Independent Bank Corp (Massachusetts) (INDB) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us, and welcome to the Independent Bank Corp., first quarter earnings call.

各位女士、先生，感謝各位加入我們，歡迎參加 Independent Bank Corp. 第一季財報電話會議。

Before proceeding, please note that during this call, we will be making forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from these statements due to a number of factors, including those described in our earnings release and other SEC filings. We undertake no obligation to publicly update any such statements.

在開始之前，請注意，本次電話會議中我們將發表前瞻性陳述。由於多項因素（包括我們的財報新聞稿及其他向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交的文件中所述因素），實際結果可能與這些陳述存在重大差異。我們不承擔公開更新任何此類陳述的義務。

In addition, some of our discussion today may include references to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Information about these non-GAAP measures including reconciliation to GAAP measures, may be found in our earnings release and other SEC filings. These SEC filings can be accessed via the Investor Relations section of our website.

此外，我們今天的部分討論可能會提及某些非 GAAP 財務衡量指標。關於這些非 GAAP 指標（包括與 GAAP 指標的調節資訊），可在我們的財報新聞稿及其他 SEC 申報文件中查閱。這些 SEC 申報文件可透過我們網站的投資人關係（Investor Relations）專區取得。

Finally, please also note that this event is being recorded.

最後，也請注意，本活動將被錄音。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Jeff Tengel, CEO. Please go ahead.

接下來我想把會議交給執行長 Jeff Tengel。請開始。

Thank you. Good morning, and thanks for joining us today. I'm accompanied this morning by CFO and Head of Consumer Lending, Mark Ruggiero.

謝謝。各位早安，感謝今天加入我們。今天早上與我一同出席的還有財務長暨消費金融放款主管 Mark Ruggiero。

When we last spoke in January, I highlighted several major areas of focus for Rockland Trust in 2026, organic growth, expense management, and capital optimization. Our first quarter results reflect progress in all of these areas. While reported loan and deposit growth were somewhat muted, I will talk later about why we remain encouraged with our ability to continue to grow organically, and we held the line on expenses and continue to proactively manage our capital.

我們上次在一月通話時，我強調了 Rockland Trust 在 2026 年的幾個主要聚焦領域：內生成長、費用管理，以及資本最佳化。我們第一季的結果反映了在這些領域的進展。雖然帳面呈現的放款與存款成長略顯溫和，但我稍後會說明為何我們仍對持續內生成長的能力感到鼓舞；同時我們也守住費用水準，並持續主動管理資本。

The first quarter also saw continued NIM improvement, increasing 13 basis points from the fourth quarter. This reflects pricing discipline across both our loan and deposit portfolios. Excluding loan accretion income, our adjusted NIM rose by 8 basis points. Mark will elaborate on our NIM during his comments.

第一季也持續看到淨利差（NIM）改善，較第四季增加 13 個基點。這反映了我們在放款與存款投資組合上的定價紀律。若排除放款溢價攤銷（accretion）收入，我們調整後的 NIM 上升 8 個基點。Mark 將在他的發言中進一步說明我們的 NIM。

Excluding M&A charges, expenses were down 1.5% from the fourth quarter as we realized the impact of cost savings from the enterprise transaction, which was offset by seasonally higher employee and occupancy costs. Additionally, the quarter reduction benefited from the absence of certain outsized expenses occurred in the fourth quarter. With the investments we have made in people and technology over the past few years, we believe we have the scale to continue to grow without significant additions to our expense base.

若排除併購（M&A）相關費用，費用較第四季下降 1.5%，因我們開始體現企業交易所帶來的成本節省，但部分被季節性較高的員工與場地（occupancy）成本所抵銷。此外，本季費用下降也受惠於第四季曾發生的某些一次性較大費用在本季未再出現。憑藉過去幾年我們在人員與科技上的投資，我們相信公司已具備規模，可在不大幅增加費用基礎的情況下持續成長。

We returned $94 million of capital to shareholders in the first quarter, including the repurchase of 802,000 shares for $63 million. I would like to point out that despite our aggressive capital actions, tangible book value rose to $47.86. We also recently announced an 8.5% increase in our quarterly dividend. With expected further improvement in our profitability and moderate balance sheet growth, we expect capital management to remain a key priority for the balance of the year.

第一季我們向股東返還 9,400 萬美元資本，其中包括以 6,300 萬美元回購 802,000 股。我想指出，儘管我們採取積極的資本行動，有形帳面價值仍上升至 47.86 美元。我們也在近期宣布將季度股利提高 8.5%。隨著獲利能力預期進一步改善以及資產負債表溫和成長，我們預期在今年剩餘期間，資本管理仍將是關鍵優先事項。

There's a significant amount of work underway as we prepare to transition our core operating platform from Horizon to IBS, both part of the FIS ecosystem. The conversion scheduled to take place in October of this year. The new operating system will provide additional product capability and enhanced efficiencies that reflect the size and scale of our organization. This is an important milestone for Rockland Trust and will position us for future growth.

在我們準備將核心營運平台從 Horizon 轉換至 IBS（兩者皆屬於 FIS 生態系）之際，已有大量工作正在進行。此一轉換預計於今年十月進行。新的營運系統將提供更多產品能力與更高效率，以反映我們組織的規模與量體。這是 Rockland Trust 的重要里程碑，並將使我們具備未來成長的有利定位。

Related, I'd like to take a moment to talk about AI. This is obviously a topic on investors' minds. In the first quarter, we established an office of digital innovation. We have established a governance framework around our AI activities to ensure we stay within the guardrails of our moderate risk profile, and any actions are consistent with our award-winning culture.

相關地，我也想花點時間談談 AI。這顯然是投資人關注的議題。第一季我們成立了數位創新辦公室。我們也針對 AI 活動建立治理架構，以確保我們維持在中度風險屬性的護欄之內，且任何行動都與我們屢獲獎項的企業文化一致。

This governance framework includes a steering committee that will serve as a clearing house for AI use cases. This will allow us to make AI investments in those areas that have a meaningful payback and avoid the proverbial boiling the ocean. I expect us to start with some relatively easy use cases as we build muscle memory. Over time, this should enable us to gain confidence in our ability to execute and take on bigger, more impactful applications.

此治理架構包含一個指導委員會，將作為 AI 使用情境（use cases）的彙整與審核平台。這將使我們能在具備明確回收效益的領域進行 AI 投資，並避免所謂「把海水煮沸」式的無差別投入。我預期我們會先從一些相對容易的使用情境開始，以建立肌肉記憶。隨著時間推進，這應能讓我們對執行能力更有信心，並承接更大、影響更深遠的應用。

I mentioned earlier that loan into deposit growth was somewhat muted in the quarter. Given the Iran war, the marked volatility in interest rates and the lingering inflationary environment, it should be no surprise there is not a uniform consensus on the current business climate from our bankers and customers. The duration of the war and its impact on oil prices will dictate the ultimate effect and distribution companies, contractors with truck fleets, manufacturers, construction firms, and energy-intensive operators.

我先前提到，本季放款與存款成長略顯溫和。鑑於伊朗戰爭、利率顯著波動以及持續的通膨環境，我們的銀行同仁與客戶對目前商業景氣並未形成一致共識，這並不令人意外。戰爭持續時間及其對油價的影響，將決定對配送公司、擁有卡車車隊的承包商、製造商、營建公司，以及高耗能營運者的最終影響與波及範圍。

Clients broadly expect prolonged energy and commodity price volatility to weigh on cost structures. While a notable share of our clients indicate that they have adjusted to the current rate environment, others suggest that the higher rates have delayed expansion plans.

整體而言，客戶預期能源與大宗商品價格的長期波動將對成本結構造成壓力。雖然相當比例的客戶表示已適應目前的利率環境，但也有客戶指出，高利率已延後其擴張計畫。

Lastly, inflation remains a dominant concern across sectors, particularly with respect to labor, healthcare benefits, materials, and utilities. Suffice to say, the environment is best characterized as somewhat challenging. I would summarize our customers' mindset as cautious.

最後，通膨仍是各產業的主要憂慮，尤其是在勞動力、醫療福利、原物料與公用事業費用方面。總而言之，這個環境最貼切的描述是「有些挑戰」。我會將客戶的心態概括為審慎。

Importantly, though, we've not seen any meaningful stress in our loan portfolios as a result of the current environment, and our customers continue to manage through this very well. With that as a backdrop, our total commercial loans declined by $50 million from the fourth quarter. If we peel back the onion a bit, though, underlying results were stronger than reported.

不過很重要的是，我們尚未在放款投資組合中看到因目前環境而產生任何顯著壓力，客戶也持續非常良好地因應。在此背景下，我們的商業放款總額較第四季下降 5,000 萬美元。但若再深入拆解，基本面表現其實比帳面數字更強。

For example, excluding the impact of the $39 million decrease in our dealer floor plan business, which we are exiting, our C&I loans rose at a healthy 7% on an annualized basis. In addition, we would note that the office portfolio contributed $56 million of the $94 million drop in commercial real estate balances for the quarter.

例如，若排除我們正逐步退出的經銷商庫存融資（dealer floor plan）業務所造成的 3,900 萬美元減少，我們的工商業（C&I）放款以年化基礎計算仍健康成長 7%。此外，我們也要指出，本季商用不動產（CRE）餘額下降 9,400 萬美元中，有 5,600 萬美元來自辦公室投資組合。

Our CRE concentration now stands at 283%, and we believe we've achieved most of the targeted reduction in transactional CRE business. While we have reduced transactional free balances, we funded $179 million of relationship-based free loans in the first quarter and added $290 million of CRE commitments. We still like the CRE asset class, and we'll continue to support our clients in this space the way we always have.

我們的 CRE 集中度目前為 283%，我們認為在交易型 CRE 業務方面，已達成大部分目標性的降幅。雖然我們已降低交易型的獨立（free）餘額，但第一季我們仍撥款 1.79 億美元的關係型獨立放款，並新增 2.90 億美元的 CRE 承諾額度。我們仍看好 CRE 資產類別，並將一如既往持續支持此領域的客戶。

This dynamic continues the rebalancing of our commercial lending business. C&I loans now represent 25% of total loans versus 22% at year-end 2024. It's important to note that our C&I growth is being driven by core relationship banking. We do not have any exposure to the NDFI or private credit segments that have driven much of the industry's loan growth.

這樣的動態持續推動我們商業放款業務的再平衡。C&I 放款目前占總放款的 25%，高於 2024 年底的 22%。需要強調的是，我們的 C&I 成長是由核心關係銀行業務所驅動。我們並未曝險於推動業界多數放款成長的 NDFI 或私募信貸（private credit）領域。

In summary, we're optimistic about our market position. We have the product set and talent to drive commercial loan growth going forward. Our approved commercial loan pipeline totaled $313 million, up from $278 million at year-end. But importantly, we will not sacrifice credit structure or rate for new business. This is consistent with how the legacy Rockland Trust has always operated.

總結來說，我們對自身的市場定位感到樂觀。我們具備產品組合與人才，可在未來推動商業放款成長。我們已核准的商業放款案源（pipeline）合計 3.13 億美元，高於年底的 2.78 億美元。但更重要的是，我們不會為了爭取新業務而犧牲授信結構或利率。這與 Rockland Trust 一貫的經營方式一致。

On the funding side, period-end deposit balances were essentially flat. The 1.5% decrease in average deposits from the fourth quarter is consistent with prior years as seasonality tends to adversely impact business operating balances in the first quarter of the year.

在資金端方面，期末存款餘額基本持平。平均存款較第四季下降 1.5%，與往年一致，因季節性因素往往會在一年第一季對企業營運存款餘額造成不利影響。

DDAs represent 28% of overall deposits and the cost of total deposits was 1.36% in the first quarter highlighting the immense value of our deposit franchise. Similar to the loan portfolio, and as we've said many times, we will not sacrifice rate to show deposit growth with transactional one product customers.

活期存款（DDA）占整體存款的28%，而第一季總存款成本為1.36%，凸顯我們存款特許經營的巨大價值。與貸款組合類似，且如我們多次所說，我們不會為了向以交易型單一產品為主的客戶展現存款成長而犧牲利率。

With respect to asset quality, our net charge-offs were 11 basis points for the first quarter and have averaged just 11 basis points over the last year. As we suggested last quarter, we're not out of the woods yet with respect to our office portfolio. This quarter, several office loans exited the bank, while a couple of new office loans were added to criticized status. We continue to believe the challenges within our office portfolio are identifiable and manageable.

就資產品質而言，我們第一季的淨沖銷為11個基點，且過去一年平均也僅為11個基點。如同我們上季所提，我們在辦公室投資組合方面仍未完全脫離困境。本季有數筆辦公室貸款退出本行，同時也有幾筆新的辦公室貸款被納入受關注（criticized）狀態。我們仍然相信，辦公室投資組合內的挑戰是可辨識且可控的。

As I've mentioned in the past, there is no quick fix here. We remain diligent in managing this portfolio segment. And while we are confident the worst is behind us, we'll continue to be transparent with the market as we work down this asset class.

如我過去提到的，這裡沒有快速的解決方案。我們仍然勤勉地管理這一投資組合區段。雖然我們有信心最糟的情況已經過去，但在我們逐步降低這類資產曝險的過程中，仍將持續對市場保持透明。

Our wealth management business continues to be a key fee income driver for us. Despite an incredibly volatile market, our AUA were essentially flat at $9.2 billion as positive net asset flows and strong relative portfolio performance mostly offset market-related declines. Importantly, we were pleased with the diversity of new client inflows. Revenues grew at an 11% annual rate driven by higher asset-based fee revenue and insurance commissions.

我們的財富管理業務仍是重要的手續費收入驅動來源。儘管市場極度波動，我們的AUA基本持平於92億美元；正向的淨資產流入與相對強勁的投資組合表現，大致抵銷了市場相關的下滑。重要的是，我們對新客戶資金流入的多元性表示滿意。在較高的資產基礎管理費收入與保險佣金帶動下，營收以11%的年化速度成長。

We believe first quarter results represent another step forward in driving improved profitability at Rockland Trust. We remain focused on accelerating our organic growth, reducing our CRE office portfolio, and prudent capital management. These actions, coupled with our industry-leading deposit costs, disciplined expense management, and operational excellence will return INDB to our historical market premium valuation.

我們認為第一季的結果，代表Rockland Trust在提升獲利能力方面又向前邁進一步。我們仍專注於加速內生成長、降低我們的商用不動產（CRE）辦公室投資組合，以及審慎的資本管理。這些行動，加上我們業界領先的存款成本、嚴謹的費用管理與卓越的營運表現，將使INDB回到其歷史上的市場溢價估值水準。

I feel particularly confident about Rockland Trust's positioning across our markets, driven by the strength of our products the dedication of our people and the effectiveness of the strategies we put in place. I want to thank all Rockland Trust employees for their tremendous efforts in making the first quarter a success. Every measure of our success is a direct result of their commitment.

我對Rockland Trust在各市場的定位特別有信心，這來自於我們產品的實力、同仁的投入，以及我們所制定策略的有效性。我要感謝所有Rockland Trust員工在促成第一季成功方面所付出的巨大努力。我們成功的每一項衡量指標，都是他們承諾與投入的直接成果。

On that note, I'll turn it over to Mark.

說到這裡，我把時間交給Mark。

Thanks, Jeff. To summarize the quarter results, 2026 first quarter GAAP net income was $79.9 million and diluted EPS was $1.63, resulting in a 1.31% return on assets, a 9.02% return on average common equity, and a 13.67% return on average tangible common equity.

謝謝，Jeff。總結本季表現，2026年第一季GAAP淨利為7,990萬美元，稀釋後每股盈餘（EPS）為1.63美元，對應資產報酬率（ROA）1.31%、平均普通股權益報酬率（ROCE）9.02%，以及平均有形普通股權益報酬率（ROTCE）13.67%。

Excluding $3 million of merger and acquisition expenses and the related tax impact, the adjusted operating net income for the quarter was $82.1 million or $1.68 diluted EPS, representing a 1.35% return on assets, a 9.27% return on average common equity, and a 14.05% return on average tangible common equity.

扣除300萬美元的併購費用及其相關稅務影響後，本季調整後營運淨利為8,210萬美元，或稀釋後EPS 1.68美元，對應ROA 1.35%、平均普通股權益報酬率9.27%，以及平均有形普通股權益報酬率14.05%。

As Jeff alluded to in his comments, we maintained our robust CET1 capital ratios at 12.87%, while repurchasing $63.3 million in capital during the quarter, and increasing our common dividend 8.5% to $0.64 per quarter. With only $24 million left on the current repurchase authorization we anticipate establishing another round here in the second quarter as we continue to prioritize capital return to shareholders amidst an uncertain economic environment.

如Jeff在評論中提到的，我們在本季回購6,330萬美元資本並將普通股股利提高8.5%至每季0.64美元的同時，仍維持強健的CET1資本比率於12.87%。目前回購授權僅剩2,400萬美元，我們預期將在第二季再啟動新一輪授權，因在不確定的經濟環境下，我們仍將股東資本回饋列為優先事項。

We saw this element of uncertainty play out during the quarter in a couple of areas. The first area I'll note is in regard to pricing competition, particularly on the deposit side. As a bank that has never looked to lead with rate, we have seen some flow of excess customer funds leave for pricing that we are not willing to match.

我們在本季於幾個面向看到了這種不確定性的展現。我首先要提的是定價競爭，特別是在存款端。作為一家從不以利率領先為策略的銀行，我們看到部分客戶的超額資金流向我們不願意跟進的定價水準。

This dynamic, combined with seasonal volatility led to the fairly flat deposit balances quarter-over-quarter. We operate with conviction that finding the right balance of pricing discipline, while supporting our relationship customers is crucial, and we believe the Q1 results of flat deposit balances while reducing the cost of deposits 10 basis points is a strong outcome of this philosophy.

這種態勢，加上季節性波動，使得存款餘額季對季大致持平。我們堅信，在維持定價紀律的同時支持關係型客戶、找到適當平衡至關重要；我們認為第一季在存款餘額持平的同時將存款成本降低10個基點，正是此一理念的良好成果。

On the lending side, we saw demand impacted in a few areas, as all of the macroeconomic uncertainty that Jeff just talked about is keeping some customers on the sidelines. Our largest commercial portfolio, multifamily, is one particular asset class where we have seen this impact. With the reduced CRE portfolio, much more representative of our legacy relationship lending profile and an overall concentration level now in the low 280 range, we are comfortable suggesting a forward growth strategy commensurate with our historical approach.

在放款端，我們看到需求在幾個領域受到影響，因為Jeff剛提到的總體經濟不確定性使部分客戶選擇觀望。我們最大的商業貸款組合——多戶住宅（multifamily）——就是一個特別明顯受到影響的資產類別。隨著CRE投資組合縮減、更加符合我們傳統的關係型放款輪廓，且整體集中度水準目前降至280出頭的區間，我們有信心提出與我們歷史做法相稱的前瞻成長策略。

While this CRE strategy continues to play out, we remain extremely optimistic over our near-term C&I growth prospects. Reiterating the $39 million decrease associated with our winding down of the dealer floor plan portfolio, other C&I balances increased $78 million during the first quarter or 7% on an annualized basis. In addition, the rebuild of our approved total commercial pipeline should bode well for second half growth in 2026.

在此CRE策略持續推進之際，我們對短期內的商業與工業（C&I）成長前景仍極為樂觀。再次重申，與我們逐步結束經銷商地板融資（dealer floor plan）投資組合相關的餘額減少3,900萬美元；除此之外，其他C&I餘額在第一季增加7,800萬美元，折合年化成長7%。此外，我們已核准的商業放款管線總量回升，應有利於2026年下半年成長。

On the consumer side, typical seasonality drove reduced overall volumes in the mortgage business but an increase in saleable activity kept mortgage banking results relatively flat while absorbing runoff of lower yielding portfolio balances. In home equity volume has remained consistently strong with the $10 million increase in balances despite continued lower utilization rates versus pre-COVID levels.

在消費金融方面，典型的季節性因素使房貸業務整體量能下降，但可出售（saleable）業務活動增加，使房貸銀行業務表現相對持平，同時吸收了收益率較低的投資組合餘額流失。房屋淨值貸款（home equity）量能則持續強勁，儘管使用率仍低於COVID前水準，餘額仍增加1,000萬美元。

Switching gears a bit, the combination of the deposit cost reductions that I just discussed, along with loan and securities cash flow repricing dynamics drove a solid 8-basis-point lift in the core margin. And with elevated purchase accounting accretion versus the prior quarter, the reported margin rose sharply to 3.90% for the quarter.

稍微轉換一下話題，我剛提到的存款成本下降，加上貸款與證券現金流再定價的動態，帶動核心利差提升8個基點。此外，由於本季購買會計攤銷收益（accretion）高於前一季，報表揭露的利差大幅上升至本季3.90%。

The balance sheet remains very well positioned to continue to drive consistent improvement in the net interest margin while providing flexibility to lever up or down as needed, to stay neutral to any short-term rate changes from the Fed Reserve.

資產負債表仍處於非常有利的位置，可持續推動淨利息利差穩健改善，同時提供在需要時提高或降低槓桿的彈性，以對聯準會任何短期利率變動維持中性。

Moving to asset quality. We highlight the following notable items for the first quarter. Total nonperforming assets increased to $98.7 million or 0.52% of total loans, driven primarily by the downgrade of one office loan which has an approximately $2.8 million specific reserve established.

接著談資產品質。我們強調第一季以下幾項重點。不良資產總額增加至9,870萬美元，或占總貸款的0.52%，主要由於一筆辦公室貸款被降級，且已建立約280萬美元的特定準備金。

Net charge-offs for the quarter were $4.8 million or 11 basis points annualized with $4 million related to a pre relationship that was partially reserved for last quarter. And as a quick positive update, this $4 million charge-off loan was associated to a nonperforming office loan that actually repaid the full remaining balance subsequent to year-end, in fact, just a few days ago.

本季淨沖銷為480萬美元，或年化11個基點，其中400萬美元與一筆既有關係（pre relationship）相關，該筆在上季已部分提列準備。另外提供一個快速的正面更新：這筆沖銷400萬美元的貸款，係與一筆不良的辦公室貸款相關，而該貸款在年末之後已償還剩餘全部餘額，事實上就在幾天前。

The first quarter provision for loan loss was $5.5 million, and while total criticized and classified loans increased versus the prior quarter, Q1 levels of 4% of total commercial loans remain in the range we have experienced over the last year or so. The downgrades to criticized status during the quarter were primarily isolated to a few credits with no identified loss reserve recognized at this point.

第一季貸款損失準備提列為550萬美元；雖然受關注（criticized）與分類（classified）貸款總額較前一季增加，但第一季水準占總商業貸款的4%，仍落在我們過去一年左右所經歷的區間內。本季被降級至受關注狀態者，主要集中於少數幾筆授信，目前尚未認列任何已辨識的損失準備。

Our fee income businesses performed in line with expectations for the quarter coming in relatively consistent with the prior quarter results despite fewer days in the quarter. Jeff provided color on the positive momentum within our wealth management group, and we are also pleased with the continued expansion of our treasury management services as many of the newer C&I customers leverage the full suite of cash management products that we offer.

我們的手續費收入業務本季表現符合預期，儘管本季天數較少，結果仍與前一季相對一致。Jeff已就我們財富管理團隊的正向動能提供說明；同時，隨著許多較新的C&I客戶使用我們提供的完整現金管理產品組合，我們也對資金管理（treasury management）服務的持續擴張感到滿意。

On the expense side, I'll first point out that we did have a final round of severance related to the Enterprise acquisition that made up the majority of the $3 million of M&A expenses for the quarter. Total core expenses of $139.9 million are slightly higher than our guidance due primarily to significant snow removal expenses which was a little over $2 million for the quarter.

在費用方面，我先指出，我們確實就 Enterprise 收購案進行了最後一輪遣散費支出，這構成了本季 300 萬美元併購（M&A）費用的大部分。核心費用總額為 1.399 億美元，略高於我們的指引，主要是因為本季顯著的除雪費用，略高於 200 萬美元。

We remain focused on analyzing all areas of the bank to ensure expenses are appropriate and justified as we move forward into an environment where we know technology will play a larger role. Along those lines, our work on the upcoming core conversion is ongoing, with approximately $1.1 million of expenses in the first quarter, directly attributable to those conversion efforts. And lastly, as expected, the tax rate increased from the prior quarter to 23.38%.

我們仍專注於檢視銀行各個領域，以確保在邁向一個我們知道科技將扮演更大角色的環境時，費用是適當且合理的。在此脈絡下，我們針對即將到來的核心系統轉換（core conversion）的工作仍在進行中，第一季約有 110 萬美元的費用可直接歸因於這些轉換工作。最後，如預期，稅率較前一季上升至 23.38%。

With that, I'll now finish up by revisiting our 2026 guidance. First, we reaffirm our two primary profitability targets for the fourth quarter of 2026. The first is return on average assets of 1.40% and the second is return on average tangible capital of 15%.

接下來，我將以重新檢視我們 2026 年的指引作結。首先，我們重申 2026 年第四季兩項主要獲利目標。第一項是平均資產報酬率（ROAA）1.40%，第二項是平均有形資本報酬率（ROATCE）15%。

Regarding loan growth, we update our Korean construction full year estimates to now be flat to low single-digit percentage increases. All other loan and deposit estimates remain unchanged.

關於放款成長，我們將韓裔建築（Korean construction）全年估計更新為持平至低個位數百分比的增幅。其他所有放款與存款的估計維持不變。

From the net interest margin, we increased our estimate to suggest that the 2026 fourth quarter margin will now be in the range of $3.90 to 3.95% and while still assuming a 10-basis-point impact from purchase accounting accretion. All other guidance remains unchanged from the prior quarter.

就淨利差（NIM）而言，我們上調估計，指出 2026 年第四季利差區間將落在 3.90% 至 3.95%，同時仍假設購買會計增值攤銷（purchase accounting accretion）帶來 10 個基點的影響。其他所有指引均與前一季相同。

That concludes my comments. And with that, we will now open it up for questions.

以上是我的評論。接下來我們將開放提問。

(Operator Instructions) Justin Crowley, Piper Sandler.

（接線員指示）Justin Crowley，Piper Sandler。

I was wondering if you could start off on loan growth. You tweaked the guide a bit lower on the CRE side of course. So I was just curious if you could expand even a little more on what informed that decision.

我想先從放款成長談起。你們當然把商用不動產（CRE）那邊的指引稍微下修了一點。所以我想請你們再多說一點，是什麼因素促成了這個決定。

And then also if you could just give us a sense, you mentioned some caution on the borrower side. But just as far as demand, how you seen borrowers respond with some of the heightened macro volatility? And how long you think that could maybe persist here?

另外也想請你們分享一下，你們提到借款人端有些謹慎。但就需求而言，在宏觀波動加劇的情況下，你們看到借款人的反應如何？你們認為這種情況可能會持續多久？

Yeah. On the CRE side, it's interesting because the commercial real estate market has gotten very, very competitive. It's really competitive at -- we see it at the low end with a lot of the smaller banks and the mutuals, and we see it at the larger end too with some of the larger banks. And it's a space where, as I said in my comments, we're not going to stretch for structure or for rate. And so we think the environment has been -- is really very, very competitive. So we're continuing to support our existing clients where we can.

是的。在 CRE 方面很有意思，因為商用不動產市場已經變得非常、非常競爭。競爭非常激烈——我們在低端看到許多小型銀行與互助銀行（mutuals），在高端也看到一些大型銀行。而在這個領域，正如我在評論中所說，我們不會為了結構或利率而勉強自己。因此我們認為這個環境一直——也確實是非常、非常競爭。所以我們會在可行的情況下，持續支持我們既有的客戶。

The other thing that I think is providing a little bit of a cloud over the commercial real estate business in Eastern Massachusetts anyways is the prospect of rent control. And so a lot of the multifamily projects, and these would be mostly construction loans really aren't happening. A lot of the investors are on the sidelines and they're not commencing with any of the maybe historical pace that they would have in the construction space in that multifamily asset class. So we've definitely seen a marked slowdown there.

另外一件我認為在麻薩諸塞州東部的商用不動產業務上造成些許陰影的因素，是租金管制的可能性。因此，許多多戶住宅（multifamily）專案——而且多半是建築融資——其實並沒有在進行。許多投資人都在觀望，並未以過去在該多戶住宅資產類別的建築領域中可能出現的歷史速度來啟動專案。所以我們確實看到那裡出現明顯的放緩。

With respect to the second part of your question, it's kind of hard to pinpoint when that's going to turn. If you could tell me when the war is going to be over and when the price of oil is going to return to where it was prior to the war, I think I might have maybe a little bit better answer or maybe in listening to our clients have a better sense for how they're thinking about it. But I think caution right now is definitely the word I would use to express how generally that middle market and lower middle market client base feels.

至於你問題的第二部分，很難精準判斷何時會扭轉。如果你能告訴我戰爭何時結束、以及油價何時會回到戰前水準，我想我或許能給出更好的答案，或至少在聽取客戶意見時，更能掌握他們的想法。但我認為目前「謹慎」絕對是我用來形容一般中型市場與中小型市場客群感受的詞。

But it doesn't mean there's no activity at all. We still have clients that are very healthy and very strong, and they'll continue to invest where they think it's prudent. But it definitely is causing the owner-operators that we typically bank. It's just giving them pause and it probably makes some think a little bit long and hard, the phrase about measure twice and cut once, I think, is definitely something that they're probably running through their minds.

但這不代表完全沒有活動。我們仍有一些非常健康、非常強勁的客戶，他們會在認為審慎的地方持續投資。但這確實讓我們通常往來的業主經營者（owner-operators）更為猶豫。這讓他們可能會更三思而後行；我想「量兩次再下刀」這句話，確實可能正在他們腦中反覆思量。

Okay. Got it. That's helpful.

好的。了解。很有幫助。

Sorry, I'd just add from a guide standpoint. I think all of that uncertainty certainly has increased a bit over the first quarter. And I think just a bit of a positive element to it. The $40 million office loan, we had a sense could come to fruition here in 2026. But having that play out in the first quarter and creating a little bit more of a drag on net loan growth was -- those are probably the two primary drivers to just being practical around the expectations going forward.

抱歉，我再從指引角度補充一下。我認為所有這些不確定性在第一季確實又增加了一些。另外也有一個稍微正面的因素。那筆 4,000 萬美元的辦公室貸款，我們原本就覺得可能會在 2026 年實現。但它在第一季就發生，並對淨放款成長造成更大的拖累——這大概是我們在往後展望上務實調整預期的兩個主要驅動因素。

But I think in terms of opportunity and the pipeline growing, as Jeff alluded to, there's still a lot of optimism and positivity there. I think it's just a little bit more uncertainty with the war and the office payoffs to be quite honest driving the guide reset.

但就機會與管線成長而言，如 Jeff 所提到的，仍然有很多樂觀與正向的因素。只是老實說，戰爭與辦公室貸款提前清償（payoffs）帶來更多不確定性，促使我們重設指引。

Okay. Understood. And then just flipping to -- on the credit side, you saw nonperformers up a bit and then had the criticized inflow. Can you provide a little more detail on the drivers there? I think you mentioned office as a fact there, at least on the nonperforming side a bit. I'm not sure the extent when you look at criticized balances.

好的。明白。接著切換到——在信用方面，你們看到不良資產（nonperformers）略有上升，且被列為關注（criticized）的流入也增加。你們能否提供更多細節說明背後的驅動因素？我想你們提到辦公室是其中一個因素，至少在不良那邊有一些影響。但我不確定在看被列為關注的餘額時，影響程度如何。

And then I know it's pretty formulaic at this point, but just how all the inputs, how that gets you to an allowance that was pretty flat for the quarter, just where you feel or how you stand on credit quality.

另外我知道目前這部分相當公式化，但就所有輸入項而言，這些如何讓你們得出本季備抵（allowance）幾乎持平的結果？以及你們對信用品質的感受或目前的立場如何？

Yeah. I'll take the first part of that, Justin, and then I'll let Mark take the second part. With respect to the criticized assets, we really had three larger loans that moved to criticized status at make up the bulk of that increase.

好的。Justin，我先回答第一部分，第二部分我讓 Mark 來說。就被列為關注的資產而言，我們主要有三筆較大的貸款轉為關注狀態，構成了這次增加的大部分。

And all three are in different asset classes. Only one of those is in the office asset class, one of them is C&I. And the other one, I think, is in the multifamily space, which is really the first multifamily loan that I think has been criticized in quite some time. And in that particular instance, it's just a little bit slower lease-up, which we're not overly concerned about. It's just taken a bit longer and we were just being prudent in moving it to criticized status but still feel really, really confident that things are going to work out. So that's the quick overview of the increase in criticized loans.

而這三筆分屬不同的資產類別。其中只有一筆屬於辦公室資產類別，另一筆是工商業貸款（C&I）。第三筆我想是在多戶住宅（multifamily）領域，這其實是我認為相當長一段時間以來第一筆被列為關注的多戶住宅貸款。在那個案例中，只是出租進度（lease-up）稍微慢一些，我們並不特別擔心。只是花的時間比較久，我們出於審慎將其轉為關注狀態，但仍然非常、非常有信心最終會順利解決。以上是關注貸款增加的快速概述。

And as Mark pointed out, we're still well within the historical levels of criticized loans that we've operated at in the past. I'll let Mark address the second part of your question.

而如 Mark 所指出的，我們仍然處於過去營運時的歷史關注貸款水準範圍內。我讓 Mark 回答你問題的第二部分。

Yeah. Well, I think from a provision and standpoint, it dovetails into a bit of that answer, which is obviously the downgrades on those loans Jeff talked about drive a bit higher allocation in the model, as you'd expect.

好的。我想就提存（provision）與相關面向而言，這與剛才的回答有些呼應，也就是 Jeff 提到的那些貸款降級，會如你所預期地在模型中推動較高的配置（allocation）。

But they're not at a point now where we have any reason to suggest the specific reserves or actual loss reserve that needs to be set. So as a, call it, a risk-rated 7 loan versus a risk-weighted 6 loan there's a higher allocation in the model, but it won't move the needle too much. So that drove a little bit of the need for provision.

但他們目前還沒到我們有任何理由去建議應設定的特定準備金或實際損失準備金的程度。所以，作為一筆（姑且稱之為）風險評等為7的貸款，相較於風險加權為6的貸款，在模型中的配置會更高，但對整體影響不會太大。因此這也稍微推動了提列備抵的需求。

I talked about the $4 million charge-off in the quarter. That was a couple of million dollars higher than what we had reserved as of last quarter. So that required a couple of million dollars in provision. And then we are tweaking the model a bit to have a bit more of a conservative macroeconomic environment factor playing through.

我提到本季有400萬美元的沖銷。那比我們上季末所提列的準備金高出約200萬美元。所以這就需要再提列約200萬美元的備抵。另外，我們也在稍微調整模型，讓較為保守的總體經濟環境因子在模型中發揮作用。

I think on the consumer side, we feel really good about the credit picture right now, but I think you'd be naive to suggest there isn't a little bit more pressure on the health of the consumer. So $1 million or $2 million of added reserve on mortgage home equity portfolios is appropriate. So those would be the three main drivers behind the $5.5 million provision.

我認為在消費金融端，我們對目前的信用狀況感覺非常好，但如果說消費者的健康狀況沒有承受更多一點壓力，那就太天真了。因此，在房貸與房屋淨值貸款（home equity）投資組合上額外增加100萬到200萬美元的準備金是合適的。所以，這三項就是550萬美元備抵提列的主要驅動因素。

Obviously, there wasn't much loan growth. So that helps from a provision standpoint, but it was really the charge-off, the downgrades and a little bit of build on the consumer side.

顯然，貸款成長不多。所以從備抵提列的角度來看這是有幫助的，但主要還是沖銷、降評，以及消費端小幅增加準備金。

Great. And then just one last one. I gave a chunk of the buyback executed in the quarter. Obviously, a lot of volatility in the market, but with average pricing coming in about where we're at today. Just curious if you could speak a little more on the ability and appetite to keep this sort of a pace as you look to reduce excess capital?

了解。最後再問一個。我看到本季執行了一部分庫藏股回購。市場波動很大，但平均回購價格大致與我們今天的股價水準差不多。想請你多談談，當你們希望降低超額資本時，維持這樣的回購速度的能力與意願如何？

Yeah. I can tell you it will absolutely be a priority. The goal high level would be to keep capital relatively flat. Now we can lever up and down a little bit from there. But I think that's the right level that will allow us and afford us to do a bit of a management over holding company liquidity, CRE concentration, and obviously, optimizing capital.

是的。我可以告訴你，這絕對會是優先事項。高層次的目標是讓資本水準大致維持不變。當然我們可以在此基礎上稍微提高或降低槓桿。但我認為這是合適的水準，能讓我們在控股公司流動性、商用不動產（CRE）集中度管理，以及資本最佳化方面都有操作空間。

So I would say -- we haven't announced a new plan yet. I would very comfortable suggesting we will likely put one in place here in the second quarter, but the level of buybacks should be at a pace where we're going to try and keep capital relatively flat.

所以我會說——我們還沒有宣布新的計畫。我很有把握地說，我們很可能會在第二季推出一個計畫，但回購的規模應該會以我們試圖讓資本大致維持不變的速度來進行。

David Konrad, KBW.

David Konrad，KBW。

Just really a follow-up on the capital and the buyback. I mean, your CET1 levels is about 12.9%. And you started the buyback and it really didn't buy and I think earnings power is going to improve even if loan growth improves a bit. So maybe balance the discussion on why you would want desire to keep that flat instead of working that down a bit? And how you weigh the environment with like narrowing credit spreads in excess competition with potential using macro potential buybacks to offset that?

我想追問一下資本與回購。你們的CET1水準大約是12.9%。而你們開始回購後，其實並沒有買很多；而且我認為即使貸款成長稍微回升，獲利能力也會改善。所以也許可以談談，為什麼你們會希望把資本維持在這個水準，而不是把它降一些？以及在信用利差收窄、競爭加劇的環境下，你們如何權衡，並可能用回購來抵消這些宏觀因素的影響？

Yeah. It's a fair question. I think we're still feeling like there's a growth path that we'd like to leave some level of capital flexibility. Ideally, I've said this a few times now, ideally, we grow into that excess capital position. But we also are being realistic and recognize we're talking a lot about uncertainty in the environment, that's going to keep loan growth somewhat at bay. So we absolutely are looking at a minimum to basically keep flat.

是的。這是個合理的問題。我認為我們仍覺得有一條成長路徑，因此希望保留一定程度的資本彈性。理想情況下——我已經說過幾次——理想上我們是透過成長來消化這個超額資本部位。但我們也務實地認知到，我們談了很多環境的不確定性，這會讓貸款成長在某種程度上受到抑制。所以我們至少會以基本上維持不變為目標。

Doing more than that, David, to be honest, some of the practical limitations there will be funding. So in a holding company bank structure to basically fund that ideally would be through earnings and through bank to holding company dividends, doing that at a pace that exceeds earnings, put some pressure on the ability to rely on that as a funding base. So we would have to go to the outside market to borrow if we really wanted to ratchet that up. And I'm not saying we wouldn't do it, but we're still weighing that pro and con.

坦白說，David，如果要做得更多，一些實務上的限制會在於資金來源。在控股公司—銀行的架構下，要為此提供資金，理想上應透過盈餘以及銀行對控股公司的股利；若以超過盈餘的速度進行，會對以此作為資金基礎的能力造成壓力。因此如果我們真的想把回購速度再拉高，就必須到外部市場借款。我不是說我們不會這麼做，但我們仍在權衡利弊。

And then we are still being cautious about keeping CRE concentration at a range that we think is appropriate and allows us to grow when the market turns. So that 280% to 290% range, we're very comfortable with. But the more we do on the buyback side, the more that constrains keeping that the pre ratio in that range.

另外，我們對於將商用不動產（CRE）集中度維持在我們認為合適、並能讓我們在市場轉向時成長的區間，仍然保持謹慎。所以對於280%到290%的區間，我們非常放心。但回購做得越多，就越會限制我們把該比率維持在那個區間。

So we're trying to find that right balance of about, like I say, at a minimum, keeping capital flat that will not pressure funding and/or CRE concentration. But when you start to exceed that, we would just have to weigh sort of the pros and cons.

因此我們試圖找到適當的平衡點：至少讓資本維持不變，且不會對資金來源和／或CRE集中度造成壓力。但當你開始超過這個程度時，我們就必須權衡各種利弊。

Got it. Fair enough. And then maybe a follow-up. Just regarding the Fed's proposal for Basel III, just wondering if you had any thoughts on risk-weighted assets with any potential benefit in your mortgage or CRE portfolio given their guidance.

了解。可以理解。再追問一下。關於聯準會對巴塞爾協定III的提案，想請教你對風險加權資產（RWA）是否有任何看法？依其指引，你們的房貸或CRE投資組合是否可能有任何好處？

Yeah, we've done some rough modeling on that, and I think we would be comfortable suggesting our impact would be aligned with probably what you're seeing as sort of the industry expectation, meaning with 25% of our book in the consumer space, mortgage, home equity, where our LTVs are, I think you'd expect to see somewhere around 15 basis points of risk-weighted asset relief there.

是的，我們做了一些粗略的模型推估，我想我們可以有把握地說，我們受到的影響應該會與你看到的產業預期大致一致。也就是說，我們約25%的資產在消費金融領域——房貸、房屋淨值貸款——以我們目前的LTV水準來看，你大概會預期那部分的風險加權資產可減輕約15個基點。

And then on the commercial side, in general, 5 basis points of RWA relief. So that probably pencils out to 7% or 8% size of basis points, a 5% reduction in RWA, 15% reduction on the mortgage side. So it's about a 7% to 8% reduction in risk-weighted assets, which gives you about $150 million, $160 million of capital relief when this comes to fruition. It certainly allows for an expectation for even more buyback or obviously just more capital flexibility.

而在商業端，一般而言大概是5個基點的RWA減輕。所以換算下來大概是7%到8%（以基點效果來看），也就是RWA整體下降約5%，其中房貸端下降15%。因此風險加權資產大約可下降7%到8%，在落實後可帶來約1.5億到1.6億美元的資本釋放。這當然會讓人預期可以進行更多回購，或是顯然帶來更大的資本彈性。

Steve Moss, Raymond James.

Steve Moss，Raymond James。

Jeff, Mark, maybe just going back to the loan pipeline here and loan yields, just to see the step up in activity and the organic growth there. Just kind of curious where are you guys putting on loans these days?

Jeff、Mark，我想回到貸款管線與貸款殖利率，看到活動量提升以及內生成長。想請教你們現在大概以什麼利率承作新貸款？

Yeah. On the commercial side, Steve, it's low 6s, probably 6%, 10%, 6%, 20% range. runoff is in the 5% to 5.25% range on the commercial side. So you're still getting that 100-basis-point lift or so on the churn.

好的。商業端來說，Steve，大概在6%出頭，約6.10%到6.20%的區間。商業端到期／流失（runoff）的利率大概在5%到5.25%區間。所以在周轉替換上，你仍可看到大約100個基點左右的提升。

On the consumer side, there's not a lot of portfolio mortgage going in, but that's probably a little bit lower yield, call it, 5.75% to 6%. Most of the home equity volume continues to be prime. So that's obviously at a better rate. But the biggest driver on the commercial side, call it, low 6s replacing low 5s dynamic.

消費端方面，新增的投資組合房貸不多，但那部分殖利率可能稍低一些，大概5.75%到6%。大部分房屋淨值貸款的量仍是優質客群（prime）。所以利率顯然更好。但商業端最大的驅動因素，簡單說就是6%出頭取代5%出頭的動態。

Okay. And then in terms of the securities cash flows here that you have coming on come off, just curious, Mark, you mentioned deposit pricing, obviously, saw some things run off. Are you thinking of using some of those cash flows to continue to managed higher cost deposits lower? Or are you thinking about parking those into securities here? Or just what's the dynamic you're thinking going forward here?

好的。那關於你們證券投資的現金流入與到期流出，我想請教一下，Mark，你提到存款定價，顯然也看到一些存款流失。你們是否打算用部分現金流來持續把高成本存款管理到較低？還是打算把這些資金停放到證券上？或是你們對未來的思考動態是什麼？

Yeah. I think from a balance sheet position and liquidity management perspective, we'd be looking to keep the securities portfolio pretty flat where it is. I probably wouldn't want it to get too much lower than where we are, maybe down to 11%, 12%, we certainly would be comfortable. But I think I'd expect to see the majority of the cash flow go back into the securities portfolio.

是的。我認為從資產負債表部位與流動性管理的角度來看，我們會希望證券投資組合大致維持在目前的水準、相對持平。我大概不希望它降得比現在低太多，或許降到11%、12%，我們當然也會覺得可以接受。但我預期大部分的現金流會回流到證券投資組合。

We're seeing good yields there, and we're very conservative in terms of managing that portfolio. We're buying deep discounted fairly matured, mortgage-backed securities. We're not stretching for yield in that portfolio, but we're getting, on average, 4.25 rate. and that's replacing in the first quarter, actually, the $100 million that came off was at a $150 million rate.

我們在那裡看到不錯的殖利率，而且在管理該投資組合方面我們非常保守。我們買的是深度折價、期限相對成熟的抵押貸款支持證券（MBS）。我們不會在那個投資組合上為了追求殖利率而拉高風險，但我們平均拿到約4.25%的利率。而第一季實際上到期下來的那1億美元，原本的利率是1.50%。

I would expect more of what's going to run off in the second half of the year to be closer to 2%. But that dynamic giving you 200 basis points to 225 basis points of lift on the securities book is another big driver of the margin expansion you saw. But I would -- long way of saying, I would expect us to keep that portfolio relatively flat.

我預期今年下半年到期流失的部分會更接近2%。但這種動態讓你的證券帳簿獲得200到225個基點的提升，也是你看到利差擴張的另一個重要推動因素。不過我想——長話短說——我預期我們會讓那個投資組合維持相對持平。

Okay. I appreciate that color. And then in terms of just the multifamily business in Massachusetts, you guys have about a $2.9 billion book. Just kind of curious with the rent legislation here, are you guys going to tight underwriting standards. Are there any thoughts of adjusting the way you operate on that front? And could that be a little more of a headwind beyond just this year if it passes?

好的。謝謝你提供這些細節。接著就麻州的多戶住宅業務而言，你們大約有29億美元的部位。我有點好奇，考量這裡的租金立法，你們會收緊承作（underwriting）標準嗎？在這方面是否有調整營運方式的想法？如果法案通過，除了今年之外，是否可能成為更長期的逆風？

Yeah. I mean the most obvious headwind would just be the muted new business coming from construction loans in the multifamily space. As I mentioned in my comments, I think a number of investors, and I've spoken to several of them, and they'll tell me, look, we have choices. We don't have to invest in Massachusetts. We can invest in Connecticut or New York or wherever. And so I think we're going to -- until that issue gets -- there's some clarity around it. I think there's going to continue to be muted demand on the construction side.

是的。我想最明顯的逆風，就是多戶住宅領域的建築貸款所帶來的新業務會比較疲弱。如我在評論中提到的，我認為不少投資人——我也跟其中幾位談過——他們會告訴我：你看，我們有選擇。我們不一定要投資麻州。我們可以投資康乃狄克州、紐約或其他地方。所以我認為我們會——在這個議題有更明確的結果、出現一些清晰度之前。我想建築端的需求仍會持續偏弱。

Within the existing portfolio, our multifamily portfolio is, I would suggest is pretty seasoned. It's been underwritten consistent with historical Rockland Trust conservatism. We don't underwrite the trended rents or any of those sorts of things. So we feel really good about the existing portfolio of multifamily loans that we have.

就既有投資組合而言，我們的多戶住宅投資組合，我會說相當成熟。其承作標準一貫符合Rockland Trust歷史上的保守風格。我們不會用趨勢租金（trended rents）或那類假設來承作。因此我們對目前持有的多戶住宅貸款既有投資組合感覺非常良好。

We haven't seen any signs of stress as we kind of move through these quarters. So I think the biggest the biggest challenge is going to be with new business as opposed to feeling like our existing portfolio is going to experience stress.

在我們走過這幾個季度的過程中，尚未看到任何壓力跡象。所以我認為最大的、最大的挑戰會是在新業務，而不是覺得我們既有投資組合會出現壓力。

Okay. Fair. And then in terms of just going back to the office credit here, just want to clarify with regard to the payoff and the charge-off. Is it fair -- did I understand correctly that you charged off of $4 million and then the remaining balance, which I assume is the $137 million on the -- in the deck was paid off just a few days ago? Or is there a recovery?

好的。合理。那再回到辦公室（office）授信這邊，我想釐清一下關於清償（payoff）與沖銷（charge-off）。是否可以這樣理解——我是否理解正確：你們先沖銷了400萬美元，然後剩餘餘額（我猜是簡報裡的1.37億美元）在幾天前已經清償？還是有回收（recovery）？

No. We charge it off to the P&S that we knew was going to be the sale price, and then that sale went through like this week.

沒有。我們把它沖銷到我們知道會是成交價的P&S（買賣協議）水準，然後那筆交易大概就在這週完成。

Okay. Wasn't quite sure I heard it right. Great. And then one more thing just on the noninterest-bearing dynamics for the quarter. Just kind of curious, they went down quite a bit, but EOP was flattish. Was there anything seasonal that maybe we should have been thinking about.

好的。我剛剛不太確定自己有沒有聽對。很好。另外還有一點，關於本季的無息存款（noninterest-bearing）動態。我有點好奇，它們平均值下降不少，但期末（EOP）看起來相對持平。是否有任何季節性因素是我們應該納入考量的？

On the deposit side, particularly?

是指存款端，特別是？

Yeah, on non-interest bearing.

對，無息存款。

Yeah, there's definitely seasonality particularly in our business segment, where when you look at the data in the reporting for the quarter, we're encouraged by a couple of things.

是的，確實有季節性，特別是在我們的商業客群（business segment）。當你看本季的揭露數據時，有幾點讓我們感到鼓舞。

The first is we're still -- we still brought in new relationships and deposit dollars associated with new relationships that outpaced close relationships. So where we saw some of that average deposit pressure is in existing balances being utilized. And I would attribute that to a couple of things. One is typical seasonality tax payments, distributions, whatever it may be. We always see the low point of our deposits in the first quarter of a calendar year.

第一，我們仍然——我們仍帶來了新往來關係，以及與新往來關係相關的存款資金，增速超過了結束往來關係的部分。因此，我們看到的一些平均存款壓力，來自既有餘額被動用。我會把這歸因於幾個因素。其一是典型的季節性因素：繳稅、分配（distributions）等等。我們總是會在曆年的第一季看到存款的低點。

Second is, I think there is some level of just inflationary pressure that's probably increasing to some modest degree, a level of spend. So I think that's putting a little bit of pressure on outstanding deposit balances.

第二，我認為某種程度的通膨壓力，可能在一定程度上推升了支出水準。所以我認為這對存款餘額帶來了一些壓力。

And then third, to be very candid, there is some money that we knew we let go due to just not a willingness to match some of the rates that we're seeing in our market. So you may see a customer with X amount of dollars in their account, they're coming out a small piece and looking for top rate. And we're going to -- sometimes that answer is we price up and match sometimes depending on the overall relationship, we've been willing to not match.

第三，坦白說，有些資金我們是有意讓它流失的，原因是我們不願意去匹配市場上看到的一些利率。所以你可能會看到某位客戶帳上有X金額，他們會抽出一小部分去追求最高利率。而我們會——有時候視整體往來關係而定，我們會調高價格去匹配；但有時候我們也願意不去匹配。

So all factors are in play in the first quarter, but I'd say the biggest majority is the typical usage that we would look to see rebound in the second quarter.

所以第一季這些因素都在發生，但我會說最大宗仍是典型的資金動用，我們預期第二季會回升。

Laurie Hunsicker, Seaport Research.

Laurie Hunsicker，Seaport Research。

I just wanted to say where see was on office. So just to go back to office for a minute because I think I'm just a little bit confused. When I'm looking at your office nonperformers of $53.8 million, that $18 million that repaid is already out of those numbers, correct?

我只是想確認一下辦公室（office）的情況。所以再回到辦公室這塊一下，因為我覺得我有點困惑。當我看到你們辦公室不良資產（nonperformers）為5,380萬美元時，那筆已償還的1,800萬美元已經不在這些數字裡了，對嗎？

It's the $13.7 million is out of those numbers. It was originally being charged down to $13.7 million, and that paid off in April, correct.

是1,370萬美元已經不在那些數字裡了。它原本被減記（charged down）到1,370萬美元，然後在四月清償，對。

Okay. Perfect. Okay, right. So -- and then you initially had a $2 million reserve on that in the fourth quarter. So you took another [$2 million] before you charged it off and then this new when it came on, you took a $2.8 million specific reserve. So if I look at your loan loss provision for the quarter, it basically was all office. Am I thinking about that the right way?

好的。完美。好的，對。所以——你們在第四季一開始對那筆提了200萬美元準備金。所以在沖銷之前你又提了另外[200萬美元]，然後這筆新的進來時，你提了280萬美元的特定準備金。所以如果我看你們本季的貸款損失提存（loan loss provision），基本上幾乎都是辦公室相關。我這樣想對嗎？

The new nonperformer, the $17.7 million that has a $2.8 million reserve. We had already reserved $2 million of that last quarter. So just -- the appraisal suggests a bit more feedstock that would be needed. So it was only another call it, $800,000 of provision needed to establish that reserve. So I probably three out of the five is office related. The rest is just general reserve build.

新的不良資產是那筆1,770萬美元，對應有280萬美元的準備金。我們上季已經對其中提了200萬美元。所以——鑑價顯示需要再多一些「餘料」（feedstock）。因此只需要再提列大約80萬美元的提存，就能建立到那個準備金水準。所以我大概會說五成裡有三成是辦公室相關。其餘就是一般性準備金的增加。

Perfect. Okay. And then the $17.7 million that's new, is that a Class A or B? And do you have any occupancy? Can you give us any kind of color around that?

完美。好的。那筆新的1,770萬美元，是A級（Class A）還是B級（Class B）？有任何出租率（occupancy）嗎？你能否提供一些相關背景說明？

The $17.7 million new.

新的1,770萬美元。

Yeah.

是的。

Yes. Do you have that's A or B, Jeff, I don't. But it's basically -- the issue with that is it's a single tenant life science tenant that has represented to us; they will be exiting the facility.

是。Jeff，你有那是A或B嗎？我沒有。但基本上——問題在於，這是一個單一承租戶的生命科學租戶，他們向我們表示；他們將會退出該設施。

It's probably Class B would be my venture a guess.

我猜大概是B級（Class B）。

So we don't expect sponsor support when that happens. So we would likely be looking at a future foreclosure and the reserve that was established is based on an appraisal kind of on an appraisal on kind of as is basis.

所以當那發生時，我們不預期會有贊助方支持。因此我們很可能會面臨未來的法拍，而已建立的準備金是基於估值——某種程度上是以現況（as is）為基礎的估值。

Got you. Okay. And just remind me, your life sciences book, how big is that?

了解。好。再提醒我一下，你們的生命科學放款組合有多大？

It's not very big, Laurie. I'm going to -- I don't have it in front of me, but I'd say it's $100 million, plus or minus. It's not very big, and it's a little bit lumpy.

不算很大，Laurie。我——我手邊沒有數字，但我會說大約1億美元，上下浮動一些。不算很大，而且有點不均勻（lumpy）。

I know we have a couple of larger loans in there, one in particular that it was a construction loan, and I think we may have spoken about this in the past, but it continues to lease up really well, which is kind of bucking a trend in the general in that space. And so it continues to get better. Honestly, that larger loan that I'm referring to is criticized, and we think it's likely to get upgraded sometime over the course of 2026.

我知道我們裡面有幾筆較大的貸款，其中一筆特別是建築貸款；我想我們過去可能談過，但它的出租進度仍然非常好，某種程度上是在該領域整體趨勢中逆勢而行。所以它持續改善。老實說，我剛提到的那筆較大貸款目前被列為受關注（criticized），我們認為在2026年的某個時點很可能會被上調評等（upgraded）。

Yes. That's a $28 million loan that is in the Q4 maturity bucket. So that's $28 million out of the $54 million is that life science if you recall, it was once an empty building when we first started talking about this. So it's been very positive development.

是。那是一筆2,800萬美元的貸款，落在第四季到期的區間。所以在5,400萬美元中，有2,800萬美元是生命科學；如果你還記得，我們一開始談這個時，它曾是一棟空置的建物。所以這是非常正面的進展。

With good sponsorship, I might add.

而且我補充一下，贊助方很強。

That's great. And actually, that segue to my other question. By the way, I love the slide 10 details. Thanks for continuing to include that.

太好了。而且這也剛好帶到我另一個問題。順帶一提，我很喜歡第10頁投影片的細節。謝謝你們持續把那個放進來。

So yeah, so you touched on the $54 million that's coming due in the fourth quarter of '26. Is there anything kind of looking between the third and the fourth quarter, you've got $20 million coming due and obviously, of the $54 million you just touched on the '28. Is there anything -- I guess, maybe how should we be thinking about that? Is there any color you can give us on those loans?

所以，是的，你提到了在2026年第四季到期的5,400萬美元。在第三季和第四季之間，有2,000萬美元到期，且在那5,400萬美元裡你剛提到其中的2,800萬美元。有沒有什麼——我想，或許我們應該怎麼看待這些？你能就那些貸款提供一些說明嗎？

Yeah, to be honest, some of them, we've probably talked about in the past. I mean they each have their own story based on those stories if there is any loss exposure, we've reserved for it. But as you know, I think we've probably talked about most of the loans that have a specific reserve on and a lot of these either do not have reserve because we expect full resolution or they're pretty modest reserves. So we feel genuinely good about that.

可以。老實說，其中一些我們過去可能談過。我的意思是，它們各自都有自己的故事；若依那些情況存在任何損失曝險，我們都已提列準備金。但如你所知，我想我們大概談過大多數有特定準備金的貸款；而這裡很多要嘛沒有準備金，因為我們預期可全額解決（full resolution），要嘛準備金相當有限。所以我們對此確實感覺不錯。

I think to provide maybe one notable update, so I believe it's a fourth -- yeah, one of the fourth quarter maturity items now, it's about a $10 million loan. That was originally intended to mature here in the first quarter. So if you went back to our deck from last quarter, I believe you would have seen a $9.9 million or would have been part of what was set to mature in Q1. That was extended to Q4.

我想提供一個比較值得注意的更新：我相信這是第四——對，其中一個第四季到期項目，現在大約是一筆1,000萬美元的貸款。它原本預計在第一季到期。所以如果你回去看我們上季的簡報，我相信你會看到一筆990萬美元，或是它會是原本預計在第一季到期的一部分。那筆已延到第四季。

But that is a participation deal. The sponsor is looking to refinance or sell. Cash flow is improving. We felt a short-term extension was the right call to get that to a resolution that we still feel would get us paid out in full. So that's probably one to note just a few -- I know, Laurie, you've done a nice job of tracking some of these through the life cycle here. So that one is probably one worth noting. But in general, like I said, the rest of the short-term maturities, we feel knock on wood pretty good about.

但那是一筆參貸（participation）交易。贊助方正在尋求再融資或出售。現金流正在改善。我們認為短期展期是正確的決定，以便達成我們仍認為能讓我們全額收回（paid out in full）的解決方案。所以那大概是一個值得注意的點——我知道，Laurie，你一路追蹤這些案子的生命週期做得很好。所以那筆可能值得特別提一下。但整體而言，如我所說，其餘短期到期項目，我們覺得（敲敲木頭）相當不錯。

Okay. And then just switching over to the dealer floor plan loans. So you mentioned you're discontinuing that book. How quickly does that book run off? And can you give us the current balance and just any color behind your reasoning for discontinuing?

好。接著切換到經銷商庫存融資貸款（dealer floor plan loans）。你提到你們要停止這個組合。這個組合會多快自然到期／縮減（run off）？你能提供目前餘額，以及停止的原因背景嗎？

Yes. So the reason we decided to exit was just we felt like we didn't have scale to compete. The segment that we were in was tended to be smaller, I'll say, relatively undercapitalized used car dealers. That industry, as you know, has consolidated quite a bit, and the larger more well-capitalized companies didn't really fit our kind of our traditional profile. And so as we looked at it, we said to ourselves, we're not very big in this space.

可以。我們決定退出的原因是，我們覺得沒有規模去競爭。我們所在的細分市場多半是較小、我會說相對資本不足的二手車經銷商。如你所知，該產業已經相當程度地整併，而規模更大、資本更充足的公司其實不太符合我們傳統的客群輪廓。所以我們檢視後對自己說，我們在這個領域並不大。

And we don't really feel great about the prospects to grow it in a meaningful way. And I'm not a big fan of hobbies and I tell our people all the time. If we like the business and like the space, and let's put resources against it and let's grow it. If we don't, then let's exit because otherwise, we're going to make a mistake and then it'll come back to bite us. And so this was a good example of where we just didn't feel good about the go-forward strategy and our ability to be a meaningful player.

而且我們對於能否以有意義的方式成長，並沒有太好的感覺。我不太喜歡把業務當成「興趣嗜好」，我也一直跟同仁說。如果我們喜歡這門生意、喜歡這個領域，那就投入資源、把它做大。如果不喜歡，那就退出，否則我們會犯錯，之後反而會反噬我們。所以這就是一個很好的例子：我們對未來策略以及成為有份量參與者的能力，沒有信心。

And so we decided to exit I think it started with like $100 million, $150 million roughly of outstandings. And we're down to I think --

因此我們決定退出。我想一開始大約有1億到1.5億美元左右的未償餘額。而我們現在降到我想--

$70 million or $80 million.

7,000萬或8,000萬美元。

Yeah, $70 million or $80 million. It's actually gone quite well, to be honest with you, we've -- our team has done just a terrific job of placing -- facilitating the placement of a lot of these relationships with other banks.

對，7,000萬或8,000萬美元。老實說，進展其實相當順利——我們的團隊在安排、促成把許多這類往來關係轉介到其他銀行方面，做得非常出色。

So that the client, we're very -- trying to be very client-centric. The client isn't disadvantaged. They're able to get financing from another local bank that is interested in being in this business. And so we've -- I think we've done a nice job of doing this without a lot of customer disruption or negative implications in the market.

讓客戶——我們非常——努力以客戶為中心。客戶不會因此處於不利。他們能從另一家有意願經營這項業務的本地銀行取得融資。因此我們——我想我們在不造成太多客戶干擾、也不對市場造成負面影響的情況下，把這件事處理得不錯。

I just looked up. I think we're actually -- it's only about $50 million, a little over $50 million left. So I would imagine, Laurie, that will play out over the next year, probably 9 to 12 months.

我剛查了一下。我想我們其實——只剩大約5,000萬美元，略高於5,000萬美元。所以我想，Laurie，這在接下來一年、可能9到12個月內就會走完。

Yeah, we'll probably be substantially done by year-end.

是的，我們大概在年底前就會大致完成。

Okay. That's great. Okay. And then expenses, obviously, great guidance that you gave on slide 15. But if I'm just looking at a very high level, so you're at $143 million for this quarter, $3 million in merger, $3 million of Snow, and then $1 million of core conversion systems that takes you down to $137 million. And then obviously, this quarter had the FICA. How much was the FICA?

好。太好了。好。接著是費用，顯然你在第15頁投影片給了很好的指引。但如果我只從很高層次來看：本季是1.43億美元，其中3百萬是併購、3百萬是Snow，另外1百萬是核心轉換系統，這樣會降到1.37億美元。而且本季還有FICA。FICA是多少？

Payroll taxes quarter-over-quarter are up $1.2 million. I wouldn't suggest that goes back down -- that will gradually reduce over time. So if I had to predict, Laurie, it's probably you get $300,000 or $400,000 of expense relief in Q2 versus Q1, if you follow me?

薪資稅按季增加了120萬美元。我不會說它會回落——它會隨著時間逐步下降。所以如果要我預測，Laurie，如果你明白我的意思，第二季相較第一季大概會有30萬到40萬美元的費用減輕？

Yeah, I'm just looking at it just seems like your core expenses taking out that core seasons. I mean, you're just -- you're running better, lower, right? Am I thinking about that the right way? Or is there some other expense that's coming that's now?

對，我只是看了一下，感覺你的核心費用把那些季節性因素拿掉之後。我是說，你就是——你營運得更好、成本更低，對吧？我這樣想對嗎？還是現在有其他費用要進來？

No, you are. You're seeing the full cost save. There was a little bit here in Q1 that I admit we didn't capture a little bit left of M&A. So you actually have that in for half of the quarter in the expense base as well. We're also cognizant of April is when we do our annual merit increases.

沒有，你說得對。你看到的是完整的成本節省。第一季這裡有一點，我承認我們沒有完全抓到，還有一些併購（M&A）尾端的部分。所以在費用基礎裡，你也把那部分算進去了，大概只涵蓋了半個季度。我們也注意到4月是我們進行年度績效調薪的時間。

So you will see an uptick in salaries, all other things being equal, just from annual merit, call it, 3% on average. So I think it's holding the line. That's the mentality we're talking about is hold the line in all the major areas. But I think you -- I would hope and expect to see this kind of in that $138 million-ish, $139 million range.

所以在其他條件不變下，你會看到薪資上升，單純來自年度績效調薪，平均大概3%。所以我認為就是守住底線。我們談的心態就是在所有主要領域守住底線。但我想你——我希望也預期會看到費用大概落在1.38億到1.39億美元左右的區間。

And just as an anecdote, Laurie, we've talked a lot about the number of bankers that we've added over the last 6 to 12 months, mostly in the C&I space, and we've been able to do that without any net incremental increase in our FTEs in that commercial banking space.

另外補充一個例子，Laurie，我們談了很多過去6到12個月新增的銀行家人數，主要是在商業與工業（C&I）領域，而我們能做到這點，卻沒有讓商業銀行這一塊的全職員工數（FTE）出現任何淨增加。

It's been people who either have retired or we performance manage out or whatever. So when you look at the totals of our salespeople in our commercial space, it's relatively flat despite the fact that we've added a lot of really talented people over the last 12 months.

這些人要嘛是退休了，要嘛是我們透過績效管理讓他離開，或其他原因。所以當你看我們商業端的銷售人員總數時，儘管過去12個月我們加入了很多非常有才華的人，整體其實相對持平。

Got you. Okay. That's great. And then, Mark, just one quick question. And you flagged the outsized loan accretion income, and I appreciate that. But do you have a spot margin for March? Maybe even a spot margin --

了解。好。那很棒。然後，Mark，再一個很快的問題。你提到貸款折價攤銷（accretion）收入偏高，我很感謝你先提醒。但你有3月的即期利差（spot margin）嗎？甚至是一個即期利差--

Yeah, spot for March was -- yeah, sorry, go ahead. I didn't mean to jump in. You're looking for our core spot margin.

有，3月的即期是——對，抱歉，你繼續。我不是要插話。你要找的是我們核心的即期利差。

Core -- yeah, if you have it, yeah.

核心——對，如果你有的話，對。

It was $372 million. So in line with the total quarter. February actually had a little bit of a lift. We saw some more securities accretion with a little bit elevated payoffs. So I still expect it to increase, obviously, off of that number, but spot was $372 million.

是3.72億美元。所以和整個季度的總體一致。2月其實有一點上升。我們看到一些證券折價攤銷更多，因為提前償還（payoffs）稍微偏高。所以我仍然預期它會在那個數字之上增加，但即期是3.72億美元。

Okay. Great. And then, Jeff, last question for you. I know you've been pencils down on M&A, any sort of refresh now that BTC is fully digested and your core systems conversion is right around the corner. How are you thinking about that?

好。很好。然後，Jeff，最後一個問題問你。我知道你們在銀行併購（M&A）方面已經暫停推進（pencils down），但現在BTC已完全整合，而且核心系統轉換也近在眼前，有沒有什麼更新？你們怎麼看這件事？

Yeah. So just to be clear, like pencils down on bank M&A, we still remain interested in if it was in the wealth space or if there were unique deposit opportunities, whether it was branches or other ways that we could improve the overall franchise. But I would say we're still penciled down on bank M&A.

對。所以先說清楚，所謂對銀行併購（bank M&A）暫停推進，我們仍然對財富管理領域，或是有獨特存款機會的案子有興趣，不管是透過分行或其他方式，只要能提升整體特許經營（franchise）。但我會說，我們在銀行併購上仍然是暫停推進。

The conversion that we have coming up in October, is really a big deal. And so we're pretty focused on getting that done and getting it done well as I told a bunch of our people a few days ago. We have one chance to make a good impression through this conversion. So we have to get it right. And so we've been spending a lot of our time and energy making sure that we do that.

我們10月即將進行的系統轉換，確實是件大事。所以我們非常專注把它做好、做對；就像我幾天前跟很多同事說的。我們只有一次機會透過這次轉換留下好印象。所以我們必須把它做對。因此我們投入了大量時間與精力，確保能做到這點。

We also feel like we have a lot of really positive momentum and a good path to growth in a number of our core businesses, whether it's the wealth business, which we talked about, the C&I business, which we've been talking about the last couple of quarters. So we feel like organic growth very much remains kind of top of mind, and one of the things that we're focused on in addition to getting the conversion done well.

我們也覺得在多個核心業務上有非常正向的動能與良好的成長路徑，不管是我們談到的財富管理業務，或是我們過去幾季一直在談的商業與工業（C&I）業務。所以我們認為有機成長仍然是最重要的重點之一，也是除了把轉換做好之外，我們正在聚焦的事情。

And that, coupled with the environment. I mean the environment right now, as you know, is a little bit uncertain, but I would characterize our posture as pencil down.

再加上外部環境。我的意思是，如你所知，目前環境有點不確定，但我會把我們的立場形容為暫停推進（pencils down）。

Matthew Breese, Stephens Inc.

Matthew Breese，Stephens Inc.

Mark, maybe to start with you. Could you provide if you have the spot cost of deposits at quarter end? And just maybe expand upon your commentary around competition. I'd be curious in terms of, is it -- where is the most aggressive product-wise? And competitor-wise, are you seeing that mostly from the bigger kind of -- the bigger banks or the mutuals.

Mark，或許先從你開始。你能否提供季末的即期存款成本（spot cost of deposits），如果你手上有的話？另外也請再延伸說明一下你對競爭的評論。我想了解，就產品面而言，哪一塊最具侵略性？而在競爭對手方面，你看到的主要是來自更大型的——大型銀行，還是互助銀行（mutuals）？

Yeah. Taking the latter both, to be honest. It's certainly, Massachusetts is a bit of a unique environment. You have still a lot of mutuals at play that good operators, but they can be a bit aggressive on pricing. And we're seeing offers even from larger banks, other typical similar-size banking a lot in the 4% handle on the deposit side.

對。老實說，後者兩種都有。麻薩諸塞州確實是個有點特殊的環境。你仍然有很多互助銀行在市場上運作，它們是很好的經營者，但在定價上可能會比較積極。而我們也看到大型銀行的報價，其他同等規模的銀行在存款端很多都開到4%出頭。

In some cases, even 4.25%, I think I saw 4.50% offer out recently on a pretty large relationship. So it's very, very competitive. And it's those types of dynamics that I was alluding to, where, of course, we're looking at the overall relationship in if there's a portion of money that needs to be a 4% handle in the overall cost of deposits is where we'd like it to be, that's the relationship we're going to continue to support. It's when you start to get the majority of a deposit looking for, in some cases, higher than 4% rates. That's a tough one to justify, in my opinion.

有些情況甚至到4.25%；我想我最近還看到一筆相當大的關係戶報到4.50%。所以競爭非常、非常激烈。這就是我剛才提到的那種動態：當然，我們會看整體關係；如果整體關係中有一部分資金需要給到4%出頭，而整體存款成本也仍在我們希望的水準，那我們會繼續支持這段關係。但當你開始看到一筆存款的大多數資金在尋求、某些情況下甚至高於4%的利率時，依我看就很難合理化。

So you're seeing some of that dynamic. And like I said, it's probably heightened by the level of mutuals, and I can appreciate it's in the markets where we -- especially where we did the enterprise deal, you have some competitors in that space that are going to look to be aggressive because they view it as an opportunity.

所以你確實會看到一些那樣的動態。而且如我所說，這可能因為互助銀行的比例而更明顯；我也理解在我們的市場——特別是我們做了Enterprise那筆交易的市場——你會有一些競爭對手認為這是機會，因此會採取更積極的策略。

The spot rate on the cost of deposits for March, I'm pretty sure it was right in line, Matt, with the quarter end, like around 1.36%. So we're at a point now where I think you're still seeing the Fed cut in December. We were able to make some reductions. You had a little bit of the CD book still giving us some benefit as that was repricing.

3月的即期存款成本利率，我很確定，Matt，和季末差不多一致，大概在1.36%左右。所以我們現在處在一個我認為你仍然會看到聯準會在12月降息的時間點。我們也能做一些下調。你還有一點定期存單（CD）組合在重新定價時，仍然帶給我們一些好處。

You're basically at a point now where any CD maturities are going to sort of be neutral to cost of deposits. And I think because of the competition, I would imagine new money coming on is going to challenge the 1.36% rate to some degree. But I think keeping deposits flat or slightly up in this environment, it will be a pretty successful profile.

你們現在基本上已經到了一個點，任何CD到期對存款成本大致都會是中性。而且我認為因為競爭的關係，我想像新進資金在某種程度上會對1.36%的利率形成挑戰。但我認為在這樣的環境下把存款維持持平或小幅成長，會是一個相當成功的表現。

Got it. And then maybe just transitioning that into the NIM and the NIM guide. The presentation suggests that you're going to end the year with the NIM in the 3.90% to 3.95% range, I'm assuming that's the core NIM. Is that accurate?

了解。那接著也許把這個延伸到NIM以及NIM指引。簡報顯示你們年底的NIM會落在3.90%到3.95%的區間，我假設那是核心NIM。這樣理解正確嗎？

That is reported NIM with a 10-basis-point accretion assumption.

那是報表口徑的NIM，並假設有10個基點的收購溢價攤銷（accretion）。

So the 10 bps would be additive? Or is the --

所以這10個基點是額外加上去的？還是--

Sorry, go ahead.

抱歉，你先說。

So let's work off of the 3 to low 3.70s core NIM this quarter. Expected anticipated expansion is the 3.90% by end of the year, tack on another 10 bps, all in NIM close to 4% or just over by the end of the year. That's the way to think about it?

那我們以本季核心NIM約3%到3.70%出頭為基礎。預期年底擴張到3.90%，再加上另外10個基點，則整體NIM到年底接近4%或略高於4%。這樣理解對嗎？

No. I would suggest 3.72% core goes to call it, 3.82% core. Tack on 10 bps to get you to the 3.90% to 3.95% range.

不是。我會建議這樣看：3.72%的核心NIM提升到大約3.82%的核心NIM。再加上10個基點，就會到3.90%到3.95%的區間。

Got it. Okay. So I guess with that in mind, just considering flat deposit costs and then you roll on versus roll-off dynamics are still accretive by it sounds like 100 basis points or so. It feels like the longer-term trajectory here is north of 4% on that NIM. Is that a fair assumption?

了解。好。所以我想在這個前提下，考量存款成本持平，然後你們的續作（roll-on）相對到期退出（roll-off）的動態聽起來仍然有大約100個基點左右的增厚效果。感覺長期軌跡上NIM會在4%以上。這是合理的假設嗎？

I do think if the rate environment stays if the longer term and longer part of the curve stays where it is and we could move the loan yields closer to 6% then, yes, I think a NIM above 4% is a realistic end goal. I think that the guidance now, call it, 3 basis points to 4 basis points of core expansion per quarter does take into account the fact that we may see a basis point or 2 tick up in cost of deposits, if we're being realistic.

我確實認為，如果利率環境維持不變、殖利率曲線的中長端維持在目前水準，而且我們能把放款收益率拉近6%，那麼是的，我認為NIM高於4%是一個現實的終極目標。我認為目前的指引，也就是每季核心NIM擴張約3到4個基點，確實已把存款成本可能現實地上升1到2個基點納入考量。

So I think that's a little bit of the development that I would suggest over the next three quarters, you're going to get the loan repricing benefit, you're going to get the securities repricing benefit. Our goal will be to keep deposits flat. But having the pricing pressure that's out there, I'd say that's an area where you may see that eat into it slightly where it's probably more like a like I said, a 3-basis-point to 4-basis-point core margin expansion.

所以我認為接下來三個季度會出現一些這樣的發展：你們會拿到放款重訂價的好處，也會拿到證券重訂價的好處。我們的目標是讓存款維持持平。但在目前存在的定價壓力下，我會說你可能會看到它稍微侵蝕一些，因此核心利差擴張可能更像我說的每季3到4個基點。

Got it. Okay. Jeff, maybe one for you. We talked about transactional commercial real estate a few times now. I'm not sure I've ever seen a dollar amount put on it. What is the identified balance of transactional commercial real estate. Where was it? Where does it stand today? I think you said it's not as much of a headwind to growth, but maybe just characterize for us where you want it to be.

了解。好。Jeff，可能有一題給你。我們談過好幾次交易型商用不動產（transactional commercial real estate）。我不確定我是否看過你們給過一個金額。你們辨識出的交易型商用不動產餘額是多少？之前是多少？今天又是多少？我想你說過它對成長的逆風沒那麼大了，但也請你們描述一下你們希望它落在什麼水位。

Yeah. So that's a good question, Matt. I don't know that we have a specific number that I would point to in terms of what that is. We've actually talked about trying to get a bit more specific and then ring fence it and be able to talk about our commercial real estate businesses like a core relationship legacy Rockland Trust originated business and then a transactional book.

是的。這是個好問題，Matt。我不確定我們是否有一個我可以直接指出的明確數字來代表那一塊的規模。我們其實也談過要更具體一點，把它圈定（ring fence）起來，然後能夠把我們的商用不動產業務分成：核心關係型、由Rockland Trust過去承作的傳統業務，以及交易型的投組。

But it's obviously less today than it was a year ago, 1.5 years ago. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say it's probably somewhere between $300 million and $500 million, maybe towards the lower end of that $300 million. But we haven't really put pencil to paper to really identify, okay, how much is it and then when is it running off?

但很明顯，今天的規模比一年前、或一年前半要小。如果要我猜，我會說大概在3億到5億美元之間，可能更接近3億美元的低端。但我們還沒有真的把數字算清楚，去明確辨識：好，到底是多少，以及它什麼時候會自然到期退出。

As you can imagine, some of the transactional real estate is just -- it has a maturity date that's well beyond next year or two. And as long as it's performing, we're just going to have to continue to live with it. And that's not necessarily a bad thing because we're getting, obviously, the income off of it as long as the credit profile is okay. It's really the ones where we feel like there's some stress that we've been a lot more proactive at addressing and looking to move off.

如你所想，有些交易型不動產的到期日其實遠超過明後年。只要它的表現正常，我們就必須繼續持有。而這不一定是壞事，因為只要信用狀況沒問題，我們顯然仍能從中取得收益。真正讓我們更積極處理、並尋求退出的，是那些我們覺得有一些壓力的案子。

Okay. Two other --

好。另外兩個--

I hope that answers your question.

希望這有回答到你的問題。

No, that's great. The first one is just -- I would love your view on which way the pendulum is swinging on the rent control. just for kind of a quick Google search, it sounds like there's some -- it's contested. I'm just not sure to what extent. And I'd be curious what you think there. Is this like a likely outcome or not.

有，很好。第一個是——我很想聽聽你對租金管制（rent control）風向往哪邊擺的看法。就簡單Google一下，聽起來有一些——目前是有爭議的。我只是不確定爭議到什麼程度。也想知道你怎麼看。這是很可能會通過的結果嗎？還是不太可能？

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe we need to go to the betting markets to see what they're saying about this. My own intuition, and this is not based on any inside baseball or anything like that, is I think there's a good chance it doesn't pass because there's so much research out there that would suggest that it's not a good thing for the economy or for the commercial real estate.

是的。我不知道。也許我們得去看看賭盤市場怎麼說。我自己的直覺——這不是基於任何內部消息或類似的東西——是我認為它有很大機率不會通過，因為有很多研究指出，這對經濟或對商用不動產都不是好事。

In general, it can have a muted impact on new affordable housing, new development, and that's clearly not what we would like. We want to continue to see investments in affordable housing and new development. We're hopeful that that argument kind of wins the day.

一般來說，它可能會對新的可負擔住宅、新的開發案造成抑制影響，而這顯然不是我們想要的。我們希望持續看到對可負擔住宅與新開發的投資。我們希望這個論點最後能占上風。

But I'm no expert on this or my crystal ball is not all that precise. Mark, I don't know if you have opinions.

但我不是這方面的專家，我的水晶球也沒那麼精準。Mark，我不知道你有沒有什麼看法。

I was just going to add, I think in terms of significant influence, our governor has publicly stated being against it. I think there's a lot of business community lobbyists, including a chamber that I'm part of, that would likely start to weigh in and lean in on suggesting why this is not a good answer for the economy.

我補充一下，我認為就重大影響力而言，我們州長已公開表態反對。我想也有很多商界的遊說團體，包括我所屬的商會，可能會開始介入並積極說明為什麼這不是對經濟的好解方。

So the question becomes whether those voices outweigh sort of the voters, the consumers that on paper here, rent control, and think that'll help my pocket. So will the business community sort of messaging of why in the long term this is not good help defend what probably has some consumer momentum to get it passed? But I think to Jeff's point, that there'll be enough lobbyists and business offset to hopefully come against that.

所以問題在於，這些聲音是否能壓過選民、消費者那一端——他們在紙面上看到租金管制，就覺得這會幫到自己的荷包。因此，商界對「為什麼長期來看這不好」的訊息傳遞，能否有效抵禦那股可能推動其通過的消費者動能？但我同意Jeff的看法，應該會有足夠的遊說與商界力量來抵銷，並希望能反對它。

I think the other mitigant too here, though, is even if it does get passed, Massachusetts, if you look at the last decade, historically, rent increases have been below 5%, which is the proposed sort of cap of rent increases if this were to go through, the greater of 5% or CPI. So this is a state where rent has been pretty well contained, and it is partly because there's so much demand and need for affordable housing. So it's an area that I think has been somewhat contained. So I do think if this does get passed, there is a path forward here to suggest that it still works without a meaningful impact on our economy, but there is a lot of opposition against it.

我認為這裡另一個緩解因素是，即使它真的通過了，麻薩諸塞州如果你看過去十年，從歷史上看，租金漲幅一直低於5%，而這正是若該法案通過所提議的租金漲幅上限——5%或CPI取其高者。因此，這是一個租金一直控制得相當好的州，部分原因是對可負擔住房的需求與需要非常大。所以我認為這個領域在某種程度上一直受到控制。因此我確實認為，如果這真的通過了，仍有一條前進的路徑可表明它依然可行，且不會對我們的經濟造成實質性影響，但反對聲浪也很大。

Great. Last one, Jeff, you had mentioned the onset and work into AI and putting some resources aside for it. Just curious what your initial impressions are? Would love your thoughts on kind of impact to the longer-term expense trajectory or maybe even revenue benefits. Just curious. That's all I had.

很好。最後一個，Jeff，你提到開始投入AI並為此預留一些資源。只是好奇你最初的印象是什麼？也很想聽聽你對長期費用走勢的影響，或甚至可能帶來的營收效益的看法。只是想請教一下。我就這些。

Yeah. It's probably a little too early to quantify what we think the benefits will be. I would say for us, it's initially going to be around things like just making efficiencies, freeing up people's time to reinvest in other activities if they're doing things that are very standardized and routine and we think can be easily accommodated through a chatbot or something like that.

是的。現在可能還太早，無法量化我們認為效益會是多少。我會說，對我們而言，一開始會圍繞在提升效率這類事情上，釋放人們的時間，讓他們能把時間再投入到其他活動上；如果他們正在做非常標準化、例行性的工作，而我們認為可以很容易透過聊天機器人或類似工具來承接。

I am a believer in not trying to bite off more than we can chew, meaning I'd like to get some wins under our belt here, which in my mind probably means a bit more modest use cases. And then once we get some wins under our belt, I think that will give us some confidence that we can continue to do this well.

我相信不要貪多嚼不爛，也就是說，我希望先在這裡拿下一些成果；在我看來，這可能意味著先從較為溫和的使用情境著手。然後一旦我們累積了一些成果，我認為那會讓我們更有信心能持續把這件事做好。

I think as I said in my comments, we can develop some muscle memory around how we roll this out. And then, as we think about use cases, the more confidence we get, I think the bigger use cases we'll take on, which will have a bigger impact on the company. My intuition would also be it's going to probably lean more towards the expense side of things versus the revenue side of things. But a lot of that is still TBD.

我想如同我在評論中所說，我們可以建立一些「肌肉記憶」，了解我們如何推動這件事落地。接著，當我們思考使用情境時，信心越足，我認為我們就會承接更大型的使用情境，對公司帶來更大的影響。我的直覺也認為，它可能更偏向影響費用端，而不是營收端。但很多仍有待確定。

Jared Shaw, Barclays.

Jared Shaw，巴克萊。

Just a couple quick ones to wrap up. Mark, I don't know if you have the securities accretion. You still called out some of the indirect impacts, but do you have the dollar of securities accretion this quarter and maybe actually last quarter?

最後幾個簡短問題作結。Mark，我不確定你是否有證券折價攤銷（accretion）的數字。你仍提到一些間接影響，但你有本季的證券折價攤銷金額，以及也許上季的嗎？

I don't. Only because it's basically just like any other discount on a bond is how we're capturing it. I don't have the actual dollar amount, Jared. I'd have to follow up on that just to give you sort of the discount amortization, I guess, on the Enterprise bond is how I would quantify that, right?

我沒有。主要是因為我們的認列方式基本上就像處理任何債券折價一樣。我手上沒有實際的美元金額，Jared。我得再跟進一下，才能給你所謂的折價攤銷金額；我想我會用Enterprise那筆債券的折價攤銷來量化，對吧？

Got it. Okay. When you look at -- do you still feel that you can get to that 80% CD beta through the cycle? And then I guess, how are you looking at staying active in the deposit space, given the competition versus sort of the loan to deposit ratio, and how are you thinking about that dynamic?

了解。好。當你看——你仍然覺得在整個循環中可以達到80%的定存（CD）beta嗎？另外，我想問在存款市場競爭之下、相對於貸存比，你們如何看待維持存款端的積極性，以及你們如何思考這個動態？

Yeah, I think on the CD base, we're all in. I think cost of CDs is, what? Right around 3.30%. Let me just triple check my math. Yeah, it is right about 3.30%.

是的，我想在CD基礎上，我們是全力投入。我想CD成本是，多少？大約在3.30%左右。我再快速確認一下我的計算。對，差不多就是3.30%。

I think in terms of repricing down, as I mentioned in one of my earlier answers, that we've probably seen the vast majority of that. So even though Fed funds sitting around 3.60%, one-month money, brokerage CDs in the one-month space is probably closer to 4% now. So I think of it as we've sort of achieved that beta based on where we are today in our CD ladder.

我認為就往下重定價而言，如同我在先前某個回答中提到的，我們大概已經看到其中絕大部分了。所以即使聯邦基金利率在3.60%左右，一個月期資金、經紀CD在一個月期的利率現在可能更接近4%。因此我會把它視為：基於我們目前CD梯形結構（CD ladder）的位置，我們算是已經達到那個beta。

I would expect, because of the pricing pressure that's out there and the competitive dynamics, we still have a four-month 3.60% offer out there. That's the primary driver of any new CD money. So I think it's going to keep, like I said, cost of CDs somewhat at bay at where they are right now, if not maybe a little bit of an uptick.

我預期，由於外部的定價壓力與競爭態勢，我們目前仍有一個四個月期3.60%的方案在市場上。那是任何新增CD資金的主要驅動因素。所以我認為它會如我所說，讓CD成本大致維持在目前水準，不然可能還會小幅上升。

In terms of the overall deposit strategy, I would just sort of reiterate what I was suggesting earlier, which is continuing to stay as competitive as we think is appropriate on what we value as total relationship funding, and continuing to do what this bank has done for such a long time and attracting new money. That's the branches, that's the retail network involved in their communities. It's working with nonprofits. It's the C&I wins that we've been having, typically coming over with more deposits.

就整體存款策略而言，我只想重申我先前的意思：在我們認為適當的範圍內，持續在我們重視的「整體關係型資金」上保持競爭力，並持續做這家銀行長期以來一直在做的事——吸引新資金。那包括分行、深入社區的零售網路。包括與非營利組織合作。也包括我們在商業與工業（C&I）方面取得的勝利，通常會帶來更多存款一併轉入。

We still have good CRE relationships that hold money with us. So a lot of those pieces are still in place that have been able to drive deposit growth for us in the past. And then we'll couple that with being really smart about our pricing strategy.

我們仍有良好的商用不動產（CRE）客戶關係，資金也放在我們這裡。所以過去能推動我們存款成長的許多要素仍然到位。然後我們會搭配非常精準的定價策略。

The only other thing I'd add to that, because I agree with everything Mark just said about our deposit gathering, is we are trying to get a little bit more focused and a little bit more specific around some of the market disruption that's happening here.

我唯一想補充的是，因為我同意Mark剛才關於我們吸收存款所說的一切：我們正嘗試更聚焦、更具體地因應目前正在發生的一些市場動盪。

And we think that that's an opportunity for us because I think we're viewed as sort of the stable, not a lot of change going on. And that's not true with some of our competitors. We've been very focused on developing marketing programs and have both our commercial and our retail bankers arming them with data to help them try and take advantage of some of the market disruption that we're seeing. So we're really focused on deposit. We know that's an important part of the overall company and funding the loan growth that we hope.

我們認為那對我們是個機會，因為我想外界把我們視為相對穩定、變動不大的機構。而我們的一些競爭對手並非如此。我們一直很專注於制定行銷方案，並為我們的商業與零售銀行人員提供數據，協助他們把握我們所看到的一些市場動盪帶來的機會。所以我們非常聚焦在存款。我們知道那是整體公司很重要的一部分，也是支撐我們希望實現的放款成長的資金來源。

It's a lot of the things Mark talked about. It's being more strategic with some of the market disruption that we're seeing. And we have a number of businesses that aren't credit-oriented businesses. They're just deposit verticals that we're doubling back on and seeing if there's ways that we can't accelerate the growth in some of those areas.

這包含了Mark提到的許多事情。也包含更策略性地運用我們所看到的一些市場動盪。而且我們有一些業務並不是以授信為導向的業務。它們就是存款型的垂直業務，我們正在重新檢視，看看是否有方法能在其中一些領域加速成長。

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back to CEO, Jeff Tengel, for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我現在把電話交回給執行長Jeff Tengel作結語。

Thanks, everybody. Appreciate your interest in INDB and Rockland Trust, and have a great day.

謝謝各位。感謝大家對INDB與Rockland Trust的關注，祝各位有美好的一天。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位參與。您現在可以掛線。