InterDigital Inc (IDCC) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Good day. And thank you for standing by. Welcome to the InterDigital, Inc. fourth quarter, 2024 earnings conference call. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today. Raiford Garrabrant, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

再會。感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 InterDigital, Inc. 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。現在，我想將會議移交給今天的發言人。Raiford Garrabrant，投資者關係主管。請繼續。

Thank you Michelle and Good morning, everyone. Welcome to InterDigital's fourth quarter, 2024 earnings conference call.

謝謝米歇爾，大家早安。歡迎參加 InterDigital 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

I am Raiford Garrabrant, Head of Investor Relations, for InterDigital. With me. On today's call are Liren Chen, our President, CEO, and Richard Brezski, our CFO. Consistent with prior calls, we will offer some highlights about the quarter and the company and then open the call up for questions for additional details. You can access our earnings release and slide presentation that accompany this call on our investor relations website.

我是 InterDigital 投資者關係主管 Raiford Garrabrant。與我一起。參加今天電話會議的有我們的總裁兼執行長陳立人和我們的財務長理查德·布雷斯基。與先前的電話會議一致，我們將介紹本季度和公司的一些亮點，然後開放電話會議以了解更多詳細資訊。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上存取本次電話會議附帶的收益報告和幻燈片簡報。

Before we begin our remarks, I need to remind you that in this call, we will make forward-looking statements regarding our current beliefs, plans and expectations, which are not guarantees of future performance and are made only as of the date. Here of forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and events to differ materially from results and events contemplated by such forward-looking statements.

在我們開始發言之前，我需要提醒大家，在本次電話會議中，我們將就我們當前的信念、計劃和期望做出前瞻性的陳述，這些陳述並非對未來表現的保證，並且僅代表截至當日的情況。此處的前瞻性陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果和事件與此類前瞻性陳述預期的結果和事件有重大差異。

These risks and uncertainties include those described in the risk factor section of our 2024 annual report on form 10-K and in our other sec filings.

這些風險和不確定性包括我們 2024 年 10-K 表年度報告的風險因素部分和我們的其他證券文件中所述的風險和不確定性。

In addition, today's presentation may contain references to non-GAAP financial measures, reconciliations of these Non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP Financial measures are included in the supplemental materials posted to the investor relations section of our website. With that taken care of. I will turn the call over to Liren.

此外，今天的簡報可能包含對非公認會計準則財務指標的引用，這些非公認會計準則財務指標與最直接可比較的公認會計準則財務指標的對帳表包含在發佈到我們網站投資者關係部分的補充資料中。這樣就把這件事處理好了。我將把電話轉給立人。

Thank you. Raiford.

謝謝。雷福德。

Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. A year ago. At this moment, I shared our belief that interdigital has never been better positioned to drive groups.

大家早安。感謝您今天加入我們。一年前。此時此刻，我與大家分享了我們的信念：跨數字從未像現在這樣能夠更好地推動團體發展。

Now sitting here 12 months later, I'm delighted to share that in 2024 we deliver the best result in our history and since our technology are more critical than ever to an ecosystem, generating roughly $6 trillion in economic value every year, we believe we are just getting started.

12 個月後的今天，我很高興地告訴大家，2024 年我們將取得歷史上最好的成績，而且由於我們的技術對生態系統比以往任何時候都更加重要，每年創造約 6 兆美元的經濟價值，我們相信我們才剛剛起步。

Today. I'll recap the fourth quarter result, summarizing our highlights for the full year and provide more details on our growth path through 2025 and beyond including a significant development in our radio service program.

今天。我將回顧第四季度的業績，總結我們全年的亮點，並提供有關我們到 2025 年及以後的增長路徑的更多詳細信息，包括我們的廣播服務計劃的重大發展。

In the fourth quarter, we delivered another outstanding performance. Our revenue increased 140% year over year to $253 million while adjusted EBITA and Non-GAAP EPS nearly quadrupled year over year. As we discussed in our last earning call, we signed a new license agreement with Oppo last quarter covering the worldwide sales of Oppo, Realme and OnePlus devices.

第四季度，我們再次交出亮眼的成績單。我們的營收年增 140%，達到 2.53 億美元，而調整後的 EBITA 和非 GAAP EPS 年成長近四倍。正如我們在上次財報電話會議上所討論的那樣，我們上個季度與 Oppo 簽署了一項新的許可協議，涵蓋 Oppo、Realme 和 OnePlus 設備的全球銷售。

We have now licensed the world top four largest smartphone manufacturers and approximately 70% of annual smartphone shipment worldwide. We also added to the momentum in our smartphone program in the quarter through our renewed agreement with a major Chinese technology company ZTE and with our announcement that we have entered into binding arbitration with Lenovo to determine the final terms of a license and ended all litigations with them.

目前，我們已獲得全球四大智慧型手機製造商的授權，佔全球智慧型手機年出貨量的約 70%。我們還透過與中國大型科技公司中興通訊續約協議以及宣布與聯想達成具有約束力的仲裁，以確定許可的最終條款並結束與聯想的所有訴訟，增強了我們本季度智慧型手機計劃的發展勢頭。

Looking at 2024 overall, it was another outstanding 12 months for the company revenue for the year increased almost 60% to $869 million. The highest annual revenue in the company's history. Thanks to increased momentum across all our licensing programs and the new agreement with some of the world's largest device makers, we also deliver record level adjusted EBITA and EPS in 2024 which will cover those financial results in more detail in his section across our licensing programs.

放眼 2024 年，這對公司來說又是出色的 12 個月，全年營收成長近 60%，達到 8.69 億美元。公司歷史上最高的年收入。由於我們所有許可計劃的勢頭增強以及與一些全球最大的設備製造商達成的新協議，我們還在 2024 年實現了創紀錄的調整後 EBITA 和 EPS，我們將在我們的許可計劃部分中更詳細地介紹這些財務結果。

We close 14 new agreements throughout the year. In addition to our smartphone license with a [open] we sign a new license with Google covering a range of devices as well as new license with leading TV manufacturers, Samsung and TPV in consumer electronics and ROT program.

我們全年達成了 14 項新協議。除了與 [open] 簽署的智慧型手機許可證之外，我們還與Google簽署了涵蓋一系列設備的新許可證，並與領先的電視製造商三星和 TPV 簽署了消費性電子產品和 ROT 計劃的新許可證。

We have now closed license agreement worth more than $3.3 billion since the start of 2021. In 2024 more than 30% of revenue for the year come from consumer electronic and IOT program. This highlights the outside we see beyond our smartphone program and reflects how our video and wireless technology supports an expanding range of use cases.

自 2021 年初以來，我們已達成價值超過 33 億美元的授權協議。2024年全年營收30%以上將來自消費性電子與物聯網專案。這凸顯了我們在智慧型手機程式之外看到的外部世界，並反映了我們的視訊和無線技術如何支援不斷擴大的用例範圍。

As you may recall, we are in a binding arbitration to settle the final terms of our license with Samsung for mobile devices. The party finished the last round of hearing last October and we are expecting to have a final decision soon, but a reminder, Samsung already agreed to take a license for portfolio starting from January 1, 2023 and this binding arbitration will determine the final terms of the license.

您可能還記得，我們​​正在進行一項具有約束力的仲裁，以解決我們與三星之間行動裝置授權的最終條款。該方於去年 10 月完成了最後一輪聽證會，我們預計很快就會做出最終決定，但需要提醒的是，三星已經同意從 2023 年 1 月 1 日起獲得投資組合許可，此次具有約束力的仲裁將決定許可的最終條款。

Our research teams are firing on all cylinders as we grow our leadership in the development of key standards. Maintain our focus in quality of our innovation and breaking new ground in application of cutting-edge technology such as AI.

隨著我們在關鍵標準制定方面的領導地位不斷增強，我們的研究團隊正全力以赴。持續聚焦創新品質，在人工智慧等尖端技術應用方面取得突破。

We have been working on the application of AI to wireless and video for years and our leadership in the space was once again to the fore throughout 2024. In December, we received an innovation award from Fierce Wireless for outstanding innovation in Fierce Wireless related AI specifically, the word was for AI empowered receiver design for six G communication, which is AI and machine learning to improve performance of a wireless network.

多年來，我們一直致力於將人工智慧應用於無線和視頻，我們在該領域的領導地位在 2024 年再次佔據主導地位。12 月，我們因在 Fierce Wireless 與 AI 相關的傑出創新而獲得 Fierce Wireless 的創新獎，該獎項頒發給針對 6G 通信的 AI 賦能接收器設計，即透過 AI 和機器學習來提高無線網路的性能。

From AI to video wireless and licensing. Our industry leadership extends across the whole business. We hold more than 100 leadership position in standard organizations, and we are one of only three companies in the world to hold multiple chair position within three DPP. The standard body that sets cellular standards in licensing. Our Chief Licensing Officer, Iva Hanka Ranta was named among 50 most influential people in intellectual property by leading IP publication.

從人工智慧到視訊無線和授權。我們的產業領先地位遍及整個業務領域。我們在標準組織中擔任 100 多個領導職務，並且是全球僅有的三家在三個 DPP 中擔任多個主席職務的公司之一。負責制定蜂窩許可標準的標準機構。我們的首席授權長 Iva Hanka Ranta 被領先的智慧財產權出版物評選為智慧財產權領域最具影響力的 50 人之一。

We continue to excel, converting our research leadership into patent assets. Building on what we firmly believe is one of the strongest patent portfolio in our industry. In 2024 we made more than 5,000 new patent filings worldwide with our global portfolio. Now over 33,000 assets, the strength of our innovation was once again confirmed, but we were named one of the world's 100 most innovative companies for third concept year by Lexis Nexus.

我們繼續追求卓越，將我們的研究領先地位轉化為專利資產。我們堅信，我們擁有業內最強大的專利組合之一。2024 年，我們利用全球投資組合在全球提交了 5,000 多項新專利申請。現在，我們擁有超過 33,000 項資產，這再次證明了我們的創新實力，並且連續第三年被 Lexis Nexus 評為全球 100 家最具創新力的公司之一。

We were also named among the world's leading patent holders in Five G advanced video compression and Wi Fi in separate reports from Lexus. Nexus. Also, in 2024 we outlined a clear path to significantly increase our revenue and profit at our investor day where we announce new target of more than $1 billion in annual recurring revenue and $600 million in adjusted EBITA by 2030.

雷克薩斯的另一份報告還稱，我們還在 5G 先進視訊壓縮和 Wi-Fi 領域被評為全球領先的專利持有者之一。關係。此外，我們在 2024 年投資者日上概述了大幅增加收入和利潤的明確途徑，並宣布了到 2030 年實現年度經常性收入超過 10 億美元、調整後 EBITA 達到 6 億美元的新目標。

Now, turning to 2025 with a strong foundation to build on from last year. Our priority is to continue to execute our long-term growth strategy. We believe our technology is more valuable in an increasingly connected world. We lead the development of standardized technology that are implemented in billions of devices every year and we have a proven track record to convert our research and patent leadership into new license agreement.

現在，我們懷著去年堅實基礎，展望 2025 年。我們的首要任務是繼續執行我們的長期成長策略。我們相信，在日益互聯的世界裡，我們的科技更有價值。我們引領標準化技術的發展，這些技術每年被應用於數十億台設備，並且我們擁有將我們的研究和專利領先地位轉化為新的授權協議的成功經驗。

We plan to grow our business by focus on signing the remaining unlicensed smartphone vendors and by renewing our existing agreement at a higher level. When appropriate, we will build on our considerable progress in our consumer electronic and rot program and we intend to make more progress in our Greenfield opportunity in video services.

我們計劃專注於簽署剩餘的未經授權的智慧型手機供應商並在更高層次上續簽現有協議，以擴大我們的業務。在適當的時候，我們將在消費電子和腐爛項目的基礎上再接再厲，並打算在視訊服務的 Greenfield 機會中取得更多進展。

We feel strongly that our video technology underpins the viability of video streaming industry helping to support more efficient video compression, improving quality of pictures and enhanced user experience. This week, we initiated a multijurisdictional enforcement action against Disney including Disney plus, Hulu and ESPN Plus for the ongoing infringement of our intellectual property.

我們堅信，我們的視訊技術支撐了視訊串流產業的生存力，有助於支援更有效率的視訊壓縮、提高影像品質和增強用戶體驗。本週，我們對迪士尼發起了跨司法管轄區的執法行動，包括 Disney+、Hulu 和 ESPN Plus，以指控它們持續侵犯我們的智慧財產權。

Disney generated about $25 billion in streaming services revenue from over 250 million paying subscriber in FY'24. But in all our licensing programs we expect the vast majority of license agreement could be driven by amicable negotiations, but we are always prepared to defend the value of our innovation and our patent rights.

24 財年，迪士尼從超過 2.5 億付費用戶那裡獲得了約 250 億美元的串流服務收入。但在我們所有的授權計畫中，我們預計絕大多數授權協議能夠透過友好談判達成，但我們始終準備捍衛我們的創新和專利權的價值。

We believe that the significant investment in fundamental research over the past several decades should be compensated fairly which enable us to continue to invest in the next generation innovation that will benefit our customers and consumers worldwide in the future. Before I hand it over to Rich, I hope to see many of you who can make it to Mobile Congress in March. Please join us at our booth in hall five to see the very latest in wireless video and AI innovation.

我們相信，過去幾十年在基礎研究方面的大量投入應該得到公平的補償，這使我們能夠繼續投資於下一代創新，未來將使我們全球的客戶和消費者受益。在我將其交給里奇之前，我希望看到你們中的許多人能夠參加三月的移動大會。歡迎來到我們位於五號展廳的展位，參觀最新的無線視訊和人工智慧創新。

And with that, I'll let we talk you through the numbers in more detail.

接下來，我將向您更詳細地介紹這些數字。

Thanks Liren. As we noted in Q4, we delivered an outstanding finish to the year total revenue of $253 million increased 140% year over year and was above our outlook of $239 to $249 million driven primarily by new agreements that closed. After the prior guidance, our '24 revenue included catch up revenue of $136 million related to our fourth quarter license agreements with Oppo, Lenovo and ZTE.

謝謝Liren。正如我們在第四季度所指出的那樣，我們今年取得了出色的成績，總收入達到 2.53 億美元，比去年同期增長 140%，高於我們預期的 2.39 億美元至 2.49 億美元，這主要得益於新協議的達成。根據先前的指引，我們的 24 年收入包括與 Oppo、聯想和中興通訊簽署的第四季度授權協議相關的 1.36 億美元的追趕收入。

Our adjusted EBITA for the quarter of $198 million exceeded the top end of the outlook of $180 to $190 million. as the vast majority of the revenue upside flowed through and resulted in an adjusted EBITA margin of 78%. GAAP EPS for the quarter of $4.09 cents beat our guidance Non-GAAP EPS for the quarter of $5.15 cents came in below our guidance due to greater dilution from the converts on account of our higher share price and lower than expected Non-GAAP adjustments for Q4.

本季我們的調整後息稅折舊攤銷前利潤為 1.98 億美元，超出了 1.8 億至 1.9 億美元的預期上限。因為絕大部分收入上漲都流入其中，導致調整後的 EBITA 利潤率達到 78%。本季的 GAAP 每股收益為 4.09 美分，超過了我們的預期；本季的非 GAAP 每股收益為 5.15 美分，低於我們的預期，原因是由於我們的股價較高導致轉換稀釋較大，且第四季度的非 GAAP 調整低於預期。

However, for the full year, both GAAP EPS of $12.07 cents and Non-GAAP EPS of $14.97 cents came in at or above the high end of the range. Meanwhile, cash generation for the quarter was exceptionally strong with cash flow operations of $192 million and free cash flow of $169 million. Building on Liren's comments, I'll highlight a few noteworthy metrics from our full year, 2024 results. And provide the additional perspective of how each item has improved over the last four years.

然而，就全年而言，GAAP 每股收益為 12.07 美分，非 GAAP 每股收益為 14.97 美分，均達到或超過了該範圍的高點。同時，本季的現金產生能力異常強勁，營運現金流為 1.92 億美元，自由現金流為 1.69 億美元。基於立人的評論，我將重點介紹我們 2024 年全年業績中的一些值得注意的指標。並提供過去四年中每項內容如何改進的額外視角。

All together these metrics demonstrate our success in progressing towards our objective of delivering $1 billion plus in annual recurring revenue and $600 million plus of adjusted EBITDA by 2030. Total revenue accelerated to $869 million an increase of 58% year over year, resulting in a compound annual growth rate of 25% over the past four years.

所有這些指標都表明，我們已成功朝著我們的目標邁進，即到 2030 年實現每年 10 億美元以上的經常性收入和 6 億美元以上的調整後 EBITDA。總收入加速至 8.69 億美元，年增 58%，過去四年的複合年增長率為 25%。

Our 2024 revenue included $269 million of CEIOT revenue more than triple prior year levels. This result which includes our milestone agreement with Samsung TV. Demonstrates our ability to grow revenue by capitalizing on the value of our found. The foundational technologies bring to markets beyond smartphones adjusted EBITA. Even our margin was very strong again 2024 coming in at 63% a 20 point improvement over the past four years, over that same time frame adjusted EBITA has grown more than 3.5 times.

我們的 2024 年收入包括 2.69 億美元的 CEIOT 收入，是去年收入的三倍多。這一結果包括我們與三星電視達成的里程碑協議。展現我們利用發現的價值來增加收入的能力。基礎技術為智慧型手機調整後 EBITA 以外的市場帶來了好處。我們的利潤率在 2024 年再次非常強勁，達到 63%，比過去四年提高了 20 個百分點，在同一時間段內，調整後的 EBITA 增長了 3.5 倍以上。

We ended the year with almost $1 billion in cash including net cash of over $500 million which is up more than $100 million from last year. Full year cash flow continued to be robust with $272 million of cash from operations and $213 million of free cash flow for the year.

我們截至年底的現金餘額接近 10 億美元，其中淨現金超過 5 億美元，比去年增加了 1 億多美元。全年現金流持續強勁，全年營運現金流為 2.72 億美元，自由現金流為 2.13 億美元。

In fact, over the last four years, we have generated nearly three quarters of a billion in free cash flow. These strong cash flows allowed us to return $110 million to shareholders through buybacks and dividends and $126 million to holders of our '24 notes upon their maturity last spring.

事實上，在過去四年裡，我們已經產生了近7.5億美元的自由現金流。強勁的現金流使我們能夠透過回購和股息向股東返還 1.1 億美元，並向去年春季到期的 24 年票據持有人返還 1.26 億美元。

Over the last four years, we have returned the vast majority of our free cash flow to shareholders through share buybacks and dividends totalling $678 million. In that time, we have reduced our outstanding share count by 5.1 million shares or 17% to 25.7 million shares at the end of 2024.

在過去四年中，我們透過股票回購和股利將絕大部分自由現金流返還給股東，總額達 6.78 億美元。在此期間，我們將流通股數減少了 510 萬股，即 17%，至 2024 年底的 2,570 萬股。

Turning to our outlook, we have guided to another very strong year in 2025 with total revenue in the range of $660 to $760 million adjusted EBITA of $400 to $495 million. And non-GAAP diluted earnings per share of $9.69 cents to $12.92 cents.

談到我們的展望，我們預計 2025 年將再次表現強勁，總營收將在 6.6 億至 7.6 億美元之間，調整後的 EBITA 將在 4 億至 4.95 億美元之間。非公認會計準則每股攤薄收益為 9.69 美分至 12.92 美分。

In addition, we expect to improve upon the strong free cash flow. We delivered in 2024 as we anticipate the resolution of an outstanding arbitration and continued success from our licensing efforts will drive double digit growth in free cash flow for 2025. With that as a backdrop, our board of directors approved a 33% increase in our dividend from $0.45 cents to $0.60 cents per share.

此外，我們預計強勁的自由現金流將會改善。我們在 2024 年實現了目標，因為我們預計未決仲裁的解決方案以及我們許可努力的持續成功將推動 2025 年自由現金流實現兩位數增長。在此背景下，我們的董事會批准將股息從每股 0.45 美分增加 33% 至 0.60 美分。

As a reminder, we begin the year with $230 million remaining on our buyback authorization between the increased dividend and our commitment to continued share buybacks. We expect to have another strong year of returning capital to shareholders in 2025.

提醒一下，今年年初，我們在增加股息和繼續回購股票承諾之間剩餘 2.3 億美元的回購授權。我們預計 2025 年將再次為股東帶來強勁的資本回報。

You will see in our financial metrics that we have also begun to present annualized recurring revenue. This metric simply analyzes the recurring revenue for a given quarter. For example, in Q4, We had $117 million of recurring revenue. So, multiply that by four and you get $468 million of ARR, which is by far a record level over the last four years, we have increased our ARR at a double-digit growth rate from $314 million at the start of 2021. to $468 million at the end of 2024.

您將在我們的財務指標中看到，我們也已經開始呈現年度經常性收入。此指標只是分析特定季度的經常性收入。例如，在第四季度，我們的經常性收入為 1.17 億美元。因此，將其乘以四，您將得到 4.68 億美元的 ARR，這是過去四年來的最高紀錄，我們的 ARR 以兩位數的增長率從 2021 年初的 3.14 億美元增加到 2024 年底的 4.68 億美元。

As we begin 2025, we do have a small step down due to 2024-year end expirations. But we expect to drive renewals and agreements this year to close 2025 with double digit growth in ARR from the $468 million level at which we concluded 2024.

當我們開始 2025 年時，由於 2024 年底到期，我們確實會略有下降。但我們預計今年的續約和協議將推動 2025 年底的 ARR 實現兩位數成長，而 2024 年底的 ARR 水準為 4.68 億美元。

Before I turn it back to Raiford, I want to reiterate that our quarterly guidance for Q1'25 does not include the impact of any new agreements or arbitration results we may sign or receive over the balance of the first quarter.

在我將主題轉回給 Raiford 之前，我想重申，我們對 25 年第一季的季度指導不包括我們在第一季餘額中可能簽署或收到的任何新協議或仲裁結果的影響。

This is because it is harder to predict the timing of new agreements in short windows. In contrast, our full year guidance includes contributions from both new agreements and arbitration results.

這是因為在短時間內很難預測新協議的達成協議。相較之下，我們的全年指引包括新協議和仲裁結果的貢獻。

As was the case last year, we believe we can achieve the financial results within our full year guided range. Through different combinations of new agreements and arbitration results with that. I'll turn it back to Raiford.

與去年一樣，我們相信我們能夠實現全年指導範圍內的財務表現。透過新的協議和仲裁結果的不同組合。我會將其交還給 Raiford。

Thanks Rich. Before we move to Q&A, I'd like to mention that we'll be attending a number of investor events in Q1, including the Roth Conference in Dana Point, California and the Sidoti conference, which is virtual. Please reach out to your representatives at those firms. If you'd like to schedule a meeting, Michelle, we are now ready to take questions.

謝謝，Rich。在我們進入問答環節之前，我想提一下，我們將在第一季參加一些投資者活動，包括加州達納角的羅斯會議和虛擬的西多蒂會議。請聯絡這些公司的代表。如果您想安排一次會議，米歇爾，我們現在可以回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Our first question is going to come from the line of Scott Searle, ROTH Capital Partners Your line is open. Please go ahead.

我們的第一個問題來自羅仕證券的斯科特·塞爾 (Scott Searle)，您的熱線已經開通。請繼續。

Hey, good morning. Congrats on the quarter guys. Thanks for taking my questions.

嘿，早安。恭喜大家本季取得的成績。感謝您回答我的問題。

We're in maybe just to dive in on the on the Disney front. I'm wondering if you could put some parameters around the timing of when you would expect this to progress and kind of the milestones there. Also, if you could address your engagement with other video streaming vendors and opportunities, as they're ongoing within 2025 like kind of the level of engagement that you're seeing.

我們可能只是想深入了解迪士尼方面。我想知道您是否可以針對預計進展的時間和里程碑設定一些參數。此外，如果您可以談論與其他視訊串流供應商和機會的合作，因為它們在 2025 年內將繼續進行，就像您所看到的參與程度一樣。

Yeah, Hi, good morning, Scott. Thanks for the question. So, regarding Disney, it's public now in our legal findings, we have engaged Disney for more than 2.5 years in bilateral negotiation. And as you know, we prefer to sign most of our deals through amicable discussions and, but we have concluded after spending, 2.5 years negotiating that enforcement is needed for this particular case.

是的，嗨，早上好，史考特。謝謝你的提問。關於迪士尼，我們的法律調查結果現在已經公開，我們與迪士尼進行了兩年半多的雙邊談判。如你所知，我們希望透過友好協商簽署大部分協議，但經過兩年半的談判，我們得出結論，這一特定案件需要強制執行。

And as you probably know in our enforcement, when we started filing the case, we are fully committed to leading it through the course of the lawsuits. But as in any other cases, also, we are always open for negotiation during the lawsuit.

正如你們可能知道的，在我們的執法過程中，當我們開始提起訴訟時，我們全力以赴地引導案件順利進行。但與其他案件一樣，我們在訴訟期間也始終願意進行談判。

So it's, difficult for me to predict precisely how long the lawsuits may last. As you probably know, from our smartphone experience, sometimes it can be, fairly quickly resolved and sometimes it takes multiple years to resolve. So as of this case, as of now, I we do not really know for sure how long this case will take.

因此，我很難準確預測訴訟會持續多久。您可能知道，從我們的智慧型手機經驗來看，有時這個問題可以相當快地解決，有時則需要數年時間才能解決。因此，就此案而言，截至目前，我們還不確定該案需要多長時間。

So regarding engagement with other licensed with other streaming service providers. As we have discussed before in our Investor day, we have engaged with almost all the major players and we are patient in dimension our value to them and we hope to make progress as always through bilateral negotiation.

因此關於與其他獲得許可的串流媒體服務提供者的合作。正如我們之前在投資者日討論過的，我們已經與幾乎所有主要參與者進行了接觸，我們耐心地衡量我們對他們的價值，我們希望透過雙邊談判一如既往地取得進展。

Okay. Thanks. That's very helpful. Maybe, shifting to the annual guidance I know, this is a very difficult one to pin down. But could, you provide some color in terms of the range of outcomes, how you're thinking about it in terms of catch-up sales versus how we would be exiting the year from a recurring revenue standpoint? I know that they're probably multiple different ways to get there. But if you could kind of help us frame it a little bit.

好的。謝謝。這非常有幫助。也許，轉向我所知道的年度指導，這是一個很難確定的問題。但是，您能否就結果範圍提供一些說明，您是如何考慮追趕銷售的，以及我們如何從經常性收入的角度結束這一年？我知道可能有多種不同的方法可以到達那裡。但如果你可以幫助我們稍微構思一下的話。

And as part of that, rich is we're looking to the first quarter and that recurring revenue guidance, I think it's 112 to 116. I know there's some expirations this year. I think in the K you talk about seven agreements for a total of $91 or $92 million. How much of that is layering into the first quarter? Recurring guidance?

作為其中的一部分，我們期待第一季的經常性收入預期，我認為是 112 到 116。我知道今年有一些到期日。我認為在 K 中您談到了七項協議，總額為 9,100 萬或 9,200 萬美元。其中有多少是第一季產生的？反覆指導？

Yeah, he's got, let me take on the majority of the open opportunities and then I'll have reached adding on the details for the recuring numbers. So if you look at our 2025 major opportunity here, there's, we have three major programs on the smartphone side with our momentum for signing Oppo and Frankie ZTE and others.

是的，他有，讓我承擔大部分開放的機會，然後我會添加重複數字的細節。因此，如果你看看我們 2025 年的主要機遇，你會發現，我們在智慧型手機方面有三個主要項目，我們的勢頭是簽約 Oppo、Frankie ZTE 等公司。

We really only have less than handful major opportunities we need to sign, I am the largest one is we will, as you are aware, then we need to essentially resolve honor and I probably transcend, not necessarily in that order, by the way, we are engaging with all of them in parallel on the consumer electronic IOT side. We have built a lot of momentum as rich has covered in his section, we see tremendous amount of groups in multiple verticals.

我們實際上只需要簽署不到幾個重要的機會，其中最大的一個是，正如你所知，然後我們需要從本質上解決榮譽問題，我可能會超越，不一定按這個順序，順便說一下，我們正在消費電子物聯網方面同時與所有這些公司合作。我們已經建立了很大的發展勢頭，正如 Rich 在其章節中提到的那樣，我們看到了多個垂直領域的大量團體。

But our priority number one is to frankly signing, some of the larger TV makers as well as making progress in, different segments of vertical for our team for the service industry as we already touched on here, we actually do not take back any, material revenue for 2025. That's important for us to engaging the major players and build a multiyear negotiating progress. And obviously we already touched on the enforcement with Disney.

但我們的首要任務是坦率地簽約一些大型電視製造商，並在我們團隊的服務業不同垂直領域取得進展，正如我們已經提到的，我們實際上不會收回 2025 年的任何實質收入。這對我們與主要參與者接觸並取得多年的談判進展至關重要。顯然，我們已經討論過與迪士尼的執法問題。

Yeah, and Scott, I'll just add to that, that in my comments, I noted that we ended 2024 with $468 million of ARR. And you know, we're looking to through new renewals and new agreements drive double digit growth in that ARR number by the end of 2025.

是的，斯科特，我只想補充一點，在我的評論中，我指出我們在 2024 年底的 ARR 為 4.68 億美元。你知道，我們希望透過新的續約和新的協議，到 2025 年底推動 ARR 數字實現兩位數成長。

As to Q1, you noted correctly that the end of over the course of '25. And, and I'll say typically agreements are calendar year based, not always, but typically, that we have $91 million of expirations in '25 again, typically at the end of the year.

至於問題 1，您正確地指出了 25 年歷程的結束。而且，我想說的是，通常協議都是基於日曆年，雖然並非總是如此，但通常情況下，我們在 25 年又有 9100 萬美元的到期合同，通常是在年底。

So that's really not an impact in the couple million dollar difference between recurring revenue and Q4 stepping down to Q1, that's really driven by 24 expirations. I think we noted we had 524 expirations totalling $17 million which that math kind of shows you that's the majority of that step down.

因此，這實際上不會對經常性收入和第四季度降至第一季之間的幾百萬美元差異造成影響，這實際上是由 24 次到期造成的。我想我們注意到我們有 524 個到期合約，總額為 1700 萬美元，從數學上可以看出這是這次下跌的大部分。

Great, very helpful. And lastly, if I could just on the capital structure and the convert. Rich, could you take us through what you're factoring in, for the first quarter and how that will progress in terms of interest expense, the fully diluted share impact and, also how you're thinking about the capital structure in general, I think, when you first initiated a convert years ago, it was to be able to have a robust balance sheet to be able to litigate against potential customers like Disney.

非常好，非常有幫助。最後，如果我可以談談資本結構和轉換。Rich，您能否向我們介紹第一季度您考慮的因素，以及利息支出、完全稀釋的股票影響等方面的進展情況，以及您對總體資本結構的看法，我認為，當您幾年前首次發起轉換時，是為了能夠擁有穩健的資產負債表，以便能夠與迪士尼等潛在客戶提起訴訟。

Now, given that you've got $500 million of net cash, is, is that a mechanism and an instrument that you guys need to have in the future going forward? Thanks.

現在，假設你們有 5 億美元的淨現金，這是你們未來需要的機制和工具嗎？謝謝。

Sure. So let me take the first part of that question and I'll get to the kind of structure as we see it going forward in the first quarter. When we, we're, in any quarter, factoring in interest, income and interest expense. And we're not really looking at that much differently than, we have in recent quarters.

當然。因此，讓我來回答該問題的第一部分，然後我會講到我們在第一季看到的結構。當我們在任何一個季度考慮利息、收入和利息支出時。我們實際上對這一問題的看法與最近幾季相比並沒有太大不同。

We also, as you allude to need to factor in any potential dilution from the convert or the related hedge there that becomes a function of the stock price. Typically, we're, looking at what the stock price is around the time that we post that guidance. And, and I know you're aware of this but for everybody's benefit in our 10-K as in our Ques in the footnotes to our financial statements, we have a sensitivity table that shows how that dilution is impacted at different prices.

正如您所提到的，我們還需要考慮轉換或相關對沖帶來的任何潛在稀釋，這些稀釋將成為股票價格的函數。通常，我們會關注發布該指引時的股票價格。而且，我知道您已經意識到了這一點，但為了讓每個人的利益著想，在我們的 10-K 中，就像在我們財務報表腳註中的問題中一樣，我們有一個敏感度表，顯示了這種稀釋在不同價格下受到的影響。

Again, there's greater dilution the convert itself which we reduce through the hedge and on the far right column, you'll see the net dilution from the, warrants that we issue as for the cap structure in general. Yeah, we've for, more than 10 years have been us utilizing converts to help both through the balance sheet that enables us to you know, go to with larger customers when necessary.

再一次，轉換本身的稀釋度更大，我們透過對沖來減少這種稀釋度，在最右邊的一欄中，您會看到我們發行的認股權證的淨稀釋度，就一般的上限結構而言。是的，十多年來，我們一直在利用轉換器來幫助雙方通過資產負債表，以便在必要時與更大的客戶提供服務。

If they, if we need to enforce our rights while being able to you know, buy back stock and return capital to shareholders. Because we're just in a much different position than, than even when we did the last convert in the spring of 22. I think we have more options available to us going forward. Not to say we you know, may make any predictions on what we'll do there. I'm just saying that we enjoy having more optionality in how we look at our cap structure.

如果他們，如果我們需要執行我們的權利，同時能夠回購股票並向股東返還資本。因為與 22 年春天進行最後一次皈依時相比，我們現在所處的位置已經大不相同了。我認為我們今後會有更多的選擇。更不用說我們可能會對我們會在那裡做什麼做出任何預測。我只是說，我們喜歡在看待上限結構時擁有更多的選擇權。

Great. Thanks so much. I'll get back in queue.

偉大的。非常感謝。我會重新排隊。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Thank you. And one moment, as we move on to our next question, comes from the line of Arjun Bhatia with William Blair & Company. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

謝謝。接下來，我們進入下一個問題，來自 William Blair & Company 的 Arjun Bhatia 先生的提問。您的線路已開通。請繼續。

Perfect. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you taking the question here. Maybe I want to start first on the streaming opportunity. It's good to see that, there is a kind of litigation and we're, somewhat far down the monetization path of your video technology.

完美的。謝謝你們。感謝您在此回答這個問題。也許我想先從串流媒體機會開始。很高興看到存在某種訴訟，而且我們在視訊技術貨幣化的道路上已經走了很遠。

Liren one question I have on this is, for smartphones, I think we all kind of understand how the economics work, right? You know, it's, largely based on kind of units of smartphones sold with the, with the royalty rate. When we're looking at the streaming opportunity, how should we think about kind of the underlying metric that we should get grounded in for, some sort of a royalty rate with Disney.

我對此有一個疑問，對於智慧型手機來說，我想我們都了解經濟學是如何運作的，對嗎？您知道，這主要取決於智慧型手機的銷售和版稅率。當我們考慮串流媒體機會時，我們應該如何考慮應該基於的底層指標，即迪士尼的某種版稅率。

For example, right? You mentioned $25 billion in streaming revenue, and I think 250 million subscribers, is it more on the per minute stream? Is it the number of subscribers? Is it a revenue rate? How are you thinking you might monetize this this opportunity here.

比如說吧？您提到串流媒體收入為 250 億美元，我認為有 2.5 億訂閱用戶，這是否更多地取決於每分鐘的串流媒體收入？是訂閱者的數量嗎？這是收益率嗎？您認為怎麼才能利用這個機會賺錢呢？

Hey Arjun, good morning. Thank you for your question. So, on the streaming side here, we are actually flexible in negotiating with our customers based on, what is the right matrix to use? If you look at fundamentally, we bring a set of very important technology that we believe underpin their services. That's both in driving the revenue forward as well as saving cost on the operating side, internal storage power, as well as cooling and internet services here.

嘿，阿瓊，早安。感謝您的提問。因此，在串流媒體方面，我們實際上可以靈活地與客戶進行談判，基於使用什麼正確的矩陣？如果從根本上看，我們帶來了一套非常重要的技術，我們相信這些技術支撐了他們的服務。這既可以增加收入，又可以節省營運成本、內部儲存能力以及冷卻和互聯網服務。

So, and by the way, various different streaming services may have different business model. Some of them are subscription based, some of them may be advertisement sponsor based. So, when we do approach them fundamentally, we try to charge for a very small but fair price for what we bring to the table that enable their services.

順便說一句，不同的串流媒體服務可能有不同的商業模式。其中一些是基於訂閱的，一些可能是基於廣告贊助商的。因此，當我們從根本上與他們接觸時，我們會嘗試以非常小但公平的價格來滿足他們所提供的服務。

So, that can be subscription based where you know, we will get a small percentage of the, monthly subscription fee times the amount of subscribers, all that can be a fairly small percentage of the overall revenue. We are actually open for both arrangement regarding the overall cyber market. And as we have discussed in our investor day and we project based on third party data that by 2027 the streaming industry overall will be the same size of the smartphone industry.

所以，這可以基於訂閱，你知道，我們將獲得每月訂閱費乘以訂閱者數量的一小部分，這些只是總收入中相當小的一部分。我們實際上對涉及整個網路市場的這兩項安排都持開放態度。正如我們在投資者日所討論的那樣，根據第三方數據，我們預測到 2027 年，串流媒體行業整體規模將與智慧型手機行業相同。

And as you are aware on the smartphone side, which as you commented on, we have demonstrated a lot of progress. And frankly, we have shown a lot of solid results in that industry. We are projecting getting about $500 million in recurrent revenue from the smartphone.

如您所知，在智慧型手機方面，我們已經取得了很大進展。坦白說，我們在該行業已經取得了許多堅實的成果。我們預計將從智慧型手機中獲得約 5 億美元的經常性收入。

But for the streaming services, even though we believe our technology is just as important to them because it might be new because we believe we have to demonstrate our patients. And so therefore, we are in my opinion, concert setting, the target to be about $300 million by 2030 for that market to mature for us over time.

但對於串流媒體服務，儘管我們相信我們的技術對他們同樣重要，因為它可能是新的，但我們相信我們必須向我們的患者展示。因此，我認為，我們為音樂會設定的目標是到 2030 年將市場規模達到 3 億美元左右，以便隨著時間的推移，該市場能夠逐漸成熟。

Okay. I'm so very helpful. Thanks Liren. I wonder if I can follow up just on the recurring revenue outlook for 2025. It sounds like you're baking in some incremental Upsell and maybe arbitration agreements with some of these agreements in particular, do you have kind of a sense of the range of uplift that you're expecting from, Samsung, which I think should be coming relatively soon? Like how should we benchmark the potential uplift that you could see there? You know if that's announced in Q1 or Q2 here?

好的。我非常樂於助人。謝謝Liren。我想知道我是否可以跟進 2025 年的經常性收入前景。聽起來你正在醞釀一些增量式追加銷售，或許還有仲裁協議，特別是其中的一些協議，你是否對三星所期望的提升範圍有什麼感覺？例如，我們應該如何衡量您所看到的潛在提升？您知道這是在第一季還是第二季宣布的嗎？

Yeah. Hey, Arjun, this is Liren. So, I'll cover it first if there's anything else which might be able to chime in. So, on the recurring revenue side, which commented, we will target to grow our recurring revenue in 2025 by at least double digit growth.

是的。嘿，Arjun，我是Liren。因此，如果還有其他內容可以補充的話，我會先介紹一下。因此，在經常性收入方面，我們的目標是到 2025 年將經常性收入成長至少兩位數。

But that's also not based on any single deal or any single outcome. So, we have a number of opportunity we are pursuing. And by the way, a number of those opportunity carry both recurring revenues as well as cash up payment. So, we really look at all the opportunity holistically and we frankly estimate an outcome for per case as well as the likelihood that they will be done this year. So, this is the same process we took last year. So that's why we frankly add them up into a range of outcomes here.

但這也不基於任何單一交易或任何單一結果。因此，我們有很多機會正在尋求。順便說一句，許多這樣的機會既能帶來經常性收入，也能帶來現金支付。因此，我們確實全面地審視所有機會，並坦率地估計每個案件的結果以及它們今年完成的可能性。與我們去年採取的流程相同。這就是為什麼我們在這裡坦率地將它們添加到一系列結果中。

Regarding the Samsung arbitration outcome. As I commented on earlier, we have spent substantial amount of effort to go through the process already as a match. The last hearing happened last October already. And at that time, the arbitrator told us they will take time to essentially make their decision, writing their conclusion and due to the holiday season in between.

關於三星仲裁結果。正如我之前評論的那樣，我們已經花費了大量的努力來完成這個過程。上一次聽證會已於去年十月舉行。當時，仲裁員告訴我們，他們需要時間來做決定、寫出結論，因為中間還處於假期。

So, basically, they told us that it will be after New Year. So, we are waiting for the outcome and as I commented earlier here, that can be soon, but we don't really know precisely what time regarding the outcome of the range. We comment before in our prior calls, we believe strongly that the value of portfolio has gone up substantially due to the last contract.

所以，基本上，他們告訴我們這將是新年之後。因此，我們正在等待結果，正如我之前在這裡評論的那樣，結果可能很快就會出來，但我們確實不知道具體時間。我們在先前的電話會議中曾評論過，我們堅信由於上一份合同，投資組合的價值已經大幅上升。

And if you look at the most closest you know, comparable, we believe we should realize the uplifting of the value. But this is for the arbitrator to decide, and we are currently just waiting for the result.

如果你看一下最接近的、可比較的，我們相信我們應該意識到價值的提升。但這需由仲裁人來決定，我們目前只是在等待結果。

All right, wonderful. Thank you.

好的，太棒了。謝謝。

Thank you. And one moment as we move on to our next question, our next question is going to come from the line of Taliani with Bank of America. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

謝謝。我們稍後再討論下一個問題，下一個問題來自美國銀行的塔利亞尼。您的線路已開通。請繼續。

Tell your line might be on mute.

告訴你你的線路可能處於靜音狀態。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

We can now, sir?

先生，現在我們可以了嗎？

Oh, perfect. Thanks. Once again, you're bidding the numbers by significant amount. And I don't think you ever reported a number that is even remotely close to your guidance. It's, so hard to predict the numbers. So, I want to focus on the recurring part and I have two questions on the recurring. You said that ARR should grow double digits is, are the trends in revenues different than ARR? Meaning is there any deviation between revenue growth and AR R growth? And what could be the reasons for that?

哦，完美。謝謝。再次，您以相當大的金額出價。而且我認為您報告的數字從未接近您的指導數字。這些數字真的很難預測。因此，我想專注於重複部分，並且我對重複部分有兩個問題。您說 ARR 應該會成長兩位數，那麼營收趨勢與 ARR 不同嗎？意思是收入成長和應收帳款成長有偏差嗎？那麼，造成這種情況的原因是什麼呢？

And the second question is you noted $70 million that are that expired in 2024 and, $91 million are expected to expire in 2025. What is, what is, what happens with these expirations? Are they renewed before renewed after? How does it go with these expirations of recurring revenues? Thanks.

第二個問題是，您指出有 7,000 萬美元將於 2024 年到期，還有 9,100 萬美元預計將於 2025 年到期。這些到期後會發生什麼事？他們之前更新過嗎？這些經常性收入的到期情況如何？謝謝。

Okay. Hey, thanks, Tal Liani. This is Rich. Let, let me start with the first question, I think maybe Liren will have a comment for the second question, and I may have an additional point to make there. So, yeah, when we, I guess the first point to emphasize when we issue quarterly guidance and I mentioned this in my prepared remarks again today.

好的。嘿，謝謝，Tal Liani。這是里奇。讓我先回答第一個問題，我想也許李仁會對第二個問題有一些評論，而我可能還會提出一些補充意見。所以，是的，我想當我們發布季度指引時要強調的第一點，我在今天的準備好的發言中再次提到了這一點。

It's difficult for us over a short window to determine what the time period when exactly a new agreement will cross the line. Our customers are already using our technology. So, it's not like we know that they need to make a decision to so they can, produce their product and, and ship it on a certain deadline, they're already using it. And it's really then a function of when can we reach an agreement to them on the fair amount that they should pay us.

我們很難在短時間內確定新協議的具體達成時間。我們的客戶已經在使用我們的技術。所以，我們並不知道他們需要做出決定，以便他們能夠生產他們的產品並在一定期限內發貨，他們已經在使用它了。這實際上取決於我們何時才能與他們就他們應支付給我們的公平金額達成協議。

So, as a consequence on our quarterly guidance, typically are not including the potential for new agreements. And they are for you typically on a quarterly basis if we sign a new agreement will come in higher for the full year guidance. We did initiate for the first time, full year guidance last year in 2024.

因此，我們的季度指引通常不包括達成新協議的可能性。通常情況下，我們會按季度向您提供這些內容，如果我們簽署新的協議，全年指導金額將會更高。我們去年確實首次提出了 2024 年全年指引。

We thought that we came out with a, a very strong number for 2024 in full year guidance. But frankly, we just had, as we discussed on the call here, an outstanding year and we're able to, you know, raise it, and then beat that. So we're thrilled about the performance we delivered in '24 and we're, very happy to, to feel confident we can come out with strong numbers again for '25.

我們認為，我們為 2024 年全年預測得出了一個非常強勁的數字。但坦白說，正如我們在電話會議上討論的那樣，我們度過了出色的一年，而且我們能夠提高業績，然後超越這一目標。因此，我們對 24 年取得的成績感到非常興奮，我們非常高興，有信心在 25 年再次取得強勁的成績。

So, hopefully that helps as far as recurring revenue versus total. Looking back, I mentioned on my call over the last four years, we've had a double digit CAGR in total revenue, because we have been signing new agreements and been getting catch up sales along with it. Importantly, we've also had a double digit CAGR over that time period in ARR and, I like ARR where we added it to our metrics.

因此，希望這對經常性收入與總收入有所幫助。回顧過去，我曾在過去四年的電話會議上提到，我們的總收入實現了兩位數的複合年增長率，因為我們不斷簽署新協議，同時不斷追趕銷售額。重要的是，在這段時間內，我們的 ARR 也實現了兩位數的複合年增長率，我喜歡 ARR，所以我們將其添加到了我們的指標中。

One problem with recurring, we signed OVO in the fourth quarter of 2024 and it contribute one quarter of recurring revenue even though there's catch up sales associated with it. So, I think if you look at 2024 recurring revenue, it's not factoring that in if you look at the ARR where we close, 2024 at $468 million. That's kind of a better measure in my mind of kind of the, you know what we're earning on a recurring basis. So, I'll let me start with a response to the second comment.

經常性收入的一個問題是，我們在 2024 年第四季簽署了 OVO，儘管與之相關的追趕銷售也帶來了四分之一的經常性收入。因此，我認為，如果您查看 2024 年的經常性收入，則不會將這一點考慮在內，如果您查看我們截止 2024 年的 ARR，即 4.68 億美元。在我看來，這是一種更好的衡量標準，你知道我們在定期基礎上賺了多少錢。因此，我先來回覆第二條評論。

Yeah. Hey Tal, Good morning. Thank you for joining us here. So, on the recurring versus, sometimes we have expiration for contract here. I mean, number one, it's absolutely normal to have certain amount of contract expires each year. And frankly, because we have signed so many agreement, right. We have signed 14 agreement this year.

是的。嘿，塔爾，早安。感謝您加入我們。因此，就循環合約而言，有時我們的合約會到期。我的意思是，第一，每年有一定數量的合約到期是絕對正常的。坦白說，因為我們已經簽署了很多協議，對吧。今年我們已經簽署了14項協議。

Our average contract length is, roughly around five years, sometimes it's longer, sometimes it will be shorter. So, on any given year, we will have a few contracts expire. So, for last year to this year, we have $17 million expiration. That's 17. So, it's actually a relatively small number from last year to this year. So, we, our goal H1stly is always try to get them renewed before they expire.

我們的平均合約期限約為五年，有時會更長，有時會更短。因此，在任何一年，我們都會有一些合約到期。因此，從去年到今年，我們有 1700 萬美元的到期金額。那是 17。因此，與去年相比，今年的數字實際上相對較小。因此，我們的目標 H1stly 始終是嘗試在它們到期之前進行續訂。

And sometimes, those expiration can frankly for end of the year, which happened to be a holiday time, that's difficult for various different reasons to get them done in time. So, it can be frankly pulled over to the next year for this year, for 2025 at the end of this year. I want to make sure, you guys are aware, we do disclosing our, I think 10-K filing, we have about [$7] & $91 million expiration primary driven by our Xiaomi contract that's out for renewal at end of this year.

有時，這些到期日可能是在年底，而那時恰逢假期，由於各種原因，很難及時完成。因此，坦白說，今年可以拖到明年，今年底可以拖到 2025 年。我想確保你們都知道，我們確實披露了我們的 10-K 文件，我們有大約 [$7] 和 9100 萬美元的到期合同，主要原因是我們與小米的合同將於今年年底續簽。

So, I won't be able to comment on specific negotiations because they are covered by, NDA's. But what we typically do, TAO is for major agreement, we start roughly, six months to a year ahead of time. We demonstrate the value of our technology, show them the goods for the portfolio as well as demonstrate them how they have benefited more. You know, this time compared to the time of the last contract.

所以，我無法對具體談判發表評論，因為它們受到保密協議的約束。但我們通常的做法是，TAO 是為了達成重大協議，我們大約提前六個月到一年開始。我們展示了我們技術的價值，向他們展示了產品組合的產品並向他們展示了他們如何受益更多。你知道，這次與上次簽約的時間相比。

And then when it's appropriate, which we have demonstrated through multiple contracts here, we'll try to get a higher value in the renewal if they have benefited more. So, that's the general practice to and, and we have demonstrated in the last, four or five years, we had a good track record of renewing a large contract, including, the largest contract for Apple before the expires. And that's what we always target to do.

然後，當情況合適時，正如我們已經通過多個合約所證明的那樣，如果他們受益更多，我們會嘗試在續約中獲得更高的價值。這是普遍的做法，而且，在過去四五年中，我們已經證明，我們在續簽大合約方面有著良好的記錄，包括在合約到期前與蘋果簽訂的最大合約。這也正是我們一直以來的目標。

So when you give the guidance for the year this year, do you assume that the $17 million that expired last year would be renewed this year? Do you, assume renewal of the, of the expired ones or is it excluded also from the numbers?

那麼，當您給出今年的年度指導時，您是否認為去年到期的 1700 萬美元將在今年續簽？您是否認為會更新已過期的，或者也將其排除在數字之外？

So part, the way we do new year forecast is we actually look at all the open opportunities including online customers as well as renewals. By the way, we are not trying to, target for replacing dollar for dollars. We are trying to renew the customer one by one when they come up to.

因此，我們進行新年預測的方式實際上是查看所有開放的機會，包括線上客戶以及續約。順便說一句，我們並不是想以美元取代美元。當客戶到來時，我們會嘗試逐一進行續約。

And as you are aware how some of the customer getting market share over the years, some of them may lose market share. Some of them may have a high, mix of Five G devices, they may have gone up in terms of, every selling prices, we factor in all those parameters. So, therefore, we are not trying to replace every dollar from every customer, but we are trying to renew them.

正如您所知，一些客戶多年來獲得了市場份額，而一些客戶則可能失去市場份額。其中一些可能有高混合的 5G 設備，它們的每個銷售價格可能都會上漲，我們會考慮所有這些參數。因此，我們並不是試圖取代每個客戶的每一美元，而是試圖更新它們。

And frankly, when they benefit more, we try to get a higher valuation out of that new contract. That's normally how it works. So, for this year, when we give the guidance talk, as I mentioned earlier, we try to look at all the opening opportunities and try to obviously drive them to closure as much as we can. But we also know some of those agreement takes longer to renew than others.

坦白說，當他們受益更多時，我們會嘗試從新合約中獲得更高的估值。通常它就是這樣運作的。因此，正如我之前提到的，就今年而言，當我們進行指導談話時，我們會嘗試尋找所有的開放機會，並盡可能地推動它們結束。但我們也知道，其中一些協議的續約時間比其他協議更長。

And some of the first-time customers, frankly try to solve their past sales can be a difficult and complex negotiation. So, internally we assign a certain amount of probability and certain amount of range of outcome for each of the cases. And then in total, we give ourselves what we call internally multipass to get to the result by targeting a range.

和一些初次合作的客戶坦誠地嘗試解決他們過去的銷售問題，這可能是一個困難而複雜的談判。因此，我們內部為每種情況分配一定數量的機率和一定數量的結果範圍。然後總的來說，我們透過所謂的內部多通道，透過瞄準一個範圍來獲得結果。

Yeah. Okay, one last question, Geopolitics, a lot of your customers are coming from China, all the situation, all the geopolitical tension between China and the US, do you expect it to have an impact on your contract elongate them or, any other type of impact.

是的。好的，最後一個問題，地緣政治，你們的許多客戶都來自中國，所有的情況，中國和美國之間的地緣政治緊張局勢，你預計這會對你的合約產生影響，延長合約期限，或產生任何其他類型的影響嗎？

Yeah. Hey, Tal, that's a great question. So, as we all know, geopolitics is always, in the macro environment we consider but there's several things to keep in mind. Number one, our technology is global, our technology is built in the open standard that is frankly developed by, industry associations.

是的。嘿，塔爾，這個問題問得真好。眾所周知，地緣政治始終是我們考慮的宏觀環境中的重要因素，但有幾點需要牢記。首先，我們的技術是全球性的，我們的技術建立在由產業協會開發的開放標準之上。

So, that technology itself is open, it's not subject to any expert license control and frankly, no, not a single government including US or Chinese government really own that standard. So that's always open. That's a starting point. The second one is really most of the open opportunity we are trying to pursue are from large customers who have international business, right? Their sales are driven by many different things.

因此，該技術本身是開放的，不受任何專家許可控制，坦白說，沒有一個政府（包括美國或中國政府）真正擁有該標準。因此這始終是開放的。這是一個起點。第二個是，我們試圖尋求的大多數開放機會實際上都來自擁有國際業務的大客戶，對嗎？他們的銷售受到許多不同因素的推動。

And frankly, if you look at smartphone industry in particular, those large customers always value domestic industry as well as you know, foreign market and they want it to be big and good. So, that's a healthy dynamic for us. The third one, which is really important for me is I spend some substantial amount of time in frankly DC and Brussels and other capital including Beijing and other places here informing policymakers why our business model is poor competition.

坦白說，如果你特別關注智慧型手機產業，那些大客戶總是重視國內產業以及國外市場，他們希望它做得大、做得好。所以，這對我們來說是一個健康的動態。第三個對我來說非常重要的一點是，我花了大量時間在華盛頓、布魯塞爾和其他首都，包括北京和其他地方，向政策制定者說明為什麼我們的商業模式缺乏競爭力。

Why our business model is good for them? It's good for their country. It's good for the consumers. It's good for the vendors who are benefiting tremendously from our fundamental innovation. That's what enabled this vendor to come in play, leveraging what we have developed a and becoming global competitor radically fast. So, and frankly, we have done a good job explaining our business model. And I'll tell you tell that our, support cross, different countries actually quite strong.

為什麼我們的商業模式對他們有利？這對他們的國家有好處。這對消費者來說是好事。這對那些從我們的基礎創新中受益匪淺的供應商來說是件好事。這使得該供應商能夠發揮作用，利用我們已經開發的優勢，迅速成為全球競爭對手。所以，坦白說，我們很好地解釋了我們的商業模式。我要告訴你們，我們對不同國家之間的支持其實相當強勁。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Anja Soderstrom with Sidoti, your line is open. Please go ahead.

謝謝。我們的下一個問題來自 Sidoti 的 Anja Soderstrom，您的線路是開放的。請繼續。

Hi and thank you for taking my questions. Actually, most of them have been directed already. And congrats on the great performance here. When we went into 2024 you gave the guidance or 2000. Yeah, you gave the guidance for the year and then it seemed like you gave a guidance that was a little bit modest to, going into the year, which is makes sense. But are you doing the same approach this year? You think or?

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。事實上，大多數都已經被導演了。恭喜您在這裡的精彩表現。當我們進入 2024 年時，您給了 2000 年的指導。是的，您給出了今年的指導，然後看起來您給出的指導對於今年來說有點謙虛，這是有道理的。但今年您還採用同樣的方法嗎？您認為還是？

So I know, let me take the broader question here. I'll ask Rich to time in if need to be. So, as I explained earlier, right? So, we try to take a whole view of all the open opportunities and each opportunity we essentially associate the likelihood of, completion in the year. As well as a range of possible evaluations.

所以我知道，讓我在這裡回答這個更廣泛的問題。如果需要的話我會請 Rich 來計時。所以，正如我之前解釋的那樣，對嗎？因此，我們嘗試全面審視所有開放的機會，並從本質上將每個機會與當年完成的可能性聯繫起來。以及一系列可能的評估。

And if it's a renewal, we sign obviously certain amount, recurring revenue, if it's brand new signed customers here, we also have to estimate how much catch-up payment we can get from that deal. And frankly the timing and the dollar amount are hard to pin down with a long lead time. Right. But but we obviously wanted to give enough into it.

如果是續約，我們顯然會簽署一定金額的經常性收入，如果是全新的簽約客戶，我們還必須估算從這筆交易中能獲得多少補足付款。坦白說，由於準備時間很長，很難確定時間和金額。正確的。但我們顯然想付出足夠的努力。

So, our process generally is beginning of the year we do the best we can to come up the range and then, but larger deals happen throughout the year as we have demonstrated last year. And if we have done, more or better or faster, we'll provide guidance accordingly to, either update it or I'll give you the latest information. That's a general approach we take. And so, I don't know if there's anything we just wanted to add.

因此，我們的流程通常是在年初盡最大努力確定範圍，然後，但更大的交易會在全年發生，正如我們去年所展示的那樣。如果我們做得更多、更好或更快，我們將提供相應的指導，要么更新它，要么給你最新的資訊。這是我們採取的普遍方法。所以，我不知道我們是否還有什麼想補充的。

No, I think that covers it. .

不，我想這就涵蓋了。。

Okay. Thank you. And then just to follow up on the geopolitical environment here with the new administration, do you feel like the sentiment has changed in any way with your counterparts or?

好的。謝謝。然後，只是為了跟進新政府的地緣政治環境，您是否覺得您的同行的情緒有所改變？

Yeah, that's a great question. And you, so if you look at the new administration for US, traditionally, as I think many of you guys are aware, Republicans are stronger in IP protection in general. And I, again, I'm not specifically commenting on, any specific person or anything.

是的，這是一個很好的問題。如果你看看美國新政府，傳統上，我想很多人都知道，共和黨在智慧財產權保護方面總體上更強。我再說一遍，我不是針對任何特定的人或事發表評論。

So, which we believe it's a generally good thing for, for IP licensing and, but we are still at the beginning of the new administration and by the way, be historic as a close working relationship with, both administrations in the last, decades or more. So we continue to build this relationship, we demonstrate to them, why our business is good for us, why our technology leadership is important to us, technology leadership as well as you know, in the future of our country.

因此，我們認為這對知識產權許可來說總體來說是一件好事，但我們仍處於新政府執政的開始階段，順便說一句，我們與兩屆政府在過去幾十年或更長時間內保持著密切的工作關係，具有歷史意義。因此，我們繼續建立這種關係，向他們展示為什麼我們的業務對我們有好處，為什麼我們的技術領導地位對我們很重要，以及你知道的，為什麼我們的技術領導地位對我們國家的未來很重要。

So, those are pretty well received and I expect strong support going forward.

因此，這些都很受歡迎，我期待未來能得到強而有力的支持。

Okay. Thank you. That was all for me.

好的。謝謝。對我來說這就是全部了。

Thank you. And I would now like to hand the conference back over to Liren for any further remarks.

謝謝。現在我想將會議交還給李仁，以便他可以發表進一步的評論。

Yeah. Hey, thank you operator. Before we close, I'd like to thank our employees for their dedication and contribution in the digital as well as many partners and licenses for a record year in 2024. I also thank you everyone who joined us today and we look forward to updating you on our progress next quarter.

是的。嘿，謝謝接線生。在結束之前，我要感謝我們的員工在數位領域的奉獻和貢獻，以及感謝眾多合作夥伴和許可證，使 2024 年創下了創紀錄的一年。我還要感謝今天加入我們的每個人，我們期待下個季度向你們通報我們的進展。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating and you may now disconnect everyone. Have a great day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開所有人的連結。祝你有美好的一天。