Harvard Bioscience Inc (HBIO) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the first quarter 2025 Harvard Bioscience Inc earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Kathryn Flynn, the Corporate Controller. Please go ahead.

大家好，歡迎參加哈佛生物科學公司 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件正在被記錄。現在我想將會議交給公司財務總監凱瑟琳·弗林 (Kathryn Flynn)。請繼續。

Thank you, [Betsy], and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining the Harvard Bioscience first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Leading the call today will be Jim Green, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Mark Frost, the incoming Interim Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，[貝琪]，大家早安。感謝您參加哈佛生物科學 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。今天的電話會議主持人將是總裁兼執行長吉姆·格林 (Jim Green) 和即將上任的臨時財務長馬克·弗羅斯特 (Mark Frost)。

In conjunction with today's recorded call, we have provided a presentation that will be referenced during our remarks that is posted to the investors section of our website at investor.harvardbioscience.com.

結合今天的錄音電話會議，我們提供了一份演示文稿，該演示文稿將在我們的發言中引用，並發佈到我們網站 investor.harvardbioscience.com 的投資者部分。

Please note that statements made in today's discussion that are not historical facts, including statements or expectations or future events or future financial performance are forward-looking statements and are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1,995.

請注意，今天討論中所作的非歷史事實的陳述，包括陳述或預期或未來事件或未來財務表現均為前瞻性陳述，並且是根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法》的安全港條款作出的。

Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied. Please refer to today's press release for other disclosures on forward-looking statements. These factors and other risks and uncertainties are described in the company's filings with the Security and Exchange Commission.

實際結果可能與明示或暗示的結果有重大差異。有關前瞻性陳述的其他揭露，請參閱今天的新聞稿。這些因素以及其他風險和不確定性均在公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中進行了描述。

Harvard Bioscience assumes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements publicly, and management statements are made as of today. During the call, management will also reference certain non-GAAP financial measures which can be useful in evaluating the company's operations related to our financial condition and results.

哈佛生物科學公司不承擔公開更新或修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務，管理階層聲明均截至今日為止。在電話會議中，管理階層也會參考某些非公認會計準則財務指標，這些指標有助於評估與我們的財務狀況和績效相關的公司營運狀況。

These non-GAAP measures are intended to supplement GAAP financial information and should not be considered a substitute. Reconciliations of GAAP to non-GAAP measures are provided in today's earnings press release. I will now turn the call over to Mark. Mark, please go ahead.

這些非 GAAP 指標旨在補充 GAAP 財務訊息，不應被視為替代品。今天的收益新聞稿中提供了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 指標的對帳表。現在我將電話轉給馬克。馬克，請繼續。

Thank you, Kathryn.Good morning, everyone. I'm Mark Frost, the Interim CFO for Harvard Bioscience, effective tomorrow. With us is Jennifer Cote, the current CFO for Harvard Bioscience. We'd like to thank Jen for her support of the company the last three years and her willingness to spend the last month helping me in the transition.

謝謝你，凱瑟琳。大家早安。我是馬克‧弗羅斯特 (Mark Frost)，哈佛生物科學臨時財務官，明天生效。與我們一起的是哈佛生物科學公司現任財務長珍妮佛‧科特 (Jennifer Cote)。我們要感謝 Jen 過去三年對公司的支持，以及她願意在過去一個月裡幫助我完成過渡。

Now for those of you who are not familiar with my background, I spent the first half of my career at General Electric in a wide variety of businesses including G Capital and healthcare. After GE, I transitioned to the healthcare space and have been a public CFO at four companies, including when I worked with Jim at Analogic.

對於那些不熟悉我的背景的人來說，我的職業生涯的前半段是在通用電氣度過的，涉及了各種各樣的業務，包括 G Capital 和醫療保健。離開通用電氣之後，我轉向醫療保健領域，並在四家公司擔任公共財務官，其中包括在 Analogic 與 Jim 共事的時候。

I'm excited to be here and look forward to working with the team at Harvard Bioscience. I'll now move to our first quarter, 2005 results on slide 3. Now revenue at $21.8 was below $24.5 million in the prior year. This result was aligned with the higher end of our guidance communicated in March for Q1.

我很高興來到這裡並期待與哈佛生物科學團隊合作。現在我將轉到投影片 3 上的 2005 年第一季業績。目前收入為 2,180 萬美元，低於前一年的 2,450 萬美元。此結果與我們 3 月公佈的第一季業績指引的上限一致。

I'll go through color on the revenue in the next slide. Gross margin was 56% versus 60.3% in 2024, and I will provide detail later as well. Now excluding a non-cash goodwill impairment charge, which I'll discuss in a moment.

我將在下一張投影片中詳細闡述收入。毛利率為 56%，而 2024 年為 60.3%，稍後我也會提供詳細資訊。現在排除非現金商譽減損費用，我稍後會討論。

Operating expense declined $3.2 million from prior year driven by the operating actions we took in 2024, as well as further actions in the first quarter. The operating loss of $49.7 million versus $2.3 million loss in quarter Q1'24 was caused primarily by the goodwill impairment charge.

由於我們在 2024 年採取的營運行動以及第一季的進一步行動，營運費用較前一年下降了 320 萬美元。2024 年第一季的營業虧損為 4,970 萬美元，而上一季的營業虧損為 230 萬美元，這主要是由於商譽減損費用造成的。

And without the goodwill charge, our adjusted operating income was $0.3 million below prior years, $1.2 million, reflective of the cost actions we executed to offset anticipated lower revenue. Quarter 1 adjusted EBITDA was $0.8 million versus $1.6 million in quarter 1'24, with a major driver being lower revenue partially offset by our cost actions.

不計商譽費用，我們的調整後營業收入比上年低 30 萬美元，即 120 萬美元，這反映了我們為抵消預期收入下降而採取的成本行動。第一季調整後的 EBITDA 為 80 萬美元，而 24 年第一季為 160 萬美元，主要原因是營收下降，但部分被我們的成本行動所抵銷。

Now turning now to the goodwill impairment, we had noted indicators of a possible impairment as we exited 2024. Due primarily to the decrease in our market capitalization at quarter one, we performed additional impairment testing as we exited the quarter.

現在談談商譽減損，我們在 2024 年結束時注意到了可能出現減損的跡象。主要是由於第一季我們的市值下降，我們在本季結束時進行了額外的減損測試。

As a result, our quarter one results include a non-cash goodwill impairment charge of $48 million. Which is reflected in operating expenses. More detail is provided in the 10-Q. Now move next to slide 4 and revenue results for the quarter by product, family, and region.

因此，我們的第一季業績包括 4,800 萬美元的非現金商譽減損費用。這反映在營業費用。10-Q 中提供了更多詳細資訊。現在轉到投影片 4，查看按產品、系列和地區劃分的本季收入結果。

So overall news in the first quarter showed an expected seasonal decline from quarter four, finishing at $21.8 million compared to $24.6 million in the prior quarter four. Year over year revenue was down from $24.5 million last year, quarter one. Now let's now break it down to look at regional results.

因此，第一季的整體消息顯示，與第四季相比，第一季的營收出現了預期的季節性下降，最終為 2,180 萬美元，而上一季為 2,460 萬美元。與去年第一季的 2,450 萬美元相比，年收入有所下降。現在讓我們分解一下來看看區域結果。

So, starting with the Americas, revenue in the first quarter declined sequentially by 5.4% from quarter four and we're down 9.4% versus revenues in the first quarter of last year. As shown in the light blue, CMT did not see the typical quarter four seasonal bump and continued to stay slow in quarter one, which we attribute to the lack of budget clarity for academics and NIH funding.

因此，從美洲開始，第一季的營收與第四季相比下降了 5.4%，與去年第一季相比下降了 9.4%。如淺藍色所示，CMT 並未出現典型的第四季度季節性增長，並在第一季繼續保持緩慢增長，我們將其歸因於學術界和 NIH 資金缺乏預算透明度。

Our preclinical sales declined sequentially mid-single digits driven by lower CRO sales. Now moving on to Europe, overall revenue in Europe in the first quarter declined 29% sequentially, as we exited 2024 with a strong seasonal end of year bombing. Now, compared to last year Q1, Europe revenues were down 9%.

由於 CRO 銷售額下降，我們的臨床前銷售額連續下降中個位數。現在轉向歐洲，由於我們在 2024 年底遭遇了強勁的季節性轟炸，歐洲第一季的整體營收季減 29%。現在，與去年第一季相比，歐洲收入下降了 9%。

Cellular and molecular sales decline sequentially and year on year, but we continue to see growth in cell-based testing are excited to see the impact of early adopters of our new MEA systems. Now our pre-clinical sales were down sequentially in quarter one, following the quarter four bump with lower CRO and academic sales but stayed relatively consistent with the middle quarters of 2024.

細胞和分子銷售額逐年下降，但我們繼續看到基於細胞的測試的增長，很高興看到我們新 MEA 系統的早期採用者的影響。現在，我們的臨床前銷售額在第一季環比下降，此前第四季度 CRO 和學術銷售額下降，但與 2024 年中期保持相對一致。

Now moving to China and the Asia Pacific, overall in the first quarter, APAC revenue was sequentially up by 6.6%. Over the previous quarter, though APAC revenue was down 17%, compared to the prior year quarter one. The APAC market has been especially difficult this past year.

現在轉向中國和亞太地區，第一季整體而言，亞太地區營收季增 6.6%。與上一季相比，亞太地區營收與去年同期相比下降了 17%。過去一年，亞太市場尤其困難。

Quarter one was our second sequential quarter of improvement, but we don't see this continuing quarter two given the immediate softening of revenue in China following the tariff announcements in early April. We have considered this in our guidance for quarter two. Now cellular molecular APAC products showed some minor declines in the third quarter sequentially, and year over year.

第一季是我們連續第二季實現改善，但考慮到 4 月初宣布關稅後中國市場收入立即下滑，我們認為改善不會持續到第二季​​。我們在第二季的指導中已經考慮到了這一點。目前，亞太地區細胞分子產品第三季較上季和年比均出現小幅下滑。

Pre-clinical APE=AC sales in quarter one saw sequential growth over sales in quarter four, but we're down compared to quarter one of the prior year, which is a strong quarter for shipments. I'll now move to slide 5 to discuss further financial metrics. Now looking at gross margin first, gross margin during quarter one, 2025 was 56% compared to 60.3% in quarter one, 2024.

第一季臨床前 APE=AC 銷售額較第四季環比成長，但與去年同期第一季相比有所下降，而去年同期是出貨量強勁的一個季度。我現在轉到投影片 5 來討論進一步的財務指標。現在先看毛利率，2025 年第一季的毛利率為 56%，而 2024 年第一季的毛利率為 60.3%。

During last year, we had a change in accounting methods that benefited our gross margins by 1.6 points. The gross margin decline compared to last year, quarter one was also impacted by lower absorption of fixed manufacturing overhead and nominally by mix.

去年，我們改變了會計方法，使我們的毛利率提高了 1.6 個百分點。與去年同期相比，第一季毛利率的下降也受到固定製造費用吸收率下降以及名目混合因素的影響。

Now if you refer to the top right graph, our adjusted EBITDA during quarter one finished at $0.8 million compared to $1.6 million in last year's first quarter. Compared to the prior year quarter one, reduced gross profit of $2.6 million was partially offset by lower operating expenses of $1.8 million.

現在，如果您參考右上角的圖表，我們第一季的調整後 EBITDA 為 80 萬美元，而去年第一季為 160 萬美元。與去年同期相比，毛利減少 260 萬美元，但被營運費用減少 180 萬美元部分抵銷。

Now moving to the bottom left where we show both reported and adjusted loss earnings per share. Now as mentioned in the past, I'll remind you of the typical differences between GAAP EPS and adjusted EPS is the impact of stock compensation, amortization, and depreciation.

現在移至左下角，我們顯示報告的和調整後的每股虧損收益。現在，正如過去所提到的，我要提醒您，GAAP EPS 和調整後 EPS 之間的典型差異是股票薪酬、攤銷和折舊的影響。

Now, as I mentioned earlier, during quarter one, we also recorded an impairment in our goodwill balance. These differences between net income loss and adjusted EBITDA are highlighted in the reconciliation tables on slide 10 and are all non-cash items.

現在，正如我之前提到的，在第一季度，我們也記錄了商譽餘額的減損。淨收入損失和調整後的 EBITDA 之間的差異在第 10 張投影片的對帳表中突出顯示，並且都是非現金項目。

Now moving to the bottom middle graph, cash flow from operations were $3 million during quarter one, 2025 compared to $1.4 million in quarter one, last year. The primary driver for the improved cash flow from operations was improvements in our work in capital management.

現在轉到中間底部的圖表，2025 年第一季的營運現金流為 300 萬美元，而去年第一季為 140 萬美元。經營活動現金流改善的主要動力是資本管理工作的改善。

Now net debt is down $1 million from quarter one, 2024 and $2.4 million from year end '24 from $33.2 million to $30.8 million. This reflects our quarterly principal payment of $1 million and improved operating cash flow. I'll now turn from our liquidity commentary to an update on our efforts to refinance our debt facility. We are making progress, and we have received indications of interest from multiple providers.

現在淨債務比 2024 年第一季減少了 100 萬美元，比 2024 年底減少了 240 萬美元，從 3,320 萬美元降至 3,080 萬美元。這反映了我們每季 100 萬美元的本金支付和改善的營運現金流。現在，我將從流動性評論轉向關於我們為債務融資所做的努力的最新進展。我們正在取得進展，並且已經收到多家供應商的興趣表示。

We are in the process of evaluating the proposals and are moving forward with the intention to close per our amendment timing. So I'll now turn it back over to Jim to discuss a new product introduction. Jim?

我們正在評估這些提案，並打算按照我們的修改時間完成。所以現在我將把話題交還給吉姆來討論新產品的介紹。吉姆？

Thank you, Mark. Good morning, everybody. Mark, it's good to be back working with you again. Let's go ahead and move to slide 6 and let me update you on progress on our key new product launches in a little more detail.

謝謝你，馬克。大家早安。馬克，很高興再次與您合作。讓我們繼續看第 6 張投影片，讓我更詳細地向您介紹我們主要新產品發布的進度。

The new product introductions are aligned into three categories. The base business, which makes up approximately 76% of total revenue, and this is from FY’24 from last year. Also, we break up, we break out and look at electroporation and bio production related systems, which is about 16% of last year's revenue, and EMEA and organoid related systems, which was about 8% of FY24 revenue.

新產品介紹分為三類。基礎業務約佔總收入的 76%，這是從去年 24 財年開始的數據。此外，我們進行細分，研究電穿孔和生物生產相關係統（約佔去年收入的 16%），以及 EMEA 和類器官相關係統（約佔 FY24 收入的 8%）。

Now the top section of the table on this slide highlights the commercial status of two new products we consider part of our base business. We've long been a leader in implantable telemetry for pre-clinical safety and tox testing.

現在，此投影片表格的頂部重點介紹了我們認為屬於基礎業務的兩種新產品的商業狀況。長期以來，我們一直是臨床前安全性和毒性測試植入式遙測的領導者。

Late in 2024, we began production shipments of our new SoHo family of implanted telemetry devices which allow animal models to live in shared housing environments. Our initial launch was focused on measuring activity and temperature. In 2025, we're expanding the SoHo platform to also now cover cardiac and neuro monitoring.

2024 年末，我們開始生產出貨新的 SoHo 系列植入式遙測設備，該設備可讓動物模型生活在共享的住房環境中。我們最初的重點是測量活動和溫度。2025 年，我們將擴展 SoHo 平台，使其涵蓋心臟和神經監測。

We launched these expanded capabilities at the society for Toxicology show in March, and we see strong pipeline of industrial customers and academics alike. We plan to begin production shipments in Q3. The second row of our base section is the VMR system.

我們在三月於毒理學會展會上推出了這些擴展功能，並且我們看到了強大的工業客戶和學術界管道。我們計劃在第三季開始生產出貨。我們基座部分的第二排是VMR系統。

The first delivery of this new system which automates it's called VivaMARS, and it automates neuro behavioral monitoring systems, and the first system went to Labcorp, one of our large customers. We've been working with Labcorp to tune the system and to support the integration into their testing network. We're now in discussions with Labor to add additional sites.

這個新系統的首次交付被稱為 VivaMARS，它可以自動化神經行為監測系統，第一個系統交付給了我們的大客戶之一 Labcorp。我們一直在與 Labcorp 合作調整系統並支援將其整合到他們的測試網路中。我們目前正在與工黨討論增加更多站點。

Now the middle section of the table highlights the commercial status of our products targeted to high growth opportunities of electroporation and bioproduction. Bioproduction applications are especially attractive because consumable usage scales with our customers' production volume.

現在，表格的中間部分重點介紹了我們針對電穿孔和生物生產的高成長機會的產品的商業狀況。生物生產應用尤其具有吸引力，因為消耗品的使用量會隨著客戶的生產量而改變。

Turning first to our BTX systems, we were pleased to see that we reached approximately $1 million in consumable revenue from our first large file production customer. Looking to 2025, this same customer is in the process of launching a second file production application in Europe.

首先談到我們的 BTX 系統，我們很高興地看到，我們從第一個大型文件製作客戶那裡獲得了約 100 萬美元的消耗品收入。展望 2025 年，同一位客戶正在歐洲推出第二個文件製作應用程式。

Finally, we're exploring a new opportunity with a large biotech to adopt our BTX for bio-production of a CAT therapy which they used in development of the therapy. As a result, our BTX, I guess I should say as a side, our BTX Agile Pulse is a leader in peer reviewed literature on Car-T applications in the research and discovery phase.

最後，我們正在與一家大型生物技術公司探索新的合作機會，採用我們的 BTX 進行 CAT 療法的生物生產，並在該療法的開發中使用。因此，我們的 BTX，我想我應該順便說一下，我們的 BTX Agile Pulse 在研究和發現階段的 Car-T 應用同行評審文獻中處於領先地位。

With respect to AAA systems, also in 2024, we began shipping our new CGMP compliant amino acid analysis system to pharma companies for bio-production applications. For 2025, we're working to expand adoption of our AAA system for bioproduction applications.

關於 AAA 系統，同樣在 2024 年，我們開始向製藥公司運送符合 CGMP 標準的新型胺基酸分析系統，用於生物生產應用。到 2025 年，我們將致力於擴大 AAA 系統在生物生產應用中的應用。

Now the bottom section of the slide highlights our exciting new mesh EMEA organoid platform. This system is the industry's first in vitro data acquisition and analysis system capable of monitoring neuro and cardiac organoids over much longer time periods measured in months, not days.

現在幻燈片的底部重點介紹了我們令人興奮的全新網狀 EMEA 類器官平台。此系統是業界首個體外資料收集和分析系統，能夠在數月而非數天內監測神經和心臟類器官。

This new system includes both instrumentation and mesh EMEA consumable chips, and it's designed to help identify new drug candidates, more likely to successfully make it through preclinical testing, which can improve yields and reduce time and reduce costs going to market.

該新系統包括儀器和網狀 EMEA 耗材晶片，旨在幫助識別新的候選藥物，更有可能成功通過臨床前測試，從而提高產量並減少上市時間並降低成本。

In 2024 we initiated beta testing and also had numerous early adopters, including sites such as Stanford and the Mayo Clinic. Now recent policy changes in Washington are encouraging a move to new alternative methods called NAMs for improved efficiencies in new drug development, specifically mentioned is advancing the use of human derived organoids.

2024 年，我們啟動了 Beta 測試，並擁有許多早期採用者，包括史丹佛大學和梅奧診所等機構。現在，華盛頓最近的政策變化正在鼓勵採用稱為 NAM 的新替代方法，以提高新藥開發的效率，特別提到推進人類衍生類器官的使用。

This new policy is driving increased interest from industrial customers and we believe presents a great opportunity for expanded adoption of our MeshMEA organoid systems for higher volume applications in both drug discovery and in safety toxicology testing.

這項新政策正在引起工業客戶越來越多的興趣，我們相信這為擴大我們的 MeshMEA 類器官系統在藥物發現和安全毒理學測試中更大批量的應用提供了絕佳的機會。

This year we see expanding adoption to more leading academic sites plus government labs in the US, the UK, and Europe. We're focusing on potential high growth industrial applications in biopharma, and finally we see growing interest for In-vitro to in In-vivo studies targeted to safety and toxicology with CROs.

今年，我們看到其應用範圍擴大到更多領先的學術機構以及美國、英國和歐洲的政府實驗室。我們專注於生物製藥領域潛在的高成長工業應用，最終我們看到人們對與 CRO 合作進行針對安全性和毒理學的體外到體內研究的興趣日益濃厚。

Now why don't we move to slide 8, take a look at our outlook. With uncertainty around NIH and academic research funding and the China tariff situation, we now expect second quarter revenue in the range of $18 million to $20 million and we expect gross margin to be in the 55% to 57% range.

現在我們轉到第 8 張投影片，看看我們的展望。由於 NIH 和學術研究資金以及中國關稅情況的不確定性，我們現在預計第二季收入將在 1800 萬美元至 2000 萬美元之間，我們預計毛利率在 55％至 57％ 之間。

Finally, we're going to focus on expanding adoption of our new products while we continue to lower costs. As such, cost actions already implemented are expected to reduce operating expense by an additional $1 million a quarter starting in the second quarter here.

最後，我們將致力於擴大新產品的採用，同時持續降低成本。因此，已經實施的成本措施預計將從第二季開始每季額外減少 100 萬美元的營運費用。

Thank you. Now I'll turn the call back over to our operator and open for questions. Thank you.

謝謝。現在我將把電話轉回給我們的接線生並開始回答問題。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Bruce Jackson, The Benchmark Company

布魯斯傑克遜，基準公司

Hi, good morning. Can you tell us a little bit more about the impairment charge?

嗨，早安。您能否向我們詳細介紹減損費用？

Sure. This is Mark. I'll start and Jim may add in some points. So, it's a normal process of assessing your goodwill. You usually do it annually, but because of our drop, Bruce, in our market cap, we're forced to take further measures to evaluate the valuation of that goodwill, and there's a number of methodologies.

當然。這是馬克。我先開始，吉姆可能會補充一些觀點。所以，這是評估您的善意的正常過程。通常每年都會進行一次，但由於我們的市值下降，布魯斯，我們被迫採取進一步措施來評估商譽的估值，並且有多種方法。

We selected a DCF approach and one of the key aspects of doing that is you have to reconcile to your market cap and that in the end led to the $48 million charge, which is non-cash, Bruce but we needed to take that charge unfortunately, and it was recorded this quarter.

我們選擇了 DCF 方法，這樣做的一個關鍵方面是你必須與你的市值相協調，最終導致了 4800 萬美元的費用，這是非現金的，布魯斯，但不幸的是我們需要承擔這筆費用，並且它在本季度被記錄下來。

Okay, and then, if I could ask you a little bit more about the bioproduction business and the Car-T in particular. Is that something that's being considered for a domestic location or is it international?

好的，然後，我可以問您更多關於生物生產業務，特別是 Car-T 的問題嗎？這是在考慮在國內還是國際上開展？

Yeah. Hi Bruce. This is a domestic customer of ours, our BTX system and especially the agile pole system is one of the leading. It's one of the leading technologies that's used for creating a number of these new forms and new types of therapies, and Car-T is one of the leaders. And so, if you look in the peer reviewed literature, you'll see our system referenced many times throughout the industry and in academic research.

是的。你好，布魯斯。這是我們的一個國內客戶，我們的BTX系統特別是敏捷桿系統是領先的系統之一。它是用於創造許多新形式和新類型療法的領先技術之一，而 Car-T 是其中的領導者。因此，如果您查看同行評審文獻，您會發現我們的系統在整個行業和學術研究中被多次引用。

So, this particular customer is an advanced biotech. They've been working on this new technology, this new Car-T related therapy, and they were using our agile pulse to create the new therapy. So, what we've done is we're working with them to adopting the system for bioproduction of this same therapy.

所以，這位特殊的客戶是一位先進的生物技術人士。他們一直在研究這項新技術、這項新的 Car-T 相關療法，並且他們正在利用我們的敏捷脈衝來創造新的療法。因此，我們所做的就是與他們合作，採用該系統進行相同療法的生物生產。

So, again it would be a new expansion for us into, again one of these advanced drugs for here designed and manufactured here in the United States and targeted to human populations and going into. I believe at this point they are they're in various stages of the testing on humans. So again, I believe it's still in first stage, first stage clinical.

因此，這對我們來說將是一個新的擴展，再次成為我們在美國設計和製造的先進藥物之一，並針對人類群體。我相信目前他們正處於人體測試的不同階段。因此，我相信它仍處於第一階段，第一階段臨床。

Okay, and then, last question from me is on the [SNEA] product line. So we've got some cross currents here. HHS, of course, with their name, pronouncement is a positive for the space. NIH funding has been kind of unpredictable. How do you see this all netting out and what's the inbound interest on the product given this, given that environment?

好的，我的最後一個問題是關於[SNEA]產品線的。所以我們在這裡遇到了一些逆流。當然，HHS 以其名稱宣布這一消息對該領域來說是一個利好消息。NIH 的資助一直有點難以預測。您如何看待這一切的淨收益？在這種環境下，該產品的入站利息是多少？

Well, the interest on the product came in very strong, and you even saw it last year with early adopters picking up the system, starting with academic researchers and then researchers in certain biopharma companies. But academics really led the way and with really heavy emphasis on neuro neurodevelopment and then also with cardiac.

嗯，人們對該產品的興趣非常濃厚，去年甚至看到早期採用者採用該系統，首先是學術研究人員，然後是某些生物製藥公司的研究人員。但學術界確實處於領先地位，並且非常重視神經發育以及心臟發育。

So, as far as you know what we saw happening there was, there has been a slowing just in general with academic research and with NIH funded now it's certainly, the interest has gone up. In fact, we see the funnels growing for opportunities to place this technology into academic research sites, but it's taking longer to get through the cycle.

所以，據您所知，我們看到的情況是，學術研究總體上有所放緩，現在由於 NIH 的資助，人們的興趣肯定增加了。事實上，我們看到將這項技術應用到學術研究領域的機會越來越多，但完成整個週期需要更長的時間。

We met with the with the NIH a couple weeks ago at their facilities. And what we were told by them was that the budgets are there, but that there were a number of, there was quite a large reduction in force, but really targeted to the folks who are involved with purchasing. So it's kind of slowed up the purchasing process.

幾週前，我們在美國國立衛生研究院 (NIH) 的設施內與他們會面。他們告訴我們，預算是有的，但是裁減了不少人力，但真正針對的是那些參與採購的人員。因此這在某種程度上減慢了購買過程。

So in academics, the demand is certainly there and growing and growing big and we still see, I would say, if you look at our academic research revenues this quarter, it started late in Q4, but it's slowed down some but it's running consistent. So it's still moving along, and we think that's going to get better.

因此，在學術領域，需求肯定存在，而且還在不斷增長，我想說，如果你看看我們本季度的學術研究收入，你會發現它始於第四季度末，雖然有所放緩，但運行穩定。所以它仍在繼續發展，我們認為情況會變得更好。

But the other big push, as you suggested with the announcement from the government, is this push toward the use of NAMs and specifically organoids and neuro organoids in testing and development, and that's causing a lot more interest for us with the biopharma companies.

但是，正如您在政府公告中提到的那樣，另一項重大推動是推動 NAM，特別是類器官和神經類器官在測試和開發中的使用，這引起了我們和生物製藥公司的更多興趣。

Now have a lot more inbound calls with even with the CROs that are much more interested in looking at this technology and knowing that the government's expecting them to start to move to some of these newer methods. So, overall you're right, this is going to be a good long term driver for us for adoption of organoids into the development cycle.

現在，甚至 CRO 也接到了更多來電，他們對這項技術更感興趣，並且知道政府希望他們開始採用一些較新的方法。所以，總的來說你是對的，這將成為我們將類器官納入開發週期的一個很好的長期驅動力。

Okay, great, that's it for me thank you.

好的，太好了，就這樣吧，謝謝。

Thanks Bruce.

謝謝布魯斯。

Paul Knight, KeyBanc

KeyBanc 的 Paul Knight

Hi, Jim.

你好，吉姆。

Hi, Paul.

你好，保羅。

Thanks for the time today. The BTX technology, I think you've been talking about certainly getting traction. When will it ever be, do you think able to compete in the sector that MaxCyte participates in?

感謝您今天抽出時間。我認為您一直在談論的 BTX 技術肯定會獲得發展動力。您認為什麼時候才能在 MaxCyte 參與的領域中競爭？

That's a great question. We figured certainly we could get into that level, but MaxCyte tends to focus really on high volume applications, and they use a licensing structure. We felt like for us the value proposition was for us to use the razor blade method, but also to go after these early adopters.

這是一個很好的問題。我們認為我們肯定可以達到那個水平，但 MaxCyte 傾向於真正關注大容量應用程序，並且他們使用許可結構。我們覺得，對我們來說，價值主張是使用刀片方法，但也要追逐這些早期採用者。

So we don't have such a high cost of entry if we were as some of the biotechs and the pharma companies are exploring these new drugs. So we think that's a good space for us. If it made sense for us to go to a much higher volume, we certainly have to put some real work into that.

因此，如果我們像一些生技公司和製藥公司一樣探索這些新藥，我們的進入成本就不會這麼高。所以我們認為這對我們來說是一個很好的空間。如果提高產量對我們來說有意義的話，我們當然必須付出真正的努力。

But the initial real value proposition for us we felt was time to market and the ability to bridge, especially if somebody used us like in Car-T therapy, if they used us to create the drug, that now we can they can use us for the initial bioproduction and then depending on the volume needs that determines whether or not we could be the long term solution for bioproduction or not.

但我們認為，對我們來說，最初的真正價值主張是上市時間和銜接能力，特別是如果有人在 Car-T 療法中使用我們，如果他們用我們來製造藥物，那麼現在他們可以將我們用於初始生物生產，然後根據數量需求來確定我們是否可以成為生物生產的長期解決方案。

But either way it's a great place for us to start, and many of the biotechs, they really just need to know, can they produce the product in a GMP environment so that they can get through their preclinical phases and get through at least their early to late stages of human testing.

但無論如何，這對我們來說都是一個很好的起點，許多生物技術公司實際上只是需要知道，他們是否可以在 GMP 環境中生產產品，以便他們能夠完成臨床前階段，並至少完成人體測試的早期到後期階段。

Again, and then it comes down to what's the volume needs, but you've also noticed with the release of the product that's already now reaching a million dollars a year on the application that we have already up and running.

再次，然後它歸結為數量需求，但您也注意到，隨著產品的發布，我們已經啟動並運行的應用程式每年的收入已經達到一百萬美元。

That says that we can certainly get into some reasonable reasonable size of the volume and it really just depends on the number of doses and the amount of in each dose whether or not it's required to go through a transpection and the use of electroporation or electrofusion.

也就是說，我們當然可以得到合理大小的體積，而這實際上只取決於劑量數量和每劑的量，是否需要經過橫切和使用電穿孔或電融合。

And then regarding the MeshMEA product line, the announcement seems like the NIH wants to focus on it. Would you not agree that there's no way animal testing really slows down for a long time? It'll be just a co-development process. Wouldn't you agree with that?

然後關於 MeshMEA 產品線，該公告似乎表明 NIH 想要專注於它。您是否同意動物測試不可能長期真正減緩？這只是一個共同開發的過程。你不同意嗎？

Yeah, I do. I think, and if you look at where our technology is used, we're used in the later stages, the formal stages of safety and talks, and that's when you, that's when the animals are really used for verification that it's safe and effective, and that nobody believes that's going to stop.

是的，我知道。我認為，如果你看看我們的技術在哪裡使用，我們將其用於後期階段，安全和談判的正式階段，那時你，那時動物才真正用於驗證其安全性和有效性，沒有人相信這會停止。

Now, we do know with the new therapies for monoclonal antibodies and by the way, our BTX system is used by, one of the leaders there, Regeneron, in creating those monoclonal antibodies. So for us that's a positive thing. Now you could argue whether or not long term testing should be necessary on a drug that's like this, that is really primarily targeted late stage cancer.

現在，我們確實了解單株抗體的新療法，順便說一下，我們的 BTX 系統被其中的領先者之一 Regeneron 用於製造這些單株抗體。所以對我們來說這是一件好事。現在你可以爭論是否需要對這種主要針對晚期癌症的藥物進行長期測試。

So it makes sense that they may want to not have to take on the cost of long term effects of something of a drug that really is only used in palliative care in late stages. So, that we don't see as an issue, but for the vast majority of new drugs, they're going to be used on children and people chronically for years and years.

因此，他們可能不想承擔某種藥物的長期影響的費用，這種藥物實際上只用於晚期安寧療護，這是有道理的。所以，我們不認為這是一個問題，但對於絕大多數新藥來說，它們將會被兒童和成年人長期使用很多年。

You do have to do, we believe you have to do the full testing, and we just can't see any real pharma company introducing a drug that where they haven't done that level of safety and to be able to correlate that back to data for years and our systems have been used for safety and tox telemetry for many years with most of the main drugs that have come through.

你確實必須這樣做，我們相信你必須進行全面的測試，我們只是看不到任何真正的製藥公司推出一種他們沒有做過這種安全級別的藥物，並且能夠將其與多年的數據關聯起來，我們的系統多年來一直用於大多數主要藥物的安全性和毒性遙測。

We just can't see, a major pharma company saying we're now going to stop that level of testing. But we do think the move toward things like organoids might help in the use of getting the early testing so that you don't maybe have to go through large volumes of large populations of small animals to filter out in a very inefficient way and a costly way.

我們只是看不到，一家大型製藥公司說我們現在要停止這種程度的測試。但我們確實認為，向類器官之類的轉變可能有助於進行早期檢測，這樣你就不必以非常低效和昂貴的方式篩選大量的小動物。

But once you get through that phase, there's no question we believe you have to do the safety and tox testing with implant inflammatory, and that really means using our technology.

但是一旦你度過了這個階段，毫無疑問我們相信你必須對植入物發炎進行安全性和毒性測試，這實際上意味著使用我們的技術。

Mark, I just missed the first question. I think you were talking about the refinance or if you didn't, my question is, what kind of rate are you looking at somewhere around what, 12%?

馬克，我剛剛錯過了第一個問題。我想您談論的是再融資，如果不是，我的問題是，您所考慮的利率是多大程度，大約是 12% 左右？

Yeah, it's going to be higher than a commercial rate. We are still in the negotiation process to finalize that, but yeah, it will be more expensive than commercial debt to answer your question.

是的，它會高於商業利率。我們仍在談判過程中以最終確定這一點，但是是的，回答你的問題，它比商業債務更昂貴。

Okay. And what is it what kind of term is it five year out or is it payments as you go through it or what are you what what's the structure of that?

好的。它的期限是怎樣的？是五年一次還是邊還邊付？還是它的結構是怎樣的？

Yeah, we're still in the process of negotiating all that. So that kind of detail I can't really share at this point in time. We will obviously as we get closer to finalizing deals, but not at this point in time.

是的，我們仍在就所有事宜進行談判。所以目前我還不能分享這類細節。隨著我們接近完成交易，我們顯然會這麼做，但目前還不是。

I think we do, I think it's fair to say we're going to be looking at multiple years.

我認為我們確實會這麼做，公平地說，我們將關注多年。

Yeah, yes. It will be four or five years out for sure.

是的，是的。肯定還需要四、五年的時間。

Okay. Alright. Thank you.

好的。好吧。謝謝。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Jim Green, CEO, for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議交還給執行長吉姆·格林 (Jim Green) 來做最後發言。

Well, thank you everybody for joining us today. We're certainly glad to hear the news that just came out this morning about the US and hopefully reaching some kind of an agreement with China. As China for us is, it's probably somewhere around 10% of our revenue.

好吧，感謝大家今天加入我們。我們當然很高興聽到今天早上剛傳出的有關美國的消息，並希望與中國達成某種協議。對我們來說，中國市場大概占我們收入的 10% 左右。

We were coming into this thinking that we might be, we might not, we might be looking at a $2 million a quarter kind of headwind, hopefully that's not the case now. So again, this is good news for us because we were assuming that with the tariffs as they are, that it will certainly expected to be a real problem for us this year.

當我們開始思考這個問題時，可能會遇到，也可能不會，我們可能會面臨每季 200 萬美元的逆風，希望現在情況並非如此。所以，這對我們來說又是好消息，因為我們假設，按照目前的關稅，這肯定會成為我們今年面臨的一個真正的問題。

So I do think there's some good news there. But again, thank you for your time today. This ends today's presentation. I hope you'll join us again in August when we discuss the fiscal 2025 second quarter results. Thank you, and this ends the call for today. Thank you.

所以我確實認為那裡有一些好消息。但再次感謝您今天抽出時間。今天的演講到此結束。我希望您能在 8 月再次加入我們，討論 2025 財年第二季業績。謝謝，今天的通話到此結束。謝謝。

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。