Installed Building Products Inc (IBP) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to Installed Building Products third-quarter 2024 conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加已安裝建築產品 2024 年第三季電話會議。（操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。

I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Mr. Darren Hicks. Thank you. You may begin.

現在我想將會議交給東道主達倫·希克斯先生。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Good morning and welcome to Installed Building Products third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. Earlier today, we issued a press release on our financial results for the third quarter, which can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website.

早上好，歡迎參加已安裝建築產品 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天早些時候，我們發布了有關第三季度財務業績的新聞稿，您可以在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到該新聞稿。

On today's call, management's prepared remarks and answers to your questions may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These forward-looking statements are based on management's current expectations and beliefs. These statements are subject to risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described today. Please refer to the cautionary statements and risk factors in our SEC filings, including our annual report on Form 10-K. We undertake no duty or obligation to update any forward-looking statement as a result of new information or future events, except as required by federal securities laws.

在今天的電話會議上，管理層準備好的評論和對您問題的回答可能包含聯邦證券法含義內的前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述是基於管理階層目前的期望和信念。這些陳述受到風險、不確定性和其他因素的影響，可能導致實際結果與今天描述的結果有重大差異。請參閱我們向 SEC 提交的文件中的警告聲明和風險因素，包括我們的 10-K 表格年度報告。我們不承擔因新資訊或未來事件而更新任何前瞻性聲明的責任或義務，聯邦證券法要求的除外。

In addition, management refers to certain non-GAAP and adjusted financial measures on this call. You can find a reconciliation of such measures to the nearest GAAP equivalent in the company's earnings release and additional reconciliation for EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA for earlier fiscal years in our investor presentation, which are available on our Investor Relations section of our website.

此外，管理階層在這次電話會議中提到了某些非公認會計原則和調整後的財務指標。您可以在公司的獲利報告中找到這些指標與最接近的GAAP 等值的調節表，以及我們的投資者簡報中EBITDA 和調整後EBITDA 的額​​外調節表，這些資訊可以在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。

This morning's conference call is hosted by Jeff Edwards, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Michael Miller, our Chief Financial Officer; and joined by Jason Niswonger, our Chief Administrative and Sustainability Officer.

今天早上的電話會議由我們的董事長兼執行長 Jeff Edwards 主持；和我們的財務長邁克爾米勒；我們的首席行政和永續發展長 Jason Niswonger 也加入了進來。

I will now turn the call over to Jeff.

我現在將把電話轉給傑夫。

Thanks, Darren and good morning to everyone joining us on today's call. As usual, I will start the call with some highlights and then turn the call over to Michael, who will discuss our financial results and capital position in more detail before we take your questions.

謝謝達倫，祝所有參加今天電話會議的人早安。像往常一樣，我將首先介紹一些要點，然後將電話轉給邁克爾，他將在我們回答您的問題之前更詳細地討論我們的財務表現和資本狀況。

IBP delivered record third quarter revenue and profitability supported by organic growth across all of our end markets. Our record quarterly results highlight the talent, commitment and focus of IBP's employees across the country who provide our customers with reliable, high-quality building product installation services.

在我們所有終端市場的有機成長的支持下，IBP 第三季營收和獲利能力創歷史新高。我們創紀錄的季度業績突顯了 IBP 全國各地員工的才華、承諾和專注，他們為我們的客戶提供可靠、高品質的建築產品安裝服務。

I want to mention that late September and early October has been a very difficult time for many people, including numerous IBP employees who were affected by the two hurricanes that hit the Southeast and the Mid-Atlantic regions of the United States. Our thoughts go out to those who have managed through the destruction and a big thank you goes out to everyone who rallied together and shared resources to support our employees and help restore operations.

我想說的是，9月底和10月初對許多人來說都是非常困難的時期，其中包括許多受到美國東南部和大西洋中部地區兩次颶風影響的IBP員工。我們向那些在災難中成功度過的人們表示慰問，並向所有團結起來並共享資源支持我們員工並幫助恢復營運的人表示衷心的感謝。

As we look to the future, the long-term view on demand for our installed service is unchanged. We believe long-term trends across our residential and commercial end markets are favorable as builders work to meet demand through the increased supply of houses, apartments and commercial structures.

展望未來，我們對安裝服務需求的長期看法並沒有改變。我們相信，住宅和商業終端市場的長期趨勢是有利的，因為建築商致力於透過增加房屋、公寓和商業建築的供應來滿足需求。

Looking at our third quarter sales performance, I am encouraged by consolidated sales growth of nearly 8% and same branch growth of 5%. In our largest end market, single-family sales growth was supported by a growing proportion of sales from national production builders in the quarter.

縱觀我們第三季的銷售業績，我對近 8% 的綜合銷售成長和 5% 的同店成長感到鼓舞。在我們最大的終端市場，本季國內生產建築商的銷售比例不斷增加，支撐了單戶住宅銷售的成長。

Additionally, our deep customer relationships, local market knowledge and an ability to align our pricing with the value we offer our customers were key to our third quarter single-family sales results. Our multifamily installation sales growth continued to be resilient with the apparent operational benefits of our centralized service-oriented model.

此外，我們深厚的客戶關係、當地市場知識以及將定價與為客戶提供的價值保持一致的能力是我們第三季單戶銷售業績的關鍵。我們的多戶型安裝銷售成長持續保持彈性，我們以集中服務為導向的模式具有明顯的營運優勢。

On a same-branch basis, multifamily sales in our Installation segment increased over 2%. We continue to see geographic and end market expansion opportunities in multifamily with an ability to sell IBP's installation services in markets where we historically have not had meaningful participation.

在同家分店的基礎上，安裝部門的多戶型銷售額成長了 2% 以上。我們繼續看到多戶住宅的地理和終端市場擴張機會，能夠在我們歷史上沒有有意義參與的市場銷售 IBP 的安裝服務。

Strong quarterly same-branch sales growth in our commercial end market reflects positive growth in both the light and heavy commercial markets. Profitability during the third quarter continued to reflect our strategic priority to apply our local market expertise to efficiently complete the most operationally and financially attractive jobs for our local business. This contributed to achieving all-time record quarterly diluted net income per share and adjusted EBITDA in the third quarter.

我們的商業終端市場同店季度銷售強勁成長反映了輕型和重型商業市場的積極成長。第三季的獲利能力持續反映了我們的策略重點，即運用我們的本地市場專業知識，以高效地完成對本地業務最具營運和財務吸引力的工作。這有助於第三季實現歷史記錄的季度攤薄每股淨利潤和調整後 EBITDA。

Acquisitions continue to be our top priority as we consider all of our options for capital allocation. Despite our growth over the years, we believe a meaningful opportunity still exists for us to expand our geographic presence and diversify the mix of building products we install across our national branch network.

當我們考慮所有資本配置選擇時，收購仍然是我們的首要任務。儘管我們多年來不斷發展，但我們相信仍然存在一個有意義的機會，可以擴大我們的地域影響力並使我們在全國分支機構網絡中安裝的建築產品組合多樣化。

During the 2024 third quarter and in October, we completed the following acquisitions: an Illinois-based residential and commercial installer of building products serving key markets in the Midwest with annual revenue of approximately $20 million and a specialty distributor focused on supplying insulation and related accessories and machinery to residential and commercial end markets with annual revenue of over $22 million.

在2024 年第三季和10 月份，我們完成了以下收購：一家位於伊利諾州的住宅和商業建築產品安裝商，服務於中西部的主要市場，年收入約為2000 萬美元，以及一家專注於供應絕緣材料和相關配件的專業經銷商和機械到住宅和商業終端市場，年收入超過 2,200 萬美元。

To date, we have acquired over $73 million of annual revenue. Based on our current acquisition pipeline, we expect more deals to be completed before year-end. In addition, although deal timing is hard to predict, our current outlook for acquisition opportunities in 2025 is strong.

迄今為止，我們的年收入已超過 7,300 萬美元。根據我們目前的收購管道，我們預計年底前將完成更多交易。此外，儘管交易時機很難預測，但我們目前對 2025 年收購機會的前景看好。

Based on the US Census Bureau, single-family starts year-to-date through September 2024 have increased by 10%. We believe the current pace of starts growth supports a healthy demand environment for our single-family installation services in the near future.

根據美國人口普查局的數據，截至 2024 年 9 月，單戶住宅開工量增加了 10%。我們相信，目前的開工成長速度為我們的單戶安裝服務在不久的將來提供了健康的需求環境。

Additionally, beyond the typical demand drivers, we continue to believe the United States government incentives and planned mandates toward more stringent energy efficiency standards in new and existing single-family homes will be favorable for our business. Our strong customer relationships, experienced leadership team, national scale and diverse product categories across multiple end markets are advantages when navigating the ebbs and flows of demand related to the US construction market.

此外，除了典型的需求驅動因素之外，我們仍然相信美國政府對新建和現有單戶住宅制定更嚴格的能源效率標準的激勵措施和計劃強制要求將有利於我們的業務。我們強大的客戶關係、經驗豐富的領導團隊、全國規模和跨多個終端市場的多樣化產品類別，在應對美國建築市場相關需求的起伏時具有優勢。

Through the prevailing market conditions, we remain focused on profitability and effective capital allocation to drive earnings growth and value for our shareholders. I'm proud of our team's continued success and commitment to doing an excellent job for our customers. To everyone at IBP, thank you.

在當前的市場條件下，我們仍然專注於獲利能力和有效的資本配置，以推動股東的獲利成長和價值。我為我們的團隊不斷取得成功並致力於為客戶提供出色的工作而感到自豪。感謝 IBP 的所有人。

I remain excited by the prospects ahead for IBP and the broader installation and other building product installation business.

我對 IBP 以及更廣泛的安裝和其他建築產品安裝業務的未來前景仍然感到興奮。

So with this overview, I'd like to turn the call over to Michael to provide more detail on our third quarter financial results.

因此，透過此概述，我想將電話轉給邁克爾，以提供有關我們第三季財務業績的更多詳細資訊。

Thank you, Jeff, and good morning, everyone. Consolidated net revenue for the third quarter increased 8% to an all-time record of $761 million compared to $707 million for the same period last year. The increase in sales during the quarter reflected growth across all our end markets and sales from IBP's recent acquisitions. Our residential same-branch installation sales increased approximately 5% during the third quarter.

謝謝你，傑夫，大家早安。第三季綜合淨收入成長 8%，達到歷史最高水準 7.61 億美元，去年同期為 7.07 億美元。本季銷售額的成長反映了我們所有終端市場的成長以及 IBP 最近收購的銷售額。第三季度，我們的住宅同店安裝銷售額成長了約 5%。

Although the components behind our price-mix and volume disclosure have several moving parts that are difficult to forecast and quantify, we continue to experience top line improvement from a 2.7% increase in price-mix during the third quarter. We also experienced a 2.6% increase in job volumes relative to the third quarter last year.

儘管我們的價格組合和銷售披露背後的組成部分有幾個難以預測和量化的移動部分，但我們的收入繼續從第三季度價格組合增長 2.7% 的增長中得到改善。與去年第三季相比，我們的工作量也成長了 2.6%。

With respect to profit margins in the third quarter, our business achieved adjusted gross margin of 33.8%, down from 34.3% in the prior-year period. The margin reductions during the quarter were primarily due to a greater proportion of our single-family sales shifting to production builders as well as higher growth in non-insulation product sales relative to a year ago.

就利潤率而言，我們的業務調整後毛利率為33.8%，低於去年同期的34.3%。本季利潤率下降的主要原因是我們的單戶銷售中更大比例轉向生產建築商，以及非隔熱產品銷售較去年同期增長更快。

Adjusted selling and administrative expense as a percent of third quarter sales was 18.5% due primarily to higher insurance expense, facility and warehouse lease expense and initial start-up costs related to building out our internal accessory sourcing efforts from the prior-year period. Administrative expenses as a percent of third quarter sales in the third quarter of 2024 were flat with the second quarter of 2024.

調整後的銷售和管理費用佔第三季銷售額的百分比為 18.5%，這主要是由於去年同期保險費用、設施和倉庫租賃費用以及與建立我們的內部配件採購工作相關的初始啟動成本增加。2024 年第三季管理費用佔第三季銷售額的百分比與 2024 年第二季持平。

Adjusted EBITDA for the 2024 third quarter increased to an all-time record of $132 million, reflecting an adjusted EBITDA margin of 17.4%. For the nine months ended September 30, 2024, same-branch incremental EBITDA margins were 20%. Incremental EBITDA margins can be highly variable from quarter-to-quarter, but we continue to target full year long-term same-branch incremental adjusted EBITDA margins in the range of 20% to 25%.

2024 年第三季調整後 EBITDA 增至史上最高紀錄 1.32 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 17.4%。截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日的九個月，同分行 EBITDA 增量利潤率為 20%。各季度的增量 EBITDA 利潤率可能存在很大差異，但我們繼續將全年長期同分行增量調整後 EBITDA 利潤率目標定在 20% 至 25% 範圍內。

Adjusted net income increased to $80 million or $2.85 per diluted share. Although we do not provide comprehensive financial guidance, based on recent acquisitions, we expect fourth quarter 2024 amortization expense of approximately $10 million and full year 2025 expense of approximately $37 million. We would expect these estimates to change with any acquisitions we close in future periods. Also, we continue to expect an effective tax rate of 25% to 27% for the full year ending December 31, 2024.

調整後淨利增至 8,000 萬美元，即稀釋後每股收益 2.85 美元。儘管我們沒有提供全面的財務指導，但根據最近的收購，我們預計 2024 年第四季攤銷費用約為 1,000 萬美元，2025 年全年費用約為 3,700 萬美元。我們預計這些估計會隨著我們在未來期間完成的任何收購而改變。此外，我們仍預期截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的全年有效稅率為 25% 至 27%。

Now let's look at our liquidity position, balance sheet and capital requirements in more detail. For the nine months ended September 30, 2024, we generated $265 million in cash flow from operations compared to $251 million in the prior-year period.

現在讓我們更詳細地看看我們的流動性狀況、資產負債表和資本要求。截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日的九個月，我們的營運現金流為 2.65 億美元，去年同期為 2.51 億美元。

The year-over-year increase in operating cash flow was primarily associated with higher net income. Our third quarter net interest expense decreased to $8 million from $10 million in the prior-year period primarily due to lower cash interest expense following the completion of the term loan refinancing in the first quarter of 2024 and a greater amount of interest income from higher balances of cash and cash equivalents relative to the year-ago period.

經營現金流的年增率主要與淨利的增加有關。我們第三季的淨利息支出從去年同期的 1,000 萬美元降至 800 萬美元，主要是由於 2024 年第一季完成定期貸款再融資後現金利息支出減少，以及餘額增加帶來的利息收入增加與去年同期相比的現金和現金等價物的數量。

At September 30, 2024, we had a net debt to trailing 12 month adjusted EBITDA leverage ratio of 0.94 times compared to 1.1 times at September 30, 2023, which is well below our stated target of 2 times.

截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日，我們的淨債務與過去 12 個月調整後 EBITDA 槓桿率為 0.94 倍，而 2023 年 9 月 30 日為 1.1 倍，遠低於我們既定的 2 倍目標。

At September 30, 2024, we had $342 million in working capital, excluding cash and cash equivalents. Capital expenditures and total incurred finance leases for the three months ended September 30, 2024, were approximately $25 million combined, which was approximately 3% of revenue, roughly in line with the same period last year. With our strong liquidity position and modest financial leverage, we continue to prioritize expanding the business through acquisition and returning capital to shareholders.

截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日，我們的營運資金為 3.42 億美元，不含現金及現金等價物。截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日止三個月的資本支出和融資租賃總額合計約為 2,500 萬美元，約佔營收的 3%，與去年同期大致持平。憑藉強大的流動性狀況和適度的財務槓桿，我們繼續優先考慮透過收購和向股東返還資本來擴大業務。

During the 2024 third quarter, IBP repurchased 100,000 shares of its common stock in a privately negotiated transaction at a total cost of $21 million, bringing our repurchases for the first nine months of the year to $66 million.

2024 年第三季度，IBP 在一項私下協商交易中回購了 100,000 股普通股，總成本為 2,100 萬美元，使我們今年前 9 個月的回購額達到 6,600 萬美元。

At September 30, 2024, the company had approximately $234 million available under its stock repurchase program. IBP's Board of Directors approved a fourth quarter dividend of $0.35 per share, which is payable on December 31, 2024, to stockholders of record on December 15, 2024. Fourth quarter dividend represents a 6% increase over the prior-year period.

截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日，該公司在其股票回購計畫下擁有約 2.34 億美元的可用資金。IBP 董事會批准了每股 0.35 美元的第四季度股息，將於 2024 年 12 月 31 日支付給 2024 年 12 月 15 日登記在冊的股東。第四季股利較上年同期成長 6%。

With this overview, I will now turn the call back to Jeff for closing remarks.

有了這個概述，我現在將把電話轉回給傑夫，讓他發表結束語。

Thanks, Michael. I'd like to conclude our prepared remarks by once again thanking IBP employees for their hard work and commitment to our company. Our success over the years is made possible because of all of you.

謝謝，麥可。在結束我們準備好的演講時，我想再次感謝 IBP 員工的辛勤工作和對我們公司的承諾。我們這些年來的成功都是因為你們所有人才得以實現。

Operator, let's open up the call for questions.

接線員，讓我們開始提問吧。

(Operator Instructions) Stephen Kim, Evercore ISI.

（操作員說明）Stephen Kim，Evercore ISI。

Appreciate the -- appreciate all the information thus far. If you could, -- I think you mentioned that some of the margin factors that you cited, yes, I think you cited four of them this quarter, market share by large builders, non-insulation sales, start-up expenses from internal distribution and higher insurance. I was wondering if you could give us some general sense of the size of the impacts, particularly the first three. And could you elaborate a little bit on what those start-up expenses were for the internal distribution?

欣賞－欣賞迄今為止的所有訊息。如果可以的話，我想您提到了您提到的一些利潤因素，是的，我想您在本季度提到了其中的四個因素，大型建築商的市場份額，非絕緣銷售，內部分銷的啟動費用以及更高的保險。我想知道您是否能給我們一些關於影響大小的一般了解，特別是前三個影響。您能否詳細說明一下用於內部分配的啟動費用是多少？

Sure. This is Michael. So we did see, and as we've talked about multiple times on the calls, that both higher rates of growth from production builders as well as higher rates of growth from the other products definitely have an impact on gross margin.

當然。這是麥可.因此，我們確實看到，正如我們在電話會議中多次討論的那樣，生產製造商的較高增長率以及其他產品的較高增長率肯定會對毛利率產生影響。

So during the quarter, the production builder business grew at twice the rate of growth of regional and local builders have in the market or had in the quarter, excuse me. And it was actually the same for insulation.

因此，在本季度，生產建築商業務的成長速度是市場上或本季區域和本地建築商成長率的兩倍，請原諒。實際上對於絕緣來說也是一樣的。

So both fiberglass and spray foam combined relative to the other products. The other products grew at twice the rate that insulation grew at. Now interestingly, the insulation growth rate was impacted by a decline actually in spray foam revenue in the quarter. The rate of growth of fiberglass revenue was pretty similar to the other products.

因此，相對於其他產品，玻璃纖維和噴塗泡沫結合在一起。其他產品的成長速度是絕緣材料成長速度的兩倍。有趣的是，絕緣成長率受到本季噴塗泡沫收入實際下降的影響。玻璃纖維收入的成長率與其他產品非常相似。

In fact, all of our end products saw growth in the quarter, obviously, some higher than others with the exception of spray foam, which saw a mid-single-digit decline in the quarter. That decline, because -- as you know, because we've talked about it before, I mean, spray foam along with fiberglass is one of our highest margin product lines.

事實上，我們所有的最終產品在本季度都出現了成長，顯然，有些產品的成長高於其他產品，但噴塗泡沫除外，該產品在本季出現了中個位數的下降。這種下降是因為——正如你所知，因為我們之前已經討論過這個問題，我的意思是，噴塗泡沫和玻璃纖維是我們利潤率最高的產品線之一。

The decline and weakness, if you will, in spray foam pricing had about less than 100 basis points impact on gross margin and consequently would have had an impact of anywhere between $1 million to $1.5 million on EBITDA.

如果你願意的話，噴塗泡沫定價的下降和疲軟對毛利率的影響大約不到 100 個基點，因此會對 EBITDA 產生 100 萬至 150 萬美元的影響。

In terms of the other impacts in the quarter the start-up expenses associated with our internal sourcing. So this is -- we're getting more facilities for us to be able to internally distribute product to gain efficiencies in terms of that and to prevent us from doing more purchases outside of our normal purchasing network, meaning going to either distribution -- outside distribution or, say, Home Depot or Lowe's, we're adding facilities for that. And those costs we estimated in the quarter to probably be around $1 million as well.

就本季的其他影響而言，與我們內部採購相關的啟動費用。所以這就是 - 我們正在獲得更多設施，使我們能夠在內部分銷產品，從而提高效率，並防止我們在正常採購網絡之外進行更多購買，這意味著無論是在外部分銷分銷，或者說，家得寶（Home Depot）或勞氏（Lowe's），我們正在為此增加設施。我們估計本季的這些成本也可能約為 100 萬美元。

We also -- one of the things that Jeff had mentioned in his prepared remarks, we did have an impact from the hurricanes, both in September and October. Thankfully, all of our employees are safe. Some of our employees, unfortunately, had some fairly significant losses with their home and property. But again, everyone is safe.

我們也——傑夫在他準備好的演講中提到的事情之一，我們確實受到了颶風的影響，無論是九月還是十月。值得慶幸的是，我們所有的員工都很安全。不幸的是，我們的一些員工的房屋和財產遭受了相當嚴重的損失。但話又說回來，每個人都是安全的。

But we did lose quite a few days of work in those markets. We estimated that the impact from a revenue perspective in September was probably about $2 million and it had probably a little bit less than $1 million impact on EBITDA from the hurricanes.

但我們確實在這些市場損失了好幾天的工作。我們估計，從收入角度來看，颶風對 9 月的影響可能約為 200 萬美元，而對 EBITDA 的影響可能略低於 100 萬美元。

Got you. That's very, very helpful. And it sounds like these are factors that are probably going to extend into the fourth quarter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't sound like anything you just described was something that necessarily was just isolated to the third quarter, including the insurance.

明白你了。這非常非常有幫助。聽起來這些因素可能會延續到第四季。如果我錯了，請糾正我，但聽起來你剛才描述的任何事情都不一定是第三季的事情，包括保險。

I guess my next question would really kind of be to shift gears then and talk about the impact of the election. One of the things that I think -- well, that we've been wondering about is that perhaps a Trump administration is not going to be as interested in pursuing some of the energy efficiency initiatives and new construction and that that might actually result in an energy rollback. Another one of his priorities has also been labor, well, deportation.

我想我的下一個問題實際上是轉變方向並談論選舉的影響。我認為，我們一直想知道的一件事是，也許川普政府不會對推行一些能源效率舉措和新建築感興趣，而這實際上可能會導致能量回滾。他的另一項優先事項也是勞工，呃，驅逐出境。

I was curious if you could comment on what you think maybe a Trump presidency and actions -- executive actions might -- what kind of impact that might have on either your labor base or the plans for building to tighter energy codes in 2025.

我很好奇你是否能評論一下你對川普總統任期和行動（行政行動可能會）的看法，這可能會對你的勞動力基礎或2025 年制定更嚴格的能源法規的計劃產生什麼樣的影響。

This is Jeff. So I guess, first on the energy code question, we've never banked -- well, one, we don't know what he will do, obviously. But we've never really even internally banked on the idea that the most recent legislation that's been passed that's -- it was a couple of years out even anyway, the Fannie, Freddie based energy improvement.

這是傑夫。所以我想，首先在能源代碼問題上，我們從來沒有存過錢——嗯，一，我們顯然不知道他會做什麼。但我們內部從未真正相信過這樣的想法，即最近通過的立法——無論如何，這已經是幾年前的事了，基於房利美、房地美的能源改進。

So internally, just as we have for decades, I think we're banking on the normal, kind of gradual, both at the local and sometimes a statewide basis, adoption of just the normal, stricter progressive energy codes, not the kind of supercharged information that none of us have really been banking on. So that's, I think, where we are in regards to the codes.

因此，在內部，就像我們幾十年來一樣，我認為我們正在依靠正常的、漸進的方式，無論是在地方還是有時在全州範圍內，採用正常的、更嚴格的漸進式能源法規，而不是那種增壓的能源法規。我認為這就是我們在程式碼方面的現狀。

I think from a labor perspective, I think for the last 30 years, we've been able to hire and train a workforce to get the job done for us. I think under pretty much any circumstances -- it will be business as usual. Even -- I said this before, even during the Great Recession, we had to hire people and train people.

我認為從勞動力的角度來看，在過去的 30 年裡，我們已經能夠僱用和培訓勞動力來為我們完成工作。我認為在幾乎任何情況下——一切都會照常進行。甚至——我之前說過，即使在大衰退期間，我們也必須僱用人員和培訓人員。

So that's just the nature of this business, like any other construction business, even though we've done well in terms of improving our retention rates as compared to the market and as compared to the industry, it's still a high turnover business. So I think it's probably business as usual on a go-forward basis.

這就是這項業務的本質，就像任何其他建築業務一樣，儘管與市場和行業相比，我們在提高保留率方面做得很好，但它仍然是一項高營業額業務。所以我認為未來可能一切如常。

Yes. And I think -- this is Michael. I think something to note relative to the energy code aspect is, I mean, as I think pretty much everyone on this call knows, when Owens Corning announced their earnings, they also announced an expansion in their Kansas City facility. And that is not predicated on -- I believe they said that it was not predicated on any of the increased energy codes that we've been talking about relative to Fannie and Freddie. It's just that we're all seeing good demand.

是的。我想——這就是麥可。我認為與能源法規方面相關的值得注意的是，我認為這次電話會議中幾乎每個人都知道，當歐文斯科寧宣布其收益時，他們也宣布了堪薩斯城工廠的擴建。這並不是基於——我相信他們說，這並不是基於我們一直在談論的與房利美和房地美相關的任何增加的能源法規。只是我們都看到了好的需求。

And as the shift in starts normalizes between single-family and multifamily, that creates more demand for fiberglass. So we saw that as a very good, solid endorsement for the industry as a whole.

隨著單戶住宅和多戶住宅的開工率轉變正常化，這對玻璃纖維產生了更多的需求。所以我們認為這是對整個產業非常好的、堅實的認可。

Absolutely.

絕對地。

Susan Maklari, Goldman Sachs.

蘇珊·馬克拉里，高盛。

My first question is on the mix within the business. We saw volume versus price-mix really come in very closely in line with each other this quarter for the first time in a very long time, probably.

我的第一個問題是關於業務內部的組合。我們看到本季銷量與價格組合確實非常接近，這可能是很長一段時間以來的第一次。

What does that say about operating conditions on the ground? Does it suggest that we're closer to some normalization with that? And do you think that those two will stay closer as you look out from here? Is that something that we should be anticipating as we think about the next several quarters or years?

這對地面操作條件有何影響？這是否表示我們已經接近正常化了？當你從這裡向外看時，你認為這兩個人會更接近嗎？當我們考慮未來幾個季度或幾年時，這是我們應該期待的事情嗎？

Yes. I would think of it in terms of years and not in terms of quarters because, as you know, there's just a lot of volatility in the way that -- just the makeup of the way that we disclose the volume and the price-mix. And there are so many puts and takes into that that it is difficult to say for certain what's going to happen quarter-to-quarter.

是的。我會以年為單位來考慮，而不是以季度為單位，因為正如你所知，這種方式存在很大的波動性——只是我們披露數量和價格組合的方式的構成。涉及的因素太多，很難確定每個季度會發生什麼。

But I think on a full year basis and particularly as we look at '25, we would like to see more normalization between the two. I would say, though, that we think some of the trends that we're continuing to see -- that we saw in the third quarter and that we will continue to see in the fourth quarter are really more elevated towards volumes being higher than price-mix.

但我認為，從全年的角度來看，特別是當我們展望 25 年時，我們希望看到兩者之間更加正常化。不過，我想說的是，我們認為我們繼續看到的一些趨勢——我們在第三季度看到的以及我們將在第四季度繼續看到的趨勢實際上更加傾向於銷量高於價格-混合。

We continue to be in a benign inflationary environment and we're continuing to see good growth from the production builders and on the single-family side. Some of the preliminary survey information from the builders that we've seen suggest that October single-family starts were up anywhere between 10% to 14%, which we think is very solid. We feel that multifamily is stabilizing in terms of the rate of decline.

我們繼續處於良性的通膨環境中，我們繼續看到生產建築商和單戶住宅​​的良好增長。我們看到的一些來自建築商的初步調查資訊表明，10 月單戶住宅開工量上漲了 10% 至 14%，我們認為這是非常可靠的。我們認為，多戶住宅的下降速度正在趨於穩定。

And we are seeing bidding picking up in the multifamily side. I mean, our CQ team, which we've talked about before, that's centralized for about 40% of our multifamily business, they're continuing to see very good bidding. They're doing an incredible job of diversifying the products that they're successfully winning bids on in terms of the other products, not just insulation.

我們看到多戶住宅方面的競標增加。我的意思是，我們之前討論過的 CQ 團隊集中負責我們約 40% 的多戶型業務，他們繼續看到非常好的出價。他們在產品多樣化方面做得非常出色，他們成功贏得了其他產品的投標，而不僅僅是隔熱材料。

So we feel very encouraged about sort of where we're headed as we go into '25 from a single-family and a stabilization in multifamily. I mean, clearly, multifamily is going to continue to be a headwind in the fourth quarter and into the first half of next year. But we feel confident about our long-term ability in multifamily to continue to gain market share and really provide incredible value for the services we provide.

因此，當我們從單戶家庭進入 25 世紀並穩定多戶家庭時，我們對自己的發展方向感到非常鼓舞。我的意思是，顯然，多戶住宅將在第四季和明年上半年繼續成為不利因素。但我們對我們在多戶住宅領域的長期能力充滿信心，能夠繼續獲得市場份額，並真正為我們提供的服務提供令人難以置信的價值。

Okay. That's helpful. And then turning to G&A. I know you mentioned this a little bit in the prior question, but just as we do look out, can you talk about the ability to leverage those costs over time?

好的。這很有幫助。然後轉向 G&A。我知道您在上一個問題中提到了這一點，但正如我們所關注的那樣，您能否談談隨著時間的推移利用這些成本的能力？

Yes. Volume obviously helps. If you -- G&A is -- it's somewhat of a stagnant, if you will. I mean, it grows with inflation. But I mean, if you look at G&A relative as a percentage -- SG&A as a percentage of revenue from second quarter to third quarter they're basically in line, a little bit better in the third quarter. We did have some additional expenses that we talked about, both on the insurance side as well as some of the start-up costs associated with the internal sourcing strategy, which I think, as we pointed out in the previous question, is our cost that will continue to be there.

是的。音量顯然有幫助。如果你——G&A——它有點停滯不前，如果你願意的話。我的意思是，它隨著通貨膨脹而增長。但我的意思是，如果你看一下一般管理費用相對百分比——第二季到第三季的一般管理費用佔收入的百分比，它們基本上是一致的，第三季稍微好一點。我們確實有一些我們談到的額外費用，包括保險方面以及與內部採購策略相關的一些啟動成本，我認為，正如我們在上一個問題中指出的那樣，這是我們的成本將繼續在那裡。

I would say that if you look in the third quarter of last year, I mean, our adjusted selling and administrative expense percentage was one of the lowest we've had in a while. And if you look over the past four quarters, where we are now is pretty much in line with where we've been for the past, well, now five quarters, I guess, four quarters.

我想說，如果你看看去年第三季度，我的意思是，我們調整後的銷售和管理費用百分比是我們一段時間以來最低的百分比之一。如果你回顧過去的四個季度，我們現在的情況與過去的情況非常一致，好吧，現在是五個季度，我想是四個季度。

But -- so yes, we're very pleased on the gross margin front, quite frankly, given the headwind that we had with spray foam and the real significant headwinds that we had with both the production builder business and the other products growth growing as well as they did, quite honestly, that the gross margin held up as well as it did, given those three factors was very impressive. It was a great job from the team to make sure that that happened and that we didn't lose too much margin given those three things happening in the quarter.

但是 - 所以，是的，坦白說，考慮到我們在噴塗泡沫方面遇到的阻力，以及我們在生產製造商業務和其他產品增長方面遇到的真正重大阻力，我們對毛利率非常滿意。說，考慮到這三個因素非常令人印象深刻，毛利率保持得很好。團隊的工作非常出色，確保了這一切的發生，並考慮到本季發生的這三件事，我們沒有損失太多利潤。

Yes. No, the gross margin was very impressive.

是的。不，毛利率非常可觀。

Michael Rehaut, JPMorgan.

麥可雷豪特，摩根大通。

Nice job on the quarter. I wanted to first kind of revisit -- you kind of mentioned how pleased you've been with gross margins. And I guess when you look at over the last two or three years, from 2022, you had gross margins at 31%. They were kind of at 30% to 31% from 2020 to '22. And then from 2023 on, it's kind of taken a structural shift almost, it looks like, into the high 33% range. Last five, six quarters, you've been above that number.

本季工作做得很好。我想先回顧一下——您提到您對毛利率感到多麼滿意。我想，從 2022 年開始，看看過去兩三年的情況，你的毛利率為 31%。從 2020 年到 22 年，這一比例約為 30% 至 31%。然後從 2023 年開始，它看起來幾乎發生了結構性轉變，進入了 33% 的高位區間。過去五、六個季度，你一直高於這個數字。

At the same time, the SG&A has also popped up a little bit. And you're looking at mid-18s for the last four quarters as well. Before that you were doing 16%, 17% or a little under 18%. Can you kind of walk through what's changed in the business? Are we structurally now just looking at kind of a high 33% and a mid-18% SG&A? What might allow that to -- do you feel like that's kind of a structural change? Or are there any kind of factors that might allow for reversion in either of those metrics over the next 12 to 24 months?

同時，SG&A 也出現了一些。您還可以看到過去四個季度的 18 歲左右。在此之前，你的比例是 16%、17% 或略低於 18%。能介紹一下業務發生了什麼變化嗎？從結構上看，我們現在是否只關注 33% 的高 SG&A 和 18% 的中 SG&A？是什麼讓這種情況發生──你覺得這是一種結構性改變嗎？或者是否有任何因素可能導致這些指標在未來 12 到 24 個月內出現逆轉？

Yes. I mean, we continue to feel -- and I get that this is a wide range, but we continue to feel that sort of that 32% to 34% gross margin is consistent. And if you look -- and you pointed this out, over the past five quarters, the adjusted gross margin has averaged 34%, right. So we've been bumping around that high end of the 32% to 34 %. There will be puts and takes quarter-to-quarter, but that 32% to 34% on a full year basis range we're very comfortable that we can maintain that and that makes sense.

是的。我的意思是，我們仍然認為——我知道這是一個很大的範圍，但我們仍然認為 32% 到 34% 的毛利率是一致的。如果你看一下——並且你指出了這一點，在過去的五個季度中，調整後的毛利率平均為 34%，對吧。所以我們一直在 32% 到 34% 的高端徘徊。每個季度都會有看跌期權和看跌期權，但全年 32% 至 34% 的範圍內，我們非常滿意我們可以維持這一水平，這是有道理的。

In terms of the adjusted SG&A percentage, it will vary quarter-to-quarter just because of some seasonality in the business. And the more volume we have, the better leverage we obviously get on SG&A. We would expect that over time, we would be able to improve that leverage.

就調整後的SG&A百分比而言，由於業務存在一定的季節性，每季都會有所不同。我們擁有的銷售量越多，我們在銷售、管理及行政費用上的槓桿作用顯然就越大。我們預計，隨著時間的推移，我們將能夠提高這種槓桿作用。

I would say, though, that what happened really in '23 and is still happening to some extent in '24 is that all of the inflation in cost of goods sold happened very quickly during the '21, '22 time frame. SG&A expenses because they are lagging, both up and down, it takes time for them to filter through. So things like rent expense, right? If you have a three year lease, you're committed to that expense. And then when it renews and rates are much higher, then you experience the higher rental rates. And that's true of all facility costs, quite frankly.

不過，我想說的是，23 年真正發生的事情，以及24 年在某種程度上仍在發生的事情是，在21 年、22 年時間範圍內，銷售商品成本的所有通貨膨脹都發生得非常快。SG&A 費用因為無論上升或下降都是滯後的，因此需要時間來過濾。像租金這樣的事情，對嗎？如果您的租約約為三年，則您將承擔該費用。然後當它續訂並且費率更高時，您就會體驗到更高的租金。坦白說，所有設施成本都是如此。

It's true that our G&A employees, our administrative employees that are at the branch and also at the corporate office, it took time for the inflation in that labor component to fully work its way through the P&L, quite frankly. So the run rate -- dollar value of run rate of sort of G&A, where we are right now is fairly consistent.

確實，坦白說，我們在分行和公司辦公室的 G&A 員工、行政員工，勞動力部分的通貨膨脹需要一段時間才能完全反映在損益表中。因此，我們現在所處的運作率——類似一般管理費用的運作率的美元價值是相當一致的。

And we would expect that as we go through '25, and I'm focused primarily on G&A and not on selling expenses because they're much more variable to revenue, we would think that they would be typically based solely on a typical 3% to 5% sort of inflation rate. Of course, acquisitions come with their own G&A and they add G&A when we do those deals.

我們預計，當我們進入 25 年時，我主要關注 G&A，而不是銷售費用，因為它們對收入的影響更大，我們認為它們通常僅基於典型的 3%到 5% 的通貨膨脹率。當然，收購伴隨著自己的一般費用和行政費用，當我們進行這些交易時，他們會添加一般費用和行政費用。

All right. I appreciate that answer, Michael. I mean, maybe just kind of further kind of delving into the gross margin. Obviously, as you just mentioned, the last several quarters, you've been right at the high end of that 32% to 34% range. This quarter, 33.8% despite negative mix from production builders, from non-insulation sales, from other items and you're still kind of at that higher end.

好的。我很欣賞這個答案，麥可。我的意思是，也許只是進一步研究毛利率。顯然，正如您剛才提到的，過去幾個季度，您一直處於 32% 至 34% 範圍的高端。本季度，儘管來自生產製造商、非絕緣材料銷售和其他產品的負面混合，但仍達到 33.8%，而且您仍然處於較高水平。

So I'm just kind of curious if you -- if, again, there are certain factors maybe that are keeping you at that higher end that are in place today that maybe you feel you can't bank on over the next couple of years. Is it just as we see more greater growth in production and non-insulation, if that's going to push it, let's say, more towards the middle of that range? Just any thoughts in terms of why you've been able to sustain at that higher end?

所以我只是有點好奇，如果你——再說一次，是否有某些因素可能讓你保持在今天的較高水平，也許你覺得在接下來的幾年裡你不能指望它。是否正如我們看到生產和非絕緣材料的增長更大，如果這會將其推向該範圍的中間？您對為什麼能夠維持在較高水平有什麼想法嗎？

Yes. I mean, I would say, and this is consistent with what we've been saying for the past several quarters, is that the reason we give the range of 32% to 34% on the gross margin is that, yes, the higher level of production builder sales, which we think is something that -- a trend that is going to continue, although I would say that in October, we had similar sales rate growth from the production builders as we did from the regional and local builders. So we were glad to see that, quite frankly.

是的。我的意思是，我想說，這與我們過去幾個季度所說的一致，我們給出毛利率 32% 到 34% 範圍的原因是，是的，更高的水平生產建築商的銷售，我們認為這一趨勢將持續下去，儘管我想說，十月份，我們的生產建築商的銷售率增長與區域和當地建築商的銷售率增長類似。坦白說，我們很高興看到這一點。

But clearly, over time, the growth of the other products and that production builder business will put pressure on gross margin. It's up to our team to work and strive to make sure that when we're doing that work, that we're lifting up the other products' margins and that we're doing the best job for the production builders and are as most efficient as possible so that we can get the most value out of those sales as well.

但顯然，隨著時間的推移，其他產品和生產製造商業務的成長將對毛利率造成壓力。我們的團隊需要努力工作，努力確保當我們做這項工作時，我們正在提高其他產品的利潤，並且我們正在為生產建設者做最好的工作並且效率最高盡可能，以便我們也能從這些銷售中獲得最大價值。

So I mean, I think it's something that we will continuously work on. We are a highly gross margin-focused and EBITDA dollar-focused company. And the team has done an excellent job of performing and I think they will continue to do that.

所以我的意思是，我認為這是我們將不斷努力的事情。我們是一家高度重視毛利率和 EBITDA 美元的公司。團隊表現出色，我認為他們將繼續這樣做。

Adam Baumgarten, Zelman & Associates.

亞當‧鮑姆加滕 (Adam Baumgarten)，Zelman & Associates。

Just on spray foam, can you remind us what percentage of revenue that accounts for? And also how much of a headwind pricing was in spray foam to overall price mix?

就噴塗泡沫而言，您能告訴我們它佔收入的百分比是多少嗎？噴塗泡沫的定價對整體價格組合有多少影響？

So spray foam is about 10% of overall revenue. And we estimate that it impacted gross margin less than 100 basis points.

因此噴塗泡沫約佔總收入的 10%。我們估計它對毛利率的影響不到 100 個基點。

Okay. Got it.

好的。知道了。

But more than the decline from second quarter to third quarter in adjusted gross margin.

但調整後毛利率的降幅大於第二季至第三季。

Okay. And that should stick with the business probably for the next few quarters, right?

好的。這可能會在接下來的幾個季度持續影響業務，對吧？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. Got it. And then just on multifamily, that's been decelerating a bit. I think you made the comment that it's stabilizing. Do you expect that to turn negative either in the fourth quarter or even in the first half of '25? I know you said that it could still be a headwind over that time frame.

好的。知道了。然後就多戶住宅而言，這一趨勢有所放緩。我想你說過它正在穩定下來。您預計第四季甚至 25 年上半年會出現負值嗎？我知道你說過，在這段時間內，這仍然可能是一個阻力。

Yes. I mean, it's definitely going to be a headwind. And the comment about the stabilization was really more as it relates to starts. And as you know, the start to install on multifamily is much greater than the start to install on single-family. So even with starts stabilizing and maybe even coming up a little to a more kind of normalized level, it's going to take a while before we feel the impact of that. So it's definitely going to be over the next couple of quarters, more a negative than a positive.

是的。我的意思是，這肯定會是一個逆風。關於穩定的評論實際上更多是因為它與啟動有關。如您所知，多戶住宅的安裝起步比單戶住宅的起步要大得多。因此，即使開始穩定下來，甚至可能稍微達到正常化水平，我們也需要一段時間才能感受到其影響。因此，未來幾季肯定會出現負面影響，而不是正面影響。

Although I would say that our team, CQ, which we've talked about a lot, they represent about 40% of our multifamily revenue, are doing an incredible job of keeping their backlogs up and really maintaining their pace of sales. So we feel good that we will continue to perform better than what the overall market opportunity would present itself in multifamily.

儘管我想說，我們的團隊 CQ（我們已經討論過很多次）占我們多戶型收入的 40% 左右，但他們在保持積壓訂單和真正保持銷售節奏方面做得非常出色。因此，我們感到很高興，我們將繼續比多戶住宅的整體市場機會表現得更好。

Phil Ng, Jefferies.

菲爾·吳，杰弗里斯。

This is Maggie on for Phil. I wanted to dig into your demand outlook by customer type. It sounds like production builders are growing a lot faster than your more regional local, but those -- you're still seeing growth in the regional builders. But with rates ticking up the last month or so, I think those regionals have less leverage to things like rate buydowns that maybe the production builders are benefiting from. So maybe if you could just talk about what you're hearing from your different customer types on the demand outlook there.

這是瑪姬為菲爾代言的。我想按客戶類型深入了解您的需求前景。聽起來生產建設者的增長速度比您的區​​域性本地建設者要快得多，但是您仍然看到區域建設者的增長。但隨著上個月左右利率的上升，我認為這些地區對利率購買等事情的影響力較小，而生產建設者可能從中受益。因此，也許您可以談談您從不同客戶類型那裡聽到的有關需求前景的信息。

It's more encouraging than we would expect given, you're absolutely right, what happens in the rate environment. I do think that there's been volatility in traffic and demand perspective for the builders. And I think -- obviously I don't know, but I do think that having the election behind us and taking out the uncertainty associated with the election is going to help. And we'll see where rates go over the next three to six months.

鑑於利率環境中發生的情況，你絕對是對的，這比我們預期的更令人鼓舞。我確實認為建築商的交通和需求前景存在波動。我認為——顯然我不知道，但我確實認為選舉已經過去並消除與選舉相關的不確定性將會有所幫助。我們將看看未來三到六個月的利率走勢。

But I would also agree with -- or we would agree with your statement that there's a lot more flexibility among the production builders to do rate buydowns than the regional and local builders. Not to say that they don't do it, but they certainly don't do it to the extent that the production builders do.

但我也同意——或者我們同意你的說法，即生產建築商在進行利率購買方面比區域和當地建築商有更大的靈活性。並不是說他們不這樣做，但他們肯定沒有達到生產建設者所做的程度。

So, I think it continues to be similar to the environment that we had in the first half of this year, where the current operating environment continues to favor production builders and the production builders are leaning into continuing to gain market share.

因此，我認為它仍然與今年上半年的環境相似，當前的營運環境繼續有利於生產製造商，並且生產製造商傾向於繼續獲得市場份額。

Got it. That's helpful. And then the outperformance in multifamily or I guess, continued positive performance and you've talked about opportunities for expansion in multifamily, is that more organically? Or are you seeing M&A opportunities in that space? And then are you talking about geographic expansion or actually increasing penetration of other products for those end markets?

知道了。這很有幫助。然後，多戶住宅的表現出色，或者我猜，持續的積極表現，並且您談到了多戶住宅的擴張機會，這是否更有機？或者您在該領域看到併購機會嗎？那麼您是在談論地域擴張還是實際上增加其他產品在這些終端市場的滲透率？

Yes, that's --.

是的，那就是--.

Both, from products and geographic expansion.

兩者都來自產品和地理擴張。

Yes. It's not acquisition related. It's really organic geographic expansion and other products. Yes.

是的。這與收購無關。這確實是有機的地理擴張和其他產品。是的。

Trey Grooms, Stephens.

特雷格魯姆斯、史蒂芬斯。

So you're not facing any inflation right now on fiberglass or I guess, no new pricing actions from insulation suppliers right now. But kind of thinking maybe higher level and a little longer term, as we think about the supply-demand picture for '25, I mean there's going to be some puts and takes, I understand, but do you think the dynamics are at play that will lend itself to a more kind of inflationary environment? Or how are you looking at it maybe, again, from just a high level?

因此，您現在沒有面臨玻璃纖維的任何通貨膨脹，或者我猜，絕緣材料供應商目前沒有新的定價行動。但是，當我們考慮 25 年的供需情況時，這種思考可能更高層次、更長遠一些，我的意思是，我理解，將會有一些看跌和拿走，但你認為動態在發揮作用嗎？會導致更通膨的環境嗎？或者，您又如何從高層次來看待它？

This is Jeff. Supply continues to be tight despite recent capacity adds. And I honestly -- I mean, as Michael mentioned earlier, I think it is good news from Owens Corning quite frankly all of these capacity adds that we're talking about are not probably going to make it by any means a free flow market for a number of years in our opinion. So it'll continue to be tight in that regard.

這是傑夫。儘管最近產能有所增加，但供應仍然緊張。老實說，我的意思是，正如邁克爾之前提到的，我認為這是歐文斯科寧的好消息，坦率地說，我們正在談論的所有這些產能增加都可能不會以任何方式使其成為一個自由流動的市場。因此，在這方面它將繼續保持緊張。

As Michael also mentioned, we're doing things to not get in the same position we've been in sometimes when material was tight historically in terms of being able to satisfy internally some of our more emergency-like purchase needs. So that part will be good. But I think it'll be a healthy environment. I think it'll be a rising price environment. And kind of where do we see it for the next number of years, I think.

正如邁克爾也提到的那樣，我們正在做的事情是為了避免陷入歷史上材料緊張的情況，以便能夠在內部滿足一些更緊急的採購需求。所以那部分會很好。但我認為這將是一個健康的環境。我認為這將是一個價格上漲的環境。我想，在接下來的幾年裡，我們會在哪裡看到它。

There's other manufacturers even looking at capacity adds, but it's -- that's a long process. If it's a complete new build, it's three years-ish plus, right? If it's adding a line in an existing facility, it's still in the neighborhood of 30 months as Owens Corning pointed out, 24 to 36 months. Yes.

還有其他製造商甚至在考慮增加產能，但這是一個漫長的過程。如果是全新的，需要三年多的時間，對吧？如果在現有設施中增加一條生產線，則仍需要 30 個月左右的時間，正如歐文斯科寧 (Owens Corning) 指出的那樣，即 24 至 36 個月。是的。

Yes. Okay. That all makes sense. And I did want to kind of circle back, Michael, to one comment you had. And sorry if you dug in deeper than I heard. But -- so you mentioned that the trends in the third quarter continue -- should continue into the fourth. And I believe you were talking about how volume is better than price mix.

是的。好的。這一切都是有道理的。邁克爾，我確實想回到你的一個評論。如果你挖得比我聽到的更深，我很抱歉。但是 - 所以你提到第三季的趨勢仍在繼續 - 應該會持續到第四季。我相信您正在談論數量如何比價格組合更好。

So is -- could you go into that a little bit deeper? Is that saying that you kind of expect a very similar picture? Or is it more a thought of maybe a little more deceleration in the price mix at all from here or stabilization or growth in volume? Just how do we kind of think about that comment a little more specifically, if you could?

那麼——你能更深入地討論一下嗎？這是否意味著您期待看到非常相似的圖片？或者更多的是考慮價格組合從這裡開始進一步減速，或者數量穩定或增長？如果可以的話，我們如何更具體地考慮該評論？

Yes. It was really more related to kind of '25 and all of '25 in that if the trends that we're seeing now continue, that is higher sales from the production builders, lower multifamily sales and higher other product sales that we would expect volume to be greater than price mix.

是的。這實際上與「25」和「25」的所有內容更相關，因為如果我們現在看到的趨勢持續下去，那就是生產建築商的銷售額增加，多戶型銷售額下降，以及我們預期的其他產品銷售額增加大於價格組合。

Keith Hughes, Truist Securities.

基斯‧休斯 (Keith Hughes)，Truist 證券公司。

Okay. Sorry about that. I'm not sure what happened. -- My question. If we look at price versus cost, specifically on fiberglass, how has that been running third, fourth quarter? Is it a health hindrance at this point?

好的。對此感到抱歉。我不確定發生了什麼事。 ——我的問題。如果我們看看價格與成本，特別是玻璃纖維，第三、第四季的情況如何？此時是否有健康障礙？

I would say it's fairly neutral. I would say maybe slightly negative, but neutral to slightly negative.

我想說這是相當中立的。我想說可能有點負面，但中性到輕微負面。

Is that something that's going to continue through the winter months?

這種情況會持續整個冬天嗎？

Yes. I would say that the third quarter reflected the negative aspect of the price cost there. So yes, it would continue, but it's similar to what we experienced in the third quarter.

是的。我想說，第三季反映了價格成本的負面影響。所以是的，這種情況會繼續下去，但這與我們在第三季經歷的情況類似。

Mike Dahl, RBC Capital Markets.

麥克·達爾，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場部。

Yes, the first one is actually just to follow-up on that. Can you talk us through kind of the cadence through the quarter of the spray foam pricing dynamic and given your exit rate into kind of October? Is it still -- should we be thinking about similar impact in 4Q? Or did it decline through the quarter such that the run rate impact in 4Q is still going to be a little bit greater than what you saw in 3Q?

是的，第一個其實只是後續行動。您能否向我們介紹一下噴霧泡沫定價動態的季度節奏，並考慮到 10 月的退出率？我們是否仍應該考慮第四季度的類似影響？或者它是否在整個季度有所下降，以至於第四季度的運行率影響仍然會比第三季度的影響更大一些？

Yes, we'll still have a similar impact in the fourth quarter.

是的，我們在第四季仍然會產生類似的影響。

Okay. And similar question on the distribution investments as you think about kind of ramping those. I know they're going to continue, but in terms of order of magnitude, thinking about 4Q or into '25, is it similar order of magnitude? Or is there going to be an incremental ramp there?

好的。當你考慮增加這些投資時，還有關於分銷投資的類似問題。我知道他們會繼續下去，但就數量級而言，想想第四季或進入 25 年，數量級是否相似？或者那裡會出現增量斜坡嗎？

It won't be a significant incremental ramp, but it will slowly increase as we continue to add more points where we can gain efficiencies in this internal sourcing. So it will be lifting G&A. But at the same time, we should be getting benefit from a cost of goods sold perspective because we're gaining, again, benefit from sourcing internally as opposed to externally sourcing some of the materials that we need.

這不會是一個顯著的增量，但隨著我們繼續添加更多可以提高內部採購效率的點，它會慢慢增加。所以它將提高一般行政費用。但同時，我們應該從銷售成本的角度獲益，因為我們再次從內部採購中獲益，而不是從外部採購我們需要的一些材料。

Jeffrey Stevenson, Loop Capital Markets.

傑弗裡·史蒂文森，Loop 資本市場。

So commercial organic sales increased 6% after you saw year-over-year end market declines last quarter. And just wondered, was this more a function of a tough second quarter comp? Or did you see any sequential improvement in commercial demand? And then can you talk as well about whether there's been any negative impacts from project delays in either your lighter -- heavy commercial businesses?

因此，在上個季度終端市場年減後，商業有機銷售額成長了 6%。只是想知道，這更多是因為第二季的比賽比較艱難嗎？或者您看到商業需求有任何持續改善？然後您能否談談專案延誤是否對您的輕型或重型商業業務產生了負面影響？

So as I think we mentioned on previous calls we were in -- we had been previously struggling with the performance of our heavy commercial business, but that we have kind of gotten it back to the point where it's both gross margin and EBITDA performance is acceptable to us again. And as a consequence, we've given them the green light to go ahead and start increasing revenue at these higher margin levels. And really, what you're seeing is the benefit associated with that.

因此，正如我認為我們在之前的電話會議中提到的那樣，我們之前一直在努力應對重型商業業務的業績，但我們已經恢復到毛利率和 EBITDA 業績都可以接受的水平再次給我們。因此，我們為他們開了綠燈，開始以更高的利潤水準增加收入。事實上，您所看到的是與之相關的好處。

And it is really -- the growth in commercial was primarily driven by the heavy commercial business. The light commercial business, as we've talked in previous quarters, continues to be soft. And we expect that to be the case as we go through the rest of this year. And certainly, we would expect it to, the light commercial business that is, be on very good footing in the back half of next year, but it may continue to be a little weak in the first half of next year.

事實上，商業業務的成長主要是由繁重的商業業務所推動的。正如我們在前幾季所討論的，輕商業業務繼續疲軟。我們預計今年剩下的時間情況也會如此。當然，我們預期輕商業業務，即明年下半年的基礎非常好，但明年上半年可能會繼續有點疲軟。

But the heavy commercial business, and we have to shout out to the team there, they've just done an outstanding job of really improving that business and now starting to grow that business at a decent clip, but most importantly, at profit -- our profit expectations for that business. So we feel really good about the team there and the progress that they've made in actually fairly short order given the position that it had been in.

但是對於繁重的商業業務，我們必須向那裡的團隊大聲喊叫，他們剛剛做了出色的工作，真正改善了該業務，現在開始以不錯的速度發展該業務，但最重要的是，實現了盈利— —我們對該業務的利潤預期。因此，我們對那裡的團隊以及他們在相當短的時間內取得的進步感到非常滿意，考慮到他們所處的位置。

No, that's great to hear. And industry supply constraints have been brought up quite a bit here on the fiberglass side. Did it have any negative impact at all on your volume growth in the third quarter? And then can you talk about how you're positioned from an inventory perspective into the fourth quarter, given the ongoing supply constraints you're seeing?

不，很高興聽到這個消息。玻璃纖維方面的行業供應限制已經受到相當多的關注。這對你們第三季的銷售成長有任何負面影響嗎？然後，考慮到您所看到的持續供應限制，您能否從庫存角度談談您對第四季度的定位？

Yes. I don't -- I mean, despite our comments about the supply being tight, I mean, it wasn't to the point where we -- jobs went uncompleted as a result of material shortages. So I didn't mean to imply that necessarily. But -- so I don't really think that it had an impact in that regard.

是的。我不——我的意思是，儘管我們對供應緊張的評論，我的意思是，這還沒有達到我們——由於材料短缺而導致工作未完成的地步。所以我並不是有意暗示這一點。但是——所以我真的不認為它在這方面產生了影響。

And from an inventory perspective, I think this internal sourcing that we're doing is helping.

從庫存的角度來看，我認為我們正在進行的內部採購是有幫助的。

Yes.

是的。

We're doing a much better job of managing inventory internally and making sure that the right material gets to the right branches, which is helping alleviate the pressure that we would normally experience in an extremely tight environment like this.

我們在內部管理庫存方面做得更好，並確保正確的材料到達正確的分支機構，這有助於減輕我們在這種極其緊張的環境中通常會遇到的壓力。

Reuben Garner, The Benchmark Company.

魯本·加納，基準公司。

So, a couple of clarifications for me. Michael, I think you used the term normalization when discussing volume and price-mix. And I know the way you guys report it and the impact of multifamily can kind of have an outsized either benefit or hurt. Is there -- is the expectation that price-mix may actually show up negative at some point over the next 12 months as we kind of normalize demand between single-family and multifamily? Is that the normalization comment? If you could just clarify that, that would be helpful.

因此，請對我進行一些澄清。邁克爾，我認為您在討論數量和價格組合時使用了“標準化”一詞。我知道你們報告此事的方式以及多戶家庭的影響可能會帶來巨大的好處或傷害。隨著我們使單戶住宅和多戶住宅之間的需求正常化，價格組合是否可能在未來 12 個月的某個時候實際上出現負增長？這是正常化評論嗎？如果您能澄清這一點，那將會很有幫助。

Yes. As you know, what is sort of a headwind to price-mix are less multifamily and more production builder and more other products, right? And we see that trend -- we believe that trend will continue in the fourth quarter and as we go through certainly the first half of '25. And as a consequence, it will be a large headwind to price-mix.

是的。如您所知，價格組合的阻力是多戶型住宅的減少和生產建築商和其他產品的增加，對嗎？我們看到了這種趨勢——我們相信這種趨勢將在第四季度持續下去，並且在我們經歷25年上半年時肯定會持續下去。因此，這將成為價格組合的一大阻力。

Okay. And then I don't believe we've heard or seen any price increases announced from the manufacturers yet for fiberglass in early '25, at least not in the US. Can you just talk about -- remind us, it's been a while since that's been the case, I think and maybe that'll change. But if they were not to announce one for January, can you just talk about your discussions with customers, how offsetting other inflationary pressures work in your negotiations? I know that you're pricing a job and not necessarily just the material. But if you could kind of walk us through what that would look like in that scenario, that would be helpful.

好的。然後我認為我們還沒有聽到或看到製造商在 25 年初宣布玻璃纖維價格上漲，至少在美國沒有。你能否談談——提醒我們，這種情況已經有一段時間了，我想也許這種情況會改變。但如果他們不宣布一月份的消息，您能否談談您與客戶的討論，在談判中如何抵消其他通膨壓力？我知道您對工作進行定價，而不一定只是對材料進行定價。但如果您能向我們介紹一下在這種情況下會是什麼樣子，那將會很有幫助。

Yes. So this is Jeff. So I have little doubt that the manufacturers will, in fact, seek a price increase. They typically don't announce any earlier than about six weeks from when the effective date and that's even slipped at this point, sometimes.

是的。這就是傑夫。因此，我毫不懷疑製造商實際上會尋求漲價。他們通常不會早於生效日期後六週左右宣布，有時甚至會在這一點上推遲。

But over the last number of price increases where it was delayed into more, slightly more than that. But generally speaking, call it, six weeks. So we're not yet past the time frame that wouldn't and couldn't result in an early next year price increase, not just the announcement, but even taking effect. So that's what I suspect.

但在最近幾次漲價中，價格上漲的幅度被推遲了，甚至略多於。但一般來說，稱為六週。因此，我們還沒有超過不會也不可能導致明年初價格上漲的時間框架，不僅是宣布，甚至生效。這就是我懷疑的。

It's still a healthy housing environment despite it being choppy at times and choppy in certain places. And so I anticipate that we'll be having conversations with builders and that is the backdrop, right, that we'd be facing material price increases potentially from the manufacturers and other inflationary pressures. And so then it's our job to work with our good customers and builders to come to a satisfactory solution for everybody.

儘管有時和某些地方不穩定，但它仍然是一個健康的住房環境。因此，我預計我們將與建築商進行對話，這就是我們將面臨製造商和其他通膨壓力可能帶來的材料價格上漲的背景。因此，我們的工作就是與我們的優質客戶和建築商合作，為每個人提供滿意的解決方案。

But this is what we do every day, every week, every month, every year.

但這就是我們每天、每週、每月、每年都會做的事情。

Kurt Yinger, D.A. Davidson.

庫爾特·英格，D.A.戴維森。

Just one for me. A lot of discussion, obviously, on gross margin and SG&A, but I wanted to kind of bring it back to EBITDA incrementals. And I was just curious what kind of external variables, internal focus areas you think will be kind of most important as you hopefully go out and deliver against kind of the long-term targets, maybe putting demand aside?

只給我一個。顯然，關於毛利率和銷售管理費用（SG&A）有很多討論，但我想把它帶回 EBITDA 增量。我只是很好奇，當您希望走出去並實現長期目標（也許將需求放在一邊）時，您認為哪種外部變數、內部重點領域將是最重要的？

Well, it continues to be -- I mean, we want to limit growth in G&A and continue to maintain gross margins in that sort of 32% to 34%. Obviously, we've been closer, as we talked earlier, to the 34% and continue to see good volume gains and good sales growth.

嗯，我的意思是，我們希望限制一般管理費用的成長，並繼續將毛利率維持在 32% 到 34% 的水平。顯然，正如我們之前所說，我們已經更接近 34%，並且繼續看到良好的銷售成長和銷售成長。

I mean that really is how you end up with the 20% to 25%. And ex the dispositions for the nine months, we're at the low end of our incremental target ranges, but still within the range. So we feel -- continue to feel very good that on a full year basis, looking at 20% to 25% is the right way to look at the incrementals from the organic same-branch business.

我的意思是，這確實是你最終得到 20% 到 25% 的結果。除去這九個月的處置情況，我們處於增量目標範圍的低端，但仍在該範圍內。因此，我們繼續感覺非常好，以全年為基礎，20% 至 25% 是看待有機同分業務增量的正確方法。

Ken Zener, Seaport Research Partners.

Ken Zener，海港研究合作夥伴。

What a quarter. It seems like you've been exceptionally disclosure oriented this morning, Michael, I must say.

多麼四分之一。我必須說，邁克爾，你今天早上似乎非常注重披露。

Is that good or bad?

這是好是壞？

No, I think it's exceptionally important at a time like this when we're having cross currents, right, on the macro related to rates, even though demand is there and it could be picking up and how inflation, i.e., gross margins are going to translate in that type of environment for a distributor installer, right? So I think it's exceptionally important. So I'm going to try going back at this gross margin question. It seemed to be the bulk of people's focus today.

不，我認為在這樣的時刻，當我們在與利率相關的宏觀方面出現分歧時，這一點尤其重要，即使需求存在並且可能會回升，以及通貨膨脹（即毛利率）的走向如何在這種環境中為經銷商安裝人員進行翻譯，對吧？所以我認為這是非常重要的。所以我將嘗試回到這個毛利率問題。這似乎是今天人們關注的焦點。

Your gross margins went down, 2016 into 2018, about 200 bps. That's about 29%, call it 150 bps, 29% to 28%. Can you walk us through at that time, what caused gross margin degradation? Because it seems like you're kind of happy, actually, 32% to 34%. You're at the high end right now, but it could be at 32% and you'd be okay with that. You wouldn't have any firearms.

2016 年到 2018 年，你們的毛利率下降了約 200 個基點。大約是 29%，稱之為 150 bps，29% 到 28%。您能否為我們介紹一下當時是什麼導致了毛利率下降？因為看起來你有點幸福，實際上，32% 到 34%。你現在處於高端，但也可能是 32%，你會接受的。你不會有任何槍支。

So could you just walk us through the last time you kind of saw that gross margin pressure exist in your business and if those are the factors that would be necessary, again?

那麼，您能否向我們介紹一下您上次看到您的業務存在毛利率壓力的情況，以及這些是否是必要的因素？

Yes. It was -- material was extremely tight because there was the fire at the Knauf facility. Was it Knauf?

是的。由於可耐福工廠發生火災，材料極為緊張。是可耐夫嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes. Sorry, it's been a while. A lot has happened since then. And -- yes, a lot has happened since then. And at the same time, the Fed was raising rates, right? And the current environment where rate buydowns are very prevalent did not exist. So there was tightening in the market. At the same time that there was increasing -- the manufacturers, quite frankly, were taking advantage of the situation, the tightness of the situation.

是的。抱歉，已經有一段時間了。從那時起發生了很多事情。而且——是的，從那時起發生了很多事情。與此同時，聯準會正在升息，對嗎？目前利率購買非常普遍的環境並不存在。因此市場出現緊縮。與此同時，坦白說，製造商正在利用這種情況的緊迫性。

And it was a unique period where we had an extended period of time between when we could align our pricing with our customers, with the cost increases that we were experiencing. But over time, we were able to get there. It just took longer because of the unique, unfortunate aspect of both a negative housing market and this catastrophic event happening at the same time.

這是一個獨特的時期，我們有很長一段時間可以根據客戶的價格調整我們的價格，但我們所經歷的成本增加了。但隨著時間的推移，我們能夠到達那裡。只是因為房地產市場低迷和同時發生的這一災難性事件具有獨特而不幸的一面，所以花了更長的時間。

Right. But tight supply exists today. Rates, the Fed -- .

正確的。但目前供應緊張。利率，聯準會——。

Yes. But there's a difference, Ken, between a tight supply environment and an almost emergency supply environment, right? Because -- .

是的。但肯，緊張的供應環境和幾乎緊急的供應環境之間是有區別的，對嗎？因為——。

Right. No, I agree, I agree.

正確的。不，我同意，我同意。

Yes. Because what happened when the Knauf plant went down is it caused tremendous panic buying. I would say that material is tight now, but there's not panic buying in the market at all. I mean, people might be a little more over inventoried than they normally would be, but that's been the case since '22, right?

是的。因為可耐福工廠倒閉時發生的事情引起了巨大的恐慌性購買。我想說現在材料很緊張，但市場上根本沒有恐慌性購買。我的意思是，人們的庫存可能比平常多一點，但自 22 年以來就是這種情況，對嗎？

Right.

正確的。

The demand that the fiberglass guys are seeing right now is reflective of the demand in the market. And, in our opinion, there's nothing extraordinary or unusual about that relative to the overall market demand.

玻璃纖維製造商現在看到的需求反映了市場的需求。而且，我們認為，相對於整體市場需求而言，這並沒有什麼特別或不尋常的地方。

Excellent. And then, Jeff -- Mr. Edwards, if you could illuminate us with some regional commentary. Since you guys are talking about the public builders their order rates have been like more flat year-over-year. Their inventory, while generally flat to up, has had a lot more completed specs.

出色的。然後，傑夫-愛德華茲先生，請您用一些地區性的評論來啟發我們。由於你們談論的是公共建築商，他們的訂單率比去年同期更加持平。他們的庫存雖然整體持平到上升，但規格卻更加完整。

So could you baseline, first, when you use the term large production builders, what percent of sales that is, units, sales, whatever you prefer? And then if you could kind of comment on the rising dispersion we're seeing amongst the different regions in the US because Tampa is different than Orlando, Dallas is different than Austin. But if you wouldn't mind dipping your thoughts into that bucket so we could perhaps understand how that impacts your margins as you see them and if not, why not?

那麼，首先，當您使用「大型生產製造商」一詞時，您能否確定銷售額的百分比是多少，即單位、銷售額，無論您喜歡什麼？然後，如果您可以對我們在美國不同地區之間看到的日益分散的情況發表評論，因為坦帕與奧蘭多不同，達拉斯與奧斯汀不同。但是，如果您不介意將您的想法放入這個桶中，以便我們也許可以了解這如何影響您的利潤，如果您不介意，為什麼不呢？

Yes, Michael has hit on a lot of that. But even before I do that, I was relatively speechless on that last question and I still am marveling at the fact that Michael is only a few months younger than I am and he could actually remember all of that.

是的，邁克爾已經談到了很多這樣的事情。但即使在我這樣做之前，我對最後一個問題也相對無言以對，而且我仍然驚訝於邁克爾只比我小幾個月，他居然能記住所有這些。

I think to answer, we've talked a lot about the larger production builders taking share in a lot of first-time homebuyer type product, the fact that they, in some instances, are nearly 100% spec. We had a conversation around that yesterday, which is -- has a lot of good aspects really to it for us and for them.

我想回答一下，我們已經討論了很多關於大型生產建築商在許多首次購房者類型產品中佔據份額的問題，事實上，在某些情況下，它們幾乎是 100% 規格的。昨天我們圍繞著這個問題進行了一次對話，這對我們和他們來說確實有很多好處。

As you might guess the smile per se still outperforms what we would deem kind of our Northeast region and our central region. In both cases, those two regions are probably heavier with the regional type builders than they are and then you are in the rest of the [smile]. So that's really where we've seen kind of pressure in terms of the geography. But -- and we don't see this trend necessarily abating anytime soon given what is expected, I guess, of rates and kind of given where the market is.

正如您可能猜到的那樣，微笑本身仍然優於我們認為的東北地區和中部地區。在這兩種情況下，這兩個區域可能比區域類型建構器更重，然後您就處於其餘區域[微笑]。所以這確實是我們在地理上看到的壓力。但是，考慮到利率的預期以及市場的狀況，我們認為這種趨勢不會很快減弱。

Yes. And I think as Jeff pointed out, I mean, right now, starts for the production builders or starts for single-family is more important than orders because of this shift towards spec homes, right? I mean, the percentage of spec homes for the production builders is, I believe, at the highest level it's ever been and that does not show up in orders, right.

是的。我認為，正如傑夫指出的那樣，我的意思是，現在，生產建築商的開工或單戶住宅的開工比訂單更重要，因為這種向規格住宅的轉變，對吧？我的意思是，我相信，生產建築商的規格住宅的百分比處於有史以來的最高水平，並且這不會出現在訂單中，對吧。

But it does show up in starts. So we've been -- well, we track all of the public builder information and track it up against our markets, track it up against our sales to them and everything. We do believe that right now, starts is a better indicator of what's going to get built than their backlog or their orders.

但它確實出現在開始時。因此，我們一直在跟踪所有公共建築商的信息，並根據我們的市場進行跟踪，根據我們對他們的銷售情況等進行跟踪。我們確實相信，目前，開工率比積壓訂單或訂單更能反映即將建設的項目。

We have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. I'd now like to turn the call back over to management for closing comments.

我們的問答環節已經結束。我現在想將電話轉回給管理層以徵求結束意見。

I'd just like to thank all of you for your questions and I look forward to our next quarterly call. Thank you.

我只想感謝大家提出的問題，並期待我們的下一次季度電話會議。謝謝。

This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time and we thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，我們感謝您的參與。