Hancock Whitney Corp (HWC) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Hancock Whitney Corporation's First Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this call is being recorded.

女士們先生們，美好的一天，歡迎來到漢考克惠特尼公司 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）提醒一下，此通話正在錄音中。

I would now like to introduce your host for today's conference, Kathryn Mistich, Investor Relations Manager. You may begin.

我現在想介紹今天會議的主持人，投資者關係經理 Kathryn Mistich。你可以開始了。

Thank you, and good afternoon. During today's call, we may make forward-looking statements. We would like to remind everyone to carefully review the safe harbor language that was published with the earnings release and presentation and in the company's most recent 10-K and 10-Q including the risks and uncertainties identified therein.

謝謝，下午好。在今天的電話會議中，我們可能會做出前瞻性陳述。我們想提醒大家仔細閱讀與收益發布和演示文稿一起發布的安全港語言以及公司最近的 10-K 和 10-Q，包括其中確定的風險和不確定性。

You should keep in mind that any forward-looking statements made by Hancock Whitney speak only as of the date on which they were made. As everyone understands, the current economic environment is rapidly evolving and changing. Hancock Whitney's ability to accurately project results or predict the effects of future plans or strategies or predict market or economic developments is inherently limited. We believe that the expectations reflected or implied by any forward-looking statements are based on reasonable assumptions, but are not guarantees of performance or results, and our actual results and performance could differ materially from those set forth in our forward-looking statements.

您應該記住，Hancock Whitney 所做的任何前瞻性陳述僅代表發表之日的情況。眾所周知，當前的經濟環境瞬息萬變。漢考克惠特尼準確預測結果或預測未來計劃或戰略的影響或預測市場或經濟發展的能力在本質上是有限的。我們認為，任何前瞻性陳述所反映或暗示的預期均基於合理的假設，但並非對業績或結果的保證，我們的實際結果和業績可能與我們的前瞻性陳述中所述存在重大差異。

Hancock Whitney undertakes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements, and you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements. Some of the remarks contain non-GAAP financial measures. You can find reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP measures in our earnings release and financial tables. The presentation slides included in our 8-K are also posted with the conference call webcast link on the Investor Relations website. We will reference some of these slides in today's call.

Hancock Whitney 不承擔更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述的義務，並且提醒您不要過分依賴此類前瞻性陳述。一些評論包含非 GAAP 財務措施。您可以在我們的收益發布和財務表格中找到與最具可比性的 GAAP 指標的對賬。我們的 8-K 中包含的演示幻燈片也與投資者關係網站上的電話會議網絡廣播鏈接一起發布。我們將在今天的電話會議中引用其中一些幻燈片。

Participating in today's call are John Hairston, President and CEO; Mike Achary, CFO; and Chris Ziluca, Chief Credit Officer.

參加今天電話會議的有總裁兼首席執行官 John Hairston；邁克·阿查里，首席財務官；和首席信貸官 Chris Ziluca。

I will now turn the call over to John Hairston.

我現在將把電話轉給 John Hairston。

Thanks, Kathryn. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. The first quarter of 2023 was a solid start to the year despite volatility within our industry launched by unique bank failures in early March. Despite all that noise, we've continued to maintain strong levels of liquidity, solid capital and a stable seasoned deposit base, well diversified among consumer, commercial and wealth clients as detailed on Page 6 of the investor deck.

謝謝，凱瑟琳。大家下午好。感謝您今天加入我們。儘管 3 月初獨特的銀行倒閉引發了我們行業的動盪，但 2023 年第一季度是今年的一個良好開端。儘管存在種種噪音，我們仍繼續保持強勁的流動性水平、穩固的資本和穩定的存款基礎，並在消費者、商業和財富客戶中實現多元化，詳見投資者平台第 6 頁。

Both linked quarter and since the bank failures the weekend of March 10, we have seen growth in total deposits, including core client segments. In fact, the majority of our growth in core client deposits came after March 10. For the quarter, core client deposits are up $234 million, of which $203 million was added post March 10. We had additional details in the deck that we believe show the strength and stability we have in our markets and among our client base.

無論是相關季度還是自 3 月 10 日週末銀行倒閉以來，我們都看到了包括核心客戶群在內的總存款的增長。事實上，我們核心客戶存款的大部分增長是在 3 月 10 日之後發生的。本季度，核心客戶存款增加了 2.34 億美元，其中 2.03 億美元是在 3 月 10 日之後增加的。我們在套牌中有更多我們認為顯示的細節我們在市場和客戶群中的實力和穩定性。

We have weathered many storms, both literally and figuratively, over 124 years and the name Hancock Whitney is synonymous with strength and stability in our footprint. We are pleased with deposit growth this quarter, though continued rate hikes coupled with the current banking environment and promotional CD pricing have resulted in a deposit remix to higher cost deposits. The remix has resulted in a higher-than-expected deposit beta for the quarter. However, our overall deposit portfolio remains seasoned, stable and well diversified. Details are included on Slides 6 and 7 of our earnings deck.

在 124 年的時間裡，無論是字面意義還是像徵意義，我們都經歷過許多風暴，Hancock Whitney 這個名字是我們足跡中力量和穩定性的代名詞。我們對本季度的存款增長感到滿意，儘管持續加息加上當前的銀行環境和促銷 CD 定價導致存款重新組合為更高成本的存款。重組導致本季度的存款貝塔值高於預期。然而，我們的整體存款組合仍然成熟、穩定且多元化。詳細信息包含在我們收益平台的幻燈片 6 和 7 中。

DDAs as a percentage of total deposits remained strong at 43%, well above prepandemic levels. Our portfolio is diverse with 43% consumer commercial and small business, 12% public funds, 7% wealth and only 2% brokered CDs. The brokered CDs were issued in late March as a precautionary measure only. And as of today, we don't anticipate needing to issue anymore. Uninsured deposits were 36% at the end of March, and we continue to offer varied ways for both consumers and businesses to further ensure their funds above current FDIC limits, while maintaining their primary deposit relationship with Hancock Whitney.

DDA 佔總存款的百分比保持在 43%，遠高於大流行前的水平。我們的投資組合多元化，包括 43% 的消費者商業和小型企業、12% 的公共基金、7% 的財富和僅 2% 的經紀 CD。經紀 CD 於 3 月下旬發行，僅作為預防措施。從今天開始，我們預計不再需要發行。 3 月底未投保存款佔 36%，我們繼續為消費者和企業提供多種方式，以進一步確保他們的資金高於當前 FDIC 限額，同時保持他們與 Hancock Whitney 的主要存款關係。

On Slide 8, we updated our liquidity metrics, again indicating a position of strength. With almost $20 billion in available sources of funds, we currently use less than $4 billion, much of which was drawn as precautionary during the height of volatility in March. So we sit with approximately $16 billion in net available sources of funds in the unlikely event of persistent volatility in our industry.

在幻燈片 8 中，我們更新了我們的流動性指標，再次表明了強勢地位。憑藉將近 200 億美元的可用資金來源，我們目前使用的資金不到 40 億美元，其中大部分資金是在 3 月份動盪高峰期間作為預防措施提取的。因此，我們擁有大約 160 億美元的淨可用資金來源，以應對我們行業不太可能發生的持續波動。

Moving on to capital. On Slide 19, all of our capital measures have strengthened linked quarter despite the precautionary leverage noted earlier. The 36 basis point impact of leverage added at quarter-end somewhat offset the benefit from a solid earnings result for the quarter, which should gradually reverse itself as headline volatility declines.

轉向資本。在幻燈片 19 中，儘管前面提到了預防性槓桿，但我們所有的資本措施都加強了相關季度。季度末槓桿增加 36 個基點的影響在一定程度上抵消了本季度穩健的盈利結果帶來的好處，隨著總體波動性下降，這種情況應該會逐漸逆轉。

We do note the first quarter in a while where we and many peers benefited from OCI impact to our TCE ratio. In summary, we are very mindful of the current operating environment and the macroeconomic trends, which may impact our industry. But as I just detailed, given our strong liquidity, our solid capital and stable seasoned, diverse and granular deposit base, we believe we are well positioned for the environment.

我們確實注意到第一季度，我們和許多同行從 OCI 對我們的 TCE 比率的影響中受益。總之，我們非常注意當前的經營環境和宏觀經濟趨勢，這可能會影響我們的行業。但正如我剛才所詳述的那樣，鑑於我們強大的流動性、穩固的資本和穩定的經驗豐富、多樣化和精細的存款基礎，我們相信我們在環境方面處於有利地位。

With that, I'll turn the call to Mike for further comments.

有了這個，我會把電話轉給邁克以徵求進一步的意見。

Thanks, John. Good afternoon, everyone. The first quarter was a solid quarter with net income of $126 million and EPS of $1.45 per share. The results were down a bit from last quarter, driven primarily by a 13 basis point narrowing of our NIM resulting from the continued remix of deposits and higher overall deposit cost. Even so, deposit growth was strong this quarter at $543 million, with increases in core client deposits and brokered CDs, partly offset by typical seasonal runoff in our public fund deposit book.

謝謝，約翰。大家下午好。第一季度表現穩健，淨收入為 1.26 億美元，每股收益為 1.45 美元。結果比上一季度略有下降，這主要是由於存款的持續重組和更高的總體存款成本導致我們的 NIM 收窄了 13 個基點。即便如此，本季度存款增長強勁，達到 5.43 億美元，核心客戶存款和經紀 CD 的增長部分被我們公共基金存款簿中典型的季節性徑流所抵消。

Going forward, we recognize that deposit growth will be a challenge for the remainder of the year, really for all banks. Clients continue to be rate-sensitive resulting in a continued shift in the mix of deposits from DDA to higher-cost deposits, mostly CDs. That dynamic will likely continue for as long as rates are elevated.

展望未來，我們認識到存款增長將是今年剩餘時間的挑戰，對所有銀行來說都是如此。客戶繼續對利率敏感，導致存款組合繼續從 DDA 轉向成本更高的存款，主要是 CD。只要利率上升，這種動態可能會持續下去。

Given the current environment, we believe our NIM will likely compress again in the second quarter and then potentially stabilize over the second half of the year. That's based on an environment where the Fed raises rates again in May then backs off from any additional rate hikes for the balance of the year. Slides 15 and 16 in the earnings deck provide additional details related to NIM in our interest rate sensitivity.

鑑於目前的環境，我們認為我們的 NIM 可能會在第二季度再次壓縮，然後可能在下半年穩定下來。這是基於美聯儲在 5 月再次加息然後在今年餘下時間不再加息的環境。收益幻燈片中的幻燈片 15 和 16 在我們的利率敏感性中提供了與 NIM 相關的更多詳細信息。

Details around our securities portfolio can be found on Slide 14. The portfolio is, as always, conservative in composition and mostly invested in safe residential and commercial mortgage-backed securities. As noted last quarter, we used the runoff in the bond portfolio of about $125 million to partially fund the quarter's loan growth. We continue to have hedges in place to help reduce OCI volatility and provide flexibility in a changing rate environment.

有關我們證券投資組合的詳細信息，請參見幻燈片 14。該投資組合一如既往地在構成上保持保守，並且主要投資於安全的住宅和商業抵押貸款支持證券。正如上個季度所述，我們使用約 1.25 億美元的債券投資組合決流資金為本季度的貸款增長提供部分資金。我們繼續實施對沖，以幫助降低 OCI 的波動性，並在不斷變化的利率環境中提供靈活性。

The details around our unrealized losses in both the AFS and HTM portfolios are noted at the bottom of the slide and have improved around 13% since last quarter. Given questions about the impact of unrealized losses from the bond portfolio on capital, we included a set of pro forma capital ratios that look at what those ratios must be if all unrealized losses were included in the calculations. You see that on Slide 20 in the earnings deck. The takeaway for us is that even after including all unrealized losses, we remain above well-capitalized levels, with common Tier 1 capital over 9%.

有關我們在 AFS 和 HTM 投資組合中未實現損失的詳細信息，請參見幻燈片底部，自上一季度以來已改善約 13%。鑑於有關債券投資組合未實現損失對資本的影響的問題，我們包括了一組備考資本比率，以查看如果所有未實現損失都包含在計算中，這些比率必須是多少。您可以在收益平台的幻燈片 20 上看到這一點。對我們而言，即使包括所有未實現的虧損，我們的資本水平仍高於充足水平，普通一級資本超過 9%。

Taking into account the current rate environment, updated forecast around future rate hikes and higher deposit betas, we have adjusted our annual PPNR guidance, currently expecting increase somewhere between 3% and 7% for 2023 compared to 2022. You'll see that updated guidance on Slide 21 of the deck.

考慮到當前的利率環境、對未來加息的最新預測和更高的存款貝塔係數，我們調整了年度 PPNR 指導，目前預計 2023 年與 2022 年相比增長 3% 至 7%。您會看到更新後的指導在甲板的幻燈片 21 上。

Loan growth was in line with expectations at just under $300 million or 5% linked quarter annualized. The onetime closed product in the mortgage lending portfolio was again a driver of the growth in the quarter, coupled with an increase in CRE income-producing loans. This increase is mainly related to the movement of loans from the construction phase to permanent financing at completion. We continue to limit our growth in CRE and have provided additional information on Slide 10.

貸款增長符合預期，略低於 3 億美元或 5% 的相關季度年化率。抵押貸款組合中曾經關閉的產品再次成為本季度增長的驅動力，同時 CRE 創收貸款的增加。這一增長主要與貸款從建設階段轉移到完工時的永久融資有關。我們繼續限制 CRE 的增長，並在幻燈片 10 上提供了更多信息。

A quick comment on credit. The increase in net charge-offs was driven by a handful of small charge-offs and a lower level of recoveries compared to the fourth quarter. We continue to operate from low levels of commercial criticized and nonaccrual loans, both relatively stable this quarter, and our ACO remained strong at 146 basis points. Fee income improved this quarter with wealth and specialty income, key drivers of the increase. As a reminder, this is the first full quarter for the previously announced elimination of certain consumer NSF and OD fees and service charges. Expenses were up linked quarter, but in line with guidance we provided last quarter.

對信用的快速評論。與第四季度相比，少量小額註銷和較低的回收率推動了淨註銷的增加。我們繼續從低水平的商業不良貸款和非應計貸款中運營，這兩個貸款在本季度都相對穩定，我們的 ACO 保持在 146 個基點的強勁水平。本季度費用收入有所改善，財富和專業收入是增長的主要驅動因素。提醒一下，這是先前宣布取消某些消費者 NSF 和 OD 費用和服務費的第一個完整季度。費用在本季度有所上升，但與我們上個季度提供的指導一致。

As detailed on Slide 18, other noninterest expense was the biggest category of the increase. With the higher level of expenses and compression in NIM, we ended the first quarter with an efficiency ratio of 53.8%. In today's environment with higher deposit costs and elevated rates, we feel that the work done in prior years to produce a more efficient company continues to serve us well. We will continue to strive to deliver peer-best earnings at efficiency ratio levels below 55%.

如幻燈片 18 所詳述，其他非利息支出是增長的最大類別。由於 NIM 的支出和壓縮水平較高，我們以 53.8% 的效率比率結束了第一季度。在當今存款成本和利率較高的環境中，我們認為前幾年為打造一家更有效率的公司所做的工作繼續為我們服務。我們將繼續努力以低於 55% 的效率水平提供同行最佳收益。

I will now turn the call back to John.

我現在將電話轉回給約翰。

Thanks, Mike. And moderator, if we could, let's open the call for questions.

謝謝，邁克。主持人，如果可以的話，讓我們開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Catherine Mealor with KBW.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 KBW 的 Catherine Mealor。

I wanted to maybe start with the margin. And I guess this is the million dollar question, but you're trying to see how much deposit mix shift you're expecting over the course of the year. We saw a big mix shift out of noninterest-bearing and into CDs. As you look at your PPNR guide, how do you -- how are you envisioning today where you think NIBs should bottom and then where CDs should eventually get to?

我想也許從保證金開始。我想這是一個價值百萬美元的問題，但您正試圖了解您期望在一年中發生多少存款組合變化。我們看到大量組合從無息債券轉向定期存單。當您查看 PPNR 指南時，您如何看待今天您認為 NIB 應該觸底的位置以及 CD 最終應該到達的位置？

Yes. Hi, Catherine. It's Mike. So in terms of our deposit mix, again, at the end of the first quarter, we were at 43% noninterest bearing. If we kind of think about the rate environment and where we are is we see the Fed potentially raising rates another 25 basis points and then kind of going flat for the balance of the year. So under that scenario, we see that 43% probably trending towards somewhere in the 38%, 39% range by the end of this year. So as a reminder, prepandemic, so call it, fourth quarter of '19, we were at 37%. So I do think a year from now, we'll probably be at that level or pretty close to it.

是的。嗨，凱瑟琳。是邁克。因此，就我們的存款組合而言，在第一季度末，我們的無息存款比例為 43%。如果我們考慮一下利率環境和我們所處的位置，我們會看到美聯儲可能將利率再提高 25 個基點，然後在今年餘下時間保持利率不變。因此，在這種情況下，我們看到 43% 可能會在今年年底趨向於 38%、39% 的範圍內。因此，提醒一下，在 19 年第四季度，大流行前，也就是 37%。所以我確實認為一年後，我們可能會達到或非常接近那個水平。

Great. Okay. And is there -- and I feel like as the industry were generally going back to prepandemic levels with that mix shift, is there any reason -- or what's the case to be made that we won't go below prepandemic deposit mix shift?

偉大的。好的。有沒有——我覺得這個行業通常會隨著這種混合轉變而回到大流行前的水平，有什麼理由——或者我們不會低於大流行前存款混合轉變的情況是什麼？

Well, I think for us, we've done a lot of work during the pandemic year, a lot of activity around the PPP process, and I think have brought on to our balance sheet an awful lot of good core customers. And again, a lot of those customers have operating accounts with us, and that helps to make a case for, I think, the noninterest-bearing mix potentially going no lower than where it was when we started.

好吧，我認為對我們來說，我們在大流行年做了很多工作，圍繞 PPP 流程開展了大量活動，我認為已經為我們的資產負債錶帶來了很多優秀的核心客戶。再一次，很多客戶在我們這裡有經營賬戶，我認為這有助於證明無息組合可能不會低於我們開始時的水平。

But look, that's a hard thing to predict, and I don't think anybody has a crystal ball in that regard. And a big assumption is what I described earlier around our view of what the Fed could possibly do. If they do something materially different than that, then obviously, that could change that ultimate outcome.

但是看，這是一件很難預測的事情，而且我認為在這方面沒有人有水晶球。一個很大的假設是我之前圍繞我們對美聯儲可能採取的行動的看法所描述的。如果他們做一些與此截然不同的事情，那麼很明顯，這可能會改變最終結果。

Yes, of course, it's helpful to hear the way you're thinking about that. Thank you, Mike. Go ahead, John.

是的，當然，聽聽您的想法很有幫助。謝謝你，邁克。去吧，約翰。

Catherine, this is John. The only thing I'll add to it is, for several years, we focused on improving granularity in the loan portfolio and the place that we're adding bankers the most right now, given that we're obviously out of the liquidity deployment business, and we're in the funding core loan growth with core deposit growth. So the types of bankers we're adding are primarily in the smaller business purpose segments, and those segments typically fund between $1.5 and $2 of liquidity per $1 of credit.

凱瑟琳，這是約翰。我要補充的唯一一件事是，多年來，我們一直專注於提高貸款組合的粒度以及我們現在增加銀行家最多的地方，因為我們顯然不在流動性部署業務中，我們正在為核心貸款增長和核心存款增長提供資金。因此，我們要添加的銀行家類型主要在較小的業務目的細分市場，這些細分市場通常每 1 美元信貸提供 1.5 美元至 2 美元的流動資金。

And so the more successful we are -- and right now that's going very well. In fact, that's the fastest-growing segment of our deposit book. So the faster we can grow that, the better chance we have of staying above or where we ended up before and certainly trying to stay no worse than at the same level where we're at prepandemic. So it's a focus area for us. And hopefully, we'll see some good results as we move through the years, similar to what we had happened in Q1.

所以我們越成功——現在進展順利。事實上，這是我們存款簿中增長最快的部分。因此，我們增長得越快，我們就越有可能保持在之前的水平或之前的水平，並且肯定會努力保持不比大流行前的水平差。所以這是我們的重點領域。希望隨著這些年的發展，我們會看到一些好的結果，就像我們在第一季度發生的那樣。

And then a follow-up on the margin. Is it -- if we look at your PPNR guide, is it fair to assume that we can expect the NII dollars to be down every quarter for the rest of the year? It's hard -- this quarter was down, but there is the day count that does impact that, but you are guiding for the margin to be lower next quarter. So just trying to think about how you're thinking about dollar NII in the back half of the year.

然後是保證金的後續行動。是嗎 - 如果我們查看您的 PPNR 指南，假設我們可以預期 NII 美元在今年剩餘時間裡每個季度都會下降，這是否公平？這很難——這個季度有所下降，但天數確實會影響到這一點，但你正在指導下個季度的利潤率會降低。所以只是想想想你在今年下半年是如何考慮美元 NII 的。

Yes. I think the first thing is if you look at our PPNR guidance, and obviously we also give guidance, pretty explicit guidance, on fees and expenses, it implies NII growth of somewhere between 6% or 7% year-over-year. So given that we do expect some margin compression in the second quarter, we would expect NII to, accordingly, be down some quarter-over-quarter. But then at that point, I think that it kind of flattens out as we go through the second half of the year, again, based on the rate assumption we described earlier.

是的。我認為第一件事是，如果你看看我們的 PPNR 指南，顯然我們也提供了關於費用和支出的指南，非常明確的指南，這意味著 NII 同比增長 6% 或 7%。因此，鑑於我們確實預計第二季度利潤率會有所壓縮，我們預計 NII 將相應地環比下降一些。但在那一點上，我認為隨著我們進入今年下半年，它會趨於平緩，再次基於我們之前描述的利率假設。

Your next question comes from Michael Rose with Raymond James.

你的下一個問題來自 Michael Rose 和 Raymond James。

Certainly understand the FHLB build, Mike, if you can just give us a sense for how long you might expect that to maybe stick around and maybe what the term is on that. Just trying to get a sense for impacts on the average balances, things like that.

當然了解 FHLB 構建，邁克，如果你能告訴我們你可能希望它能堅持多久，也許它的術語是什麼。只是想了解對平均餘額的影響，諸如此類。

Sure, I'd be glad to, Mike. So the liquidity that we added to the balance sheet late quarter, again, was about $1.2 billion in home loan advances. Those advances were really split into a 30-day piece and a 45-day piece. For the most part, all priced at just a little bit north of 5% and then, of course, we added the brokered CDs as we mentioned earlier. So you're right. I mean the big question is how long do we keep that extra liquidity on the balance sheet.

當然，我很樂意，邁克。因此，我們在季度末添加到資產負債表的流動性再次約為 12 億美元的房屋貸款預付款。這些預付款實際上分為 30 天和 45 天。大多數情況下，所有產品的價格都略高於 5%，當然，我們還添加了我們之前提到的經紀 CD。所以你是對的。我的意思是，最大的問題是我們要在資產負債表上保留多長時間的額外流動性。

And the shorter answer is we'll keep it for as long as it takes to kind of get through any potential period of additional stability if that happens in the banking environment going forward. I do think, though, that when it's all said and done on a go-forward basis, we'll probably keep a little bit extra liquidity going forward than we probably did before, let's say, March 10. How much that ends up being, again, it really just kind of depends on what the environment looks like.

更簡短的答案是，如果未來銀行業環境發生這種情況，我們會一直保留它，以度過任何潛在的額外穩定期。不過，我確實認為，當一切都在前進的基礎上說和做的時候，我們可能會保持比以前多一點的流動性，比方說，3 月 10 日。最終有多少，同樣，它真的只是有點取決於環境的樣子。

Perfect. Appreciate that color, Mike. Maybe one for Chris. I noticed that the nonaccrual loans picked up just a little bit. Just -- I know we're going off a really low base here, but any sort of discernible trends because it looks like criticized classified was down. So just trying to get some color there.

完美的。欣賞那種顏色，邁克。也許一個給克里斯。我注意到非應計貸款略有增加。只是 - 我知道我們在這裡的基數非常低，但任何可辨別的趨勢，因為它看起來像批評分類下降。所以只是想在那裡獲得一些顏色。

Yes. No worries, Michael. Thanks for the question. Yes, I mean, as you pointed out, we really are operating at a relatively low base. I mean it really is at historical low levels. And so any sort of movement in nonaccruals may seem significant. But realistically, it was just really one account that we've been -- one major account, if you want to call that, that we've been following for probably a year now where we've been kind of working through a strategy to recast the loan. And in the process, we had to move it into nonaccrual, but not a real significant issue in our nonaccruals.

是的。別擔心，邁克爾。謝謝你的問題。是的，我的意思是，正如您所指出的，我們確實在一個相對較低的基數上運營。我的意思是它確實處於歷史低位。因此，非應計項目的任何形式的變動似乎都很重要。但實際上，我們實際上只是一個客戶——一個主要客戶，如果你想這麼稱呼的話，我們已經關注了大約一年，我們一直在通過一種策略來努力重鑄貸款。在這個過程中，我們不得不將其轉移到非應計項目中，但在我們的非應計項目中並不是一個真正重要的問題。

Our next question comes from Kevin Fitzsimmons with D.A. Davidson.

我們的下一個問題來自 D.A. 的 Kevin Fitzsimmons。戴維森。

Just with the -- I appreciate the guide on margin and NII. Is it fair -- given the steps taken and how late in the quarter it was on boosting liquidity, the brokered CDs, the FHLB, while we still have ongoing the DDA shift, is it fair to expect that the continuation of percentage margin compression in the second quarter would be more substantial than what you saw in the first quarter? Is that a fair assumption?

只是 - 我很欣賞關於保證金和 NII 的指南。這是否公平 - 考慮到所採取的措施以及本季度在提高流動性、經紀 CD、FHLB 方面所採取的措施以及在我們仍在進行 DDA 轉變的同時，是否可以公平地預期百分比保證金壓縮在第二季度會比你在第一季度看到的更多嗎？這是一個公平的假設嗎？

Kevin, this is Mike. Not necessarily. I do think that the margin compression that we are looking at potentially for the second quarter is probably somewhere around the magnitude of what we saw in the first quarter compared to the fourth quarter. So I don't know that it will be necessarily more than the 13 basis points, but probably somewhere in that neighborhood.

凱文，這是邁克。不必要。我確實認為，與第四季度相比，我們在第二季度可能看到的利潤率壓縮可能與我們在第一季度看到的幅度相當。所以我不知道它一定會超過 13 個基點，但可能在那個附近的某個地方。

So Mike, can you just go through some of the puts and takes on that because just -- definitely liquidity and stability of the balance sheet is a top priority, and I recognize the steps you took. But it seems like, is there more loan repricing coming? Or is it -- I'm just trying to think of the positive offsets to more of the wholesale and brokered funding?

所以邁克，你能否通過一些看跌期權並接受它，因為資產負債表的流動性和穩定性絕對是重中之重，我認識到你採取的步驟。但看起來，是否會有更多的貸款重新定價？或者是——我只是想考慮對更多批發和經紀資金的積極抵消？

Yes. Well, I think some of it is, I don't know necessarily we have built into the second quarter forecast the same $2.9 billion of excess liquidity. So that does come down a little bit as we go through the second quarter. And again, as I mentioned earlier, whether we keep it at the current level, bring it down a little bit or bring it down significantly is really just going to depend on the operating environment.

是的。好吧，我認為其中一些是，我不知道我們是否一定在第二季度預測了同樣的 29 億美元流動性過剩。因此，隨著我們進入第二季度，這確實有所下降。再一次，正如我之前提到的，我們是將其保持在當前水平，將其降低一點還是大幅降低，這實際上取決於操作環境。

The other things, I think, certainly, it could be helpful as we think about the second quarter NIM is we have built into our forecast the Fed raising rates another 25 basis points. So there's some beneficial impact of that related to our variable rate loans. We received a nice cumulative impact from the overall repricing of all of our fixed rate loans. So there's a slide in the deck that talks about the yields that we're getting in terms of loans due to the balance sheet. So for the fixed rate loans, that's nearly 6.5% and that's not insignificant and continues to build kind of on a cumulative basis going forward.

其他事情，我認為，當然，當我們考慮第二季度 NIM 時，我們已經將美聯儲加息 25 個基點納入我們的預測中。因此，這與我們的可變利率貸款有關，有一些有益的影響。我們從所有固定利率貸款的整體重新定價中獲得了很好的累積影響。因此，甲板上有一張幻燈片討論了我們因資產負債表而獲得的貸款收益率。因此，對於固定利率貸款，這接近 6.5%，這並不是微不足道的，並且在未來繼續累積。

The other thing is we have pretty attractive CD pricing being offered right now. And I think, again, depending on the amount of stability we have in the environment, we're likely maybe to come off some of that. So those are all things that I think will help and build the case a little bit for the NIM not narrowing much more than it did in the first quarter.

另一件事是我們現在提供非常有吸引力的 CD 定價。我再次認為，取決於我們在環境中的穩定性，我們可能會擺脫其中的一些。因此，這些都是我認為會有所幫助的事情，並為 NIM 提供一點理由，而不是比第一季度收窄得多。

Okay. Very helpful. Just thinking about the percentage of DDA and where that settles and if it comes down to the high 30s. Do you -- you kind of mentioned year-end, do you think assuming the Fed has one more move to go, does that pace -- like it continues that mix shift, but at a diminishing pace over the balance of the year is your best guess?

好的。很有幫助。只需考慮 DDA 的百分比及其穩定的位置，以及它是否下降到 30 多歲。你——你提到過年末，你認為假設美聯儲還有一個動作要走，那麼這個步伐——就像它繼續這種混合轉變一樣，但在今年餘下的時間裡，你的步伐會越來越慢嗎？最佳的揣測？

Yes, absolutely. I think that remix of deposits will continue as we go through the year. If the Fed does raise rates one more time and then goes to the sidelines, then I do think that remix has the potential to slow a little bit from the levels that we saw in the last couple of quarters.

是的，一點沒錯。我認為，隨著我們度過這一年，存款的重新組合將繼續下去。如果美聯儲真的再次加息，然後袖手旁觀，那麼我確實認為，重新組合有可能從我們在過去幾個季度看到的水平略微放緩。

Kevin, this is John. Just one thing to add to the algebra, as the account balances move from the pandemic highs to the prepandemic norms, which seem to be on track for both consumer and business purpose accounts for the middle of 2024, there's a bit less money that would be set aside in chunks inside CDs because people don't think they're going to need it for a period of time. So even though consumer spending is strong, the types of spending is more necessities versus large ticket items like it was in the last couple of years.

凱文，這是約翰。只需在代數中添加一件事，隨著賬戶餘額從大流行高點轉移到大流行前標準，到 2024 年年中，消費者和商業目的賬戶似乎都走上正軌，可用於支付的錢會少一些在 CD 中成塊放置，因為人們認為他們在一段時間內不會需要它。因此，儘管消費者支出強勁，但支出類型更多是必需品，而不是像過去幾年那樣的大件商品。

So there's a likelihood that people put less money into CDs over the course of the next 4 to 6 quarters that occur in the past 4 to 6 months, if that makes sense. So there would be some natural pace simply because the degree of excess goes away. And so the closer we get to norm, the closer we get to norm in all matters of the balance sheet. I hope that makes sense.

因此，如果合理的話，在過去 4 到 6 個月的接下來的 4 到 6 個季度中，人們可能會減少向 CD 投入的資金。因此，僅僅因為過度程度消失，就會有一些自然的步伐。因此，我們越接近常態，我們在資產負債表的所有事項上就越接近常態。我希望這是有道理的。

The other driver is, as rates go up and revolving line cost goes up, excess liquidity seems to find its way towards paying down that debt. I mean why have it sit in the bank if you can use it to decrease your cost, right? So as you saw for the first time in really about 2 years, we saw a decrease in line utilization and that's predominantly coming from people using the remaining excess liquidity to pay down debt.

另一個驅動因素是，隨著利率上升和循環線路成本上升，過剩流動性似乎找到了償還債務的途徑。我的意思是，如果你可以用它來降低成本，為什麼要把它放在銀行里，對吧？因此，正如您在大約 2 年內第一次看到的那樣，我們看到線路利用率下降，這主要來自人們使用剩餘的過剩流動性來償還債務。

So those 2 things, I think, are a little outsized based on the poking of the rate there, so to speak, by the Fed's pace of interest rate increases. So as they slow and as the account sizes normalize, we should see some degree of mitigation in the pace that we're seeing migrate from NIB to something else. Hopefully, that makes sense.

因此，我認為，根據美聯儲加息步伐的利率刺激，這兩件事有點過大。因此，隨著它們變慢以及賬戶規模正常化，我們應該看到從 NIB 遷移到其他東西的速度有所緩解。希望這是有道理的。

Our next question comes from Brandon King with Truist.

我們的下一個問題來自 Brandon King 和 Truist。

Yes. So I wanted to ask a question on the capital. Capital levels are pretty strong here and have grown as much. So are there any thoughts to any share repurchases or getting more aggressive with the buyback, just given where the stock is trading at?

是的。所以我想問一個關於首都的問題。這裡的資本水平相當強勁，而且增長了很多。那麼，考慮到股票的交易價格，是否有任何股票回購或更積極地回購的想法？

Brandon, this is Mike. Good question. And really, our stance and how we think about or look at buybacks really haven't changed. We remain opportunistic in terms of looking at that. As you probably know, the buyback authority was re-upped this past January. So that's 5% really through the end of next year. Having said all of that, we really haven't bought back many shares in the last quarter or so. And certainly for the coming quarter, and really for the foreseeable future right now, I don't see us buying back a whole lot in the way of shares.

布蘭登，這是邁克。好問題。實際上，我們的立場以及我們對回購的看法或看法確實沒有改變。就此而言，我們仍然持機會主義態度。您可能知道，今年 1 月重新提高了回購權限。所以到明年年底，這實際上是 5%。說了這麼多，我們在上個季度左右確實沒有回購很多股票。當然，對於下一個季度，實際上在可預見的未來，我認為我們不會以股票的方式回購大量股票。

We take the stance right now that with so much uncertainty out there, it's probably better just to continue to build capital in this environment. As those conditions change, I mean, obviously, we'll reassess and there's opportunity to be a little bit more active in terms of buybacks. That's certainly something we'll consider as we go through the year.

我們現在的立場是，由於存在如此多的不確定性，在這種環境下繼續積累資本可能會更好。隨著這些條件的變化，我的意思是，很明顯，我們將重新評估，並且有機會在回購方面更加積極一些。這肯定是我們在這一年中會考慮的事情。

Makes sense. And then I had a follow-up to the net interest margin discussion. Do you mind sharing what the NIM was for March? I know there's a lot of actions that happened late in the quarter.

說得通。然後我對淨息差討論進行了跟進。您介意分享 3 月份的 NIM 是什麼嗎？我知道本季度末發生了很多行動。

Yes. So the -- good question. The NIM for March, I don't have that right with me. Certainly don't mind sharing it, but -- while we're looking for that, certainly, one of the things that's impacting the NIM in the month of March is our cost of deposit. So as the quarter went on, that went up to 107 basis points. So that's certainly going to impact the NIM.

是的。所以 - 好問題。三月份的 NIM，我沒有那個權利。當然不介意分享它，但是 - 當我們正在尋找它時，當然，影響 3 月份 NIM 的事情之一是我們的存款成本。因此，隨著本季度的進行，上升到 107 個基點。所以這肯定會影響 NIM。

Okay. I can follow up with you off-line. And then just...

好的。我可以離線跟進你。然後就...

We'll get back to you on that.

我們會就此回复您。

Okay. Okay.

好的。好的。

Our next question comes from Brett Rabatin with Hovde Group.

我們的下一個問題來自 Hovde Group 的 Brett Rabatin。

I wanted to ask 2 questions on the guidance. I guess first on the expenses. I wanted to make sure I was clear, the other bucket obviously included a couple of line items this quarter that were different, the FDIC assessment. Was there anything else unusual that might not be recurring in that line item going forward? And is that 1Q level a good level for maybe ongoing from here?

我想問兩個關於指導的問題。我想首先是費用。我想確保我清楚，另一個桶顯然包括本季度的幾個不同的項目，FDIC 評估。是否還有其他不尋常的事情可能不會在該訂單項中重複出現？ 1Q 水平是否適合從這裡繼續進行？

Yes, Brett. I think that the level in the fourth quarter -- in the first quarter, so the $200 million or so, is a pretty good run rate to use going forward. In terms of the categories and items that we called out and other expenses, really, except for the storm-related losses that we had in the prior quarter, pretty much everything else is kind of ongoing or built into the ongoing assumptions. Data processing is something that can move around a little bit from quarter-to-quarter. But given some of the technology investments and other things that we have going on related to that category, we do think that, that level will probably continue at somewhere near that going forward.

是的，布雷特。我認為第四季度的水平——第一季度，即 2 億美元左右，是一個相當不錯的運行率，可以用於未來。就我們召集的類別和項目以及其他費用而言，實際上，除了我們在上一季度遭受的與風暴相關的損失外，幾乎所有其他事情都在進行中或已納入正在進行的假設中。數據處理可能會在每個季度之間發生一些變化。但考慮到我們正在進行的與該類別相關的一些技術投資和其他事情，我們確實認為，該水平可能會繼續保持在接近該水平的某個地方。

Okay. And then in fee income, obviously, year-over-year, if you're going to have growth in that number, the quarters from here have to grow. Are there specific line items that you think might have higher propensity to grow from 1Q levels? Or any color on that?

好的。然後在費用收入方面，顯然，如果你要在這個數字上有所增長，那麼從這裡開始的季度就必須增長。您認為是否有特定的訂單項可能有更高的增長傾向從 1Q 水平？或者上面有什麼顏色？

Yes, sure. This is John. Thanks for the question on fees. There are a couple of things moving around in the year. One of those is for the December 1 forward, we did eliminate certain OD and NSF fees that we shared a lot of guidance on last year. And all of that happened. As average balances decline, the number of service charge recurring deposits goes up. And so what we saw happen in Q1, as expected, is the volume of normally recurring account maintenance fees is offsetting the decline that we experienced in the NSF. So that was helpful.

是的，當然。這是約翰。感謝您提出關於費用的問題。這一年有幾件事在發生變化。其中之一是針對 12 月 1 日的遠期，我們確實取消了我們在去年分享的大量指導中的某些 OD 和 NSF 費用。而這一切都發生了。隨著平均餘額下降，服務費定期存款的數量增加。因此，正如預期的那樣，我們在第一季度看到的情況是，通常經常性賬戶維護費用的數量正在抵消我們在 NSF 中經歷的下降。所以這很有幫助。

And then secondary mortgage, while it was green for the quarter, which was actually somewhat of a pleasant surprise, and as people lost a few -- just these little boomlets of production that occurred on a series of dates where the rates softened a little bit, we see a surge in production come through, and that was helpful for secondary mortgage. But the real star of the show the last several years and probably for the next couple of years outside of what happens with mortgage or any other type of regulatory engagement with fees would be the wealth-related items, which are the investment subsidiary trust fees and then also the fees that we enjoy from our card businesses.

然後是二級抵押貸款，雖然本季度是綠色的，但實際上有點令人驚喜，因為人們失去了一些——只是這些小的生產繁榮發生在一系列利率略微走軟的日期，我們看到產量激增，這對二次抵押貸款很有幫助。但在過去幾年以及未來幾年，除了抵押貸款或任何其他類型的監管費用之外，真正的明星將是與財富相關的項目，即投資子公司信託費用和然後還有我們從我們的卡業務中享受的費用。

And while the card fees weren't really very big compared to first quarter over fourth quarter on a year-to-year basis, they do continue to perform very well, and we're continuing to add people on the treasury sales side to move card-related products, particularly our purchasing cards. So I think the secret to get into the guidance of the 3% to 4% year-over-year will align how well we do in wealth, how well we do in card and a continuing offset of the OD/NSF decline in service charge buckets. Is that what you were looking for?

雖然與第一季度和第四季度相比，與去年同期相比，信用卡費用並不是很大，但它們的表現確實非常好，我們將繼續增加資金銷售方面的人員以轉移卡相關產品，尤其是我們的購物卡。因此，我認為進入 3% 至 4% 同比指導的秘訣將與我們在財富方面的表現、我們在卡方面的表現以及持續抵消 OD/NSF 服務費下降的情況保持一致水桶。那是你要找的嗎？

Yes, that was perfect. Great color.

是的，那太完美了。很棒的顏色。

Yes. Just as an add, the other category which showed being quite attractive this quarter versus last, this is probably a little more of a normal quarter. In the fourth quarter, we called out the fact that we literally had 0 BOLI items occur and very close to 0 SBIC, which is kind of unusual for a quarter where both of those were near 0. So Q1 was a little bit more normal in terms of that type of activity.

是的。另外，本季度與上一季度相比表現出相當吸引力的另一個類別，這可能更像是一個正常的季度。在第四季度，我們提出了一個事實，即我們實際上有 0 個 BOLI 項目發生並且非常接近 0 SBIC，這對於一個兩者都接近 0 的季度來說有點不尋常。所以第一季度在該類型活動的條款。

Our next question comes from Casey Haire with Jefferies.

我們的下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Casey Haire。

Apologies if I missed this, another NIM question. I heard you guys on the DDA settling in the high 30s. Did you guys talk about what your NII forecast assumes for deposit beta versus the 19% here in the first quarter?

抱歉，如果我錯過了這個，另一個 NIM 問題。我聽說你們 DDA 的人在 30 多歲時定居下來。你們是否討論過您的 NII 預測假設存款貝塔與第一季度的 19% 相比？

Yes, Casey, this is Mike. No, we haven't yet. So thank you for that question. But in terms of our deposit betas -- and when I talk about deposit beta, it's really talking about the total deposits, total deposit beta. So we're at 19% cumulative for the cycle. And so for the fourth quarter of this year, the assumption is that, that deposit beta on a cumulative basis will probably settle in at around 30% or 31%.

是的，凱西，這是邁克。不，我們還沒有。謝謝你提出這個問題。但就我們的存款貝塔而言——當我談論存款貝塔時，它實際上是在談論總存款，總存款貝塔。所以我們在這個週期中累積了 19%。因此，對於今年第四季度，假設累計存款貝塔值可能穩定在 30% 或 31% 左右。

Excellent. Okay. Great. And then just a follow-up to the fee guide question. To hit the low end of fee guidance, you're going to have to run by my math, it looks like $87 million in the remaining quarters. That's obviously a pretty steep ramp. I heard the color in terms of you got a number of line items that you expect to help you get there. But if you don't -- if you fall short of that, is there a flexibility on the expense guide? Or is that pretty hard and fast?

出色的。好的。偉大的。然後只是費用指南問題的跟進。要達到費用指導的低端，你將不得不按照我的數學計算，剩下的幾個季度看起來是 8700 萬美元。這顯然是一個非常陡峭的斜坡。我聽說你有許多你希望幫助你實現目標的訂單項。但如果你不這樣做——如果你沒有做到這一點，費用指南是否有靈活性？或者那是非常困難和快速的？

I think when we think about fees, again, the guidance, which we haven't changed, is the up 3% to 4%. And the bias there is probably toward the low end of that range, so somewhere in the 3% range. As we think about how the trend is likely to play out for the balance of the year, recall that from a seasonality point of view, fees tend to build as we go through the calendar year. So it's not like a flat amount across the year, but we would expect fees to begin to build as we go through the year, beginning in the second quarter. So the high point would be the fourth quarter.

我認為當我們考慮費用時，我們沒有改變的指導是上漲 3% 到 4%。那裡的偏差可能偏向該範圍的低端，所以在 3% 範圍內的某個地方。當我們考慮這一趨勢在今年餘下時間可能會如何發展時，請回想一下，從季節性的角度來看，費用往往會隨著日曆年的增加而增加。因此，這不像是全年的固定金額，但我們預計從第二季度開始，隨著我們全年的推移，費用將開始增加。所以最高點將是第四季度。

Got you. Okay. You see my point though, right? Like it's a decent ramp, right?

明白了好的。你明白我的意思，對吧？就像這是一個不錯的坡道，對吧？

It is.

這是。

So okay. All right. And just last one for me on the office book, and obviously everyone's biggest concern. I know it's a small piece of the pie for you guys. Have you guys -- do you guys have any color on the LTV debt service coverage ratio and then percentage Class A versus B and C?

好吧。好的。辦公簿上的最後一個，顯然是每個人最關心的問題。我知道這對你們來說只是一小塊餡餅。你們有沒有 - 你們對 LTV 償債覆蓋率有任何顏色，然後是 A 類與 B 類和 C 類的百分比？

Yes. Thanks for the question, Casey. A lot of our -- first of all, on the LTV, I mean we surveil all of our commercial real estate and even C&I book on a regular basis. So with the additional focus on office and investment commercial real estate, in general, we've certainly paid closer attention to staying close to those customers. And from an LTV perspective, our average -- weighted average LTV is in the low 60s at this point in time. So really healthy LTVs. And even with the upward movement in cap rates, we feel that it can be easily absorbed and still stay within a reasonable bound.

是的。謝謝你的問題，凱西。我們的很多 - 首先，在 LTV 上，我的意思是我們定期監視我們所有的商業房地產，甚至 C＆I 書籍。因此，隨著對辦公和投資商業房地產的額外關注，總的來說，我們當然更加關注與這些客戶保持密切聯繫。從 LTV 的角度來看，我們的平均 - 加權平均 LTV 目前處於 60 左右。非常健康的 LTV。即使資本化率上升，我們認為它可以很容易地被吸收並仍然保持在合理的範圍內。

And then occupancy levels at a lot of our -- on average, are pretty high. We're running in the low 90% occupancy level at this point in time. So pretty strong for that asset class, in general. And debt service coverage, in general, still is pretty strong, kind of in the 1.3 to 1.6 range, depending on the location. Most of our, as we mentioned in the earnings deck on Page 10, we really don't do a lot of high-rise stuff. We have about 4% of the book in high-rise. It's really literally a handful of transactions, nothing of any significance. And I looked into those recently and don't feel particularly concerned about them at all.

然後我們很多的入住率 - 平均而言，非常高。目前，我們的入住率處於 90% 的低水平。總的來說，對於該資產類別來說非常強大。總的來說，償債覆蓋率仍然相當高，在 1.3 到 1.6 之間，具體取決於地點。正如我們在第 10 頁的收益表中提到的那樣，我們的大多數人實際上並沒有做很多高樓大廈的事情。我們有大約4%的書在高層。這實際上是幾筆交易，沒有任何意義。我最近調查了這些，並沒有特別關心它們。

And so the rest of the book is mid- to low-rise stuff in suburban locations, where working and return to office and all of that tends to be a little bit more buoyant.

因此，本書的其餘部分是郊區的中低層建築，在那里工作和返回辦公室，所有這些都傾向於更加活躍。

Our next question comes from Brad Milsaps with Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Brad Milsaps 和 Piper Sandler。

Good afternoon. Mike, I just wanted to follow up on Casey's expense question. Obviously, the PPNR guide came down, which is understandable. But maybe I was a little surprised the expense guidance maybe didn't change a little bit, too, given the pressure on revenue. Is it just fair to assume there's just not a lot of flexibility or variability within the expense base, most or all of that is locked in and not necessarily revenue-dependent based on kind of how you gave the guidance?

下午好。邁克，我只想跟進凱西的費用問題。顯然，PPNR指南下來了，這是可以理解的。但也許我有點驚訝，考慮到收入的壓力，費用指導可能也沒有一點改變。假設費用基礎中沒有太多的靈活性或可變性是否公平，大部分或全部都被鎖定並且不一定取決於收入，具體取決於您如何提供指導？

I think certainly there is some flexibility. But when we think about expenses in the guide, again, that's 6% to 7%, and the bias is probably towards the upper end of that range a little bit. But the other thing about the first quarter expense growth is if we back out things like pension and FDIC, the increase was really more in the neighborhood of 2.5%, 2.6%. So really, again, using the first quarter number is kind of a run rate going forward. We see expenses up just a little bit, probably modestly in the second quarter and then flattish as we go through the back end of the year. So that's how we're kind of thinking about expenses.

我認為當然有一些靈活性。但是，當我們再次考慮指南中的費用時，那是 6% 到 7%，並且偏差可能略微偏向該範圍的上限。但關於第一季度支出增長的另一件事是，如果我們放棄養老金和 FDIC 之類的東西，增幅實際上更多在 2.5% 和 2.6% 左右。所以真的，再次使用第一季度的數字是一種向前的運行率。我們看到支出略有上升，可能在第二季度略有上升，然後在年底時持平。這就是我們考慮費用的方式。

And Brad, this is John. I'll add to that. The levers that could be pulled in terms of reducing our reinvestment pace, we really don't see this current "crisis" as an industry crisis as much as a couple of banks were in crisis, and there's a lot of reaction to that, which is understandable. And that's driving leverage up and, therefore, some pressure on NII that shouldn't continue more than however long it takes for people to get a little bit more confident in the industry.

布拉德，這是約翰。我會補充一點。在降低我們的再投資速度方面可以拉動的槓桿，我們真的不認為當前的“危機”是一場行業危機，就像幾家銀行處於危機中一樣，對此有很多反應，這是可以理解的。這正在推動槓桿率上升，因此，對 NII 的一些壓力不應持續超過人們對該行業更有信心所需的時間。

But we really haven't slowed and don't plan to slow our reinvestment, both in tech, our reinvestment in adding bankers, particularly bankers that are focused on liquidity and smaller, more full relationships, and then in treasury sales. And so we could pull the lever to decrease that reinvestment, but I think we'd be focused more on the next several quarters and not the next several years. And we think it's more important to our investors to continue building PPNR in the long term versus take a short-term benefit.

但我們真的沒有放慢我們的再投資，也不打算放慢我們在技術方面的再投資，我們在增加銀行家方面的再投資，特別是專注於流動性和更小、更全面的關係的銀行家，然後是國債銷售。因此，我們可以拉動槓桿來減少再投資，但我認為我們會更多地關注未來幾個季度，而不是未來幾年。我們認為，對我們的投資者而言，從長遠來看繼續建設 PPNR 比獲取短期利益更為重要。

So that's really the logic behind the reinvestment thesis. We still think it's a smart play and more beneficial in the long run. And so we haven't decline that at all. Now if the environment were sour to the point that, that makes sense, then certainly, we have that capacity to do that. But that's not the posture that we're sharing or taking at the moment.

所以這就是再投資論點背後的邏輯。我們仍然認為這是一種明智的做法，從長遠來看更有利。所以我們根本沒有拒絕。現在，如果環境惡化到一定程度，那是有道理的，那麼我們當然有能力做到這一點。但這不是我們目前分享或採取的姿態。

Got it. That's helpful, John. I appreciate that. And then maybe just a final one for Chris. I appreciate the additional color on the CRE book. I was just curious, as you think about the pace of renewals as you move through this year and next, is it -- do you have a lot coming due soon? Or is it pretty -- is it a fairly even pace over the next several years? Just trying to think about what could trigger appraisals and so on, just kind of how to think about the renewal process.

知道了。這很有幫助，約翰。我很感激。然後也許只是克里斯的最後一個。我很欣賞 CRE 書中的附加顏色。我只是很好奇，當你考慮今年和明年的續約速度時，是嗎——你有很多即將到期的嗎？或者它很漂亮——在接下來的幾年裡它的速度是否相當均勻？只是想考慮什麼可以觸發評估等，只是想如何考慮續訂流程。

Yes. Excellent question. Yes, we've been looking at that just to kind of stay ahead of what could be coming. And really, they are evenly spread out. We probably actually have less renewals in the next year or 2 than we do a little bit further out. But generally speaking, it's pretty evenly spread out, which is a good thing. It allows us to kind of manage the book and make decisions along the way.

是的。很好的問題。是的，我們一直在關注這一點，只是為了領先於可能發生的事情。實際上，它們分佈均勻。實際上，我們在未來一兩年內的續約可能比我們稍遠一點的續約要少。但總的來說，它分佈得相當均勻，這是一件好事。它使我們能夠管理這本書並在整個過程中做出決定。

Your next question comes from Matt Olney with Stephens.

你的下一個問題來自 Matt Olney 和 Stephens。

Just to follow up on the loan growth. You called out the CRE growth in the first quarter was from those construction loans that move, I guess, to a permanent financing as the construction phase was completed. Anything else you can tell us about that dynamic? We keep hearing that the secondary markets for permanent financing are still relatively shut down. So I'm just curious how that dynamic is impacting the bank.

只是為了跟進貸款增長。你說第一季度的 CRE 增長來自那些建築貸款，我猜，隨著建築階段的完成，這些貸款會轉移到永久融資。關於這種動態，您還有什麼可以告訴我們的嗎？我們不斷聽到永久性融資的二級市場仍然相對關閉。所以我很好奇這種動態如何影響銀行。

Sure. This is John. I'll give you some color on that. So in looking at the income-producing CRE category, that growth was about 90% multifamily. We still have a pretty high -- a healthy buyer set, if you will. Demand for occupancy is still extremely high in our footprint. And so there's plenty of price support at the unit level and support for activity. So literally about 90% of the growth we've shown in CRE was in multifamily and about half of that was migration from C&D to CRE.

當然。這是約翰。我會給你一些顏色。因此，在查看創收的 CRE 類別時，多戶住宅的增長率約為 90%。如果你願意的話，我們仍然有一個相當高的 - 一個健康的買家集。在我們的足跡中，對入住率的需求仍然非常高。因此，在單位層面上有大量的價格支持和對活動的支持。因此，從字面上看，我們在 CRE 中顯示的大約 90% 的增長是在多戶家庭中，其中大約一半是從 C&D 遷移到 CRE。

And so that would naturally create the question of, well, why didn't C&D go down? And the answer to that is because projects that are already in flight tend to draw over time. So new commitment production is, I would call, modestly or maybe even moderately down from where it was a couple of quarters ago. So I think what we expected to see happen this year is beginning to happen, which is the combination of supply cost, of labor cost, of debt cost is, I think, causing developers to think maybe they should wait for a few months to see if there's any benefit on inflation and benefit on perhaps revolving costs going down a bit.

因此，這自然會產生一個問題，好吧，為什麼 C&D 沒有倒閉？答案是因為已經在進行中的項目往往會隨著時間的推移而減少。因此，我認為新的承諾產量比幾個季度前的水平略有下降，甚至可能略有下降。所以我認為我們預計今年會發生的事情開始發生了，我認為供應成本、勞動力成本和債務成本的組合，讓開發商認為也許他們應該等幾個月才能看到如果對通貨膨脹有任何好處，並且可能對循環成本有所下降有好處。

I mean just 10 or 20 basis points can make a big difference in the total profitability of our projects. So commitments have declined, even though the C&D buckets shown is flat. And so as we go through the course of the year, we may not see those levels of growth continue. But our appetite in CRE is pretty uniquely multifamily overall because that's the business and the area that we're operating in that's enjoying the most support, both in permanent and in occupancy increasing as time goes by.

我的意思是僅 10 或 20 個基點就可以對我們項目的總盈利能力產生重大影響。因此承諾減少了，即使顯示的 C&D 桶是持平的。因此，在我們度過這一年的過程中，我們可能不會看到這些增長水平持續下去。但我們對 CRE 的興趣總體上是非常獨特的多戶家庭，因為這是我們經營的業務和地區享受最多的支持，隨著時間的推移，永久性和入住率都在增加。

That's helpful, John. And then within that multifamily product that you mentioned, any color within your markets as far as where that product is, primarily like what markets?

這很有幫助，約翰。然後在您提到的多戶型產品中，您的市場中的任何顏色就該產品的位置而言，主要是什麼市場？

Sure. It's -- I'll start, and Chris may want to add some more color. But predominantly, the multifamily projects are happening in the markets that are enjoying the best population growth. And so the last 2 or 3 years, and some of that was stimulated by the pandemic, but it wasn't -- it's not different trends than we had prepandemic. It was just a little bit more exaggerated, and that's predominantly Texas and Florida. And I think that's probably going to stay the course until we begin to see it flatten out overall. So there are other projects around the footprint, but the leading project is going to be in those suburban areas around the MSAs in Texas and Florida.

當然。我要開始了，Chris 可能想添加更多顏色。但主要是，多戶住宅項目發生在人口增長最快的市場。因此，在過去的 2 或 3 年裡，其中一些是受到大流行的刺激，但事實並非如此——這與大流行前的趨勢沒有什麼不同。只是有點誇張，主要是德克薩斯州和佛羅里達州。而且我認為這可能會持續下去，直到我們開始看到它整體趨於平緩。因此，圍繞足跡還有其他項目，但主要項目將位於德克薩斯州和佛羅里達州 MSA 周圍的郊區。

Yes. And I'll just add to that a little bit. John is absolutely right. But we really look at the dynamics of those individual markets, including the various projects that are kind of under construction to make sure that we're not supporting a project that's going into maybe what might be an oversaturated geography.

是的。我會補充一點。約翰是絕對正確的。但我們確實關注了這些個別市場的動態，包括正在建設中的各種項目，以確保我們不會支持一個可能進入可能過度飽和的地區的項目。

Yes. And the focus -- and to be clear, while we gave a fairly -- I think at the front of the year, what may have been considered at the time or rather anemic guide for loan growth, it was really with this environment in mind. And we said then, 3 months ago, that we would be endeavoring and working feverishly towards covering loan growth that we thought would be in the mid-singles for the year with core deposit growth. And we get pretty close to doing that in Q1, coupled with the cash flow coming off the securities portfolio, we more than did that.

是的。重點 - 明確地說，雖然我們給出了一個公平的 - 我認為在今年年初，當時可能已經考慮過的，或者更確切地說是貸款增長的貧乏指南，它確實考慮到了這種環境. 3 個月前，我們曾表示，我們將努力並狂熱地工作，以覆蓋我們認為今年年中單筆貸款增長與核心存款增長。我們在第一季度非常接近這樣做，加上來自證券投資組合的現金流，我們做得更多。

So I think as time goes by, we got toward the events that happened mid-March, what we were planning to do is become even more important, we think more thoughtful for the year. And so over the course of the next several months, we aren't intending to grow loans just to grow loans. It's about growing core deposits and then loaning that out in sectors that we believe will survive the test of the cycle. It is very important to us to focus on NIM, to focus on PPNR, our efficiency ratio, our expense ratio and asset quality through whatever the cycle turns out to be.

所以我認為隨著時間的推移，我們接近了 3 月中旬發生的事件，我們計劃做的事情變得更加重要，我們對這一年的思考更加周到。因此，在接下來的幾個月裡，我們不打算僅僅為了增加貸款而增加貸款。這是關於增加核心存款，然後將其借貸到我們認為能夠經受住週期考驗的行業。無論周期結果如何，關注 NIM，關注 PPNR，我們的效率比率，我們的費用比率和資產質量對我們來說非常重要。

So if we have to give up on growth to achieve all that, that would be more important to us. And then as the market begins to give a better opportunity for balance sheet growth, and we'll take advantage of that then. We have plenty of offensive firepower to do that when we think it's a little bit healthier environment.

因此，如果我們不得不放棄增長來實現這一切，那對我們來說更為重要。然後隨著市場開始為資產負債表增長提供更好的機會，我們將利用這一點。當我們認為這是一個更健康的環境時，我們有足夠的進攻火力來做到這一點。

Your next question comes from Christopher Marinac from Janney Montgomery Scott.

你的下一個問題來自 Janney Montgomery Scott 的 Christopher Marinac。

I just had a question, Mike and John, about Slide 20 and the impact of the capital if you have this scenario of all the losses being taken. What's the impact from the cash flow hedges that -- as you detail a little further back? Do those help you as time goes on? Or are there scenarios where that could be punitive?

邁克和約翰，我剛剛有一個問題，關於幻燈片 20 和資本的影響，如果你有這種所有損失都被承擔的情況。現金流量對沖的影響是什麼——正如你稍稍詳細介紹的那樣？隨著時間的推移，這些對你有幫助嗎？或者在某些情況下可能會受到懲罰？

Well, right now, in terms of our cash flow hedges, the market value of the cash flow hedges is about a negative $81 million, and it's a positive $19 million in terms of the fair value hedges. So that $81 million is obviously included in those calculations. So to the extent that, that improves and that's a little bit of a help going forward.

那麼，現在，就我們的現金流量對沖而言，現金流量對沖的市場價值約為負 8100 萬美元，而就公允價值對沖而言，它是正 1900 萬美元。因此，這些計算中顯然包括了 8100 萬美元。因此，在某種程度上，這有所改善，並且對前進有一點幫助。

And then, Mike, mechanically, I was getting into some of the details at the very end of the deck today. As rates go down, are you better protected than you were? Is that fair to say?

然後，邁克，機械地，我今天在甲板的最後進入了一些細節。隨著利率下降，您是否比以前受到更好的保護？這樣說公平嗎？

Yes. Obviously, if rates start to go down then those cash flow hedges, the carry value obviously becomes less negative. And so that's a plus in terms of the NII support.

是的。顯然，如果利率開始下降，那麼那些現金流量對沖的賬面價值顯然會變得不那麼負。因此，就 NII 支持而言，這是一個優勢。

Okay. And then I guess a related question, if you didn't have the hedges in place, I mean as time passes, you still have some natural cash flow and amortization of your securities book, right? So those numbers should be getting better even on their own beyond the theoretical ratio?

好的。然後我猜一個相關的問題，如果你沒有到位的對沖，我的意思是隨著時間的推移，你的證券賬簿仍然有一些自然現金流和攤銷，對吧？那麼這些數字應該會變得更好，甚至超出理論比率？

Yes. Yes, absolutely. And the cash flow coming off the bond portfolio right now is about $125 million per quarter. So that's a significant amount coming off. And the bonds, obviously, the carry value of the bonds will go down as we go through that. And then also the duration begins to shorten a little bit.

是的。是的，一點沒錯。目前來自債券投資組合的現金流量約為每季度 1.25 億美元。所以這是一個很大的數字。很明顯，債券的賬面價值會隨著我們的經歷而下降。然後持續時間也開始縮短一點。

Okay. So you're still in a position where there's no reason to, a, restructure and it's probably too expensive to do that anyways. But then even some of the outlets that the Fed created, that's not necessarily applicable at this point.

好的。因此，您仍然處於沒有理由進行重組的位置，而且這樣做的成本可能太高了。但即使是美聯儲創建的一些渠道，在這一點上也不一定適用。

No, I don't think so. But in terms of restructuring the bond portfolio, I mean, that's something we look at, like anyone else does on a quarter-by-quarter basis. But you're right. Right now, it's not something that we have an appetite to execute on.

不，我不這麼認為。但就重組債券投資組合而言，我的意思是，這是我們關注的事情，就像其他任何人按季度一樣。但你是對的。現在，這不是我們有興趣執行的事情。

Great. Thanks for the extra detail today. I appreciate it.

偉大的。感謝今天的額外細節。我很感激。

You bet. Thank you very much. Okay. Before we close the call, I wanted to get back to Brandon's question. His question was around the NIM for the month of March. So that was at 3.47%. So about 8 basis points off the quarterly average. So just wanted to get back to Brandon on that.

你打賭。非常感謝。好的。在我們結束通話之前，我想回到 Brandon 的問題。他的問題是圍繞 3 月份的 NIM。所以這是 3.47%。所以比季度平均水平低大約 8 個基點。所以只想回到 Brandon 那裡。

There are no further questions at this time. I'll now turn the call back over to John for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我現在將電話轉回給 John 以作結束語。

Thanks, everyone, for your attention on the call and for calling in a late afternoon. Thank you, Chantel, for running the call for us. So we appreciate everyone's interest, and we'll look forward to seeing you on the road.

謝謝大家，感謝您關注電話並在下午晚些時候打電話。 Chantel，謝謝你為我們主持電話會議。所以我們感謝大家的興趣，我們期待在路上見到你。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。