Houlihan Lokey Inc (HLI) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Houlihan Lokey's fourth quarter and fiscal year 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference call is being recorded today, May 7, 2025.

女士們、先生們，大家好，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 Houlihan Lokey 第四季和 2025 財年財年財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，本次電話會議將於今天（2025 年 5 月 7 日）進行錄音。

I will now turn the call over to the company.

我現在將把電話轉給公司。

Thank you, operator, and hello, everyone. By now, everyone should have access to our fourth quarter and fiscal year 2025 earnings release, which can be found on the Houlihan Lokey website at www.hl.com in the Investor Relations section.

謝謝接線員，大家好。現在，每個人都應該可以看到我們 2025 財年第四季和全年財報，可以在 Houlihan Lokey 網站 www.hl.com 的「投資者關係」部分找到。

Before we begin our formal remarks, we need to remind everyone that the discussion today will include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements, which are usually identified by use of words such as will, expect, anticipate, should or other similar phrases are not guarantees of future performance. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from what we expect, and therefore, you should exercise caution when interpreting and relying on them.

在我們開始正式發言之前，我們需要提醒大家，今天的討論將包括前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述通常使用「將」、「期望」、「預期」、「應該」或其他類似詞語來表示，但並不保證未來的表現。這些聲明受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與我們的預期有重大差異，因此，您在解釋和依賴這些聲明時應謹慎行事。

We refer all of you to our recent SEC filings for a more detailed discussion of the risks that could impact our future operating results and financial condition. We encourage investors to review our regulatory filings, including the Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2025 when it is filed with the SEC.

我們請大家參閱我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以便更詳細地討論可能影響我們未來經營業績和財務狀況的風險。我們鼓勵投資者查看我們的監管文件，包括向美國證券交易委員會提交的截至 2025 年 3 月 31 日的財政年度的 10-K 表格。

During today's call, we will discuss non-GAAP financial measures, which we believe can be useful in evaluating the company's financial performance. These measures should not be considered in isolation or as a substitute for our financial results prepared in accordance with GAAP. A reconciliation of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is available in our earnings release and our investor presentation on the hl.com website.

在今天的電話會議中，我們將討論非公認會計準則財務指標，我們認為這些指標有助於評估公司的財務表現。這些措施不應被孤立地考慮或取代我們根據 GAAP 編制的財務結果。我們的收益報告和 hl.com 網站上的投資者介紹中提供了這些指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對帳表。

Hosting the call today, we have Scott Adelson, Houlihan Lokey's Chief Executive Officer; and Lindsey Alley, Chief Financial Officer. They will provide some opening remarks and then we will open the call to questions.

今天主持電話會議的有 Houlihan Lokey 的執行長 Scott Adelson；以及財務長 Lindsey Alley。他們將發表一些開場白，然後我們將開始提問。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Scott.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給史考特。

Thank you, Christopher. Welcome, everyone, to our fourth quarter and fiscal year 2025 earnings call. We ended the quarter with revenues of $666 million and adjusted earnings per share of $1.96. Revenues for the quarter were up 28% and adjusted earnings per share were up 54% compared to the same quarter last year.

謝謝你，克里斯多福。歡迎大家參加我們的 2025 財年第四季和財報電話會議。本季結束時，我們的營收為 6.66 億美元，調整後每股收益為 1.96 美元。本季營收與去年同期相比成長 28%，調整後每股收益成長 54%。

We ended the fiscal year 2025 with $2.4 billion in revenues, the highest annual revenue in the firm's history of 25% versus last year and surpassing our high water revenue mark in fiscal year 2022. Both financial restructuring and financial and valuation advisory produce record revenues for the year. And our corporate finance business had its second best year ever.

2025 財年結束時，我們的收入為 24 億美元，這是公司歷史上最高的年收入，比去年增長了 25%，並且超過了 2022 財年的最高水收入記錄。財務重組以及財務和估值諮詢均創造了年度創紀錄的收入。我們的企業融資業務取得了有史以來第二好的成績。

A significant driver of our growth has been our ability to execute on acquisitions. This year was our most active year ever, closing three acquisitions that altogether expanded our industry, geographic, and product reach. Acquisitions continue to be an important component of our overall growth strategy, and we're pleased with how well they are performing, demonstrating the success of our strategy.

我們成長的一個重要驅動力是我們執行收購的能力。今年是我們有史以來最活躍的一年，完成了三項收購，全面擴展了我們的產業、地理和產品覆蓋範圍。收購仍然是我們整體成長策略的重要組成部分，我們對收購的良好表現感到滿意，這證明了我們策略的成功。

Key indicators in our corporate finance business outside the US continue to move upward in the fourth quarter. The average size of our transactions and the average transaction fee continue to grow. And the quality of our senior hires and importantly, our overall brand perception strengthened.

我們在美國以外企業融資業務的關鍵指標在第四季持續上升。我們交易的平均規模和平均交易費用持續成長。我們的高階員工的素質以及更重要的是我們的整體品牌認知度得到了加強。

Finally, we had a record year in our capital markets business, now rebranded as Capital Solutions to better reflect the breadth of our offerings. This business is a strategic and expanding part of corporate finance, significantly enhancing our platform with diversified, high growth, and less volatile revenues.

最後，我們的資本市場業務取得了創紀錄的一年，現在更名為資本解決方案，以更好地反映我們產品的廣度。該業務是企業融資中具有戰略意義且不斷擴展的一部分，透過多元化、高成長和波動較小的收入，顯著增強了我們的平台。

Looking back at the fourth quarter, all three of our business lines perform well, particularly in a challenging economic environment. Corporate finance continue to see improving metrics in the fourth quarter, while our cyclical service lines in FDA also perform well in a volatile market. Our financial restructuring business had a strong fourth quarter to close the year, reinforcing our view that fiscal year 2026 could also see elevated revenues in financial restructuring.

回顧第四季度，我們的三條業務線均表現良好，尤其是在充滿挑戰的經濟環境下。企業財務指標在第四季度繼續改善，而我們在 FDA 的周期性服務線在動盪的市場中也表現良好。我們的財務重組業務在第四季度表現強勁，為今年畫上了圓滿的句號，這強化了我們的觀點：2026 財年的財務重組收入也可能會增加。

We hired four Managing Directors in the fourth quarter, bringing our total hired and acquired for the fiscal year to 37. And we are also pleased to announce that we have promoted 16 colleagues to Managing Director in our current quarter. I would like to congratulate all our new partners and promotes and wish them success in the coming years.

我們在第四季度聘請了四名董事總經理，使我們本財年聘請和獲得的董事總經理總數達到 37 名。我們也很高興地宣布，本季我們已將 16 位同事提升為董事總經理。我要祝賀我們所有的新合作夥伴和推廣者，並祝福他們在未來幾年取得成功。

I'm incredibly proud that we delivered strong results in a market environment like this. These results are a testament to our business strategy, our diversified business model, and the perseverance of our colleagues around the globe.

我為我們在這樣的市場環境下取得強勁業績感到無比自豪。這些成果證明了我們的經營策略、多角化經營模式以及全球同事的毅力。

We begin the new fiscal year with momentum across all our product lines, even as the early weeks have been marked by turmoil in global markets and the economy. And although current volatility makes meaningful forecasts for the weeks and months ahead more difficult, our business model is built to handle volatile market conditions like what we are experiencing today. There will be winners and losers in this market environment, and our business model is set up to advise both.

儘管在最初幾週全球市場和經濟經歷了動盪，但我們在新財年伊始，所有產品線都保持了強勁發展勢頭。儘管當前的波動使得對未來幾週和幾個月的預測更加困難，但我們的商業模式是為了應對我們今天所經歷的動盪的市場狀況而建立的。在這樣的市場環境中，會有贏家和輸家，而我們的商業模式就是為這兩種情況提供建議。

I would like to thank our more than 2,700 employees for continuing to deliver excellence to our clients and to one another as well as our clients and our shareholders who continue to support us with confidence as we are committed to building the best investment banking advisory business in the world.

我要感謝我們 2,700 多名員工繼續為我們的客戶、彼此以及我們的客戶和股東提供卓越的服務，他們在我們致力於打造全球最佳投資銀行諮詢業務的過程中繼續充滿信心地支持我們。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Lindsey.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給 Lindsey。

Thank you, Scott. Revenues in corporate finance were $413 million for the quarter, up 44% compared to the same quarter last year. We closed 147 transactions this quarter, up from 121 in the same period last year, and our average transaction fee increased.

謝謝你，斯科特。本季企業融資收入為 4.13 億美元，較去年同期成長 44%。本季我們完成了 147 筆交易，高於去年同期的 121 筆，平均交易費用也有所增加。

Corporate finance exhibited the typical seasonality we see in this business, which revenues declining slightly compared to the third quarter. We expect fiscal 2026 to exhibit similar seasonality to fiscal 2025, assuming similar market conditions remain throughout the year. Financial restructuring revenues were $165 million for the quarter, a 6% increase versus the same period last year. We closed 38 transactions this quarter compared to 35 in the same quarter last year, and our average transaction fee on closed deals increased.

企業融資表現出我們在該行業中看到的典型季節性，其收入與第三季相比略有下降。假設全年市場狀況保持相似，我們預計 2026 財年將呈現與 2025 財年類似的季節性。本季財務重組營收為 1.65 億美元，較去年同期成長 6%。本季我們完成了 38 筆交易，而去年同期為 35 筆，已完成交易的平均交易費用有所增加。

As in previous years, financial restructuring closed out the fiscal year with a strong fourth quarter. For financial and valuation advisory, revenues were $89 million for the quarter, a 15% increase from the same period last year. We had 1,224 fee events during the quarter compared to 1,025 in the same period last year. FDA ended the year with a strong fourth quarter, performing well in a challenging environment.

與往年一樣，財務重組以強勁的第四季度結束了本財年。就財務和估值諮詢而言，本季營收為 8,900 萬美元，比去年同期成長 15%。本季我們發生了 1,224 起費用事件，而去年同期發生了 1,025 起。FDA 以強勁的第四季度結束了這一財年，在充滿挑戰的環境中表現良好。

Turning to expenses. Our adjusted compensation expenses were $410 million for the quarter versus $320 million for the same period last year. Our only adjustment was $21 million for deferred retention payments related to certain acquisitions. In both fiscal 2025 and 2024, our adjusted compensation expense ratio for the fourth quarter and fiscal year was 61.5%. We expect to maintain our target of 61.5% for this ratio in fiscal 2026.

談到費用。本季我們的調整後薪資支出為 4.1 億美元，去年同期為 3.2 億美元。我們唯一的調整是與某些收購相關的遞延保留付款 2,100 萬美元。在 2025 財年及 2024 財年，我們第四季和財年的調整後薪資費用率均為 61.5%。我們預計在 2026 財年將這一比例維持在 61.5% 的目標水準。

Our adjusted non-compensation expenses increased to $85 million for the quarter compared to $81 million for the same period last year. This resulted in an adjusted non-compensation expense ratio of 12.8% for the quarter compared to 15.6% for the same period last year and the fiscal 2025 adjusted non-compensation ratio of 13.8% versus 16.4% for the same period last year.

本季我們調整後的非薪資支出增至 8,500 萬美元，去年同期為 8,100 萬美元。這導致本季調整後非薪酬費用率為 12.8%，去年同期為 15.6%，2025 財年調整後非薪酬率為 13.8%，去年同期為 16.4%。

On a per employee basis, our adjusted non-compensation expense for the quarter was $32,000 versus $31,000 for the same quarter last year. And we ended the fiscal year at $124,000 per employee versus $121,000 for the same period last year. We expect our adjusted non-compensation expense to grow in the high single digits for fiscal 2026 as we continue to increase headcount, make investments in technology, and invest in our brand across the globe.

以每位員工計算，本季我們調整後的非薪資支出為 32,000 美元，而去年同期為 31,000 美元。本財年結束時，我們的每位員工的薪酬為 124,000 美元，而去年同期為 121,000 美元。隨著我們繼續增加員工人數、在技術上進行投資以及在全球範圍內投資我們的品牌，我們預計 2026 財年的調整後非薪酬支出將以高個位數增長。

For the quarter, we adjusted out of our non-compensation expenses $9.7 million in non-cash acquisition-related amortization and $1.8 million pertaining to professional fees associated with streamlining our global organizational structure referred to as Project Solo.

本季度，我們從非薪資支出中調整了 970 萬美元的非現金收購相關攤銷，以及 180 萬美元與精簡全球組織結構（稱為 Project Solo）相關的專業費用。

Our adjusted other income and expense produced income of approximately $9 million versus income of approximately $6 million in the same period last year. The improvement was primarily due to an increase in dividend and other income generated by our investment securities. We adjusted out of our other income and expense a gain of approximately $2 million related to the reduction in value of an earn-out liability associated with one of our prior acquisitions.

我們調整後的其他收入和支出產生的收入約為 900 萬美元，而去年同期的收入約為 600 萬美元。這一改善主要歸因於我們的投資證券產生的股息和其他收入的增加。我們從其他收入和支出中調整了約 200 萬美元的收益，這與我們先前收購相關的獲利負債價值的減少有關。

We treat all acquisition-related earn-outs as purchase price and adjust out of our P&L any significant changes in the value of these earn-outs. We had strong performance in this line item in fiscal 2025 as interest rate remained elevated throughout the year. Performance in fiscal 2026 will be directly related to the level of interest rates around the globe.

我們將所有與收購相關的獲利視為購買價格，並從我們的損益表中調整這些獲利價值的任何重大變化。由於全年利率維持高位，我們在 2025 財年的這個專案中表現強勁。2026財年的業績將與全球利率水準直接相關。

Our adjusted effective tax rate for the quarter was 24.5% compared to 29.9% for the same quarter last year. The decrease in our adjusted effective tax rate was a result of lower-than-expected state taxes and lower non-deductible expenses. We ended fiscal 2025 with an adjusted effective tax rate of 29.8% versus 29.5% in fiscal 2024.

本季調整後有效稅率為 24.5%，去年同期為 29.9%。調整後有效稅率的下降是由於州稅低於預期以及不可扣除費用降低。截至 2025 財年，我們的調整後有效稅率為 29.8%，而 2024 財年為 29.5%。

For the fourth quarter, we adjusted out of our effective tax rate the effects of a successful local tax audit, acquisition-related non-deductible expenses, and the partial reversal of a tax benefit from stock vesting.

第四季度，我們根據成功的地方稅務審計、收購相關的不可扣除費用以及股票歸屬稅收優惠的部分逆轉的影響，調整了有效稅率。

In fiscal 2026, we will no longer exclude the effect of our deferred compensation shares vesting in the first quarter from our effective tax rate. This will result in a benefit to our adjusted effective tax rate in the first quarter of fiscal 2026 and a lower adjusted effective tax rate for next year, assuming all else remains equal.

在 2026 財年，我們將不再將第一季歸屬的遞延薪酬股份的影響排除在我們的有效稅率之外。假設其他條件保持不變，這將使我們 2026 財年第一季的調整後有效稅率受益，並降低明年的調整後有效稅率。

Turning to the balance sheet. As of quarter end, we had approximately $1.2 billion of unrestricted cash and equivalents and investment securities. As a reminder, a significant portion of our cash is earmarked to cover accrued but unpaid bonuses for fiscal year 2025 that will be paid this month and in November. Shares issued this month as part of our fiscal 2025 compensation will vest into the fully diluted share count over a four-year period from the date issued.

轉向資產負債表。截至季末，我們擁有約 12 億美元的非限制現金及等價物和投資證券。提醒一下，我們的現金很大一部分被指定用於支付 2025 財年累積但未支付的獎金，這些獎金將於本月和 11 月支付。作為我們 2025 財年薪酬的一部分，本月發行的股票將在發行之日起四年內歸屬為完全稀釋的股票數量。

In our fourth quarter of fiscal 2025, we repurchased approximately 371,000 shares as part of our share repurchase program. We expect to continue our long-term objective of repurchasing shares through the open market and withhold to cover to offset the eventual dilution associated with the issuance of deferred compensation shares in May.

在 2025 財年第四季度，作為股票回購計畫的一部分，我們回購了約 371,000 股。我們預計將繼續透過公開市場回購股票的長期目標，並扣留以抵消與 5 月發行遞延補償股票相關的最終稀釋。

Finally, the Board approved a 5.3% increase to our quarterly dividend to $0.60 per share. The dividend will be paid in June.

最後，董事會批准將季度股息提高 5.3% 至每股 0.60 美元。股息將於六月支付。

With that, operator, we can open the line for questions.

接線員，這樣我們就可以開通問答熱線了。

(Operator Instructions) Brandon O'Brien, Wolfe Research.

（操作員指示） Brandon O'Brien，Wolfe Research。

I guess just to start, I understand that it's difficult to forecast near term just given the volatility, but I was hoping you could help frame how revenues have been tracking quarter-to-date and whether there's been any dispersion between some of your sponsor and strategic clients.

我想首先，我知道考慮到波動性，很難預測短期情況，但我希望您能幫助描述本季度迄今為止的收入走勢，以及您的一些贊助商和戰略客戶之間是否存在差距。

It really is too early to be able to give you any meaningful indication. And I mean I think I said it in the prepared remarks. It is just -- it is a more difficult environment to be predicting the future in. There's no doubt about that. Having said that, I can certainly say that there -- things are continuing to move in terms of pitch-level activity and deals moving through processes at a pretty normal rate.

現在給你任何有意義的暗示還為時過早。我的意思是，我認為我在準備好的發言中已經說過了。只是——在這樣的環境下預測未來會更加困難。毫無疑問。話雖如此，我可以肯定地說，就投標層面的活動和交易流程而言，事情正在繼續以相當正常的速度發展。

I mean -- and as we've been saying for a very long time now, things have been getting better, not month by month, but quarter by quarter. And this is an environment where it's still unclear exactly all the ramifications of what has occurred. But what is clear is there are certain sectors that are far more impacted than others and certain geographies that are more impacted than others.

我的意思是——正如我們很久以來所說的那樣，情況一直在好轉，不是逐月好轉，而是逐季度好轉。目前，我們仍不清楚目前所發生事件的具體後果。但可以肯定的是，某些行業受到的影響比其他行業大得多，某些地區受到的影響比其他地區要大得多。

As for my follow-up, you alluded to this a bit in response to the question, but a theme that started to emerge a bit is that there's some bifurcation in the M&A market between sectors that are more or less impacted by tariffs. Just want to get a sense as to what you're seeing across the different sectors within your own business. I know you're very large in industrials, which feels like an area that might be disproportionately impacted by the tariff implementation.

至於我的後續問題，您在回答這個問題時稍微提到了這一點，但開始出現的一個主題是，併購市場中受關稅影響或多或少的行業之間存在一些分歧。只是想了解一下您在自己的企業中看到的不同領域的情況。我知道你們在工業領域規模很大，感覺這個領域可能會受到關稅實施的不成比例的影響。

Yes. I mean I think, again, you can't even paint all industrials with one brush. And I think that tends to be people's desires to say the tariffs are impacting everything. First, you got to start with that is a fairly US-centric view of the world. I will tell you the example I've been giving.

是的。我的意思是，我認為你甚至不能用一種筆觸來描繪所有的工業。我認為人們往往希望說關稅影響一切。首先，你必須明白這是以美國為中心的世界觀。我會告訴你我一直舉的例子。

If we're selling a pasta company in Italy that doesn't sell in the US, it's not overly impacted by tariffs, right? That's just not relevant to it. So that would be an example. On the other hand, there certainly are components of things like industrials that are more impacted. And so it is sector by sector and geography by geography.

如果我們出售一家在義大利的義大利麵公司，而該公司的產品在美國沒有銷售，那麼它不會受到關稅的過度影響，對嗎？這與它無關。這就是一個例子。另一方面，工業等行業的某些部分肯定會受到更大的影響。所以這是根據各行業、各地區的情況而定的。

James Yaro, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的詹姆斯·亞羅。

Scott, really excellent restructuring results again. Could you help us think through the moving parts of restructuring here in terms of liability management versus Chapter 11? And then has anything that has happened over the past few weeks affected your outlook that you've given previously, which I think was a strong multi-year restructuring cycle?

斯科特，重組結果再次確實非常出色。您能否幫助我們從負債管理與第 11 章的角度思考重組的各個面向？那麼，過去幾週發生的任何事情是否影響了您先前給予的展望？我認為這是一個強大的多年重組週期？

Yes. I think we've said that we expect restructuring to remain at elevated levels, and that is continuing. And certainly, based upon more recent events, I think that only gives us more confidence in those statements. And in terms of mix, again, we've talked about this a lot over time. To us, these are all just restructurings.

是的。我想我們已經說過，我們預計重組將保持在較高水平，而且這種情況仍在繼續。當然，根據最近發生的事件，我認為這只會讓我們對這些聲明更有信心。關於混合，我們長期以來已經多次討論過這個問題。對我們來說，這些都只是重組。

How they wind up manifesting themselves is a little less relevant, quite honestly. And we don't -- we never know exactly going into a situation how it will result, whether it will be liability management or a chapter or distressed financing or whatever the case may be. But we can certainly say that we continue to see a good level of activity in the restructuring arena.

坦白說，他們最終如何表現自己並不那麼重要。而我們永遠不知道究竟會出現什麼結果，是債務管理、破產、不良融資還是其他任何情況。但我們可以肯定地說，我們繼續看到重組領域的良好活動水平。

And James, I know I said this in my comments, but given that you asked the question, I'll put an exclamation point on it. We tend to see a very strong fourth quarter restructuring year after year after year. And so that is not necessarily a reflection of what each quarter is going to look like next year. So I encourage everyone to take a look at the seasonality, if you will, of the business over the last couple of years and think through that in terms of how you think of fiscal '26.

詹姆斯，我知道我在評論中說過這個，但考慮到你問了這個問題，我會在上面加一個感嘆號。我們往往會看到年復一年第四季出現非常強勁的重組。因此，這並不一定反映明年每季的情況。因此，我鼓勵大家看看過去幾年業務的季節性，並從如何看待 26 財年的角度來思考這個問題。

Yes, yes, that makes sense. Yes, I was just referring to the fact that it was up 6% year on year. That's really, really helpful. Could I just ask another one, on a somewhat different topic, which is related to private equity firms and the fact that it appears that small private equity is having a harder time raising capital than some of the very largest sponsor firms. So you obviously have strong relationships with the smaller sponsors, but you've also increased your average deal size over the past few years.

是的，是的，這很有道理。是的，我剛才指的是它比去年同期成長了 6%。這真的非常有幫助。我能否再問一個稍微不同的話題，這個話題與私募股權公司有關，事實上，小型私募股權公司似乎比一些最大的發起公司更難籌集資金。因此，您顯然與較小的贊助商保持著密切的關係，但在過去幾年中，您的平均交易規模也增加了。

So maybe you could just talk about what you're seeing in terms of those fundraising trends and what that means for the sorts of clients that you're servicing and whether those have evolved and perhaps need to evolve going forward.

因此，也許您可以談談您所看到的籌款趨勢，以及這對您所服務的客戶類型意味著什麼，以及這些趨勢是否已經發生了變化，或者是否需要在未來繼續發展。

I mean I think it's safe to say that the primary fundraising business has been constrained for the past couple of years. No doubt about it. No great surprise because there has not been an adequate level of recycling of capital. So that I would -- I still believe and we certainly continue to see meaningful dollars flow to the broadly defined alternative asset class, but the capital that is allocated to private equity needs to come back to be recycled. So that doesn't really surprise me a great deal.

我的意思是，我認為可以肯定地說，過去幾年主要籌款業務受到了限制。毫無疑問。這並不奇怪，因為資本循環利用程度還不夠。所以我會——我仍然相信，我們肯定會繼續看到大量資金流向廣義的另類資產類別，但分配給私募股權的資本需要回來回收。所以這實際上並沒有讓我感到太驚訝。

Having said that, we see those voids being filled in many different ways. And you see that in continuation vehicles. You see it in direct. I mean there's lots of different sources of capital besides -- that are available to the private equity community above and beyond just incremental new funds.

話雖如此，我們看到這些空白正在以許多不同的方式被填補。您可以在續行車輛中看到這一點。您可以直接看到它。我的意思是，除了新增資金之外，私募股權界還有很多不同的資金來源。

Ben Rubin, UBS.

瑞銀的本·魯賓。

I was hoping to double-click on Corporate Finance. Obviously, a great deal of optimism coming into this year around the pickup in M&A and IPOs. So I just wanted to get your general thoughts on the backdrop for cap markets. Does the outlook kind of differ as you move between the middle market, which is kind of your core business versus large-scale M&A?

我希望雙擊“公司財務”。顯然，人們對今年併購和 IPO 的回升抱有很大的樂觀情緒。所以我只是想了解一下您對資本市場背景的整體看法。當您轉向中端市場（即您的核心業務）與大規模併購時，前景是否會有所不同？

And then lastly, if you could just comment on how your deal backlog is looking for fiscal year '26 and whether there's been any movement there in recent weeks?

最後，您能否評論一下 2026 財年的交易積壓情況如何，以及最近幾週是否有任何進展？

I'm not sure I understood the first question to be really honest. The second question in terms of our backlogs continue to be strong and growing. And so that continued. That has, for a while, been the case. And it's a matter of, as we've talked about on prior calls, the velocity or throughput of those deals.

說實話，我不確定我是否真正理解了第一個問題。第二個問題涉及我們的積壓訂單持續強勁且不斷成長。事情就這樣一直持續著。這種情況已經持續了一段時間。正如我們在之前的電話會議中討論的那樣，這是一個交易速度或吞吐量的問題。

And we've been saying that has continued to improve. The most recent events does give one possibility that will continue to improve. But certainly, at this point, still feeling comfortable that we're heading in the right direction.

我們一直在說這種情況持續改善。最近發生的事件確實提供了一種將繼續改善的可能性。但可以肯定的是，目前我們仍然確信我們正朝著正確的方向前進。

The first question you may have to ask?

您可能要問的第一個問題是？

Yes, I was just kind of asking how you're viewing -- does the outlook differ in terms of the middle-market M&A versus large-scale M&A as a result of the potential impact of recent volatility.

是的，我只是想問一下您是如何看待的——由於近期波動的潛在影響，中型市場併購和大型併購的前景是否有所不同。

I mean the answer is yes. I mean -- but that is true in every cycle. And I'm a firm believer, when you look at the volume, mid-cap volumes are much more resilient than large-cap volumes. We did go on for a very long time on the reasons why, but you can look through virtually every cycle that is the case.

我的意思是答案是肯定的。我的意思是——但在每個週期都是如此。我堅信，從交易量來看，中型股的交易量比大型股的交易量更具彈性。我們確實花了很長時間來探究其原因，但您幾乎可以查看每一個存在此類情況的周期。

One of the things we love about the differences between us and some of our peers is if you ask that same question to our peers, they'd be able to answer half of it. You ask it of us, and we're able to answer half of it.

我們喜歡我們與一些同齡人之間的差異的原因之一是，如果你向我們的同齡人問同樣的問題，他們能夠回答一半。您向我們提出問題，我們就能回答一半。

Appreciate it. For my second question, obviously, you guys were active in fiscal year '25 on the strategic acquisition front. So I was just hoping if you could share any color on the state of your bolt-on pipeline as we look to fiscal year '26. And is there any areas of white space you're looking to backfill or look more attractive here in your view?

非常感謝。對於我的第二個問題，顯然，你們在 25 財年在策略收購方面非常活躍。所以我只是希望您能分享一下我們展望 26 財年時附加管道的狀況。在您看來，是否有一些空白區域是您想要填補的，或者希望它們看起來更有吸引力？

Yes. I've talked about it on previous calls. We always have a very active dialogue occurring with an array of opportunities, and that is no different today than any other point in time. And we've stated in our prepared remarks and previously how important this is to our strategic direction, and we're continuing to see the benefits of it. So you can expect it to continue.

是的。我在之前的通話中已經討論過這個問題。我們始終在一系列機會中保持非常積極的對話，今天與任何其他時間點都沒有什麼不同。我們在準備好的發言中以及之前都表示過這對我們的策略方向有多重要，而且我們也在繼續看到它的好處。因此你可以期待它繼續下去。

Devin Ryan, Citizens.

德文·瑞安（Devin Ryan），公民。

I want to ask a question first on just the Capital Solutions and kind of the private capital part of the business. Obviously, sponsor M&A still recovering from a pretty low level, but it just seems like there's a lot going on within that community. You have universities now starting to sell positions. LPs more broadly are looking for liquidity, and continuation funds have been really active. So just love to get a sense of kind of the sizing of that business.

我想先問一個有關資本解決方案和業務的私人資本部分的問題。顯然，贊助商併購仍在從相當低的水平中恢復，但似乎該社區內正在發生很多事情。現在大學已經開始出售職位了。LP 普遍在尋求流動性，而延續基金一直非常活躍。所以我很想了解該業務的規模。

If you can give us anything on just kind of contribution in the quarter and what some of the biggest factors are that are driving kind of your results right now and then just kind of how you see that business growing over the next year and really kind of longer term as well, but just love to kind of just dig in a little bit given the confluence of things going on there and within that business as well.

如果您能告訴我們本季度的貢獻，以及目前推動業績的一些最大因素，然後您如何看待該業務在未來一年以及更長期的增長，但考慮到那里和該業務內部正在發生的事情的匯合，我只是喜歡深入挖掘一下。

Yes. As we've stated before and in the remarks, I mean, that continues to be a really growing and significant part of our business, and we feel very good about our position in the market in it. And a lot of the trends that you just articulated are a part of that. I mean there's many components to our now called Capital Solutions group.

是的。正如我們之前和在評論中提到的那樣，我的意思是，這仍然是我們業務中一個真正成長且重要的一部分，我們對自己在該領域的市場地位感到非常滿意。您剛才闡述的許多趨勢都是其中的一部分。我的意思是，我們現在的資本解決方案集團有很多組成部分。

And certainly, the continuation area is just one of those. But there is in an environment like we are in today, clearly needs for different forms of capital to solve various situations, and we are quite active in that area today.

當然，延續區域只是其中之一。但在當今我們所處的環境中，顯然需要不同形式的資本來解決各種情況，而我們目前在該領域非常活躍。

And Devin, you'll see this in our materials. I mean not commenting on the fourth quarter but the whole, call it, financial sponsor community still remains roughly 50% of our client base. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but that doesn't feel any different in Q4 versus the balance of the year.

德文，你會在我們的材料中看到這一點。我的意思不是對第四季度發表評論，而是整個金融贊助商社群仍然占我們客戶群的約 50%。我面前沒有數字，但感覺第四季與今年其他季度相比沒有什麼不同。

Okay. Appreciate that. And then a follow-up here just on restructuring and liability management. I'd love to just kind of think about the capacity to do more in that business today than in the past. So if I look at the number of managing directors, it's up, I think, 35% from COVID time.

好的。非常感謝。然後這裡只是關於重組和負債管理的後續問題。我很想思考一下，與過去相比，我們今天在這項業務上能做更多的事情。因此，如果我看一下董事總經理的數量，我認為自 COVID 時期以來，這一數字增加了 35%。

You're obviously generating strong results today, but we're not really even in a stressed market. So a lot of liability management, a little bit of kind of restructuring. But love to hear about kind of how much bigger you think the contribution could be in a more stressed macroenvironment.

顯然，你們今天取得了強勁的業績，但我們實際上並沒有處於緊張的市場中。因此，需要進行大量的負債管理，以及一些重組。但我很想聽聽您認為在更緊張的宏觀環境下，這種貢獻能有多大。

I'm assuming that the deals would change in size. The fees would be larger, probably more complex. But just based on the team you have today versus the past, kind of how do you think about capacity to do more from here in a, call it, more challenging economy?

我假設交易的規模會改變。費用將會更高，而且可能更加複雜。但是，僅根據您現在的團隊與過去的團隊相比，您認為在更具挑戰性的經濟狀況下，您有能力做更多的事情嗎？

Yes. I mean every cycle is different. But just sharing a little bit of metrics with you, the restructuring folks ended the year at roughly -- it looks like $9.5 million revenue per MD. And during the height of the Great Recession, we were 40% higher than that in revenue per MD. So I mean there is plenty of capacity in restructuring to handle a much larger restructuring environment.

是的。我的意思是每個週期都是不同的。但是，只是與您分享一些指標，重組人員到年底的收入大約為 - 看起來每位 MD 的收入為 950 萬美元。在經濟大衰退最嚴重的時候，我們每位董事總經理的收入比當時高出了 40%。所以我的意思是，重組有足夠的能力來應對更大的重組環境。

I mean you started saying it. What ends up happening is you end up going from an environment where you're hitting singles and doubles to an environment where you're hitting triples and home runs. So you don't necessarily see linear growth in terms of number of transactions that close. You just see higher fees. But from a capacity standpoint, we've seen it much higher than where it was last year.

我的意思是你開始這麼說了。最終發生的情況是，你從一個擊出單打和雙打的環境轉變為一個擊出三壘打和本壘打的環境。因此，您不一定會看到交易完成數量呈線性增長。您只會看到更高的費用。但從容量的角度來看，我們看到它比去年的水平高得多。

Ken Worthington, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的肯‧沃辛頓。

We're doing a round trip around your income statement here. So a big step-up in FVA this quarter and -- after a big step-up in 3Q. So maybe -- we know there's fairness opinions in there, but walk through some of the other items that have sort of come together here to really drive that business and the results in 4Q.

我們正在對您的損益表進行一次回顧。因此，本季的 FVA 大幅提升，並且在第三季大幅提升之後。所以也許——我們知道其中有公平的意見，但請看一下其他一些匯集在這裡的項目，這些項目真正推動了第四季度的業務和業績。

And then maybe bigger picture on the same topic, do you see a more dynamic policy under the new US administration as sort of a tailwind or a headwind for valuation, tax and advisory needs? I assume it's the former, not the -- I'm sorry, yes, the former, not the latter. But I thought I'd throw that one out there, too.

然後，也許從更大的角度來看同一主題，您是否認為新美國政府的更有活力的政策對估值、稅收和諮詢需求來說是順風還是逆風？我認為是前者，而不是──對不起，是的，是前者，而不是後者。但我想我也會把這個丟出去。

Thank you. Appreciate it. I mean I think that what you are beginning to see, you got a number of factors that we've talked about before. You have the less cyclical components of FVA, which is really portfolio valuation, which is a constant grower effectively as the world just continues to be interested in more marks on things and on a more regular basis. You then have the opinion business that is somewhere in between non-cyclical and cyclical and can be impacted more by, if you will, larger fee situations on any given opinion.

謝謝。非常感謝。我的意思是，我認為您開始看到的是我們之前討論過的一些因素。FVA 中的週期性成分較少，實際上就是投資組合估值，隨著世界對更多事物的標記越來越感興趣，並且越來越頻繁，FVA 會持續有效地增長。然後，你就會有介於非週期性和週期性之間的意見業務，如果你願意的話，它會受到任何給定意見的更大費用情況的影響。

And then lastly, you have more of our -- what we call our transaction advisory business, and that is more cyclical. And in the fourth quarter, well, as you can imagine, the transaction advisory services is still ramping back up as M&A continues to be a bit muted. But the others are continuing to grow nicely, and it just all came together.

最後，您擁有更多我們所謂的交易諮詢業務，這是更具週期性的。而在第四季度，正如您所想像的，由於併購活動持續保持低迷，交易諮詢服務仍在回升。但其他的植物都繼續健康生長，一切都順利地融合在一起了。

Ryan Kenny, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的瑞安·肯尼。

So on restructuring, are there any numbers you can share on just how much conversations or mandates have picked up since the beginning of April? Is it a wave of inbounds coming in? Is it more of a modest increase? Is it material enough to really drive the P&L over the next couple of quarters? Just how big of an increase in inbounds are you seeing?

那麼，關於重組，您能否分享一些數據，說明自 4 月初以來對話或授權增加了多少？這是一波入境潮嗎？這是否只是適度成長？它是否足以真正推動未來幾季的損益？您看到入境人數究竟增加了多少？

We're not going to share specific numbers. But look, as you would expect, we've started to have conversations around what's happening in the markets, and whether those end up resulting in restructuring revenues is just too early to tell. I mean it's such a dynamic situation that this could all change in 3 days. So look -- but there are some companies that are concerned about what's happening, and those conversations have started. But we're too early to tell whether they actually have an impact certainly on the next couple of three quarters.

我們不會分享具體的數字。但是，正如你所期望的那樣，我們已經開始討論市場正在發生的事情，而這些事情最終是否會導致收入重組，現在下結論還為時過早。我的意思是，情況非常動態，三天之內一切都可能改變。所以看看——但是有些公司對正在發生的事情感到擔憂，而這些對話已經開始了。但我們現在還無法判斷它們是否真的會對接下來的三個季度產生影響。

Yes. I was going to say in the way restructuring works, we likely wouldn't see that in the next quarter or two anyway.

是的。我想說的是，按照重組的方式，我們很可能不會在下一兩季看到這種情況。

All right. That's helpful. And then as a follow-up on Europe, it sounded like you're a little bit more positive on the non-US side of the business. Is that just tariff driven? Or is there anything else going on behind the surface with regulatory changes that are driving more demand for M&A outside of the US?

好的。這很有幫助。然後作為對歐洲的後續關注，聽起來您對美國以外的業務方面持更積極的態度。這僅僅是關稅驅動的嗎？或者，監管變化背後是否存在其他因素，推動了美國以外地區對併購的需求增加？

I mean, I think we've talked about it before. Our non-US business is just stepwise different than it was a few years ago. And we continue to just gain share in other parts of the world differently even than the US. And when you look at all the disruption that is occurring in the US, obviously, the other parts of the world are impacted by that but in a much more muted basis.

我的意思是，我認為我們之前已經討論過這個問題了。我們的美國以外業務與幾年前相比有了很大的不同。而且我們繼續以不同於美國的方式在世界其他地區獲得市場份額。當你看到美國發生的所有混亂時，顯然世界其他地區也受到了影響，但影響要小得多。

And again, that's another area where our mid-market focus, certainly on the Corporate Finance side, makes it. So a mid-market company in Europe is going to be far less impacted than a large-cap company in Europe due to the actions in the US in most cases.

再次強調，這是我們關注中階市場（當然在企業融資方面）的另一個領域。因此，在大多數情況下，美國採取的行動對歐洲中型市場公司的影響將遠小於歐洲大型市場公司。

(Operator Instructions) All right. We have no further questions in the queue. So I'll hand the call back to Scott for any closing remarks.

（操作員指示）好的。我們沒有其他問題了。因此，我將把電話轉回給斯科特，讓他做最後的總結演講。

Great. Thank you. I want to thank you all for participating in our fourth quarter and fiscal year 2025 earnings call. We look forward to updating everyone on our progress when we discuss our first-quarter results for fiscal 2026 this summer.

偉大的。謝謝。我要感謝大家參加我們的第四季和 2025 財年財報電話會議。我們期待在今年夏天討論 2026 財年第一季業績時向大家通報我們的進展。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's program, and you may disconnect at any time.

謝謝各位，女士們、先生們。今天的節目到此結束，您可以隨時斷開連線。