Idex Biometrics ASA (IDBA) 2020 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to be IDEX Biometrics' Q1 2020 Presentation. (Operator Instructions)

Today, I'm pleased to present Derek D'Antilio, CFO. Speakers, please begin.

Good morning, good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the IDEX Biometrics Conference Call for the First Quarter of 2020.

This is Derek, the CFO of IDEX Biometrics. After a short introduction, our CEO, Vince Graziani, will provide an update on our business results and the markets that we target. And then I will follow with commentary on our first quarter financial results. We will then open the call for your questions.

Before we begin, please note that certain information that you'll hear on this call may consist of forward-looking statements. Such statements are based on current information and management's expectations as of this date. Forward-looking statements involve certain risks, uncertainties and assumptions that are difficult to predict. For more information, please refer to the company's first quarter report which was published today and our Annual Report published on April 21. We have also posted an updated investor presentation to the Investor Relations section of our website.

Now I'll turn the call over to Vince.

Thanks, Derek, and welcome to everyone.

This is my first call as CEO of IDEX. As many of you know, I joined the company on February 27 of this year, just before the COVID-19 pandemic actually hit. And I would say, at the very least, it's been a very exciting ride.

And before I get into the formal discussions, I think probably appropriate for me to give a little bit of background on why I decided to join IDEX and leave my position at Infineon to join a relatively early-stage company.

When I was approached by executive recruiters to take a look, of course, I did some due diligence on my own before considering this opportunity. And what I saw at IDEX was a company that looked a lot more like a 3 year old Silicon Valley unicorn than a 10-year-old sensor company from Norway. The company, since Stan took over, totally refocused on a massive market opportunity -- we'll talk about more -- in the payment card space, and Stan refocused the company to build a very purpose-built solution for that application. And by the time I looked at the company, there was very little technology risk left in my decision. The products are already existing, they have validation from Tier 1 customers who have selected and built cards with our product, and also design wins are growing with other customers as well. So the technology risk part of that consideration was totally gone.

In terms of market risk, as I said, it's a massive market opportunity in payment cards, with an installed base of more than 22 billion cards. And the infrastructure that's in place today already supports the technology that IDEX is bringing to the market. Further validation from the market is, 2 of the major global payment networks, when I was considering joining, were just about to issue certifications for cards based on the IDEX technology, so again, giving me comfort that the market risk opportunity was also quite low.

And then the third piece was, in terms of market risk, the technology was not only designed to have great performance in the market but to enable a price point that would really have enabled market activation. In fact, cards built with IDEX technology today are only incrementally more expensive than a dual-interface card that already existed. And it's only incrementally more expensive, but it's infinitely more secure. So I basically just saw an opportunity I couldn't pass up.

So I'm happy to say that through the COVID-19 crisis, our employees and customers and partners are, for the most part, healthy and have managed to be productive through this pandemic time. In fact, I would say, at IDEX we've adapted very quickly to working at home, and if anything, we seem to be getting more productivity and more hours out of the team. I'm very proud of the way the team has reacted and how we've executed to our commitments. During my first 2 months here, I just continued to learn more about the strength of the team and their dedication.

Now I'll kind of move on to our strategy and review things. For those of you that have been familiar with IDEX for some time, our strategy really hasn't changed. Since Stan took over, we developed this complete solution, as I discussed, TrustedBio, which is purpose-built for the card space, and we'll get more into the details of that. We are happy to address other markets, but those are more on an opportunistic basis. As you could probably imagine, if we built a solution that's really optimized for the technical constraints and form factor of a payment card, there are many other applications where that same technology can apply, and we're happy to sell our technology into those markets as well. But to really be clear, we're very specifically focused on the payment card space because of the massive market opportunity.

As I mentioned earlier, there is 22 billion payment cards in circulation globally today. That market is still growing and anticipated to be 29 billion by 2024. And in terms of new cards per year, those are in the range of 5 billion new cards per year. So in terms of market opportunity, when we say massive, we're not exaggerating. This is a very, very big market opportunity that we're addressing. Our TrustedBio solution is designed to enable a contactless user experience that is convenient, hygienic and highly secure. As I said, it's the same exact user transaction experience that you get with today's contactless payment cards but it's infinitely more secure because you're authenticating your presence at the transaction with your own personal fingerprint.

Analyst forecasts for the market vary, but in general, there is a consensus that the COVID-19 pandemic is likely to only accelerate the adoption of biometric cards. In fact, just this morning -- part of my morning routine, I watch various financial channels, and while watching CNBC this morning, there was a TV ad from Walmart, and this ad was about, we at Walmart have adapted to make you safe during in the pandemic. And they talked about things they have done in the store and they flashed to the cashier station in a standard Walmart and it had a big plexiglass shield to protect the customer from the cashier and also had a big sign hanging over the payment station that said touch-free payments in big print. That was a great validation. And also, just to let you know, Walmart, the largest retailer in the globe, has the infrastructure already in place to accept the biometric payment cards since they're already accepting dual interface contactless or touch-free payment cards today.

So going on in terms of our strategy, as stated earlier, IDEX is the only company in the fingerprint sensor space to have a purpose-built solution for the payment cards. Many of our competition, in fact, all of them, were originally focused on mobile and other markets and have tried to adopt the technology into the payment card space. By being purpose-built, we've actually unshackled the company because the way all fingerprint sensors were manufactured before IDEX was basically using semiconductor technology. If you're using semiconductor technology, you really have a major constraint. Because anybody that understands anything about semiconductors or semiconductor investing, the goal in the semiconductor industry is to shrink the die size; smaller die size means a lower cost. While in the fingerprint sensor game, a smaller sensor means lower performance. So the goal in the sensor business is to increase the size of the sensor. When Stan and the team looked at that paradox several years ago, they said we need to decouple the ASIC technology from the sensor technology.

So for our TrustedBio, we have a very low cost sensor that's made from a polymer that is mounted to very low cost printed circuit board technology. That frees us up on the ASIC side to build an ASIC device that controls all that technology that's much more highly integrated and much more state of the art. We use a 40-nanometer process node for building that ASIC, and therefore we can integrate much more of the content and functionality that's in the biometric card subsystem. So our device integrates the sensor, the microcontroller unit for doing the sensor matching and running our proprietary algorithms for that sensor matching. We also manage all the energy harvesting. The card has to harvest energy from the POS terminal using near field communication. We harvest all the energy from the terminal and then manage all the power for every component on the card. And all of this integration allows us to have a much more simple card that's easier to manufacture for our customers.

And at the same time, the user experience doesn't change. When you hold the biometric card, you hold it over the POS terminal, the card harvests energy, powers up, authenticate your fingerprint, then approves the transaction, and all of this happens in the range of 1 to 1.5 seconds. So the user experience is almost identical to the user experience they're having today with dual interface cards.

And so again, the key point here is, IDEX is much more than a sensor company. We provide the full biometric solution. It's also very flexible. So the card manufacturers that we work with have the flexibility of choosing which features they want to enable and how they want to differentiate their own product. We have a significant cost advantage, as I mentioned. Today, to give you a kind of -- put a point on it, we enable the manufacturing in high volume of a biometric payment card in the range of $5. A dual interface card today in very high volumes is in the range of around $4. So again, only an incremental cost increase and a significant improvement in security.

And then, as I mentioned earlier, also the user experience does not change. And the system integration actually simplifies the whole card manufacturing process for our customers. So IDEX has quickly become the technology and cost leader in this space. And we'll talk about some of the major milestones we've achieved as a result of that.

Also, at IDEX, we have a pretty impressive product road map. So we're not a one trick pony. We'll have things on the roadmap that will continue to give us a leadership position as time goes on. We're driving improvements in system cost, we're driving improvements in usability and coming up with some very other innovative use cases for payment cards, and those things will be announced in the months and years ahead of us here. And we'll have enhanced security features as well through some of our more upcoming technologies that are coming out on the road map.

In terms of recent accomplishments, I've referred to several of these already, but just in the 2 months that I've been here, we did receive 2 certifications and letters of acceptance from major payment networks: 1 from China UnionPay and the second from a major U.S. based payment network. Having these certifications enables -- between those 2 networks, they cover 70% of the global branded payment cards, and we have customers working on the remaining 30% as well.

But what do these certifications mean? This means that card issuers, banks, can with confidence decide they want to develop and deploy payment cards that include biometrics. So this is a major gate to having the market take off, and it's a major accomplishment for the team here at IDEX and our partners. IDEX is the only fingerprint company, by the way, to receive both of these certifications, so again, a validation that we have a significant technology lead over our competition. We launched our new TrustedBio product family, as I mentioned, and we had the announcement that we were selected by IDEMIA -- IDEMIA is one of the largest payment card manufacturers globally, and I think a 1/3 market share, roughly, in the Western markets. And of course, a company like IDEMIA that has been in this business for a long time, went through a very rigorous selection process trying to understand our technology and what that brings to their solution, and they chose us over the competition.

Our TrustedBio solution was also selected by Zwipe. Zwipe has been a pioneer in this industry for a long time. And Zwipe is actually now selling secure element devices as part of their Pay ONE platform, and as part of that platform they needed a partner to add the fingerprint sensor and the overall sensor solution, including power management, that comes from our TrustedBio solution. And Zwipe has selected IDEX as their joint go-to-market partner there. So another validation of our technology.

Again, these are just a few of the accomplishments that have happened just in the 2 months that I've been here. It's been an exciting ride so far, and I can't wait to see what comes in the quarters ahead of us.

And with that, I'm going to turn it back over to Derek.

Thank you, Vince.

First, I'd like to echo Vince's statement and thank all of our employees for their dedication and achievements over these past few months, particularly through the difficult time with the COVID-19 pandemic. As many of you have seen, and Vince pointed out in our recent announcements, the team has really continued to work very, very productively with our partners, our customers on many aspects, including payment card certifications and, very importantly, design wins and orders.

First, I'll discuss our financial results for the first quarter and then I'll talk a little bit about our recent financings. I should note that beginning in the first quarter of 2020 IDEX is now presenting its financial statements in U.S. dollars as the majority of our revenues and expenses are U.S. dollar denominated.

Now turning to our financial results. We are pleased that product orders in 2020 for our sensors have already exceeded product orders for the prior 2 years combined, and we expect to begin to ramp our production and sales very soon, and 2020 is the year we begin commercializing and selling our sensors.

Revenue in the first quarter was $100,000 compared to $80,000 in the fourth quarter of 2019. Gross margin was 81%, higher, driven by high margin engineering service fees in the first quarter. Operating expenses in the first quarter were $5.9 million compared to $9.2 million in the fourth quarter of 2019.

Excluding share-based compensation, operating expenses were $5.4 million in the first quarter compared to $8.7 million in the fourth quarter of 2019. Operating expenses in the fourth quarter included severance costs related to the cost reduction actions taken and certain incentive compensation costs. Operating expenses in the first quarter were the company's lowest level of operating expenses since 2017, and I expect to continue to see stable operating expenses in the second quarter.

During the first quarter, IDEX successfully claimed research and development tax relief in the United Kingdom and received a cash refund of $850,000. In addition, the company has claimed research and development tax relief when it filed its 2019 U.K. tax returns and filed its U.S. tax returns. In addition, the company also has filed and received some relief related to the U.S. CARES Act and deferred its payroll taxes until 2021. As of March 31, 2020, the company had $7 million in cash and no financial debt.

We are very pleased to have completed a private placement of shares for $10.3 million on May 11. We believe this is a strong statement that supports IDEX's strategy, our technology and the significant potential value creation of the company. Proceeds from this capital raise will be used to meet our customer commitments and fund the company's growth opportunities going forward. The company is well capitalized, we believe, with this capital raise and expect that revenues will allow the company to meet our customer commitments and execute on our growth strategy.

We'll now open the call to your questions.

(Operator Instructions) And our first question comes from the line of [David Crystal], a private investor.

Yes. I just had a question about the remote enroll patents which you achieved in a number of jurisdictions in the past. Could you comment on how that potentially play a role in rolling out the products in the future? We haven't heard much about that.

Yes, that's a very good question, and appreciate the question actually. So one of the things that's actually been holding back the banks and the issuers with biometrics is, they didn't want to inconvenience their customers and have them to come into a bank branch or go to an ATM to enroll their fingerprint. And to solve that problem, our engineers came up with a very simple but innovative approach to have this remote enroll sleeve. So when the card is shipped to you, this low cost inexpensive sleeve is also shipped to your home and you can walk through an enrollment process in about a minute or less.

That enrollment sleeve has a tiny battery inside and then enables the customer to just enroll their fingerprint at home. The fingerprint is encrypted and stored on the card and only resides on the card. So that's what the remote enrollment entails. And in fact, it's a big enabler for us. So we have decided to license that technology out to anybody that wishes to have a license. So that would be issuers and card makers. And we get a nice royalty revenue stream from that, but also, we think it's really critical to help activate the market. So we're happy to license that technology at a reasonable fee to anybody in the industry.

Our next question comes from (inaudible).

The first one is related to the history of the company. In July 2018, you launched biometric cards to deliver to the Lebanese Fransabank. Could you please tell us what has been the key learnings from that pilot so far? And how many cards have you issued with Fransabank?

Derek, you have more of this history. I'm going to ask you to take this question, if you don't mind.

Sure. I joined 10 months ago. So that was about a year behind my starting at the company. That was a contact-based card. And I can tell you that the world has moved in the direction of contactless, and so our next -- and that was also on our first generation of our technology. Our second generation of technology, which is a dual interface and contactless card that has been certified recently by both China UnionPay and 1 major U.S. network. So the contactless technology is in the market right now. And then TrustedBio was also a contactless version, which is our next generation. So that particular contact-based card had very little sales on it.

Yes . I would say -- and again, I've only been here a few months, but I would say what I have heard internally from our team is, what that pilot did was allow a card issuer and IDEX and others to sort of test the market to see if there was a market for contact card with biometrics. And I think the feeling what came away from that was, well, if you have to touch the terminal and plug the card in anyway, a chip and PIN experience is almost as good in terms of fraud and authentication.

But where it really proved was that the contactless transaction is where biometrics makes the most sense. Because in a contactless transaction, you never plug the card in, you never sign a signature in the U.S. or in Europe you never put in your PIN. So you hold the card over the terminal, transaction complete and you walk away. And what's happened is, that's a very convenient transaction, but the way the card companies have chosen to limit fraud is that they've had very small transaction limits enabled for contactless transactions.

What COVID-19 has done is encourage people to have touch-less payment. So the banks have responded by increasing the transaction limits for contactless cards, and in so doing they've set themselves up, the banks and the retailers, for potential fraud that we haven't seen since the introduction of the chip and PIN card over 20 years ago. So adding biometrics to a contactless card, again, makes the user experience the same but increases the security and fraud prevention almost infinitely. So really that initial pilot actually helped us prove that we needed a solution for the contactless space.

And I'll add -- this is Derek -- I'll add to that a little bit. There was a couple of contact based pilots. Fransabank was one of them. Edenred in Mexico was another one. And you asked about learning. The other thing those pilots do is, they sort of market adoption type pilots, and we got a lot of feedback that people want biometrics. In fact, Visa posted some things to their website that talks about fingerprint biometrics. And the feedback we took and internalized from those contact based pilots helped improve our matching software algorithm. So that's been a benefit of that as well.

Okay. So do you have any pilots with commercial banks today with the contactless payment card?

Yes.

How many do you have?

Derek, how many? I don't how much of this is public since it's...

Yes . We do not publish that publicly yet. We've not published that publicly yet. But there are some contactless based pilots that are in line with our customers for our technology. We've not published that yet because the timing of that is still being worked out, given the global COVID-19 restrictions right now.

Okay. But could you please take just one of the pilots since you have many, and without specifying any names, could you please tell us when the pilot started; two, how many cards the bank will issue in the pilot; three, when the pilot will close -- when the project is finished; four, which card manufacturers you cooperate with in the pilot; and in which geographic region this pilot is so we get a sense what you're doing?

Sure. I can give you pieces of that. So some of these pilots, like I said, the timing is still open, given the COVID-19 pandemic. The cooperation is with IDEMIA. There are at least 2 pilots, 1 in Europe and 1 in the Middle East. I don't have card counts right now, like, some of those specifics. It's still open right now, as I mentioned, given some of the global uncertainty.

The last question from me. Last November, you announced a restructuring program that should result in 30% lower operating costs from the first quarter of this year. As far as you can see from the number, that hasn't happened. Could you just please explain why this didn't happen and if there is any plans going forward to reduce the operating cost level or if we should assume that this is the level going forward?

Sure. Good question. So yes, we took the cost reduction action 4 months after I joined the company in November of 2019. We let go 24% of our staff at that period of time, with a target of gaining [like] 30% overall cost reduction. We did take out about 28% of those costs. Some of it came out into Q1 as people have a -- many people have a 3 month stay notice, and those costs were taken out of the business.

And good news is, after that we signed a supply agreement with IDEMIA, and we've also launched our TrustedBio. So we've added back some costs, but you can look at Q1 -- our costs now in Q1, excluding stock-based compensation of $5.4 million, which is the lowest operating expense we've had in over 2.5 years, and I expect that number to stay pretty stable, even as we tape out our large ASIC project here that we have going on.

So I expect operating expenses to stay stable at about the Q1 number, and possibly tick down.

And our next question comes from the line of (inaudible).

The sensors, including the TrustedBio technology, are expected to be released in the first quarter of 2020. Will these cards be certified this early?

I'm sorry. As I understood the question, just let me repeat it: will the cards be certified by Q4 2020 based on TrustedBio, is that the question?

Will this TrustedBio technology be certified when you get into mass production if the card is certified then?

Yes. Our customers actually go for the certification. So in the case of the certification, the ones that are announced, IDEMIA in China and FEITIAN, they actually are the ones going for the certifications for the cards. The IDEMIA card that's going mass volume next year will be based on TrustedBio, and that will be certified by IDEMIA through the same card networks. We expect that certification -- and again, I can't speak for IDEMIA, but understanding the schedules for our product, I expect that certification will come probably early Q1.

And also, we don't expect any big hurdles on this certification because TrustedBio leverages all of the same technology, the same IP in terms of the matching algorithms, et cetera. It's just a more highly integrated solution at lower power and enables a lower-cost card, but the functionality will be the same.

According to certification with other manufacturers, could you say something about who will be the next or and when in time? When can we get other networks certified?

Again, this is driven by our customers largely. So we don't have an answer for that at this time. We unfortunately need to wait for our customers to make those announcements. We expect more certifications over the coming quarters.

And a question on the agreement with FEITIAN. You said that you have exclusivity on biometric payment card opportunities [in this card]. What do you expect, I mean, by this exclusivity? Can you please elaborate? Because FEITIAN is serving payment cards from several vendors, but you are on exclusivity [in China] so could you say what is it?

So FEITIAN does use sensors from other sensor companies and they build access cards for closed systems that the access card may get you into your office but also on the office campus, maybe able to use for cafeteria expenses or other expenses. In that sense, it might be considered a payment card. Our exclusivity with them is for a period of time. We will be their only supplier for payment cards that are certified on the China UnionPay network.

We could all give it at least 1 year on?

Yes.

Okay. How can we get financial analyst coverage for IDEX? (inaudible) to get?

Yes, this is Derek. So absolutely, and that's part of my task is to start to build that program, start to build -- I've been here 10 months, and I've had a good opportunity to meet now with a number of analysts in the Nordics and in the United States. And so the good news is, we've had Vince in front of a lot of these analysts, at least virtually. And I think people are finding it very interesting, I would call, the new IDEX, new management team, the product focus over the last 2 years. So that is absolutely the goal.

And just following up on the last question about operating expenses, just as a follow-up. The cash operating expenses Q4 versus Q1 -- Q1 cash operating expenses are down about 27% versus Q4, which was roughly our expectation.

Could you please comment on the plans for NASDAQ?

I apologize. Could you please repeat the question?

Can you please comment on the plans for going to NASDAQ?

Oh, for going to the NASDAQ. Yes, absolutely. The company has been listed on the Oslo Bors for 5 years now and on Oslo Stock Exchange for 10 years. So when we do go to the NASDAQ, it will be a dual listing so that you are listed on the NASDAQ and keep your listing on the Oslo Bors as well and keep the support of home country shareholders, of course. And then the goal would be to build new -- to also add on existing and new shareholders and of course to create a lot more value. The timing of that has not been announced publicly.

I can tell you that internally when I look at the company and the 10 months I've been here and I brought in a consultant to look at it with me, we are administratively ready to be a NASDAQ company. The company is well regulated on the Oslo Bors. We report quarterly. The financial statements effective this quarter are now in U.S. dollars. And you're right, building the analyst coverage and those sort of things. And of course shipping product in the next 2 [things] and then a NASDAQ process is in the plans. And that's where all my experience lies with the NASDAQ -- larger NASDAQ companies.

(inaudible) another question. It's (inaudible) I also have question. Can you tell us if you believe that we will make it breakeven in 2020 or maybe even make a profit?

We have not announced that publicly when we would hit breakeven. But I have said that right now, if you look at our operating expenses, if we took Q1's operating expenses, which were about USD 5.4 million and at our medium-term gross margins of about 50%, that would translate into about $45 million to breakeven, and that's down significantly from what it would have been.

So my focus was to reduce that breakeven point, which is somewhere in the range of 10 million to 12 million units, depending on what the ASPs are. So our medium-term gross margin targets are 50%. But I can tell you in the near term, over the next 12 months, the gross margin percentage will be well above 50%. So that breakeven number, dollars, could be lower. But we have not given publicly when that would be.

Okay. With the large U.S. based network, why don't you give us the name of it...

Yes. That company just prefers to not be named publicly. We would love to be able to give you the name. But it's one of the big payment networks that all of us recognize in the West, the Eurocard, Mastercard, Visa networks. So 1 of the big 3.

Yes . You say that (inaudible) in the world is optimized for the biometric payment cards. Can you say some words about this? Is this your off-chip technology that got the background for this...

I'm sorry, the line broke up a little bit here. Could I get you to repeat the question?

Yes . You say that the only biometric solution optimized for biometric payment card is IDEX's solution. Is this because you are an -- you now know that the off-chip technology is getting you ahead as a leader?

Yes. So that was the point I was trying to make earlier -- is that to really hit the cost points that you need to hit this mass market in the payment card space, we needed to break the paradigm of having the sensor manufactured out of semiconductor, out of silicon, and the real breakthrough here was separating those 2. So we have a much lower-cost ASIC that is actually much more highly integrated and we can make the sensor size as almost as large as we want for performance and it's still very low cost by taking that approach.

And just to give you an idea of the magnitude, if today we use 12-inch wafers at TSMC to bake our ASIC, those wafers, we get 6,600 gross die per wafer, and you pay by the wafer in the semiconductor business. If we were trying to make that sensor, the same size -- or ASIC the same size as the sensor, we would only get about 885 die per wafer. So you can see that breakthrough or that innovation that came from the team back in 2017 really is what enables this much lower cost point in the industry.

So I can take one more question, maybe. You had said something about market share here. And what you say today? Did you say (inaudible) 30%? Is that still going? Or is it even higher?

I'm sorry. Were we talking about margins?

Market share, yes.

Oh, market share?

Oh, market share?

Yes, sorry.

Earlier you have spoken of 30%. But is it now even higher?

Yes, I think it could be even -- actually could be much, much higher. If you look at the EMVCo world, just the EMVCo world, IDEMIA alone is about 1/3 of that market. And we have been engaged with all of the major -- we've got a supply agreement with IDEMIA, and we're engaged with all of the top card manufacturers in China and another 4.5 billion chip cards are in circulation with China UnionPay, and we've been in contact and having good dialog with 2 of the other major card networks in Europe. So I think it could be significantly higher than that 30% based upon the value proposition that our TrustedBio offers, absolutely.

We have one small -- one more question here. If you take today's sensors, do you think you will get some (inaudible) orders for that one? Or will everyone now wait for the...

This is Derek. Yes, absolutely. One of the things I mentioned earlier that -- the way I look at the company is, over the last 2.5 years, the company has been developing the ASICs that are now in the market and are now certified, and those products that are now certified and being sold in 2020, already being shipped, already have orders and being shipped in 2020 beginning here at the end of Q2, and then going on throughout the remainder of 2020 for existing products today -- sensors in both the payment card market and in the information security market.

So you'll see sales on those and then of course, you'll see significantly higher volumes on TrustedBio, but you'll see sales on both.

Okay. So when do you expect to start to deliver? I know you're saying this coming fourth quarter. But...

No, no. Second quarter. We'll start shipping existing products -- we have the orders we have for existing products today, we'll be shipping beginning at the end of the second quarter here.

Yes, I know that. But I was talking now about the TrustedBio that's coming in the fourth quarter. When do you think you can start to invoice and get high volume orders for that one?

Depending on how quickly IDEMIA gets that card manufacturing done certified and begin to ramp, we expect for sure by the second half of next year, but probably possible by the end of Q2. Again, that's based on the schedules we know today.

And the other type manufacturers that we're working with are people like -- that we're talking to are the other -- the #2 and #3 manufacturers or actually the #1 card manufacturer in Europe and the #3 card manufacturer in Europe as well, where our TrustedBio solution, which we think offers, like I said, a significant cost and performance value and also manufacturability value.

Fantastic. I think you should take a phone call to Donald Trump, and I'm sure everyone in America will have this card in 2 months.

One of the benefits -- one of the things we've seen, as Vince mentioned recently in the U.S., if you ask people a year ago, I think contactless was absolutely on Mastercard's schedule to roll out in 2020 in the United States. I think it was less known in the United States, but the infrastructure was largely being put in place. But as a result of the global pandemic over the last 2 months, we've seen a lot in the mainstream media about contactless, and of course, adding a biometric makes it a fully contactless solution. So we're really excited about the fact that we can offer a solution that can be helpful here.

And we have no more questions registered. I now hand back to our speakers for any closing comments.

Yes. And I just want to thank everybody, a, all the investors on the line here for your support in the past and with the most recent capital raise. We appreciate the investors that believe in the company and stick with us for the long term. We're in it, certainly, for the long term. And as I said at the beginning, I'm very excited to be here, I'm very excited about the opportunity and I appreciate all your time this morning and all the good questions. Thank you very much.

This now concludes our [conference]. Thank you all for attending. And you may now disconnect your lines.