Itron Inc (ITRI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Itron's fourth-quarter 2024 earnings release conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Itron 2024 年第四季財報發布電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I will now hand the conference over to speaker host, Paul Vincent, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我將會議交給演講主持人、投資者關係副總裁保羅文森 (Paul Vincent)。請繼續。

Good morning and welcome to Itron's fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call.

早安，歡迎參加 Itron 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

Tom Deitrich, Itron's President and Chief Executive Officer; and Joan Hooper, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer will review Itron's fourth-quarter results and provide a general business update and outlook.

Itron 總裁兼執行長 Tom Deitrich；資深副總裁兼財務長 Joan Hooper 將回顧 Itron 第四季的業績並提供一般業務更新和展望。

Earlier today, the company issued a press release announcing its results. This release also includes details related to the conference call and webcast replay information. Accompanying today's call is a presentation that is available through the webcast and on our corporate website under the Investor Relations tab. Following prepared remarks, the call will open for questions using the process the operator described.

今天早些時候，該公司發布了一份新聞稿，宣布了其業績。本新聞稿還包括與電話會議和網路直播重播資訊相關的詳細資訊。今天的電話會議附帶一份演示文稿，可透過網路廣播和我們公司網站的「投資者關係」標籤取得。在準備好的發言之後，電話會議將按照接線員描述的流程開始回答問題。

Before Tom begins, a reminder that our earnings release and financial presentation include non-GAAP financial information that we believe enhances the overall understanding of our current and future performance. Reconciliation of differences between GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures are available in our earnings release and on our Investor Relations website.

在湯姆開始之前，需要提醒的是，我們的收益報告和財務報告包括非公認會計準則財務信息，我們相信這些信息可以增強對我們當前和未來業績的整體了解。我們的收益報告和投資者關係網站上提供了 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標之間差異的對帳表。

We will be making statements during this call that are forward-looking. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could differ materially from these expectations because of factors that were presented in today's earnings release and comments made during this conference call, as well as those presented in the Risk Factors section of our Form 10-K and other reports and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

我們將在本次電話會議中發表前瞻性聲明。這些聲明是基於當前的預期和假設，但存在風險和不確定性。由於今天的收益報告中提出的因素和電話會議中所作的評論，以及我們 10-K 表格和其他向美國證券交易委員會提交的報告和文件中的風險因素部分中提出的因素，實際結果可能與這些預期存在重大差異。

All company comments, estimates, or forward-looking statements are made in a good faith attempt to provide appropriate insight to our current and future operating and financial environment. Materials discussed today, February 25, 2025, may materially change, and we do not undertake any duty to update any of our forward-looking statements.

所有公司評論、估計或前瞻性陳述均出於善意，旨在為我們當前和未來的營運和財務環境提供適當的洞察。今天（2025 年 2 月 25 日）討論的資料可能會發生重大變化，我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

Now please turn to page 4 of our presentation as our CEO, Tom Deitrich, begins his remarks.

現在請翻到簡報的第 4 頁，我們的執行長 Tom Deitrich 開始他的演講。

Thank you, Paul. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our call. The Itron team executed well during the fourth quarter, producing results above expectations and demonstrating our strategic and financial progress. These results capped record full-year revenue for our growth segments of Network Solutions and Outcomes.

謝謝你，保羅。大家早安，感謝你們參加我們的電話會議。Itron 團隊在第四季度表現出色，取得了超越預期的業績，並展示了我們的策略和財務進步。這些結果創下了我們網路解決方案和成果成長部門全年收入的新高。

Financial highlights for the fourth quarter are detailed on slide 4 and include revenue of $613 million, adjusted EBITDA of $81 million, non-GAAP earnings per share of $1.35, free cash flow of $70 million.

第四季的財務亮點詳見投影片 4，包括營收 6.13 億美元、調整後 EBITDA 8,100 萬美元、非 GAAP 每股收益 1.35 美元、自由現金流 7,000 萬美元。

Turning to slide 5, beyond the financial results, performance highlights for the fourth quarter include record quarterly bookings of $1.4 billion, producing a new record total backlog level of $4.7 billion. Market demand remains stable with a healthy pipeline of opportunities related to grid resiliency, grid capacity, safety, and automation driven by the continued adoption of our grid intelligence platform which now includes 13.4 million distributed intelligence endpoints shipped and over 15 million applications licensed.

轉到投影片 5，除了財務表現之外，第四季的業績亮點還包括創紀錄的 14 億美元季度預訂量，創造了 47 億美元的新紀錄總積壓訂單量。市場需求保持穩定，電網彈性、電網容量、安全性和自動化相關的機會良性循環，這得益於我們電網智慧平台的持續採用，目前該平台已發貨 1,340 萬個分散式智慧端點，並已獲得 1,500 多萬個應用程式許可。

Turning to slide 6, the full-year 2024 bookings of $2.7 billion contributed to our record year-end backlog and a 2024 book to bill ratio of 1.11. Our backlog is dominated by grid edge intelligence platform content from our Network Solutions and Outcomes segments, including over 10 million endpoints and associated platform elements.

轉到投影片 6，2024 年全年 27 億美元的訂單量促成了我們創紀錄的年底積壓訂單量，2024 年的訂單出貨比達到 1.11。我們的積壓訂單主要由來自網路解決方案和成果部門的電網邊緣智慧平台內容組成，其中包括超過 1,000 萬個端點和相關平台元素。

Selected bookings highlight our business expansion during the fourth quarter. Potomac Electric Power Company serving the Washington DC area and Itron have partnered to offer an impactful residential demand response program. Itron has supported Potomac Electric's goals of providing flexible and on-demand load control, creating an efficient non-wireless capacity.

精選預訂凸顯了我們第四季的業務擴張。服務於華盛頓特區的波托馬克電力公司和 Itron 合作推出了一項有影響力的住宅需求響應計劃。Itron 支援 Potomac Electric 提供靈活和按需負載控制的目標，創造高效的非無線容量。

The program has enrolled nearly 500,000 participants that utilize direct load control devices and smart thermostats to reduce the load on Pepco's system during the most demand-heavy periods. In Q4, Pepco extended their multi-year relationship with Itron, enabling continued participant support and laying the path for the next generation of grid edge demand response technologies, including Itron's distributed intelligence capability.

該計劃已招募近 50 萬名參與者，他們利用直接負載控制裝置和智慧恆溫器在需求最旺盛的時期減少 Pepco 系統的負載。第四季度，Pepco 延長了與 Itron 的多年合作關係，為參與者提供持續支持，並為下一代電網邊緣需求響應技術（包括 Itron 的分散式智慧功能）奠定了基礎。

Additionally, one of Itron's longest standing gas customers, who we have been working with through the various stages of their AMR to AMI transition and future positioning, signed an agreement in Q4 for our intelligence technology which provides the connected metrology on the active grid. Our solution will help this customer maximize safety and grid edge intelligence for their customers. We are delighted to continue to be a trusted partner for the large gas utilities by leading the industry with innovation that delivers true benefits.

此外，Itron 最長期的天然氣客戶之一，我們一直與其合作，經歷了 AMR 到 AMI 過渡和未來定位的各個階段，該客戶於第四季度簽署了一項協議，採用我們的智能技術，為活躍電網提供互聯計量。我們的解決方案將幫助該客戶最大限度地提高其客戶的安全性和電網邊緣智慧。我們很高興能夠繼續成為大型天然氣公用事業公司值得信賴的合作夥伴，以真正帶來利益的創新引領產業。

The challenges our customers confront related to reliability, safety, resiliency, and efficiency are intensifying. This is contributing to our strong pipeline of opportunities, and as a result, we anticipate a book to bill ratio of at least 1:1 for 2025.

我們的客戶在可靠性、安全性、彈性和效率方面面臨的挑戰日益加劇。這為我們提供了強大的機遇，因此，我們預計 2025 年的訂單出貨比將至少達到 1:1。

Now, we'll turn the call over to Joan to provide details for our fourth-quarter and full-year results as well as our outlook for 2025.

現在，我們將把電話交給瓊，讓她提供有關我們第四季度和全年業績的詳細資訊以及我們對 2025 年的展望。

Thank you, Tom. I'll review Itron's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 results before discussing our financial outlook for the full year 2025 and for the first quarter.

謝謝你，湯姆。在討論 2025 年全年和第一季的財務展望之前，我將回顧 Itron 2024 年第四季和全年的業績。

Please turn to slide 7 for a summary of consolidated GAAP results. Fourth-quarter revenue of $613 million increased 6% year over year. The higher revenue was driven by both strong customer demand and operational execution. Gross margin of 34.9% was 90 basis points higher than last year due to product mix and operational efficiencies.

請翻到投影片 7 查看合併 GAAP 結果的摘要。第四季營收為 6.13 億美元，較去年同期成長 6%。收入成長的動力來自於強勁的客戶需求和營運執行。由於產品組合和營運效率的提高，毛利率為 34.9%，比去年高出 90 個基點。

GAAP net income of $58 million or $1.26 per diluted share compared to $44 million or $0.96 per diluted share in the prior year. The improvement was driven by higher levels of operating and interest income, partially offset by higher tax expense.

以美國通用會計準則計算的淨利潤為 5,800 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.26 美元，而去年同期為 4,400 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.96 美元。這一改善是由更高的營業收入和利息收入推動的，但被更高的稅費部分抵消。

Regarding non-GAAP metrics on slide 8, non-GAAP operating income of $71 million increased 16% year over year. Adjusted EBITDA of $81 million increased 19%. Non-GAAP net income for the quarter was $62 million or $1.35 per diluted share versus $1.23 a year ago. Free cash flow is $70 million in Q4 versus $39 million a year ago. The improvement reflects strong year-over-year operational earnings growth and increased interest income.

關於第 8 張投影片上的非 GAAP 指標，非 GAAP 營業收入為 7,100 萬美元，較去年同期成長 16%。調整後的 EBITDA 為 8,100 萬美元，成長 19%。本季非公認會計準則淨收入為 6,200 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.35 美元，去年同期為每股 1.23 美元。第四季自由現金流為 7,000 萬美元，而去年同期為 3,900 萬美元。這一改善反映了營業利潤同比強勁增長和利息收入增加。

Year-over-year revenue growth by business segment is on slide 9. Device Solutions revenue decreased 5% on a constant currency basis, driven primarily by an expected decline in legacy electric meter sales. Network Solutions revenue grew 6% year over year, driven by increased new project deployments and strong operational execution. Outcomes revenue grew 25% year over year, primarily due to increased software licenses and services.

第 9 張投影片顯示了各業務部門的年收入成長情況。設備解決方案收入以固定匯率計算下降了 5%，主要原因是傳統電錶銷售額預計下降。網路解決方案營收年增 6%，這得益於新專案部署的增加和強勁的營運執行。成果收入年增 25%，主要原因是軟體授權和服務的增加。

Moving to the non-GAAP year-over-year EPS bridge on slide 10. Our Q4 non-GAAP EPS of $1.35 per diluted share increased $0.12 year over year. Pre-tax operating performance contributed a $0.37 per share increase, driven by the fall through of higher revenue and gross profit, partially offset by higher operating expenses. Higher tax expense had a negative year-over-year impact of $0.26 per share.

前往幻燈片 10 上的非 GAAP 同比 EPS 橋接器。我們第四季的非公認會計準則每股收益為 1.35 美元，較去年同期增加 0.12 美元。稅前營業業績貢獻每股 0.37 美元的成長，這得益於收入和毛利的下降，但被營業費用的增加部分抵消。稅費支出增加對每股盈餘造成 0.26 美元的年比負面影響。

Turning to slides 11 through 13, I'll review Q4 segment results compared with the prior year. Device Solutions revenue was $109 million. Gross margin was 26.6%, and operating margin was 19.9%. Gross margin declined 30 basis points year every year due to product mix, but operating margin was up 240 basis points due to lower operating expenses.

轉到第 11 至 13 張投影片，我將回顧與去年同期相比的第四季分部業績。設備解決方案收入為 1.09 億美元。毛利率為26.6%，營業利益率為19.9%。由於產品組合的原因，毛利率每年下降 30 個基點，但由於營運費用降低，營運利潤率上升了 240 個基點。

Network Solutions revenue was $413 million with gross margin of 35.1% and operating margin of 26%. Gross margin increased 10 basis points year every year due to product mix, and operating margin was down 30 basis points due to increased operating expenses. Outcomes revenue was a record $91 million with gross margin of 44% and operating margin of 22.8%.

網路解決方案收入為 4.13 億美元，毛利率為 35.1%，營業利益率為 26%。由於產品組合的原因，毛利率每年增加 10 個基點，而由於營運費用增加，營運利潤率下降 30 個基點。成果收入達到創紀錄的 9,100 萬美元，毛利率為 44%，營業利益率為 22.8%。

Gross margin increased 420 basis points year over year, and operating margin went up 290 basis points due to a higher margin revenue mix. For a recap of full-year 2024 results, please turn to slide 14.

毛利率年增 420 個基點，由於利潤率收入組合增加，營業利潤率成長 290 個基點。如需回顧 2024 年全年業績，請翻到投影片 14。

The financial performance was very strong in 2024, and we set several new records. Revenue of $2.44 billion grew 12% versus 2023, reflecting solid customer demand, increased adoption of our grid edge intelligence platform, and strong operational performance. 2024 results did include the conversion of $125 million of previously constrained revenue, which will not occur in 2025.

2024年的財務表現非常強勁，我們創下了多項新紀錄。24.4 億美元的營收較 2023 年成長 12%，反映出強勁的客戶需求、我們電網邊緣智慧平台的採用率提高以及強勁的營運表現。 2024 年的業績確實包括轉換之前受限的 1.25 億美元收入，但這在 2025 年不會發生。

Our Network Solutions and Outcomes segments both delivered record annual revenue in 2024. Gross margin of 34.4% was a new record for Itron. It was up 160 basis points year over year due to a higher margin product mix and operational efficiencies. Adjusted EBITDA was a new record of $324 million or 13.3% of revenue, which compares with $226 million or 10.4% in 2023. Non-GAAP earnings per diluted share was also a new record at $5.62 and compares to $3.36 in 2023.

我們的網路解決方案和成果部門在 2024 年均實現了創紀錄的年收入。34.4%的毛利率創下了Itron的新紀錄。由於利潤率更高的產品組合和營運效率，該利潤率比去年同期上漲了 160 個基點。調整後的 EBITDA 創下 3.24 億美元的新紀錄，佔營收的 13.3%，而 2023 年為 2.26 億美元，佔營收的 10.4%。非公認會計準則每股攤薄收益也創下 5.62 美元的新紀錄，而 2023 年為 3.36 美元。

Finally, the company achieved a new record for free cash flow of $208 million or 9% of revenue compared to $98 million or 5% of revenue in the prior year. The year-over-year increase was primarily due to higher operational earnings and interest income.

最後，該公司的自由現金流創下了 2.08 億美元的新紀錄，佔營收的 9%，而去年同期的自由現金流為 9,800 萬美元，佔營收的 5%。年比成長主要歸因於營業利潤和利息收入的增加。

Now please turn to slide 15. I'll review liquidity and debt at the end of the fourth quarter. Total debt was $1.265 billion and net debt was $214 million. As of December 31, net leverage was 0.7 times, and cash and equivalents were $1.05 billion.

現在請翻到第 15 張投影片。我將在第四季末審查流動性和債務。總負債為 12.65 億美元，淨負債為 2.14 億美元。截至12月31日，淨槓桿率為0.7倍，現金及等價物為10.5億美元。

Please turn to slide 16 for our current full-year 2025 financial outlook. First, let me comment on our 2024 bookings. We were quite pleased with the Q4 bookings total of $1.4 billion, which represented over 50% of the total year bookings and was higher than we expected.

請翻到第 16 張投影片，查看我們目前的 2025 年全年財務展望。首先，讓我評論一下我們 2024 年的預訂情況。我們對第四季度的預訂總額 14 億美元感到非常滿意，這佔全年預訂總額的 50% 以上，並且高於我們的預期。

As we discussed during the last few calls, the backend loaded nature of the 2024 bookings and the typical timeframe between bookings to revenue means most of the new bookings will translate to revenue beyond 2025, and this timing has been factored into our current outlook for 2025 revenue.

正如我們在過去幾次電話會議中所討論的那樣，2024 年預訂的後端負載性質以及預訂到收入之間的典型時間範圍意味著大多數新預訂將在 2025 年以後轉化為收入，並且這個時間已經被考慮到我們目前對 2025 年收入的展望中。

We anticipate 2025 revenue to be within the range of $2.4 billion to $2.5 billion. At the midpoint, this represents flat year-over-year growth, but when normalizing 2024 to exclude the $125 million of catch-up revenue, the year-over-year growth is approximately 6%. We currently anticipate 2025 non-GAAP EPS to fall within a range of $5.20 to $5.60 per diluted share. This EPS outlook assumes an effective tax rate of 25% for the full year.

我們預計 2025 年營收將在 24 億美元至 25 億美元之間。從中間值來看，這代表著同比增長持平，但如果將 2024 年標準化以排除 1.25 億美元的補繳收入，則同比增長約為 6%。我們目前預計 2025 年非 GAAP 每股盈餘將在每股 5.20 美元至 5.60 美元之間。本每股盈餘展望假設全年有效稅率為 25%。

Quarterly rates could fluctuate based on jurisdictional mix and the timing of tax settlements. At the midpoint of this EPS range and after normalizing the tax rate to 25% for both year, we expect 2025 year-over-year earnings growth of approximately 8%. Please note that our assumptions assume a stable market environment, including no change to the 2024 trade policies. The trade situation is obviously very fluid, and we will provide any necessary updates on this during our Q1 call.

季度稅率可能會根據司法管轄區組合和稅收結算時間而波動。在該每股收益範圍的中點，並將兩年的稅率標準化為 25% 後，我們預計 2025 年的年比收益成長率約為 8%。請注意，我們的假設是市場環境穩定，包括 2024 年貿易政策不會改變。貿易情況顯然非常不穩定，我們將在第一季電話會議上提供任何必要的更新。

Now please turn to slide 17 for our first-quarter outlook. We anticipate Q1 revenue to be within a range of $610 million to $620 million, a 2% year-over-year increase at the midpoint. We anticipate first-quarter non-GAAP EPS to be within the range of $1.25 to $1.35 per diluted share, which at the midpoint is approximately 14% year-over-year growth after normalizing for the tax rate.

現在請翻到第 17 張投影片，看看我們第一季的展望。我們預計第一季的營收將在 6.1 億美元至 6.2 億美元之間，中位數年增 2%。我們預計第一季非公認會計準則每股收益將在每股 1.25 美元至 1.35 美元之間，按中間值計算，在根據稅率進行正常化後，同比增長約 14%。

Our 2024 financial results demonstrated good progress toward our 2027 targets for revenue growth, margin expansion, and increased free cash flow generation. While our revenue growth rate will normalize during 2025, we remain focused on efficiency in pursuit of continued cash flow and profitability growth. We remain confident in the 2027 targets discussed at last March's Investor Day.

我們的 2024 年財務表現表明，我們在實現 2027 年收入成長、利潤率擴大和增加自由現金流的目標方面取得了良好進展。雖然我們的收入成長率將在 2025 年恢復正常，但我們仍將專注於效率，以追求持續的現金流和獲利能力成長。我們仍然對去年三月投資者日討論的 2027 年目標充滿信心。

Now, I'll turn the call back to Tom.

現在，我將把電話轉回給湯姆。

Thank you, Joan. Our teams executed at a high level across the organization and delivered another solid quarter of results to conclude the year. In addition to several new revenue and bookings records being achieved, margins expanded and free cash flow grew.

謝謝你，瓊。我們的團隊在整個組織內表現出色，並在年底取得了另一個穩健的季度業績。除了創下多項新的收入和預訂記錄外，利潤率也擴大了，自由現金流也成長了。

These represent important milestones as we progress towards our strategic goals, which can only be achieved by ensuring the success of our customers who face a myriad of challenges related to the management of energy and water resources. We have built a resilient and experienced team at Itron and are well positioned for continued success.

這些都是我們朝著策略目標邁進的重要里程碑，而實現這些目標只有透過確保面臨與能源和水資源管理相關的無數挑戰的客戶取得成功才能實現。我們在 Itron 建立了一支堅韌且經驗豐富的團隊，為持續成功做好了準備。

Thank you for joining our call today. Operator, please open the line for some questions.

感謝您今天參加我們的電話會議。接線員，請接通電話以解答一些問題。

(Operator Instructions) Noah Kaye, Oppenheimer.

（操作員指示）諾亞凱，奧本海默。

Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. Well, I'd like to get in a bit into the demand environment, but I got to start with cash generation, the balance sheet here. Joan, maybe first after the strong free cash flow performance in '24, maybe you can give us some broad indications of what you're thinking about for '25 on free cash flow conversion? I have to assume there's some incremental improvement here as well, just kind of give more capital of factors.

早安.感謝您回答這些問題。好吧，我想稍微了解一下需求環境，但我必須從現金產生，也就是這裡的資產負債表開始。瓊，也許首先在 24 年自由現金流表現強勁之後，您可以給我們一些關於您對 25 年自由現金流轉換的考慮的大致跡象嗎？我必須假設這裡也有一些漸進的改進，只是提供更多的資本因素。

But then, I mean you're sitting on over $1 billion of cash, net leverage really attractive here. Just talk to us a little bit about the M&A pipeline and in absence of any M&A in the near term, what you plan to do with over $1 billion of cash?

但是，我的意思是，你坐擁超過 10 億美元的現金，淨槓桿確實很有吸引力。請與我們簡單談談併購計劃，如果短期內沒有任何併購，您計劃如何處理超過 10 億美元的現金？

Yeah, I'll take the first one, and then Tom could talk about what we're looking at again for M&A. So yeah, I would expect continued improvement and continued free cash flow fall through improvement as we go from 2024 to 2025. So if you recall for Investor Day, we talked about 10% to 12% of revenue for free cash flow. In 2024, that was about 8.5%. I would expect that percent to continue to go up and get us toward the targets for 2027.

是的，我先回答第一個問題，然後湯姆可以談談我們正在考慮的併購問題。所以是的，我預計從 2024 年到 2025 年，情況會持續改善，自由現金流也會持續下降。因此，如果您還記得投資者日，我們討論了 10% 到 12% 的收入用於自由現金流。到 2024 年，這一比例將達到 8.5% 左右。我預計該百分比將繼續上升並幫助我們實現 2027 年的目標。

So there's a little bit of seasonality in terms of certain payments either for bonus or tax or whatever or quarter to quarter, but my comments are good for the whole year that I expect free cash flow to increase and increase as a percentage of revenue. A great question about sitting out on a lot of cash.

因此，某些付款（無論是獎金還是稅收還是其他什麼）或季度付款都有一定的季節性，但我對全年的評論是好的，我預計自由現金流將會增加，並且佔收入的百分比也會增加。關於持有大量現金，這是一個好問題。

It is actually currently contributing to the EPS. So if you look at the guidance we gave for EPS, it's above where the consensus was, and that's really more of an issue of interest income because we are earning quite nice interest rates on the cash we have, but obviously, we're not a bank and we're not looking to sit on that cash. So maybe, Tom, just talk about our pipeline.

它實際上目前正在為每股收益做出貢獻。因此，如果你看一下我們給出的每股收益指引，就會發現它高於普遍預期，而這實際上更多的是一個利息收入的問題，因為我們從所持有的現金中獲得了相當不錯的利率，但顯然，我們不是銀行，我們也不想坐擁這些現金。所以，湯姆，也許只談論我們的管道。

Sure, from an M&A perspective, we remain very active at looking at various targets out there, the types of things that we are interested in generally tend to be Outcomes forward. They tend to be in the grid intelligence types of areas, really rounding out the portfolio that we can offer our customers all the way from planning to operational technology. So very similar types of things that we've been looking at.

當然，從併購的角度來看，我們仍然非常積極地尋找各種目標，我們感興趣的事物類型通常傾向於成果導向。它們往往屬於電網智慧領域的領域，真正完善了我們可以為客戶提供的從規劃到營運技術的全系列產品組合。我們所研究的事物類型非常相似。

We just want to make sure that we're really, really disciplined and have a move that will be something that's truly scalable on the technology side and be in a position to contribute from a financial perspective.

我們只是想確保我們真的非常自律，採取的舉措在技術方面真正具有可擴展性，並且能夠從財務角度做出貢獻。

All right, thanks. I think just to shift to the demand environment and specifically Outcomes, we're starting to see some good operating leverage here in the segment, but Tom, to go back to your comments, you've got 13 million DI endpoints shipped in the field and I think you said 15 million applications licensed with another 10 million endpoints in backlog.

好的，謝謝。我認為，只要轉向需求環境，特別是成果，我們就會開始看到該領域的一些良好運營槓桿，但是湯姆，回到你的評論，你已經在現場運送了 1300 萬個 DI 端點，我想你說過有 1500 萬個應用程序獲得許可，還有 1000 萬個端點積壓。

That kind of suggests roughly that the adoption rate of applications and kind of the recurring revenue per endpoint, if you will, still has an awful lot of runway. So talk to us a little bit about what you see for Outcomes growth over the next year or two and specifically what you see for kind of the recurring revenue portion of it?

這大致表明，應用程式的採用率和每個端點的經常性收入仍有很大的發展空間。那麼，請與我們簡單談談您對未來一兩年內成果成長的看法，特別是您對其中經常性收入部分的看法？

The Outcomes business should be our fastest growing business for '24 to '25 on a year-over-year basis. That is something that we feel good about. You correctly pointed out that underlying technologies, the things we need to get out in the field to create that green field, if you will, for Outcomes growth is indeed happening on the networking side with the expansion of the grid edge intelligence platform.

從年比來看，成果業務應該是我們 2024 年至 2025 年成長最快的業務。這是令我們感到高興的事。您正確地指出，隨著電網邊緣智慧平台的擴展，我們需要在現場開發底層技術來創造綠色領域，而成果的成長確實發生在網路方面。

A lot of runway left in terms of applications. If you did that quick math, 15 million applications over 13 million endpoints in the field, we absolutely see a world where you're running many apps per endpoint, not just a touch over one. So we continue to expand the application choices that our customers have. We continue to see third parties writing applications which we can post on our enterprise application store to create a bigger choice, so the ecosystem's really just getting started and I think there's a lot more to be done.

在應用方面還有很大發展空間。如果你做了這個簡單的計算，現場有 1300 萬個端點上運行著 1500 萬個應用程序，我們絕對會看到一個每個端點上運行著許多應用程序的世界，而不僅僅是一個端點上運行著一個應用程序。因此，我們不斷擴大客戶的應用選擇。我們不斷看到第三方編寫應用程序，我們可以將這些應用程式發佈在我們的企業應用程式商店中，以創造更多的選擇，因此生態系統才剛剛起步，我認為還有很多工作要做。

What we would definitely see people doing with these applications is that the nuts and bolts of what utilities need to be caring about, it's resiliency. It's reliability. It's safety. It is non-wire's capability to increase capacity of what's actually happening. It is understanding where assets are through an electrical connectivity analysis and understanding location awareness.

我們肯定會看到人們使用這些應用程序，公用事業需要關心的根本問題是彈性。這是可靠性。這是安全。無線技術可以增加實際發生事件的容量。它是透過電氣連接分析和位置感知來了解資產的位置。

So a lot of the things that our customers are challenged with, you can take a big bite out of and resolve using software-only technology which creates a high barrier to competition and a really good return on investment for our customers, and it accrues nicely to us. We definitely think that having about a 75% to 80% recurring revenue types of number in the Outcomes space is ultimately where we land. It's still going to be noisy quarter to quarter depending on individual licensing deals and things of that sort.

因此，我們的客戶面臨的許多挑戰，都可以透過使用純軟體技術來解決，這為競爭設定了很高的門檻，並為我們的客戶帶來了非常好的投資回報，而且對我們來說也是一筆不錯的收入。我們確實認為，在成果領域擁有約 75% 到 80% 的經常性收入類型是我們最終的目標。根據個別許可協議和諸如此類的事情，每個季度仍然會很嘈雜。

What you saw in Q4, it was a little bit below that level, as we did have some one-time licensing content inside of that fourth-quarter numbers, so expect a little bit of that lumpiness as we continue to grow. But I think 75% recurring revenue in the Outcomes space is the right place for us to land over the years ahead.

您在第四季度看到的情況略低於該水平，因為我們在第四季度的數據中確實包含一些一次性許可內容，因此隨著我們繼續增長，預計會出現一些波動。但我認為，成果領域 75% 的經常性收入是我們未來幾年的正確目標。

Great color. Thank you.

顏色很棒。謝謝。

Ben Kallo, Baird.

本卡洛，貝爾德。

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my questions. Just following up on Noah there just on the demand environment. Could you just talk about demand maybe by region, North America, and kind of big deals? And then if you could tie in -- if there's any kind of pushback from public utility commissions just because rate increase -- electricity rates have increased so much? And then I have a follow-up.

嘿，夥計們，謝謝你們回答我的問題。只是跟進諾亞對需求環境的看法。能否談談各地區、北美以及各大交易的需求？然後，如果您能結合一下——如果公用事業委員會僅僅因為費率上漲而採取任何形式的阻力——電費上漲了這麼多？然後我有一個後續問題。

Sure, so start with the pipeline of opportunities. It remains very strong, as I've commented in prior quarters, so that the customers need to invest in resiliency and capacity increases, safety, automation, so the opportunity funnel has never been better on a global basis. North America clearly continues to lead the pack, and we would expect those opportunities to remain in view.

當然，那就從機會管道開始吧。正如我在前幾個季度所評論的那樣，它仍然非常強勁，因此客戶需要在彈性和容量增加、安全性、自動化方面進行投資，因此在全球範圍內機會管道從未如此好。北美顯然繼續處於領先地位，我們預計這些機會將繼續存在。

On a global basis, there are certain places around the globe in Asia Pacific which also remain very strong. Australia, New Zealand being probably the top of that list. Europe, I would say is flat. We're taking a bit more of a cautious approach on Europe as the water market there has definitely punched a little bit above its weight in '24. That probably doesn't continue forever, so we'll watch that as that is a bit more of a short-term turns business in terms of how it flows through the bookings and backlog and the revenue overall.

從全球範圍來看，亞太地區的某些地區也保持著非常強勁的成長動能。澳洲、紐西蘭可能是該名單上的佼佼者。我想說歐洲是平穩的。我們對歐洲採取了更謹慎的態度，因為 2024 年歐洲水市場的表現確實略有超乎預期。這種狀況可能不會永遠持續下去，因此我們會密切關注，因為就其在預訂、積壓訂單和整體收入中的流動情況而言，這更像是一項短期週轉業務。

So that's how I would characterize it. On the big deal front, as always, there are large deals and there are small deals. Our fourth-quarter bookings had more than 680 individual deals in it with well over 280 customers, so it is a very wide market swath that we continue to operate on. It's still 90%-plus Networks and Outcomes overall, so the parts that our business that we're starting to grow or targeting to grow rather continue to do so.

這就是我對它的描述。在大交易方面，一如既往，有大交易，也有小交易。我們的第四季訂單中有超過 680 個單獨交易，涉及超過 280 個客戶，因此我們將繼續在非常廣泛的市場範圍內開展業務。總體而言，網路和成果仍然佔 90% 以上，因此，我們開始成長或規劃成長的業務部分將繼續成長。

Relative to the regulatory environment, it's still very constructive. So clearly, the interest rates are a little bit higher than people were hoping, higher for longer perhaps is a decent way to think about it, but utility commissions are absolutely still approving deals, and we see it as a very constructive environment on a global basis.

相對於監管環境來說，它仍然非常具有建設性。顯然，利率比人們希望的要高一點，或許長期維持高利率是一種不錯的看法，但公用事業委員會仍然在批准交易，我們認為從全球角度來看這是一個非常有建設性的環境。

Thank you. And circling back to the comment you made about a competitive mode, I don't know if it's the word you used, but about applications being written on your network. Could you just talk about that maybe in a little more depth? I assume competitors don't have that. And then just a competitive environment. I know there's a water business for which to be for sale, and there's kind of some turnover at Landis and just how you guys think of the competitive environment.

謝謝。回到您關於競爭模式的評論，我不知道這是否是您使用的詞，而是關於在您的網路上編寫的應用程式。您能否更深入地談論一下這個問題？我認為競爭對手沒有這個。然後就形成了一個競爭環境。我知道有一家水務公司要出售，蘭迪斯也有一些營業額，你們如何看待競爭環境。

So I certainly think we have a pretty substantial lead in the grid edge intelligence in our language, distributed intelligence, downloadable agents and applications into endpoints. I don't think the competition is anywhere close to the 13 million endpoints in the field already landed today. So there are competitors clearly that are talking about these types of capabilities and will of course respect the competition, but we want to play our game and make sure we continue to innovate in the marketplace overall.

因此，我確實認為，在我們的語言、分散式智慧、可下載代理程式和應用程式到端點的網格邊緣智慧方面，我們擁有相當大的領先優勢。我認為，競爭對手遠遠達不到目前該領域已經登陸的 1,300 萬個終端的水平。因此，顯然有競爭對手在談論這些類型的能力，並且當然會尊重競爭，但我們希望發揮我們的作用，並確保我們在整個市場上繼續創新。

So I think that it is good for our customers and good for us and good for our investors when people add incremental applications and use cases on top of the infrastructure that's already landed in the field, and that is a pretty nice scenario for us overall. There is a lot of, I would say, uncertainty in the marketplace with various competition, making changes in their business model as everyone is looking to find ways to be more competitive in the future.

因此，我認為，當人們在已經投入使用的基礎設施上添加增量應用程式和用例時，這對我們的客戶、對我們和我們的投資者都有好處，總的來說，這對我們來說是一個非常好的場景。我想說，市場上存在著許多不確定性，各種競爭都在發生，每個人都在尋找未來更具競爭力的方法，從而改變他們的商業模式。

So spending less time thinking about competition and more time about what we can do to help our customers and grow our business a lot faster.

因此，我們花更少的時間考慮競爭，而花更多的時間考慮如何幫助我們的客戶並更快地發展我們的業務。

Sounds good. Thank you, guys.

聽起來不錯。謝謝你們。

Thanks, Ben.

謝謝，本。

Jeffrey Osborne, TD Cowen.

傑弗裡·奧斯本 (Jeffrey Osborne)，TD Cowen。

Great, excuse me, good morning, just a couple quick ones. Rapid fire here, but on the bookings for '25, Tom, on the book to bill above 1, would you expect a similar back-end loaded nature of the year or a bit more, even spread out throughout the year?

太好了，不好意思，早安，我只想快速問幾個問題。這裡快速射擊，但是關於 25 年的預訂，湯姆，關於 1 以上的預訂出貨比，您是否預計今年會出現類似的後端負載性質或更多，甚至分散到全年？

Yeah, I would say that it is always difficult to predict quarter to quarter as to what things would look like. So right now, I wouldn't necessarily forecast the big hockey stick like we had in '24, but I wouldn't expect it to be perfectly linear quarter to quarter, either. But definitely see a rich pipeline of opportunities and that 1:1 for the year still makes a lot of sense based on what visibility we have today.

是的，我想說，預測每季的情況總是很困難的。因此，現在，我不一定會像 24 年那樣預測曲棍球棒效應，但我也不會期望它每季都呈現完美的線性成長。但確實看到了豐富的機會，並且根據我們今天的可見性，今年的 1:1 仍然很有意義。

Got it. And then just can you articulate, given there may be some tariffs on Mexico? I don't believe you have any notable manufacturing there, but I wasn't sure on supply chain copper, steel enclosures, anything like that that comes from that region. How should we think about it if there is a Mexico tariff for 25% on the impact to you folks?

知道了。那麼，考慮到可能對墨西哥徵收一些關稅，您能否解釋一下？我不相信你們那裡有任何值得注意的製造業，但我不確定供應鏈銅、鋼外殼等任何來自該地區的東西。如果墨西哥徵收 25% 的關稅會對你們產生什麼影響，我們該如何看待？

Yeah, I think it's going to depend on the details as to what it looks like. We definitely are operating with a fair amount of components coming in from Mexico, so that is something that we'd have to watch out for the details on. China isn't a meaningful import market for us. We don't have any meaningful amount of metals in a raw sense coming in, so those aren't necessarily important. But, Mexico, we are mindful as to what that might look like in the quarters ahead.

是的，我認為這取決於它看起來像什麼樣子的細節。我們的營運中確實使用了相當數量的來自墨西哥的零件，因此我們必須注意這方面的細節。中國對我們來說不是一個重要的進口市場。我們並沒有任何有意義的數量的原始金屬進入，所以這些並不一定重要。但是，墨西哥，我們要關注未來幾季的情況。

Sorry, just one last comment I would make there is, we do carry a bit more inventory to try to make sure we're in a position to give us as much supply chain flexibility in the event tariffs could be on again, off again. That is certainly a possibility that we're cognizant of and make sure we plan our supply chain accordingly.

抱歉，我最後想說的一點是，我們確實儲備了更多的庫存，以確保在關稅再次生效或取消的情況下，我們能夠為我們提供盡可能多的供應鏈彈性。我們當然意識到了這種可能性，並確保我們相應地規劃我們的供應鏈。

Got it. That's helpful. And just maybe a quick follow-up on that topic. Have you started any intermediate qualification of alternative suppliers not from that jurisdiction in the event that they're more permanent or not at that point, not at that juncture yet?

知道了。這很有幫助。也許只是對該主題進行快速跟進。您是否已經開始對不屬於該司法管轄區的替代供應商進行任何中級資格審查，以防他們目前還不是那個時候的永久供應商，或者還沒有到那個時候？

Yeah, we do have a very strong multi-sourcing program around the globe. It is, I would say, part of the solution, but it isn't a perfect solution. It takes a bit more engineering, I think, to create a meaningful world. It's just uncertain and it's really hard to make large investments, one way or the other in the current environment.

是的，我們確實有一個非常強大的全球多源採購計劃。我想說，這是解決方案的一部分，但不是完美的解決方案。我認為，創造一個有意義的世界需要更多的工程。這只是不確定的，在當前環境下，無論如何進行大規模投資都非常困難。

Got it. The last one I had, if I could squeeze it in, it's just one of your competitors, it's certainly highlighting outcomes, similar type applications and services as well as a percentage of their revenue. I'm just curious, could you remind us how you folks describe or define services maybe relative to peers?

知道了。我所擁有的最後一個，如果我可以擠進去的話，它只是你的競爭對手之一，它肯定會突出結果，類似類型的應用程式和服務以及他們收入的百分比。我只是好奇，您能否提醒我們一下你們如何描述或定義相對於同行的服務？

I know both parties aren't maybe on the same page as it relates to Network Services, but when you talk about 90% being Networks and Outcomes, is there any type of manage services that you may be including or excluding or they may be including or excluding that makes you folks on different pages as it relates to those metrics that people are reporting?

我知道雙方在網路服務方面可能意見不一致，但是當您談到 90% 是網路和結果時，是否存在您可能包括或排除的任何類型的管理服務，或者他們可能包括或排除哪些服務，導致您在與人們報告的指標相關的方面存在分歧？

Yeah, for our numbers and facts and figures, let me make sure that I'm clear on it. So of the new bookings in Q4 and our total backlog, 90% of that is Networks and Outcomes. So that's the 90%-plus kind of number. Where we run in terms of software and services as a total percentage of revenue is probably in the -- it can vary quarter to quarter, but 15% to 20% overall is software and services.

是的，對於我們的數字、事實和數據，讓我確保我清楚這一點。因此，第四季的新訂單和我們的總積壓訂單中，90%來自網路和成果。所以這個數字是 90% 以上。我們的軟體和服務佔總收入的百分比可能在 - 每個季度都會有所不同，但總體而言，軟體和服務佔比為 15％ 到 20％。

The majority of software and services are indeed in Outcomes, but there is a small slice that oftentimes is in the Networks' P&L. Software and services and Outcomes obviously both have a portion of that revenue which is managed services overall. So I do believe there's probably some differences in terms of what competition classifies in different areas, but I don't know that I can do the accounting for them. I just am clear on what it is for us.

大多數軟體和服務確實都包含在結果中，但一小部分通常包含在網路的損益表中。軟體和服務以及成果顯然都佔有一部分收入，即整體託管服務收入。因此我確實相信不同地區的競爭分類可能存在一些差異，但我不知道我能否對這些差異進行解釋。我只是清楚這對我們來說意味著什麼。

Appreciate it. That's all I have. Thank you.

非常感謝。這就是我所擁有的一切。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Moses Sutton, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的摩西·薩頓。

Hi, this is Joe Nussbaum on for Moses Sutton. Congrats on the quarter. How should we think about lumpiness for outcome's margins into '25 as the business continues to ramp? This quarter moves a complete proof closer to your '27 targets, but just trying to get a near-term picture as your recurring base builds and how one of services will continue to impact lumpiness?

大家好，我是 Joe Nussbaum，取代 Moses Sutton 發言。恭喜本季取得佳績。隨著業務的持續成長，我們該如何看待 25 年結果利潤率的波動？本季將向您的 27 個目標邁出完整的一步，但只是想了解一下您的經常性基礎建設的近期情況，以及其中一項服務將如何繼續影響不平衡性？

Yeah, if I think about the full year, I would certainly expect outcomes gross margins to increase versus the full year '24. But given the kind of the subscale nature we've talked about, you're going to have variability from quarter to quarter. So we did have a lot of one-time license revenue in Q4, which allowed us to get to the 44%. I caution you not to think that's the new baseline that we go off of. It's going to continue to be lumpy, but again, for the full year, I would expect outcomes to continue to improve their gross margin percent.

是的，如果我考慮全年，我肯定會預期結果毛利率會比 24 年全年增加。但考慮到我們所討論的子量表的性質，每季都會有所不同。因此，我們在第四季度確實有很多一次性授權收入，這使我們達到了 44%。我提醒你不要認為這是我們所依據的新基準。雖然情況會繼續不穩定，但就全年而言，我預計毛利率百分比將繼續提高。

Martin Malloy, Johnson Rice & Company.

馬丁‧馬洛伊 (Martin Malloy)，約翰遜賴斯公司 (Johnson Rice & Company)。

Good morning. Congratulations on the strong year you put together. Wanted to ask the first question, if you could maybe give us an update on the partnerships you've got with companies like GE Vernova and ABB, and how those are progressing?

早安.恭喜你們度過了輝煌的一年。想問第一個問題，您能否向我們介紹一下您與 GE Vernova 和 ABB 等公司建立的合作關係的最新情況，以及這些合作的進展？

Sure, they are in the stage that is, I will call them pilots with customers today, so a lead customer really starting to think about how to use the technology. We want to make sure we've got the platforms from both of the partners wired together properly to be able to help the customer. So not yet in a stage where it is generating revenue through the P&L, but certainly strong interest on the part of customers.

當然，他們正處於這個階段，我今天將他們稱為與客戶一起進行試點的階段，因此主要客戶真正開始思考如何使用這項技術。我們希望確保雙方合作夥伴的平台能夠正確連接在一起，以便能夠為客戶提供協助。因此，它尚未達到透過損益表產生收入的階段，但客戶肯定對此有濃厚的興趣。

The thesis behind those partnerships very much is to help our customers absorb new technology faster, and we definitely continue to get strong customer feedback that this is one of the helpful ways we can do that. And we continue to work closely with various partnerships, GE Vernova, Schneider, Microsoft, Mobility House, VODA.ai are just a couple of them that are top of mind as I answer your question.

這些合作關係背後的宗旨是幫助我們的客戶更快地吸收新技術，我們肯定會繼續收到強烈的客戶回饋，這是我們能夠做到這一點的有用方法之一。我們繼續與各種合作夥伴密切合作，GE Vernova、施耐德、微軟、Mobility House、VODA.ai 只是我在回答您的問題時首先想到的幾個。

Okay, and thank you for that. And then follow-up question, I want to ask about the LUMA press release from December, if you can give us any more color there in terms of what's gone in the backlog, maybe timing of installation?

好的，謝謝你。然後是後續問題，我想問一下 12 月份的 LUMA 新聞稿，您是否可以提供更多關於積壓工作進展的詳細信息，例如安裝時間？

Sure, very pleased to support LUMA, PREPA in the modernization of their distribution grid. That is an important project to improve the resiliency and reliability of the electrical service on the island. It is our full grid edge intelligence platform, so it's got strong content for both Networks and Outcomes in it. The project's really just getting started, so I think most of the revenue is in the years ahead rather than something that is immediately a big pop for 2025.

當然，非常高興能夠支援 LUMA、PREPA 實現配電網的現代化。這是提高島上電力服務彈性和可靠性的重要項目。它是我們的全電網邊緣智慧平台，因此它包含有關網路和結果的豐富內容。這個項目實際上才剛剛開始，所以我認為大部分收入將在未來幾年內實現，而不是在 2025 年立即大幅成長。

So think of it as a probably a three- to four-year project overall and it'll roll out in that typical timeframe.

因此，可以將其視為一個總體可能需要三到四年的項目，並且它將在典型的時間範圍內推出。

Great, thank you. I'll turn it back.

太好了，謝謝。我會把它轉回去。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Chip Moore, Roth Capital Partners.

羅斯資本合夥公司的奇普摩爾 (Chip Moore)。

Morning. Thanks for taking the question. I wanted to ask one on just the outlook for 2025. You factored in the backend loaded bookings last year and I think you called out some conservatism around the European water meter business. Just maybe help us think about the biggest risks to that out outlook and then what you think you could drive better than expected results?

早晨。感謝您回答這個問題。我只想問一個關於 2025 年前景的問題。您考慮到了去年的後端預訂量，我認為您呼籲歐洲水錶業務採取一些保守態度。也許可以幫助我們思考這種前景面臨的最大風險，然後您認為如何才能達到比預期更好的結果？

Yeah, just to give a little bit more color, again, I'd caution you not just to look at the flat year over year. You really do have to normalize '24 for the catch-up revenue, so it gets you to about 6% growth. Within our segments, I would expect devices to probably be down year over year. They had an unusually strong '24 with water and as Tom said, we're being cautious there because certainly, the economies in Europe are suffering a little bit.

是的，為了提供更多的信息，我再次提醒您，不要只看同比持平的情況。你確實必須將 24 年標準化以獲得追趕收入，這樣才能實現約 6% 的成長。在我們的細分市場中，我預計設備數量可能會逐年下降。他們的 24 年水災異常嚴重，正如湯姆所說，我們對此持謹慎態度，因為歐洲的經濟確實受到了一些影響。

Networks, I would expect to be flat to very, very low growth because of the catch-up. That's really all Networks revenue that came in '24, the $125 million. And as Tom indicated, we expect Outcomes to have another strong year. I don't know that there's a lot of risk to the top line. As we mentioned in the earnings outlook is -- we haven't assumed any new trade policies. So again, to the extent that really happens, we'll update accordingly, but that would probably be the biggest risk is if the macro trade environment gives us a big headwind.

由於追趕，我預計網路的成長將持平或非常非常低。這實際上是 24 年網路公司的全部收入，即 1.25 億美元。正如湯姆所說，我們預計 Outcomes 將迎來強勁的一年。我不知道營業收入是否有很大的風險。正如我們在獲利展望中所提到的——我們沒有假設任何新的貿易政策。因此，如果這種情況真的發生，我們會進行相應的更新，但這可能是最大的風險，即宏觀貿易環境是否會為我們帶來巨大的阻力。

Very helpful, Joan. And maybe just a follow-up on margins and trajectory on those 2027 targets. You just completed some cost actions, I think, at the end of last year. Just kind of revisit those and how you think about that path? Thanks.

非常有幫助，瓊。或許只是對 2027 年目標的利潤和軌跡進行追蹤。我認為，你們在去年年底剛完成了一些成本行動。只是重新回顧一下這些以及您對這條道路的看法？謝謝。

Yeah, I mean, I think we're in a good place relative to our trajectory to get to 2027. Again, the top line, at the time we did it off 23% actuals and it was a 5% to 7% revenue CAGR from 23% to 27%. Well, if you update for the strong '24 and the guidance I just gave for '25, you really just need something like 3% to 7% range to get to 27%, so we're well on our way. No issues in my view of hitting the topline targets.

是的，我的意思是，我認為相對於我們到 2027 年的發展軌跡，我們處於一個很好的位置。再次強調，當時我們的實際收入為 23%，而收入複合年增長率為 5% 至 7%，即從 23% 到 27%。好吧，如果你更新強勁的 24 年和我剛剛給出的 25 年指導，你實際上只需要 3% 到 7% 的範圍就可以達到 27%，所以我們已經在路上了。我認為實現營收目標沒有問題。

Also, we're doing really good, I think, on hitting the increased profile for gross margin and free cash flow generation. So not too worried about hitting those targets as well. I caution everybody to try not to accelerate them into an earlier year. Let us continue to see how things evolve.

此外，我認為我們在提高毛利率和自由現金流方面做得非常好。因此也不必太擔心能否達到這些目標。我告誡大家，盡量不要讓他們提前進入年初。讓我們繼續觀察事態如何發展。

As you mentioned, we did shut two factories down at the tail end of 2024. In aggregate that's maybe $10 million of cost savings, 2025 over '24, and then there is still a little bit of the backlog that has -- does not have indexation in it, so that's maybe a headwind going the other way. But as I mentioned in the earlier question, I do expect gross margin to improve year over year and get us on the pathway towards the '27 targets.

正如您所說，我們確實在 2024 年底關閉了兩家工廠。總的來說，到 2025 年，與 2024 年相比，這可能意味著節省 1000 萬美元的成本，而且仍有一些積壓訂單沒有納入索引，所以這可能是一個不利因素。但正如我在之前的問題中提到的那樣，我確實預計毛利率會逐年提高，並使我們走上實現「27 個目標」的道路。

Perfect. Appreciate it. Thanks.

完美的。非常感謝。謝謝。

Andrew Steinhardt, Canaccord Genuity.

Canaccord Genuity 的 Andrew Steinhardt。

Good morning. You have Andrew on for Austin Moeller. Thanks for taking the questions. Just first here with the record quarterly bookings in mind and the regulatory delays mentioned in previous quarters. It appears the approval process ended given the $1.4 billion in bookings this quarter. In terms of the revenue recognition from these contracts, do you still see these deals flowing through the P&L in the second half of the year? I think you mentioned maybe 2026, so if you could provide some color there, I'd appreciate it.

早安.安德魯 (Andrew) 取代奧斯汀莫勒 (Austin Moeller)。感謝您回答這些問題。首先要考慮創紀錄的季度預訂量以及前幾季提到的監管延遲。鑑於本季的預訂金額達到 14 億美元，審批流程似乎已經結束。就這些合約的收入確認而言，您是否仍認為這些交易會在下半年流入損益表？我想您提到可能是 2026 年，所以如果您能提供一些具體信息，我將不勝感激。

Yeah, just let me reiterate what I said in the prepared comments is our typical kind of bookings to starting the revenue is 9 to 12 months. So that's why the high end, 52% I think of our 2024 annual bookings came in Q4. And so as we've been signaling for the last several quarters, we didn't expect much of that to come into revenue in '25. So 9 to 12 months is sort of that timeframe in terms of getting the revenue started.

是的，讓我重申我在準備好的評論中所說的內容，我們的典型預訂到開始收入的時間是 9 到 12 個月。所以，我認為 2024 年年度預訂量的高端（52%）出現在第四季。因此，正如我們在過去幾季中一直暗示的那樣，我們預計其中的大部分不會轉化為 25 年的收入。因此，就開始產生收入而言，9 到 12 個月是一個時間範圍。

And then typically within a project, there's a start and then kind of increases over time and then kind of goes down. So we took all that into account in the 2025 revenue guidance and if you look at the CAGR required off the -- as I just mentioned to get from the '25 targets to 27%, it's 3% to 7% off 25% so we expect growth to accelerate again in '26 and '27.

然後通常在一個專案中，有一個開始，然後隨著時間的推移而增加，然後下降。因此，我們在 2025 年收入指引中將所有這些都考慮在內，如果你看一下所需的複合年增長率——正如我剛才提到的，要從 25 年的目標達到 27%，需要從 25% 增長 3% 到 7%，所以我們預計增長將在 26 年和 27 年再次加速。

Got it, thank you. And just to follow up, just looking at the $1.4 billion in bookings this quarter again, removing the billion dollars in bookings that were going through that regulatory approval process over the past couple of quarters, for the year, the business did like $425 million per quarter in bookings. Is this cadence that could be expected in 2025, or how should we be thinking about that?

知道了，謝謝。接下來，我們再看一下本季 14 億美元的訂單，除去過去幾季經過監管審批程序的 10 億美元訂單，全年來看，該業務每季的訂單金額約為 4.25 億美元。這個節奏是否可以在 2025 年預期，或者我們應該如何考慮它？

Yeah, the bookings will be a little bit lumpy quarter to quarter, so it's very difficult given that the bookings discipline we use for us to call it down to an exact quarter as to when something will happen. So I would brace you for a little bit of lumpiness quarter to quarter, but I would not expect it to be quite as much of a hockey stick, everything waiting until Q4 to book this year.

是的，每季的預訂量都會有點波動，因此，考慮到我們所採用的預訂紀律，很難將某件事發生的確切季度精確到某個季度。因此，我預計季度間會出現一些波動，但預計波動不會像曲棍球棒那樣劇烈，所有事情都要等到今年第四季才能完成預訂。

So a little bit flatter kind of profile, but in total I would expect it to be a book to bill of 1:1 or greater for the year. So if our outlook on revenue is $2.4 billion to $2.5 billion kind of range, you can do the math on what the bookings really ought to be and go from there.

因此，這種概況有點平淡，但總的來說，我預計今年的書籍出貨比將達到 1:1 或更高。因此，如果我們對收入的預期是 24 億美元到 25 億美元之間，那麼您可以計算出實際的預訂量，並從那裡開始。

Got it, thank you. And if I could just squeeze one more in, just looking at Q1 '25, has there been any uptick in demand for endpoints and grid edge intelligence in California in the aftermath of the wildfires?

知道了，謝謝。如果我可以再多問一點的話，就 2025 年第一季而言，在野火發生後，加州對端點和電網邊緣智慧的需求是否增加？

Certainly, the California wildfires was a very tragic situation and our hearts go out to everybody that's been affected by that. The technology that we provide our customers is absolutely helpful in dealing with all sorts of environmental impacts, whether it's floods or fires or hurricanes. It doesn't really matter. You've got to have better visibility out at the edge of the grid and that's clearly what we're working with our customers on across the country, including up and down the coast in California.

毫無疑問，加州野火是一場非常悲慘的事件，我們對所有受到影響的人表示深切慰問。我們為客戶提供的技術對於應對各種環境影響絕對有幫助，無論是洪水、火災或颶風。這其實並不重要。你必須在電網邊緣有更好的可視性，這顯然是我們與全國各地客戶合作的目標，包括加州沿海地區。

A lot of our wildfire mitigation technology was originally developed with Northern California, PG&E, quite honestly, in mind, and I think we've got room to grow in wildfire prone areas to deploy that technology more widely.

坦白說，我們的許多野火緩解技術最初都是為北加州的 PG&E 開發的，我認為我們在野火多發地區還有發展空間，可以更廣泛地部署這些技術。

Got it. Thank you so much.

知道了。太感謝了。

(Operator Instructions) Scott Graham, Seaport Research Partners.

（操作員指示）斯科特·格雷厄姆，海港研究合作夥伴。

Yeah, hi, good morning. Thanks for taking the question. I actually have two or three questions. The operating expenses that were a little bit higher in the two segments, what was that about? Is it that you just kind of saw that maybe you had a better-than-expected quarter underway and then maybe spend some money in December to spend some of that off?

是的，你好，早安。感謝您回答這個問題。我其實有兩三個問題。這兩個部門的營運費用略高一些，這是怎麼回事？是不是你只是看到本季度的業績可能好於預期，然後可能在 12 月份花一些錢來抵消一部分損失？

Not really. Again, we monitor our expenses throughout the year and sometimes the timing of whether it's outside services or some of the investments are both our corporate team and our segments are making, they can go through the year. So we focus more on the annual level of spending for the segments and if I look across the company, we ended up at 22.7% of revenue which is right within that range of 22% to 23% that we've been targeting.

並不真地。再次，我們全年都會監控我們的開支，有時無論是外部服務還是一些投資的時間都是由我們的公司團隊和部門進行的，他們可以全年進行。因此，我們更加關注各部門的年度支出水平，如果縱觀整個公司，我們最終的收入為 22.7%，正好在我們一直追求的 22% 至 23% 的範圍內。

Yes, thank you. The other question is simply kind of about the environment where obviously, the power stocks, if you will, the industrial companies that service in some way direct or indirect the data center markets, and obviously with the DeepSeek news 1.5 month ago, cheaper AI, more cooler burning, call it AI.

是的，謝謝。另一個問題只是關於環境的問題，顯然，電力股，如果你願意的話，以某種方式直接或間接服務於數據中心市場的工業公司，顯然隨著一個半月前的 DeepSeek 新聞，更便宜的人工智能，更冷卻的燃燒，稱之為人工智能。

There's been a lot of speculation about utilities rolling back their load capital spending needs in years ahead. Obviously, I'm not talking about right now, but are you hearing anything from your customers? You have so many of them, you serve such a wide base of electric utilities out there. Are you hearing them talk about maybe the need to roll some things back in light of this product?

有很多猜測稱，未來幾年公用事業公司將減少其負載資本支出需求。顯然，我現在不是在談論這個，但是你聽到客戶有什麼反應嗎？你們擁有如此多的電力公司，為如此廣泛的電力公司提供服務。您是否聽到他們談論可能需要根據該產品回滾某些內容？

Not at all, no. So we haven't seen any trends in that direction at all. The amount of -- if I just use electricity as the poster child here, the amount of electricity growth is dramatic over the next years. We need 40% more by 2040, 50% more by 2050. That is a very strong trend. That growth is certainly driven by multiple factors. It's driven by AI data centers as you noticed, but it's also driven by reshoring of manufacturing. So I would say alive and well and no change.

一點也不，不。所以我們根本沒有看到任何朝這個方向發展的趨勢。如果我僅以電力作為典型代表，那麼未來幾年電力的成長將是驚人的。到 2040 年我們需要增加 40%，到 2050 年我們需要增加 50%。這是一個非常強勁的趨勢。這種成長肯定是由多種因素推動的。正如您所注意到的，它是由人工智慧資料中心驅動的，但它也是由製造業回流驅動的。所以我想說，活得好好的，沒有改變。

Utilities are very much struggling to keep up with the demand increase and find out a way to deal with it. So quarter to quarter, ebb and flow is a long-term trajectory and building infrastructure takes a long time, so alive and well, and I don't expect that to change in the quarters and years ahead.

公用事業公司正在竭盡全力滿足日益增長的需求並尋找應對方法。因此，季度復一季度，起伏是一個長期軌跡，建設基礎設施需要很長時間，因此要保持活力和健康，我預計這種情況在未來幾個季度和幾年內不會發生變化。

That's helpful. Thanks, Tom.

這很有幫助。謝謝，湯姆。

Kashy Harrison, Piper Sandler.

卡西·哈里森、派珀·桑德勒。

Good morning, everybody. Thanks for taking the question and congrats on the results and the 2024 commercial momentum. So my first question is on the guidance. The 12-month backlog was down, call it 10%-ish year over year, but you're guiding the flat revs, which suggests maybe perhaps more projects that you expect to book and ship in '25 than '24, or maybe some other factor at play.

大家早安。感謝您回答這個問題，並祝賀取得的成果和 2024 年的商業動能。我的第一個問題是關於指導。12 個月的積壓訂單有所下降，同比下降了 10% 左右，但您指導的轉速持平，這意味著您預計 25 年預訂和發貨的項目可能比 24 年多，或者可能有其他因素在起作用。

I was wondering if you could just help us unpack what drives that? What's behind that and what you're seeing in the market that gives you the confidence that you can have flat revenues with a lower 12-month backlog this year?

我想知道您是否能幫助我們解開這個謎團的驅動因素？這背後的原因是什麼？您在市場上看到了什麼？讓您有信心今年的收入能夠持平，並且 12 個月的積壓訂單量會減少？

I was going to say we have quite a bit of visibility by customers. So again, part of the reason the 12 month is so lower compared to the bookings we have for the quarter is what I mentioned, which is they're very backend loaded in much of the Q4 bookings. We are not expecting in revenue in the next 12 months. So therefore, they're in the post 12 months piece of the backlog. So yes, there is some element of kind of book and ship in the fiscal year, but we're confident with the outlook that we gave in terms of seeing the pipeline and understanding the current timing of projects.

我想說的是，我們對客戶的了解相當多。因此，再次強調，12 個月的預訂量與我們本季的預訂量相比如此之低的原因之一就是我提到的，即他們在第四季度的大部分預訂中都承擔了後端負載。我們預計未來 12 個月不會有收入。因此，他們處於 12 個月後的積壓狀態。所以是的，本財政年度確實存在一些預訂和發貨的因素，但我們對我們給出的前景充滿信心，因為我們看到了項目管道並了解了項目的當前時間表。

Yeah, and I think it's also important that you look at the catch-up revenue. So December 31, 2024, was higher 12-month backlog by that $125 million or so compared to where we stand today. So there's a little bit of that 12-month backlog was up slightly from Q3 to Q4. So the visibility that Joan talked about is exactly what we note and how we see our customers rolling things out.

是的，我認為專注於補繳收入也很重要。因此，與目前的情況相比，2024 年 12 月 31 日的 12 個月積壓訂單將高出約 1.25 億美元。因此，從第三季到第四季度，12 個月的積壓訂單量略有增加。因此，瓊談到的可見性正是我們注意到的，也是我們看到客戶推出產品的方式。

That 12-month backlog is also very much based on what customers are forecasting in terms of their project deployment timeframes so it can move up and down depending on how projects are progressing through the installation and development phase in their profiles as well.

這 12 個月的積壓訂單很大程度上也取決於客戶對專案部署時間框架的預測，因此它可能會根據專案在安裝和開發階段的進展而上下波動。

Got it. Appreciate the commentary there. And then on the bookings front, Tom, I know you indicated the book to bill above 1. Wondering if I could help us -- or if you could help us maybe refine that a little? Do you think that you can build on the $2.7 billion last year in '25? So would the book to bill -- would the bookings on an absolute basis be up year over year, just because more than one is a very wide range?

知道了。感謝那裡的評論。然後在預訂方面，湯姆，我知道你在 1 號上面指出了預訂賬單。想知道我是否可以幫助我們——或者您可以幫助我們稍微改進一下？您認為 2025 年您能在去年 27 億美元的基礎上再接再厲嗎？那麼，訂單出貨比——絕對訂單量是否會逐年增加，只是因為範圍很廣嗎？

And then as it pertains to all the business that you won in '24, just curious how much of that is market growth versus market share gains? Maybe if you could talk about win rates, that would also be helpful.

然後，就您在 24 年贏得的所有業務而言，我只是好奇其中有多少是市場成長與市場佔有率成長？也許如果您能談論勝率，那也會有所幫助。

Sure. So book to bill of 1:1 or greater is still about as good an estimate as we can give you today. It becomes very difficult to predict exact regulatory cycles and things beyond that point. So if our outlook on revenue is $2.4 billion to $2.5 billion, that gives you some sense of where the bookings number would be, so I don't want to hazard a guess of year-over-year bookings at this point. As we progress through the year, it'll become much more clear as to what the pace of wins really would look like.

當然。因此，訂單出貨比為 1:1 或更高仍然是我們今天可以給您的最佳估計。預測確切的監管週期以及此後的事情變得非常困難。因此，如果我們對收入的預期是 24 億美元至 25 億美元，那麼您就可以大致了解預訂量是多少，因此我現在不想冒險猜測同比預訂量。隨著一年的進展，我們將會更清楚地了解勝利的速度到底是什麼樣的。

On the notion of share gains and win-loss ratios, we definitely see strong take-up of our portfolio [offerings] certainly in the electricity space, the need for better visibility and control out at the edge of the grid, the need for agile infrastructure is fueling a very nice pipeline of opportunities and a strong win rate for us. So I think in the -- certainly in the electricity, in the gas space, there's probably a little bit of share shift there, but very reflective of the strength of the portfolio and fueled by the growth in the marketplace.

就份額收益和勝負比而言，我們確實看到我們的投資組合（產品）在電力領域獲得了強勁的接受，對電網邊緣更好的可視性和控制的需求，對敏捷基礎設施的需求正在為我們帶來非常好的機會和強勁的勝率。所以我認為，在電力、天然氣領域，可能會出現一些份額變化，但這非常能反映投資組合的實力，並受到市場成長的推動。

That's helpful. Thank you. If I could just maybe sneak one more in, just a question on trade. Understanding that you have a natural inventory buffer that you've been working on for I think over a year now, so that gives you a little bit of cushion, but I'm just curious how quickly can you pass on any tariffs to your customers? And then, are there any sensitivities that you can give us that would help us think about risk from Mexico to gross margins?

這很有幫助。謝謝。如果我可以再偷偷問一個問題，那隻是一個關於貿易的問題。據我了解，你們擁有自然庫存緩衝，而且你們已經為此努力了一年多，所以這給了你們一點緩衝，但我只是好奇你們能多快將關稅轉嫁給你們的客戶？然後，您能否提供一些敏感性因素來幫助我們考慮墨西哥對毛利率的風險？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah, on the notion of pricing, and what we do with customers, clearly, we want to be responsible business people and help our customers in both directions. So the ability to pass on costs, it very much depends on the fact patterns and the specifics overall. It's difficult to forecast in the absence of any real details of what the tariff regime may look like.

是的，關於定價的概念，以及我們如何對待客戶，顯然，我們希望成為負責任的商人，並雙向幫助我們的客戶。因此，轉嫁成本的能力很大程度取決於事實模式和整體具體情況。由於缺乏關稅制度的具體細節，很難預測其未來走向。

What I would say is that it's very clear that the customers need to improve their grid performance, their resiliency and reliability, and that doesn't change based on the trade policy in place. It certainly could alter the timing and pace of projects in a capital constrained world that exists, but I don't think it ultimately changes the destination overall.

我想說的是，很明顯客戶需要提高電網性能、彈性和可靠性，而且這不會根據現有的貿易政策而改變。在資本受限的世界中，它當然可以改變專案的時間和速度，但我認為它最終不會改變整體目標。

We've got strong support in the administration for grid resiliency and reliability. You heard that from Secretary Wright during his confirmation testimony of grid resiliency is fundamentally important, and I think that's something that is important for the country and important for a larger reshoring strategy.

我們在電網彈性和可靠性方面得到了政府的大力支持。大家聽到賴特部長在他的確認證詞中提到電網彈性至關重要，我認為這對國家和更大的回流戰略都很重要。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. And there are no further questions in the queue at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Mr. Tom Deitrich for any closing remarks.

謝謝。目前隊列中沒有其他問題。現在我將把電話轉回給湯姆·迪特里希先生，請他做最後發言。

I thank you all for joining our call today. We look forward to updating everyone after Q1. Until then, thanks.

感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。我們期待在第一季之後向大家更新最新情況。到那時為止，謝謝。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for participating, and you may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的參與，現在您可以斷開連線了。