IDT Corp (IDT) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, and welcome to the IDT Corporation's Third Quarter Fiscal Year 2023 Earnings Call. In today's presentation, IDT's management will discuss IDT's financial and operational results for the 3-month period ended April 30, 2023. During remarks by IDT's Chief Executive Officer, Shmuel Jonas, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. (Operator Instructions) After Mr. Jonas' remarks, Marcelo Fischer, IDT's Chief Financial Officer, will join Mr. Jonas for Q&A.

晚上好，歡迎參加 IDT Corporation 2023 財年第三季度財報電話會議。在今天的演示中，IDT 管理層將討論 IDT 截至 2023 年 4 月 30 日的三個月期間的財務和運營業績。在 IDT 首席執行官 Shmuel Jonas 講話期間，所有參與者都將處於僅聽模式。 （操作員指示）Jonas 先生髮言後，IDT 首席財務官 Marcelo Fischer 將與 Jonas 先生一起進行問答。

Any forward-looking statements made during this conference call, either in the prepared remarks or in the Q&A session, whether general or specific in nature, are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from those which the company anticipates. These risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to, specific risks and uncertainties discussed in the reports that IDT files periodically with the SEC. IDT assumes no obligation either to update any forward-looking statements that they have made or may make or to update the factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from those that they forecast.

本次電話會議期間所做的任何前瞻性陳述，無論是在準備好的發言中還是在問答環節中，無論是一般性的還是具體的，都受到風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與公司預期存在重大差異。這些風險和不確定性包括但不限於 IDT 定期向 SEC 提交的報告中討論的特定風險和不確定性。 IDT 不承擔更新其已經做出或可能做出的任何前瞻性陳述的義務，也不承擔更新可能導致實際結果與其預測產生重大差異的因素的義務。

In their presentation or in the Q&A session, IDT's management may make reference to non-GAAP measures, including adjusted EBITDA, non-GAAP net income and non-GAAP earnings or loss per share. A schedule provided in the IDT earnings release reconciles adjusted EBITDA, non-GAAP net income and non-GAAP earnings or loss per share to the nearest corresponding GAAP measures.

在演示或問答環節中，IDT 管理層可能會參考非 GAAP 指標，包括調整後的 EBITDA、非 GAAP 淨利潤和非 GAAP 每股收益或虧損。 IDT 收益發布中提供的時間表將調整後的 EBITDA、非 GAAP 淨利潤和非 GAAP 每股收益或虧損與最接近的相應 GAAP 指標進行了核對。

Please note that the IDT earnings release is available on the Investor Relations page of the IDT Corporation website. The earnings release has also been filed on the Form 8-K with the SEC.

請注意，IDT 收益發布可在 IDT Corporation 網站的投資者關係頁面上獲取。收益報告還以 8-K 表格的形式向 SEC 提交。

I will now turn the conference over to Mr. Jonas.

我現在將會議交給喬納斯先生。

Thank you very much, operator. Welcome to IDT's earnings conference call. After my remarks, Marcelo Fischer, IDT's Chief Financial Officer, will join me, and we'll be available to answer.

非常感謝您，接線員。歡迎參加 IDT 的財報電話會議。我的發言結束後，IDT 首席財務官 Marcelo Fischer 將與我一起回答問題。

My brief remarks today focus on the third quarter of our fiscal year 2023, the 3 months ended April 30. For a more detailed discussion of our financial and operational results, please read our earnings release filed earlier today and our Form 10-Q that we expect to file with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Friday.

我今天的簡短髮言重點關注 2023 財年第三季度，即截至 4 月 30 日的三個月。有關我們的財務和運營業績的更詳細討論，請閱讀我們今天早些時候提交的收益報告以及我們預計於週五向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-Q 表格。

For the third quarter of our 2023 fiscal year, IDT generated year-over-year increases in gross profit, adjusted EBITDA and EPS, highlighted by the continued expansion of our 3 high-growth, high-margin businesses and by the relatively resilient cash flow from our Traditional Communications segment even as revenue from this segment continued to decline.

在 2023 財年第三季度，IDT 的毛利潤、調整後 EBITDA 和每股收益均同比增長，這得益於我們 3 個高增長、高利潤業務的持續擴張，以及傳統通信部門相對有彈性的現金流，儘管該部門的收入持續下降。

NRS added new POS terminals and payment processing accounts a record pace this quarter and achieved solid year-over-year increases in all 3 of its recurring revenue verticals as well as in recurring revenue per terminal.

NRS 本季度以創紀錄的速度增加了新的 POS 終端和支付處理賬戶，並在所有 3 個經常性收入垂直領域以及每個終端的經常性收入中實現了同比穩健增長。

Advertising revenue decreased sequentially due to seasonal reductions in demand and the advertising industry's pullback, particularly in the digital out-of-home segment.

由於需求的季節性減少和廣告行業的衰退，特別是在數字戶外領域，廣告收入環比下降。

Behind the scenes, we're enhancing our advertising platform and diversifying our network partnerships to pursue new opportunities, both within and outside of the digital out-of-home market. This foundational work should pay off when advertising demand rebounds.

在幕後，我們正在增強我們的廣告平台並使我們的網絡合作夥伴關係多樣化，以在數字戶外市場內外尋求新的機會。當廣告需求反彈時，這項基礎工作應該會得到回報。

Given our success in accelerating the pace of new payment processing account sign-ups, increasing merchant services ARPU and bringing new premium features to our platform, we expect that NRS will continue to perform extremely well.

鑑於我們在加快新支付處理賬戶註冊速度、提高商戶服務 ARPU 以及為我們的平台帶來新的高級功能方面取得的成功，我們預計 NRS 將繼續表現出色。

At net2phone, we increased subscription revenue by 20% year-over-year while approaching cash flow breakeven. In the coming weeks, we expect to launch exciting new offerings and features that will help to build our momentum, including net2phone AI, which includes powerful analytical tools powered by artificial intelligence technology.

在 net2phone，我們的訂閱收入同比增長了 20%，同時接近現金流收支平衡。在未來幾週內，我們預計將推出令人興奮的新產品和功能，這將有助於增強我們的勢頭，其中包括 net2phone AI，其中包括由人工智能技術支持的強大分析工具。

At BOSS Money remittance, volume increased by 38% year-over-year, driving a 29% revenue increase. I'm especially pleased by the robust growth of BOSS Money's retail channel over the past few quarters. Throughout the rest of the BOSS ecosystem, the synergies between retail and direct-to-consumer drive better economics than we could achieve with a single approach. We believe that the same will be true for the money remitted. For that reason, we continue to focus on retail channel expansion as we invest to achieve scale and long-term profitability.

BOSS Money 匯款量同比增長 38%，帶動收入增長 29%。我對過去幾個季度 BOSS Money 零售渠道的強勁增長感到特別高興。在 BOSS 生態系統的其餘部分中，零售和直接面向消費者之間的協同效應比單一方法能夠帶來更好的經濟效益。我們相信匯出的錢也是如此。因此，我們在投資時繼續專注於零售渠道擴​​張，以實現規模和長期盈利能力。

With our diverse mix of businesses backed by a solid balance sheet and with no debt, IDT is positioned to continue delivering solid results across a wide variety of economic conditions, while returning value to our stockholders.

憑藉我們多元化的業務組合以及穩健的資產負債表和無債務的支持，IDT 能夠在各種經濟條件下繼續提供穩健的業績，同時為我們的股東帶來價值。

Before we move on to the Q&A, I want to thank our employees for their great work and thank our stockholders for putting their faith and their capital with us.

在我們進行問答之前，我要感謝我們的員工所做的出色工作，並感謝股東對我們的信任和資本。

Now Marcelo and I will be happy to take your questions.

現在馬塞洛和我很樂意回答你們的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from [Alex Rohr].

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自[Alex Rohr]。

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes, we can.

我們可以。

So just quickly this morning, the NRS Insights report showed 25,000 terminals currently, which implies a really strong month of May, so like 1,000 net adds at the month of May. Just wondering, was there anything particular probably on in the month of May that would have led to unusual strength?

今天早上，NRS Insights 報告顯示目前有 25,000 個終端，這意味著 5 月份的終端數量非常強勁，所以 5 月份淨增加了 1,000 個終端。只是想知道，五月份是否有什麼特別的事情可能會導致異常的強勢？

Alex, it's Marcelo. So you're right. You're reading things carefully. It's mostly because of rounding. May have been our best month ever for adding POSs into the network. But it's mostly rounding. We added more like 630 new POSs on a net basis. And because of rounding, it makes it looks like it's 1,000. But it was our largest increase ever at the moment.

亞歷克斯，我是馬塞洛。所以你是對的。你正在仔細地閱讀東西。這主要是因為四捨五入。可能是我們有史以來在網絡中添加 POS 的最好月份。但大部分都是四捨五入。我們淨增加了大約 630 個新 POS。由於四捨五入，它看起來像是 1,000。但這是我們目前有史以來最大的增幅。

Understood. And just shifting gears to mobile top-up. Cuba, I think at this point, we've been dealing with this for a long time. But what's driving the continued declines in the business? And is there some point at which you would expect the business to resume growing year-on-year?

明白了。只需切換到移動充值即可。古巴，我認為在這一點上，我們已經處理這個問題很長時間了。但到底是什麼原因導致該業務持續下滑呢？您預計業務會在某個時間點恢復同比增長嗎？

Yes. There's a bunch of factors that have driven it. I mean one is we really focus on profitable growth, and we're not just in it to have volume and some players that really come into the market and disrupt it, really not looking for profitability, maybe even they're losing money. And we've decided to sort of take, I'll call it, a wait-and-see approach and to see if they can afford to continue to subsidize the market. At the same time, our direct-to-consumer channel and our retail channel have been relatively stable.

是的。有很多因素推動了它。我的意思是，一是我們真正專注於盈利增長，我們不僅僅是為了擁有銷量，而一些真正進入市場並擾亂市場的參與者，實際上並不是在尋求盈利能力，甚至可能正在虧損。我們決定採取觀望態度，看看他們是否有能力繼續補貼市場。與此同時，我們的直接面向消費者的渠道和零售渠道一直相對穩定。

So it's much more of a situation in the wholesale side of the business than it is in those 2, but we have a bunch of new enhancements coming out both in retail and in direct-to-consumer that we expect to help increase growth as well as some new marketing campaigns. And our new Zendit platform, we hope, will help with the deterioration that we've seen in wholesale.

因此，批發方面的情況比這兩者更多，但我們在零售和直接面向消費者方面都推出了一系列新的增強功能，我們預計將有助於促進增長以及一些新的營銷活動。我們希望，我們新的 Zendit 平台將有助於解決批發行業的惡化問題。

The next question is from David Polansky.

下一個問題來自大衛·波蘭斯基。

David Polansky from Immersion Investments. I want to start, big picture, talking about NRS and poking kind of around how big this thing can get. I mean we've been sitting on sort of a unit TAM figure for NRS at about 200,000 retail locations. And just looking at market share data for a lot of your states, so I think New York and California, I think you have roughly a 25% market share. And I think New Jersey, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's somewhere in the 30% to 40% range. So is there a reason to think that we can't get to like a 25% share figure nationwide, which would put you somewhere in sort of the 50,000 unit range?

來自 Immersion Investments 的大衛·波蘭斯基 (David Polansky)。我想從大局開始，討論 NRS 並探討這件事能發展到多大。我的意思是，我們一直持有約 200,000 個零售點的 NRS 單位 TAM 數據。只需查看許多州的市場份額數據，我認為紐約和加利福尼亞州的市場份額大約為 25%。我認為新澤西州，我的意思是，如果我錯了，請糾正我，但我認為它在 30% 到 40% 的範圍內。那麼，是否有理由認為我們不能在全國范圍內採用 25% 的份額數字，這將使您處於 50,000 單位的範圍內？

Well, I mean I'd say 2 things. Just from walking around, I don't feel like we have 25% or 30% market share yet, but I hope to be there one day. That's in the New York, New Jersey area where I walk on more frequently. But again, the 200,000 number is really a very hard number to put our finger on it. I mean, again, more and more, we sell into stores that I wouldn't have thought would have been typical for NRS locations, whether or not it's beauty or dollar stores or general services, so auto parts stores, et cetera. And so I think like the TAM is a little bit of a moving target. .

嗯，我的意思是我要說兩件事。光是走一走，我覺得我們還沒有達到 25% 或 30% 的市場份額，但我希望有一天能夠達到那個水平。那是在紐約、新澤西地區，我走得比較頻繁。但話又說回來，20萬這個數字確實是一個很難確定的數字。我的意思是，我們越來越多地將產品銷售到我認為不會是 NRS 地點的典型商店，無論是美容店、一元店還是一般服務店，以及汽車配件店等。所以我認為 TAM 是一個移動目標。 。

So I don't know if that's really our gating factors, what percentage of that number we'll get. I think we have to continue to provide great service and great new products, and we'll continue to grow and continue to expand our sales channels. And again, we are doing that aggressively. You can see a little bit of that in the SG&A. And we expect to see the number of units increasing quite substantially over the next couple of months and, hopefully, long past that. But I think you'll start to see that May number ramp up.

所以我不知道這是否真的是我們的限制因素，我們會得到多少百分比的數字。我認為我們必須繼續提供優質的服務和出色的新產品，我們將繼續發展並繼續擴大我們的銷售渠道。再說一次，我們正在積極地這樣做。您可以在 SG&A 中看到一些內容。我們預計，在接下來的幾個月裡，單位數量將大幅增加，並希望能夠長期持續下去。但我認為你會開始看到五月份的數字上升。

Great. You mentioned, I mean, you're seeing increasing success in areas outside of your core C-store bodega channel. I mean how material is that at this point? Are you willing to discuss like is that like 10% of the 1,500 to 1,600 that you're doing? I mean is it really material at this point?

偉大的。您提到，我的意思是，您在核心便利店雜貨店渠道之外的領域看到了越來越多的成功。我的意思是，目前這有多重要？您是否願意討論您正在做的 1,500 到 1,600 次工作中的 10% 是這樣嗎？我的意思是，目前這真的很重要嗎？

I don't know the exact number. I would say that it's greater than 10%, but I don't know the exact. I didn't come here prepared to know from the sales, which is more recently, how many of them are outside of our traditional stores. So I don't want to give you an answer definitively.

我不知道確切的數字。我想說它大於10%，但我不知道確切的數字。我來到這裡並沒有準備好從最近的銷售中了解其中有多少是在我們的傳統商店之外的。所以我不想給你明確的答案。

Okay. And then apologies for the mundane question, Marcelo or Shmuel, could you help us understand sort of the seasonality in the NRS business? Like, will Q3 EBITDA margin always be lower than Q2? Is Q4 going to be like Q1 and Q2? I mean can you just sort of, I guess, directionally help us out? Or do you think that this quarter was sort of an aberration in terms of the last couple of quarters?

好的。然後，對這個平凡的問題表示歉意，Marcelo 或 Shmuel，你們能幫助我們了解 NRS 業務的季節性嗎？比如，第三季度的 EBITDA 利潤率會始終低於第二季度嗎？ Q4 會像 Q1 和 Q2 一樣嗎？我的意思是，我想你能直接幫助我們嗎？或者您認為本季度與過去幾個季度相比有些反常嗎？

I mean I think 2 things happened. I mean one is we had a relatively weak advertising quarter. And advertising is our highest margin contributor at NRS, so that definitely hurt this quarter in particular. Yes, I do think that there is some seasonality to the numbers. It's not dramatic, but there is some. And again, sometimes we sell more accounts then come online. So I think this particular quarter, we had a very strong quarter in terms of merchant processing sales, but a lot of that actual volume probably doesn't come on until this quarter. So I think you'll see a much better number next quarter. And again, our sales are increasing, so that will continue to be better and better.

我的意思是我認為發生了兩件事。我的意思是，我們的廣告季度相對疲軟。廣告是 NRS 利潤率最高的來源，因此這對本季度的影響尤其明顯。是的，我確實認為這些數字存在一定的季節性。這並不戲劇性，但確實有一些。再說一次，有時我們會出售更多帳戶然後上線。因此，我認為在這個特定的季度，我們在商業加工銷售方面有一個非常強勁的季度，但很多實際數量可能要到本季度才會出現。所以我認為下個季度你會看到更好的數字。再說一遍，我們的銷售額正在增加，因此會越來越好。

Great. And I have to ask on the capital markets side. It seems like things have calmed down a little bit, at least year-to-date. Is there anything we can be expecting in the near term on sort of net2phone or NRS monetization? Or is that sort of a wait and see?

偉大的。我還得問資本市場方面。至少今年迄今為止，事情似乎已經平靜了一些。短期內我們對 net2phone 或 NRS 貨幣化有何期待？或者這是一種觀望？

For the time being, it's a wait and see. I mean, again, we're continuing to make those businesses significantly more mature than they were, and hopefully, at the right time, great value will be achieved.

目前，還需觀望。我的意思是，我們將繼續使這些業務比以前更加成熟，並希望在正確的時間能夠實現巨大的價值。

The next question is from [Brian Warner].

下一個問題來自[Brian Warner]。

A private investor. Actually, David pretty much asked one of my questions, and that was really around the total available market. I'm wondering, just as an aside on that question, do you view the restaurant area as a potentially large area, and I'm wondering what progress and what you might call out as any areas that are particularly enticing in terms of what sort of the size of the market and where you think you can get good economics?

私人投資者。事實上，大衛幾乎問了我的一個問題，這實際上是圍繞整個可用市場的。我想知道，就像這個問題的旁白一樣，您是否認為餐廳區域是一個潛在的大區域，我想知道在市場規模方面特別有吸引力的任何區域以及您認為可以獲得良好經濟效益的區域有何進展以及您可能會稱之為什麼？

And then just final question, NRS, you seem to be reporting monthly sales that are certainly low to mid-single digits better than the industry, which is recurring with a lot of frequency. I'm wondering what you think that is from and if that sort of become a selling point for you guys or if you think it's more of an anomalous thing.

最後一個問題，NRS，您報告的月銷售額似乎比行業低至中個位數要好，而行業經常出現這種情況。我想知道你認為這是什麼，這是否成為你們的一個賣點，或者你是否認為這更像是一個異常的東西。

I would say I think 2 or 3 things. I mean, first on the restaurant industry POS world, I'll call it, I mean we do not have any intentions of trying to become a Toast or something like it. Like, that is not our goal at NRS. We do have a goal of serving small restaurants that wouldn't be maybe the best fit for a solution like Toast as well as to serve convenient stores that sort of have restaurants in the back of their locations. Again, it's not something you see if you're in the New York, New Jersey area very often. But if you start getting, I'll call it, Virginia and beyond, you'll start to see a lot of stores that have a restaurant component to it. And we definitely do intend to continue to serve that market better and better. We're in the process of making a small acquisition that hopefully will help us with that.

我想說我有兩三件事。我的意思是，首先在餐飲業 POS 世界中，我稱之為，我的意思是我們沒有任何意圖嘗試成為 Toast 或類似的東西。就像，這不是我們 NRS 的目標。我們確實有一個目標，即為可能不太適合 Toast 等解決方案的小餐館提供服務，也為那些在其位置後面設有餐廳的便利店提供服務。再說一次，如果你經常去紐約、新澤西地區，你就不會看到這種情況。但如果你開始，我稱之為弗吉尼亞州及其他地區，你會開始看到很多有餐廳成分的商店。我們確實打算繼續為該市場提供越來越好的服務。我們正在進行一項小型收購，希望能對我們有所幫助。

As far as your question regarding sort of sales at our stores being better than in the market generally, listen, I don't know enough about same-store sales everywhere else to know exactly how they compare, but it does seem to me like what you said is correct just based on what I hear on the radio. And what I would say is that, I mean, listen, I think our stores are very resilient. And some of that, as you know, from help they get from us.

至於你關於我們商店的銷售額一般比市場上更好的問題，聽著，我對其他地方的同店銷售額了解不夠，無法確切地知道它們的比較情況，但在我看來，僅根據我在廣播中聽到的內容，你所說的是正確的。我想說的是，我的意思是，聽著，我認為我們的商店非常有彈性。如您所知，其中一些來自我們的幫助。

But other factors of it is the fact that like we've always felt that when people stop going to a grocery store and getting their orders delivered to their house, that's the customer that, that grocery store really loses most of the time. Maybe they come in there, 1 out of every 3 times they would have gone. But they end up needing small stores like the ones that we serve even more often because now they're depending on them for items that they didn't beforehand. So I think that, that has something to do with it.

但其他因素是這樣一個事實，就像我們一直認為的那樣，當人們不再去雜貨店並不再將訂單送到他們家時，雜貨店在大多數情況下確實會失去顧客。也許他們進來了，每 3 次就有 1 次他們會去。但他們最終需要像我們更經常服務的小商店，因為現在他們依賴這些商店購買以前沒有的商品。所以我認為這與此有關。

Marcelo also has some thoughts on speaking to people at NRS.

馬塞洛對於與 NRS 的人交談也有一些想法。

Yes. I mean, obviously, we also look at the national data and compare them to NRS data. And we also kind of scratch our heads somehow a little bit. And I think we speculate that also our customers, they are going into this independent retail store to buy a lot more of what their needs are, okay, basic needs type of goods. And therefore, they'll do the more recurring transactions part of the strategy. So maybe that's also what's triggering why the growth is a little higher.

是的。我的意思是，顯然，我們還會查看國家數據並將其與 NRS 數據進行比較。我們也有點摸不著頭腦。我認為我們推測我們的客戶也會進入這家獨立零售店購買更多他們需要的東西，好吧，基本需求類型的商品。因此，他們將執行策略中經常性交易的部分。因此，也許這也是導致增長略高的原因。

The next question is from Adam Wilk.

下一個問題來自亞當·威爾克。

This is Adam Wilk with Greystone Capital. Can you hear me?

我是 Greystone Capital 的 Adam Wilk。你能聽到我嗎？

We can hear you well.

我們可以很好地聽到你的聲音。

I just had a few or maybe a couple of questions wrapped up into one for net2phone, really strong results there once again. And I'm just wondering, I know there was a good amount of focus on this at the annual meeting, and I'm sure not much has changed. But I just wanted to touch on maybe the sources of operating leverage that you're seeing, if anything has changed year-to-date, I'll say. And then maybe you can talk a little bit about Bridgepointe. Is there a channel partner, correct, and then maybe kind of what you're seeing in line with additional opportunities there in terms of channel partners and maybe the ability to drive more margin or leverage moving forward? And then maybe one quick follow-up, but we can start with those.

我剛剛將一些或可能是幾個問題集中到一個 net2phone 問題中，再次獲得了非常好的結果。我只是想知道，我知道年會上對此有很多關注，而且我確信沒有太大變化。但我只是想談談您所看到的運營槓桿的來源，如果今年迄今為止有什麼變化的話，我會說。然後也許你可以談談 Bridgepointe。是否有渠道合作夥伴，正確的，然後可能是您所看到的與渠道合作夥伴方面的額外機會一致的情況，以及可能推動更多利潤或槓桿向前發展的能力？然後也許是一個快速的後續行動，但我們可以從這些開始。

Okay. I mean I don't think that much has changed since the annual meeting in terms of our focus that we described for net2phone then quite thoroughly. Again, I think that the team at net2phone has really executed very well, and they've really made the cash flow generation a very big part of what they focus on. At the same time, they've really taken the bull by the horn and focusing on areas that we see massive growth coming down the line, whether or not that's AI that everyone is talking about or CCaaS products. Even CCaaS for small customers have those kinds of needs as well, and we have a product coming out specifically for them.

好的。我的意思是，我認為自年會以來，我們對 net2phone 的重點描述並沒有發生太大變化。再說一次，我認為 net2phone 的團隊執行得非常好，他們確實將現金流的產生作為他們關注的一個非常重要的部分。與此同時，他們確實抓住了機遇，專注於我們認為未來將大幅增長的領域，無論是每個人都在談論的人工智能還是 CCaaS 產品。即使是針對小客戶的CCaaS也有這些需求，我們有專門針對他們的產品。

We try to take some of the learnings that we've seen sort of also in other parts of the business. So NRS, like we've been very good at selling into stores with a very low price, easy offering to take it to the store and then upselling them into higher plans and other services and funding, et cetera, et cetera, that we provide. And we're really trying to now do that same type of a sale at net2phone as well where we come in there, being a relatively low-cost provider for their UCaaS services but then adding on all of these much higher tier, I'll call, products, again, whether or not it's CCaaS or call intelligence or et cetera, et cetera. I would say the only thing that's changed is maybe more of a focus on growing the base with more revenue rather than just growing the number of customers.

我們嘗試從業務的其他部分吸取一些經驗教訓。因此，NRS，就像我們非常擅長以非常低的價格向商店銷售一樣，很容易將其帶到商店，然後將其升級為我們提供的更高的計劃和其他服務和資金等等。我們現在確實正在嘗試在 net2phone 上進行同樣類型的銷售，以及我們進入那裡的地方，成為其 UCaaS 服務的相對低成本提供商，然後添加所有這些更高級別的產品，我再次稱之為產品，無論是 CCaaS 還是呼叫智能等等。我想說，唯一改變的可能是更多地關注通過更多收入來擴大基礎，而不僅僅是增加客戶數量。

Now in terms of answering your question about our channel partners, we are a channel-based business in net2phone as opposed to an NRS where we have really a very diverse strategy of direct channel as well as through IDT salespeople. And net2phone, with the exception of Canada, it's really a channel of business. And that's not changing. But when it comes to adding revenue on to the customers, some of that does become a direct sale from net2phone, depending on whether or not the channel partner feels, I'll say, sufficiently trained in being able to sell it. So some of our newer products really require a different type of a sale than some of our channel partners traditionally have done. I mean UCaaS and CCaaS are not necessarily sold by the same people, if that would be a way to explain it easily.

現在就回答您有關我們渠道合作夥伴的問題而言，我們是 net2phone 中基於渠道的企業，而不是 NRS，在 NRS 中，我們確實擁有非常多樣化的直接渠道策略以及 IDT 銷售人員策略。而net2phone，除了加拿大以外，它確實是一個商業渠道。這並沒有改變。但是，當涉及到為客戶增加收入時，其中一些確實會成為 net2phone 的直接銷售，這取決於渠道合作夥伴是否感覺（我會說）在銷售方面接受了足夠的培訓。因此，我們的一些新產品確實需要與我們的一些渠道合作夥伴傳統上所做的不同類型的銷售。我的意思是，UCaaS 和 CCaaS 不一定是由同一個人出售的，如果這樣可以輕鬆解釋的話。

Yes. Adam, I think to the operational leverage, when we decided to postpone the net2phone about 1 year ago, and we mentioned at the time that the focus was going to be turnaround and demonstrate that net2phone can be a growing and profitable company. So this past year, there was tremendous focus by the net2phone team on making the yield efficiencies, on trying to show that we're going to be able to get the company to be cash flow positive. And that we think we will start the new year being cash flow positive, even covering all the CapEx expenses that they incur. And now that we have achieved that or going to achieve that, the focus, as Shmuel mentioned, is going to be more growth towards bringing to market new products.

是的。 Adam，我認為對於運營槓桿而言，大約一年前，當我們決定推遲 net2phone 的推出時，我們當時提到重點將是扭虧為盈，並證明 net2phone 可以成為一家不斷增長且盈利的公司。因此，在過去的一年裡，net2phone 團隊非常注重提高收益率，努力證明我們將能夠讓公司實現正現金流。我們認為我們將以正現金流開始新的一年，甚至覆蓋他們產生的所有資本支出。現在我們已經實現了這一目標或將要實現這一目標，正如什穆爾提到的那樣，重點將是向市場推出新產品以實現更多增長。

CCaaS to play a bigger role as time goes by. It will help to guide ARPUs slightly higher. It's kind of a bigger part of the mix. So I think that's going to be the focus for this coming year, the things right now, working on the budget for this coming year. And I think that will continue to be now a growing company but also a cash flow generator in the next year.

隨著時間的推移，CCaaS 將發揮更大的作用。這將有助於引導 ARPU 略高。它是混合中更重要的一部分。所以我認為這將是來年的重點，現在的事情，制定來年的預算。我認為這將繼續成為一家不斷發展的公司，同時也將在明年成為現金流的創造者。

Okay. Yes, that's really helpful. And I appreciate the comments on cash flow, which is interesting just given the growth runway on reinvestment potential, I think, that sits in front of you. One quick question, just from your combined answers, is the U.S. for you guys, who are kind of less on the enterprise side, is that more of a channel market for you? Or is that more direct as you kind of increase your efforts there?

好的。是的，這確實很有幫助。我很欣賞關於現金流的評論，考慮到再投資潛力的增長跑道，我認為這很有趣，就擺在你們面前。從你們的綜合答案來看，一個簡單的問題是，對於你們來說，美國對企業來說不太重要，這對你們來說更像是一個渠道市場嗎？或者當你在這方面加大努力時，這會更直接嗎？

Yes. I mean the U.S. has been almost, until recently, a channel business. We have very little direct sales. Most recently, we started a new group to sell directly to larger enterprises. We just started about a few months ago. We're probably going to be adding more resources into that group as we go into this coming year. And that group has already got in about 1 client with about 4,000 seats. So going forward, we're going to have a direct group for trying to onboard larger enterprises.

是的。我的意思是，直到最近，美國幾乎一直是一個渠道企業。我們的直接銷售很少。最近，我們成立了一個新小組，直接向大型企業銷售。我們大約幾個月前才開始。進入明年，我們可能會向該小組添加更多資源。該團體已經吸引了大約 1 名客戶，擁有大約 4,000 個座位。因此，展望未來，我們將有一個直接的團隊來嘗試加入更大的企業。

Okay. Great. And then just in terms of Mexico, this may be jumping the gun, but there's a lot of talk about near-shoring opportunities or re-shoring opportunities. And I think there's a lot of bullish commentary just regarding the growth of that country in general in terms of the economy. And I'm curious as that takes place, does that sort of increase the opportunity set for you guys there? Or has anything changed on that front for that specific geography? Is there anything to sort of share at this point?

好的。偉大的。就墨西哥而言，這可能有些操之過急，但有很多關於近岸機會或再岸機會的討論。我認為有很多關於該國經濟總體增長的樂觀評論。我很好奇，當這種情況發生時，這是否會增加你們那裡的機會？或者該特定地理位置在這方面有什麼變化嗎？目前有什麼可以分享的嗎？

It's interesting. I mean Marcelo is sort of smiling as you were asking that question because we were talking about it this morning. And again, I do think that that's going to be a big area of growth. It has been already. But I think it will continue to be even bigger. The near shoring definitely helps net2phone, there's no question about it, particularly when it's done in Mexico. Although we are looking to extend other, I'll call them, nearshore markets.

這真有趣。我的意思是，當你問這個問題時，馬塞洛有點微笑，因為我們今天早上正在談論這個問題。再說一次，我確實認為這將是一個很大的增長領域。已經是了。但我認為它會繼續變得更大。近岸無疑對 net2phone 有幫助，這是毫無疑問的，特別是在墨西哥完成的時候。儘管我們正在尋求擴展其他市場，我將其稱為近岸市場。

We have a follow-up coming from [Brian Warner].

我們有來自 [Brian Warner] 的後續報導。

Just a quick question, you guys seem to have pulled the rabbit out of hat. So a lot of times with Traditional Communications and despite the obviously significant revenue headwinds, the EBITDA has held up remarkably well for what is generally viewed as a rapidly shrinking ice cube. And I'm just wondering if there's any reason to think that you can continue to milk that business for quite a few years or if you think maybe, over the next couple of years, if there's anything to sort of watch out for that could sort of be a clip in your cash flow there?

只是一個簡單的問題，你們似乎從帽子裡變出了兔子。因此，在傳統通信領域，儘管收入明顯面臨重大阻力，但 EBITDA 在通常被視為快速萎縮的冰塊中卻表現得非常好。我只是想知道是否有任何理由認為您可以在相當長的時間內繼續從該業務中獲利，或者您認為也許在接下來的幾年中，是否有什麼需要注意的事情可能會成為您現金流中的一個片段？

And a follow-up question, if you want to be generous with a thought. I'm wondering where you think net2phone or, for that matter, a well-run UCaaS company at maturity, and you can define it or not, what sort of EBITDA margin do you think that business is? Is it 20%? Or is it something significantly different than that, in your mind? Just curious about the thought you might share.

如果你想慷慨地表達一個想法，還有一個後續問題。我想知道您對 net2phone 的看法，或者就此而言，一家運營良好的成熟 UCaaS 公司，您可以定義它，也可以不定義它，您認為該業務的 EBITDA 利潤率是多少？是20%嗎？或者在您看來，這與此有顯著不同嗎？只是好奇你可能分享的想法。

Again, we have a model on the net2phone business that showed something a little better than that over time. I mean we're not getting there next year. That's for sure. But again, it will be better than that. As far as our traditional business, listen, we have to continue to make painful cuts to sustain the cash flow from that business. And that's never fun. And at the same time, we need to continue to develop features that keep our customers willing to pay for our services when, oftentimes, they can get it free somewhere else. And that's a struggle that we deal with every day. You've seen the reality in the numbers. So we do our best to continue going as long as we can. .

同樣，我們有一個關於 net2phone 業務的模型，隨著時間的推移，它顯示出比以前更好的東西。我的意思是我們明年不會到達那裡。這是肯定的。但同樣，它會比那更好。就我們的傳統業務而言，聽著，我們必須繼續痛苦地削減開支，以維持該業務的現金流。這從來都不是一件有趣的事。與此同時，我們需要繼續開發一些功能，讓我們的客戶願意為我們的服務付費，而通常情況下，他們可以在其他地方免費獲得服務。這是我們每天都要面對的鬥爭。您已經從數字中看到了現實。因此，我們會盡最大努力，盡可能地繼續下去。 。

But we do expect as we look ahead for our long-distance voice revenues to continue to decline most likely at the current pace. We don't see any turnaround in that trend. Actually, we're trying as hard as we can to manage the cost structure, to try to alleviate the impact to the bottom line. But that becomes harder and harder as time goes by. So I do expect, right, that the gross profit, the EBITDA for long-distance voice to continue to decline at the same rate and maybe at an accelerated rate as time goes by. And we hope to be able to offset some of that decline with the stronger performance by IDT digital payments with our mobile top-up offerings and other digital offerings.

但我們確實預計，展望未來，我們的長途語音收入很可能會以目前的速度繼續下降。我們沒有看到這種趨勢有任何轉變。事實上，我們正​​在盡最大努力管理成本結構，試圖減輕對利潤的影響。但隨著時間的推移，這變得越來越難。因此，我確實預計，隨著時間的推移，長途語音的毛利潤、息稅折舊攤銷前利潤將繼續以同樣的速度下降，甚至可能加速下降。我們希望能夠通過 IDT 數字支付以及我們的移動充值產品和其他數字產品的強勁表現來抵消部分下滑。

(Operator Instructions) As there are no more questions, this concludes our question-and-answer session and conference call. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

（操作員說明）由於沒有更多問題，我們的問答環節和電話會議到此結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連接。