Heritage Financial Corp (HFWA) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and a warm welcome to the Heritage Financial Q4 and year-end earnings call. My name is Emily, and I'll be coordinating your call today. (Operator Instructions) I will now turn the call over to Jeff Deuel, CEO, to begin. Please go ahead.

大家好，熱烈歡迎參加 Heritage Financial 第四季和年終收益電話會議。我叫艾米麗，今天我將負責協調您的通話。（操作員指示）現在我將把電話轉給執行長 Jeff Deuel 開始。請繼續。

Thank you, Emily. Welcome, and good morning to everyone who called in and those who may listen later. This is Jeff Deuel, CEO of Heritage Financial. Attending with me are Bryan McDonald, CEO of Heritage Bank and Tony Chalfant, Chief Credit Officer. Don Hinson, CFO, is unable to join us today because he's under the weather. So we have asked Jennifer Nino, our Chief Accounting Officer, to participate in his place.

謝謝你，艾米麗。歡迎各位來電以及稍後收聽的聽眾，大家早安。我是傑夫‧杜埃爾 (Jeff Deuel)，Heritage Financial 執行長。和我一起出席的還有 Heritage Bank 執行長 Bryan McDonald 和首席信貸官 Tony Chalfant。財務長唐辛森 (Don Hinson) 由於身體不適，今天無法參加我們的活動。因此，我們已邀請首席會計官詹妮弗·尼諾 (Jennifer Nino) 來代替他參與。

As many of you know, we announced CEO transition -- excuse me, succession in July of 2024. That plan has been underway for some time now with the goal of providing a smooth transition for everyone, including employees, customers, shareholders, investors, and the communities we serve.

你們很多人都知道，我們宣布了執行長的過渡——對不起，繼任將於 2024 年 7 月進行。該計劃已經進行了一段時間，目標是為每個人提供平穩過渡，包括員工、客戶、股東、投資者和我們服務的社區。

I will continue as CEO of the holding company until May 5, 2025 when I will retire and become a non-executive advisor to the bank. At that time, it is expected that Bryan McDonald will add CEO of the holding company to his current title as CEO of the bank. To that end, I would like to turn the call over to Bryan.

我將繼續擔任控股公司的執行長直到 2025 年 5 月 5 日退休並成為該銀行的非執行顧問。屆時，預計 Bryan McDonald 將在其現任銀行執行長頭銜上再加任控股公司執行長。為此，我想將電話轉給布萊恩。

Thank you, Jeff. Our fourth-quarter earnings release went out this morning premarket, and hopefully, you have had the opportunity to review it prior to the call. We have also posted an updated fourth-quarter investor presentation on the Investor Relations portion of our corporate website, which includes more detail on our deposits, loan portfolio, liquidity, and credit quality. We will reference this presentation during the call. Please refer to the forward-looking statements in the press release.

謝謝你，傑夫。我們的第四季度收益報告於今天早上盤前發布，希望您有機會在電話會議之前查看它。我們也在公司網站的投資者關係部分發布了更新的第四季度投資者介紹，其中包括有關我們的存款、貸款組合、流動性和信貸品質的更多詳細資訊。我們將在通話期間參考該簡報。請參閱新聞稿中的前瞻性陳述。

We are very pleased with our operating results for the fourth quarter, including strong loan growth, margin expansion, and the continued benefits from our expense management efforts. We are optimistic the combination of core balance sheet growth and prudent risk management will continue to benefit our core profitability as we progress through 2025.

我們對第四季度的經營業績非常滿意，包括強勁的貸款成長、利潤率擴大以及費用管理努力帶來的持續收益。我們樂觀地認為，核心資產負債表成長與審慎風險管理的結合將在 2025 年繼續有利於我們的核心獲利能力。

We will now move to Jennifer who will take a few minutes to cover our financial results.

現在我們請詹妮弗來介紹一下我們的財務結果。

Thank you, Bryan. I will be reviewing some of the main drivers of our performance for Q4 as I walk through our financial results. Unless otherwise noted, all of the prior period comparisons will be with the third quarter of 2024.

謝謝你，布萊恩。在介紹我們的財務表現時，我將回顧第四季度業績的一些主要驅動因素。除非另有說明，所有前期比較均與 2024 年第三季進行。

Starting with the balance sheet. Loan growth was strong again Q4 with loan balances increasing $123 million for the quarter. Yields on the loan portfolio were 5.53%, which was 7 basis points lower than Q3. This was due primarily to the 100-basis-point reduction in the Fed funds rate from September through December. Bryan McDonald will have an update on loan production and yields in a few minutes.

從資產負債表開始。第四季貸款成長再次強勁，本季貸款餘額增加了 1.23 億美元。貸款組合收益率為 5.53%，比第三季低 7 個基點。這主要是由於9月至12月聯邦基金利率下調了100個基點。布萊恩麥克唐納（Bryan McDonald）將在幾分鐘內介紹貸款生產和收益的最新情況。

After a strong growth in Q3, deposits were relatively flat in Q4. Total deposits decreased $24 million in the quarter due to a $25 million reduction in brokered CDs. Much like the past several quarters, we continue to experience our strongest growth in our core CD balances as customers continue to seek the higher yielding products.

在第三季強勁成長之後，第四季存款相對持平。由於經紀存單減少 2,500 萬美元，本季總存款減少 2,400 萬美元。與過去幾季一樣，由於客戶不斷尋求收益更高的產品，我們的核心 CD 餘額繼續呈現最強勁的成長勢頭。

Even with the growth in higher costing CDs, the cost of interest-bearing deposits decreased to 1.98% in Q4 from 2.02% in the prior quarter. We expect to continue to see further quarterly decreases in the cost of deposits as shown by the fact that our spot rate for the cost of interest-bearing deposits as of December 31 was 1.94%.

即使高成本存單有所成長，但第四季計息存款的成本仍從上一季的 2.02% 下降至 1.98%。我們預計存款成本將繼續逐季下降，這點從截至 12 月 31 日的計息存款成本即期利率為 1.94% 可以看出。

Investment balances decreased $104.5 million, partially due to a lost trade executed during the quarter. A pretax loss of $3.9 million was recognized on the sale of $36 million of securities. These sales were part of our strategic repositioning of our balance sheet. And proceeds from the sales were used for other balance sheet initiatives, such as the funding of higher yielding loans. It is estimated that the annualized pretax income improvement from this lost trade will be approximately $1.4 million, resulting in an earn-back period of about three years.

投資餘額減少了 1.045 億美元，部分原因是本季執行的交易損失。出售價值 3,600 萬美元的證券確認了 390 萬美元的稅前損失。這些銷售是我們資產負債表策略性重新定位的一部分。銷售所得用於其他資產負債表計劃，例如為高收益貸款提供資金。據估計，這筆交易損失將帶來約 140 萬美元的年稅前收入成長，從而帶來約三年的獲利期。

In addition to the lost trade on investments during the fourth quarter, we executed on a partial restructuring of our BOLI portfolio. We surrendered $34 million of policies, which resulted in approximately $2.4 million in additional tax expense. We redeployed $90 million of the proceeds into new policies, yielding approximately 300 basis points higher than the policies we surrendered.

除了第四季度投資交易損失外，我們還對 BOLI 投資組合進行了部分重組。我們放棄了價值 3,400 萬美元的保單，這導致了約 240 萬美元的額外稅費。我們將其中 9,000 萬美元的收益重新投入到新保單中，收益率比我們放棄的保單高出約 300 個基點。

We also initiated tax-free exchanges on approximately $10 million of BOLI policies. In addition to the related tax expense, we incurred other transaction costs of approximately $500,000 in Q4. These combined actions will generate cash for other balance sheet needs and improve the yield on the remaining BOLI portfolio.

我們也對約 1000 萬美元的 BOLI 保單進行了免稅交換。除了相關稅費外，我們在第四季還發生了約 50 萬美元的其他交易成本。這些綜合行動將為其他資產負債表需求產生現金，並提高剩餘 BOLI 投資組合的收益率。

Moving on to the income statement. Net interest income increased $805,000. This improvement from the prior quarter was due to an increase in net interest margin. The net interest margin increased to 3.39% for Q4 from 3.33% in the prior quarter due primarily to decreases in the cost of both deposits and borrowings. Please see page 27 of our investor presentation for more information on net interest income and net interest margin.

繼續討論損益表。淨利息收入增加了805,000美元。與上一季相比，這一改善是由於淨利差的增加。淨利差從上一季的 3.33% 上升至第四季的 3.39%，主要原因是存款和借款成本雙雙下降。有關淨利息收入和淨利差的更多信息，請參閱我們的投資者介紹第27頁。

We recognize the provision for credit losses in the amount of $1.2 million during the quarter. The provision expense was due primarily to loan growth as net charge-offs were very minor for the quarter. Tony will have additional information on credit quality metrics in a few moments.

我們本季確認了 120 萬美元的信用損失準備金。撥備費用主要由於貸款成長，因為本季的淨核銷金額非常小。托尼稍後將會提供有關信用品質指標的更多資訊。

Non-interest expense increased $250,000 in the prior quarter due primarily to the timing of marketing and professional services expenses, although we are still well below Q4 2023 levels. We continue to tightly manage FTE levels and other expenses in order to maintain a lower than historical overhead ratio, which was 2.20% in Q4.

上一季非利息支出增加了 25 萬美元，主要原因是行銷和專業服務費用的時間安排，儘管我們仍遠低於 2023 年第四季的水平。我們繼續嚴格管理全職當量水準和其他費用，以保持低於歷史水準的間接費用率（第四季為 2.20%）。

And finally, moving on to capital. All of our regulatory capital ratios remain comfortably above well-capitalized thresholds. And our TCE ratio was 9.0%, down slightly from 9.1% in the prior quarter. Our strong capital ratios have allowed us to be active in lost trades on investments and in stock buybacks.

最後，談談資本。我們所有的監理資本比率均遠高於資本充足的門檻。我們的TCE比率為9.0％，略低於上一季的9.1％。我們強大的資本比率使我們能夠積極應對投資虧損交易和股票回購。

During Q4, we repurchased 165,000 shares as part of our stock repurchase program at a total cost of $4.3 million. We have 990,000 shares available for repurchase under the current repurchase plan as of the end of Q4.

第四季度，我們作為股票回購計劃的一部分回購了 165,000 股，總成本為 430 萬美元。截至第四季末，根據現行回購計劃，我們有 99 萬股可供回購。

I will now pass the call to Tony who will have an update on our credit quality.

我現在將電話轉給托尼，他將向我們報告我們的信用品質。

Thank you, Jennifer. I'm pleased to report that credit quality remains strong and stable. Non-accrual loans totaled just over $4 million at year end, and we do not hold any OREO. This represents 0.08% of total loans and compares to 0.09% at the end of the third quarter and 0.10% at the end of 2023.

謝謝你，詹妮弗。我很高興地報告，信貸品質依然強勁而穩定。截至年底，非應計貸款總額略高於 400 萬美元，而且我們沒有持有任何 OREO。這佔總貸款的 0.08%，而第三季末為 0.09%，2023 年底為 0.10%。

I would also note that adjusting for government guarantees non-accrual loans would be $3.1 million. Overall, we saw a decline of $222,000 during the quarter. Page 18 of the investor presentation reflects the stability on our non-accrual loans over the past three years.

我還要指出的是，調整政府擔保的非應計貸款將達到 310 萬美元。總體而言，本季下降了 222,000 美元。投資者報告的第 18 頁反映了我們過去三年非應計貸款的穩定性。

Non-performing loans were 0.11% of total loans at year end versus 0.21% at the end of the third quarter. The improvement came from a combination of one CRE loan that was paid in full and paydowns on several loans that are part of one classified C&I relationship.

截至年底，不良貸款佔貸款總額的 0.11%，而第三季末為 0.21%。改善源於一筆已全額償還的 CRE 貸款和屬於一個機密 C&I 關係的幾筆貸款的償還。

Criticized loans, those rated special mention and substandard totaled just over $179 million at year end, rising by 4.7% during the quarter.

受到批評的貸款、被評為關注和不合格的貸款在年底總額略高於 1.79 億美元，本季度增長了 4.7%。

Most of the increase was from the downgrade of three C&I relationships from past to the special mention category. Loans in the more severe substandard category were down by 5% or $3.7 million during the quarter. Substandard loans represented 1.4% of total loans at year end and compares favorably to the 1.6% we experienced at year end 2022 and 2023.

大部分成長是由於三個 C&I 關係從過去的降級為特別提及類別。本季度，嚴重不合格類別的貸款減少了 5%，即 370 萬美元。次級貸款佔年底貸款總額的 1.4%，與 2022 年和 2023 年底的 1.6% 相比有所改善。

The credit quality of our office loan portfolio has remained stable over the last 12 months. This loan segment represents $566 million or 12% of total loans and is split evenly between owner and non-owner-occupied properties. The average loan size is $1.1 million. They are diversified by geographic location, and we have little exposure to the core downtown markets.

過去 12 個月，我們辦公室貸款組合的信用品質保持穩定。這部分貸款佔貸款總額 5.66 億美元或 12%，平均分配給自住房產和非自住房產。平均貸款額為110萬美元。它們的地理位置多種多樣，我們很少接觸核心市中心市場。

Criticized office loans are limited to just under $15 million, representing 2.6% of total office loans. Page 17 of the investor presentation provides more detailed information about our office loan portfolio.

受到批評的辦公室貸款僅限於1500萬美元以下，佔辦公室貸款總額的2.6％。投資者簡報的第 17 頁提供了有關我們的辦公室貸款組合的更多詳細資訊。

During the quarter, we experienced total charge-offs of $96,000 that were primarily in our consumer portfolio. The losses were offset by $69,000 in recoveries, leading to net charge-offs of just $27,000 for the quarter. For the full year, we experienced net charge-offs of just over $2.5 million or 0.06% of total loans. This compares to a net recovery of $277,000 for 2023.

在本季度，我們共計沖銷了 96,000 美元，主要涉及我們的消費者投資組合。這些損失被 69,000 美元的回收金額所抵消，導致本季的淨沖銷金額僅為 27,000 美元。全年我們的淨沖銷金額略高於 250 萬美元，佔貸款總額的 0.06%。相比之下，2023 年的淨回收額為 277,000 美元。

While 2024 was a strong year for credit quality, we did see a continued slow movement back to a more normalized credit environment. While we will not be immune to isolated credit issues, we are confident that our consistent and disciplined approach to credit underwriting and portfolio management will continue to generate strong credit quality performance.

雖然 2024 年是信貸品質強勁的一年，但我們確實看到信貸環境持續緩慢恢復正常化。雖然我們無法免受個別信貸問題的影響，但我們相信，我們在信貸核保和投資組合管理方面採取的一貫和嚴謹的方法將繼續產生強勁的信貸品質表現。

I'll now turn the call over to Bryan for an update on loan production.

現在我將把電話轉給布萊恩，詢問貸款生產的最新情況。

Thanks, Tony. I'm going to provide detail on our fourth-quarter loan production results, starting with our commercial lending group. For the quarter, our commercial teams closed $316 million in new loan commitments, up 25% from the $253 million last quarter and up 69% from the $187 million closed in the fourth quarter of 2023. Please refer to page 13 in the investor presentation for additional detail on new originated loans over the past five quarters.

謝謝，托尼。我將詳細介紹我們第四季的貸款生產結果，從商業貸款部門開始。本季度，我們的商業團隊完成了 3.16 億美元的新貸款承諾，較上一季的 2.53 億美元增長 25%，較 2023 年第四季的 1.87 億美元增長 69%。有關過去五個季度新發放貸款的更多詳細信息，請參閱投資者介紹第 13 頁。

The commercial loan pipeline ended the fourth quarter at $452 million, down from $491 million last quarter and up from $329 million at the end of the fourth quarter of 2023. Loan growth for the fourth quarter was $123 million or just over 10% annualizing the quarterly results and was 10.8% for the full year.

第四季末商業貸款餘額為 4.52 億美元，低於上一季的 4.91 億美元，但高於 2023 年第四季末的 3.29 億美元。第四季貸款成長率為 1.23 億美元，按季度業績計算，年化成長率略高於 10%，全年貸款成長率為 10.8%。

The growth in the quarter was driven by an increase in new production across the footprint, both from existing and new customers and a continuation of moderate prepay and payoff levels. The growth during the year was due to improving loan demand, higher banker activity levels, and the new teams we added over the last few years. Excluding the results of the new teams, 2024 growth would have been 8.7% versus the 10.8% I just mentioned. Please see slides 14 and 16 of the investor presentation for further detail on the change in loans during the quarter.

本季的成長主要得益於整個業務範圍內新產量的增加（包括現有客戶和新客戶）以及持續適度的預付款和還款水準。今年的成長歸因於貸款需求的增加、銀行家活動水平的提高以及我們在過去幾年中增加的新團隊。如果不包括新球隊的成績，2024 年的成長率將是 8.7%，而不是我剛才提到的 10.8%。有關本季度貸款變化的更多詳細信息，請參閱投資者演示文稿的第 14 和 16 頁。

Focal date deposits declined $24 million during the quarter but were essentially flat after adjusting for the $25 million reduction in brokered CDs during the quarter. Average deposit balances during the fourth quarter were $30 million higher than the ending focal date balance. And we did see deposit balance variability [swings] both ways during the period. For the full year, deposits were up $85 million, primarily due to the contribution of the new teams.

本季焦點日期存款減少了 2,400 萬美元，但在調整本季經紀存單減少 2,500 萬美元後基本持平。第四季的平均存款餘額比期末餘額高出 3,000 萬美元。我們確實看到在此期間存款餘額出現了雙向波動。全年存款增加了 8,500 萬美元，主要得益於新團隊的貢獻。

New business acquisition continued at the elevated levels we've been reporting all year. The deposit pipeline ended the quarter at $141 million compared to $165 million last quarter. And the average balances on new deposit accounts opened during the quarter are estimated at $121 million compared to $72 million in the third quarter.

新業務收購繼續保持我們全年報告的高水準。本季末存款總額為 1.41 億美元，而上季為 1.65 億美元。本季新開設的存款帳戶的平均餘額估計為 1.21 億美元，而第三季為 7,200 萬美元。

Moving on to interest rates. Our average fourth-quarter interest rate for new commercial loans was 6.63%, which is up 10 basis points from the 6.53% average for last quarter. Fixed rates on new business continued to move up during the fourth quarter, following the direction of the underlying federal home loan bank indexes, which more than offset the declines in variable rates on new loans tied to prime and SOFR. In addition, the fourth-quarter rate for all new loans was 6.66%, up 7 basis points from 6.59% last quarter.

繼續討論利率。我們第四季的新商業貸款平均利率為 6.63%，比上一季的 6.53% 平均利率上升了 10 個基點。第四季度，新業務固定利率繼續上漲，跟隨基礎聯邦住房貸款銀行指數的走勢，其漲幅超過了與主要利率和 SOFR 掛鉤的新貸款浮動利率的下降幅度。此外，第四季所有新貸款利率為 6.66%，較上一季的 6.59% 上升 7 個基點。

As I mentioned earlier, we are pleased with our solid performance in the fourth quarter. It was another very strong quarter of loan growth and the second consecutive quarter of net interest margin improvement in increasing net interest income.

正如我之前提到的，我們對第四季的穩健表現感到滿意。這是貸款成長又一個非常強勁的季度，也是淨利差連續第二季改善，淨利息收入增加。

We will continue to benefit from our solid risk management practices and our strong capital position as we move forward. Overall, we believe we are well positioned to navigate what is ahead and to take advantage of various opportunities to continue to grow the bank.

隨著我們不斷前進，我們將繼續受益於我們穩健的風險管理實踐和強大的資本狀況。總體而言，我們相信我們已準備好迎接未來的挑戰，並利用各種機會繼續推動銀行的發展。

With that said, Emily, we can now open the line for questions from the call attendees.

話雖如此，艾米麗，我們現在可以開放熱線來回答通話參與者的問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Jeff Rulis, DA Davidson & Co.

（操作員指示）Jeff Rulis，DA Davidson & Co.

Thanks. Good morning. Just checking in on the margin. And I guess, either Jennifer or all, first off, you have the December margin average. And the second piece of the question is, over the last quarter, trying to get the real-time sort of benefit of the restructuring, assuming that it wasn't all captured in the fourth quarter. And I guess, expectations for the margin ahead.

謝謝。早安.只是檢查一下邊緣。我想，無論是珍妮佛還是大家，首先，您都有 12 月的平均利潤率。問題的第二部分是，在過去一個季度中，試圖獲得重組的即時利益，假設它沒有全部在第四季度獲得。我想，這也是對未來利潤的預期。

Sure. Thanks, Jeff. Jennifer, I'll pass to you to answer that one.

當然。謝謝，傑夫。詹妮弗，我會讓你來回答這個問題。

Okay. Thank you. Just for December, our margin -- our core margin for December was 3.44%. So that's compared to a quarterly 3.39%. We do expect to see continued expansion in NIM, although it's going to be highly dependent on rates for deposits over the upcoming quarters but definitely some expansion over the next several quarters.

好的。謝謝。僅 12 月份，我們的利潤率——12 月份的核心利潤率為 3.44%。相比之下，本季的增幅為 3.39%。我們確實預計淨利差將繼續擴大，儘管這將高度依賴未來幾季的存款利率，但未來幾季肯定會有所擴大。

Okay. (multiple speakers)

好的。（多位發言者）

Sorry. Jeff, go ahead. You go ahead.

對不起。傑夫，繼續說。你先去吧。

No, just trying to kind of carve out the expectation for expansion. Some of that is sort of preloaded with the restructure and then there's sort of the baseline expectation on a quarter basis where you position. Just trying to piece that out a little bit. I know that's granular but hopeful.

不，只是試圖激發出擴張的期望。其中一些是經過重組預先加載的，然後是您按季度定位的基線預期。只是想稍微弄清楚一下。我知道這很細微，但卻充滿希望。

Jennifer, maybe a comment on when during the quarter the restructure happened if you have that information.

詹妮弗，如果您有這方面的信息，請就本季度重組發生的時間發表一下評論。

Yeah. We did it in the later half of the quarter. And so that would be impactful for more on November, December timeline. So we'll see some of continued improvement in Q1 for our margin. We also expect, on the borrowing side, our borrowing costs for the quarter were 5.02%. Our current spot rate for borrowings is about 4.7%. So we should see some continued reduction in borrowing costs as well.

是的。我們在本季後半段完成了這件事。這對 11 月、12 月的時間表會有更多影響。因此，我們將看到第一季的利潤率持續改善。我們也預計，在藉貸方面，本季的借貸成本為 5.02%。我們目前的借款即期利率約為4.7%。因此，我們也應該會看到借貸成本持續下降。

So again, we'll see some continued improvement in NIM. It will really just highly depend on balance sheet position and where our assets and liabilities are.

因此，我們將再次看到 NIM 的持續改善。這實際上高度取決於資產負債表的狀況以及我們的資產和負債狀況。

Okay. That's great. Thank you. And maybe, shifting to capital, for Jeff or Bryan, on the -- you saw the dividend increase. You're active on the buyback. Want to get a sense for is that -- any less that you guys -- you've seen really strong winds with teams. I just -- I don't know if those capital moves suggest that M&A is still out there, or maybe they're not exclusive of one another. Just checking in again on your priorities and opportunities out there.

好的。那太棒了。謝謝。也許，對傑夫或布萊恩來說，轉向資本——你會看到股息增加。您積極參與回購。想要了解的是——你們中任何一個人——都已經看到了團隊中真正強勁的風。我只是——我不知道這些資本舉措是否表明併購仍然存在，或者它們可能並不相互排斥。只是再次檢查你的優先事項和機會。

Sure. Sounds good, Jeff. I'll cover the M&A and the teams and then have Jennifer comment on just the other capital priorities. M&A is really -- the circumstance is really unchanged from last time we talked about it. Jeff and I are still active. And we, of course, have the slide 11 in the deck, same slide. So we're active in discussions but really, no change there.

當然。聽起來不錯，傑夫。我將介紹併購和團隊，然後讓珍妮佛評論其他資本優先事項。併購確實——情況與我們上次談論時相比沒有什麼變化。傑夫和我仍然活躍。當然，我們的投影片中有第 11 張，是同一張。因此，我們積極參與討論，但實際上沒有任何變化。

In terms of new teams, I'm confident that we'll do at least at least one additional team this year. We're very conscious of the expenses of adding a new team. But continue to be active in the market recruiting for top talent, have had good success in growing in markets and still see that as a high priority for us.

就新團隊而言，我相信我們今年至少會新增一支團隊。我們非常清楚增加一支新團隊的費用。但我們仍繼續積極地在市場上招募頂尖人才，在市場成長方面取得了良好的成功，我們仍然將此視為我們的首要任務。

Jennifer, pass to you for stock buybacks and lost trades.

詹妮弗，股票回購和交易損失都交給你。

For stock buybacks, we consider ourselves to be in a very good capital position. So we will consider moderate levels of buybacks, but it will be dependent on factors, such as stock price and other needs of capital. As noted earlier, we have about 990,000 shares outstanding or an ability to repurchase about 990,000 additional shares.

對於股票回購，我們認為我們的資本狀況非常好。因此，我們會考慮適度回購，但這將取決於股票價格和其他資本需求等因素。如前所述，我們約有 990,000 股流通股，或有能力回購約 990,000 股額外股份。

For the investment activity, we will consider additional loss trades if it makes sense at the time. And we found that the lost trades over the past several quarters have been very beneficial to us. We've picked up about over $17 million of additional income with approximately two-year earn-back period. And we do have more information on page 6 of our investor presentation that details out our quarterly loss trades.

對於投資活動，如果當時有意義的話，我們會考慮額外的損失交易。我們發現過去幾季的損失交易對我們非常有利。我們獲得了大約超過 1700 萬美元的額外收入，大約兩年的獲利期。我們的投資者報告第 6 頁確實有更多信息，詳細說明了我們的季度虧損交易。

But again, we'll consider doing that, but it will be highly dependent on the market at the time. Overall, our earn-back period is going to be about -- expected to be about three years.

但我們會考慮這樣做，但這將高度依賴當時的市場。整體而言，我們的獲利期預計約為三年。

Okay. Thanks for the detail.

好的。謝謝你的詳細說明。

Thanks, Jeff.

謝謝，傑夫。

David Feaster, Raymond James.

大衛菲斯特、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Hi. This is [Liam] on for David. How are you guys today?

你好。這是 [Liam] 為 David 主持的。大家今天好嗎？

Good. How are you?

好的。你好嗎？

Doing well. Thank you. So just following up on some of the loan commitments in the quarter. CRE and construction look like some of the key drivers. Can you talk about where you're seeing some of the opportunities and where there might be more to come in 2025?

做得很好。謝謝。因此，只是跟進本季度的一些貸款承諾。商業房地產和建築業看起來是一些關鍵的驅動因素。您能談談您看到的一些機會以及 2025 年可能出現的更多機會嗎？

Sure. And page 13 has a breakout of the new loan commitments on a quarterly basis going back to Q4 of last year. So Q1, Q2, Q3, we really -- it was C&I that drove the balances or drove the new commitments, which was what our focus has been, increasing the C&I volume for the benefit of the deposits. We did see a little higher CRE activity in the fourth quarter, and we have seen the number of new CRE opportunities pick up in terms of inbound inquiries. Our goal is to balance out the volume. And looking at what's in the pipeline now, it's probably closer to a 50-50 number between the C&I owner occupied CRE as compared to the non-owner. But we are watching it closely and encouraging our teams to continue to focus additional attention on the C&I activity.

當然。第 13 頁列出了自去年第四季以來的季度新貸款承諾明細。因此，在第一季、第二季和第三季度，我們確實認為是 C&I 推動了餘額或新的承諾，而這正是我們的重點，即增加 C&I 量以造福存款。我們確實看到第四季度的企業房地產活動略有增加，而且從入站諮詢來看，新的企業房地產機會數量也有所增加。我們的目標是平衡音量。從目前的情況來看，C&I 自住 CRE 與非自住 CRE 的比例可能更接近 50-50。但我們正在密切關注並鼓勵我們的團隊繼續關注 C&I 活動。

No, I appreciate that. Thank you. And moving to expenses, the expense control has been really impressive, and I appreciate the comments on managing FTEs. But what are your thoughts on the expense run rate moving forward into 2025?

不，我很感激。謝謝。談到費用，費用控制確實令人印象深刻，我很欣賞對管理 FTE 的評論。但是，您對 2025 年的費用運行率有何看法？

Sure. Jennifer, I'll pass it to you for that one.

當然。詹妮弗，我會把它傳給你。

Okay. So as you know that we continue to closely monitor our FTE levels, and our goal is to maintain FTE at about the year-end 2024 level. However, we have some initiatives, including the already noted expansion of builder banking business, which will add to our cost. We also have our annual merit increases and annual increases and vendor costs. So we're continuing to target the $41 million to $42 million range per quarter as noted in our prior call last quarter.

好的。因此，如您所知，我們將繼續密切監控我們的 FTE 水平，我們的目標是將 FTE 維持在 2024 年底左右的水平。然而，我們有一些舉措，包括已經注意到的建築商銀行業務的擴張，這將增加我們的成本。我們還有年度績效加薪、年度增加薪資和供應商成本。因此，我們繼續將每季的銷售額目標定在 4,100 萬美元至 4,200 萬美元之間，正如我們在上個季度的電話會議中所指出的那樣。

No, great. Thank you so much. And just one more, where do you expect your effective tax rate to be in 2025?

不，太好了。太感謝了。還有一個問題，您預期 2025 年的有效稅率是多少？

I can go ahead and answer that, Bryan. So you know in the fourth quarter that we did have a one-time cost for the BOLI restructure, which was about $2.4 million. Without that, we're about 12.5% effective tax rate for the quarter in the year. For 2025, we expect to be in about the 15% to 16% range.

我可以繼續回答這個問題，布萊恩。所以您知道，在第四季度，我們確實為 BOLI 重組花費了一次性成本，約 240 萬美元。如果沒有這個，我們本季的實際稅率約為 12.5%。到 2025 年，我們預計該比例將在 15% 至 16% 左右。

Thanks again. That's all for me. I'll step back.

再次感謝。對我來說這就是全部了。我就退後一步。

Okay. Thanks.

好的。謝謝。

Kelly Motta, KBW.

凱利·莫塔（Kelly Motta），KBW。

Hey, thank you so much for the question. I was hoping to get some color around what you're seeing on the deposit side. You had some good success with lowering deposit costs here in response to the first couple of rate cuts. Wondering how those conversations went if there's additional room to lower deposit costs and kind of the cadence of time deposit repricing as we look ahead this year?

嘿，非常感謝您的提問。我希望能夠了解您在存款方面看到的情況。在前幾次降息之後，你們在降低存款成本方面取得了一些成功。想知道這些談話的進展如何，展望今年，我們是否還有進一步降低存款成本的空間，以及定期存款重新定價的節奏？

Sure, Kelly. I just -- generally, I would say, obviously, the CD repricing is a little bit more programmed than what we're doing on our exception pricing on the money market accounts. But we have been studying the market and lowering the exception pricing on our money market accounts with each Fed adjustment. Those lagged the year end or sorry -- lagged the Fed cuts a little bit each time. So those are still playing out, but we haven't seen any major disruption. Most of our competitors [absent]. A few have lowered rates.

當然，凱利。我只是 — — 總的來說，我想說，顯然，CD 重新定價比我們在貨幣市場帳戶上的例外定價更加程序化。但我們一直在研究市場，並隨著聯準會的每次調整而降低貨幣市場帳戶的例外定價。這些舉措落後於年底，或者說抱歉——每次都落後於聯準會的降息幅度一點點。這些仍在進行中，但我們還沒有看到任何重大中斷。我們的大多數競爭對手[缺席的]。一些國家已經降低了利率。

On the CD side, most of the CDs are shorter term, and we have balances rolling off each quarter. Most of those rates are in kind of that [4.15%], [4.30%] range in terms of what's rolling off in Q1. And we've increased kind of our highest rates, our shorter-term rates. And so we've seen more of our customers renew into those shorter-term balances.

在 CD 方面，大多數 CD 期限較短，我們每季都會結轉餘額。從第一季的情況來看，大多數利率都在 [4.15%]、[4.30%] 的範圍內。我們提高了最高利率，即短期利率。因此，我們看到越來越多的客戶選擇續簽這些短期貸款餘額。

So we do have additional detail. If you'd like to cover any of it, I can pass it to Jennifer, and she can go through what some of those balances are that are rolling over the next few quarters.

所以我們確實有更多細節。如果您想了解其中的任何內容，我可以將其轉交給詹妮弗，她可以為您講解未來幾季將結轉的一些餘額。

Sure. Okay. So in Q1, we have about just under $400 million maturing and repricing; Q2, about $380 million. So you can see that a significant portion of our CDs are maturing in the first two quarters. We also have some broker deposits that are coming due. We actually have one that's coming due in the first quarter, and we think we'll probably see a 25- to 50-basis-point reduction in that, although it's not a significant dollar amount.

當然。好的。因此在第一季度，我們有大約近 4 億美元的債券到期並重新定價； Q2，約3.8億美元。因此，您可以看到，我們的很大一部分 CD 在前兩個季度到期。我們還有一些經紀人存款即將到期。實際上，我們有一筆債券將在第一季到期，我們認為這筆債券的利率可能會下降 25 到 50 個基點，儘管金額並不大。

So as far as Bryan said earlier as well, just on the regular money market and transaction accounts will be just highly dependent on the market whether we can continue to decrease rates.

正如布萊恩之前所說，僅在常規貨幣市場和交易帳戶上，我們是否能夠繼續降低利率將高度依賴市場。

Got it. Got it. That's helpful. And with -- you guys continue to work the loan-to-deposit ratio well up to kind of help boost profitability. And it looks like from the security sales you took, it doesn't look like proceeds were reinvested, and you're able to leverage the balance sheet a bit. Just wondering, absent further balance sheet restructuring at the margin, if there's any significant securities, maturities upcoming this year and how we should be thinking about managing the loan-to-deposit ratio ahead and how you're kind of thinking through the balance sheet that way.

知道了。知道了。這很有幫助。而你們繼續努力提高貸存比，以幫助提高獲利能力。從您進行的證券銷售來看，收益似乎沒有再投資，而且您可以稍微利用一下資產負債表。只是想知道，在沒有進一步進行資產負債表重組的情況下，今年是否會有任何重大證券到期，我們應該如何考慮管理未來的貸款與存款比率，以及您如何考慮資產負債表。

Yeah, just maybe to start, page 25 of the investor presentation does have those cash flows coming off of the securities portfolio. Deposit growth is one of our top priorities, obviously funding the growth. With core deposits, it's critical to generating the profitability absent, being -- continuing to do the lost sales and having the proceeds there. But we are comfortable taking the loan-to-deposit ratio up higher from here. And there is additional opportunities to add deposits.

是的，也許一開始，投資者簡報的第 25 頁確實有來自證券投資組合的現金流。存款成長是我們的首要任務之一，顯然是為了提供資金來成長。對於核心存款來說，產生獲利能力的關鍵在於——繼續彌補損失的銷售並獲得收益。但我們願意從現在開始提高貸存比。並且還有額外的機會來增加存款。

We've had really good success in the fourth quarter. We had a lot of new customer growth. At the same time, we saw customers spending excess money, not on -- not taking the money out of the bank to higher rate options as much as using it for distributions or buying real estate or expanding their businesses. So that was really the driver in the fourth quarter, just the lack of deposit growth that was more of use of cash by the customers versus taking the money out and moving it to a higher rate product that was available through a competitor.

我們在第四季取得了非常好的成功。我們有大量新客戶成長。同時，我們發現客戶花了過多的錢，而不是把錢從銀行取出用於更高利率的選擇，而是用來分配資金、購買房地產或擴大業務。所以這實際上是第四季度的驅動因素，只是存款成長不足，更多的是客戶使用現金，而不是將錢取出並轉移到可透過競爭對手獲得的更高利率的產品。

Got it. That's helpful. I'll step back. Thank you so much.

知道了。這很有幫助。我就退後一步。太感謝了。

Okay. Thanks, Kelly.

好的。謝謝，凱利。

(Operator Instructions) At this time, we have no further questions, and so I hand the call over to Bryan McDonald for closing remarks.

（操作員指示）目前，我們沒有其他問題，因此我將電話交給布萊恩·麥克唐納 (Bryan McDonald) 作結束語。

Okay. Thank you, Emily. If there are no more questions, then we'll wrap up this quarter's earnings call. We thank you for your time, your support, and your interest in our ongoing performance. We look forward to talking to many of you in the coming weeks. Thank you.

好的。謝謝你，艾米麗。如果沒有其他問題，我們將結束本季的收益電話會議。我們感謝您付出的時間、支持以及對我們持續表現的關注。我們期待在接下來的幾週內與你們進行交談。謝謝。

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. This concludes our call, and you may now disconnect your lines.

感謝大家今天的參與。我們的通話到此結束，您可以掛斷電話了。