Inogen Inc (INGN) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Inogen's third-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded today, November 7, 2024.

歡迎參加 Inogen 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次會議將於今天（2024 年 11 月 7 日）錄製。

I would now like to turn the call over to Ryan Peterson, Investor Relations.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係部的 Ryan Peterson。

Thank you, all, for participating in today's call. Joining me are President and CEO, Kevin Smith; and CFO, Mike Bourque. Earlier today, Inogen released financial results for the third quarter of 2024. This earnings release is available in the Investor Relations section of the company's website, along with a supplemental financial package.

感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。與我一起的還有總裁兼執行長凱文史密斯 (Kevin Smith)；和財務長麥克·布爾克。今天早些時候，Inogen 發布了 2024 年第三季的財務表現。此收益報告以及補充財務方案可在公司網站的投資者關係部分取得。

As a reminder, the information presented today will include forward-looking statements, including, without limitation, statements about our growth prospects and strategy for 2024 and beyond, expectations related to our financial results for the full year 2024, progress of our strategic initiatives, including innovation, our expectations regarding the market for our products, on our business and supply and demand for our products in both the short term and long term.

提醒一下，今天提供的資訊將包括前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於關於我們 2024 年及以後的成長前景和策略的陳述、與我們 2024 年全年財務業績相關的預期、我們策略舉措的進展、包括創新、我們對產品市場、我們的業務以及我們產品的短期和長期供需的期望。

The forward-looking statements in this call are based on information currently available to us as of today's date, November 7, 2024. These forward-looking statements are only predictions and involve risks and uncertainties that are set forth in more detail in our most recent periodic reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

本次電話會議中的前瞻性陳述是基於截至今天（2024 年 11 月 7 日）我們目前所掌握的資訊。這些前瞻性陳述僅是預測，涉及我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期報告中更詳細闡述的風險和不確定性。

Actual results may vary, and we disclaim any obligations to update these forward-looking statements, except as may be required by law.We have posted historical financial statements and our investor presentations in the Investor Relations section of the company's website. Please refer to these files for more detailed information.

實際結果可能會有所不同，我們不承擔更新這些前瞻性陳述的任何義務，除非法律要求。請參閱這些文件以獲取更多詳細資訊。

During the call, we will also present certain financial information on a non-GAAP basis. Management believes that non-GAAP financial measures taken in conjunction with US GAAP financial measures provide useful information for both management and investors by excluding certain noncash items and other expenses that are not indicative of Inogen's core operating results.

在電話會議期間，我們也將提供某些非公認會計原則的財務資訊。管理層認為，結合美國公認會計準則財務措施採取的非公認會計準則財務措施為管理層和投資者提供了有用的信息，排除了某些非現金項目和其他不代表 Inogen 核心經營業績的費用。

Management uses non-GAAP measures internally to understand, manage and evaluate our business and make operating decisions. Reconciliations between US GAAP and non-GAAP results are presented in tables within our earnings release.

管理階層在內部使用非公認會計準則衡量標準來了解、管理和評估我們的業務並做出營運決策。我們的收益報告中的表格中列出了美國公認會計原則和非公認會計原則結果之間的調節表。

With that, I will turn the call over to Inogen's President and CEO, Kevin Smith.

接下來，我會將電話轉給 Inogen 的總裁兼執行長 Kevin Smith。

Good afternoon, and thank you for joining our third-quarter 2024 conference call. During today's call, I will review our third-quarter performance and provide an update on our progress towards our three strategic priorities: driving top-line growth, advancing our path to profitability, and expanding our innovation pipeline. I will then turn the line to Mike for a full review of our financials and outlook.

下午好，感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第三季電話會議。在今天的電話會議上，我將回顧我們第三季的業績，並提供我們在實現三個策略重點方面的最新進展：推動營收成長、推進獲利之路以及擴大我們的創新管道。然後我會將電話轉給麥克，讓他全面審查我們的財務狀況和前景。

I'm pleased to share that we are making great progress against our strategic initiatives, beginning with our progress on driving top line growth. In the third quarter, we delivered on this objective by achieving $89 million in total revenue, reflecting 6% year-over-year growth. Our performance was led by strong POC sales through our business-to-business channels, where we drove over 20% year-over-year revenue growth for the second consecutive quarter.

我很高興地告訴大家，我們的策略舉措正在取得巨大進展，首先是推動營收成長。第三季度，我們實現了這一目標，實現了 8,900 萬美元的總收入，年增 6%。我們的業績得益於 B2B 通路強勁的 POC 銷售，我們連續第二個季度實現了超過 20% 的年收入成長。

We continue to expand our relationships with new and existing customers as patients and providers increasingly recognize the benefits that our solutions provide over other oxygen therapies and appreciate our quality, ease of servicing and eight-year service life. In particular, we are having success taking and expanding share within the accounts of some of our largest customers.

隨著患者和醫療服務提供者越來越認識到我們的解決方案相對於其他氧氣治療的優勢，並欣賞我們的品質、易於維修和八年的使用壽命，我們將繼續擴大與新舊客戶的關係。特別是，我們在一些最大客戶的帳戶中成功地佔據並擴大了份額。

Turning to our direct-to-consumer sales channel, we saw year-over-year declines as we continue to operate with a downsized and streamlined sales force. Although our revenue is down, we are pleased that this channel is becoming more profitable as a result of our cost structure and careful management. As we complete our first full year with the smaller team and move into 2025, we anticipate better year-over-year performance.

談到我們的直接面向消費者的銷售管道，隨著我們繼續縮小和精簡銷售隊伍，我們看到了同比下降。儘管我們的收入下降了，但我們很高興由於我們的成本結構和精心管理，該管道的利潤正在變得更高。隨著我們以較小的團隊完成第一個全年並進入 2025 年，我們預計會有更好的同比表現。

DTC is a core part of our business model, and we are working diligently to bring it back to growth. As part of these efforts within the DTC business, we continue to advance our previously announced hospital and patient first pilot programs. On the patient first pilot, we are still in the process of expanding the program out, but we are pleased with the effects we have seen thus far and anticipate it will be fully rolled out in the first half of 2025.

DTC 是我們業務模式的核心部分，我們正在努力使其恢復成長。作為 DTC 業務中這些努力的一部分，我們繼續推進先前宣布的醫院和患者優先試點計劃。對於患者優先試點，我們仍在擴展該計劃，但我們對迄今為止所看到的效果感到滿意，並預計該計劃將在 2025 年上半年全面推出。

Our hospital pilot is still being evaluated for effectiveness, and we will share updates as they become available. These programs, along with a host of other improvements we have made to the organization's structure and strategy are a large part of our efforts to reposition Inogen for long-term sustainable and profitable growth.

我們的醫院試點計畫仍在評估其有效性，我們將在更新後分享。這些計劃以及我們對組織結構和策略所做的許多其他改進是我們重新定位 Inogen 以實現長期可持續和盈利增長的努力的重要組成部分。

Before I move on to talk about our next strategic priorities, I would like to highlight the recent addition of Eric Pauls to our team as Vice President of North American Sales. Eric joined us in early September, and we are excited for the two-plus decades of experience he brings to our sales force.

在我繼續談論我們的下一個策略重點之前，我想強調最近任命 Eric Pauls 作為北美銷售副總裁加入我們的團隊。艾瑞克 (Eric) 於九月初加入我們，我們對他為我們的銷售團隊帶來的二十多年的經驗感到興奮。

In addition to his years of experience, Eric brings a number of strong relationships from his years of leadership in the respiratory field. And as part of our efforts to reduce friction between our business channels and scale overall growth, Eric is now managing both the rental and domestic business-to-business channels, marking a change from our prior sales structure in which separate leaders managed our business-to-business, direct-to-consumer, and rental channels. We believe this change will improve alignment across our business and ensure that we are directing every customer and patient to the right resources for sales to be completed successfully.

除了多年的經驗之外，埃里克還憑藉其在呼吸領域多年的領導地位而建立了許多牢固的關係。作為我們減少業務管道之間的摩擦和擴大整體成長的努力的一部分，埃里克現在同時管理租賃和國內企業對企業管道，這標誌著我們以前的銷售結構發生了變化，在這種結構中，單獨的領導者管理我們的業務-對企業、直接對消費者和租賃管道。我們相信這項變更將改善我們整個業務的一致性，並確保我們引導每位客戶和患者找到正確的資源，以成功完成銷售。

I will now discuss our progress on our second strategic priority to reach sustained profitability. During the quarter, we generated $3 million of positive cash flow, strengthening our already resilient balance sheet. This marks our second consecutive quarter of positive cash flow, a testament to our team's focus on ensuring every dollar spent is being allocated to position Inogen for growth.

我現在將討論我們在第二個策略重點上的進展，以實現持續盈利。本季度，我們產生了 300 萬美元的正現金流，增強了我們本已富有彈性的資產負債表。這標誌著我們連續第二個季度實現正現金流，證明了我們團隊致力於確保花費的每一美元都分配給 Inogen 的成長。

We also achieved a second consecutive quarter of adjusted EBITDA profitability. While we still expect to end the second half of 2024 with an adjusted EBITDA loss, this is proof that our strategy, portfolio, and team can achieve long-term profitability.

我們也連續第二季實現調整後 EBITDA 獲利。雖然我們仍預期 2024 年下半年會出現調整後 EBITDA 虧損，但這證明我們的策略、投資組合和團隊能夠實現長期獲利。

Part of our efforts to achieve this long-term profitability have been through our initiatives to improve gross margin. These include second sourcing our raw materials to ensure we are reducing costs, production streamlining, and implementing even more rigorous quality control to minimize defects and product returns. Programs like these are just one part of our strategy, but we are seeing the benefits paying off and continue to expect to see this going into next year.

我們實現長期獲利能力的部分努力是透過提高毛利率的措施來實現的。其中包括二次採購原料，以確保我們降低成本，簡化生產，並實施更嚴格的品質控制，以最大限度地減少瑕疵和產品退貨。這類計劃只是我們策略的一部分，但我們正在看到收益得到回報，並繼續期望在明年看到這一點。

On the topic of operating expenses, we have continued to see rising advertising costs due to the excess demand for TV spots in advance of the election. As a result, we have reduced some campaigns that were not returning value to the organization. This decision is emblematic of our efforts to evaluate the return on every dollar invested in the business.

在營運費用方面，由於選舉前對電視廣告的需求過剩，我們持續看到廣告成本不斷上漲。因此，我們減少了一些無法為組織帶來價值的活動。這項決定象徵著我們努力評估投資於業務的每一美元的回報。

Finally, I would like to share updates on our innovation pipeline. We recently announced the launch of the Rove 4, our newest POC. Weighing less than 3 pounds, the Rove 4 delivers power and performance in the lightest weight and highest oxygen output four-setting POC in the market.

最後，我想分享我們創新管道的最新動態。我們最近宣布推出最新的 POC Rove 4。Rove 4 重量不到 3 磅，是市場上重量最輕、氧氣輸出量最高的四檔 POC，提供動力和性能。

Alongside this are new features, including up to 840 milliliters of medical-grade oxygen per minute and up to 5 hours and 45 minutes of battery life. These innovations advance our mission to deliver the highest quality of life possible for patients, allowing them to remain ambulatory for as long as possible while undergoing oxygen therapy.

除此之外，還有新功能，包括每分鐘高達 840 毫升的醫用級氧氣和長達 5 小時 45 分鐘的電池續航力。這些創新推進了我們的使命，為患者提供盡可能高的生活質量，使他們在接受氧氣治療時能夠盡可能長時間地保持活動狀態。

With respect to Simeox, we continue to have very productive discussions with the FDA. And as we've stated before, we'll provide a formal update upon clearance. We remain committed to investing in innovation to drive growth in our business and expand our ability to serve patients with respiratory conditions around the world as well as our business customers.

關於 Simeox，我們繼續與 FDA 進行非常有成效的討論。正如我們之前所說，我們將在獲得許可後提供正式更新。我們仍然致力於投資創新，以推動我們的業務成長，並擴大我們為世界各地患有呼吸系統疾病的患者以及我們的商業客戶提供服務的能力。

We are making significant progress against our strategic priorities and are taking meaningful steps towards profitability, in addition to introducing another leading POC to the market and expanding the capabilities and network of our sales team.

除了向市場推出另一個領先的 POC 並擴大我們銷售團隊的能力和網絡之外，我們在戰略重點方面正在取得重大進展，並正在採取有意義的步驟實現盈利。

I will now turn the call over to Mike for a more detailed review of our financial results. Mike?

我現在將把電話轉給麥克，以便對我們的財務表現進行更詳細的審查。麥克風？

Thank you, Kevin, and good afternoon, everyone. Unless otherwise noted, all financial comparisons are to the prior year comparable period. Total revenue for the third quarter of 2024 was $88.8 million, an increase of 5.8% compared to the prior year.

謝謝你，凱文，大家下午好。除非另有說明，所有財務比較均與上一年可比較期間進行比較。2024年第三季總營收為8,880萬美元，較上年成長5.8%。

The increase was primarily driven by higher domestic and international business-to-business sales, partially offset by lower direct-to-consumer sales and rental revenue. For the third quarter, foreign exchange had a negative 20 basis points impact on total revenue and a negative 70 basis points impact on international revenue.

這一成長主要是由於國內和國際企業對企業銷售的成長所推動，但部分被直接面向消費者的銷售和租賃收入的下降所抵消。第三季度，外匯對總收入產生了 20 個基點的負面影響，對國際收入產生了 70 個基點的負面影響。

Looking at third quarter revenue on a more detailed basis, direct-to-consumer sales decreased 23.2% to $19.2 million from $25.1 million in the prior period as we continue to operate with a smaller and more efficient team. As Kevin mentioned, we look forward to completing our first full year with this team in place and positioning the D2C business for better performance into the years ahead.

更詳細地觀察第三季的收入，由於我們繼續以更小、更有效率的團隊運營，直接面向消費者的銷售額從上一時期的 2510 萬美元下降了 23.2% 至 1920 萬美元。正如 Kevin 所提到的，我們期待在這個團隊到位的情況下完成我們的第一個完整年度，並定位 D2C 業務，以便在未來幾年取得更好的業績。

Domestic business-to-business revenue increased 35.1% to $23.4 million versus $17.3 million in the comparable period, driven by increased demand from new customers and resellers. International business-to-business revenue increased 26.2% to $32.3 million compared to $25.6 million in the prior period, primarily driven by increased demand with new and existing customers. Rental revenue decreased 13.1% to $13.9 million from $16 million in the prior period, primarily driven by continued lower average billing rates due to the mix shift to private payers.

受新客戶和經銷商需求增加的推動，國內 B2B 收入成長 35.1%，達到 2,340 萬美元，而同期為 1,730 萬美元。國際企業對企業收入成長 26.2%，達到 3,230 萬美元，而上一時期為 2,560 萬美元，這主要是由於新客戶和現有客戶的需求增加所致。租金收入從上一期的 1,600 萬美元下降 13.1% 至 1,390 萬美元，主要是由於混合轉向私人付款人導致平均帳單費率持續下降。

Now on to discuss our gross margins, total gross margin was 46.5%, increasing 630 basis points from the same period in the prior year, primarily driven by lower premiums paid for raw material components, partially offset by sales channel mix. As shared on our second quarter call, we expect gross margins to be in the low to mid-40s in the second half of the year.

現在討論我們的毛利率，總毛利率為 46.5%，比上年同期增長 630 個基點，主要是由於原材料組件支付的溢價較低，部分被銷售管道組合所抵消。正如我們在第二季電話會議上分享的那樣，我們預計下半年的毛利率將在 40 左右左右。

Sales revenue gross margin was 47.2%, an increase of 1,000 basis points, driven primarily by a reduction in premium priced components, partially offset by the continued mix shift towards business-to-business sales. Rental revenue gross margin was 43.2%, a decline of 990 basis points, driven by continued mix shift towards private payer reimbursement, lower net revenue per rental patient and higher service costs.

銷售收入毛利率為 47.2%，成長了 1,000 個基點，這主要是由於高價零件的減少所致，但部分被持續向企業對企業銷售的組合轉變所抵消。租賃收入毛利率為 43.2%，下降 990 個基點，原因是持續向私人付款人報銷、每位租賃患者淨收入下降以及服務成本上升推動。

Moving on to operating expense, in the third quarter, total operating expense decreased to $49.1 million compared to $80.5 million in the prior period, representing a decrease of 39%. Third quarter 2023 results included onetime impairment charges of $32.9 million. When excluding the impact of this charge, total operating expenses of $49.1 million increased 3.2% from $47.6 million. This increase was primarily related to increased personnel-related expenses and higher advertising costs.

營運費用方面，第三季總營運費用從上一季的 8,050 萬美元下降至 4,910 萬美元，下降了 39%。2023 年第三季業績包括 3,290 萬美元的一次性減損費用。排除此項費用的影響後，總營運費用為 4,910 萬美元，比 4,760 萬美元增加了 3.2%。這一增長主要與人員相關費用增加和廣告費用增加有關。

In the third quarter of 2024, we reported a GAAP net loss of $6 million compared to a loss of $45.7 million in the third quarter of 2023 and a loss per diluted share of $0.25 versus a loss of $1.97 in the third quarter of 2023. On an adjusted basis, we had a net loss of $2.6 million compared to a loss of $8.5 million in the comparable period and an adjusted loss per diluted share of $0.11 compared to a loss of $0.36 in the third quarter of 2023. Adjusted EBITDA was a positive $0.5 million in the third quarter of 2024 compared to a loss of $5.5 million in the prior year period.

2024 年第三季度，我們報告的 GAAP 淨虧損為 600 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季為虧損 4,570 萬美元，攤薄後每股虧損為 0.25 美元，而 2023 年第三季為虧損 1.97 美元。在調整後的基礎上，我們的淨虧損為 260 萬美元，而同期的虧損為 850 萬美元，調整後每股攤薄虧損為 0.11 美元，而 2023 年第三季的虧損為 0.36 美元。2024 年第三季調整後 EBITDA 為正 50 萬美元，而去年同期為虧損 550 萬美元。

Moving on to our balance sheet, as of September 30, 2024, we had cash, cash equivalents, marketable securities and restricted cash of $124.3 million with no debt outstanding. As Kevin mentioned, this marks the second consecutive quarter of cash generation as we continue to diligently manage and strengthen our balance sheet.

看看我們的資產負債表，截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日，我們擁有現金、現金等價物、有價證券和限制性現金 1.243 億美元，沒有未償債務。正如凱文所提到的，隨著我們繼續努力管理和加強我們的資產負債表，這標誌著連續第二季產生現金。

Before turning the line back to Kevin, I would like to share an update to our revenue expectations for the full year 2024. Based on our progress in this quarter and the available outlook today, we are raising our full year 2024 revenue expectations to be within $329 million to $331 million, reflecting approximately 4% to 5% year-over-year growth. In addition, for the back half of the year, we continue to expect gross margins in the low to mid-40s and an overall adjusted EBITDA loss.

在回覆 Kevin 之前，我想分享一下我們對 2024 年全年收入預期的最新情況。根據我們本季的進展和今天的展望，我們將 2024 年全年營收預期上調至 3.29 億美元至 3.31 億美元之間，年增約 4% 至 5%。此外，我們預計今年下半年的毛利率將在 40 左右左右，整體調整後 EBITDA 將出現虧損。

And with that, I'll pass the call back to Kevin for closing remarks.

然後，我會將電話轉給凱文，讓其結束語。

In a week from now, I will have the privilege of being the CEO of Inogen for a year. And while we have just recently cemented our leadership team in place, I am thrilled with the progress we have made thus far. There's much work to be done, but our team is performing at a high level, and I'm very optimistic for what the end of 2024 and 2025 holds in store for Inogen. With that, I will open it up for questions. Operator?

一週後，我將有幸擔任 Inogen 一年的執行長。雖然我們最近剛剛鞏固了我們的領導團隊，但我對我們迄今為止所取得的進展感到興奮。還有很多工作要做，但我們的團隊表現出色，我對 2024 年底和 2025 年 Inogen 的前景非常樂觀。至此，我將開放提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Robbie Marcus, JPMorgan.

（操作員指示）Robbie Marcus，摩根大通。

Hi. This is actually Rohin on for Robbie. Just maybe starting with DTC. I was hoping you could give a little bit more color on the sales force and specifically just around the size and productivity heading into 2025. Just want to -- and also kind of going off of that, I just want to understand what the strategy is given the downsized sales force to get the business back to growth potentially next year and beyond.

你好。這其實是羅辛為羅比做的。也許只是從 DTC 開始。我希望您能夠對銷售隊伍提供更多的信息，特別是關於 2025 年銷售隊伍的規模和生產力。只是想 - 而且也有點偏離這一目標，我只是想了解在縮小銷售人員規模的情況下採取什麼策略，以使業務在明年及以後恢復增長。

Thanks, Rohin. I'll start with that. This is Kevin. I appreciate the question. When we look at the size of the sales force on a year-over-year basis, we are down, which is as planned, as we've talked about in some of the previous calls. We are looking at increased productivity per rep compared to some of the recent historic levels, and that's a positive. We start to see that trend up.

謝謝，羅欣。我將從那開始。這是凱文.我很欣賞這個問題。當我們逐年查看銷售隊伍的規模時，我們發現我們正在下降，這是按計劃進行的，正如我們在之前的一些電話會議中談到的那樣。與最近的一些歷史水平相比，我們正在考慮提高每位代表的生產力，這是積極的。我們開始看到這種趨勢上升。

And as we're looking outward on the DTC, remember, that's one where we have focused on the patient first initiative as well as making sure that we're rightsizing and evaluating how we're spending our advertising dollars to continue to build that up.

當我們展望 DTC 時，請記住，我們專注於患者第一的倡議，並確保我們正在調整規模並評估我們如何花費廣告資金以繼續建立這項倡議。

So this has been a rebase year for DTC. We've been through that third quarter in the middle of that rebase. And so we have positive outlooks for this going forward. But we won't be getting into that full rollout of the patient first program until we hit -- until the first half of next year.

因此，今年是 DTC 的基準年。我們已經經歷了第三季的基礎調整。因此，我們對此前景抱持正面的看法。但在明年上半年之前，我們不會全面推出「病人至上」計畫。

Got it. And it was also nice to see some top line momentum in the quarter as well as another quarter of positive free cash flow. So I just wanted to ask about your expectations for both the top and bottom line into 2025. And specifically, just around cash flow generation from here. Do you think this is something that's probably more sustainable here on out? And what are some of the puts and takes?

知道了。很高興看到本季的一些營收勢頭以及另一個季度的正自由現金流。所以我只想問一下您對 2025 年收入和利潤的期望。具體來說，就是從這裡產生現金流。您認為這可能是更永續的事嗎？哪些是看跌期權？

Rohin, this is Mike. Yes, in terms of cash generation, clearly, we're really happy with the fact that we have the second consecutive quarter of positive cash generation. I think a lot of this, really, kind of gets back to, as Kevin talked about executing on our strategic initiatives, looking at that top line growth, path to profitability, the innovation pipeline.

羅辛，這是麥克。是的，就現金產生而言，顯然，我們對連續第二季實現正現金產生感到非常高興。我認為這其中很多內容實際上都可以追溯到凱文談到執行我們的策略計畫、關注營收成長、獲利之路和創新管道時。

But getting to those first two, I guess, really, it's -- we've been talking about investing in the business wisely, smart, at the same time, diligently managing our P&L, ensuring we're generating profitable growth, higher gross margins. Kevin also talked about some of the things we're doing on the cost of goods sold reduction initiatives, some of the things that we're looking at there. And really just getting back to what we said about managing our cost structure and CapEx, always looking at ways to manage our working capital and improve cash flow.

但談到前兩個，我想，實際上，我們一直在談論明智地投資業務，同時勤勉地管理我們的損益表，確保我們實現盈利增長和更高的毛利率。凱文也談到了我們在降低銷售商品成本方面正在做的一些事情，以及我們正在研究的一些事情。實際上，回到我們所說的有關管理成本結構和資本支出的內容，始終尋找管理營運資本和改善現金流的方法。

In terms of -- if you're looking at kind of forward-looking, we're not guiding to where we expect our cash to be. But what I can say is if you're looking at where are we from a perspective of quarter-over-quarter, we're going into Q4, which is typically a seasonally impacted, particularly in D2C, we're expecting to see. And we've talked about that a little bit more of an impact of more difficulty in generating some leads as a result of some of the advertising experiences that we're seeing and expecting to see.

就前瞻性而言，我們並沒有指導我們的現金預期。但我可以說的是，如果你從季度環比的角度來看我們的情況，我們將進入第四季度，這通常會受到季節性影響，特別是在 D2C 領域，我們預計會看到這一情況。我們已經討論過，由於我們正在看到和期望看到的一些廣告體驗，產生一些潛在客戶變得更加困難，這會產生更多的影響。

So I guess if you look at that and you look at the positive EBITDA for two quarters, positive cash for two quarters, looking at our two strongest quarters, which are typically Q2 and Q3. So again, we'll continue to focus in on making sure we're investing money into the business, doing it in a smart way, controlling our cost structure, managing OpEx, managing CapEx.

所以我想，如果你看看兩個季度的正 EBITDA，兩個季度的正現金，看看我們最強勁的兩個季度，通常是第二季和第三季。因此，我們將繼續專注於確保我們以明智的方式向業務投資，控制我們的成本結構，管理營運支出，管理資本支出。

Mike Matson, Needham.

麥克馬森，李約瑟。

Yes. Thanks. So I guess just following up on the commentary around the DTC rep headcount. So I guess, just trying to figure out when that would sort of stabilize. So in other words, like what quarter will it be where you're lapping the year-over-year change in that headcount is basically flat? Like how far out is that from like the third quarter that you just reported?

是的。謝謝。所以我想只是跟進有關 DTC 代表人數的評論。所以我想，只是想弄清楚什麼時候會穩定下來。換句話說，你會在哪一個季度看到員工數量基本上持平的年比變化？距離您剛報告的第三季還有多遠？

Yes. So as we look where we are on the third quarter and going forward, we feel like we've got a pretty good handle on the rep count and what it takes to be profitable from that standpoint. This channel, we are seeing improved productivity. As I mentioned, we're seeing improved profitability coming from the channel. And the number of reps that we have in there right now, we feel pretty good, as I was saying, about that.

是的。因此，當我們審視第三季度和未來的情況時，我們覺得我們已經很好地掌握了代表數量以及從這個角度來看如何實現盈利。透過這個管道，我們看到生產力的提升。正如我所提到的，我們看到該管道的盈利能力有所提高。正如我所說，我們現在在那裡的代表人數，我們感覺很好。

So on a year-on-year basis, you'll still see us going into the beginning of next year, probably being a little bit under where we started, but getting into the -- getting that back at the middle part of next year where we see it continue to be steady.

因此，與去年同期相比，你仍然會看到我們進入明年初，可能會比我們開始時的水平略低一些，但會在明年中期恢復到這一水平我們看到它繼續保持穩定。

Okay. Got it. All right. And then just on Simeox, I wanted to see if you could clarify what you said. Because I thought you said something that you're talking to FDA, and you'll provide an update upon clearance. So my interpretation of that, and this might be wrong, but would be that you've submitted something for clearance and clearance -- using the word clearance implies a 510(k), I think, but I don't know. Am I understanding that correctly? Or am I missing something?

好的。知道了。好的。然後就在 Simeox 上，我想看看你能否澄清你所說的話。因為我認為您所說的內容是您正在與 FDA 交談的內容，並且您將在獲得許可後提供更新資訊。所以我對此的解釋，這可能是錯誤的，但可能是你已經提交了一些需要許可和許可的東西——我認為，使用“許可”一詞意味著 510(k)，但我不知道。我的理解正確嗎？還是我錯過了什麼？

Generally speaking, there, what -- certainly, we've been asked a lot about the timing on Simeox. And so what we've been doing is giving the indication and the sharing that we've had positive interactions with the FDA. We have not illustrated any further what the nature of that is, and we haven't confirmed that we filed with the FDA.

一般來說，當然，我們被問到很多關於 Simeox 的時間安排的問題。因此，我們一直在做的是表明並分享我們與 FDA 的積極互動。我們沒有進一步說明其性質，也沒有確認我們已向 FDA 備案。

But I said in some of -- I think, in our previous call that we are going to be providing an update once we do have that regulatory pathway completed. In other words, if the FDA has given us clearance. But Mike, I know we've talked also about the financial statements and how that kind of points to that outlook.

但我在之前的電話會議中說過，一旦我們確實完成了監管途徑，我們將提供更新。換句話說，如果 FDA 給了我們許可。但是麥克，我知道我們也討論了財務報表以及這如何表明這種前景。

Yes, Kevin. And so I can add just a little bit of that. I think folks understand that we do have an earn-out agreement with the Physio-Assist acquisition. We disclosed this information in the 10-Q. So if you kind of get -- trying to get a general idea in terms of how things are going, that earn-out is maxed at $13 million. We continue to accrue. We're at about $11.9 million through Q3.

是的，凱文。所以我可以補充一點。我想大家都明白，我們確實與 Physio-Assist 收購達成了收益協議。我們在 10-Q 中披露了此資訊。因此，如果你試圖了解事情進展的整體情況，那麼你的收益最高可達 1300 萬美元。我們繼續累積。截至第三季度，我們的營收約為 1,190 萬美元。

So I guess all I could say would be that when you see the accrual continuing to increase, it just means we're progressing. But it's -- as Kevin said, we'll talk more about that when we actually get the clearance. But I think that gives an indication of kind of how we're moving forward with this.

所以我想我能說的是，當你看到應計費用持續增加時，這只是意味著我們正在取得進展。但正如凱文所說，當我們真正獲得許可時，我們會更多地討論這個問題。但我認為這表明了我們將如何推進這項工作。

Okay. All right. And then just, I guess, Rove 4, I mean, it seems like a great product based on the specs. So I mean, how is that being received across the different channels? And is that something that's more -- it seems like that's more geared probably the DTC side than the B2B side but let me know if that's wrong.

好的。好的。然後，我想，Rove 4，我的意思是，從規格來看，它似乎是一款很棒的產品。所以我的意思是，不同管道的接收情況如何？似乎這更適合 DTC 方面，而不是 B2B 方面，但如果這是錯誤的，請告訴我。

No, that's pretty spot on there. And it's -- so the Rove 4, we do see that being an influential piece of our business as we're going forward, but that will be more of a 2025 versus '24 since we've just launched it. But as you said, the play for that will be in the US market, it will be more interesting in the DTC side.

不，那是一個很漂亮的地方。Rove 4 確實是我們未來業務中一個有影響力的部分，但自從我們剛剛推出它以來，這將更多地是 2025 年而不是 24 年。但正如你所說，這將在美國市場發揮作用，在 DTC 方面會更有趣。

So if you think about that, we're able to capture patients earlier in their disease state, take them on that first product, that first in the Rove series, the Rove 4 for a little bit longer since it has an additional setting and its characteristics versus the G4. So there's an opportunity there also as we initiate patients' treatment with the Rove 4 that if they do well, if they live long, but their disease progresses, then we could upgrade them in the future to the Rove 6. So that's a -- that we believe is an interesting play for us.

因此，如果您考慮到這一點，我們能夠在患者疾病狀態的早期捕獲患者，讓他們使用第一個產品，即Rove 系列中的第一個產品，即Rove 4，時間稍長一些，因為它有一個額外的設定和它的功能。因此，當我們開始使用 Rove 4 對患者進行治療時，如果他們表現良好，如果他們活得很長，但他們的疾病進展，那麼我們將來可以將他們升級到 Rove 6。所以我們認為這對我們來說是一場有趣的比賽。

On the B2B side, it would be more in the international than it would be for the domestic B2B business because in the B2B side, the HMEs, they tend to want to get a patient on one POC and have them stay in that POC for a longer period of time or reduces their investment. But the international markets have a little bit of a different view on that.

在 B2B 方面，國際 B2B 業務比國內 B2B 業務更重要，因為在 B2B 方面，HME 往往希望在一個 POC 上吸引患者，並讓他們在該 POC 中停留一段時間。但國際市場對此有一些不同的看法。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to conclude the call. Thank you, everyone, for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines.

目前沒有其他問題。我想結束這通通話。謝謝大家的參與。現在您可以斷開線路。