Intevac Inc (IVAC) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon to everyone on today's call, especially our veterans. Thank you for joining us today to discuss Intevac's financial results for the third quarter of 2024, which ended on September 28. In addition to discussing the company's results we will discuss our outlook looking forward.

祝今天電話會議中的各位下午好，特別是我們的退伍軍人。感謝您今天加入我們討論 Intevac 截至 9 月 28 日的 2024 年第三季的財務表現。除了討論公司的業績，我們還將討論我們的未來展望。

Joining me on today's call are Nigel Hunton, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Cameron McAulay, Chief Financial Officer. Nigel will begin with an overview of our business and outlook, followed by Cameron's review of our financial results for the third quarter and additional details regarding our guidance before turning the call over to Q&A.

參加今天電話會議的還有總裁兼執行長 Nigel Hunton；以及財務長 Cameron McAulay。奈傑爾將首先概述我們的業務和前景，隨後卡梅倫將回顧我們第三季度的財務業績以及有關我們指引的更多細節，然後將電話轉入問答環節。

I'd like to remind everyone that today's conference call contains certain forward-looking statements, including, but not limited to, statements regarding financial results for the company's most recently completed fiscal quarter, which remains subject to adjustment in connection with the preparation of our Form 10-Q as well as comments regarding future events and projections about the future financial performance to Intevac.

我想提醒大家，今天的電話會議包含某些前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於有關公司最近完成的財政季度的財務業績的陳述，這些陳述仍會根據我們編制 10-Q 表的情況進行調整，以及有關未來事件的評論和對 Intevac 未來財務業績的預測。

These forward-looking statements are based upon our current expectations, and actual results could differ materially as a result of various risks and uncertainties relating to these comments and other risk factors discussed in documents filed by us with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on Form 10-Q. The contents of this November 11 call include time-sensitive forward-looking statements that represent our projections as of today. We undertake no obligation to update the forward-looking statements made during this conference call.

這些前瞻性陳述是基於我們目前的預期，而實際結果可能因與這些評論有關的各種風險和不確定性以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件（包括我們的 10-K 表年度報告和 10-Q 表季度報告）中討論的其他風險因素而存在重大差異。11 月 11 日電話會議的內容包括時間敏感的前瞻性陳述，代表我們截至今天的預測。我們不承擔更新本次電話會議中前瞻性陳述的義務。

I will now turn the call over to Nigel.

現在我將電話轉給奈傑爾。

Thanks, Claire, and good afternoon to all of you on today's call. Our Q3 results demonstrate many positive developments for Intevac's business, including a strengthening of the HDD industry, upside in HDD upgrade demand, and strong gross margin performance for the underlying business. This resulted in a better bottom line and a strengthening of our cash position as compared to Q2 and a more positive view of the HDD business and its financial performance going forward. In addition, we are pleased to report the resolution of a customer's inventory obligation. Approximately $15 million of the $28.5 million of revenue reported for Q3 is related to these inventory obligations.

謝謝，克萊爾，祝今天電話會議的各位嘉賓下午好。我們的第三季業績顯示，Intevac 業務取得了許多積極的發展，包括 HDD 行業的增強、HDD 升級需求的上升以及基礎業務的強勁毛利率表現。與第二季相比，這帶來了更好的盈利和更強的現金狀況，並對 HDD 業務及其未來的財務表現有了更積極的看法。此外，我們很高興地報告客戶的庫存義務已解決。第三季報告的 2,850 萬美元收入中約有 1,500 萬美元與這些庫存義務有關。

The $15 million of inventory-related revenue was largely pass-through, but did include a small amount of gross profit to cover our expenses, procuring and storing the inventory. With the reported gross margin of 25%, this profit, along with certain other inventory adjustments, negatively impacted our gross margin by approximately 20 percentage points, while a positive impact on earnings per share was $0.04.

1500 萬美元的庫存相關收入大部分是轉嫁收入，但確實包括少量毛利以支付我們的費用、採購和儲存庫存。報告的毛利率為 25%，該利潤連同某些其他庫存調整對我們的毛利率產生了約 20 個百分點的負面影響，而對每股收益產生了 0.04 美元的積極影響。

Absent this inventory-related revenue, our Q3 revenues indicate continued strong demand for HDD technology upgrades, which exceeded the high end of our forecast. We believe cloud data center demand trends are continuing to drive growing demand for our underlying core HDD business.

除了與庫存相關的收入外，我們的第三季收入表明對 HDD 技術升級的需求持續強勁，超過了我們預測的高端。我們相信，雲端資料中心的需求趨勢將繼續推動我們核心 HDD 業務的需求不斷增長。

Unfortunately, a less positive development since quarter end is the conclusion of the qualification process for our first-ever TRIO shipment, which was delivered in April through a cover glass finisher in Asia. Over the past several months, the TRIO has demonstrated positive results through ongoing endurance testing in the field. And while the tool showed promise, the qualification concluded without the expected purchase order.

不幸的是，自本季度末以來的一個不太積極的進展是，我們首批 TRIO 貨物的資格認證過程已結束，該批貨物於 4 月通過亞洲的一家蓋玻片加工商交付。在過去的幾個月中，TRIO透過現場持續的耐力測試展示了積極的成果。儘管該工具顯示出良好的前景，但資格審查最終並未獲得預期的採購訂單。

At the end of the day, the TRIO, as compelling as it was, was unable to decisively demonstrate material advantages to displace the sizable installed capacity of existing coating solutions. And as such, we missed the market opportunity this next consumer device product cycle.

最終，TRIO雖然很有說服力，但卻無法確定地展現其材料優勢，無法取代現有塗層解決方案的龐大安裝容量。因此，我們錯過了下一個消費性設備產品週期的市場機會。

Given that this has impacted the expected TRIO opportunity and taking into account today the strength of forecast with our HDD customers, our focus for the TRIO has turned to rapidly monetizing our inventory investments. We believe the most advantageous path forward to achieving this objective is to continue supporting evaluations at multiple prospects for R&D work as well as polymer applications. However, to be very clear, we are no longer going to allocate any material resources to support evaluations with revenue potential that extends beyond the next 12 months.

鑑於這已經影響了預期的 TRIO 機會，並且考慮到今天我們 HDD 客戶的預測強度，我們對 TRIO 的重點已經轉向快速將庫存投資貨幣化。我們相信，實現這一目標最有利的途徑是繼續支持對研發工作以及聚合物應用的多個前景的評估。然而，需要明確的是，我們將不再分配任何物質資源來支持具有超過未來 12 個月的收入潛力的評估。

The improving HDD industry dynamics support an increasingly strong financial forecast for Intevac, and our critical resources will be allocated entirely to our opportunities in the HDD sector, thus providing the most immediate and assured return on our investment. We have, therefore, ceased further development of the TRIO platform, and this will increase bottom line profitability through reduced TRIO engineering costs.

HDD 產業情勢的改善支持了 Intevac 日益強勁的財務預測，我們的關鍵資源將全部分配給 HDD 領域的機會，從而為我們的投資提供最直接和最有保證的回報。因此，我們停止了對 TRIO 平台的進一步開發，這將透過降低 TRIO 工程成本來提高底線獲利能力。

We will retain a small technology group to pursue partnerships that can leverage our compelling glass coating IP and patent portfolio into additional applications such as advanced panel level semiconductor packaging.

我們將保留一個小型技術團隊來尋求合作夥伴關係，以便將我們引人注目的玻璃塗層智慧財產權和專利組合應用到其他應用領域，例如先進的面板級半導體封裝。

While the TRIO efforts of recent months have concluded in a disappointing fashion, we continue to believe in the value residing in our material science expertise and IP. And our efforts in 2025 will be on monetizing the investments we've already made while assessing partnerships and collaborations that can enable additional growth opportunities for our technology without requiring further investments by Intevac.

儘管最近幾個月的 TRIO 努力以令人失望的方式結束，但我們仍然相信我們的材料科學專業知識和智慧財產權的價值。2025 年，我們的努力將集中在將已經進行的投資貨幣化，同時評估合作夥伴關係和合作關係，以便為我們的技術提供額外的成長機會，而無需 Intevac 進一步投資。

This is because we are firmly committed to maintaining the strength of the balance sheet and preserving our strong cash position. As we assess the immediate opportunities ahead of us, we have likewise evaluated our cost structure and have made the appropriate decisions to align our resources with the strongest areas of potential growth, which is why we're also announcing today the restructuring of the company, including a 19% headcount reduction worldwide and consolidating our resources to our growing HDD business.

這是因為我們堅定地致力於維持資產負債表的強勁並維持強勁的現金狀況。在評估眼前機會的同時，我們也評估了我們的成本結構，並做出了適當的決定，將我們的資源與最有潛在成長潛力的領域結合起來，這也是我們今天宣佈公司重組的原因，包括在全球範圍內裁員 19%，並將我們的資源整合到我們不斷增長的 HDD 業務中。

Our core HDD business remains strong, and the outlook continues to improve. In August of 2022 when our backlog was its highest level in recent history, we had the visibility for around $200 million of HDD revenues spanning the four-year period between 2022 and 2025. In spite of the subsequent system cancellations, today, we are firmly on track to achieve its original target through our technology-enabling upgrade business.

我們的核心 HDD 業務依然強勁，前景持續改善。2022 年 8 月，我們的積壓訂單達到了近代歷史上的最高水平，我們預計 2022 年至 2025 年四年期間的 HDD 收入將達到約 2 億美元。儘管隨後系統被取消，但今天，我們仍透過技術升級業務堅定地朝著實現其原定目標的方向前進。

Even more importantly, the further strengthening of the financial outlook for the HDD sector give us confidence in significant additional revenue potential between 2026 and 2028 based on the business climate that we currently see. This continued strong revenue momentum reflects not only the sustainability of record levels of upgrade revenues but also new 200 Lean orders, which are, once again, on our radar screen, not necessarily for 2025 but certainly under consideration for 2026 or 2027.

更重要的是，HDD 產業財務前景的進​​一步增強使我們根據目前的商業環境對 2026 年至 2028 年期間的大幅額外收入潛力充滿信心。持續強勁的收入動能不僅反映了創紀錄的升級收入水平的可持續性，也反映了 200 個新的 Lean 訂單，這些訂單再次進入我們的視線，不一定是在 2025 年，但肯定會在 2026 年或 2027 年考慮。

This positive outlook for our HDD business has numerous fundamental drivers. Recently, an initial recovery in traditional server demand led to additional upside with an overall strengthening environment in hard drive and media demand. The most significant growth driver remains continued strong cloud demand strength which we believe is driven in part by the rapidly growing AI industry, which, for the third quarter, led to industry upside in mass capacity nearline drives within an increasingly favorable pricing and supply landscape.

我們的 HDD 業務的積極前景有眾多基本驅動因素。最近，傳統伺服器需求的初步復甦引發了額外的上行空間，硬碟和媒體需求的整體環境也隨之增強。最重要的成長動力仍然是持續強勁的雲端需求，我們認為這在一定程度上受到快速成長的人工智慧產業的推動，在第三季度，在日益有利的定價和供應環境下，人工智慧產業帶動大容量近線硬碟產業上漲。

HDDs continue to demonstrate significant advantages in data centers, the cost per bit advantage of about 6x and a capital efficiency benefit of approximately 9x compared to enterprise class SSDs. The aerial density improvements being achieved at this time are the most significant advancements in over a decade, and these have been enabled by our tool upgrades specifically HAMR.

HDD 在資料中心持續展現出顯著的優勢，與企業級 SSD 相比，其每位元成本優勢約為 6 倍，資本效率優勢約為 9 倍。此時實現的空中密度改進是十多年來最重大的進步，這是透過我們的工具升級（特別是 HAMR）來實現的。

While a HAMR upgrade cycle remains in its early stages, with another three or four years ahead, the next vector for HDD upgrades is driven by additional performance advancements that will enable increasingly higher capacity drives. We're already engaged with our customers in supporting these additional future advancements, which underpins the continued 200 Lean technology upgrade path through the end of the decade.

雖然 HAMR 升級週期仍處於早期階段，還需要三到四年的時間，但 HDD 升級的下一個方向是由額外的性能進步驅動，這將使驅動器的容量越來越大。我們已經與客戶合作，支持這些未來的進一步進步，這為 200 個精實技術在 2020 年前繼續升級奠定了基礎。

This increasing visibility for long-term strength for our HDD upgrade business, again, provides further support to our decision to focus the company's resources on the revenue opportunity supporting the HDD industry with Intevac playing a critical role within HDD technology road map as it proceeds to develop increasingly higher capacity drives.

我們的 HDD 升級業務的長期實力日益清晰，再次為我們決定將公司資源集中在支持 HDD 行業的收入機會上提供了進一步的支持，而 Intevac 在 HDD 技術路線圖中扮演著關鍵角色，因為它將繼續開發越來越大容量的驅動器。

With the HDD technology road map requiring close partnership with our customers in deploying upgrade technology through at least the end of this decade and, at the same time, over the last five quarters, we have observed from industry analysts the media capacity utilization has recovered from a low of under 40%, now approximately 70%, which means that we can also start thinking about planning new systems being required within the next few years.

由於 HDD 技術路線圖要求我們與客戶密切合作，至少在本世紀末部署升級技術，同時，在過去五個季度中，我們從行業分析師那裡觀察到，媒體容量利用率已從 40% 以下的低點恢復，現在約為 70%，這意味著我們也可以開始考慮規劃未來幾年所需的新系統。

Turning to the near-term outlook for our HDD business. The upside in demand witnessed this year has likely boosted our HDD expectations for both 2024 and 2025. Our forecast for total HDD revenues this year has improved once again to the $46 million to $48 million range. This is excluding the inventory pass-through. This forecast has improved incrementally every quarter of the year and importantly, it provides us also with a strong base of business from our operations in 2025.

談談我們 HDD 業務的近期前景。今年需求的上升可能提升了我們對 2024 年和 2025 年的 HDD 預期。我們對今年 HDD 總收入的預測再次提高到 4,600 萬美元至 4,800 萬美元之間。這還不包括庫存轉嫁。這項預測每年每個季度都在逐步改善，重要的是，它為我們 2025 年的營運奠定了堅實的業務基礎。

Further upside towards a $50 million revenue level and above will be driven by the acceleration of upgrade activities by multiple media manufacturers. We believe $50 million is the HDD revenue baseline ahead for 2025 as we expect to play an integral role in every major upgrade initiative. We are already seeing increased demand and accelerated time lines from additional HDD customers upgrading to HAMR.

多家媒體製造商加速升級活動將推動收入進一步上升至 5,000 萬美元及以上。我們相信 5,000 萬美元是 2025 年 HDD 收入基準，因為我們希望在每項重大升級計畫中發揮不可或缺的作用。我們已經看到更多 HDD 客戶升級到 HAMR 的需求不斷增加且時間表不斷加快。

Importantly, for Intevac and the decisions being made today to increase our return on investment with the most assured and immediate business opportunities, the strengthening HDD revenue baseline, in combination with our restructuring and the corresponding improvements to our cost structure, are enabling a revised P&L forecast, which is also expected to be cash flow neutral for the year.

重要的是，對於 Intevac 而言，我們今天做出的決定將透過最有保證和最直接的商業機會來提高投資回報率，而不斷加強的 HDD 收入基線，加上我們的重組和相應的成本結構改進，將使我們能夠修改損益預測，預計今年的現金流也將保持中性。

Before we turn the call over to Cameron, I'm delighted to welcome Ryan Vardeman to our Board effective today. Ryan is a principal and co-founder of Palogic Value Fund and one of our largest investors. Ryan brings not only an investor perspective, but extensive corporate strategy, operating and financial experience. He also has an [aging] background and prior Board experience with Bsquare where he was the Board Chairman in 2023. We very much look forward to his contributions to our Board.

在我們將電話轉給卡梅倫之前，我很高興歡迎瑞安瓦德曼加入我們的董事會，從今天起生效。Ryan 是 Palogic Value Fund 的負責人兼共同創辦人，也是我們最大的投資者之一。Ryan 不僅帶來了投資者的視角，也帶來了豐富的企業策略、營運和財務經驗。他還擁有 [老化] 背景和 Bsquare 董事會任職經歷，並於 2023 年擔任 Bsquare 董事會主席。我們非常期待他為我們董事會做出貢獻。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Cameron.

說完這些，我將把電話轉給卡梅倫。

Thank you, Nigel. Turning first to the income statement. Third-quarter revenues totaled $28.5 million, well above our guidance range of $10.5 million to $12 million. Majority of the subside represents $15 million of largely passed through revenue resulting from the required accounting treatment for the resolution of a customer's obligation regarding last year's (inaudible) revenue component, revenues still came in above the high end of the range due to incrementally strong HDD technology upgrade demand during Q3.

謝謝你，奈傑爾。首先來看損益表。第三季總營收為 2,850 萬美元，遠高於我們預期的 1,050 萬美元至 1,200 萬美元範圍。大部分補貼代表了 1500 萬美元的大部分轉嫁收入，這筆收入是由於解決客戶關於去年（聽不清楚）收入部分的義務所需的會計處理而產生的，由於第三季度 HDD 技術升級需求逐漸強勁，收入仍然高於該範圍的高端。

Q3 gross margin was 24.8%. The inventory revenues included a small amount of gross profit to cover the operating expenses associated with procuring and storing the inventory related to the order. And the impact of this profit, along with certain other inventory adjustments, collectively impacted gross margin by approximately 20 percentage points.

第三季毛利率為24.8%。庫存收入包括少量毛利，用於支付與採購和儲存訂單相關庫存相關的營運費用。該利潤的影響以及其他某些庫存調整共同影響了毛利率約 20 個百分點。

The strength of upgrade demand in Q3 likewise drove strong gross margin performance for the underlying business of approximately 45%, above the high end (inaudible). Operating expenses remained stable at $8.8 million. Following our recent restructuring, we expect consulting OpEx run rate to be in the range of $7 million to $7.2 million by the first quarter of 2025. Net other income and expense was $500,000. More of our cash moved to higher interest rate investments, interest income increased to $800,000 in Q3.

第三季升級需求強勁，同樣推動基礎業務毛利率強勁成長，達到約 45%，高於高端水平（聽不清楚）。營運費用保持穩定，為 880 萬美元。在我們最近的重組之後，我們預計到 2025 年第一季諮詢營運支出運行率將在 700 萬美元至 720 萬美元之間。其他淨收入和支出為500,000美元。我們將更多現金轉移到更高利率的投資，第三季的利息收入增加到 80 萬美元。

However, this income was partially offset by unfavorable foreign exchange. Resulting net loss was $0.08 per share. The net EPS results for the underlying business were likewise favorable to our earlier expectations.

然而，這筆收入被不利的外匯因素部分抵消。由此產生的淨虧損為每股 0.08 美元。基礎業務的淨每股收益結果同樣符合我們先前的預期。

Moving now to the balance sheet. We ended the quarter with cash and investments, including restricted cash of $72.1 million, equivalent to $2.67 per share based on 27 million shares at quarter end. The net increase in cash over Q2 was nearly $1.7 million, reflecting positive cash flow from operations enabled by our cash flow neutral P&L as well as strong collection of receivables during the quarter.

現在轉到資產負債表。我們在本季結束時擁有現金和投資，包括 7,210 萬美元的受限現金，按季末 2,700 萬股計算，相當於每股 2.67 美元。第二季的現金淨增加額接近 170 萬美元，反映出本季我們的現金流量中性損益表以及強勁的應收帳款回收所帶來的正經營現金流。

We see CapEx was $400,000. Noncash expenses for Q3 included $1 million for stock-based compensation, $500,000 for depreciation and amortization and $800,000 in deferred tax.

我們看到資本支出為40萬美元。第三季的非現金支出包括 100 萬美元的股票薪資、50 萬美元的折舊和攤提以及 80 萬美元的遞延稅。

Now I'll provide further details regarding our outlook. For the fourth quarter, we are projecting revenues to be in the range of $9 million to $10.5 million. We expect fourth-quarter gross margins to be in the 30% to 32% range, reflecting the expected mix of upgrades and factory absorption levels during the quarter.

現在我將提供有關我們展望的更多細節。我們預計第四季的營收將在 900 萬美元至 1,050 萬美元之間。我們預計第四季度的毛利率將在 30% 至 32% 之間，這反映了本季預期的升級和工廠吸收水準。

Q4 operating expenses are expected to be in the range of $8.4 million to $8.6 million. This range includes approximately $900,000 of cash restructuring costs in the quarter.

第四季營運費用預計在 840 萬美元至 860 萬美元之間。該範圍包括本季約 90 萬美元的現金重組成本。

We expect interest income of approximately $700,000 in Q4 and GAAP tax expense of about $400,000, most of which will be noncash. We are projecting our net loss in the range of $0.19 to $0.21 per share based on 27 million shares outstanding.

我們預計第四季的利息收入約為 70 萬美元，GAAP 稅費約為 40 萬美元，其中大部分為非現金。根據 2,700 萬股流通股，我們預期淨虧損在每股 0.19 美元至 0.21 美元之間。

As we look ahead to fiscal 2025, our strategic three-year plan and forecast for the next fiscal year is currently being concluded. We expect our growing base of HDD business to deliver a revenue baseline of $50 million which, after the restructuring, will support cash flow neutral to cash flow positive results. We believe this is achievable through a combination of factors: gross margins of at least 40%, the reduced OpEx run rate as a result of (inaudible), and the income generated by our investments.

展望2025財年，我們的策略三年計畫和下一財年的預測目前正在製定中。我們預計不斷成長的 HDD 業務基礎將帶來 5,000 萬美元的基準收入，重組後，這將支持現金流中性到正現金流的結果。我們相信，這可以透過多種因素實現：至少 40% 的毛利率、（聽不清楚）導致的營運支出運作率降低，以及我們的投資產生的收入。

This completes the formal part of our presentation. Operator, we are ready for questions.

我們演示的正式部分到此結束。接線員，我們已經準備好回答問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Peter Wright, PartnerCap Securities.

（操作員指示） Peter Wright，PartnerCap Securities。

I've got a couple of questions. So firstly, Nigel, I guess, when looking at the '22 to '25 cycle, you had some pretty good insight into calling that at about $200 million, and we're now looking at kind of the next cycle of '26 to '28, three-year cycle instead of a four-year cycle. Any comfort in kind of guiding what you think the cycle looks like? And what the unit count of 200 Leans would look like in that assumption?

我有幾個問題。首先，奈傑爾，我想，當你回顧 22 年至 25 年的周期時，你會非常清楚地知道這個數字約為 2 億美元，而我們現在正在回顧 26 年至 28 年的下一個週期，即三年周期，而不是四年周期。您能為我提供一些關於您認為這個週期是什麼樣的指導嗎？那麼在這個假設下，200 個 Lean 的單位數量應該是多少呢？

Thank you, Peter. That's the first question. As I said in the prepared remarks, we feel that this next period has the opportunity to be as strong as that four-year cycle, giving you a guidance of a similar level of revenues over that three-year period. That really is absolutely underpinned by upgrades. But the upgrade business is going to stay strong.

謝謝你，彼得。這是第一個問題。正如我在準備好的演講中所說，我們認為下一個時期有機會與四年周期一樣強勁，為您提供三年期間類似收入水平的指導。這確實絕對受到升級的支援。但升級業務仍將保持強勁。

We believe we're playing a key part in that industry transformation. And as we said, as we see utilization improving and we see the continued growth of demand over that period, we believe that will be a couple or a few, I think we said on previous calls, of 200 Leans likely in that 2026, 2027period.

我們相信，我們在這項產業轉型中發揮關鍵作用。正如我們所說的，隨著利用率的提高以及需求的持續增長，我們相信在 2026 年、2027 年期間可能會有 200 輛 Lean。

So the majority of that business will still be very much continuing this upgrade cycle that we've seen maintaining the strength for Intevac, and that will continue into the future.

因此，大部分業務仍將繼續這個升級週期，我們已經看到這項升級週期保持了 Intevac 的強勁實力，而這種勢頭將持續到未來。

And do you -- can you guide on when you think the installed base of 200 Leans will be HAMR upgraded? Is that largely complete in the '26 through '28 cycle? Is that the underlying assumption?

您能否介紹一下何時將 200 台 Lean 的安裝基座進行 HAMR 升級？從 26 年到 28 年的周期內這基本上完成了嗎？這是潛在的假設嗎？

No. It's -- the timeline for that is probably at least three to four years, which is good, it's going to maintain that strength of multiple upgrades each year over the next sort of three to four years. Beyond that, I think there'll be further upgrades. I think there'll be upgrades beyond that, which is good as technology and advancements keep continuing.

不。這個時間表可能至少需要三到四年，這很好，它將在未來三到四年內保持每年多次升級的實力。除此之外，我認為還會有進一步的升級。我認為除此之外還會有升級，這是好事，因為技術和進步會持續持續下去。

And on the $7 million to $7.2 million OpEx guide, that is a guide for where you think it's going to average out and in 2025? Did I catch that right?

在 700 萬美元到 720 萬美元的營運支出指導價位上，您認為這是 2025 年平均值的指導價嗎？我理解得對嗎？

Yes, that's right. The $8.4 million to $8.6 million this quarter. And then once the kind of OpEx will level out, Peter, kind of $7 million to $7.2 million pretty much from the start of 2025, that's right.

是的，沒錯。本季為 840 萬美元至 860 萬美元。然後，一旦營運支出趨於平穩，彼得，從 2025 年初開始，營運支出大約會在 700 萬美元到 720 萬美元之間，沒錯。

And that's absolutely linked to the, as you said, this restructuring we've announced today and the refocusing, and that's a key part of that.

正如您所說，這絕對與我們今天宣布的重組和重新定位有關，這是其中的關鍵部分。

Wonderful. And then so from a cash flow perspective, cash neutrality for you guys suggest mid-50 then on the sales side. Is that about right at that level?

精彩的。那麼從現金流的角度來看，你們的現金中性建議在銷售方面為 50 左右。就這個水平嗎？

Roughly, yes, roughly. Perhaps a little bit higher for cash neutrality. But we -- with the actions that we've announced today, we think we can be cash neutral to cash positive in 2025. We're maintaining a solid cash balance this year as well, Peter. We started the year roughly where we're at right now at $72 million.

大致上，是的，大致上。對於現金中性來說可能要高一點。但是，透過我們今天宣布的行動，我們認為到 2025 年，我們可以實現現金中性到現金正值的成長。彼得，我們今年也維持了穩健的現金餘額。我們今年年初的資產規模大約是 7,200 萬美元。

So the cash position is a very solid one.

因此現金狀況非常穩定。

And my last question. Sitting on the cash that you're sitting on, clearly more cash than you need to run HDD. What is the use of cash from a priority perspective going to be looking forward?

我的最後一個問題。從您手上的現金來看，顯然比運行 HDD 所需的現金還要多。從優先角度來看，現金的用途是什麼？

Yes. And I think as you've known all along, one of the keys we've done is by maintaining the strong balance sheet and that cash position -- as maybe given the confidence from our HDD customers that the business is going to be robust, is going to be supported. And as we look at moving some of that technologies are bought under HDD, we'll continue to sort of invest and focus on what is -- as I said, is a more assured business for us going forward. We always look at cash allocation. We'll continue to look at cash allocation.

是的。而且我認為正如你們一直所知，我們所做的關鍵之一就是保持強勁的資產負債表和現金狀況——也許是考慮到我們的 HDD 客戶對業務將強勁發展的信心，我們將獲得支持。當我們考慮將一些技術轉移到 HDD 下時，我們將繼續投資並專注於 — — 正如我所說的，對於我們未來來說是一項更有保障的業務。我們始終關注現金分配。我們將繼續關注現金分配。

We've talked in the past about strategic process. Strategic process is there. It continues to look at all alternatives.

我們過去曾討論過戰略進程。戰略進程就在那裡。它繼續尋找所有的替代方案。

But for us, I mean, a difficult decision today and if you go back to 2022, when I shut down all the sort of programs except one, we believe at that point, there was value to extract from the one coating business we kept and the consumer device market then needed a horizontal coater. We made the decision to invest in that. We believe that eliminating the need for tape in that industry, we have an opportunity.

但對我們來說，今天的決定很艱難，如果回顧 2022 年，當時我關閉了除一個項目之外的所有項目，我們相信，在那個時候，我們保留的一項塗層業務是有價值的，當時的消費設備市場需要一台水平塗佈機。我們決定對此進行投資。我們相信，消除該行業對膠帶的需求，我們就有機會。

If we thought it was easy, someone else would have done it. We gave it our best shot. We talked for the glass partner we talked with the glass finisher, and that's resulted in today's restructuring and tough decision we've taken. What we have throughout this process, maintained a critical focus on maintaining a strong cash balance, and that will continue into the future.

如果我們認為這很容易，那麼其他人早就做到了。我們已盡了最大努力。我們代表玻璃合作夥伴與玻璃加工商進行了交談，這導致了今天的重組和艱難的決定。我們在整個過程中始終將重點放在維持強勁的現金餘額上，並且這種做法將持續到未來。

Great. Well, excellent job being a steward of capital. Sometimes it's tougher. If it's easy, it's easy, but a good job being a good steward of capital.

偉大的。嗯，作為資本的管家，你的工作做得非常好。有時會更加艱難。如果容易，那就容易，但成為優秀的資本管家是一份好工作。

Mark Miller, Benchmark.

馬克·米勒，基準。

Yes, I'm just curious. In terms of the TRIO qualification, you said the instrument, or the coater could not provide advantages over existing equipment. I'm just curious, was it yields or throughput or uptime? What caused that situation?

是的，我只是好奇。就 TRIO 資格而言，您說該儀器或塗佈機無法比現有設備提供優勢。我只是好奇，是產量、吞吐量還是正常運作時間？是什麼原因造成了這種情況？

Thank you, Mark. A very good question. As we said, if it was easy, someone have already done it, and we have a horizontal coater that can actually eliminate that tape. We've put a lot of effort in. We worked hard with a glass partner.

謝謝你，馬克。非常好的問題。正如我們所說，如果這很容易，那麼已經有人做到了，而且我們有一個可以真正消除膠帶的水平塗佈機。我們已經付出了很多的努力。我們與玻璃合作夥伴一起進行了艱苦的努力。

Then we worked with a leading glass finisher, but we couldn't deliver the required yield performance. The yield performance to compete with the vertical coaters had to be 97% particle-free. At the moment, there is no horizontal technology that can achieve particle free coating.

然後，我們與一家領先的玻璃加工商合作，但我們無法提供所需的產量性能。與垂直塗佈機競爭的產量性能必須達到 97% 無顆粒。目前，尚無水平技術可實現無顆粒塗覆。

We believe that was not a reason not to have a go at this task, and we applied our capabilities to try and create what would have been the only horizontal coater with 0 part of the market. At this stage, with us not being able to achieve the particle or yield performance, I felt we needed to stop further development costs, focus on our core business, which was growing again. And I hope you appreciate that was not an easy decision, but it's the right one for Intevac.

我們相信這不是不去嘗試這項任務的理由，我們運用我們的能力，嘗試創造出唯一一款佔據市場 0 份額的水平塗佈機。在這個階段，由於我們無法達到顆粒或產量性能，我覺得我們需要停止進一步的開發成本，專注於我們正在再次成長的核心業務。我希望你們明白這不是一個容易的決定，但對 Intevac 來說，這是正確的決定。

When I started my role here in 2022, I stated very clearly that we would invest in TRIO because of a real market need. And that if we were not confident in the success of product, we would shut it down fast, and that is what we've done today.

當我在 2022 年開始擔任這裡的職位時，我非常明確地表示，我們會投資 TRIO，因為市場有真正的需求。如果我們對產品的成功沒有信心，我們就會迅速將其關閉，而這就是我們今天所做的。

I appreciate that added color. So there's no more quals or anything else. You're just basically put TRIO to bed. You're not trying to explore any other customers. Is that correct?

我很欣賞所添加的色彩。因此不再有任何資格或其他任何東西。你基本上只是讓 TRIO 上床睡覺了。您並未嘗試探索任何其他客戶。那正確嗎？

We have some active qualifications in the research and development opportunity for low volume equipment for sampling and testing. We believe those can come to fruition in 2025. Anything we can do with that will be upside on the forecast we've given.

我們在用於採樣和測試的小批量設備的研發方面擁有一些積極的資格。我們相信這些目標將在 2025 年實現。我們所做的任何事情都會對我們給予的預測產生積極影響。

So therefore, the qualifications that we had that we thought could deliver revenue in the 12-month period, we'll complete those qualifications. So there is still interest in sort of R&D level tool, but not in the high volume, high throughput we were hoping in the early stage of this development cycle.

因此，對於我們認為可以在 12 個月內帶來收入的資質，我們將完成這些資格認證。因此，人們仍然對某種研發級工具感興趣，但並不對我們在這個開發週期早期階段所希望的高容量、高吞吐量感興趣。

Hendi Susanto, Gabelli Funds.

Hendi Susanto，Gabelli Funds。

My first question. Excluding the customers' inventory obligation, what was the pro forma gross margin in Q3?

我的第一個問題。除去客戶的庫存義務，第三季的預計毛利率是多少？

We have mid-40s margin, just over mid-40s margin, excluding the pass-through and other inventory adjustments.

我們的利潤率在 45% 左右，略高於 45% 左右，不包括轉嫁和其他庫存調整。

Okay. Yes. And then, Nigel, maybe you can give us some color on what kinds of up or down seasonally, cyclicality of the hard disk drive business that is typical in Q4, Q1, Q2, Q3, maybe you can remind us? I know that this may not represent a normal cycle yet, but in terms of expectation and colors, any guidepost?

好的。是的。然後，奈傑爾，也許您可以向我們介紹硬碟業務在第四季度、第一季、第二季、第三季的季節性上漲或下跌情況，您能提醒我們一下嗎？我知道這可能還不代表正常的週期，但就預期和顏色而言，有什麼指導方針嗎？

I think if you look through this year and the sort of upgrade cycle, which is -- we really have been in 12 months of an upgrade cycle, and we'll see most of that going through 2025. So yes, there's always going to be some sort of minor levels of cyclicality between quarters, especially as some of our customers different year ends to us and, therefore, timing of some of their investments can change and be modified through a calendar year.

我認為，如果你回顧今年的升級週期，你會發現我們確實處於 12 個月的升級週期中，我們會看到大部分升級將持續到 2025 年。所以是的，各個季度之間總會存在某種輕微的周期性，特別是因為我們的一些客戶的年份與我們不同，因此他們的一些投資時間可能會在一年內發生變化和修改。

But overall, for the year, we see this year sort of just under the 50 million and next year, about the same level and therefore, keeping that relatively smooth throughout the whole financial year.

但總體而言，就今年而言，我們預計今年的銷售額將略低於 5,000 萬，明年也大致相同，因此整個財政年度的銷售額將保持相對穩定。

So overall, we've seen the upgrades flow through each quarter, and we expect that to continue through 2025. So it's not like it's got big system upgrades or new systems this year or into 2025. It's all about upgrades and a relatively even quarterly performance.

總體而言，我們看到每個季度的升級都在進行，我們預計這種趨勢將持續到 2025 年。因此，今年或 2025 年都不會進行大規模的系統升級或推出新系統。這一切都是為了升級和相對均衡的季度業績。

And Nigel, like when it comes to upgrade, what kind of timing does customers usually pursue whether it's more coming in waves, whether it's more like a step-up upgrades and then followed by, let's say, some inactive upgrade activities? So what kind of upgrade patterns in terms of the orders that customers place?

奈傑爾，比如說到升級，客戶通常會追求什麼樣的時機？那麼從客戶下單來看有什麼樣的升級模式呢？

Yes. I mean, I think as you know, typically, we get -- we have a very, very good relationships with our customers and all of our customers give us good forecasting and longer-term visibility. And we typically run with a lead times in the 9- to 12-month period. So if you look at our order backlog in the sort of 45 million level, we get good visibility that gives us confidence in the level of ordering through 2025. I think the biggest driver, as you go beyond '25 into the future, will be the industry adoption of HAMR, which if you listen to some of the -- our customers' earnings releases, everyone is talking about the opportunities not just for HAMR increased terabytes for hard disk drives.

是的。我的意思是，我認為如你所知，通常情況下，我們與客戶的關係非常非常好，並且我們所有的客戶都為我們提供良好的預測和長期可見性。我們的交貨週期一般為 9 至 12 個月。因此，如果您查看我們的訂單積壓量在 4500 萬的水平，我們就會獲得良好的可見性，這使我們對到 2025 年的訂單水平充滿信心。我認為，在未來 25 年內，最大的驅動力將是業界對 HAMR 的採用，如果你聽一些我們客戶的收益報告，你會發現每個人都在談論 HAMR 帶來的機會，而不僅僅是硬碟的 TB 數增加。

And as those keep increasing and there's adoption of the latest technology, that could see some pull-in or some acceleration. But at the moment, we've got good visibility out for the next 12 months, which is a good position to be in.

隨著這些因素不斷增加以及最新技術的採用，可能會出現一些拉動或加速。但目前，我們對未來 12 個月的前景有很好的預期，這是一個很好的機會。

And then one question on TRIO. Now that TRIO is putting on -- putting us -- like you put aside TRIO, is there any risk of inventory write-off of components in your inventories?

然後是關於 TRIO 的一個問題。既然 TRIO 正在投入 - 將我們 - 就像您將 TRIO 放在一邊一樣，您的庫存中的組件是否存在庫存註銷的風險？

I think the key thing there is, as I said on -- to Mark, we've got good opportunities to conclude on evaluations, R&D tools, less substrate. We've got an opportunity with some polymer substrates.

我認為關鍵在於，正如我對馬克所說的那樣，我們有很好的機會在評估、研發工具和更少的基質上得出結論。我們有機會利用一些聚合物基質。

So even though the efforts of recent months have concluded in what is clearly a disappointing fashion, we continue to believe in the value residing in our material talents and expertise and our efforts through 2025 will be on turning that inventory into revenues. So at this point, we're not taking any additional inventory reserves as we believe we have opportunities to actually turn that inventory into revenue for R&D units.

因此，儘管最近幾個月的努力顯然以令人失望的方式結束，但我們仍然相信我們的實體人才和專業知識的價值，並且我們在 2025 年的努力將致力於將這些庫存轉化為收入。因此，目前我們不會採取任何額外的庫存儲備，因為我們相信我們有機會將這些庫存轉化為研發部門的收入。

And then any information, how much TRIO related inventory in the balance sheet?

然後有任何資訊嗎，資產負債表中有多少 TRIO 相關庫存？

The balance of inventory pertaining to TRIO was just over $16 million in one hand.

與TRIO有關的庫存餘額一手剛超過1600萬美元。

$60 million?

6000萬美元？

1.6. My apologies.

1.6.我很抱歉。

Oh, 1.6. Okay, $16 Million. Okay. Yes. So let's say, will that -- let's say, if the R&D turned into something more meaningful, you believe that it can consume that $16 million in 2025?

哦，1.6。好的，1600 萬美元。好的。是的。那麼，假設一下，如果研發變成了更有意義的事情，您認為它可以在 2025 年消耗掉這 1,600 萬美元嗎？

That is our hope, which is why there's been no inventory reserve taken.

這是我們的希望，這也是為什麼沒有採取庫存儲備的原因。

(Operator Instructions) There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to hand the floor back over to Nigel Hunton for any closing comments.

（操作員指示）現在沒有其他問題。我想將發言權交還給奈傑爾·亨頓 (Nigel Hunton)，請他發表最後評論。

Thank you. And thank you for all your questions. And I also want to wish and to thank all of our employees as well as their counterparts with our industry partners, all their hard work and efforts and then delivering a very strong quarterly performance. I'd also like to wish our investors are ongoing support, and we're also welcoming a new IR firm, KCSA. So if you want to reach out to Cameron in the short term for any follow-ups as they transition into their new role.

謝謝。感謝您提出的所有問題。我還要祝願並感謝我們所有的員工以及行業合作夥伴，感謝他們的辛勤工作和努力，才取得了非常強勁的季度業績。我也希望我們的投資者能夠繼續支持我們，我們也歡迎新的 IR 公司 KCSA。因此，如果您想在短期內聯繫卡梅倫，以便在他們過渡到新角色時進行任何後續跟進。

And I also look forward to updating you on our progress on our Q4 call in early February. So thank you for joining me today.

我也期待在 2 月初的第四季電話會議上向您通報我們的進展。非常感謝你們今天的到來。