Hawaiian Electric Industries Inc (HE) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello and welcome to the fourth quarter 2024 Hawaiian Electric Industries Inc earning conference call. (Operator Instructions)

您好，歡迎參加夏威夷電力工業公司 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

I would now like to turn the conference over Mateo Garcia, Director of Investor Relations. You may begin.

現在我想將會議交給投資者關係總監 Matto Garcia。你可以開始了。

Thank you. Welcome everyone to HEI's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings call. Joining me today are Scott Seu, HEI President and CEO; Scott DeGhetto, HEI Executive Vice President, CFO and Treasurer; Shelee Kimura, Hawaiian Electric President and CEO, and other members of senior management.

謝謝。歡迎大家參加 HEI 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。今天與我一起出席的還有 HEI 總裁兼執行長 Scott Seu； Scott DeGhetto，HEI 執行副總裁、財務長兼財務主管；夏威夷電力公司總裁兼執行長 Shelee Kimura 以及其他高階主管。

Our earnings release and our presentation for this call are available in the Investor Relations section of our website. As a reminder, forward-looking statements will be made on today's call. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations can be found in our presentation, our SEC filings and in the Investor Relations section of our website.

我們的收益報告和本次電話會議的簡報可在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。提醒一下，今天的電話會議將會做出前瞻性的陳述。可能導致實際結果與預期有重大差異的因素可以在我們的簡報、美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 文件以及我們網站的投資者關係部分中找到。

Today's presentation also includes references to non-GAAP financial measures. You should refer to the information contained in the slides accompanying today's presentation for definitional information and reconciliations of historical non-GAAP measures to the closest GAAP financial measure.

今天的演示也提到了非公認會計準則財務指標。您應該參考今天簡報附帶的幻燈片中包含的信息，以獲取定義資訊以及歷史非 GAAP 指標與最接近的 GAAP 財務指標的對帳資訊。

Now, Scott Sue we'll begin with his remarks.

現在，史考特·蘇，我們將開始他的發言。

Welcome everyone. For today's call, I'll start with an overview of the important accomplishments we've made over the past year and touch on our priorities going forward. I'll then turn it over to Scott DeGhetto, who will discuss the financial implications of recent announcements and walk through our financial results. We'll then open it up for questions.

歡迎大家。在今天的電話會議上，我將首先概述我們在過去一年中取得的重要成就，並談論我們未來的優先事項。然後我將把主題交給 Scott DeGhetto，他將討論最近公告的財務影響並介紹我們的財務結果。然後我們將開始回答問題。

The past year was pivotal in the history of our company, and I'm proud of what we've been able to accomplish. Since August of 2023, we've told you that our objective is to remain a strong financially healthy enterprise, best positioned to serve the communities in which we operate.

過去的一年是我們公司歷史上的關鍵一年，我為我們所取得的成就感到自豪。自 2023 年 8 月以來，我們一直告訴您，我們的目標是保持強大的財務狀況，為我們經營所在的社區提供最佳服務。

This objective has guided us throughout the past 18 months as we've taken prudent measured actions to maintain our financial strength in the wake of the Maui wildfires. In November 2024, we came together with other parties to sign final settlement agreements in the Maui wildfire tort litigation.

在過去的 18 個月裡，我們一直以此目標為指導，在毛伊島野火發生後，我們採取了審慎的措施來維持我們的財務實力。2024 年 11 月，我們與其他各方共同簽署了毛伊島野火侵權訴訟的最終和解協議。

We did so on an expedited basis, significantly enhancing clarity for our company's path ahead. This milestone accomplishment was the culmination of months of negotiations. And once fully approved by the court, the settlement will provide an accelerated path to recovery for those impacted by the fires.

我們迅速採取了這項措施，大大提高了公司未來發展道路的清晰度。這一里程碑式的成就是數月談判的成果。一旦獲得法院的完全批准，和解協議將為受火災影響的人們提供一條加速恢復的途徑。

Throughout the year, we took numerous actions to bolster our liquidity and ensure HEI is in the strongest possible financial position as we work toward finalizing the settlement. The successful equity offering we closed in September resulted in $558 million in net proceeds, fully funding our first payment under the settlement.

在這一年中，我們採取了多項措施來增強我們的流動性，並確保 HEI 在最終完成和解的過程中處於盡可能強勁的財務狀況。我們在 9 月成功完成的股票發行帶來了 5.58 億美元的淨收益，完全支付了我們根據和解協議支付的首筆款項。

We also strengthened our liquidity by putting in place a $250 million ATM program at the holding company and a $250 million accounts receivable backed credit facility at the utility. With these collective actions, we ended 2024 in the strongest liquidity position in our company's history.

我們還透過在控股公司實施 2.5 億美元的 ATM 計劃和在公用事業公司實施 2.5 億美元的應收帳款支持信貸額度來增強我們的流動性。透過這些集體行動，我們在 2024 年實現了公司歷史上最強勁的流動性狀況。

In late December, we completed the strategic review process for American Savings Bank. This transaction was the result of a deliberate and thoughtful process involving numerous potential buyers. After evaluating a range of factors including transaction certainty, proceeds, regulatory considerations and potential stakeholder impacts, our Board concluded that selling the bank to a group of independent investors was the best step forward.

12月下旬，我們完成了美國儲蓄銀行的策略檢討流程。這筆交易是經過深思熟慮、經過深思熟慮的程序的結果，涉及眾多潛在買家。在評估了交易確定性、收益、監管考慮和潛在利益相關者影響等一系列因素後，我們的董事會得出結論，將銀行出售給一群獨立投資者是最好的選擇。

Our sale of 90.1% of our bank simplifies HEI strategy and regulatory position and allows us to focus on our core utility business. The proceeds will be used to reduce holding company debt, strengthening our balance sheet and increasing financial flexibility going forward.

我們出售了 90.1% 的銀行股份，簡化了 HEI 策略和監管地位，使我們能夠專注於核心公用事業業務。所得款項將用於減少控股公司債務，加強我們的資產負債表並提高未來的財務靈活性。

Following the Maui wildfires, we also said that the utility would quickly implement enhanced wildfire safety measures while working closely with the community and other stakeholders to develop an updated long-term wildfire safety strategy.

毛伊島野火發生後，我們也表示，公用事業公司將迅速實施加強的野火安全措施，同時與社區和其他利害關係人密切合作，以製定更新的長期野火安全策略。

In 2024, the utility implemented impactful measures on an expedited basis and just last month submitted its updated long-term wildfire safety strategy, which I'll discuss in more detail shortly.

2024 年，該公用事業公司加快實施了有效措施，並在上個月提交了更新的長期野火安全戰略，我將在稍後詳細討論。

I'd add that the achievements made to progress the utility's wildfire safety strategy were made while continuing to progress another key strategic initiative, integrating increasing amounts of renewables on the utility's grid.

我想補充的是，在推進公用事業公司野火安全戰略方面取得的成就是在繼續推進另一項關鍵戰略舉措的同時，將越來越多的可再生能源整合到公用事業公司的電網中。

The utility achieved a 36% renewable portfolio standard in 2024, up from 33% in 2023. This keeps Hawaiian Electric on track to reach its interim goal of 40% RPS by 2030. The utility was able to achieve this milestone while reducing customer rates, and the average residential bill decreased 7% in 2024.

該公用事業公司在 2024 年實現了 36% 的再生能源組合標準，高於 2023 年的 33%。這使得夏威夷電力公司預計在 2030 年實現 40% RPS 的中期目標。該公用事業公司在降低客戶費率的同時實現了這一里程碑，2024 年平均居民電費下降了 7%。

And finally, our utility is continuing its efforts at the Hawaii State Legislature to pursue creation of a wildfire recovery fund and a mechanism to support independent power producer financing of clean energy projects.

最後，我們的公用事業公司正在夏威夷州立法機構繼續努力，爭取建立野火恢復基金和支持獨立電力生產商為清潔能源專案融資的機制。

I'd emphasize that it's still early in the legislative process, and our legislature is juggling a number of complicated issues this year. However, I'm pleased that the high level of engagement among so many in Hawaii to address these critical issues.

我想強調的是，立法過程還處於早期階段，我們的立法機構今年正在處理許多複雜的問題。然而，我很高興看到夏威夷有這麼多的人積極參與解決這些關鍵問題。

Turning to the next slide. We remain deeply committed to advancing wildfire mitigation efforts. And since launching an expanded wildfire safety strategy in the wake of the Maui wildfires, the utility has rapidly advanced efforts to reduce the risk of wildfires. In 2024 alone, the utility invested approximately $120 million to make wildfire safety improvements.

翻到下一張投影片。我們將繼續堅定致力於推進野火防治工作。自從毛伊島野火發生後啟動擴大的野火安全戰略以來，該公用事業公司已迅速加強降低野火風險。僅在 2024 年，該公用事業公司就投資了約 1.2 億美元用於改善野火安全。

In 2024, our utility launched a public safety power shut off program, tested and replaced thousands of utility poles, upgraded miles of overhead power lines, cleared intrusive vegetation near electrical equipment and installed weather stations and AI-assisted high-definition video cameras across our service territories.

2024 年，我們的公用事業公司啟動了一項公共安全斷電計劃，測試並更換了數千根電線桿，升級了幾英里的架空電線，清除了電氣設備附近的侵入性植被，並在我們的服務區域內安裝了氣象站和人工智慧輔助高清攝影機。

These initiatives reflect our ongoing dedication to supporting Hawaii's resilience and safety in the face of increasingly severe weather events. I'm pleased that we were able to make such substantial strides in 2024 to reduce the risk of wildfires ignited by utility equipment.

這些舉措體現了我們持續致力於支持夏威夷在日益惡劣的天氣事件中的復原力和安全。我很高興我們能夠在 2024 年取得如此重大的進展，以降低公用設備引發野火的風險。

In January, the utility filed an updated wildfire safety strategy with the PUC. The updated strategy builds on the immediate actions taken in response to the August 2023 wildfires and establishes a three-year action plan for 2025 through 2027.

今年 1 月，該公用事業公司向公共事業委員會提交了更新的野火安全策略。更新後的策略以應對 2023 年 8 月野火的緊急行動為基礎，並制定了 2025 年至 2027 年的三年行動計畫。

The cost of the plan is estimated at about $450 million with approximately $400 million expected to be capital expenditures. The ultimate objective of the plan is to identify and implement measures that can accomplish the greatest risk reduction while balancing affordability and reliability for our communities. The utility's approach to accomplish this is detailed on slide 5.

該計劃的成本估計約為 4.5 億美元，其中預計約 4 億美元為資本支出。該計劃的最終目標是確定並實施能夠最大程度降低風險同時平衡社區承受能力和可靠性的措施。投影片 5 詳細介紹了該公用事業公司實現這一目標的方法。

I'd note that implementation of the wildfire safety strategy will be an evolving process, which will include annual updates to the PUC and ongoing assessments of wildfire risk mitigation measures and environmental conditions.

我要指出的是，野火安全戰略的實施將是一個不斷發展的過程，其中包括對 PUC 的年度更新以及對野火風險緩解措施和環境條件的持續評估。

Lastly, I'll note that on February 6, the Hawaii Supreme Court heard oral arguments in the proceeding to resolve the outstanding issues with insurers who filed subrogation claims related to the 2023 Maui wildfires. Just a few days later, on February 10, the court issued a unanimous decision in our favor.

最後，我要指出的是，2 月 6 日，夏威夷最高法院聽取了口頭辯論，以解決與 2023 年毛伊島野火相關的代位求償權的保險公司的未決問題。僅僅幾天后，2月10日，法院就做出了對我們有利的一致判決。

The court's decision aligns with our position on key questions that arose from insurers' challenges to the settlement. It clarifies that once the settlement becomes final, insurers seeking to recover amounts paid to settling plaintiffs cannot separately sue defendants.

法院的裁決與我們對保險公司對和解協議提出質疑而產生的關鍵問題的立場一致。它明確指出，一旦和解最終確定，尋求追回支付給和解原告金額的保險公司不能單獨起訴被告。

We're pleased that the court's decision aligns with our arguments and was issued on an accelerated timeline. The decision helps move the settlement forward, bringing increased certainty to those who suffered loss in the Maui wildfires, while providing more clarity for our company's path toward reestablishing financial stability.

我們很高興法院的判決符合我們的論點，並且是在加速的時間內發布的。這項決定有助於推動和解進程，為在毛伊島野火中遭受損失的人們帶來更多確定性，同時也為我們公司重建財務穩定的道路提供了更清晰的指引。

This was a key step in finalizing the settlement, and the Second Circuit Court in Maui can now consider the settlement agreements for final judicial approval. We expect our first payment obligation under the settlement to become due late this year or early next.

這是最終和解的關鍵一步，毛伊島第二巡迴法院現在可以考慮和解協議以獲得最終的司法批准。我們預計，根據和解協議，我們的第一筆付款義務將於今年年底或明年年初到期。

In summary, with our simpler, more focused business model, strong liquidity position and measures in place to protect against the risk of catastrophic weather events going forward, we believe we're well positioned to continue executing on our priorities.

總而言之，憑藉我們更簡單、更專注的商業模式、強大的流動性狀況以及為防範未來災難性天氣事件風險而採取的措施，我們相信我們已做好準備繼續執行我們的優先事項。

Looking ahead, we'll continue to focus on obtaining supportive legislation, finalizing and implementing the settlement agreement in the Maui wildfire tort litigation, and ultimately returning to investment grade.

展望未來，我們將繼續致力於獲得支持性立法，最終確定並執行毛伊島野火侵權訴訟的和解協議，並最終恢復投資等級。

With that, I'll now turn the call over to Scott DeGhetto.

說完這些，我現在將電話轉給 Scott DeGhetto。

Thank you, Scott. Turning to slide 7, I'll first touch briefly on the previously announced ASB transaction. At the end of 2024, we closed on the sale of 90.1% of ASB for $405 million based on a total valuation of $450 million. We are pleased to have completed this transaction in the timeline that we did with simultaneous signing and closing.

謝謝你，斯科特。翻到第 7 張投影片，我將先簡單談談先前宣布的 ASB 交易。2024 年底，我們以 4.05 億美元的價格出售了 ASB 90.1% 的股份，總估值為 4.5 億美元。我們很高興能夠在規定的時間內透過同時簽署和結束的方式完成了這筆交易。

The structure allowed us to avoid lengthy and uncertain regulatory reviews. The net proceeds of approximately $380 million will be used to pay down holding company debt. ASB's 2024 results are presented as discontinued operations in the consolidated financial statements.

這種結構使我們能夠避免冗長且不確定的監管審查。約 3.8 億美元的淨收益將用於償還控股公司債務。ASB 的 2024 年業績在合併財務報表中列為已終止經營。

For the full year 2024, the net loss from discontinued operations totaled $103 million compared to net income of $53 million in 2023. The $103 million loss includes a net loss on the sale transaction of approximately $116 million, which is net of a $2.4 million tax benefit.

2024 年全年，非持續經營淨虧損總計 1.03 億美元，而 2023 年淨收入為 5,300 萬美元。1.03 億美元的損失包括約 1.16 億美元的銷售交易淨損失，並扣除 240 萬美元的稅收優惠。

Excluding wildfire expenses, the goodwill impairment recorded in the second quarter and the net loss recorded due to the sale transaction, ASB's core net income for 2024 was $79 million. The remainder of my comments on the quarter's results will focus on our continuing operations.

不包括野火費用、第二季記錄的商譽減損以及因出售交易而記錄的淨虧損，ASB 2024 年的核心淨收入為 7,900 萬美元。我對本季業績的其餘評論將集中於我們的持續經營。

For the full year 2024, we generated a loss from continuing operations of $1.3 billion. The results include wildfire settlement accruals of $1.9 billion pre-tax, as well as the impacts of other Maui wildfire-related expenses. The results also include the $35 million asset impairment recorded at Pacific Current in the third quarter.

2024 年全年，我們的持續經營虧損為 13 億美元。結果包括稅前 19 億美元的野火賠償金，以及其他與毛伊島野火相關的費用的影響。該業績還包括 Pacific Current 第三季記錄的 3,500 萬美元資產減損。

Excluding these items, consolidated core net income was $124 million compared to $152 million in 2023. Utility core net income was $181 million compared to $195 million in 2023. The decrease in utility coordinate income was driven by higher O&M expenses which included increased wildfire prevention related expenses such as vegetation management.

不包括這些項目，合併核心淨收入為 1.24 億美元，而 2023 年為 1.52 億美元。公用事業核心淨收入為 1.81 億美元，而 2023 年為 1.95 億美元。公用事業協調收入的減少是由於營運和維護費用增加，其中包括植被管理等與野火預防相關的費用增加。

Holding company core net loss was $56 million compared to $43 million in 2023. The higher core net loss was driven by lower Pacific current net income due to outages at both the Hamakua and Mahipapa generating facilities.

控股公司核心淨虧損為 5,600 萬美元，而 2023 年為 4,300 萬美元。核心淨虧損增加是由於哈瑪庫亞 (Hamakua) 和馬希帕帕 (Mahipapa) 發電廠停電導致太平洋公司當期淨收入下降。

Turning to our liquidity on the next slide. As of the end of the fourth quarter, the holding company and the utility had approximately $566 million and $184 million of unrestricted cash on hand respectively. The holding company cash balance includes the approximately $380 million from the ASB sale that will be used to retire debt.

下一張投影片將討論我們的流動性。截至第四季末，控股公司和公用事業公司分別擁有約 5.66 億美元和 1.84 億美元的非限制現金。控股公司現金餘額包括 ASB 出售所得的約 3.8 億美元，將用於償還債務。

In addition, $479 million has been set aside in a wholly owned subsidiary created for the specific purpose of holding the first installment payment pursuant to the Maui wildfire settlement. This is included in restricted cash on the balance sheet.

此外，還撥出 4.79 億美元用於設立全資子公司，專門用於支付毛伊島山火和解協議規定的第一筆分期付款。這包括在資產負債表的受限現金中。

Looking ahead, we will continue to prudently manage our liquidity as we work through finalizing the settlement and as we formulate financing plans for future settlement payments and utility capital expenditure needs.

展望未來，我們將繼續審慎管理我們的流動性，完成和解並制定未來和解付款和公用事業資本支出需求的融資計劃。

At that, let's open up the call to questions.

現在，讓我們開始提問環節。

(Operator Instructions) Mike Lonegan, Evercore.

（操作員指示）Mike Lonegan，Evercore。

Hi. thanks for taking my questions. So, obviously, the Hawaii Supreme Court issued their ruling that the insurers can't bring their separate legal action against the defendants.

你好。感謝您回答我的問題。因此，顯然，夏威夷最高法院做出了裁決，保險公司不能對被告提起單獨的法律訴訟。

I was just wondering if you could talk about your confidence level that the settlement will proceed forward without any more interference from the insurance companies, whether the case be appealed to the US Supreme Court, or if the insurers try to make other arguments, maybe they try to say the settlement was reached in bad faith or pursue another avenue to disrupt it.

我只是想知道您是否可以談談您對和解將在不受保險公司幹擾的情況下繼續推進的信心程度，無論案件是否上訴至美國最高法院，或者如果保險公司試圖提出其他論點，也許他們會試圖說和解是惡意達成的，或者尋求其他途徑來破壞它。

Yeah. No. Thanks for the question, Mike. So the bottom line up front, the conclusion of the Hawaii Supreme Court decision that was a very positive and a major step towards finalizing the settlement agreement. So we're really pleased with the outcome. We are awaiting for the written order to come from the Supreme Court, which will probably be issued in the coming weeks.

是的。不。謝謝你的提問，麥克。因此，首先要說的是，夏威夷最高法院的裁決是一個非常積極的決定，也是朝著最終達成和解協議的重要一步。所以我們對結果非常滿意。我們正在等待最高法院的書面命令，該命令可能會在未來幾週內發布。

At some point we'll move to dismiss the subrogation insurers' claims taking into account the Hawaii Supreme Court ruling. I can't really say when we would time that motion. We're still considering the timing on that motion.

在某個時候，我們會根據夏威夷最高法院的裁決，駁回代位求償保險公司的索賠。我真的無法說出我們何時會採取這​​項行動。我們仍在考慮該動議的時間。

Next steps going forward to finalize the settlement through the court would be we expect the class and individual plaintiffs to announce their agreement on how they're allocating the aggregate settlement amount between the class fund and the individual fund. And after that occurs, then the class will move for preliminary approval. And once that's granted, begin the notice process.

下一步，我們將透過法院最終達成和解，我們希望集體原告和個人原告宣布他們就如何在集體基金和個人基金之間分配總和解金額達成協議。此後，該課程將進行初步審批。一旦獲得批准，就開始通知流程。

After that is there's going to be an opportunity for claimants to opt out or object to the class settlement, obtain good faith settlement determinations and final class approval. So in terms of timing, we expect preliminary approval in the second quarter. Objection and opt-out deadlines to be in the third quarter and the approval hearing to be in the fourth quarter of 2025, of course, timing of all of this could shift.

此後，索賠人將有機會選擇退出或反對集體和解，獲得誠信和解裁定和最終的集體批准。因此就時間而言，我們預計在第二季獲得初步批准。反對和退出的最後期限將在第三季度，而批准聽證會將在 2025 年第四季度，當然，所有這些的時間可能會發生變化。

But let me get back to the overall our outcome and confidence level. So obviously, this the outcome we're hoping for and it's just a matter of working through the process now.

但讓我回到我們的整體成果和信心水準。顯然，這就是我們所希望的結果，現在只需要完成這個過程。

Got it. Thanks. And then on CapEx, you highlighted you're going to invest nearly $400 million in wildfire safety over the next few years. I think you previously said, your maintenance capital is about $300 million a year.

知道了。謝謝。然後在資本支出方面，您強調說，未來幾年您將在野火安全方面投資近 4 億美元。我記得您之前說過，您的維護資金每年約 3 億美元。

Just wondering if you could share what your total investment level we should expect over the next few years and what rate-based growth that could drive and then also how we should think about your FFO to debt target as you finance the settlement payments.

只是想知道您是否可以分享我們在未來幾年應該預期的總投資水平以及可能推動的基於利率的增長，以及在您為結算付款提供資金時我們應該如何考慮您的 FFO 與債務目標。

Okay. Mike, I'm going to have Paul Ito, Hawaiian Electric CFO respond to your question.

好的。麥克，我將讓夏威夷電力公司首席財務官保羅·伊托 (Paul Ito) 回答您的問題。

Hey Mike, thanks for the question. So right now, we are currently refining our three-year capital forecasts in light of the recently filed wildfire safety strategy. And in addition, we're preparing for a potential rate case. And this refinement process includes, number one, prioritizing the projects. And then number two, assessing the availability and cost of resources, both internal and external.

嘿，麥克，謝謝你的提問。因此，目前我們正在根據最近提交的野火安全戰略來完善我們的三年資本預測。此外，我們正在為潛在的利率案件做準備。這個改進過程首先包括確定項目的優先順序。第二，評估內部和外部資源的可用性和成本。

So subject to the foregoing caveats, over the three years, we do expect an increasing level of potential CapEx. For 2025, we're targeting to be moderately higher than 2024, probably in the $350 million to $375 million range.

因此，根據上述警告，在未來三年內，我們確實預期潛在資本支出水準將會增加。對於 2025 年，我們的目標是比 2024 年略高一些，大概在 3.5 億美元到 3.75 億美元之間。

In 2026 and 2027, we do have additional opportunities for CapEx. So as you mentioned, our baseline CapEx would be the first layer that's again in the $300 million range. We talked about the wildfire safety strategy in terms of $400 million roughly over the three years. But in addition to that, we also have approved EPRM projects that we would start work on.

2026 年和 2027 年，我們確實有額外的資本支出機會。正如您所說，我們的基準資本支出將是第一層，再次達到 3 億美元的範圍。我們討論了三年內投入約 4 億美元的野火安全戰略。但除此之外，我們也批准了將要開始實施的 EPRM 計畫。

There are a number of those projects. The largest ones include our Waiau repowering project. It's a 253 megawatt repowering. We have our Waena BESS project, army privatization and some resilience work.

有很多這樣的項目。其中最大的項目包括我們的 Waiau 再發電項目。這是一次 253 兆瓦的再發電。我們有 Waena BESS 計畫、軍隊私有化和一些復原力工作。

But in aggregate, if you take all of those together, these projects would generally add roughly, call it, $150 million to $175 million in 2026 and then somewhere in the range of $200 million to $250 million in 2027. So again, subject to resource availability, but in broad strokes that's the level of CapEx that we're forecasting.

但總的來說，如果把所有這些項目加在一起，這些項目通常會在 2026 年增加約 1.5 億至 1.75 億美元，然後在 2027 年增加 2 億至 2.5 億美元左右。因此，再次強調，這取決於資源的可用性，但大體上，這就是我們預測的資本支出水準。

In addition to that, we do have some additional EPRM projects that are not approved, of course, subject to approval by the PUC. So again, rough estimates, but I think it gives you a general sense of our CapEx plan going forward.

除此之外，我們還有一些額外的 EPRM 項目尚未獲得批准，當然，需要獲得 PUC 的批准。所以，再次強調，這只是粗略估計，但我認為這可以讓您大致了解我們未來的資本支出計劃。

And then I'll turn it over to Scott to talk about the FFO to debt question.

然後我將把話題交給史考特，讓他討論 FFO 與債務的問題。

Yeah. On the FFO side, we're not going to give you like a specific target other than to say we're going to target investment grade credit ratings. And so, I think you understand what that means from an FFO to depth perspective.

是的。在 FFO 方面，我們不會給你一個具體的目標，只是說我們將瞄準投資等級信用評級。所以，我認為您從 FFO 到深度角度理解了這意味著什麼。

And if you look historically where we were, we tended to be, I think, higher than the peers and we're just going to try and stay in the allowed ranges from all three of the agencies again to maintain or at least not maintain but target an investment grade rating.

如果你回顧我們的歷史，你會發現我們的評級往往高於同行，我們只是試圖保持在這三個機構允許的範圍內，以維持或至少不維持投資等級。

Got it. Thanks. And then lastly from me, in the Hawaii legislative session, I know it's early, with some concerns about customer bills, there was an amended version of House Bill 982 that proposes that about roughly half of the $1 billion wildfire insurance fund will be financed by shareholders with the other half by customers through securitization.

知道了。謝謝。最後，我要說的是，在夏威夷立法會議上，我知道現在還為時過早，由於對客戶法案有一些擔憂，眾議院第 982 號法案有一個修訂版，提議 10 億美元野火保險基金中大約一半將由股東出資，另一半將由客戶通過證券化出資。

I was just wondering based on your plans to finance the settlement with a combination of debt and equity and your goal to return to investment grade. In a scenario such as this, where you have to finance $500 million-plus on behalf of investors, how -- obviously, large relative to the size of your company, how do you think about financing it? Anything you can share there?

我只是想知道，根據您計劃透過債務和股權相結合的方式為和解提供資金，以及您恢復投資等級的目標。在這種情況下，您必須代表投資者融資 5 億多美元，這顯然相對於您公司的規模來說是一個很大的數目，您如何考慮融資？能分享什麼嗎？

Yeah. Mike, like I said in my earlier comments, it is very early in the process, and there's a lot of debate going on. I'll note that in the most recent version of that bill, the actual amounts that would possibly be coming from shareholders was blanked out.

是的。麥克，就像我在之前的評論中所說的那樣，這個過程還處於非常早期的階段，還有很多爭論。我要指出的是，在該法案的最新版本中，可能來自股東的實際金額被劃掉了。

So to me, it's an indication that it is early in the process. I think it's fair to say that everybody, including the utility is very focused on impacts of customers on customers. But we'll just have to see how this plays out.

所以對我來說，這表明這個過程還處於早期階段。我認為可以公平地說，包括公用事業公司在內的每個人都非常關注客戶對客戶的影響。但我們只需看看事情會如何發展。

(Operator Instructions) Julien Dumoulin-Smith, Jefferies.

（操作員指示）Julien Dumoulin-Smith，Jefferies。

Hey, good afternoon team. Thank you, guys, very much for the time. I appreciate it. I just wanted to pick up on that last point there. Just wanted to understand how you guys are thinking about framing the wildfire legislation. Maybe perhaps, firstly, you're building stakeholder support. We got a crossover day coming up here in the next handful of weeks.

嘿，大家下午好。非常感謝你們抽出時間。我很感激。我只是想談談最後一點。只是想了解你們是如何考慮制定野火立法的。或許，首先，您正在建立利害關係人的支持。在接下來的幾週內，我們將在這裡迎來一個交叉日。

Can you speak to a little bit about your successes thus far on that front? I'll note for instance, the senator who seemingly prevented this bill last time from coming out of a committee has sponsored the new iteration. I find that notable.

您能否談談迄今為止您在這方面的成功？舉個例子，我要指出的是，上次似乎阻止該法案在委員會中通過的參議員現在支持了新的法案。我覺得很值得注意。

And then separately, obviously, last core and you didn't have the in hand. And so, presumably that should have unlocked a separate set of pathways and stakeholders. But be very curious to see how you would set expectations of both what the major building blocks are that are viable. And then B, process and what we should be expecting on these upcoming crossover dates. I think the first one's on March 6 if I got it right.

然後，顯然，最後的核心是你沒有掌握的。因此，據推測這應該會解鎖一組單獨的途徑和利害關係人。但請非常好奇地看看您將如何設定對可行的主要建置模組的期望。然後是 B，過程以及我們應該對這些即將到來的交叉日期期待什麼。如果我沒記錯的話，第一個是在 3 月 6 日。

Yeah. So the way I think about it, Julien, is, yeah, there has been a lot of positive momentum, especially when we compare against where we were last year, last session, right? A year ago, we didn't know what the outcome of the settlement discussions would be. We weren't quite sure in terms of our overall how quickly we could move through the litigation process and so on.

是的。所以，朱利安，我的想法是，是的，有很多積極的勢頭，特別是當我們與去年、上屆會議的情況相比時，對嗎？一年前，我們不知道和解談判的結果會是什麼。就整體而言，我們不太確定我們能夠多快完成訴訟程序等等。

So where we are today is in a much more positive stance and there's a lot more clarity. So with that, that's provided the basis for these discussions to resume in the legislature. And yes, there are always going to be some pretty tough questions coming about in terms of how do we manage impacts on customers.

因此，我們今天的立場更加積極，而且更加清晰。因此，這為立法機關恢復這些討論提供了基礎。是的，在我們如何管理對客戶的影響方面，總是會出現一些相當棘手的問題。

How do we balance the needs of our customers, our shareholders, while we still are moving towards strengthening the financial positioning of the company so that we can continue to provide service. So those are all swirling around during these legislative discussions right now.

我們如何平衡客戶和股東的需求，同時我們仍在努力加強公司的財務定位，以便我們能夠繼續提供服務。所以這些都是目前立法討論中討論的問題。

And the way that I will always remind people is that we fully expect that we have to have these discussions where we are right now in the process at the legislature. Yes, it was very -- I think it was a very positive sign that our state senator was willing to reintroduce the bill. And again, it's to tee up the discussion to debate the issues.

我總是提醒人們的是，我們完全預料到我們必須在立法過程中進行這些討論。是的，我認為這是一個非常積極的信號，表明我們的州參議員願意重新提出法案。再次強調，這是為了展開討論並辯論相關問題。

I think it was very positive when you read the introductions to those bills in terms of the recognition why establishment of something like a wildfire recovery fund is good policy and will provide benefits for customers, for the company and the state of Hawaii.

我認為，當你閱讀這些法案的介紹時，你會感到非常積極，因為它們認識到建立像野火恢復基金這樣的基金是一項好的政策，並將為客戶、公司和夏威夷州帶來利益。

So I think that what we'd expect is that there's going to be continued ongoing debate, and we'll be participating in that. There are certain elements of the legislation that are very important to us in order to have the benefits of balancing the risk to customers as well as to shareholders.

所以我認為，我們期望的是，辯論將會持續進行，而我們也將參與其中。為了平衡客戶和股東的風險，立法中的某些要素對我們來說非常重要。

We'll just be part of that process and I'm just very, very pleased in terms of, like I said earlier, the fact that we are in the mix, we have these bills going forward and we're having a debate.

我們只是這個過程的一部分，我感到非常高興，就像我之前說的，我們參與其中，我們正在推進這些法案，我們正在進行辯論。

And maybe just as a follow up if we can address securitization directly. I mean, obviously the rating agencies have taken a fairly hard line on this subject. I mean, can you speak a little bit to the prospects of getting something that would suffice with the agencies here and maybe speak to that issue a little bit further, both in terms of the prospects and in process here in the legislature as well as to the nuance of exactly what is being prescribed by the agencies at this point in time. If we can get enough of that.

如果我們可以直接解決證券化問題，也許這只是後續行動。我的意思是，評級機構顯然對這個問題採取了相當強硬的立場。我的意思是，您能否稍微談談獲得足以滿足這些機構要求的方案的前景，並進一步談談這個問題，包括前景和立法機構的進程，以及目前這些機構所規定的具體細節。如果我們能夠得到足夠的滿足。

Well, let me comment first with the perspective of the legislative discussions regarding securitization. I think given all the discussion that started last session and have that continued to this year, I think there is a fairly good understanding now of why securitization makes a lot of sense in terms of being able to secure lower cost financing which ultimately goes towards benefiting our customers. So I think that's a positive.

嗯，我先從證券化立法討論的角度來評論一下。我認為，考慮到上屆會議開始並持續到今年的所有討論，現在大家已經相當理解為什麼證券化在確保低成本融資方面非常有意義，這最終將使我們的客戶受益。所以我認為這是積極的。

As far as the second part of your question, what are the expectations of the rating agencies, I'll have Scott DeGhetto comment on that.

至於您問題的第二部分，評級機構的期望是什麼，我將讓 Scott DeGhetto 對此發表評論。

Yeah. I think that the agencies, all three of them want to see some backstop fund among other things to enhance ratings. Again, to Scott's earlier point, I think it's too early in the process from a legislative process standpoint to determine where that's going to shake out.

是的。我認為，這三家評級機構都希望看到一些支持基金等來提高評級。再次，回到史考特之前的觀點，我認為從立法程序的角度來看，現在判斷結果還為時過早。

And if we get it, it's obviously credit positive or if we get some sort of bill that resembles what's been introduced in the legislature, it'll be credit positive. And if we don't, we'll just continue to work with the rating agencies and develop a plan to get to investment grade as best we possibly can. But again, I think it's just too soon to speculate.

如果我們得到了它，那顯然會對信譽產生積極影響，或者如果我們得到了類似於立法機關提出的某種法案，那也會對信譽產生積極影響。如果我們不這樣做，我們將繼續與評級機構合作並製定計劃，盡可能達到投資等級。但我再次認為現在猜測還為時過早。

Yeah, absolutely. And just in terms of creating a pathway here for funding, I know that you said a second ago it was blanked out in the 982 about any shareholder funding. But can you speak to -- I mean, Scott, you've been very diligent thus far in managing the company through this difficult period in terms of ensuring an ongoing access to capital and more specifically a cash flow positive backdrop for the core company if you think about the finances and need, providing a clear latitude through the near and medium terms to find resolution here out of this all.

是的，絕對是如此。就創建融資途徑而言，我知道您剛才說過，982 號文件沒有明確提到任何關於股東融資的內容。但是您能否談談——我的意思是，斯科特，到目前為止，您在管理公司度過這個困難時期方面非常勤奮，確保持續獲得​​資金，更具體地說，如果您考慮財務和需求，為核心公司提供正現金流背景，在短期和中期內提供明確的自由度來找到解決這一切的方法。

Yeah. And again, we haven't given any direct guidance in terms of how we'll fund the balance of the settlement payments as we've said on previous calls. But as we go forward, we're continuously looking at the capital markets. We have, in my opinion, strong access that was demonstrated by the equity deal that was done in September, which was well oversubscribed.

是的。再次強調，正如我們在之前的電話會議上所說的那樣，我們還沒有就如何支付和解金餘額提供任何直接指導。但隨著我們不斷前進，我們會不斷關注資本市場。我認為，我們擁有強大的管道，9 月完成的股權交易證明了這一點，該交易獲得了超額認購。

The utility refunded the $50 million maturity that they had coming due in January. They did that prior to the end of the year. We've had a number of firms reach out to us on refinancing the $50 million that comes due at HEI in December.

該公用事業公司償還了 1 月到期的 5,000 萬美元債務。他們在年底前就完成了這件事。已經有多家公司與我們聯繫，希望對 HEI 12 月到期的 5,000 萬美元進行再融資。

And we're receiving inbounds quite regularly on what's going on in the capital markets, our access both to the debt and the equity markets. So I feel very confident about our access going forward. And again, we've pre-funded that payment approximately a year in advance. And so, we really have a lot of time to continue to develop our thoughts around how we'll finance the balance of those payments.

我們定期收到有關資本市場動態以及我們進入債務市場和股票市場的資訊。因此，我對我們未來的發展充滿信心。再次強調，我們已經提前約一年預付了這筆款項。因此，我們確實有很多時間來繼續思考如何為這些付款的餘額提供資金。

Right. Let me ask that maybe more directly here. There's no equity raised contemplated at least in the medium term from what I can tell based on what you would need barring any changes like the legislature.

正確的。讓我在這裡更直接地問這個問題。就我所知，至少在中期內，基於你需要的條件（除非立法機構做出任何改變），我們不會考慮增加股權。

Yeah. The answer to that question is yes. We don't have any anticipated equity raises. And we don't have any anticipated drawdowns or use on the ATM facility either.

是的。這個問題的答案是肯定的。我們沒有任何預期的股權增發。而且我們也沒有任何預期的提款或使用 ATM 設施的打算。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I'll turn the call to Scott Seu for closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。我將請 Scott Seu 致閉幕詞。

Mahalo to everybody for calling in today. So in closing, 2024 was a year of really significant achievements in the face of unprecedented challenges facing our company. I really feel that we've made rapid progress towards rebuilding the financial strength of our enterprise.

感謝大家今天的來電。總而言之，面對我們公司面臨的前所未有的挑戰，2024 年是真正重大成就的一年。我確實感覺到我們在重建企業財務實力方面取得了快速進展。

And again, just want to highlight that with the recent favorable supreme court decision, we're well positioned to navigate the path ahead. Again, I want to thank our shareholders, a great many of whom are our neighbors here in Hawaii for your continued investment in HEI. We greatly appreciate your support as we continue to help our communities move forward. Mahalo.

我再次強調，憑藉最高法院最近的有利判決，我們已做好準備，以更好地掌握未來的道路。再次，我要感謝我們的股東，他們中的許多人都是我們在夏威夷的鄰居，感謝你們對 HEI 的持續投資。我們非常感謝您的支持，我們將繼續幫助我們的社區前進。謝謝。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。