indie Semiconductor Inc (INDI) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. And welcome to indie Semiconductor's fourth quarter and year-end 2023 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

午安.歡迎參加獨立半導體公司第四季和 2023 年底的收益電話會議。（操作員說明）

As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I will now turn the call over to Ashish Gupta, Investor Relations. Mr. Gupta, please go ahead.

謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音中。我現在將把電話轉給投資者關係部門的 Ashish Gupta。古普塔先生，請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and welcome to indie Semiconductor's fourth quarter and year-end 2023 earnings call. Joining me today are Don Mcclymont, indie's Co-Founder and CEO; and Tom Schiller, indie's CFO and EVP of Strategy. Don will provide opening remarks and discuss business highlights, followed by Tom's review of Q4 and indie's outlook.

謝謝你，接線生。下午好，歡迎參加獨立半導體公司第四季和 2023 年底的財報電話會議。今天和我一起的還有 Indie 的共同創辦人兼執行長 Don Mclymont；以及獨立公司財務長兼策略執行副總裁湯姆席勒 (Tom Schiller)。Don 將發表開場白並討論業務亮點，隨後 Tom 將回顧第四季度和獨立公司的前景。

Please note that we'll be making forward-looking statements based on current expectations and assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. These statements reflect our views only as of today and should not be relied upon as representative of our views as of any subsequent date. These statements are subject to a variety of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations.

請注意，我們將根據目前的預期和假設做出前瞻性聲明，這些聲明可能存在風險和不確定性。這些聲明僅反映我們今天的觀點，不應被視為代表我們在任何後續日期的觀點。這些陳述受到各種風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與預期有重大差異。

For material risks and other important factors that could affect our financial results, please review our risk factors in our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2022, as well as other public reports with the SEC.

對於可能影響我們財務表現的重大風險和其他重要因素，請查看我們截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日的財年 10-K 表格年度報告以及向 SEC 提交的其他公開報告中的風險因素。

Finally, the results and guidance discussed today are based on non-GAAP financial measures, such as non-GAAP gross margin, non-GAAP operating income loss, non-GAAP net income loss, and non-GAAP EBITDA. These metrics may exclude corresponding GAAP measures certain of the following items: depreciation and amortization, share-based compensation, acquisition-related expenses, inventory cost realignments, gain or loss from change in fair values, non-cash interest expense, and income tax benefits or expenses. For a complete reconciliation to GAAP and the definition for the above items, please see our Q4 earnings press release, which was issued in advance of this call and can be found on our website at www.indiesemi.com.

最後，今天討論的結果和指導是基於非 GAAP 財務指標，例如非 GAAP 毛利率、非 GAAP 營業收入損失、非 GAAP 淨收入損失和非 GAAP EBITDA。這些指標可能不包括以下某些項目的相應 GAAP 指標：折舊和攤提、股權激勵、收購相關費用、庫存成本調整、公允價值變動損益、非現金利息費用和所得稅優惠或費用。有關 GAAP 的完整調整以及上述項目的定義，請參閱我們在本次電話會議之前發布的第四季度收益新聞稿，並且可以在我們的網站 www.indiesemi.com 上找到。

I'll now turn the call over to Donald.

我現在將電話轉給唐納德。

Thank you, Ashish, and welcome, everybody. The indie team delivered another quarter of solid revenue and gross margin performance, capping off a third consecutive year in which we've more than doubled our top line, once again, massively outpacing our peer group and earning the unique distinction of being the fastest growing semiconductor company in the world based on our last two years of revenue performance per Morgan Stanley.

謝謝你，阿什什，歡迎大家。獨立團隊又實現了一個季度穩健的收入和毛利率表現，連續第三年我們的收入增長了一倍以上，再次大大超過了我們的同行團隊，並贏得了增長最快的獨特榮譽。根據摩根士丹利最近兩年的收入表現，該公司是世界上的半導體公司。

Despite the challenging macro backdrop, in Q4, we achieved record revenue, delivering sales growth of 112% year over year and 16% sequentially to just over $70 million with 50 basis points of gross margin expansion on a year-over-year basis to 52.7%. We also substantially narrowed our operating loss to less than $1 million on an EBITDA basis.

儘管宏觀背景充滿挑戰，第四季度我們仍實現了創紀錄的收入，銷售額同比增長 112%，環比增長 16%，略高於 7,000 萬美元，毛利率同比增長 50 個基點，達到 52.7 %。我們也將 EBITDA 基礎上的營運虧損大幅縮小至 100 萬美元以下。

While we navigate automotive industry weakness in the short term, stemming from rising interest rates, slowing in market car sales, facilitating consumer transition to semiconductor content-rich electric vehicles, and inventory rebalancing across the automotive industry, our design win momentum has continued unabated and reinforces our confidence in indie's business model. I'm proud of our indie team's absolute relentlessness and the substantial progress we've made to date towards our financial goals in the face of these headwinds.

雖然我們在短期內克服了由於利率上升、市場汽車銷售放緩、促進消費者轉向半導體含量豐富的電動汽車以及整個汽車行業的庫存重新平衡而導致的汽車行業疲軟，但我們的設計獲勝勢頭仍然有增無減，增強了我們對獨立商業模式的信心。我為我們的獨立團隊的絕對不懈努力以及我們迄今為止在面對這些逆風時在實現財務目標方面取得的實質進展感到自豪。

Entering 2024, we expect these dynamics to persist dampening Q1, but with a recovery in Q2 and return to strong growth by Q3 and Q4 of this year. As context, automotive markets are forecasted to slow after experiencing a strong 2023. According to an updated S&P Global assessment from last month, in 2022, light vehicle production totaled 83 million units, up 7% year over year, while 2023 was up 9% to 90 million vehicles. But S&P Global is now indicating the first signs of the market shrinking in this production year.

進入 2024 年，我們預計這些動態將持續抑制第一季度，但第二季度將有所復甦，並在今年第三季和第四季恢復強勁成長。從背景來看，汽車市場在經歷了 2023 年的強勁表現後預計將放緩。根據標準普爾全球上個月更新的評估，2022年輕型汽車產量總計8,300萬輛，較去年同期成長7%，而2023年將成長9%，達到9,000萬輛。但標準普爾全球公司現在已顯示出本生產年度市場萎縮的初步跡象。

In particular, we are seeing real-time weakness across the China e-vehicle market as their luxury vehicles' SAR, or the seasonally adjusted annual rate, came in at $20.6 million for January, down versus $21.7 million reported in December, marking the fifth consecutive month of declines.

特別是，我們看到整個中國電動車市場的即時疲軟，因為1 月份豪華汽車的SAR（季節性調整後的年利率）為2,060 萬美元，低於12 月份報告的2,170 萬美元，這是第五個季度連續一個月下降。

While the fundamental landscape for EVs over the medium and longer term remains robust, shorter term, e-vehicle industry trends have certainly deteriorated given reduced buyer incentives, concern over charging infrastructure, and the saturation of early adopters. The shift in our near-term outlook reflects the softness compounded by the cancellation of a high-profile North American OEM ADAS program, which you may recall was pushed out from last year through no fault of indie.

雖然電動車中長期的基本面仍然強勁，但短期內，由於買家激勵措施減少、對充電基礎設施的擔憂以及早期採用者的飽和，電動車行業趨勢肯定會惡化。我們近期前景的轉變反映了一項備受矚目的北美 OEM ADAS 計劃被取消而加劇的疲軟狀況，您可能還記得，該計劃從去年就被取消，而這並不是獨立廠商的過錯。

Despite the setback, it won't result in a permanent loss of revenue as we fully expect to participate in their next equivalent project. Moreover, we won substantial subsequent business with this OEM, leveraging the same indie vision product line which will more than offset this loss in the medium term. So while we are seeing this air pocket in broader industry demand, the strategic opportunity for indie remains unchanged and is enormous, particularly as indie is at the unique intersection of vehicle safety systems, sensor fusion, and with our newest product developments' artificial intelligence towards realizing our vision of the uncrashable car.

儘管遇到了挫折，但它不會導致永久性的收入損失，因為我們完全期望參與他們的下一個同等項目。此外，我們利用相同的獨立視覺產品線，贏得了該 OEM 的大量後續業務，這將在中期抵消這一損失。因此，雖然我們在更廣泛的行業需求中看到了這一空缺，但獨立開發者的策略機會仍然沒有改變，而且是巨大的，特別是因為獨立開發者處於車輛安全系統、感測器融合以及我們最新產品開發的人工智慧的獨特交叉點。實現我們對堅不可摧的汽車的願景。

Accordingly, we will continue to prudently invest, remain aggressive on taping out new products as soon as possible, maintain our disciplined cost control approach that balance that against addressing ever-increasing Tier 1 and OEM demand for our innovative Autotech solutions, including each of these exciting new technologies. And while incremental investments hamper profitability in the immediate term, they will enable us to maintain our steep growth trajectory over the long run, furthering indie's technology leadership and adding to our strategic backlog.

因此，我們將繼續謹慎投資，繼續積極盡快推出新產品，維持嚴格的成本控制方法，以平衡滿足一級和 OEM 對我們創新汽車技術解決方案不斷增長的需求，包括其中的每一個令人興奮的新技術。雖然增量投資會在短期內阻礙獲利能力，但從長遠來看，它們將使我們能夠保持急劇的成長軌跡，進一步鞏固獨立技術的領先地位，並增加我們的策略性積壓。

To that end, during the quarter, we expanded our automotive camera video processor portfolio with the launch of a highly integrated system on chip that enables precision performance sensing capability at the vehicle's edge while supporting driver viewing. As the government regulators, new car safety assessors, and consumers demand higher performance safety features, automakers are increasingly seeking camera-based ADAS solutions that support volume scalability across their vehicle classes. This requires a distributed processing approach division sensing with high levels of integration and low power consumption to meet the needs of mass market deployments.

為此，在本季度，我們推出了高度整合的系統單晶片，擴展了我們的汽車攝影機視訊處理器產品組合，該系統能夠在車輛邊緣實現精確的性能感測能力，同時支援駕駛員觀看。隨著政府監管機構、新車安全評估人員和消費者要求更高性能的安全功能，汽車製造商越來越多地尋求基於攝影機的 ADAS 解決方案，以支援其車型的批量擴展。這需要一種具有高整合度和低功耗的分散式處理方法劃分感測，以滿足大眾市場部署的需求。

Again, according to S&P Global, shipments of automotive electronic control units incorporating vision-based processing are expected to grow from 232 million units in 2022 to nearly 400 million units by 2027. And based on our current engagements, we intend to capture a disproportionate share of this market.

同樣，根據 S&P Global 的數據，採用視覺處理的汽車電子控制單元的出貨量預計將從 2022 年的 2.32 億台增長到 2027 年的近 4 億台。根據我們目前的業務，我們打算佔領這個市場的不成比例的份額。

We also continue to gain design win traction by securing major in-cabin monitoring programs with leading automotive OEMs, including BMW, Ford, General Motors, and Toyota. As global safety initiatives continue to evolve, the demand for this monitoring system is intensifying, positioning in-cabin sensing solutions as critical elements to enable future automation features.

我們還透過與領先的汽車原始設備製造商（包括寶馬、福特、通用汽車和豐田）合作確保主要的車內監控項目，繼續贏得設計的青睞。隨著全球安全措施的不斷發展，對此監控系統的需求不斷增加，將車內感測解決方案定位為實現未來自動化功能的關鍵要素。

More recently, we entered into a strategic partnership with Ficosa, a leading Tier 1 supplier to bring AI-based automotive camera solutions, initially supporting two of the top five car OEMs in the world and aimed at significantly enhancing vehicle safety. Government regulators and new car safety assessment programs are increasingly seeking to specify protection for vulnerable road users, such as pedestrians and cyclists, often referred to as VRU, especially through backup and emitter applications.

最近，我們與領先的一級供應商Ficosa 建立了戰略合作夥伴關係，提供基於人工智慧的汽車攝影機解決方案，最初為世界前五名汽車原始設備製造商中的兩家提供支持，旨在顯著提高車輛安全性。政府監管機構和新車安全評估計劃越來越多地尋求為行人和騎自行車者等弱勢道路使用者提供具體保護，通常稱為 VRU，特別是透過備用和發射器應用。

Euro NCAP implemented the VRU safety test protocol in 2020, and in the United States, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, or NHTSA, has this year proposed enhancements to the NCAP protocol to provide consumers with information of our crash worthiness and pedestrian protection of new vehicles. As a result, automakers are demanding camera-based ADAS solutions that provide not just passive viewing capability, but also intelligent sensing to actively detect pedestrians via AI processing and take corresponding action.

歐洲NCAP 於2020 年實施了VRU 安全測試協議，而在美國，國家公路運輸安全管理局(NHTSA) 今年提出了對NCAP 協議的增強，以便為消費者提供有關我們的新汽車的碰撞價值和行人保護的資訊。汽車。因此，汽車製造商需要基於攝影機的 ADAS 解決方案，不僅提供被動觀看功能，還提供智慧感測功能，透過人工智慧處理主動偵測行人並採取相應行動。

indie's upcoming generation of vision solutions incorporate proprietary on-chip neural processing hardware and software to enable real-time data processing such as object classification and detection of the vehicle's edge, thereby offloading the central ADAS compute processing requirements and alleviating the cost and power consumption of high-speed data transfer across the vehicle. Leveraging Ficosa's near decade-long expertise of the high-volume vision solution supplier and our field-proven differentiated vision processing technology, together, we can deliver breakthrough imaging and in-camera object detection, particularly for challenging edge sensing applications.

indie 即將推出的新一代視覺解決方案採用專有的片上神經處理硬體和軟體，可實現即時資料處理，例如物件分類和車輛邊緣偵測，從而減輕中央 ADAS 運算處理要求，並降低成本和功耗。整個車輛的高速資料傳輸。借助Ficosa 大容量視覺解決方案供應商近十年來的專業知識和我們經過現場驗證的差異化視覺處理技術，我們可以提供突破性的成像和相機內物體檢測，特別是對於具有挑戰性的邊緣感測應用。

Sampling for the first smart AI-based camera solutions is set to commence later this year, with volume production slated for 2025. At the same time, and just as importantly, I'm pleased to report that we have successfully sampled our radar baseband and mimic to our lead customer, one of the largest contributors to our strategic backlog, and are on track for a 2025 program ramp.

首款基於人工智慧的智慧相機解決方案將於今年稍後開始提供樣品，預計於 2025 年實現量產。同時，同樣重要的是，我很高興地報告，我們已經成功地對我們的雷達基帶進行了採樣，並對我們的主要客戶（我們戰略積壓的最大貢獻者之一）進行了模仿，並且有望在2025 年實現計畫提升。

Shifting to user experience. During the quarter, we launched new products adding to our interior lighting and power management portfolios at leading global automakers to support OEM's increasing prioritization of a captivating in-cabin environment. Vehicles have become more than just a means of transportation, morphing into a sophisticated environment equipped with an array of electronic devices and systems. As a result, the need for reliable, efficient, and seamless power delivery has risen to the forefront.

轉向用戶體驗。本季度，我們在全球領先的汽車製造商中推出了新產品，增加了我們的車內照明和電源管理產品組合，以支持 OEM 日益重視迷人的車內環境。車輛已不再只是一種交通工具，而是一個配備了一系列電子設備和系統的複雜環境。因此，對可靠、高效和無縫電力傳輸的需求已成為當務之急。

Similarly, OEMs are increasingly focusing on interior and exterior lighting solutions as it transcends just functionality within the modern vehicle, becoming a pivotal element of the user experience that shapes the cabin's ambiance and enhances visibility and safety.

同樣，原始設備製造商越來越關注內部和外部照明解決方案，因為它超越了現代車輛的功能，成為塑造車內氛圍並增強可見性和安全性的使用者體驗的關鍵元素。

Finally, in the electric vehicle area, we have extended our footprint into a leading North American e-vehicle OEM, securing two significant design wins in support of their future model years. The two custom chip sets enable high-speed smart networking within the vehicle.

最後，在電動車領域，我們已將業務擴展到北美領先的電動車 OEM，贏得了兩項重大設計勝利，以支持其未來的車型。這兩個客製化晶片組可實現車內高速智慧網路。

In summary, despite the tactical market challenges, we're winning new programs and setting the stage for the next wave of above-market growth towards sustained profitability.

總之，儘管面臨戰術性市場挑戰，我們仍在贏得新項目，並為下一波高於市場的成長實現持續獲利奠定基礎。

I'll now turn the call over to Tom for a discussion of our Q4 results and outlook.

我現在將把電話轉給湯姆，討論我們第四季的業績和前景。

Thanks, Donald. Revenue for the fourth quarter was up 112% year over year and up 16% sequentially to a record $70.1 million, at the lower end of our guidance band and indicative of the weak market environment, though still up more than tenfold within just three years.

謝謝，唐納德。第四季的營收年增 112%，季增 16%，達到創紀錄的 7,010 萬美元，處於我們指導範圍的下限，顯示市場環境疲軟，但在短短三年內仍增長了十倍多。

Q4 gross profit was $37 million, translating into a 52.7% gross margin, up 50 basis points year over year and consistent with our guidance. Operating expenses were $39.4 million, with R&D sequentially lower to $29.4 million, reflecting a pause in tape-out activity, while SG&A was down slightly quarter over quarter to $10 million.

第四季毛利為 3,700 萬美元，毛利率為 52.7%，年增 50 個基點，與我們的指導一致。營運費用為 3,940 萬美元，研發費用則是環比下降至 2,940 萬美元，反映出流片活動暫停，而 SG&A 環比略有下降，至 1,000 萬美元。

In turn, our Q4 operating loss narrowed to $2.4 million versus a loss of $15.1 million in the year-ago period, driven by higher revenue, improving gross margin, and operating expense leverage. Adding back $1.4 million of depreciation, our EBITDA loss was less than $1 million. With net interest expense of $200,000, our net loss was $2.6 million, and we posted a $0.01 loss per share on a base of 181.6 million shares, again, in line with our guidance and consensus estimates.

反過來，在營收增加、毛利率提高和營運費用槓桿的推動下，我們第四季的營運虧損收窄至 240 萬美元，而去年同期的虧損為 1,510 萬美元。加上 140 萬美元的折舊，我們的 EBITDA 損失不到 100 萬美元。淨利息支出為 20 萬美元，我們的淨虧損為 260 萬美元，在 1.816 億股的基礎上，我們公佈每股虧損 0.01 美元，這再次符合我們的指導和共識估計。

We exited the quarter with $151.7 million of cash and equivalents, down $9 million versus Q3, primarily related to increased AR and CapEx to expand our internal test capacity, partially offset by a decline in inventory.

本季結束時，我們擁有 1.517 億美元的現金和等價物，比第三季度減少了 900 萬美元，主要與為擴大我們的內部測試能力而增加的 AR 和資本支出有關，部分被庫存下降所抵消。

Turning to our outlook, for the first quarter of 2024, we expect indie's revenue to be up 38% year over year, but down 20% sequentially, reflecting seasonality and current industry softness, with gross margin in the 52% range.

談到我們的展望，對於 2024 年第一季度，我們預計獨立遊戲的收入將同比增長 38%，但環比下降 20%，反映出季節性和當前行業疲軟，毛利率在 52% 範圍內。

In terms of operating expenses, we are planning for $34 million in R&D, driven by accelerated product development activities and $10 million of SG&A. Below the line, we anticipate $400,000 of net interest expense and no taxes. Assuming 186 million shares outstanding, including the full 7.7 million shares related to the retirement of 27 million warrants that we closed in November, we expect an $0.08 net loss per share.

在營運支出方面，在加速產品開發活動的推動下，我們計劃投入 3,400 萬美元的研發費用，以及 1,000 萬美元的銷售管理費用。在此線之下，我們預計淨利息支出為 400,000 美元，且不含稅。假設已發行股票為 1.86 億股，包括與我們於 11 月關閉的 2700 萬份認股權證退役相關的全部 770 萬股，我們預計每股淨虧損為 0.08 美元。

From a full-year 2024 perspective, we expect revenue to be in the $275 million to $300 million range, up 29% at the midpoint. Based on our new program and design win pipeline, we expect Q1 to represent a trough quarter, with top-line recovery in Q2 and a resumption of outsized revenue growth in Q3 and 4, yielding a profitability baseline on an EBITDA basis in the second half of this year ahead of our significant 2025 radar and vision ramps.

從 2024 年全年的角度來看，我們預計營收將在 2.75 億美元至 3 億美元之間，中位數成長 29%。根據我們的新計劃和設計勝利管道，我們預計第一季將是一個低谷季度，第二季度營收將復甦，第三季度和第四季度收入將恢復大幅增長，下半年將產生以EBITDA 為基礎的獲利基線今年的 2025 年雷達和視覺重大升級之前。

On that note, I'll turn the call back to Donald for his closing comments.

關於這一點，我將把電話轉回給唐納德，聽取他的結束語。

Thanks, Tom. In conclusion, we posted record Q4 and 2023 results, demonstrating the strength of our business model through a challenging operating environment. Whilst we can't control the weather, our strategic focus remains unwavering. We're building an absolute Autotech powerhouse with innovative ADAS, user experience, and electric vehicle solutions, positioning us to effectively navigate current market conditions, capitalize on the $48 billion serviceable opportunity, which is just ahead of us, and most importantly, to create great shareholder value.

謝謝，湯姆。總之，我們發布了創紀錄的第四季和 2023 年業績，在充滿挑戰的營運環境中展示了我們業務模式的優勢。雖然我們無法控制天氣，但我們的戰略重點卻堅定不移。我們正在打造一個擁有創新ADAS、用戶體驗和電動車解決方案的絕對汽車技術巨頭，使我們能夠有效駕馭當前的市場狀況，充分利用擺在我們面前的480 億美元的可用機會，最重要的是，創造巨大的股東價值。

That concludes our prepared remarks. Operator, let's open the call for questions.

我們準備好的演講到此結束。接線員，讓我們開始提問。

Suji Desilva, Roth MKM.

蘇吉·德西爾瓦，羅斯·MKM。

Hi, Donald. Hi, Tom. So maybe you could provide some color on the demand weakness you're seeing, if that's broadly across all geographies, or if there's any geography color there? And any specific color on the sort of on the programs or applications that maybe are being impacted EV, non-EV, that kind of thought. Thank you.

嗨，唐納德。你好湯姆。那麼，也許您可以就您所看到的需求疲軟提供一些顏色，如果這種情況廣泛分佈在所有地區，或者是否有任何地理顏色？以及可能受到電動車、非電動車等影響的程序或應用程式上的任何特定顏色。謝謝。

Well, we're seeing that the overwhelming reason for the majority of it is just the inventory digestion, which is broadly across the market. We do see some specifics in the China e-vehicle market, which are kind of the vanguard of what we saw coming across the market. But generally speaking, it's really a broad inventory correction that we're seeing.

嗯，我們看到，其中大部分的壓倒性原因只是庫存消化，這在整個市場上都是普遍存在的。我們確實看到了中國電動車市場的一些細節，這些細節是我們所看到的整個市場的先驅。但總的來說，我們看到的確實是一次廣泛的庫存調整。

Okay. And then to understand, a follow-up on that, you talked about a program pushed out, I believe, or canceled coming for the next program. Can you just clarify that and talk about whether you're seeing a broader trend of decisions and programs for maybe the model years, '25, '26, '27 being delayed or pushed out, or whether those decisions are continuing to be made ahead of those model ramps?

好的。然後為了理解，後續，你談到了一個項目被推遲，我相信，或者取消了下一個項目。您能否澄清一下這一點，並談談您是否看到了模型年“25”、“26”、“27”的決策和計劃的更廣泛趨勢被推遲或推遲，或者這些決策是否繼續提前做出那些模型坡道？

No. So to answer the last part of your question first, absolutely not. This is one program out of 50 that we're working on. And it just happened to be a program where there was an ambitious goal set for it and engineering execution on the customer side didn't pan out for their business goals. So it was a major program for them.

不。所以先回答你問題的最後一部分，絕對不是。這是我們正在進行的 50 個項目中的一個。這恰好是一個為其設定了雄心勃勃的目標的計劃，而客戶方面的工程執行並沒有實現他們的業務目標。所以這對他們來說是一個重要的項目。

In this case, I would say it's something that very rarely happens in the automotive industry at all. And even with us, with a relatively smaller customer base, it's still an extremely rare thing. So it's for sure, not a trend.

在這種情況下，我想說這在汽車行業中是很少發生的事情。即使對我們來說，客戶群相對較小，這仍然是一件極為罕見的事情。所以這是肯定的，而不是趨勢。

Okay. Thanks, Donald.

好的。謝謝，唐納德。

Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

克雷格·艾利斯，B.萊利證券。

Hi, this is Ethan Widell, calling you for Craig Ellis. Thanks for taking my questions. You provided a nice on the slope of demand as you see it. I'm just wondering if you could provide any color on how you're seeing the gross margin trajectory going forward?

大家好，我是伊森‧威德爾，我是克雷格‧艾利斯。感謝您回答我的問題。如您所見，您在需求斜率方面提供了良好的表現。我只是想知道您是否可以提供任何關於您如何看待未來毛利率軌蹟的資訊？

Yeah. So we expect gross margin expansion from here. In fact, this is just an air pocket in terms of market demand. But as you've seen in the past, we've done a very good job sequentially expanding margin, and that just comes from improving mix and lowering costs, improving yields, et cetera. And that's going to continue. So we expect off that Q1 trough to begin to expand gross margin again towards 60%.

是的。因此，我們預計毛利率將從這裡開始擴大。事實上，這只是市場需求的一個空穴來風。但正如您過去所看到的，我們在連續擴大利潤率方面做得非常好，這只是來自於改善組合、​​降低成本、提高產量等。這種情況還會持續下去。因此，我們預計毛利率將在第一季低谷後再次擴大至 60%。

Got you. And similarly, are you thinking about any OpEx levers, or would that similarly be something that we could expect to see grow out of second quarter?

明白你了。同樣，您是否正在考慮任何營運支出槓桿，或者我們預計第二季會出現類似的成長？

OpEx, at this stage, we've reached critical mass. So we're making some tactical investments here and there to accelerate product development. That's happening in the current quarter. But from there, it's a relatively flattish profile, and that creates the operating leverage to hit profitability in the back half of this year, and then of course, beyond that, towards our 30% target model.

營運支出，在這個階段，我們已經達到了臨界點。因此，我們正在各處進行一些戰術投資，以加速產品開發。這就是當前季度發生的情況。但從那時起，它的形象相對平坦，這創造了營運槓桿，可以在今年下半年實現盈利，當然，除此之外，還可以實現我們 30% 的目標模型。

Got it. That's much appreciated. Thank you.

知道了。非常感謝。謝謝。

Anthony Stoss, Craig Hallum Capital Group.

安東尼·斯托斯，克雷格·哈勒姆資本集團。

Hey, guys. Maybe if you can give us some color on expected new programs coming online Q2, Q3, Q4, that gives you the confidence for a steep ramp in Q3 and Q4? And then also, as my follow-up, probably for you, Donald, again, I think the large radar win, your prior statements were Q4 or Q1 of 2025, now you're saying 2025, do you still expect it to be in Q1 2025, or is that getting pushed as well?

大家好。也許您能給我們一些關於第二季、第三季、第四季上線的預期新項目的信息，這會讓您對第三季和第四季的大幅成長充滿信心嗎？然後，作為我的後續行動，可能對你來說，唐納德，再次，我認為大型雷達獲勝，你之前的陳述是 2025 年第四季度或第一季度，現在你說 2025 年，你仍然期望它在2025 年第一季度，還是也會被推動？

No, that still remains on track. I mean, as fast as the semantics of the notes that we made in the prepared remarks, so nothing has changed in that respect. In fact, we did announce that we had sampled these programs.

不，這仍然在正軌上。我的意思是，與我們在準備好的評論中所做的註釋的語義一樣快，所以在這方面沒有任何改變。事實上，我們確實宣布我們已經對這些程序進行了採樣。

And as you know, from all your experience in this market, the back of the program is largely broken once you get to first silicon. And the rest of it is really execution of maybe more of the details of ramping its production. So we're pretty happy where that program is right now. And we do expect some material revenue from that to come in on the schedule that we originally outlined.

如您所知，根據您在這個市場的所有經驗，一旦您獲得第一個晶片，程式的背面就基本上被破壞了。剩下的部分實際上是執行可能更多的提高產量的細節。因此，我們對該計劃目前的狀況感到非常滿意。我們確實預計由此產生的一些物質收入將按照我們最初概述的時間表實現。

In terms of what we're ramping across the Board, that our vision programs that are ramping, that our user experience programs that are ramping throughout this year, not later, of course, that will be late this year, early next year. But yeah, I mean, it's still fundamentally across the Board and all of the other project areas that we're servicing right now.

就我們全面推進的內容而言，我們的願景計劃正在推進，我們的用戶體驗計劃將在今年全年推進，而不是晚些時候，當然，那將是今年年底、明年初。但是，是的，我的意思是，從根本上來說，它仍然是全面的，以及我們現在正在服務的所有其他項目領域。

Very good. Thanks, guys.

非常好。多謝你們。

Cody Acree, The Benchmark Company.

科迪·阿克里，基準公司。

Yeah, thanks, guys, for taking my questions. I guess given the magnitude of the decline in Q1, what is giving you confidence that you're going to see a ramp to support your fiscal year outlook? I guess what what are you expecting sequentially as you posted it through the year?

是的，謝謝你們回答我的問題。我想考慮到第一季下降的幅度，是什麼讓您有信心看到經濟成長將支撐您的財年前景？我猜你在這一年中發布它的順序有何期待？

I mean, we have programs ramping through the year, of course, which is has been typical of us through our entire public existence. And as I just mentioned and answered to the previous question, for sure, we do expect the market to recover. And I think you will see that message coming from multiple companies in the same space as us that they are seeing through that period a recovery.

我的意思是，當然，我們全年都有計劃，這在我們整個公共存在中都是典型的。正如我剛才提到並回答了上一個問題，我們確實預期市場將會復甦。我認為您會看到來自與我們同一領域的多家公司的訊息，他們正在經歷這段時期的復甦。

In particular areas in the market, we did see what I would describe as fairly dramatic air pockets. We've tried to be conservative in the way that we've guided Q1. And as a net result, we're pretty confident about a recovery in Q2 and a return to the plan in Q3, Q4.

在市場的特定領域，我們確實看到了我所描述的相當引人注目的氣穴。我們在第一季的指導方式上嘗試保持保守。最終結果是，我們對第二季的復甦以及第三季、第四季恢復計畫充滿信心。

And I guess, Donald, is that confidence backed by firm orders today? And I guess what's the flexibility or cancelability of those orders? I guess how much volatility are you building into your Q2 expectations?

我想，唐納德，今天的堅定訂單是否支持了這種信心？我想這些訂單的靈活性或可取消性是什麼？我猜你對第二季的預期有多大的波動性？

Well, like I say, we've tried to build in as much conservatism as we possibly can. I mean this have been a fairly -- in certain segments, a fairly violent disturbance in the market. But we do expect that with the recovery that we're seeing, coupled with the conservatism that we built, we feel pretty confident about where we can get to in the second half and in Q2, indeed.

嗯，就像我說的，我們已經盡力建立盡可能多的保守主義。我的意思是，在某些領域，這對市場來說是一場相當猛烈的騷亂。但我們確實預計，隨著我們所看到的復甦，再加上我們建立的保守主義，我們對下半年和第二季的目標充滿信心。

All right. Thank you, guys.

好的。感謝你們。

Jon Tanwanteng, CJS Securities.

Jon Tanwanteng，CJS 證券。

Hi, this is Justin on for Jon. Thanks for taking the question. First, how does the updated outlook impact your expectations for cash flow and your capital needs?

大家好，我是喬恩的賈斯汀。感謝您提出問題。首先，更新後的展望如何影響您對現金流量和資本需求的預期？

Well, between now and what Donald just outlined in terms of the back half of the year, cash flow will probably -- will resemble our operating loss. So you can assume somewhere in the $35 million to $40 million range of cash usage between now and then until we're beginning to generate cash, that is. And of course, we just exited with north of $150 million in cash, so that leaves us with ample cushion.

好吧，從現在到唐納德剛剛概述的今年下半年，現金流可能會類似於我們的營運虧損。因此，你可以假設從現在到那時，直到我們開始產生現金為止，現金使用量在 3500 萬美元到 4000 萬美元之間。當然，我們剛退出時帶著超過 1.5 億美元的現金，所以這給我們留下了充足的緩衝。

Okay. That's helpful. I appreciate the color. And then second one more, can you talk about the scale of the wins that you have in Q4 and try to size them for us, if any of them are significant?

好的。這很有幫助。我很欣賞它的顏色。第二個問題，您能否談談您在第四季度取得的勝利的規模，並嘗試為我們確定它們的大小（如果其中任何一個是重要的）？

Well, the one that we'd single out is the design win for Ficosa, who are a European-based Tier 1, and as such, supply with this particular program, two of the largest European OEMs. It's a program that we've been working on for quite some time. And I wouldn't say it's the largest program that we've won in the history of the company, but certainly in the top five.

好吧，我們要特別指出的是 Ficosa 的設計勝利，該公司是歐洲的一級供應商，因此為歐洲最大的兩家 OEM 廠商提供了這一特定計劃。這是一個我們已經研究了相當長一段時間的計劃。我不會說這是我們公司歷史上贏得的最大項目，但肯定是前五名。

Okay. Thanks a lot. I appreciate the question.

好的。多謝。我很欣賞這個問題。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, that concludes the conference of indie Semiconductor. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your line.

謝謝。女士們先生們，沒有其他問題了，獨立半導體會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。現在您可以斷開線路。