元的穩健流量成長。在基本固定收益類別中，流量成長由我們的市政債券策略引領，並由我們快速成長的 SMA 平台推動，該平台的 AUM 達到 280 億美元或 33% 的有機成長率。此外，第四季基本固定收益策略產生的營收與23年同期相比成長了9%。

It's important to note that our large and diverse fixed income product line, which totaled over $600 billion at year end, spans our geographic footprint and encompasses more than just our fundamental fixed income capability that's expressed on this slide. Looking at this more holistic view of our fixed income product set, which also includes fixed income ETFs, our China JV, private credit strategies, and global liquidity, we generated 8% AUM growth and net long-term inflows of nearly $27 billion in 2024.

值得注意的是，我們龐大且多樣化的固定收益產品線，截至年底總額超過 6000 億美元，涵蓋了我們的地理範圍，涵蓋的不僅僅是這張投影片上所展示的基本固定收益能力。從更全面的角度看我們的固定收益產品組合，其中還包括固定收益 ETF、我們的中國合資企業、私人信貸策略和全球流動性，我們在 2024 年實現了 8% 的 AUM 增長和近 270 億美元的長期淨流入。

Our fixed income capabilities have strong performance and are well positioned to meet client needs across the credit and duration spectrum, geographic preferences, active and passive exposures in public and private markets. We have plenty of reasons to be optimistic about our ability to capture flows as money increasingly rotates into these asset classes.

我們的固定收益能力表現強勁，能夠很好地滿足客戶在信用和期限範圍、地理偏好、公共和私人市場主動和被動風險敞口方面的需求。隨著資金越來越多地流入這些資產類別，我們有充分的理由對我們捕捉資金流動的能力感到樂觀。

Shifting now to private markets, which in aggregate drove long-term net inflows of nearly $1 billion in the quarter. Within the category, our private credit capabilities reported net inflows of $3.5 billion or 31% annualized organic growth rate. Growth was driven by bank loans and CLOs across several fund structures, including our industry leading senior loan ETF.

現在轉向私人市場，總體而言，本季推動長期淨流入近 10 億美元。在該類別中，我們的私人信貸能力報告淨流入為 35 億美元，或 31% 的年化有機成長率。成長主要由多個基金結構中的銀行貸款和 CLO 推動，其中包括我們行業領先的高級貸款 ETF。

In direct real estate, we also continue to see flows into INCREF, which is our real estate debt strategy targeting the wealth management channel. Launched only in 2023, this fund has doubled in size over the past two quarters and now stands at nearly $2.5 billion in AUM. I'll also note that our real estate team is well positioned in the institutional markets, with over $5 billion of dry powder to capitalize on emerging opportunities.

在直接房地產方面，我們也持續看到資金​​流入INCREF，這是我們針對財富管理管道的房地產債務策略。該基金於 2023 年推出，過去兩季規模擴大了一倍，目前資產管理規模已接近 25 億美元。我還要指出的是，我們的房地產團隊在機構市場中佔據有利地位，擁有超過 50 億美元的現金來利用新興機會。

Moving on to Asia Pacific. On a managed basis, in Asia, we saw a rebound this quarter, with net long-term inflows of $3.5 billion, led by positive flows from India, and $2.5 billion of net inflows into our China JV. Our China growth was driven by equity, particularly ETFs, which are becoming a fast-growing part of our China business, and where we see strong demand continuing. These flows were augmented by net inflows into fixed income. We have six new products launched in our China JV this quarter, including three ETF products. At a macro level in China, we're encouraged by the government's recent focus on economic stimulus, but overall, market sentiment has remained relatively weak and volatility remains high.

轉向亞太地區。在可管理的基礎上，本季我們在亞洲看到了反彈，長期淨流入達 35 億美元，其中印度的正流入最多，而我們在中國合資企業的淨流入則達 25 億美元。我們在中國的業務成長主要受到股票市場（尤其是 ETF）的推動，股票市場正在成為我們中國業務中成長最快的部分，我們看到其需求持續強勁。這些資金流動因固定淨收益流入而增強。本季度，我們在中國合資公司推出了六款新產品，其中包括三款 ETF 產品。從中國宏觀層面來看，政府近期重點採取的經濟刺激措施令我們感到鼓舞，但整體而言，市場情緒仍然相對疲軟，波動性仍然較高。

Looking more broadly at Asia Pacific as a region on a client-sourced basis, net inflows were even stronger at $7.5 billion for the quarter, which is a 13% annualized organic growth rate. This broader flow strength in the region highlights our success in leveraging our global product suite and our investment capabilities to meet demand across this important growth region. We had good inflows in Southeast Asia, driven by ETFs, along with continued strong inflows in Japan through our global equity and income strategy, which had $1.5 billion in net inflows and continues to be one of the top-selling active retail equity funds in the growing Japanese market.

更廣泛地從客戶來源的角度看亞太地區，本季淨流入資金更為強勁，達到 75 億美元，年化有機成長率為 13%。該地區更廣泛的流量實力凸顯了我們成功利用我們的全球產品套件和投資能力來滿足這一重要成長地區的需求。在 ETF 的推動下，我們在東南亞獲得了良好的資金流入，同時透過我們的全球股票和收益策略，我們在日本的資金流入持續強勁，該策略的淨流入量達到 15 億美元，並繼續成為不斷增長的日本市場上最暢銷的主動零售股票基金之一。

Turning to our multi-asset related capabilities, we saw net long-term outflows of $1.5 billion, driven by global asset allocation, particularly in our Balanced-Risk Allocation Strategy.

談到我們的多元資產相關能力，我們看到長期淨流出量為 15 億美元，這主要得益於全球資產配置，尤其是我們的平衡風險配置策略。

Finally, the relative pressure on fundamental equity flows have continued. However, as I pointed out previously, we have seen some moderation over time in the global international and emerging market segments. Net outflows in these strategies have been in the $2 billion per quarter range. Outflows in our emerging market strategies have been partially offset by the continued strength of global equity and income that I noted earlier, as well as net inflows in small-cap equities. While asset flows and our fundamental equity capabilities remain below our long-term expectations, market growth has aided revenue, resulting in a 10% increase in net revenues this quarter compared with the fourth quarter of 2023.

最後，基本股票流動相對壓力仍然存在。然而，正如我之前指出的那樣，隨著時間的推移，我們看到全球國際和新興市場領域出現了一些放緩。這些策略的淨流出量每季都在 20 億美元左右。我們新興市場策略中的資金流出部分被我之前提到的全球股票和收入的持續走強以及小型股的淨流入所抵消。雖然資產流動和我們的基本股權能力仍低於我們的長期預期，但市場成長有助於收入成長，導致本季淨收入與 2023 年第四季相比成長了 10%。

Our team continues to focus on driving high-quality Alpha, upgrading our talent bench, and continuing to strengthen our risk management tools. Regardless of client demand, our focus remains on improving investment performance and gaining market share in key fundamental equity categories in which we compete.

我們的團隊繼續專注於推動高品質的 Alpha、升級我們的人才團隊並繼續加強我們的風險管理工具。無論客戶需求如何，我們的重點仍然是提高投資績效和在我們競爭的關鍵基本股票類別中獲得市場份額。

Now moving on to slide 6, we provide an alternative aggregation of our AUM and flows to provide additional context for our business results. I've covered most of these key highlights underlying these charts, but I'll point out that the diversity of our assets and our flows across geography, channel, and investment style provide us the balance -- and to weather any market condition and our ability to meet a range of client needs, which is an important part of our ongoing positive organic flow growth story.

現在轉到投影片 6，我們提供了 AUM 和流量的另一種聚合，以便為我們的業務結果提供更多背景資訊。我已經介紹了這些圖表中的大部分關鍵亮點，但我想指出的是，我們的資產和跨地域、渠道和投資風格的流動多樣性為我們提供了平衡——並使我們能經受住任何市場條件和滿足一系列客戶需求的能力，這是我們持續積極的有機流量增長故事的重要組成部分。

Moving on to slide 7, which shows our overall investment performance relative to benchmarks and peers, as well as our performance and key capabilities, where information is readily comparable and more meaningful to drive results. Investment performance is key to winning and maintaining market share, despite overall market demand. Achieving first-quartile investment performance remains a top priority, and we're making progress on this front.

我們繼續看第 7 張投影片，它展示了我們相對於基準和同業的整體投資表現，以及我們的業績和關鍵能力，其中的資訊易於比較且更有意義以推動成果。儘管整體市場需求旺盛，但投資績效是贏得和維持市場份額的關鍵。實現第一四分位的投資績效仍然是我們的首要任務，我們在這方面正在取得進展。

Overall, nearly half of our funds are performing in the top quartile of peers across the one-, three-, and five-year time horizons. Further, two-thirds of our AUM is beating its respective benchmark over all measurement periods. We continue to have strong fixed income performance, with approximately 40% of our funds in the top quartile on a three- and five-year basis. We are acutely focused on improving fundamental equity performance, and we're making progress here too. We have continued to improve the percentage of AUM in the top quartile of peers across each timeline shown, with a third or more now hitting that target.

整體而言，我們的近一半基金在一年、三年和五年的時間範圍內表現均位居同業前列。此外，在所有測量期間內，我們的三分之二的 AUM 都超過了各自的基準。我們的固定收益投資持續保持強勁表現，約有 40% 的基金在三年和五年期內均位居前四分之一。我們高度重視提高基本股權表現，我們在這方面也取得了進展。我們持續提高每個時間線上同業前四分之一的 AUM 百分比，目前已有三分之一或更多的公司達到了這一目標。

With that, I'm going to turn the call over to Allison to discuss our financial results for the quarter, and I look forward to your questions.

接下來，我將把電話轉給艾莉森 (Allison) 討論我們本季的財務業績，我期待您的提問。

Thank you, Andrew, and good morning, everyone. I'll begin on slide 8, with our fourth quarter financial results. We continue to see strong growth in assets under management during the fourth quarter with total AUM at the end of the quarter at $1.85 trillion, $50 billion or 3% higher than last quarter end, and $261 billion or 16% higher than the end of 2023.

謝謝你，安德魯，大家早安。我將從第 8 張投影片開始介紹我們的第四季財務表現。我們繼續看到第四季資產管理規模強勁成長，本季末的總資產管理規模為 1.85 兆美元，比上一季末高出 500 億美元或 3%，比 2023 年底高出 2,610 億美元或 16%。

Average long-term assets under management were over $1.3 trillion, an increase of 4% over last quarter and 20% over the fourth quarter of last year. The increase in AUM was mainly driven by net long-term inflows, net inflows into our QQQ, ETF and net inflows in the money market funds. Unlike recent quarters, markets did not have a significant impact on AUM in the fourth quarter.

平均長期資產管理規模超過 1.3 兆美元，較上一季成長 4%，較去年第四季成長 20%。AUM 的成長主要得益於長期淨流入、QQQ 淨流入、ETF 淨流入、貨幣市場基金淨流入。與最近幾季不同，市場在第四季對 AUM 沒有產生重大影響。

Net long-term inflows drove a $26 billion increase in assets under management during the quarter, representing an organic growth rate of nearly 8%. As Andrew noted, net inflows and our ETF and index capabilities were nearly $30 billion. QQQ net inflows were $10 billion and money market fund inflows were strong at $25 billion.

長期淨流入推動本季管理資產增加 260 億美元，有機成長率接近 8%。正如安德魯所說，淨流入量和我們的 ETF 和指數能力接近 300 億美元。 QQ淨流入量為 100 億美元，貨幣市場基金流入量強勁，達 250 億美元。

Net revenue, adjusted operating income and adjusted operating margin all improved from the third quarter and showed substantial improvement from the fourth quarter of last year. I'll cover the drivers of that shortly.

淨營收、調整後營業收入、調整後營業利潤率均較第三季有所改善，較去年第四季大幅改善。我很快就會介紹一下其驅動因素。

Adjusted diluted earnings per share was $0.52 for the fourth quarter versus prior quarter EPS of $0.44. We continue to strengthen the balance sheet, ending the quarter in a net cash position with cash and cash equivalents exceeding debt by nearly $100 million, better than our goal of zero net debt. We also continued share buybacks, repurchasing $25 million during the quarter, and we intend to continue buying back on a regular basis going forward.

第四季調整後每股攤薄收益為 0.52 美元，上一季每股收益為 0.44 美元。我們繼續加強資產負債表，本季末處於淨現金狀況，現金和現金等價物超過債務近 1 億美元，優於我們零淨債務的目標。我們也繼續回購股票，本季回購了 2,500 萬美元，我們打算在未來繼續定期回購。

Moving to slide 9. As we stated in prior calls, secular shifts in client demand have altered our asset mix and net revenue yields as our broad set of capabilities has allowed us to capture evolving client product preferences. Client demand has led to continued diversification of our portfolio, a trend we've seen for a number of years now. As a result, concentration risk and higher-fee fundamental equities and multi-asset products has been reduced. The firm is increasingly better positioned to navigate various market cycles, events and shifting client demand. Consistent with prior quarters, current net revenue yield trends are included on the slide. The ranges by capability are representative of where the net revenue yield has ranged over the past five quarters, and we note the net revenue yield drivers and where in the range, the yields have trended more recently.

移至幻燈片 9。正如我們在先前的電話會議中所說，客戶需求的長期變化已經改變了我們的資產組合和淨收入收益率，因為我們廣泛的能力使我們能夠捕捉不斷變化的客戶產品偏好。客戶需求促使我們的投資組合不斷多樣化，這是我們多年來一直看到的趨勢。因此，集中度風險和費用較高的基本股票和多元資產產品已降低。該公司越來越有能力應對各種市場週期、事件和不斷變化的客戶需求。與前幾季一致，幻燈片涵蓋了當前淨收入收益率趨勢。按能力劃分的範圍代表了過去五個季度淨收入收益率的範圍，並且我們注意到淨收入收益率的驅動因素以及範圍內收益率的近期趨勢。

To provide context for the net revenue yield trend during the fourth quarter, our overall net revenue yield was 24.6 basis points. The exit net revenue yield was 24.1 basis points, 0.5 basis points lower due to continued mix shift during the quarter.

為了提供第四季度淨收入收益率趨勢的背景，我們的整體淨收入收益率為 24.6 個基點。退出淨收入收益率為 24.1 個基點，由於本季持續的組合轉變而下降了 0.5 個基點。

Turning to slide 10. Net revenue of $1.2 billion in the fourth quarter was $111 million higher than the fourth quarter of last year, an 11% increase and $53 million were 5% higher than the third quarter. Investment management fees were $123 million higher than last year and $29 million higher than the third quarter. The increases were driven by higher average AUM, partially offset by the AUM mix shift previously noted.

翻到第 10 張投影片。第四季淨營收12億美元，較去年第四季1.11億美元成長11%，較第三季5,300萬美元成長5%。投資管理費比去年同期高出1.23億美元，比第三季高出2,900萬美元。成長的主要原因是平均 AUM 增加，但被先前提到的 AUM 組合變化部分抵消。

Performance fees were $14 million higher than last year and $32 million higher than the third quarter, reflecting typical seasonality.

績效費用比去年同期高出 1,400 萬美元，比第三季高出 3,200 萬美元，反映了典型的季節性。

Operating expenses continued to be well managed. Total adjusted operating expenses in the fourth quarter were $767 million, a slight decrease of $4 million or less than 1% from the fourth quarter of last year. There was a slight increase of $11 million or less than 2% in adjusted operating expenses over the third quarter.

營運費用繼續得到良好的管理。第四季調整後總營業費用為 7.67 億美元，較去年同期小幅減少 400 萬美元，降幅不到 1%。調整後的營業費用較第三季小幅增加 1,100 萬美元，增幅不到 2%。

Compensation was $14 million higher than the fourth quarter of last year, which included $22 million of organizational change related expense. Higher compensation expense was driven mainly by higher revenue in 2024. Compensation expense was $15 million higher than the prior quarter and mainly driven by higher revenue, including compensation associated with seasonally higher performance fees.

薪資比去年第四季高出 1,400 萬美元，其中包括 2,200 萬美元的組織變革相關費用。薪酬支出增加主要由於 2024 年收入增加。薪資支出比上一季增加了 1500 萬美元，主要由於收入增加，包括與季節性更高績效費相關的薪酬。

G&A was lower on both the year-over-year and sequential quarter basis. G&A was $28 million lower than the fourth quarter of last year, mainly to lower professional related fees and an insurance reimbursement of $13 million in the fourth quarter of this year. G&A was $11 million lower compared to the third quarter, mainly due to the insurance reimbursement, partially offset by slightly higher professional related fees.

與去年同期和整個季度相比，G&A 費用均有所下降。G&A費用比去年第四季降低了2800萬美元，主要由於今年第四季專業相關費用降低以及1300萬美元的保險報銷。與第三季相比，一般及行政費用減少了 1,100 萬美元，主要由於保險報銷，但專業相關費用略有增加，部分抵消了這一影響。

Outlook platform implementation costs of $14 million were in line with our expectations in the fourth quarter and consistent with the $15 million incurred in the third quarter. We did move a small first wave of AUM on the Alpha platform in the fourth quarter. Fees paid on the assets transitioned in the first wave were nominal expense wise in the fourth quarter.

Outlook 平台實施成本為 1,400 萬美元，符合我們第四季的預期，與第三季的 1,500 萬美元一致。我們確實在第四季度在 Alpha 平台上轉移了第一波小規模的 AUM。在第四季度，第一波資產轉換所支付的費用只是名義費用。

As the implementation continues, we expect Alpha-related onetime implementation cost to be in the $10 million to $15 million range per quarter in 2025. Depending on the timing of when future waves are executed, which we currently expect will continue through 2026, the implementation costs will begin to fade as we approach full implementation of Alpha. Fees paid to State Street as we transition assets to Alpha will increase as future ways are executed. Under this scenario, the combination of implementation costs and total platform fees paid to third parties could peak late this year or during the first half of 2026.

隨著實施的持續，我們預計到 2025 年，與 Alpha 相關的一次性實施成本將達到每季 1,000 萬至 1,500 萬美元。根據未來浪潮的執行時間（我們目前預計該浪潮將持續到 2026 年），隨著我們接近 Alpha 的全面實施，實施成本將開始下降。當我們將資產轉移到 Alpha 時，支付給道富銀行的費用將隨著未來方式的實施而增加。在這種情況下，實施成本和支付給第三方的平台總費用總額可能會在今年年底或 2026 年上半年達到高峰。

Looking at 2025, we expect costs related to Alpha, which includes both the implementation costs and fees paid to platform providers to be $20 million to $25 million higher than 2024. We'll continue to update our progress and related costs as we move forward with the implementation.

展望 2025 年，我們預計與 Alpha 相關的成本（包括實施成本和支付給平台提供者的費用）將比 2024 年高出 2,000 萬至 2,500 萬美元。隨著實施的推進，我們將繼續更新我們的進展和相關成本。

Regarding operating expenses for 2025, we will continue our disciplined expense management. We expect a slight uptick in expenses, driven by the higher revenue levels that we are currently generating. If you assume flat markets from year-end '24, we would expect total operating expense to increase by approximately 1% over 2024. That includes the higher Alpha-related costs in 2025 that I noted.

關於 2025 年的營運費用，我們將繼續嚴格的費用管理。我們預計支出將略有上升，這得益於我們目前的收入水平較高。如果假設從 24 年底開始市場持平，我們預計 2024 年總營運費用將增加約 1%。其中包括我指出的 2025 年與 Alpha 相關的更高成本。

Back to the fourth quarter. Our quarter-over-quarter positive operating leverage was 330 basis points, driving a $41 million or a 12% increase in operating income and a 210 basis point improvement in our operating margin to 33.7%. The effective tax rate was 22.2% in the fourth quarter. We estimate our non-GAAP effective tax rate will be near 25%, the high end of our historic range for the first quarter of 2025, excluding any discrete tax items. The actual effective rate can vary due to the impact of nonrecurring items on pretax income and discrete tax items.

回到第四季。我們季度環比的正營業槓桿為 330 個基點，推動營業收入增加 4,100 萬美元或 12%，營業利潤率提高 210 個基點至 33.7%。第四季有效稅率為22.2%。我們估計，我們的非公認會計準則有效稅率將接近 25%，這是 2025 年第一季歷史範圍的高端（不包括任何單獨稅項）。實際有效稅率可能會因非經常性項目對稅前收入和單獨稅項的影響而有所不同。

I'll wrap up on slide 11. As I noted earlier, we continued to make progress on building balance sheet strength in the fourth quarter. We ended the quarter in a net cash position with cash and cash equivalents, exceeding debt by nearly $100 million, better than our goal of zero net debt. We ended the quarter with no draws on our credit facility. Our leverage ratios continue to improve, and we're now down to a leverage ratio excluding the preferred stock of 0.25 times, a significant improvement over the past several years.

我將在第 11 張投影片上結束演講。正如我之前提到的，我們在第四季度繼續在增強資產負債表實力方面取得進展。本季結束時，我們的現金和現金等價物處於淨現金狀態，超過債務近 1 億美元，比我們零淨債務的目標好。本季結束時，我們的信貸額度沒有提款。我們的槓桿率持續改善，現在不包括優先股的槓桿率已降至 0.25 倍，與過去幾年相比有了顯著改善。

We continued share buybacks in the fourth quarter, repurchasing $25 million or 1.4 million shares during this quarter. We intend to continue a regular share buyback program going forward, and we expect our total payout ratio, including common dividends and share buybacks to move closer to 60% in 2025, as we continually evaluate our capital return levels.

我們在第四季繼續回購股票，本季回購了價值 2,500 萬美元或 140 萬股股票。我們打算繼續實施定期的股票回購計劃，並預計到 2025 年，包括普通股股息和股票回購在內的總股息率將接近 60%，同時我們會不斷評估我們的資本回報水平。

To conclude, the resiliency and strength of our firm's net flows performance is evident again this quarter, and we continue to make progress on simplifying the organization and building a stronger balance sheet while continuing to invest in areas of growth. We remain committed to driving profitable growth, a high level financial performance, and enhancing the return of capital to shareholders.

總而言之，本季度我們公司淨流量表現的彈性和實力再次顯而易見，我們在簡化組織和建立更強勁的資產負債表方面繼續取得進展，同時繼續在成長領域進行投資。我們將繼續致力於推動獲利成長、高水準的財務表現並提高股東的資本回報。

With that, I'll ask the operator to open up the line to Q&A.

說完這些，我將請接線生開通問答專線。

(Operator Instructions) Dan Fannon, Jefferies.

（操作員指示）丹·範農（Dan Fannon），傑富瑞（Jefferies）。

I wanted to follow up on the outlook for expenses in 2025. The $20 million to $25 million increase of the Alpha versus '24, can you just remind us what '24 was?

我想追蹤 2025 年的支出前景。與 24 年相比，Alpha 的價格增加了 2000 萬美元到 2500 萬美元，您能提醒我們 24 年的情況嗎？

And then also, just given some of the seasonality of -- (technical difficulty)

此外，考慮到一些季節性因素--（技術難度）

Dan, you got totally jumbled for us there on the end. The one thing we heard was at Alpha and looking for what it was in 2024.

丹，最後你讓我們徹底糊塗了。我們在 Alpha 聽到的一件事就是尋找 2024 年的情況。

Yeah, so then maybe some sequential -- the sequential expense bills for the first quarter, given the seasonality of things like payroll.

是的，那麼考慮到工資等季節性因素，也許會出現一些連續的——第一季的連續費用帳單。

Okay. So let me address the Alpha in 2024 first. Alpha was probably just under $50 million for 2024. And so in comparing that to 2025, as I noted, we would expect it to be, in total, $20 million to $25 million higher than 2024. That's inclusive of all costs related to Alpha. And then the expense guidance for the full year, as I noted, would be about a 1% increase over 2024, assuming flat markets from the end of -- from 12/31. That includes all of the Alpha cost.

好的。因此，讓我先解決 2024 年的 Alpha 問題。到 2024 年，Alpha 的市值可能略低於 5,000 萬美元。因此，與 2025 年相比，正如我所指出的，我們預計總額將比 2024 年高出 2,000 萬至 2,500 萬美元。這包括與 Alpha 相關的所有費用。然後，正如我所指出的，假設從 12 月 31 日起市場持平，那麼全年支出預期將比 2024 年增加約 1%。其中包括全部 Alpha 成本。

In terms of the sequential quarter build, I would just say, as I noted, the implementation costs for the quarter are going to be in that, again, that $10 million to $15 million range. In terms of other expense line items, I would say there's always the typical seasonality in the first quarter as it relates to payroll taxes, which tend to run in the $15 million kind of context, $15 million to $20 million context. Of course, you've got seasonality in the fourth quarter with compensation related to the performance fees. Keep in mind, marketing tends to be seasonally higher in the fourth quarter. And I just don't expect a lot else to be very different, so I point to those seasonal items and then point you back to the full year guidance of 1%.

就連續季度建設而言，我只想說，正如我所指出的，本季的實施成本將再次在 1000 萬美元至 1500 萬美元的範圍內。就其他費用項目而言，我想說，第一季總是存在與工資稅相關的典型季節性，工資稅往往在 1500 萬美元、1500 萬美元到 2000 萬美元的範圍內。當然，第四季度存在與績效費相關的補償的季節性。請記住，第四季度的行銷活動往往會呈現季節性高峰。我只是不期望其他方面會有很大不同，因此我指出了那些季節性項目，然後將您引回到 1% 的全年指導水平。

Great. Thank you. And hopefully, I come in clear here for the second one, but wanted to follow up on capital management, and just given the improved liquidity position, how your M&A and inorganic thought processes evolve, given the stable and/or improving liquidity profile.

偉大的。謝謝。希望我能清楚地回答第二個問題，但我想跟進資本管理問題，鑑於流動性狀況的改善，在流動性狀況穩定和/或改善的情況下，您的併購和無機思維過程將如何發展。

Okay. Yes, got it. On the capital management, I would say our priorities continue to be the same, which is we remain focused primarily in investing in our own organic growth, which I think we're demonstrating that we've got a fair amount of firepower there. And investing in those capabilities is, in fact, demonstrating the organic growth that we're looking for. So that is, first and foremost, our focus, just given the diversified platform we have.

好的。是的，明白了。在資本管理方面，我想說我們的優先事項仍然是一樣的，那就是我們仍然主要專注於投資我們自己的有機成長，我認為這表明我們在那裡擁有相當大的火力。對這些能力的投資實際上體現了我們所尋求的有機成長。因此，考慮到我們擁有的多元化平台，這是我們首要關注的重點。

How that relates to our inorganic focus, I would say it's very consistent with a lot of the conversations we've had in the past. And our capabilities are fairly well built out across both the capability set, but also our regional diversification.

至於這與我們的無機焦點有何關係，我想說這與我們過去的許多對話非常一致。我們的能力在能力集和區域多樣化方面都相當完善。

The one area where we probably don't have the full set of capabilities would be on the private credit side. We continue to be very thoughtful there. It is -- we have some depth of private credit capabilities, but probably not the full suite we would like to have. Also, a very crowded and expensive space, as you know, right now. And so we remain focused on growing both organically while keeping our eyes open inorganically.

我們可能不具備全部能力的一個領域是私人信貸方面。我們將繼續深思熟慮。是的——我們擁有一定深度的私人信貸能力，但可能不是我們希望擁有的全部。而且如你所知，現在這個領域非常擁擠，而且成本昂貴。因此，我們將繼續專注於有機成長，同時對無機成長保持警惕。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Alex Blostein, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的亞歷克斯‧布洛斯坦 (Alex Blostein)。

Also another one on expenses for you, just to make sure I have that clear. So the Alpha implementation will run $10 million to $15 million per quarter. It will peak at some point of time at the end of '25, maybe early '26, at which point you will also start to have sort of the expenses that you'll start paying State Street ramp as well. So maybe help us understand kind of what are the run rate expenses you expect to pay State Street once all the assets migrated over, so which I guess will be at some point of time in 2026.

另外也要給您一份關於費用的信息，只是為了確保我清楚這一點。因此 Alpha 實施每季將耗資 1,000 萬至 1,500 萬美元。它會在 25 年底或 26 年初的某個時間點達到頂峰，那時你也會開始產生一些費用，你需要支付 State Street 的坡道費。因此，也許可以幫助我們了解一旦所有資產遷移完畢，您預計向道富銀行支付的營運費用是多少，我猜這將是在 2026 年的某個時間點。

And then ultimately, are there any legacy costs that you expect to fall off once Alpha is sort of fully implemented? Or is that kind of baked into your $10 million to $15 million guidance?

那麼最終，一旦 Alpha 完全實施，您是否預計會減少任何遺留成本？或者這已經包含在您 1000 萬到 1500 萬美元的指導金額中了嗎？

No. So let me kind of walk back through that again. So I just -- I'll try to piece this together. And I can't tell you, I can't answer the question of what are the fees we would be paying to State Street because, of course, that's contractual.

不。讓我再回顧一下這一點。所以我只是——我會嘗試把它們拼湊起來。我無法告訴您，我無法回答我們要向道富銀行支付多少費用的問題，因為這當然是合約規定的。

And so the way to think about it is this, implementation costs will continue to be $10 million to $15 million per quarter. That's consistent with what we've been running for the last number of quarters. If I look at the total cost of Alpha this year, which is both the implementation costs, which think of those as onetime, the construction cost, if you will, combined with fees paid to platform providers, which there are existing and that will be coming on.

所以，我們可以這樣想，實施成本將繼續維持在每季 1,000 萬至 1,500 萬美元。這與我們過去幾季的運行情況一致。如果我看今年 Alpha 的總成本，其中包括實施成本（可以認為是一次性的），建造成本（如果你願意的話）加上支付給平台提供者的費用（這些費用是現有的，並且將來還會增加）。

That's why we will be peaking as we are running parallel paths on a number of platforms. The combined cost of all of that for 2025 will be $20 million to $25 million higher than the cost than '24. So thinking about that baked into our expense run rate for '25, relative to '24. That is a piece of the overall expense guidance, which is inclusive of everything that we provided, which is an increase of 1% over last year.

這就是為什麼我們在多個平台上運行並行路徑時會達到頂峰。2025 年所有這些項目的總成本將比 2024 年高出 2,000 萬至 2,500 萬美元。因此，考慮一下這是否已計入我們25年相對於24年的費用運行率中。這是整體費用指導的一部分，其中包括我們提供的所有內容，比去年增加了 1%。

The costs that will start to come out, that will be not until we are fully transitioned with all waves. So as we noted, the waves they're going to continue through 2026, then we can begin to decommission systems. So the benefits we might see are too far out to guide to at this point. Does that help, Alex?

直到我們完全過渡到所有浪潮之後，成本才會開始顯現。正如我們所注意到的，這波浪潮將持續到 2026 年，然後我們就可以開始退役系統了。因此，我們可能看到的益處目前還無法指導。這有幫助嗎，亞歷克斯？

I got you. Yes. I was just kind of trying to get like once those costs fade out, like what is the net expense benefit we should expect, which sounds like some of that 10% to 15% will start to leave, but the ultimate benefit of that really won't show up until '27, if that -- if I hear you correctly?

我接到你了。是的。我只是想了解，一旦這些成本消失，我們應該預期淨費用收益是多少，這聽起來像是 10% 到 15% 中的一些將開始消失，但最終的收益實際上要到 27 年才會顯現，如果那樣的話 — — 如果我沒聽錯的話？

Correct. And you are correct. Once we are fully implemented, you will not have the implementation cost of $10 million to $15 million a quarter. Those are truly construction costs, if you want to think about it that way.

正確的。你是對的。一旦我們全面實施，您將不會再有每季 1000 萬到 1500 萬美元的實施成本。如果你願意這樣想的話，這些確實是建設成本。

Yes. Got you. Okay. And then my follow-up question, I didn't want to ask you guys around China. It sounds like things have been up there, you and I had a conversation about this later last quarter just in terms of the momentum you guys are seeing in the ground that's showing up in flows. So talk to us maybe a little bit about the pipeline that you're seeing in the products there and your expectations for flows over the next couple of quarters.

是的。明白了。好的。然後我的後續問題是，我不想問你們中國的情況。聽起來事情已經發生了變化，上個季度末你和我討論過這個問題，只是就你們看到的流量顯示的勢頭而言。那麼，請與我們稍微談談您在那裡看到的產品線以及您對未來幾季的流量預期。

Yes. So maybe I'll start and then Allison can pick up as well. We did -- as we said, we saw $2.5 billion or so of flows this quarter. Importantly, the launches we did and the focus in the market was on equity ETFs, which we're seeing more demand for equity markets through ETFs right now in China, and we're relatively early in building that out, and the market is relatively early as well.

是的。因此也許我先開始，然後艾莉森也可以接手。正如我們所說，本季我們看到了約 25 億美元的資金流入。重要的是，我們所推出的產品和市場重點是股票 ETF，我們目前看到中國透過 ETF 對股票市場的需求越來越大，而且我們在建構這一領域還相對較早，市場也處於相對較早的階段。

We're also seeing flows into what's called fixed income plus, which is more like a balanced strategy. And so demand has been picking up there as well. To remind everybody, our business there is pretty diverse and balanced. So we're about 30% equities, 30% fixed income, 20% in this fixed income plus, and 20% or so in money markets.

我們也看到資金流入所謂的固定收益加，這更像是一種平衡策略。因此那裡的需求也一直在回升。需要提醒大家的是，我們在那裡的業務相當多樣化和均衡。因此，我們的投資結構約為 30% 股票、30% 固定收益、20% 以上固定收益以及 20% 左右貨幣市場。

The stimulus that's been put in place and what we expect to be future stimulus throughout the balance of this year, is starting to raise confidence modestly. But I think the markets and the retail investors going to need to see more. But to be getting organic growth despite all of that, we feel is a pretty good accomplishment.

已經實施的刺激措施以及我們預計今年餘下時間將採取的刺激措施正開始略微提振信心。但我認為市場和散戶需要看到更多。但儘管如此，我們仍然能夠實現有機成長，我們認為這是一個相當不錯的成就。

Brennan Hawken, UBS.

瑞銀的布倫南‧霍肯 (Brennan Hawken)。

A couple just sort of clarification items on the expenses, sorry to dwell here. But the 1% increase, that's versus the $3.30 billion adjusted reported base. Just want to confirm that. And then the $10 million to $15 million that we should expect in 2025 those construction costs and then that's not expected to go into '26. I just wanted to confirm that.

一些關於費用的澄清事項，很抱歉在這裡說太多。但這 1% 的成長是相對於 33 億美元的調整後報告基數而言的。只是想確認一下。我們預計 2025 年的建造成本為 1,000 萬至 1,500 萬美元，而這筆費用預計不會花在 26 年。我只是想確認一下。

And Allison, I believe you noted a $22 million charge related to organizational change. Could you maybe give some color around what that is and what impact we could expect from that?

艾莉森，我相信你注意到了與組織變革相關的 2,200 萬美元費用。您能否解釋一下這是什麼以及我們能預期會產生什麼影響？

The $22 million organizational change was 2023. So that was in my year-over-year comment. So that's rearview mirror, no organizational change expenses noted in fourth quarter of 2024. The expense guidance of 1% over 2024, yes, that is relative to the fully reported $3.30 billion operating expense base for 2024, and that's assuming flat markets to 12/31. And then the implication cost of $10 million to $15 million a quarter. That guide is through 2025.

這項耗資 2,200 萬美元的組織變革將於 2023 年完成。這就是我的年度評論。這是後視鏡，2024 年第四季沒有註意到組織變革費用。2024 年的費用預期為 1%，是的，這是相對於 2024 年完整報告的 33 億美元營運費用基數而言的，並且假設到 12 月 31 日市場持平。這意味著每季的成本為 1000 萬到 1500 萬美元。該指南有效期至 2025 年。

I'm not prepared to speak to 2026 yet, but if we are still in the moving AUM over, there will be some implementation costs, depending on where we are on the waves and the continued build of Alpha. If it is possible, it could be higher, it could be lower than $10 million to $15 million, as we continue to move assets in waves. So but implementation costs will be a part of our expense base so long as we are moving assets over to Alpha until that transition is fully complete. Does that help, Brennan?

我還沒準備好談論2026年，但是如果我們仍然處於轉移AUM的狀態，那麼就會有一些實施成本，這取決於我們所處的浪潮位置和Alpha的持續建設。如果可能的話，這個數字可能會更高，也可能低於 1000 萬美元到 1500 萬美元，因為我們會繼續分批轉移資產。所以，只要我們將資產轉移到 Alpha，直到過渡完全完成，實施成本就會成為我們費用基礎的一部分。這有幫助嗎，布倫南？

It does. Thanks for clarifying on the organizational change. I guess I didn't hear that correctly. One of the things you guys talked -- I'd like to shift gears on Alpha, and not talk about the actual expense blocking and tackling. You've spoken in the past how you expect that this migration is going to enhance your operational effectiveness across the organization.

是的。感謝您澄清組織變革這一事實。我猜我沒聽清楚。你們談到的一件事——我想換個話題談談 Alpha，而不是談論實際的費用阻止和解決。您過去曾說過，您希望這次遷移能夠提高整個組織的營運效率。

So -- and it sounds like you're beginning to migrate cohorts over it might be too early, but like what has been the experience so far? What are your expectations for some of that operational -- increased operational effectiveness? And how should we expect that to manifest itself as you continue to progress through this rather substantial change in the organization?

所以 - 聽起來你開始遷移隊列，可能為時過早，但迄今為止的經驗如何？您對提高營運效率有何期望？當您繼續在組織中推動這項相當大的變革時，我們應該如何期待這一點能夠體現呢？

Brennan, it's Andrew. Thanks for the question. Look, I'll say the assets that we brought on board in the fourth quarter were relatively small. So it's too early to give a full answer, but the experience has been good from those equity investors and the team that's come across -- or the platform that's come across.

布倫南，我是安德魯。謝謝你的提問。我想說的是，我們在第四季引入的資產相對較少。因此，現在給出完整的答案還為時過早，但從這些股權投資者和所接觸的團隊——或者所接觸的平台來看，他們的經驗是良好的。

In terms of the wider simplification efforts and the advantages we'll get over time, I'd sort of tie it back to the corporate strategy and the execution we've been on, which is to bring the investment platform closer and closer together. And so as we scale through that platform as we have teams managing assets across market as we shift into different product lines, a simple singular platform that helps us decommission all sorts of homegrown systems and legacy third-party systems just makes that process, makes us much quicker and executing that process and makes our investment portfolio managers and teams much more efficient at the way that they're able to execute. So I think we're ready to get this further moved onto the platform so we can continue to have it enhance and drive the strategy and drive the operating leverage, frankly, that we've been seeing in the business.

就更廣泛的簡化努力和我們隨著時間的推移將獲得的優勢而言，我將其與我們一直以來的企業策略和執行聯繫起來，這就是讓投資平台越來越緊密地結合在一起。隨著我們透過該平台擴大規模，隨著我們轉向不同的產品線，我們擁有管理跨市場資產的團隊，一個簡單的單一平台可以幫助我們停用各種自主研發的系統和遺留的第三方系統，從而使該流程更加快捷，並使我們投資組合經理和團隊能夠更加高效地執行。因此，我認為我們已準備好將其進一步轉移到平台上，以便我們能夠繼續增強和推動策略，並推動我們在業務中看到的營運槓桿。

Bill Katz, TD Cowen.

比爾·卡茨（Bill Katz），TD Cowen 公司。

Okay. I'm going to spend more time on Alpha, and I again, apologize, but the guidance here, I think, is very constructive versus where the Street is sitting today. But I think the bigger question that I have, I think investors have is, what does this look like in the end state? And I think Alex was trying to get you there.

好的。我將在 Alpha 上花費更多時間，我再次表示歉意，但我認為，與華爾街今天的狀況相比，這裡的指導非常有建設性。但我認為我和投資人所面臨的更大問題是，最終情況會是如何？我認為亞歷克斯正試圖帶你去那裡。

So what percentage of your assets would you anticipate being migrated over in 2025? And then as we get into some kind of quote-unquote normalized world where everything is migrated over and implementation costs phase out, how do we think about or how do we model to the onboarding costs on a go-forward basis? That's my first question.

那麼您預計 2025 年將有多少比例的資產轉移？然後，當我們進入某種所謂的規範化的世界，一切都被遷移過來，實施成本逐漸消失，我們如何考慮或如何在未來的基礎上模擬入職成本？這是我的第一個問題。

So I mean I'll start with -- we're not going to provide the detail of what percentage in '25 versus '26, as we continue to work with our partners on really thinking through how to build out these waves in a way that creates the least amount of disruption and really helps drive the efficiency of the business, and it's really just the preparedness there.

所以我的意思是，我首先要說的是——我們不會提供 25 年與 26 年百分比的具體細節，因為我們會繼續與合作夥伴一起真正思考如何以最少的干擾來應對這些浪潮，並真正幫助提高業務效率，這實際上只是做好準備。

So I'll probably hold on how the waves are constructed and what percentage we anticipate moving in '25 just yet, but we will update you quarter-to-quarter as we are moving that on. As I noted, we expect to continue moving assets over through '25 and into '26. And so that end state on the other side, we will give you more guidance as we continue to work through what that looks like. We do anticipate it as the vast majority, it's not almost all of our assets, but ultimately move on to the platform.

因此，我可能會暫時擱置波浪的構造方式以及我們預計在 25 年移動的百分比，但隨著我們繼續前進，我們將逐季度向您更新資訊。正如我所說，我們預計將在25年至26年繼續轉移資產。至於最終狀態，我們將在繼續研究其發展方向的過程中為您提供更多指導。我們確實預計，絕大多數（而不是我們所有的資產）最終都會轉移到平台上。

So it has a number of system implications behind it as we look to streamline from a number of systems to a single operating system there. And that end state does have benefits. It has benefits in terms of elimination of software costs as well as benefits from an organizational perspective, and so there are implications related to teams as well.

因此，當我們希望從多個系統精簡為單一作業系統時，它背後有許多系統意義。而且這種最終狀態確實有好處。它在消除軟體成本方面有好處，從組織角度來看也有好處，因此對團隊也有影響。

So there are benefits on the other side. They just -- as we are really focused on 2025 at the moment, they're a little further out than we're prepared to give the full guidance to given the business continues to evolve in every other aspect.

所以從另一方面來說，也是有好處的。他們只是—因為我們目前真正關注的是 2025 年，所以他們比我們準備提供的完整指導要遠一些，因為業務在其他各個方面都在不斷發展。

Bill, the only thing I'd add is just to add extra clarity, all -- pretty much all of our public market assets will be ultimately on the Alpha platform. This wave construct of using it's helpful because as we learn from each wave, we apply to the next wave and get those incremental benefits, hopefully, in speed, but also in working through the complexity of it.

比爾，我唯一要補充的只是為了更清楚地說明，幾乎我們所有的公開市場資產最終都會在 Alpha 平台上。使用這種波浪結構是有幫助的，因為當我們從每一波浪潮中學習時，我們可以應用到下一波浪潮中並獲得那些增量效益，希望在速度上，同時也能解決它的複雜性。

Okay. And then maybe I'm just sticking with you for a question. I think some of the themes out in terms of the opportunity set going forward are more on the alternative side.

好的。然後我可能只是想問你一個問題。我認為，就未來機會而言，一些主題更集中在替代方面。

So I was wondering if you could click a layer deeper and speak to your strategy to grow Private Markets, you gave a little bit of a detail on your retail democratization, maybe where you can grow there on INCREF, maybe even leveraging on the insurance side.

所以我想知道您是否可以更深入地談談您發展私人市場的策略，您可以詳細介紹零售民主化，也許您可以在 INCREF 上發展，甚至可以在保險方面利用這些策略。

And then it's related to that, if there's not a lot of deals to be had, how should we be thinking about the payout rate, 60% seems relatively low given that you've enhanced the balance sheet and you have pretty good diversification and scale.

然後與此相關的是，如果沒有很多交易可做，我們應該如何考慮派息率？

Yes. Let me start. So on the Private Markets and Alternative build-out, as we noted, we do think there's a lot of organic opportunity here. And it's not just in taking our private real estate and Alternative Credit strategies and private credit strategies to the wealth management market.

是的。讓我開始吧。因此，正如我們所指出的，在私募市場和另類投資建設方面，我們確實認為這裡有很多有機機會。這不僅僅是將我們的私人房地產、替代信貸策略和私人信貸策略帶入財富管理市場。

We also see opportunities to enhance the institutional markets around the world. But wealth management should have the greatest growth rate, and we pointed out a few places where we're starting to see that take hold. The real estate debt strategy that we launched, INCREF, is a flagship for us both because there's increasing demand in that space, and there's less supply. And so we were pleased to see that fund double in size the last few quarters and now be at around $2.5 billion.

我們也看到了增強全球機構市場的機會。但財富管理應該擁有最高的成長率，我們指出了幾個我們開始看到這種成長勢頭的地方。我們推出的房地產債務策略 INCREF 對我們來說都是旗艦產品，因為該領域的需求不斷增加，而供應卻減少。因此，我們很高興看到該基金規模在過去幾季翻了一番，目前約為 25 億美元。

You'll also start to see us build out around the Alternative Credit space into those wealth management channels as well. I think one of the things that we're finding as we build out in the wealth space, is that people want diversification as well. And so we're going to continue to look for strategies that might be multi-asset in nature.

您還將看到我們在替代信貸領域拓展到財富管理管道。我認為，我們在財富領域不斷拓展的過程中發現的一件事是，人們也希望實現財富多樣化。因此，我們將繼續尋找本質上可能是多資產的策略。

And then on the inorganic side, in addition to what Allison shared before about our capital priorities and she can expand on the payout in a moment. Think about our inorganic strategy, as focusing on partnerships as well. And so there's lots of conversations out there ways that we can find partners to work with. We've been successful with joint ventures and partnerships like we've had out in Asia. And so those conversations are continuing to be ones that we'll look at that can enhance the product line, can enhance our distribution channels or access to capital from alternative sources.

然後，在無機方面，除了艾莉森之前分享的我們的資本優先事項之外，她稍後還可以詳細說明支出。想想我們的無機策略，同樣注重合作關係。因此，我們可以透過多種方式來尋找合作夥伴。我們在亞洲的合資和合作中都取得了成功。因此，我們將繼續研究這些對話，以增強產品線，增強我們的分銷管道或從其他來源獲取資本。

And as it relates to the payout ratio, there's a couple of things that point to as we just think about what's the appropriate payout ratio is, first, as I noted, our focus remains really investing in our own capabilities. And so as we think about launching new capabilities, particularly in the Private Market space or along the partnership route, as Andrew noted, those require cash. And we invest our own capital in order to get these things off the ground. And so we want to preserve or cash capital for those organic growth opportunities that we have.

就派息率而言，當我們思考什麼是合適的派息率時，有幾件事需要注意，首先，正如我所指出的，我們的重點仍然是投資於我們自身的能力。因此，當我們考慮推出新功能時，特別是在私人市場領域或沿著合作夥伴關係，正如安德魯所說，這些都需要現金。我們投入了自己的資本來使這些專案順利進行。因此，我們希望保留或兌現資本，以抓住我們擁有的有機成長機會。

The second aspect on my mind is we do have a debt maturity coming up a year from now, next January, another $500 million note. I don't know yet whether or not we will pay that off or refinance it. It kind of depends on the set of opportunities we have before us from an organic growth perspective and just where the markets are in the rate environment. But we want to preserve flexibility to completely pay that down if that's the best opportunity we have. And so as we think about the payout ratio for this year, those are a couple of things in our mind.

我想到的第二個面向是，一年後，也就是明年 1 月，我們確實有一筆債務即將到期，另一筆 5 億美元的債務。我還不知道我們是否會還清這筆錢或進行再融資。這在某種程度上取決於我們從有機成長角度面臨的機會以及市場所處的利率環境。但如果這是我們擁有的最好機會，我們希望保留靈活性來完全償還債務。因此，當我們考慮今年的派息率時，我們會考慮以下幾點。

I mean the choices and flexibility that we built that Allison was just pointing out with our goal in '24 to be back in the market buying back stock, which we did. But having that flexibility gives us a lot more choices here to deploy against our strategy.

我的意思是，我們建立的選擇和靈活性，艾莉森剛才指出，我們的目標是在24年重返市場回購股票，而我們做到了。但擁有這種彈性可以讓我們根據自己的策略做出更多的選擇。

Glenn Schorr, Evercore.

格倫·肖爾（Glenn Schorr），Evercore。

Okay. So in the fourth quarter, we had the insurance reimbursement. But besides that, the margin was still up markets, big inflows, down fee rate, controlled expenses. So my question is, I'm hoping for better than flat assets this year. But what's your thoughts around the margin knowing what we know -- what you just said about the 1% expense growth knowing that you're still inflowing nicely, but the fee rate does have some compression. How are you thinking about the margin in '25?

好的。因此在第四季度，我們獲得了保險報銷。但除此之外，利潤率仍在上漲，市場流入量大，費率下降，費用受到控制。所以我的問題是，我希望今年的資產表現比持平更好。但是，根據我們所知道的情況，您對利潤率有什麼看法——您剛才提到了 1% 的費用增長，雖然您仍然有不錯的收入，但是費率確實有一些壓縮。您如何看待 25 年的利潤？

We're hoping for better than flat markets, too. And obviously, we build our plan with flat markets because we think it's prudent, but this is certainly a business where we're all counting on and a tenant upon growth in markets. And I think we're in a pretty diversified set of markets. And in any given year, we see we've got some markets working for us and some are working against us, but net-net, we're hoping for also a positive year.

我們也希望市場表現比平淡更好。顯然，我們是根據平穩的市場制定計劃的，因為我們認為這是謹慎的，但這無疑是一項我們都依賴的業務，也是市場成長的承租人。我認為我們處在一個相當多元化的市場。在任何一年中，我們都會看到一些市場對我們有利，而一些市場則對我們不利，但總體而言，我們希望這也是積極的一年。

Independent of that, I'm bullish on our margin, and I'm bullish for a couple of reasons. The number 1 thing we're managing to, I mean we noted expenses, I would say 1% expense growth year-over-year, inclusive of all of these costs associated with Alpha, I feel really good about. And it's really a testament to some pretty disciplined expense management going on to make sure we make room for this really important strategic focus we have and continuing to execute against Alpha.

除此之外，我對我們的利潤率很看好，原因有以下幾點。我們正在管理的第一件事，我的意思是我們注意到了費用，我會說費用同比增長 1%，其中包括與 Alpha 相關的所有這些成本，我對此感到非常滿意。這確實證明了一些相當嚴謹的費用管理，以確保我們為這個真正重要的策略重點留出空間，並繼續執行 Alpha 計劃。

But on the top line, what we're managing to is flows and flows across all of our investment capabilities and really thinking about that organic revenue growth. And I think if we can continue executing well against our focus there, we're going to see operating margin expansion in 2025.

但從總體上看，我們正在管理的是所有投資能力的流動，並真正考慮有機收入的成長。我認為，如果我們能夠繼續很好地執行我們的重點，我們將在 2025 年看到營業利潤率擴大。

In particular, I mean, we -- we're giving you more and more color, and we hope it's helpful to really get to that organic fee rate trajectory. And I think you can see over the last couple of quarters where we've had very strong organic fee rate growth and investment capabilities like fixed income and ETFs and Private Markets. We're really at about a breakeven place for '24 and APAC managed and we're very optimistic that we can do a lot better than that in 2025. The biggest opportunity we have, no question, is narrowing the outflows in Fundamental Equities. That's been the headwind as it relates to that organic fee rate growth.

具體來說，我的意思是，我們——我們正在給你越來越多的顏色，我們希望它有助於真正了解有機費率軌跡。我認為您可以看到，在過去幾個季度中，我們的有機費率成長非常強勁，固定收益、ETF 和私募市場等投資能力也非常強勁。我們在 2024 年和 APAC 的經營狀況實際上已經達到收支平衡，我們非常樂觀地認為，到 2025 年，我們可以做得更好。毫無疑問，我們面臨的最大機會是縮小基本股票的資金流出。這與有機費率成長有關，這是一個阻力。

And so our focus and our investment performance in Fundamental Equities and really defending our book of business there and really focused on the pockets of growth and the sales there. That's the number 1 thing we can do to expand revenue independent of any market changes, and that's going to really get us to that operating margin expansion trajectory that we think we're on.

因此，我們的重點和投資表現在基本股票上，真正捍衛我們在那裡的業務，並真正關注那裡的成長點和銷售。這是我們能夠做的最重要的事情，以便不受任何市場變化的影響而擴大收入，這將真正使我們達到我們認為的營業利潤率擴張軌跡。

Well, that's a perfect lead into the follow-up I had was -- and maybe, a, how do you defend Fundamental Equities besides just, hey, everybody put up great performance. But my question is on what do you -- how are you thinking about the active ETF lineup. Your ETF business has been growing. How do you think about what to transition to have an active tag along product, if you will? And can that be part of the solution?

好吧，這完美地引出了我的後續問題——也許，除了說「嘿，每個人都表現得很出色」之外，你如何捍衛基本面股票？但我的問題是，您如何看待主動式 ETF 陣容。您的 ETF 業務一直在成長。如果可以的話，您認為應該如何轉變才能擁有主動的附加產品？這能成為解決方案的一部分嗎？

Yes. I mean driving success for Fundamental Equities, in particular, number 1 is delivering investment quality. So that's going to be the number 1 core of focus, and that includes all the things that you'd expect from us on talent and risk, et cetera. Continuing to differentiate the product line and how we quote-unquote wrap equity to go to market is going to be an important way that we both grow and defend. Also the way that we deliver through our sales and client service efforts. So it is continuing to be blocking and tackling.

是的。我的意思是推動基本股票的成功，特別是，最重要的是提供投資品質。因此，這將是我們關注的首要核心，其中包括您對我們在人才和風險等方面所期望的所有事項。繼續區分產品線以及我們如何包裝股權以進入市場將是我們成長和捍衛的重要方式。這也是我們透過銷售和客戶服務努力交付成果的方式。因此，它會繼續進行阻止和解決。

As it relates to active ETFs, just the starting point for us just for everyone has a baseline. We have about $10 billion in active ETFs, but we have another $20 billion or so of ETFs that are more passively oriented, but involve our more fundamental or quantitative investment teams. And I think both of those areas are places where you're going to see us continue to grow, as the ETF vehicle will continue to be a vehicle choice.

就主動型 ETF 而言，我們的起點和每個人的起點都有一個基準。我們擁有約 100 億美元的主動式 ETF，但另有約 200 億美元的 ETF 更以被動型為主，但涉及我們更基本面或量化的投資團隊。我認為，這兩個領域都將成為我們繼續成長的領域，因為 ETF 工具將繼續成為一種工具選擇。

And we have the ETF platform. We know how to operationalize that and to grow it at scale, and we have excellent active investment capabilities. So we've been launching some of those through the course of last year. We'll continue to look for opportunities this year. But number 1 thing is having good, high-quality investment results because that's going to really drive the success, whether it's packaged in a mutual fund or an ETF. But regardless, we should be able to win with the scale that we have.

我們有ETF平台。我們知道如何實現這一點並大規模發展，而且我們擁有出色的主動投資能力。因此我們在去年就推出了其中一些產品。今年我們將繼續尋找機會。但最重要的是獲得良好、高品質的投資結果，因為這才是真正推動成功的關鍵，無論是打包在共同基金還是 ETF 中。但無論如何，憑藉我們現有的規模，我們應該能夠取得勝利。

Ben Budish, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的本‧布迪什 (Ben Budish)。

Just a high-level question around fee rates. It looked like the ranges for most of your categories were either kind of lower at the midpoint or narrowed. If you could kind of comment on what's been going on there? Is it sort of ongoing mix shift within each category? Is it sort of competitive forces?

這只是一個有關費率的高級問題。看起來大多數類別的範圍要么在中點處較低，要么縮小了。您能對那裡發生的事情做些評論嗎？每個類別中是否存在持續的混合轉變？這是一種競爭力量嗎？

And then I'm particularly curious in China, there's some headlines last quarter around some ongoing pressures to kind of lower ETF fee rates. So any color on what's going on there would be helpful.

然後我特別對中國感到好奇，上個季度有一些關於持續降低 ETF 費率的壓力的新聞。因此，了解那裡發生的任何情況都會有所幫助。

Sure. I'll take that. I would say it is primarily ongoing mix shift within the various categories that you're seeing there. If you think about the ETFs in particular, and that's one where you've seen that fee rate that range narrow a bit and trend towards the low end.

當然。我接受。我想說的是，這主要是您所看到的各個類別中持續進行的混合轉變。如果你特別考慮一下 ETF，你會發現費率範圍有所縮小，並且趨向於低端。

We continue to see really strong demand for capabilities like the QQQM and the S&P 500 Equal Weight, those are going to be in the kind of low -- sorry, mid- to high single digits and really start to impact that fee rate down relative to perhaps the commodity strategy, which we just haven't seen a stronger demand for. So you've got mix shift going on within those capabilities.

我們繼續看到對 QQQM 和標準普爾 500 等權重等功能的強勁需求，這些功能將處於低 - 抱歉，中高個位數，並且確實開始影響相對於商品策略的費率下降，我們只是還沒有看到更強勁的需求。因此，您可以在這些功能範圍內進行混合轉換。

At the same time, on APAC managed, I'd say, that rate came down over the last five quarters, six quarters because of the regulatory mandated cuts that went into effect in 2023. Those were fully washed through in 2024 at the ETF pressure. I think our set of capabilities are well within the regulatory mandate. So we don't see that pressure really impacting our set of our product lineup there.

同時，我想說，在亞太地區，由於 2023 年生效的監管強制削減，這一比率在過去五個季度、六個季度有所下降。在 ETF 壓力下，這些將在 2024 年被徹底衝破。我認為我們的能力完全符合監管要求。因此，我們認為這種壓力不會真正影響我們的產品陣容。

So within that, I don't -- I wouldn't say any of those trends are sort of permanent in nature. It really is a function of the demand. And at the same time, we're seeing really strong demand for things like BKLN, which will be on the higher side. And so it's pretty demand-driven and not any sort of secular pressure.

因此，我不會說其中任何一種趨勢在本質上是永久的。它實際上是需求的函數。同時，我們看到 BKLN 等產品的需求非常強勁，價格將會更高。因此，它主要是需求驅動的，而不是任何長期壓力。

Understood. And maybe a follow-up, sticking on the ETF side. Andrew, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about, I think you mentioned $2.5 billion for a finished pension insurer that sounded fairly interesting. I'm curious what the pipeline is like for those sorts of opportunities, you sort of custom indexing within liquid ETFs. How do you see that opportunities had evolving?

明白了。或許還有後續行動，堅持 ETF 方面。安德魯，我想知道您是否可以再多談一點，我記得您提到過 25 億美元收購一家成熟的養老保險公司，這聽起來相當有趣。我很好奇這些機會的管道是什麼樣的，你在流動性 ETF 中進行自訂索引。您如何看待機會的演變？

Yes. I mean something like the one we had last quarter is going to be more episodic. I wouldn't say that there's a huge pipeline behind it. But there were two of them, I think, last year that were similar. So the custom index is that's something that we see a continued demand for. And it might not be just for an institution, it could be for a wealth platform or it could be us customizing an index with one of the index providers to come up with a specific need that we see in the marketplace. So I see custom indexing demand growing for over time. These big chunky institutional type capabilities more episodic.

是的。我的意思是，像我們上個季度所經歷的事情將會更加具有情節性。我不會說這背後有一個巨大的管道。但我認為，去年有兩個類似的情況。因此，我們看到對定制指數的持續需求。它可能不僅針對某個機構，也可能針對某個財富平台，或者可能是我們與某個指數提供者一起客製化一個指數，以滿足我們在市場上看到的特定需求。因此，我看到定制索引的需求隨著時間的推移而增長。這些大型、笨重的機構類型的能力更具偶然性。

Patrick Davitt, Autonomous Research.

戴維特 (Patrick Davitt)，自主研究。

There are signs that ETF adoption in Europe is really picking up steam, while some even starting to call the long anticipated quote-unquote catch-up with the US has really started. Firstly, do the trends you're seeing suggest that catch-up is in progress? And secondly, given your legacy book of much higher fee active funds in Europe, do you see that shift as a net positive or a net negative for Invesco?

有跡象表明，歐洲對 ETF 的採用確實正在加速，而有些人甚至開始稱，期待已久的對美國的追趕已經真正開始。首先，您所看到的趨勢是否表示追趕正在進行中？其次，考慮到您在歐洲的原有基金費用要高得多，您認為這種轉變對景順來說是有利的還是不利的？

Yes. You're right to point out the growth in EMEA and some of the demand pickup there. We do think it's an early stage secular trend that we've been waiting for to come in Europe as we've been in that market for some time, both with our ETF range and with our broader institutional wealth management teams on ground. And so we do expect that to continue to pick up. We're, I think, over $125 billion or so in ETF assets out in that region.

是的。您正確地指出了歐洲、中東和非洲地區的成長以及那裡的部分需求回升。我們確實認為這是我們一直在等待的早期長期趨勢，因為我們已經進入歐洲市場有一段時間了，我們擁有 ETF 系列和更廣泛的機構財富管理團隊。因此我們確實預期這一趨勢將會繼續回升。我認為，我們在該地區的 ETF 資產超過 1,250 億美元左右。

With regard to where demand will come from, the private banks are quite strong in that market, and it's been largely an institutional market. We see that it could continue to pick up on the more retail side. I'd say our lineup ranges, it's equity heavy, but we have a strong fixed income lineup that we built and incubated over many years, and I think we'll see both sides of that equation and clearly bringing active portfolios into EMEA in ETF wrappers is something we expect to happen just like it's occurring in the US. So we're cautiously optimistic about EMEA ETF growth.

關於需求來自哪裡，私人銀行在該市場相當強大，而且它基本上是一個機構市場。我們認為，它在零售方面可能會繼續回升。我想說我們的產品陣容範圍很廣，它以股票為主，但我們擁有強大的固定收益產品陣容，這是我們多年來建立和孵化的，我認為我們會看到這個等式的兩邊，顯然，將主動投資組合以 ETF 包裝的形式引入 EMEA 是我們預計會發生的事情，就像在美國發生的那樣。因此，我們對 EMEA ETF 的成長持謹慎樂觀的態度。

And I would just say as it relates to the fee rate, I mean, that would be a driver of some of the mix you're seeing in terms of the fee rates and the ranges being on the low end or kind of trending to the lower side on the ETF fee rate because you do see -- they are slightly lower fee rates in Europe relative to the US lineup.

我只想說，就費率而言，這可能是您所看到的費率組合的一個驅動因素，而且費率範圍處於低端，或者趨向於 ETF 費率的較低水平，因為您確實看到——與美國相比，歐洲的費率略低。

But again, importantly, I'd go back to our focus is on organic fee rate, organic revenue generation and the growth we're seeing there and the demand there is extremely positive towards overall organic revenue growth. And so it's a net positive in our view.

但同樣，重要的是，我將回到我們的重點上，即有機費率、有機收入創造以及我們所看到的增長以及對整體有機收入增長極為積極的需求。因此，我們認為這是一件好事。

And just ETFs in general, running an efficient platform, one that uses technology, one that uses our operational prowess and uses our size and scale, whether we're bringing products in the US or Europe or out in Asia, we have the platform that we can create operating leverage from.

就一般的 ETF 而言，運行一個高效的平台，一個利用技術的平台，一個利用我們的營運實力和規模的平台，無論我們將產品推向美國、歐洲還是亞洲，我們都擁有可以從中創造營運槓桿的平台。

Got it. And then as a quick follow-up, it seems like you started to ahead that you've been working with MassMutual on options for the preferred. Any updates on that front, as I imagine that the now higher for longer mentality could conceivably make the paper less attractive to them?

知道了。然後作為一個快速的跟進，看起來你已經開始與 MassMutual 合作尋找優先股的選擇權了。這方面有什麼更新嗎，因為我想現在更高的長期心態可能會使這篇論文對他們的吸引力降低？

No updates. It is the topic of ongoing conversation on both sides. It's not just the rate for them. It is -- again, that was -- that was the financing mechanism for the acquisition of Oppenheimer, which they have a tax basis in, so there are tax capital and rating considerations on their side, not simply sort of rates relative to market rates. So it is a topic of ongoing conversation as we look at -- are there perhaps ways to make it maybe more flexible in the future, but no update.

沒有更新。這是雙方正在討論的話題。對他們來說這不僅僅是利率的問題。再說一次，那是收購奧本海默的融資機制，他們有稅基，因此他們有稅收資本和評級的考慮，而不僅僅是相對於市場利率的利率。因此，這是我們正在討論的話題——是否有辦法在未來使其更加靈活，但沒有更新。

Ken Worthington, J.P. Morgan.

摩根大通的肯‧沃辛頓。

I'd love to dig into the institutional business a bit more broadly. Where is Invesco having success in building the pipeline and winning new business? I know you called out Alternatives, but other areas as well? And how does the business that you're winning compared to the business you're losing?

我很樂意更廣泛地涉足機構業務。景順在建立通路和贏得新業務方面取得了哪些成功？我知道您提到了替代方案，但是其他領域也一樣嗎？與您失去的業務相比，您贏得的業務如何？

Maybe I'll just start at the highest level of kind of how the business is doing. I'd say in pipeline, which I always caution is not the best indication because the pipeline is only as good as what we enter into a sales management system. But we do obviously look at it as an indicator.

或許我會從最高層級開始了解業務的運作。我想說的是，在管道中，我總是警告這不是最好的跡象，因為管道的好壞取決於我們進入銷售管理系統的內容。但我們顯然將其視為一個指標。

It continues to expand actually and improving coming into 2025 and in terms of both absolute size and the quality of the capabilities that are -- we're really looking at being probable in 2025. It really spans all three regions and all investment capabilities. And you do see the barbelling impact there, and there are continued growth and kind of ETF and indexing capabilities but also continued growth on the Private Market side. And the real estate pipeline remains strong there with a fair amount of committed capital that is yet to be deployed.

實際上，到 2025 年，它將繼續擴大，並且將不斷改善，無論是絕對規模還是能力質量，我們都確實希望在 2025 年實現這一目標。它確實涵蓋了所有三個地區和所有投資能力。您確實看到了那裡的巨大影響，並且 ETF 和指數化能力持續增長，而且私人市場方面也在持續增長。那裡的房地產管道依然強勁，有相當數量的承諾資本尚未部署。

So the fee rates there look good, too. They continue to be on the high end of our range, which is usually that mid-20s to mid-30s range, and we continue to see the pipeline to be on the high end of that range. So I'd say, overall attractive characteristics and maybe Andrew can add a little more color in terms of what we're seeing from just kind of a client and regional perspective.

所以那裡的費率看起來也不錯。它們繼續處於我們範圍的高端，通常是20年代中期到30年代中期的範圍，我們繼續看到管道處於該範圍的高端。所以我想說，總體來說，特點很吸引人，也許安德魯可以根據我們從客戶和區域角度看到的情況，增添一些色彩。

Yes. To add to what Allison was saying, fixed income is the other area where institutional demand and flows have been pretty good. And the strength of our fixed income platform that I described, we think we'll be in a place in addition to the Alternative and Private Market side, where we should -- we're focused on picking up momentum in fixed income. The other place I'd say is select into equities institutions are reallocating their portfolios. And we're seeing increased demand for Asian equities, global equities in that space as well, but it's very, very competitive.

是的。除了艾利森所說的內容之外，固定收益是機構需求和資金流動相當良好的另一個領域。而且，就我所描述的我們的固定收益平台的優勢而言，我們認為，除了另類和私人市場方面，我們還將處於一個重要的地位，我們應該專注於獲得固定收益方面的發展勢頭。我想說的另一個地方是選擇進入股票市場的機構正在重新分配他們的投資組合。我們看到亞洲股票和全球股票的需求不斷增加，但競爭也非常激烈。

Great. And then the other side of the equation, the business you're losing, what does that look like?

偉大的。那麼等式的另一邊，你正在失去的業務是什麼樣的呢？

I wouldn't say -- if I look at what the outflows were in the fourth quarter, a lot of it we noted, there were some outflows in our balanced risk strategies in GAA, and that's just a strategy that's been out of favor. We also saw out for some stable value in the quarter, and that's really because of just the rates and the arbitrage there in terms of where money market rates were relative to stable value. So those are maybe what I would point to from a trend perspective, and I think that last point being temporary or cyclical in nature.

我不會說——如果我看看第四季度的資金流出情況，我們注意到很多，在我們的 GAA 平衡風險策略中有一些資金流出，這只是一種不受歡迎的策略。我們也看到本季的價值趨於穩定，這實際上是因為貨幣市場利率相對於穩定價值的利率和套利。因此，這些也許就是我從趨勢角度指出的，我認為最後一點是暫時的或週期性的。

We're the leading, if not one of the leading stable value providers. So when that market comes back in demand, we should do just fine.

我們是領先的穩定價值提供商，即使不是領先的之一。因此，當市場需求恢復時，我們的表現就很好了。

Gregory Ketron Head of Investor Relations & Treasury Yes, Cedric, we have time for one more question.

葛瑞格里‧凱特倫 (Gregory Ketron) 投資者關係和財務主管 是的，塞德里克，我們還有時間再問一個問題。

Brian Bedell, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的布萊恩‧貝德爾 (Brian Bedell)。

Most of my questions have been asked and answered, but maybe to one just back on the operating margin outlook. Maybe Allison, just your view on the comp to revenue ratio that's within your 1% guide under flat markets. And then, let's say, if equity markets are up 10% on a linear basis throughout the year. How would that impact your comp to revenue ratio.

我的大部分問題都已經得到解答了，但也許還有一個關於營業利潤率前景的問題。也許艾莉森，只是你對平穩市場下 1% 指引範圍內的同店收入比率的看法。然後，假設股票市場全年以線性方式上漲 10%。這會對你的營業收入比率產生什麼影響？

Yes. I would say our comp to revenue expectations are -- really, we think about it independent of where markets are, and we really look at it relative to revenue. Historically, we have been closer to the 40% to 42% kind of context. You saw us in the past year at just over 43%. I don't know that in 2025, it is very revenue dependent. If we had really strong revenue, could we get back down to 42%? Possibly. Without that, we may be looking at something closer to 43%. Our longer-term objective is to bring that back to that 38% to 42% range. But we have historically operated.

是的。我想說的是，我們的收入預期是——實際上，我們的思考方式與市場狀況無關，而是與收入相關地看待它。從歷史上看，我們的情況更接近 40% 到 42% 的情況。去年，我們的成長速度剛超過 43%。我不知道到 2025 年它是否非常依賴收入。如果我們的收入真的很高，我們能回到 42% 嗎？有可能。如果沒有這個數字，我們可能會看到更接近 43% 的數字。我們的長期目標是將這一比例恢復到 38% 至 42% 的範圍。但我們歷史上確實如此。

And I will point out when we think about total compensation and in the past years ago, we didn't always have things like severance expense and organizational change expense in there because we don't have TIR, it is a fully loaded P&L, and that has driven it a bit higher than that 42% to 43% context. And I think that's still a reasonable expectation for '25.

我要指出的是，當我們考慮總薪酬時，在過去幾年裡，我們並不總是把遣散費和組織變革費用等考慮進去，因為我們沒有 TIR，它是一個滿載的損益表，這使得它比 42% 到 43% 的背景略高。我認為這對25年來說仍然是一個合理的預期。

Great. That's helpful. And then just lastly, just to come back to the active ETFs, and I thank Andrew for your comments on that prior question. Maybe more specifically for active equity ETFs, if you can talk about the -- your view on cloning active, like current active mutual fund strategies. Obviously, the ones that you think are successful and have and would have demand for either a clone or something that was very similar to those strategies within the ETFs?

偉大的。這很有幫助。最後，回到主動型 ETF 的話題，感謝安德魯對先前問題的評論。也許更具體地針對主動型股票 ETF，如果您可以談談——您對克隆主動型股票 ETF 的看法，例如當前主動共同基金策略。顯然，您認為成功的策略需要克隆版或與 ETF 中的策略非常相似的東西嗎？

And I guess, is the only pushback either on fee pressure, from a cannibalization perspective? Or are you seeing maybe potential pushback from the distribution channels that prefer -- that may prefer the mutual funds, in terms of the sales practice.

我想，從蠶食的角度來看，唯一的阻力是否來自於費用壓力？或者，就銷售實務而言，您是否看到了可能來自偏好共同基金的通路的潛在阻力。

Yes. I mean there's many paths to where active can further end up in ETF, and you mentioned a few of them. Some of them could be conversions. Some of them could be people doing cloning. The other is potential ETF share class on mutual fund, which there's regulatory discussions going on in the marketplace. So I think all of those avenues will continue to be ones that we look at to move forward.

是的。我的意思是，主動投資可以進一步進入 ETF 的途徑有很多，您提到了其中的幾種。其中一些可能是轉換。其中一些可能是從事克隆的人。另一個是共同基金中潛在的 ETF 份額類別，市場正在進行監管討論。因此我認為我們將繼續考慮所有這些途徑以推動其發展。

I can't speak for every distribution of wealth platform, but my experience, our experience is they want high-quality products and they want it in multiple vehicles and wrappers. Being able to clone things and moving it over sounds nice and elegant, but it's not always the simplest way to do it. And it's an avenue we'll look at, but it's not the core path I think we'll be on.

我不能代表每一個財富分配平台發言，但我的經驗是，他們想要高品質的產品，並且希望它有多種載體和包裝。能夠克隆事物並將其移動聽起來很不錯並且很優雅，但這並不總是最簡單的方法。這是我們會考慮的途徑，但我認為這不是我們的核心路徑。

Okay. Mr. Schlossberg, back to you.

好的。施洛斯伯格先生，回到您面前。

Yes. Thank you, operator. And in closing, I just want to say we're very well positioned to help clients navigate the impact of evolving market dynamics and subsequent changes to their portfolio. As market sentiment improves and client convictions continue to strengthen, this should translate to even greater scale, performance and improved profitability for Invesco as we discussed today.

是的。謝謝您，接線生。最後，我只想說，我們完全有能力幫助客戶應對不斷變化的市場動態及其投資組合隨之發生的變化的影響。正如我們今天所討論的，隨著市場情緒好轉和客戶信念不斷增強，這將轉化為景順的規模、績效和獲利能力的進一步提升。

Given all the work we have done to strengthen our ability to anticipate, understand, and meet evolving client needs, I am very excited for the future of Invesco. Again, I want to thank all of my colleagues at Invesco for their continued hard work in '24. And as we turn into 2025, I'm proud of our collaboration and our focus on our clients. I want to thank everyone for joining our call today.

考慮到我們為增強預測、理解和滿足不斷變化的客戶需求的能力所做的所有工作，我對景順的未來感到非常興奮。再次，我要感謝景順的所有同事在2024年的持續努力。當我們進入 2025 年時，我為我們的合作和對客戶的關注感到自豪。我要感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。

Please continue to reach out to our Investor Relations team for any additional questions, and we appreciate your ongoing interest in Invesco and look forward to speaking with all of you again soon.

如有任何其他問題，請繼續聯繫我們的投資者關係團隊，我們感謝您對 Invesco 的持續關注，並期待很快再次與大家交談。

Thank you. And that concludes today's conference. You may all disconnect at this time.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束。此時各位都可以斷開連線。