Informatica Inc (INFA) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon and thank you for joining the Informatica Inc fiscal Q4 2024 call. My name is Kate, and I will be the moderator for today's call. (Operator Instructions)

下午好，感謝您參加 Informatica Inc 2024 財年第四季電話會議。我叫凱特，我將擔任今天電話會議的主持人。（操作員指令）

I will now turn the call over to Victoria Hyde-Dunn, Vice President of Investor relations. Please proceed.

現在我將把電話轉給投資者關係副總裁維多利亞‧海德‧鄧恩 (Victoria Hyde-Dunn)。請繼續。

Thank you, Kate. Good afternoon and thank you for joining Informatica's fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. Joining me today are Amit Walia, Chief Executive Officer; and Mike McLaughlin, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，凱特。下午好，感謝您參加 Informatica 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。今天與我一起參加的是執行長 Amit Walia；以及財務長 Mike McLaughlin。

Before we begin, we have a couple of reminders. Our earnings press release and slide presentation are available on our investor relations website at investors.informatica.com. Our prepared remarks will be posted on the IR website after the conference call concludes.

在我們開始之前，我們有幾點提醒。我們的收益新聞稿和幻燈片簡報可在投資者關係網站 investors.informatica.com 上找到。電話會議結束後，我們準備好的發言將會發佈在 IR 網站上。

During the call, we will be making comments of a forward-looking nature. Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied as a result of various risks and uncertainties. For more information about some of these risks, please review the company's SEC filings, including the section titled Risk factors, including in our most recent 10-Q and 10-K filing for the full year 2023.

在通話中，我們將發表前瞻性的評論。由於各種風險和不確定性，實際結果可能與明示或暗示的結果有重大差異。有關其中一些風險的更多信息，請查看該公司的 SEC 文件，包括標題為“風險因素”的部分，其中包括我們最新的 2023 年全年 10-Q 和 10-K 文件。

These forward-looking statements are based on information as of today, and we assume no obligation to publicly update or revise our forward-looking statements except as required by law. Additionally, we will be discussing non-GAAP financial measures. These non-GAAP financial measures are in addition to and not a substitute for measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with GAAP.

這些前瞻性陳述是基於截至今天的信息，除非法律要求，否則我們不承擔公開更新或修改我們的前瞻性陳述的義務。此外，我們還將討論非公認會計準則財務指標。這些非 GAAP 財務指標是根據 GAAP 編制的財務績效指標的補充，而不是替代方案。

A reconciliation of these items to the nearest US GAAP measure can be found in this afternoon's press release and our slide presentation available on Informatica's investor relations website.

在今天下午的新聞稿和 Informatica 投資者關係網站上的幻燈片演示中可以找到這些項目與最接近的美國 GAAP 指標的對帳表。

With that, it is my pleasure to turn the call over to Amit.

現在，我很高興將電話轉給阿米特 (Amit)。

Thank you, Victoria, and welcome to everyone on the call. 2024 was a pivotal year for Informatica in our cloud-only consumption driven strategy. While we experienced overall momentum throughout the year, the fourth quarter did not unfold as anticipated. I will briefly explain why and ask Mike to provide additional details.

謝謝維多利亞，歡迎大家參加電話會議。 2024 年是 Informatica 實施純雲端消費驅動策略的關鍵一年。雖然我們全年整體表現良好，但第四季的表現並未如預期。我會簡單解釋原因，並請 Mike 提供更多細節。

To begin with, renewal rates were lower than forecast. As we worked through the complexity of our business model transformation to cloud only, some execution issues related to renewals were identified and are under way to be addressed. We have allocated customer success resources to this initiative and expect to resolve it throughout 2025.

首先，續約率低於預期。在我們努力將業務模式轉型為雲端運算的複雜過程中，我們發現了一些與續約相關的執行問題，目前正在著手解決。我們已為此計劃分配了客戶成功資源，並預計在 2025 年解決該問題。

Second, we saw a significant re-acceleration of cloud modernization deals this quarter and closed a record year for on-premises to cloud migrations. This development in itself is a very positive for the long-term and it creates more upsell and cross-sell opportunities for services on the IDMC platform.

其次，本季我們看到雲端現代化交易的顯著加速，並創下了本地到雲端遷移的創紀錄的一年。這一發展本身對於長期而言是非常積極的，它為 IDMC 平台上的服務創造了更多的追加銷售和交叉銷售機會。

However, it has two short term dynamics. Lower net new ARR due to the accounting treatment of the subscription credits we give customers during the migration period. And the roll off of migration related self-managed subscription ARR and maintenance ARR, which was higher than expected.

然而，它有兩個短期動態。由於我們在遷移期間向客戶提供的訂閱信用的會計處理，淨新 ARR 較低。與遷移相關的自管理訂閱 ARR 和維護 ARR 的增加高於預期。

Finally, we saw a reduction in the renewal term length for self-managed subscription contracts. While this does not affect ARR, it negatively impacts GAAP revenue due to ASC 606. This mainly arises from customers eager to start the cloud journey with us more quickly. It is happening faster than we anticipated, which is a positive sign again in the long term for our cloud business, but it negatively impacts GAAP revenue due to ASC 606 in the short term.

最後，我們看到自管理訂閱合約的續約期限縮短了。雖然這不會影響 ARR，但由於 ASC 606，它會對 GAAP 收入產生負面影響。這主要源自於客戶渴望與我們更快開始雲端之旅。這項變更比我們預期的要快，從長遠來看，這對我們的雲端業務來說又是一個正面的訊號，但由於 ASC 606，短期內它將對 GAAP 收入產生負面影響。

These factors along with lower professional services and foreign exchange headwinds led to outcomes that did not meet our forecast. As Mike will explain in greater detail when he provides 2025 guidance, we are adjusting our expectations to account for these factors and our growth and profitability projections.

這些因素，加上專業服務水準下降和外匯不利因素，導致結果未能達到我們的預測。正如麥克在提供 2025 年指導時將更詳細地解釋的那樣，我們正在調整我們的預期以考慮這些因素以及我們的成長和獲利預測。

Before turning to results, I'd like to take a minute to frame Informatica in the broader context of where we've been and where we are going. For those who have been with us since Informatica went public, we are now in the final phase of a transformation. When Informatica became private in 2015, we set out to create the most innovative solutions on the industry's first and only cloud native data management platform.

在談到結果之前，我想花一點時間來概括一下 Informatica 的過去和未來。對於那些自 Informatica 上市以來就一直與我們在一起的人來說，我們現在正處於轉型的最後階段。當 Informatica 於 2015 年私有化時，我們著手在業界第一個也是唯一的雲端原生資料管理平台上創造最具創新性的解決方案。

We achieved this goal and started selling our IDMC platform alongside our on-prem solutions a few years later. At the beginning of 2023, we marked the start of the final phase of our transformation strategy by announcing the end of sale of our on-prem products fully committing to a cloud-only consumption driven future state.

我們實現了這一目標，並在幾年後開始與我們的內部部署解決方案一起銷售我們的 IDMC 平台。2023 年初，我們宣布停止銷售本地產品，並全面致力於未來僅由雲端消費驅動的狀態，標誌著我們轉型策略最後階段的開始。

Navigating this third phase has been challenging at times. Sometimes the aforementioned factors, the underlying health of our cloud business and a cloud-only consumption-driven strategy remains very strong. Our large, high-growth cloud business is very healthy, even with our declining end of sale on-prem business.

有時，度過第三階段是很有挑戰性的。有時上述因素、我們雲端業務的基本健康狀況以及僅雲端消費驅動策略仍然非常強勁。即使我們的本地業務銷售端出現下滑，但我們龐大、高成長的雲端業務仍然非常健康。

To give you a few examples, in Q4, cloud subscription ARR grew 34% year over year, representing nearly half of our total ARR. We expect cloud subscription ARR to hit the $1 billion mark in 2025, accounting for almost 60% of total ARR by the end of the year.

舉幾個例子，第四季度，雲端訂閱 ARR 年比成長 34%，占我們總 ARR 的近一半。我們預計雲端訂閱 ARR 將在 2025 年達到 10 億美元大關，到年底將佔總 ARR 的近 60%。

In Q4, approximately 68% of cloud net new ARR in the trailing 12 months came from new cloud workloads and expansion, with approximately 40% of that growth coming from new customers to Informatica. We continue to expect the majority of our cloud growth to be net new wins for new cloud workloads amongst new and existing customers.

在第四季度，過去 12 個月中約 68% 的雲端淨新增 ARR 來自新的雲端工作負載和擴展，其中約 40% 的成長來自 Informatica 的新客戶。我們仍然預計，我們的大部分雲端成長將是新舊客戶新雲端工作負載的淨成長。

Our cloud net retention rate was 124% in the quarter, and we continue to see a healthy cloud pipeline. Cloud customer count grew by 8% for the year and the number of cloud ARR customers spending more than $1 million with Informatica grew by 59% year over year. The average cloud per customer was $335,000, growing 24% year over year.

本季我們的雲端淨留存率為 124%，並且我們繼續看到健康的雲端管道。雲端客戶數量年增了 8%，在 Informatica 上花費超過 100 萬美元的雲端 ARR 客戶數量年增了 59%。每位客戶的平均雲端運算費用為 335,000 美元，較去年同期成長 24%。

We closed a record year of on-prem to cloud migrations which grew 42% year over year within term expansion sales of IPOs nearly doubling. We won net new cloud deployment to some of the world's largest customers, including a US-based financial services company and an online travel technology company, expansion opportunities with Takata, Axis Bank, Lumen and Yamaha and modernization deals with the city of Austin, to name a few.

我們完成了創紀錄的從本地到雲端的遷移，年增 42%，IPO 的期限擴展銷售額幾乎翻了一番。我們贏得了一些全球最大客戶的全新雲端部署，其中包括一家美國金融服務公司和一家線上旅遊科技公司，與高田、Axis Bank、Lumen 和 Yamaha 的擴張機會以及與奧斯汀市的現代化交易，等等。

All of this was accomplished while delivering strong profitability. Full year 2024, non-GAAP operating income grew 16% year over year and adjusted unlimited free cash flow after tax grew 28% year over year.

所有這些都是在實現強勁盈利的同時實現的。2024 年全年非 GAAP 營業收入年增 16%，調整後稅後無限自由現金流年增 28%。

We continue to remain the innovation leader in the data management market. We have built the best data management products on the only AI powered data management platform supporting extremely difficult operational complex workloads and use cases that are multi-vendor, multi-cloud and hybrid.

我們持續保持數據管理市場的創新領先地位。我們在唯一的人工智慧資料管理平台上建立了最好的資料管理產品，支援極其困難的操作複雜工作負載和多供應商、多雲和混合用例。

Our position as the customer platform of choice for cloud data management is supported by industry recognition, including being named a leader in the inaugural 2025 Gartner Magic Quadrant for data and analytics governance platforms report and being named a leader in the 2024 Gartner Magic Quadrant for data integration tools for the 19th consecutive time.

我們作為客戶首選的雲端資料管理平台的地位得到了業界的認可，包括在首屆 2025 年 Gartner 資料和分析治理平台魔力像限報告中被評為領導者，以及連續第 19 次在 2024 年 Gartner 資料整合工具魔力像限中被評為領導者。

We deeply engaged with that ecosystem and hyper scalar partners, including over 650 GSI partners enhancing their practices on IDMC, issuing over 15,000 certifications in 2024, up from 12,000 the prior year.

我們與該生態系統和超標量合作夥伴進行了深入合作，包括 650 多家 GSI 合作夥伴，他們正在加強 IDMC 上的實踐，到 2024 年頒發的認證數量將從上一年的 12,000 份增加到 15,000 份。

Lastly, we remain confident in pursuing the $62 billion addressable cloud market according to IDC, and in our ability to successfully capture this opportunity to product innovation with our comprehensive IDMC platform with CLAIRE AI and GenAI capabilities. At the end of 2024, the IDMC platform processed over 110 trillion cloud transactions per month, which grew over 29% year over year.

最後，根據 IDC 的數據，我們仍然有信心進軍 620 億美元的潛在雲端市場，並且有能力利用具有 CLAIRE AI 和 GenAI 功能的綜合 IDMC 平台成功抓住這一產品創新機會。截至 2024 年底，IDMC 平台每月處理超過 110 兆筆雲端交易，較去年同期成長超過 29%。

With our enterprise customers, we empower them to use AI for data readiness and simplify the data escape with Informatica for GenAI and GenAI from Informatica, which are both available on the platform. With Informatica for GenAI, we now have about 100 customers using GenAI capabilities on IDMC.

透過我們的企業客戶，我們幫助他們利用 AI 進行資料準備，並透過平台上提供的 Informatica for GenAI 和 GenAI from Informatica 簡化資料傳輸。透過 Informatica for GenAI，我們現在有大約 100 個客戶在 IDMC 上使用 GenAI 功能。

IDMC capabilities these customers use for GenAI include data ingestion and processing, including unstructured data processing for rag pipelines, connect connectivity to LLNs and AI app orchestration. Informatica has previously announced AI blueprints for all hyperscalar plus snowflake and data breaks. Over the last four months, these customers have executed 270,000 calls or prompts to LLMs excluding CLAIRE GPT.

這些客戶用於 GenAI 的 IDMC 功能包括資料擷取和處理，包括 rag 管道的非結構化資料處理、與 LLN 的連接以及 AI 應用程式編排。Informatica 先前已公佈了針對所有超標量、雪花和資料斷點的 AI 藍圖。在過去的四個月中，這些客戶已向 LLM（不包括 CLAIRE GPT）執行了 270,000 次調用或提示。

Use cases we are seeing include business process optimization and automation, business insights and decision support, sentiment analysis, enterprise data retrieval and augmentation, to name a few.

我們看到的用例包括業務流程優化和自動化、業務洞察和決策支援、情感分析、企業資料檢索和增強等等。

To give you some great real life customer stories. One is a leading global biotech company which is building an AI agent framework with IDMC and Google Cloud, enabling users to quickly gain insights from internal systems. Utilizing IDMCs out of the box recipes for rapid deployment or development, these accelerate access to data driven insights, enhancing decision making, and speeding up business outcomes.

向您提供一些真實的客戶故事。One 是一家全球領先的生物科技公司，正在與 IDMC 和 Google Cloud 合作建立 AI 代理框架，使用戶能夠快速從內部系統獲得洞察。利用 IDMC 開箱即用的方法進行快速部署或開發，​​可以加速獲取資料驅動的洞察力，增強決策能力，並加快業務成果。

An insurance company is using our solutions for claim analysis and claim processing. A healthcare company is using Informatica products for patient engagement with the holistic health and program support. A California-based non-profit is developing a rag solution using local community data and resources powered by OpenAI and IDMC. This helps support center executives access relevant resources quickly, reducing cost and enhancing service quality. These are all pilot programs and will move to production over time.

一家保險公司正在使用我們的解決方案進行索賠分析和索賠處理。一家醫療保健公司正在使用 Informatica 產品來讓患者參與整體健康和計劃支援。一家位於加州的非營利組織正在利用由 OpenAI 和 IDMC 提供支援的當地社區數據和資源來開發 rag 解決方案。這有助於支持中心主管快速存取相關資源，降低成本並提高服務品質。這些都是試點項目，並將隨著時間的推移投入生產。

With GenAI from Informatica, we recently expanded CLAIRE GPT services across EMEA, Asia Pacific, and Canada, and 10% of our customers are now using CLAIRE GPT outside the United States. We are pleased to announce the extension of CLAIRE GPT services at no additional cost throughout 2025. This continuation of our 2024 promotion demonstrates our commitment to providing advanced AI capabilities while maintaining cost-effective solutions for our customers.

透過 Informatica 的 GenAI，我們最近將 CLAIRE GPT 服務擴展到歐洲、中東和非洲地區、亞太地區和加​​拿大，目前我們 10% 的客戶正在美國以外使用 CLAIRE GPT。我們很高興地宣布，CLAIRE GPT 服務將免費延長至 2025 年。我們繼續進行 2024 年促銷，表明我們致力於提供先進的 AI 功能，同時為客戶提供具有成本效益的解決方案。

Our product innovations are expanding on the IDMC platform with AI and GenAI capabilities, and we look forward to sharing more at our Informatica World Customer Conference in May.

我們的產品創新正在透過 AI 和 GenAI 功能在 IDMC 平台上進行擴展，我們期待在 5 月的 Informatica 全球客戶大會上分享更多內容。

In closing, we achieved significant progress in 2024. While we have much to execute in 2025 as we look to scale to $1 billion cloud ARR business, I am incredibly proud of the Informatica team. I would like to thank our partners, customers, and shareholders for their ongoing support.

最後，我們在 2024 年取得了重大進展。雖然我們在 2025 年還有很多事情要做，因為我們希望將雲端 ARR 業務擴展到 10 億美元，但我對 Informatica 團隊感到無比自豪。我要感謝我們的合作夥伴、客戶和股東的持續支持。

With that, let me turn the call over to Mike. Mike, please take it away.

說完這些，讓我把電話轉給麥克。麥克，請把它拿走。

Thank you, Amit, and good afternoon, everyone. The fourth quarter of 2024 did not meet our expectations, with key metrics falling short of our forecasts. Before diving into the numbers, I'd like to begin my remarks with a high-level discussion of the factors driving the mess. While the fundamentals of our cloud business remained strong, multiple factors did not play out as we expected.

謝謝你，阿米特，大家下午好。2024 年第四季未達我們的預期，關鍵指標未達到我們的預測。在深入探討這些數字之前，我想先從高層次討論一下造成這混亂的因素。儘管我們的雲端業務基本面依然強勁，但多種因素並未如我們預期的那樣發揮作用。

First, our renewal rates were lower than forecast. What we refer to as natural churn, which excludes the impact of customer migrations, increased by roughly 2 percentage points versus our forecasts for both cloud and self-managed subscriptions and by approximately [1.5 percentage point] for maintenance.

首先，我們的續約率低於預期。我們所謂的自然流失（不包括客戶遷移的影響）比我們對雲端和自我管理訂閱的預測增加了約 2 個百分點，而維護則增加了約 [1.5 個百分點]。

Second, we saw a significant re-acceleration of cloud modernization deals this quarter. As a result, the contribution of on-premise to cloud modernization deals as a percentage of total new cloud bookings was significantly higher than expected. Modernization deals were over one-third of our new cloud bookings in Q4 compared to the mid-20s in prior quarters.

其次，我們看到本季雲端現代化交易顯著加速。因此，內部部署對雲端現代化交易的貢獻佔總新雲端預訂量的百分比明顯高於預期。第四季度，現代化交易占我們新雲端訂單的三分之一以上，而前幾季則是25%左右。

While this result is consistent with our long-term cloud only strategy, and a good thing overall, in the short term, it results in lower net new ARR because of the accounting treatment of the maintenance and subscription credits we give to our customers during the migration period.

雖然這個結果符合我們長期的雲端策略，並且總體來說是一件好事，但從短期來看，由於我們在遷移期間向客戶提供的維護和訂閱信用的會計處理，它會導致淨新 ARR 降低。

The third key driver of lower than forecast, total ARR in Q4, was higher than expected roll off of modernization-related self-managed subscription and maintenance ARR. This reflected the success of our customer cloud modernizations being completed on time, which is a positive long term trend.

導致第四季度總 ARR 低於預期的第三個關鍵驅動因素是與現代化相關的自我管理訂閱和維護 ARR 的成長高於預期。這反映了我們的客戶雲端現代化已按時成功完成，這是一個積極的長期趨勢。

In addition to these three factors that impacted ARR, GAAP revenue was further impacted by a greater than forecast reduction in renewal term length for on-premise self-managed contracts. We saw this happening in Q2 this year, and we reduced our revenue forecasts at that time to reflect the trend. But in Q4, the average renewal term length continued to decline more than we expected.

除了上述三個影響 ARR 的因素之外，內部自管理合約續約期限縮短幅度超出預期，也對 GAAP 收入產生了進一步的影響。我們在今年第二季度看到了這種情況，並且我們當時下調了收入預測以反映這一趨勢。但在第四季度，平均續約期限持續下降，降幅超出我們的預期。

As I mentioned, we believe this reflects the fact that more of our customers are beginning to plan for modernization of their on-premise data workloads, which we expect will be positive for us in the future.

正如我所提到的，我們相信這反映了這樣一個事實：越來越多的客戶開始計劃對其內部部署資料工作負載進行現代化改造，我們預計這對我們未來將產生積極的影響。

Finally, lower than forecast professional services revenues impacted GAAP revenue, and unfavorable effects due to the strengthening of the US dollar in November were a headwind to both GAAP revenue and ARR.

最後，低於預期的專業服務收入影響了 GAAP 收入，而 11 月美元走強的不利影響對 GAAP 收入和 ARR 都造成了阻力。

So with that now let me get to the Q4 numbers starting with the total ARR. Total ARR finished the year at $1.73 billion, an increase of 6.1% over the prior year, which was 1% below the midpoint of our guidance. The growth was driven primarily by new cloud workloads and strong cloud net expansion with existing customers, as well as accelerating migrations from our on-prem base to cloud.

現在讓我從總 ARR 開始介紹第四季的數據。全年總 ARR 達到 17.3 億美元，較上年增長 6.1%，比我們預期的中位數低 1%。成長主要得益於新的雲端工作負載和現有客戶的強勁雲端網路擴張，以及從我們的本地基礎到雲端的加速遷移。

Foreign exchange rates negatively impacted total ARR by $2 million on a year-to-year basis for the fourth quarter and $3.8 million on a year over year basis for the full year. Next, cloud subscription ARR was $827 million, a 34% increase year over year. Cloud subscription ARR now represents 48% of total ARR, up from 38% a year ago.

外匯匯率對第四季的總 ARR 產生了負面影響，年減 200 萬美元，對全年產生了負面影響 380 萬美元。其次，雲端訂閱 ARR 為 8.27 億美元，較去年同期成長 34%。雲端訂閱 ARR 目前佔總 ARR 的 48%，高於一年前的 38%。

This result was about $9 million below the midpoint of our October guidance, primarily driven by the lower renewal rate of cloud subscriptions this quarter and the higher-than-expected contribution of on-prem to cloud modernization deals as a percent of total new cloud bookings this quarter.

這結果比我們 10 月指引的中點低約 900 萬美元，主要原因是本季雲端訂閱的續約率較低，以及本地部署對雲端現代化交易的貢獻佔本季新雲端預訂總額的百分比高於預期。

Approximately 68% of cloud subscription net new ARR in the trailing 12 months came from new cloud workloads and expansion, with approximately 40% of that growth coming from new customers to Informatica. Modernizations accounted for 32% of our trailing four quarter cloud subscription net new ARR, up from 24% last quarter.

在過去 12 個月中，雲端訂閱淨新增 ARR 的約 68% 來自新的雲端工作負載和擴展，其中約 40% 的成長來自 Informatica 的新客戶。現代化占我們過去四個季度雲端訂閱淨新 ARR 的 32%，高於上一季的 24%。

Our cloud net retention rate was 124% in the quarter, and our cloud gross renewal rate was in the low-90s. Foreign exchange negatively impacted cloud subscription ARR by $716,000 on a quarter over quarter basis and $1.9 million year over year.

本季我們的雲端淨留存率為 124%，雲端總續約率在 90% 以下。外匯對雲端訂閱 ARR 產生了負面影響，季減 71.6 萬美元，年減 190 萬美元。

Self-managed subscription ARR, which we no longer actively sell, declined in the quarter to $447 million. This was down 5% sequentially and down 13% year over year due to the effects of natural turn and the roll off of migrated on-prem workloads to the IDMC cloud platform.

我們不再主動銷售的自主管理訂閱 ARR 在本季下降至 4.47 億美元。由於自然週轉的影響以及將內部工作負載遷移至 IDMC 雲端平台，該數字比上一季下降 5%，比去年同期下降 13%。

The third component of total ARR is maintenance for on-premise perpetual licenses sold in the past, which now represents 26% of total ARR. Maintenance ARR was down approximately 9% year over year to $451 million, a somewhat greater decline than we expected. Most of the greater than forecast decline was due to more roll off of modernization-related ARR as projects were completed.

總 ARR 的第三部分是過去銷售的內部永久許可證的維護，目前佔總 ARR 的 26%。維護 ARR 年減約 9% 至 4.51 億美元，降幅略大於我們的預期。大部分超出預期的降幅是由於隨著專案的完成，與現代化相關的 ARR 的減少。

The natural churn rate of maintenance was slightly higher than forecast, about 50 basis points. Subscription ARR, which is simply the sum of cloud subscription ARR and self-managed ARR grew 13% year over year to $1.274 billion. As we indicated last quarter beginning in Q1, we will no longer provide summary subscription metrics, including ARR, customer account and renewal rate.

維護的自然流失率略高於預測，約50個基點。訂閱 ARR 是雲端訂閱 ARR 與自管理 ARR 的總和，較去年同期成長 13%，達到 12.74 億美元。正如我們上個季度所指出的，從第一季開始，我們將不再提供摘要訂閱指標，包括 ARR、客戶帳戶和續訂率。

Modernizing our on-prem customer base to Informatica's IDMC is an important part of the strategy. As of the end of Q4, 9.4% of our maintenance and self-managed ARR base has been modernized to the cloud or is in the process of modernizing, up from 6.8% last quarter. We have a life to date average 1.9 ARR uplift ratio on these modernizations down from 2.0 last quarter.

將我們的本地客戶群現代化為 Informatica 的 IDMC 是該策略的重要組成部分。截至第四季末，我們維護和自我管理的 ARR 基礎中有 9.4% 已實現雲端現代化或正在現代化過程中，高於上一季的 6.8%。迄今為止，這些現代化升級的平均 ARR 提升率為 1.9，低於上一季的 2.0。

Over the past four quarters, our average modernization uplift ratio was 1.7. This reflects a lower average uplift ratio for power center cloud edition modernizations, which were over 80% of modernization deals in Q4. We had been expecting this decline in the average uplift ratio, and we expected to decline a bit more in 2025 to approximately 1.5 to 1.7.

在過去四個季度中，我們的平均現代化提升率為 1.7。這反映了電力中心雲端版本現代化的平均提升率較低，第四季度的現代化交易中該比例超過 80%。我們早就預料到平均提升率會下降，並且預計 2025 年還會進一步下降至大約 1.5 到 1.7。

We are very comfortable with this lower uplift ratio as we have found that cloud modernizations typically drive significant net expansion sales upfront, have healthy expansion in term, and they have better renewal rates than non-expansion -- than non-modernization new deals.

我們對這個較低的提升率非常滿意，因為我們發現雲端現代化通常會在前期推動顯著的淨擴張銷售，在長期內實現健康的擴張，並且它們的續約率比非擴張 - 非現代化新交易更好。

Now I'd like to review our revenue results for the fourth quarter.

現在我想回顧一下我們第四季的營收結果。

GAAP total revenues for the fourth quarter of 2024 were $428 million a decrease of 3.8% year over year. Foreign exchange rates positively impacted total revenues by approximately $1.3 million on a year over year basis, but FX was about a $2 million headwind to revenue compared to our forecast FX rates at the beginning of the quarter.

2024 年第四季的 GAAP 總營收為 4.28 億美元，較去年同期下降 3.8%。與去年同期相比，外匯匯率對總收入產生了約 130 萬美元的正面影響，但與我們在本季初預測的外匯匯率相比，外匯對收入造成了約 200 萬美元的阻力。

Total revenues were approximately $30 million below the midpoint of our October guidance due to four primary factors, lower upfront revenue per ASC 606 accounting standards for self-managed subscription renewals due to the lower-than-expected renewal rate, lower average duration of self-managed subscriptions that did not renew -- that did renew, lower professional services revenue, and the strengthening of the US dollar in November.

總收入比我們十月份預期中位數低約 3000 萬美元，主要原因如下：根據 ASC 606 會計準則，由於續訂率低於預期，自我管理訂閱續訂的前期收入較低；未續訂的自我管理訂閱的平均持續時間較短；已續訂的自我管理訂閱；專業服務收入較低；以及十一月份美元走強。

Cloud subscription revenue was approximately $187 million or 44% of total revenues, growing 33% year over year. As a reminder, due to the timing difference between revenue recognition and ARR, the relative growth rates of these two metrics will differ from period to period.

雲端訂閱收入約 1.87 億美元，佔總營收的 44%，年增 33%。提醒一下，由於收入確認和 ARR 之間的時間差異，這兩個指標的相對成長率會因期間而異。

Self-managed subscription support and license revenue combined was $111 million or 26% of total revenue and declined 32% year over year. As mentioned before, the impact of upfront revenue recognition of the license component of our on-premise contract renewals and new bookings has a significant impact on our reported GAAP revenue.

自主管理訂閱支援和授權收入合計為 1.11 億美元，佔總收入的 26%，年減 32%。如前所述，我們內部合約續約和新預訂的許可部分的預付收入確認對我們報告的 GAAP 收入有重大影響。

In order to help provide more clarity to investors on the impact of this upfront recognized revenue, we've added a new table to our investor materials which breaks out the upfront ASC 606 revenue from our radiably recognized software revenue.

為了幫助投資者更清楚地了解這筆預付確認收入的影響，我們在投資者材料中添加了一個新表格，將預付 ASC 606 收入從我們可預測的軟體收入中分拆出來。

As you'll see from that table, upfront recognized self-managed revenues declined by $46 million versus Q4 2023, and for the full year upfront recognized revenue declined by $73 million. We will be providing this disclosure of upfront recognized versus radiably recognized revenue every quarter going forward in our investment materials and in our 10-Ks and 10-Qs.

從該表可以看出，與 2023 年第四季相比，預付確認的自營收入下降了 4,600 萬美元，全年預付確認的收入下降了 7,300 萬美元。我們將在今後每季的投資資料以及 10-K 與 10-Q 中揭露預付確認收入與預計確認收入的情況。

Maintenance revenue was $111 million and represented 26% of total revenue for the quarter. The maintenance renewal rate was 92%, down about 3% points year every year and 2% versus last quarter. This renewal rate decline was primarily due to greater than forecast modernization roll off.

維護收入為 1.11 億美元，佔本季總收入的 26%。維護續保率為92%，較去年同期下降約3個百分點，較上季下降2%。更新率下降主要是因為現代化升級幅度超乎預期。

Professional services revenues, which includes implementation, consulting and education, we're down about $1.3 million year over year to $20 million. As a reminder, our implementation services revenue has been declining as our services partners assume a greater share of that work for our customers, and we expect this trend to continue in 2025.

專業服務收入（包括實施、諮詢和教育）年減約 130 萬美元，至 2,000 萬美元。提醒一下，由於我們的服務合作夥伴為客戶承擔了更大份額的實施服務工作，我們的實施服務收入一直在下降，我們預計這一趨勢將在 2025 年持續下去。

Turning to the geographic distribution of our business, US revenue declined 6% year over year to approximately $264 million, represented 62% of total revenue. The decline in US revenue growth is primarily at attributable to the year over year decline in self-managed license and support services. International revenue declined 1% year over year to $164 million, representing 38% of total revenue.

談到我們業務的地理分佈，美國營收年減 6% 至約 2.64 億美元，佔總收入的 62%。美國收入成長的下降主要歸因於自我管理許可和支援服務的年減。國際營收年減 1% 至 1.64 億美元，佔總營收的 38%。

Now I'd like to move on to our profitability metrics. Please note I will discuss non-GAAP results unless otherwise stated. In Q4, our gross margin was 84%, 1.5 percentage point higher year over year. We remain focused on maintaining healthy gross margins as our business transitions to the cloud.

現在我想談談我們的獲利指標。請注意，除非另有說明，我將討論非 GAAP 結果。第四季，我們的毛利率為84%，較去年同期上升1.5個百分點。當我們的業務轉型為雲端時，我們仍專注於維持健康的毛利率。

Operating expenses were lower than our forecast for the quarter, but operating income was below the midpoint of our October guidance by approximately $10 million due to lower revenue. Operating margin was 37.9%, a 150 basis point improvement from a year ago. For the full year 2024, operating margin improved by 380 basis points over the prior year.

營業費用低於我們對本季的預測，但由於收入下降，營業收入比我們 10 月預期的中位數低約 1,000 萬美元。營業利益率為37.9%，比去年同期提高了150個基點。2024 年全年營業利潤率比前一年提高了 380 個基點。

The adjusted EBITDA was $166 million and net income was $129 million. Net income per diluted share was $0.41 based on approximately 314 million outstanding diluted shares. Basic share account was approximately 305 million shares.

調整後的 EBITDA 為 1.66 億美元，淨收入為 1.29 億美元。基於約 3.14 億股已發行稀釋股份，每股稀釋淨收益為 0.41 美元。基本股票帳戶約3.05億股。

Adjusted unlevered free cash flow after tax was $180 million, $24 million above the midpoint of our guidance, primarily due to lower cash taxes than forecast and unrealized FX gains on US dollar cash balances held in foreign subsidiaries. Cash paid for interest in the quarter was $32.5 million consistent with expectations.

調整後的稅後無槓桿自由現金流為 1.8 億美元，比我們預期的中點高出 2,400 萬美元，主要原因是現金稅低於預期，以及在國外子公司持有的美元現金餘額的未實現外匯收益。本季支付的利息現金為 3,250 萬美元，與預期一致。

I'd like to provide an update on our share repurchase activity. During the fourth quarter, we spent $103 million to repurchase 3.8 million shares of Class A Common stock at an average price of $26.66 through open market purchases. Additionally, from January 1 through February 12, we spent $27 million to repurchase another 1.1 million shares at an average price of $25.36. In total, we have reduced our total share count as of yesterday by about 1.6% as a result of these repurchases.

我想提供有關我們的股票回購活動的最新情況。第四季度，我們花費 1.03 億美元透過公開市場以平均 26.66 美元的價格回購了 380 萬股 A​​ 類普通股。此外，從 1 月 1 日到 2 月 12 日，我們花費 2,700 萬美元以平均 25.36 美元的價格回購了另外 110 萬股。總體而言，由於這些回購，截至昨天我們的總股數已減少了約 1.6%。

And earlier this week, our board approved an additional $400 million stock repurchase authorization, bringing the total authorization to $800 million. Taking these repurchases into account, we have $670 million remaining available under our $800 million share repurchase program. We intend to continue repurchasing our shares in the open market for the remainder of this quarter, targeting similar dollar volumes as last quarter.

本週早些時候，我們的董事會批准了額外 4 億美元的股票回購授權，使總授權金額達到 8 億美元。考慮到這些回購，我們 8 億美元的股票回購計畫下還剩餘 6.7 億美元可用。我們打算在本季剩餘時間內繼續在公開市場回購我們的股票，目標金額與上一季相同。

We ended the fourth quarter in a strong cash position with cash plus short-term investments of $1.2 billion an increase of $240 million year over year. Net debt was $591 million and trailing 12 months of adjusted EBITDA was $551 million. This resulted in a net leverage ratio of 1.1 times at the end of December.

我們第四季的現金狀況強勁，現金加短期投資達 12 億美元，較去年同期增加 2.4 億美元。淨債務為 5.91 億美元，過去 12 個月的調整後 EBITDA 為 5.51 億美元。這使得12月底的淨槓桿率為1.1倍。

Now I'll turn to 2025 guidance. Based upon the dynamics we saw unfold in our business at the end of Q4, we have lowered our forecast for 2025 relative to our prior expectations. We've set our forecast and guidance assuming lower renewal rates than we had previously expected for self-managed cloud and maintenance, higher on-prem to cloud modernization deals as a percent of our total cloud bookings, a slightly lower average modernization uplift ratio, shorter self-managed renewal term lengths, and the continued decline of professional services.

現在我將談談 2025 年指導。根據我們在第四季末看到的業務動態，我們已下調 2025 年的預測（相對於先前的預期）。我們設定的預測和指導假設是，自我管理雲端和維護的續約率低於我們先前預期，本地到雲端現代化交易占我們總雲端預訂的百分比更高，平均現代化提升率略低，自我管理續訂期限較短，以及專業服務持續下滑。

These changes to our forecast assumptions result in total ARR and in total GAAP revenue growth, several points lower than we had previously planned. And our operating income and free cash flow margin will not expand as expected due to lower revenue.

對我們預測假設的這些變化導致總 ARR 和總 GAAP 收入成長比我們先前計劃的低了幾個點。而且由於收入下降，我們的營業收入和自由現金流利潤率不會如預期般擴大。

We expect total ARR and total revenue growth to increase in 2026, but not to the levels provided in the medium-term guidance we first offered at the end of 2023. We're not providing new medium-term guidance at this time, but we expect to do so later this year.

我們預計 2026 年總 ARR 和總收入成長將會增加，但不會達到我們在 2023 年底首次提供的中期指引中的水準。我們目前不提供新的中期指導，但我們預計將在今年稍後提供。

Taking all this into account, we are establishing the following guidance for the full year ending December 31, 2025. Note that all growth rates refer to the midpoint of the guidance range. We expect GAAP total revenues to be in the range of $1.67 billion to $1.72 billion, representing approximately 3.4% year over year growth, or approximately 4.6% on a constant currency basis.

考慮到所有這些因素，我們為截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日的全年制定了以下指導。請注意，所有成長率均指指導範圍的中點。我們預計 GAAP 總營收將在 16.7 億美元至 17.2 億美元之間，年增約 3.4%，或以固定匯率計算成長約 4.6%。

We expect total ARR to be in the range of $1.755 billion to $1.795 billion, representing approximately 2.9% year on year growth, or approximately 3.2% on a constant currency basis. We expect cloud subscription ARR to be in the range of $1.019 billion to $1.051 billion, representing approximately 25.1% year over year growth, or approximately 25.3% on a constant currency basis.

我們預計 ARR 總將在 17.55 億美元至 17.95 億美元之間，年增約 2.9%，或以固定匯率計算成長約 3.2%。我們預計雲端訂閱 ARR 將在 10.19 億美元至 10.51 億美元之間，年增約 25.1%，或以固定匯率計算成長約 25.3%。

We expect non-GAAP operating income to be in the range of $546 million to $566 million representing approximately 3.5% year to year growth. And we expect adjusted unlever free cash flow after tax to be in the range of $540 million to $580 million representing approximately 3.3% year by year decrease.

我們預計非 GAAP 營業收入在 5.46 億美元至 5.66 億美元之間，年增約 3.5%。我們預計調整後的稅後無槓桿自由現金流將在 5.4 億美元至 5.8 億美元之間，年減約 3.3%。

Our guidance for the first quarter ending March 31, 2025, is as follows. We expect GAAP total revenues to be in the range of $380 million to $400 million representing approximately 0.4% year over year growth, or approximately 2.1% on a constant currency basis.

我們對截至 2025 年 3 月 31 日的第一季的指導如下。我們預計 GAAP 總營收將在 3.8 億美元至 4 億美元之間，年增約 0.4%，或以固定匯率計算成長約 2.1%。

We expect total ARR to be in the range of $1.673 billion to $1.697 billion, representing approximately 3% year over year growth, or approximately 3% on a constant currency basis. We expect cloud subscription ARR to be in the range of $840 million to $852 million, representing approximately 30% year over year growth, or approximately 29% -- 29.7% on a constant currency basis.

我們預計 ARR 總將在 16.73 億美元至 16.97 億美元之間，年增約 3%，或以固定匯率計算成長約 3%。我們預計雲端訂閱 ARR 將在 8.4 億美元至 8.52 億美元之間，年增約 30%，或以固定匯率計算成長約 29% 至 29.7%。

We expect non-GAAP operating income to be in the range of $98 million to $112 million, representing approximately 3.9% year over year decrease. The press release includes the table showing the expected negative FX impact for Q1 in full year 2025 on a constant currency basis.

我們預計非 GAAP 營業收入在 9,800 萬美元至 1.12 億美元之間，年減約 3.9%。新聞稿中包括一個表格，顯示了以固定匯率計算的 2025 年第一季預計的負面外匯影響。

For modeling purposes, I'd like to provide a few more pieces of additional information. First, we expect adjusted unlevered free cash flow after tax for the first quarter to be in the range of $140 million to $160 million.

為了建模目的，我想提供更多一些附加資訊。首先，我們預計第一季調整後的稅後無槓桿自由現金流將在 1.4 億至 1.6 億美元之間。

Second, we estimate cash paid for interest will be approximately $30 million in the first quarter and approximately $118 million for the full year using forward interest rates based on one-month SOFR and a credit spread of 225 basis points.

其次，我們估計，以基於一個月 SOFR 和 225 個基點的信用利差的遠期利率計算，第一季支付的利息現金約為 3,000 萬美元，全年支付的利息現金約為 1.18 億美元。

For tax rates, we reported a full year 2024 non-GAAP tax rate of 23%, and we expect that to be consistent in the full year of 2025. Looking at fiscal '26 and beyond, we expect a long-term steady state non-GAAP tax rate of 24%, which reflects the normalized taxes in the jurisdictions where we operate and under currently enacted tax laws.

對於稅率，我們報告的 2024 年全年非 GAAP 稅率為 23%，我們預計 2025 年將全年保持一致。展望26財年及以後，我們預期長期穩定的非公認會計準則稅率為24％，這反映了我們經營所在司法管轄區和現行稅法規定的正常稅率。

Cash taxes in full year 2025 are expected to be $70 million to $75 million which is about $5 million higher than our cash taxes in 2024.

預計 2025 年全年現金稅將達到 7,000 萬至 7,500 萬美元，比 2024 年的現金稅高出約 500 萬美元。

And lastly, our share account assumptions. For the first quarter, we expect basic weighted average shares outstanding to be approximately 304 million shares and diluted weighted average shares outstanding to be approximately 312 million shares.

最後，我們的股票帳戶假設。對於第一季，我們預計基本加權平均流通股數約為 3.04 億股，稀釋加權平均流通股數約為 3.12 億股。

For the full year, we expect basic weighted average shares outstanding to be approximately 309 million shares and diluted weighted average shares outstanding to be approximately 316 million shares. Please note that the share count forecasts do not include the impact of the share repurchases we intend to pursue between now and the end of the quarter.

我們預計全年基本加權平均流通股數約為 3.09 億股，稀釋加權平均流通股數約為 3.16 億股。請注意，股票數量預測不包括我們從現在到本季末打算進行的股票回購的影響。

And with that, I'll turn the call back to Vic for Q&A.

說完這些，我將把電話轉回給維克進行問答。

Vic, before we start Q&A, let me take a moment and step back. Look, throughout the year, as I said, we had steady momentum, although the fourth quarter did not go quite as planned. We've identified the areas that need improvement, and we are actively working on addressing them.

維克，在我們開始問答之前，請容許我先退後一步。正如我所說，全年我們都有穩定的發展勢頭，儘管第四季度的進展並不完全按照計劃進行。我們已經確定了需要改進的領域，並且正在積極努力解決它們。

The fundamental health of our cloud business and our cloud-only consumption driven strategy remains very strong, and we're excited to be on track to reach a remarkable milestone for $1 billion in cloud subscription in 2025.

我們的雲端業務的基本健康狀況和僅以雲端為主導的消費驅動策略仍然非常強勁，我們很高興能夠預計在 2025 年實現 10 億美元雲端訂閱的重大里程碑。

With that, Vic, let's proceed to Q&A.

維克，讓我們繼續問答環節。

Great. Thank you. Operator, let's open the lines to questions, please.

偉大的。謝謝。接線員，請讓我們開始回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Alex Zukin, Wolfe Research.

（操作員指示） Alex Zukin，Wolfe Research。

Hey, guys, Thanks for taking the question. Maybe just help us understand a little bit about retention rates on the cloud side. That was one of the areas I felt like I just wanted to get a better understanding of kind of what happened there on these renewal cycles and cohorts. How are you fixing that?

嘿夥計們，感謝你們回答這個問題。也許只是幫助我們了解一點雲端的保留率。這是我感覺我想更了解這些更新周期和群體中發生的事情的領域之一。你要如何修復它？

And what are you embedding for the full year in guidance because I think everybody wants to basically understand, given the issues that you face in the quarter, what's the level of confidence, and the level of conservatism that you've embedded? Obviously, on that point I just ask across the board.

您對全年的預期是怎樣的？顯然，在這一點上我只是提出了一個全面的問題。

Sure, Alex. Thanks for the question. Let me take what happened and Mike can talk about how we break that into the guidance part. Look, we had the cloud renewal rate, we had two kinds of issues. One was renewal rate. We had two kinds of issues. One was more operational execution operational issues, and the other one was more organizational incentive driven issues.

當然，亞歷克斯。謝謝你的提問。讓我講一下發生的事情，然後麥克可以講講我們如何將其分解為指導部分。你看，我們有雲端更新率，我們有兩種問題。一是續約率。我們遇到了兩種問題。一個是更多的營運執行問題，另一個是更多的組織激勵驅動問題。

And to give you an example of that, look, we've identified the operational issues, and I'll give you an example of that. Look, typically, our team -- this is a team that has outperformed and has delivered high renewal rates throughout has a very good sense of what the potential orange or flashing orange signs could be for a particular renewal, and they do a fantastic job of working on it ahead of the time and you know renewals have to be worked ahead of the time, right?

舉個例子，看，我們已經確定了操作問題，我會給你一個例子。看起來，通常情況下，我們的團隊 - 這是一支表現出色並且始終保持高續約率的團隊，他們非常清楚特定續約的潛在橙色或閃爍的橙色標誌可能意味著什麼，並且他們提前做了出色的工作，您知道續約必須提前進行，對嗎？

But a great example is that in some cases -- and look we, it's kind of like we don't have [100] exact precise answers, but we know relatively directionally quite well. A great example is that look, exact sponsor changes and in a lot of cases the exact sponsors changed up front.

但一個很好的例子是，在某些情況下——看，我們好像沒有 [100] 個精確的答案，但我們對方向性的了解相當清楚。一個很好的例子是，具體贊助商發生了變化，在許多情況下，具體贊助商是預先改變的。

Basically, the new person comes in and they have a new strategy. They may delay a particular project or shelter it for a period of time and may want to come at it later and things like that. And our teams didn't catch it and by the time they caught it was late and at that point I think that particular renewal comes to risk.

基本上，新人進來後他們就有了新的策略。他們可能會推遲某個項目，或者在一段時間內擱置它，然後想稍後再做類似的事情。但我們的團隊沒有發現它，當他們發現時已經很晚了，到那時我認為特定的更新就會有風險。

That's a great example of something that happened as an operational one. We know how to solve it. We know we'll be able to solve it. And the other color I'll give is that not every churn is a loss of the cost 100%. In a bunch of cases it's a partial churn also the customer said, look, I have other issues going on and I'm only going to do a little bit of it now.

這是在營運過程中發生的一些事情的一個很好的例子。我們知道如何解決它。我們知道我們能夠解決這個問題。我要給的另一種解釋是，並非每次客戶流失都會導致 100% 的成本損失。在很多情況下，這都是部分流失，客戶說，看，我還有其他問題，我現在只能做一點點。

So the renewal is not a full renewal, it's a partial renewal. So those are the kind of things, and our team does a fantastic job of predicting those up front and making sure we can make it happen, but in these cases we fell short.

因此，這次更新並不是全面更新，而是部分更新。這些都是類似的情況，我們的團隊在提前預測這些情況並確保能夠實現這些情況方面做得非常出色，但在這些情況下，我們未能做到。

Some examples of organization and incentive issues are in some cases, exactly the example I gave you where in this case the success team, the renewal team, and in some cases the account team had to be plugged in together like if a sponsor changes the account team would know, but they would not know that the renewal team does not know that and it's important for them and it fell through the class.

在某些情況下，組織和激勵問題的例子正如我給你舉的例子一樣，在這種情況下，成功團隊、續約團隊，以及在某些情況下客戶團隊必須結合在一起，例如如果贊助商發生變化，客戶團隊會知道，但他們不知道續約團隊也不知道這一點，而這對他們來說很重要，所以這在課堂上就失敗了。

We have fixed that through putting the right incentives in place for everybody to be working together a lot more. And those are the examples of these are all the things that we know. Again, this is a very, stable team that has done very well. We have work to do to solve them, but that's those are examples of that, Alex. I'll give it to Mike to say how we break that into the 2025 guidance.

我們透過提供適當的激勵措施來解決這個問題，以促使每個人更多地合作。這些都是我們所知道的事情的例子。再說一遍，這是一支非常穩定、表現非常出色的球隊。我們需要做一些工作來解決這些問題，但這些就是例子，亞歷克斯。我會讓麥克告訴我們如何將其分解到 2025 年的指導中。

So Alex, we cited on the prepared remarks how much the renewal rates were worse than what we expected, and we've basically pushed that through into the full year of 2025 without assuming any increase that are a result of the actions that Amit described.

因此，亞歷克斯，我們在準備好的評論中提到了續約率比我們預期的要差多少，並且我們基本上將這一趨勢推遲到了 2025 年全年，而沒有假設由於阿米特所描述的行動而導致的任何增長。

We're hopeful that that they will have a positive impact, but we're not putting in the guidance. We're going to work as hard as we can to improve those renewal rates, but in 2025, they are consistent with what we experienced in Q4 of 2024.

我們希望它們會產生正面的影響，但我們不會提供指導。我們將盡最大努力提高這些續約率，但到 2025 年，它們將與 2024 年第四季的水平保持一致。

Got it. And then maybe just as a follow up for both of you or for either of you, if you think about just the kind of the demand environment versus the execution framework versus kind of competitive elements in the market as projects evolve and and techno technology is changing, kind of maybe stack rank, is it all three?

知道了。然後也許只是作為你們兩人或你們任何一個人的後續問題，如果你考慮一下隨著項目的發展和技術的變化，需求環境與執行框架以及市場中的競爭要素，也許是堆疊排名，是這三者嗎？

Is it mostly one of the three. Again, kind of embedded typically after these types of events, there's probably, talent changes or management changes that that occur. Have you embedded any conservatism with respect to any of those elements and to the guide?

它主要是三者之一嗎？再次，通常在這些類型的事件之後，可能會發生人才變動或管理變動。您是否對這些要素和指南嵌入了任何保守主義？

Many questions that actually we can give you the answer across the Board. First of all, the reward demand for us was pretty good. Actually, as I said, this is all tied to renewals. We actually ended the year with the with the same demand cycle that we talked about throughout the course of the quarter where incoming pipeline creation or incoming deals that we closed remained steady as we as we expected it to be.

對於許多問題，我們實際上都可以為您提供全面的答案。首先，對我們來說，獎勵需求是相當不錯的。實際上，正如我所說，這一切都與續約有關。實際上，我們在年底的需求週期與我們在整個季度中討論的相同，即即將到來的管道創建或我們完成的交易保持穩定，正如我們預期的那樣。

So that did not see anything that we did not anticipate. If anything, I give you examples of how we saw the 100 customers using GenAI project that through telemetry. In fact, as we sit here, we're looking at the (inaudible) which is about -- we saw a healthy ForEx increase in pipe attributable to GenAI which the customer said, hey, we are looking at IBMC in the context of GenAI as you come to do POCs and demos show us that. We're seeing that as we look at the pipe for the first half of the year.

所以並沒有看到任何我們沒有預料到的事情。如果有的話，我會給你舉一些例子，說明我們如何透過遙測看到 100 位客戶使用 GenAI 專案。事實上，當我們坐在這裡時，我們正在看（聽不清楚）——我們看到由於 GenAI 而導致的管道 ForEx 的健康增長，客戶說，嘿，我們正在 GenAI 的背景下研究 IBMC，正如你來做 POC 和演示向我們展示的那樣。當我們觀察今年上半年的管道時，我們就看到了這一點。

So we didn't see any change to that in that area. And in terms of organizations, look, I will repeat that we have a very well oiled machine on that side of the world. We have a leader who's been there who's run our renewals for 28 years in this company, has a team that has performed significantly while delivering some of the best renewal rates in the industry.

因此我們沒有看到該地區有任何變化。至於組織方面，我再重複一遍，我們在世界的這一邊擁有一台運作良好的機器。我們的領導者已經在公司負責續約工作 28 年了，他的團隊表現優異，並且實現了業內最佳的續約率。

I think the team has identified the issues. We have made operational incentive related changes. I'm very confident that over the course of the year they'll work it through. Like Mike said, we have not taken any improvement assumptions. We have work to do, but that's the full end to end answer to your questions.

我認為團隊已經發現了這些問題。我們已經做出了與營運激勵相關的改變。我非常有信心，他們在今年內就能解決這個問題。正如麥克所說，我們沒有採取任何改進假設。我們還有很多工作要做，但這就是對您的問題的完整回答。

Koji Ikeda, Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Koji Ikeda。

Yeah. Hey, thanks so much for taking my questions. I wanted to maybe follow up on the renewals. And so I'm just having a hard time squaring why renewals are a little bit more difficult right now considering that Informatica is -- we view it as pretty mission critical out there. We've heard that from a lot of your customers and partners.

是的。嘿，非常感謝您回答我的問題。我可能想跟進續約情況。因此，我只是很難理解為什麼續約現在會變得更加困難，考慮到 Informatica — — 我們認為它是一項至關重要的任務。我們從很多客戶和合作夥伴那裡聽說過這一點。

So I just kind of don't get it. Is the competition getting better, is pricing an issue? I mean, you mentioned other things going on. I wanted to dig into that comment a little bit too. I mean, our budgets being shifted away from Informatica for something else. I'm just trying to understand what is going on with renewals.

所以我有點不懂。競爭是否變得更激烈？我的意思是，你提到了正在發生的其他事情。我也想深入探討一下該評論。我的意思是，我們的預算從 Informatica 轉移到了其他方面。我只是想了解續約的情況。

Look, I think -- let me further pass through what I was answering for Alex. And look, there is always going to be a portion of it that I may not have perfect answers for you today. We did not see -- as we went through all of it, like I said, if we saw a ton of operational execution issues of our own internal that we can fix.

看，我想——讓我進一步講一下我為亞歷克斯回答的問題。你看，對於其中的某些問題，我今天可能無法給你完美的答案。就像我說的，當我們經歷這一切時，我們沒有看到，如果我們發現我們內部有大量我們可以解決的營運執行問題。

By the way, like I said, the churn or increase or reduction in renewal did not mean that it was 100% loss of a customer. It could be partial loss of a particular project or a particular -- so the customer may still be with us, but if they had a $1 with us, it may be $0.50 or $0.75 or $0.25, whatever it is like, and mathematically it comes out to whatever average it. There's a lot of that.

順便說一句，就像我說的，客戶流失、續約增加或減少並不意味著 100％ 失去客戶。這可能是某個特定項目或某個特定項目的部分損失——因此，客戶可能仍然與我們合作，但如果他們在我們這裡損失了 1 美元，那麼它可能是 0.50 美元、0.75 美元或 0.25 美元，無論它是多少錢，從數學上講，它都會變成它的平均值。有很多這樣的事。

And we from what -- and I've talked to a bunch of those and we dug into a lot of those as you can imagine, Koji, from the first of Jan to now we've gone through absolutely looking at every opportunity and everything that is in our book of business over there. We didn't see any increase in any competitive dynamic over there.

而且我們從什麼開始 — — 我已經和很多人談過了，我們對其中很多內容進行了深入研究，正如你可以想像的，Koji，從 1 月 1 日到現在，我們已經徹底研究了那裡的每一個機會和我們業務簿中的所有內容。我們沒有看到那裡的競爭態勢有任何增強。

And I'm not going to sit here and say it's accounting wise 100% true, but we haven't seen anything that that is different than a quarter before or two quarters before or three quarters before in the book of business.

我不會坐在這裡說這在會計方面 100% 正確，但我們在業務賬簿上沒有看到任何與一個季度前、兩個季度前或三個季度前有什麼不同。

Like I said, we saw a bunch of little, little things adding up where we took our eye off the ball. And look, the other one is that this is a part of the engine that has come very well and sometimes we, to be honest, take it for granted and we tend to focus at the end of the year a lot on the net new business and trying to close out the year and while these things are happening, I think all of us did not take that, I would say, as we should have done and it happened to us and now we know what to do.

就像我說的，我們看到一堆小事不斷累積，而我們卻沒有集中註意力。另一個原因是，這是引擎的一部分，它運行得非常好，有時候，說實話，我們認為這是理所當然的，我們傾向於在年底把重點放在淨新業務上，並試圖結束這一年，而當這些事情發生時，我想我們所有人都沒有像我們應該做的那樣接受這一點，而它發生在我們身上，現在我們知道該怎麼做了。

I just add a couple of things, Koi, for just color. Remember, the renewal rates for subscription -- self-managed subscription cloud came down on a blended annualized basis by about 2%. So when you're talking about an overall business that's growing, 6% or 7%, that has a big impact.

我只是添加了一些東西，錦鯉，只是為了顏色。請記住，訂閱的續訂率——自我管理訂閱雲端的綜合年化率下降了約 2%。因此，當你談論整體業務成長時，6% 或 7% 會產生很大的影響。

But It doesn't in our view reflect fundamental change in the nature of the business, the stickingness of the product or the thesis overall. You can make your own judgment, but that's how we see it.

但我們認為，這並不反映業務性質、產品黏性或整體論點的根本變化。你可以自己做出判斷，但我們就是這麼認為的。

Secondly, as we mentioned in the call, the renewal rates in the cloud are still in the low-90s. We're not going to get more precise than that because there's too much noise quarter to quarter versus the signal. But it was 2% higher than we expected, but it's still in the low-90s and we think that's pretty good with room for improvement for a software company like ourselves.

其次，正如我們在電話會議中提到的那樣，雲端的續訂率仍然處於 90% 的低點。我們無法得到比這更精確的數據，因為相對於訊號而言，季度之間的噪音實在太多了。但它比我們預期的高出 2％，但仍在 90% 的出頭，我們認為對於像我們這樣的軟體公司來說，這已經相當不錯了，還有改進的空間。

Got it. Thank you, Mike. And maybe a follow up for you, Mike. Why is GAAP total revenue so difficult to guide to? And I know in the press release, you laid out four reasons and two of which I totally understand, the push for professional services and FX.

知道了。謝謝你，麥克。也許可以跟進一下你的情況，麥克。為什麼 GAAP 總收入如此難以指導？我知道，在新聞稿中，你列出了四個原因，其中兩個我完全理解，即推動專業服務和外匯。

And I guess it's more of the other two. We did talk about renewal rates just now, but also duration is another issue. And so, the question is, it is the predictability just really hard with the Informatica model? I mean, I'm just trying to really understand the GAAP total revenue guide aspect. Thank you.

我想這更多的是另外兩種情況。我們剛才確實談到了續約率，但期限是另一個問題。那麼，問題是，使用 Informatica 模型真的很難實現可預測性嗎？我的意思是，我只是想真正了解 GAAP 總收入指南方面。謝謝。

Yeah. Look, at the end of the day, it's really hard. And let me just explain why? It has to do with the ASC 606 upfront accounting standard, and it's primarily around renewables because we don't actively sell any new self-managed. Some of it sells itself as we've talked about to government customers and so forth. But that's a small piece of it. It's really about the book of renewables.

是的。瞧，到頭來，這真的很難。讓我解釋為什麼？它與 ASC 606 前期會計準則有關，並且主要涉及再生能源，因為我們不會主動銷售任何新的自我管理產品。正如我們談到的，有些產品會自行出售給政府客戶等。但這只是其中的一小部分。這其實是一本關於再生能源的書。

And so, If something doesn't renew, and we talked about our renewal rate for self-manage was about 2 percentage points lower than we had forecast, it's an outsized negative impact on revenue versus forecast because you're not just recognizing one year of not renewal or there's not a negative of one year, it's anywhere between 60% and 75% of the TCD of that contract, which was recognized upfront at renewal or not recognized on non-renewal. And those numbers get big really fast.

因此，如果某些合約沒有續簽，而我們談到的自我管理續約率比我們預測的低約 2 個百分點，那麼這將對收入產生巨大的負面影響，因為您不僅僅是確認一年不續約，或者沒有一年的負數，而是該合約的 TCD 的 60% 到 75% 之間，這在未簽時的，或未簽時預先確認的，或未續簽。而且這些數字很快就會變得很大。

Then the second piece is term length, and it's the same basic concept. The upfront revenue recognition is based on the total contract value of the renewed contract. And if it's a two-year deal for $100 a year, that's a $200 TCD. If it's a year and a half, that's $150 TCD and your upfront revenue goes down by that amount or more actually because of the way the percentages works. So it's just very sensitive to those two variables, the renewal rate and the term length.

第二部分是任期長度，基本概念是一樣的。預付收入確認依據續約的總合約價值。如果這是一份為期兩年、每年 100 美元的合同，那麼 TCD 就是 200 美元。如果是一年半，那就是 150 美元的 TCD，而由於百分比的計算方式，您的前期收入實際上會減少同樣甚至更多的金額。所以它對這兩個變數非常敏感，即續約率和期限長度。

Matt Hedberg, RBC.

馬特·赫德伯格（Matt Hedberg），RBC。

Thanks for my questions. I guess on the migration deals, were some of these modernization drills driven by power in a cloud edition? And I guess, how should we think about the pace of these modernization deals through the balance of the earth.

謝謝你的提問。我猜想在遷移協議中，其中一些現代化演習是由雲端版本的力量驅動的嗎？我想，我們應該如何透過地球的平衡來思考這些現代化進程。

So, yes. 80% of the modernizations that we booked in Q4 were Power Center cloud edition. The remainder were mostly master data management migrations, which is an increasing portion of the mix as customers are now ready to move that as well.

所以，是的。我們在第四季度預訂的現代化改造中有 80% 是 Power Center 雲端版本。其餘大部分是主資料管理遷移，由於客戶現在也準備好遷移主資料管理，因此這部分遷移的比例正在增加。

But in terms of the pace of those in future quarters, it's going to be lumpy and exhibit A is what happened in Q3 versus Q4. Of total bookings, more than a third in Q4 was modernization. It was about 20% in Q3. Going forward, we have forecast about 30:70 mix of modernizations versus net new customers and workloads.

但就未來幾季的成長速度而言，情況將會不穩定，證據 A 就是第三季與第四季的情況。在總預訂量中，第四季超過三分之一是現代化預訂。第三季這一比例約為20%。展望未來，我們預測現代化、淨新增客戶和工作量的比例約為 30:70。

Before we had the results we had in Q4, we were expecting something in the mid-20s. So we've adjusted our forecast to reflect what we now see as a stronger momentum, stronger growth, bigger pipeline of modernizations in full year '25. But the quarter-to-quarter variability will be noticeable. Over the full year though, we're expecting about a 30:70 mix.

在獲得第四季度的結果之前，我們預計該數字會在 20% 左右。因此，我們調整了預測，以反映我們現在看到的 25 年全年更強勁的勢頭、更強勁的成長勢頭和更大的現代化計劃。但季度間差異將會很明顯。不過，我們預計全年的比例約為 30:70。

And I think I'll just kind of take a step back again -- sorry Mike, just back on this one. While obviously we are sitting here not meeting the anticipated forecast we have, but modernization while it has a handicap that Mike talked about in the short term, but as you can appreciate, landing a customer on IDMC has its natural benefit.

我想我會再次退一步——對不起，麥克，我再回到這個問題。雖然很明顯我們現在沒有達到預期的預測，但現代化雖然存在 Mike 在短期內談到的障礙，但正如你所能理解的，在 IDMC 上獲得客戶有其天然的好處。

First of all, with the more deals also come a portion of non-mod NND because new bookings because customers want to do other stuff also and plus the IPO expansion part of the platform is a very well oiled machine as we as we've shared. So it's a good thing. It obviously has other related accounting issues in the short term for us which is what we see.

首先，隨著交易的增多，也帶來了一部分非模組化 NND，因為新預訂是因為客戶還想做其他事情，再加上平台的 IPO 擴展部分，就像我們所分享的那樣，是一個運作良好的機器。所以這是一件好事。我們看到，短期內它顯然還有其他相關的會計問題。

And then maybe just on the slightly lower uplift, I think you said 1.5 to 1.7. It sounds like that was expected. I guess, is there any reason to think that could continue to drift lower in the future or do you think that's like more of a stabilized range here at this point in kind of the migration path?

然後也許只是稍微較低的提升，我想你說的是 1.5 到 1.7。這聽起來像是意料之中的事。我想，有什麼理由認為未來這一數字可能會繼續走低，或者您認為在目前的遷移路徑中，這一數字更像是一個穩定的範圍？

Yeah. We think it's stabilized, but let me answer the question a little bit more broadly, just so everybody understands that movement and how we view it. Modernization is a big opportunity. It's a big part of the strategy for America. And we view the economic value of that modernization opportunity on a customer life cycle basis.

是的。我們認為它已經穩定了，但讓我更廣泛地回答這個問題，以便每個人都了解這項運動以及我們如何看待它。現代化是一個巨大的機會。這是美國戰略的重要組成部分。我們根據客戶生命週期來看待這個現代化機會的經濟價值。

And the customer life cycle value of a modernization deal has a number of moving parts. One is when or if the customer modernizes at all, so the sooner they modernize, the better it is versus later. The terms upon which we strike that initial modernization, the uplift multiple, the amount of credits we give away and so forth.

現代化交易的客戶生命週期價值包含多個活動部分。一是客戶何時或是否進行現代化，越早現代化，越晚進行越好。我們達成初步現代化的條件、提升倍數、我們提供的信用額度等等。

And what happens to that modernized customer after they're on the cloud. It turns out in that third category about what happens to the customer once they're on the cloud, a lot of good things happen. And I never referred to this, but I'll repeat it. The modernizations typically drag additional new booking sales in addition to the modernization of the apples-to-apples requirement at the time of initial signing.

那麼當這些現代化的客戶使用雲端之後會發生什麼事呢？事實證明，在第三類中，關於客戶使用雲端後會發生什麼，會發生很多好事。我從來沒有提到過這一點，但我要重複一遍。除了首次簽署時同類比較要求的現代化之外，現代化通常還會拖累額外的新預訂銷售。

So they need 100 IPUs to replicate their modernization. They typically will buy more than that because all of the features on the AMC offer them advanced data quality and governance and data access control, and they realize that there's more great stuff they can do with the platform, so they buy more IPUs than would just be required for the modernization. That's point one.

所以他們需要 100 個 IPU 來複製他們的現代化。他們通常會購買更多，因為 AMC 上的所有功能都為他們提供了高級資料品質和治理以及資料存取控制，並且他們意識到使用該平台可以做更多很棒的事情，因此他們購買的 IPU 數量超過了現代化所需的數量。這是第一點。

Second, once they're up and running, the utilization is very good, and the net expansion during term is very healthy. Again, overall, it's 124%, and we see that to be consistent with modernization deal as well. And then third and very importantly, we have found now that we have a significant -- a sort of what we think is a statistically significant cohort of modernization deals that have renewed. We find that they renew at a much higher rate than a non-modernization deal does because those workloads are implemented and they're sticky.

其次，一旦它們投入運行，利用率就會非常好，而且在任期內的淨擴張非常健康。再次，總體而言，這一比例為 124%，我們認為這也與現代化協議一致。第三，也是非常重要的一點，我們現在發現，我們有一批重要的——我們認為是具有統計意義的——現代化協議已經續簽。我們發現，它們的更新速度比非現代化協議要高得多，因為這些工作量已經實施，而且具有黏性。

And they found new things to do. So when you put all that together and you put it into the life cycle value of the equation, we're very comfortable with that somewhat lower initial uplift ratio because that's only a part of the picture.

他們找到了新的事情去做。因此，當您將所有這些放在一起並將其放入方程式的生命週期值中時，我們對稍低的初始提升率感到非常滿意，因為這只是整個情況的一部分。

Now, customers don't modernize primarily based on price. We've talked about that a lot, but primarily modernize when they're ready because there's a lot of planning, there's a lot of budget, there's a lot of organizations, a lot of it has to happen. The price does impact their willingness to modernize in a particular period.

現在，消費者不會主要根據價格來決定是否進行現代化升級。我們已經多次討論過這個問題，但主要是在它們準備好時進行現代化改造，因為需要進行大量的規劃、投入大量的預算、組織大量的工作，還有很多事情需要完成。價格確實會影響他們在特定時期實現現代化的意願。

And so, on the margin, that's somewhat lower uplift multiple that we are accepting is reflective of the fact that we're happy to get customers to modernize under those terms because of the customer life cycle value.

因此，從邊際上講，我們接受的提升倍數略低，這反映了這樣一個事實：我們很高興讓客戶在這些條款下實現現代化，因為客戶生命週期價值如此。

We think the range that we forecast for '25 will be pretty stable, but we're going to continue to look at it every quarter and every year and in the context of life cycle value, and we may choose to have it be different in future periods.

我們認為，我們對25年的預測範圍將相當穩定，但我們將繼續在每個季度、每年以及生命週期價值的背景下對其進行研究，並且我們可能會選擇在未來時期使其有所不同。

Brad Zelnick, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的布拉德‧澤爾尼克 (Brad Zelnick)。

Great. Thank you very much. Amit, I appreciate why you'd look internally at the root causes underlying these results and what's within your control and the execution issues you you've identified related to renewals, I think we kind of understand that, but what are you doing specifically to address this?

偉大的。非常感謝。阿米特，我很理解你為什麼要從內部尋找這些結果的根本原因，以及你能控制什麼，以及你發現的與續約相關的執行問題，我想我們大概明白這一點，但你具體做了什麼來解決這個問題呢？

How much disruption is factored into the guide because it's common as we all look at software and various other companies that go through similar things. That transitions like these could take several quarters to get right, especially if you're having to swap out people or make dramatic change.

指南中考慮到了多少中斷，因為這是一個很常見的情況，因為我們都看到軟體和其他公司經歷過類似的事情。這樣的轉變可能需要幾個季度才能完成，特別是當你必須更換人員或做出重大改變的時候。

So two things. One comment I'll make and then again, I'll let my comment on the guide as to how we've taken that into the guide. We actually are not making any disruptive organizational changes. The changes that -- we're not, and I will repeat that we have a very well-oiled renewals team.

所以有兩件事。我會發表一條評論，然後再次就我們如何將其納入指南發表我的評論。我們實際上並沒有進行任何顛覆性的組織變革。我們沒有發生任何變化，我再重複一遍，我們有一個運作良好的續約團隊。

That team has successfully delivered some of the best-in-class renewals for us throughout. And by the way, the leader of that team has been there with us from the very beginning, whether it was when we transitioned from maintenance to multi-product maintenance to subscription to cloud all the way throughout. So in a time like this, we've gone through, and the team has collectively gone through the whole detailed deep digging uncover the issues and we have a plan to fix it.

團隊始終致力於為我們成功提供一些一流的續約服務。順便說一句，該團隊的領導者從一開始就一直和我們在一起，無論是從維護過渡到多產品維護，還是訂閱到雲，一直到整個過程。因此，在這樣的時刻，我們和團隊一起進行了整個詳細的深入挖掘，發現了問題，並且制定了解決方案。

Now, as you can imagine, like I said, renewals are not necessarily a quarter. It takes time. So we're going to take that. We're going to make the time that we're going to take us to make that happen and not just make that happen to fix what happened but also take the opportunity to make the changes to basically take us to a whole level of better execution going forward.

現在，正如您所想像的，就像我說的，續約不一定是按季度進行的。這需要時間。所以我們就接受這個。我們將花時間來實現這一目標，不僅要解決已經發生的問題，還要藉此機會進行變革，從根本上讓我們在未來的執行上達到更好的水平。

So we're not looking to make wholesale changes over there. We're basically -- so let me repeat that and for the reason because we know what the team has delivered throughout day in day out for us. There are incentives or other process changes that we have made definitely like how do we make sure that cross coordination happens, people have the incentives, so on and so forth, and that's already been baked in how we're tracking the business and how we are doing a lot of operational and financial tracking the business that trigger.

因此我們不打算在那裡進行徹底的改變。我們基本上——讓我重複一遍，原因是我們知道團隊日復一日為我們做出了什麼貢獻。我們確實採取了一些激勵措施或其他流程上的改變，例如如何確保交叉協調的發生、人們有激勵措施等等，這些都已經融入到我們如何跟踪業務以及我們如何對觸發的業務進行大量運營和財務跟踪之中。

That has obviously increased manifold and that's what we're doing. So that's with all that stuff happening, I think -- I'll handle, but Mike just said that we haven't, we have rolled forward what we saw in Q4 for the year for the guide. So we do not want to over expect anything to happen sooner. We want to make sure that we are properly giving the time for all those changes to have happened over the course of 2025, but I have tremendous confidence that we will be able to get there as we finish the year.

這顯然已經增加了許多倍，而這正是我們正在做的事情。所以，我認為，在發生了所有這些事情的情況下，我會處理的，但是麥克剛才說，我們還沒有，我們已經將我們在第四季度看到的情況向前推進了一年的指南。因此，我們不想過度期待任何事情會更快發生。我們希望確保在 2025 年期間有足夠的時間實現所有這些變化，但我非常有信心，我們一定能夠在年底實現這一目標。

And the only thing I can add to that is that the, as I mentioned, the changes that we're implementing in the additional processes and procedures and systems, adds that we're making are not disruptive in the way that you're talking about. They're additive. And so, I don't see there being a risk of any of the changes that we're implementing, making things worse. It's an opportunity to make it better.

我唯一能補充的是，正如我所提到的，我們在附加流程、程序和系統中實施的變更並不會像您所說的那樣造成破壞。它們是添加劑。因此，我認為我們實施的任何變革都不會使情況變得更糟。這是一個讓事情變得更好的機會。

That that's good to hear Mike. If I could ask just to follow up, you called out less tenured self-managed as being higher churn than the legacy base. Why shouldn't we expect that the same thing will happen in in cloud or the new customers in cloud that you're adding going to be less sticky as well?

很高興聽到麥克這麼說。如果我可以繼續問的話，您指出，任期較少的自我管理員工的流失率比傳統員工更高。為什麼我們不應該期望同樣的事情會發生在雲端中，或者您在雲端中添加的新客戶的黏性也會降低呢？

It's completely different, Brad, because the self-managed has been end of sale for two years. We're not innovating to it, and customers realized that they have to get off it at some point. And so, everybody who is on prem with us realizes that there's no future in it, and they don't have to move today, and we're not doing anything dramatic or punitive to force them off, but they have to get off.

這完全不同，布拉德，因為自主經營已經停止銷售兩年了。我們並沒有對此進行創新，客戶也意識到他們必須在某個時候放棄它。因此，每個和我們一起在現場工作的人都意識到這裡沒有未來，他們不必今天就搬走，我們也沒有採取任何戲劇性或懲罰性的措施來強迫他們離開，但他們必須離開。

And so, very different from the cloud where we are innovating, we have the best products, we have the only platform. We've got a growing market behind us and then sticky use cases.

因此，與我們創新的雲端運算非常不同，我們擁有最好的產品，我們擁有唯一的平台。我們擁有一個不斷成長的市場，以及棘手的用例。

And to add to that, all of the AI capabilities are available only in the cloud where customers have the ability on that same platform to do non-AI and AI workload at the same time. So all the examples I give on AI, they're all on the cloud. That's not available for anybody on the non-cloud products.

此外，所有 AI 功能僅在雲端可用，客戶可以在同一平台上同時執行非 AI 和 AI 工作負載。所以我給的所有有關人工智慧的例子都在雲端。非雲端產品上的任何人都無法享受此功能。

William Power, Baird.

威廉鮑爾，貝爾德。

This is [Jason] from Will Power. Thanks for taking the question. Just wanted to follow up on a couple of questions ago about the lower uplift ratio that you're expecting going forward. And definitely appreciate the comments on how the post modernization activity can actually be even more important than the initial uplift.

我是 Will Power 的 [Jason]。感謝您回答這個問題。我只是想跟進之前幾個關於您預計未來提升率會降低的問題。而且非常感謝關於後現代化活動實際上比最初的提升更重要的評論。

But I just wanted to be clear on the reason why you're seeing the lower uplift ratio. I know in the prepared remarks you alluded to the higher concentration of the power center cloud edition deals, that was informing the expectation just a higher concentration, what's informing your expectation for the lower uplift in 2025, or are there other elements at play there? Any caller would be great.

但我只是想清楚地了解為什麼提升率較低。我知道在準備好的評論中您提到了權力中心雲版交易的更高集中度，這只是預示著對更高集中度的預期，那麼您對 2025 年較低提升的預期是什麼呢，還是有其他因素在起作用？任何來電者都很好。

Yeah. Sure. Thanks. It is primarily about the concentration of that in the mix, but some of it is price discovery as we have more experience with it to finding the sweet spot of where we are providing enough financial incentive for folks to move, but not so much that we're just giving away value and not really causing customers to modernize any faster.

是的。當然。謝謝。這主要與組合中的濃度有關，但其中一部分是價格發現，因為我們對此有更多的經驗，可以找到為人們遷移提供足夠財務激勵的最佳點，但又不會太多，以至於我們只是放棄了價值，而沒有真正導致客戶更快地實現現代化。

So it's a combination of the mix, but we actively watched the pricing and the pricing behavior of the field in terms of what works and what doesn't to achieve the outcome we want in terms of the pace and volume of modernization, and that's why it's gone to where it's gone.

所以這是一種混合的組合，但我們積極關注該領域的定價和定價行為，看什麼可行，什麼不可行，以便在現代化的速度和數量方面實現我們想要的結果，這就是它走到今天這一步的原因。

Howard Ma, Guggenheim Securities.

古根漢證券的 Howard Ma。

Great. Thank you. I guess for either Amit or Mike, the 40% of IDMC net new ARR that's coming from new customers, could you just clarify, are those net new to Informatica? And if so, can you give us some more color around these customers? Where are they coming from? What's the mix of these customers in terms of size or industry vertical and which IDMC product families are they landing on?

偉大的。謝謝。我想無論是對 Amit 還是 Mike 來說，IDMC 淨新 ARR 的 40% 都來自新客戶，您能否澄清一下，這些對於 Informatica 來說算是淨新收入嗎？如果是的話，您能否向我們詳細介紹一下這些客戶？他們從哪裡來？就規模或產業垂直而言，這些客戶的結構是怎樣的？

Well, yeah, they are absolutely debt new. And by the way, you'll see in our investor materials, the annual disclosure of our cloud customer count and it was up 8% year-over-year. We're not going to give that every quarter, but once a year, you'll get a glimpse of that and that 40% basically is what accounts for 8% customer count growth.

嗯，是的，他們確實欠了新債。順便說一句，您會在我們的投資者資料中看到，我們年度披露的雲端客戶數量比去年同期增加了 8%。我們不會每個季度都提供這個數據，但每年一次，您會看到這個數據，而這 40% 基本上就是 8% 的客戶數量增長的原因。

And in terms of the -- I'll let it pile on, but it's highly varied. It's a really broad, diverse and, I think, a healthy mix of folks that are coming to us, but --

就 — — 我會讓它堆積起來，但它是高度多樣化的。我認為，來我們這裡的人員範圍非常廣泛、多樣，而且是健康的混合體，但是--

I think the example of that, I think, yes, it's first of all, very diverse. It's not necessarily tied to a particular industry vertical. Of course, you can expect the core verticals like we have the world -- the specific economy that is the most news with the whole GenAI build out, they basically are leveraging our platform to basically manage their visibility into supply chain.

我認為這個例子是的，首先，它非常多樣化。它不一定與特定的垂直行業有關。當然，你可以期待像我們這個世界一樣的核心垂直產業——隨著整個 GenAI 的建設，特定的經濟體是最多的新聞，他們基本上都在利用我們的平台來管理他們對供應鏈的可見性。

In fact, 8 of the top 10 semiconductor companies around the world are our customers right now and a couple of them are net new customers. So similar to that -- so across the board, it's not just financial services or health care, which ended up being the largest businesses tech insurance companies, things of that.

事實上，全球前十大半導體公司中有八家現在是我們的客戶，其中幾家是淨新客戶。與此類似——從整體上看，不僅僅是金融服務或醫療保健，最終成為最大的企業是科技保險公司等等。

And of course, there are international companies as well into that mix as well. So those are the kind of companies. And when you talk about the use cases, like I said, it's more use cases than we think of products because, as I always say, multiple products get used on the IDMC platform, the semiconductor company is looking to manage their supply chain and includes both master data management and data quality as well as the industrial, those capabilities.

當然，也有國際公司加入其中。這些都是這樣的公司。當您談論用例時，就像我說的，它的用例比我們想到的產品要多，因為正如我常說的那樣，IDMC 平台上使用了多種產品，半導體公司正在尋求管理他們的供應鏈，包括主資料管理和資料品質以及工業這些功能。

And then some of the other use cases around analytics that includes integration, cataloging, quality, both app integration and data integration, those kinds of capabilities. So those are what the pieces.

然後是圍繞分析的一些其他用例，包括整合、分類、品質、應用程式整合和資料整合等功能。這就是這些碎片。

And they tend to be large customers.

而且他們往往都是大客戶。

Yeah. Those tend to be large customers. So in our case, it's always large customers, not as SMB or low endorsement markets

是的。這些往往都是大客戶。因此，在我們的案例中，客戶始終是大客戶，而不是中小企業或低認可的市場

I wouldn't say always. But the predominance is the large enterprise. And as you can see also from our investor material, average cloud ARR per customer grew 24% year-over-year and is now close to $350,000 per customer. So the smaller mid-market customers that needs to do simple data transfer from a few apps to one data warehouse. That's not our market.

我不會說總是這樣。但占主導地位的還是大型企業。從我們的投資者資料中您還可以看到，每位客戶的平均雲端 ARR 年比增長 24%，目前接近每位客戶 350,000 美元。因此，較小的中型市場客戶需要將資料從幾個應用程式簡單地傳輸到一個資料倉儲。那不是我們的市場。

Got it. And as a follow-up, -- the lower uplift ratio, the 1.5 to 1.7 times. Mike, you mentioned in your explanation earlier that there are additional IPUs that are dragged along. If you were to -- and I'm assuming that's at the time uplift, but it's not included in that 1.5 to 1.7 times. If you were to include those. So is that true? And then if you were to include those, would it make the initial migration hole, if you will relative to the 2 times prior?

知道了。作為後續行動，提升率較低，為 1.5 至 1.7 倍。麥克，你剛才在解釋中提到，還有額外的 IPU 被拖著走。如果你要 — — 我假設那是當時的提升，但它不包括在 1.5 到 1.7 倍之內。如果要包括這些的話。那麼這是真的嗎？然後，如果您將這些包括在內，相對於前 2 次，它是否會造成初始遷移漏洞？

Yeah. I think I see what you're getting at. So first of all, the other drag along, it sounds like a bad word, but I mean in a way is at the time of signing the initial modernization. It's not later. It's when they first sign up to modernize the workload, they realize there's other great stuff we can do with IDMC.

是的。我想我明白你的意思了。首先，另一個拖延，聽起來像是一個壞詞，但我的意思是在某種程度上是在簽署初始現代化協議時。不算太晚了。當他們第一次簽約以實現工作量現代化時，他們意識到我們可以用 IDMC 做其他很棒的事情。

So let's buy some more IPUs to use that additional stuff that's over and above what we need to apples-to-apples run the migrated on-prem work cloud. So hopefully, that's clear. The 1.5, 1.7 times or the historical ratios do not include that additional at time of signing uplift. It's only the apples-to-apples on-prem to cloud modernization uplift ratio.

因此，讓我們購買更多的 IPU 來使用那些超出我們運行遷移的內部工作雲所需的額外的東西。希望這一點很清楚。1.5 倍、1.7 倍或歷史比率不包括簽約時的額外提升。這只是本地部署與雲端現代化提升率的同類比較。

That's super helpful, Mike. And sorry for the additional follow-up, but I think the natural follow-up to this is, so you're guiding to $1 billion in cloud ARR now, right? I think initially, it was probably closer to like [$1.4 billion] if you were to -- because you lose out on a little bit of the cloud ARR, like the forgone amount at time of migration.

這太有幫助了，麥克。很抱歉還有額外的後續問題，但我認為這自然是後續問題，所以您現在預計雲端 ARR 為 10 億美元，對嗎？我認為最初這個數字可能更接近 14 億美元，因為你會損失一點雲端 ARR，例如遷移時損失的金額。

And as the migration mix becomes fear, that amount gets bigger, like if you were to -- have you tried sizing -- how much -- I think you know where I'm getting at, like if you'd add on that to be $1 billion, like does that help close some of that gap versus that [$1.4 billion], does the amount get later out upon contract renewal.

隨著移民組合變成恐懼，這個數額會變得更大，比如如果你 — — 你是否嘗試過估算 — — 有多少 — — 我想你知道我的意思，比如如果你把它增加到 10 億美元，這是否有助於縮小與那 [14 億美元] 相比的一些差距，這筆錢是否會在合同續簽時出來。

Yeah. Look, the [$1.4 billion] is -- I don't know where you got that number. I don't want to endorse that. But you're right, directionally, and we tried to get at it in the prepared remarks that the bigger contribution that modernizations have to the total gross amount of software, cloud software that we sell in a period, the less that translates to ARR because of the accounting rule that we have to debit the maintenance and subscription credits that we get for the old on-prem stuff against the new cloud deal for the entire term of that new cloud deal, which happens to be average 2.5 years.

是的。你看，[14 億美元] 是——我不知道你從哪裡得到這個數字。我不想認可這一點。但是從方向上看，您是對的，我們試圖在準備好的評論中指出，現代化對我們在一定時期內銷售的軟體總量、雲軟體的貢獻越大，轉化為 ARR 的金額就越少，因為根據會計規則，我們必須將我們從舊的內部部署產品中獲得的維護和訂閱信用額度記入新雲交易的整個期限內，而新雲交易的整個期限內，而新雲交易的整個期限內，而新雲交易的整個期限內，而新雲交易的整個期限內，而新雲交易的整個期限內，而新雲25 年。

So yeah, in the short term, the more migrations we sell as a percent of the total, the lower the near-term ARR contribution is going to be. The greater the potential to unlock that hidden ARR when it renews because the customer is paying the full amount customer sees the full amount.

所以，從短期來看，我們銷售的遷移佔總量的百分比越高，短期 ARR 貢獻就會越低。由於客戶支付全額，因此在續訂時解鎖隱藏 ARR 的可能性越大，客戶也能看到全額。

They don't understand or care about the accounting back end that requires us to show less ARR than they're actually paying. So when it comes up for renewal, if we renew it, even without a price lift, that's an uplift to what the actual contract value is. So the more due to the more of a drag it is in the short term, but more of an unlock benefit it is in future periods as those things are new.

他們不理解或不關心要求我們顯示比他們實際支付的更少的 ARR 的會計後端。因此，當續約時，如果我們續約，即使沒有提高價格，也會增加實際合約價值。因此，由於這些都是新事物，因此在短期內，這會帶來更多的阻力，但在未來時期，這將帶來更多的解鎖效益。

Patrick Colville, Scotiabank.

加拿大豐業銀行的派崔克‧科爾維爾。

Hi. This is [Joe Vandrick] on for Patrick Colville. I think you mentioned 100 enterprise customers using Informatica for GenAI. What will it take for more widespread adoption here? And then given 2025 is the year of AI agents. What does Gen AI mean for Informatica?

你好。我是 [Joe Vandrick]，代替 Patrick Colville 發言。我記得您曾提到 100 位企業客戶使用 Informatica 進行 GenAI。這裡要怎麼做才能得到更廣泛的採用呢？假設 2025 年是人工智慧代理之年。Gen AI 對 Informatica 來說意味著什麼？

So two different questions. Number one is that I always remind everybody that because customer counts can be one of those things that everybody can get adopted around the -- for all practical -- promises, we end up serving enterprise customers. So there are not any small customers that are trying to do any very small use cases.

所以是兩個不同的問題。首先，我總是提醒大家，因為客戶數量是每個人都可以接受的事情之一——就所有實際承諾而言，我們最終為企業客戶提供服務。因此，沒有任何小客戶嘗試做任何非常小的用例。

These are enterprise customers to solve mission-critical problems, and they are in the POC phase right now to figure it out. Like, for example, I give you examples of a healthcare company trying to basically doing the work over there to figure out a better patient engagement, that's the large health care company or a biotech company building their own AI work, leveraging us and Google Cloud to get insight from the internal system. So 100 can be can look small, but when you think of large customers, these are meaningful customers that obviously translates into a bigger upside over the course of long term when they go into production.

這些都是企業客戶要解決的關鍵任務問題，目前他們正處於 POC 階段來解決問題。例如，我給你舉的例子是，一家醫療保健公司試圖在那裡開展工作，以找出更好的患者參與度，這家大型醫療保健公司或生物技術公司正在建立自己的人工智慧工作，利用我們和谷歌雲端從內部系統獲取洞察力。因此，100 看起來可能很小，但當你想到大客戶時，這些都是有意義的客戶，當它們投入生產時，顯然會在長期帶來更大的好處。

To your question on Gen AI, look, given that, and I think it's a great -- let me remind you, we launched CLAIRE in 2018 when we were in the ML world, so one of the banes of that has been that as we were able to hold CLAIRE over the last many years, when Gen AI came by, we could particularly get to the world of Copilots, and we could put the CLAIRE GPT out for review and then it got launched, and obviously, we talked about the customers using CLAIRE GPT as well.

對於你關於 Gen AI 的問題，有鑑於此，我認為這很棒——讓我提醒你一下，我們在 2018 年進入 ML 世界時推出了 CLAIRE，因此其中一個弊端是，由於我們能夠在過去幾年中保留 CLAIRE，當 Gen AI 出現時，我們特別能夠進入 Copilots 的世界，我們可以將 CLAIRE GPT Gen AI 出現時，我們也拿出了來審查 Copilots 的世界，我們可以將 CLAIRE 談到

And stay tuned, obviously, more coming on the CLAIRE world in terms of many, many more exciting announcements. I think you will basically get to see them an Informatica World, which I hopefully you'll see all of you there.

敬請關注，CLAIRE 世界顯然還會有更多令人興奮的公告。我認為你們基本上將會在 Informatica World 中看到他們，我希望你們能在那裡見到你們所有人。

Thanks. And if I could sneak one in for Mike. How much of Informatica's business is US federal government? And how should we think about that segment in 2025? Thank you.

謝謝。如果我可以偷偷帶一份給麥克的話。Informatica 的業務有多少是美國聯邦政府？那麼，我們該如何看待 2025 年的這一領域呢？謝謝。

Yeah. It's less than 5%. And we have no indication that it's any different today than it was yesterday, but we're watching it.

是的。不到5%。我們沒有跡象表明今天的情況與昨天有何不同，但我們正在關注。

Miller Jump, Truist.

米勒跳躍，Truist。

Hey, thank you all for taking the question. I'll give you the one. Just you mentioned partial renewals and talked about $1 going to maybe $50 or even $0.75. Just curious, like, is that something that remains in the pipeline with the chance to recover it? You mentioned no change in competition. So just curious where that is going.

嘿，謝謝大家回答這個問題。我就給你一個。您剛才提到了部分續約，並談到 1 美元可能會漲到 50 美元甚至 0.75 美元。只是好奇，是不是還有什麼東西留在管道中，並且有機會恢復它？您提到競爭沒有變化。所以只是好奇這是怎麼回事。

Yeah. Look, I mean, the answer is yes. I mean our peers don't ever give up. I think that's absolutely right. And I think not losing a customer is a very important thing because it's not like we've had many over a period of time, the team will basically work their way back in, present new use cases may emerge for them to basically use the platform differently.

是的。看，我的意思是，答案是肯定的。我的意思是我們的同行永遠不會放棄。我認為這絕對正確。我認為不失去客戶是一件非常重要的事情，因為我們在一段時間內並沒有失去很多客戶，團隊基本上會回到團隊中，可能會出現新的用例，他們基本上會以不同的方式使用平台。

The answer to that is yes, which is why I was important reminding that a lower renewal rate did not mean that in all cases, we lost the customer. In a lot of cases, we just partially reduced the footprint over there. So yes, of course, but at the same time that, as I said, team doesn't lose sight of what the other use cases at a customer.

答案是肯定的，這就是為什麼我要提醒大家，較低的續約率並不代表在所有情況下我們都會失去客戶。在很多情況下，我們只是部分減少了那裡的足跡。是的，當然，但同時，正如我所說，團隊不會忽視客戶的其他用例。

And the ability to do that to recover so that in future periods is made completely frictionless by the pricing model we have, the Informatica processing unit. When they reduce or they downsell themselves at renewal, they're not giving up specific products or rights to do certain things, they're just buying less IPs.

並且透過我們擁有的定價模型（Informatica 處理單元），我們可以實現完全無摩擦的恢復能力，以便在未來時期內實現完全無摩擦的恢復。當他們在續約時減少或降低自己的價格時，他們並沒有放棄特定的產品或做某些事情的權利，他們只是購買了更少的 IP。

And later on, when you let them find new use cases and they need more, they just buy more capacity. They don't have to negotiate for a new contract or a new service.

稍後，當您讓他們找到新的用例並且他們需要更多時，他們只需購買更多容量。他們不必就新合約或新服務進行談判。

Austin Dietz, UBS.

瑞銀的奧斯汀·迪茨 (Austin Dietz)。

Hey Mike, it felt like we were talking about a return to double-digit growth previously. It sounds like you might update the framework a little later this year, but just given the 3% constant currency ARR guide for the year, like any initial thoughts on how we should be thinking about the overall book wage in Informatica going forward?

嘿，麥克，感覺我們之前正在談論恢復兩位數增長。聽起來您可能會在今年稍後更新該框架，但考慮到今年 3% 的恆定貨幣 ARR 指南，對於我們應該如何看待 Informatica 未來整體帳面薪資，您有什麼初步想法嗎？

Yeah. We're not providing additional guidance on that at this time, what we did say in the prepared remarks is that we do expect both of those metrics ARR and revenue to have higher growth in '26 than '25 off a low base than we had thought prior to the end of Q4, of course. But beyond that, we're not providing any additional guidance stated, we do expect to do so later in the first half.

是的。目前我們還沒有就此提供額外指導，但我們在準備好的評論中確實說過，我們確實預計這兩個指標（ARR 和收入）在 26 年的增長都將高於 25 年，當然，這比我們在第四季度末之前預想的要高。但除此之外，我們沒有提供任何額外的指導，我們確實預計將在上半年晚些時候這樣做。

Okay. Thanks so much. And then just on the 2025 cloud AR growth guidance, for growth to go from I think roughly 34% this year to 25%, next year here in 2025, it's a decent detail on the growth rate to where, and I know we're sort of talking about more migration deals coming to cloud this year as well. So I think we've hit on some of the factors, but maybe you could just talk through the moving pieces to the 2025 cloud ARR growth guide.

好的。非常感謝。然後僅就 2025 年雲端 AR 成長指引而言，我認為成長率將從今年的大約 34% 上升到明年的 25%，也就是 2025 年，這是關於成長率的一個相當詳細的信息，而且我知道我們也在談論今年更多遷移到雲端的交易。所以我認為我們已經觸及了一些因素，但也許您可以只談談 2025 年雲端 ARR 成長指南的一些變化因素。

Yeah. Sure. So we always expected that the growth in 2026 -- sorry, 2025 for cloud is going to be lower than 2024, right? We had expected 35.5% growth in 2024, we landed at 34.1%. Even if we have been at 35.5%, the guidance for '25 would have been lower than 2024. So start there.

是的。當然。因此，我們一直預計 2026 年（抱歉，2025 年）的雲端運算成長率將低於 2024 年，對嗎？我們預計 2024 年的成長率為 35.5%，但實際成長率為 34.1%。即使我們的成長率達到 35.5%，2025 年的預期也會低於 2024 年。所以從那裡開始。

Versus what we hypothetically would have guided had we not learned the things we learned in Q4. There are two things that are different that lowered the guidance versus what we would have guided otherwise, and that's renewal rate. We talked about that.

如果我們沒有學到第四季所學到的東西，我們假設的指導結果將會與此相反。與我們原本的指導方針相比，有兩件事不同，那就是更新率。我們討論過這個。

And that's higher contribution of migrations to the total gross amount of software bookings that we are forecasting for 2025. Those two are the primary two drivers and they account sort of 50-50 for the reduction in the guide the guided cloud subscription ARR growth in 2025 versus what we would have done had Q4 ended exactly as we expected.

我們預測到 2025 年，遷移對軟體預訂總量的貢獻將更大。這兩個是主要的兩個驅動因素，對於 2025 年雲端訂閱 ARR 成長預期的下降，與如果第四季完全按照我們的預期結束時的情況相比，它們分別佔了一半以上。

That concludes the Q&A session. I will now turn the call back over to the management team for final remarks.

問答環節到此結束。現在我將把電話轉回給管理團隊，請他們作最後的評論。

Thank you. Well, look, I appreciate everybody dialing in. Look, as I said, we didn't end Q4 as we anticipated and of course, the fiscal year. Having said that, like you heard from me, we know what are the issues that we need to work on and the team is all over it to work on it. You heard from Mike, as we've talked about 2025.

謝謝。嗯，看，我感謝大家的撥打電話。正如我所說，我們的第四季度和整個財政年度都沒有按預期結束。話雖如此，就像你從我這裡聽到的一樣，我們知道需要解決的問題是什麼，整個團隊都在全力以赴地解決這些問題。您聽到了麥克的說法，我們已經討論過 2025 年了。

I think I step back and I look at it that in spite of all of that stuff, we actually are walking into 2025 as a landmark and our cloud business actually hits a $1 billion ARR mark and with a [122%-plus NRR], growing well our average ASP, the growth of $1 million-plus customers. And of course, with the profitability profile that we continue to have -- we remain committed to continuing to execute against our commitments. And thank you all for taking the time today.

我認為，退一步來看，儘管存在所有這些因素，但我們實際上正邁入 2025 年，這是一個里程碑，我們的雲端業務實際上達到了 10 億美元的 ARR 大關，並且 [NRR 為 122% 以上]，我們的平均 ASP 增長良好，即增長了 100 萬美元以上的客戶。當然，憑藉我們持續擁有的獲利狀況——我們仍然致力於繼續履行我們的承諾。感謝大家今天抽出時間。

That concludes today's call. Thank you all for your participation, and you may now disconnect your lines.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的參與，現在您可以斷開線路了。