Heron Therapeutics Inc (HRTX) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and thank you for standing by and welcome to the Heron Therapeutics Q4 2024 conference call. (Operator Instructions) After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session.

大家好，感謝您的支持，歡迎參加 Heron Therapeutics 2024 年第四季電話會議。（操作員指示）演講者演講結束後，將有一個問答環節。

And please be advised that today's conference call is being recorded. I would not like to hand a conference over to your speaker today, Melissa Jarel, executive director of Segal. Please go ahead.

請注意，今天的電話會議正在錄音。今天我不想把會議交給你們的發言人、Segal 執行董事 Melissa Jarel。請繼續。

Thank you, Operator, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us on the Heron Therapeutics conference call this morning to discuss the company's financial results for the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2024.

謝謝接線員，大家早安。感謝您今天上午參加 Heron Therapeutics 電話會議，討論該公司截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的第四季度財務業績。

With me today from Heron are Craig Collard, Chief Executive Officer, Ira Duarte, Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer, Bill Forbes, Executive Vice President, Chief Development Officer, and Kevin Warner, Senior Vice President, Medical Affairs, Strategy and Engagement.

今天與我一起出席 Heron 會議的還有執行長 Craig Collard、執行副總裁兼財務長 Ira Duarte、執行副總裁兼首席開發長 Bill Forbes 和醫療事務、策略與參與高級副總裁 Kevin Warner。

For those of you participating via conference call, slides are made available via webcast and can also be accessed via the investor relations page of our website following the conclusion of today's call. Before we begin, let me quickly remind you that during the course of this conference call, the company will make forward-looking statements. We caution you that any statement that is not a statement of historical fact is a forward-looking statement.

對於透過電話會議參與的各位，幻燈片可以透過網路廣播獲取，也可以在今天的電話會議結束後透過我們網站的投資者關係頁面訪問。在我們開始之前，請允許我快速提醒您，在本次電話會議期間，公司將做出前瞻性陳述。我們提醒您，任何非歷史事實陳述都是前瞻性陳述。

This includes remarks about the company's projections, expectations, plans, beliefs, and future performance, all which constitute forward-looking statements for the purposes of the Safe Harbor provision under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

這包括有關公司預測、期望、計劃、信念和未來業績的評論，所有這些都構成 1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案安全港條款所指的前瞻性陳述。

These statements are based on judgment and analysis as of the date of this conference call and are subject to numerous important risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in the forward-looking statement.

這些聲明是基於本次電話會議之日的判斷和分析，並受到許多重要風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性聲明中所述的結果有重大差異。

The risks and uncertainties associated with the forward-looking statements made in this conference call and webcast are described in the Safe Harbor statement in today's press release and in Heron's public periodic filings with the SEC.

本次電話會議和網路廣播中前瞻性陳述所涉及的風險和不確定性在今天的新聞稿中的安全港聲明和 Heron 向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期公開文件中進行了描述。

Except as required by law, Heron assumes no obligation to update these forward-looking statements to reflect future events or actual outcomes and does not intend to do so.

除法律要求外，Heron 不承擔更新這些前瞻性陳述以反映未來事件或實際結果的義務，也不打算這樣做。

And with that, I would now like to turn the call over to Craig Collard, Chief Executive Officer of Heron.

現在，我想將電話轉給 Heron 執行長 Craig Collard。

Thanks, Melissa. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Heron Therapeutics fourth quarter of 2024 earnings call. Today we're extremely excited to share our results for the quarter as well as our performance for the full year 2024.

謝謝，梅麗莎。大家早安，歡迎參加 Heron Therapeutics 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。今天，我們非常高興地分享我們本季的業績以及 2024 年全年的業績。

Since joining the company in April 2023, our goal as a management team has been to reposition the business for future growth and achieve profitability by the fourth quarter of 2024. As we focused on positioning the company for growth, we successfully expanded the product labeling for ZYNRELEF, doubling the number of approved indicator procedures.

自 2023 年 4 月加入公司以來，作為管理團隊，我們的目標一直是重新定位業務以實現未來成長，並在 2024 年第四季實現盈利。由於我們專注於公司的成長定位，我們成功擴大了 ZYNRELEF 的產品標籤，使批准的指標程序數量增加了一倍。

We also signed, trained, and integrated our crosslink partnership, which includes over 800 distributor representatives focused on the orthopedic space. Additionally, we secured inclusion in the NOPAIN Act, which expands reimbursement for ZYNRELEF outside of the surgical bundle, allowing more patients access to a non-opioid alternative for postoperative pain.

我們還簽署、培訓並整合了我們的交叉連結合作夥伴關係，其中包括 800 多名專注於骨科領域的經銷商代表。此外，我們還被納入了《NOPAIN法案》，該法案擴大了手術方案之外的ZYNRELEF的報銷範圍，使更多患者能夠獲得非阿片類藥物替代療法來緩解術後疼痛。

In late September we received approval of the vile Access Needle or VAN and launched the new device in mid-December. The VAN significantly improves the preparation time and may enhance the safe use of our product.

9 月底，我們獲得了 Access Needle 或 VAN 的批准，並於 12 月中旬推出了這款新設備。VAN 顯著縮短了準備時間，並且可以提高我們產品的安全性使用。

We are already receiving positive feedback with many noting that this is a dramatic improvement over the previously used Volpi. Lastly, in early December 2024, the US District Court ruled in favor of Heron in our patent lawsuit against Fresenius Kabi.

我們已經收到了正面的回饋，許多人指出這比以前使用的 Volpi 有了顯著的改進。最後，2024 年 12 月初，美國地方法院在我們針對費森尤斯卡比的專利訴訟中裁定 Heron 勝訴。

Upholding the validity of the CINVANTI patents which are set to expire in 2035. Despite all the changes in accomplishments over the past 18 months, we successfully achieved profitability not only for the fourth quarter of 2024, but also for the full year. We finished the quarter with a net income of $3.6 million.

維護將於 2035 年到期的 CINVANTI 專利的有效性。儘管過去 18 個月的業績發生了許多變化，但我們不僅在 2024 年第四季度成功實現了盈利，而且全年也實現了盈利。本季我們的淨收入為 360 萬美元。

For the full year 2024, net revenues reached $144.2 million reflecting a 14% year over year increase, and we delivered an adjusted EBITDA of $8.6 million. CINVANTI net revenues rebounded from a slight downturn in Q3, finishing the fourth quarter at $26.9 million compared to $22.7 million in Q3.

2024 年全年淨收入達 1.442 億美元，年增 14%，調整後 EBITDA 為 860 萬美元。CINVANTI 淨收入從第三季的小幅下滑中反彈，第四季淨收入達到 2,690 萬美元，而第三季為 2,270 萬美元。

For the full year 2024, CINVANTI generated just over $100 million in net revenues, up from $94.8 million in 2023. ZYNRELEF achieved record net revenues of $8.5 million in Q4 of 2024, a 33% increase from $6.3 million in Q3.

2024 年全年，CINVANTI 的淨收入略高於 1 億美元，高於 2023 年的 9,480 萬美元。ZYNRELEF 在 2024 年第四季實現了創紀錄的 850 萬美元淨收入，較第三季的 630 萬美元成長 33%。

This growth was achieved with minimal impact from the van launch as it was introduced in mid-December. To highlight the progress since we joined Heron in April 2023, it is helpful to reflect on the financials from 2022 through 2024. Net revenues grew by 14% from 23 to 24%, while gross margin improved by 24%, increasing from 49% to approximately 73%.

由於這款貨車於 12 月中旬推出，因此其銷售成長受到的影響很小。為了突顯我們自 2023 年 4 月加入 Heron 以來的進展，回顧 2022 年至 2024 年的財務狀況會很有幫助。淨收入成長了14%，從23%增至24%，而毛利率則提高了24%，從49%增至約73%。

Operating expenses have been reduced by over $80 million since 2022. We ended 2024 with a cash balance of just over $59 million. This has been a long journey, but I am extremely proud of all here and team members for their sacrifices and turning this business around and achieving profitability in 2024.

自 2022 年以來，營運費用已減少了 8,000 多萬美元。截至 2024 年，我們的現金餘額略高於 5,900 萬美元。這是一段漫長的旅程，但我為這裡所有人和團隊成員的犧牲以及扭轉業務並在 2024 年實現盈利感到非常自豪。

Now shifting to product performance, our oncology franchise, which includes both CINVANTI and SUSTOL, continues to show growth despite a highly competitive environment. As mentioned in our last quarterly earnings call, these products can experience quarterly fluctuations, but historically have maintained annual growth.

現在轉向產品性能，我們的腫瘤學特許經營權（包括 CINVANTI 和 SUSTOL）儘管競爭激烈，但仍繼續呈現成長。正如我們在上次季度收益電話會議上提到的那樣，這些產品可能會經歷季度波動，但從歷史上看，它們一直保持著年度成長。

For 2025, we have taken a more conservative approach to our outlook for CINVANTI, given the increased competition entering the market and the potential pressure on our average selling price. While we still anticipate growth in unit sales for 2025, this may come at a lower price point which could impact net revenues for the ecology franchise.

對於 2025 年，考慮到市場競爭加劇以及平均售價可能面臨的壓力，我們對 CINVANTI 的前景採取了更保守的態度。雖然我們仍然預計 2025 年銷量會成長，但價格可能會較低，這可能會影響生態特許經營的淨收入。

Moving on to the acute hospital side of our business, both the APONVIE and CINVANTI have seen significant growth, up over 31% and 48% respectively in Q4 of 2024 compared to the same period last year.

談到我們業務的急性醫院方面，APONVIE 和 CINVANTI 都實現了顯著增長，2024 年第四季度與去年同期相比分別增長了 31% 和 48% 以上。

With a APONVIE we are beginning to see a dramatic shift in trends, particularly in average daily units and the number of Orient counts. We believe this growth will continue in 2025 and beyond as our pull through efforts expand product usage within hospital institutions.

透過 APONVIE，我們開始看到趨勢發生巨大變化，特別是平均每日單位數和東方計數數。我們相信，隨著我們的努力擴大醫院機構內產品的使用範圍，這種成長將在 2025 年及以後持續下去。

Additionally, we anticipate further growth as we as we continue adding new accounts through PNT wins and system-wide conversions. A similar trend is emerging with Inlet. Our daily unit sales are steadily increasing, and we are onboarding new accounts at a much faster rate than in the past.

此外，隨著我們繼續透過 PNT 勝利和全系統轉換增加新帳戶，我們預計還會進一步成長。類似的趨勢也出現在 Inlet 身上。我們的每日單位銷售量正在穩定成長，我們以比過去快得多的速度接納新客戶。

We achieved record net revenues this quarter despite the van not officially launching until mid-December and our team still finalizing training for some of our crossing partners.

儘管該貨車直到 12 月中旬才正式推出，而且我們的團隊仍在為一些過境合作夥伴進行最後的培訓，但我們本季仍實現了創紀錄的淨收入。

We're excited about the strong momentum we have with ZYNRELEF as we head into 2025. The efforts and accomplishments of the past 18 months are already yielding results, and we believe that as the year progresses, ZYNRELEF will experience a significant upward inflection, ultimately exceeding performance expectations.

我們對 ZYNRELEF 在 2025 年即將到來之際所展現出的強勁勢頭感到非常興奮。過去 18 個月的努力和成就已經初見成效，我們相信，隨著時間的推移，ZYNRELEF 將經歷顯著的上升拐點，最終超出業績預期。

I will now turn the call over to Ira Duarte, our CFO, to cover our financials and update our financial guidance. Go ahead.

現在，我將把電話轉給我們的財務長 Ira Duarte，以介紹我們的財務狀況並更新我們的財務指導。前進。

Thank you, Craig. We continue to improve on our financial efficiency while growing revenues. Over the past 12 months, during a time of change and disruption at the company, we grew revenues 13.6%, improved gross margin from 48.8% to 73.2%, and grew gross profit by almost 71%.

謝謝你，克雷格。我們在增加收入的同時，不斷提高財務效率。在過去的 12 個月中，在公司經歷變革和動盪的時期，我們的收入成長了 13.6%，毛利率從 48.8% 提高到 73.2%，毛利增加了近 71%。

More importantly, we did this and burned only approximately $21 million in cash for 2024. Our product gross profit for the three months ended December 31, 2024, was $30.6 million, or 74.9%, which increased from 71.1% for the same period in 2023.

更重要的是，我們做到了這一點，並且在 2024 年僅消耗了約 2,100 萬美元現金。截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的三個月，我們的產品毛利為 3,060 萬美元，或 74.9%，高於 2023 年同期的 71.1%。

This was primarily due to the fact that the current quarter did not see the significant inventory write-offs we experienced in the comparable quarter of 2023. Year-to-date our product gross profit was $105.6 million or 73.2% as compared to $43.7 million or 48.8% for the same period in 2023.

這主要是因為本季沒有出現像 2023 年同期那樣的大量庫存註銷。年初至今，我們的產品毛利為 1.056 億美元，增幅為 73.2%，而 2023 年同期為 4,370 萬美元，增幅為 48.8%。

SG&A expenses for the three months and 12 months ended December 31, 2024, with $23.2 million and $100.5 million respectively, compared to $26.8 million and $133.4 million respectively in the same period in 2023.

截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的三個月及 12 個月的銷售、一般及行政費用分別為 2,320 萬美元及 1.005 億美元，而 2023 年同期分別為 2,680 萬美元及 1.334 億美元。

The decrease was primarily related to decreases in personnel and related costs due to the reductions in force in prior years, as well as improved cost efficiencies among all departments. These decreases were offset by increased legal expenses related to the patent litigation.

減少的主要原因是前幾年裁員導致人員和相關成本減少，以及各部門成本效率提高。這些減少被與專利訴訟相關的法律費用的增加所抵消。

Research and development expenses were $3.2 million and $16.7 million for the three months and 12-months end of December 31, 2024, compared to $7.8 million and $39.1 million in the comparable periods in 2023. The decrease was primarily related to decreases in personnel and related costs due to the reductions in force implemented in previous years, as well as decrease in development activities.

截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的三個月和十二個月的研發費用分別為 320 萬美元和 1,670 萬美元，而 2023 年同期的研發費用分別為 780 萬美元和 3,910 萬美元。減少的主要原因是前幾年實施的裁員導致人員和相關成本的減少，以及開發活動的減少。

We achieved net income for the three months end of December 31, 2024, of $3.7 million and had a net loss for the for the year ended December 31, 2024, of $13.6 million. During the comparable periods in 2023, we had net losses of $10.7 million and $110.6 million respectively.

截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的三個月，我們的淨收入為 370 萬美元，截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的年度淨虧損為 1,360 萬美元。2023 年同期，我們的淨虧損分別為 1,070 萬美元和 1.106 億美元。

Cash and short-term investments on December 31, 2024, was $59.3 million. Year-to-date, we incurred inventory write-outs of $2.5 million. In addition, as mentioned on previous calls, we also recorded as impairment write-outs of $2.2 million primarily related to projects no longer part of the company's forward-looking strategy.

2024 年 12 月 31 日的現金和短期投資為 5,930 萬美元。今年迄今，我們的庫存沖銷金額為 250 萬美元。此外，正如先前的電話會議中所提到的，我們還記錄了 220 萬美元的減損損失，主要與不再屬於公司前瞻性策略的專案有關。

If we had excluded depreciation, stock-based compensation, inventory write-offs, and the asset impairment write-offs, our adjusted EBITDA results would have been a positive $8.6 million operating income, which represents a substantial turnaround in the financial management of the business.

如果我們排除折舊、股票薪酬、庫存註銷和資產減損註銷，我們的調整後 EBITDA 結果將是正 860 萬美元的營業收入，這代表著業務財務管理的重大轉變。

We are providing products revenues net guidance range of $153 million to $163 million and adjusted EBITDA guidance range of 0 to $8 million.

我們提供的產品收入淨指引範圍為 1.53 億美元至 1.63 億美元，調整後的 EBITDA 指引範圍為 0 至 800 萬美元。

And now we would like to open the call for any questions.

現在我們願意開始回答任何問題。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。（操作員指示）

And our first question comes from the line of Brandon Fuchs of Frogman Run Show. Your line is now open.

我們的第一個問題來自 Frogman Run Show 的 Brandon Fuchs。您的線路現已開通。

Hi, thanks for taking my question and congratulations on a very good quarter. Firstly, maybe just on ZYNRELEF's performance in the quarter.

您好，感謝您回答我的問題，並祝賀您本季取得了非常好的成績。首先，可能僅關注 ZYNRELEF 在本季的表現。

Any stocking there or anything or was that sort of how we should think about ZYNRELEF going forward and then staying on ZYNRELEF, have you had any accounts come back that were perhaps not general users prior to the van launch and sort of inquire about the van launch? You talked about onboarding new accounts at a at a very strong level, in 2025 strategically. Are you focusing on driving deeper usage in the current sort of high user accounts or should we think about growing the breadth of accounts or both? Thank you.

那裡有任何庫存或任何東西嗎？或者我們應該如何考慮 ZYNRELEF 的未來發展，然後繼續使用 ZYNRELEF，您是否有任何帳戶回來，這些帳戶可能不是貨車推出之前的普通用戶，並且詢問貨車推出的情況？您談到了在 2025 年以非常強勁的策略力度吸收新客戶。您是否專注於推動當前高用戶帳戶的更深入使用，或者我們是否應該考慮擴大帳戶的廣度，或者兩者兼而有之？謝謝。

Thanks, Brendon. Yeah, let me first speak just to Zen performance in in Q4. There's really no stocking, anything like that as far as in those revenues. Actually, inventories have been quite low. We're in sort of this, two weeks to three weeks inventory level, and Van really didn't launch fully until about mid-December of 24, so I think the impact was fairly minimal.

謝謝，布倫登。是的，首先讓我談談 Zen 在第四季的表現。就這些收入而言，實際上不存在庫存之類的東西。事實上，庫存一直很低。我們的庫存水準大致如此，只有兩週到三週，而 Van 直到 24 年 12 月中旬才真正全面上市，所以我認為影響相當小。

What I can tell you is what we're seeing is the reception so far to Van has been exceptional from a standpoint of just being much more user friendly and just a better customer experience, but we've to date, I think we've had at least 15 accounts that we either saved or that have come back as part of launching the van and again that's more in the kind of January time frame that we've sort of seen that and so.

我可以告訴你的是，從更用戶友好和更好的客戶體驗的角度來看，我們看到 Van 到目前為止的反應非常好，但到目前為止，我認為我們已經有至少 15 個帳戶，這些帳戶要么是我們保存下來的，要么是作為 Van 推出的一部分而重新回來的，而且這更多的是在 1 月份左右，我們已經看到了這一點。

I anticipate that we're going to continue to see, pretty strong growth as if you think about, the tailwinds we have with the product with Mil Pay Act, with the cross link, partnership really starting to kind of come on board and get going and then the launch of the van and also, with the expanded label and so we've been extremely pleased, kind of how that has gone so far. We really see this product inflecting as we kind of move.

我預計我們將繼續看到相當強勁的增長，正如您所想，我們通過與軍人薪酬法案 (Mil Pay Act) 合作推出產品所帶來的順風，通過交叉鏈接，合作夥伴關係真正開始發揮作用，然後推出貨車，還有擴大的標籤，所以我們對目前的進展感到非常高興。隨著我們的發展，我們確實看到該產品正在發生變化。

Later in the year, the other thing I'll mention about Van is that we've only launched the 400 mg to date. We have kits where you can switch over the 200 mg, but the 200 mg won't fully launch until right around the April time frame to give us time to sort of bleed out the old inventory that was out there. So I think as we kind of move into kind of mid-year, you're really going to see a change as there'll be complete van, no more valve spike in the market.

今年晚些時候，我要提到的關於 Van 的另一件事是，到目前為止我們只推出了 400 毫克的版本。我們有可以轉換 200 毫克的套件，但 200 毫克要到 4 月份左右才會全面推出，以便我們有時間清理現有的舊庫存。因此，我認為，隨著我們進入年中，你真的會看到一個變化，因為市場上將會出現完整的貨車，不再有閥門峰值。

Great, thanks very much. And then maybe just one on the sort of cash flow just at Ibida, obviously, a very positive year on that aspect. I appreciate the guidance for 2025. How should we think about it sort of on a quarterly basis, could there be sort of a bit of lumpiness just in terms of swinging between positive and negative cash flow in the first half of the year and sort of as that van ramps up, we see exiting the year with consistent positive cash flow, or do you feel like you're at a stage now where we should be thinking about positive cash flow every quarter?

太好了，非常感謝。然後也許只是 Ibida 的現金流，顯然，從這方面來看，這是非常積極的一年。我很欣賞對 2025 年的指導。我們應該如何以季度為基礎來考慮這個問題，在上半年，正現金流和負現金流之間是否存在某種波動，隨著現金流的增加，我們是否會看到年底出現持續的正現金流，或者您是否覺得現在我們應該每個季度都考慮正現金流？

Yeah, Brandon, thank you for the question. Yes, it will be a little bit lumpy, primarily because of some of the legal spend in the PFS. It's really what is impacting our quarters a little bit overall, the results and the spend will not change significantly from this year, but those are the two factors that could provide a little bit of lumpiness in the beginning of the year.

是的，布蘭登，謝謝你的提問。是的，會有點不平衡，主要是因為 PFS 中的一些法律支出。這確實對我們的整體季度產生了一些影響，業績和支出與今年相比不會有太大變化，但這兩個因素可能會在年初帶來一些波動。

Yeah, Brandon, I would add too, I mean, the one thing we've been a bit conservative on is with CINVANTI.

是的，布蘭登，我還要補充一點，我的意思是，我們在 CINVANTI 方面有點保守。

I mean, as we see the product now, we're tracking pretty close to where we were last year. I mean we typically have about 78% to 80% market growth in that space, and we've been maintaining roughly around 27% share. We've anticipated, some competition later in the year and with ASP dipping a bit, but As we sit today, we're tracking pretty close to where we were last year, so we've tried to be a bit conservative there, so that's another, part that could move a bit.

我的意思是，正如我們現在看到的產品一樣，我們的表現與去年的水平非常接近。我的意思是，我們在該領域的市場成長率通常約為 78% 到 80%，而且我們一直保持大約 27% 的份額。我們預計今年晚些時候會有一些競爭，平均售價也會有所下降，但就目前而言，我們的表現與去年的水平非常接近，因此我們試圖在這方面保持保守，所以這是另一個可能會有所變動的部分。

Great, thanks very much and congrats on the good quarter.

太好了，非常感謝，恭喜本季取得良好業績。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you so much. And one moment for your next question. Our next question comes from the line of Serge Ballinger of NETAM. Your line is now open.

太感謝了。請稍候回答您的下一個問題。我們的下一個問題來自 NETAM 的 Serge Ballinger。您的線路現已開通。

Hi, good morning. A couple questions on Zynrilef. Looks like the product is gaining momentum here. Maybe just talk about what's been driving that momentum and what you expect from Nopain once it kicks in for Zynrilef, which I believe is in March or April.

嗨，早安。關於 Zynrilef 的幾個問題。看起來該產品在這裡正獲得發展動能。也許只是談論推動這種勢頭的因素，以及一旦 Nopain 開始替代 Zynrilef（我相信是在三月或四月），您對它有何期望。

Yes, that's correct. I think we've been really pleased with the momentum we've had. Again, I mentioned the tailwinds before, but from a reimbursement standpoint, it will fully come into play on April 1st. But I think the bigger thing we're getting from that is really just the noise around no pain and the push, if you will, to look at non-opioid alternatives. That's going to help us and really anybody that's in this market selling those type of products. So I think that's been going to be hugely helpful for us. What was the last part of your question?

是的，正確。我認為我們對目前的發展勢頭感到非常滿意。再次，我之前提到過順風，但從報銷的角度來看，它將在 4 月 1 日全面發揮作用。但我認為，我們從中獲得的更重要的其實是圍繞著無痛療法的討論，以及尋找非阿片類藥物替代品的推動力。這將對我們以及在這個市場上銷售此類產品的任何人都有所幫助。所以我認為這對我們來說將會非常有幫助。你的問題的最後一部分是什麼？

I'm sorry. Yeah, the momentum we saw in the fourth quarter, what was it driven by and whether it would accelerate?

對不起。是的，我們在第四季看到的勢頭是由什麼推動的，它是否會加速？

Yeah, no I'm sorry. I was going to speak to cross-link. So I think, look, the cross-link relationship is starting to really come into play. The way we look at our data, anytime we've had an overlap with a Crosslink counterpart, we view that as a Crosslink account versus an account that we're in, let's say, or a hospital system we're in where Crosslink is not.

是的，不，我很抱歉。我正要談論交叉鏈接。所以我認為，交叉連結關係開始真正發揮作用。我們看待數據的方式是，任何時候我們與 Crosslink 對應方出現重疊時，我們都會將其視為 Crosslink 帳戶與我們所在的帳戶（比如說，我們所在的醫院系統，而 Crosslink 不在）之間的對比。

And what I can tell you is that those accounts are growing at about a 30% higher rate than our sort of normal, you know, standalone business, if you will. And so we think that's just going to continue. I mean, with van, and again, as we get better at this and we better coordinate with our crossing counterparts, we see, you know, sort of upside as we move into the 200-milligram launching later in the year. And as we kind of move into kind of mid-year, the third quarter,

我可以告訴你們的是，這些帳戶的成長速度比我們正常的獨立業務高出約 30%。因此我們認為這種情況將會持續下去。我的意思是，隨著我們在這方面做得越來越好，以及我們與過境同行更好地協調，我們看到，當我們在今年晚些時候進入 200 毫克的發射時，會有某種好處。隨著我們進入年中，也就是第三季度，

I think this is really going to start to get much more efficient. I mean, again, we just, we've got 800 people out there that are just really starting with the van pretty much now. and the coordination of all that I think is coming together nicely. But the growth we've experienced so far has been much different than we had in the past, and I think that's going to continue.

我認為這確實會開始變得更有效率。我的意思是，我們現在有 800 人剛開始使用這輛貨車。我認為所有一切的協調都進展得很順利。但我們迄今為止經歷的成長與過去大不相同，我認為這種情況將會持續下去。

Okay. And then from an OpEx perspective for 2025, should we expect some slattish growth versus 2024? Yeah.

好的。那麼從 2025 年的營運支出角度來看，我們是否應該預期與 2024 年相比會出現一些緩慢的成長？是的。

It will be a little higher than 2024 just because of the R&D spend for PFS that we didn't see in 2024, and then some of the legal expenses as we are trying to settle some of these cases that we have outstanding. So overall, the remaining business really remains flat, but those are the two items that might increase office a little bit in 2025 or 2024. Got it. Thank you.

這個數字將略高於 2024 年，因為我們在 2024 年沒有看到 PFS 的研發支出，而且由於我們正試圖解決一些未決案件，因此還會產生一些法律費用。因此總體而言，剩餘業務實際上保持平穩，但這兩個項目可能會在 2025 年或 2024 年略微增加辦公室業務。知道了。謝謝。

Thank you so much. And one moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Carl Burns of Northland Capital Markets. Your line is now open.

太感謝了。請稍等片刻，回答我們的下一個問題。我們的下一個問題來自 Northland Capital Markets 的 Carl Burns。您的線路現已開通。

Congratulations on the progress and thanks for the question, or questions rather. So you had a really nice bump with Zimberlab at $8.5 million. Do you expect kind of a similar bump in the first quarter given the timing of no pain and given the timing of the van approval?

恭喜您取得進展並感謝您提出問題，或更確切地說是問題。所以，Zimberlab 的估值達到了 850 萬美元，這真是一個不錯的成績。考慮到無痛苦的時間和貨車批准的時間，您是否預計第一季會出現類似的增長？

And then if you can maybe sort of extrapolate a little bit more with the number of crosslink reps that have been trained to market the van, and how you see that potentially hitting an inflection point in the second half of the year in terms of significantly accelerating ZYNRELEF sales. And to the same extent with respect at Pombing. Thanks.

然後，如果您可以根據接受過培訓來推銷這款貨車的交聯代表的數量進行進一步推斷，您認為下半年 ZYNRELEF 的銷售可能會達到一個轉折點，從而顯著加速銷售。這與 Pombing 的情況相同。謝謝。

Yeah, no, Carl, as we had said, I think currently we're at right around 800 or approximately 800 crosslink reps, and that last sort of 100-ish were sort of coming together in Q4. So again, as we come out of, into 25, this is when this is beginning to, we think it's starting to hit on all cylinders that we kind of move into the year. So that's kind of where that sits currently.

是的，不，卡爾，正如我們所說的那樣，我認為目前我們大約有 800 個或大約 800 個交叉連結代表，而最後的 100 個左右是在第四季度聚集在一起的。因此，當我們走出 25 歲，這就是開始的時候，我們認為它開始在各個方面都發揮出最佳水平，我們即將進入新的一年。這就是目前的情況。

Again, as Crosslink is coming on board and we kind of look at from Q4 to to Q1, I mean you typically have some seasonality and co-pay resets and that type of thing that you know that. Have historically flattened the market. What I can tell you is that we are currently, when I look at like daily average sales, we are actually higher thus far in Q1 than we were in Q4.

再次，隨著 Crosslink 的加入，我們從第四季度到第一季進行觀察，我的意思是，您通常會有一些季節性和共同支付重置之類的事情，這是您知道的。從歷史上看，市場已經趨於平緩。我可以告訴你的是，目前，當我查看每日平均銷售額時，我們第一季的銷售額實際上高於第四季度。

So again, we're hoping that continues. Obviously, the market's a little bit less in surgeries as a whole in Q1, but I mean we're anticipating continuing to grow.

因此，我們再次希望這種情況能夠持續下去。顯然，第一季整個市場的手術量略有減少，但我的意思是我們預計手術量將繼續增長。

And so, as we kind of look more towards, mid-year, again, I think as we launched the 200 mg van. A with the no pain really starting to kick in, I think getting more noise. This is really where we see the inflection happening. And so the other thing that Crosslink does for us is that as they come on board more and can take our places in the surgeries and are more comfortable with the product, it allows for our reps to really get out of these, surgeries on a daily basis, and Crosslink becomes our eyes and ears.

因此，當我們再次將目光投向年中時，我想我們將會推出 200 毫克的貨車。隨著疼痛感開始真正顯現，我認為噪音會越來越大。這確實是我們看到的轉捩點。Crosslink 為我們做的另一件事是，隨著他們越來越多地加入進來，能夠代替我們進行手術，並且對產品更加滿意，我們的銷售代表可以真正地每天擺脫這些手術，而 Crosslink 則成為我們的眼睛和耳朵。

And so therefore it really allows our reps to get out and not only find more surgeons. And other folks in the hospital, going as far as deeper and wider, if you will, in an institution, but it also allows us to spend more time with the Pon B. And again, we're feeling very confident we're going to continue to grow the Pon B at a much different rate.

因此，它確實讓我們的銷售代表走出去，不僅可以找到更多的外科醫生。就像醫院裡的其他人一樣，如果你願意的話，在機構中走得更深更廣，但它也讓我們花更多的時間在 Pon B 上。而且，我們非常有信心，我們將繼續以不同的速度發展 Pon B。

And if you think about the ability with the Poni to really do systematic wins, our issue has been thus far is really getting our representatives out of the OR and allow them to do more pull through with the product. And again, we think with crossing that's going to, help with that extremely.

如果你考慮到 Poni 真正實現系統性勝利的能力，那麼到目前為止，我們的問題實際上是讓我們的代表走出 OR，並讓他們對產品進行更多的改進。而且，我們認為交叉將會大大幫助解決這個問題。

Excellent. So I mean, it's very clear that there's a shift in terms of obviously the growth coming from the acute care products with the CAMD products really being kind of a cash cow that supports cash flow and just one follow on question if you've got any thoughts with respect to the Baker Brothers debt. Thanks.

出色的。所以我的意思是，很明顯，成長顯然來自急性護理產品，而 CAMD 產品實際上是一種支持現金流的搖錢樹，如果您對貝克兄弟債務有任何想法，我只想問一個後續問題。謝謝。

Yeah, no, we've, I mean, with the Baker brothers, obviously they're a large demo for us and we've been a great partner. We've continued to meet with them on a quarterly basis. I think as we now approach, sort of the May 26th time frame, we intend to meet with them again we wanted to get, our quarter announcement and so forth and really feel like with the where the business is going.

是的，不，我的意思是，我們和貝克兄弟合作，顯然他們對我們來說是一個很大的示範，而且我們是一個很好的合作夥伴。我們每季都會與他們會面。我認為，隨著 5 月 26 日時間的臨近，我們打算再次與他們會面，我們希望獲得季度公告等，並真正了解業務的發展方向。

We're hoping all of our investors will be excited, but we should be meeting with them very soon and to talk about options with the convert and sort of where we can go from there.

我們希望所有投資者都會感到興奮，但我們應該很快就會與他們會面，討論轉換選項以及我們可以採取的措施。

Yeah, and I would imagine with the symbiotic litigation largely out of the way, that kind of opens the door to discussions.

是的，我可以想像，隨著共生訴訟基本上結束，這將為討論打開大門。

Thanks. Yeah, no, that's been a, you know, obviously it was an unknown, but I think now that we have clarity around that, and again, even, you know, the Milan case is very similar to what we faced with Fresenius, and so we feel very confident about that. But yeah, it's certainly going to help those discussions.

謝謝。是的，不，這顯然是一個未知數，但我認為現在我們已經清楚了這一點，而且，你知道，米蘭的情況與我們面臨的費森尤斯非常相似，所以我們對此非常有信心。但是，是的，它肯定會對這些討論有所幫助。

Excellent. Thanks for the questions, and congrats again.

出色的。感謝您的提問，再次恭喜。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thank you so much. And again, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one, one. And our next question comes from the line of Clara Dong of Jefferies. Your line is now open.

太感謝了。再次強調，如果您想提問，請按星號 1，1。我們的下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Clara Dong。您的線路現已開通。

Hi, team. Congrats on the progress for the quarter. So just wondering, you know, Since the launch of Xenrolab then in mid-December, it seems like the ramp-up is going pretty well. So, could you give us an update on where you're at for the pre-fill syringe for Xenrolab? Thank you.

大家好。恭喜本季取得的進展。所以只是想知道，自從 12 月中旬推出 Xenrolab 以來，似乎進展順利。那麼，您能否向我們介紹一下 Xenrolab 預充式註射器的最新進展？謝謝。

Yes, thanks, Claire. Bill Forbes is dialing into the call. I'll let Bill answer that as far as the development path there and where that stands.

是的，謝謝，克萊爾。比爾·福布斯正在撥打電話。我會讓比爾來回答那裡的發展道路和現狀。

Hi, good morning. Thank you for your question.

嗨，早安。感謝您的提問。

Yeah, just as a form of update, obviously we're extremely pleased with the rollout of the van. I mean, the device development people that we have have been have been watching that very closely as their commercial partners have been moving that through. As we turn our attention to the prefilled syringe, I'll just kind of recap a little bit about what I spoke on at the investor day meeting last year.

是的，作為一種更新，我們顯然對這款貨車的推出感到非常高興。我的意思是，我們的設備開發人員一直在密切關注這一點，因為他們的商業夥伴一直在推動這一點。當我們將注意力轉向預充式註射器時，我將稍微回顧一下我在去年投資者日會議上所談論的內容。

So one of the things that we have to be careful of with ZYNRELEF is moisture content. So, about a year ago we put up a kind of a demo batch on stability, and we've reached the nine-month part of that, and we've been extremely happy with how that stability and that demo batch has been going.

因此，使用 ZYNRELEF 時我們必須注意的一件事就是水分含量。大約一年前，我們推出了一系列穩定性演示，目前已進行了九個月，我們對穩定性和演示的進展感到非常滿意。

So, with that we've increased our confidence in this program greatly. But we're looking for trying to launch it to the market somewhere near the end of 2026 in the first half of 2027. So, I mean, we continue to make progress on that and if you have any other questions, happy to entertain them.

因此，我們對該計劃的信心大大增強。但我們希望在 2026 年底或 2027 年上半年左右將其推向市場。所以，我的意思是，我們在這方面繼續取得進展，如果您有任何其他問題，我們很樂意為您解答。

Appreciate. It. Thank you.

欣賞。它。謝謝。

Thank you so much, Clara. And I don't see any questions on cue. I would like to turn the conference back to Craig Collard, CEO for closing remarks.

非常感謝，克拉拉。我沒有看到任何提示問題。我想請執行長 Craig Collard 致閉幕詞。

Thank you, operator. Look, we appreciate everyone joining the call today. We're obviously very excited about where we are, as a company and, the foundation we've built here and how we move into 2025. So, we look forward to talking to everyone next quarter. Thank you.

謝謝您，接線生。瞧，我們感謝今天參加電話會議的每個人。顯然，我們對公司目前的狀況、我們在這裡建立的基礎以及我們如何邁向 2025 年感到非常興奮。因此，我們期待下個季度與大家交談。謝謝。

Thank you so much for centers and this includes today's conference calls. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect. Have a great day.

非常感謝你們的中心，包括今天的電話會議。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。祝你有美好的一天。