Hippo Holdings Inc (HIPO) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. Thank you for attending the Hippo first quarter 2025 Holdings Call. My name is Cameron, and I'll be your moderator for today. (Operator Instructions) Mark Olson, Director of Communications. You may proceed.

午安.感謝您參加 Hippo 2025 年第一季控股電話會議。我叫卡梅倫，今天我將擔任主持人。（操作員指示）通訊主管馬克‧奧爾森。您可以繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon and thank you for joining Hippo's 2025 first quarter earnings call. Earlier today, Hippo issued a shareholder letter announcing its Q1 2025 results, which is available at investors.hippo.com.

謝謝您，接線生。下午好，感謝您參加 Hippo 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。今天早些時候，Hippo 發布了一封股東信，宣布了其 2025 年第一季的業績，可在 investors.hippo.com 上查閱。

Leading today's discussion will be Hippo President and Chief Executive Officer Rick McCathron; Chief Financial Officer, Guy Zeltser; and Stewart Ellis, Chief Strategy Officer. Following management's prepared remarks, we will open up the call to questions.

主持今天討論的將是 Hippo 總裁兼執行長 Rick McCathron、財務長 Guy Zeltser 和首席策略長 Stewart Ellis。在管理階層發表完準備好的發言後，我們將開始提問。

Before we begin, we'd like to remind you that our discussion will contain predictions, expectations, forward-looking statements, and other information about our business that are based on management's current expectations as of the date of this presentation.

在我們開始之前，我們想提醒您，我們的討論將包含預測、期望、前瞻性陳述以及有關我們業務的其他信息，這些信息基於管理層截至本演示之日的當前期望。

Forward-looking statements include but are not limited to Hippo's expectations or predictions of financial and business performance and conditions and competitive and industry outlook. Forward-looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties, and other factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from historical results and or from our forecasts, including those set forth in Hippo's Form-10Q filed today.

前瞻性陳述包括但不限於 Hippo 對財務和業務表現和狀況以及競爭和行業前景的預期或預測。前瞻性陳述受風險、不確定性和其他因素的影響，這些因素可能導致我們的實際結果與歷史結果和/或我們的預測有重大差異，包括今天提交的 Hippo 的 10Q 表中所述的結果。

For more information, please refer to the risks, uncertainties, and other factors discussed in Hippo's SEC filings, in particular in the section entitled risk factors in our Form-10Q. All cautionary statements are applicable to any forward-looking statements we make whenever they appear you should carefully consider the risks and uncertainties and other factors discussed in Hippo's SEC filings.

欲了解更多信息，請參閱 Hippo 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中討論的風險、不確定性和其他因素，特別是我們的 Form-10Q 中題為風險因素的部分。所有警示性聲明均適用於我們所做的任何前瞻性陳述，無論何時出現，您都應仔細考慮 Hippo 的 SEC 文件中討論的風險和不確定性以及其他因素。

Do not place undue reliance on forward-looking statements as if it was under no obligation and expressly disclaims any responsibility for updating, offering, or otherwise revising any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise except as required by law.

請勿過度依賴前瞻性陳述，好像它沒有任何義務，並且明確否認對更新、提供或以其他方式修改任何前瞻性陳述的責任，無論是由於新資訊、未來事件還是其他原因，除非法律要求。

During this conference call, we will also refer to non-GAAP financial measures such as adjusted EBITDA. Our GAAP results and description of our non-GAAP financial measures with full reconciliation to GAAP can be found in the first quarter of 2025 shareholder letter, which has been furnished to the SEC and is available on our website. And with that, I'll turn the call over to Rick McCathron, our President and CEO.

在本次電話會議中，我們也將參考調整後的 EBITDA 等非公認會計準則財務指標。我們的 GAAP 結果以及與 GAAP 完全對帳的非 GAAP 財務指標描述可在 2025 年第一季度股東信中找到，該信已提供給美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 並可在我們的網站上查閱。說完這些，我將把電話轉給我們的總裁兼執行長 Rick McCathron。

Thanks, Mark, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us. During Q1, we delivered on two of our most important objectives as a company. We proactively supported our customers in the aftermath of the Los Angeles wildfires, as we do in all catastrophic events and further advance the key drivers of long term value in our business.

謝謝，馬克，大家下午好。感謝您加入我們。在第一季度，我們實現了公司最重要的兩個目標。就像我們應對所有災難性事件一樣，我們在洛杉磯森林大火發生後積極為客戶提供支持，並進一步推進我們業務的長期價值關鍵驅動力。

As we discussed last quarter, Hippo's financial results were impacted by the fires in Los Angeles that affected the broader homeowners insurance industry. However, when we look beyond the short-term impact of these fires, our Q1 results reveal remarkable progress in our business, and we remain on track to generate net profit by the end of the year.

正如我們上個季度所討論的那樣，Hippo 的財務表現受到了洛杉磯火災的影響，這場火災也波及了更廣泛的房屋保險業。然而，當我們拋開這些火災的短期影響時，我們的第一季業績顯示出我們的業務取得了顯著進展，我們仍有望在年底前實現淨利潤。

Our Hippo Homeowners Insurance Program saw a 35% year over year increase in gross written premium from our home builder partners. New homes are built to modern codes, making them more resilient and better equipped to withstand catastrophic events, which is why this channel has had such compelling underwriting results.

我們的 Hippo 房屋保險計劃從我們的房屋建築商合作夥伴處獲得的毛承保保費同比增長了 35%。新房屋按照現代規範建造，使其更具彈性，能夠更好地抵禦災難性事件，這就是該管道獲得如此引人注目的承保結果的原因。

These homes, which have accounted for most of the new business we have been writing in California over the past few years, were not impacted by the fires. We continue to reduce HHIP written premium from existing homes in cap prone areas versus prior year to help reduce weather-related volatility in the portfolio, and I'm happy to report that these efforts are now largely complete.

這些房屋並未受到火災的影響，過去幾年來，這些房屋佔據了我們在加州的大部分新業務。與去年相比，我們繼續減少易受上限影響地區現有房屋的 HHIP 承保保費，以幫助減少投資組合中與天氣相關的波動，我很高興地報告，這些努力現在已基本完成。

With greater confidence in our geographic footprint, great adequacy, and improved deductible structure, we are now preparing to expand new business in this program. We will share more detail about the plans for growth in HHIP at next month's Investor Day.

由於對我們的地理覆蓋範圍、充足的保障和改進的免賠額結構有了更大的信心，我們現在正準備擴大該計劃的新業務。我們將在下個月的投資者日分享更多有關 HHIP 成長計畫的細節。

Written premium outside of HHIP increased 21% year over year. We view these other lines of business which are available to us because of the quality of our Spinnaker platform as an important source of diversification going forward.

HHIP 以外的已承保保費年增 21%。我們認為，由於 Spinnaker 平台的質量，我們可以開展這些其他業務，這是未來業務多元化的重要來源。

They are additive to our underwriting profit while lowering the volatility of that profit, a true win-win. Spinnaker has proven its ability to build relationships with quality underwriters over the past 10 years, and the consistent profitability of this portion of our business is a testament to its value.

它們增加了我們的承保利潤，同時降低了利潤的波動性，並實現了真正的雙贏。在過去 10 年裡，Spinnaker 已經證明了其與優質承銷商建立關係的能力，而我們這部分業務的持續盈利證明了其價值。

We believe so strongly in the value of this platform that we decided to raise additional risk-based capital to further support its growth and signed an agreement to raise a $50 million surplus note in April pending regulatory approval. This incremental capital will support further growth in these diversifying product lines without diluting our consolidated equity base, another win-win.

我們堅信這個平台的價值，因此我們決定籌集額外的風險資本來進一步支持其增長，並簽署了一項協議，在獲得監管部門批准後，於 4 月籌集 5000 萬美元的盈餘票據。這些增量資本將支持這些多樣化產品線的進一步成長，而不會稀釋我們的合併股本基礎，這又是一個雙贏的局面。

Finally, we continue to gain operating leverage during the quarter by reducing fixed expenses through further investments in our infrastructure and automation while boosting our top line revenue. These investments will support continued operating leverage, improvements in future quarters.

最後，我們透過進一步投資基礎設施和自動化來減少固定支出，同時提高營業收入，從而在本季繼續獲得營運槓桿。這些投資將支持未來幾季的持續經營槓桿和改善。

I'm extremely proud of the progress we made this quarter and excited to share our three-year roadmap and long-term financial targets at our upcoming investor day on June 12, 2025, in New York City. The team's hard work preparing the company for sustainable growth positions us well for continued and accelerated success in 2025 and beyond.

我對我們本季的進展感到非常自豪，並很高興在 2025 年 6 月 12 日於紐約舉行的投資者日上分享我們的三年路線圖和長期財務目標。團隊的辛勤工作為公司的可持續成長做好了準備，使我們在 2025 年及以後能夠繼續取得更快的成功。

Now, I'd like to turn the call over to our Chief Financial Officer, Guy Zeltser, to walk through the highlights of our first quarter 2025 financial results as well as our expectations for the remainder of 2025.

現在，我想將電話轉給我們的財務長 Guy Zeltser，介紹我們 2025 年第一季財務業績的亮點以及我們對 2025 年剩餘時間的預期。

Thanks, Rick, and good afternoon, everyone. In the first quarter of 2025, we achieved a meaningful improvement in all the main underlying drivers of value in our business versus a year ago. We drove solid premium revenue growth, diversified our premium base, improved the attritional gross cost ratio, and continue to demonstrate our scalability through additional fixed cost leverage.

謝謝，里克，大家下午好。2025 年第一季度，與去年同期相比，我們業務的所有主要潛在價值驅動因素都取得了顯著改善。我們推動了保費收入的穩健成長，實現了保費基礎的多元化，改善了損耗總成本率，並繼續透過額外的固定成本槓桿展示我們的可擴展性。

The only drag on our Q1 results were the Los Angeles wildfires, but as Rick mentioned, none of these losses were related to our new homes channel, which has represented a substantial majority of the new business we've been writing in California over the past few years.

對我們第一季業績造成拖累的唯一因素是洛杉磯的野火，但正如里克所提到的，這些損失都與我們的新房通路無關，該通路代表了過去幾年我們在加州開展的新業務的絕大部分。

Looking ahead to the rest of 2025, we expect our key financial metrics to continue to improve both year over year and quarter over quarter, and we're now guiding to finish 2025 at an annual run rate of more than $500 million of revenue and generating net profit.

展望 2025 年剩餘時間，我們預計我們的關鍵財務指標將繼續逐年改善和逐季提升，我們現在預計到 2025 年，年收入將超過 5 億美元，並產生淨利潤。

In Q1, revenue grew 30% year over year to $110 million, up from $85 million in Q1 of last year. The growth was driven primarily by our Insurance as a Service and Hippo Home Insurance Program segments. Insurance as a Service revenue grew 91% year over year to $39 million up from $20 million in Q1 of last year.

第一季度，營收年增 30%，達到 1.1 億美元，高於去年第一季的 8,500 萬美元。成長主要得益於我們的保險即服務和 Hippo 家庭保險計劃部門。保險即服務收入年增 91%，從去年第一季的 2,000 萬美元增至 3,900 萬美元。

This was driven by a 27% year over year growth in gross earned premium, which was achieved through strength in existing programs, as well as higher risk retention at select programs where the risk profile and underwriting profitability were attracted.

這是由於總保費收入同比增長 27% 所致，這得益於現有計劃的強勁表現，以及在風險狀況和承保盈利能力受到青睞的精選計劃中更高的風險保留率。

HHIP revenue grew 12% year over year to $62 million up from $55 million in Q1 of last year. This was driven by improvements to our arrangement structure, which raised net earned premium as a percentage of gross earned premium to 85% in Q1, up from 58% a year ago. Over the course of 2025, this year over year comparison will become a smaller factor in our financial as the prior year period converge to current levels.

HHIP 營收年增 12%，從去年第一季的 5,500 萬美元增至 6,200 萬美元。這是由於我們的安排結構的改進，第一季淨賺保費佔總賺保費的百分比從一年前的 58% 上升至 85%。到 2025 年，隨著去年同期水平逐漸趨於當前水平，同比變化對我們財務的影響將變得越來越小。

The HHIP revenue growth was offset by a 20% year over year reduction in gross earned premium, driven by the final stages of our efforts to reduce exposure in capital areas for non-new homes, which was offset by growth in earned premium from our new homes channel.

HHIP 收入的成長被總保費收入年減 20% 所抵消，這歸因於我們為減少非新房在首都地區的曝光率所做的最後努力，而這一下降又被我們新房渠道的保費收入增長所抵消。

In Q1, the HHIP growth loss ratio increased 41percentage points year over year to 121%. This increase was primarily the result of the wildfires in Los Angeles, which by themselves resulted in a 56 percentage point a year over year increase in the HHIP gross ratio.

第一季度，HHIP成長損失率較去年同期增加41個百分點至121%。這一增長主要是由於洛杉磯的森林大火，森林大火本身導致 HHIP 總額比率同比增長 56 個百分點。

The impact of the fires was offset by an improvement in our HHIP non-PCS source ratio, which declined 6 percentage points year over year to 53%, driven by the portfolio transformation we underwent in 2024, which included rate increases, structural changes to our coverages, and other underwriting actions.

火災的影響被我們的 HHIP 非 PCS 來源比率的改善所抵消，該比率同比下降 6 個百分點至 53%，這得益於我們在 2024 年經歷的投資組合轉型，其中包括費率上漲、承保範圍的結構性變化以及其他承保行動。

The HHIP net loss ratio increased 33 percentage points year over year to 133%. Again, this increase was primarily the result of the wildfires in Los Angeles, which by themselves resulted in a 57 percentage points year over year increase in the HHIP net loss ratio.

HHIP淨虧損率較去年同期增加33個百分點至133%。同樣，這一增長主要是由於洛杉磯的野火，野火本身導致 HHIP 淨損失率同比增加了 57 個百分點。

In Q1, we continue to deliver top line growth while reducing our operating expenses as a percentage of revenue and on an absolute dollar. Relative to Q1 of last year, our sales and marketing, technology and development, and general and administrative expenses collectively declined by $7 million a year over year decrease of 18%.

在第一季度，我們繼續實現營收成長，同時降低營運費用佔收入的百分比和絕對金額。與去年第一季相比，我們的銷售和行銷、技術和開發以及一般和行政費用合計下降了 700 萬美元，年減了 18%。

When combined with the increases in our revenue over the same period, these costs fell from 48% of revenue in Q1 of last year to 30% of revenue this quarter. Q1 net loss came in at $48 million a $12 million increase versus Q1 of last year, with $45 million of expense related to the L.A. wildfires.

與我們同期收入的成長相結合，這些成本從去年第一季營收的 48% 下降到本季營收的 30%。第一季淨虧損為 4,800 萬美元，比去年第一季增加 1,200 萬美元，其中 4,500 萬美元的支出與洛杉磯山火有關。

Without the impact of the L.A. wildfires, our net loss would have improved by $33 million year over year. This underlying improvement was supported by top line growth due to higher premium retention at Insurance as a Service and HHIP, attritional loss ratio improvement due to pricing and underwriting actions taken in 2024, lower fixed expenses due to continued progress driving operational efficiencies, and restructuring expenses we incurred in Q1 of last year that did not reoccur this year.

若沒有洛杉磯山火的影響，我們的淨虧損將比去年同期減少 3,300 萬美元。這項根本性改善得益於以下因素：保險即服務和 HHIP 保費留存率提高導致的營收成長；2024 年採取的定價和承保行動導致的損耗率改善；持續提高營運效率導致的固定費用降低；以及去年第一季發生但今年沒有再次發生的重組費用。

Our Q1 adjusted EBITDA loss came in at $41 million a $21 million dollars increase versus Q1 of last year, with $45 million of expenses related to the LA wildfires. Without the impact of the LA wildfires, our adjusted EBITDA would have improved by $24 million year over year.

我們第一季調整後的 EBITDA 虧損為 4,100 萬美元，比去年第一季增加了 2,100 萬美元，其中 4,500 萬美元的費用與洛杉磯山火有關。若沒有洛杉磯山火的影響，我們的調整後 EBITDA 將比去年同期增加 2,400 萬美元。

The same drivers of the net loss improvement also benefited adjusted EBITDA except for the effect related to last year's restructuring expenses, which does not impact adjusted EBITDA.

除了與去年重組費用相關的影響（不會影響調整後的 EBITDA）外，淨虧損改善的相同驅動因素也使調整後的 EBITDA 受益。

Q1 ending cash and investments decreased quarter over quarter by $42 million to $528 million. This decrease was driven primarily by payment of losses related to the LA fires and seasonal working capital changes associated with payments to reinsurers.

第一季末現金和投資季減 4,200 萬美元至 5.28 億美元。造成這一下降的主要原因是支付與洛杉磯火災相關的損失以及與支付給再保險公司相關的季節性營運資金變化。

On April 30, 2025, Spinnaker Insurance Company, a wholly owned subsidiary of Hippo, entered into an agreement to issue a surplus note in the aggregate principal amount of $50 million to several initial purchasers. The closing of the transaction is subject to the approval of the Illinois Department of Insurance. As of today, regulatory approval has not been obtained and no proceeds have been received under the agreement.

2025 年 4 月 30 日，Hippo 的全資子公司 Spinnaker Insurance Company 簽署協議，向幾位初始購買者發行總本金金額為 5,000 萬美元的剩餘票據。此交易的完成需獲得伊利諾州保險部門的批准。截至今日，該協議尚未獲得監管部門的批准，也尚未收到任何收益。

In Q1, we made significant progress in the key drivers of long-term value in our business. We can therefore reiterate our previous guidance that we will generate net profit by the fourth quarter of 2025. The key assumptions our guidance are, revenue growth driven by higher premium volume, coupled with higher premium retention in our risk businesses.

第一季度，我們在業務長期價值的關鍵驅動因素方面取得了重大進展。因此，我們可以重申先前的預期，即到 2025 年第四季我們將實現淨利潤。我們的指導關鍵假設是，收入成長由更高的保費量推動，加上風險業務的保費保留率更高。

HHIP non-PCS source ratio improving throughout the year as the underwriting and pricing actions, which have already been implemented, continue to work their way into our financials. HHIP PCS cat loss ratio to follow the seasonal pattern where it peaks in Q2 and trends lower throughout the remainder of the year.

隨著已經實施的核保和定價行動繼續對我們的財務產生影響，HHIP 非 PCS 來源比率全年都在改善。HHIP PCS 巨災損失率遵循季節性模式，在第二季度達到峰值，然後在全年剩餘時間內呈下降趨勢。

Fixed expenses to be consistent with Q1 dollar levels, even as our top line continues to grow, enabled by the scalability of our infrastructure and additional investments in automation.

固定支出與第一季的美元水準保持一致，儘管我們的營業額持續成長，但這得益於我們基礎設施的可擴展性和對自動化的額外投資。

Additional details on our guidance can be found in our Q1, '25 shareholder letter, but at a high level we expect revenue of between $465 million to $475 million for a full year 2025. Adjusted EBITDA loss of between $35 million and $39 million for a full year 2025.

有關我們指引的更多詳細信息，請參閱我們 2025 年第一季的股東信，但我們預計 2025 年全年收入將在 4.65 億美元至 4.75 億美元之間。2025 年全年調整後 EBITDA 虧損在 3,500 萬美元至 3,900 萬美元之間。

Net loss of between $65 million and $69 million for full year 2025. Annual run rate by Q4, '25 of more than $500 million of revenue and generating net profits. And with that, operator I would now like to open the floor to questions.

2025年全年淨虧損在6,500萬美元至6,900萬美元之間。到 2025 年第四季度，年營業收入將超過 5 億美元，並產生淨利。接線員，現在我想開始回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Tommy McJoynt, KBW.

（操作員指示）Tommy McJoynt，KBW。

Hi, this is Jane on for Tommy. My first question is on the surplus note. With regards to the note there being raised, what will be the cost of that note? Any detail you can provide?

大家好，我是 Jane，為您播報 Tommy 的情況。我的第一個問題是關於盈餘說明的。關於所發行的票據，該票據的成本是多少？您能提供任何詳細資訊嗎？

Thank you for the question. We're actually quite excited about raising the note for a couple of different reasons. One, I think this demonstrates our confidence in the Spinnaker platform and the ability for us to continue to grow the Spinnaker platform both from a size perspective and a risk participation perspective. The rate that we are getting on this is approximately 9.5%. so, we think that the marginal rate on that and the use of that capital and the cost of capital is something that's quite favourable.

謝謝你的提問。事實上，我們因為幾個不同的原因而對提出這項要求感到非常興奮。首先，我認為這顯示了我們對 Spinnaker 平台的信心，以及我們從規模和風險參與角度繼續發展 Spinnaker 平台的能力。我們獲得的利率約為 9.5%。因此，我們認為該邊際利率以及資本的使用和資本成本是相當有利的。

Got it. Makes sense. Just a follow up on that. You mentioned that it will be-- the capital will be used to fund the growth in Spinnaker. I'm just wondering, the HHIP program or the-- in the [fronting business] or both. Like can you talk about the decision, tap into the surplus [note] versus contributing cash from the holding company?

知道了。有道理。只是對此進行跟進。您提到這筆資金將用於資助 Spinnaker 的發展。我只是想知道，HHIP 計劃或[前台業務]或兩者兼而有之。例如，您能談談這個決定嗎，是利用盈餘[註]還是從控股公司注入現金？

Yeah, no, this is Rick. I'm happy to answer that too and then if Guy has anything he wants to add, he certainly will. The primary driver on the desire to raise the note is to fund the Spinnaker side of our business and the Spinnaker platform, both as a combination of necessary surplus to maintain our AMS rating, but also for risk participation in the programs we choose to participate in. One valuable aspect of the Spinnaker platform is we can participate in risk and at what amount dependent on our view of the quality of the underlying program.

是的，不，這是瑞克。我也很樂意回答這個問題，如果 Guy 有什麼想補充的，他當然會補充。希望籌集票據的主要驅動力是為我們的 Spinnaker 業務和 Spinnaker 平台提供資金，這既是維持我們的 AMS 評級所需的盈餘，也是我們選擇參與的計劃的風險參與。Spinnaker 平台的一個有價值的方面是，我們可以參與風險，而參與的金額取決於我們對底層程式品質的看法。

So we believe we have a portfolio of positively selected underwriting business in which we want to continue to take risk and likely take more risk as time goes on based on the historical performance of those particular programs.

因此，我們相信，我們擁有一系列積極選擇的核保業務，我們希望繼續承擔風險，並且隨著時間的推移，根據這些特定項目的歷史表現，我們可能會承擔更多的風險。

You look at Spinnaker excluding Hippo, the performance, the lost performance of those programs historically has been below 40%. Even when you include the California wildfires for the non-Hippo portion, it's sub 60%.

你看 Spinnaker（不包括 Hippo）的效能，這些程式的效能損失歷史上一直低於 40%。即使將加州山火算入非河馬部分，也只有不到 60%。

So we're very excited to use those proceeds predominantly to grow the Spinnaker portfolio. That said, we are going to grow the HHIP portfolio now that we have substantially de-risked the business or reduced the risk of volatility in the HHIP business.

因此，我們非常高興主要利用這些收益來擴大 Spinnaker 投資組合。也就是說，既然我們已經大幅降低了業務風險或減少了 HHIP 業務的波動風險，我們就會擴大 HHIP 投資組合。

We have rate adequacy. We've diversified some of the concentration of exposures. Hippo policies are written on Spinnaker paper, so for all intents and purposes, you could consider pooling that amount to help both Spinnaker third-party business and Hippo. But we're excited that this will help fund growth without the need to raise equity capital.

我們的費率充足。我們已經實現了部分風險敞口的集中分散。Hippo 政策是寫在 Spinnaker 紙上的，因此無論出於何種目的，您都可以考慮匯集這筆金額來幫助 Spinnaker 第三方業務和 Hippo。但我們很高興，這將有助於資助成長，而無需籌集股本。

Got it thank you so much.

明白了，非常感謝。

Andrew Andersen, Jefferies.

安德魯·安德森（Andrew Andersen），傑富瑞集團（Jefferies）。

Hey, good afternoon, can you maybe just talk about how you're thinking about tariffs, whether it be on, material inflation or just kind of new home sales?

嘿，下午好，您能否談談您對關稅的看法，無論是物質通膨還是新房銷售？

Yeah, hey Andrew, it's Rick. I'll go ahead and take this one. When we think about homeowners’ insurance specifically, unlike some other types of product lines, essentially the cost built into replacing homes in the event of total loss are e built in to the coverage A and premium charged for those.

是的，嘿，安德魯，我是瑞克。我會繼續並接受這個。當我們具體考慮房屋保險時，與其他類型的產品線不同，在發生全損的情況下更換房屋的成本基本上已經包含在保險範圍 A 和為此收取的保費中。

So, our ability to raise coverage and the commensurate premium is automatic at each renewal, each policy's renewal. Therefore, you're never really more than a year behind on any particular policy. It's sort of inherent within coverage A and pricing of our policy. Those changes do not require regulatory approval, and our technology platform allows us to really adjust those almost real time as each renewal is approaching.

因此，我們每次續保、每份保單續保時，都會自動提高保險範圍和相應的保費。因此，您在任何特定政策上都不會落後超過一年。它是我們保單 A 範圍和定價中固有的一部分。這些變化不需要監管部門的批准，而且我們的技術平台使我們能夠在每次續約臨近時幾乎即時地調整這些變化。

The other aspect by that flexibility that we have is making sure that we are providing adequate and ample coverage for the protection of policyholders, our ability to go ahead and increase the coverage A when there's a total loss event make sure that even when tariffs have impacted both labour and materials on those particular costs, the customer has the right level of insurance. So, it's automatic for the most part and it ensures protection for our customers.

我們靈活性的另一個面向是確保為保單持有人提供足夠和充足的保障，當發生全損事件時，我們有能力繼續增加保障範圍，確保即使關稅對勞動力和材料等特定成本產生影響，客戶也能獲得適當的保險水準。因此，它在很大程度上是自動的，並確保我們的客戶得到保護。

Thank you. And then just on the guidance piece, I think I heard, net income profitable for 4Q'25 and you had given EBITDA guidance for full year '25, but how are we thinking about kind of getting to EBITDA profitability? Is that something, in for full year '26, because it seems to be improving throughout the rest of 2025 is what I'm getting at.

謝謝。然後就指導部分而言，我想我聽說 2025 年第四季度的淨收入實現盈利，並且您給出了 2025 年全年的 EBITDA 指導，但我們如何考慮實現 EBITDA 盈利呢？這是 26 年全年的情況嗎？因為我想說的是，2025 年剩餘時間的情況似乎會有所改善。

Hi Andrew, this is Guy. Happy to take this question. So first of all, as you mentioned, first of all, I'll start by saying, so if you look at the shareholders that are guidance we provided, you can see that we do expect all the key drivers to improve throughout the year, and you heard correctly.

你好，安德魯，我是蓋伊。很高興回答這個問題。首先，正如您所提到的，首先，我要說的是，如果您看一下我們向股東提供的指導，您會發現我們確實預計所有關鍵驅動因素都會在全年得到改善，您聽得沒錯。

We are guiding specifically for Q4'25 to be net profitable as well as just that profitable and I'll say beyond the guidance for 2025 we're going to have our Investor Day in New York next month in June and we're going to provide guidance or more longer term guidance around that.

我們特別為 2025 年第四季制定了淨獲利指引，並且僅僅獲利。我想說，除了 2025 年的指引之外，我們還將在下個月 6 月在紐約舉辦投資者日，我們將提供指引或更長期的指引。

Yeah, Andrew, I'll go ahead and I'll go ahead and add one little one thing to it. So, if you look at the guidance range we did for EBITDA, it was minus $39million to minus $35 million. The LA wildfires contributed minus $45 million to that number, and that's baked into the guidance. So, minus the LA wildfires, we would have had full year adjusted EBITDA profitability for 2025.

是的，安德魯，我會繼續，我會繼續添加一點小東西。因此，如果你看一下我們為 EBITDA 制定的指導範圍，它是負 3900 萬美元到負 3500 萬美元。洛杉磯山火造成的損失為負 4500 萬美元，已計入指導金額。因此，除去洛杉磯山火的影響，2025 年全年調整後的 EBITDA 將實現盈利。

Thank you. How much of the, if I'm reading it correctly, the EBITDA loss includes the assessment from the FAIR Plan. I guess one, is that correct? And two, are you able to tell us how much the assessment was?

謝謝。如果我沒理解錯的話，EBITDA 損失中有多少包括公平計劃的評估。我猜是一個，對嗎？第二，您能告訴我們評估金額是多少嗎？

So, Andrew, this is the guy I'll take this one. So, the $45 million number includes the FAIR Plan assessment. We, what we have said in the past, and I just want to reiterate, of the $45 million, $12 million belongs to the Spinnaker non-Hippo programs, and then the rest belongs to theto the Hippo. And again, it does include the FAIR Plan assessment.

所以，安德魯，這就是我要選擇的人。因此，4500 萬美元的數字包括公平計劃評估。我們，正如我們過去所說的，我只想重申一下，在這 4500 萬美元中，1200 萬美元屬於 Spinnaker 非 Hippo 項目，其餘的則屬於 Hippo。再次強調，它確實包括公平計劃評估。

What I will say is that we do expect some benefit in the future to that number because we have the ability to charge back some of the FAIR Plan cost back to the policyholders. For accounting reasons, we cannot include this amount right now, but it will give us some benefit to that amount in the future.

我想說的是，我們確實預計未來這個數字會有一些好處，因為我們有能力將部分公平計畫成本回饋給保單持有人。由於會計原因，我們現在無法將這筆金額計入，但它將來會為我們帶來一些好處。

Yeah, Just to summarize that, Andrew, we have baked into our numbers the entire assessment, our belief of the entire assessment, but we have not baked into the numbers any recoupment we get from policyholders. So we're being, we're fully loading it and not taking a discount of any potential recoupment.

是的，總結一下，安德魯，我們已經將整個評估、我們對整個評估的信念融入到我們的數字中，但我們沒有將我們從保單持有人那裡獲得的任何補償融入到數字中。因此，我們正在全力投入，並且不會對任何潛在的補償打折扣。

Okay, that that's help. Are you able to share how much the assessment was?

好的，這很有幫助。能分享一下評估金額是多少嗎？

I don't think we're sharing that number just at this juncture. There's a couple of different components. Remember, a portion of it is obviously the Hippo Home Insurance Program. There's also a portion of it that are Spinnaker-fronted business. So that data is still being gathered. But we think we've put a conservative number in there that we think is likely.

我認為我們現在不會分享這個數字。有幾個不同的組件。請記住，其中一部分顯然是 Hippo 家庭保險計劃。其中還有一部分是 Spinnaker 主導的業務。因此數據仍在收集中。但我們認為，我們在其中輸入了一個我們認為有可能的保守數字。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Andrew.

謝謝，安德魯。

(Operator Instructions) There are no additional questions waiting at this time. I would now like to pass the conference back over to Rick McCathron for any closing remarks.

（操作員指示）目前沒有其他問題。現在我想將會議交還給 Rick McCathron 並請他做最後發言。

Well, I just want to thank each of you for joining us this evening, and we are very excited about our Investor Day. Again, that's on June 12, in New York City. We are hopeful that you can attend, and we'll have a lot more to talk about both at that event and in subsequent quarters. So, thank you very much. Have a great evening.

好吧，我只想感謝你們每個人今晚加入我們，我們對我們的投資者日感到非常興奮。再次強調，那是 6 月 12 日，地點是紐約市。我們希望您能參加，並且我們將在此次活動以及隨後的幾個季度中討論更多內容。所以，非常感謝。祝您有個愉快的夜晚。

That concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation and enjoy the rest of your day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與並祝您今天過得愉快。