Hudson Technologies Inc (HDSN) 2021 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Hudson Technologies' Fourth Quarter Year-end 2021 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們先生們，下午好，歡迎來到哈德遜科技公司 2021 年第四季度年終財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to your host, John Nesbett, Investor Relations for Hudson Technologies. Sir, the floor is yours.

現在我很高興將發言權交給哈德遜科技投資者關係部的主持人 John Nesbett。先生，地板是你的。

Thank you. Good evening, and welcome to our conference call to discuss Hudson Technologies financial results for the fourth quarter and year-end 2021. On the call today are Brian Coleman, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Nat Krishnamurti, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝。晚上好，歡迎參加我們的電話會議，討論 Hudson Technologies 第四季度和 2021 年底的財務業績。今天的電話會議是總裁兼首席執行官 Brian Coleman；和首席財務官 Nat Krishnamurti。

I'll now take a moment to read the safe harbor statement. During the course of this conference call, we will make certain forward-looking statements. All statements that address expectations, opinions and predictions about the future are forward-looking statements. Although they reflect our current expectations and are based on our best view of the industry and our businesses as we see them today, they are not guarantees of future performance. Please understand that these statements involve a number of risks and assumptions, and since those elements can change and in certain cases, are not within our control, we would ask that you consider and interpret them in that light. We urge you to review Hudson's most recent Form 10-K and other subsequent SEC filings for a discussion of the principal risks and uncertainties that affect our business and our performance and for the factors that could cause actual results to differ materially.

我現在花點時間閱讀安全港聲明。在本次電話會議期間，我們將做出某些前瞻性陳述。所有涉及對未來的期望、意見和預測的陳述都是前瞻性陳述。儘管它們反映了我們當前的期望，並且基於我們對行業和業務的最佳看法，但它們並不能保證未來的表現。請理解，這些陳述涉及許多風險和假設，並且由於這些因素可能會發生變化，並且在某些情況下不在我們的控制範圍內，我們會要求您從這個角度考慮和解釋它們。我們敦促您查看 Hudson 最近的 10-K 表格和其他隨後提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件，以討論影響我們業務和業績的主要風險和不確定性，以及可能導致實際結果出現重大差異的因素。

Okay. With that, I will now turn the call over to Brian Coleman. Go ahead, Brian.

好的。有了這個，我現在將把電話轉給布賴恩科爾曼。來吧，布賴恩。

Good evening, and thank you for joining us. We're pleased to have closed 2021 with record fourth quarter and full year results. Our strong fourth quarter performance reflected significant revenue growth, enhanced margins and improved profitability.

晚上好，感謝您加入我們。我們很高興以創紀錄的第四季度和全年業績結束了 2021 年。我們強勁的第四季度業績反映了收入的顯著增長、利潤率的提高和盈利能力的提高。

It is important to note that our fourth quarter has historically been our weakest quarter, given that it falls outside our traditional 9-month selling season, which takes place from January through September.

重要的是要注意，我們的第四季度歷來是我們最疲軟的季度，因為它不在我們傳統的 9 個月銷售旺季（從 1 月到 9 月）之外。

However, after the close of the selling season this year, the industry saw a continued strength in the average selling price of certain refrigerants, which drove our unusually strong fourth quarter performance. Looking forward, we are energized to carry the momentum we built throughout 2021 into 2022.

然而，在今年銷售旺季結束後，行業看到某些製冷劑的平均售價持續走強，這推動了我們異常強勁的第四季度業績。展望未來，我們充滿活力，將 2021 年建立的勢頭延續到 2022 年。

To provide some pricing perspective, the average selling price of many refrigerants increased sequentially from the third quarter to the fourth quarter. We had not expected fourth quarter pricing to increase, but rather remain stable as it has traditionally done.

從定價角度來看，許多製冷劑的平均售價從第三季度到第四季度連續上漲。我們沒有預料到第四季度定價會上漲，而是像傳統上那樣保持穩定。

Instead, pricing for certain refrigerants steadily trended upward throughout 2021. As we enter the 2022 season, we believe this pricing behavior will continue, particularly as the AIM Act phasedown of HFCs begins. Assuming this pricing trend continues for the 2022 selling season, we could see revenues exceeding $270 million in 2022.

相反，某些製冷劑的價格在整個 2021 年穩步上升。隨著我們進入 2022 年季節，我們相信這種定價行為將繼續，特別是隨著 AIM 法案開始逐步減少 HFC。假設這種定價趨勢在 2022 年銷售季繼續，我們可能會看到 2022 年的收入超過 2.7 億美元。

If we look to Europe as guidance for pricing relative to the initial steps taken under HFC phasedown there, we could expect to see a doubling in price for HFC refrigerants from the 2021 levels in the next few years.

如果我們將歐洲視為相對於在那裡逐步減少 HFC 所採取的初始步驟的定價指南，我們預計未來幾年 HFC 製冷劑的價格將比 2021 年的水平翻一番。

While we can't be certain pricing will reach those levels or the timing of any such increase, but over time, if we reach those levels, we could see our revenues reach $350 million with an operating income of over $70 million.

雖然我們不能確定定價會達到這些水平或任何此類增長的時間，但隨著時間的推移，如果我們達到這些水平，我們可以看到我們的收入達到 3.5 億美元，營業收入超過 7000 萬美元。

Moreover, such a pricing dynamic should be a stimulus for growth and reclamation, which has not been factored in into this basic analysis. As we move through 2022 and beyond, we expect to see gross margin performance at the low 30% level as we expect to acquire HFC refrigerant inventory at higher price points than reflected in the 2021 full year.

此外，這種定價動態應該會刺激增長和開墾，而這一點並未納入此基本分析。隨著 2022 年及以後的發展，我們預計毛利率將處於 30% 的低水平，因為我們預計將以高於 2021 年全年反映的價格收購 HFC 製冷劑庫存。

As reclaim volumes increase, we could begin to see gross margin improvement greater than the expected low 30% levels because we acquired gas for reclamation at lower cost as compared to virgin purchases. That said, we wouldn't expect to see a reclamation benefit to gross margin until the 2023 season.

隨著回收量的增加，我們可能會開始看到毛利率提高超過預期的 30% 的低水平，因為與原始採購相比，我們以更低的成本獲得用於回收的天然氣。也就是說，我們預計在 2023 年之前不會看到開墾對毛利率的好處。

In a favorable development, last week, we announced that we have completed the refinancing of our debt. Nat will go into more details on this. But in short, we've entered into a new $85 million term loan and increased our ABL facility to a total of $90 million. This new debt structure will meaningfully improve our cost of capital and interest expense with an approximate 3% reduction in the overall effective interest rate.

在一個有利的發展中，上週，我們宣布我們已經完成了債務再融資。 Nat 將對此進行更詳細的介紹。但簡而言之，我們已經簽訂了一項新的 8500 萬美元定期貸款，並將我們的 ABL 貸款總額增加到 9000 萬美元。這種新的債務結構將顯著改善我們的資本成本和利息支出，使整體實際利率降低約 3%。

Refinancing our debt and securing ample availability for the future is a key development for Hudson, reflecting our strong operating model and improving performance. With our visibility today, we believe 2022 will be a year of tremendous opportunity for Hudson related to our strong market positioning, particularly as the industry begins to comply with the AIM Act as well as other legislative initiatives.

為我們的債務再融資和確保未來充足的可用性是哈德森的一項關鍵發展，反映了我們強大的運營模式和改進的性能。憑藉我們今天的知名度，我們相信 2022 年將是哈德森與我們強大的市場定位相關的巨大機遇的一年，尤其是在該行業開始遵守 AIM 法案以及其他立法舉措的情況下。

To recap, the AIM Act has introduced a mandate 10% step-down in the production and consumption allowances for virgin HFCs in 2022 from the original baseline. The AIM Act requires further phasedowns of virgin HFC production over the next 15 years with a cumulative 40% reduction in the baseline scheduled to take place in less than 2 years.

回顧一下，AIM 法案已強制要求在 2022 年將原始 HFC 的生產和消費配額從最初的基準降低 10%。 AIM 法案要求在未來 15 年內進一步逐步減少原始 HFC 的生產，計劃在不到 2 年的時間內將基準線累計減少 40%。

Reclamation will be critical to maintaining necessary HFC supply levels to ensure an orderly phasedown. As a leading reclaimer, we believe this will enable Hudson to act as an HFC supplier while also supporting the transition away from the production of virgin HFCs.

回收對於維持必要的 HFC 供應水平以確保有序逐步減少至關重要。作為領先的回收商，我們相信這將使 Hudson 能夠充當 HFC 供應商，同時也支持從生產原始 HFC 的過渡。

We have the ability to process and reclaim all refrigerant gases, including CFCs, HCFCs, HFCs and HFOs. So our reclamation capabilities provide a long-term market opportunity. In the near term, the installed base of HFC equipment continues to expand, and as virgin supply tightens, we expect the demand for HFCs will drive accelerated reclamation activity to fill the anticipated supply gap.

我們有能力處理和回收所有製冷劑氣體，包括 CFC、HCFC、HFC 和 HFO。因此，我們的回收能力提供了一個長期的市場機會。短期內，HFC 設備的安裝基數繼續擴大，隨著原始供應趨緊，我們預計對 HFC 的需求將推動加速回收活動，以填補預期的供應缺口。

With our industry-leading reclamation capabilities, long-standing customer relationships and efficient distribution network, we are well positioned to enable the efficient transition to greener refrigerants.

憑藉我們行業領先的回收能力、長期的客戶關係和高效的分銷網絡，我們有能力實現向更環保製冷劑的高效過渡。

We've also previously mentioned CARB or California Air Resources Board initiatives. Currently, CARB has proposed a requirement that OEMs use a minimum 10% reclaimed refrigerant in the factory charged equipment, and we've been actively pursuing opportunities to assist OEMs in meeting this requirement.

我們之前還提到了 CARB 或加州空氣資源委員會的倡議。目前，CARB 提出了一項要求，即原始設備製造商在工廠充注設備中使用至少 10% 的回收製冷劑，我們一直在積極尋找機會協助原始設備製造商滿足這一要求。

To that end, in January, we were excited to announce that Hudson will supply reclaimed refrigerant to AprilAire for use in their healthy air solutions for homes. We are thrilled to work with AprilAire as they take an early adopter approach to incorporating reclaimed refrigerant into their products.

為此，我們在 1 月份很高興地宣布，哈德遜將向 AprilAire 供應回收製冷劑，用於他們的家庭健康空氣解決方案。我們很高興與 AprilAire 合作，因為他們採用早期採用者的方法將回收製冷劑納入其產品。

Hudson was founded on a commitment to sustainability and in conjunction with AprilAire our focus on recovering, reclaiming and reusing refrigerants can reduce waste and greenhouse gas emissions and create maximum economic value for used refrigerants.

Hudson 建立在對可持續發展的承諾之上，並與 AprilAire 一起，我們專注於回收、回收和再利用製冷劑，可以減少廢物和溫室氣體排放，並為使用過的製冷劑創造最大的經濟價值。

Hudson represents approximately 35% of refrigerant reclamation activity in the U.S., which positions us to not only support the phasedown of HFC refrigerants, but also as a key source in the circular economy of refrigerants. We are energized by the opportunities we're seeing to grow our business and to provide our services to better benefit the environment.

哈德森約占美國製冷劑回收活動的 35%，這使我們不僅支持逐步減少 HFC 製冷劑，而且還是製冷劑循環經濟的重要來源。我們看到發展業務和提供服務以更好地造福環境的機會，這讓我們充滿活力。

Now I'll turn the call over to Nat to review the financials. Go ahead, Nat.

現在我會把電話轉給 Nat 來審查財務狀況。去吧，納特。

Thank you, Brian. For the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2021, Hudson recorded revenues of $37.8 million, an increase of 71% compared to $22.1 million in the comparable 2020 period. The growth is related to increased selling prices for certain refrigerants during the quarter.

謝謝你，布萊恩。截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日的第四季度，Hudson 的收入為 3780 萬美元，與 2020 年同期的 2210 萬美元相比增長了 71%。這一增長與本季度某些製冷劑的銷售價格上漲有關。

Gross margin was 45% for the fourth quarter of 2021 compared to 25% in the fourth quarter of 2020. The improved gross margin is primarily attributable to higher selling prices in the quarter, which in the context of our FIFO approach to inventory favorably impacted our gross margin performance. As we move through 2022, we expect gross margin performance for the full year to be in the lower end of the 30% level.

2021 年第四季度的毛利率為 45%，而 2020 年第四季度為 25%。毛利率的提高主要是由於本季度銷售價格上漲，在我們採用 FIFO 庫存方法的背景下，這對我們的庫存產生了有利影響毛利率表現。隨著我們邁向 2022 年，我們預計全年的毛利率表現將處於 30% 水平的下限。

SG&A for the fourth quarter of 2021 was $7 million or 18.4% of revenue as compared to $6.5 million or 29.2% of revenue in the fourth quarter of 2020. The slightly higher SG&A cost was driven by higher payroll costs and professional fees.

2021 年第四季度的 SG&A 為 700 萬美元，佔收入的 18.4%，而 2020 年第四季度為 650 萬美元，佔收入的 29.2%。SG&A 成本略高的原因是工資成本和專業費用增加。

We recorded operating income of $9.3 million in the fourth quarter of 2021 compared to an operating loss of $1.7 million in the fourth quarter of 2020. The company recorded net income of $6.2 million or $0.14 per basic and $0.13 per diluted share in the fourth quarter of 2021 compared to net loss of $4.7 million or a loss of $0.11 per basic and diluted share in the same period of 2020.

我們在 2021 年第四季度的營業收入為 930 萬美元，而 2020 年第四季度的營業虧損為 170 萬美元。公司在 2020 年第四季度的淨收入為 620 萬美元，即基本每股收益 0.14 美元和稀釋後每股收益 0.13 美元與 2021 年淨虧損 470 萬美元或 2020 年同期基本股和稀釋後每股虧損 0.11 美元相比。

Looking at full year 2021, Hudson reported revenues of $192.7 million, an increase of 31% compared to revenues of $147.6 million in 2020. Gross margin for 2021 was 37% compared to 24% for the full year 2020. The company recorded net income of $32.3 million or $0.74 per basic and $0.69 per diluted share for full year 2021 compared to a net loss of $5.2 million or a loss of $0.12 per basic and diluted share in full year 2020.

展望 2021 年全年，Hudson 報告的收入為 1.927 億美元，與 2020 年的 1.476 億美元相比增長了 31%。2021 年的毛利率為 37%，而 2020 年全年為 24%。該公司的淨收入為2021 年全年淨虧損 3230 萬美元或每股基本股 0.74 美元，稀釋後每股虧損 0.69 美元，而 2020 年全年淨虧損 520 萬美元或每股基本股和稀釋後每股虧損 0.12 美元。

The company's leverage ratio was 1.93:1 for the trailing 12 months ended December 31, 2021, declining significantly from a leverage ratio of 5.84:1 for the trailing 12 months ended December 31, 2020, mainly as a result of the improved financial performance in 2021.

公司截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日止的過去 12 個月的槓桿率為 1.93:1，較截至 2020 年 12 月 31 日止的過去 12 個月的槓桿率為 5.84:1 大幅下降，主要是由於財務業績改善2021.

Subsequent to the close of the fourth quarter, the company announced it has entered into a new $85 million term loan agreement with TCW Asset Management Company LLC, and has amended its existing revolving credit facility to increase the overall facility to $90 million, which comprises of TCW participating in a first-in last-out, or FILO term loan of $15 million and Wells Fargo continuing to manage the facility, providing up to another $75 million in borrowing capacity.

第四季度結束後，公司宣布與 TCW Asset Management Company LLC 簽訂了新的 8500 萬美元定期貸款協議，並修改了現有的循環信貸額度，將總額度增加到 9000 萬美元，其中包括： TCW 參與了 1500 萬美元的先進後出或 FILO 定期貸款，Wells Fargo 繼續管理該設施，提供高達 7500 萬美元的借貸能力。

In conjunction with entry into the new term loan facility and amended revolving credit facility, the company's pre-existing term loan was repaid in full and terminated. Increased revolver availability provides the company with better opportunities to procure inventory for the upcoming selling season.

結合新的定期貸款安排和修改後的循環信貸安排，公司先前存在的定期貸款已全額償還並終止。左輪手槍可用性的增加為公司提供了更好的機會來為即將到來的銷售季節採購庫存。

Future cash flow opportunities, such as the potential for increased pricing that Brian mentioned, enables the company to pay down its debt at an accelerated rate, as has always been our philosophy.

未來的現金流機會，例如 Brian 提到的提高定價的潛力，使公司能夠以更快的速度償還債務，這一直是我們的理念。

At closing, our excess availability under our credit facility was approximately $54 million. We have strong liquidity, and our term loan and revolving loan credit facilities and partners provide us with a solid financial platform and flexibility as we look forward. I will now turn the call back over to Brian. Brian?

收盤時，我們的信貸額度下的超額可用性約為 5400 萬美元。我們擁有強大的流動性，我們的定期貸款和循環貸款信貸額度和合作夥伴為我們提供了堅實的財務平台和我們期待的靈活性。我現在將把電話轉回給布賴恩。布萊恩？

Thanks, Nat. As we enter the 2022 selling season, we're excited about the opportunities ahead and focused on growing our leadership position in the refrigerant and reclamation industry. Operator, we'll now open the call to questions.

謝謝，奈特。隨著我們進入 2022 年銷售季，我們對未來的機遇感到興奮，並專注於提升我們在製冷劑和回收行業的領導地位。接線員，我們現在開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) First question is coming from Gerry Sweeney with Roth Capital.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自 Roth Capital 的 Gerry Sweeney。

A couple of questions for you. Just curious how the HFC recovery in the market is going. Do you have any sort of planned strategies maybe to maximize this opportunity? In the past, sometimes it's been a little bit of a challenge. Just curious how you're going to look at the market on a go-forward opportunity?

問你幾個問題。只是好奇市場上的 HFC 恢復情況如何。您是否有任何計劃的策略來最大化這個機會？在過去，有時這有點挑戰。只是好奇您將如何看待未來的市場機會？

So I'd say, yes, in the past, the overall reclamation volumes were less than we expected. We certainly expected more compliance to the law. We also expected that some amount of economics would help drive the change behavior. With regards to this particular phasedown, the HFC phasedown, there's a lot of differences that we might have seen in the past.

所以我會說，是的，在過去，整體填海量低於我們的預期。我們當然期望更多人遵守法律。我們還預計一定數量的經濟學將有助於推動改變行為。關於這個特定的逐步減少，HFC 逐步減少，我們過去可能已經看到了很多差異。

First off, environmental organizations are seeking ways to help improve reclamation. They see it as an opportunity to the extent that reclaim can grow faster than expected then the virgin production phasedown could maybe accelerate as well. So there's that side of the equation.

首先，環保組織正在尋找幫助改善回收的方法。他們認為這是一個機會，因為開墾的增長速度可以快於預期，然後原始生產的逐步減少也可能會加速。所以有等式的那一邊。

Certainly, now that we have a requirement in the State of California and uncertain what the federal level might do, but a requirement for OEMs to use a small percentage of reclaim in their factory charge, that should incentify OEMs to help participate in the growth of reclamation so that there's adequate supply to meet their compliance needs.

當然，既然我們在加利福尼亞州有一項要求並且不確定聯邦層面可能會做什麼，但要求 OEM 在其工廠費用中使用一小部分回收，這應該會激勵 OEM 幫助參與增長填海，以便有足夠的供應來滿足他們的合規需求。

The other thing that we feel strongly about relative to this opportunity is even at the producer level, at some level, when we get to the far end of the phasedown we'll see a limit on HFC virgin production. But some of that HFC production is likely going to be needed to help grow HFOs. So if there is inadequate virgin HFCs at that time, reclamation certainly could help in that process as well.

與此機會相關的另一件事是，即使在生產商層面，在某種程度上，當我們到達逐步減少的盡頭時，我們也會看到 HFC 原始生產的限制。但可能需要部分 HFC 產量來幫助增加 HFO。因此，如果當時原始氫氟碳化合物不足，那麼回收肯定也有助於該過程。

So there's a lot of different factors in this particular phaseout as compared to the prior phaseout. So we are looking forward to an opportunity to see significant growth and reclamation and not necessarily driven by regulation but really driven by business, the participants in this industry across the board, including reclaimers.

因此，與之前的淘汰相比，在這個特定的淘汰中有很多不同的因素。因此，我們期待有機會看到顯著的增長和開墾，不一定是由監管驅動，而是真正由業務驅動，包括回收商在內的整個行業的參與者。

There's more stakeholders, it's what it sounds like from everyone from the local HVAC company all the way to the producers. Is that a fair way of looking at it?

有更多的利益相關者，從當地的暖通空調公司到生產商，每個人都這麼認為。這是一種公平的看待方式嗎？

Yes. We'd say just about anybody in the chain would want to see growth and reclamation, and we expect in some level they're going to participate in that. And then the other thing, if you think about it, right now, you could argue HFCs are a very large percentage of the overall installed base here in the United States, is it in the 80%, 85% range probably something in that kind of range and that means that 80% or 85% of the installed base is going to have to change out of HFCs over, let's say, the next 10, 15, 20 years. And that's a tremendous opportunity for recovery and reuse as we work our way through this overall change to more environmentally friendly refrigerants.

是的。我們會說鏈中的任何人都希望看到增長和開墾，我們預計他們會在某種程度上參與其中。然後另一件事，如果你考慮一下，現在，你可能會爭辯說氫氟碳化合物在美國這裡的總裝機量中所佔的比例非常大，是在 80%、85% 的範圍內嗎？的範圍，這意味著 80% 或 85% 的已安裝基礎將不得不在未來 10、15、20 年內更換 HFC。這是一個巨大的回收和再利用機會，因為我們正在努力實現對更環保製冷劑的全面改變。

Got it. Are there, changing gears a little bit just to the HFC pricing, obviously, there's moving parts with AIM Act, but there's also been supply chain issues. Do you know if any of the pricing increases or pricing pressure was a result of supply chain or any insight into that? Or is it just driven purely by the AIM Act?

知道了。在那裡，只是對 HFC 定價稍微改變一下齒輪，顯然，AIM 法案有移動部件，但也存在供應鏈問題。您是否知道任何價格上漲或價格壓力是否是供應鍊或對此的任何洞察力的結果？或者它純粹是由 AIM 法案驅動的？

It's probably both. Certainly, supply chain issues existed throughout last year, whether it be raw material costs or just transportation costs, delays in transportation, and they're likely going to continue, at least for the foreseeable future, let's say, the first half of this year, possibly, there might be improvement towards the back half. But also as it relates to now the overall reduction in availability relative to demand, we're starting to see price increases just from a supply-demand imbalance.

可能兩者兼而有之。當然，去年整個供應鏈問題都存在，無論是原材料成本還是運輸成本，運輸延誤，而且它們可能會繼續存在，至少在可預見的未來，比方說，今年上半年，可能，後半部分可能會有改善。但也因為它與現在相對於需求的可用性整體下降有關，我們開始看到價格上漲僅僅是因為供需失衡。

And then a final question for me, and I'll jump back in line. Curious, several years ago, you -- there was a little bit of a pre-buy opportunity for some refrigerants. And then the market shifted a little bit more towards a little just-in-time inventory. Are you seeing any shift in buying patterns this year for refrigerants?

然後是最後一個問題，我會重新排隊。好奇，幾年前，你 - 一些製冷劑有一點預購機會。然後市場稍微轉向一點及時庫存。您是否看到今年製冷劑的購買模式有任何變化？

Not necessarily, but I do think there might be a hybrid this year as folks may be more concerned about availability and as a result, may look to stock a little bit more product earlier than later. At the end of the day, I wouldn't necessarily expect to go back to the old days like the pre-2017 period where there was a tremendous stocking that would have occurred in Q1. It's probably going to be a little bit more than we saw last year, but I don't think we're ever going to go back to the old days.

不一定，但我確實認為今年可能會出現混合模式，因為人們可能更關心可用性，因此可能會希望早點庫存更多的產品。歸根結底，我不一定希望回到像 2017 年之前那樣的舊時代，那裡會在第一季度出現大量庫存。它可能會比我們去年看到的多一點，但我認為我們永遠不會回到過去。

(Operator Instructions) The next question is coming from Ryan Sigdahl from Craig-Hallum Capital Group.

（操作員說明）下一個問題來自 Craig-Hallum Capital Group 的 Ryan Sigdahl。

Curious on the $270 million revenue that you mentioned for 2022. Curious, 2 questions on that. One, what is the current price assumption we're using for R-22 and R-410A. And then secondly, are you assuming volume is at least directionally flat, up, down from 2021?

對您提到的 2022 年 2.7 億美元的收入感到好奇。好奇，有 2 個問題。第一，我們對 R-22 和 R-410A 使用的當前價格假設是多少。其次，您是否假設成交量至少與 2021 年持平、上升或下降？

Yes. So when it comes to some of the target that we've talked about, we're assuming volume is flat. We're also assuming no material change with regards to supply side, meaning reclaim versus virgin because those circumstances would only make the results better than what we've reflected thus far or talked about thus far.

是的。因此，當談到我們談到的一些目標時，我們假設交易量持平。我們還假設供應方面沒有實質性變化，這意味著回收與處女，因為這些情況只會使結果比我們迄今為止反映或討論的結果更好。

So as it relates to pricing, R-22 pricing is definitely at the $30 level now and seems to be fairly constant at that level and maybe slightly higher. It is possible it could go higher, but we typically had folks think about the $30 level because that's the kind of sustainable level we saw with CFCs. With regards to HFCs, you're now seeing pricing above $10 a pound, probably $10 to $12 a pound, depending on the refrigerant, of course, but certainly a significant jump that occurred throughout the 2021 year.

因此，就定價而言，R-22 的定價現在肯定處於 30 美元的水平，而且似乎在該水平上相當穩定，甚至可能略高。它可能會更高，但我們通常讓人們考慮 30 美元的水平，因為這是我們在氟氯化碳中看到的那種可持續水平。關於氫氟碳化合物，你現在看到價格超過每磅 10 美元，可能是每磅 10 到 12 美元，當然，這取決於製冷劑，但肯定會在整個 2021 年發生顯著的上漲。

And then just -- so I caught it. I think you mentioned low 30% gross margin expectation for 2022. How do you compare that, I guess, looking at your 2024 target? I believe it implies kind of a 30%-ish gross margin, still the right assumption there on year? Can you contrast the 2?

然後 - 所以我抓住了它。我想你提到了 2022 年 30% 的低毛利率預期。我想你如何比較你的 2024 年目標？我相信這意味著大約 30% 左右的毛利率，這仍然是去年的正確假設嗎？你能對比一下2嗎？

Yes. What we're trying to suggest right now is we certainly did better on a gross margin basis relative to more FIFO inventory than a sustainable level. We think that low 30% is the sustainable level. But we also think we could do better than that now to the extent that we see growth in reclaim volume, and that probably will start to happen in somewhat the later years.

是的。我們現在試圖建議的是，相對於可持續水平的更多 FIFO 庫存，我們在毛利率基礎上確實做得更好。我們認為低30%是可持續的水平。但我們也認為，就我們看到回收量的增長而言，我們現在可以做得更好，而且這可能會在晚些時候開始發生。

So we are expecting growth in HFC reclaim in 2022. But because the used gas return comes in on the back half of the year typically relative to the season, you're usually going to see that growth go into inventory in 2022 and -- see the margin improvement until 2023 when you sell out that reclaimed gas. So as we continue to update activities, we'll be updating on what's happening with reclamation opportunities.

因此，我們預計 2022 年 HFC 回收量將增長。但是由於用過的氣體回收通常在下半年出現，通常與季節相關，你通常會看到增長在 2022 年進入庫存，並且 - 見到 2023 年，當你賣掉回收的天然氣時，利潤率就會提高。因此，隨著我們繼續更新活動，我們將更新回收機會的最新情況。

And to the extent we're pursuing more relationships like AprilAire and organizations that are looking to find ways to grow reclamation. We're excited about that opportunity because the margins typically on reclaimed gas that we acquire are higher than the virgin supply side.

在某種程度上，我們正在尋求更多的關係，比如 AprilAire 和正在尋找增加填海方法的組織。我們對這個機會感到興奮，因為我們獲得的回收天然氣的利潤率通常高於原始供應方。

Then just on OpEx, how should we think about -- historically, it's been fixed good or bad and conditions? How should we think about that going forward with kind of the HFC phaseout and the current supply chain issues we have?

那麼就 OpEx 而言，我們應該如何考慮——從歷史上看，它是固定的好壞和條件？我們應該如何考慮 HFC 逐步淘汰和我們當前的供應鏈問題？

Yes. I would say it's pretty flat. We probably maintain the same type of SG&A that we've historically done.

是的。我會說它很平坦。我們可能會保持與以往相同類型的 SG&A。

One more just on the debt refinance. Can you talk through kind of the lenders you were considering in the process and I guess, how you decided on TCW Asset Management? I know you had quite a few issues with the previous lender. So curious how this one went around.

還有一個是關於債務再融資的。你能談談你在這個過程中考慮的貸方類型嗎？我猜你是如何決定 TCW 資產管理的？我知道您與之前的貸方有很多問題。很好奇這個是怎麼來的。

Sure. So we tasked a fairly broad net out into the marketplace with lenders that would look somewhat similar to TCW. At the end of the day, we spent time with a small group and then really, it's just the relationship with TCW personnel, the types of questions they were asking, the way they wanted to get into the business and understand it better, made them a leader in the overall process.

當然。因此，我們將相當廣泛的網絡與看起來與 TCW 有點相似的貸方一起進入市場。在一天結束時，我們與一小群人共度時光，然後真的，這只是與 TCW 人員的關係，他們提出的問題類型，他們想要進入業務並更好地理解它的方式，讓他們整個過程中的領導者。

The nice thing about working with them is the folks that we spent all this time over many months, many different due diligence questions and reviews are the same team that's going to continue with this investment. So a lot of times, you'll work with lenders where you have new business folks and they hand it over to another group to maintain the relationship. But in this case, it's the same folks for both pieces of the puzzle. So we're really happy with the relationship. They have, I think, a very strong reputation in the industry. So we're looking forward to a very long relationship with them.

與他們一起工作的好處是我們花了幾個月的時間，許多不同的盡職調查問題和評論都是將繼續這項投資的同一個團隊。所以很多時候，你會與有新業務人員的貸方合作，他們將其移交給另一個團隊以維持關係。但在這種情況下，拼圖的兩部分都是同一個人。所以我們對這段關係真的很滿意。我認為，他們在業界享有很高的聲譽。所以我們期待與他們建立長期的合作關係。

This concludes today's Q&A portion of the call. I'd like to turn the call back to management for closing remarks.

今天電話會議的問答部分到此結束。我想將電話轉回管理層以作結束語。

Well, thank you, operator. I'd like to thank our employees for their continued support and dedication to our business. I want to again thank our long-time shareholders and those that have recently joined us for their support. Thank you, everyone, for participating in today's conference call, and we look forward to speaking with you after the first quarter results. Have a good night, everybody. Thank you.

嗯，謝謝接線員。我要感謝我們的員工對我們業務的持續支持和奉獻。我想再次感謝我們的長期股東和最近加入我們的股東的支持。感謝大家參加今天的電話會議，我們期待在第一季度業績後與您交談。大家晚上好謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝你們，女士們，先生們。這確實結束了今天的電話會議。此時您可以斷開電話線，度過美好的一天。感謝您的參與。