Inter & Co Inc (INTR) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Inter & Co's fourth quarter of 2024 earnings conference call.

下午好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Inter & Co 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

Today's speakers are: Joao Vitor Menin, Inter's Global CEO; Alexandre Riccio, Brazil CEO; Santiago Stel, Senior Vice President and CFO. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded, and a replay will be available at the company's IR website. (Operator Instructions)

今天的發言者是：國際米蘭全球執行長 Joao Vitor Menin；巴西執行長 Alexandre Riccio；聖地牙哥‧斯特爾 (Santiago Stel)，資深副總裁兼財務長。請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中，重播將在該公司的 IR 網站上提供。（操作員指令）

Throughout this conference call, we will be presenting non-IFRS financial information. These are important financial measures for the company, but are not financial measures as defined by IFRS. Reconciliations of the company's non-IFRS financial information to the IFRS financial information are available in Inter & Co's earnings release and earnings presentation appendix.

在整個電話會議期間，我們將提供非國際財務報告準則的財務資訊。這些是公司的重要財務指標，但不是 IFRS 定義的財務指標。該公司的非國際財務報告準則 (IFRS) 財務資訊與國際財務報告準則 (IFRS) 財務資訊的對帳表可在 Inter & Co 的收益報告和收益列報附錄中找到。

Today's discussion might include forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in the company's earnings release and earnings presentation.

今天的討論可能包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述並不能保證未來的表現。請參閱公司收益報告和收益介紹中的前瞻性陳述揭露。

Now, I would like to yield the floor to Mr. Joao Vitor Menin. Sir, the floor is yours.

現在，我請若昂‧維托爾‧梅寧先生發言。先生，現在請您發言。

Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining our fourth quarter earnings call. This is a very special earnings call for me. Let me tell you why.

謝謝您，接線生。大家好。感謝您參加我們的第四季財報電話會議。對我來說，這是一次非常特別的財報電話會議。讓我來告訴你為什麼。

This year alone, we delivered more profits than in our entire history combined. I will repeat 2024 net income was more than all prior years combined. I believe that this is a proof of the success of our business model, which we designed back in 2016 when we launched the first digital bank in Brazil. It also gives me strong confidence that we are in the right path. Following my remarks, Xandre and Santi will cover the operational and financial results for the quarter and year.

光是今年，我們的利潤就超過了我們整個歷史上的總利潤。我再重複一遍，2024 年的淨收入超過了前幾年的總收入。我相信這是我們商業模式成功的證明，該模式早在 2016 年我們在巴西推出第一家數位銀行時就已設計。這也讓我堅信我們走在正確的道路上。在我發言之後，Xandre 和 Santi 將介紹本季和本年度的營運和財務表現。

Our business model has the beauty of combined growth and profitability, resulting in a positive network effect. Each new cycle reinforced the power of the platform, creating a virtual cycle. This is how it works. Our complete product offering, combined with a best-in-class UX help us attract and engage clients. The more clients we have, the more efficient we become.

我們的商業模式將成長與獲利結合，從而產生正面的網路效應。每個新的循環都增強了平台的力量，創造了一個虛擬循環。它的工作原理如下。我們的完整產品與一流的用戶體驗相結合，幫助我們吸引和留住客戶。客戶越多，我們的效率就越高。

Our low-cost structure allow us to price our products competitively. Operating in a capital-efficient manner, together with strong share in services, we increase profitability and ROE. And this growing profitability enable us to keep innovating. As this cycle repeats itself, the platform becomes stronger and stronger. Jumping into 2024, let me provide a few highlights of the year.

我們的低成本結構使得我們的產品定價具有競爭力。透過以資本高效的方式運營，加上在服務領域的強大份額，我們提高了獲利能力和 ROE。這種不斷增長的獲利能力使我們能夠不斷創新。隨著這個循環的重複，平台變得越來越強大。進入 2024 年，讓我來介紹這一年的幾個亮點。

On the credit front, we made significant progress with our 100% digital payroll offering, which now accounts for more than 50% of the new underwritings. We also continued scaling our Consumer Finance 2.0 portfolio and aim to increase the penetration rate within our current clients. Regarding products, Forum launched in Q3 2024 now has millions and millions of users who share investment tips, news and stay updated on Inter products. Our commerce platform had an outstanding year in which we were able to crack the code on combining commerce with finance. Loop, our loyalty program, is expanding its options for earning and redeeming points and has surpassed 11 million clients.

在信貸方面，我們在 100% 數位化薪資服務方面取得了重大進展，目前佔新承保的 50% 以上。我們也持續擴大我們的消費金融2.0投資組合，並致力於提高現有客戶的滲透率。關於產品，於 2024 年第三季推出的論壇現在擁有數百萬的用戶，他們分享投資技巧、新聞並隨時了解 Inter 產品的最新動態。我們的商業平台度過了出色的一年，在這一年中，我們成功破解了商業與金融結合的密碼。我們的忠誠度計畫 Loop 正在擴大其賺取和兌換積分的選項，其客戶數量已超過 1,100 萬。

Now, let me take a moment to discuss our global expansion. By the end of 2024, we reached 3.9 million clients using our global account. This success comes from our attractive value proposition. Our global account make it very easy to invest, travel, send money internationally and more. We also expanded our offerings with the highlight being the launch of our dollar credit cards last December.

現在，請容許我花點時間討論我們的全球擴張。到 2024 年底，使用我們全球帳戶的客戶已達 390 萬人。這項成功源自於我們富有吸引力的價值主張。我們的全球帳戶使投資、旅行、國際匯款等變得非常容易。我們還擴大了服務範圍，其中最引人注目的是去年 12 月推出的美元信用卡。

2024 was also a year of welcoming new talents to our team, enhancing our skills and capabilities. Rui Leandro and Marcelo Dantas joined the Finance team. Monica Saccarelli and Fernando Bacchin came on board on the Business side. Our newest hire, Marco Antonio Araujo, joined as our Global Head of Legal. Xandre was promoted to Brazil's CEO in the middle of the year.

2024 年也是我們歡迎新人才加入團隊、提升我們技能和能力的一年。Rui Leandro 和 Marcelo Dantas 加入了財務團隊。莫妮卡·薩卡雷利 (Monica Saccarelli) 和費爾南多·巴欽 (Fernando Bacchin) 加入商業部門。我們最新聘用的 Marco Antonio Araujo 擔任我們的全球法律主管。Xandre 今年年中被提升為巴西執行長。

And also Rafaela Vitoria is stepping as the new IR Officer. Gui Ximenes, who held the CTO role since the launch of our digital bank became our CIO last December. He is now our Chief Information Officer. Flavio Queijo expanded his responsibilities and now manage the Real Estate portfolio, FGTS and Payroll loans. On the Board side, we added Jim Allen, former Morgan Stanley, Senior Banker.

此外，Rafaela Vitoria 還將擔任新任 IR 官員。自我們的數位銀行推出以來一直擔任首席技術長的 Gui Ximenes 於去年 12 月成為我們的資訊長。他現在是我們的資訊長。Flavio Queijo 擴大了他的職責，現在負責管理房地產投資組合、FGTS 和薪資貸款。在董事會方面，我們增加了前摩根士丹利高級銀行家吉姆艾倫 (Jim Allen)。

Additionally, on the Advisory side, Nicola Calicchio, former McKinsey's Head of Brazil, is helping us as a Senior Advisor to the executive team, while Fernando Ferrari, advised us on Treasury and ALM.

此外，在諮詢方面，前麥肯錫巴西總裁 Nicola Calicchio 正在擔任執行團隊的高級顧問，而 Fernando Ferrari 則為我們提供財務和資產負債管理方面的建議。

To conclude, we successfully executed the second year of our 60-30-30 plan, which is key to continue growing and innovating our platform.

總而言之，我們成功執行了 60-30-30 計畫的第二年，這對於我們平台的持續發展和創新至關重要。

Now, I'd like to hand it over to Xandre, who will provide more details on the business side. Xandre, please go ahead.

現在，我想把話題交給 Xandre，他將提供更多業務方面的細節。Xandre，請繼續。

Thank you, Joao. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I'll go through an update of our seven business verticals, which together build our Super App platform. As Joao said, on the virtuous cycle, we have created a powerful network effect with clients actively using our account, credit, investments, insurance, marketplace and global services, all tied together by Loop, our loyalty program. This engagement across our financial Super App enables us to effectively cross-sell our products and continuously increase our market share.

謝謝你，若昂。大家好，感謝大家今天加入我們。我將介紹我們的七個垂直業務的最新情況，它們共同建立了我們的超級應用平台。正如若昂所說，在良性循環中，我們創造了強大的網路效應，客戶積極使用我們的帳戶、信貸、投資、保險、市場和全球服務，所有這些都透過我們的忠誠度計劃 Loop 聯繫在一起。透過我們金融超級應用程式的參與，我們能夠有效地交叉銷售我們的產品並不斷增加我們的市場份額。

Attracting customers is a key priority for us, and we're proud to finish one more year, adding more than 4 million clients while boosting activation. We finished 2024 with over 36 million clients, achieving a 57% activation rate. Throughout the year, we successfully welcomed more than 1 million new active clients each quarter. Our business clients grew by 21% year-over-year, reaching a total of 2.2 million. They show high engagement and increased ARPAC levels.

吸引客戶是我們的首要任務，我們很自豪能夠在新的一年增加 400 多萬客戶，同時提高活躍度。到 2024 年，我們的客戶數量已超過 3,600 萬，啟動率達到 57%。全年我們每季都成功迎來了超過 100 萬名新活躍客戶。我們商業客戶數量年增21%，達到220萬人。他們表現出高度的參與度和不斷提升的 ARPAC 水平。

Now, moving to the next slide. Let's take a deeper look into our verticals. In Banking, TPV has increased by 45% year-over-year, reaching BRL1.5 trillion run rate in 4Q '24. Transactions made through PIX totaled BRL1.1 trillion for the year. In the fourth quarter, Inter gained an additional 14 basis points in PIX market share, reaching 8.3%.

現在，轉到下一張投影片。讓我們更深入地了解我們的垂直行業。在銀行業，TPV 年成長 45%，24 年第四季達到 1.5 兆巴西雷亞爾的運作率。全年透過 PIX 進行的交易總額達到 1.1 兆巴西雷亞爾。第四季度，Inter在PIX市佔率又上升了14個基點，達到8.3%。

Our mix between credit and debit volumes continues to improve with credit card transaction growth surpassing debit card transaction growth, leading to higher interchange revenues. TPV levels across cohorts is steadily increasing with newer clients transacting more and faster than other clients.

我們的信用卡和金融卡交易量組合持續改善，信用卡交易量成長超過金融卡交易量成長，進而帶來更高的交換收入。隨著新客戶的交易量比其他客戶更多、更快，各個群組的 TPV 水準正在穩步提升。

On the Credit front, we want to highlight the Consumer Finance 2.0 portfolio, which includes PIX Financing; Buy Now, Pay Later; and Overdraft. We started to scale this portfolio this year and now it stands at almost BRL700 million, a 38% growth quarter-over-quarter. We're seeing consistent performance from these products from a credit quality perspective, eliminating the need to slow down our underwriting.

在信貸方面，我們要重點介紹消費金融 2.0 產品組合，其中包括 PIX 融資；先購買，後付款；和透支。我們今年開始擴大這個投資組合，目前其價值已接近 7 億雷亞爾，季增 38%。從信用品質的角度來看，我們看到這些產品的表現穩定，因此無需放慢承保速度。

While we remain cautious in our risk appetite, we found opportunities to underwrite card limits as our credit models continue to evolve, allowing us to better understand our clients. Speaking of client behavior, another innovation this year was the launch of our credit hub as called [CLIN], where clients can follow a step-by-step journey to earn their credit card limits with us. These steps involve actions like bringing their salary direct deposits to Inter, paying bills before the due date and more. We allocate small limits as clients complete these steps. And by the end of the journey, we have enough data to provide them with the appropriate credit card limit.

雖然我們對風險偏好保持謹慎，但隨著信用模式的不斷發展，我們發現了承保信用卡限額的機會，這使我們能夠更好地了解客戶。說到客戶行為，今年的另一個創新是推出我們的信用中心 [CLIN]，客戶可以按照逐步流程獲得我們的信用卡額度。這些措施包括將工資直接存入國際銀行、在到期日之前支付帳單等等。當客戶完成這些步驟時，我們會分配較小的限額。到旅程結束時，我們就有足夠的數據來提供他們適當的信用卡限額。

Moving to Investments on the next slide, we see that AuC increased by 54% on a yearly basis with active clients growing to over 6.8 million. For the second consecutive quarter, we had record growth in AuC. One highlight of this quarter is that we achieved 20% market share in the number of investors of Tesouro Direto, which is Brazil Treasury Direct.

下一張投影片中的投資部分，我們看到 AuC 年比成長了 54%，活躍客戶數量成長到超過 680 萬人。連續第二個季度，我們的 AuC 實現了創紀錄的成長。本季的一大亮點是我們在巴西國庫直接投資 Tesouro Direto 的投資者數量中佔了 20% 的市場份額。

On the next page, I'll talk about Insurance. The performance of this vertical was remarkable in 2024. The charts on the left-hand side show the significant growth and penetration we can achieve with the right targeting quality products, hyper-personalization and contextualized journeys. We reached over 5 million active contracts with more than 5 million units sold in '24, achieving a 312% growth in the year. We raised the bar with the introduction of FGTS, Life Insurance, and [Sortezinha], two low ticket but recurrent products that offered -- that we offered within existing product journeys. This strategy involves zero marginal cost to attract clients, taking full advantage of our integrated platform.

在下一頁，我將討論保險。2024 年，該垂直產業的表現非常出色。左側的圖表顯示了我們透過正確定位優質產品、超個人化和情境化旅程可以實現的顯著增長和滲透。我們簽訂了超過 500 萬份有效合同，24 年銷售量超過 500 萬台，全年實現了 312% 的增長。我們透過推出 FGTS、人壽保險和 [Sortezinha] 提高了標準，這是兩款低價但經常性提供的產品——我們在現有產品旅程中提供這些產品。該策略以零邊際成本吸引客戶，充分利用我們的整合平台。

Shifting to our marketplace, we had an exciting year with a 79% year-over-year growth in net revenues, 42% growth year-over-year in GMV that reached nearly BRL5 billion and all that done across more than 6 million active clients. In the fourth quarter, 7% of our GMV was generated through Buy Now, Pay Later, reinforcing our cross-selling opportunities. This unique combination enables us to leverage our fee revenues while also generating interest income from higher-margin unsecured credit operations.

轉向我們的市場，我們度過了令人興奮的一年，淨收入同比增長 79%，GMV 同比增長 42%，達到近 50 億巴西雷亞爾，所有這些都覆蓋了超過 600 萬活躍客戶。第四季度，我們 7% 的 GMV 是透過「先買後付」模式產生的，這增強了我們的交叉銷售機會。這種獨特的組合使我們能夠利用我們的費用收入，同時也能從利潤率較高的無擔保信貸業務中獲得利息收入。

In the next page, we highlight our global expansion continuous growth. We reached 3.9 million clients, which is 19% of our active base. The deposits balance increased by 52% in one year. Within this vertical, we typically serve higher income Brazilians who typically travel and save money in the US. We continue evolving on the product offering by replicating the Brazilian products into the US account. Recently, we launched our dollar-denominated credit card, points for our US dollar debit cards, purchases and new investment products.

在下一頁中，我們將重點放在我們全球擴張的持續成長。我們擁有 390 萬客戶，占我們活躍客戶的 19%。一年內存款餘額增加了52%。在這個垂直領域，我們通常服務於通常到美國旅行和省錢的高收入巴西人。我們透過將巴西產品複製到美國帳戶來不斷改進產品供應。最近，我們推出了以美元計價的信用卡、美元金融卡積分、購物和新投資產品。

On the next page, we talk about Loop, our seventh vertical. We finished 2024 with over 11 million clients and continue to evolve in ways for people to earn and burn points. Clients can now redeem points for extra cash back on purchases in our marketplace, transfer points among family and friends, redeem points for PIX Insurance and more. Clients who engage consistently with Loop are among those that are most active within our platform.

在下一頁，我們將討論第七個垂直領域 Loop。到 2024 年，我們的客戶數量已超過 1,100 萬，我們將繼續改善人們賺取和使用積分的方式。客戶現在可以在我們的市場購物時兌換積分以獲得額外的現金回饋、在家人和朋友之間轉移積分、兌換 PIX 保險等。與 Loop 持續合作的客戶是我們平台內最活躍的客戶之一。

In the next slide, we talk about market share and show some of the evolution that we've been able to deliver in a few of our products. PIX market share, which reached 8.3%, continues to be a benchmark we use to set the ambition of market share potential for the other products. We are excited with the evolution, both in banking and in nonbanking products. Three highlights are FX transactions, the balance of our home equity portfolio, and our FGTS loans; products that are strategic for engagement and profitability. We are confident in our capacity to continue expanding share, and we'll see part of why on the next slide.

在下一張投影片中，我們將討論市場份額，並展示我們在某些​​產品中取得的一些進展。PIX 的市佔率達到 8.3%，這繼續成為我們衡量其他產品市佔率潛力的基準。我們對銀行和非銀行產品的演變感到非常興奮。三大亮點是外匯交易、我們的房屋淨值投資組合的餘額以及我們的 FGTS 貸款；對於參與度和獲利能力具有策略意義的產品。我們有信心繼續擴大份額，下一張投影片中我們將看到部分原因。

I finished the business section showing how much room we have to grow. We're operating in markets with enormous [stamps,] and having a large client base facilitates access to a good part of this market, and it explains why our share is moving so fast. Strategies like hyperpersonalization for activating and retaining clients have optimized our sales efficiency. We're confident that our continuous product evolution, improved client service and enhanced overall value proposition are key to sustain our positive trends.

我完成了業務部分，展示了我們還有多少發展空間。我們的經營市場擁有龐大的[郵票]數量，龐大的客戶群讓我們能夠進入這個市場的很大一部分，這也解釋了為什麼我們的份額增長如此之快。超個人化等激活和留住客戶的策略優化了我們的銷售效率。我們堅信，持續的產品革新、不斷改善的客戶服務和不斷增強的整體價值主張是維持我們積極趨勢的關鍵。

Now, I would like to pass the word to Santi, who will take us through the financial section.

現在，我想把話傳給桑蒂，他將帶我們參觀財務部分。

Thank you, Xandre, and hello, everyone. Let's jump into our financial performance. Starting with the loans. This was another year focused on optimizing our capital allocation into our loan book. Our loans reached BRL41 billion, a 33% year-over-year growth with FGTS and home equity being the highlights by growing above 50% each.

謝謝你，Xandre，大家好。讓我們來看看我們的財務表現。從貸款開始。這又是我們致力於優化貸款資本配置的一年。我們的貸款達到 410 億巴西雷亞爾，比去年同期增長 33%，其中 FGTS 和房屋淨值是亮點，分別增長超過 50%。

Both these products have the highest ROEs and have been crucial in improving our portfolio mix and expanding our NIM. In credit cards, we surpassed BRL11.8 billion with a 10% quarter-on-quarter and 25% year-on-year growth, showcasing our progress and appetite in the noncollateralized credit underwriting. Personal loans, mainly payroll is starting to grow with digital underwriting being the main driver. In terms of relative growth, we can see here that we outpaced the market growth in most of our products. FGTS, home equity and real estate grew approximately twice as fast as the market, gaining significant market share.

這兩種產品的 ROE 都最高，對於改善我們的投資組合和擴大我們的 NIM 至關重要。在信用卡方面，我們的業務收入超過 118 億雷亞爾，環比增長 10%，同比增長 25%，展示了我們在無擔保信貸承保方面的進步和興趣。個人貸款（主要是薪資貸款）開始成長，數位承保是主要驅動力。從相對成長來看，我們可以看到，我們的大多數產品都超過了市場的成長。FGTS、房屋淨值和房地產的成長速度約為市場的兩倍，獲得了顯著的市場份額。

Credit cards also grew nearly twice as the market, all while improving our asset quality metrics. Meanwhile, personal is reaccelerating despite the runoff of the acquired portfolio and thanks to the success of our digital payroll. In terms of asset quality, we continue improving for the third consecutive quarter with NPLs from 15 to 90 days standing at 3.4% and NPLs greater than 90 days decreasing 30 bps to 4.2%. The credit card NPLs when analyzed across cohorts continue to show strong performance, validating the progress made in our underwriting models and collection processes. NPL formation reduced to 1.2% as the older, weaker portfolios are decreasing representation in the mix, while our stronger underwriting portfolios are gaining representation in the mix.

信用卡業務也實現了近兩倍於市場的成長，同時我們的資產品質指標也得到了改善。同時，儘管收購的投資組合已經縮減，但由於我們的數位薪資單取得了成功，個人業務仍在重新加速。資產品質方面，連續第三個季度持續改善，15至90天的不良貸款率為3.4%，90天以上的不良貸款率下降30個基點至4.2%。在對各組信用卡不良貸款進行分析時，發現它們繼續表現強勁，驗證了我們的核保模式和收款流程所取得的進展。不良貸款形成率降至 1.2%，因為較舊、較弱的投資組合在組合中的比例正在下降，而我們較強的承保投資組合在組合中的佔比正在上升。

We can see the evolution of our cost of risk metric, which decreased to 5.0% and presented a very stable trend throughout the year. Furthermore, our coverage ratio increased from 130% to 136%. This increase is due to the improvement in the NPLs as seen in the prior page. With this picture on the asset quality front, we are starting 2025 even stronger than what we started 2024 a year ago. On this page, we can see the evolution of our funding franchise, which is one of the key strengths of our business model.

我們可以看到風險成本指標的演變，它下降到了 5.0%，並且全年呈現出非常穩定的趨勢。此外，我們的覆蓋率從130％增加到136％。正如上一頁所示，這一增長是由於不良貸款的改善。從資產品質來看，我們 2025 年的開局將比一年前 2024 年更強勁。在此頁面上，我們可以看到我們的融資特許經營權的演變，這是我們商業模式的主要優勢之一。

We concluded 2024 with over BRL55 billion in funding, growing 10% quarter-on-quarter and 27% year-on-year. In terms of mix, we continue to have around one-third of our funding in transactional deposits, which is the main driver of our loan funding cost. Our active clients had on average BRL2,000 in deposits, a record level that highlights the primary key relationship with us. The attractive funding mix shown on the prior page enables us to have the lowest cost of funding in the banking industry in Brazil. In the fourth quarter of this year, it stood at 64% of CDI, in line with the prior quarters.

截至 2024 年，我們的融資總額超過 550 億雷亞爾，季增 10%，年增 27%。在結構方面，我們仍然將約三分之一的資金用於交易存款，這是我們貸款融資成本的主要驅動因素。我們的活躍客戶平均存款為 2,000 巴西雷亞爾，這項創紀錄水準凸顯了與我們的主要關鍵關係。上一頁顯示的有吸引力的融資組合使我們擁有巴西銀行業最低的融資成本。今年第四季度，該比例為 CDI 的 64%，與前幾季持平。

Here, we present our top line, which ended 2024 with over BRL10 billion in total gross revenues and BRL6.4 billion in total net revenues. This year, NII and net fees grew significantly, increasing 37% and 31%, respectively. On a quarterly basis, the performance was also very strong with gross and net revenues growing 10%. Our distribution platform allows us to continue performing strong on the fee side, which accounts to 32% of our net revenues. On the credit front, higher NII growth highlights our ongoing repricing strategies as well as our focus on higher ROE products, as already mentioned.

這裡我們展示了我們的營業收入，截止 2024 年，總收入超過 100 億雷亞爾，總淨收入為 64 億雷亞爾。今年以來，NII和淨費用大幅成長，分別成長了37%和31%。從季度來看，業績也非常強勁，總營收和淨收入均成長 10%。我們的分銷平台使我們在費用方面繼續表現強勁，這占我們淨收入的32％。在信貸方面，正如前面提到的，更高的NII成長凸顯了我們正在進行的重新定價策略以及我們對更高ROE產品的關注。

With higher engagement, we achieved a record monthly ARPAC of BRL33.6 this quarter, marking an 11% growth compared to last year. Hyperpersonalization and targeted marketing is becoming a driving force behind the increasing monetization of our clients. We also reached a record margin per active client of BRL20.6 as we continue to increase the gap between our CTS and our ARPAC. We believe this demonstrates our ability to effectively monetize our customer base while capturing economies of scale in cost, as Joao mentioned, while explained on the virtuous cycle. Let's now deep dive into our net margins.

隨著參與度的提高，我們本季的月度 ARPAC 達到了創紀錄的 33.6 巴西雷亞爾，比去年增長了 11%。超個人化和有針對性的行銷正在成為我們客戶不斷增加的貨幣化背後的驅動力。隨著我們 CTS 和 ARPAC 之間的差距不斷擴大，我們的每位活躍客戶利潤也達到了創紀錄的 20.6 巴西雷亞爾。我們相信，這證明了我們有能力有效地將客戶群貨幣化，同時實現成本規模經濟，正如 Joao 在解釋良性循環時所提到的。現在讓我們深入了解我們的淨利潤。

Both our NIM 1.0, which means including in the denominator, the noninterest accruals of credit cards and the NIM 2.0, which excludes the noninterest receivables are showing an upward positive trend, increasing significantly when compared to a year ago. This is the validation, we think, of our marginal ROE strategy implemented since the beginning of last year. We have been successful on increasing revenue in a faster pace while maintaining expenses under control during the fourth quarter. As a result, our efficiency ratio improved and now stands at 50.1%. Worth mentioning that we continue working on the integration of Inter Pag, which will be an attractive driver of operating leverage by both improving the cost base while increasing revenue through cross-selling.

我們的NIM 1.0（即分母包含信用卡非利息應計費用）和NIM 2.0（不包括非利息應收款）都呈現上升趨勢，與一年前相比有大幅成長。我們認為，這是對我們自去年年初以來實施的邊際 ROE 策略的驗證。我們在第四季度成功地以更快的速度增加了收入，同時控制了支出。結果，我們的效率比率得到了提高，目前達到50.1%。值得一提的是，我們將繼續致力於 Inter Pag 的整合，這將成為吸引營運槓桿的驅動力，既可以改善成本基礎，又可以透過交叉銷售增加收入。

To conclude, we can clearly see here our journey towards increasing profitability. We have tripled our net income this year, reaching BRL973 million and an 11.7% ROE on an annual basis. Quarterly, our consistency is impressive in our view, reaching nearly BRL300 million of net income, closing the year with strong momentum that enables us to start 2025 in a position of strength.

總而言之，我們可以清楚地看到我們提高獲利能力的歷程。今年我們的淨收入成長了兩倍，達到了 9.73 億雷亞爾，年化 ROE 為 11.7%。從季度來看，我們的一致性令人印象深刻，達到近 3 億雷亞爾的淨收入，以強勁的勢頭結束這一年，使我們能夠在 2025 年開啟強勢地位。

Now, Joao will step again to share his closing remarks. Thank you all.

現在，若昂將再次上台發表他的結束語。謝謝大家。

Thank you very much, Santi. To conclude, 2024 is a year to celebrate our evolution, discipline and consistency, not just the results. What a year! As you know, 2025 has already begun, and we're starting it with strong momentum. We are leveraging on technology and innovation; reaching new levels of market share in Brazil, also focused on operational leverage; reinforcing our strong asset quality metrics and executing our global expansion plan.

非常感謝，桑蒂。總而言之，2024 年是慶祝我們的進化、紀律和一致性的一年，而不僅僅是結果的一年。多麼美好的一年啊！眾所周知，2025年已經開始，我們正以強勁的勢頭開始這一年。我們正在利用技術和創新；在巴西的市佔率達到新的水平，同時也注重營運槓桿；加強我們強大的資產品質指標並執行我們的全球擴張計劃。

I would like to thank all our employees for the amazing 2024 we achieved together. Thank you all. Operator, you can open the Q&A session now. Thank you very much.

我要感謝我們所有的員工，感謝我們共同取得的輝煌的 2024 年。謝謝大家。接線生，您現在可以開始問答環節了。非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

（操作員指示）美國銀行馬裡奧·皮埃里 (Mario Pierry)。

Congratulations on the results. We thought it was quite good. It shows right the benefits of all of your initiatives over the past year. So it's really, really a good job that you guys have been doing. Let me ask you, Joao, a question looking forward, right?

恭喜你所取得的成果。我們認為它非常好。它正確顯示了您過去一年來所有舉措所帶來的收益。所以你們做得確實非常好。若昂，讓我問你一個期待的問題，對吧？

Like we've been listening to the incumbent banks talking about a much more cautious outlook for 2025, given the high-rate environment in Brazil. Everybody now is guiding for loan growth of about 6% to 8% and best. So I wanted to hear from you your perspective on your ability to continue to grow your loan book near the 30% level.

就像我們一直在聽現有銀行談論考慮到巴西的高利率環境而對 2025 年的前景更加謹慎一樣。現在大家都預期貸款成長最好在6%到8%左右。所以我想聽聽你對繼續將貸款成長率保持在 30% 左右的能力的看法。

And also, how do you expect your net interest margin to behave in this rising rate environment? I know in the past, it was negative for you, but I think you have been making changes to your asset-liability management strategy. So if you can update us on what to expect on margins and what do you think about loan growth in '25, that would be great?

另外，您預期在利率上升的環境下，您的淨利差將會如何表現？我知道過去這對你來說是不利的，但我認為你一直在改變你的資產負債管理策略。因此，如果您可以告訴我們利潤率的預期以及您對 25 年貸款成長的看法，那就太好了？

Mario, Joao speaking. Thank you for the compliments on the earnings and going straight to the point. For those who have been listening to our earnings call for a while and that knows the company for a longer period of time, you all know that we have been taking a very cautious approach about credit underwriting since the beginning of the bank. We have been doing that since 1994. We also designed Inter to be a very established, a very diversified credit portfolio platform or bank.

馬裡奧，我是若昂。謝謝您對收入的讚揚，而且直奔主題。對於那些一直關注我們的收益電話會議並且長期了解我們公司的人來說，你們都知道，自從銀行成立以來，我們一直對信用承保採取非常謹慎的態度。自 1994 年以來，我們一直這樣做。我們也將 Inter 設計成一個非常成熟、非常多元化的信貸組合平台或銀行。

We wanted to be everything but a monoliner. With that design in place and with this approach, we have always been able to navigate the ups and downs of the macro, mostly in Brazil. That said, Mario, we never had a very spike growth on credit underwrite when the market was booming, but we don't foresee a reduce on our growth when the market is not that strong. Also, just to remember, not only we're not a monoliner, but most of our credit portfolio has a very good level of collateralization.

我們想做一切事情，但絕不是只做單一業務。透過這樣的設計和方法，我們始終能夠應對宏觀環境的起伏，主要是在巴西。話雖如此，馬裡奧，當市場蓬勃發展時，我們的信用核保業務從未出現過大幅成長，但當市場不那麼強勁時，我們預計我們的成長不會減少。另外，請記住，我們不僅不是單一保險公司，而且我們的大部分信貸組合都具有非常好的抵押貸款水準。

And last, we have a very good cost of funding that can help us to price the products and to cherry pick the best clients. We need to remember that unfortunately or fortunately, we don't have 15%, 20% market share in most of the credit portfolios that we operate. We have close to 1%, 1.5%. We have a big addressable market still to grow in a 25%, 30%-ish throughout the years, even with some challenge on the macro, okay? And Santi will cover now the impact on the NIMs.

最後，我們擁有非常好的融資成本，可以幫助我們為產品定價並挑選最好的客戶。我們需要記住，無論是不幸還是幸運，在我們營運的大多數信貸組合中，我們都沒有 15% 或 20% 的市場份額。我們有接近1%、1.5%。我們有一個巨大的潛在市場，未來幾年仍能以 25% 到 30% 左右的速度成長，即使在宏觀方面面臨一些挑戰，好嗎？現在，Santi 將介紹對 NIM 的影響。

Mario, thank you for the question. So on the NIM environment or in the context of an environment of rising rates, as you know, we have been working on being very disciplined on deploying capital in a strong ROE or marginal ROE level.

馬裡奧，謝謝你的提問。因此，在 NIM 環境或利率上升的背景下，如您所知，我們一直致力於在強勁的 ROE 或邊際 ROE 水平上嚴格地部署資本。

And in addition to that, we have been working to take away volatility of our financials by hedging the originations of the loans that we originate with more than one year of duration since the beginning of 2023. And as a consequence of doing that, mainly on the fixed rate loan and on the inflation, we are now marginally positive to CDI movements in the context of increasing interest rates, will have a slightly positive result in terms of NII. So basically, what we have been trying to do is to not be volatile or not have additional volatility as a consequence of that.

除此之外，自 2023 年初以來，我們一直致力於透過對沖期限超過一年的貸款來消除財務波動。這樣做的結果是，主要針對固定利率貸款和通貨膨脹，在利率上升的背景下，我們現在對 CDI 走勢略有積極影響，對 NII 而言將產生略微積極的結果。所以基本上，我們一直在努力做的就是不產生波動，或是不因此而產生額外的波動。

So if we isolate the movement of interest rates that is playing out, what we have is the ROE of the new loans are coming in stronger than the back book. We have an impact of loan mix that is positive as a consequence of having the higher ROE products gaining representation. If you see now in our loan book, FGTS plus home equity is nearly 20% of the loan book. And in addition to that, we have the newer unsecured credit lines, PIX Financing and Buy Now, Pay Later, which are slowly but steadily growing, and those also add an improvement into the overall NII. So all of that together, we expect to continue to have the trend that we had last year of around 20 bps on average of growth in the NIM per quarter.

因此，如果我們孤立地看待正在發生的利率變動，我們會發現新貸款的 ROE 要強於後期貸款。由於 ROE 較高的產品佔據了主導地位，我們對貸款組合產生了積極的影響。如果你現在看到我們的貸款帳簿，FGTS 加上房屋淨值幾乎佔貸款帳簿的 20%。除此之外，我們還有較新的無擔保信用額度、PIX 融資和先買後付，這些業務正在緩慢但穩定地成長，同時也對整體 NII 有所改善。綜合考慮所有這些因素，我們預計淨利息收益率 (NIM) 將繼續保持去年的趨勢，即每季平均成長約 20 個基點。

It's not linear. No, it doesn't happen every quarter. But if you see the NIMs that we had last year from the beginning of 2023 to the end of 2024, that was the average growth per quarter. If we on top of that, consider the cost of risk, what we call the risk-adjusted NIM, which is what we care the most about, is an even stronger impact as a consequence of having been able to do a good job in maintaining asset quality very strong. So all of that to say, we don't expect a change in the trend of the increasing NIMs that we had in 2024 coming into 2025, independently of the macro or rate environment that we're seeing.

它不是線性的。不，這種情況並不是每季都會發生。但如果您查看我們去年從 2023 年初到 2024 年底的 NIM，那就是每個季度的平均成長率。如果我們在此基礎上考慮風險成本，也就是我們最關心的所謂風險調整後的淨利差，其影響將更為顯著，因為我們能夠很好地維持資產質量，從而實現這一目標。總而言之，無論我們看到的宏觀或利率環境如何，我們預計 2024 年 NIM 成長的趨勢在 2025 年不會改變。

Very clear. So to summarize, you're comfortable loan growth, 25% to 30% and further NIM expansion in '25, right?

非常清楚。所以總結一下，您對貸款成長率感到滿意，25%到30%，並且25年NIM將進一步擴大，對嗎？

That's correct. We are.

沒錯。是的。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Tito Labarta。

A couple of questions, if I can. I guess, first on just expenses and efficiency. We did see a slight improvement in efficiency in the quarter, but expense growth is still a little bit elevated. If we look at efficiency, I know you had Inter Pag this year, so it throws off the numbers a little bit. But how should we think about expense growth in 2025 and continued improvements in efficiency to get to that 30% longer-term target?

如果可以的話，我有幾個問題。我想，首先只討論費用和效率。我們確實看到本季的效率略有改善，但費用成長仍然有點高。如果我們看一下效率，我知道今年有 Inter Pag，因此這會稍微影響數據。但是，我們該如何看待2025年的費用成長以及效率的持續提高，以實現30%的長期目標呢？

Just how much could we potentially see in '25? Or what's the incremental improvement we could see from here? And then just a question on your capital base. I mean, you paid a small dividend core Tier 1 ratio is down to 15.2%. I know you have excess capital at the holding, so maybe that compensates it.

在 25 年我們到底能看到多少東西？或者從這裡我們可以看到什麼漸進的改進？然後我只想問一下你的資本基礎。我的意思是，你支付的少量股息核心一級資本比率下降到了 15.2%。我知道你們控股公司有剩餘資本，所以也許這可以補償它。

Just to understand how you're thinking about capital. What's the right capital ratio in Brazil? And how do you think about the excess capital at the holding? Or how should we think about that?

只是想了解你對資本的看法。巴西的正確資本比率是多少？您如何看待控股公司的過剩資本？或者說我們該如何思考這個問題？

Tito, this is Xandre speaking. Thank you for your question. I'll start with like a 30,000 feet view, and then Santi will deep dive on the expenses. And first point I'd like to highlight is that we're super committed to bringing our efficiency ratio to the 30% ballpark as per the 60-30-30 plan. So we are on pace.

蒂托，我是 Xandre。感謝您的提問。我將從 30,000 英尺的視角開始，然後 Santi 將深入研究費用。我想強調的第一點是，我們非常致力於以 60-30-30 計畫將我們的效率比率提高到 30% 左右。所以我們正按計劃進行。

We improved in 2024 if we compare to the end of 2023, and we'll keep improving. We did see this spike in the third quarter, followed by an inflection in terms of cost to income in the fourth quarter. And what we're going to keep doing is working disciplined on the cost reduction initiatives. We have all that institutionalized now. And we're deploying in 2025 new strategies to have company-wide engagement in bringing these numbers towards like the 2027 targets.

如果與 2023 年底相比，我們在 2024 年有所進步，而且我們會繼續進步。我們確實在第三季度看到了這種飆升，隨後在第四季度成本收入比出現了變化。我們將繼續嚴格執行降低成本的措施。現在我們已經將這一切都制度化了。我們將在 2025 年部署新策略，讓全公司共同努力實現 2027 年的目標。

And for example, we're deploying cost to income in each one of the areas, whether it's a P&L area or whether it's a cost center so that we keep things in the right direction as we navigate through the quarters.

例如，我們在每個領域（無論是損益表領域還是成本中心）部署成本收入，以便我們在各個季度中保持正確的方向。

Tito, Santiago here complementing Xandre. So on the fourth quarter, what we had also was a higher-than-average volume being processed in the app, which is typically in the fourth quarter, and that increased the expenses of data processing and third-party services. We were able to keep a very tight leash on the advertising and marketing, which performed very well. And then on personnel expenses, as we had the different teams meeting their goals, we had more provisioning of variable expenses that hit that quarter. But we do think that we have the expenses under control.

蒂托 (Tito)，聖地亞哥 (Santiago) 在這裡稱讚 Xandre。因此，在第四季度，我們的應用程式處理量高於平均水平，這通常發生在第四季度，這增加了資料處理和第三方服務的費用。我們能夠嚴格控制廣告和行銷，效果非常好。在人事費用方面，由於我們不同的團隊都實現了他們的目標，因此我們對該季度的變動費用進行了更多的撥備。但我們確實認為我們已經控制了開支。

As Alexandre said, we are measuring absolutely everything on a high-frequency basis. And going to 2025, the overall expense growth will be a function of the revenue growth. So what we're solving for is an increase in the ROE, and we have variability or flexibility to adjust the expense base depending on the overall level of revenue in order to be able to deliver the bottom line that we expect to deliver. And finally, on the 60-30-30, the metric where we are ahead the most is this metric of the efficiency ratio. We were able to keep expense fully flat in year 1.

正如亞歷山大所說，我們正在以高頻率測量一切事物。到 2025 年，整體費用成長將與收入成長有關。因此，我們要解決的問題是提高 ROE，並且我們可以根據整體收入水準靈活地調整費用基礎，以便能夠實現我們期望的底線目標。最後，在 60-30-30 中，我們最領先的指標是效率比率指標。我們能夠在第一年保持支出完全持平。

So we actually run ahead of that in year 1. Year 2, it was 2024, the most significant improvement was on the NIM. For 2025, we expect it to be a combination of both to deliver the growing profitability.

因此，我們實際上在第一年就已領先於此目標。第二年，也就是 2024 年，最顯著的改善是在 NIM 上。到 2025 年，我們預計兩者將相結合，帶來不斷增長的獲利能力。

Okay. And then just on the capital with the -- how do you think about the capital ratio in Brazil and the excess capital at the holding?

好的。然後就資本而言—您如何看待巴西的資本比率和控股公司的超額資本？

Okay. Tito, Joao speaking here regarding capital on Brazil, abroad and also, I think you mentioned dividend. So first of all, this has been a top priority for me for a while, how we allocate the best possible way our equity, not only at the hold level, but also in Brazil. We have designed the holdco structure to optimize that, and that's the reason why we are paying (spoken in foreign language) IOC every month to have most of our equity at the hold level. Regarding Brazil, the CET1 at 15% should be -- would have been 170 bps higher if we deduct the mark-to-market on our NTN-B position.

好的。蒂托，若昂在這裡談到巴西的資本和海外資本，另外，我想您也提到了股息。因此首先，這一直是我的首要任務，我們如何以最佳方式分配我們的股權，不僅在持有層面，而且在巴西。我們設計了控股公司結構來優化這一點，這也是為什麼我們每月都要支付（用外語來說）IOC 來將我們的大部分股權保持在控股水平的原因。至於巴西，如果我們扣除 NTN-B 部位的市價，那麼 15% 的 CET1 利率應該會高出 170 個基點。

So that said, we will be pretty much flat quarter-over-quarter. At the end of the day, Tito, we want to leverage more our bank operation in Brazil as much as we can with discipline, bringing the best return for our shareholders. We want to keep deploying our capital, not only on liquidity, not buying treasury bonds. We want to put on the FGTS, on the Payroll loans. So that's what we have been doing recently.

因此，我們的季度環比成長將基本持平。歸根結底，蒂托，我們希望盡可能在紀律嚴明的情況下充分利用我們在巴西的銀行業務，為股東帶來最佳回報。我們要繼續部署我們的資本，不僅僅是流動性，也不是購買國債。我們希望將 FGTS 納入薪資貸款。這就是我們最近一直在做的事情。

So I'm very, very optimistic about the returns that this deployment of capital will bring us such as the 15%, 20% ROE, most likely at the end of 2025. On dividends, we do pay dividends. As we mentioned, we paid dividends actually today, we announced 1.5%, 1.8% dividend yield, which for the shareholder is still not a good one, but we're working to get our dividend yield as big as possible. This is the most relevant thing for our shareholders. But on the other hand, we are a growth company.

因此，我對此次資本部署將為我們帶來的回報感到非常樂觀，例如最有可能在 2025 年底實現 15%、20% 的 ROE。至於股息，我們確實會支付股息。正如我們所提到的，我們今天實際上支付了股息，我們宣布的股息收益率為 1.5%、1.8%，對於股東來說，這仍然不是一個好結果，但我們正在努力盡可能提高股息收益率。這對我們的股東來說是最重要的事。但另一方面，我們是一家成長型公司。

We're still deploying most of our earnings to keep innovating and growing the portfolio and expanding our operations. So this is how we see the capital allocation at Inter today. And it's a thing that we are always evaluating what's the best allocation for our shareholders.

我們仍將大部分收益用於持續創新、擴大投資組合和拓展業務。這就是我們今天看到的國際米蘭的資本配置。我們始終在評估如何為我們的股東提供最佳的分配。

Gustavo Schroden, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Gustavo Schroden。

Congrats on the results. My -- the first question is regarding -- still a follow-up on NIM. I'd like to understand you showed that your loan-to-deposit ratio is at 75%, so if we compare with the average of the -- especially the incumbent banks or large banks, you still have room to increase this leverage. So what should we think about this loan-to-deposit ratio in 2025 and 2026? Should we believe that there is some increase in this loan-to-deposit ratio to the same level of incumbent banks?

恭喜你所取得的成果。我的第一個問題是關於——仍然是對 NIM 的後續關注。我想了解的是，您表明您的貸款與存款比率為 75%，因此，如果我們與平均水平進行比較——特別是與現有銀行或大型銀行相比，您仍然有增加這種槓桿率的空間。那麼，我們該如何看待2025年和2026年的貸存比呢？我們是否應該相信，貸存比會上升，達到現有銀行的水平？

And my second question is regarding asset quality, another good quarter in terms of NPLs and asset quality indicators. Cost of risk around 5% -- [5.1%.] What should we expect for 2025 in terms of cost of risk?

我的第二個問題是關於資產品質的，從不良貸款和資產品質指標來看，今年又是一個好的季度。風險成本約為 5% - [5.1%]。

Santiago here. Thank you for the question. So -- on NIM, it's hard to predict the loan-to-deposit ratio. But what we have been able to see is that on the deposit side, we continue to surprise ourselves on the upside, both in terms of the growth rate as well as in terms of the mix. Now, we've been challenged that how long we could keep the mix as a -- mix, the low-cost funding as a percentage of CI.

這裡是聖地牙哥。感謝您的提問。因此，就淨利差而言，很難預測貸存比。但我們已經能夠看到，在存款方面，無論是成長率還是結構方面，我們都繼續以令人驚訝的速度成長。現在，我們面臨的挑戰是，我們能夠將這種組合維持多久——低成本融資佔 CI 的百分比。

And as the years go by, we are able to keep it. So what we see is that the clients continue to choose Inter primarily because of the transactional essence of the Super App, which is reflected on them having their core deposits at Inter. And another proxy of that, that we mentioned a lot to investors is the market share of PIX, which is high and increasing.

隨著時間的流逝，我們能夠保留它。因此，我們看到客戶繼續選擇 Inter 主要是因為超級應用程式的交易本質，這反映在他們將核心存款放在 Inter 上。我們經常向投資者提到的另一個指標是 PIX 的市場份額，該份額很高且還在增加。

This quarter, it increased to 8.3%. So all this to say that we would imagine the loan-to-deposit ratio to stay roughly at this level, potentially going up to something closer to 80% we did like to see the growth in the deposits per active client reaching BRL2,000 this quarter. And as that continues to happen together with the ROE-driven marginal allocation of capital, we would expect the NIM to continue trending in the same trend that we had in 2024, as I mentioned in a prior question.

本季度，這一比例上升至8.3%。因此，我們認為貸款與存款比率將大致保持在這個水平，有可能上升到接近 80% 的水平，我們確實希望看到本季度每位活躍客戶的存款成長率達到 2,000 巴西雷亞爾。而且隨著這種情況繼續發生，再加上 ROE 驅動的資本邊際配置，我們預計 NIM 將繼續呈現與 2024 年相同的趨勢，正如我在先前的問題中提到的那樣。

In terms of asset quality, we have a few pieces playing out. On the one hand, we continue to allocate certain products that tend to take the delinquency levels to better levels, like, for example, FGTS, home equity and real estate. But we are taking marginal risk on the unsecured lines, which are risk-adjusted NIM accretive, but they do increase the cost of risk. So we will see which of those two impacts prevails.

在資產品質方面，我們已經做好了一些工作。一方面，我們持續分配某些有助於降低拖欠率的產品，例如 FGTS、房屋淨值和房地產。但我們在無擔保額度上承擔了邊際風險，這些無擔保額度經過風險調整後會增值，但它們確實會增加風險成本。因此我們將看到這兩種影響中的哪一種會佔上風。

But overall, we don't see a major change in either direction up or down in the cost of risk of 5% to 5.2% that we've seen in 2024.

但總體而言，我們並沒有看到風險成本在 2024 年出現的 5% 至 5.2% 的上升或下降方向上出現重大變化。

Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的尤里‧費南德斯。

Joao, Xandre, and Santi, I have one more detail here on tax on revenues. It was a little bit higher this quarter on this. And for sure, you had higher revenues, but the ratio was higher. And when we look, it's the order inside the tax on revenue. So if you can explain what drove this, if this is sustainable or not, like just for us and the shareholders to understand the line of tax on revenues?

Joao、Xandre 和 Santi，我這裡還想再詳細介紹一下有關所得稅的問題。本季這數字略高。當然，你的收入更高，但比率也更高。我們看一下，這是所得稅內部的秩序。那麼，您能否解釋一下是什麼導致了這種現象，這種現像是否可持續，就像讓我們和股東了解所得稅的界線一樣？

And if I may ask a second question here is on fees. It has been a good quarter for fees, interchange and commissions, they are doing fine in banking and credit commission. So if you can provide some color on what to expect for fees in 2025, I would also appreciate.

我可以問第二個問題，是關於費用的。本季的費用、交換費和佣金表現良好，他們在銀行業務和信貸佣金方面表現良好。因此，如果您能提供一些有關 2025 年費用預期的詳細信息，我將不勝感激。

And finally, just a follow-up on Tito's on dividends. Joao, do you really think paying dividends is that important for investors because you are a, the way I see it, this is a growth company. Your ROE is moving up, and that's good. But should not be able -- should it not be better to keep the dividend inside of Inter given the growth you have?

最後，讓我們來跟進一下 Tito 關於股利的問題。若昂，你真的認為支付股息對投資人來說那麼重要嗎？你的 ROE 正在上升，這是好事。但不應該能夠——考慮到你們的成長，將紅利留在國際米蘭內部不是更好嗎？

So on taxes, Yuri, thank you for the question there. So what led to the increase in the PIS/COFINS this quarter were two factors. One, the natural growth in revenues. In addition to that, we paid IOC or (spoken in foreign language) like this in Portuguese in this quarter in a number of close to BRL160 million, which creates PIS/COFINS, which is approximately 70% of what we paid in the entire year. We had a bigger payment in the quarter that, as a consequence, led to a higher IOC, which we think will normalize to prior quarters in the -- starting in this first quarter of 2025.

關於稅收，尤里，謝謝你提出這個問題。那麼，導致本季 PIS/COFINS 增加有兩個因素。一是收入自然成長。除此之外，本季我們支付了近1.6億巴西雷亞爾的IOC（即葡萄牙語中的外語），這產生了PIS/COFINS，約占我們全年支付金額的70%。我們在本季度支付了更大的金額，因此導致了更高的 IOC，我們認為從 2025 年第一季開始，這將與前幾季的情況正常化。

Xandre, will take the second one.

Xandre，將獲得第二個。

Yuri, thank you for the question. So on fee income, we saw nice results in 2024 as per all the work we've been doing in hyper-personalization and launching products that are in the context of our clients' needs. And we see 2025 as a year to keep this trend. So we're diving more into all these hyper-personalized experiences, getting better and better on the choices that we make on products and where to sell, which product in the journeys that we already have in the app. We saw that through the results of the marketplace, which grew a lot in GMV and revenue, and we had also impressive results in the insurance front. So we see similar trends in 2025, and we'll keep working to push the limits that we can there.

尤里，謝謝你的提問。因此，就費用收入而言，根據我們在超個人化和推出符合客戶需求的產品所做的所有工作，我們在 2024 年看到了良好的表現。我們認為 2025 年將是維持這一趨勢的一年。因此，我們正在深入研究所有這些超個人化的體驗，在產品選擇、銷售地點和應用程式中已有的旅程中的產品方面做得越來越好。我們透過市場成果看到了這一點，GMV 和收入都有了很大的成長，而且我們在保險方面也取得了令人矚目的成就。因此，我們在 2025 年會看到類似的趨勢，我們將繼續努力突破極限。

Yuri, Joao speaking here. So going back to the dividend topic, it's fun because I have two heads here, controlling shareholder and CEO of the company. So on one side, I'd like to say that the essence of a company is to reward all the shareholders for the capital that they have invested in that company. So we tend to pay -- I would love to pay the highest dividend yield on the market. We know that, as you mentioned, we are still a growth story.

尤里，若昂，我在這裡講話。回到股息話題，這很有趣，因為我這裡有兩個腦袋，即公司的控股股東和執行長。因此，一方面，我想說，公司的本質是獎勵所有股東在公司中投入的資本。因此我們傾向於支付——我願意支付市場上最高的股息收益率。我們知道，正如您所說，我們仍處於成長階段。

And therefore, myself with the head of the CEO of the company, we try to bring the payout ratio down. As long as we can keep continue building organic capital, so above the threshold that we believe is the cost of the capital in Brazil or whatever. So let's put this 13%, 15% ratio, we will be able to increase that payout throughout the time. I'd like to say that we are designing Inter to be in a sense, an asset-light platform. We do have our credit portfolio that's growing, as we mentioned, 25%-ish.

因此，我自己和公司執行長一起，試圖降低派息率。只要我們能夠繼續建立有機資本，那麼我們認為高於門檻的就是巴西的資本成本或其他什麼。因此，讓我們把這個比例設為 13%、15%，我們將能夠隨著時間的推移增加支出。我想說，從某種意義上來說，我們正在將 Inter 設計成一個輕資產平台。我們的信貸組合確實在成長，正如我們所提到的，成長了 25% 左右。

But connecting to your questions regarding fees, we're very proud of having 30% of the revenues on the fee side. So as long as we can generate fresh equity, new capital, we can have the fee income kicking in, we will be able to keep paying dividends on this 20%, 25%-ish pattern without sacrificing the growth and the innovation at Inter. So that's how I try to balance and to do the right arbitrage generating long-term value for all the shareholders of and not only short-term value for any type of shareholder.

但關於您關於費用的問題，我們非常自豪 30% 的收入來自費用方面。因此，只要我們能夠產生新的股本、新的資本，我們就能夠獲得費用收入，我們就能夠繼續以這種 20%、25% 左右的模式支付股息，而不會犧牲國際米蘭的成長和創新。這就是我嘗試平衡並進行正確套利的方式，為所有股東創造長期價值，而不僅僅是為任何類型的股東創造短期價值。

It is clear. I asked this because I think you mentioned like yield was super important and the 20%, 25% payout you historically pay, I don't think it sacrificed growth, right, being blank honest with you. But when you said like dividend yield is something super important, I was a little bit concerned that you could do a higher payout or something like this, and it seems not to be the case.

很明顯。我問這個問題是因為我認為你提到過收益率非常重要，而你過去支付的 20%、25% 的股息，我不認為它犧牲了增長，對吧，說實話。但是當你說股息殖利率非常重要時，我有點擔心你是否會提供更高的股息或類似的東西，但事實似乎並非如此。

So just confirm this. And as you said, I guess your ROE will move up over time, and that's fine, and you can pay more dividends in the future. But just trying to make sure like the 20%, 25% is somewhat the softer guidance you see for the payout. And thank you for the clarity.

因此只需確認這一點。正如您所說，我猜您的 ROE 會隨著時間的推移而上升，這很好，您將來可以支付更多的股息。但只是想確保像 20% 或 25% 這樣的賠付指導數字是比較寬鬆的。感謝您的澄清。

Eric Ito, Bradesco BBI.

艾托（Eric Ito），Bradesco BBI。

I have two on my side as well. My first one is regard -- is a follow-up on your NIM expansion of 20 bps per quarter, as you mentioned, for 2025. I just wanted to see your expectations maybe on the breakdown of this mix. First, what you see for -- how much would be for funding, if you see any pressure for your cost of funding as a percentage of CDI potentially increasing because of competition?

我這邊也有兩個。我的第一個問題是 — — 正如您所提到的，這是對您在 2025 年每季 20 個基點的 NIM 擴張的後續關注。我只是想看看您對這個混音的細分有何期望。首先，您認為——如果您認為由於競爭導致 CDI 百分比增加，融資成本將面臨壓力，那麼需要多少資金？

Then the second is still on this topic, how much your Treasury results could be -- could grow in 2025? If you see on the fourth quarter, it already increased around BRL300 million. So if we just analyze this fourth quarter, it will be around 30%, 40% growth. So I just want to understand if that would be one of the main drivers for NIM expansion as well.

那麼第二個問題仍然是關於這個主題，到 2025 年，您的財務表現可以成長多少？如果你看一下第四季度，它已經增加了約 3 億雷亞爾。因此，如果我們只分析第四季度，成長率將在30％至40％左右。所以我只是想知道這是否也是 NIM 擴展的主要驅動力之一。

And then my second question is specifically on credit cards. There was a strong growth in this quarter, around 25% year-on-year. But I just want to explore a bit on your breakdown between transactor and non-transactor portfolio. I think it was the third quarter that we saw maybe a slight decrease in the share of the earning yield portfolio in the mix. I guess there's a bit of seasonality here in the fourth quarter maybe because of more debt. But I just want to get your sense as you're growing in consumer finance portfolio, I thought maybe this mix would be increasing in the total share of your credit cards. So I just want to get your sense on this trend and how we can expect this line to evolve going forward?

我的第二個問題是關於信用卡的。本季成長強勁，較去年同期成長約 25%。但我只是想稍微探討一下您對交易者和非交易者投資組合的細分。我認為在第三季度，我們看到收益投資組合中的份額可能略有下降。我想，第四季可能會出現一些季節性現象，可能是因為債務增加。但我只是想了解一下，隨著您的消費金融投資組合不斷增長，我認為這種組合在您的信用卡總份額中可能會增加。所以我只是想了解您對這一趨勢的看法以及我們可以預期這一趨勢未來將如何發展？

I will take the first one, Santiago here, and Xandre will take the second one on credit cards. So what we are assuming on the NIM evolution or the continuation, let's say, of the trend that we've experienced in 2024, it's the combination of three factors, as I mentioned. One is the mix will continue to get richer if you see [rural or] Agri business and SMEs, which are thinner margin products grew significantly less. And in the case of FGTS, home equity and real estate associated with inflation grew significantly more. So the mix is playing out a very strong role.

我將選擇第一個，Santiago 在這裡，而 Xandre 將使用信用卡選擇第二個。因此，我們對 NIM 演變或延續的假設，比如說，我們在 2024 年經歷的趨勢，是三個因素的結合，正如我所提到的。一是如果你看到[農村或]農業企業和中小企業，利潤較低的產品增長明顯較少，那麼結構將繼續變得更加豐富。而在FGTS案例中，與通膨相關的房屋淨值和房地產成長更為顯著。因此，這種混合發揮著非常重要的作用。

On the other hand, we continue to scale up for the consumer finance products and those are starting on a lower base but are beginning to yield nice returns. The average rate, both in the Buy Now, Pay Later and on the PIX Financing is around 6% per month. So it's a very attractive level and very attractive to pay the cost of risk that comes associated with it.

另一方面，我們持續擴大消費金融產品的規模，這些產品的起步基數較低，但已開始產生可觀的回報。先買後付和 PIX 融資的平均利率約為每月 6%。因此，這是一個非常有吸引力的水平，支付與之相關的風險成本也很有吸引力。

And then in terms of the funding cost, we are modeling that we will continue in the mid-60s. We will see how the mix affects this, but we don't expect to deviate too much to something around the mid-60s as a percentage of CDI. The factor that we didn't talk before that I'd add here is that we already have around BRL4 billion of the Treasury liquidity invested in what we call the structured notes that are tax exempt, and this yield around 85% of CDI. So in the NIM, it appears penalized in a way because the benefit of those notes are in the effective tax rate below.

就融資成本而言，我們預計該數字將維持在 60 年代中期。我們將觀察這種混合會如何影響這一點，但我們預計 CDI 的百分比不會偏離太多，大約在 60 年代中期。我想在這裡補充的一個我們之前沒有談到的因素是，我們已經將約 40 億巴西雷亞爾的國庫流動性投資於我們所謂的免稅結構性票據，其收益率約為 CDI 的 85%。因此，在 NIM 中，它似乎在某種程度上受到了懲罰，因為這些票據的收益在於下面的有效稅率。

But we did add in the press release, and you can probably see that on page 14, we have around 30 bps of additional NIM that comes from the tax adjustment of those notes. So the impact on NIM is further there. And into 2025, we expect to continue growing that portfolio of structured notes as the balance sheet grows, proportionate to the growth of the balance sheet.

但我們確實在新聞稿中添加了內容，您可能在第 14 頁看到，我們有大約 30 個基點的額外 NIM，這些 NIM 來自這些票據的稅收調整。因此，對 NIM 的影響還遠遠不止於此。到 2025 年，我們預計隨著資產負債表的成長，結構化票據的投資組合將繼續成長，與資產負債表的成長成比例。

And that's another thing that we -- is playing a key role in the evolution of the NIM. I'll pass it to Xandre to about the credit price point.

這也是我們在 NIM 發展過程中扮演的關鍵角色。我會將其傳遞給 Xandre 以達到信用價格點。

Eric, so I'll start maybe complement a little bit on the cost of funding. So one thing that we developed that's super nice is like we have a good mix of transactional deposits and then the CDs and the LCIs. And within this transactional deposits, we're talking about 20 million people with very small balances. And when they want to invest, when they want the yields, we have the most complete platform to serve them with low-cost products, high-cost products as per their decision. And this has been like a secret to keep our cost of funding down.

艾瑞克，我可能會先稍微補充一下融資成本。因此，我們開發的非常好的一件事就是，我們將交易存款、CD 和 LCI 進行了很好的組合。在這些交易存款中，我們談論的是 2000 萬人的餘額非常少。當他們想要投資、想要收益時，我們有最完善的平台，根據他們的決定提供低成本產品或高成本產品。這就像是個秘密，可以降低我們的融資成本。

And we went through a few cycles of high interest rates and different competitive landscapes, and we've been able to keep this cost of funding low in this 60%, a little bit more level. Moving to the credit cards. The shape of the portfolio didn't change. So we finished 2024 with 80% being transactors about 5% -- close to 5% in PIX Financing and the remaining in the mix between revolving and installments, more skewed towards revolving, which is where a lot of the opportunity is, right, between this mix in PIX Financing, revolving and installments, we are focused on minimizing the revolving, which includes the delinquent and moving customers towards the installments. We've been implementing different solutions.

我們經歷了幾個高利率週期和不同的競爭格局，我們能夠將融資成本維持在60%左右的較低水準。轉向信用卡。投資組合的形態沒有改變。因此，到 2024 年，我們將有 80% 的貸款為交易者，其中約 5%（接近 5%）為 PIX 融資，其餘貸款為循環貸款和分期付款的組合，更偏向於循環貸款，這也是很多機會所在，在 PIX 融資、循環貸款和分期付款的組合之間，我們專注於盡量減少循環貸款，其中包括讓客戶拖欠的分期付款。我們一直在實施不同的解決方案。

So for example, in September -- end of September, we implemented an interest rate differential. So that's more favorable to customers to go into installments instead of going to revolving. And we have to remember that typically from revolving to delinquent is faster than from installments to delinquent. So that's kind of what we're doing. We want to change the shape of the portfolio a little bit, increasing the interest-earning part.

例如，在九月至九月底，我們實施了差別利率。因此，對於客戶來說，分期付款比循環付款更有利。我們必須記住，通常從循環到拖欠的速度比從分期付款到拖欠的速度要快。這就是我們正在做的事情。我們想稍微改變一下投資組合的形態，增加賺取利息的部分。

So that would reduce a little bit from the 80 in transactors to, say, 78, maybe 75 throughout 2025. Thanks, Eric.

因此，到 2025 年，交易者的數量將從 80 人減少一點，減少到 78 人，或許是 75 人。謝謝，埃里克。

Just one quick follow-up, if I may, on Santi's answer. So maybe for going forward, as you guys expand the portfolio, as you mentioned Santi, that maybe we could still see some addition of structured notes at 85% of CDI, which benefits you with the taxation. Later, can we say that the percentage of yield as a percentage of CDI could decrease on the securities for 2025 because of this effect? Maybe you're going to capture on better taxes, but on the securities portfolio, we could see maybe a slight decrease as a percentage of CDI?

如果可以的話，我只想對桑蒂的回答做一個快速的跟進。因此，也許就未來而言，隨著你們擴大投資組合，正如你提到的桑蒂，也許我們仍然可以看到 85% CDI 的結構化票據的增加，這對你們的稅收有利。那麼，我們是否可以說，由於這種影響，2025 年證券的收益率佔 CDI 的百分比可能會下降？也許你會獲得更好的稅收，但在證券投資組合中，我們可能會看到 CDI 的百分比略有下降？

No, because the growth in the structured notes should be proportional to the growth of the balance sheet. So we expect the yield on the loan portfolio -- on the investment portfolio to remain relatively stable. We did have some catch up on some investments that we could use to increase the yield. We have the weight of the NTMBs that are approximately BRL3.8 billion that is decreasing because the investment portfolio size is increasing. So when you put all that together, we expect it to remain roughly at the same level that we had in this fourth quarter, Eric

不是，因為結構化票據的成長應該與資產負債表的成長成正比。因此，我們預期貸款組合和投資組合的收益率將保持相對穩定。我們確實對一些可以用來提高收益的投資進行了一些補充。我們的非流動資產負債表權重約為 38 億巴西雷亞爾，由於投資組合規模不斷增加，這項權重正在減少。因此，綜合考慮所有這些因素，我們預計其收入將與第四季度大致持平，埃里克

Pedro Leduc, Itau BBA.

佩德羅·勒杜克（Pedro Leduc），伊塔烏 BBA。

First question on credit cards, still a bit. We saw interest income on them falling this quarter despite what you mentioned is a stable mix of transactors and not. If you can elaborate a little bit on that, if it's a strategy of lowering rates and if you're seeing its sensitivity of volumes picking up in regards to that? And that's the first question.

關於信用卡的第一個問題，還有一點。儘管您提到交易者組合穩定，但我們發現本季的利息收入有所下降。您能否稍微詳細說明一下，這是否是一種降低利率的策略，以及您是否發現其交易量敏感度對此有所上升？這是第一個問題。

And then second, just a quick technical one. There was a gains of capital or others of BRL39 million this quarter, just making sure that what was is related to Inter Pag and if it was cash or not.

第二，簡單說一個技術問題。本季的資本或其他收益為 3,900 萬巴西雷亞爾，只是確保這些收益與 Inter Pag 有關，以及是否為現金。

Leduc, this is Xandre speaking. Thank you for your question. So I'll kind of complete the answer of Eric. So as I mentioned, 80% of the portfolio is on transactors, the 20% is mix, which is like 25% PIX Financing and 50% Revolving and Delinquent and 25% in Installments. And so what we need to do, which is our main mission and opportunity to improve the P&L of the credit cards is to increase this interest-earning portfolio, reducing the amount of clients that are delinquent and moving more of them to installments.

萊杜克，我是 Xandre。感謝您的提問。因此我將完成 Eric 的回答。正如我所提到的，80% 的投資組合是交易者，20% 是混合，即 25% 為 PIX 融資，50% 為循環和拖欠融資，25% 為分期付款。因此，我們需要做的，也就是我們改善信用卡損益的主要任務和機會，就是增加這個賺取利息的組合，減少拖欠還款的客戶數量，並讓更多的客戶選擇分期付款。

As I mentioned, in the end of September, I believe, we implemented an interest rate differential which was mainly driven to like reduce the interest rate on the installment part piece of the portfolio. What's the short-term effect that we expected to have by doing this change? We push people into a lower yield product, still super high rate. We're talking like we moved it from 14.9% to 11.9%, but a lower rate. So it was expected to have a period where we would see smaller revenues.

正如我所提到的，我相信在九月底我們實施了一項利率差異政策，主要是為了降低投資組合中分期付款部分的利率。我們預期這項改變會在短期內產生什麼效果？我們向人們推銷收益較低的產品，但利率仍然很高。我們說的是將其從 14.9% 降至 11.9%，但利率較低。因此，預計我們會經歷一段收入減少的時期。

This was by design. But we expect that as we have more and more customers that are not in delinquency, we're going to increase these revenues through time. That's the strategy. And then there is a super large list of things like collection products, collection policies and different things that we're doing in the end of the day to help customers get out of the hardships that they may be going through in terms of their financial lives. Thank you.

這是設計使然。但我們預計，隨著我們擁有越來越多不拖欠還款的客戶，我們的收入將隨著時間的推移而增加。這就是策略。然後，我們還會列出一系列清單，例如收款產品、收款政策以及我們最終要做的不同事情，以幫助客戶擺脫他們在財務生活中可能遇到的困難。謝謝。

And Leduc, on the capital gains question, yes, it is related to the Inter Pag acquisition. We performed a purchase price allocation study which was finalized in the fourth quarter. And as a consequence of that, we booked BRL30 million of recognition in the fourth quarter. That is the one you're mentioning.

萊杜克，關於資本利得問題，是的，這與 Inter Pag 的收購有關。我們進行了採購價格分配研究，並於第四季度完成。因此，我們在第四季度獲得了 3000 萬巴西雷亞爾的認可。這就是你提到的那個。

Neha Agarwala, HSBC.

Neha Agarwala，匯豐銀行。

Sorry if I'm making you repeat any of your things, but two questions. First on the Consumer Finance portfolio. How is the asset quality evolving versus your expectations? And what kind of growth should we expect for 2025 for this particular portfolio?

抱歉，如果我讓你重複任何事情，但我有兩個問題。首先是消費金融投資組合。資產品質相對於你的預期如何改變？那麼，我們預期這個特定的投資組合到 2025 年會達到什麼樣的成長呢？

And my second question is on private payroll. We are seeing some changes in this particular domain. Is this an area of interest for Inter and could you see growth coming as it becomes easier to operate in the private payroll market?

我的第二個問題是關於私人薪資單。我們看到這個特定領域的一些變化。這是國際米蘭感興趣的領域嗎？

Neha, Joao speaking here. I'm going to do the first and Santi will do the second one. So Consumer Finance, I have been sharing with the market, with our shareholders and with most of the markets, how excited we are here at Inter to, I would say, reinvent the consumer finance in Brazil. So we have this consumer 2.0 approach, as we say. We coined this term actually, and it's working well.

Neha，Joao，我在這裡發言。我要做第一件，桑蒂要做第二件。因此，關於消費金融，我一直在與市場、與我們的股東以及與大多數市場分享，我們國際金融公司對重塑巴西的消費金融感到非常興奮。正如我們所說，我們有這種消費者 2.0 方法。實際上，我們創造了這個術語，並且它運作良好。

It's working really well here, Neha. So we have the Buy Now, Pay Later. So we combine the success of the GMV in our shopping in our commerce platform with our capabilities of [connecting] credit to our consumers. As of today, the delinquency for this portfolio is lower than the delinquency of the credit card. Guys that are using our credit card on the streets.

這裡運作得非常好，Neha。因此，我們有「先買後付」的政策。因此，我們將商務平台購物中 GMV 的成功與我們為消費者提供信貸的能力結合在一起。截至今日，該投資組合的拖欠率低於信用卡的拖欠率。在街上使用我們的信用卡的人。

For that product, we have a very good take rate from the merchants that reward us for being the one giving credit to their clients. We have also a very good down payment upfront around 20% to 25% of the price of the product or the service. So this is something that we're doing under the radar, but we're very excited with this product. And I believe that we are the one ahead because we have this combination of commerce and finance here at Inter. So we have a very positive trends for 2025 as well.

對於該產品，我們從商家那裡獲得了非常好的收益，商家因為我們向其客戶提供信貸而獎勵我們。我們還設有非常優的預付款，約佔產品或服務價格的 20% 至 25%。這是我們秘密做的事情，但我們對這個產品感到非常興奮。我相信我們是領先的，因為在國際米蘭，我們擁有商業和金融的結合。因此，我們對 2025 年的趨勢也非常樂觀。

But again, always underwriting and checking the collection, checking the delinquency to make sure that we're not doing anything wrong. On PIX Finance, also, we have been seeing good prints in terms of delinquency, also better than the credit cards. As we evolve, Neha, we see that more and more, we're trying to bring the credit underwriting for consumer finance inside our ecosystem, getting all the data that we capture from our shopping, from our PIX and bring them to our ecosystem in order to improve. So we have a positive view for this type of credit underwriting. At the end of the day, having the best risk/reward equation.

但再次強調，我們始終要承保並檢查收款情況，檢查拖欠情況，以確保我們沒有做錯任何事。在 PIX Finance 上，我們也看到了拖欠率的良好表現，甚至比信用卡更好。Neha，隨著我們的發展，我們越來越多地看到，我們正嘗試將消費金融的信用承保納入我們的生態系統，獲取我們從購物、從 PIX 捕獲的所有數據，並將它們帶入我們的生態系統以便進行改進。因此，我們對這種類型的信用承保持積極看法。最終，獲得最佳的風險/回報方程式。

That's what we look at the end of the day, the best risk reward equation for our portfolio. So we are very positive on these two products and very excited with the Consumer Finance 2.0 approach. And Santi now will cover the other question.

這就是我們最終要考慮的，也就是我們的投資組合的最佳風險回報方程式。因此，我們對這兩款產品非常看好，並對消費金融 2.0 方法感到非常興奮。現在桑蒂將回答另一個問題。

Joao, just quickly on that, any targets that you can share with us that you might have in mind?

若昂，請簡單談談這個問題，可以與我們分享您心中的目標嗎？

Yes, Neha, actually, 4Q, 7% of our GMV was purchased through our Buy Now, Pay Later. We don't know if it's going to go up to 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%. Actually, we have a working group at Inter really, really focused on that to make sure that the delinquency that we see today will persist that we're not looking on a -- that we're not too optimistic about that. But we really think that we are cracking the code on this consumer finance. So hard to give a guidance.

是的，Neha，實際上，第四季度，我們 7% 的 GMV 是透過「先買後付」的方式購買的。我們不知道它是否會升至 10%、15%、20%、25%。實際上，國際米蘭有一個工作小組非常非常關注這個問題，以確保我們今天看到的違約現象能夠持續下去，我們對此並不太樂觀。但我們確實認為我們正在破解消費金融的密碼。很難給出指導。

But again, so far, good delinquency and good reward, very good reward, good take rates from the industry. The industry needs to reward us, the bank, for our ability to provide credit. So this combination has been performing very well. This is a concept that we envisioned, I'd say, maybe three or four years ago. And again, Inter approach is always step by step, step by step, underwriting, collecting and learning, but I'm very optimistic about this product.

但是，到目前為止，拖欠率和回報都不錯，回報非常好，行業的盈利率也不錯。產業需要獎勵我們銀行提供信貸的能力。因此，這種組合的表現一直都非常好。我想說，這是我們大概三、四年前設想的概念。再說一次，Inter 的方法總是循序漸進，承保、收集和學習，但我對這款產品非常樂觀。

Neha, thank you for your question. And quickly filling in on Joao's point on the Consumer Finance 2.0. We're excited about what we did in 2024. And one of the things that we've been focusing both on credit cards and on the Consumer Finance 2.0 is on driving the outcome of delinquency. If we can drive the outcome, we feel more comfortable in growing, and we're seeing that.

Neha，謝謝你的提問。並快速補充了Joao關於消費金融2.0的觀點。我們對 2024 年所取得的成就感到非常興奮。我們在信用卡和消費金融 2.0 上關注的重點之一就是如何減少拖欠債務。如果我們能夠推動結果，我們就會更加樂意成長，而且我們正在看到這一點。

So every time we see early-stage delinquency, we've been able to adjust policies, adjust models and drive the outcome on the next reading, and that makes us comfortable to keep with a steady growth in the portfolio. Moving to the payroll loan -- to the private payroll loans. We see that a super promising new addressable market. We're estimating a market between BRL100 billion and BRL200 billion to begin with. The precedent that we set on the FGTS loans being able to do like more than 500,000 contracts a month without a single human intervention is strong to believe that we can be a very competitive player.

因此，每次我們看到早期拖欠的情況，我們就能夠調整政策、調整模型，並在下一次讀數中推動結果，這使我們能夠放心地保持投資組合的穩定成長。轉向薪資貸款－私人薪資貸款。我們看到了一個非常有前景的新目標市場。我們估計初始市場規模在 1,000 億至 2,000 億雷亞爾之間。我們在 FGTS 貸款上開創的先例是，每月無需任何人工幹預就能完成超過 500,000 份合同，這讓我們堅信我們可以成為非常有競爭力的參與者。

We're going to be ready on day one. So whenever this product is there, we're going to be there on the very first day, something that we didn't do on the FGTS, by the way. So we're going to start on day one. And finally, there is still a lot of information missing so that we can give more color. So as time progresses and the government unveils the details, I'm sure we're going to be talking more and be able to better estimate what's the impact of that in our business. Thank you.

我們將在第一天做好準備。所以無論什麼時候推出這款產品，我們都會在第一天就到場，順便說一句，這是我們在 FGTS 上沒有做過的事情。因此我們將從第一天開始。最後，仍然缺少大量信息，以便我們可以提供更多細節。因此，隨著時間的推移和政府公佈細節，我相信我們將進行更多討論，並能夠更好地估計這對我們業務的影響。謝謝。

Very clear. Just quickly on the GMV for the marketplace, despite strong seasonality in the fourth quarter, we did not see a big pickup in the GMV. Any reason for that?

非常清楚。簡單回顧市場 GMV，儘管第四季季節性因素較強，但我們並未看到 GMV 出現大幅成長。有什麼原因嗎？

So sorry, Neha, could you repeat because you were breaking a little bit?

非常抱歉，Neha，你能再說一次嗎，因為你有點崩潰了？

On the marketplace business, typically, fourth quarter has strong seasonality. We did not see a big pickup in the GMV for the marketplace in fourth quarter sequentially. Is there any specific reason for that?

對於市場業務來說，通常第四季度具有很強的季節性。我們沒有看到第四季市場 GMV 環比大幅成長。有什麼特別的原因嗎？

Neha, we actually had a big spike in 4Q, which I agree is a very good seasonality for it. And when you look year-over-year, we grew almost 40% on the GMV for the marketplace. And also, more and more, we're starting to develop new service offerings, not only goods offerings there. So we believe that combined goods and service, we can keep growing the GMV on this 40%-ish, 50%-ish year-over-year. So very excited with the success of the Inter Shopping initiative that started five years ago.

Neha，我們實際上在第四季度出現了大幅增長，我同意這是一個非常好的季節性現象。與去年同期相比，我們的市場 GMV 成長了近 40%。而且，我們開始越來越多地開發新的服務產品，而不僅僅是商品產品。因此，我們相信，綜合商品和服務，我們的 GMV 可以保持 40% 到 50% 左右的同比增長。我對五年前啟動的 Inter Shopping 計畫的成功感到非常興奮。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the floor back over to Mr. Joao Vitor Menin for his closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想把發言權交還給若昂·維托爾·梅寧先生，請他作最後發言。

Again, everyone, thanks for taking the time to listen to our earnings call. We're beginning 2025 on our end, everyone excited, energized, focused on delivering, I would say, a very strong year for Inter as we did in 2024. Thank you very much. See you soon. Bye-bye.

再次感謝大家抽空聆聽我們的財報電話會議。我們即將迎來 2025 年，每個人都興奮不已，充滿活力，專注於為國際米蘭帶來輝煌的一年，就像我們在 2024 年所做的那樣。非常感謝。再見。再見。

This conference has now concluded. Inter IR area is at your disposal to answer any additional questions. Thank you for attending today's presentation. Have a nice day.

此次會議現已結束。Inter IR 區域隨時為您解答任何其他問題。感謝您參加今天的演講。祝你今天過得愉快。