Inuvo Inc (INUV) 2004 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the FindWhat.com Second Quarter Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. (Caller instructions.) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Ms. Karen Yagnesak, Vice-President of Marketing and Communications for FindWhat.com. Thank you. You may begin.

Good afternoon, and welcome to FindWhat.com’s conference call pertaining to second quarter 2004 earnings. Speaking on behalf of FindWhat.com today are Craig Pisaris-Henderson, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Phillip Thune, President and Chief Operating Officer; and Brenda Agius, Chief Financial Officer.

I’d like to remind everyone that today’s comments will include forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results and events to differ materially. These risks and uncertainties will be discussed towards the end of this conference call, and are also detailed in FindWhat.com’s filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

To comply with the SEC’s guidance on fair and open disclosure, we have made this conference call publicly available via webcast at http://www.vcall.com\tetage.asp?id=88773. And a reply of the conference call will be available at that same URL, and on the Company Web site for 90 days after the call. I’d now like to turn the call over to Craig Pisaris-Henderson.

Thank you Karen. And welcome to FindWhat.com’s Q2 2004 conference call. Q2 was marked with several major milestones for FindWhat.com. At the top of the list was our record setting top line revenue, with Q2 representing our 19th consecutive quarter of sequential revenue growth. This matches well with our record setting pre-tax income, with Q2 representing our 13th consecutive quarter of sequential pre-tax income growth.

The consistency with which our team has performed has been exemplary, and further demonstrates our team’s ability to execute on our vision of building a robust, diversified and global marketing company. Additionally, Q2 was marked by our third acquisition, B&B Advertising.

This acquisition expands the depth of services we can offer to small/medium sized distribution partners. B&B’s automation technology allows us to work efficiently, with partners that require more individual support than those services offered by our core FindWhat and Espotting divisions. This will allow us to cost effectively reach further into the large number of small sites, targeting vertical markets, where traffic volume may be lower, but traffic quality is very high.

In a moment, Brenda will walk through the financial details, with Phil following with operational details. I’d like to take a moment to further define the strategic direction and structure FindWhat.com is developing, as we have now executed on many of the initiatives that define our future.

Over the past few quarters, as we’ve announced new relationships and restructured the Company’s internal operational architecture, we have been assembling many of the key components we need to build out our find, get, keep strategy on a global basis. As a reminder, our intention is to help global online businesses find high quality sales prospects, get those prospects to convert into customers, and to keep those customers coming back through retention-based marketing efforts.

At the close of 2003, FindWhat.com consisted of one operating division, with one core product, in one market, run by 161 team members. Today, just seven months later, FindWhat.com has four divisions, a diversified product line, operations in ten countries on three continents, and approximately 440 team members globally. This expanded description includes Q3 accomplishments, such as the closing of the Espotting transaction, the launch of ThomasB2B.com, our joint venture with Thomas Global Register, and the launch of [List Top] [ph], our partnership with Mitsui for the Japanese markets.

And while we enjoy strong relationships with some of the largest online advertisers, we have continued to focus on acquiring or building products and services that deliver maximum value to mid-tier advertisers and distribution partners. Simultaneously, we’ve launched in new markets, by partnering with some of the world’s most elite companies, to further expand our global presence in vertical market product offerings.

If one were to try to summarize what all of these accomplishments represented in a short statement, it would read as follows. FindWhat.com is one of three companies in our sector with a global footprint, that has the ability to acquire or build services, and then integrate and deploy those services in the major e-commerce markets worldwide.

FindWhat.com is one of the two companies that help advertisers of all sizes establish an online presence and market themselves effectively, with intuitive, easy to use tools. FindWhat.com is the only company to identify high potential new markets, and then partner with the strongest player in each market. Examples include Thomas Global Register for the B2B marketplace, Mitsui and Co. for the Japanese markets, and Verizon for the U.S. local markets.

This strategy of partnering with the best companies in their respective vertical markets gives FindWhat.com the ability to leverage each partners’ core strengths, with FindWhat.com’s industry leading technical and service offerings. While there is still much to do in 2004 to integrate the aforementioned services globally, we are keenly aware of other opportunities that fit within our find, get, keep strategy that would be valuable to our customers, and further strengthen our position in the marketplace.

That said, as we move forward on integrating our services and looking into new opportunities, we will continue to be clear in our objectives, prudent in our decisions, and highly efficient in our executions. We are optimistic about the marketplace, and our position in it, and will continue to move aggressively on all fronts. I will now turn the call over to Brenda, for a financial overview. Brenda?

Thank you Craig. I am pleased to report that FindWhat.com realized record revenue in Q2 2004 of $27.8m. This represents a 59% year over year increase from Q2 2003’s revenue of approximately $17.5m, and also represents our 19th consecutive quarter of sequential revenue growth. It is important to note that revenue for Q2 2004 included a full quarter of Miva® and Comet Systems, Inc., and a partial quarter of B&B Advertising, whose assets we acquired on June 4, 2004.

For reference purposes, Miva®, Comet Systems and B&B combined contributed less than $4m to the consolidated Q2 2004 revenue. Note that the operations of Miva®, Comet and B&B are being integrated with FindWhat.com. Accordingly, their future standalone impacts may be difficult to isolate. And it will be increasingly less relevant to isolate their results.

With revenue growth out of the way, let’s visit how we measure our financial performance. In addition to GAAP measurements, the Company utilizes three profitability-based metrics to evaluate our period to period and year over year performance. They are EBITDA, adjusted pre-tax income, and adjusted pre-tax income per diluted share.

We began using these metrics in Q1, after our first acquisition. We believe these metrics fairly present our performance, as they eliminate non-cash charges to amortization expense related to acquired intangible assets. EBITDA is defined as earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. And adjusted pre-tax income is defined as GAAP pre-tax income, plus amortization expense.

Now let’s discuss how well we did in Q2 2004. We realized approximately $7.6m in EBITDA, which represents a 63% increase over Q2 2003’s EBITDA of $4.7m. Our adjusted pre-tax income in Q2 2004 was approximately $7m, or $0.28 per diluted share. This represents an increase of 62% over Q2 2003’s adjusted pre-tax income of $4.4m or $0.20 per diluted share.

Turning now to our Q2 2004 EBITDA margins, you will note that our EBITDA margins in Q2 2004 were 28%, roughly equal to our margins in Q1 2004. It is important to note that our Q2 results did not include any contribution from Espotting, given that our merger closed on July 1. Excluding certain items, charges and benefits that in our view are either one-time in nature, or are not expected to continue after the closing, Espotting generated over $2m in EBITDA on revenue of approximately $27.5m in Q2 2004, which represents less than a 10% EBITDA margin.

As we integrate Espotting into our business, we believe our consolidated EBITDA margins will average 16% in Q3 and in Q4. However, we continue to expect that we can drive EBITDA margins back to 20% or greater by the second half of 2005, as we begin to realize the benefits of our 2004 initiative.

Turning to our balance sheet, cash and cash equivalents at June 30 were approximately $54m, with very little long-term debt. As mentioned earlier, we closed on our merger with Espotting on July 1, which required cash for both purchased consideration and closing costs. We believe we will continue to generate positive cash flow from operations. So we would anticipate our cash balances to rise going forward, assuming we do not enter into any new strategic transactions.

We continue to have available a $10m line of credit, which, as of today, remains untouched. Finally, I would like to highlight the remainder of what we anticipate for 2004. As previously announced in our July 1 press release, we are moving to a range of expectations for the remaining quarters and full year 2004 results. We feel it is appropriate to shift to a range, based on the increased scope of our operations, and the number of strategic growth initiatives.

It is important to note that the ranges reflect current exchange rates. We currently estimate that our 2004 revenue will be between $167m and $180m, versus 2003’s revenue of $72.2m. EBITDA for the full year 2004 is expected to be between $33.4m and $35.4m, versus 2003 EBITDA of $20m.

Adjusted pre-tax income per diluted share is expected to be between $1.05 and $1.13, which assumes 29.1m average shares outstanding. This concludes the Q2 2004 financial highlights. I will now turn the call over to Phillip.

Thank you Brenda. We’ve had a very active year to date. And it may be worthwhile to review the significant transformation of our business from last year to today. As Craig noted, on 12/31/2003, we had 161 members of our team, in two offices, in Florida and New York, covering the U.S. marketplace. Today we number around 440, in 13 offices, handling operations in ten countries, on three continents.

We also now have exposure to the local U.S. market, with our private label with Verizon Super Pages, and to the global industrial B2B marketplace, through our JV with Thomas Global. In the second half of 2003, we generated $39m in revenue, and $11m in EBITDA. Today we are forecasting revenue of at least $115m for the second half of 2004, with approximately $20m in EBITDA.

In 2003, our top five distribution partners represented approximately 45% of our revenue. We believe that on a consolidated basis our top five distribution partners will represent less than 25% of our revenue going forward. In 2003, we managed active relationships with approximately 25,000 online businesses. Today that figure is over 60,000, representing both increased diversification and great opportunities to cross-promote our various services.

Perhaps most importantly, in 2004 we have executed on this transformation on schedule, and per our stated expectations. Every day has a rational, strategic place in the combined company. And on a combined basis, we now expect our operations to deliver between 5% and 13% greater adjusted pre-tax earnings per share than we did in early February, when we initially gave 2004 projections.

Let me state that again. In six months, we have transformed our business, with far greater diversification and opportunities for growth. And, if our projections are accurate, we’ve done it in an accretive manner.

Let me now comment on revenue trends in the first half of the year. Revenue from the two divisions that we have owned since January 1, the FindWhat.com Network™/Private Label division, and our Merchant Services division, was basically flat from Q1 to Q2. Meanwhile, Espotting’s revenue declined from Q1 to Q2. In both cases, this was the result of a very strong January, which we believe skewed the comparison between Q1 and Q2.

While both our revenue and Espotting’s revenue in April was down versus January, by June revenue was increasing. And we believe that every one of our divisions can grow revenue from Q2 to Q3, despite the seasonal softness typical in the summer months, when individual Internet usage usually declines. In part, this revenue growth will come from executing on opportunities created by the four transactions we have completed this year.

While some opportunities will take time and resources to develop and implement, others, like sharing contacts and cross-promoting our services, already are having an impact. In fact, one of our biggest challenges is evaluating all of the opportunities we see, prioritizing which are the best ones, with the largest potential impact, and balancing the amount we need to invest to bring them to fruition.

In summary, we feel like we are operating according to our expectations, and that we have achieved tremendous progress this year, providing the company with greater resources, diversification, and opportunities than ever before. We believe these efforts will be rewarded over time. And we look forward to reporting on our continued development. Now let me turn it back to Craig.

Thank you Phil. Again, I would like to thank all of you for attending our Q2 2004 conference call, and again thank all of our team members for their 100% in attitudes, and efforts, in making FindWhat.com a global leader. At this point, we’ll turn the call over to the Operator for the q-and-a session.

(Caller instructions.) Our first question will be coming from Tom Underwood with Legg Mason. Mr. Underwood, please state your question.

Yes, thanks a lot Craig, Phil, Brenda. A couple of questions. One, I just was wondering in terms of the metrics that you provided, the pro forma paid click-throughs and active relationships, if you could give us some indication of what those numbers would have been in prior quarters, or how those numbers compare to the year ago quarter in terms of growth?

Tom, this is Phillip. I think it was a pretty good effort for us to put those metrics together, especially on the active relationships side. We did not try and go back into time and put them together on a pro forma basis. And, to be honest, to give you numbers that are not pro forma, I don’t think makes a whole lot of sense. It’s kind of comparing apples to oranges. So we really put those together to create a baseline for people to be able to compare how we progress from here on out.

Our next question will be coming from Jordan Rohan with Schwab. Mr. Rohan, please state your question.

Sure. Hey guys. I was hoping you could comment on the strangely strong January. Something we’ve heard about from a number of companies, not just FindWhat, but also Yahoo and some others. What do you think, if you had to guess, if you had to put some balances, why did this happen? Did this happen last year? Was there something specific to the IPO calendar or anything else, any other catalyst you can look at? Or was just more business conducted in January, more people were on searching and clicking? Can you give us some idea of why this happened?

It’s a great question, one that we’ve actually struggled getting absolute clarity, although I think we have attempted, you know, to be very candid. We don’t have a great explanation, other than we had an incredibly strong January. We saw advertisers in some of our larger advertisers participate within the office environment to a higher degree than we had seen in the past.

So we don’t have a great answer, other than the advertisers came in, as you referenced, across the board, and all the players within the sector, and participated at a very high level. And it started to decline slightly through the end of Q1, as we articulated on our last call. And we’ve seen that now shift, so to speak, going into Q3. So we’ve actually seen it start heavily in January, with no clear explanation as to why. And we saw it decrease towards the end of Q2 and into Q2. And we’ve seen that pick back up through the end of Q2 and going into Q3.

Our next question will be coming from Mark May with Kaufman Brothers. Mr. May, please state your question.

Hi. Thank you. Obviously you guys have a shelf that’s still sitting out there. I am wondering if you could talk us through a little bit about the types of deals that you’re interested in. And, given where the stock is right now, if you think that you can do an accretive deal at these levels.

And then just referencing a comment that you made in your prepared remarks about top five distribution partners representing 45% of revenues, I am wondering if you can give us a sense of what that number is today for the core FindWhat Network™ basis on a standalone basis. Thanks.

Sure Mark. This is Craig. I’ll take the first portion, and turn it over to Phillip for the second. The first portion, referring to the shelf registration, you actually blended pretty much two different things, the way we see things together, in that we do have a shelf out there that pretty much preserves our flexibility to be able to go out to the marketplace, or be able to do some deals as well.

But that doesn’t necessarily necessitate whether or not we can do an accretive deal. An accretive deal really would come down to whether or not we see a product or service that would – that’s strategically into what we are building on a global basis, and whether or not we can sit down with either an outside company, private or public, and negotiate what we would feel would be a good and accretive deal.

As we’ve always stated historically, anything that we’re going to do, we do look at it and do analyze and measure it from an accretive/dilutive basis. So that has pretty much been our mantra since day one, as we’ve started to expand our business. But, nevertheless, it really doesn’t totally tie into having the shelf registration out there. Again, the shelf is out there to preserve flexibility if we so choose to potentially do an offering at some point. Phil, do you want to take the second part?

Yeah. In terms of the FindWhat on a standalone basis, just the FindWhat Network™, we were at 45%. Really, from 40-45% of revenues come from the top five distribution partners for a number of years. And that continued into this year. The comment I was making was that looking forward, now that we are a much larger company, with operations around the globe, we believe that figure comes down to below 25%.

Our next question will be coming from Colin Gillis with Adams Harkness. Mr. Gillis, please state your question.

Great. I guess first off, just congratulations to Phillip and Brenda on the new titles.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And so is there any update you could give us on the patent issues, both the Overture issue, as well as the patents that have been filed by FindWhat?

Sure. The basic update is that we continue to move back somewhat, which I suppose is expected, the way these things go. So our current timeframe for trial has now been pushed back to the first half of 2005. We continue to be in the discovery stage, which has lasted a fairly long time, and has been extended a couple of times. But in terms of everything that we have seen, we continue to be consistent in our belief that we do not infringe on any valid or enforceable part of Overture’s patent.

Okay. Beautiful. Thank you very much.

(Caller instructions.) Our next question will be coming from Derek Brown with Pacific Growth Equities. Mr. Brown, please state your question.

Thanks. Wondering if you could give us a flavor for the cross-selling that you guys are both doing with Miva® and Comet, and also how you might expect to see that play out through the back half of the year, and into next year in particular, as it relates to Espotting.

Derek, this is Craig. I’ll take the first part, and then turn it over to Phillip for a few more details. You know, what we’ve done since the beginning – actually towards the end of last year we started talking about the find, get, keep strategy.

And those companies specifically fit into helping us deliver more traffic to our current advertiser database, as well as give us access to tens of thousands of online merchants, with Miva® specifically, as we noted when we first released that particular transaction, Miva® has relationships with tens of thousands of merchants that don’t interact within the paid listing sector today.

So we believe as we continue to integrate those companies, those companies specifically being the FindWhat.com Network™ and the Miva® services, that we’ll be able to offer those small/medium sized companies using the Miva® software a legitimate way to market their products and services, to be able to help them drive sales.

In addition to that, we also believe that the Merchant Services division, which is Miva®, the Merchant Services division specifically will help us hone in on the get side. In other words, it’s one thing to actually get traffic to a Web site. But, as you may remember, FindWhat.com was the first company to actually launch and deploy a post-click analytic tool back in 2002.

Well, the Miva® services allows them to take the next step, because we can now actually start seeing whether or not someone is clicking through, whether it be through a paid listing or not. But we can start watching that traffic, whether it clicks through and completes the sales process or not, and try to help those merchants actually hone their product offerings in a more efficient way, to help make sure they’re ensuring sales. So that really helps us address the find and keep – or excuse me, the find and get portion of the strategy.

With respect to Comet, Comet is now – it’s users are showing listings from the FindWhat network in the United States, and from the Espotting network in Europe, one thing that we’ve had a lot of success with, with our distribution partners – obviously who are third parties – is to continue to work on their business, and to try and improve either how they show listings or where they show listings, or when they show listings, and really create more traffic for them than they would get otherwise.

We’re pretty excited about the opportunity to go through that exercise with Comet. We’ve made a lot of progress in the few months that we’ve already been together. And I think we’re looking forward with more feedback, in terms of the traffic that comes directly to our advertisers in the FindWhat network and the Espotting network, to really continuing to make more improvements there.

Our next question will be coming from Eric Martinuzzi with Craig-Hallum, Inc. Mr. Martinuzzi, please state your question.

Two questions actually. The first was, I think I may have missed what Espotting was, if you had narrowed that down from your original commentary in Q2 from 27 to 28. Could you repeat that, and then comment on whether that also is one of the divisions that you expect increase in Q3?

And then secondly, non-acquisition investment areas that you’ll be focusing on in the back half of the year. Thanks.

Hi Eric. With regards to Espotting, we mentioned that in Q2 they did around $27-1/2m in revenue, with about $2m in EBITDA, considering one-time charges and/or benefits that we don’t anticipate moving forward. As Phillip said, all in all, in general, with regard to all of our divisions, including Espotting, and without regard to the seasonality softness, we do believe that there will be some growth there in Q3 over Q2.

Our next question will be coming from Jordan Rohan with Schwab. Mr. Rohan, please state your question.

Yeah, a couple questions. One’s just a follow-up to questions about Espotting. Specifically, in your commentary about what drove January, that was strong for both FindWhat and Espotting, Craig, you mentioned really a demand side part of the equation, where advertisers were stepping in with either fresh money from the new year, or budgets that have been replenished and reallocated to search.

But doesn’t Espotting have a supply side issue due to the markets on which it focuses, based in Europe, during the August time period when Europe has greater seasonality? Am I thinking about this correctly? Do you think that there is a chance that there is a supply side seasonality due to the number of available clicks in third quarter for Espotting? Thank you.

A good question. Actually, just going back one year, because unfortunately there is not a tremendous amount of data for Espotting in the European markets – historical data that is. Just looking back at the growth cycle over last year, they were excelling through the slow summer months. And part of that is due to who they’re targeting in those European markets.

So, in other words, although we put out revenue projections in June of last year saying Espotting would do $75m top line, basically for the closing nine months of 2003. They ended up doing $79, at the same time, shedding some of their partners – the more – let’s state the more noteworthy partners.

So they were showing that they were continuing to grow throughout that season, we do believe, based on the initiatives that we’re working on today, the integration process and, quite frankly, what we’re seeing to date, that we’re going to be able to again repeat that growth through the softness of the summer months.

In terms of the supply side – and we’ve talked a little bit about the demand side. In terms of supply side in January specifically, we saw that react in kind, so to speak. In other words, the advertisers were there. And the advertisers’ increased participation really is a direct result from the supply side – or excuse me, the demand side actually increasing.

In other words, the more clicks there are, the more advertisers. As long as they are valid and high quality clicks, the advertisers will react in kind by increasing their budgets and, quite frankly, stimulate the bidding process that much more. So it’s really – you can’t really do one without the other. Although you can do it over long periods of time, really when you see a short burst like that, it’s typically because the Internet usage, or the Internet users, are actually increasing.

And the advertisers are reacting in kind, because the quality of the traffic is very high. And, therefore, they want to make sure that their listings are in front of those advertisers and in front of those clicks.

Let me address a question that was raised before about investment in non-acquisition areas or non-acquisition investments. There’s a few things that we’re looking at. And I think, as I’d said in my prepared remarks, that one of our biggest challenges is actually choosing which areas to invest in first, and how quickly we believe we’ll see the return. A number of those things are in progress to a certain extent.

We believe Geo-filtering is an initiative that can have a lot of impact. Like I said, we’ve already begun to test that. And it’s had some nice results. And what that means is that people from all over the world access United States websites, for example. But getting traffic from someone who’s outside the country may not be the best quality traffic for one of the FindWhat Network advertisers.

So, to the extent that we can tell that the user is coming from the U.K. or coming from a different country, and then put advertisements that are from advertisers located in that country in front of that user, we think that will lead to both better results from a modernization standpoint, more click-throughs, because they’re more relevant results, and obviously better quality results for advertisers.

So that is something that we’ve already begun to work on, and will continue – we will continue to invest in technology. We do believe it makes sense to bring both the FindWhat Network and the Espotting Network together in terms of the way that our architectures work, together in the way we approach new development.

So there’s a combination there of spending on capital expenditures, but also spending additional money in terms of programmers and product management folks, and continuing to really define our pipeline, to make sure that the work that both sites have done, we take the best of the best of that work and develop it on a global basis. And actually not just between the FindWhat Network and the Espotting Network, but also for our private label partners as well. So really a number of initiatives. Some of them, as I mentioned, will take a little while for us to see the benefits of those. But we’re excited about them. And we’re committed to spending that money.

Our next question will be coming from Eric Martinuzzi with Craig-Hallum, Inc. Mr. Martinuzzi, would you like to state your question?

Thanks. They answered my question.

And our next question will be coming from [Roxanne Previty] with [Cisco Ohana] Financial Group.

I wonder if you can discuss the trends in traffic costs of Espotting. Specifically, do you anticipate them coming down over the next six months?

Yeah, we had several conversations with regard to Espotting. And again, that’s not something that we want to focus on, because globally we’re going to be looking at our traffic acquisition costs in total. Right now we feel that the combined traffic acquisitions costs is at a very, very comfortable percentage. Do we feel them coming down? We’re not modeling that for the remainder of 2004. However, as we start anticipating moving more and more into the middle market and still maintaining part of the tier one market over at Espotting, we may see a slight increase in 2005, but nothing substantial at this point.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have run out of time for questions today. Ms. Yagnesak, do you have any closing comments?

Yes. Thank you very much. This conference call contains certain forward-looking statements within Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Words or expressions such as plan, intend, believe, expect, or variations of such words and similar expressions are intended to identify such forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management’s current expectations, and are subject to uncertainty and changes in circumstances.

Actual results may vary materially from the expectations contained in the forward-looking statements. Key risks are described in FindWhat.com’s reports filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, including the Form 10K for fiscal 2003, and the most recently filed quarterly report on Form 10Q. In addition, past performance cannot be relied upon as a guide to future performance.

The following factors, among others, could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in the forward-looking statements: potential that the information and estimates used to predict anticipated revenues and expenses were not accurate; potential that we failed to maintain an effective system of internal controls that could cause us to be unable to accurately report our financial results or prevent fraud; potential that demand for our services will not continue to increase; the risk that we will not be able to continue to enter into new online marketing relationships to drive qualified traffic to our advertisers; risks associated with our ability to compete with competitors and increase competition for our distribution partners; political and global economic risks attendant to our business; other economic business and competitive factors generally affecting our business; the risk that operation of our business model infringes upon the intellectual property rights held by others; our reliance on distribution partners for revenue generating traffic; risks associated with our expanding international presence; difficulties executing integration strategies or achieving planned synergies with acquired business and private label initiatives; the risk that we will not be able to effectively manage our growth; the risk that new technologies could emerge which could limit the effectiveness of our products and services; risks associated with the operation of our technical systems, including system interruptions, security breaches and damage; risks associated with internet security, including security breaches which, if they were to occur, could damage our reputation and expose us to loss or litigation; and risks related to regulatory and legal uncertainties both domestically and internationally.

That concludes our call for today. Thank you for listening.

Ladies and gentlemen, you may disconnect your lines at this time.